:confused: Did you ever think there should be a thoing in between allies and enemys if you dont give any care for the civilization, you dont want war, and you dont want peace, you dont want them to bother you. :sad:
Well :confused: i think thee should

I agree. It should be possible to declare neutrality, but not until modern times. I don`t think the mongols would have paid any attention to a declaration of neutrality. There should be som requirements though and a serious rep hit for those who violate neutrality. However I don`t think we`ll see this option in CivIV.

I agree. It should be possible to declare neutrality, but not until modern times. I don`t think the mongols would have paid any attention to a declaration of neutrality. There should be som requirements though and a serious rep hit for those who violate neutrality. However I don`t think we`ll see this option in CivIV.

What do you mean? Declaring neutrality doesn't mean that you will never have to fight in a war, including in the modern era. Neither Hitler nor the Mongols would have listened to any country declaring neutrality.

That being said, I'm not opposed to neutrality. A country could declare neutrality and be allowed to trade non-military resources or ROP in war zones to either party. This would be a great addition to diplomacy.

From the view of a Swiss and having some knowledge in history (of my country) I got to say, I don't want to see neutrality in. To me and my experience, neutrality has never been more than an ettiquette. For Switzerland, it meant, that we fought no war with arms and on the battlefield, but we certainly weren't neutral if you look on the other sides, for example economical interests or diplomacy.
You probably have heard of the 'reparation' payments, the US or some Jews claimed (correctly, but too much money imo) from Switzerland in the aftermath of WWII and in the ninties (because of the role of CH in WWII).

That's why I would not include it, because it's simply a word and has little or less behind. And I mean, if you declare war on nobody in civ(3/4) in a World War, you are neutral, aren't you?

mitsho

What do you mean? Declaring neutrality doesn't mean that you will never have to fight in a war, including in the modern era. Neither Hitler nor the Mongols would have listened to any country declaring neutrality.

That being said, I'm not opposed to neutrality. A country could declare neutrality and be allowed to trade non-military resources or ROP in war zones to either party. This would be a great addition to diplomacy.

In World War II, Hitler DIDN'T invade Switzerland, Sweden and Spain, all neutral and nearby European countries.

No, because he didnt need to, they did what he wanted anyways. Or rather; they helped him enough for it to be in his advantage not to invade them.

No, because he didnt need to, they did what he wanted anyways. Or rather; they helped him enough for it to be in his advantage not to invade them.

I don't agree completely. Hitler would have loved to get a "Right of Passage" through Spain to grab the British Gibraltar base, which would have crippled Churchill's Mediterranean strategy, but Franco refused to cooperate.

I do agree that Hitler was getting some valuable resources from Sweden without having to invade. And Switzerland was not that important, geographically, except warplanes couldn't fly over it between Germany and Italy.

That sounds like a scenario thing, not an actual game thing.

No, because he didnt need to, they did what he wanted anyways. Or rather; they helped him enough for it to be in his advantage not to invade them.

Well, the same could be said about the Allies. England invaded neutral Norway in 1940. Germany, just beat them to it. Nevetherless, Churchill had given the order to invade neutral Norway and such British troops eventually reached Norway, just too late.

The Allies invaded neutral Iran in 1942. England invaded neutral Iraq in 1941. England attacked neutral France from 1940-1942. The US and England invaded the North African territories of neutral France (Vichy) in 1942. The United States was purportedly neutral until late 1941; nevertheless Roosevelt ordered the US Navy to shoot at German ships, in violation of US neutrality.

And yes, Vichy France counts as a neutral country. Lest anyone claim Vichy France was a German "puppet", I would like to point out that Petain, the WWI French war-hero, routinely refused Hitler's requests to join the Axis and the like. He was clearly not taking orders from Germany. This is why Germany invaded Vichy France in 1942. If Vichy France were really a "puppet" the Germans wouldn't have needed to invade her in 1942. The claims that Vichy France was a puppet are just justifications for Allied aggression against neutral Vichy France.

In conclusion, the cases of Iran, Iraq, Vichy France and Norway show that the Allies did not respect neutrality anymore than Germany did.

My suggestion in game therms: Declaration of Neutrality
- Available with Democracy and / or Nationalism
- May not sign embargoes or MPP`s
- ROP only with civs not engaged in war
- May be declared after 50 years of peace
- Allowed only 2 military units/city, 1 naval unit/ coastal city,
1 air unit/airport, no unit upkeep for units in cities or fortresses.
- Increased happiness/ health or whatever comes in CivIV
- Better realations with other civs
- May not build Manhattan Project

When neutrality is violated:
- Attacker gets HUGE rep hit
- ALL neutral civs embargo and negates all previous agreements with the attacker
- Attacker may not declare neutrality himself until 80 years of peace
- All defenders units gets upgrades for free.

So what do you think? :confused:

Switzerland was pretty important. It was the marketplace for Germany where the third reich traded with the allies. It protected German goods and granted them passage through the Gotthard, the fastest and safest way to Italy and vice versa. We were neutral what affected direct war, but otherwise we produced ammunition etc. for Germany, sold their stolen gold on the worldmarket and many more.

mitsho (that's how I see it as a Swiss)