SGOTM7 - Team Durkz

Welcome to your game thread. Please use it and subscribe to it.
I hope you enjoy the game

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM7-Start.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Ottomans
World size - 80 wide by 80 high. (Small)
Difficulty - Deity
Landform - Archepelago
Barbarians - Roaming

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game. The SGOTM Reference thread contains all the files and links you need to install the small mod for PTW/C3C and rather larger mod for vanilla. There are test saves too so you can check your installation.

The GOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71788)
SGOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112722)
Upload Save to Server (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php)
Download Save from Server (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)


This Months' sponsored variant is Always War Deity (AWD) the rules for which are as follows.

1. You must declare war on each Civilisation by the end of the turn you make that contact.
2. You must remain at war with each Civilisation until the end of the game, or until that Civilisation is destroyed.
3. You may trade with a Civilisation on the turn you make contact and before declaring war, but you may not establish any embassies.
4. No turn based (gpt) deals are permitted.
5. You must win by Domination.

Note: PTW and Vanilla players are not permitted to leader rush Great Wonders Before the year 1000BC for this game.

Ok this is our roster (as m-b wrote it)

Durkz - singed in
Elmarae - singed in
MOTH - living with no civ until 22. 05
Niklas - singed in
WarDance - singed in
zyxy -singed in


If you want to be swiched or something just say the word :)


Litle about me :

Style of play: Warmonger but a builder in the hart, but suck when it comes to MM
Dificulty: Deity (M-b got it wrong in the spreadsheet) can win 85 % of "all random" starts on deity
Favorite goverment: Republic
Favorite unit: The Rider
Favorite wonder: Sun Tsu
Favorite civ: The Iroquis
Favorite smilie: :banana:

Why didn't you say sooner? I'll upgrade you. Now where's the nearest rax...?

Why didn't you say sooner? I'll upgrade you. Now where's the nearest rax...?
i didnt think it materd realy :rolleyes:

Greetings, all. This will be quite a game for me... my first succession game and my first experience with Deity! I do well on Emperor but have been scared to even try Deity. I have played a couple always war games but they were at monarch difficulty and with civs with an Ancient Age UU... the early Golden Age sure helps. Obviously we won't have it that easy. Anyone played Always War on Deity or Emperor even?

Looking forward to meeting everyone!

:salute: Reporting for duty.

Greetings to all. I agree with WarDance that this will be quite a game, and I'm in much the same situation (s)he is. I'm a solid Emperor player (gee, I wouldn't have said that a few months ago before finding this site), but I haven't had the time try a Deity game yet. And now GOTM43 and this at the same time. :eek: I'm not afraid though, bring it on! ;)
Never tried a SG before, but I've been lurking during SGOTM5 so I've seen the drill.

Gender: M (just to get those he-she and his-her right).
Style of play: Micromanaging tech freak. I rarely spend less than 40 hours on a game, I just can't seem to leave those tiles alone. Also I have to restrain myself from all out research at all times. My only GOTM award (so far) reflects this well, a diplomatic one in GOTM41 (sorry about that MOTH :blush: ). I used to suck at warmongering, but I'm slowly learning.
Favorite civ: Ottomans (imagine that :D). Industrious goes with MMing, and Scientific with tech freak. Persia is fine as well, though the Sipahi is better than the Immortal for most games.
Favorite unit: Sipahi
Favorite wonder: Leo's. Upgrading horsemen to Sipahi for 80 gp is better than 160 gp...
Favorite bonus resource: Cow on plains (sheep are identical, can you tell I love this start? :D)

This will be a great game, and quoting WarDance, I'm really looking forward to meeting (and cooperating with) you all!

this isnt hard as standard deity because of the several reasons
we will probably be alone on the island (they have said it they want to prevent 30 turn games)
arhipelago map
we have exelent start (3 bonus resources and a river, it's hard to get a river in star in arhipelago map)
cool civ
we will have a LOT of wonders because of the leader farming (c3c players cant rush wonders but they will have a monster army 16.8.4 16 HP sipahi army, but they cant use RCP & they cant have another core and our workers work 100% faster their workers work 50 % faster.)

I played AWE but never AWD ( im doing some training games but i allways fall way back in tech :( )


@wardance
deity isnt so hard after you master emperor
I strugled to jump from monarch to emperor but the jump to deity was easy

I have some thoughts on how to begin this game.
We can either expect to be alone on our island, something I too find highly likely, in which case top priorities should be Pottery and a granary. We have easy material for a 6-turn combo factory if we settle in place, so that seems an easy enough decision. If we are not alone we might be in serious trouble if we take this route though.

I've been doing some calculations on the starting sequence, and it's possible to get Pottery on turn 16 and granary on turn 18, with one scouting warrior and one MP warrior before it. The MP is crucial, otherwise we need to devote too much commerce to luxuries and thus take much longer on Pottery. First settler is out on turn 22 and then every 6 turns, going from sizes 3-5 for minimal luxury dependency. I'll post a spread sheet with the data shortly.

I'm not quite sure what to expect from an AW game, but a few things stand out in my mind:
We'll have to do practically all research ourselves. Since we have cheap libraries from being scientific, we should probably build a few. Also the Great Library might be the difference between a win and a loss. Literature thus seems to me a high priority. We should probably also dedicate an early town to a pre-build for the GLib (assuming we're alone).
In any normal game I'd go straight for Republic, but is that feasible in an AW game? It could be if we could have many short wars, eliminating each opponent quickly after we meet them, but that will hardly work on Deity level. More likely we'll be way behind in tech and will have to struggle for every step into their territory. In republic, slow wars mean War Weariness, something I had quote enough of in GOTM42. Monarchy seems the better option to me.
Apart from the above, our top priority research-wise should be MT to get those Sipahi. They'll put up a good show even against Riflemen, so beelining through the MA seems the way to go.
Does this make any sense?

Here's the promised starting sequence:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/startseq2.jpg

Compliments to Offa should he read this once the game is over. :hatsoff:

The yellow/orange color means growth, the green means build finished. The workers should probably go off roading towards new city sites after finishing the above sequence.

Comments?

Holy cow! :eek: What the heck is that?! :crazyeye: Man, I am going to learn so much from you guys, I can tell already! :)

:lol: That's what happens once you stay here for too long, you don't realize that others don't know everything a fanatic should know. ;)
Alright, here's a more thorough explanation. :)

The rows represent the turns we play, first turn is 0. The blueish area represents the tiles that the citizens of Istanbul, our capitol, work at. bg means bonus grassland, g for grassland, pl for plains. The letters that follow the tile name signifies tile improvements, i.e. mine, irrigation and road for m, i and r. A + means the tile is on the river.
Every time a city grows, the governor gets to place an extra citizen, and the shields from that tile will count immediately. The parenthesized tiles are my (probably accurate, they're not that hard) estimates of the tiles the governor will choose assuming we tell him to maximize production.
The Food + column marks the food surplus each turn, while the Food tot column is the amount of food currently in the silo. Once we hit 20+ (or 10+ after granary) we grow and get an extra citizen.
The Shields column is the number of shields produced each turn, and the Prod the total production towards the nearest goal. Beakers and Research follow the same pattern, but from the mark "Lux 10%" we must deduct one commerce each turn, thus 6 instead of 7... doh, I just see I've counted wrong, it should be 5 instead of 6. Hmm, that means Pottery will be delayed one turn. We can still switch the pre-build on the interturn though, hmm...
Anyway, the Worker column notes the actions of our first worker, should be straight-forward. An ?x means ? finishes that turn.

Does that make more sense? :)

Btw, just noticed that the saves are up (though I'm not sure that's official). Here's our save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC4000_01.SAV

I checked it, and our opponents are India, Zulu, Arabia, Persia, Vikings and America. Let's just hope we don't share an island with Shaka, and with Ragnar on the next Island...

Edit: Regarding the roster, I wouldn't mind going early, being a better MMer than warmonger...

Niklas - Firing it up!!
Durkz - warming up
MOTH - be back 22
Elmarae - no word from her yet
WarDance - dancing
zyxy - same as el

Nice Spreadsheet Nk
Glib is a must

Edit:
Nk because you are first to play you play 20 turns (3000 BC) then we go with standar 10 (these are the rules)

Got it! (though I'm sure I said that already ;))

And I also started playing, got so far as to settle Sogut (must be the modded names), and what do I see? This:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/sogut.jpg

Yep, you got that right, another sheep tile! :D :D
... which of course spoils all my carefully laid plans, since we can now have a 4-turn factory instead. It's bedtime though, so that'll have to be tomorrow. :(

Another positive thing is that there seems to be land all around the sea to the north (it is an ocean, not a lake, only 1f from the tiles), which might help our RCP a bit.

Amazing, Niklas. Simply amazing.

A question I'll throw out there... well a statement first. I've seen people post about how completion of research on a tech can make it cheaper for the AI to research it. Is this true? If so, would it perhaps be a good idea to go for map making first and get some ships started, all the while having a pre build for the G. Library going? Then research Lit?

Amazing, Niklas. Simply amazing.

A question I'll throw out there... well a statement first. I've seen people post about how completion of research on a tech can make it cheaper for the AI to research it. Is this true? If so, would it perhaps be a good idea to go for map making first and get some ships started, all the while having a pre build for the G. Library going? Then research Lit?

yes it gets cheaper but AI just doesnt want to reasearch Literature so cheaper or not they dont want it.
the only time when the AI gets GL is:

A- human is not going for it
B- they poped literature from a hut
C- player trades literature to them
D- radioaktive monkey gives it to them :D

but if we fail to get Glib we are in deep s...

About our rivals, I am really glad not to see Carthage, Greece, or Rome in there. My AA wars with them tend to stall out more quickly than I anticipate with those great defensive UU's.

I'm at work now without access to my nice spreadsheet tools so I can't show anything pretty right now. But it's clear that we can have a 4-turn settler factory running as low as sizes 2-4, or a warrior-settler combo factory at sizes 4.5-6.5. The latter obviously needs some more worker time to set up, but I still think we should go for it. The increased luxury rate will probably be compensated by increased commerce in any case.

4.5->5.0: 3xSheep i, BG m, forest on growth => 11sh (warrior done)
5.0->5.5: 3xSheep i, BG m, Oyster => 9sh (9)
5.5->6.0: 3xSheep i, BG m, Oyster, forest on growth => 11sh (20)
6.0->6.5: 3xSheep i, BG m, Oyster, Pl i => 10sh (30, settler done)

A great thing about this setup is that the MMing work needed is minimal, just take care to move the citizen off the forest every other turn. :)

Signing in, sorry for the delay, I was on a forced vacation from the net due to not paying my phone bill...

hi El :wavey:

only zyxy is not signed in (not counting MOTH) i will send a email to him
combo factory is beter then just settler fac.
we need units more thans we need cities
if we expand to much and have weak military it will be hard for us to defend

we should build barracks in sogut so we can upgrade those warriors to swords and counter attack

Edit:
cant send email to zyxy

Sorry! That user has specified that they do not wish to receive emails. If you still wish to send an email to this user, please contact the administrator and they may be able to help.

Aye, a barracks is good to get all those warriors veteran. You'll love this sequence then:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/startseq3.jpg

I'm getting my hands dirty. :)

Gee, I'm back already asking for advice. I've played 6 turns so far, and already met India and Zulu (across the water luckily). Full story will follow, but so far I've traded for Alphabet, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, and Pottery.
So the question is, what now? Writing costs 320, I think we can beat 40 turns to it with a good margin since we'll have a new town every four turns, should I go for it at max? Other alternatives are Mysticism at max (costs 160, on the way to Monarchy) or Writing at min to save money. If I don't hear anything fairly soon I'll go for the first alternative.

hm... tugh question

go for writing at max then we should go for literature at max then we should go for ironworking (or trade it from another civ if we meet them) at medium (we need some money to upgrade those warriors to swords, because when the india & zulu get MapMaking there will be unloads of 3-4 units every turn)

I second Durkz on the research path. I'm glad we were able to trade for alphabet. Would have been a bummer to have to research that in addition to everything else.

Alright, Writing at max it is. :)

Doh, I just realized that we're not Militaristic, so barracks don't cost 20 but 40. This screws up the plan big time. One option is to build it anyway, then a worker and two settlers in row (to never grow to 7) for settlers at turn 27, 30, and then every 4 turns. Another option is to build two warriors instead of the barracks, use all those regulars for MPs and build barracks everywhere else. I reckon the former, but I don't have to decide for a while so you still have the chance to stop me. ;)

Alright, Writing at max it is. :)

Doh, I just realized that we're not Militaristic, so barracks don't cost 20 but 40. This screws up the plan big time. One option is to build it anyway, then a worker and two settlers in row (to never grow to 7) for settlers at turn 27, 30, and then every 4 turns. Another option is to build two warriors instead of the barracks, use all those regulars for MPs and build barracks everywhere else. I reckon the former, but I don't have to decide for a while so you still have the chance to stop me. ;)
that is a good idea too
I just saw that you traded for warrior code so we should go with a second plan, pump settlers from sogut and use other towns to build archers and spears (spears can beat tanks :D)
in regular games i never build spears but because this is AWD we will be on defense many times so we need them

Edit: you dont have to ask me about MM because you probaly know more then me about it (i said i suck at it) but when the wars start it will be my time to shine :)

Alright, I've played my turns with varying results. :(

First of all, here's the new save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC3000_01.SAV

And here's the full story:

4000 BC:
Durkztanbul founded, initial build Warrior.
Move initial worker Niklas N. Lots of bonus resources around.
Research Pottery at 100%.

3950 BC:
Niklas starts road.

3900 BC:
Switch citizen to work the sheep that will be roaded this turn.

3850 BC:
Niklas road->irrigate.

3800 BC:
A really eventful turn. An Indian warrior comes to hail across the water to
the North. He's nice and all, wants to trade us Alphabet and CB for BW and
Masonry. He'll even throw in an extra 2gp. I'll take it of course.
Durkztanbul warrior->warrior.
WarDance, our first scout, moves South and spots Olives on a hill! M-B is
feeling mighty generous I presume.
And finally, war on Gandhi, poor sod.

3750 BC:
Heh, this is starting to be amusing. Shaka pops up to the NE, jolly nice chap.
He will give us Pottery(!), Warrior Code and all his 10gp for BW and Masonry.
I know he gets the best deal, but this is our only chance.
I also note that he has two cities already, and I can't swear that he's not
on the same island as we are. *shudder*
WarDance continues south and finds no less than two incense hills.
Niklas finished irrigation and moves SE.

I set research to Writing on max. It costs 320, but I still think we'll be
able to beat 40 turns to it with some turns to spare.

Oh, and war on Shaka of course. :)

3700 BC:
WarDance climbs the hill of Oliva, spots two Goat tiles (Cow equiv). This is
becoming ridiculus... not that you'll hear me complain.
Niklas starts irrigation.

3650 BC:
WarDance south to Incensia Oestre, spots an FP Wheat and a hut. I'm going to
pop it, come rain come shine.

3600 BC:
Durkztanbul warrior->granary.
Since Pottery is already netted, I'll use Elmarae for scouting as well.
Luxury to 20%
Niklas irrigate->road.
WarDance W towards mountain hut, Elmarae SE.

3550 BC:
WarDance pops the hut, of course its 4 warriors. At least he's on a mountain.
Elmarae W along the coast.

3500 BC:
Cultural borders expand.
WarDance defends flawlessly agains one barbie on the IBT, then kills a second
(two were grouped so he returned to the mountain) while losing 1 hp.
Elmarae W, spots another barbie that was none of my doing!
Niklas finished irrigation, moves SW-S.

3450 BC:
Damn, they're coming from all directions! This can only spell disaster!
WarDance moves NE towards home, Elmarae moves W towards home, Niklas runs NE
towards the protection of Elmarae. Never mind the starting plans, this is
live or die!

3400 BC:
Niklas starts mine.
Elmarae moves SW towards the river.
WarDance W.

3350 BC:
Playing cat and mouse with the barbies, two of them on each side.
WarDance fortifies on the hill, while Elmarae has to fortify on a plains (but
with full hp).
Durkztanbul to size 3, luxuries to 30% to cover.

3300 BC:
WarDance is now fully healed, still fortifies on the hill.
Elmarae stays where she is. Another barbie appears in the east.

3250 BC:
Niklas finished mine, crosses the river under the protection of Elmarae.

3200 BC:
WarDance triumphs over a barbie but loses one hp, regained immediately from
healing.
Niklas starts irrigation, Elmarae fortifies to protect.

3150 BC:
Elmarae is attacked twice, wins and is promoted to veteran. Stays to protect
Niklas from harm.
WarDance is not so lucky, he is attacked while sleeping and cannot even inflict
one hp loss on the evil barbie.

3100 BC:
Durkztanbul granary->warrior.
It's becoming obvious that we won't be able to get Writing in less than 40,
that would require making 10bpt on average for the next 27 turns. I was
clearly too optimistic. I'm going to cut our losses and put the slider to
minimum since the granary now starts to cost gold.
Niklas irrigation->road.

3050 BC:
Nothing to report.

3000 BC:
Durkztanbul warrior->warrior.
WarDance is revived, hopefully with better luck.

Here's the world at 3000 BC:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/at3000.jpg

The Indians are to the North, west of the fish, the Zulu Northeast of the Oyster.

Clearly we could have gotten a better start, in hindsight I should probably not have popped that hut. :( But the ones from the SE would have come anyway...

And here's the intended sequence for the following turns. Note that there's some MMing to do before the factory starts to run of itself.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/next10.jpg

Durkz, hope you can kick some barbie a**.

Niklas - just played
Durkz - Kicking some barbie a..
MOTH - skip until 22
Elmarae - on deck
WarDance - unfortunatly WarDance got attacked by a barb an died :(
zyxy - no word from him yet

great turns Nk

dont worry about barbs i find them simpatic
as soon as we get some towns we'l build some archers and send those barbs to their resting place.
Hm.. we sholud go for RCP 3 (cxxc) because we need to shift units from city to city in one turn and we will get a higher unit support this way

I will play this tomorow it's too late here 1.01 AM

anyway "got it"

Hi All,
I still won't be able to play for another week. I'm online in a sandwich shop in Maui, but might get online later if the baby needs a ap and I take a car ride.

Hi All,
I still won't be able to play for another week. I'm online in a sandwich shop in Maui, but might get online later if the baby needs a ap and I take a car ride.
hey MOTH :salute:

umm.... sandwich.... im hungry must.....ge..get.....som.....some....foooooood

Hi guys,

just reporting in quickly. I'm generally out of internet/civ until may 18 inclusive. Looking forward to this game! Will try to read up with our progress asap.

...cant send email to zyxy....

PM will work :)

Looks good, Niklas.

Can someone remind me what the olives give? Is it one xtra food on hills? Been a while since I played a game with these resources. Are there any additional luxes in this resource set? I remember wool...

Here you go WarDance: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm21_features.shtml

Speaking of links, I hope you've found the War Academy here at CFC. If not, go read it, there's some really great articles there, especially the ones by Cracker and Bamspeedy. http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3academy.shtml

Oh, and sorry about killing you off like that, hope you feel better now... :crazyeye:

Hmm, Olives are supposed to give +2 food according to that file (and also according to the graphics, green dots mean food), but IIRC (at work now) the Olives in the desert on the west coast only displayed 1 food on right-click...? Either I'm just hallucinating, or there's something wrong with those bonuses. The Oliva hill should give 2f in despotism in any case.

I agree with the tight city placement, RCP 3-6 seems a good option. Ring 3 gives no good locations accross the water, but once we get that far I reckon we'll have more pressing matters than RCP placement. :D

Oh, and where did I put those good manners again?
:wavey: Hello Elmarae, MOTH and zyxy. Glad to see all accounted for. :)

Hi guys,

just reporting in quickly. I'm generally out of internet/civ until may 18 inclusive. Looking forward to this game! Will try to read up with our progress asap.




hey zyxy


PM will work :)


well i saw that you havent not loged in since 13 may and i wanted to send you an email to remind you that the game has started but now it's ok

>>>Da Save<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC2550_01.SAV)


turn0 3000 BC -- mOve Niklas on a plain move Wardance to protect it. Move El towarards the olive hill. Hit space.

turn1 2950 BC -- Niklas sntarts irigating. Durkztanbul>Warrior>Settler. fortify zyxy and Wardance in it to act as an MP. Lux down to 20 %. move el on the olive hill spot barbie. btw civilopedia says that olives add bonus 1 food & 2 gold not 2 food and 1 gold like it's shown in the graphics.

turn2 2900 BC -- niklas starting to mine the bg. El on a olive hill two barbie there.

IBT- el gets attacked by a barb and wins with no hp lost.

turn3 2850 BC -- el attack the other barb and kills him, settler in one.

turn4 2800 BC -- El to the goat mountain spot a barb hut 2 tiles S, only one warrior in it. Settler is of and i send zyxy with him.

turn5 2750 BC -- settler is in position on the forest by the river. El comes near barb camp but there are 2 warriors in it now.

turn6 2710 BC -- iznik founded>archer. there is only one warrior left in the barb camp (one left SE) and she attacks it and destroys it

IBT-- El is attacked by a barb redlined but promotes to elite. zyxy is attacked by a barb in iznik redlined but kills the barb.

turn7 2670 BC -- we add a first floor to our palace. el fortify to heal. Lux to 30%

turn8 2630 BC -- another settler is on his way escorted by MOTH. Lux to 20 %.

IBT--zyxy got attacked by another barb but wins

turn9 2590 BC -- not much.

turn10 2550 BC -- Ulanbator founded>archer

India has 4 cities zulu have 3 and we have 3. Not bad at all.

Just a note when the Durkztambul grows from size 4 to 5 and 5 to 6 the citizen is added to forest tile so you have to change this manualy to irigated plain when size and to the unimproved BG every time. uskudar is not using the unimproved BG tile because we need it when Durkztambul grows to size 6 (uskudar can use it when Durkztambul is not at size 6 or)

Niklas -
Durkz - just played
MOTH - skip until 22
Elmarae - UP!
WarDance - on deck
zyxy -

So MOTH is up next? Could we make it a habit of including the roster at the end of the turn log. It saves on time searching back through the pages to last time someone did a roster, expecially when you are playing with the same people in different SG's. In SGOTM6 I was after jb but I was before him in R&L03 or was it the other way round?

Edit: Huh?? Durkz posted a roster a good 20 mins before my post... I don't recall seeing it. oh well guess that is blond moment: 9

So MOTH is up next? Could we make it a habit of including the roster at the end of the turn log. It saves on time searching back through the pages to last time someone did a roster, expecially when you are playing with the same people in different SG's. In SGOTM6 I was after jb but I was before him in R&L03 or was it the other way round?

Edit: Huh?? Durkz posted a roster a good 20 mins before my post... I don't recall seeing it. oh well guess that is blond moment: 9

khm... 34 minutes to be exact :mischief:

well you're up have fun killing barbs

turn1 2950 BC -- Niklas sntarts irigating. ...

turn2 2900 BC -- niklas starting to mine the bg.

I must admit I'm feeling a bit fragmented here... :crazyeye:


India has 4 cities zulu have 3 and we have 3. Not bad at all.

Definitely not bad at all! And since we're catching up already, with our 4-turn factory we'll probably pass them in not too long. Sweet! :)


Just a note when the Durkztambul grows from size 4 to 5 and 5 to 6 the citizen is added to forest tile so you have to change this manualy to irigated plain when size and to the unimproved BG every time. uskudar is not using the unimproved BG tile because we need it when Durkztambul grows to size 6 (uskudar can use it when Durkztambul is not at size 6 or)

The real reason should be that Iznik is using the irrigated Plains tile. This tells me we need another worker that could help improve a few tiles for Iznik, thus leaving that tile to Durkztanbul and the BG to Uskudar. Elmarae, would you get one out according to the scheme I outlined above? :)

Edit: And here's my MMmania again. You should probably put the sci slider down to 10%, Durkztanbul will never go below 9 commerce again.

Layout suggestion:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Durkz_layout.jpg

It looks a bit strange around the river to the SE, but that's due to the mountains messing it all up...

I'd say the most important one to settle is the one by the Wheat, both since it will be a powerhouse of itself, but also because it will bring the Olives and the BG tile into the range of Iznik and Uskudar. Second could be the one 3 SW of Uskudar, since it will bring the goats into the range of both itself, Uskudar and the one by the Wheat.

Btw, the tool I'm using is CivAssist II, you should all check it out. I've only started using it so I don't know everything about it yet, but it looks really promising!

i will download the net framework tonight (dialup it will probably take me 2 hours) but it will be ok because i will play gotm43

Umm... El? A 'got it' would be nice. :)

Got it....

Great. :)
I don't want to push you or anything, just trying to make sure you weren't having a 10th... ;) :p

>>>The Save<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC2110_01.SAV)

[Preflight]
Happiness: check
Science: Changed to 10% (Writing still in 15)

Turn 01: 2510 BC
Elmarae is attacked by a barb and defends (losing 4hp!)
Hardworking Niklas starts a road
Lux: Up to 30% to stop Durkzanbul from rioting

Turn 02: 2470 BC
Durkzanbul > Settler > Worker
ZyXy defends in Iznik against barbarian horde of 1

Turn 03: 2430 BC
Durkzanbul > Worker > Settler
Elmarae's Slave starts road
Niklas follows settler to road to Incense.

Turn 04: 2390 BC

Turn 05: 2350 BC
Elmarae attacks Barbarian and wins.

Turn 06: 2310 BC
Elmarae attacks Barbarian and wins.

Turn 07: 2270 BC
Founded Elmville > Archer

turn 08: 2230 BC


turn 09: 2190 BC
Elmarae dies defending Elmville. Elmville is ransacked losing 36 gold.
Viking build Colossus in Nidaros
Found Elmton

Barbarians how have horsemen!

turn 10: 2150 BC
Durkztanbul > Settler > Worker
Uskudar > Archer > Spear

Left moves on the settler, to let the next player decide where to send it.

I had installed CivAssist II but everytime I went new turn Civ crashed, persisted through this 3 or 4 times and then closed CivAssist and it worked fine. I'll reinstall CA II and test it again.

Roster

Niklas -
Durkz -
MOTH - skip until 22
Elmarae - just played!
WarDance - UP!
zyxy - on deck

Great turns El! I was worried that the barbies would hamper our expansion by threatening or even capturing settlers, but you seem to have them suitably chastised. :goodjob: Too bad you had to die in the process... :crazyeye:

I see you've been taxing poor Durkztanbul quite hard for fast expansion. My suggestion for WarDance would be to let it recover up to size 4.5 again before pumping out another worker or settler. If we continously run it from sizes 4.5->6.5 for a warrior/settler or sizes 4.5->5.5 for a warrior/worker (i.e. always a warrior in between), we pretty much get all those warriors "for free".

Btw, it seems that our settler factory is starting to pay off, check out the score graph. I know, I know, it doesn't really mean anything for the end result, but too me it's still a self-confidence boost. It will be interesting to see the QSC results. :)

WarDance, see if you can play a merry tune for those poor barbies. I doubt they can dance though, filthy geats ain't got no rhythm...

Got it! Will be able to play it today or tomorrow morning at the latest. Any other tips or suggestions from you pro's before I start it up?

Here's a few thoughts for you: :)

Writing will be finished soon, next step should IMO be Literature at high speed. We badly need the GLib, and I don't trust the AI to skip Literature at this level. Also whatever other tech we might need, such as IW and Myst, we'll have it as soon as we have the GLib.
We should also dedicate a town right away for a GLib pre-build. This should be either Uskudar or Iznik, the other two have too much waste (CA2 reports 31% and 47% respectively, 17% for the two at ring 3). They are pretty much equivalent in terms of growth and production potential, but I would vote Iznik (named it after me, Durkz? ;)). I would vote switching Iznik to the Great Wall right away, or after the Archer. Make sure that Iznik always has the tiles it needs (without hampering the factory in Durkztanbul), let workers prioritize it and plan well in advance. Mining the BG should be an early priority. NB. No forest chops! I've done that once too many, if we ever rush a single shield in Iznik in any way possible, we can never switch to a wonder.
As I said in the previous post, let Durkztanbul recover to become a 4-turn factory again. Any 20 shields will do, either 2 warriors to use as MPs in Iznik, or an archer or spearman.
Clear out that barbie camp, and explore more of the island, particularly to the SE. The worst thing that could happen is that an unopposed barbie sacks Iznik and destroys our work on the GLib...


Easy to say, harder to do, but I'm sure you're more than up to it. :)

checking in....

background: male, age 33. I used to be a builder-type player, but I have become more and more violent lately :). Solid emperor level, have played and won some diety and AWE games.

I generally agree with the strategy outlined by Niklas. A 4-turn settler-warrior factory is very powerful. Literature and the GLib are useful to get through the end of the AA and the early MA. We cannot get to our enemies until fairly late in the game (we need boats), so staying in the techrace is key.
After Literature, I would target IronW, MapMaking, and Math, probably in that order. IronW probably at high speed, so that we can see if we have any Iron, the others could be 40-turn projects.

I would build warriors rather than archers or spears at this moment, until we get close to the free support level. A warrior defends like an archer, attacks like a spear, and for only half the production cost :D. (This means warriors give more flexibility). ATM we need more units, to explore, defend and bust fog. Besides, warriors upgrade nicely.

Monarchy is definitely the government type to go for. WW would be killing in Republic.

Here's a new layout suggestion:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Durkz_layout2.jpg

The major difference is that the locations in the west/southwest have moved a bit further west than before. The main reason for this is that I believe the C location next to the desert olives will be high on shields (though with a lot of waste initially) but low on food, so it will probably need that FP tile badly.
The two Cs are placed on the boundary between two tiles, some more explanation is needed to determine the western one. The one to the east should probably be placed out on the peninsula, but I'd hate for it to flip to the Zulus. Also BG tiles are precious...

In any case, the three Cs should be settled first, order is less important.

.

I would build warriors rather than archers or spears at this moment, until we get close to the free support level. A warrior defends like an archer, attacks like a spear, and for only half the production cost :D. (This means warriors give more flexibility). ATM we need more units, to explore, defend and bust fog. Besides, warriors upgrade nicely.


warriors are no good for fighting barbs on deity, i agree they are better on lower levels but on deity you dont get any bonus against barbs (it's tough to clear barbs from dificult terrain) , so wee need 5-6archers for barb hunting, we should have IV by the time the AI gets MM so we will fight with swords against them (if we have iron)

It's obvius that we are alone on our island
Graph looks good we are gaining on C3C deity players (deity in C3C has a higher score multiplier)
We have 5 cities + 1 settler india has 5 cities and zulu have 4 cities
good we have more cities than deity AI in the early stage of the game that's realy something :goodjob:

All right, got it. Temples in every city and disband all military... will do. :D

Just kidding. Will play and post in the morning.

edit: ok,ok, not funny eh? playing now and i'll be serious ;)

All right, got it. Temples in every city and disband all military... will do. :D


:lol: Gee that'd be something. If we build a single temple before 0 AD I'll eat my hat :hatsoff: (Not that I have one, so it's an empty threat, but still...) :p

warriors are no good for fighting barbs on deity, i agree they are better on lower levels but on deity you dont get any bonus against barbs (it's tough to clear barbs from dificult terrain) , so wee need 5-6archers for barb hunting
I'll take the middle ground here. You're right that we need a few archers for barb hunting, but that's a very temporary investment. The minute we get IW, the archers are more or less obsolete. Every warrior we can crank out is a long term investment in the protection of our island. I assume we'll have iron, I think m-b wants us to have a fair chance. :rolleyes:
I'd say 4-5 archers to get the barbies out of our immediate face, after that the swords can handle them.

The really long term investment is neither though, but rather horsemen for upgrading to Sipahi. We should get TW as soon as the GLib is done, and from then on most towns should focus on mounted units. Barracks will come in handy too by then.

All right, it's been a rough day but I've finally finished. Let's see, I broke my toe this morning, then had to make 3 trips to my son's school, the baby would NOT take a nap... blah blah blah.

The Save- 1750BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC1750_01.SAV)

1) 2110 BC: settler moves s,w,sw. Durkz switches to warrior. Writing in 4 turns

IBT: Barb horse moves to sheep mountains. Barb moves to mountain N of spice. Bugger. I really want to move the workers to road the incense but if I move to either they can't be protected.

2) 2070 BC: Move settlers NE to grass land. Move settler and archer SW to forest. Wounded archer fortifies in Elmville. Entertainment to 10%. Move a couple citizens around for very slight increase in production and one extra coin. Wahoo!

IBT: Barb horse kills wounded archer and sacks Elmville. Lose one citizen. Barb moves to incense south of workers.

3) 2030 BC: Workers roading grassland. I'd really prefer they were roading incense or even the olives but there was no way to get an escort for them and they are too valuable to lose. New archer from Iznik named Dances with Barbs moves to protect workers. He is joined by Wardance. Iznik begins pre build for Glib. New warrior sent south towards Elmville. Settler pair moves west and spots barb camp and boat to NW. Move citizen to make space for growth in Durkztanbul. Ent to 20% because only 1 MP in Durkz.

IBT: Barb moves W to other incense hill by Elmville.

4) 1990 BC: New warrior employed as MP in Durkz. Begin settler. Dances with Barbs goes after barbarian. Barb dances better than expected and kills DwB! An outrage! Wardance is furious and finishes the hooligan off, moving to incense hill. Workers see their chance to road a luxury and connect Elmville all in one go so they join Wardance on the hill. Second warrior accompanies the group for extra protection. Settler and archer move SW to proposed city site.

IBT: Writing!! Top speed to Lit is 24 at 80%, losing 1gpt.

5) 1950 BC: WarDance Estates founded. WarDance fortifies on incense hill to protect workers. Second warrior move os to Elmville. Workers begin roading incense.

IBT: Archer successfully defends Wardance Estates against barbarian attack. My pen runs out of ink.

6) 1910 BC: Warrior leaves Elmville to go after barb camp. Ent to 30%. I really wish I had someone to move to Elmton... it's still undefended.

IBT: incense roaded!

7) 1870 BC: Durkz builds settler, now warrior. Ent to 0%. Science to 90%. Literature in 17. Settler moves south 3 tiles. Workers move NE to mine grassland near Iznik. Warrior smashes barb camp SE of Elmville and finds 25 coins.

IBT: Barb horse appears on incense- damn. 2 workers on one tile and a settler on the next, all undefended.

8) 1830 BC: Uskudar builds spear, now archer. Spear moves NE,E,S. Can't quite make it to workers and settler, or Iznik on this turn. Takes me a little while to figure out how to best defend on this turn. New warrior from Durkz moves to protect workers. Wardance moves to Elmville which was momentarily undefended. Warrior that just busted the barb camp moves N, adjacent to Elmville. Settler moves NE +E to Forest. Barb horse can't reach him there. Zyxy moves to protect workers in case first warrior should fall. Ent to 20%

IBT: Barb horse appears on mountain next to settler! Elmton is still undefended and this horse is in striking range. Our roads still do not connect Elmton and the nearest warrior would have to cross a river on the way anyhow. Elmton will be pillaged next turn, I'm certain. :( 1st Barb horse moves further into our territory to olive hill.

9) 1790 BC: Spear to Iznik. Warrior to Elmville. Archer moves N from Wardance Estates and is adjacent to barb camp. That town is now undefended but will complete a warrior next turn and there are no barbs in striking distance there. Entertainment to 10%. Brave Wardance decides the barb horseman on the olives has trespassed far enough and destroys him, taking one hit himself. Settler moves SW to jungle with zyxy protecting. Workers move to olives. Warrior moves N, NE towards Elmton.

IBT: Elmton pillaged and citizen lost. :(

10) 1750 BC: Wardance Estates builds warrior who fortifies there. Archer clears barb camp N of Wardance Estates and finds some nice land up there. Wardance, wounded, moves S to incense hill. Workers are roading olive hill. Spear fortifies in Iznik. Settler pair moves S to BG by spice, spots goody hut east. Warrior moves east and can be in Elmton next turn. Warrior fortifies in Elmville. Ent to 20%.

Literature in 13 at -1gpt. 215 in bank.

will add screen in a sec, once i figure out how.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Durkz1750bc.JPG
There we go... wasn't too hard to figure out.

Anyway some afterthoughts:
I really wish I had sent an early warrior to Elmton. But then again, would I have been able to successfully defend Iznik, the workers and our settler? Probably. But in any case I really felt hard pressed to insure their safety. I've never had such problems with barbs. Are they set to raging? Or are barbs just this way on Deity?

About the Great Library, even with our pre build in Iznik going, I would bet that Durkztanbul would still be able to finish it faster once Literature is finished. If Iznik is to be successful, we need those spices roaded ASAP and some workers built in Durkz to be joined to Iznik. At least get it to size 6 or 7. I prioritized tiles in the Iznik area for the workers to improve because of the importance of the GLib pre build.

We need some more workers, but we still need more units for barb protection too. It's tough to balance right now.

Regarding the next city site: Should we settle that BG? What about settling right on the spices? That would of course put it at distance 7 instead of 6, but our RCP is a little skewed anyway with 2 cities at distance 3, one at 4, and 2 at 6. Advantages to settling on the spice: 1)don't have to road the jungle tile to hook up spices. 2)would be settling on the river, I believe. 3)would have a BG and a hill in it's immediate radius... nice production value. Just something I was thinking about.

Another thought: a granary down in Elmville would be powerful.

So, as this is my first succession game and first game on Deity, please let me know where I can improve. But don't make me cry, ok? :D

Got it. Will play in a few hours.

Initial thoughts:

We need more units. Too many towns are getting pillaged. I'll try to do something about it. We're only halfway the free support right now. A few more workers wouldn't hurt either.
India has Wheel and 5 cities, Zulu has Wheel, IW, Myst and 5 cities (as far as we can see). Not too bad. We may have a land connection to these guys. Not too bad either, but we'll need more units.
I'll keep the GLib in Iznik and let Durkz do settlers, warriors and workers. Iznik needs to grow a bit. I'll add workers.
Ring 6 is ugly near the spices and near the cow NW: could settle on bg in both cases, and I think that's best. Elmton had the same problem, and we also have an ugly ring 3 city up north, on a food bonus. I'll probably try a ring 4 city there, but I'll wait a bit for your input on all this.
I'll leave the GH for now.


map for proposed city placement:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM7_zyxy_cityloc1750BC.JPG

I played 4 turns, will finish the rest tonight or tomorrow (US west coast timezone).
Here is a pic. Yes, that's 2 cows to the west.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SGOTM7_zyxy_status1650BC.JPG

We just met Arabia (pink), to our SE. He knows Persia, has 0 gold, dyes(3), silks(1), IW, Wheel, Myst, lacks no tech, 4 cities. We can buy Wheel for about 120 gold or IW for about 190. I intend to do one of these two. I also intend to pop the 2 GH's while there is time. Surprising that expansionist Arabia didn't get them...

ooh oops Elmton is rank 4. Abandon it then. I forgot we were playing PTW where rank matters. :blush:

ooh oops Elmton is rank 4. Abandon it then. I forgot we were playing PTW where rank matters. :blush:
it deoesn matter if it's a ring 4 the thing is that we want cxxc placement for easy unit shifting

summary

We contacted the Arabs in 1650BC, bought the Wheel, and declared War. Arabia knows Persia. We founded 2 new cities, claimed a second luxury (spices), connected horses, explored almost the entire island and hopefully subdued the barbarian plague (destroyed one camp and a few units). Contrary to my initial thoughts, the Arabs are probably not on our island and so we can peacefully expand for a while. Our power is equal to that of our three known rivals and hence ridiculously high. We are 1 turn from researching Literature, and quite far from completing the Great Library. The Zulu have completed the Pyramids and the Oracle and are todays tough cookies.

The save
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC1500_01.SAV

turn log

Turn 0 (1750BC): everything looks good.

IBT: Durkz settl -> warr. Elmville archer -> warr.

Turn 1 (1725BC): zyxy E and sees a pink border. settl SE, decide to go for the spices. I send more troops (1 warr, 1 arch, 1 spear) this way, we'll have a hot war soon. Archer in the west sees another cow.

IBT: Durkz warr -> worker.

Turn 2 (1700BC): One worker to E of Elmville to R(oad), one to NW to R. Spicy Fortress founded -> warr. 2 more warr goes that way. Found barb camp S-S-SE of Elmton. See another GH S-SE of SF. Sacrifice some growth in Uskudar to get archer 1 turn sooner. We need troops more than pop right now. lux 30%.

IBT: barb warr shows up NW. Durkz worker -> warr.

Turn 3 (1675BC): Still no word from the pink civ (not in shift-D or F4). I am not eager to seek contact. New worker will road to Elmton. Move 1 warr of the Pink Force to Elmville. lux 10%. sci 90%

IBT: Durkz warr -> worker. Uskudar archer -> warr.

Turn 4 (1650BC): we now know Arabia (pink). Arabia knows Persia, has 0 gold, Dyes (3), Silks (1), IW, Wheel, Myst, 4 cities. We cannot trade tech but buy wheel for about 120 or IW for about 190.
Arabs: Wheel <-> 117
There are horses near Durkz. Arabs also have HBR. DoW on Arabs.

IBT: Barb warr & horse from South. Zulu built Pyr in Zimbabwe. Wardance Est warr -> warr. Durkz worker -> warr.

Turn 5 (1625BC): workers continue to build more roads. Worker4 will connect horses. Barb camp in SE has spawned a horse. I'll await his attack on a mountain. Zyxy's Cattlefarm founded -> warr. messed up MP's -> lux 20%.

IBT: Indians want to talk, we refuse. Barb horse attacks warr on mountain and loses. Durkz warr -> settl. Can build FP. Iznik sw to palace prebuild. Elmville warr -> worker. Zulu built Oracle in Bapedi. Another barb horse appears from S; apparently Arabs have some trouble cleaning their backyard.

Turn 6 (1600BC): Spot barb camp N-N-N of Zyxy's C. Shuffling MP's -> lux 10%, sci 90%.

IBT: The barbs move in mysterious ways. Uskudar warr -> warr.

Turn 7 (1575BC): warriors move, workers road, nothing much.

IBT: Horses connected.

Turn 8 (1550BC): barb horse defeated. Spicy Fortress (and spices) is now also connected. Uskudar sw to chariot. Destroy barb camp in NW, see purple (Indian) border.

IBT: barb warr near Elmsville flees back S :crazyeye:. Durkz settl -> warr. Elmton archer -> warr.

Turn 9 (1525BC): One of our warriors ventures into Arab land and discovers why Arabs don't hunt our barbs :blush:. As a consequence, Zyxy's C sw to temple (prebuild for library). Wardance Est sw to worker. Spicy Fortress sw to worker. Elmton sw to worker. Spot barb camp SW. sci 100%. lux 0%.

IBT: another barb horse bites the dust at Dead Barb Mountain. Wardance Est worker -> worker. Durkz warr -> settl.

Turn 10 (1500BC): more exploration. We have an almost complete map of our island. sci 90%, lux 0%, we'll still get Lit in 1 turn.

Notes for the next player


With a bit of MM, Durkz can be run as a 4-turn warr-settl or a 2-turn warr-worker factory. It will need the bg NE of Uskudar every second turn I think.
The purple civ to our North is India in an odd color.
I hope I unfortified all units outside cities.
Please consider adding some workers to Iznik.
The settler W of Uskudar is meant for N-N of Zyxy's C. The temple in Zyxy's C is meant as a prebuild for a library to get the second cow in range. The chariot is Uskudar could be changed to a settl. Of course, feel free to change as you like.
There are 2 barb camps on our island.

I guess I'm up, so got it! Don't know how much I can play today though, will play tomorrow otherwise.

Wow, things are really heating up! Great turns both WarDance and zyxy. :goodjob:

Good idea to settle directly on the spices. It will make that town considerably less productive initially (~40% vs ~60% waste), but all the others a lot more so, particularly Iznik that can now grow another pop without rioting.

I will definitely add a few workers to Iznik. I'll finish the current settler build in Durkztanbul, then two workers at least (with warrs between). I even consider letting Iznik work at least one forest, and let it rely on Durkztanbul for growth. Maybe not right away, but still. How does that sound?

The next city should be on the barbie camp to the SE, so I'll make those wretches my topmost military goal. Popping the hut there with a city build also guarantees that we won't get more barbies. :D

ooh oops Elmton is rank 4. Abandon it then. I forgot we were playing PTW where rank matters. :blush:

It seems to me that this map was intentionally designed to force teams to really think hard about sticking to RCP vs placing cities to take advantage of resources and terrain. Didn't MB say the map was "hand built"? I think we've done well with our city placement. And looking to the future: if we were to build the FP in Iznik for example, RCP won't matter anyway. And of course as Niklas said we need to be able to move units quickly from town to town. No worries about Elmton's placement. It's good where it is if you ask me.

I've been thinking about Elmville... With all the food potential down there it would be really advantageous if we could turn it into a worker pump. What do we need? 5 shields per turn, or 4 per turn with an extra two on growth? Niklas, master of the micromanagement spreadsheet, can it be done? This way Durkztanbul can simply concentrate on settlers/ warriors.

Guys we need more offensive units, we have too few.
Barbs have galys, that means that two civs have MM and the uloads will begin soon.
Warriors cant fight with swords (all civs have IW), but archers can and spear can (on the right terrain)
zyxy cattle farm should be switched from temple to archer (or spear), we dont need temple in it to get that cow, just build a town north of it, and elmton should be swiched from worker to archer (or spear).

I played most of my turns last night, the rest this morning. A short summary of this turnset:
Barbies are off the island.
Two more towns settled, one settler on the move.
Iznik is size 7, GLib due in 19 turns. Can shave a few more turns off that if we borrow the sheep tile from Durkztanbul and mine a hills tile, and/or join another worker to it.
We have a map of (our half of) the world.
We have iron, should be connected in 3 turns.

The save is >>here<<! (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC1250_01.SAV)

Preflight: Move a few units to prepare for Operation Ken vs Barbie.
Leave the rest as is, Uskudar can easily build a settler after the chariot
without hitting the happiness roof.

IBT: Barbie attacks archer across the S river, takes one hp. Literature researched, switch to IW at 100%, ETA 7 turns. -1gpt. Elmville worker->granary. Could be a 2-turn worker pump, but only with a granary.

1475 BC:A new barbie horseman in the E camp. Attack the camp with an archer who dies flawlessly. Attack with another who kills the barbie but loses one hp.
Attack the horseman with a warrior who loses one hp but wins, camp dispersed.
Use warrior to pop the GH S of Spicy Fortress, three barbs. Sigh. zyxy back towards Spicy F.
Warrior S onto the land tongue, spots the definite end of our lands with
another barbie camp on it. Second warrior follows.
Worker starts mining the Olives.
Shuffle tiles a bit, sacrifice one turn growth in Uskudar to get Chariot one
turn earlier.

IBT: One barbie attacks SF and promotes the spearman to veteran. Another attacks the warrior who popped the GH and takes one hp. The third moves N. SF worker->worker. Uskudar chariot->settler.

1450 BC:Lose an archer and a warrior in attacking the S camp. I hate the RNG. Send the chariot down to guard Elmville. Fortify most units to recover lost hp. Lux 10%.

IBT: Last barbie attacks zyxy and loses. Durkztanbul settler->warrior. The Zulus have Map Making, since they start that high shining thingey.

1425 BC:Join Niklas to Iznik, now size 5. Great Library in 46 turns, I decide to work those forests instead. Now due in 36 turns, but with potential for more. Disperse the camp on the southern tip, losing one warrior.

IBT: Durkztanbul warrior->worker.

1400 BC:Join worker to Iznik, now size 6. Lux 10%. Too bad the extra shield was taken by waste, but at least one more will come from the mined Olives this turn. ETA on GLib now 28 turns.
Nikozia founded 2N of Zyxy'z C. Starts barracks, could be changed to whatever.

IBT: Durkztanbul worker->warrior.

1375 BC:Chariot kills a barbie horseman that threatened our workers.
Move troops around a bit. :)

IBT: Durkztanbul warrior->settler.

1350 BC:IW due in 1, Sci down to 80%. Move troops a bit more, closing in on the last barbie camp.

IBT: IW researched, going for Maths, ETA 13. Two sources of iron available. The reason I choose Maths is that catapults can really help our kill ratio. If we can have two or more that can hit any newly landed troops before our swords hit them, we'll keep those swords alive a lot longer. Any other tech should come as soon as we get GLib.

1325 BC:Nikalya founded SE of the mountain range. GH popped, we get maps that we already have. Nikalya starts barracks.
Join yet another worker to Iznik, now size 7. Lux 20%. GLib in 22 turns.

IBT: Nothing.

1300 BC:Archer disperses the final barbie camp, they are off the island!
An interesting move would be to leave some part of the island under FoW to let them reestablish, we can use them as target practice and gold mine. I'll leave that to the upcoming players to decide.

IBT: Xerxes pops up and wants to trade Mysticism for Literature. Pah! He can sell HBR for 112 gp. We could research it ourselves in 4 turns so I'm not sure I'll pass for now, I don't have to declare until the end of the turn. Durkztanbul settler->warrior.

1275 BC:I've decided not to buy anything. We can buy HBR for 112 gp, or research it for 140 beakers. Most probably we'll get it from GLib anyway, and we don't need the horsemen at this point, we have chariots for prebuilds and (soon) swords for defending our island.
I decide instead to buy his WM though for ours and 51 gp. An interesting view indeed, seems the others are all quite hampered in their growth. Could spell disaster for us.

Oh, and war on Xman.

IBT: Durkztanbul warrior->settler.

1250 BC:Move two workers onto the iron. Leave most units for the next player.

Here's a map of the known world:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/worldview1250.jpg

They seem to be pretty stuck all of them, in particular the Arabians and the Persians to the SE. In the western part of the southern island there's the hint of a border for yet another civ, no one knows them yet.

Notes for next player:
The settler currently in Uskudar was destined for the incense hill N of Nikozia, that's one of the two ring-6 locations left. Change that however you like.
The three sentries so named (un-fortified) are placed where they are to lift the FoW in remote locations. Moving one away could lead to more barbies.
Going for Maths may not have been the best choice. Possible alternatives are Mysticism in order to go straight for Monarchy, or nothing at all and use the gold for upgrades. The spendings on Maths are not yet so high as to be a disaster if you choose to abandon that path.
We need a barracks to upgrade warriors, Uskudar has soon finished one.
Elmville can most probably be run as a 2-turn worker factory, which, as WarDance noted, would let Durkztanbul concentrate on more important things. With the lux rate we are running now, consider pop-rushing the granary there when there's 20 shields left to completion. I'll outline the factory in the next post below.
Once iron is connected, Durkztanbul can no longer build warriors. This makes the factory obsolete, I'll see if I can come up with a new scheme for something more powerful.


Finally, the roster:
Niklas - just played
Durkz - UP!
Moth - On Deck (unless you wish to skip even longer)
Elmarae -
WarDance -
zyxy -

Guys we need more offensive units, we have too few.
Barbs have galys, that means that two civs have MM and the uloads will begin soon.
Warriors cant fight with swords (all civs have IW), but archers can and spear can (on the right terrain)
Yes, we need more offensive units, but archers are IMO just not worth it, especially not since defensive freeshots are out. We can have the much better swordsmen by upgrading our 15 warriors, so barracks, iron and gold should be top priorities. :)
Also interesting is that the AIs all have a very limited number of towns, so they can't build galleys en masse. The problem will be if they all start unloading at the same time...

I promised a scheme for the worker pump, here it is:

Wheat, Pl i, 2xGoats, Hill m => +4 food, +8sh = +5sh after waste
Wheat, FP i, Pl i, 2xGoats, (Hill m on growth) => +6 food, +5 sh after waste

As you can see it's quite resource heavy, in particular it will need the goats that Uskudar and WD's E can both use, and a hill must be mined for it. However, we can compensate for that by pumping out workers that we can join to other cities for faster growth where there are no granaries. I'd say go for it, but Durkz it's up to you.

Regarding Durkztanbul, we could have had a 6-turn sword/settler factory if it wasn't for that single shield lost to waste. Besides we may want to let Iznik use the southern sheep herd. I'll look at it some more and edit in my results.

Edit: Yay, it actually works! We can have that combo-factory after all, and let Iznik have the sheep too. Here's the deal:

5.0-5.3: 2xSheep i, 2xBG m, F => +3 food, +10sh a.w. (10)
5.3-5.6: 2xSheep i, 2xBG m, F => +3 food, +10sh a.w. (20)
5.6-6.0: 2xSheep i, BG m, 2xPl i, (F) => +4 food, +10sh a.w. (30, sword)
6.0-6.3: 2xSheep i, BG m, 2xPl i, F => +3 food, +10sh a.w. (10)
6.3-6.6: 2xSheep i, BG m, 2xPl i, F => +3 food, +10sh a.w. (20)
6.6-7.0: 2xSheep i, Horse m, 3xPl i, (F) => +4 food, +10sh a.w. (31, settler)

As you see there's some MMing involved, but since you're only playing 10 turns at a time I hope you find that bearable. :) This factory will be truly powerful! When we get HBR we can do horsemen instead of swords to good effect. Durkz, do you feel up to the task? :banana: (I put that in just for you... ;) )

got it
graph is realy looking nice ;)
matematics is a good choice i forgot to mention it
looking at a map, tight canal between us and the other civs, with catapults and a few galys we can destroy most of their uloads at sea

Yes, we need more offensive units, but archers are IMO just not worth it, especially not since defensive freeshots are out. We can have the much better swordsmen by upgrading our 15 warriors, so barracks, iron and gold should be top priorities. :)
Also interesting is that the AIs all have a very limited number of towns, so they can't build galleys en masse. The problem will be if they all start unloading at the same time...

i thought that the unloads will start on your turnset, but i was wrong, and we didnt had IW and we didnt known that we have iron on our continet
so now swords for sure

Nice turns!

Maybe we should start using money for warrior upgrades as soon as one of the near rivals has MapM? We'll get GLib in 19 turns.
Looks like the economic power of all neighbor civs could be rather low, with so few cities. Also, we may want to start some operations vs India and.or Arabia before they get their UU's, if at all possible.

(please check the added scheme for the new factory to my previous post :))

Graph is looking super-great, we've beat the others in score growth for every turnset since the factory kicked in. Remains to be seen if we can keep it up once it comes down to military actions, but I remain confident.

I definitely think we should upgrade warriors as soon as that barracks in Uskudar is done. 0% research after Maths and wait for GLib to finish?

I think we should consider a swordsman invasion of India, to be able to at least diminish them somewhat before they can trigger their GA. We might also want to unload a single fodder troop in Zululand and make a suicide attack on an Impi just to trigger their GA early.

An interesting thing to note is that Naval Movement is differential, so moving galleys in the inner canals will be really slow, something that can only help us.

:banana:
ok here we go

>>>Da Save<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC1000_01.SAV)

turn0 1250 BC m0ve settler SW of the river sentry, India, Arabia and Zulu have MM (persia has it too probably but we cannot see because they dont want to talk). Rename few units press enter.

IBT: Arabs started GL---------------------------------------------Great Lighthouse :D.

turn1 1225 BC start roading iron (in 3 turns). not much...

turn2 1200 BC Not much. Settler in spot. iron in 2. barracks in Spartanville (uskudar) in 2.

turn3 1175 BC poprushed Granary in elmville, Gl in 16 matematics in 3.

turn4 1150 BC Barracks in Spartanville and cattle town start swords.
Upgraded one warrior move 3 more to upgrade. Granari in elmville factory will
start in 3 turns. Durkztambul is not able to do the sword-settler combo because the Brainville (iznik) is using the BG tiles for GL build.

turn5 1125 BC Upgraded 3 sword move one W. Matematics in 1.

IBT: Arab galy sighted some unit movment on their mainland. Loading units?

turn6 1100 BC researched matematics, stoping the reasearch (we need the money to upgade warriors).

IBT: arabs landed a warrior/settler combo to the peninsula right by our warrior. It starting :D

turn7 1075 BC decided to attack the combo. Warrior kills arab warrior but down to 1 HP (capture 2 slaves). Our first fight :D

turn8 1050 BC Upgraded one warrior. move one swor to the peninsula (i saw another settler loading on the galley).

Ibt: lot's of unit movement in arabia. galley sailing north. (Attack load?)

turn9 1025 BC settler on place near peninsula. sword with him.

IBT: lot of galley movemen, spot 3 galleys, one from india near nikozia, one from arabia near the peninsula and one persian near it
.
turn10 1000 BC Glib in 9. connectin cities for easier defense..., No civ has Liteature, we 95 % sure will get GL (5% possible AI cascade)


QSC stats:

13 cities (our lucky number)
40 population
33 units: 9 native workers, 2 slave workers, 8 swordmen, 9 warrior, 2 archers, 2 spearman and 1 chariot
2 barracks, 2 granaries.
score 432 (firaxis)
gold 33 (39 GPT)
time played to date 1000 BC: 16:58:57


Note to the next player

Durkztambul:
it should produce one or two more settlers and no more is needed. we should build baracks in it asap and use it as a 3 turn Sword or horsy factory.

Elmville (the worker factory)
just if you missed niklas's post
size 5,0 >wheat + plain(irigated) + goat on m + goat on d + incens hill mined = uncorupted 5 shiled and 4 food
size 5,4 >wheat + plain(irigated) + goat on m + goat on d + flood plain irigated + (mined incense hill on growth)= ucorupted 5 shield and 6 food.

Unloads:
Unloads will begin very very soon so take care of the galley movement

* Niklas -
* Durkz - just played
* Moth - UP!
* Elmarae - On deck
* WarDance -
* zyxy -

if moth doesn't posts got it untill tomorow then we'l auto skip

Great turns Durkz, just give it to them!

Warrior kills arab warrior but down to 1 HP (capture 2 slaves). Our first fight :DAnd it went like a breeze! It's an omen, I tell ya! :goodjob:
Durkztambul is not able to do the sword-settler combo because the Brainville (iznik) is using the BG tiles for GL build. It can sinze Brainville can have the sheep tile instead. :)
time played to date 1000 BC: 16:58:57I'm resonsible for a lot of that, I left civ running on saturday, hoping I'd have time to return and finish the last few turns. Must have added 4 or 5 hours at least. :p
Durkztambul:
it should produce one or two more settlers and no more is needed. we should build baracks in it asap and use it as a 3 turn Sword or horsy factory.I don't quite agree that we need no more settlers. "Offensive forts" are really powerful to achieve faster movement in enemy territory, and also if we can get a foothold on their island they might just concentrate on that and send less galleys.
I do agree with the barracks though. Building a rax in 4 turns between two settlers has the added benefit of synchronizing the factory to the correct start size (5.0). I realize though that we need units, units and more units, so perhaps there's just no room to build settlers as well. :(

We will get MM as soon as the GLib is done, so I would suggest letting at least one town be ready with a galley pre-build. A few catapults to redline the galleys, and then a few galleys of our own to finish them off. :cool:

I don't quite agree that we need no more settlers. "Offensive forts" are really powerful to achieve faster movement in enemy territory, and also if we can get a foothold on their island they might just concentrate on that and send less galleys.
I do agree with the barracks though. Building a rax in 4 turns between two settlers has the added benefit of synchronizing the factory to the correct start size (5.0). I realize though that we need units, units and more units, so perhaps there's just no room to build settlers as well. :(


offensive forts are a good thing but we can pop rush those settlers from the food rich unproductive cities an leave our core for unit building
i didnt said to stop producing settlers, just that we dont need them on our home island and the capital can become 2 or 3 turn swordy/horsy factory

and when we get knights and sipahi we wont need offensive forts because they will go trough enemy teritory like trough butter

we should just build arty (catpults canons will come prety late) for defense at our home island, in offense they suck (town on a hill with pike will be probably unharmed after obout 10 bombards so they are useless in offense)

offensive forts are a good thing but we can pop rush those settlers from the food rich unproductive cities an leave our core for unit building
i didnt said to stop producing settlers, just that we dont need them on our home island and the capital can become 2 or 3 turn swordy/horsy factory
You're probably right (though our ability to pop-rush will end when Monarchy comes along). Normally I wouldn't stop producing settlers for anything with a factory like that, but we need those units badly.

we should just build arty (catpults canons will come prety late) for defense at our home island, in offense they suck (town on a hill with pike will be probably unharmed after obout 10 bombards so they are useless in offense)
I couldn't agree more. We will be very restricted in our ability to ferry troops, and to let catapults take up valuable slots on the boats are a complete waste. They can be very good for facing an opponent's counter attack on open ground, and against spears in towns on level land they do their job nicely, but the logistics are too cumbersome in our current situation. On our home island they can use the road network, and galleys have defense 1 with no difficult terrain to hide in. :D

I have a question regarding war waged on deity level. What size force do we need to take down one of the rival civs? I know that on emperor if we had 7 or 8 galleys filled with swords and were able to strike before feudalism we could crush one of the other civs quite easily. But having never fought a war on deity, I'm curious.

I have a question regarding war waged on deity level. What size force do we need to take down one of the rival civs? I know that on emperor if we had 7 or 8 galleys filled with swords and were able to strike before feudalism we could crush one of the other civs quite easily. But having never fought a war on deity, I'm curious.

same will work here (we will probably be able to take down india with 15 swords
ai will keep maximum 3 units in their cities but the problem is that they have a lot of units outside cities (specialy if they are alone on the island) but now they will burn out their suply of units unloading them on our teritory, so it will be same as emperor (ok maybe little tougher ;) )
i said it before deity is easy to beat once you beat emperor

Hey everyone,
I'm back, but still not caught up on RL stuff and jetlag. Please skip me one more time. I'll try and look at stuff tommorow and post some comments.

Alright, welcome back! :)

I guess that means


Niklas -
Durkz -
Moth - just skipped
Elmarae - UP!
WarDance - On deck
zyxy -

Got it....

I've caught up on the thread. It looks like you guys have done a great job so far.

A few thoughts:

1. Near term strategy: Our Initial Invasion forces: The AI will likely still have large numbers of units that they can throw at our forces. We should land a few spears and horses on a defensible location first to absorb the attacks.
2. Long Range: Great Library - Once we near education we should consider gifting this to one of our next enemies. We could send a galley down to meet that next civ arround the time we want to gift it away. We can then recapture it at our leisure to get a post education elavator.

1. Near term strategy: Our Initial Invasion forces: The AI will likely still have large numbers of units that they can throw at our forces. We should land a few spears and horses on a defensible location first to absorb the attacks.
I've tried to make a more thorough assessment of our opponents. It's very interesting to see what resources the AI civs have available - and more importantly, not available.

India
Gandhi has a nice island that will be a nice addition to our empire. :D
India has iron, but no horses. Iron yet to be connected in 1000 BC. The units that we see running around on the near shore are warriors. That will probably change soon enough, but I think it's a fair assumption that they will not have too many swordsmen in the field when we are ready to invade. We will face mostly spearmen and archers, none of which will be that good at taking out our swords.
There are no perfect locations to create a beachhead. We should probably go for proximity and land the troops on the forest next to their closest town. We load the troops on the northern tip of our land, then on the next turn let the galleys move one step NW, unload, and back one step SE for a new load. That gives us two unloaded units, on a forest, per galley per turn.
Leaving the Indians around is not a good idea, they have iron for MInfs and Pikes, and they don't need horses for their War Elephants.

Zulu
Shaka is currently our strongest opponent, at least among our neighbours. Still, his position is not perfect since he has no iron! He's the only one with horses, and he has two of them so potentially he could trade them to someone else.
If we choose to invade at this point, we'll be facing tons of Impi, and probably horsemen, definitely no swordsmen. Losing a fight to an Impi will trigger their GA. Either we should do this early (like asap) and let them use up their GA on improvements, or we wait until we can wage a fairly fast war so they won't have time to use their production increase to build up their military too much.
Leaving the Zulus for a while might actually be the best thing to do. Once we get Feudalism we'll have MInfs against Impi, horsemen and archers since the Zulu don't have iron. Hopefully the GLib will net us Chivalry (unlikely though), then we can roll over them with Knights. However, they have a fair share of mountains in their territory so it's not unlikely they'll have salpeter. Taking them out before Gunpowder might be a good idea.

Arabia
By far the weakest of our neighbours, only 4 towns of which two are in the jungle, and no access to any resources. Should be an easy kill. They could trade for horses from the Zulu, but not iron too, so no Ansar.
I think these guys will be desperate to expand and they are hard pressed by the Persians to the south. Expect invasion attempts with archers and spears. We should clear the jungles around our towns to make the unloaded troops easier targets.
We can easily leave these guys around for a while, with no iron they won't be a problem. They could have salpeter in one of their desert tiles, but even with it they won't stand a chance. Possibly the worst scenario is that the Persians realize what a weak neighbour they have...

Persia
These guys will be dangerous, they have iron connected (beneath their SE town) and will probably build lots of Immortals. Any sighted Persian galleys should be dealt with swiftly. Luckily for us they have some unsettled lands on the island to the south that they will probably concentrate on first. They don't have that many towns so they are not that strong yet, but should they turn on Arabia and get those lands as well they'll be deadly.
Might have salpeter, they have a few mountains and some deserts around.

Conclusions
My general assessment is what we have said already, that India should go down first, and soon. It's better to go after the Zulu with MInfs (and Knights), and going after weak Arabia will only invite the Persians to expand north. We don't have to take out the Indians completely, just decimate them enough that they won't be a threat when Chivalry comes. They are by far the worst opponents to leave around.
After India I'd vote for a massive drive against the two southern Arab towns and then directly for Persia. This will clearly be our hardest war, and it won't get easier the more we wait (though not necessarily harder either). We can leave the Zulus for a while longer, but not too long.

I'd love to hear some feedback on this, I'm sure I missed at least some vital point... :crazyeye:


2. Long Range: Great Library - Once we near education we should consider gifting this to one of our next enemies. We could send a galley down to meet that next civ arround the time we want to gift it away. We can then recapture it at our leisure to get a post education elavator.
This sounds like an interesting tactics. I'm loath to let go of Brainville though, but if we get it down to size one and place units on all surrounding tiles... :mischief:
The problem will be setting it up. We'll have to time perfectly the meeting with a new civ who can be given the town before we declare. Once Theology arrives, we will also have to weigh the possible benefit of getting additional techs from the lower branch vs the risk of obsoleting the GLib.
Also I'm not sure it's really worth it. That depends on how long we think this game will be going. We should beeline for MT, but once we have those Sipahi it will be quite a while until we need to think about more tech, perhaps (hopefully) never. It's a good escape hatch though, should the game proceed longer than anticipated we always have that elevator to ride...

I'm sorry guys, I have to ask for a skip until further notice. It looks like my PTW is bugged. I can load the save then it freezes on IBT, I tried turning off all animations and it still freezes. Or if I restart sometimes it stops at 38% and doesn't proceed any further. I've tried other PTW saves and they have the same problem. Reinstalling Civ 3/PTW then C3C didn't resolve the problem. I've got a tech coming to reinstall windows to see if that solves it sometime this week. When I get the money together.

Ticks me off to no end to be missing out on a warmongers delight like this. :mad:

:( Aww, that just sucks. Hope you'll have it fixed shortly.
But in the meantime there's no reason for you to miss out on all the fun, you can still join the discussions on strategy and tactics. :)


Niklas -
Durkz -
MOTH - UP!
Elmarae - skip until further notice
WarDance - On deck
zyxy -

Ok, I'll go back on my earlier skip request and post a got it. I should be able to play tommorow (24 hours from the time of this post) and post by the afternoon.

I don't see any holes in Niklas' assessment.

It looks like my turns will continue to be builder turns as the GL will not provide any techs until the end of my turn set.

Goals:
1. Settle 1 or 2 towns on the SW coast.
2. Have some Galley pre-builds ready for turn 10.
3. Continue building Swords for attack on India.

A thought on defending against Persia: walls in our homeland cities will give swordsmen defense equivalent of pikes. I know a lot of people don't like to build them but I've seen they can be quite powerful in always war situations. They are quick to build, and I believe there is no upkeep cost... I'm worried about those Immortals.

MOTH, great! :)

I agree with WarDance, walls could really help, and with no upkeep cost they are a one time investment. A fortified spearman in a town on level ground then gets an actual defense value of 3.70, which means a veteran spear wins to a regular immortal ~62% of the time. Without the walls, the number is ~46%. In particular the towns along the south coast could do well with some extra protection, all the three newly founded towns could possibly be switched right away.

MOTH, your list of goals look solid. I'll give you two worker-related suggestions though:
4. Build a road network for easier movement along the south coast.
5. Clear jungle in immediate connection to towns, so that enemy troops cannot strike from cover.

ps. time to change that signature? :p

I am going to be away from internet from May 27 until June 3, inclusive.

--------------------

Against immortals the best thing probably would be to attack them before they can attack us, or to sink their boats. If that's impossible, then walls and cats on defense may help. Anyway, the AI is quite unlikely to unload a lot at the time.

Pre-flight: Check over everything - some minor MM gets a few GPT and a few more food.
Change Nikosia to a Library to bring in a few more tiles without settling on them.
4 southern/eastern towns changed to walls.

ibt - enemy galleys move (I won't mention this as it is every turn)
Durkztanbul: Settler>Barracks; Elmville: worker>worker

975bc(1) - more MM. Change a couple of productive towns to barracks.

ibt - Persia lands a Horse in the SE jungle.
Zyxy's cows builds a Sword>Sword

950bc(2) - More MM, including starving Brainville which should cut a turn off the GL as a mined hill is finished next ibt.
Move a Spear/Sword and Spear/Archer combo next to the horse.

ibt - Horse attacks our Spear on hill and dies promoting us to Vet at 3/4. Persia lands a reg Spear and Vet Archer in the same jungle.
Wardance: Catapult>Catapult
Elmville: Worker

925bc(3) - More MM. I realize that wasn't a mine that was finishing, it was a road, but giving one of Durkzantbuls goats to Brain cuts the Library to 5 turns.
Our Reg Sword attacks Spear and wins promoting to Veteran at 3/4. We leave the Archer for now as we'd have to attack across a river with an Archer.

ibt - Persian Archer defeats our 3/4 Spear but is redlined.

900bc(4) - More MM. Our 3/4 sword defeats Persian archer but no promo.
Build MOTH's Roost on the Western coast. Move a Sword to act as defense. Start a Library to expand borders to Whales.

ibt - Elmton: Barracks - Sword (Galley pre-build)
Spartanville: Sword>Sword
American city of Washington completes Great Lighthouse. We should be safe on Cascades as there is 100shields difference and none of our guys know Literature yet.

875BC(5) - messed up MM on Elmville. No Worker this turn. More MM.

ibt - Arabia lands a reg warrior and vet horse next to WarDance Estates which has only a warrior in defence. I scroll ahead during pre-turn to look at a pop-rush and pop-rush 15 shields of a catapult. MOTH's Roost is also threatened but has a Reg Sword.
Durkztanbul: Barracks>Settler; Elmville: Worker; Wardance Estates: Catapult; Nikozia: Library> Galley Prebuild;

Wonder Cascades: Zulu build the Great Wall in Bapedi.

850bc(6) More MM. Ping the Horse with catapult. Kill the warrior with Sword from MOTH's Roost going 2/3. Move 2 Swords to Wardance. Move Warrior From WarDance to MOTH's. Move a Warrior from Durkz sahara to cover a roading worker.

ibt - Horse kills warrior going 2/4 and disbands our worker.
Indians land a major force between Nicosia and Zyxy (Reg Spear, 2 Reg Warriors, Vet Archer). We have limited defense and couldn't pop rush anything as we had no shields in the box. Archer/Cat in Nicosia; Swords can reach Zyxy, 1 Sword, the Archer, and a wounded Sword can attack the stack.
Spicy Barracks>Sword;

825bc(7) More MM. Great Library in 1.
Cat Bombards Spear and knocks it to 2/3.
Cat bombards Horse and knocks it to 1/4.
Vet Sword vs Spear wins and at 2/4.
Reg Sword Zyxy vs Horse kills it and goes 1/3.
Wounded 2/3 Sword across river vs vet Archer wins and goes 1/3.
I leave a worker our as bait, but don't risk the only defender that Nikozia has.

IBT - The Indians don't take the bait but do attack a warrior in a forest that was intended as reinforcements, kill it and go 1/3. The 2nd warrior attacks Nikozia, is pinged by the catapult and wins going 2/3 and captures the catapult. They steal 8 Gold. We can attack it in 1 turn anyways due to borders from zyxy.
Great Library Completes in Brainville and starts on a settler to ease luxury.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/SG7-Durkz-library.JPG
Nikalya completes wall and starts catapult

800(8) - More MM. Vet Sword to recapture Nikosia takes a ping from the Cat and wins at 3/4. We steal 3 gold and recapture our cat.
Reg Sword kills 1/3 warrior flawlessly.

IBT - Arabia lands 2 reg warrios in the SE jungle.
We learn Myst, Philo, Code of Laws, Map Making, HBR, and Construction from the Great Library.
Durkztanbul: Settler>Sword; Spartanville: Swords;

775(9) - One of our Cats gets to ping a Indian Galley. Shift some troops and more MM.

ibt - Arabia lands a horse in the SE jungle. The warriors move SW.

750bc(10) - More MM.
Cat pings a warrior.
Vet Sword attacks Horse, wins, is promoted to Elite and is now 2/5.
Vet Sword attacks Warrior across river and loses flawlessly.
Reg Archer attacks warrior across river and loses and promotes warrior to 2/4.

I've left a worker with movement.

The 3 towns building walls could all be switched to something else and possibly pop-rushed in a few turns.
I shouldhaave upgraded the Chariot but moved it instead.

Maybe we want to start a min-scince run on Monarchy once we get Poly.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC0750_01.SAV

Firaxis score: 515
Jason score: 587

Rotation:

Niklas - On deck
Durkz -
MOTH - Just Played
Elmarae - skip until further notice
WarDance - UP!
zyxy -skip until June 4th

Nice turns MOTH! Looks like the wars are heating up.

Zulu have built GWall. I guess that rules them out as a target until cavalry or so. I would say India first, then Arabia, followed by Persia.

Arabia seems to be buying horses from Persia. There is a light purple civ SW of Persia, unknown to anyone. It looks like Zulu have also settled south of Persia. Hopefully it will lead to conflict...

I think we could use a few more cats, especially once our enemies start landing immortals and swords. Brainville can build them, it has no rax. We don't seem to need a lot of settlers anymore, until we can invade another island.

Nice turns indeed! Nice to see we're still gaining momentum on the score graph, unlike a lot of the other teams. ;)

A few random interesting notes:
We're the most advanced nation around (of those we know at least), since the others still don't have Literature. :D
India still hasn't connected their iron!
Good thing it was America who got the GLight, at least on a short term. That means our cats still move faster along roaded coast than the galleys do in the water.
I can't believe no one has met America yet, their borders must be overlapping. Could that be two different islands down there? Doesn't look like it though.


Some thoughts on strategy. Clearly the Zulu have proved themselves worthy of sticking around for a while. If we go after them before they have Metallurgy we should clearly hit Bapedi first. Still far off though.

Regarding research, I actually think we should consider going for Monarchy at full speed once we get Poly. Our window for troop upgrades will soon be over for now, and without Monarchy we can't use gp to rush builds, so without Monarchy we'll have no use for any gold whatsoever. Going for it at min will most probably only mean we'll get if from GLib, since the Zulus favor it. At our current rate of income we could get Monarchy in ~25 turns, and since we build up our treasury now we could even go beyond that and run at negative gpt. Also a minor point, but if we research it ourselves we get the chance to reroll anarchy turns.

Disregarding India that we will go after soon enough, it's clear that our major front will be in the SE. We clearly have problems there since the AIs can unload troops that hide in the jungle, that's 50% defense bonus. That coast is fairly short though, and I think we should consider blocking them from landing with troops along the shore. It actually won't take much, to completely cover all jungle shores that's 14 units. To cover the most crucial tiles I'd say 6 units, most of which should be workers clearing the jungle. That way we could force the AIs to unload troops where we can hit them in the open, and we can get more chances to fire at them with our cats.
Something like this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/shoreblock.jpg

The orange circles are the tiles we could protect, the red Xs the tiles I think we should protect, and the arrows show where the Arabs can land and how we can strike at them.

Comments?

Posting a got it! I may have to be skipped but I'll know in the morning wether I can play or not and will let you all know. Taking care of 2 sick kiddos :( ... hopefully they'll be feeling better but we'll see.

.... Regarding research, I actually think we should consider going for Monarchy at full speed once we get Poly. Our window for troop upgrades will soon be over for now, and without Monarchy we can't use gp to rush builds, so without Monarchy we'll have no use for any gold whatsoever. Going for it at min will most probably only mean we'll get if from GLib, since the Zulus favor it. At our current rate of income we could get Monarchy in ~25 turns, and since we build up our treasury now we could even go beyond that and run at negative gpt. Also a minor point, but if we research it ourselves we get the chance to reroll anarchy turns.

If we don't research at all, we can of course save the gold for horse -> knight upgrades, or for rushing markets/libraries. I always find it hard to decide these issues, because of course we also lose food, gold and shields each turn we spend in Despotism instead of Monarchy.

I guess the crucial question is how long our rivals would need to research Monarchy. Given the fact that they already have the techs they really like, like MapMaking and Construction, I would guess Monarchy is high on their list (government tech, and enables a wonder), and I cannot imagine it would take them more than 25 turns to research it. Or do you think they would go for republic first?


Disregarding India that we will go after soon enough, it's clear that our major front will be in the SE. We clearly have problems there since the AIs can unload troops that hide in the jungle, that's 50% defense bonus. That coast is fairly short though, and I think we should consider blocking them from landing with troops along the shore. It actually won't take much, to completely cover all jungle shores that's 14 units. To cover the most crucial tiles I'd say 6 units, most of which should be workers clearing the jungle. That way we could force the AIs to unload troops where we can hit them in the open, and we can get more chances to fire at them with our cats.


It's a nice idea, but I don't know if it is feasible. Blocking only the 6 spots will leave a lot of jungle available to land. We do not have many roads there, so we cannot use mobility or catapults to the fullest (especially around "I'm paranoid - town"). Playing defense is also not too great: a fortified spear in jungle doesn't stand a great chance against an immortal or even a sword.
I think the main advantage of the human player is the use of mobility and artillery to achieve concentration of force, and we would give up both if we implement this plan. I think it might work well if we can block all jungle tiles (and perhaps coastal hills, etc), and force the AI to land in a kill-zone.
Of course, commiting 14+ units to such a plan is still quite a lot (1/3 to 1/2 of our total IIRC).

One alternative is to identify where the AI lands. In my experience they have preferred spots where they will always land. In this case, probably on the horse (maybe after we connect it) or near the iron.

One alternative is to identify where the AI lands. In my experience they have preferred spots where they will always land. In this case, probably on the horse (maybe after we connect it) or near the iron.

The jungle immediately south of the Iron hill seems to be a preferred landing zone. The Persians and Arabs have both landed a few troops on this tile.

If we don't research at all, we can of course save the gold for horse -> knight upgrades, or for rushing markets/libraries. I always find it hard to decide these issues, because of course we also lose food, gold and shields each turn we spend in Despotism instead of Monarchy.

I guess the crucial question is how long our rivals would need to research Monarchy. Given the fact that they already have the techs they really like, like MapMaking and Construction, I would guess Monarchy is high on their list (government tech, and enables a wonder), and I cannot imagine it would take them more than 25 turns to research it. Or do you think they would go for republic first?

My experience is that most AIs will indeed go for Republic first. Also consider the fact that they can be researching Republic already, whereas for Monarchy they must first wait for Poly. The only other tech not yet researched is Currency, generally shunned by the AI. There's one exception though, the Zulu often research both Poly and Monarchy, often disregarding Republic completely.

If the AIs get Currency before Poly, I think chances are pretty high that they will skip Monarchy, having nice MA techs to go for instead, fairly equal in cost to the gov techs. If not then probably at least one AI, probably Zulu if they're the ones to come up with Poly, will indeed go for Monarchy, and do it faster than we could.

It's a nice idea, but I don't know if it is feasible. Blocking only the 6 spots will leave a lot of jungle available to land. We do not have many roads there, so we cannot use mobility or catapults to the fullest (especially around "I'm paranoid - town"). Playing defense is also not too great: a fortified spear in jungle doesn't stand a great chance against an immortal or even a sword.
I think the main advantage of the human player is the use of mobility and artillery to achieve concentration of force, and we would give up both if we implement this plan. I think it might work well if we can block all jungle tiles (and perhaps coastal hills, etc), and force the AI to land in a kill-zone.
Of course, commiting 14+ units to such a plan is still quite a lot (1/3 to 1/2 of our total IIRC).

One alternative is to identify where the AI lands. In my experience they have preferred spots where they will always land. In this case, probably on the horse (maybe after we connect it) or near the iron.

First of all, let me correct my own mistakes. :rolleyes:
Jungle gives 25% defense bonus, not 50% that I confusedly claimed. This makes the jungle drop-offs less a problem than I considered them to be.
Still, I think my idea has merit. We clearly can't commit 14 military units to block tiles, but the whole point is to use workers for the task. They should be there anyway to clear the jungle and extend the road network, and we build a new one every two turns, so why not go the whole way and spred them out to cover the whole shore? The down side would be that it will take longer to clear each jungle if we spread them out, but on the other hand we'd have the whole jungle cleared in ~24turns (not counting the steps needed to get in place).

We should definitely keep our military units mobile, but the need for mobility decreases if we can predict where the enemy will land. Forcing them to land on flat ground is also a bonus. Actually, covering the full 14 tiles seem to me a better idea than just the 7 (not 6 like I said, not good at counting that high :crazyeye: ) tiles I first indicated. Then we could concentrate our counter-attacks to the grasslands SE of Nikalya, and the deserts W of D's jungle town. Only covering the 7 would probably mean a lot of units on the peninsula where we don't want them to get a beachhead.

I'm still not sure it's feasible, I'm at work and can't check the save to see exactly what units we have available and where. Enough workers is the key to success, we can't tie up our military. Quickly covering the peninsula would be crucial for the plan to work I think. Also it's important that it won't delay the Indian campaign in any way, that must take precedence.

On a different note, I think we should switch at least one of the sword builds in Durkztanbul and Spartanville to a galley, just the one from Elmton will not be enough. Possibly we could also poprush a galley in D's jungle town, to use in team with cats along the southern coast.

Bugger. Have to pass. Sorry all. Looks like I have a full weekend ahead, too.

Then it's
* Niklas - UP!
* Durkz - On deck!
* MOTH - Just Played
* Elmarae - skip until further notice
* WarDance -
* zyxy -skip until June 4th


sorry for low input from me in a last couple of days. My school year is coming to an end so im pumping the grades up (yes im just 18 :p ).

Alright, I'll post a preliminary "got it". I won't be able to play and post until Sunday afternoon though, so WarDance, if you find the time to play before I post that I'm starting my turns, then go ahead and play. Just be sure to say that you do, so we don't play in parallell. :)

Ok, "got it" for sure now. Will play during the afternoon.

Summary:
Invasion of India is underway, but may prove hard indeed. I'm glad it's Durkz the Almighty and not me that has to tackle those Indians.
Arabia is blocked from landing troops directly from the opposite town. They could get 4 units per turn with a single galley before by loading in the town. :eek:
Our catapults are truly fearsome against enemy galleys. No unloads for a while, could be the calm before the storm.
Zulu have Poly, will probably go for Monarchy next as they are known to do.


Save is >>here<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC0550_01.SAV)!

Preflight: Check all towns. Identify Zyxy's and Spicy F as likely candidates
for a pop-rush. Possibly Spartanville as well.

750 BC (0):
Move a worker to SF for deployment in the jungle.

IBT: Arabian warriors move N. Arabian galley unloads two more warriors on the
tile the others just left.
A Persian galley approaches from the south.
The Indian galley unloads a warrior and a spear, and another approaches from
the north.
Brainville settler->cat.

730 BC (1):
Lux up to 30%, it will cost us 8gp but will release a few MP for active duty.

SE front:
vSword in SF attacks arab 2/3 warrior across river, wins but down to 3hp.
cat S of SF ticks arab 2/4 warrior, now 1/4.
rSword attacks arab 3/3 warrior, wins flawlessly.
eSword at 2/5 attacks arab 1/4 warrior, wins at 1hp. rWarrior follows to guard.

One warrior remaining, at 3/3.

rSword from D's Jungle to Paranoid to reinforce.
vSword from Spartanville towards SF.

W front:
vSword attacks indian 3/3 spear from inside WD's, wins at 1hp, promoted to 2/5.
rSword from MOTH's attacks indian 3/3 warrior, wins at 1hp, promoted to 2/4.
cat ticks Arab galley, now 2/3.

No enemies remaining on this shore.

Rush sword in zyxy's, another in Spartanville. They were both at the limit of
their growth capacity.

Misclick makes the settler lose two turns...

IBT: Arabia unloads 3 rWarriors on this spices. Another Persian galley from the
south, their first goes west along the coast.
Damn, I can't believe I missed the MMing of Elmville. We got a worker, but no
growth, so next will come in 3 turns.
Durkztanbul, Spartanville and Zyxy's, all sword->sword.

710 BC (2):
Alexmanik founded west of D's Sahara. Starts on cat.

Rush a sword in SF.
Upgrade chariot to horse.
Cat ticks Arab galley again, now 1/3. Would be good if we could kill it with a
galley of our own, before it can crawl back home, but I doubt it.
Withdraw and regroup, let the three warriors make their move first.
Spread out a few swords to block the coast between D's sahara and D's jungle
from Persian unloads. I want them square in the desert, with no rivers blocking
attacks.

IBT: Now three Persian galleys and three Indian galleys in sight. Zyxy's riots
I thought I had seen to that..?! Arabia unloads another warrior and a spear.
D's jungle walls->cat.
SF sword->sword.

690 BC (3):
Move around troops to intercept.
Cat ticks Indian galley, now 3/4.
rSword vs rWarrior, wins at 1/3.

IBT: Ragnar shows his ugly face. He has four towns, and is behind in tech. I
trade him CoL for his WM.
Arabia unloads a horse and an archer. I shouldn't have given them that break.
D's jungle riots on growth, what happened to my grace period??
Persian galley that was ticked turns back, woohoo. It was probably empty...

Elmton galley->galley.
Brainville cat->cat.

670 BC (4):
rHorse vs rWarrior, wins at 2/3.
vSword vs vHorse, wins at 3/4.
vSword vs vArcher, wins at 3/4, reclaims the spices/arab landing spot.


Emmanik founded in the west, starts cat.

IBT:
Arab 3/3 warrior attacks Nikalya with 3/3 warrior, loses flawlessly, promotes
warrior to 4/4.
Arabia unloads three more warriors and a spear. Sigh. Now 4 warriors and
2 spears in total.
India unload a warrior N of Nikozia.

Durkztanbul settler->sword.

650 BC (5):

SE front:
cat misses 3/3 arab spear.
cat hits 3/3 arab spear, now 2/3.
eSword attacks 2/3 spear, wins but loses 1hp, now at 4/5.
vSword attacks 3/3 spear, wins flawlessly.
rSword attacks 3/3 warrior, wins at 2/3.
rSword attacks 4/4 warrior from inside Paranoid, wins flawlessly.
rSword attacks 4/4 warrior across river, wins at 2/3.

One 3/3 warrior left.

W front:
vSword attacks indian 3/3 warrior, wins flawlessly.
cat ticks indian galley, now 3/4.

IBT:
Yikes, India unloads a spear and a warrior next to Elmton!
Otherwise only moves.

630 BC (6):
rSword kills 3/3 arab warrior flawlessly.
rHorse kills 4/4 indian spear, at 1/3! :)
rWarrior moves to cover the horse in Elmton from the 4/4 warrior.

Unload a eSword on indian soil. Or rather, it's within our border, but on
their side. :D

Block is now complete except for one tile. No more arabs in the jungle!
Rush a spear in Paranoid.

IBT: Arabia wants peace, he's willing to give all (83) gp, WM and contact with
America. Pah.
Indian 4/4 warrior attacks Elmton with 3/3 warrior, loses but defender at 1/3.
No more unloads.
Spartanville sword->sword.
Brainville cat->cat.
Elmville worker->worker.
D's jungle spear->cat.
D's sahara walls->cat.
WD's estate cat->cat.

610 BC (7):
5 cats do in total 3hp dmg to three different galleys, two Persian and one
Indian.
Move troops around to better cover against future unloads.

IBT: First Zulu galley sighted, it has gone around India. Damaged Persian
galleys turn around and head for home.

590 BC (8):
Cats tick a Zulu galley, a Persian galley (2/4 now) and an Arabian galley.
Unload 4 veteran swords in India.

IBT: Indians move a lot of troops into Lahore. A sword sighted.

570 BC (9):
Zulu now has Poly, as predicted. We will probably get it soon enough, and since
no one has Currency I think the Zulus will keep going for Monarchy as well.

Send a sword "scouting", kills the indian sword but down to 2hp.
Unload more swords.

Cats tick galleys left and right. Too bad we can't follow up with attack
galleys of our own. Yet.

Anikara founded on the peninsula.

IBT:
Indian 4/4 spear(!!) attacks our sword at 2/5 and wins flawlessly!
Indian 3/3 archer attacks 4/4 sword in stack, loses, promotes, sword at 2/5.
There's a stack of Indian spears (4), archers (4) and warriors (1) blocking
our way to Lahore.

550 BC (10):
Cats keep doing what they're meant to do.
I'll leave the invasion for the next player. :)

Minimap of the world at 550 BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/minimap550.jpg


Rooster:
* Niklas - Just Played
* Durkz - Up!
* MOTH - On deck!
* Elmarae - skip until further notice
* WarDance -
* zyxy - skip until June 4th

got it

hey nice turns nk :goodjob:

cats realy rock
the map realy looks strange :crazyeye:

will play it tonight

DAMN!
I just realize I didn't declare on Ragnar. It just fell out of my mind. :(
I hope the SGOTM gods are kind and forgive me my mind-lapse...

You should send a quick PM to AlanH and Mad-Bax. They might want you to replay from turn 3, or they will probably just have Durkz declare first thing in his turns.

Done that, awaiting the verdict. :(

This is the reply:
Hiya

I already flagged this up to Durkz, as the submission system detected it. He confirmed the detection result and he's going to declare war on this turn and then play forward. No problem - you aren't the first :)

So I guess all's well then. :blush:
I guess that's what happens when concentrating too much on killing... :mischief:

just to confirm that all is well and that we can continue our game

warmonger time!!! :ack:

Go geddem Durkz! :goodjob:

>>>Save<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC0350_01.SAV)

Turn0--550BC-- attacked that 1/3 zulu galley near our capital, our galley down to 1/3 but wins [1-0]. Move four invasion swords S, that stack of indian units is too tough for 4 swords but for 7 it isn't.

Turn1--530BC-- eSword killes vSpear but down to 1/5, vSword killes rSpear down to 2/4, vSword killes vArcher 3/4, vSword killes vArcher 4/4, vSword killes vArcher 2/4. That stack on the indian mainland is gone and we didnt lose any units. [6-0]

Turn2--510BC-- Not much, no unloads units healing

Turn3--490BC-- man... eSword loses to a rSpear (down to 1/3), vSword kills vArcher , eSword finishes 1 hp spear but down to 3/5. [8-1]

IBT: Some units load in indian galley

Turn4--470BC-- Destroyed that Indian galley with our galley supported by catapults. Battle for Lahore begins: vSword dies against vSpear (down to 2/4), vSword dies against rSpear (down to 1/3), vSword killes rSpear but down to 1/4, vSword killes 2HP spear no HP lost, vSword killes rWarrior down to 3/4, vSword killes 1Hp vSpear and we take lahore. Rename it to Morrowind. Thera are no Unloads because cats work wery well. [13-4]

Turn5--450BC-- Destroyed Arab Galley but our down to 1/3. Not much units healing. Poprush a galley in emmanik. rushed a cat in My jungle town. [14-4]

Turn6--430BC-- Destroyed another arab galley. Send 7 swords towards bombay. Destroyed persian galley to the SW. [16-4]

Turn7--410BC-- Workers work clearing jungle, the number of galleys is realy decreasing we are destroying them faster then they can produce them.
Turn8--390BC-- Our vSword dies attackning the vSword 3/4, eSword finishes that wounded sword. Swords are at Bombay. [17-5]

IBT: Spear pillages road/mine BG tile near morrowind

Turn9--370BC-- eSword kills vSpear down to 3/5, vSword dies against rSpear (but spear is down to 1 HP), vSword finishes that last spear no HP lost but promotes to e. Bombay falls easyly only 2 defenders in it (they probably lost a lot in the galleys). Rename it to Chicken-town (they fought bad). Killed that pillager spear.[20-6]

Turn10--350BC-- Poprushed harbor in nikozia (Chicken-town has harbor and have Iwory in it's radius so i did it to get luxury. vSword killes rSpear no HP lost, But another vSword dies to rWarrior (bah...) [22-7]

Score 663 (firaxis)
Gold 1080 (41 GPT)



Notes for the next player

*Dont keep a lot of units in Conquerd indian towns because they have a high flip %

*Use cats to stop AI from unloading units, i had no unloads during my turns :P

*Zulu have Polyteism AND Currency but they dont want to trade it to any other nations, but soon as they do trade them we'll get them.

*Maintain the "Canal of Doom" to the SE of our continent

*Zulu try to unload units at our capital but we can easyly destroy them with catapults and galleys right there.

yes i have to post roster seperate :mischief:

* Niklas -
* Durkz - Just Played
* MOTH - Up!
* Elmarae - skip until further notice
* WarDance -On deck!
* zyxy - skip until June 4th

just looking at the graph some teams realy have a rough time playing this SGOTM

What do you think about Raze and Replace fro a while? We could use the slaves...

Pre-flight: Check over everything - some minor MM gets 5 GPT and a few more food. Rush the Library in MOTH as its not growing.

ibt - enemy galleys move (I won't mention this as it is every turn)

America shows up with Poly and Currency in Map Stat.

330bc(1) - More MM as we now have 2 Luxes. Bombard galleys. redline a Zulu galley and sink it. (1-0)

Trade America WMs and declare war.

ibt - India attacks a Vet Sword twice which goes Elite at 3/5.
Great Libray gives us Poly, Currency, and Republic. Age change gets us Engineering.

310bc(2) - bombard galleys. Sink a redlined Persian galley.

ibt - not much.

290bc(3) - bombard galleys.

ibt - resistence in morrowwind ends with the building of a slave. 2 laborers are now tame in Chicken-town (time to starve).

270bc(4) - Horse attacks a Sword and retreats doing no damage.

ibt - we lose a sword.

250bc(5) - bombard galleys. Vet Sword vs 3/3 Sword loses and 2/4. Vet Sword vs 2/4 wins at 3/4.
Big Battle at Delhi: 3x Vet Sword vs 4/4 Spear lose and do some damage.
Elite vs 3/4 Spear: Wins at 2/5.
Elite vs 2/4 Spear: Wins at 4/5 and gets a Leader!
Elite vs 2/4 Spear: Wins and captures Delhi!
Leader builds an Army in Delhi. Will populate with Swords next turn.

ibt - American and Viking galleys now too.

230bc(6) - bombard galleys. Move units.

ibt - Resistence in Delhi ends.

210bc(7) - bombard. Move. Found Roost in India's land.

ibt - Indian Archer shows up. Durkz jungle town riots.

190bc(8) - bomb. Move. 4/4 Horse vs 4/4 archer wins and goes Elite at 3/5.

ibt - Persia drops off a warrior.

170bc(9) - bomb move. Sink a aZulu and Persian Galley. Sword kills the Warrior. Pillage Indian Iron.

ibt - America lands Sword and Spear near Delhi just after I moved the Army away.
Indian Sword kills a Sword near Chicken. Indian Sword shows up.
Zulu start hanging gardens.

150bc(10) - Sword near Chicken kills 1/4 sword.
Horse kills American Spear.
Sword in Delhi kills American Sword.
Horse kills Indian Archer.

I've left the Army and an Elite Sword with movement. They were heading to Calcutta, but maybe it would be better sending them back east.

We also have a settler ready in the Indian lands. Perhaps he should settle in between Delhi-Madras-Calcutta to expand the borders a bit.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_BC0150_01.SAV

Firaxis score: 743
Jason score: 846

Rotation:

Niklas -
Durkz -
MOTH - Just Played
Elmarae - skip until further notice
WarDance - UP!
zyxy - On deck

nice turns MOTH

i dont think we should go with raze and replace with india because they will be gone for good wery soon , but when we attack zulu we should do that

Sweet turns! :goodjob:
No play for quite a while, then 30 turns within 12 hours. :crazyeye:

The Indians are clearly doomed, and without their iron they won't even be much of a nuisance the last turns of their life. :evil:

Some random thoughts:
No unloads in our heartland for quite some time, cats and war galleys really rock. I think we'll be looking at quite a few unload attempts from the Zulu in former India, so perhaps we should get a few cats over there are well.
We should start planning for our next conquest. The mopping up in India should be fairly uneventful, and we will probably only need a token defense force to stop the Zulu from doing bad things (see note on cats above). Arabia should IMO be our next target, but we must make sure that we can handle both Arabian counter-attacks (not a problem) as well as Persian attacks (clearly worse).
The Zulu have Monarchy. Hope they will release it soon enough.
The Persians seem to have entered the MA, but they got no free tech...?
Engineering is sweet, no more bothering about river crossings. It's also good that we didn't get Mono, we want to keep the AI from the path to Education.
The GWall doesn't put walls in all towns, it just doubles the effect of existing ones. That makes the Zulu a lot less dangerous.


Btw, I think it should be me on deck, since zyxy will be away until June 4th.

we should build more horsmen then swords now ( in 3:7 balance)
because we will get chivlary rather soon and we have lot's of lf gold
horse>knight costs 80 g in PTW so we can upgrade 25 horses to knights for 2000 g and 25 knights can realy anihilate any civ in the early MA

we should build more horsmen then swords now ( in 3:7 balance)
because we will get chivlary rather soon and we have lot's of lf gold
horse>knight costs 80 g in PTW so we can upgrade 25 horses to knights for 2000 g and 25 knights can realy anihilate any civ in the early MA
I agree, knights will rock. We should also upgrade the swords we have to Maces, those upgrades come at 20 gp each so that's 500 gp for 25. I think we have something like 20 already, but only a handful horses, so more horses.

I'm not so sure we will get Chivalry that fast though, the Arabs would probably research it but they will have their hands full of other things by then :mischief:. If we're unlucky we might not get Chiv at all before Edu. Perhaps we should consider a drive for it ourselves?

We should be more than able to conquer Arabia with maces only, and to hold our ground against the Persians. To take them out, and to take the Zulus, we need those faster units.

I agree, knights will rock. We should also upgrade the swords we have to Maces, those upgrades come at 20 gp each so that's 500 gp for 25. I think we have something like 20 already, but only a handful horses, so more horses.

I'm not so sure we will get Chivalry that fast though, the Arabs would probably research it but they will have their hands full of other things by then :mischief:. If we're unlucky we might not get Chiv at all before Edu. Perhaps we should consider a drive for it ourselves?

We should be more than able to conquer Arabia with maces only, and to hold our ground against the Persians. To take them out, and to take the Zulus, we need those faster units.

probably we should reasearch it after we get feudalism

Leo's? I think that we should go for it

Leo's? I think that we should go for it
My very first post in this thread should tell you what I think of that. :D

But seriously, Leo's will make a large difference. We will have to research large parts of the way towards MT ourselves, so there's small chance for us to hoard money the way we do now. Upgrading a knight to a Sipahi is 60gp, so for 25 knights (hopefully we'll have more) that's 1000 gp. With Leo's we'd cut that in half, making it a lot more feasible, and allowing us to keep a higher research pace towards MT.

What would be truly good is if we could get Leo's before Chiv, horses to knights is the larger cost, but that would require quite a lot of luck. We'd have to get Invention fairly quickly after Feudalism, and then probably a well-timed leader...

Speaking of leaders, we should build HE asap. Our army should score a victory soon enough, so perhaps we could start a prebuild right away.

Hmm, perhaps a mail to WarDance would be a good idea?

ok more than 24 hours have past so we will autoskip

* Niklas -UP!
* Durkz -On deck
* MOTH - Just Played
* Elmarae - skip until further notice
* WarDance - Autoskiped
* zyxy - skip till 4. june

Alright then, "got it", will play tomorrow.

Sorry guys. Didn't realize I was up! :eek:

NP just expect to play after niklas finishes his turns

Summary:
We are a Monarchy! :king:
India is as good as dead, you just have to deal the final blow on the first of your turns.
Retain the Canal of Doom. That's the small stretch of water between us and the Zulu, the Arabs keep trying to send their galleys that way and we can easily pick them off with cats and galleys. However, a galley that is damaged before getting within striking distance of our galleys will turn back to port to fight another day.
Zulu have Feudalism, expect to get it soon and to mass upgrade swords.
Kill Arabia, Persia, Zulus, Vikings and America, in that order. :D


The save is >>here<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_AD0050_01.SAV)!

Preflight: Some MMing. Switch WD's estate to barracks. Lux down to 10%.

150 BC (0):
Move a few units along the Canal of Doom to get workers on all jungle tiles.
Move army west towards Calcutta.

IBT:
America unloads sword and spear.
Zulu unload an archer.
Indian rArcher attacks our 1/4 horse, kills flawlessly.

Elmton galley->galley.

130 BC (1):

East indian front:
Cat ticks american spear, now 2/3.
eSword kills american sword, down to 4/5.
vSword kills zulu archer, down to 3/4.

Remaining: American 2/3 and indian 3/3 archer (not within striking range).

West indian front:
Move army, eSword, rSword and cat into position at Calcutta.

West home front:
3 Cats do 2hp dmg to Indian galley, now 2/4.

Huh? Two of the jungle tiles cannot be cleared.

IBT:
Arabs unload warrior and spear due to a mind-lapse of mine.
We get Monarchy from GLib, revolt immediately. 6 turns anarchy :(

110 BC (2):

East home front:
2 cats fail to damage arab 3/3 spear.
2 more cats do 2 hp damage, spear down to 1/3.
rSword kills arab 3/3 warrior flawlessly.
rSword kills arab 1/3 spear flawlessly.
Hole is filled, no more unload chances.

Remaining cat ticks Arab galley, now 3/4.


East indian front:
vSword kills indian 3/3 archer, down to 1/4.
Cat fails to damage american 2/3 spear.
vSword kills american 2/3 spear, down to 3/4.

West indian front:
Cat fails to damage Calcutta defender.
Army kills 3/3 spear defender, down to 11/13.
eSword dies against 3/3 spear defender, defender down to 1/3.
3/4 vSword kills 1/3 spear defender flawlessly, captures Calcutta.
Harbor in Calcutta preserved!

Nikofort founded to push the borders towards Madras.

IBT: India moves a few troops.

90 BC (3):
West indian front:
Army moves to Nikofort.
Cat ticks Indian galley, now 1/4.

East indian front:
Cat fails to hit indian 3/3 archer.
eHorse kills indian 3/3 archer flawlessly.

SE Home front:
4 cats take arab galley to 1/4.

IBT:
3 Viking galleys show up, they turn towards the CoD. :evil:

70 BC (4):
SE Home front:
Cat ticks arab galley, now 3/4.
4 cats do 2 dmg to viking galley, now 2/4.

Indian front (now only one):
2 cats tick indian spear twice, now 1/3.
eHorse kill indian 1/3 spear, down to 2/5.

IBT:
The damaged viking longship runs for home, the two others turn west along the
coast.
Indians move a few troop.
Two Zulu galleys are trying to sneak around india and take Calcutta. I'll have
a warm welcome for them.

50 BC (5):
S Home front:
5 cats do 4 dmg to two viking galleys, both now 2/4.
cat ticks arab galley, now 3/4.

Indian front:
Two cats tick indian 3/3 archer, now 1/3.
vSword kills indian 1/3 archer flawlessly.
11/13 army dies against an indian 4/4 spear in Madras, spear to 2/4. :eek:

IBT:
Lots of galley moves.
Chickentown is really chicken, they flip to the Indians. Gah.

30 BC (6):
Indian front:
eSword* kills indian 4/4 spear in Madras, now 2/5.
vSword kills indian 3/3 spear in Madras, now 1/4.
vSword kills indian (unfortified) 3/3 spear in Madras, promotes to 4/5.
Madras captured.

3 cats take zulu galley to 1/4.

Home front:
Cat ticks viking galley, now at 1/4.
3 cats take 2hp from Zulu galley, now at 1/3.

IBT:
Zulu galley unload a warrior and an archer next to Madras.

10 BC (7):
Home front:
3 cats do 2 dmg to arab galley, now 2/4.
rGalley dies flawlessly attacking arab 2/4 galley.
rGalley kills arab 2/4 galley flawlessly, promotes to 4/4.

2 cats each tick a viking galley, both at 1/4 now.
Cat misses indian galley near Elmton, move troops to block the coast.

Indian front:
Cat ticks zulu 4/4 archer, now 3/4.
3/4 vSword kills zulu 3/3 warrior, loses 1hp, promotes to 3/5.
4/5 eSword kills zulu 3/4 archer flawlessly.

vSword kills indian spear in Chickentown, loses 1hp, promotes to 3/5.
vSword kills indian spear in Chickentown, loses 3hp, promotes to 2/5.
Chickentown retaken.

IBT:
Galleys move.
We are a Monarchy!

10 AD (8):
Lots of MMing. Lux to 20% since so many troops are guarding the shores.

Indian front:
rGalley attacks indian 1/4 galley, loses flawlessly.
Cat ticks zulu galley, now 3/4.

IBT:
Galleys move.
Nikalya cat->cat.
Durkztanbul settler->horse.
Elmville worker->worker.

30 AD (9):
Indian front:
rGalley sinks zulu 1/4 galley, no dmg.

IBT:
Brainville horse->horse.
Spartanville sword->sword.
Elmville worker->worker.
Indian 3/3 archer attacks 4/4 sword, dies but takes 1hp, sword promotes to 4/5.

50 AD (10):
3 cats do 1hp dmg to arab galley, now 3/4.
vGalley sinks arab 3/4 galley, down to 2/4.

I've left a large stack of swords and horses outside Lahore, so India should
fall the first thing that happens in 70 AD. :)

Rotation:

Niklas - just played
WarDance - UP!
Durkz - On Deck!
MOTH -
Elmarae - skip until further notice
zyxy - skip until June 4

One more thing. Those unclearable jungle tiles, is that because they are in Arab territory? Seems strange to me, you can do all manner of stuff in there but not clear jungle? :confused:
Anyway, perhaps we should settle a town down there? That would give the added benefit of working as a shipping harbor for the invasion of Arabia, and later to move troops between that town and Baghdad in a single turn.

11/13 army dies against an indian 4/4 spear in Madras, spear to 2/4.

wow just wow :eek:

anyway nice turns
we are progresing wery nicely

Ok, got it!

wow just wow :eek:

Yeah, I couldn't believe my eyes. But anyway, it wasn't such a big deal, the army had filled its purpose which was to get a win so we could have the HE (which I didn't start building, note to WarDance). The Indians will soon be dead anyway, and we couldn't ship the army out (not until we have transports anyway). Sure, it could have helped guarding the shores of old India, but I don't think we'll have all that many problems there.

Even so, it sucked, watching those hp drain away. :sad:

yea the army isnt so important in PTW as is in C3C
i just envy the C3C players for having the MONSTER sipahi army 18.8.4. 16 HP
HE will come in hand nicely for our wonders

Those monster armies will be handy for them, sure, but they will face the same problem: they can't ship them from island to island! So on this map, I would actually hold wonder rushing higher.

Btw, dare to bet that we'll have the highest QSC score? :)
The only ones who beat us in firaxis score is a C3C team with a higher multiplier...

Talk about betting...
GO! IFK Göteborg :)
i bet as a hoby

Hm X- team looks strong and they started the coquest at the same time when we started (looked at the graph to get this info)

They can load 3 units in to the army then transport them by galeon and when they unload they can get one more sipahi in to the army

Bede and Darkness are realy having a hard time with this SGOTM

Wow, the map sure is different since the last time I saw it!

Unfortunately I could only fit in 5 turns... but maybe it's for the best as I'm not doing too well. Probably better if one of you pros takes over and plays the other 5 or maybe 15 to compensate. I made a really idiotic move early in my turns. Don't know what the heck I was thinking.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_AD0150_01.SAV)

0) move a couple units around and everything looks good... but then again I'm no expert.

IBT: some galleys moving about. Zulu's building Sun Tzu's.

1) 70 AD: 2 cats bomb Arab galley, 1 hits. rgalley sinks redlined Indian galley. vhorse kills rspear in Bangalore, now elite end 3/5. ehorse kills spear in Bangalore, now 2/5. esword 4/5 dies attavking rspear. vsword kills rarcher, now 3/4. vsword kills redlined spear- take Bangalore. The Indians are gone.

Wardance Estates is size 7 and unhappy. Will peel a settler off of it, wasting 1 shield.

IBT: Palace expands. American galley approaches Indian lands from north. Zulu galley leaves Hlobane.

2) 90 AD: my idiot move. I move 3 horses from Indian lands to our mainland. What the hell was I thinking?! I suppose my thoughts were that the Indains were done so I could move them south to prepare for the Arab invasion, not thinking that they would be very much needed in defense from the Zulu landings. I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry! Man that was dumb.

Settler from WD Estates heads SE to jungle on Arab coast. Worker moves and a couple unit moves.

IBT: Feudalism!

3) 110 AD: Clear forest by Brainville to rush one more horse... then we can start HE there, or maybe Durkz. Don't know what would be better. Jungle SW of spicy fortress is cleared. Denizli founded between Delhi and Bangalore. Nikozi builds galley and starts library. Upgrade a few swords to MI.

IBT: Zulus build Hanging Gardens. Arabs want peace. Americans drop archer and spear next to Calcutta! Dammit. Here's where moving those horses was a bad move. They drop a spear and sword next to Moth's Roost as well.

4) 130 AD: Elite sword attacks from Calcutta and dies, redlining american spear. Bah! Elite sword kills vet archer, 3/5. I have NO units that can finish off that spear! Napoleon Dynamite quote: "Idiot!"

vMI kills vspear, 1/4. vhorse attacks vsword- retreats at 1/4 doing 1 hit. cat knocks off 1 more hit. vhorse redlines the sword but dies. vsword makes kill, 2/4.

Upgrade a few more swords.

IBT: American spear takes Calcutta! Bugger. 3 towns riot because I removed their MP's to take down the American interlopers. Zulus drop off a warrior and an Impi in former India.

5) 150 AD:3 cats fire at Impi. 1 hits. esword goes after impi- impi retreats redlined. esword at 2/5. vsword kills ewarrior, 2/4. vsword kills redlined impi. 1 cat hit on persian galley, 1 off of arab galley. vgalley sinks persian galley, 1/4 remaining. 3 cats redline another Persian galley. vgalley sinks him, taking no damage.

Afterthoughts: Sorry I couldn't fit in my full 10 turns but I'm feeling a bit down about my mistakes so it's better this way.

Durkztanbul is size 7 and happiness there will soon be an issue. I set them to biuld a settler... is that a good idea? Spartanville has some forest tiles that it doesn't use. I set some workers to chop one to give the shields to a horse, or it could pump out a galley. There are a ton of workers fortified down in the SE. What the heck are we gonna do with them all? I know it was my idea to turn Elmville into a big worker pump but now I think we may have too many. We are paying 41gpt for unit upkeep so it may be worthwhile to disband a few. That money would be better spent on military units I think.

RE: Knights. I agree they would be extremely useful, but I think with the amount of unit support we are paying the research would be very slow. An alternative is to cut our iron and pump out some warriors as fast as we can. With the amount of gold we have now we can upgrade over 20 warriors to MI. It might be worth it to do this and take down Persia and Arabia with them, or even go after the Zulu. By the time that is done the AI will probably have researched chivalry for us.

Also, I neglected to begin research on chivalry... yet another blunder by Wardance.

Hey, don't be hard on yourself WarDance, it wasn't the first time we lost a town and it won't be the last. Defending our entire territory will be more and more dificult as we progress. Your turns were no worse than anyone elses (albeit a bit shorter ;)). I would probably have moved the horses home as well, relying on swords and cats to take care of unloads.
Regarding Chivalry, it would have been difficult for you to start researching it without Monotheism first... :p
Calcutta in the hands of America is no big deal, it won't be productive and we'll easily take it back. Losing a town to the Zulu would be a different matter, they can reinforce quickly and have their capitol close by.

The workers are perhaps starting to cost more than they're worth, but IMO there's no way we should lift the block on the SE coast until we've taken the Arab towns on the other side. Sure, we could exchange some workers in the wall for military troops, but we'll need those for, well, military. :)
I say getting Arabia fast is thus crucial. Once they are gone we can think about other things to do with our human shield. Also, never disband a worker, join him to a town (we can safely do that now since we won't pop-rush anymore).

Cutting the iron is an interesting idea. We have two sources, and a good deal of workers to reconnect them quickly. Still not sure though, I wouldn't dare that tactics myself. Good thing I'm not up. ;)

An interesting thing to note is that the Zulu will trigger their GA as soon as an Impi wins a fight, so it's a good thing you beat up the unloaded one. Any more unloaded Impi should be dealt with with extreme care. They can't get the GA through wonders, having missed out on both GLight and Colossus.

Rotation:

Niklas -
WarDance - just played
Durkz - UP!
MOTH - On Deck!
Elmarae - skip until further notice
zyxy - skip until June 4


Durkz, feel free to play 10 or 15 turns as you see fit. Let the Arabs regret they were born (or chosen to be put into this game by m-b, as it were...) :evil:

got it will play 15

Regarding the graphs, lots of interesting info can be gleaned from them. For one thing, Xteam probably built the GLib before us, but they still haven't revolted (no flattening in the culture graph indicating Anarchy).

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_AD0350_01.SAV

turn0--150AD change couple of thinghs (we dont need libraries in our corrupt towns).

turn1--170AD take back calcuta but lost a elite swordman to a 1 HP spear (this had less chance to happen then to lose a army to 4 HP spear, RNG realy hates us but it wont stop us). We dont need more workers so i stop the worker production in elmvile and start a barracks. start a HE in Brainville (20 turns)

turn2--190AD loading units and preaparing for a invasion of arabia. did some MM on Brainville and HE down to 13 turns. zulu unload 1 warrior on our mainland we kill him with ease.

turn3--210AD kill one arab galley and unload a stack of 8 units at bagdad 4 horsmen and 4 MI.
IBT- we get monoteism.

turn4--230AD start chivlary at minimal. We cant reasearch faster and to be in positive (-11 gold for 37 turns). So i converted one citizen to sientist and left sience rate at 0%. Take bagdad (decide to raze it 9 resistors in it) only 3 defending units in it but there are a lot outside cities, but mostly spear,warrior combos. Attacked a 1 HP archer with our elite horse and what do you know Murad I decides to show up.

IBT:stack of 5 immortals show near our troops in arabia.

turn5--250AD Destroyed those 5 imms while not losing any of our MI (RNG realy improved for us). Unload a few troops near medina. I used our workers to block the our island all the way to the north of our island so that galleys need to get in to the canals to unload.

turn6--260AD Captured medina and decided to keep it because it's a size 4 and only has 2 resistors. After the resistors are gone will starve it.

turn7--270AD built a fort city near Mecca. Built a town in the north india. connected dyes lux down to 10%.

turn8--280AD one of our sword died against a zulu impy so they are in GA. preaparing for an attack at mecca. HE in 6

turn9--290AD Will attack mecca on the next turn. Im using workers to lure out units from it. nikozia finished library.

IBt- america finished Sun tzu.

turn10--300AD captured mecca. only 4 defenders in it (because they bited the worker bait). Go in the city scree and what do you know 11 angy people are looking at me. raze it and settle right away.

Ibt- zulu start leo's, loking at the civassist 3 civs have inven tion so we will have it to on the next turn.

turn11--310AD not much moving one settler to act as a fort.
Ibt-we get invention (luckyly vikings are backward and dont have it)

turn12--320AD capture damascus. Now it has 1 pop so i wont raze it. Arabs have two more towns but are on the other side of the world. Conquering persia will be tough because the have pikes and they have imms. on the bright side they have low city coun on this island (only 4) so there wont be a lot of units running around. leader rush leo's in Spartanville.

turn13--330AD leo's built. Capured and razed susa but lost 3 horses in the proces, resettle right away.

turn14--340AD Finished HE few imms are on the counter attack. but they should be a problem for us.

turn15-- counterd a few imms. And a great news 3 civs have chivlary so we will have it too on the next turn.

Wow, Durkz! Way to clean up my mess! Great news about Chiv, and Leo's too.

edit: Now that chivalry is fast on the way the pillaging tactic will be VERY useful. We can build horses way faster than we can knights. Build a half dozen horses or so, connect the iron, upgrade, pillage it again, rinse and repeat. There's no quicker way to field a large number of knights. And with the worker excess, you're right Niklas we should join them to cities. May need to make a few into tax men to keep cities happy and glean a few extra coins.

About leaders, I think if we get another we should use him for the Forbidden Palace. Maybe in the Arab/ Persian lands. That could make our southern mainland cities a little more productive, too. We could really use the extra commerce to help pay unit support and fund upgrades. I don't know if we'll make it all the way to MT but even then it's so much easier to disconnect iron and saltpeter and build horsemen to upgrade straight to cav, especially now that we have Leo's.

Very nice, Durkz, very nice indeed. :goodjob:

Now that chivalry is fast on the way the pillaging tactic will be VERY useful. We can build horses way faster than we can knights. Build a half dozen horses or so, connect the iron, upgrade, pillage it again, rinse and repeat. There's no quicker way to field a large number of knights. And with the worker excess, you're right Niklas we should join them to cities. May need to make a few into tax men to keep cities happy and glean a few extra coins.
You've won me over, I think this idea has great merit now, since we have Leo's for cheaper upgrades. 30sh for a horse, then 40gp and we have a knight! Doing this for Sipahi should be even easier, assuming we get a salpeter source in a desert somewhere (and not directly under a town...), since reconnecting will be cheaper.

About leaders, I think if we get another we should use him for the Forbidden Palace. Maybe in the Arab/ Persian lands. That could make our southern mainland cities a little more productive, too.
IMO it would be a lot better if we could get the FP in our core instead (maybe Brainville) and then jump the real palace somewhere else. This has several benefits:

We get the FP in a more central location in the core than what the palace is right now.
We can (ab)use the rank corruption bug a bit (not too much though) by placing the palace in a central location somewhere not as crowded as our own core, say Delhi if we abandon the two towns we founded ourselves.
If need be, we can move the capitol several times, simply to give a boost to the front we're currently fighting at (doubt this will pay off much though). The FP is a one time build.


Of course, the great disadvantage is that we'd either need to hand-build the FP, or use two leaders, one for the FP and one for the palace. So even though it would be better with the FP in the core, it might not be worth the cost.

Edit: Oh, and I would be vastly disappointed if we didn't make it to MT, I've been looking forward to those Sipahi...

Also since Durkz won't do his work: :p

Rotation:

Niklas - On Deck!
WarDance -
Durkz - just played
MOTH - UP!
Elmarae - skip until further notice
zyxy - skip until June 4


Yikes, I'm on deck already. Hope I won't have to skip the next one...

Also since Durkz won't do his work: :p

Rotation:

Niklas - On Deck!
WarDance -
Durkz - just played
MOTH - UP!
Elmarae - skip until further notice
zyxy - skip until June 4


Yikes, I'm on deck already. Hope I won't have to skip the next one...

i would have done it but i was in a hurry to go to school ;)

chivlary will come in the right moment becouse is hard to fight horses against pikes in large cities with the imms counterattacking

pillage tactics will work like a charm

take a look at the qsc stats we are second best

Pre-flight: Check over everything - some minor MM. Switch Brainville to FP due in 12. This will let us move the Palace when we are ready. Switched 1 scientist min research to the Mil Trad line. Rush 2 Libraries needed for cultural expansion for eventual Domination win.

ibt - enemy galleys move (I won't mention this as it is every turn) We get Chivalry.

360(1) - Upgrade a Horse. Cut both Iron. Rush a barracks near the Front Line for upgrades of other horses. Switch many builds to horses. Vet Horse kills an Immortal to keep him from high ground.

ibt - Immortal attacks out vet horse and goes 2/4 before killing him. Americans start Sistine's Chapel. We get Theology next turn.

370(2) - bunch more upgrades.

ibt - we learn Theology.

380(3) - bunch more upgrades. Kill an Immortal on low ground. Found House of Moth.

ibt - Immortal takes high ground.

390(4) - bunch more upgrades. Shift units.

ibt - We lose 2 Knights during the IBT but 3 Immortals are injured. America lands a Sword and Spear in old Arab lands.

400(5) - bunch more upgrades. The wounded Immortals and the Americans all die with only a Sword loss on our part. Bunch of units in line to attack Persiopolis.

ibt - We get Gunpowder. A Persian Knight kills one of our MIs. America lands a Pike and MI.

We have 2 sources of SaltPeter, neither under a city.

410(6) - bunch more upgrades. The Americans are tough but I finish them using a 2/4 Knight. The Persians have a 2/5 Pike remaining.

ibt - galleys

420(7) - bunch more upgrades. Sink a Persian Galley. Capture and Raze Persiopolis (netting 5 Slaves). Just barely got it this time.

ibt - an Immortal shows up.

430(8) - bunch more upgrades. Found MOTHs Persian Kill and MOTHs Zulu Push. I pillage a road which cuts off the Persian Iron.

ibt - galleys

440(9) - bunch more upgrades. Sink 2 galleys. Move in more Knights.

ibt -

450(10) - bunch more upgrades. Setup for finishing off the Persians.

I have a spear and 3 workers on the Iron Hill. I have been using 1 to finish the road each turn and waiting with the Spear and 2 others until the end of the turn. Pillage, road, road. The Iron is unconnected for the IBT which means we don't have to go in and switch builds if we get a tech or a Horse builds.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_AD0450_01.SAV

Firaxis score: 1189
Jason score: 1354

Rotation:

Niklas - Up
WarDance - On Deck
Durkz -
MOTH - Just Played
Elmarae - skip until further notice
zyxy - skip until June 4

nice moves MH

we are just 344 tiles to the domination (litle smaler than our current territory)
take zulu, vikings and a few american towns and we will win

I'm up already?! You'll have to skip me as I'm going out of town tomorrow for my brother-in-law's wedding. My four year old is going to be the ring bearer and I can't wait to see him in his tuxedo :D . I'll be back Sunday night. Hopefully I'll get another set of turns before the game ends!

Our graph line is sure looking good. Can't wait to see Wacken's thread. It's curious that team Bede, the team that seems to have had the roughest time, had all contacts at the end of their QSC. The teams that are doing well only had 3 or 4 at that point. Interesting.

Edit: also interesting, team Own, which was made primarily of new players, seems to be doing just fine. I don't think I've seen their graph line move in few days though so I hope that isn't because of some calamity... Which was the other newish team? Obormot?

No, I'm up. :p You're just on deck. :)
Got it, will start playing tonight.

I'm also thorougly impressed by Team Wacken. The fact that they had more tech than us at 1000 BC counts for nothing, but that they could keep equal speed with us in expansion without sacrificing military, that's a real feat considering their workers are slower than ours.

The other new team was Darkness, which doesn't seem to be doing too well. :sad:

I amused myself with calculating ingame per-turn scores as gleaned from the list of team saves and scores. It's quite easy to get the avg per-turn score over a turnset by comparing two adjacent scores. Here's a comparison between us and Xteam:

Turnset 70-80 (1000 BC): Durkz 972 vs Xteam 925
Turnset 90-100 (550 BC): Durkz 1235 vs Xteam 1219 (getting close)
Turnset 120-130 (50 AD): Durkz 1796 vs Xteam 1706 (losing a bit again)
Turnsets 130-150 (350 AD): Durkz 2496 vs Xteam 2325 (trying to keep up)
Turnset 150-160 (450 AD): Durkz 3319 vs Xteam 2679 (lost far behind)

:D

Yes, team Wacken's stats were amazing just lloking at their unit count. 9 galleys and 21 workers! That's crazy. I wonder if they chopped their forests to help rush galleys or something.

I can never manage to build enough workers early in the game. They really help when you can do it as all future towns are that much more productive right away.

Bede having all contacts means that either they sent out a curragh or curraghs found them. Our pace of contacts was very good as it was just the right time for us to trade for a few more techs...

LOL - one team managed to pop a conscript warrior from one of the huts

zulu are importing salt from america. america is the only civ that has 2 sources of salt. we should send pillagers to pilage both sources. zulu dont have iron so we will face spears,horses and longbows when we fight them. This is a good leader farm . we should pillage salt before they upgrade their impis to muskets.

Too bad I played before I read that then... but it was already too late, they had muskets all over the place. :cry:

Save is >>here<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_AD0550_01.SAV)!

Some observations before I start: Zulu have no local salpeter, but they are trading it from America, probably for Horses. That means Zulu should go down before MT...


Preflight: Hurry a settler in Zonguldak meant for Pasgardae. Upgrade a pike
to musket. I have a job for him... MM a bit, gaining some more shields.

IBT: Persians send out a Longbowman. Zulu galley sighted E.

460 AD (1):
Sputnik founded to push the borders on Pasagardae.
vKnight kills 4/4 pike in Pasagardae, down to 1/4.
vKnight dies to 4/4 pike in P, pike to 3/4.
vKnight retreats from 3/3 pike in P, pike to 2/3.
vKnight retreats from 3/4 pike in P, pike to 2/4.
vKnight kills 2/3 pike in P flawlessly.
vKnight kills 2/4 pike in P flawlessly.
Pasagardae captured. 4 resistors, might raze but not yet.

vKnight kills 3/3 longbow on mt, down to 1/4.

Unload two vKnights on mt S of Bapedi. It's started.

IBT: Zulu vArcher dies against vKnight, promoting to 5/5.
Zulu galley sighted S Pasagardae.

FP complete, Brainville starts Marketplace.
Completion of the FP brings us from 54gpt to 94gpt. :D

470 AD (2):
3 cats and an eGalley sink a zulu galley.

Move troops. Now 7 Knights on Zulu mt.

IBT:
Zulu 4/4 musket dies to 5/5 knight, knight to 4/5.
Zulu 4/4 horse dies flawlessly to 4/4 knight.
Zulu 4/4 horse dies to 4/4 knight, knight promoted to 3/5.

America unloads a knight in former arabia.

Imm from Arbela dies against the knights of the round mt.

480 AD (3):
vKnight kills american 4/4 knight, down to 2/4.
Unload lure S Intombe.

IBT:
Zulu take out lots of muskets from Bapedi to go after the lure.
Imm from Arbela dies against the knights of the round mt.

490 AD (4):
Zulu have Chemistry!

Yoghurt founded on Zulu island, at ring 3 from Durkztanbul.
Rush walls (through worker, 120gp).

vKnight retreats from 4/4 musket in Bapedi, musket at 3/4.
vKnight dies to 4/4 musket in B, musket at 2/4.
vKnight dies to 4/4 musket in B, musket to 5/5.
vKnight kills 5/5 musket in B, to 2/4.
vKnight kills 4/4 musket in B, to 3/4.
vKnight retreats from (unf) 4/4 musket in B, no dmg.
vKnight dies to (unf) 4/4 musket in B, musket at 2/4.
vKnight kills 3/4 musket in B, promotes to 2/5.
vKnight kills 2/4 musket in B flawlessly.
4/5 eKnight dies to (unf) 2/4 musket in B, promotes to 2/5.
vMusket moves to cover our troops.
Damn, I had counted with 4 muskets, but not five. I'll have more knights
to hit with tomorrow, but then there'll be at least an eMusket there again.

IBT:
Zulu longbow kills musket.
Zulu horse dies against 4/4 knight, knight promotes to 4/5.
Zulus reinforce Bapedi...

Yoghurt builds walls.

500 AD (5):
America has Education, has traded to Zulu for Chem, the fun will end here and
now. Stil, we got more than could be expected. :)

Tokat founded to push the border on Arbela.

vKnight kills 4/4 Impi, to 3/4.
vKnight kills 3/3 zulu archer flawlessly.

Forces outside Bapedi retreat to the mt again.

IBT:
Zulu longbow kills vKnight, go to 3/5.
Zulu horse dies to vKnight, promotes to 4/5.

We get Edu and Chem.

510 AD (6):
eGalley kills zulu galley, to 3/5.

vKnight dies to Zulu 4/4 impi, impi to 3/4.
vKnight kills 3/4 impi, to 3/4.
vKnight kills zulu 4/4 warrior, to 2/4.

Evacuate wounded knights from zulu lands.

We could get Metallurgy in 25 turns at -7gpt. Don't think it's worth it.

IBT:
Lots of Zulu movement in the N, they must have gotten a boat. Sure enough...

520 AD (7):
Too bad for them I sink their galley right away. :D

vKnight kills zulu 4/4 musket, down to 3/4.
vKnight kills zulu 4/4 archer, down to 2/4.

IBT:
Brainville builds marketplace.

530 AD (8):
vKnight retreats from 3/3 pike in Arbela, pike at 2/3.
vKnight dies to 3/3 pike in Arbela, pike to 2/4.
eMace kills 2/3 pike, down to 2/5.
vKnight dies to 2/4 pike, pike at 1/4.
vKnight kills 1/4 pike, at 3/4.
Arbela captured, with Aqueduct. :lol:

vKnight dies to 4/4 Imm, Imm at 1/4.
rKnight kills 1/4 Imm, down to 2/3.

Persians are off the island.

IBT:
Zulu 4/4 longbow kills eKnight, down to 1/4.

540 AD (9):
vKnight kills 4/4 impi, to 1/4.
vKnight kills 4/4 impi, to 3/4.
vKnight kills 4/4 horse flawlessly.
vKnight kills 4/4 horse flawlessly.
vKnight kills 4/4 horse flawlessly.

IBT:
I'm stupid, and two towns riot.

550 AD (10):
I leave most of everything to the next player (don't have more time).
Two major forces are poised to strike on the Zulu.

Beware the two American galleys off the SW coast of the core.

Rotation:

Niklas - Just Played
WarDance - Skip until sunday
Durkz - Up
MOTH - On Deck
Elmarae - skip until further notice
zyxy -

hmm... should we start reasearch towards MT and lose our pillage strategy and build knights normaly or something else

i say that we start building knights normaly and to aim for sipahi

anyway nice turns nk

forgot to post got it

"got it"

will play tomorow

edit:

i just realised that we dont have to get sipahi, we are just 290 tiles from domination. conquering zulu will give us 150 tiles ( coast included) , conquering vikings will give us ~60 tiles, and we can get the rest from the north of the america. All civs are far from IA all we have to worry is cavlary and america only has horses under huston so if we capture it, no cavs for america. we can win this game in about 40-50 turns for sure.

That was my assessment too, even though I hate missing out on Sipahi. There are 53 unclaimed domination tiles that we can get simply by expanding borders and settling a few more towns. Conquering the island where the new Persian capitol is will give us quite a few as well, approx. 70. Add the 150 tiles from the zulu mainland (and coast) and thats >270 of the 290 we need. The Vikings should go down really easy, they have 70+ tiles as well. We shouldn't even have to bother about America, but taking some of their land might be faster than cranking out settlers to the most remote locations.

yea it's a shame they give us sipahi and we dont get the chance to use them :(
i will soon start to crack the zulu..

Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_AD0650_01.SAV)

turn0--550AD hmm... lot of fights to be made *rubing hands*. razed that city on the south of the zulu island, only lost one knight but around 10 of them retreated (man i love fast units).

IBT: zulu finish sinstine chapel in zimbabwe. Spot a large stack of units in zululand ( but mostly longbows and warriors guarded by a few muskets.

turn1--560AD not much units healing. Destroyed one american galley. killed one american knight (unload). settled city on spice

Ibt: mid size stack is near yogurt. lot of bows but few muskets

turn2--570AD attacked that stack with our knights and sulejman II apears, great knight army will be very helpfull right now.

turn3--580AD captured intombe lost two knights, raze it and resettle right next turn. settle fort city near zimbabwe. Captured zimbabwe but at the cost of 7 knights. razed it.

turn4--590AD founded iznik. built a army with the leader.

turn5--600AD preaparing to captire isanlh.... Some units healing. Pillage
tactics works great our stack of knights on the zululand is just unstopable.

turn6--610AD killed a stack of 5 longbows. captured isn... and decided to keep it (it's a risk i know, but it has a harbor so we can drop our lux down to 0% because we have spices connected now)

turn7--620AD not much killed another longbow/musket stack, lot of units healing, killed a viking spear in persia.

turn8--630AD attacked a american unload at the south of zululand and selim apears, woohoo. I leave the leader for the next player so we can discus move the palace somewere. maybe in isndh...ana.

turn9--640AD moved 23 knights and army to attack the new zulu capital: ulundi. Redlined one zulu galley with catapults.

turn10--650AD captured ulundi (almost lost the army 12 Hp army down to 1 hp and defending 4 HP musket down to 3 HP). positioned a lot of knights for the next player to capture hlobane.

http://img126.echo.cx/img126/7769/territory5oz.jpg

# Niklas -
# WarDance -
# Durkz - just played
# MOTH - UP
# Elmarae - skip until further notice
# zyxy -On deck

considering that we will atack to the south i think that we should rush palace in the persian territory. So we can build units in that part of our land faster

Looking good! It seems I get to play only one more turn.... :(

Aye, great work Durkz! :goodjob:

And zyxy, I very much hope you are correct, even though it's a pity the game will be over so soon.

Regarding the palace jump, I would vote Zonguldak, or possibly MOTH's Persian Kill. What we need most now is settlers, and Zonguldak has an amazing growth, as does Kirklareli and Karabuk. Placing the capitol in that area would really speed up settler production. Also the river in that area will generate a lot of gold that we can use to rush libraries along the edges.

I made a city placement plan, orange X means we need a city there, and yellow X means we need to rush a library there.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/citydom.jpg

This is of course second in priority, first and foremost we should get the Zulus and Persians close by, and the Scandinavians.

nice job Nk :goodjob:

Hmm... time for another auto-skip?

Btw, I'll most probably ask to be skipped on my next turnset. I have an upcoming deadline at work, and GOTM43 to finish, and I've played more than most already...

zyxy and MOTH

first one to post "got it" should play

Looking great, team!

I'm back from my trip now and am itching to play some civ. Think I'll fire up COTM13 tonight.

Tentative "got it", but I won't play until this evening (GMT+1). So if MOTH posts a "got it" before then, it's his. I have PM'ed him. If he doesn't, I'll post another message just before I start playing.

Waited long enough: "got it".
Will play tonight, return tomorrow.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_AD0750_01.SAV

summary

Persians and Zulu have been removed from our neighborhood. We're ready to attack Scandinavia. We are 122 tiles from domination.

turn log

Turn 0 (650AD): after playing with CivAssist I think the new palace should go to MOTH's Persian Kill. Close to the front, not too close to the FP. I hire some taxman in corrupt cities that cannot grow but have extra food. Abandon Ulundi, as it will not starve and is very likely to flip.
War plans: finish Zulu and Persia except for their cities out west. After that the backward Scandinavians, and then the knowledgeable Americans. Zulu and Americans already have Metallurgy, and Americans have iron, horses and several sources of saltpeter.

IBT: American Knight lands. Galleys move (won't record this). Several horses and settlers finish. Americans start Cop in Washington.

Turn 1 (660AD): Kill American Knight. Attack on Hlobane: kill 4 musket, 5 knights lost, 4 retreat, and Hlobane is razed (we get 5 workers). Moving troops from Main Island and Zulu Island to Pers-Arabian Island. Rush rax in MOTH's Persian Kill.

IBT: nothing.

Turn 2 (670AD): MOTH's Persian Kill rushes palace. Troop movement.

IBT: nothing.

Turn 3 (680AD): income went up by about 50 gpt. Land 4 knights near Mpondo. We're lacking galleys and I'll rush one more this turn, another on the next.

IBT: Americans land knight-musket pair. A Zulu impi attacks our knights on the hill near Mpondo, and loses flawlessly.

Turn 4 (690AD): Kill knight-musket pair at the cost of 1 knight. Mpondo taken (lost 2 knights, killed 1 musket, 1 impi).

IBT: one Persian immortal appears outside Mpondo.

Turn 5 (700AD): Killed immortal. Aydin and Cape Butterfly founded. Switch some builds to markets, as we have plenty of units, but little income. Markets will complete in 8-9 turns, and make a difference of about 20 gpt in total.

IBT: Persian longbow appears near Mpondo. We build lots of settlers.

Turn 6 (710AD): Waterdance River founded.

IBT: Zulu land a longbow. Americans have a caravel.

Turn 7 (720AD): kill longbow. Monkey Rock founded.

IBT: Americans land a knight and an MDI in two separate locations (from two ships).

Turn 8 (730AD): Knight and MDI killed, no losses. Battle for Antioch: 2 pike killed, 1 knight retreats, no losses, capture 1 worker. Antioch taken. Canal City founded. DurkzFurs founded. Cape Ape founded.

IBT: zip.

Turn 9 (740AD): Niklas Point founded. Fleet is on its way to Ragnar, next player gets to land.

IBT: zip.

Turn 10 (750AD): I'll leave movement on the galleys near Scandinavia.

Notes for the next player


Islandhwana, Antioch and Mpondo need to loose foreign pop.
There are large stacks of knights near Pasargadae and Antioch.
Don't hesitate to change build queues - I didn't really think about the corrupt towns that wouldn't finish on my turns.

Great zyxy. :goodjob:
Just 122 more tiles to go. With Scandinavia being so backwards, we should get those 122 within 20 turns. We're still ahead clearly ahead in the score graph, but I won't take anything for granted, so we should really take care to win as fast as ever possible.

As I threatened, I'll ask to be skipped this time around. I simply have too many other things to do. Thus the situation is:

Rotation:

Niklas - Skip once
WarDance - Up
Durkz - On Deck
MOTH -
Elmarae - skip until further notice
zyxy - Just Played

Got it! Will play this morning.

Here's a new, more detailed expansion map:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/citydom3.jpg

Yellow means border expansion, should be done fast since it takes 4 turns for culture to accumulate.
Orange means new town.
Red means captured town.

The numbers indicate the number of tiles we will get from each operation. Each number assumes that all the other numbers are there, for instance just doing the border expansion in Karabuk and no town beside it would yield 6 tiles.
The numbers total 138 tiles, which means there's some slack to use (16). Getting and holding all the four Viking towns is crucial. Assuming raze and replace, we thus need 13 settlers, of which 7 are for the Viking island, 4 for the south and 2 for Persia. Skipping the two 6's on the Viking island is probably the most efficient use of the "slack", but you'll just have to judge by how it all goes.

Give them a dance of death, WD. :nuke:

Sorry guys. I'm having connection problems at home, so I can't retrieve or post any game saves. You better put me on auto-skip until this is sorted out.

It's been a super busy day and I haven't gotten to the game yet... hopefully I can do it tonight after my other kiddo is in bed.

Niklas, nice analysis! You have way too much time on your hands..... :D

Another way to use the 16 spare tiles is to skip a few of the less effective libraries. But then, there is very little to build anyway, and we might just as well play it safe.
Btw, how do coast and sea tiles count? (half?) I don't remember.

MOTH, sorry to hear that. Hope it sorts out. If you can't access the site from work, we could always email save files back and forth as a temp solution.

coast counts like a normal tile for domination and sea tiles dont count for dom

Niklas, nice analysis! You have way too much time on your hands..... :D Not at all, or I'd be playing a lot more. Rather say that I like analyzing too much... :p

Btw, how do coast and sea tiles count? (half?) I don't remember.
Coast tiles count full, sea tiles not at all (but count full towards the score which is why milkers like them a lot).

Btw, since our only care at this point is to win as fast as possible, the crucial town at this point is the very last town founded. It could pay off to send the first settlers to the viking island, and the SW parts of the south island, and settle the closer locations last.

Ok, I'm playing my turns and I am in a heap of trouble. I took Oslo on the tip of the Vik island. Here's a shot of the units I have there and boy am I worried about a flip... but that's not the worst of it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/ourstack.jpg

Here's the bad part. This is a shot of what the Viks have on the doorstep!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Vikstack.jpg

Now here's the deal: I can try to hold them off and probably lose. If by some miracle I DON'T lose the town will probably flip... OR: I can evacuate every unit except one with galleys I have nearby and raze the city. Would have to choose between a settler or a knight to disband.

What should I do? If it were up to me I'd evacuate. It's obvious to me that Deity level wars are way beyond my realm of civ3 experience. I had no idea that the counterattack would be so massive.

dont keep units in conquerd cities because they are a high flip risk and you will probably need 60+ units garrisoned to stop that. having 1 or 59 makes no diference. I sugest you raze oslo and evacuate the units just to strike at another city. When all of their cities are gone those units will just desapear and we can resettle right away

Now this has spawned an interesting strategy idea. Crazy, but interesting. I think I'm going to go ahead and evacuate. Trying to hold Oslo seems pointless. We will have gained nothing and lost a great deal. It appears that the Viks don't have any fast units so... what if we use this same tactic on their other cities? I mean land a bunch of knights, take the town, raze it and evacuate? No chance of flipping, we avoid the massive counterattack, the Viks re-settle and we have cities that are size 1-3 maybe to go after when we are ready for the final assault. Crazy idea, I know. It will also deplete their income quickly and hurt their unit support. Clearly I was no where near ready for a serious attack on them. I had no idea how many units I would need. Any idea how many swords they have running around? Just a guess?

I think the best thing for me to do is evacuate, raze the town, and try to lay the groundwork for the next player to prepare for the assault. Differential naval movement sure does slow things down in this game and we definitely need some more ships. Any thoughts?

Sorry it's taken me so long to get my turns done.

Ha! Durkz responded while I was typing. All right, that's what I'll do. Man, Deity is MADNESS!

I've finally finished. I wish I had tremendous successes to report...

850 AD save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Durkz_SG007_AD0850_01.SAV)

0) 750AD: rush a library. move some galleys and knights about. Hit the button... I'm scared of this game!

IBT: Isandhlwana flips! There was an army there! Oh, no. Please don't start this way.

1) 760AD: entertainment to 10%. Retake Isandhlwana. 1 musket was there. Land 14 knights next to Oslo. Upgrade 5 horses.

IBT: 3 markets finish. 3 swords attack knights by Oslo, killing one.

2) 770AD: Take Oslo with considerable effort. Lose 5 knights, 3 to one super pikeman. Reinforcements arrive in Oslo. Rush one galley.

IBT: holy crap! 30 units outside Oslo!

3) 780AD: raze Oslo and evacuate 17 knights and one settler. One wounded knight is left behind and disbanded.

IBT: American caravel and 2 galleys off ewastern coast line. Zulu caravel up north.

4) 790AD: drop settler and knight NW of canal city. Some upgrades. Cats redline vik galley.

IBT: Americans want peace. We refuse so they drop 2 muskets, 1 longbow and one MI. Viks resettle peninsula but one tile west of the old Oslo site.

5) 800AD: Kafa founded NW of canal city. Kill American intruders, losing one vknight. 1 cat hits american caravel.

IBT: American ships moving around. Palace expands.

6) 810AD: take 2 more shots at Am caravel, both miss. 1 damage to Zulu caravel. Redline Vik galley and sink it. Davidiople founded and Alexmanika founded on sites suggested by Niklas. Rush a couple libraries to grab some more tiles. Rush a galley. Couple more upgrades.

IBT: Zulu galley appears to be bugging out. Americans drop musket and MI next to Mpondo.

7) 820AD: kill American ntruders with no losses. Cats redline vik galley. Lose a galley trying to sink it. Rush a library.

IBT: all is quiet.

8) 830AD: Sink redlined vik galley. Rush 2 galleys.

IBT: Americans drop lone sword near Mpondo.

9) 840AD: 2 hits on vik galley. eknight kills sword going 2/5. Emanopida founded SE of Antioch. Ankara founded on wine W of Antioch. Unload 16 knights next to Bjoerg-something or other.

IBT: WAshington completes Copernicus' Observatory. Lose 5 knights to counterattacks from Americans inside Vik lands and to the Vikings themselves!

10) 850AD: Kill 4 pikes, 2 swords, 1MI in Bjorgv-whatever. 1 Redlined MI remains and I'm all out of attackers. That is a huge bummer. I so would have liked to raze this town. Evacuate the wounded (6knights and a settler, how'd he get in there?)

So anyway, I wish I had more resounding victories to report. I've been ferrying units down to the south island the whole time so there is a significant force growing there. We have 10 settlers... I didn't mean to make so many. There is a setller on a ship right by the west tip of the south island that can be dropped on the spot Niklas suggested on the next turn. We probably need some workers down there. There is an American ship near Arbela but I think it is empty. It dropped off one sword earlier and that was it. I have units on the mountains near there because American ships were sailing around and I really didn't want any units landing on them. Much ewasier to mop them up if they're on flat land. The 1 citizen in Isandhlwana just refuses to settle down... he's still resisting. I left some money in the coffers so the next player can rush whatever they think is needed.

As far as the Viking problem is concerned, it's a darn good thing they don't have horses. They have tons of foot soldiers running around though. I think we might want to try going back to attacking the peninsula again. The town they resettled there is now size 3. It could be taken pretty easily I think and we could keep it or raze it and settle a new town right on the tip. The trick there is getting some catapults in there too so they can damage the footsoldiers when they waste a turn stepping into our culture. If we can eat up their offensive units this way we will fare much better.

Yikes! Now I recall that I wondered some time back how the "#¤%& the Vikings could have a military equal to ours, our Military Advisor claimed we were average against them. This was right before the attack on the Zulus, so our forces were already substantial.
Still, it could be a lot worse. All those spears could have been pikes, and the swords maces. If possible, I think we should try to strike at that stack in the open, before they get a chance to upgrade. We have more knights than they have units, and with better odds at winning. Trying to dance out of harms way, taking out the towns while staying clear of the stack, I don't think that will work fast enough.

Anyway, we're now up to 62 tiles from domination, great job WarDance. :goodjob:
The towns on the shore closest to the Vikings are really good to have, they mean that each galley can ferry 4 units per turn.
Into town (5 moves left), load, move to the opposite shore (2), unload (units have their move left), back into town (1), load, move out (-2), unload.

The failed attack on Björgvin was tough. I know the feeling, the same thing happened to me with Bapedi. One more knight and I would have had it, instead I had to pull back and hand over to Durkz to do the job... which brings me to:


Niklas -
WarDance - Just Played
Durkz - Up
MOTH - skip until further notice
Elmarae - skip until further notice
zyxy - On Deck

Well done Wardance! First strike against any opponent is always the hardest, they've had 100s of turns to build up forces. Also, on my turns, every Viking galley heading our way was hit by cats and so it returned (meaning they kept the units inside).

A good tactic would be to land a combat settler in Vik lands, build a city. As they have only slow units, we can attack them from the city. Of course deprive Viks of iron, then they'll go down fairly quickly. Jut finish them before invention.

EDIT: city should be on a hill, if possible.

A good tactic would be to land a combat settler in Vik lands, build a city. As they have only slow units, we can attack them from the city. Of course deprive Viks of iron, then they'll go down fairly quickly. Jut finish them before invention.

EDIT: city should be on a hill, if possible.

And what do you know... their iron is on a hill and it's 2 tiles from another city so it's settle-able!

got it will play tomorow

dont you guys worry about the viks i just have a plan to destroy them

dont you guys worry about the viks i just have a plan to destroy them

If you do that, us guys won't have to worry about anything anymore. :D

Spank them hard. :spank:

Actually, Durkz, I'd like to ask you a favor. I'm truly impressed by your warmongering skills, and I hope to learn a thing or two from this game. Would you mind writing down the details of your warfare for this next turnset?
I know you like to play fast (another thing I'm impressed by), but it would mean a lot to me. :)

ok i will have enough time (im almost finished with my school) to write down every attack , every significant move etc.

Great! :)

(Gee, the forum wouldn't let me write that, it complained that it was shorter than 10 characters. So now it's longer :D)

A good tactic would be to land a combat settler in Vik lands, build a city. As they have only slow units, we can attack them from the city. Of course deprive Viks of iron, then they'll go down fairly quickly. Jut finish them before invention.

EDIT: city should be on a hill, if possible.

this was my plan before i read this (we think the same)
i will start playing rgiht now

Hey, a spoiler thread to post in. Who wants the honor? :)

I'll do it, if no one else is itching to.

Oh, the suspense is killing me!!

Yeah, I'm almost starting to regret I asked him to play slow... ;)

i finishid it last night but my stupid ISP had some problems with his outer link so i was able to browse jus the local web pages and was not able to post here

Now im having some trouble uploading the final save. I PMed AlanH about this and im waiting his reply. But iw ill attach the save in the forums.

Edit:
Ok. i got an email from AlanH and he said that the save is submited.

turn0 850AD rushed a barracks in kafa. I will use is to unload units near uppsala and when the Viking SoD apears, will use 10 knights to attack it and then evacuate units to kafa to heal. Repet this two or three times and their SoD will be gone and we will have no problem to conquer them from here. First i tought to use a settler and knights to land at the iron hill, but i realised that they will kill any unit that land there because it's too close to their capital (they allways hold a lot of units near their capital). So i will land a settler to the iron hill just if enough units goes for our knight at the uppsala.

turn1 860AD built a barrack in kafa and i unload 10 knights near uppsalla. Move some units from our cores towards the viks (wont write this). And killed one american galley near Anikara.
http://img133.echo.cx/img133/5476/biz8jg.jpg

IBt: stack of 26 (9 spears 15 swords and 2 archers) units apear our 10 knights. we were attacked by 1 archer and 3 swords but we won all the fights and only 2 units are injured ( one elite knight is down to 1 hp another eKnight is down to 2 hp)

turn2 870AD because so many units came for our knights i see an oportunity to land settler on the iron hill with a 2 vKnights and a few wounded ones and hope for the best. destroyed one viking galley with a help from catapults form kafa.
(v.e.r)K-(veteran, elite, regular knight)
(v.e.r)S-(--------the same------- sword)
(v.e.r)Sp-(----------------------- spear)
(v.e.r)A-(------------------------ archer)
(v.e.r)P-(------------------------ pike)

"Opeartion Island Rat"--phase 1 "The creation"
vKnight VS vSpear (3/4 vs 0/4)
vK----vSP (4/4 vs 0/4)
vK----vSP (1/4 (retreat) vs 4/4 heh)
vK----vSP (2/4 vs 0/4)
vK----vSP (2/4 vs 0/4)

vK----vSP (0/4 vs 1/4)
vK----vSP (1/4 vs 0/4)
vK----vSP (3/4 vs 0/4)

phase one result (ibt counted) = 4 (ibt) + 6 = 10 killed one lost
evacuation and new units are ready for next turn

IBT: our landed settler survives the 4 attacks but one knight died. That stack of now 20 units moved towards our settler (just as i planed :P). Spoted a zulu cravel, what do they think they are (loking to regain their conquerd lands)

turn3 880AD Rushed a lib in alexmi... and in Cape butter ( we need those tiles). Fonded a Blakriklarightakgzughat (do you like the name ;) ) on the iron and rushed walls in it. And unloaded 10 knights near Upaslla. Unloaded 2 knights in Blakriklarightakgzughat (hope that it will hold enough so wounded WD's knights can heal). I take a deap breath and press enter.

IBT: our stack of 10 knights in not attacked but a SoD of 15 units apear near of it (1 Pike, 3 Spears, 4 MI, 7 Swords). haha it's good that the SoD splited down if it attacked Blakriklarightakgzughat we would have lost it. Blakriklarightakgzughat survives the fight at the cost of 3 knights but in the proces of fighting we killed around 8-9 units ( i lost count).

turn4 Not much some worker jobs done. killed an american caravel near kafa (ctapult helped ofcourse). Founded Moglu on the perisan/zulu exile. Walls done in Blakriklarightakgzughat and units are healing in it. Unloaded 2 knights in it.
"Opeartion Island Rat"--phase 2 "The fall"

vK---Vp (1/4 (retreat) vs 4/4)
vK---Vp (3/4 vs 0/4)
vK---VSp (2/4 vs 0/4)
vK---VSp (1/4 vs 0/4)
vK---VSp (4/4 vs 0/4)
vK---VS (1/4 (retreat) vs 3/4)
vK---VS (4/4 vs 0/4)
vK---VS (4/4 vs 0/4)
vK---VS (1/4 vs 0/4)
vK---VS (3/4 vs 0/4)

Sumary of the phase 2
Killed 8 units and didnt lost any (exept those 3 knights in Blakriklarightakgzughat)
evacuating units and more units are ready to unload on the next turn.

Ibt: Two MI and Two Swords trow themselfs on our walled Blakriklarightakgzughat (offcorse they all lose).

turn5 900AD resistance finaly stoped in Isandhlwana. Not much some of our units moving towards the Viks. unloaded a total of 14 Knights near Upslala (or something like that)because i think that this time their stack wont be big so i unloaded more than i can evacuate. founded "I am so good" at the far SE of the exile lands.

Ibt: stack of....... hahaha 4 (3 swords and one archer) units apear near our 14 Knight stack haha im so happy.

Turn6 910AD Units in Blakriklarightakgzughat heald and i will use them to attack bjoergvin. And so will 14 knight stack attack uppsala. rushed a lib in Cape ape, Isnahala, House of MOTH, Medina and in "I am so good".

"Battle for Bjoergvin"

eK---Vp (2/5 vs 0/4)

haha that's it no more units in Bjoergvin i was LMAO when this happend (thank you WarDance).

"Battle for Uppsala"

vK---vS (2/4 vs 0/4) out
VK---vS (1/4 vs 0/4) out
vK---vS (4/4 vs 0/4) out
eK---vA (1/5 vs 0/4) out, :eek: but heh archer are tough on defense (especialy if are on grassland)

eK---vSp (1/5 (retreat) vs 3/4) town
eK---VSp (2/5 vs 0/4) town
eK---3/4Vsp (4/5 vs 0/4) town----------- we get a leader hahaaha (just what we need to take the first blow when attacking the capital)
vK---rA (4/4 vs 0/3) town

we take Uppsala and i create an army in it load a few units and move out towards nidaros (capital).

Ibt: nothing happens on the viks island they burned all of their units *rubing hands with greede*

turn7 920AD hahahahaha im so happy we are only 11 tiles to the domnation am so happy i could sing (i hope we will take Nidaros this turn because it will grant us more than 11 tilles so it will be over).

"Battle for the Domination" (nidaros)
12/13Army---vP (5/13 vs 0/4)
eK----vP (1/4 (retreat) vs 4/4)
eK----vP (0/5 vs 1/4 )
eK----vP (0/5 vs 1/4)
eK----vSp (3/5 vs 0/4)
vK----rSp (2/4 vs 0/3)
vK----1/4vP (2/4 vs 0/4)
vK----1/4vP (4/4 vs 0/4)

capture nidaros (civassist tells me that we are -4 tiles to domination)i founded a few cities to get some coastal tiles (just in case something goes wrong). check with civassist again -10 tiles to dom.

I press enter remebering all the good times with this SGOTM.

Ibt: bjorgevik deposed but because of our "just in case cities" we win by domination in 930 AD. (checked later we were -1 in domination after the flip)

I gloat for about 10 mins on the leader screen. Yes we are the big dogs now ( i think to myself). Ghandi wants to go agan (you would be destroyed the second time too). Gandi got bounced and the other clowns just wached (they were not able to help even if they wanted).

....we win by domination in 930 AD....

Too bad, I was hoping to get another turn :)

Seriously: well played everyone! A fun game. I had the impression it was actually easier than a standard AWE (but then I probably missed the hardest part). I hope to be around a bit more for the next SGOTM.

Wardance: you're welcome to do the spoiler report as far as I am concerned.

Too bad, I was hoping to get another turn :)

Seriously: well played everyone! A fun game. I had the impression it was actually easier than a standard AWE (but then I probably missed the hardest part). I hope to be around a bit more for the next SGOTM.

Wardance: you're welcome to do the spoiler report as far as I am concerned.
it was easier because it was a staged game
i mean we had 3 sheep (like 3 cows) in the starting radius.
we had the biggest island to ourself, we had iron, horses, salt all on our island.
etc...

[party] Woohoo!!! We rock!

A great game, I had lots and lots of fun with it. I can't wait for SGOTM8. :cool:

WarDance, please, go ahead. Tell the world how good we are! (I'm just so full of myself, aren't I? ;))

i was looking at the x-teams tread and they are close to us but they havent conqued the exile land and are in 850 AD they cant conquer the exile lands and some viking land in 8 turns so we are safe from them

P.S.

you can look the other peoples treads now we finished our game

P.S of the P.S

who wants to stay in this team for the SGOTM8 (we can give it some other official name)

I did, and I'd be surprised if Team Peanut doesn't beat us to the mark. :eek: They're at 650 AD, that's 28 turns from our finishing date, and they are beginning their assault on the Vikings. They have still to conquer India, that's what's keeping them, but from the way they talk they believe that will be done in the next turnset or so. I can't believe it will take them 28 turns to win, so I guess the laurel's not for us this time. :sad:

who wants to stay in this team for the SGOTM8 (we can give it some other official name)
I'll certainly stay. I'm happy with the name too, you're doing a good job leading us. :)

I did, and I'd be surprised if Team Peanut doesn't beat us to the mark. :eek: They're at 650 AD, that's 28 turns from our finishing date, and they are beginning their assault on the Vikings. They have still to conquer India, that's what's keeping them, but from the way they talk they believe that will be done in the next turnset or so. I can't believe it will take them 28 turns to win, so I guess the laurel's not for us this time. :sad:

hmm... it wont be so easy they have lot of holes to fill up and they are underestimating india (india will have stack of probably 30+ units. mostly muskets and We). everyone knows that they are hard to beat.
india has muskets and has war elephants and the viks probably have the same stack as they had against us.
so dont be suprised if they dont beat us

most indian cities are size 6+
fortified musket in a city on grass defends at 7,4 that means it will win 80% of fights against MI (32 MI will die to kill 8 muskets)
and will win 40% of fights against knights. 40% knight will retrea and be down to 1 hp( this will slow them down)
their army consist of a lot of MI and cats (they have about 45 cats) and dont have a lot of knights. cats cant do much against Muskets in a city.

I downloaded their game and played ahead. The Indians have only two living WEs, most if not all of their forces are pikes with muskets in the towns. The Vikings don't yet have Feudalism, which means swords and spears if they strike fast.
Hopefully it will take them long to battle through the Indian lands, thereby stalling the Viking invasion. They have too few galleys at the moment, and need a lot of settlers, but 28 turns is a lot...

Alright, I won't give up just yet, but I'll be watching the Team Peanut thread like a hawk!

XTeam won't beat us for sure though, far too much left. But we shan't forget Team Tao and Team Ivan, even though they seem to be falling behind at the moment.

i downloaded it too
they are 290 tiles to limit we were 214 tiles to the limit then
and they have to get to dom in 27 to win 28th (if they win at the same time as us we will be winners because of the higher score (?) )
that means that they have to get to dom limit in 26 turns
that means they need to get more than eleven tiles per turn to defeat us
anyway it's going to be wery close

Hey Durkz, what was our Jason score for this game? I just saw Wacken's unbelievable 13k+... Their multiplier is 7 to our 6, but still... :eek:

um cant tell realy because submision page had some errors
and we were the first team to submit so we could not get the stats
later when i PM AlanH he repaired it so other teams could see jason socre (and other stuf but) we could not.

Good job guys! Impressive play... And since Wackens and Durkz don't compete with each other i hope you get the laurel ;) (Looks like you will anyways but i haven't checked all the threads yet)

who wants to stay in this team for the SGOTM8 (we can give it some other official name)

Sure. Looking forward to it.


It will be hard to say who is going to win the laurel. Some of the other teams (tao) are not very far into the game yet.

I haven't had any time this weekend to work on our spoiler so if anyone else has some free time before tomorrow, have at it.

I would like very much to stay with the team as well...

Xteam finished in 1020AD. so we at least beat one team!

Any chance you could dig up our Jason score for SGOTM7? Durkz says the submission page had errors so he never got to know it.

Thx, Niklas

Firaxis: 8851, Jason: 10649. Well done :D

Woohoo, we beat the magic 10k! And in an AWD game at that, we're good! :cool:

peanut soted their 750 save they have to get 220 tiles in 16 turns to beat us and i realy think that they wont be able to do it

@dmanakho
tnx
you think that our play was impresive... if our was impresive yours was very very very impresive
you guys went over 13K in jason (i never have seen somone do that)
anyway great job guys

Peanut will be a close call surely. Even more worrying is tao with that rising curve... Why can't people play faster?? :p ;)

i compared the tao and our 50 ad save and they conquerd only one city more then we did
anyway it's early to tell the might finish 10 turns before us and they might finish 10 turns after us

i dont think that peanut will win over us. they managed to get 70 tiles in the last 10 turns and now they need to get 220 tiles in 16 turns
i played one turn from their 750 ad save an i can say that a lot of bad things is going to happen to them :evil:

Well a new harddrive and most of my data recovered I am back in business. Nice to see you completed the game. Sorry about my absence for so long.

i played one turn from their 750 ad save an i can say that a lot of bad things is going to happen to them :evil:

You aren't kidding! That was ugly. Even though the Viks don't have Feudalism they still have tons of foot soldiers running about and the stacks that showed up by Oslo were even bigger than the ones that appeared when I attacked there in my turns. And the Americans landed a serious little squad on their south island next to an undefended city that no defenders can reach in time.

You aren't kidding! That was ugly. Even though the Viks don't have Feudalism they still have tons of foot soldiers running about and the stacks that showed up by Oslo were even bigger than the ones that appeared when I attacked there in my turns. And the Americans landed a serious little squad on their south island next to an undefended city that no defenders can reach in time.
I got curious.. and tried to load the save too.. and oh wow..
Wonder why the viking invasion was so easy in our (xteam) game.. perhaps because they had muskets so all the cheapear units was disbanded to defisiency, and they were not able to build muskets and galloglass fast enough to replace them.. I only saw a total of 6 offensive units in viking lands.. and 2 of them I killed on offense and 2 attacked a fortified city in the final IBT.

Well a new harddrive and most of my data recovered I am back in business. Nice to see you completed the game. Sorry about my absence for so long.
Hi El, welcome back! :wavey:
Glad to hear you're back on track, and sorry for you that you missed out on this game. Hope you'll stay with us for the next one instead. :)

You aren't kidding! That was ugly. Even though the Viks don't have Feudalism they still have tons of foot soldiers running about and the stacks that showed up by Oslo were even bigger than the ones that appeared when I attacked there in my turns. And the Americans landed a serious little squad on their south island next to an undefended city that no defenders can reach in time.

Heh... Hehe... :lol: :lol: :lol:
I counted 41 foot soldiers, and then I didn't count the numerous ones that hid in Oslo. And those Americans. Poor Peanuts will have a touch ride... I still don't dare to hope, but things are looking better and better. For us :evil:

Finally I have some time to do our spoiler... working on it now.

**This is my preliminary spoiler. Let me know if you want to add or change anything. I'll add images when I actually post it**

Team Durkz: Durkz, Elmarae, MOTH, Niklas, Wardance, zyxy.

From our pre-game discussions we arrived at 4 basic strategies to work with. 1: the Great Library... we want it. We will build it. We NEED it! 2: Research pottery first for a granary in our 1st city. 3: Switch to Monarchy as soon as is feasible. 4: We are hoping to be alone on our island as that will definitely help with our expansion phase.

Our intended research path is: pottery, alphabet, writing, literature, iron working, mathematics. After math we hope to have completed the Great Library and will then turn off research.

General Niklas, master of the spreadsheet, comes up with something I have never seen before; a plan detailing our opening builds of the first city to make it a 6 turn settler factory. But then again I am new to the CivFanatics community so perhaps everyone is familiar with such things...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/startseq21.jpg

Niklas opens the game for us, founding Durkztanbul in the starting position and spotting the third sheep. This throws Niklas' plan all out of whack and a NEW spreadsheet must be created to detail the creation of a 4-turn settler factory instead of 6!

We meet India only 5 turns into the game and trade masonry and bronze working for alphabet and ceremonial burial. Of course war is declared, much to Ghandi's dismay. We meet the Zulu on the following turn and trade masonry and bronze working for pottery, warrior code +10 gold. War is declared!

By 3450BC the barbarians are already becoming a nuisance. Partly because of a hut we popped and partly because... well, there's simply a bunch of 'em!

Looking at the map we decide to build our cities loosely in RCP 3 and 6, but we don't strictly follow it. More important we decide is to have cities 3 tiles apart for quick unit movement between towns. So it's more like CxxC. Our first city is founded in 2710 and by then we are cranking out the settlers as quickly as we can. Durkztanbul is turned into a 4 turn warrior/ settler combo factory.

In 2030BC, Iznik begins the pre-build for the Great Library. We meet the Arabs not long after in 1650BC. They know Persia and have the wheel. We buy the wheel from them before declaring war.

Quickly following, the Zulu build the Pyramids and the Oracle. In 1300BC we meet Persia. We buy their world map and declare war.

In 1100BC the first foreign interlopers land on our island- an Arab settler escorted by a warrior. And So the real battle begins!

In 1000BC we have 13 cities and 40 pop.
2 barracks, 2 granaries
9 workers, 2 slaves
8 swords, 9 warriors, 2 spears, 1 chariot.
(We built a few archers to help with barb control but they were KIA)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/durkz1000bc.JPG

Score: 432 (firaxis)
33 gold in the coffers and 39gpt
The Great Library will be finished in 9 turns!

Our plans for the future: India will be the first to fall. They don't need any resources to build War Elephants and we really don't want to face them. The Zulu have no iron so we will leave them alone for now, maybe land a suicide squad with the intent of triggering their GA early so we don't face them DURING their GA. So after India we will set our sights on Arabia followed by Persia. For home defense we are building catapults to discourage the other civs galleys, and mostly building horse units for eventual upgrades, with swords thrown in for good measure.

I like it. It's not just a description, but a living story. Makes for a nice read. :)

... and there the fun was over, Peanut beat us by a full 9 turns :eek: :eek:

Next game we clearly need to stay our horses a bit, finishing fast (real-time) is clearly not an advantage in an SGOTM game.

Nice story!

And yes: being beaten by 9 turns is a downer. Especially as we could probably have shaved off 10-20 turns by more careful play....

Still, well played, and we beat Xteam. Just need to be better next time. ;)

Ok, I have to rant and vent for a moment.

Grrrr. Mother-in-laws. So my wife's mom comes over to use my computer for a minute to check her email. After being down in the computer room for a half hour she comes up to tell me that she can't get on the internet. I come down to check and sure enough I can't get on the net either. Device manager shows me I don't have a network card installed. huh? "What did you do?", I ask. "Well, it locked up so I rebooted and a couple windows popped up so I just checked no or x'ed them out and I can't get on the internet". Now I'm trying to get the kids ready for naptime so I really don't have time to fix the thing so... "Sorry, I guess you're not getting on the net today :)"

I have no idea what she was trying to do but I had to uninstall and reinstall my network software. Bah! No wonder her computer doesn't work and she had to come use mine!

Anyway, I'm obviously back on the net and will post our spoiler now.

And yes: being beaten by 9 turns is a downer. Especially as we could probably have shaved off 10-20 turns by more careful play....

I can't help but wonder if the game could have been won in my last turnset and I was simply too cautious. My apologies. I may replay them to see what happens... maybe there is something to be learned there.

I can't help but wonder if the game could have been won in my last turnset and I was simply too cautious. My apologies. I may replay them to see what happens... maybe there is something to be learned there.
I too wonder that, but there's certainly no need to appologize. My situation when first going after the Zulu was much the same, and my attack on Bapedi was very much like yours on Bjoergvin. To beat Tao, we would have needed to speed up a lot of things... :crazyeye:
My primary motivation for joining SGOTM was to learn something, and that I have most certainly done!

Im ALIVE!!!
i was away because i had some computer problems

im looking at other peoples treads now team tao's score exploded realy

too bad
i was hoping we win but hey it was a great game
i look forward for the neyt sgotm. What do you thing about a name team "Undead" (yes im a warcraft fanatic)

btw--nice spoliler WD :goodjob:

Oh, hiya Durkzie :)

No, I don't like the name Undead (nor do I like your new avatar :p). Team Durkz is way better. If we must change, then give it a humorous twist. Don't have a good suggestion myself though, so maybe I should just be quiet :crazyeye:

Btw, I'll be going on vacation starting next week (18th), possibly up to 5 weeks, so if SGOTM8 starts before mid-August I may not be there. Will you sign me up anyway if I miss the thread? :)

Oh, hiya Durkzie :)

No, I don't like the name Undead (nor do I like your new avatar :p). Team Durkz is way better. If we must change, then give it a humorous twist. Don't have a good suggestion myself though, so maybe I should just be quiet :crazyeye:

Btw, I'll be going on vacation starting next week (18th), possibly up to 5 weeks, so if SGOTM8 starts before mid-August I may not be there. Will you sign me up anyway if I miss the thread? :)

hey
Okie dokie. will sign you up.
5 weeks vacation :eek: , what are you rich or something :crazyeye:

5 weeks vacation :eek: , what are you rich or something :crazyeye:
Heh, wish I was. :crazyeye:
No, the thing is it's my first vacation in quite some time, and my employer is quite generous on top of that. I won't be going away for a full five weeks, but since I work with computers daily I'll simply try to stay as far away from mine as possible for a while...

Just to let you know: sign-ups for SGOTM8 are up. And it's a crazy one....

Crazy is just the beginning! :eek:
But crazy in a good way. I really like this one, I can't wait to put my research skills to good use.

Crazy is just the beginning! :eek:
But crazy in a good way. I really like this one, I can't wait to put my research skills to good use.
I am looking forward to see what strats the different teams will use to try to beat this in the quickest possible time.. :)

wow it was so long since i fought a MA war... and this is an insane variation but it should be fun

I am looking forward to see what strats the different teams will use to try to beat this in the quickest possible time.. :)

I think I will teach the Americans to swim....