We have seen too many tanks fighting spearmen from isolated civs. (And too spearmen beating the tank too :D ). And too many good games lost from being out-tech because of tech booming from trading CPUs.

I have quite a few ideas to fight out-tech, but it must remains a possibility in the game to out-tech our opponents so it did happen in real life!!

So there they are :

1 or 2 contacts available from the start : would allow isolated civs a chance to stay in the game!!
Replace full tech trading with partial tech trading: instead of trading 100% of the tech, the tech trading would allow a 50-75% bonus in research time. The receiving civ would still have to research the tech, but it would take much less time than if it wasn't traded. Could be explained by the time people need to understand and control the tech. Would prevent instantaneous tech booming.
A tech already discovered by another civ would take less time to research : and more the tech is outdated, less it would cost.
Fighting/destroying advanced units would give a 25% bonus researching the corresponding tech.

Yeah. I like all these stuff. Keep on like that.

yeah i like all except #2, it seems kind of pointless

unless you were to have an option where you could trade full tech or partial tech, like territory map and world map

yeah i like all except #2, it seems kind of pointless

unless you were to have an option where you could trade full tech or partial tech, like territory map and world map

Why pointless?!? :crazyeye: It's in fact the most important of all.

It's the ONE will prevent tech booming.

When you have the ability to fully exchange a tech, the new acquired one can be exchanged further and so on, leading to tech booming. The research of one tech can technically lead to the discovery of 3, 4 5 techs.

It's just what have happened in the game I'm playing. 4 civs behind me scientifically. Next turn, all the my neighborgs have 2-3 tech ahead of me. It's frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

To force the research of ALL tech, even if it's a turn or two, will slow tech booming. At least, I hope so!!

#1 I don't like it. So if every body is isolated, every body knows somebody anyway? nop
#2 I like it. This thing is really good. The only problem is that it could lead to a little exploit: I think you could buy 50% from one and 50% from another for trades. But if the Ai does it too, it is OK. Can you buy what you miss from your own reseasch?
#3 It already exists in civ3.
#4 Good. But 25% is a lot for this. Just a bonus. And more often than just advanced units. Pillaging ennemy lands, taking a city, trades, etc. everything that gives you a contact with another advanced civ is good.

Holding other civs cities should give you a chance to learn techs from them each turn for so many turns till it converts. A small chance, larger the larger the number of foreign population. Also larger chance if one of those techs city improvements is present when you take over the city.

I'd like it if difficulty level only represented how smart the AI is, not unreasonable cheap advantages and unreasonable AI. The AI should trade tech with you as freely as with other AI's and not require imbalanced trade (seems like the AI always wants more then it gets to do most trades in emperor mode, except for resource trading)

Also, does taking a enemy city destroy all its improvements? Every enemy city I take always is empty. This should not be the case, and selling off city improvements should take time.

I think Firaxis must improve map generation, to avoid some islands being left alone, with only one civ there. Almost all my games have a isolated civ - I don't like to play pangaea. In the same game, I can see a big continent/island without a civ, while a smaller continent having 3~4 civs. Ok, it's good for battles, but it should be balanced.

Holding other civs cities should give you a chance to learn techs from them each turn for so many turns till it converts. A small chance, larger the larger the number of foreign population. Also larger chance if one of those techs city improvements is present when you take over the city.
Nice idea. In SMAC there is an option to get a tech when you capture a city if the defeated nation is more advanced.

I'd like it if difficulty level only represented how smart the AI is, not unreasonable cheap advantages and unreasonable AI. The AI should trade tech with you as freely as with other AI's and not require imbalanced trade (seems like the AI always wants more then it gets to do most trades in emperor mode, except for resource trading)
Yes, I prefer an improved AI rather than a "cheater" AI. In Civ Editor you can see "AI to AI trade rate": harder level = more AI trades.

Also, does taking a enemy city destroy all its improvements? Every enemy city I take always is empty. This should not be the case, and selling off city improvements should take time.
No. All cultural buildings (except wonders, duh) are destroyed. All buildings which require a tech you don't have seems to destroyed too, I'm not sure in this case. You can take a city and see a factory, barracks and harbour, but you'll never see a temple or colosseum there. Yesterday I captured a city and it had an airport - airlifted tanks and got the remaining cities :D.

Nice ideas. One possible other solution:
When trading techs, you don't get it instantly (and can't trade it further in the same turn), but need to wait 1, 2 or 3 civs, according to the distance to the other civs capital.

mitsho

Something should be done about techtrading. There could atleast be an implementation penalty for a few turns for each traded tech.

Nice ideas. One possible other solution:
When trading techs, you don't get it instantly (and can't trade it further in the same turn), but need to wait 1, 2 or 3 civs, according to the distance to the other civs capital.This would actually make this problem worse, cause you won't be able to get back to tech race by buying a monopoly tech and sell it around for more techs.

I think the best solution to prevent out-tech is to out-research or out-gpt the AI. If you are unable to keep up in techs, the problem is in your skill level and not in the game.

This would actually make this problem worse, cause you won't be able to get back to tech race by buying a monopoly tech and sell it around for more techs.

I think the best solution to prevent out-tech is to out-research or out-gpt the AI. If you are unable to keep up in techs, the problem is in your skill level and not in the game.

When I speak of outtech I mean when you are so backward that other nations ahve no interest in trading with you. So there is no way to get yourself up to date, because other civs will continue trading while you'll struggle to find 1 little tech. If you can tech booming, you aren't out-tech, for sure.

This is not a problem at lower levels, but a pain in the neck at higher ones when CPUs get bonus in trading. A tech to costly for you to buy can almost be given to other nations.

And this can occur rather fast. Sometimes in 1 turn. :suicide: This means even if you check every turn other civs' tech, you can be outtech rather easily.

If you have something against that, tell me.

The other way is to slow down trading, so tech booming is not possible (which is the major reason CPU can out-tech you at higher levels).

@Pentium One of the key reasons, why the AI is so strong in higher levels, is the fact that they outtrade you. They trade with each other every tech they got for lower prices than they would with you. If they can't do this anymore, they won't be able to run away from you. Of course, this only affects civ3, but if they don't change the AI dramatically in civ4, it'll be the same.

--> to know how to solve this problem, it is needed to know how the AI works.

mitsho

not sure about the %'s but I like 2 and 4. Sounds good.

My frustration is playing a peaceful game, gifting the Greeks through an Age and a half and they still won't trade me their free tech for two or 3 more in the current Age.

Having scientists and people emmigrating to your fine cultural beacon or SSC could also improve the speed of research. I also think that if you are a little behind but a scientific civ or have a good science rate, that by reverse engineering while occupying a foreign city, science rate could improve