Hi,

watching yesterday's news on TV I had an idea. Don't know if it's a good one, but it certainly is worth thinking about it: Why not make a pope leaderhead? I mean, the popes had great power in earlier times, the Papal State controlled large parts of present day Italy. That's quite amazing. A pope LH could probably be useful in medieval Europe scenarios.

And just to point that out, I'm not religious, I was a fan of the late John Paul II nor am I a fan of Benedict XVI. But I find the popes historically interesting.

So what do you think of my idea?

Sounds like a good idea to me. Most medieval scenarios should have a Papal States civs, and there is no LH to use for it.

I wholeheartedly third this request. :goodjob:

I think this LH was done before, check the graphic forums. And I think it is era-specific. A good UU could be the Swiss Mercenary of Dutch and maybe give to this civ another UU.

Do you mean this one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=359619#post359619)? Well, it's nice, but that's not quite what I call a 3D animated leaderhead...

So, CivArmy, if you start wondering at any time what LH to do next... ;)

With a pope we would need some Papal/Swiss Gaurds

http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/may00/swissguards.jpg

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/swiss_guard/swissguard/image/divisa_act_02.jpg

Do you mean this one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=359619#post359619)? Well, it's nice, but that's not quite what I call a 3D animated leaderhead...

So, CivArmy, if you start wondering at any time what LH to do next... ;)

No, I wasn't :)
I found the LH that I had in mind, this links is http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98743 and I think I did the confusion, it is not the Pope.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/notger.jpg

I can do John Paul II or another Pope suggested in the future, no problem ;)


@Goldflash: after I have watched the storm of JPII image on TV a had the brillant idea to do this cool unit, but I quit when I have saw the Dutch UU, it is the Swiss Guard (Mercenary). In this case we can use the Firaxis unit as Vaticanian UU and use another UU for Neaderlands.

Better Bonifax VIII, Gregorious Magnus or Innocenti III (theocracial popes). And as Swiss guard, you have already the Dutch swiss mercenaries on C3C

Good idea. I'd recommend having it look like Gregory the Great in the ancient era (he was Dark Ages really, but close enough), Innocent III in the Middle Ages, Pius IX in the Industrial Age and John Paul II in the Modern Age.

Good idea. I'd recommend having it look like Gregory the Great in the ancient era (he was Dark Ages really, but close enough), Innocent III in the Middle Ages, Pius IX in the Industrial Age and John Paul II in the Modern Age.

Why not St. Peter, then, on ancient age?

Good idea. I'd recommend having it look like Gregory the Great in the ancient era (he was Dark Ages really, but close enough), Innocent III in the Middle Ages, Pius IX in the Industrial Age and John Paul II in the Modern Age.
I like this idea.

And since the Middle Ages era begins with things like Pikemen, I think it's entirely reasonable to say the Dark Ages are included in the Ancient Times.

The basic Civ Swordsman and the Gallic Swordsman look pretty Dark Age-ish to me, and they're in the Ancient Age as well....

Good idea. I'd recommend having it look like Gregory the Great in the ancient era (he was Dark Ages really, but close enough), Innocent III in the Middle Ages, Pius IX in the Industrial Age and John Paul II in the Modern Age.

Different persons in different eras? :dubious: Does that fit Civilization's leaderhead philosophy? Well, it would be a new approach, but I'd suggest sticking at one person throughout the eras. Preferably not John Paul II but some historical pope, yet I don't know enough about papal history to say which one.

As for Firaxis' Swiss Mercenary, it looks quite much like the Swiss Guard, but shouldn't it be a bit more colourful?

UUs could be different in different scenarios. The Inquisitor would be a good one too.

Different persons in different eras? :dubious: Does that fit Civilization's leaderhead philosophy? Well, it would be a new approach, but I'd suggest sticking at one person throughout the eras.

Some of ShiroKobbure's LH's have different faces for different eras, like his Rameses/Saladin and his Peter/Lenin one. It all depends on what people want to do.

Personally, I think it would be great to have a different person as your LH for each era, like for France it would be Vercingetorix/Joan/Napoleon/deGaulle. But I also realize that that is probably unrealistic, especially when you can't change your leader's name while in-game (kinda of weird to be called Vercingetorix with a picture of Joan).

No, he doesn't make a different face for each era: he just changes the hairstyle/beards/whatever to make the leader look different, but doesnt change his face. And actually, that's normally done in most heads.


Now, on to the topic of this thread: I could consider doing a "generic" Pope leaderhead (that is, not looking particularly like anyone from the past), if I can manage to make his hat (and if I found some time, which I probably will after FDR)

... if I can manage to make his hat (and if I found some time, which I probably will after FDR)

There are different hat for each era:

Middle ages - Industrial: Triregnum

http://www.momentosera.it/fn/visita/img/triregno_1.jpg


Modern: Tiara

http://www.serracarol.com/blog/images/mitra-thumb.jpg

Different persons in different eras? :dubious: Does that fit Civilization's leaderhead philosophy? Well, it would be a new approach, but I'd suggest sticking at one person throughout the eras. Preferably not John Paul II but some historical pope, yet I don't know enough about papal history to say which one.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the general look - costume etc - rather than changing the face. Especially as we presumably don't know what Gregory I or Innocent III looked like.

If you had to choose a single person to name as the Pope leader, I would say either Gregory I (probably the most popular and well remembered Pope in history) or Innocent III (the most powerful Pope in history).

It's a shame they don't wear the Papal tiara any more (John Paul I abolished it) - what a cool hat that is!

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the general look - costume etc - rather than changing the face. Especially as we presumably don't know what Gregory I or Innocent III looked like.

If you had to choose a single person to name as the Pope leader, I would say either Gregory I (probably the most popular and well remembered Pope in history) or Innocent III (the most powerful Pope in history).

It's a shame they don't wear the Papal tiara any more (John Paul I abolished it) - what a cool hat that is!

About Tiara, it is in use. The triregnum (the 3 crown are land, sky and water which pope rules) was symbol of the Pope-king, then it was abolished in order to make pope only a spiritual leader.


About looks:

Gregory the great (with the Gregorian lyrics)

http://www.catholicculture.org/Lit/pictures/9_3_gregory_great5.jpg

Innocent III

http://www.flholocaustmuseum.org/history_wing/assets/room1/pope_innocent_iii.jpg

Sorry, by "tiara" I meant the crown. Surely the thing you labelled a tiara is a mitre?

Sorry, by "tiara" I meant the crown. Surely the thing you labelled a tiara is a mitre?

Tiara and mitre are the same :)

I'm doing a Religious Brazilian leader and maybe some of the eras could be used like a generic Pope LH. I didn't full gold stuff in all the eras cos it is not the reality of this Brazilian leader, I think a Pope LH could be in Golden Churches or Palaces, but it is not the case of this LH ;)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Nordestinos011.jpg

If someone wants to check the progress of this LH go to http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=117175 .

Haha, a Latin American Pope :) Is time really ready for this ;)

As I recall a Brazilian was mentioned as one of the front runners for pope. I'm not catholic, so I didn't pay close attention, so I may be remembering it incorrectly. But, based on the strength of the catholic faith in south and centeral america, I consider it inevitable that a pope will come from that part of the world sooner or later.

Yes, you're right. There was discussion about a Latin American / African pope, which could have been justified just for the reasons you mentioned. But it seems that the church is far too conservative for such a decision, so time obviously is not ready yet...

Yes, you're right. There was discussion about a Latin American / African pope, which could have been justified just for the reasons you mentioned. But it seems that the church is far too conservative for such a decision, so time obviously is not ready yet...

On the contrary, most of the African cardinals are extremely conservative and would have fitted the conservative elements of the church ideally (much like their Anglican counterparts). You shouldn't read too much into Ratzinger's election: the fact that a developing world Pope wasn't elected doesn't mean they have some prejudice against one, merely that they happened not to elect one. Ratzinger would always have been a more likely candidate than Hummes irrespective of where they came from.

Going back onto topic...

[Civ Army] I think it would be pretty odd to make Frei Caneca look like a Pope in any era, to be honest. However, if you wanted to do it, the Pope should generally wear white, with perhaps a red cloak, rather like the picture Rufus gave of Gregory the Great.

Here, by the way, is a picture of Pius IX. A terrible Pope, in my opinion (and the only one to reign for longer than John Paul II, bar Peter himself) but he looks like quite a nice man!

On the contrary, most of the African cardinals are extremely conservative and would have fitted the conservative elements of the church ideally (much like their Anglican counterparts). You shouldn't read too much into Ratzinger's election: the fact that a developing world Pope wasn't elected doesn't mean they have some prejudice against one, merely that they happened not to elect one. Ratzinger would always have been a more likely candidate than Hummes irrespective of where they came from.

Going back onto topic...

[Civ Army] I think it would be pretty odd to make Frei Caneca look like a Pope in any era, to be honest. However, if you wanted to do it, the Pope should generally wear white, with perhaps a red cloak, rather like the picture Rufus gave of Gregory the Great.

Here, by the way, is a picture of Pius IX. A terrible Pope, in my opinion (and the only one to reign for longer than John Paul II, bar Peter himself) but he looks like quite a nice man!

Ratzi election was made as transitional papate that continues the John Paul II ideas: Benny XVI was the "inquisition" president, then more choices made by JP II were in accord of his ideas. But I remember to you that also John XIII was elected as transitional pope, and he opened the Lateran Council!

As Catholic and Italian, I don't make judgement on Ratzi... it's only 2 days that he is pope, he needs time, IMO.

[Civ Army] I think it would be pretty odd to make Frei Caneca look like a Pope in any era, to be honest. However, if you wanted to do it, the Pope should generally wear white, with perhaps a red cloak, rather like the picture Rufus gave of Gregory the Great.

I wanted give him a Catholic or simply Christian look in the 4 eras, but it is hard find props to do that, for this reason the Medieval Age resemble ("remind") a Pope, but that was not my intentation :)

I wanted give him a Catholic or simply Christian look in the 4 eras, but it is hard find props to do that, for this reason the Medieval Age resemble ("remind") a Pope, but that was not my intentation :)

That's fair enough, then. He could be a bishop in that age rather than a Pope.

It's a great-looking LH, by the way. All the eras look really nice. Good job!

That's fair enough, then. He could be a bishop in that age rather than a Pope.

It's a great-looking LH, by the way. All the eras look really nice. Good job!

Actually he remember to me the dress of heretical, when justiced.

I know I could really use a Medieval/Renaissance era Pope LH, and I'm sure others could too, I so I support this LH idea wholeheartedly -- even a single-era Pope LH would be fine with me, if he fit the Medieval/Renaissance bill. Too bad no LH creator has yet to volunteer their invaluable skills for this project.