SGOTM7 - Team Bede

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I hope you enjoy the game

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM7-Start.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Ottomans
World size - 80 wide by 80 high. (Small)
Difficulty - Deity
Landform - Archepelago
Barbarians - Roaming

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game. The SGOTM Reference thread contains all the files and links you need to install the small mod for PTW/C3C and rather larger mod for vanilla. There are test saves too so you can check your installation.

The GOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71788)
SGOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112722)
Upload Save to Server (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php)
Download Save from Server (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)


This Months' sponsored variant is Always War Deity (AWD) the rules for which are as follows.

1. You must declare war on each Civilisation by the end of the turn you make that contact.
2. You must remain at war with each Civilisation until the end of the game, or until that Civilisation is destroyed.
3. You may trade with a Civilisation on the turn you make contact and before declaring war, but you may not establish any embassies.
4. No turn based (gpt) deals are permitted.
5. You must win by Domination.

Note: PTW and Vanilla players are not permitted to leader rush Great Wonders Before the year 1000BC for this game.

Checking in.

Clambering aboard...

Ironically, I almost signed up for Bede in the signup thread, and now MB places me here. Let's kick butt!

Howdy guys!

AdmK and soul will show up soon I hope.

Looking forward to the acquisition of some territory. :rock on:

@eldar, can you play the first twenty (after suitable discussion of course)? With all those HoF games you're playing you should have those down cold.

:salute: checking in

Okay, first 20, once we have the save. Must-remember-we-are-not-Argicultural (I played 3 QSCs as the Maya yesterday...)

[Edit]
What we researching first? Alpha? Alpha-Writing-Lit/Phil+Lit (I'd only go for Phil first with no Com or Sea civs in the game) with a GLib pre-build in our first city would be my choice of line.

as usual im checking i, last but not least.
settle on the spot, worker to BG?
go for phil then lit?
GLib in 1st or 2nd city? will have to see more to know for sure.

ps-what are those quiggley things in the sea? fish?

Settling on spot, worker to Sheep (exactly the same as Cows), those things in the sea are Oysters (+2f, +1g), I have a sequence that pops 2 Warriors and a Settler by 3350BC.

Contrarian opinions highly encouraged.

Thoughts on the Starting location:

Settle in place, those sheep are just cows on plains, so first move is to irrigate em both. By the time thats done, move to the BG I suppose, but that may be in the middle of a fight with our first opponent so worker needs to be covered. The oyster is a just like a FISH in the normal game according to the gotm resources page. An eventual forest chop can be used SW looks like, but that would be around turn 25 if we do the above I think. Forest chop to be used for help on the rax?

Build thoughts: If we settle at the start, a warrior can be built at 3800. Alternatively we can go spear first, ready at (3650?). I like spear first. If we see any enemies that quick, it could be changed to a warrior if needed. Spear first allows us to get to a barracks quicker (assuming spear-spear-walls-barracks rather than warrior-spear-spear-walls-barracks). At some point thereafter we need to scout out our landmass, probably with curraghs and vet pillaging spear-scouts for the interior of the island. A w-w-settler start is a bit risky for my taste; though it makes me think we should skip the walls in the above build order for the settler. I would concur that the second or third settler would be our GL prebuild city.

I think we'll have 1-2 civs on our landmass.

Research: In regards to our first tech, an argument can be made for doing just about any of the first tier (+Iron working) with the exception of CB. I personally like WC for some archers, with alphabet a close second for some curraghs, and the Wheel would be very nice to acquire somehow. I think by the time we get those curraghs out, we can actively seek out our enemies, put them on war buildup, and hurt their research early, rather than avoid contact. By the time they get map making, ASSUMING they have a coastal passage to land on our landmass, we should be able to repel whatever they throw at us, even hoplites. A thought also is to intentionally not meet someone and allow ourselves a later tech trade.

Alphabet-writing-(philo)-Lit after that? I think we can pull monarchy out of the Library in the 500-1000 BC range, but I really dont know how fast everyone will research on an archi map like this, thats just a random guess.

We should trade away Masonry asap so our island sharers will hopefully build the Pyramids for us. Great Library+ captured Pyramids+ random other wonder (Lighthouse would be very very nice, IF we could take our people off troop buildup long enough, and not likely to happen w/ the AI build rates). Golden Age would be best the earlier the better once we get monarchy; waiting for Sipahi would not help us as much. In fact, I dont think we should even get to Sipahi if we play well, i.e. get the Lighthouse (no Astronomy needed), turn off research after chivalry (well it was never on with the GL boost I guess but figuratively speaking), and bang out knights and such. 3 move Sipahis will be less effective on islands. Of course, if the AI takes us to friggin metallurgy/chemistry before getting education, then we can toast em with our UU.

Gameplan:

Expand and take control of our starting island ASAP. Take a hopefully nearby statue of zeus. Raise and replace quite a bit but keep ToA on whatever island its found on. Buildup a 20% sword-20% defender-50% horse-10% cat army. Get knights and win the game. This may be optimistic, but M-B has said this game plays like an Emperor game, so I expect some breaks.

If no island opponents, we should get pottery and expand like crazy.

Ottos start with bronze. we will need lots of spears early. with luck we can trade for WC (which we need for rax right?). Iron, horses, math and the wheel are also important. We will need to do lots of self research. I wouldn't start a Glib prebuild before city 3 or 4. My research pref is IW then alpha.

I like killer's "spear-spear-walls-barracks" but "spear-spear-settler" is good too. Warriors are pretty useless as defenders and since it is AWD we can expect lots of AI warriors coming our way, if we have local neighbors, and we wnat to protect our improvements and workers and while AI warriors may not attack a warrior in a town they will attack a warrior in the open.

Minimize exploration to a quick circuit of the immediate neighborhood (first ring of fog)as at Deity we will meet the neighbors soon enough.

A single dinghy to scout for close by sea lanes and involve the other islands in warfare will be nice too.

Run research at max towards Literature as we can probably get WC from the neighbors in the intro trade before we tell them we are going to use their guts for garters.

'kay. So pointy sticks good, dumb ol' bare-chests bad. I'll put the math in the grinder, er spreadsheet, and see what comes out, but we can certainly get a spear quick - those cows-disguised-as-sheep are powerful tiles in Despotism.

I'm just gonna throw out some points I thought about beforehand .

- If we explore much more than our immediate area early (very early), we may have to face the AI's starting unit stack (bad). I wouldn't explore more than the first ring, but this is debateable.

- If we are on an island, and if there are no viking, we can be 100% safe until Marines by lining the island with warrior and even leaving no units in cities. This is big if there is vikings.

- 3 major AA units are spear/catapult/horses (if resource available). Upgrade these throughout the game.

- I have 2 shot-in-the-dark guesses about landmass (which are probably wrong). 1. an island hopping archiapalego, lots of little islands. 2. us near 1-2 civs, with the others far (suicide galley) away.

- 2 wonders which may be invaluable are Great Library and Great Lighthouse. Definitely need to try for one of them. Hopefully a high production location nearby.

- definitely start on alphabet as philosophy,literature,map making, and republic will be huge. The wheel would be really nice though (hopefully get it in a trade).

- I think I agree to build 2 spear before settler. this will raise the production/size of capitol.

- Feel free to stop if you feel something should be discussed.

- It seems that the most important thing is whether or not someone is on our homeland. It's rex (expansion) vs. military in this case.

- other most important thing - have fun :D .

A lot of the points I agree and disagree with will really depend on the opening factors. Surrounding land, nearby enemies, etc. All my opinions are subject to change :lol: .

As are my opinions. Hopefully if we have a couple AIs on our island we can keep our left flank secure and make them attack across that river.

Hmm. Can we have Beorn-eL-Feared come along and support us, or something?! He just got 3 MGLs in one 10-turn set in eldar04. Now if the RNG is that kind to us....

Like spear, spear, settler. MB said this plays like emperor, so we should have time to get city 2 up.

Spear, spear, settler gets us our 2nd city in 3000BC.
We will have 14 shields towards either walls, rax, or another spear by 3000BC as well.
If we wanted, we could've researched pottery by then as well.

Spear, spear, settler gets us our 2nd city in 3000BC.
We will have 14 shields towards either walls, rax, or another spear by 3000BC as well.
If we wanted, we could've researched pottery by then as well.
builds seem good.
i also think some minor exploration will be needed (1st ring only) as we wont want any nasty surprises.
wonders - \g\lib and\or GLight would be great, but if i must choose (and its very hard to choose) i would go for the Great Light, as we can research ourselves if we must, and the lighter will prove very effective blocking and controling the AI.

Hmm. Can we have Beorn-eL-Feared come along and support us, or something?! He just got 3 MGLs in one 10-turn set in eldar04. Now if the RNG is that kind to us....
and as i played before Bjorn and didnt land any MGL's....
im off to the temple. the RNG Gods require a fat sheep be sacrificed.

Spear Numero Uno will be for exploring, and will head back to base ASAP. If he meets anyone, he will say hi, rob them of all of their technology and gold, spit in their face, and do whatever seems appropriate. Probably run right back home.

Spear Numero Duo will of course escort our brave settler.

Can I lurk this game?? I don't want to impose opinions and m-b never assigned me to a team as designated spectator as he's busy enough.

Two spears and a town by 3000, the man has a plan.

And welcome TR...comments always welcome, but if you do, don't view any other threads, please.

I was waiting on a response before I took further action. I haven't opened the other threads yet and won't now. Thanks for having me. I just finished reading through everything.

Opened starting save and opponents are as follows:

civ - Starting tech -
India - Alpha, CB
Zulu - WC, Pots
Arabia - Pots, CB
Persia - BW, Masonry
Vikings - WC, Alpha
America - Pots, Masonry

Opened starting save and opponents are as follows:

civ - Starting tech -
India - Alpha, CB
Zulu - WC, Pots
Arabia - Pots, CB
Persia - BW, Masonry
Vikings - WC, Alpha
America - Pots, Masonry


Those seem to be some weaker civs there. Vikings though are the ones who will be sailing around to possibly meet us and they have alphabet :hmm: . There are 3 EXP civs which won't do them much good on an archiapalego. Religious isn't really a benefit on diety either.

I'm kinda hoping we're sharing with Abu. Two techs we don't have, and both the cheapest out there. We should be able to buy even at Deity rates. And no WC or BW of course so only warriors and a scout - which if he's unlucky he'll lose almost immediately.

Perversely, I wouldn't mind sharing with the Vikes. They may start with Archers, but we'll be rid of them before they get seriously nasty.

Let the games begin.

eldar, take it away.

And if we have to have neighbors I would like Abu and the Vikes as well.

Zulu will be annoying, Persia would be a royal pain. And don't forget that culture monsters like India can cause great anguish in a Deity game.

All plans change upon contact with the enemy... in this case it was 3750BC and whilst they were on the other side of water, I got a little more cautious than was probably necessary.

>>Le Save<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_BC3000_01.SAV)

0 4000 Settle in place, there's a 3rd Sheep by the river but it's the wrong side for now, and not available 'til after expansion. Worker N to the first Sheep, research 100% towards Alphabet. Start building a Spear.

1 3950 Worker irrigates.

4 3800 Worker roads.

5 3750 A Zulu warrior has popped his head out from across the water. Masonry+BW+1g gets us Pottery+WC, and I declare on him. He is also up CB.

6 3700 Worker NW.

IT: Spear->Spear.

7 3650 Spear fortifies. I can't tell if the Zulu are connected by land to us yet, and it'll be embarassing if they are… Worker irrigates.

IT: city growth.

9 3550 IT: Culture growth.

10 3500 Worker roads.

IT: Spear->Settler.

11 3450 Spearo heads off south.

12 3400 Spearo south again, revealing some Incense. Worker SE,S.

13 3350 Worker mines. Spearo SW onto Olives.

IT: growth to 3.

14 3300 Lux to 10%. Spearo one more S. Heads back next turn to pick up the Settler.

15 3250 Spearo back N.

IT: Settler->Rax.

16 3200 Spear+Settler S. Spearo N.

17 3150 Worker roads. Settler pair SE. Spearo N.

18 3100 Spearo NE back into Istanbul. Settler pair S, couple of barb warriors camped on a mountain…

19 3050 Worker S. Spearo fortifies. Edrine founded, starts Walls.

20 3000 Worker irrigates. Barbs fortify on the incense. Not much exploring but then the very quick contact got me jumpy. Next player should be able to get something built to go explore? Istanbul can pull another spear instead of the rax maybe.

Edrine is behind a river, no hills except the Olives 1-turn roaded walk away. We do have a lot of good food+shield bonus tiles though.

Looks good Eldar.

That would be scary if Zulu are on our land :eek: . My guess is Mr. Bax put the Zulu close on a nearby island so they'd pop up in everybody's game.

I would change walls in Endrine to another spearman. A wall would be nice, but you never know when we need another unit.

I'd use tight spacing and place the next city on the hill NW of incense, which we could hook up faster.. We could move units fast because it's on the opposite side of the river. It's got floodplains and bonus resources, and it's on a hill

My openings are usually lame so I'm staying relatively quiet.

Somebody go over the download rules for me. Do I have to download from mad bax's site if I just want to look at the save? Is it okay to load eldar's? When I pick up the game, do I go from this thread or from mad bax's?

Is that one hell of a big river SW of Erdine or is that salt water?

Finally, it appears mad bax may be being evil - all islands "close" so that the Big Bulb won't matter?

Finally (for real this time), although tight is good in AW, IMHO, the next city should go E of the GH (if that is indeed a river)

E of the GH is good, dems flood plains down there.
The save linked to is the official one I uploaded (when you submit the save, you get given a link to copy back to the thread).

Very nice job. I vote 3 SE of capital for city 3 and AK's floodplains location for city 4. Its great we got WC and pottery this quickly.

Erdrine looks like a good Library city.

One thing I learned from Handy is that when playing AW, a lucky candle is needed. Since Team Grumpy is probably using handy's, I thought we should have our own. In true idiot fashion, igor brought home the biggest lucky candle he could find. I hope we live through the lighting of our "lucky" candle.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Team_bede_candle.jpg

blame this on eldar's signature ;)

OT - What did Lee say before the surrender at Appomatox? I've got an elementary school concert to attend for the next 2 hours. :mischief:

I think you are tight, killer, but I won't be able to comment in any detail for another three hours or so.

Istanbul should gets its rax soonest and Erdrine its walls. It may be that Istanbul doesn't need walls, given its placement. But in any case Istanbul is our settler farm and troop training facility for the foreseeable future.

Edit: wrong thread

E of the GH is good. I have zero experience in AW so I was thinking the hill defence would be good.

How do you suggest we handle the GH? Pop it with a spear or found the city beside it with a spear escort?

Popping the hut with a city founding will not get yokels, I think, so best to do it that way.

Since we seem to have a sound plan, who wants it next?

Actually, it can still pop barbarians. It's happened to me and confirmed at a post in the strategy section a while ago.

E of GH will have the following tiles
2f, 2s, 1g - mountains with goat on river
4f, 1g - FP wheat before irrigation
2f, 1s, 1g - olives on hill

That's a pretty good start for a settler factory if we start a raze-replace strat.

Istanbul is already a Military+Settler-factory potential.
With a 'rax it can do an 8-turn cycle finishing with a settler timed to growth (no granary, a waste of 60 shields in this variant, really).

No volunteers for second slot?

Then here is the rotation:

killercane - up and at 'em
Meteor - on the deck
Bede
Admiral K
soul_warrior
edlar - got us going

It's hard to tell in eldar's watercolor graphix, but that's jungle 1 SE of Edrine and a bigger patch 2 S. The good news is that there is grassland underneath (according to CA II). Most of the forests are over plains but there are a couple covering grassland. Bede borders on tree-hugging in civ ;) so IF you decide to chop I'd select the one that has the grassland instead of plains.

Got it. Got it.

Chop the forests! Our enemies will cower in them and gain defensive bonuses. Rid them of trees to create killing fields instead!

Chop the forests! Our enemies will cower in them and gain defensive bonuses. Rid them of trees to create killing fields instead!

YO....Lumberjack away. We need the shields and the open ground.

good start eldar.
that hut should be pop'd via the settler plopping. just rememeber to bring pointy along with him.
that city, E is good.

note to self - change subscription to Instant mail and not daily. im missing too much here.
ok - did that. fire away... and chop souy, toots sweet, please. i need to get to the Ramada hotel in Zimbabwe STAT.

The Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_BC2550_01.SAV.

No forestry operations in these ten. We can hopefully get them done in the next set.

3000- Nothing to do but enter.

IT- Barbs roam around aimlessly.

2950- Alph in 9. Barbs leave radius of Erdrine.

IT- Barbs fortify, I hope they dont go for our worker.

2900- 2 barbs step north going for our worker. Decide to switch walls to a warrior so we have a covering unit. Worker is roading to connect Erdrine.

2850- Warrior done and fortified. Set to walls in Erdrine. Spear moves up to cover worker.

2800- Barbs leave.

2750- Meet India in the North. They have alph and CB; we have 9 gold, no techs to trade them, and alph due in 3, so no deal. Declare on them. Barracks is done in Istanbul, set to spear in 3. Road is done; I now debate the forest chop (i hadnt read the posts above yet); I decide to road and irrigate SE of Istanbul for city 3.

2710-Worker irrigates the plains. No enemy units have reared their heads near us yet. The Indian warrior is running around on the northern island.

2670- Alph reset to get 3 gold.

2630- Spear done. Set to settler. Writing is chosen at min. +9 gpt.

IT- We win a battle vs. barbs @ Erdrine.

2590- Status quo maintained.

2550- Indian borders touch ours N of Istanbul. Settler is due in 2 in Istanbul and walls due in 1 at Erdrine. A barb is poised to attack. We need a spear in Erdrine soon. We are making +10 gpt using the oyster.

Thoughts and Discussion Points

-Do we really need walls in Erdrine? It looks like our Great Library city, so we'll want to grow it up over size 7 soon anyway. It can be supplied with spears from Istanbul quickly and no one has shown up to threaten our cities yet either. It can be switched to a spear for now, forest chop for an archer or spear (only reg however), and then start on the palace.

-Might we spit out an archer after the settler? We need to get get rid of these annoying barbs somehow.

-Do we really need walls in Erdrine? It looks like our Great Library city, so we'll want to grow it up over size 7 soon anyway. It can be supplied with spears from Istanbul quickly and no one has shown up to threaten our cities yet either. It can be switched to a spear for now, and then start on the palace.
I'd say to switch it to an archer instead of a spear. with the barbs so close, he'll get promoted pretty quick hopefully. Then start a Library in the guise of a Palace.
-Might we spit out an archer after the settler? We need to get get rid of these annoying barbs somehow.I'd go curraph instead of archer or spear. we need to figure out what our landmass looks like

Dot map for discussion using CA II (<--I like it, a lot)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Team_Bede_dot_map2550bc.jpg

Good call on the curragh after the settler. I certainly second that motion.

I agree with changing the walls as well.

I'm kinda curious as to how much discussion should be inbetween people's turns. We're in no rush really, and something may be gained from someone's thoughts on the situations...or not :p . But I'll a wait little until going.

I looked at the file and there is only a warrior in Endrine. spear or archer definitely.

As pointed out, Istanbul can become some type of settler factory:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede7_01.gif

Holy crap. We could build a granary and pump out settlers every 4 turns. I didn't realize this. There is a BG that needs mining, but it would work. But seeing that this is AW, we should really squeeze units out between the settlers.

Meteor, discussion is pretty much as needed. If you are in the Xteam, they jabber on about something all of the time. Other teams really are just a collection of individual players. I'd say so far the discussion has been about right. NOTE Just if you get into trouble in your turns there is no shame and its actually encouraged to stop playing (saving the game or whatever you need to do) and consult the team. Sometimes things arise during turnsets that you might not have thought about.

Also looking down the road.....What about going to Fuedalism. Keeping all cities 6 or under pop.

Pros: No building maintenance, good unit support for small towns
Cons: War weariness <-Oh nevermind. That will kill us. Sorry just stream of consciencness....

i will add my meagre voice to Killer's and Tubby's in going for a canoe.

i also think Edrine should squeeze out an archer for barb duty, and then do only growth and palace for our Glib.
rethinking... adjusting... :scan: maybe try and use those woods around Edrine for some unit chops? it would give us some free shields, a killing zone. and we wont be able to use the chops for the GLIB, right? might aswell chop now.

@ killer - im not so clear on one thing. are the Injuns on OUR landmass or not? ok - rechecking the pic i see we have some water around, but i still dont like the western part.

i would send the canoe over to that side, just to make sure we wont be surprised soon.

cities on the drawing board - blue then green?

As I mentioned, a granary and just settlers every 4 turns out of Istanbul is a waste of shields. Forego the granary, and set up an 8-turn cycle of units, ending with a settler.

(At 5-7, it's a 4-turn warrior+settler pump, but what use are all those warriors going to be? no good as escorts vs. angry enemies, and will cost a packet to upgrade later on)

cities on the drawing board - blue then green? That was my assumption too. I just wanted to give people a point of reference in case they needed to move 1E or 1 SW, etc.

I also agree that an easterly wind should blow our boat to the west.

@ meteor punch If you are able to play by all means, go ahead.

As eldar said, do NOT build granaries anywhere. start curraph and send west once settler finishes in Istanbul. Convert Edrine walls to an Archer before you hit enter then start palace (forests can bu used for green city infra & units). play whack a barb once you get confortable with some offensive units.

Lots o' discussion is always good. Lord knows if the Elephant riders are on our land, we'll soon find out. I would think a couple of forest chops pre-prebuild would be good at erdrine, but we only have one lonely worker, when does he get a friend you think?

I'm playing now. what after archer? walls, barracks, palace prebuild, spear?

I vote for worker-forest chop-spear-palace after the archer in erdrine. On city placement, I was thinking green SE of Istanbul first and then blue SW of Erdrine, but vice versa works too. My thinking here was SE first is a little bit easier to defend in a pinch, but blue is a better city site. I think we'll go along with whatever you decide MP.

2550

IT
Endrine builds archer

2510
Archer kills barbarian. promotes to veteran.
I need unit animations guys. All 5 unit animations were off. I will turn these on for my turns.

2470

2430
A barb camp has sprung up on the mountains to the West. I now suspect we're on an island full of barbs.
minor epic tragedy - 3/4 archer loses to 2hp barb warrior (on forest, across river).
I'm sending 3/3 Spearo from Istanbul to cover.


2390

2350

IT
2 barbs are killed.

2310
Bursa founded and we get a warrior from the GH...whew!

2270

2230
omg how lame. 3/3 archer loses to 2 hp barb warrior (on forrest, *not* across river). :mad:

2190

2150

- In typical braindead behavior, I forgot about chopping the forest. This means we lose perhaps a bonus grassland.
- I started Endrine as the GL prebuild. Change it if necessary.
- No signs of invasion from India or Zulu, just a bunch of barbs.
- Worker is roading to Bursa on the incense hill. Done in 4 turns.
- Here's an overview of the land:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mp71.gif
SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_BC2150_01.SAV)

We need to get that pre-build up soon. The AI only have to accumulate 60% of the shields that we do and GL is going to be a key wonder in this game along with Sun Tsu's

xpost: Good job, MP. Archers are pretty cheap and can be recovered later. We just have to be smart with them. Personally I'd leave the prebuild where it i and let it come in when it comes in.

There looks to be a crossing between islands in the NE if we want to persue other civs. We might need to get the seafaring civs in war build up mode in order to distract them from the GL.

Can we get the fortified spear to kill that 1 hp barb and explore east of the BG? We might need to get ready for the yellowcoats and perhaps modify our placement of a city over there. Boy a chokepoint would be fantastic.

-Looking to the future I dont see any mountain/hill insertion points onto the indian landmass.

The spear would be the same as having a warrior try to take it on. I think that it's worth the risk.

Also why are we doing a min run on Writing. That needs to be burning it's way to lit correct?? I'm not sure about this but I think that it's something worth increasing especially since we have 111 in the bank and are running a positive cash flow. If you bump it up to 80% (due to the 20% lux) we'll be dropping 14 bpt in the bucket instead of just 2. Please change this....

Roster:
edlar
killercane
Meteor - just played
Bede - venerably up
Admiral K - on deck & just back from the idiot convention in TR04
soul_warrior

14 beakers per wont get you there any faster on deity if no one else has writing. You need roughly 18-20 per. You are right that we should check writing's status often however to see if we can get it in sooner, ie someone else gets it/we are able to generate more science. As of right now however, we have no granary and not enough cities to generate much more science.

The newly founded city would easily support a few scientists in a little while with those floodplains. However, getting to lit quickly isnt necessarily imperative, as our palace prebuild must accumulate 400 shields as well. Lit can be turned up to max when we get there. I think we're fine.

tough break on the barbie dolls MP, but like tubby said - no biggie.

also by tubby - more beakers in, please. i would hate it if we lost it by a turn or something. (how long is the ETA in Edrine on the Lib anyway? maybe we DONT need to up rearch?

about that spear killing barbs... with the recent streak of "great" luck i would wait for a nother archer.

Agree with needing more beakers.
We have, what, 30 in the bucket now? We might've had over 100, not to be sniffed at.

[Edit] Writing in 16 @ 80%. In 38 otherwise. Suggests it would've been less than 50 to start with. Indeed the Zulus know it.

[Edit] Writing in 16 @ 80%. In 38 otherwise. Suggests it would've been less than 50 to start with. Indeed the Zulus know it.

wow, I never checked. my bad.

Just got home. and oh crap. Not from any gameplay rather from the lay of the land.

I skimmed through the posts and one thing strikes me - the team appears to be thinking very conventionally. this is AWD, things are going to get nasty very quickly. We're going to get incoming Impi very quickly. A worker farm is not going to have utility unless we can generate 2 spears every 4 turns to escort the settler.

Civ Assist II says the Zulu have writing, estimated cost 246 so we should be able to get it quite a bit sooner. Turning up science would probably work out well. Lit is estimated at 333 right now.

Edit: crossposted my bad. AK is right, the Zulus have writing, Maps are not far behind as they'll zoom right for that. We need to get that city down and military it up for a bit. We really need to know if we're connected to the Zulu landmass so exploration east of BG is needed.

And MP I take full responsibility for setting the min to writing. Nothings hurt too bad however, since @ 2550 we had writing @ 27 turns +1 gpt, and now that Tubby and Eldar put everyone on the fast track we're to it in 16.

The Zulu do very much worry me; Impi, archers and maybe horses are not so good. If they're on our landmass we're gonna have a hard time balancing the fight with them and defending our workers from barbs while we improve Erdrine.

If the Zulu were on our continent, they'd have paid us a visit by now, surely? Given we met in 3750BC and traded them BW.

Well I would think but I do hate surprises. M-B is a crazy guy judging from his other maps.

@ all - suggestion - check out HNDY14. AWD is a little weird. The AI will ignore spears on mountains and move around them to attack cities from grassland rather than dislodge the spear and attack from the mountain. IMIO, tis better to be tactially smart than conventionally playing.

We need math. of course we will need to conduct experiments to determine if it is better to throw stones or shamen... :crazyeye:

It may depend on how soon map making is discovered. If they land 2 Impi at a time, that can be tough to kill with archer. We may need some catapults. Of course by the itme the Impi land, we'll probably be getting visits by all sorts of other civs invasion forces :eek: . Some horses and iron would be nice to find, if we have those techs.

forgive the double post, but the more I look at the map screenies, the more I'm convinced the big bulb will have no utility in this game.

I would think a philo run is out, no?

Edit: We've gone through 30 something posts in the last 5 hours since Bede was last on here and 2 turnsets, maybe we should hold off on going any farther for now for some discusson? On the other hand, brainstorming after Bedester goes would probably give us more information to work off of. Team leader?

Since the venerable one is up, there's no harm in giving him something to think about by brainstorming. He's old, but I think his domestic advisors read to him while feeding him. :lol: I'll shortly be away for at least three hours or until tomorrow.

forgive the double post, but the more I look at the map screenies, the more I'm convinced the big bulb will have no utility in this game.

Yeah, I think survival will be more important for awhile. 300 shields will be better spent towards expansion and military.

philo does seem to have hit the wall.
i think that like AK said, stop thinking like we are used to.
we WILL get visits SOON. my guess is in the next 15-20 or so. seeing that shaka has writing and will head for maps, i thnk this ETA is acceptable.
so lets calculate on 10 turns.
that will give us time to squueze out another settler and some defenders (and i mean a mix of bow-spears)
after that - my guess is a s good as any.
i say start holing up in 10-15, advancing slowing with as much covering fire as possible.
i may be over caucious, though.

i may be over caucious, thoughnot at all. Think double spears then bows. Oh BTW, better have spears and bows to cover the workers... :devil:

For discussion - what do we do with the first leader?

not at all. Think double spears then bows. Oh BTW, better have spears and bows to cover the workers... :devil:
yep, one to hold them and one to rule them all....

For discussion - what do we do with the first leader?
we cant rush the GLIB, right ;)
maybe an army? getting a winning army would be very nice.
what to load it with, though? i would go for a defensive army. we will get more later that we can use offensively, and our direst need now is for defense, not offense.

Meteor, discussion is pretty much as needed. If you are in the Xteam, they jabber on about something all of the time. Other teams really are just a collection of individual players.
well, i had to check.
the jive score as of 2 minutes ago is Xteam 72 - Team Bede 82.
we are clearly in the lead, and not even into the end of the first quarter. :lol:

-If we had a leader right NOW, I would say FP for extra production and to get it out of the way.

-If we get it when they start landing troops en mass, I would say horse army to gallivant around and cover those places that need to be covered.

-If no horses, then maybe spears.

Most likely to happen I figure:

-We wont have HBR when first leader comes, use spears. Use that army to kill an archer or something, promote our archers on the barbarians, generate another leader for the Epic, and then the FP w/ the third as we'll be getting close to OCN.

Lessons from Uncle Handy:

Spears are the most effective troop build right now. There will be no offensive action for a while yet.

Getting a picture of the local landmass is real important. Since we have had no visitors other than barbs I am assuming we are home alone. Otherwise there would have been fewer barbarians and more Impis or Indian archers/warriors.

If we are going for the Book Bindery than a pre-build needs to start RSN. Yet burning the treasury to get to Literature may not be the wisest course. It definitely needs to be timed to the shield accumulation at Erdrine.

Istanbul looks to be set up as a good troop factory/worker/settler factory and farm.

I need to pick up the save before going any further. More later.

First thing I did was crank up the science slider to get Writing in 16 @-1, then used the forted spear to whack the crippled barb, then changed the production order at Istanbul to an archer. I would rather have the vet archer for barb supression and get some more growth at Istanbul before building another settler.

Noticed the yellow border to the east, so the Zulu must be over that way. I am going to sashay that spear that way just to make sure they are not on our island.

Getting the road down to the incense and then start improving the terrain at Erdrine was a good move.

Depending on what I find in the hinterlands east Bursa could be a full time worker/Spear producer once the barracks is up, leaving Istanbul to produce spears/settlers.

And here is another map for you all to chew on while I play out ten

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/BedeMap.jpg

I am going to suggest that we slow down the pace of play a little while keeping the level of discussion high. The enthusiasm is great, but let's temper it just a little.

Now you know why I try to wait. can you sharpen that screenie? it's really blurry and i'm too scared of a possible rules violation to d-load a save... BTW - the shading thingy is cool although I have no clue about the meaning. Yes, I've been drinking (again) :crazyeye:


we're winning the post race so far. :bounce: :bounce:

Orange shade looks good for taking on the brunt of the Zulu attacks. It will need to be heavily fortified being 3 moves from the capitol. Is it on a hill?

sashay that spear that way I'm not sure I'm secure enough to play in a game with sashaying going on. :lol: BTW, I'm shamelessly padding the count on the way to 2K. The team needs to tell me when to shut up. Let's go find IW kill AI

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_BC1750_01.SAV)

In 2110 fight off a barb at Bursa then get this message:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede_2110_00.jpg

In 2070 discover the Zulu are on the other island. So I dispatch the archer south to bust some more fog.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede_2070_00.jpg
And everybody we know starts the Oracle and the Pyramids.

In 2030 we get some really good news.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede_2030_00.jpg

And I have found another city site with spices handy which will also bring some more production into the Erdrine radius.

In 1990 whack a barb camp with the wandering spear and collect some more gold.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede_1990_00.jpg

Note another border to the SE.

The south is chock full of barbarian villages.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede_1910_01.jpg

So our brave archer busts a village and gets Bactrians.

He survives the Bactrian attack and then the warrior MP from Istanbul busts the barb on the road to Istanbul.

Curragh confirms that we are home alone with the barbarians.

In 1830 Istanbul produces a settler who heads south to the Spice jungle.

Circassians attack our archer who kills them then in 1790 he goes forward and busts the other camp.

Sarbadar warriors at Bursa promote the spear to veteran, I switch Bursa from Barracks to Granary.

In 1750 kill the last Circassian warrior in the south and the settler and spear step into the jungle.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Bede_1750_00.jpg

Another intersting M-B layout.

We need to stay away from the cultural borders to our east and north. Cultural conversions will be a royal pain as they will give the opponents a free foothold.

Pushing our settlements to the NW and protecting those coastlines are priorities. The curragh is sentried in the southern strait within sight of the borders down there but not close enough for contact.

This is not your standard AWD. With no one on the island until Map Making we have an opportunity to expand. And when they do land it will not be in overwhelming strength. So we should have an opportunity to develop the land and get some serious production going. The downside is that we will not be able to do anything to check the other nations, and we will not have the opportunity for leader spawning until they do.

I am of two minds about what to build at Bursa. A granary would be really nice for a worker farm, though it may be that we need the workers faster than the granary can be built.

And we can forget about the Great Lightbulb. The straits are no more than a single tile wide.

Istanbul needs to be maintained at pop5 for maximum efficiency, while Erdrine needs to work the sheep to the north for growth and shields.

Zulu still hold the monopoly on writing and iron working as far as I can see.

Afraid I burned a worker turn by moving to the second incense hill south of Erdrine. :(

Roster check:
Admiral K - you're up
soul_warrior - on deck
eldar - got us going
killercane - got the stone further up the hill
Meteor - pushed it even further
Bede - changed the plan a little

Good exploring. Looks like we go into rapid expansion mode. Like SW said though, we will probably be getting invaded possibly within the next turnset, so we need some combination of units to defeat them, or absorb hits.

Should we plant units everywhere so no barbs? We could use the barbs to level up, but if we get invaded, we might not want to deal with barbs.

@Bede: are you sure that's not a landbridge/chokepoint in the darkness in the last pic under the word Endrine??

It might be but I highly doubt it. I heartily agree on the jungly spicy city placement and expansion NW. It looks like the granary in Bursa could be helped by two forest chops.

@Bede: are you sure that's not a landbridge/chokepoint in the darkness in the last pic under the word Endrine??

Given that the Zulu are in that direction and we have seen nothing but barbarians come from there I don't think so. But I am not sure, so it will make sense to verify.

looks like ill have a very busy set on my hands soon.
so the plan is?
1) get GLib, scratch the bulb
2) expand north, avoiding the shores and culture borders
3) cranking out DEFENSE for now and bracing for the impeding hordes
4) no leader in sight, so no plan yet.
5) worker farm in Bursa. we might need them now but will surely need them later.

anything i left out?

Just had a thought here based on my cotm12. If we get a great leader, the first option should be a FP rush if the FP is a ways off.

If we build an army now, it could only be used for island defense, in which 3 separate units may be more useful. Otherwise, the army cannot be transported until Galleons. By then, a spear/swords/archer army won't be too useful for crushing cities

But on the other hand, getting an army victory/Heroic Epic early could be huge.

I voted to play Conquest vs. PtW based on the power of armies vs. a second Ring (FP), so getting the Heroic Epic going would be vital.

Keys for the game at this point:
1. Fill the island with cities.
2. Prebuild Great Library.
3. Build Libraries. (I haven't heard this discussed yet. It will be extremely important as we will have to do all of our own research in this game. Additionally, it adds culture vs. flips)
4. Build Forbidden Palace.
5. Level up units vs. barbs?

Like MP's ideas. Map Making isn't too far off for the AI. Hopefully we have the resource for a mobile defensive force. HBR is going to be more important for containing the invasions than math. what should I research after writing? Play tonight.

If we build an army now, it could only be used for island defense, in which 3 separate units may be more useful. Otherwise, the army cannot be transported until Galleons. By then, a spear/swords/archer army won't be too useful for crushing cities


Bingo!


But on the other hand, getting an army victory/Heroic Epic early could be huge.


This is a MIL nation, no? Getting leaders from combat should not be a problem once the neighbors come knocking on our shores



Keys for the game at this point:
1. Fill the island with cities.
2. Prebuild Great Library.
3. Build Libraries. (I haven't heard this discussed yet. It will be extremely important as we will have to do all of our own research in this game. Additionally, it adds culture vs. flips)
4. Build Forbidden Palace.
5. Level up units vs. barbs?


Perzactly.

One more point: if we can delay contact south and east until we have trade bait for the opening negotiations it may help.


looks like ill have a very busy set on my hands soon.
so the plan is?
1) get GLib, scratch the bulb
2) expand north, avoiding the shores and culture borders
3) cranking out DEFENSE for now and bracing for the impeding hordes
4) no leader in sight, so no plan yet.
5) worker farm in Bursa. we might need them now but will surely need them later.


10-4, good buddy.


Map Making isn't too far off for the AI. Hopefully we have the resource for a mobile defensive force. HBR is going to be more important for containing the invasions than math. what should I research after writing? Play tonight.


I feel like I should know the answer to that, but I don't. The Book Bindery Build is proceeding apace and we are able to build cash even at max research and that will get better with the second luxury and more towns.

A bee line to Literature may be contra-indicated (Glib timing) and the other nations will research HBR for us. Catapults will play a big role in controlling attacks on the towns. This is still about defense and wounded attackers will be easier to deal with. And an off shore expedition with cats and spears will be pretty powerful for pillaging.

Just thought about something. Those purplish color borders are Arabia & Persia is just below them. After we get writingin on turn 7 of the next set, make contact with those civs and trade it for whatever they've got. The Zulus might have already taught them how to write but it might be worth the risk. I'd hold off on making contact with them until we need to trade or GL is available.


Zulu already have Math. I wonder if they have ivory.....


BTW, A-K, Those shadings on Bede's first picture is the territory shadings option that is part of CivAssist II. You can turn it on or off, but the colors will be distinct for each city unless you are colorblind :crazyeye:

Sorry for the 2x post, but a turn can be shaved off of writing by bumping sci up to 100% for 2 turns then drop it drop to maintain the current number of turns & save cash.

Currently 93 beakers left to go:
100% = 17 beakers
90% = 15 beakers
80 % = 14 beakers <-current setting

This is a MIL nation, no? Getting leaders from combat should not be a problem once the neighbors come knocking on our shores
Ottomans are IND & SCI

sorry for the 3x post

My apologies, posting is the only way I can figure out to subscribe to this thread. Sorry for the interruption. Couldn't figure out how to subscribe without posting.

Good game!

My apologies, posting is the only way I can figure out to subscribe to this thread. Sorry for the interruption. Couldn't figure out how to subscribe without postingFYI: Threads can be subscribed to by clicking the "Thread Tools" drop down to the right of the screen just above the first post on the page.


EDIT::: didn't want an entire page of my posts so I'm gonna edit this one. I was just looking @ the shield situation, we are only collecting 5 shields per turn after waste in Edrine. Is there any way that anyone can see that it can be helped? BTW, I'm going to be going away from Friday to Sunday so no input from me for this weekend. I'm the same as A-K, if I get annoying let me know to shut up!

Erdrine will be be able to do 20+ shields when it gets up to snuff however, before corruption, which shouldnt be THAT bad. Supplied with workers from the worker farm will get it up to size.

I think that we need to do IW and then Lit. There has to be iron on our island, I dont think MB would be that depraved. Put Istanbul on warrior duty if it can get to 10 spt. Build 10-15 warriors, cut off research at lit, hook up the iron, 600-900 gold later we are invulnerable to invasion. Warriors can be deployed east of erdrine on the mountain for promotion and scouting, in the NW to stop barbs from popping (it will be a while before thats settled), and along the coast around Istanbul to prevent landings on our valuable tiles.

Get a barracks in spice city and warriors and archers out of there.

I realize that we might be under attack before we accumulate that much gold, but warriors can just get in the way of invaders, and hopefully start the Zulu golden age soon. The sooner they have their GA the better. This is a somewhat radical plan. It will be a bit touch and go until 800 or so BC, but if we delay contact with Arabs and Persia (accordign to Tubby), we only have the Zulu and crappy AI landing techniques to deal with. Indians wont be a factor for a while.

Once Istanbul gets to 10 spt, a forest chop will get us a granary in 5 turns. I think it is worth it before we settle the NW.

Zulu already have Math. I wonder if they have ivory.....


I didn't think the SoZ would be enabled in this game, but maybe it will :eek: .

I didn't think the SoZ would be enabled in this gameI don't remember M-B saying otherwise so I'm assuming that it is. Just because vanilla & PTW are in this competion too doesn't mean that the C3C wonders are dimmed out. They should be there.

I like killercane's idea. Make Bursa a worker factory to improve and join to Endrine. Istanbul can build settlers and spears.

I would go for IW before Lit if I was 100% sure it would be in good timing, but there are so many factors (the growth of Endrine, which tiles will be roaded/mined, how much our overall science will increase, etc) that it would be very hard to tell.

I would go for IW before Lit if I was 100% sure it would be in good timing, but there are so many factors (the growth of Endrine, which tiles will be roaded/mined, how much our overall science will increase, etc) that it would be very hard to tell.eldar, do you have a spreadsheet for this.... You are the best person I know at planning this type of thing.

playing soon. Going to take tubby's advice about the trades and see what develops. South of Hlobane, there is a forest. It is NE of a mountain. I'm going to build a city there. With border expansion it will pull 3 BG. I'm going to road to that city and then park units outside of it for as long as possible. Some famous guy said "He who defends all, defends nothing" or some such hooey. But, it appears we have just such a situation here. Hopefully the AI invaders will be drawn to it like flies on sh**. This little excercise has led me to reverse my thinking and go writing -> math -> lit. We'll probably want at least 6 cats parked in Bait City (yes I've already decided on a name even though the ultrasound wasn't really clear, although Pile of Dung is a strong second)

@ TR - thanks for the assist on assist II.

I am now going to have igor go fetch Civassist II and test it on an epic game which may be my shot for HOF. (Dutch, 60% continents, popped SGL, own leo's, Artemis, GLib, Templars, Zeus

I will probably check in before playing later.

eldar, do you have a spreadsheet for this.... You are the best person I know at planning this type of thing.

20 turns at the start of a game with 1 city and 1 worker are easy... as you said, there are a few more variables to take into account. At some point I'll take a look.

Might as well point out I'll be out of town from tomorrow until Monday afternoon (no 'net except dial-up, only my family, my wife and her Mac to keep me company and I've not re-installed Civ on it since she upgraded to Tiger).

playing soon. Going to take tubby's advice about the trades and see what develops. South of Hlobane, there is a forest. It is NE of a mountain. I'm going to build a city there. With border expansion it will pull 3 BG. I'm going to road to that city and then park units outside of it for as long as possible. Some famous guy said "He who defends all, defends nothing" or some such hooey. But, it appears we have just such a situation here. Hopefully the AI invaders will be drawn to it like flies on sh**. This little excercise has led me to reverse my thinking and go writing -> math -> lit. We'll probably want at least 6 cats parked in Bait City (yes I've already decided on a name even though the ultrasound wasn't really clear, although Pile of Dung is a strong second)



If you put it where I think you want to put it why not just call it Flipper, or Rorke's Drift. It will have Zulu borders on at least two sides. I suppose we could use it as a training camp for our archers, though. Build it, flip, capture, promote an archer, flip, recapture, promote another archer, flip, re-re-capture and so on.

The Zulu have all the culture judging from their knowledge base, and Deity cultural conversion factors are brutal.

Research path conforms to my thinking in prior post. Mathematics for catapults and get the other miltary techs out of the library.

It's too late, I've screwed up the game. Apparently my sacrifices to the RNG were inadequate.

Recon: wake the conscript warrior. Send it NW to hunt barbs. crank research to 100%

IT: 'bul spear > settler

1725: conscript warrior flawlessly dies at the hands of the awesome 2/2 barb warrior. Drop science to 90%

1700: 3/3 warrior flawlessy dies to awesome 2/2 barb warrior (this will be a reoccurring theme, pay attention). drop sci to 80%. Build Iznik on Spice.

1675: raise lux to 20%. drop science to 70%.

1650: connect spice. lux back to 10%

IT: 'bul settler > archer

1625: drop sci to 60%

IT: 4/4 spear fortified in city finally gets me a win vs. an awesome 2/2 barb warrior. writing > math

1600: 4/4 archer kills a 3/3 barb uber warrior. wake the dinghy, move towards the borders.

IT: Ulundi finishes Oracle. Shaka is building the big bulb.

1575: Move towards Dung Pile anticipated site and discover there's a barb camp on it. Contact Abu. He knows writing. He's up wheel, CB, IW, math. contact X. sell him alpha + 4g for wheel. Trade writing +71g to X for IW. Declare on both. We have 2 each of iron and horses.

IT: 4/4 spear defeats 2/2 barb warrior. 'bul archer > spear.

1550: 4/4 archer on mountain dies flawlessly to 2/2 barb horse.

1525 IT: 2/2 barb horse kills fortified 4/4 spear in Bursa. There was an archer in bursa as well. WTF?

1500: nada

spear/settler pair should plant in place. there are 2 barb horses threatening bursa. given my luck, I'm not making any suggests as to how to deal with them. Next research should be lit. to reiterate Zulu are building the Lighthouse. We need swords and horses asap. The barb camp on the mountain has to go (just because I'm fealing hateful towards the RNG)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Clipboard017.jpg

Figuring out the save protocols, will get it posted soon (there was something very wrong in my original phrasing of I'll get it up soon :crazyeye: )

here's the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_BC1500_01.SAV

I think we forgot to tell the Admiral about the Deity barbs.

The town in the southeast will have both horses and iron, that's great. Just need to keep the garrison up.

We have two luxuries connected, a capitol that can do spears and settlers, and a worker farm close to completion, a pre-build that is just humming along, and some barbarians to use for training troops. What more could you want?

Nice job screwing up the game, AdmK, keep on screwing up like this and it is in the bag.

Obligatory roster check:

soul_warrior - you up
eldar - on deck
killercane - got the stone further up the hill
Meteor - pushed it even further
Bede - changed the plan a little
Admiral K - screwed the pooch and came up golden

The only screwing you did was screwing me by almost giving me a heart attack. Um maybe I could have put that a little more succinctly but you know what I mean. Good job.

What about whipping the library in Bait City when Lit comes in? It should be around size 3 by then, shortwhip using walls, then whip the brary or wait til the 20 shield mark to whip. I think the earlier the better, to eliminate that barb camp w/o chance for casualty and give it some culture for flip defense.

Also, what about NOT settling the NW just yet and building up our forces for a bit? Maybe put some units over there to stop barbage and whack the inevitable settlers the AI will try to land. I think Istanbul should be on full time troop buildup. Cities there would be a flip risk and not even that profitable due to corruption.

If we buildup now, I think we can invade the Indians right around the library's completion (when we get mapmaking). We need to get to them before they have a chance for a Golden Age. The Zulu will have a GA, as will the Persians. Abu and the evil warmonger Ghandi should be first to taste Ottoman Steel. How many units for the initial invasion is the big question.

We are hurting at Bursa, the barbs will likely not take our money but destroy the granary production. OUCH.

Can we load current saves into CAII? This is my first SGOTM so I dont want to mess it up.

I want to see what the resource situation is with our enemies. Soul, could you post that when you pick up the save?

Karachi is City #7 on the Indian city list in the Conquests editor, and Hlobane is City #4 for the Zulu. This indicates to me that their landmasses are not much bigger than ours if at all and probably smaller. The Zulus capitol must be close since Hlobane was founded a while ago in its current spot. The Zulu will be able to reinforce their position much quicker than the Indians.

We might be able to keep Karachi rather than raising and replacing it. It will be productive so close to our cap and less of a flip risk.

I really like the spot for horsey iron town. Pops a hut too. Maybe our FP city if things break right. i knew about diety barbs, just didn't believe enough. I can live with a few barbs for seasoning, but this wholesale wandering has gotta stop. crank 2 swords from 'bul and go kill the one on the mountain. hate to think what the end of age "massive" is gonna be like if we let them live.

@ SW - we need a dot map. we haven't done a dot map. Please may we have a dot map? :bounce: :bounce: 2 bounces we wants it really bad. Or are you in line for Revenge of the Sith :lol:

@SW2 - check 'bul - think I forgot to MM it on the last turn.

Obligatory roster recheck:

eldar - can you take it before going out of town?
soul - suffering from "job enrichment"
killercane - got the stone further up the hill
Meteor - pushed it even further
Bede - changed the plan a little
Admiral K - screwed the pooch and came up golden

Can we load current saves into CAII? This is my first SGOTM so I dont want to mess it up.

I want to see what the resource situation is with our enemies. Soul, could you post that when you pick up the save?


CAII is legal and encouraged. Checking now.

Reports no iron or horses for any of the opponents. :hmm:

The key is keeping our homeland defended at the same time but I think with careful unit placement we can make the Zuls land in some sort of ghetto Funnel of Doom SE of Istanbul, and make the Arabs and Persia land in the jungle in the SE.

We should not overestimate a Deity opponent. Getting to them quick will be a key to victory.

@ Killer - I agree in principal with you. but, you're planning an invasion before we've got a navy. ease off the caffiene. Let's get the island settled and the resources connected and then decide where to go. :)

This seems appropriate for the ottos and this game:
Last night I held Aladdin's lamp, and so I wished that I could stay.
Before the thing could answer me well someone came and took the lamp away
I looked around a lousy candle was all I found. :crazyeye:

<sashays off to another forum>

Originally Posted by Tubby Rower
Zulu already have Math. I wonder if they have ivory.....

I tell you who does have ivory, the INDIANS. I know Im a little jazzed up, one of the reasons is I found out I was having a kid today, so Im pretty happy.

Thanks to the team for putting up with me, its been very enjoyable so far.

I found out I was having a kid today, so Im pretty happy.
congrats :band: second trimester is the best, third is evil, first is lots of puking. Just a kind warning. :devil: :lol: Wait til you see the ultrasound pix...

I know Im a little jazzed up, one of the reasons is I found out I was having a kid today, so Im pretty happy.

Thanks to the team for putting up with me, its been very enjoyable so far.

And we didn't even know you were pregnant. Going into labor so suddenly must have been a big surprise. :D

Congrats, killer. Your life is about to change.... :crazyeye:

Congrats killer :)
I won't be able to play this evening (out for a :beer: ), I'll see what I can do tomorrow morning before I head off.

:beer: congrats killer!

That would be really kind if one of our near neighbors didn't have iron. It would be *very* nice to get some maps from someone.

congrats killer, re-dubbed Lifegiver :D

so the Injuns have tusks? seems right by M-D's sense of humour - they are ELEPHANT RIDERS, right ;)

like BB said earlier, whoa... horsie... slow down... lets plan one step at a time.
or to paraphrase - first we take Zimbabwe, then we take the world

I can't play right now. Too much :beer:

Just want to make a couple of points.

Looking at the stats of SGotM6, there is a direct connection between the fast finishers and number of cities and units. Some of the other stats were inconclusive, while others were directly related to these. We have a whole island to ourselves basically which can be expanded to a nice core location. The fact is, not only will other civs be invading soon, but they will try to settle *our* land.

An observation based on my failure to secure the Great Library in GotM43, I had an early lead on building it vs. the AI, but they beat me to it soundly. I think it's because I was trying for it in a size 6 city. I believe the population should be pumped as high and as fast as we can.

In summary:
Istanbul: settler factory, occasional spear?
Endrine: Great Library.
Bursa: workers, joined to and improving Endrine's land.
Iznik: Spears.

Just some ideas here, I've never won a game at this level, let alone AW, so feel free to improvise. Things could change fast as soon as the invasions start.

MP: no spoilers for GOTM43, some of us haven't even started it yet ;)

As for filling up the island... we can fill up the island fast, but how much faster if we go Granary @ Istanbul and go 4-turn Warrior+Settler like it can manage?

MP: no spoilers for GOTM43, some of us haven't even started it yet ;)

but I can't wait any longer for the first spoiler! :D

As for filling up the island... we can fill up the island fast, but how much faster if we go Granary @ Istanbul and go 4-turn Warrior+Settler like it can manage?
depends on how many cities we still need. from the looks of it, 8-10, in which case a settler factory would probably be worth it.

just thought of something. at pop2, our new cities can rush a archer or spear with just 1 shield in the box. that would greatly help our new cities defend vs. the invaders.

Okay. 8-10 cities = 8-10 Warriors = 10 Swords/Maces when the time comes.

I actually like that idea. 60 shields @ Istanbul? When I am sober I'll look at the math tomorrow and see if I like it. Then make a decision. How soon will Horses be hooked up?

eldar - please lay off the sauce abit, thats MY territory!!!
burp!!!
you do math, me do booze? ok?
on 2nd thought - you can do some booze. immfeeling generous ;)

Just want to make a couple of points.

Looking at the stats of SGotM6, there is a direct connection between the fast finishers and number of cities and units. Some of the other stats were inconclusive, while others were directly related to these. We have a whole island to ourselves basically which can be expanded to a nice core location. The fact is, not only will other civs be invading soon, but they will try to settle *our* land.

I think it's because I was trying for it in a size 6 city. I believe the population should be pumped as high and as fast as we can.

In summary:
Istanbul: settler factory, occasional spear?
Endrine: Great Library.
Bursa: workers, joined to and improving Endrine's land.
Iznik: Spears.


You've got the basics, we just need to execute.

Hmm is the soul man playing or am I...? I'm really not in any state for it!

Obligatory roster check:

soul_warrior - you up
eldar - on deck
killercane - got the stone further up the hill
Meteor - pushed it even further
Bede - changed the plan a little
Admiral K - screwed the pooch and came up golden
so i guess its my turn now.
will follow MP basic plan.
will play tonight.

SGOTM7 sw 1500bc-1250bc

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_BC1250_01.SAV

preturn - panic. those barbs are scary. move the ready spear from Edrine to Bursa as i fear horses more than warriors.
up lux to 10 to prevent Edrine riots.
lower sci to 80, Math still in 9, no lost GPT.
move the archer back to Edrine so he can hunt.

IBT- the barbs cut the road, so Istanbul riots.

1- up lux to 30 to stabilize Istanbul, math in 10 now.
Bursa spear chases off the barb horses, and the archer kills a barb warrior.
build Uskudar - we get a warrior from the hut, and set for worker.
Istanbuls worker starts roading the hoof.
our brave canoe continues south and spot purple. no contact yet.
deliberate about it for a few minutes, then decide i really dont like that barb warrior in our midlands. Spearo buckles up and charges. and dies.
start mining the horse.

IBT - the wounded barb retreeats a bit.

2- Istanbul, spear > spear (wanted a settler now but cant fit on growth)
now yet another horrific bad RNG luck. our E archer got smacked by a ONE hp barb. 1 hp!!! :sniper: all barbs!!!
Edrine is now unprotected. i rush our new spear and warrior to the hood, but they end up 1 tile too short, its prayer time, folks.

IBT- i think you can guess what happens now, but for the weak hearted i prepared this we lose our work on the palace, and get Edrine in an uproar.

iMM abit, avoid those purplish borders.

this is turning out to be the spoon awards turn.

3- now its official - the INJUNS have tusks, and are building Zeus.
restart palace in Edrine.
trying to dodge the purple border didnt help much, as i was bushwacked around a bend by a scandnavian galley.
ragdoll has Myst, Math, MM and HBR. regretably we only have 99g. as we need the cash and only deal is for Math = 50g.
i tell him to suck his thumb. tried extorting Math, but no go.

IBT - good to see that the greeks are also under heavy barb attacks.

4- Istanbul spear > settler (will finish 1 turn after growth)
lower lux to 10 after the earlier fiasco. up sci to 90 and shave a turn off Math.
wait.

IBT math is in, set for Lit but lower sci to 80 so we get it in 19 but make small change.

5- dunno why, as i triple checked, but istanbul riots.
up lux down sci. now in 20.
get the worker onto IronHill.

IBT - Istanbul is finally reconnected. happiness all around. now we get lit in 14.

6- nothing much.

7- Bursa is about to be attacked by more than a hand of horses, so i move a spare spear up there.

IBT was only partially right, just the lone gunman, but still, better safe than sorry.

8- Honest Abe gets the Bulb in Atlanta.
Iznik rax > spear,
workers sent to road that burma road north of Iznik. i want a 1 turn move to Edrine.

9- Istanbul settler > spear, Bursa granary > wealth for 1 turn to get worker on growth.
Vikings are trying for ToA
moved the settler into Edrine.
we have a ZULU galley outside Istanbul.

i think i forgot a urn there somewhere, but all is logged.

remember to switch Bursa back to worker.
beware the zulu landings.

hope you can salvage something out of this

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sgotm7_sw_64.jpg

Ouch, That is most uncheering.

Obligatory

killercane - up
Meteor - on the deck
Bede - changed the plan a little
Admiral K - screwed the pooch and came up golden
soul_warrior - off the grille and into the charcoal
eldar - on holiday with wife and family

:cry:

It may be time to self research and focus on capturing the Great Library.

Did I read your post right? We lost the prebuild shields?

:cry:

It may be time to self research and focus on capturing the Great Library.

Did I read your post right? We lost the prebuild shields?
yes you did.
i dont recall have the GLib is being built popup showing. maybe nobody is going there yet? but with my luck....
and cry is all i did too.
too depressed about it - off to the bar to drown my sorrow in a couple of :beer:s.

Bad RNG at the worst moment :undecide:. If it makes you feel any better SW, it probably could've happened to any of us. If worse comes to worst, I don't think we'll be the only team losing.

I probably would've stopped midturn to allow us a better opportunity for restrategizing what we're doing, which is what we seriously need now.

I honestly 99.9% doubt we could capture the Great Library unless it's right next door. If it's any distance away, our fleet of galleys would be shot down by more advanced AI ships. If it's on an adjacent continent, a quick strike is possible.

Like SW said, we don't know for sure that the other AI's have started on it or not. We may still be able to build it :crazyeye: .

Libraries seem to be double necessities now.

Any chance of the AI's warring with each other? :lol:

Thanks all for the kind words. I have the save. In a hole, but we'll do our damndest to fight our way out...literally.

save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_BC1000_01.SAV

So The Devil went down to Erdrine and took our palace prebuild.

We're in a bind and way behind, and cant look to make a deal.

Look at everything preturn. Debate some things and take Bursa off wealth and put on walls. Damn those barbs. We dont have enough units to do much of anything.

We whip walls in Bursa at 1225.

1200- walls done.

IBT- Zulus land archer and warrior by Uskudar, defended by one spear and at size one. Well, RNG has to turn up snake eyes sometime right? Barbs pillage wheat south of Bursa. We have no attacking units, only spears. Cant stop the pillaging. Barbs move to incense hill SW of Erdrine. hmmmm

1175- maintain status quo/ I have put a spear on the olive oil to protect two workers and MOVED ONE WORKER SE OF ISTANBUL ON THE BONUS GRASS. Watch him as he is near the barbs.

IBT- zulus attack barb camp and win almost flawlessly. Archer takes 1 damage. C*(^suckers. Incense hill is pillaged.

1150 Change Istanbul to Sword, I need at least one attacking unit to clear out the barb invasions.

IBT- THE RAMPAGING PERSIAN FORCES HAVE DESTROYED THE ARABS. The barbs have been suiciding on Bursa's walls, and we are 5-0 on that front.

1125- Decide enough barb horses are out of the way. Move the settler w/ vet spear escort south.

1100- The Zulus have moved beside Uskudar. Fingers crossed. Spear is one move away for help, stopped short by the river.

IBT- Spear wins v. vet Zulu warrior. Spear at 3/4 vs. vet Zulu archer LOSES by redlining archer and then losing 3 straight. Im sorry. Uskudar is burned. No more iron. If I had whipped a spear in the nearby city instead of waiting for it to build I could have gotten there the turn earlier and prevented the loss. I wanted to keep away from the unhappiness, and I was too greedy.

1075- Kill the redlined archer with a spear bc Im pissed off and to hell with the RNG. We win, a small consolation.

IBT- Zulus drop off an impi and reg warrior at Istanbul on to our lambs.

1050- I send the sword and spear back to Istanbul. Erdrine is undefended for a few turns.

IBT- Impi retreats vs. our spear. Chicago of America founded where I was going with the settler in the south. Will have to turn the settler around to go to the iron beside Bursa. Everything I do seems to be the wrong decision.

1025- Send settler pair towards the iron and olive oil, be there in 5 turns. Declare on america. We cannot get anything out of them. Attack Zulu warrior with sword, the stupid warrior redlines our sword before we kill him. He promotes however.

IBT- Our ELITE FREAKING SPEAR loses to a barb horse at Bursa. This just sucks ass. Zulu impi pillages the lamb.

1000- Archer built in Istanbul kills the redlined Impi and promotes to elite. Conscript warrior back down to Erdrine, I had intended to upgrade him until the Uskudar fiasco. Worker roading SE of Istanbul, when hes done he can go up and repair the pillaged lamb. We now have a clown in Bursa w/ only one spear defending. Its not connected via incense hill but soon will be.

The area of former Uskudar can be resettled at the end of the next turn set by a settler out of Iznik. I hate this game. No grand naval invasion of the Indians in our near future.

If the settler pair miraculously makes it to the intended spot without dying we will get some relief from the barbs. Thats a big IF. Im disgusted with my turns. Bede please make it all better.

Bursa will get connected via the incense road next turn as it grows.

I hope everyone is have as bad a time as us with barbs. I'm tempted to think that the barbs actually have some type of bonus.

At least Chicago is founded in a useful place for once we capture it.

I might be up next. I'll wait for Bede.

Heres the map.

The (only?) good news is that the arabs are gone and no one has built the Library yet. If we get some units out and take care of the barbs in the next 20 turns we'll be alright. An uprising right now would be brutal.

well, to quote my favorite dance track of the moment (By Basement Jaxx)
OH MY GOSH
what next? we get invaded by aliens who kidnap our workers?

please BEDE, make the dreams go away... im terrified :cry:

I want to thank you all for making me feel better. I thought I was the only one with barb issues (and no that wasn't the name of the first wife; I've only had one and she's insane for keeping me) :crazyeye:

I don't understand why they hate us so much, never was married to one....Molly, Susan and Valerie, but no Barb.....

It is just mad-bax and his regionally intense barbarian activity. The man loves his baribies. Grrr.....

Meteor, it is indeed your turn in the barbarian barrel. Cover up hunker down and go for broke. We will get there yet.

For those of you who have not played mad-bax maps yet he is very very good at making the simple difficult, not necessarily complex, just very very testing of your ability to balance all the demands of the game. That is why I really like his maps. The one he made for SGOTM5 was a Regent game that played like Deity without the Deity frustrations.

We be doing fine. We will get the demmed library do hang in there.

Our one error was not prosecuting the barbarian hunt with dispatch and vigor.

Roster check (obligatory)

Meteor - up for some fun
Bede - waiting for his turn
Admiral K - screwed the pooch and came up golden
soul_warrior - off the grille and into the charcoal
eldar - on holiday with wife and family
killercane - licking a few wounds but still clawing

Everything's looking good.

0. 1000

IT
I see 2 Scandinavian galleys moving north along our East coast. Likely to build a city or attack Istanbul

1. 975
Incense is reconnected.
Join a worker to Endrine.

IT
Vikings complete ToA
2 Galleys are positioned next to Istanbul.

2. 950

IT
Bad...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mp7_s1.gif

Zulu Stack
4/4 Impi
3/3 Archer
3/3 Warrior
3/3 Warrior

Viking Stack
3/3 Spearman
3/3 Swordsman
4/4 Warrior

Istanbul
4/4 Spearman
4/4 Spearman
5/5 Swordsman
5/5 Archer

3. 925
Second American town on our land: San Fransisco.

4. 900
Elite sword kills warrior.

IT
Spear defeats swordsman at Endrine.
Spear defeats warrior at Endrine.
Spear defeats archer at Istanbul.
Spear defeats barb horse at Bursa.
We discover Literature.
Zulu make another landing at Istanbul:
3/3 Impi
3/3 Warrior


5. 875
Izmit founded.
Elite archer kills warrior.
We are the only civ building the Great Library.
Move Lux from 40% to 20%.

IT
Viking spear pillages.
Pillaging causes another population drop in Endrine 7->6.
4/4 Impi attacks 4/5 Archer across river on plains, wins with 1hp.
Zulu land 3/3 Archer.
America completes Mausoleum of Mausollos.

6. 850
5/5 Elite swordsman loses to 3/3 unfortified Impi on plains, across river, who loses only 1hp. I'm particuarly frustrated at this on because the calculator gave me 81.4% odds.
archer kills redlined Impi. protected by spearman.

IT
Vikings land warrior and spear next to Izmit.
spear defeats archer at Istanbul.
America is building the Great Library.

7. 825
3/4 Archer defeats 3/3 spear. whew...if he would've survived, he'd probably cut the road between Istanbul (no more luxuries or Iron...).

IT
Spear defeats spear at Izmit.
Spear defeats warrior at Izmit.
India completes Statue of Zeus.
Vikings land 3/3 Swordsman and 5/5 archer by Izmit.

8. 800
Sword defeats warrior, promotes to Elite.

IT
More great news. The newly landed Vikings defeat our two 3/4 spears:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/mp7_s2.gif

9. 775

IT
Discover Horseback Riding (needing swift movement to defend all corners of the "empire")

10. 750

- Things have gone from bad to bad.
- For research, go to Monarchy then shut off science or shut off science now (Great Library in 16)?




<<<THE SAVE>>> (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_BC0750_01.SAV)

And here come the Deity hordes.

In the words of Mrs Jones little boy " we have not yet begun to fight" and hearken to words of Jenny's child:

We shall go on to the end.....we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender....

Got it.

Need catz and spears and swords....

i can only promise you blood, sweat and tears.
hope you have a bulldog, Bede ;)

First of all congrats killer!! We just left our little girl for a week with my parents. First time she's been away and I started missing her as soon as we drove away. Offspring will change your life. Good luck!!

Now.....Holy cow....... I need to stop going away for the weekend. The same thing seemed to happen during SGOTM6. Are the viking ships to the east of our island headed back to Scandanavia or coming from??

Should science be turned off since the GL seems immenent?

i think sci should be turned off.
why?
1- it does seem likely *X my fingers and pray* to be ours soon
2- cash buildup would be nice.
3- how much worse can things become? *thunder clashes, lightning strikes me where i stand* if we dont get it, were BBQed. if we do, were just plain toasted (with Butter and Marmite)

I'm back. Ouch....

WTF is it with the iron horse city? Told you we should have called it Pile of Dung for the way it attracts the AI. When we take it back, please rename it "pink dot". Igor's been deployed to find a few virgins to sacrifice to Sirian. Keep researching horses then turn off research.

@ MP - which graphics pack are you using? Has snoopy done an update?

@ Tubby - once the offspring verbally communicate and you've got more than one, the grand loco parentis becomes easier :lol: Now you should have lots of time to devote to civ... :lol:

Keep researching horses then turn off research.

We got the horseback on my last turn.


@ MP - which graphics pack are you using? Has snoopy done an update?

You're the first to notice. It's my own versions of Rhye's terrain which I matched the grasslands to look like Snoopy's 4.1 "greener." Basically a more colorful, greener Rhyes. I was going to release it, but became lazy.

you could release it so idiots could DL it... :)

once the offspring verbally communicate and you've got more than onewell that second part is what we're lacking. Better get cracking huh ;)

you could release it so idiots could DL it... :)

I'll post it sometime this week. :p

Originally posted by H.W.O. Kinnard: Surrender
Transcript: My recollection of the German surrender ultimatum, and the "Nuts" reply by McAuliffe goes like this. On the 22nd of December, when the division was and had been totally surrounded by the Germans, the intelligence officer and I decided that we had to take this to General McAuliffe. We first took it to the chief of staff, and the three of us, and Colonel Harper then went in, woke up General McAuliffe who was taking a bit of a nap, and told him that we had a surrender ultimatum. And that Tony McAuliffe had first thought that the Germans were trying to surrender to us. But, we told him no, not so. That they want us to surrender to them, and they go on to say all the bad things that they're going to do if we don't do this. And he said, Tony McAuliffe then said, "I surrender, ah nuts!" And then he sort of pondered about whether he should answer or should it be in writing, and so forth. And everybody agreed that there should be a written answer. And Tony McAuliffe then said, "Well, I don't know what to tell them." And I spoke up and said, "Well, what you first said would be hard to beat." And Tony said, "What do you mean?" And I said, "You said nuts!" And all of us in the room sort of thought that was a good answer. So Tony sat down and wrote out with a pencil, "To the German Commander, Nuts! A.C. McAuliffe, Commanding." Had his secretary type it out. Gave the message to Colonel Harper, who took it back to his headquarters and gave it to the German Armistice party. The Germans were allowed to take off their blindfold and read the message, and they were puzzled by it. And they were trying to translate nuts. And they said, "Nuets, Nuets, Nuts... Vas Is Das?" They didn't get it at all. And Colonel Harper said, "If you don't understand it, it means go to hell!"
here's where I get my inspiration.

here hear! AK, here hear!

oh, and MP, just not commenting on the graphics doesnt mean we havent noticed your :goodjob: post it asap.

I don't like the looks of this at all, at all. No walls in a couple of places, one of them being the capitol and no cattypults for hurling philospher's stones....yet we have a barracks in our jungly spices town.

So order up a couple of each.

And the newly built cat at Istanbul proves its worth and wounds a Viking archer which is then killed by an archer from Istanbul.

The cat whipped out of Isznik however does no damage to an Impi on the mountain.

Impi attacks at Iznik and is crippled and retreated but the Vikings drop off a sword in the east.

The elite sword from Erdrine kills the crippled Imp but but no leader.

We now have two Vikings (sword and archer) and two Persians (horseman and archer) coming from the east.

Pumop another worker into Erdrine and shift some citizens around.

In 670BC Iznik faces four attackers with two cats and four defenders.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM7Bede_670BC.jpg

The Vikings kill the elite sword and a spear, and a remaining spear wounds a Persian horse. We kill a single Viking sword.

The Zulu land two Imps at Istanbul and the Americans land a warrior and spear.

An Imp dies at Istanbul and the second captures a stray worker.

The cats at Iznik wound a couple more Persian horse but the archer at Istanbul fails to kill the Impi.

Gandhi seeks peace talks and wants 20g and Literature.

The Americans attack Iznik with warriors - stoned, then impaled.

Now the Zulu come seeking peace and they want Literature. And their freaking Impi grabs the last worker...

The Americans start SunT and the Vikings the Library in 570.

And the biggest threat to Iznik appears in the form of two Persian horses and two Persian archers.

We lose an elite spear to the Persian onslaught but Iznik holds. And the Zulu build Mpondo on the eastern horses.

It is now 550BC and we are still alive. The Great Library will finish in 4 if our luck holds.

Things are looking better. Get some more enemies into the killing zone and with walls and catapult support we ought to start generating leaders. Then it will be time to pick up the offensive against the trespassers, get back our iron, or claim it in the mountain west of the barbie camp with a settlement or some culture expansion...anyway you get the idea.

On second thought I am going to exercise the leader's prerogative here and finish the Library.

Stay tuned.

Got the Library, but.... (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_BC0350_01.SAV)
lost the realm.

In 530 the Zulu drop a horseman and an Impi at the gates of Istanbul and there is only one defender at home....

Istanbul survives, The Great Library is built and the Barbarian uprising begins.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM7Bede_Library.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM7Bede_Barbarians.jpg

The barbarians destroy the garrison at Bursa, leaving it open for the Americans, but the GL produces:

Philosophy
Code of Laws
Map Making
Construction
Currency
Republic
Monarchy
Engineering

but the invaders have cut the roads and killed a garrison spear so Istanbul riots.



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM7Bede_Istanbul470BC.jpg

So now we have the Library but I don't think we will get to keep the capitol or Bursa.

Bursa is gone in 470.

And in 390 Istanbul falls to the Zulu.

We are now a 2CC with no horses and no iron.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM7Bede_The_Realm350BC.jpg

But at least we don't have to deal with landings from the sea :blush:

My feeling about this game, perfomed by the smily ensemble:
:mischief: :hammer: :undecide: :cringe: :eek: :aargh: :mad: :suicide: :shakehead

c'mon AK, we need a miracle :) .

I assume we can view the other threads after we croak?

I think the barbs said to hell with just invading Bursa and invaded my hard drive since my computer blew up today. Reinstalled windows, fixed assorted other things, and now this. What a bummer of an evening.

Whip our worthless people into something productive AK. TO THE BITTER END.

It is not game over yet.

We just didn't get enough cats and spears built. We can still fix it.

YEAH, fix us up AK :king:
wondering if i'll play another set :confused: :mischief:
should i? :eek:

Wow Bede. You did a better job than I could have done. I might have been reporting a completed game if I were in the rotation. At least this game won't be the marathon that SGOTM6 was....

Tonight was middle school orientation(not for me, for the offspring, don't go there) i won't get to this until tomorrow. Nuts.

Tonight was middle school orientation(not for me, for the offspring, don't go there) i won't get to this until tomorrow. Nuts.

Skipping middle school increases the likelyhood of idiocy. You should reconsider. :D

@ MP - I'm already an idiot :lol:

Whoo hoo! I am fired up ladies and germs. Why? Admiral Idiocy. No complex MM, no pre-builds, no strategic disaster consequences (that SG is #2 on the list). This is a straight forward tactical fight. Refer to the inspirational invocation above.

The bad news first me thinks (As Woody the world's best bartender once said, "Shouldn't it be I thinks?")

It is 210BC; the status quo remains. We have 2 cities.

Now for the good news. We have a GL.

Igor was taking the notes. I forgot to monitor him and he was writing with his toes again. Thus the notes are illegible for the most part. IIRC the score is about 15-1 in our favor (we lost an archer at Iznik). The AI can't seem to figure out it should cut the road between our cities. The vast majority of action is at Iznik (see pix below)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Clipboard019.jpg

I've got 3 turns to go. I wasn't sure if protocol allows DL the save, so I didn't. What do I do with the GL? Spear army. IIRC, there are 2 5/5 spears in Iznik along with a 5/5* spear an archer and a cat. we need kulture to flip some AI cities.

The admiral is loopy (scratch that, looping for responses)

all hail the Admiral!!
a spear army... hmmmm.....
i say go for it.
and now your sig is REALLY appropriate.
NUTS to shaka and the rest of the gangers. NUTS!!!!

Ground Control to Venerable Monk
Your circuit's dead,
there's something wrong
Can you hear me, Tubby Rower?
Can you hear me, Killercane?
Can you hear me, Meteor Punch?
Can you....

Here am I floating
round my tin can
Far above the Moon
Planet Earth is blue
And there's nothing I can do...

Amazing AK, That spear army will make us invinsible for awhile. If worse comes to worse, we'll go OCC for a while before our eventual "greatest comeback in Civ III history!"

Right. I've just witnessed the greatest comeback in the history of European Football (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4573159.stm).

Winning this game should be a doddle, non?

Spear army, spear army, cattypults, walls, more spears. If we have to we'll do this as a 2CC.

one chicken fried spear army coming up. tomorrow. way past igor's bedtime.

still alive. The road was finally cut. GL in Iznik. American MDI just wandered out of the fog. http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_BC0150_01.SAV

Sorry A-K, I leave work @ 3:30 & don't really check these forums after that.

Is there a way to get some culture in Iznik so the Iron can come back into our borders? if we could get the iron connected again. A pike man army would be better than spears.

ok - gots it.
polish that second stripe of mine, go to the temple and beg the gods for some RNG luck.
i promise my first born as a servant to the gods.
hope they accept it.

3 hours later, out of a dream i see a smoking city. on top of the battlement is a weird red flag. it has "liverpool" enscribed on it.
i take it as a good omen.

plan - spears. walls. more spears. then - check status, and more spears.
EDITIs there a way to get some culture in Iznik so the Iron can come back into our borders? if we could get the iron connected again. A pike man army would be better than spears.
i will see if its at all possible. if it is, rush some thing if i can do so "safely"

Of course, we can't build a sodding army 'til we have four cities. Use the GL to rush a Library....

If we survive, should we consider building a citiy directly on the Iron? that 50% defensive bonus would help.

Yes superlative idea. ICS til we hit 4 cities. The escort will have to at least 3 spears.

@ team - you've all articulated what I was mentally trying to channel to youIs there a way to get some culture in Iznik so the Iron can come back into our borders?Of course, we can't build a sodding army 'til we have four cities. Use the GL to rush a Library....I thought about this but couldn't get myself to the point of burning a GL for a sodding (please confirm I've used this term correctly) library.should we consider building a citiy directly on the Iron? Yes superlative idea

aye aye capn.
i wont be using that leader for a lib.
i WILL try to get a settler out with a MINIMUM of 3 spears as escorts.
i am thinking spear army. feeel free to coment til noon GMT.

i am thinking spear army. feeel free to coment til noon GMT.No army can be created until we have 4 cities even if you have the Mil. Acad. You have to have 4 cities for every army......Good luck. may the forks be with you....

we are still alive (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_AD0050_01.SAV)

sgotm7 - sw - 150bc-50ad

pre turn? pray, i guess.
try to form that spear army in Iznik, it wont let me (no 4 towns) wont let me use it for anything though.

IBT get an E spear redlined, but survive without loss. no kills either, as all retreat.
more troops in our land (about a gazillion enemies cause Edrine to riot)

1- Americans get the Templars.
lux upto 50 now.
our cats dont hit squatt.

IBT lose 2 spears in Edrine but get a sword. some enemies retreat to heal.

2- decide since we have just 2 archers and a spear in Edrine, to use the archers against the stacks. maybe ill manage to cull some weeds out.
kill an archer, lost 1 hp.
3 cat hits.

IBT - Edrine gets attacked by 2 swords. our vet spears goes E and then dies.

3- Edrine spear > spear,
2 cat hits. the first american MDI is hit.

IBT we get finally pillaged enough that we can call our lands "wild and untamed"
stop some Zulu chuckers with our spears.

4- lose an archer in Iznik, attacking an archer stack. atleat i redlined him.

IBT - to top it all off, we now have DISEASE strike EDRINE.

5- Edrine and Iznik both go spear > spear
AMericans are building COPERNICUS
edrine is in a bad situation. cant work any lands, as all good land is occupied. startving)

6- some luck holds out. manage to redline an immortal, but miss an MDI.

IBT kill 3 archers getting a dead E spear.

7- scratch a spear with a cat.

IBT we get CHIVALRY.
we also lose a spear and an archer in Edrine. which is also down to size 3.

8- try to lure some enemies out from the Edrine front with a reg spear heading for reinforcement.

IBT were down to a OCC.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede_sw_70.jpg

9- retreat our bait back into Iznik. hole up. change production to an archer. we might need some kick.
lower lux to 0. now e have 120g and 0 income.

10- nada.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bede_sw_71.jpg

that archer could and should be changed. i just want to live.

Well, on the positive side, the palace going to Iznik will eventually pop the borders and get the iron back for you.

Small consolation, I know. But do not go quietly. :)

Owee. That hurts.

Quietly? We have not yet begun to fight!

Roster:
eldar - up. Fight on noisily
killercane - on deck
Meteor
Bede - built the Great Library but lost the capitol
Admiral K - kept us in the game
soul_warrior - tried the hot seat and got burned

Oh boy, I get to lose the game...

@eldar, it's only fair, you started it! :D

@eldar, it's only fair, you started it! :D

:rotfl: oh, and we're fending off immortals now? :eek:

So it would appear. How many turns d'you reckon I can last out?

I'll put my bet at ten. :p

ill take the longshot and bet 14.

It's all over. Whilst I might've made a couple of slightly better decisions (read: rush 2 spears instead of a Archer and a Library - gawd knows why the Library!) this might've lasted beyond my 10 turns. Then again, as Brother Bede said, I started this fight....

0 50 Good news. We have 5 Spears and a Catapult. And a GL! And, er, that's about it. Let's face it - we ain't getting 4 cities soon, so I will do something with the GL, once the current Archer is built - if it's built! Press the Space Bar and pray. I have numbered every turn up to 250AD on my spreadsheet, so I'm being optimistic! And why not! OCC AWD - at least it ain't Sid.

IT: Nothing much.

1 70 Catapult fails to scratch the Immortal. Turn up Sci to 10%! Hey why not…

IT: No Spears lost. However we're having trouble getting any food.

2 90 Cat knocks an HP off one Immortal. Chin up, these guys are falling over each other and aren't attacking us. I may last the 10!

IT: One of the Spears is dead.

3 110 Okay, I'll turn on animation 'cos I'm not seeing what's going on here. Well, we ain't going to stay at size 2 forever. Whip an Archer. Hey, there's an American Crusader!

IT: Lose two Spears, one 5-0 to an Elite sword.

4 130 Knock an HP off the Crusader, gonna rush a Library with the GL, might give a little more breathing space.

IT: Better RNG luck, beat off two attacks. Culture boundaries increase.

5 150 Knock an HP off an Immortal.

IT: Lose another Spear, to a Viking Archer.

6 170 HP knocked off an Impi.

IT: No action, nothing to attack.

7 190 Miss a Crusader. It could all end this IT, with bad luck.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sgotm7_bede_190AD.jpg

IT: Spear fends off the Crusader, but is down to 1HP. Archer flawlessly sees off a Sword, before it's killed by an Immortal. A Zulu Archer knocks the final HP off the Spear, and it's all over. Would rushing a Spear instead of the Library have helped? Spear instead of Archer? Only for surviving this 10, I reckon.

If you really must, the 190AD save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Bede_SG007_AD0190_01.SAV) is attached - all you have to do is press the Space Bar!

Neil. :sad:

7? that HALF of what i bet on you.
well... we did try, and we sure did die on our collective feet.
so, whats for dinner?

ohh, just remmebered.
can we now watch the other threads?
theres a certain team iim very interested in lurking.
no info revealed ofcourse.
waiting for permission

Team Wacken has gone orbital in their score. Then again, no surprises - look at the lineup. We were screwed by having to build the GL twice, in effect - those Barbs were vicious, and really softened us up nicely.

Bad luck guys! Always-war is difficult enough, but on deity its sadistic!

Yes, you can now go and read other teams threads (and quite possibly experience the joy of schadenfreude! :D

Sorry to see that, guys.

Better luck the next go round.

Next game. Killem all. let the diety sort it out. My fault for the bad barb actions. sorry.

Anybody want to continue this as a "do-over" from the start?

Be happy to lead the charge.

Nice effort from all. Between barbs and neighbors only a tile away.....

And now that I think on it, the Great Library was our downfall, as it cost us too many troops and settlements.

Another challenging map from the baxter, taking all the received wisdom and knocking it into a cocked hat.

Anybody want to continue this as a "do-over" from the start?

Be happy to lead the charge.

I was thinking about redoing this game as well, if not in the succession games forum with you guys, then by myself.

With this difficult a variant, somebody had to lose. :(

Great game guys, it was a pleasure to lurk!

Sorry about the bad advice guys.... Next time I'll lurk some other team ;) I wonder if you had filled in the starting island, if it would have been easier to block the incoming hordes. I'm also curious as whether delaying the contacts would have been more beneficial.

Now off to see how the other teams are faring....

Did we have time to fill the island? Did we take too long to realise we could've filled the island, thus allowing us to use Istanbul as a Settler pump relatively safely?

No, I think the ton of shields we lost when the barbs sacked Edrine was what cost us. Think of how many extra Archers/Spears/etc. those shields would've gotten us, and it would probably have made the difference at least long enough for us to get up and running.

I just scanned through team Wacken's thread and they basically went all out expansion. They cleared the barbs early and settled like mad. They also delayed contact with Persia. I think Zulu, India, & Arabs are going to be auto-contacts due to their starting locations.

BTW, Wacken lost the race to the GL. America built it and I believe that America is the furthest away for the starting island so the tech situation would be interesting for team Wacken.

I'm in for the do over.

If you are one short(-ish) of a team I will try to fit in.... If you will have me....

Been lurking since the start... looks very very very hard to do....

I'm not sure I should go again... I've been a bit of a Jonah in the two SGOTMs I've played!

well, the glove has been thrown, the cheek slapped.
i demand satisfacion!
when do we start?

Okey. So far it is the Admiral, soul, Meteor, Bede confirmed in the roster.

@eldar, you are in if you care to be. Your SGOTM record is only one victory shy of mine and I have two and now probably three wooden spoons on my virtual "love me" wall. So let us know.

@namliaM - if you think you can put up with this band o' rowdies, welcome aboard.

We should continue to use this thread as we don't want to put any spoilers out and I will ask that all of us refrain from looking at the other threads until we finish.

So, how's this for a rotation:

Meteor
soul
AdmK
eldar
killercane - if available
namliaM
Bede

Roster is a little deep but it will keep the game moving I think.

Anybody still have the 4000bc save? :D

I still have the 4000BC save, seeing as I started with it :) Yeah, I'm back in!

Cool let the games begin...

@Bede I am quite sure I cannot manage them hordes, same as I am sure I will not be managing the COTM but with the team's help and beeing involved.... I wanted to join cause I think I would learn so much that it would be time well spend for me....

I am delighted that I am allowed to join.

ok
first thoughts.
well, we know we have loads of barbs but no AI on hand.
do we go uber expansionist?
wondering the wonder? maybe collossus, as i would REALLY hate to lose so many shields a second time? we can keep up the research our selves?
no other thought right now.

3750 BC
Meet with 'ol Shaka. Trade Mason,Bronze, 1G for Pottery and Warrior Code.

I've read a little of the opening moves from some other teams to help plan the start. Build order was warrior, spear, granary (completes next turn). How much protection will our settlers need? At least 1 spear. At most, 2 spears, in the middle, a spear and warrior.

I did no research. We will meet India at any time and then trade for Alphabet. Then start research on writing...?

Strategy? Expand our butts off. Keep settlers/cities safe from barbs. Great Library->Military force.

Save file is renamed: Bede_SG007_BC3000_02.SAV The real one was 01.

I noticed this when I played, so it's just for anyone who hasn't. The red line represents 1 movement, in case you need to cover the worker, or for any other movement reason.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/bd75.gif

I think we should try to play "as clean as possible" meaning try to forget whe we will meet and what the land situation is Or not?

Thus thinking we would want to get (atleast) 1 warrior (or so) out to scout.

General question: This is GOTM right? So need to run Vanilla or PTW? Then load, cannot load using conquest?
Right?

I think we should try to play "as clean as possible" meaning try to forget whe we will meet and what the land situation is Or not?

Thus thinking we would want to get (atleast) 1 warrior (or so) out to scout.I think we're playing to win and it is impossible to "forget." Two lossses on the same game would be sad. I wouldn't have sent that warrior out anyway, as I am using him for worker/city protection, even though now he is MP duty. However, if we need a warrior to scout, we should.

General question: This is GOTM right? So need to run Vanilla or PTW? Then load, cannot load using conquest?
Right? We're playing on Conquests. Here are the file instructions. Welcome to our team! :wavey:


Resources and PediaIcons setup for ALL Conquests players.

You must have Conquests patched to 1.22 in order to play.
Download >>THIS<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM-C3C.zip) file and unzip it into your Civilization/Conquests/Scenarios Directory. If you do this correctly you should find a Folder named SGOTM in this directory which contains the GOTM resources and the files that enable to the software to handle them.

If you have any problems with either the installation of these files, changing the resources.pcx files or any error messages playing the game of the month, then please don't hesitate to e-mail or send a PM to myself or one of the GOTM staff.

I'm available to lurk. I now have a real and a lurking wooden spoon. Is it ok for me to offer opinions?? I've read Wacken's, Own's, & X-team's thread. I'll lurk regardless, but opinions will be held back if the team doesn't want them....

Let me know. I'll petition my wife to let me have the CD back before SGOTM8 ;)

Great, that'll probably be OCC AWS!

Got it. Tomorrow.

@ tub, the starts are up for igor1 with your map. :thumbsup: Should I send your wife flowers or chocolate so you can play SGOTM8? Would she freak if she got either from some guy named igor? :lol:

Looking good so far.

Only suggestion I would make is skip the boats and build spears and settlers. Keep the science budget high towards Literature, I wtill want to try for the Library.

Should I send your wife flowers or chocolate so you can play SGOTM8? Would she freak if she got either from some guy named igor? :lol: Oh, Just a note I also posted in TR04..... I requested the return of my CD and the wife said "Why?". I know a stupid question but she seems to ask that with a purpose. So of course I told her "to play it". So we agreed to a library format of my play. She'll check it out to me and I have to return it in a couple hours. So I think that we ought to get a wooden spoon team together for SGOTM8 ;)

goody :dance: tubby.
but dont over do it again...

I'd like to see an analysis of TR's posts-per-day count on CFC before and after his CD was taken away.

As expected, not much to report, apart from a second contact and war:

0 3000 Pre-turn: nothing to do. Press Space.

IT: Granary->Settler.

1 2950 IT: Indian warrior appears.

2 2900 Buy Alpha from Gandhi for Masonry+33g. Then declare on him, of course.

4 2800 IT: Settler->Rax.

7 2670 Found Edrine. Start Palace right away.

8 2630 IT: Rax->Spear. The first Barb warrior appears.

10 2550 IT: Spear->Settler. At the start of 2510, but I've not moved anything.

Neil. :cool:

Revised rotation:
soul - you are up
AdmK - pacing the quarterdeck
namliaM
Bede
Meteor
eldar

Why the rivision?
Are we sticking to the old city planning?
Istanbul is on a Warrior-Spear-Settler rota?
Next city build barracks?

There was nothing wrong (at all) with where Edrine was. It was just unlucky, is all. In AW games, all cities should be within a single move (by road) of all other cities for any 1-move unit.

Re-revised revised rotation

AdmK - up
namliaM - pacing the deck
Bede
Meteor
eldar
soul - rumors of pain 'till Saturday

@namialM, first revision 'cause eldar came in after MP, just reflecting that. Istanbul should rotate whatever sequence gets the most military/settlers.

And every city needs walls!!!!

Why the rivision?
Are we sticking to the old city planning?
Istanbul is on a Warrior-Spear-Settler rota?
Next city build barracks?

I don't think we should build warriors at all (Even though I built one :blush: ). Perhaps if we have a massive warrior->sword upgrade strategy.

soul - you are up
AdmK - having cannon practice, bored out of my skull after sitting thru a 5 inning game that was won 20-0 with at least 15 walks.
namliaM
Bede
Meteor
eldar

Perhaps if we have a massive warrior->sword upgrade strategy.
don't think we'll have enough time to build the treasury.

So it should then be a 4 turn settler factory? while at size 5-6 it has 5 food, 10+spt (potential) and it has a barracks?!

I was not saying there is anything wrong, just wondering where we are putting citys (next)

No problems with the rotation, but I was just wondering why it changed more or less sudenly

Istanbul needs produce nothing but spears and settlers up until we get our other cities running, then I would think it could go settler factory, another city producing spears.

Only spears and settlers....
IIRC then it needs to be MM-ed to do
At size 5 +5f +10s (give Growth in 2 and spear in 2)
At size 6 +4f +10s (Give Growth in 3 and settler in 3)
For we dont want to grow to 7.....

Maybe even more MM-ing to not waste shields/food in size 6 (not sure what the Oyster gives in f/s/c)

Oyster = 2f/2c in Despotism - good for a bit of extra commerce if we need it.

got it, but will play saturday only
spears and settlers. 1 turn walk. WALLS.

i dont think ill be able to squeeze it in tonight, nor tomorow night.
if you want to, skip me.
will try a get to it later tonight, and if i do ill post a renewed GOT IT

NO wooden spoon for you guys. Team Darkness just bit the dust @ 90 BC

@Team: I'm losing/lost interest in continuing the replay. Half the other teams are almost finished.

NO!!! no wooden spoon? NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

@SW: It was rightfully ours!! :lol:


oh well they can have it

Is the replay still on since the other teams are finishing? Which team is winning (i.e. I'm too lazy to read all the other threads and want to know which thread to read)?

It looks like Team Durkz is winning, but only by 78. Team Wakken is second. This is by the SGOTM Results (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php) page.