GOTM43 - Japan

It's Japan... need I say more! :)

Civilization Japan.
Difficulty: Deity.
World: Standard 5000 tile, Continents, 70% Water.
Climate: Wet, Warm.
Barbarians: Restless.
Goody Huts: Workers, not settlers.
Rivals: 10 pre-selected.

Note: Some usually scientific civs have had their traits altered so as to provide only one scientific civ in the game. Nothing else about those tribes have been altered.

Starting maps:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/gotm43large.jpg

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/gotm43mini.jpg

Conquest class bonus:


Knowledge: The knowledge of Masonry and Bronze Working (in addition to The Wheel & Ceremonial Burial).


Predator class equalisers:


Knowledge: Your people are backward. You start with no techs whatsoever. :)

may Wodan, Thor and Donar have mercy on me:
Mad-bax, deity and Japan is too much for poor little me

I'll give it a go. But I may pick conquest.

I see water, so start worker 1W. If it's coastal, move settler, if not, settle in place.

Now if this ain't a good 20K spot or what? It's the only shield I have left to grab, and most likely I will be spending the next 3 months trying to get it. Since submitting GOTM42, I've been preparing assuming Russia would be this month's civ, since that was the civ with the longest time since last being played. I was clearly wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them in the next 2 months.

If the spot 1W is, in fact, coastal(although it doesn't look like it will be, considering the two adjacent tiles(NE and SW) are both land) then it is a near perfect 20k location in my opinion: Several food bonuses(wines), a couple of floodplains, mountains, on a river, and minimal water tiles(4 at most). If not, the hill would make a good OCC spot: River, lux, hill, the only downside being the two desert tiles within the 21, but there's 12 good tiles workable prior to sanitation, so that's good enough.


If the site isn't coastal, the worker's on a forest so I'll start a chop while pumping out 2 exploring warriors(should be able to go 3-3-2-2 on them, and still be 2 turns from the chop completing) then switching to a Temple or a Barracks, which will be hastened by the chop. (Japan is religious/militaristic, right? Or do I have the traits wrong again?) After that I'm ready for a quick settler to get the game rolling, and then start on the 20k run. I'm assuming the OCN hasn't been changed, so I might make this a 10CC so the FP is available. After getting 10 cities out(hopefully I'll have room) I'll probably want to prepare for war with a neighbor, if only to keep the pressure off on at least one side, or at least to secure iron and horses if I don't have them myself. (In my russian test games I've had great success with combined stacks of archers, spears, and cats against larger AIs with the help of one "other-side" alliance.) At least this will give me room to breathe and leave some room between my cities if I choose to do an XCC of some kind.


Actually, looking at it, I'm wondering if moving the worker to the mountain wouldn't be a bad idea - I'd get to see more than moving to the forest, but the chop would be delayed one turn.

What is that thing on the mountain?

What is that thing on the mountain?

Looks like mountain goats! :confused:


I think I might try this on conquest too. I went back and tried the Iroquois diety GOTM through 1000 BC and got 14 towns built in that time. There are a lot of shields & food here - looks like I could try that route again.

First are questions.

1. What “altered” traits means? Do they have different traits? If they do, are their starting techs correspond to their new traits? If not, how we can learn what traits they have?
2 What is that white stuff in the sw mountain? Is it a bonus lux? Sheep or Goat??? Looks like it gives +2 food. If so, mining this mountain makes sense, it will make very productive tile.
3. Predator handicap looks like a pure handicap instead of usual handicap combined with a possibility of a little bonus. I never won on diety, so I definitely will play open.

Starting sequence.
Settle at the place because starting position looks good enough, we stay on fresh water and lux, there is a handy forest west, flood plains south and plenty of bgs.
Worker s and irrigate. The only thing against settling at the place is that we will loose a nice tile with grapes on a hill (2.2.2)
Research and building – I need to think about it.

Starting techs and UU's for all civs remain unaltered. Only the trait is altered. Instead of being scientific they will be expansionist (with scouts) or industrious for example.

The white stuff on the mountains is one of the mediterranean resources. You can read about them from a link posted in the GOTM reference thread. :)

Instead of being scientific they will be expansionist (with scouts) or industrious for example. The white stuff on the mountains is one of the mediterranean resources.


Your answer created more questions :crazyeye: :

1. Is Ainwood playing this game? (I did not notice that it was not him who posted this thread)
2. Is there a way to determine what are altered traits?
3. Did you use all set of Mediterranean resources, olives, etc. or only some of them.
4. Since there are Mediterranean resources, should we also expect giant squids?

So does it mean it's not out-of-the-box game? :(

What about the Mod police? I thought GOTMs would never be modded again, and I was very happy about it: Mediterranean resources never worked for me and they crashed my CIV so badly I had to reinstall everything every time. :(

Oh well, that was Vanilla, maybe I'll be more lucky with PTW.
But if there would ever be a vote about modding GOTMs my vote would be "No". The game is quite fascinating without the mods, IMHO.

As for 20K spot: the spot is great but doing it on Deity would be difficult: what with fast Tech pace, and building bonuses for AI, and the need to expand quickly etc... No, I won't try 20K until Regent.

On the other hand, those Tech bonuses/handicaps could mean we are alone on an island which would allow us to concentrate on 20K for a while. Hmm...

eek deity is higher than emperor right?

What's the big scary deal about japan? I've noted people saying things like go for the wheel unless japan is in the game and so on. What have I missed with that?

I might have a crack at this, AFTER editing the save game to knock the difficulty back to monarch, just out of interest. See how my COTM goes first.

What about 100K?

I am scared of Japan. I have tried them a few times, and I never do well. They are not great for rapid expansion. On diety level you may be stuck with 3-4 towns by the end of the expansion phase.

But the land looks good, many rivers. I would want 2-3 exploring warriors asap to make contacts and exploit the tech monopoly you get with the wheel. Then decide if its worth it to make a granary in the first town.

If you can get samurai, they will make a dent in somebody, allowing you to double or triple your lands. Thats why I am wondering if that would be enough to try for a 100K with packed in towns.

@ THEmike- Japan is the only civ in the game that starts with the wheel, and can therefore see the critical horses from the start.

HA 10 rivals? It looks like a crowded start. Settle in place for sure. I was hoping to avoid using an archer rush for the freakin third game in a row but with this many folk on a standard continents map AND having a militaristic civ, I think thats the way the wind will blow. I had considered playing Predator for COTM 12, no pottery's not that big a deal, but here its gotta be open for me. Starting with the wheel is one of Japan's biggest attributes.

My moneys on Greece being on our continent as one of those crazy non sci peoples. I like the challenge.

I second Soleno in that we should know the changed civs (we're just gonna F10 who our rivals are anyway) and their traits. And again on if those bloody squid are running about amongst those crazy sea cloud puffs that you need to defeat, if you have any idea what Im talking about.

As for victory condition Im killin em all.

Well, I'm currently on a run to collect all the shield awards (lowest scoring victories) and 20K is the only one left for me, although someone recently posted a score in a spoiler thread that was _very_ close to mine, but I think I had like 25 firaxis points less as well as finishing some 18 years later, so I think I'm good for Diplo. If not, then Diplo becomes priority target, and I'll leave 20k for next month's Emperor game. I still need to grab a "blue ambulance" or "reverse cow" (something which hasn't been officially implemented) which is just basically the lowest base score out of a winning game. For that, I'll probably do OCC 20k/diplo/space on the next Monarch or Regent game.

um, sorry to ask a noob question, but talking about the Mod - I gather it must be downloaded and installed to play this one? If so, is this the Mod I can get on the GOTM main page?

I'm wondering about the mod myself - the mediterranian resources aren't part of the normal vanilla GOTM expansion, and they're not part of PTW at all, so I'm assuming a graphics pack will be included for those who need it?

yey samuray + arty = great fun :)
deity + samuray + arty + militaristic = whole bunch of GL

1. Is Ainwood playing this game? (I did not notice that it was not him who posted this thread)
I certainly hope so! I haven't played a GOTM since GOTM 27, so I might be a bit rusty though. ;)


2. Is there a way to determine what are altered traits?
Both CivAssist and CrpMapstat will tell you the traits of the other civs I believe.

um, sorry to ask a noob question, but talking about the Mod - I gather it must be downloaded and installed to play this one? If so, is this the Mod I can get on the GOTM main page?
It depends on what version you are playing. If you are playing PTW, then the 'mod' is a small pictures file - unzip the folder and dump it in your \Civ3PTW\Scenarios\ folder. If you're playing Vanilla, the standard 'full' installer should suffice (but MB can confirm).

Woohoo Deity.

With a little trick it's possible to build 4 turn settlers in start position.

size 5-7
Turn1 size 5:
shields: center 1, mined BG 2x2 = 5 (5)
food: 2xwines, 1x floodplain = +5
Turn2:
shields: center 1, mined BG 2x2, growth 2 = 7 (12)
food: 2xwines, 1x floodplain = +5
Turn3 size 6:
shields: center 1, mined BG 3x2 = 7 (19)
food: 2xwines, 1x floodplain = +5
Turn4:
shields: center 2, mined BG 3x2, growth 2 = 10 (29)
food: 2xwines, 1x floodplain = +5

For last missing shield. Found one town nearby, 2 tiles East is a good location. Build only warriors in that town and disband warrior during 4 turn cycle in capital. :)

@Kunningas: Mining the goats might help with the extra shield as well (I think......) :ack:

It is +2 shields after mining?

I think that's an fp wheat 2S and 1E of the starting location.

That could also make moving 1S a reasonable decision, as the expansion would include that bonus and not waste the wine on the hill.

:scan: You must have bionic eyes! But I think I see it now, too.
Food should not problem. That´s good, because I had some desert-starts lately...

It is +2 shields after mining?
Well, I think its 2 food, 2 shields + one commerce before mining. Mining should add 2 shields, but one is lost due to the despotic penalty - should still give 3 / turn.

Turn4:
shields: center 2, mined BG 3x2, growth 2 = 10 (29)
food: 2xwines, 1x floodplain = +5

Where does the extra shield in "center 2" come from?

Going to size 7, I believe.

Isn't the extra city center shield just for industrious civs? Japan is Militaristic/Religious, no?

Once a settlement becomes a city, the shields underneath the city are counted. So cities founded on hills, plains, and bonus grassland get the extra shield, once they are actually cities.

[I think]

Once a settlement becomes a city, the shields underneath the city are counted. So cities founded on hills, plains, and bonus grassland get the extra shield, once they are actually cities.

[I think]

In other words, at size 5 it is one and at size 7 it is 2
[I guess]

Yeah, and also the city square is "automatically" mined + roaded but always generates 2 food.

You can read about them from a link posted in the GOTM reference thread. :)

Unfortunately, there are no pictures. But since it is a mountain, it is goats and not sheeps. There are two types of goats, young ones and adult ones. Adult ones are better because they give +s. I guess we have adult goats because of that small bluish brick in top left corner, which most likely specifies an extra shield.

This make sw mountain very productive spot, after mining we will get 3s in despotism and 4s after and we do not need extra food from other tiles to support a guy working at this Fujiayama.

Unfortunately, there are no pictures.

I guess you must have missed this link (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm21_features.shtml)

Looks like an easy 4-turner then. We should be able to expand quite easily. Do horses upgrade to sams?

Looks like an easy 4-turner then. We should be able to expand quite easily. Do horses upgrade to sams?
:hmm: Apparently they do (120 gold each though, so Leo's might be a nice-to-have).

Only 80 gold to upgrade horses in PTW.

Since it's deity, it might be better to go straight for cavalry.

I guess you must have missed this link (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm21_features.shtml)

Yes, I did miss it, :thanx:

I kept thinking about Fujiyama and I would like to provoke a discussion regarding it. I am wondering if the following way of reasoning makes any sense:

This is a) crowded map; b) diety.
As a result a large part of land will be occupied by AI right in the beginning.
In such situation, are a settler factory and high food production as important as in other games?

On another hand, mining Fujiyama will take 18! turns. However, when mine is completed, we will be able to produce a warrior per 2 turns with only two citizens. Or a warrior per turn with mined bgs and 4 citizens.

What should our worker do, irrigate wines and flood plains as usual or mine Fujiyama instead? Does it sound too radical?

edit: changed "mine wines" to "irrigate wines" as correctly spotted by Killercane.

Ack.
I'm not sure I want to do this.
This may be the game to get the Civ3 monkey off my back.
Spectator, perhaps.

@ Solenoozerec- Definitely TOO radical, but good thinking outside the box. I assume you mean water the wines. you can water a couple wines and mine the BG with those 18 turns. A thought however is an early pre-settler worker with all that food, who could then help mine the second BG and then do the mountain task. Thats not counting forest chops for a granary. Christ Im getting lost counting turns here.

Hmmm I just got waxed at 3200 BC by two Ottoman warriors and 2 spears in a test game. This one might be very good or embarrasingly bad.

Mined BG is more useful than irrigated wines or floodplains, until you have a granary built.

Good point Dave what do you think about bleeding a second worker out of there?

Mining Fujiyama takes 18 turns and give 1 extra shield per turn. Mining bg takes 6 turns and gives the same 1 extra shield. Therefore mining Fujiyama probably is TOO radical indeed.

Thinking about this game gives me headache.
1. We could start researching pottery and building granary straight away, but if we do so, we may miss an opportunity to trade our wheel for other techs.
2. If we start building warriors we can get trades earlier, but this will delay granary and our expansion.
3. We could try to build a settler before granary and use one of the cities as a settler factory and another city as a warrior pump.

The problem is that I just could not calculate what decision will be better in this situation. First one would be my choice in most games, but because this is a crowded deity, I am not sure.

What's the deal with the Mediteranean graphics? Wool is a TRADABLE luxury? I never downloaded this mod. Have I been missing out on extra cash/lux/food/shields/etc this whole time, or do these Med graphics replace other luxies/bonuses? Confused.

What's the deal with the Mediteranean graphics? Wool is a TRADABLE luxury? I never downloaded this mod. Have I been missing out on extra cash/lux/food/shields/etc this whole time, or do these Med graphics replace other luxies/bonuses? Confused.
Well, you haven't been "missing out" on them in the sense that they would help in other games - they need to be speicifically added to a scenario. In this case they are 'extra' resources - they don't replace anything. In short - I believe that in this game there are 10 luxury resorces available.

Thinking about this game gives me headache.
1. We could start researching pottery and building granary straight away

Well, no headache necessary for this option. This doesn't work, because you have no prebuild with more than 30sh.
You will have to do 2 or 3 other builds before anyways, except an expansionist civ finds you right away.

Just to be clear about the mod.
Vanilla 1.29f players do not have to download anything (other than the official GOTM install pack which you have anyway if you have played GOTM before). PTW players will need to download a small (400k) zip file which will be unzipped in the civilization\CIV3PTW\Scenarios directory. Alanh may even provide an installer to do this, because he is such a helpful chap.

There is a small bug in the original version of the GOTM mod which means that a couple of resources do not show correctly in the City view and in colonies. I will provide a small file to fix this, but it is an optional thing - it is not absolutely required for the game. The file was kindly provided to my by Furiey.

Well, no headache necessary for this option. This doesn't work, because you have no prebuild with more than 30sh.
You will have to do 2 or 3 other builds before anyways, except an expansionist civ finds you right away.

:thanx: You made my day. We can collect 30 shields in about 8 turns. There is no way that we will get pottery without external help in 8 turns :wallbash:.
I do not like option 3 because it delays everything, so it looks like I will start researching mysticism and producing warriors. My worker will be mining bg and I will settle at the spot.

Your answer created more questions :crazyeye: :

1. Is Ainwood playing this game? (I did not notice that it was not him who posted this thread)
2. Is there a way to determine what are altered traits?
3. Did you use all set of Mediterranean resources, olives, etc. or only some of them.
4. Since there are Mediterranean resources, should we also expect giant squids?

1. Yes I think so. (Hope so)
2. Yes. CivAssist or Mapstat
3. Play the game and find out. ;)
4. No. All flavour units have been stripped from the game.

re: Conquest bonuses:

Very generous on the tech side, but maybe there could be a Settler/Worker pair instead of one of the techs (I'm not ungrateful, just trying to win my first deity game :crazyeye: )

One of the quirks of having "guest" game designers is that they will have different prejudices to various aspects of the game. The Conquest and Predator changes reflect my prejudices in this regard. I hope that the extra tech for conquest will give a lot of help to less experienced players, but hardly any to the mainstream. Similarly, I hope that the loss of two techs would hurt a mainstream player without being a great handicap to an elite player. What I wanted to avoid was giving Predator players something they could use to their advantage to inflate their score, or something to conquest players that could be exploited by a mainstream player. As the game unfolds perhaps you might appreciate the thought that went into this. It's not quite as straightforward as it might appear.

@Redbad:

I thought Thor and Donar were the same?

@many:

The gods may be on a diet of nectar, but they are nevertheless d-e-i-ties, not *dieties.

@mad-bax: Thanks for the reply -- I look forward to the game (meanwhile, after work, I'll contemplate why you chose these two techs -- I am sure there's a reason).

So, I need a mod to play this in PTW?
I got Civ3 Complete just so I wouldn't need mods to play GOTM.

I'm sorry you feel like that. FWIW the mod is very small, only adds in the resources and won't interfere with your standard installation.

OK. I'll trust you on the mod. Will it come with the GOTM save when its released?

I'll also trust you on the game itself, too. I'll probably play conquest, cuz I'm just not good enough yet. I hope its challenging, but not frustrating. Nothing worse, IMO, than a game with obsticles that are clever or cute and ultimately frustrating to an average player like me. I think you've chosen the conquest bonuses with some thought, and I hope your ideas pan out into a challenging game.

I'm thinking that the modded tiles will help us out, but the free techs from conquest might not be anything a good round of traiding could not handle.

I just dont know how to handle expansion with japan and whether i should settle 1 tile W on the woods or in place. I hate to waste a wine hill by settling on it.

I hope that the extra tech for conquest will give a lot of help to less experienced players, but hardly any to the mainstream. Similarly, I hope that the loss of two techs would hurt a mainstream player without being a great handicap to an elite player... As the game unfolds perhaps you might appreciate the thought that went into this. It's not quite as straightforward as it might appear.

I think there is a spoiler information encoded in these words. Now I am wondering how to decode it :mischief:

Don't bother - it's not coded anything. I'm not that clever. An elite player can get the first tier techs for free essentially and less experienced players get stuffed with the Deity tech pace. That is all there is to it - nearly.

I think in this case settling on the wine isn't that big of a loss - there's other food bonuses around(and irrigating grassland takes less worker turns than mining a hill), and you get the lux hooked up immediately, meaning you don't need to do anything about happiness(either by MP or Lux Slider) until size 3. This means you can send out more exploring warriors, meaning you can broker techs earlier, and you save a little extra gold in the beginning, also helping with tech trading. The ONLY case I would have for moving was if the tile 1W was coastal, but it doesn't look like it will be.

EDIT: I think I see olives on the hill 2SW. Any more-experienced foggazers care to investigate this?

Don't bother - it's not coded anything. I'm not that clever. An elite player can get the first tier techs for free essentially and less experienced players get stuffed with the Deity tech pace. That is all there is to it - nearly.

*cough* tGL *cough*



....?

What's "standard 5000 tiles" as far as world size goes?

A standard map is 100x100 (10,000 tiles), with 70% water meaning ~3,000 of those are land tiles.

So 5000 tiles is a slightly bigger map, if there's 70% water? In which case it's more likely a large map and 10 rivals is normal.

I think "100x100" ends up having 5000 tiles TOTAL, and 70% of THAT is water. I'm not sure, but I think that's how it works - because of the way the tiles are arranged, AxB ends up being (A*B)/2 tiles.

I think "100x100" ends up having 5000 tiles TOTAL, and 70% of THAT is water. I'm not sure, but I think that's how it works - because of the way the tiles are arranged, AxB ends up being (A*B)/2 tiles.

D'oh - that does make some kind of sense!

I was thinking about the number of land tiles, too.
It´s my first deity-game and I´m wondering how many cities I´ll be able to build.

So if it´s 5000 tiles on the map, that makes 1500 land tiles: about 135 per civ. But wait - don´t deity-AIs get a bonus settler? In this case I´ll double their number. Dividing 1500 by 21, the Japanese should recieve about 71 land tiles in their expansion-phase, probably less if you take into account the occasional island.

As I´m definitly no deity, I´ll get even less for sure. So I don´t think I´ll build a granary, I´m expansionistically-pessimist...
btw, I´m also pessimistic in terms of survival...

Don't bother - it's not coded anything. I'm not that clever. An elite player can get the first tier techs for free essentially and less experienced players get stuffed with the Deity tech pace. That is all there is to it - nearly.

Yet I think it tells us smth. If we were on a separate island and were need to research everything ourselves, 4 techs would make a lot of difference.
Therefore, I conclude that we are not along and I guess that we have plenty neighbors.

So I don´t think I´ll build a granary, I´m expansionistically-pessimist...
btw, I´m also pessimistic in terms of survival...

Then do you think that our first build should be barracks?

I will build 3 or 4 warriors to get to know the land before I decide anything. Then maybe a settler or a granary if we have room. If it looks tight I will get a barracks, but not before the first settler. We can see the horses so if any are close they should be grabbed. If I need to fight, I'll build up to the 8 unit support limit for two cities and hit somebody.

If I wanted to play a test game with plain old PTW, just to limber up, what would be the recommendation?

I was thinking Japan on an easier setting with 10 civs and the same world conditions on a random map (that has some easy lux and BG).
What early things should I try to do so I'm comfortable with strategy and Japan's Ancient Age strengths?

This would be the strategy I'd go with, until I learned more:
Tight RCP. Inner 3 or 4. Outer 6 or so.
Build several warriors to scout. One for MP.
Pop settler early.
Food rich cities build workers and settlers.
Shield rich cities build barracks then best offensive units.
Get to Literature and try for GL.
Monarchy until Samurai finish expanding the core by force. (When the Forbidden Palace is available, I'm half way there.)
Libraries or temples (depending) as the core grows.
Trade, trade, trade.
Hope for a great leader.

A few notes to maybe calm a few fears.

It's been my experience that a GOTM Diety isn't quite as hard as a random Diety game. The creators in the past have been kind enough to supply us with decent starting positions and from the opening screenshot Madbax has provided a very nice start.

Yeah, the AI gets a free Settler, but the AI is also inefficient in their builds. If you settle at the start and follow Kuningas' plan on page 1 (without the Warrior disband since I think others showed it is not necessary) you will have a 4-turn Settler factory. There is also lots of floodplains and a likely wheat to the south/southwest where you can build another town to crank out Settlers or Workers. To the north and east there are grass with plenty of shields allowing for good military production. As long as there aren't any AI right on top of us (and I don't know that Madbax is quite that evil) we should be able to carve out a nice core before the AI hems us in.

My plan: Build a few Warriors to locate the nearest AI and then get an early Worker and Settler out to get both food centers developed. Get my Granaries built and start pumping out the Settlers and Workers. Build Warrior/Worker/Barracks in all other towns followed by Warriors/Chariots or Horsemen depending on the location of Horses/Iron. Being Diety I'd think one of these will be relatively close.

Being a religious civ and wanting to get the advanced govt tile production as early as possible, I'll start researching on Mysticism and work to get Monarchy ASAP. I'll eventually switch to Republic but the 1-turn Anarchy isn't painful unless you are going 20k. Odds are, barring the eilte players, you will be behind in tech in the early going. Don't panic! Being a little behind isn't that bad. At least the techs are cheaper. Keep trying for techs that AIs don't like to research (Polytheism, Mathematics, Code of Laws are examples in the AA - with rivers at our start Mysticism is also likely) just one monopoly can be used to trade your way to tech parity. If you expand well, there is a lot of commerce in our start and you shouldn't fall too far behind.

Usually 20k is a fairly easy path but for Diety it is difficult for two reasons. First, the AI will beat you to a lot of Wonders - especially if you have trouble managing the fast tech pace at this level. Second, having a major city dedicated to Wonders means you are producing less units and expanding slower, making you a more desirable target for the AI. For an easier win in this game I'd suggest a Diplomatic win. Personally, I'm going to try for Conquest or Domination. I've been in a heavy builder mode lately and duking it out with the Diety armies will be a nice change of pace.

Basically, my advice for the nervous: Focus on expanding your core, don't go crazy on the Spears, build Barracks (not in your food centers!) and lots of cheap offensive military. If you must, get a prebuild going for the Great Library but it may be a better learning experience to try and keep up in tech on your own. Effective trading is an important skill in improving your game even for lower difficulty levels.

Finally - it's just a game! Tis better to have tried and failed then to have slunk off into sunset. Give it a shot and you might be surprised how well you can do. :)

Sorry to bring the question again. Where can we find this *.pcx files for new resources for PTW? I didn't find the link to the file on the page AlanH mentioned (I hope that it was AlanH).

Also, don't forget, I'm pretty sure we are monopoly wheel. Don't trade away the monopoly until you have 2-4 trading partners. Keeping up in trade is all about contacts so get snooping for everyone right out of the gate.

Sorry to bring the question again. Where can we find this *.pcx files for new resources for PTW? I didn't find the link to the file on the page AlanH mentioned (I hope that it was AlanH).

I'm sure the file will be given on the save download page when it is posted, but if you'd like to get it now I'm pretty sure it's the same file we've been using for the SGOTM which can be found on this page. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110909)

Sorry to bring the question again. Where can we find this *.pcx files for new resources for PTW? I didn't find the link to the file on the page AlanH mentioned (I hope that it was AlanH).

I only supplemented a post about where to find the *descriptions* of the extra resources by giving a link to a thread showing some *pictures* of the resources. See post #33 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2753642&postcount=33) in this thread.

M-B has said I might try to produce an installer to make it easier to install the scenario files. I'm not too keen on doing so, as I have no way to test it and very little time between now and game release on 15th to fix it if I get it wrong. So I prefer to provide a link to a .zip file you can download, place in your PtW Scenarios folder and double click. I was going to provide that link on the game intro page on the GOTM web site. I *could* post it here now, but it wouldn't help much because you will not be able to confirm that you have installed it correctly until the start file is released.

Arrrr, this one looks exciting. I don't have much to add. Settling in place and researching mysticism first, gunning toward Monarchy seems the way to go for me. Do my homework so that I don't bobble the 4-turn settler factory opportunity. I'm betting all my chips that we're not alone, and can contact several civs pretty quickly- top priority really. It would be nice to be able to punch somebody right as writing comes out, to gain a few early cities, take a chance at an early leader, and get the AI fighting each other ASAP. Anyone else feel like taking a swipe at someone in the AA?

Tight RCP. Inner 3 or 4. Outer 6 or so.


I wish there will be an outer ring.

@Sabre - even a good start during previous deity (GOTM37, I think) and being in the first 20 of global rating combined with expansionist trait and a very good earlier UU did not help me to win.
Though I had a good chance for a highest scoring looser (got 2nd).

In this game,
1. we do not have as good start as in GOTM37
2. we do not have earlier UU, we need to research chivalry.
3. we are not expansionist
4. In my opinion UU sucks. It cost, attack and moves as normal knight, its slight defensive bonus is useles.
5. We have more AI civs, so that ratio of human units/settlers per AI units/settlers is much smaller compared to GOTM37
6. We are on continents, not pangaea, which means that we probably will need to find a way to get to another continent, by that time AI on that continent will have railroads.
7. The only advantage is The Wheel indeed. But I do not see any horses :aargh:

Why should I be optimistic about this game?

I am really frightened by this game.

It actually makes me thrilled, I probably will try for highest scoring looser again :spear:

Anyone else feel like taking a swipe at someone in the AA?

Taking a risk "all or nothing" is something that I am considering right now. However, I am afraid that I will not have guts to attack deity AI in AA after I start the game. Though we will see, I certainly would not do this against AI who knows BW.
It is also possible that exterminating one AI civ earlier will help other AIs to develop and become scarier. So may be it is wise to play a mouse until chivalry.
I do not know: hmm:

Once you've got a couple spears built, a random early DOW on a neighbor is great for pointy stick expansion. Its always great to watch the AI warriors suicide on your hilltop capital, and then have your opponent give you one of their "free" extra cities for nothing. Slower expansion for yourself and your opponent is the tradeoff, allowing the others to surge ahead. We'll have to see how many people start on the home continent. Could there be 3 or 4 continents in the game?

This game will cause us to make a number of crucial tactical decisions in the 2000 BC range.

I'm not so sure the extra defense for the Samurai will be useless in this game. The Diety AI will be able to counterattack pretty fiercely and having a mobile 3-defender will help build up overwhelming numbers faster. It's also timed for a nice Golden Age which will help crank out more Samurai and help keep up in tech during the tough early half - getting me to Military Tradition quicker. For a lesser difficulty level you are right that the extra defense doesn't really help as much as an extra offense or move would as the counterattack isn't bad.

GOTM 37 was a lot of fun and you are right, that was a nice start. I think this one looks just as good so far though. You actually played a pretty good game that month with only a bad break with Persia preventing you from getting a Domination victory @1200ad. Not too shabby. I think everyone is at risk of losing a Diety game. But it's also quite possible for a lot of people to win given a nice starting area.

Jove - An early attack to deny Iron or Horses from a neighbor would be nice and if you can get an ally to help, you could really gain some ground.

Yes, I agree, a defense point is not useless. It is just I probably would prefer them being cheaper or faster.

As for the attitude towards this game, I think I simply would prefer to overestimate its difficulty than to underestimate. I think that the smell of fear in the air is healthy for this pregame discussion :evil:

As for my GOTM37 performance, a major lesson that I learnt is importance of keeping a force balance among AIs. It is better to have two strong civs than one, because they could fight against each other. My mistake was that I did not do enough diplomacy to keep Persians from destroying others.

And here comes another concern about this particular game. What if by the time we find a second continent, there will be only one civilization?

I bet SirPleb, if he has seen this, is salivating at the opportunity to win pre IA.

Also remember the Samurai don't require horses - kind of ironic since you're able to see them from the start, and the only reason I can see going after them is to deny them to the AI.

My test game I didn't get as quite a good start, and I couldn't fit 10 opponents on a Standard continents map. But I played through the AA anyway. I managed to get 4 good cities out before I was boxed in; I set it up as 70% Water Continents and drew 7 opponents on my landmass, meaning there's an empty continent out there somewhere, and it WAS a very crowded start. (Note: I did settle a large desert to the SE of my capital with 3 other cities, which spent most of the AA building 10- or 7-turn catapaults.) I had China north, Persia east, England southeast, India southwest(water was due south), and Germany northwest. Zulu were farther southeast, past Persia, and Babylon was north of Germany/China. China only had 6 cities from the start, and Babylon about 10. China and Germany teamed up on Babylon from the time Iron was out, and I sent about a dozen swords up there(mostly upgraded warriors). Razed one city, captured another, and settled two towns(one within Babylon's 1000+ border). Got peace for all 3 available middle age techs(mono, feudalism, and engineering) plus a distant island town; Babylon is the only city remaining on the mainland but I didn't have any coastal cities to get the 3 sitting on nearby islands. Germany got two, China got none and was also subsequently run over by German Cavalry, this was in 10BC by the way. (I, on the other hand, had just switched to Monarchy and was 40-turning chivalry. I still didn't have republic, but WW would've killed me at this stage.) Germany was tech leader by far, although apparently they went straight for MT(something I've never seen happen) since I recently got UP on them by Theology and traded it for Invention + GPT. (This is wierd in itself; I've NEVER seen the AI ignore the top half of the MA tech tree.) Meanwhile someone trades Education to the English and their GL is obsolete, but that doesn't mean it's useless to me. Right now I'm 4 turns from Chivalry, have a Chinese Iron hooked up, and Granary/Library prebuilds in every city so I'll have between 6-7 sams within 2 turns of getting the tech. England had a few desert cities taken by Persia meaning with a Persian RoP I can be on the GL's front stairs in a couple of turns, and hopefully Germany will do some trading and I can get MT for free. England's in bad shape; no Iron or Horses and they're stuck with spears. I'm 5th biggest out of 7 remaining Civs(China's gone; Babs and England are down to 3 each). But I didn't manage to grab one wonder, mostly because of (1) noncoastal start and (2) I've been building military, temples, and barracks the whole game. I probably could've taken 2 more Chinese cities if I had Medieval Swordsmen available, but I'm stuck with vanilla, so no dice there.


As far as the extra defence point goes: I think it'll be great - AI Knights will just bounce off of them, and you won't have to build escorts or bring in defensive units from your core when conquering.

I'm ready for this one! Unfortunately, I didn't have time to finish GOTM 37, but I managed to make the Modern Age (though I was probably about to lose a space race). For my first real deity attempt, it went pretty well. Of course, the Japanese certainly aren't the Iroquois...

One question for seasoned deity players out there. Should I do min research or self research? Last time I stuck with min research. I managed to more-or-less catch up in the middle of the industrial ages, but they began to pull away at the beginning of the modern ages and the amount of cash I was shelling out (for techs and oil) severely hampered my military in the modern ages. Also, as I didn't build libraries and universities (less upkeep = more income), turning over to self research really wasn't possible, as tech would take far too long (15-20 turns) and that reduced my income, making me even less able to buy techs.

So, what would you recommend?

I bet SirPleb, if he has seen this, is salivating at the opportunity to win pre IA.

If I will not win this game pre IA, I certainly will loose it. I will try to avoid researching after chivalry in hope that we do not need navigation.
Under circumstances, I will research Military tradition, but I do not see a reason to enter IA.
As for SirPleb, I fear that he is skipping this game which is, of course, pity.

Also remember the Samurai don't require horses - kind of ironic since you're able to see them from the start,

You are right, I did not notice that. What a wicked UU. You can built chariots and eventualy upgrade them to samurais' after loosing your horses to AI :brrr:

I haven't played vanilla for ages, but maybe i'll try this one out.
Sounds like an interesting game: i like playing on high difficulty levels.

Sir Pleb, are you gonna play this, and if so, what victory condition will you go for ?

As for SirPleb, I fear that he is skipping this game which is, of course, pity.

But hendrikzoon'll play it instead.

Samurai are sort of fun to use with cavalry, oddly enough. They work as fast defensive units that can actually keep up with the offensive if you plan well. And once the enemy is gassed, they pick off longbows and such nearly as well as cavs do.

Renata

But hendrikzoon'll play it instead.

No: hendrikszoon just plays Cotms.

Even if he played Gotm43, I guess hendrikszoon won't make too many comments on his game here :(

Hi,

Could someone point me out a thread or a post on how to recreate this starting position using the editor (even if without the mediterranean resources). Can i use the Conquests editor and still recreate PTW rules? Thanks in advance. :)

Hi leopalas: yes you can, and with the resources too.

Just visit the SGOTM Reference Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112722) and in post 3 (IIRC) you will find the bic/bix/biq and a test save for the installation. Follow the instructions to install the version of your choice and open the scenario with the editor.

If you choose to install the vanilla or the PTW version then you will also be set up to play GOTM43.

If you have any problems just give me a shout. :)

The PTW editor is included with Conquests, look in your "Civilization 3\PTW" folder.

I played a couple of test games, just to limber up.

There were only 8 Civs, and I played monarch level.

In the first, I was slowly cranking out warriors for explorers and MPs, settlers and workers. The Mongols walked up with 3 warriors and destroyed me.

In the second, I had a better start. I started with 4 warriors and they headed the same general direction. The first one met the Mongols (again) and traded nicely with them. The other 3 warriors caught up, and I took their city. I got 3 workers. 2 warriors were set as MPs and the other 2 walked about popping goody huts and dispursing barb camps for tech and gold. I settled the early war for more techs and lots of gold. Iron was right on top of me, and soon I was building swords and started warring with the Mongols again. My line of cities cut the continent in half and nothing would get through. About that time I quit. I had 8 cities, twice as many as any other AI.

The earlier warrior rush might kill you, and it might help you.

Thx a lot guys :)

I'll be re-creating the starting location and trying this as Deity. Should be able to mod the .bix to allow 11 civs as well. Should keep me busy for 15 minutes or so before I get overrun by Chinese and German Archers ;)

I think everyone is at risk of losing a Diety game. But it's also quite possible for a lot of people to win given a nice starting area.Amen, that's what's fun about it. To show that I mean that, I'll play predator.

Should I do min research or self research?
I think it's better to hang on by the skin of your teeth, trying for some of those techs that the AI don't like to research (as mentioned earlier). Although after chivalry or after Military tradition, I will probably do some minimum research to afford upgrades. If those yummie upgraded units do their job I should be able to get by force one or two of those techs I didn't research.

As for the starting position, lots of wise things have already been said. Mining the goat should not deter anyone. It's not like it's such hard work for the workers that you can't use them for other tasks later.

As far as self-research goes, Polytheism is a good one to try for(even at 40 turns I got it first in 2 of 3 test games). If you can get to the Middle Ages at a reasonable time(within 10 turns of the first AI is usually good enough), Engineering is also a good choice if you can do it in <25 turns. I traded Poly for Code of Laws, Philosophy, Construction, plus many GPT and lump sum deals, and then cash bought Currency to finish out the AA. Engineering can almost always net you Feudalism + Monotheism, and perhaps Theology or Chivalry if the AIs get that far. (They usually get Feudalism, Monotheism, Theology, and Chivalry before even considering Engineering, so this works out often.)

@Solenoozerec: Well, I don't really mean to go 'all or nothing' with these guys. On Deity, that usually works out as nothing. What I'm hoping for is the AI fighting themselves on their own. Say one of our neighbors gets cut in half, from 8 to 4 cities or whatever, fighting other AI. They're vulnerable, and taking even one or two of their cities can result in a juicy peace deal, not to mention a little land, maybe a nice FP location... That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. It's like being the crow that steals a bite from the lion's kill.
OR, we may get lucky and have a 'runt AI' for a neighbor that just didn't grow for some reason. I'd go after that guy. I wouldn't pick on someone my own size in the AA.

On deity, do the AIs get additional starting units? They get an extra settler and great unit support, and trade advantages. What else?

Or, am I mis-remembering again?

I'm thinking of COTM7 in particular with this "crowded" start.

My personal experience was a matter of biding my time whilst AIs trampled all over my territory to fight Germany, then walking into the weakened Germans' territory and crippling them.

Of course, a nearby neighbour that doesn't start with Bronze Working or Warrior Code might be ripe for an early Archer rush. Hence the decision to strip some AIs of their Scientific trait could prove critical (as long as the removal/swapping out of Scientific is also accompanied by the appropriate change of starting tech from BW to something else).

I've very interested in what starting techs the AI's will get. Maybe some of them will lose some techs as well :mischief:


I know, in the preview it says "nothing else is changed."

On deity, do the AIs get additional starting units? They get an extra settler and great unit support, and trade advantages. What else?

Or, am I mis-remembering again?
3 workers, 8 defensive units, 4 offensive units (archers for mil civ's). see the rest here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/scope_of_game.php#difficulty)

Hence the decision to strip some AIs of their Scientific trait could prove critical (as long as the removal/swapping out of Scientific is also accompanied by the appropriate change of starting tech from BW to something else).

I'm afraid not, Neil:

Starting techs and UU's for all civs remain unaltered. Only the trait is altered.

This could be interesting or at least it should be easier than my futile attempts to get a domination vitory on SID level (Currently there is no HOF entry for large map domination).

I think that's an fp wheat 2S and 1E of the starting location.

That could also make moving 1S a reasonable decision, as the expansion would include that bonus and not waste the wine on the hill.

and

You must have bionic eyes! But I think I see it now, too.

I did some testruns on the copied starting position. I must say it seems I could make a very descent start if the civvers quoted above are right. I obviously can flush my starting sequence if they're mistaken. Is there some way of putting a probability-mark on the fact if there's actually a fp-wheat?

Thanks, grahamian! That link also says that the AI starts with 2 Settlers, and I believe each AI city gets 3 free units when it is founded at Deity level. That's a lot of firepower!

The AI tends to be very aggressive getting after barb camps; chances are you'll run across just massive stacks of AI units going after these camps. In fact it might not be bad to find one and leave a unit there just to make contacts. Early on, if you see massive stacks of AI units heading your way, it's likely they are heading towards a barb camp on the other side of you. Don't panic, cause there's not much you can do about it anyway. :)

Not having any starting Techs at Predator makes me pause a bit; however, the start is good for fast growth and commerce rich, so I guess that can be worked out. For the GOTM competition, that's a huge penalty for someone to take vs the very good players using the Open save.

Playing Predator I'd probably research Wheel to start. Makes it pretty easy to decide not to build a Granary and just churn out Settlers, and might be something tradeable. With a somewhat crowded start, probably only get space for 5 to 7 cities anyway. I'll try to grab whatever super spots might be nearby, and garrison them until I can get a Settler out to them, hopefully.

Still working on GOTM42, so this is all a bit in the future.

Now I see what you mean, Jove.

I think a political situation in the game is something that is very difficult to predict and it usually varies from player to player (particularly when we have many expansionist AIs) with some exceptions (for example, when one civ is given significantly better start compared to others).

So diplomacy is something that is very hard to plan. I know only one thing:
When (and if, because who knows...) I find another continent, if I will see that one civ is growing faster than others, I will declare on it and will try to ally others against it.

BTW, if an AI makes a demand on you, give it! They will often bring in allies otherwise.

I did some testruns on the copied starting position. I must say it seems I could make a very descent start if the civvers quoted above are right. I obviously can flush my starting sequence if they're mistaken. Is there some way of putting a probability-mark on the fact if there's actually a fp-wheat?

Redbad: please don´t base your strategy on that wheat!!
I gave the fog a second close examination... and then a few more, trying around with the editor to get comparisons. I ended up quite uncertain. There is definitly something curious about that tile, but whether it´s a wheat is very hard to say - I would rate the chances for that none higher than 15-20%.
I would hate to ruin your game through over-optimistical fog-gazing.

I will most likely settle in place and use my first warrior to check the lands there.

i have made a recreation of the staret
all of the floodplains (in the fog) have wheat on them.
you cant realy see if there is a wheat on them

gotm start

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/gotm43large.jpg

my start
http://img240.echo.cx/img240/7449/gotm6mp.jpg

I have made a re-creation of the start.
All of the floodplains (in the fog) have wheat on them.
you cant really see if there is a wheat on them Is there a chance you could post a link?

Moviing S instead of settling on site loses 1 BG (N of settler) immediately and costs access to 2 forest tiles (and 1 wines) that you'd get on expansion.

Might be better off settling on site and taking the wheated flood plains (if it/they exist) as part of your first ring.

Is there a chance you could post a link?
pictures dont show for you?

http://img240.echo.cx/img240/7449/gotm6mp.jpg
and the orginal is on the first page

pictures dont show for you?

http://img240.echo.cx/img240/7449/gotm6mp.jpg
and the orginal is on the first page
No a link to the start file you made so others can do some practicing. Does the file have 10 civs in it too?

no it just a start but i can make one map fast


edit: i cant make maps for PTW because i only have c3c editor :crazyeye:

edit: i cant make maps for PTW because i only have c3c editor :crazyeye: We can play it at C3C demigod. that would kinda give us a feel for the tightness of the civs. I would download it.

ok i will make one now (random civs around japan)

ok i will make one now (random civs around japan) Well, standard map has 8 civs. the GOTM has 10. Can that be modded in?

here it is 10 rivals random but there are no custom resurces (goats & stuff...)

Thanks Durtz!

...but there are no custom resurces (goats & stuff...)

You could substitute the sheep mountain with a mined bg. Then it will be close. Otherwise you cannot compare because this tile is the best one from the very first turn.

Wined hill could also work there, and would probably be closer to the actual situation(in terms of worker-turns). Only other difference in this case would be the extra Wines.

Wined hill could also work there, and would probably be closer to the actual situation(in terms of worker-turns). Only other difference in this case would be the extra Wines.

Also -1 shield and +1 gold.

In order to make a hill like a sheep mountain, you need to put a bonus of +1 food and +1 sheild. I do not know if editor allows puting whales on hills (and if it does you'll get extra gold), but cow will work to under despotism.

I do not think that there is a good substitute for mined bg.
As for worker-turns, just do not work this tile.

The editor allows to change the bonuses of resources. So if you don't want to use mad-bax scenario files (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2574494&postcount=4) , you can just change gold to be +2f +1s 0g and put a gold on the mountain.

i cant make maps for PTW because i only have c3c editor

Are you sure? Usually it doesn't show in the Start Menu, but the Civ3XEdit.exe is availble in the CIV3PTW directory.

Are you sure? Usually it doesn't show in the Start Menu, but the Civ3XEdit.exe is availble in the CIV3PTW directory.
I didnt knew that tnx :)

Redbad: I also tested that pic against a similar startup with a definite wheat on that tile 2S, 1E of starting location.

From what I can tell, the only reason why we cannot be certain if it does or doesn't contain a wheat on it is the compression used for the posted image making the supposed wheat a bit blurry. It should be much easier to tell once you load up the game in full screen.

I will definitely head towards it if it still looks like a wheat once I load up the game. Moving S should not affect the startup too much since I doubt anyone can figure out a way to get 2 chops out of that start without poping out a worker and slowing down the granery production (and I am also leaving slaves out as a possibility since there's no foundation for assuming that you'll get them). And with an fp wheat, you only need one citizen working on a tile without sheilds instead of 3, so less bg mines are needed.

@2000warrior

It's a real dilemma.
I studied the starting position over and over. In my plans there are 2 good openings:
If there is wheat, I'll settle 2SE. This position makes a nice 4-turn settlerfactory possible using the irrigated fp-wheat, 2 mined bg and the goat-mountain.
When there's no wheat: I'll settle in place and make a 6-turn settlerfactory with 2 irrigated wines, 2 mined bg and goatmountain.

The Kuningas-variant is to elaborate to my taste and requires too high a population in Kyoto.

Settling one S is a compromise with strong disadvantages:
it looses out on the N bg and wine, I uses up a strong tile and if there is a wheat irrigating/roading it requires 2 times crossing unimproved tiles which looses a couple of workerturns.

I will most likely go for one of two opening I mentioned. I don't yet which one but I haven't finished studying it. Either way I will blame myself for chosing the wrong variant if that situation should occur.

I will most likely go for one of two opening I mentioned. I don't yet which one but I haven't finished studying it. Either way I will blame myself for chosing the wrong variant if that situation should occur.

Perhaps, but chances are you will be obliterated in 3100 BC anyway by a stack of seven Korean warriors just blundering by.

So, is there wheat or not?

I think I might sit this one out. While it looks like fun and a nice challenge, I've been neglecting my HOF efforts lately and I'll have a full week of open evenings with my wife & son at the in-laws to get in a couple of games.

I'll probably download the save and play the quick start period (to 1000BC) just to get a feel for it, but if things start looking like it'll take a lot of time to pull out a win, I'll move on to easier pastures.

And just to chip in my 2 cents, I'll probably settle in place. The surrounding luxuries, bonuses and being on a river is enough to make it a good spot. A lost turn or 2 of research, production & exploration on diety can be fatal.

Perhaps, but chances are you will be obliterated in 3100 BC anyway by a stack of seven Korean warriors just blundering by.

But then again, Piu, wouldn't you prefer dying knowing you made the right choice, then dying knowing you screwed it all up? :lol:

So, is there wheat or not?

When we download the save, perhaps 2000warrior knows. But he will not be allowed to post the answer. But for us non-foggazing mortals, may the force be with us (and some luck ;) )

I'm definitely settling in place. 2 turns at this difficulty with a "crowded" start? No thanks. That's potentially 4 tiles closer to a few adventurous warriors!

@Solenoozerec: You're right, the political situation is hard to predict. I guess I feel certain things are almost a given in a Deity game, since it is designed with being winnable in mind. For example, I predict:
-The other continent will be reachable with galleys, early in the game. If I'm wrong, send me a nasty PM.
-With all these AI switched over to expansionist, it'd be silly for us to be alone. They'll get lots of huts and tease us with their science lead.
-The start is a worker's paradise. Why mod in all those wines if there is no one nearby to trade with?
-There will be a 'runt AI' nearby. I mean, in the monarch games, we're faced with a desert start fighting opponents who begin in the Elysian Fields. On a Deity game, I'm expecting the opposite.
-Another reason to believe in 'runt AI': how the heck else does Mad Bax expect us to keep up in science? Runt or not, they'll still get way ahead in tech. Give an AI a whack and we can catch up. Not the only way to win, but the most obvious to me.

So anyway, I hope this doesn't sound defensive. If basing your strategy on faith in runt AI is not your style, I totally understand. These are just my thoughts. And of course, all my comments in the pregame should be taken with a grain of salt- I am usually proven to be full of it!

But for us non-foggazing mortals, may the force be with us (and some luck ;) )

Yes, I wouldn't count on that wheat. Even if it is there, I am not sure that a fast settler factory will be very important (I suspect that we won't have much space to explore by the time we make it).
I think that the most important issues will be techs and production. I also think that I will go towards Monarchy in this game, because I am afraid that at some point we will need a lot of military having a few cities.
And I agree with Jove, that it is very unlikely that wines are giving to us without a purpose, so I will definitely settle at 4000BC and will not look back.
I also decided to alter my previous plans regarding a worker:
On the first turn he will go north. He will be mining and roading bg for a second citizen. Then he might go chopping a forest and this is why on the first turn he will move to northern bg, not southeastern.
My first warrior also will go north, my second warrior will go south and then I probably will start a granary, if I mange to trade pottery by that time. Otherwise, I will build third warrior.
I will research Mysticism on max (in hope that we will have a little chance to get there before AI).

A slightly more than one day left to think about it.

When there's no wheat: I'll settle in place and make a 6-turn settlerfactory with 2 irrigated wines, 2 mined bg and goatmountain.

Well, settling in place can give you a fairly easy 5-turn factory with some MMing (though some might be an understatement ;)), without having to mine the goats.

I'll settle in place, if there's Wheat down south then I'll praise the gods (eh, m-b) and use it for a worker farm.

what's the age of the map? 3,4 or 5 billion? or it doesn't matter?

I have abandonned the idea of moving the settler towards any wheat. I will settle in place. I have derived an openingssequence that gets a 6-turn settler factory running at turn 32. It has by then allready poduced 1 settler. So it will in all produce 1 + ( (80 - 32) / 6) = 9 settlers by the year 1000BC. If it doesn't get disturbed, that is. I have included the spreadsheet.

Redbads openingssequence (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Redbad_gotm43_start.zip)

In the opening there's also an temple build. I put that in incase Kyoto will indeed go for 20K as I now intend.

Edit
Upon checkng I see I've made two mistakes in my spreadsheet:
4000BC worker move is N and not NE
2430BC worker move is SW-S-SE and not SE-S-SE

In the opening there's also an temple build. I put that in incase Kyoto will indeed go for 20K as I now intend.

i had a similar plan but after i played a test game, i want to try a different win other than 20k... i just didn't stand any chance to get any wonder. i didn't try since i guess leader farming will be a better way. but it's almost impossible to get ready for that unless there's some choke point or some easy diplomacy with allies. i guess the culture city can get at most 1 AA wonder.. but since the real gotm deity should always be a little easier than random deity game, i might leave the winning option open till i start the game.

I'm going to try to time it for a 2040's 20k victory. I should be able to do this even with only one AA wonder. The BEST plan seems to be 1) Get 2 settlers out, and set up some combo factories in those cities, 2) Start on GL prebuild as soon as possible(either Pyramids or Oracle), and 3) Shoot straight for Literature. The 6 -> 12 cpt of the library should be enough to get 20k in the 21st century if I get enough leaders in the Middle/Industrial ages. (This all, of course, is assuming that I haven't grabbed Diplo in GOTM 42.)

When the game will be realesed? In case of Ainwood I would expect it tomorrow morning, in case of AlanH - today evening. What about Mad-bax release time?

I'm going to try to time it for a 2040's 20k victory.
then there'll be a lot of work to do to prevent any AI from winning space. in your calculation, how many MA and IA wonder do you need?

Xerol will be going for the 20K-shield. If I'm correct that doesn't mean he has to get a late 20K date, but he has to get a low 20K score.

Best would seem to be to asap finish off the ai's but 1 and then reduce oneself to a single 20K city. At that point it isn't all that relevant when 20K will be reached.

I only hope I won't snatch the shield from him ;)

Well, yeah, I'm going to probably play the "take all cities from an AI, milk them for workers, then abandon them all" game. I'll probably just keep all the starting continent cities until Tanks come about(which seems to happen around 1400 or so on Diety Continents). Then I'll go all out with tanks/transports, flatten the other continent down to one city, surround it with tons and tons of troops(so they can't get any settlers out), then abandon most of the cities on my continent, until I've got two cores, each at OCN/2 cities, one around the Palace and one around the FP. Then I'll go all-out research until I've hit the last tech(for Strategic Missile Defense or whatever it is). After that(this shouldn't happen until at least 1800 AD by my calculations) I'll see how much CPT I'll need to hit 2048-49 for a victory date, and sell various buildings to reach that goal.

OCN on a standard map is 16, right? Ok, so that means I'll have 16 cities around from 1400ish to 2049, which is a very long time in game turns (at least 250, probably more), or nearly half of the game. I'll probably abandon all but a core of 4-5 after I get the last tech.

I'll actually see what happens after I finish off my continent, see what the tech situation is, and how many more wonders/improvements I'll need. Then I'll work on reducing the other continents, and abandon all but the capital once I've (1) finished off the AIs and (2) got enough wonders to win. (Will edit with more later.)


Ok, here's the basic point I'm getting at: I'm not exactly a stellar Diety player yet (1-6 in my test games, and none of them 20k). So I'm probably going to need all the cities I can get to cripple the AIs to the point where they can't get Space Race victory. But, if I can spend 200+ turns with just a core or 1-2 cities(I'll need 2 if I want to be able to use the Palace as a prebuild in the 20k city) then the end score will probably be pretty low. I might also need at least one city on the other continent to ship lux/resources across from, even with colonies the goods can't get across the ocean without a harbor/airport city. But, other than that, I can probably count on a low score even with a good hold on my own continent for the majority of the researching portion of the game. (Also, once my 20k city hits 10,000, there's room for some 0-culture cities to be put in there for production/gold/UNIT SUPPORT purposes without expanding the borders.)

RedBad&Xerol - lowest 20K in this game could be the highest. RedBad has stolen lowest 20K award from SirPleb in the previous deity game.

And you know what, when I went to GOTM page to check this, I found that there is an image for Japan GOTM43 among current games, although its page says:
" Sorry, this game page is not currently available. "

Does it mean that Mad-bax will be giving us this game a piece at a time? Like we have an image now, in two ours will get a description, in more 2 ours conquest save will be available, then open and so on


Does it mean that we will be feed

No. It just means we prepare all the data beforehand and set it on a timer to become publicly available at the correct time.

It actually means I've defeated the time-lock so that I can release it manually just by putting the page on line. :mischief:

The games menu only knows that we are within 12 hours of release, so it displays the menu option, but you only see a place holder page. It didn't seem to be too much of a spoiler for you to see the game image a few hours ahead, but if it disturbs you I can remove it. :rolleyes:

RedBad has stolen lowest 20K award from SirPleb in the previous deity game.

I have no remorse. It was entirely his own fault. Had he played a (much) sloppier game, he could have gotten the shield. But then again I would have had to settle for the award .... :rolleyes:

Before I even download the game. Yep, I have never played a Diety level game and I don't think I will win my first one. Hell, the last GOTM messed with me. I still enjoy the challenge and frustration though. Next GOTM should be a Warlord just to see how HIGH everyone can score. Hee hee hee.

This should be fun for a few hours until I get killed.

Has everyone noticed that CivAssist II is out? Will this EVER get boring?!?

but if it disturbs you I can remove it. :rolleyes:

Only as a teaser :drool: But anyway I will not play it till tomorrow even if it will be publiched now.

I noticed Civassist II. I even download it, but did not install it yet. I certainly will give it a try in this game.

Game's up, but solen's going to bed :p

Well, I normally just play the COTMs due to time. However, I'm already done with the latest one and can't pass up on Japan. Being deity and the fact that it would take 12 turns to mine the hill for only +1 shields initially, I'll just settle in place. Will either go after Pottery or Mysticism first.

But if there would ever be a vote about modding GOTMs my vote would be "No". The game is quite fascinating without the mods, IMHO.

That is my vote too!

Although I didn't submit a GOTM/COTM very often up to now I'm nevertheless trying to play every game. But this time I'm not able to play because of the mod and because of the fact that I'm playing the German version. There's no problem with the normal games but it's impossible to play with the mod.:cry:

So if you want to exclude players of versions other than the English/American one you are successfull!;) If not I think there should be no mods!!

Well, I uploaded an uncompressed shot of the same(ish) start with with an fp wheat 2S and 1E of the start location. Then my damn internet crashed most of yesterday before I could get this posted. :(

...anyways, if anyone wants to use it to compare that tile once they load up the save with this image of it, then feel free to use it. If it doesn't look exactly like that tile, then it's not a wheat.

File here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/2000warrior-gottm43-startcreated.jpg)

Hey Yakodi, I´m playing the darn german version, too. CivIV will definitly be the original english version for me!
Anyway, I managed to get the save running though (I know, I´m actually not allowed to post here then, but I only loaded it to see if it works). I installed a few mods - practically all of those available for GOTM, including the MedMod. Still I had to manually rename all .ini files and foldernames in the unit folder to get it going.
My civ3 folder looks a little messed up now, but I don´t care for that. I can still uninstall/install if it blows up completely.

Well I'm dusting off my old civ3 box. Haven't played a game of the month since GOTM 19. I'm really surprised to see a lot of the same old names around here. Too bad it's a deity game, guess I'm jumping in head first. I'll be happy with a victory since I know I won't score high. See you in the spoiler threads.

Welcome back, Shillen. I think you went into hiding about the time I started playing. Good luck!