View Full Version : Changes to some annoying name errors, plus Canada civ


Wyz_sub10
Dec 18, 2001, 11:56 PM
Hi all. This is more of an edit than a mod.

To begin with, I made a pile of changes surrounding cities, leader names and tribes. Unfortunately, I didn't detail everything in a readme file, so let me highlight some changes.

Iroquois - all cities changed

The city name list was bogus. I thought it would be more appropriate to list cities as the tribes that comprise the Iroquis Confederacy. Of course there were only about 8 tribe names to use (i.e. Mohawk, Huron, Tobacco), so I expanded the list to include tribes from across North America. This is consistent, I think, with what Firaxis said they were doing with this Civ. The first 8 names are Iroquois tribes. The others are various regional nations (Blackfoot, Sioux, Cree, Pueblo, Navajo, etc.)

The Barbarian tribes have been changed accordingly.

Zulus - cities added, leaders added

Cetshwayo was listed under two different names. He has been moved to the first leader. I have added others from Zulu history.

Ondini is now the capital city (as it should be). This list was expanded drastically, as they are an *expansionist* civ, after all. The inclusion of Johannesberg, Benoni and Botshabelo give it some modern "feel".

Rome - leader changes

Maximus, a real but insignificant figure (used, I'm sure, due to Gladiator) has been replaced with Aurelius, also from Gladiator, but real and highly significant to Roman history.

Germany - cities added, leaders added

The cities list needed to be way longer, so here it is. It includes, BTW, a few Austrian cities (intentionally). I've added Rommel and Hitler to the leader list. Hitler is no doubt one of the most hated men in history, but if *that* were the criteria, we'd have short lists all around. There are some real butchers on these leader lists.

Russia - leader added

Donskoi, a defeater of the Mongols is included.

Japan - cities added, changed, leaders added

Tokyo and Edo are the same city. I kept the Tokyo name. I think Nagoya was the first capital under Tokugawa. I could be wrong. In any case, Kyoto remains here. Daigo, Sanjo and Takauij have been added as leaders.

France - added cities

Added a ton of cities to France.

New Civ - Canada replaces Persia.

Poor Persia. They're always the first to go in these mods, it seems.

Canada is industrious and scientific. (I was going to go Commercial, but kept industrious to maintain balance with Persia gone).

Prime Minister Trudeau is the leader and the unique unit is the Voyageur - an explorer unit with a 1 att and 1 def. Very, very good unit for exploring the map early on. Leaders include Gen. Isaac Brock and Billy Bishop, etc.

Full Civilopedia entries for Canada and the Voyageurs, but I could not get the pictures for these (or Trudeau) to work properly. I have included them here in any case.

I could fit the Voyageur in to the zip due to size. So to get that unit for Canada, make a copy of the Settler folder in Art/Units. Rename it Voyageur, and rename the settler.ini file within it to Voyageur.ini

Okay, let me know if you have any comments.

BTW...what does everyone think about adding scientists and artists to great leaders? It makes sense especially in light of finishing wonders.

UPDATED FILE:

I think I left the civilopedia entries out of the first one. This should have them.

Tranced
Dec 19, 2001, 12:44 AM
no offense to any canadian citizens out there, but why would canada be scientific? their nation as a whole has created very little as far as technology is concerned. the industrial part is also wrong, considering you dont read a lot of stuff that says: "Made In Canada" ;)

dannyevilcat
Dec 19, 2001, 01:46 AM
no offense to any canadian citizens out there, but why would canada be scientific?

Uh, oh... Do I sense another one of those U.S. vs. Canada debates? Hope not. Canada does contribute to science. What other attributes are fitting? Personally, I think Expansionist/scientific is more fitting (look at Canada's size).

Like the changes, I'll be sure to use many is my own personal mod. Thanks.

Wyz_sub10
Dec 19, 2001, 03:24 AM
Tancred,

I'm not going to wave any flags here, but scientific makes sense.

You need to pick two. I already stated why I went with Industrious over Commercial. Expansionist seems like a valid choice due to size, but Canada isn't "expansionist" in the same vein as it applies to Civ3.

Back to scientific...

Canadians have contributed their fair share of Nobel prize winners and breakthroughs - insulin and microwave communication technology are probably the best known two. But there have been plenty of contributions, mostly to chemistry and biology (relatively little to physics).

I wont harp on about tech stuff. You can do a little research starting with fiber optics and per capita LAN connections if you're *really* interested. :)

cheers.

sorry....almost forgot about industrious.

Because it's a big country with a small population and a rugged climate, you'd be surprised at how the infrastructure has had to adapt to meet needs. While the Trans-Canadian railroad is well known, few people know what an amazing engineering feat was accomplished when the Confederation Bridge was completed, or how much work was required to develop and maintain the massive hydro-electric network that supplies huge amounts of electricity to New York and Pennsylvania.

Not flag waving, just explaining my choices.

Qelebex
Dec 19, 2001, 06:49 AM
neither America nor Canada are realistic civs for this game. It is silly to start as the Canadians(?!!) at 4000BC. Canadians found wheel, writing,... bah! Same for Americans. They should have random faces in the population screen... :D

dannyevilcat
Dec 19, 2001, 10:57 AM
What's wrong with playing as your own country? Who made you so snobby that you need to snub a Canada mod? Of course we don't belong up there with China or England in terms of a civilization. Hell, we aren't even a civ, we're just a country. So what?

EL OSO
Dec 19, 2001, 12:57 PM
Is there any way to install this mod without overwriting the Persia civ with the Canada civ?

Wyz_sub10
Dec 19, 2001, 01:20 PM
If you want to scrap Canada to return to Persia, simply use the editor to rename to Persia, change the Civ-specific unit, and change the "build" and "government" preferences.

The Persia animations and Civilopedia entries are still there. You just need to rename the country and the pedia entry and Persia will be there again.

Wyz_sub10
Dec 19, 2001, 01:25 PM
Qelebex,

It's equally silly to start with Germany, England, Greece and almost every other civ in 4000 BC! Or have the Romans still kicking around in 2000 AD.

Even Egypt and China weren't "civs" in 4000 BC.

As cool as it would be to start with Jomon and Indus cultures, and have them "transmute" into Japan and India, that would require a lot of programming for what is essentially a cosmetic change.

FrosTi
Dec 19, 2001, 07:06 PM
Canada is not a civ it's a colony...

Wyz_sub10
Dec 19, 2001, 11:50 PM
blah blah blah

Et le Québec, c'est quoi d'abord? Continuez de rêver de la souveraineté.

Joyeux Nöel, petit Levesque.
:lol:

ajohn505
Dec 20, 2001, 02:21 AM
Ooh... I love it when you talk in French.

I love America, being American and all, but Canada rocks as well. Their responsible socialist capitalism (not quite Europe, not quite American) is what we're going to move to when we start to realize we're almost out of resources.

I'm torn though, because I have this 'Strange Brew' image in my head of the Canadian lower middle class.

Wolfshanze
Dec 20, 2001, 06:05 AM
Let's see what Canada is famous for:

Loverboy
Bob and Doug McKenzie
Celine Deon
Moose (what is the plural term for a moose?)

Hmmm...

Does that a Civ make?

You be the judge!

Special Unit: The Mountie?

P.S.
Egypt WAS a Civ in 4000BC, and the Iroquois are usually the first Civ to go in a mod, not Persia, simply because the Iroquois aren't a Civ at all, unless you consider thatch huts on the same scale as the Sistene Chapel or Forbiden Palace.

Canadria
Dec 20, 2001, 06:25 AM
because the Iroquois aren't a Civ at all, unless you consider thatch huts on the same scale as the Sistene Chapel or Forbiden Palace.

This is not a flame at you, but that comment is one of the most racists things I have ever heard.

It is common for European or European descendents to act like this. The Natives here had alot of art and culture. They didn't put the same kind of value on huge buildings and flashy art.

Alot of tribes didn't even believe in the kinds of technology that allowed the kind of building that you are talking about.

I'm not saying that they were the most advanced or the most viable civ, but you shouldn't dismiss them simply because they don't fall into your view of what a western civ is.

-Devon

PS: Please note again, I am not attempting to flame and if I come out sounding harsh it's because I know several native people and know alot about their beliefs and they have been getting trashed for hundreds of years.

Canadria
Dec 20, 2001, 06:39 AM
Let's see what Canada is famous for:

Loverboy
Bob and Doug McKenzie
Celine Deon
Moose (what is the plural term for a moose?)

Hmmm...

Does that a Civ make?


You forgot a few

vehicle air conditioners
CPR dummies
AC radio tubes
The Canadarm
Electric hand prosthesis
electron microscope
explosives vapour detector
green garbage bags
ginger ale
the goalie mask
first heart valve operation
ship based helicopter landing systems
IMAX
Insulin
basketball
kerosene
lacrosse
lightbulbs
tracer bullets
pablum
the pacemaker
the paint roller
rollerskates
snow blower
snow mobile
time zones
telephone
the washing machine
the zipper
acetylene
the automatic machinery lubricator
automatic postal sorter
Bone Marrow Compatibility Test
Electric Car Heater
Electric Streetcar
Film Colourization
Gramophone
Odometer
Plexiglas
Radio-Transmitted Voice
Screw Propeller
Tone-to-Pulse Converter
Undersea Telegraph Cable
UV-degradable Plastics
Variable Pitch Aircraft Propeller
Wireless Radio

This is just a partial list

Wolfshanze
Dec 20, 2001, 08:00 AM
Not at all... I was being rather tongue-in-cheek anyways...

As for the Iroquois, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I wasn't being "pro-western", if you read my entire quote, I mentioned one "western" item, and one VERY eastern item, the Forbiden Palace.

Simply put, when you have a game like Civ3 that talks about "stand the test of time" and when one thinks of great Civilizations, Iroquois, in anywhere in the world outside of a native american indian reserve is probably not topping anyone's list as a great civilization.

Considering the fact that "real" civilizations were put to the axe to try and FORCE a Civ in the game that really is just odd (the Iroquois) to simply be "politically correct" in covering all the bases... the simple fact of the matter is that there were no North American "civilizations"... tribes yes, but this is Civilization, not "Tribes".

Europe and Asia spawned some of the greatest Civilizations, and to another extent, Africa, Central and South America as well (Zulus, Egypt, Aztecs, Incas, Mayans, Toltecs, etc). Nothing really happened in North America as far as CIVILIZATION building until the Europeans arrived.

I'm not being racist, I'm being factual. Sorry if the North American Indians didn't build anything past tribal stage and thatched huts, and I'm not putting down anyone, I'm just stating the obvious. Did they have traditions and were a nice group of people... yes... did they build Civilizations that stand the test of time (like what has been the motto of the game series)... NO.

They include the Iroquois, but leave out the Mayans, the Incans, the Toltecs, a ton of Asian civs (Koreans, Mongols, Polynesians), and even several major European ones (Spain for one).

Sorry, but the Iroquois look more like more of Sid's sickening political correctness than actual common sense.

Risbinroch
Dec 20, 2001, 12:36 PM
I have to agree here, why couldent they just included more civs to choose from even though you still couldent choose more than 16...

I also have to agree, without reading the post (is it even here) that it's not racist to say that the Iroques hasn't had a "great civilization". Because that is the fact compared to a lot of civs not in the game.

I believe the natives of northern america should more correctly be replaced with the "barbarians" but only if it was correct and they also could build things etc. In such way that there were different tribes around all of northern america and even the world. Colonization did this quite well, allthough not good enough, as you werent able to control any of the tribes.

I also believe (I'm european and not american so I might not know all that much of american history) that there was an realy ancient civ called the moundbuilders in the midwest, before all the tribes. Was it more of a civilization that all the Apaches, Kiowas, Sioux etc.? An american would propably know better than I do.

Some great civilizations is missing in the game. Allthough I see the purpose of every continent being included, except for South America and Oceania... A lot of civilizations should have been included before the Iroquis, two of them american: Maya and Inca. But I think Firaxis should release a pack with 16 new civs wich didn't replace any of the old ones. If for instance playing only in an america map it would be great having, Inca, Maya, Iroquies and the Aztecs.

But the worst part about this is that it is too hard to add new civs without crashing the game... I would personally loved to have a loooong list of civs to chose from, so I could pick 16 different civs each time.

So it's not that bad that someone creates Canada, allthough I believe Persian civilization to be much more important througout history...

And it's great that you have added a lot of cities, I have done that too, cause originally in the game the civs had very few, a realy easy thing to do, so why didn't they include more city names?

Civs that should have been added in my opionion: Spain, Portugal, Inca, Mayan, Dutch, Viking, Carthagenes

Others that could have been included: More modern states...

What I believe should be in the game was uprising and cities declaring indepencene. That way "new civilizations" could be born. It could even be so that some civilizations split up and became different countries or even that the civ just changes name, like Rome becoming Italy after a while.

Tarquelne
Dec 20, 2001, 12:57 PM
Foolish to call Wolfshanze a racist. Sounds like he's more of a narrowminded cultural imperialist, actually, if we want to throw around buzzwords. I prefer "jerk", as it pretty much gets the point across without making any grandiose ideological claims.

Big buildings = civilization? Ha! That's almost exactly as bad as "White linen clothing = civilization" or "monotheism = civilization" or "centralized leadership = civilization"

Its fine to say that the Iraquois, to chose a group at random, had poor architechural achievements compared to other civilizations, but it's foolish to deny they had one.

Civilization, for all you poorly educated technological savages out there, is simply a relatively high level of cultural and technological cohesion and sophistcation. It's usually associated with writing and written records.... but that's more for practical reasons than ones of principle - It's difficult to track cultural cohesion without written records. You get any group of people who have a continuous and independent cultural identity for more than a few generations and you've got a civilization. Seem like an overly inclusive definetion? Tough. "Civilization" is most definetly NOT a scholarly term for "They built frik'in huge stone buildings."


Look, Wolfzie - Civ is a game of "what if", if you really want to try to pretend its an historical simulation. If we're playing "What if the Germans got organized as a culture back in 4000 BC and ended up ruling the world.... why not the Iraquios, or, more to the point _some_ north american people? I'd rather ditch America (the least-ancient of the "civs" in Civ3) and put in, oh, say, the Incas. That'd give us 3 "what if they ended up ruling the world" possibilities for the western hemisphere.

As far as standing the test of time.... they we should ditch.... well, every civ but China and India, and maybe Japan, Germany and Greece. All the other civs are either too young or well, didn't pass the test.

Judge Dredd
Dec 20, 2001, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Wolfshanze
Let's see what Canada is famous for:

Loverboy
Bob and Doug McKenzie
Celine Deon
Moose (what is the plural term for a moose?)



Meese? Moosi? Mooseys? I think it is just Moose, though.

Wyz_sub10
Dec 20, 2001, 07:56 PM
Okay, but the Canada civ aside, I still made a lot of other changes, after all. Any thoughts on those???

BTW Wolfshanz, Egypt was not a civ in 4,000 BC in the snes we are discussing here.

There was a Pharoanic culture in 4000 BC, but not the same "civ" as Cleopatra's Egypt.

The point I was making is that *no* civ has been continuous since 4000 BC, so it's no fair to say that America is less "worthy" of inclusion because of their late rise.

Shuang
Dec 20, 2001, 10:26 PM
If I come off racist here I’m not going to apologize because this is my opinion and I have a right to it. But anyway if we want to compare how legitimate the choices for Civs are I just have one point to make about the Iroquois. Most westerners associate culture with an ability to make frikin’ huge buildings I do think this is a very common misconception culture isn’t measured in how tall your structures are but in my opinion how you present yourself to future generations. Having little or no written language we today can’t judge the Native Americans against many European civilizations. The winners write the history and writing none themselves we conclude the Native Americans are the losers. The truth isn’t politically correct.

GenghisVick
Dec 20, 2001, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by dannyevilcat


Uh, oh... Do I sense another one of those U.S. vs. Canada debates? Hope not. Canada does contribute to science. What other attributes are fitting? Personally, I think Expansionist/scientific is more fitting (look at Canada's size).

Like the changes, I'll be sure to use many is my own personal mod. Thanks.

Canada is a large country but I would hardly consider them expansioist! Most of their land is tundra!!! I really don't see why anyone would want to include Canada other then the national pride reason.

Wyz_sub10
Dec 20, 2001, 11:41 PM
You're right - just for the national pride reason.

I'm surprised that so many people pounce when someone introduces a new civ. What's the big deal? I'm sure someone playing in Malaysia wants to introduce a Malaysian civilization. If it helps them enjoy the game, more power to them.

I made civs and unique units for Spain, Vikings, Mongols, Arabs, Incas and Canada, but only included the Canada made here because 1) adding new civs does not work properly and I didn't want to replace a whole batch of civs, and 2) file size limitations.

Anyway, it's a little pathetic to see people up in arms over home country mods.

Canadria
Dec 21, 2001, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Wolfshanze
Not at all... I was being rather tongue-in-cheek anyways...


I'm glad. :goodjob:


As to the rest, I agree that there are alot more Civs that would be better suited for the game, that being said I think that having the Iroquois is a good idea, although it should have been called something different. 6 Nations or 1st Nations would be a much more appropriate name. I say it was a good idea because there are civs representing all areas of the world old and new. Withought anything from Old North America, it would be lacking.

As to their culture, they were more culturally and artisticly diverse and advanced than the so called "advanced" people that conquered them.

There is a huge difference in my mind between someone who builds huge building and someone who cares about the people in their civ. The natives didn't see a need to advance past where they were. That was a choice.

brrrrrett
Dec 21, 2001, 08:00 AM
Okay so the Iroquois were still running around in buckskin and firing bows and arrows at well drilled troops with rifles in the 19th Century but the whole wondorus beauty of all the Civ games is that no history is absolute and nothing is yet written. Maybe if the Iroquois had YOU as their leader things would have been different and it would have been the Iroquois crossing the Atlantic in ironclad to pound the docks at Plymouth. Each Civilization certainly had the potential to rule the world when their first tribe put up camp. Even the English, the Chinese and other acknowledged greats once lived in holes in the ground and banged rocks together for fun. And as we all know only too well, what is better in Civ than the warm lucious feeling one gets when a heavy lumbering modern armour unit does mortal combat with an eager sweaty spear man. Mmmm.... carnage!

dannyevilcat
Dec 21, 2001, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by GenghisVick


Canada is a large country but I would hardly consider them expansioist! Most of their land is tundra!!! I really don't see why anyone would want to include Canada other then the national pride reason.

Of course that's the reason. I love my country, but it has no natural business being a "civilization" along with Egypt or Rome.
Expansionist still stands for me though. Look at Russia... also vast amounts of tundra (although Canada is NOT mostly tundra.)Yes, expansionist ability simulates population growth too, which isn't totally fitting for Canada, but the scout is a good surrogate for european explorers.

Shuang
Dec 21, 2001, 11:23 AM
The natives didn't see a need to advance past where they were. That was a choice.

What are you talking about? Where you there? Where you an Native American? of course they wanted to exand technologically thats why when Europeans came here they traded for guns. and saying they were more cultually advanced thats a laugh take a trip to the Vatican and then compaire culture. I bet you cant name one natvie american art peice. Dont portray people as something if you have no proof to back it up.

Wyz_sub10
Dec 21, 2001, 12:05 PM
I think the prevailing theory is that there was no stimulation for advancement in the Americas as there was in Europe.

There is a "pinwheel" theory of technology that says that a culture acquires 9 things from other cultures for every 1 thing it produces itslelf. This was certainly true for European cultures. Add to that a social and political environment promoting competition and new ideas, plus neighbouring countries creating a new for defence, and it's not hard to see why technology advanced as it did in Europe.

One need look no further than the late Ming dynasty in China to see what happens when a country stops interacting with other nations.

That's basically the position the Americas were in. The Eurpeans had a huge head start with better opportunities for agriculture and domestication.

Giorgicus
Dec 21, 2001, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Wolfshanze
I'm not being racist, I'm being factual. Sorry if the North American Indians didn't build anything past tribal stage and thatched huts, and I'm not putting down anyone, I'm just stating the obvious. Did they have traditions and were a nice group of people... yes... did they build Civilizations that stand the test of time (like what has been the motto of the game series)... NO.

Tarquelne essentially made this point already, but Civ is a game of "might have been." You get to make the choices that give a Civ its alternate history.

Using your criteria, many of the Civs (e.g., the Egyptians) should not be included because they did not "stand the test of time."

muppet
Dec 26, 2001, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by Giorgicus

Using your criteria, many of the Civs (e.g., the Egyptians) should not be included because they did not "stand the test of time."

:goodjob: :goodjob:

Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary:
Main Entry: civ·i·li·za·tion
Pronunciation: "si-v&-l&-'zA-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 1772
1 a : a relatively high level of cultural and technological development; specifically : the stage of cultural development at which writing and the keeping of written records is attained
b : the culture characteristic of a particular time or place.

IMHO, the "anti-anyone else" community should maybe brush up on their english. Check out a dictionary or two when they have time.

Canadria: Impressive! Where did you find that list?

The rest of you: Why should Canada, USA, or any other "modern" nation meet a more stringent criteria of "civilization" than that which is applied to older nations?

What do they write in European history books anyways? A bunch of barbarians from somewhere called North America saved us? They are NOT a civilization I tell you! They were barbarians that saved our glorious civilization! Uh huh... Tell me more please.

PS. someone teach me how to install a mod. I'm as close to computer-illiterate as it gets, and I'm a little curious about this Canadian mod pack.

:frog:

muppet
Dec 26, 2001, 06:36 AM
Originally posted by Shuang


What are you talking about? Where you there? Where you an Native American? of course they wanted to exand technologically thats why when Europeans came here they traded for guns. and saying they were more cultually advanced thats a laugh take a trip to the Vatican and then compaire culture. I bet you cant name one natvie american art peice. Dont portray people as something if you have no proof to back it up.

I would like to say the same thing to you, but do not want to damage my credibility.

A quote from Native American Religions by Arlene Hirschfelder and Paulette Molin (Facts on File, New York, 1992, ISBN 0-8160-2017-5) is instructive:

".....the North American public remains ignorant about Native American religions. And this, despite the fact that hundreds of books and articles have been published by anthropologists, religionists and others about native beliefs......Little of this scholarly literature has found its way into popular books about Native American religion..."
Yet Natives culture and religion should be valued. They have made many contributions to North American society:

an awareness of concern for the environment
food staples such as corn, beans, squash, potatoes and sweet potatoes
the design of the kayak, toboggan and snowshoe
the original oral contraceptive
cotton
over 200 drugs, derived from native remedies

It is ironic that the wine that is the Christians' most sacred substance, used in the Mass to represent the blood of their God, has caused such a trail of devastation within Native populations. And the Natives' most sacred substance, tobacco, has caused major health problems for so many Christians.

Of course, you would have to read the entire contents to get a real understanding of how grand North American culture was before we destroyed their civilization.

Wyz_sub10
Dec 26, 2001, 12:41 PM
muppet,

To install, unzip the files to a temp directory. Copy the civ3mod.bic into the main Civ3 directory (it will overwrite the existing one).

Then copy the two .txt files into the the Text folder. (I might have left them out of the zip, dammit...here's a new zip)

I could not fit the unique unit into the zip file. So to get the unique unit:

- Go to the Art/Units folder in Civ3.
- make a **copy** of the 'Settler' folder and name the copy 'Voyageur'
- in that new folder, leave everything the same except rename settler.ini to voyageur.ini

As for the pcx files, I cannot get them to work properly, so you may as well not worry about them (the game will use defaults). (FYI - they go in the Civilopedia/Icons folder)

Wyz_sub10
Dec 26, 2001, 12:45 PM
I have update the Canada/name mod with the civilopedia entries that I might have omitted from the first version.

The updated post is found above this one, or at the beginning of the thread.

Also, check out Apolyton for the new civ city/leader name list being done by darkangel and myself. (new cities and leader names for the original civs in the game)

happybudda
Dec 26, 2001, 08:04 PM
Here's some food for thought. What about the Polynesian peoples? They are most definitly the most ancient "civilization". While they did not contain the most orginization, they were definitly very advanced when they made their move. I'd love to a see a Polynesian mod. I probably won't go to this board anymore, so any questions or insults you toss my way will most likely go unheard.

Wyz_sub10
Dec 27, 2001, 01:07 AM
?????

Why would you assume people will insult you? In a poll on what 10 new civs would you like to see added I asked for an Australoasian civ (polynesian/melanesian).

I think such a mod would be a good idea (with a marine specialty unit - perhaps an ocean going trieme).

the_chip_monk
Dec 27, 2001, 11:43 AM
Guys, regarding the Iroquois civ debate... consider a different criterion.

The question is not "Was this a great civilization to stand the test of time". The question is "Does playing this Civ make for a good piece of alternative history?" By that metric, clearly the North American First Nations, as represented by the Iroquois, clearly qualify.

Regarding the Canadians civ, well, realize that America is really a recent extension of the English civilization... so really, it's a Home Country Civ. Same as Canada, Malaysia, or Lebanon... but as a large country there's a lot more people intrested in playing it, so it goes in the original game. For me, conquering the world with rampaging legions of Mounties is fun, if utterly unrealistic (one of Canada's defining qualities is that we have zero interest in ruling the world or indeed _anybody_ else, so even if we were to somehow in a position to enter on such an enterprise, we would no longer be the country I love).

-Phil

macross
Dec 27, 2001, 06:33 PM
In Civ3, you start out with one lonely settler and not with a fully developed civ. That settler finds a small village, and through the passing of time, forms a civ. So in that since Egypt, China, and India are all civ that started around 4000bc.

unknown
Dec 30, 2001, 12:27 AM
First of all, as said before, America is simply in the game to please the large American market. Maybe the game developers thought the American population would purchase or enjoy the game more?
Who knows? Who cares? If you want a game that will perfectly dictate history then look else where, it's a stratagy game not a simluation.

Second, so why can't Canada be in the game? Cause some of you uneducated people out there think we Canadians still live in icegloos and hunt for our food? People who are unware of Canada's accomplish can do nothing but trash on them? Look back some posts and you'll see a long list of Canada's achievement... we're not just about ice and fishing.

Either way... I don't consider Canada much of a great civ in the sense of huge buildings and whatnot... but hey.. I'd enjoy the animated mounties take over the world hehe... but my FINAL point is that --- IT'S A GAME.. enjoy it... THE DEVELOPERS ARENT HISTORIANS... It's for fun... people arent meant to be educated with this software... they arent suppose to really learn about culture. So stop pounding on the historic errors... I'd be more instersting in fixing the gameplay bugs.

;)

Canadria
Dec 30, 2001, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Shuang


What are you talking about? Where you there? Where you an Native American? of course they wanted to exand technologically thats why when Europeans came here they traded for guns. and saying they were more cultually advanced thats a laugh take a trip to the Vatican and then compaire culture. I bet you cant name one natvie american art peice. Dont portray people as something if you have no proof to back it up.

Was I there? By that logic no civilization in the game belongs because none of us were here more than 100 years ago so we can't quite be sure.

Interesting point you have made... Europeans came here and traded for guns. First off, FEW tribes traded for gones and there were no trades on a national level. Additionally, not all Europeans traded for guns. How many swiss people came over here to trade for guns. Since you may make sweeping generalizations without logic so will I.
The people of Malta didn't come here and trade for guns.. Therefore no European came and traded for guns.

and saying they were more cultually advanced thats a laugh take a trip to the Vatican and then compaire culture. I bet you cant name one natvie american art peice.

This is my favourite... All right here is a list from my personal Knowledge.....

Like the totem pole I can see out my window.....
How many people are there that have dream catchers.....
The Salish Long Boats.......
Coastal Long Houses...
The collection of pottery I have
The thousands of painting I have seen in people homes or businesses
Wooden statuettes..
Jewelry...

This is some

Dont portray people as something if you have no proof to back it up. [/B]

Name me a piece of art from the Zulus or the Aztecs or the Persians or the Russians or the Babylonians or the Romans.

Just because you are uneducated, don't assume the rest of us are. I also find it interesting that artisticly, the Aztec style of art was very similar the Six Nations, yet you don't debate them belonging.

Sounds like another product of the Revisionist History taught by the American public education system.

Canadria
Dec 30, 2001, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by Wyz_sub10
?????

Why would you assume people will insult you? In a poll on what 10 new civs would you like to see added I asked for an Australoasian civ (polynesian/melanesian).

I think such a mod would be a good idea (with a marine specialty unit - perhaps an ocean going trieme).

I personally would love to add all possible civs. I fugure the more choice, the better the varied game will be...

Bring them on.....
:)

Wyz_sub10
Dec 30, 2001, 01:21 PM
When (if) the editor is ever changed to allow the addition of Civs, you will see a lot more interest in modpacks, I think.

I've done civ mods for Canada, Spain, the Vikings and Mongols, but I don't want to replace the current civs.

I guess we'll just have to wait.

lbores
Dec 31, 2001, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Wyz_sub10
...
Russia - leader added

Donskoi, a defeater of the Mongols is included.
...


Donskoi means 'people of the Don' and refers specifically to the Don Cossacks. Who may or may not have kicked Mongol bootie; it's not a person's name.

Borels
Jan 01, 2002, 09:21 AM
To reply a message earlier on, Canada did have contribution in Physics too. Prof. Ernest Rutherford discovered atoms have a core of neutrons & protons surrounded by outer shells of electrons when he was teaching at McGill University.

Wyz_sub10
Jan 01, 2002, 01:31 PM
Ibores,

Dmitri Donskoi was grand duke of Moscow (1359-89). He successfully resisted Lithuanian attempts to invade Moscow, and was the first Russian prince since the Mongol conquest who dared to wage open war on the Tatars.

Just to add...Civ3 uses one name for the leaders. I figured Donskoi would be better than Dmitir for identifying him to most people.

Kefka
Jan 17, 2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Canadria


You forgot a few

vehicle air conditioners
CPR dummies
AC radio tubes
The Canadarm
Electric hand prosthesis
electron microscope
explosives vapour detector
green garbage bags
ginger ale
the goalie mask
first heart valve operation
ship based helicopter landing systems
IMAX
Insulin
basketball
kerosene
lacrosse
lightbulbs
tracer bullets
pablum
the pacemaker
the paint roller
rollerskates
snow blower
snow mobile
time zones
telephone
the washing machine
the zipper
acetylene
the automatic machinery lubricator
automatic postal sorter
Bone Marrow Compatibility Test
Electric Car Heater
Electric Streetcar
Film Colourization
Gramophone
Odometer
Plexiglas
Radio-Transmitted Voice
Screw Propeller
Tone-to-Pulse Converter
Undersea Telegraph Cable
UV-degradable Plastics
Variable Pitch Aircraft Propeller
Wireless Radio

This is just a partial list

just a note he said "famus for" not things created of Invented in Canada.
I mean when I perform CPR on those CPR dummies I don't think of Canada.

Wyz_sub10
Jan 17, 2002, 07:04 PM
Just because you don't know where something was invented, doesn't mean that invention is less important. I don't think of where the automobile was invented when I drive my car. So what?

By your logic, Civ3 should be filled with stereotypes because that's what people associate with nationalities.

Sunfirey2k
Jan 29, 2002, 07:08 AM
It's funny you know when you think about it, When ever Canada comes up on some forum people(and it's usually Americains, no NOT ALL Americains, I know many and they don't feel this way, it's usually some southern hick who has just come out from hiding under a rock) always jump in and talk as if Canada is some poor, under developed, 3rd world, untechnolocial, disadvantaged, brain dead, untalented, vast waste land of a country. BUT Guess What? Life Exists here! OH MY GOD WHAT A SHOCK for some of you!

Canada (along with EVERY OTHER COUNTRY) has a right to be in this game, this landmass did exists 4,000 years ago (as did every other one in the game), so Canada was not it's name then, BIG DEAL! Neither was America. It's a game and a game at that, what if I wanted to add the Untied Igloo's of Zooblovia as a country, OH NO perish that thought.


So flame me now (not to much I don't want my igloo to melt, it's having a hard enough time in this 55'F weather). Now if I may return to hearding the moose, collecting the maple syrup, I've got to get moving so I can get down and watch the Geese battle the Ducks on the pond!


I AM CANADIAN (duh if you had not figured that out yet).

SE-sPOON
Jan 29, 2002, 07:22 AM
Canada rules ! :scan:

and no I'm not Canadian.. :)

Lt_Tarantulas
Jan 29, 2002, 09:44 AM
ok ppl...

I saw some good argument and some very stupid one on this topic....

I mean geez.... ppl want there home country in it of course, thats WHY it allow you to change the name of it when u start a new game, did anyone realize that little point?

Whats wrong with that? absoluctly nothing.

We all know america and alot of other 'civ' are there JUST so the game will sell CUZ ppl want they're home country in it

People dont want to play as the uhhjakalus who were around back then, They want to play as themself, have a link to they're life.

Note, to the guy who said canada is a COLONY, guess what bob? so are the United State Of America! and about half the country on this planet nearly. so your point is......?


This is a game ppl, and like all game it allow who to choose your name, or character class or such, its called customization.

Seat back, take whatever name of civ suits your mood, modify the game as you want to your liking, and ENJOY it.


Personaly I am very happy someone did this mods, for I always wondered why on earth are the US in it but not Canada.

Stop ******** at other ppl mods cuz YOUR liking dont fit them, if you dont like it, DONT download it.

Simple as that.


Btw Canadria forgot alot of stuff in her/his list of things... theres more I could name, but thats not necesary is it..
he/she did say it was a partial list. :goodjob:

SpiderMcFly
Jan 29, 2002, 01:10 PM
I must admit I have not read all of the posts in this thread (because I started to get annoyed), but I must protest when people say that Canada is not "worthy" of consideration as a civilization. PUH-LEASE! Like the U.S., we were a colony of Britain, but rather than dumping tea in the harbor and losing countless lives to revolutionary war, we chose to work with Britain and eventually gain our independance peacefully, to the benefit of all (and a more civilized approach).

TO respond to accusations that Canada has not produced/invented anything, I am attaching a file of major Canadian inventions (including the light bulb) and I will remind you all that if you are in North America and sitting at a desk while you insult Canada - we supply 90% of the lumber imported into the U.S.

'Nuff said.

Sobieski
Jan 29, 2002, 04:53 PM
I find it funny how Americans expect everybody to learn about their country, but don't know a lick about anybody else. Canada is set over a VAST area of land, with a relatively small population considering its size. Whenever Canada needs to build a mine, or connect two cities with road or rail, it is a 5 or 6 times the undertaking of any other place, and considering how urbanized it is, Canada is without doubt an industrious country. And when it comes to science, the only group of people on Earth that I can think of, that have done more scientifically PER CAPITA than Canada are the Jews.

Sobieski
Jan 29, 2002, 04:54 PM
Don't forget, the first game of baseball, ("America's Game") was played in Ontario, Canada.

Sobieski
Jan 29, 2002, 05:15 PM
People are debating about who is civilized, and who is not, yet they don't even seem to REALLY even know what civilization is. Civilization means the act of building cities and agriculture. Therefore the counterpart to civilization is hunting/gathering. Calling most North American tribes uncivilized isn't calling them barbaric or stupid, it is just saying that they did not participate in the act of building cities (they did have agriculture). People shouldn't get so offended when people call them uncivilized, because by the definition of the word, most were uncivilized. When it comes to intelligence, it has been proven that it built much more intelligence hunting and gathering (more problem solving), than EARLY agriculture (monotonous labour), and hunting and gathering often lead to a longer lifespan than early farming.

Civilized DOES NOT = good or smart

Uncivilized DOES NOT = bad/barbaric or unintelligent

In fact war is a by-product of civilization, because before farming, tribes would not fight as much, because rather than defending land, they could move to another area if challenged by a more powerful opponent, where as farmers had to protect their land from intruders. At first this was on a small scale, but after a while farmers began to band together into nations and fight on a bigger scale.

Most of the Iroquois tribes were uncivilized in the description I gave for civilization, but this by no means is saying that they were less intelligent than anybody else, because farming and civilization is a conscieous choice which they did not usually make.

At best some of the tribes would be partially civilized because they meet one of two civilization criteria (farming but not cities)

If you do not agree with this definition think of it this way. The word civilization comes from the word civil. The word civil comes from, a latin word civilis, which means city-dweller. Sorry if my post was a bit long winded.

Sobieski
Jan 29, 2002, 05:30 PM
Sorry about all the posts, but one more thing. Canada's special unit should be the blue hats (I think that's what they are called). They should be infantry units with a plus one on defence, and if it is possibe, they should have the privateer ability (I don't know if you can give that to land units). This could represent its UN peacekeeping missions, where it can put itself between fighting forces without actually being at war with them.

Canadria
Jan 30, 2002, 12:30 AM
Hey, Sunfirey is even from the same Canadian igloo gathering I am.

It can't be called more than a gathering, we're obviously not civilized enough to make cities.

Sunfirey2k
Jan 30, 2002, 07:37 AM
I live over by the trading post where they hurd the wild moose before they milk them, it's rather empty in this part of the (can I even call it) villiage.

On the bright side we're getting new material to repair the damage to the igloos from the global warming that we get from detroit, that near 60'F day almost cost us the capital of the villiage (poor Big Furry Bear, he's had a ruff time as head of the igloos). Good thing we did that snow dance last night (it was a close call)

drywall
Feb 01, 2002, 05:09 AM
The list of Canadian achievements is impressive, however there is one on the list that is incorrect. Or, at least, only partially.

The telephone.

Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone.

Read a Canadian encyclopedia and it will tell you that Alexander Graham Bell, Canadian, invented the telephone. (They'll even include the date he became a Canadian citizen). And, in a way, they are correct. But not completely.

Read an American encyclopedia, and it will tell you that Alexander Graham Bell, American, invented the telephone. (They'll even include the date he became an American citizen) And in a way, they are correct also. But not completely either.

Alexander Graham Bell began a Canadian life in 1870. He then moved to the United States of America shortly after, in 1871. Simultaneously, he kept a home in Baddeck, on Cape Breton Island, in Nova Scotia, Canada, where he spent many months of the year. At the same time, he kept residence in Boston, Massachusetts, in the U. S. of A.

Both countries readily accepted his status as a citizen. (Some American sources were fair enough to only recognize him as a 'naturalized' citizen). While both countries were (and still are) eager to call a man of such great achievement their own, if the man were around today, you could ask him himself and he'd probably reply:

"Scottish. Born and raised."

Alexander Graham Bell was born on March 3, 1847, in Edinburgh, Scotland.

(He died on August 2, 1922, at Baddeck, Nova Scotia, Canada.)

A Scottish born man doing most of his telephone research in Boston is hardly a 'purely Canadian' achievement. Sorry, Canada.(However, Canadians, know this: most of his aeronautics research was done in Canada.)

Sorry to open up this can of worms, seeing as this is one of those debates that's been going for many years between the Yanks and the Canucks, and both sides are fairly clouded with a healthy nationalist point of view. Neither right, neither wrong.

animepornstar
Feb 01, 2002, 08:22 AM
found another incorrect in the list. the screw propeller was invented by the swede john ericsson.

tpasmall
Feb 01, 2002, 03:01 PM
New Great Wonder idea- Stanley Cup
If anything it should count as a second capital (third if you have the Forbidden Palace).
And on the note of civs not in the game, what happened to the Carthaginians, they were the best civ in civ2. Personally, im thinking of replacing india with them, considering the special unit would be the same.

Lt_Tarantulas
Feb 01, 2002, 03:22 PM
lol

yeah, the stanley cup as a great wonder.... boost morale in all your city +2 happy citizen

require 6 arena (lets jsut replace a building with an arena.. any ideas what?)


that the spider cent on it .....comign from the town who as won 24 stanley cup :)

Wyccabilly
Feb 01, 2002, 09:37 PM
I think scientific and industrious is actually more accurate than any other potential combination. Due to proximity, language, religion, etc. the U.S. and Canada have almost always functioned quite cooperatively rivalry or no. A good deal of scientific and industrial power that we think of as "American" is often part or wholly Canadian. Beyond national pride on both sides, and the usualy regional flavor, very little separates America and Canada. British Columbians are no more different from New Yorkers than New Yorkers are to Arkansas rednecks.

Sobieski
Feb 02, 2002, 11:35 AM
Um....Tarantulas, dont you think the Coloseum would be a good one to replace with an arena?

Lt_Tarantulas
Feb 02, 2002, 03:26 PM
hmm... would work... but that would give it too earlie in the game.... maybe the police station would work better.. more of a 'modern' tech

Sobieski
Feb 03, 2002, 11:25 AM
Ya I guess you are right. The police would be the best.

Anglophile
Feb 03, 2002, 12:41 PM
I wondered how this thread stayed active so long - this may be the most controversial Canada has ever been in anything. Wherever I am living in the world, I will always be at heart a Montrealer and a Canadian - and wherever I have lived (four other countries) or travelled (most everywhere), being a Canadian was just fine with the locals. If any country in the world can be considered to be civilized, it is Canada and that is widely recognized all over the world.

Nevertheless, arguments based on being around 6000 years ago are valid - but if you limit civs to existing now and 6000 years ago - you have eliminated almost eveyone (what maybe Babylon, Egypt and China?), not much of a game.

As for the Iroquois, they as shorthand for N.A. natives are just as valid as the Aztecs, Incans or Mayans - none of whom meet our Western Eurpean based definition of civilizations (scientific, technological and industrial) so all are either equally valid or invalid - and lets face it, if we use the Eurocentric definition and longevity requirements, there aren't any valid civilizations at all - makes for a short and unsatisfying gaming experience. So play whoever you like and mod whatever new civilizations you want, they are all equally invalid. It's a game - enjoy it.

Richelieu
Feb 06, 2002, 08:41 AM
What i like the most about this game is that i can create a civilisation from scratch, using the tribe or nation that i choose, whether or not it was around back in 4000 or 6000 BC. (And, as has been noted here, the vast majority of them weren't).

This is a game. We are creating Civilizations. If you want to eliminate any civ as a starting option for historical reasons, you have to eliminate all of them, except for the few who were there at that time.

This is a game. Fantasy. For one afternoon i can fantasize that the Babylonians haven't gone into oblivion. That China is the first nation to reach the stars. That the Iroquois have built the Great Wall. That Canada was completely annihilated back in 2800 BC by the Zulus... but that because of it's culture it conquered the whole world the very next week.

And in all cases, with good'ol' Richelieu at the helm. :king:

possum
Feb 07, 2002, 05:12 PM
First of all, the plural form of a moose, is moose... there are three moose standing there...

Second, I believe that the Telephone was patented (I cant back this up, but I read it somewhere..) in the town of Brantford, Ontario, Canada. And If you go to Brantford, there is a good sized museum on the telephone and such..

Third, yes, Baseball was first played in Canada.. The town of Beachville actually.

Basketball.. Basketball was first played in Canada too, (some university or something on the east coast area) and was played useing a peach basket.

thats about it I guess

Anglophile
Feb 08, 2002, 10:11 AM
For the record, the first game of North American football was played between my alma mater, McGill, and Harvard in the early 1870's, which gives us a 50% claim on that sport as well. I was at the 100th anniversary of that game at McGill sometime during my college career. I am unable to narrow the date done more precisely due to my seminal research in the Chemistry Dept. on amber fluids containing short chain hydroxyl derivatives of alkanes. Beer that is; real beer, not the slop brewed in billion gallon lots by Anheiser Busch.

CrazyCanuck
Feb 14, 2002, 12:51 PM
Hey, being Canadian I will enjoy trying out this mod!

One suggestion: although it would come later in the game, how about an Avro Arrow UU that would be better than the F-15 and available sooner? Just a thought, if you can maki it, let me know!

Go Canada!

Schee
Feb 18, 2002, 06:15 AM
Some French cities are misspellt :

Orleans -> Orléans
Lyons -> Lyon
Rheims -> Reims
Marseille -> Marseille
Besancon -> Besançon

And Napoleon is Napoléon

http://www.portal5.co.uk/graphics/anigifs/flag_fr.gif :love:

(Ca fait vraiment bizarre de voir ces villes écrites comme ça...)

Shastram
Feb 18, 2002, 05:45 PM
First time i read this thread... one type of question I notice all the timeis what is considered a civlization? But I dont think it belongs in this thread. Everybody has their own SCHOLAR opinions aobut it (that is if they have any education at all).

I just have to say one thing. I love Canada. I love Montreal. I am Indian (from India) originally, but Canada really is one of the best places I have ever seen, ESPECIALLY MOntreal. People are so nice here... For all those doubting Canada's abilities as a scientific and industrious nation, please read up before you talk, know before you say anything against anybody based out of your own damn sterotypes.

I think all civs belong in CIV 3.. I was disappointed to see that they included only 16 of them. We should have had more.. CTP2 (i know a lot of ppldont like CTP or CTP2) had 32 CIVs in it.. (I never played CTP2 personally).

We should be given a chance to be anybody, represent any country or civilization cause after all, when it all comes down to, its a game.. a fantasy.. that you live in while you play.. controlling a CIVILIZATION... all these RTS, turn based or simulation games, thats what they are all about.. getting the player lost in a fantasy world of his own.. right? We love to escape reality, thats why we watch TV and we play video-games.. and if the game was all about Historical simulation to the last dot, well then we would have trouble.. dont u guys think?? Besides, it will be very hard to represent history, the era around 4000-5000 BC is hotly debated as to what kind of civs actually existed back then.. history talks based on bias..

anyhow.. good job for making the mod :) i'll take some of your changes and put it in my game for SURE! :)

Thanks Dude


Shastram
P.S. Canada is a GREAT NATION.

Sobieski
Feb 19, 2002, 12:53 PM
I could not have said it better Shastram

purplexus
Feb 21, 2002, 04:14 AM
STAY TUNED!!!!
under construction----->>>North West Mounted Police UNIT (animated) (sounds)(Offensive ATT 1 Defence ATT 2 Movement 2) (Upgrades to a RNWMP)
Under Construction---->>>Royal North West Mounted Police Unit (animated) (sounds)(offensive ATT 2 Defencive Att 4 Movement 2)(Upgrades to a Mountie)
Under Construction---->>>Mountie Unit (animated) (sounds)(Offensive ATT 4 Defensive ATT 8 Movement 2) (Upgrades to a RCMP)
Under Construction---->>>Royal Canadian Mounted Police Unit (animated) (sounds) (offensive ATT 8 Defensive ATT 16 Movement 3)

Here is a Sample of what the Mountie should look like!!!!

purplexus
Feb 21, 2002, 04:24 AM
The Following is what i had i mind for the units.. These units would all have the same requirement as the Horseman-->Knights-->Calvary and Mech Inf. The Canadian Civ would have these units Exclusive but would not be able to build the others.. Notice the Higher Def. to the Off as compared to the Horseman knights etc etc. A defensive Unit that Can Get Around would be nice..
Since I like to play Civ with the Culture Theme these are nice units for myself and carry a lot more weight with the defending cities as opposed to attacking them.

The graphics for the RCMP will be Quite a bit Different then those of the NWMP-->RNWMP-->Mounites Units(prolly leaving these all the same) as the RCMP unit WILL be a Police Car with flashing Blue And Red cherries maybe a couple Ambers in the Back Windshield.. Acompanying this unit Will be Sounds. (first thing that comes to mind is a siren)(Freeze this is the police)(Pull your car over to the side of the road)(you have the right to remain Silent)Could use some input.. COME ALL YOU CANUCKS!!!!.. i know you've been arrested for one thing or another.. Help me in designing these units and together WE SHALL CONQUER THE WORLD!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

possum
Feb 21, 2002, 03:04 PM
Hey, Great Idea!
I wouldn't have near enough patience (sp?) to compleate an animated unit, let alone four. One thing though, I'm Canadian, and it kicks a$$, but an attack of 8, and a defence of 16, thats like a panzer I think... How is that going to really work out for realism's sake? I love what your doing, don't get me wrong but could you explain that to me?

possum
Feb 21, 2002, 03:10 PM
I dont know, mabey like one of those 8 wheeled LAV-25's that are unique to Canada that the RCMP uses would do pretty good for those specs (A8 D16). Just my opinion though
Keep up the good work, an dont let me discourage you!!

purplexus
Mar 29, 2002, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by possum
Hey, Great Idea!
I wouldn't have near enough patience (sp?) to compleate an animated unit, let alone four. One thing though, I'm Canadian, and it kicks a$$, but an attack of 8, and a defence of 16, thats like a panzer I think... How is that going to really work out for realism's sake? I love what your doing, don't get me wrong but could you explain that to me?

Okay the best way i could use to describe this is this.. I'm not looking for a Offensive unit as more as a defensive unit. still one with mobility. When it came to the RCMP.. if you noticed as in the units b4.. the units double their attack and doubled their Defence.
The only thing i could use to describe this is that the Police don't work in Singular force but in multiples of thousands. they aren't offensive but very defensive. they have many different vehicles they use from sled dogs to snow moblies to Police cars. etc etc etc
I just want them to be represented by having a Police car as how the common city folk like me see them. I hope this helps in figuring out that the numbers for these units are indeed correct. And that they are not too overpowering.. besides.. you can change these numbers to whatever you'd like to change them to.

Demetrias
Mar 29, 2002, 08:52 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sunfirey2k
[B]and it's usually Americains, no NOT ALL Americains, I know many and they don't feel this way, it's usually some southern hick who has just come out from hiding under a rock)

Who are you to be bashin southerners ya fool of a canadian I was get all set to like and respect yall and you and to get on there and say something stupid like that. I like canada and even wanted to play it a couple of times but you just make me sick. You think you've got stereotypes think about us. And if you want people to stop thinking canadians are brainless and unimportant stop acting like it.

P.S. Canada as a Civ is a good idea but i would like the game to have a lot more civs period.

Sunfirey2k
Mar 30, 2002, 05:19 PM
>Who are you to be bashin southerners ya fool of a canadian I >was get all set to like and respect yall and


Well if your taking offence to the comment you can't blame me for calling you the hick, yes I know not all southerner's are hicks(in fact I've been to the south and find the majority pleasent and very friendly) but don't tell me there are none of those inbread freaks out there who have Aunt Mom and Uncle Dad(we get Jerry Springer up here to ya know.


>you and to get on there and say something stupid like that. I >like canada and even wanted to play it a couple of times but >you just make me sick. You think you've got stereotypes think >about us.


HELLO!!!! why on earth do you think this is even going on? Because of the STEREOTYPES most Americains have about(or as Americains have been brainwashed to think, ABOOT) us Canadians and our igloo ways, Eh. If it makes you sick then you need to have a reality check and see what YOUR country has as views of the neighbours to the north. Sadly it's the moinority of Americains that know what Canadians are like and how our two countries are pretty much identical.

>And if you want people to stop thinking canadians are brainless >and unimportant stop acting like it.

Well with that brain freeze from the ice or the hockey sticks hitting us in the head it's hard. Besides I don't have to defend myself to you, all I have to do is quote the molsen commercial "I AM CANADIAN" damn proud!


>P.S. Canada as a Civ is a good idea but i would like the game to >have a lot more civs period.

I agree with you on that, any Civ that anyone wants SHOULD be allowed, if you can make it then your free to.

SFY2k

P.S. Remember Salt Lake City Hockey? Double Gold!!!!!!!


P.S.S After I posted I found something out... I have to take back my southern hick comment... they are moving north to Detroit it seems(this is a Detroit Radio station) http://www.971fm.com/kt.htm

raven
Apr 19, 2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Shastram
First time i read this thread... one type of question I notice all the timeis what is considered a civlization? But I dont think it belongs in this thread. Everybody has their own SCHOLAR opinions aobut it (that is if they have any education at all).

I just have to say one thing. I love Canada. I love Montreal. I am Indian (from India) originally, but Canada really is one of the best places I have ever seen, ESPECIALLY MOntreal. People are so nice here... For all those doubting Canada's abilities as a scientific and industrious nation, please read up before you talk, know before you say anything against anybody based out of your own damn sterotypes.

I think all civs belong in CIV 3.. I was disappointed to see that they included only 16 of them. We should have had more.. CTP2 (i know a lot of ppldont like CTP or CTP2) had 32 CIVs in it.. (I never played CTP2 personally).

We should be given a chance to be anybody, represent any country or civilization cause after all, when it all comes down to, its a game.. a fantasy.. that you live in while you play.. controlling a CIVILIZATION... all these RTS, turn based or simulation games, thats what they are all about.. getting the player lost in a fantasy world of his own.. right? We love to escape reality, thats why we watch TV and we play video-games.. and if the game was all about Historical simulation to the last dot, well then we would have trouble.. dont u guys think?? Besides, it will be very hard to represent history, the era around 4000-5000 BC is hotly debated as to what kind of civs actually existed back then.. history talks based on bias..

anyhow.. good job for making the mod :) i'll take some of your changes and put it in my game for SURE! :)

Thanks Dude


Shastram
P.S. Canada is a GREAT NATION.

It's a game; it's a fantasy; but every fantasy has a sense in it. (I wish Civilization was a more realistic game.)

And you say "Canada is a great nation" just because you moved to there! It makes me sick!

And to Canadian mod makers: What's going to come next? Switzerland mod?

No offense... Really... Let's be sensible for a moment.

Demetrias
Apr 20, 2002, 03:04 PM
SunFirey

You are talking about the stereotypes my country holds for yours and then using one on the South. Is this not hypocritical? Thats what i am getting at. You may think the south holds stereo types about canada but there are very few that i know of. The ones that come to mind are that you have a weak army, that you speak funny, you love hockey, and your nice. How is this bad maybe you would disagree with the weak army but that hardly matters. In this day and age who needs a big army. America built the hick stereo type and spread it to the world why must you support it. You yourself said you have been here and seen the reality. So why should you hold on to the old stereo types when you know the truth.

P.S. If you really believe Jerry Springer you are stupid. The only thing faker then Jerry Springer is Dolly Partons tigol bitties.

TigerZuke
Apr 20, 2002, 05:56 PM
Americas rise is not exactly late..

well it is compared to say Babylon or Persia, but who knows what freakish civs may form in the future? Perhaps a nuclear war forcing bands of raoming survivors to band together? Would they form another "America" or "Russia"? i dont know.... only the future will tell.:)

Geddy
May 09, 2002, 06:12 PM
I am an American I believe that America invented everything ever invented and is the richest and best country in the world. I know this because Grorge W Bush is NOT a dunce, but a very intelligent, worldly man and he told me.

It you don't believe me then go to this link at the UN development office and you can see that AMERICA is way above measly old Canada on the Human Develpoment Index...I think..

http://www.undp.org/hdr2001/indicator/

coolcosh
May 10, 2002, 12:01 PM
HOCKEY! YOU IDIOTS FORGOT HOCKEY!

newfangle
May 11, 2002, 09:51 AM
All you people that say Canada is not scientific or industrious are more ignorant than well... Americans.

Scientific: hmmm, electron microscope, vacuum cleaner, washing machine, telephone, avro arrow, Canadarm, fast attack frigates

Industrious: 30 millions peeps industrialize the second largest land mass in the world.

dannyevilcat
May 12, 2002, 09:33 PM
Gahhhh!!!! Let's look at this way:

Is Canada:

Religious? Not particularily so, and there is no predominant religion here anyway

Militaristic? :lol:

Commercial? Our dollar isn't worth much...

Expansionist? Well, this one might have a case,

but who cares?!!!!?!?!?!?!!!! Everyones a critic, just make some minor changes of your own instead of nitpicking those of others and please end this crap!

muppet
May 21, 2002, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by Demetrias
...You may think the south holds stereo types about canada but there are very few that i know of. The ones that come to mind are that you have a weak army, that you speak funny, you love hockey, and your nice. How is this bad maybe you would disagree with the weak army but that hardly matters...

The 'great north' has some strange misconceptions of the American south.
The Canadian military is weak. It is a sensitive issue to do with national pride. One dislikes being dependent on another for security.
We really do speak funny. I love the southern accent.
We love hockey. Hockey is actually a British 'invention', but we will NEVER acknowledge that.
We are nice. You'd be too if you were a nobody.

P.S. If you really believe Jerry Springer you are stupid. The only thing faker then Jerry Springer is Dolly Partons tigol bitties.

Many, all over the world, dislike giving Americans credit for 'intelligence'. It's really too bad that some think that their dogs are 'intelligent' animals, but humans born under the American flag are stupid until proven otherwise.

OTOH. If we all had a better sense of humor, like Jerry Springer, the world would be more fun.

Fier Canadien
May 21, 2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Canadria


You forgot a few

vehicle air conditioners
CPR dummies
AC radio tubes
The Canadarm
Electric hand prosthesis
electron microscope
explosives vapour detector
green garbage bags
ginger ale
the goalie mask
first heart valve operation
ship based helicopter landing systems
IMAX
Insulin
basketball
kerosene
lacrosse
lightbulbs
tracer bullets
pablum
the pacemaker
the paint roller
rollerskates
snow blower
snow mobile
time zones
telephone
the washing machine
the zipper
acetylene
the automatic machinery lubricator
automatic postal sorter
Bone Marrow Compatibility Test
Electric Car Heater
Electric Streetcar
Film Colourization
Gramophone
Odometer
Plexiglas
Radio-Transmitted Voice
Screw Propeller
Tone-to-Pulse Converter
Undersea Telegraph Cable
UV-degradable Plastics
Variable Pitch Aircraft Propeller
Wireless Radio

This is just a partial list

And, in the side of great constructions you can say:

Hydroelectric dams (Manic 5, LG 2, Churchill falls complex...)
The Trans-Canadian Railroad
The Confederation Bridge

And to complete the list of achievement above :
The 735 Kv electric lines

Exept those, your list was quite complete!:goodjob:

newfangle
May 21, 2002, 02:39 PM
Insulin. Banting and Best were, er... the best.

Fier Canadien
May 21, 2002, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by newfangle
Insulin. Banting and Best were, er... the best.

Yes but, Manic 5 is still the greatest "barrage hydroélectrique à voûtes multiples en béton" in the world and LG 2's reservoir is realy insanely immense.

[plasma] :rotfl:

newfangle
May 21, 2002, 07:21 PM
I don't consider hydro dams achievements. Anyone that considers them "green" power is uneducated.

Fier Canadien
May 22, 2002, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by newfangle
I don't consider hydro dams achievements. Anyone that considers them "green" power is uneducated.

Yeah, there not that green (mercury due to plant decomposition and the place submerged by the reservoir) but they produce gigantic power with almost no permanent danger for the environment (no CO2, no danger of nuclear meltdown...). But i thik that LG2 is realy bigger than the Hoover Dam witch is considerated as a wonder in C3...

Et, à propos, avez-vous une idée d'où s'en va l'électricité est-canadienne? Dans le cas de LG2, LG2a, LF et de Churchill falls, elle s'en va aux USA, donnant un bénéfice net d'un peu plus d'un Milliard de $ canadien à Hydro-Québec chaque année!!!

Demetrias
May 22, 2002, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Fier Canadien
But i thik that LG2 is realy bigger than the Hoover Dam witch is considerated as a wonder in C3...
[/B]

I think they put in Hoover for the Engineering feat it took to actually build that Dam. LG2 probably is bigger but it also was built later and did not take so much extra work to get it done. Like the four tunnels through the mountains to divert the Colorado.

Fier Canadien
May 23, 2002, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Demetrias


I think they put in Hoover for the Engineering feat it took to actually build that Dam. LG2 probably is bigger but it also was built later and did not take so much extra work to get it done. Like the four tunnels through the mountains to divert the Colorado.

How long are they? Cause any hydro central exept the "au fil de l'eau" central got tunnels to enhance the power of the water that goes in. For example : LG2 and 2-a tunnels are about 160 meters deep underground compared to the Robert-Bourassa Reservoir.

Just for my culture.

archilles
Jul 13, 2002, 09:05 PM
I'm sick of this Canada vs. USA Cold War.

I'm a Canadian.
I'm a Canadian-American.

I used to hate America based on the stereotypes and rumours that ran rampant in Toronto. Now I know better.

So it sickens me when some American makes a comment that why would someone want to be Canada in the Civilization games.

It's always offended me that Canada has been left in the dust in so many video games.

Street Fighter for example (although I heard this rumour that they wanted to use a Mountie but the RCMP said no because it would ruin their image)...anyway the point is Civ and all it's similar games are supposed to be for FUN.
FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN.

Go to www.ultimatewarrior.com and learn to THINK.

NO more nation bashing and the like. All countries and civs should eventually be in a Sid Meier Civ game and that's the bottom line.
(no i'm not a wrestling fan! UW is a very smart man who's got some great philosophies)

If you've got some links to some Canada mods for games, let me know.

Until Later, eh!

moonlight_rambler@hotmail.com

Lt_Tarantulas
Jul 16, 2002, 10:47 AM
man... ive participated in this tread back in winter.. and its -still- raging? man eh... :eek:

say btw...
to the mod maker.. any update forthcoming to make it more compaticle withthe new patches? cuzits a pain to have to recopy al the name change and all

Sunfirey2k
Jul 16, 2002, 11:14 AM
Hey it's been a while since I've seen this thread, thought I'd check in and let everyone know yes my Igloo did melt due to the heat... 2'C really is a killer, gotta get those short's out and trim down the moose (She's sweating up a storm). Now if only the ice would come back I could get the Geese to pull the sleigh across the river.


Basking in the 2'C heat

SF2K

newfangle
Jul 16, 2002, 12:22 PM
Now our Molsons aren't frozen! YAY!!!!

purplexus
Jul 20, 2002, 02:52 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by muppet
[B]

Hockey is actually a British 'invention', but we will NEVER acknowledge that.




Best get your facts straight and think about it for a second...

Hockey WAS invented in Canada.. if you want the facts about hockey look them up for yourself.. Now if you are speaking of lord stanley going over to england to play hockey and where the first stanley cup was awarded yes it was in England. a game between the Royal team and the canadian team.. I mean with all that snow in england they must have invented it as we have none in canada.

purplexus
Jul 20, 2002, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Sunfirey2k
Hey it's been a while since I've seen this thread, thought I'd check in and let everyone know yes my Igloo did melt due to the heat... 2'C really is a killer, gotta get those short's out and trim down the moose (She's sweating up a storm). Now if only the ice would come back I could get the Geese to pull the sleigh across the river.


Basking in the 2'C heat

SF2K


Santa claus caved in my igloo during Christmas holidays :confused:

Huge lawsuit going up against the Arrogant Jolly Extremely fat man.. maybe he should think b4 he tries climbing down a chimney he definately isn't going to fit in.
Left me homeless for 8 hrs while we built another one.
almost got snow on my computer (lucky he didn't do that or):slay:

muppet
Aug 29, 2002, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by purplexus
[QUOTE]Originally posted by muppet
[B]

Hockey is actually a British 'invention', but we will NEVER acknowledge that.




Best get your facts straight and think about it for a second...

Hockey WAS invented in Canada.. if you want the facts about hockey look them up for yourself.. Now if you are speaking of lord stanley going over to england to play hockey and where the first stanley cup was awarded yes it was in England. a game between the Royal team and the canadian team.. I mean with all that snow in england they must have invented it as we have none in canada.

Check out this CBC article:

http://cbc.ca/news/features/hockey_history.html


Claiming that hockey itself, as opposed to 'organized' hockey is a Canadian invention just doesn't sound right.

This one suggests that the first ice hockey game in Canada was actually played by British soldiers:

http://www.maxpages.com/shsharland/The_history_of_Ice_hockey

HotDog Fish
Aug 31, 2002, 02:35 PM
Well you have to understand back then there was no real concept of a Canadian Citizen, up until even WWII we where 'Citizens of the British Empire' first then Canadian, In Quebec it was we are Quebecois....and that would be it, so techincally you can call almsot all of Canadian inventions up until then English inventions, but anyways Canada kicks butt...and so does our beer

Fier Canadien
Sep 01, 2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by HotDog Fish
Well you have to understand back then there was no real concept of a Canadian Citizen, up until even WWII we where 'Citizens of the British Empire' first then Canadian, In Quebec it was we are Quebecois....and that would be it, so techincally you can call almsot all of Canadian inventions up until then English inventions, but anyways Canada kicks butt...and so does our beer

I strongly agree with you!

Also to notice that Canada wasn't a country until just before WWII, we were a Dominion of the UK in wich the only difference from a colony is the right to vote it's budget!

As for the Québécois (i'm one), they are (the franco-canadiens) for the most part still like that...

Lt_Tarantulas
Sep 02, 2002, 06:55 AM
Still like what?

big guy
Oct 10, 2002, 01:23 PM
Just a few questions concerning the .bic file format the civ mod packs come in.

How can I edit these? Is it a programming language file format? What program do I need to open it up, view it and edit it to make my own civ?

Also, is it possible to edit each civ to have 3 distinctions, for example the new Canada civ could be industrious, scientific, as well as, expansionist? You could add to commercial to the Americans and so on.

Any help with this would be appreciated, thanks.

ZeekLTK
Oct 14, 2002, 06:12 PM
"You say Canada suck.. hmmm... who won GOLD in men and woman hockey in Salt Lake city?

Take THAT!
*start signing We Are the Champions...*"

What? Canada can't even beat Cuba or Trinidad & Tobago in CONCACAF? What? USA finishes in top 3 EVERY year? (Damn Costa Ricans won it last year :/) What? Canada has only been in one World Cup ever? (and they got their asses kicked hardcore) What? USA beat one of the top countries in the world, Portugal, and almost beat eventual runner up, Germany?

What? Doug Flutie is one of the best players from the CFL and he's only a backup in the NFL? What? Canada got owned in the World Basketball championships? What? The only team they beat the whole tournament was Lebanon? What? The Montreal Expos are going to be contracted because they suck so much?

And where is the Stanley cup this year? Is it in Toronto? Is it in Vancouver? Is it in Calgary? Is it in Winnipeg, Edmonton, or Ottowa? I believe it resides in JOE LOUIS ARENA right here in Detroit! What up now Canada? WHAT UP NOW! :P

Lt_Tarantulas
Oct 14, 2002, 06:37 PM
im not gonn argue with you about the other sports, and i agfree expos suck :p

but hockey wise, hard to competition when detroit salarial mass is 4 times that of any Canadien team

because we have to pay player in #%$?%$?$% american money and we get our money in canadien

why should player who spends from august to june here... should be paid in american money for working here?

i never understood that.

Benz
Oct 23, 2002, 03:19 PM
Since Civ III is just a game, I don't see why Canada shouldn't be a civ to play. Civs like Canada, USA, Australia are young compared to the egyptian but, we enter in a discussion civilization vs nation rather than wether or not Canada should be or not in Civ III.

For the insider Canadians, it is hard to define Canada because there is more than one nation in this country. The English, the French and all the natives are different nations with different languages, different political and historical choices, and different civil laws. It is then hard to reflect it into a civilization game because there still a political problem on that matter into Canada.

Canada should rather look like the new European Union.

The French part of Canada is mostly located in Québec while the rest is English. Natives are spread everywhere and they try to do their best with the remaining lands.

The two biggest issues...

Québec: This nations is out of the constitution since 1982 and it is unacceptable that the English part of the country can set the rules alone. Two solutions ahead. Québec separate or, Québec obey to the rest of the country till the end of its distinct existence. Well, these is a third solution but, the partisans of the two previous ones have a lot of difficulties to accept it. The recognition of Québec nation and a deal signed with these two main nations to form a REAL confederation like the EU and like it was supposed to be in 1867. The day Canada was born.

Natives... a lot of work ahead. They really need the recognition of sub nation and some kind of sovereignty on their own lands. They still fight bit time for every inch since the time the Europeans conquered north america. In 2002, it is unacceptable.

Despite all these nations had several conflicts at each others, they managed pretty well to develop this country and place it amoung one of the best reputation in the world.

See... the history of Canada is very interesting and it deserves more than a good beer reputation. However, several issues must be resolves before the real face of Canada can be revealed to the rest of the world.

Oh, by the way! Iroquois is more legitimated to be in civilization than canadians (english & french). In the early colonization of north american, the Iroquois nation was more developped and avance in many aspects than English, French and Dutch. However, they were way more naïve and not pretty much equiped in arsenal.

PS: Avis aux fédéralistes-unitaristes et aux séparatistes, vous ne m'impressionez guère. Je salut amicalement les confédéralistes et les souverainistes. ;)

yumyumtreetree
Dec 01, 2005, 02:13 PM
New Great Wonder idea- Stanley Cup
If anything it should count as a second capital (third if you have the Forbidden Palace).
And on the note of civs not in the game, what happened to the Carthaginians, they were the best civ in civ2. Personally, im thinking of replacing india with them, considering the special unit would be the same.

These are great...the mod should definitely repalace/rename the following:

New reilgion: Taoism changes to Hockey (of course)
Allows you to create Great Artists Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux
Allows you to create Great Scientists Scotty Bowman and Don Cherry

UU= "4th Line Goon" (a little Ty Domi icon)

All Temples change to Tim Horton's

You can research Curling and Baseball
Baseball allows you to build GW "Olympic Stadium" which becomes obsolete with the discovery of the Washington Senators

Resources change from Pigs, Corn, and Dyes to Backbacon, Crepes, and Elsinore.

dharmabum06
Dec 02, 2005, 12:04 PM
Good Day!
So, like, did I miss something, or has anyone actually said what mod this is we're talkin' aboot? What got updated?
Also, great idea about the Canada civ goin Old Time Hockey there... leaderhead should be Don Cherry, and his collars and coats get weirder over time... other leaders mebbe Maurice Richard, and Gordie Howe (yes a Deadwing but Canada born) I saw the Dallas Stars play the Habs in the Molson Centre once (the ex won tickets on the radio! whee! $3,000.00 prize tax on next year's taxes sorta took the wind out, tho...) and got a great lesson in Quebecois: I kept saying, "Pardon" to people when i wanted by, or did something American like step on a toe in the crosswalk. People would stop and glare at me impatiently, like, "WELL?? Now what??". Finally a helpful grrl with earmuffs took pity and said, "You must say, "scusee", not "pardon". That means excuse me. You've been asking them to pay attention to you." Then I tried to order in broken Quebecois for a few painful minutes, while the guy just stared at me. He finally said, "would it help you to order in English?".
Why do people think Americans are stoopid?

Cheezy the Wiz
Dec 07, 2005, 09:45 PM
@Yumyumtreetree

Wow, thats really something! How about a nuclear unit that represents steroids? IT would become obsolete with the discovery of the Congressional Hearings!

I feel I should comment on the Canada civ thing too..

Canada is in the same ditch we (America) are, we arent only enough to be compared to, say, Egypt or England or anything like that, but are there becaus we are a modern day power who contributes much to the world.
Oh, and the Iriquois were barbarians, just like the other native american tribes. I mean, think about it, the people we popularly consider "barbarians" such as the goths, osthrogoths, visigoths, Mongols and Vikings, they all are the same, people just dont want to talk about it, because its a "sensitive subject." They ought to be just another one of those barbarian tribes who raids our unguarded settler, and gives us a free 25 gold (and sometimes an elite unit! :) )

Thats all I have to say about that.

yumyumtreetree
Dec 14, 2005, 08:52 AM
Well I am glad you guys got a kick out of the post. BTW, I just noticed that my reply was to a thread written in 2002 so I am surpised you guys even found it! lol