I think the russians and sovets should have seperate civilizations sence they differ so much from each other.

Yea, GREAT IDEA[/sarcasm]. Russia and the Soviet Union, are yes different, however, not by enough. Granted there were many other countries within the Soviet Union, then are actually within Russia today, however if you were to compare the old Russian Empire map, pre world war 1, and post world war 2 map of the Soviet Union, they are roughly the same.

So that would mean that we should have a Roman Empire and Italian faction, or an English Empire instead of English and Americans, or Imperial China and Communist China. Just because a people’s culture or ideology change does not mean that the people themselves change to such a degree that they should be considered different.

So that would mean that we should have a Roman Empire and Italian faction, or an English Empire instead of English and Americans, or Imperial China and Communist China. Just because a people’s culture or ideology change does not mean that the people themselves change to such a degree that they should be considered different.
I can vaguely understand why you might want Romans and Italians, but for god's sake this one makes no sense. The Soviet Union lasted only 74 years - it is not a distinct civilization! Not even their culture really changed - all that changed was the government. I can't see one good reason at all why these two should be seperate.

I voted for the second option because
Russia has been an Empire until the Great October Socialist Revolution!
And under Lenin and his associates Rule it became the USSR!

Imagine this:
You play with Russians, conquest the near-by countries and you become Russian empire. The people overthrow your rule (aka Revolution). you choose Communism or something like that and you get the USSR. Under your non-democratic rule, after the Cold War (well It would be great to create something like that in Civ4), some of your cities revolt and create separate states (not necessary defecting to another civ) and your civ becomes the Russia today.

So these two are almost identical on a 4000 - 2050 year basis :)

No, and there are two answers:

1) There would be simply no point in having both these civs in one game. What would the capital of Russia be? Moskva. k, and what would the capital of the UdSSR be? Moscow? Only for the city lists, it simply doesn't work.

2)Civ IV introduces leaders which is a very good thing. A civ that is often debated upon are the English. The question is wether they should be the English or the British. CivIV now gave the English/British a English (Queen Elizabeth I.) and a British leader (Queen Victoria). This is the solution for the Russians too: give them a Tsarist and a Communist leader! And I'm sure with an expansion they even could get a third leader. And maybe, the civ (city list for example) could also change regarding to the leader (under Tsar, we have St. Petersburg, under communist, we have Leningrad).

mfG m

this idea is so completely half baked i don't even know where to begin. lets save my effort and simply say that the soviet union was not essentially a different country from russia. the soviet union and its tyranny, as russia's historic tyranny, always has been a product of the character of the russian people. today they have a kleptocracy run by the mafia, and they foolishly vote against the non-corrupt Gorbachevs and for the corrupt Yeltsins and Putins. they have always been this way. Mark Twain warned against the tendencies of the russians long before the soviet union got started. And He died in 1910!

"For England must not fall: it would mean an inundation of Russian & German political degradations which would envelop the globe & steep it in a sort of Middle-Age night & slaverly which would last till Christ comes again -- which I hope he will not do; he made trouble enough before." -MT

god i love mark twain.

I guess you're right. Karaman has a good idea though.
I quote:
"Imagine this:You play with Russians, conquest the near-by countries and you become Russian empire. The people overthrow your rule (aka Revolution). you choose Communism or something like that and you get the USSR."

I think both options are kinda goofy.

I guess you're right. Karaman has a good idea though.
I quote:
"Imagine this:You play with Russians, conquest the near-by countries and you become Russian empire. The people overthrow your rule (aka Revolution). you choose Communism or something like that and you get the USSR."

The game is not about repeating history. It is about developing a civilization that stands the test of time. (Or something like that, I don't remember the exact quote in english ;) ) And that is why eventually you can win the game. (Nobody has won so far, in real life. No civ has sent a manned rockett to Alpha centaury :D)

Following your way of thinking,you choose Communism (now is civics, not governments, sorry) and you get the USSR, ok, and then? You get involved in the cold war and you loose, end of the game. When do we stop repeating history and when do we start playing the game?

Again, I have to agree with mitsho, You can't have two moskows, the same way you cannot have two romes, one for the romans and one for the italians (although this option is more reasonable that the russia/USSR)

bye.

This is just a silly idea. The USSR and Russia are almost identical. The only difference is that they have a different name and the government is called something different. This is like listing the admi9nistration of Roosovelt and of Abraham Lincoln as two different nations.

*sigh* This plan was half baked anyways

im obviously pro russian..but the soviet union was central to russia..and i consider it to be a dare i say "russian empire" of sorts. id have to say no.

How about the same for Germany?
We should have the Holy Roman Empire, Prussia, the German Reich (of Bismarck), the Republic of Weimar, the 3rd Reich, the Federal Republic, the Democratic Republic and...


That's just a bad idea, just like the Rome/Italy and the Ottoman/Turkey discussion. And 97% against this idea is very clear...


Perhaps, Civ4 should have an option that you can change your nation's name after a revolution.

Let's take the Germans as an example.
You start in Despotism as "The Germans". You change to Monarchy and you can choose a new name. Your people will stay "The Germans" and "German", but your nation will now be called "The Grand Empire of Germany" or something like that. That way everyone can name its nation as he/she wants without the need to create 7362 different civs...

I think it would be cool if there were a bunch of French civilizations too; you could have the kingdom of France, the First Republic, the First Empire, the Second Republic, the Second Empire, the Third Republic, Vichy France, the Fourth Republic and the Fifth Republic.
(sarcasm, by the way)

As I recall, Civ II had different "formal" names/titles both for different governments AND for different civs. The American "democratic" leader was called "President" -- but in England, he was called "Prime Minister", and in Germany, "Chancellor". Communist governments were called "People's Republic of..." -- so if you were Germany and went communist, your civ was then formally called "The People's Republic of Germany".

I wonder why this little bit of color fell by the wayside; I rather liked it.

I don't think that we should separate Russia and USSR. Russia was bigeast part of Soviet Union and had much richer heritage and culture. I would rather say that I'm Russian, than I'm from Soviet Union.

the capitol of the russian empire was st petersburg its ok napolean made the same mistake

Perhaps, Civ4 should have an option that you can change your nation's name after a revolution.

Let's take the Germans as an example.
You start in Despotism as "The Germans". You change to Monarchy and you can choose a new name. Your people will stay "The Germans" and "German", but your nation will now be called "The Grand Empire of Germany" or something like that. That way everyone can name its nation as he/she wants without the need to create 7362 different civs...

Thats a good idea, not as bad as mine

@poseidon_55 St. Petersburg was the capital during one part of history, but Russia actually evolved around Moscow. Regardless this is not the point. If St. Petersburg is the capital of Russia and Moskva the one of the Soviet Union, the second town would be St. Petersburg/Leningrad or Moskva and thus, they are the same again...

mfG mitsho

Did anyone else notice the Russian city lists changed between PTW and Conquests? In PTW they had the Soviet satellite citys like Kiev and Minsk, which were taken out with Conquests and replaced with Russian cities only.

They had that in CTP too. I think its because other Civs had to use those cities.