I have always wondered why couldn't they just develop sea features to the extend they do with land ones.

So, I conjured up the following features I would really like to see implemented in Civ4.

1) Introduce SEA POLLUTION; especially with the upcoming "boatworkers" this has to be available.

2) Introduce SEA RESOURCES, both luxury and strategic. For instance, in areas with extended shallow waters there could be PEARLS, potentially exploitable by marinas (offshore harbors), while at a distance of 1-2 tiles from the coastline there could be OIL, potentially exploitable by offshore platforms.

3) Introduce DEPTH ANALOGICAL MOVEMENT COST; I have seen this idea somewhere else and I put it here just to gather everything in one place. [oceans will have a movement cost of 3, while semi-shallow waters a cost of 2]


That's all up until now. Feel free to add any other ideas.

Those are all great ideas and should be included. :)

I agree that there should be more resources in the sea.. I think on some of the screenies, that is the case, too. Pearls would be cool to add as a tradeable resource. Maybe have 'shellfish' to add to the variety of your civ's diet.

Sea Pollution probably won't make it, as Firaxis has stated they are doing away with pollution (although an occasional oil spill in the modern age would be pretty neat).

Not sure about your sea movement ideas, either.. already on an Earth Map, it takes years to cross the Atlantic... movement is more abstract...

I think I would add something to the game if there were "safe" water squares, where the units traveled full speed and dangerous sea squares, where some or all ships were either prevented from going or maintaining full speed.

Safe Squares would include deep ocean, natural harbors, etc
Dangerous would include ice, icebergs, Rocky shores, sea mines, etc.

The addition of dangerous and safe squares could help limit the locations of naval amphibous lands to make their strategy more important.

i agree with the pearls and luxuries idea, why should land get to have all the fun??? :rolleyes:

also that safe and dangerous tiles idea is good

1) Introduce SEA POLLUTION; especially with the upcoming "boatworkers" this has to be available.
Well, I think there won't exist any pollution in Civ4, one of things called as "boring". To clean pollution is terribly boring.

2) Introduce SEA RESOURCES, both luxury and strategic. For instance, in areas with extended shallow waters there could be PEARLS, potentially exploitable by marinas (offshore harbors), while at a distance of 1-2 tiles from the coastline there could be OIL, potentially exploitable by offshore platforms.
There's a screen avaible somewhere with a dark stain in the sea, is it oil? And there will be oil platforms, I saw it somewhere, possibly in this forum.

3) Introduce DEPTH ANALOGICAL MOVEMENT COST; I have seen this idea somewhere else and I put it here just to gather everything in one place. [oceans will have a movement cost of 3, while semi-shallow waters a cost of 2]
Yes, nice idea. But some big and advanced ships must not have great speeds at shore lines. They aren't secures traveling there at full speed. It will also add more strategy :). Small and very ancient ships must never go far deep in ocean squares (or at least always sink if finish a turn in an ocean square).

For sea ressources, I think there should be City improvement capable to get any ressource in the city radius (or more). The platform will be more realistic, this way. Every ressource would need an improvements. Harbors could maybe allow to get fish. Before you can use the ressource, oit is like it was not there (you know iot is there, but you can't use it for trade or for city). Btw, sea ressources are tradable in civ4. Read the prerelease infos.

About the 3) thing, I don't agree. Civ3 model is better.

Galleys couldn't cross oceans, so they didn't slow them down. Nowadays, a battleship/destroyer crosses an ocean with the same speed as shallow water (usually it has to slow down in shallows).

Pearls would be nice!!! :goodjob:

I definitely want to see some of these ideas in Civ 4, especially 2) and the idea about safe and dangerours squares. I also want to see some improvements for some danger squares, ie lighthouses on rocks, giving 2 sight range and removing danger, but requires worker in transport. I also think that some danger squares should allow you to land units but not build cities.

I agree with the first two, but turns take up to 25 years each, it doesn't make sense that a modern ship couldn't travel the water fast

Isn't that a problem tied to Civ anyhow? When you start the game, turns take 50 years. Do you really believe it took settlers 250 years from leaving home to find a decent spot? That would probably mean it took 5 generations to reach it which is highly unlikely.

Back to the ideas: I like all of them and with the much expanded amount of resources in Civ4 it could very well get real. If not you can always mod it (same goes for Civ3 btw).

More reesources in the water cant be bad.Dont agree with the movment one for the same reasons as other people.Think the idea about safe and dangerous spaures should be introduced because it is very realistic.One thing that they should add I think is that there should be ocean currents that give movment bonuses when in them traveling in the same way and movment disadvantages when movintg against them.

Currents is an interesting idea, but I'm not so sure currents in the real world really gives ships that much of a speed benefit (most currents are below surface water, aren't they?). What gives sailing ships a speed benefit, however, is WIND. Introducing some kind of global wind pattern you could capitalize on with sailing ships would perhaps be cool. You don't need a too complex model to work out a reasonably realistic wind model when creating a map.

Great, indeed this should be included :)

I would propose to have early sea units not being able to enter deep ocean at all (the exploit of suicide galleys would be gone by that).
Additionally, movement on ocean tiles should be FASTER than on shore tiles. On the ocean, you face the least danger and the least restrictions to your movement, while near the shores you have to look out not to run into sandbanks, riffs and... well, the shores itself.

I would propose to have early sea units not being able to enter deep ocean at all (the exploit of suicide galleys would be gone by that).
Additionally, movement on ocean tiles should be FASTER than on shore tiles. On the ocean, you face the least danger and the least restrictions to your movement, while near the shores you have to look out not to run into sandbanks, riffs and... well, the shores itself.
I agree. Early sea units can't enter ocean squares or have a huge chance for sinking. There may be a speed limit for shore squares, called "safe speed".

I have never understood why the ancient (and obsolete) ships become able to traverse ocean squares when certain techs are obtained in Civ III.

Because they learned how to use the stars to get accross the ocean!

I'd like to see: 1. bridges alowing to span 1 or 2 costal squares
2. sea tunnels spanning 3 or 4 sea squares
this would allow for better trade troop movement aswell as better intigration of proxy-islands into the Empire

@ N3pomuk : Do you know how big is a tile? it is very big. and, after a while, you would have linked every sea tile to ground tiles. I disagree with your idea.

Yea well it al depends on how big your map is... I like big maps! But since Civ4 is supposed to be very modable, why can't we reduce the "range" for small maps?

And well how big would you say a sea tile is? I'd say less wide than the "pas de calais" and the Euro tunnel, and at least as wide as the Akashi Kaikyo Bridge spanning to shikoku. So I'd say realistic.
Plus the Idea is not to link every sea tile to ground tiles, it is to link ground tiles to ground tiles via sea tiles, that is a big difference.

cheers

I think a tile is 100km * 100 km, but I'm not sure. I'm at school, I can't see in civ. but tunnels overr 1 sea tile is ok, but only if there is a way to limit them.

Copied and pasted from another thread, cos there seems to be two saying the same thing!
Ive got an exam on tunnelling in a week! Oh wot fun.
A one space sea tunnel is probably the same length as the channel tunnel. It'd probably have to take at least 20 years to build and only be available sometime early in the modern era. Also you'd have to own the land at the other side of the sea or a friendly neighbour who agrees to help build the project (it'd have to be built from both ends). All in all its probably a bit too complex and doesnt really give any amazing benefits for the game.

Well see it as you may, but it is just an Idea that will help unify your empire.

Another thought, chanels and canals, what happend? these things were defining! The revolutionary way to transport goods before rails and the way to get capitol ships aaround the world more quickly.