Post who you want to be the Defence minister.

I nominate CivGeneral

I would be happy to accept :)

i second CivGeneral as defense minister

CivGeneral sounds good

I only know a few people on the team so whatever.

Term two nominations have started. So nominate who you think will be a good Defence minister.

Peter Grimes has been a vlauable part of our team. I nominate Peter Grimes.

I nominate myself and I acccept. With me a defence minister, I will give the team detailed scouting moves and give advice to Domestic as t what cities need to be producing units for our civilisation.

I decline any nomination that is presented to me since college is starting soon and do wish to focus more on the first month of the semester. But would like a less demamding office.

Anyway, you cannot run for the same office in two consectutive terms.

Anyway, you cannot run for the same office in two consectutive terms.
Excuse me for having a brain fart ;), but is there something in the consitution that says that I cant run for relection. I apologise in advance for my brain fart ;).

8) No person may hold the same elected office 2 terms in a row or hold more than 1 office at the same time, except in cases where the position would otherwise not be filled.
Nevermind :blush:. But is it possible for me to run in another election?

Excuse me for having a brain fart ;), but is there something in the consitution that says that I cant run for relection. I apologise in advance for my brain fart ;).


Nevermind :blush:. But is it possible for me to run in another election?
How do I know this rule, because the Team Captain showed me it when I tried to run for President again.

I will support any Minister who will get a navy happening as a priority ... so any nominees please indicate their views on this ...

hmmm, we need to change that law, I must have passed it over when reviewing the Constitution...

I nominate myself and I acccept. With me a defence minister, I will give the team detailed scouting moves and give advice to Domestic as t what cities need to be producing units for our civilisation.

How can you disagree with a platform like that? :goodjob:

I second C_H for Defense minister.
(although you will always be remembered as the first president of our team!)

i second peter grimes nomination he has been very valuable and so has C_H but i think it is better to have some new faces in office

Because I am technically absent, allow me to be brief:

1. I accept the nomination.

2. As Defense Minister, I will undertake as rapid an exploration of our coasts and frontiers as possible, with the goals being two-fold:
a) encounter these strange people travelers have been telling us about
b) search for natural resources
Goal '2a' will allow us to establish contact, hopefully before the other civ has contact with anyone else. If we are first, we will have more bargaining power than if they already have contact with someone else.
Goal '2b' will allow us to have valuable commodoties to trade when we eventually establish contact. But more importantly, 'b' shows us where we may settle productive cities; where to block enemy access to resources and geographical choke-points, and where the enemy is likely to want to place cities.

3. I think it is likely that contact will be established during this term, and all voters should keep this foremost in mind. Once contact is made, the race will already be over. The scramble for territory and knowledge of the world has to start NOW - once we make contact, it's too late.

So much for being brief :)

does C_H have a arguement like this? i hope so cause i really hate one sided discussions

I think both C_H or Peter would be excelent defence ministers.

The most important thing for us at the moment is to explore and keep the outer cities with some sort of defence, at first against any barbarian occursion and then for defence against our enemy. I will propose to the Domestic minister that the next city should be on the coast so that we can start building some curraghs for exploration. So here is my platform.

1. We must explore and find as many possible good locations for settling.

2. We must start up a navy for waterborne exploration. This will move faster than what we can be doing and it allows for us to see any possible passages for contact with the other Continent.

3. We need to be scouting for locations that might contain resources, particularly luxuries and strategic resources.

4. We need to start building up an army that will strike terror into the hearts fo our enemies.

5. I will also give detailed instructions to the President to follow. They will be clear to follow.

Yep. We shall "strie" terror into the enemies. Sounds good.

On a side note: we should rename this position from defence minister to offence minister!

Yep. We shall "strie" terror into the enemies. Sounds good.

On a side note: we should rename this position from defence minister to offence minister!
:clap: you have pointed out my misspelt words when the key did not react properly.

Term three nominations have started. So nominate who you think will be a good Defence minister.

i nominate peter for defense minister, he has been a valueable part of this team since day 1 (well day 2 or something since he joined after it started but who cares)

I humbly accept the nomination.

Though I do believe there are others on this team more qualified than I to head this department, I will angage this election with the goal of providing our team with the Minister most appropriate for this period in our History.

The upcoming term will see several critical events:

1. KISS can be expected to produce some Gallic Swordsmen
We need to understand exactly where KISS is on our Continent. Once we have visual contact, we will be able to better evaluate the potential of a Gallic Swordsman invasion. I hope to be able to trust KISS on their word, but if elected, I won't let us get caught with our pants down.

2. We will start to scout Doughnut territory
Snarling Narwhal will find Doughnuts. Beacuse they are on a separate continent, we don't have to worry about the threat of aggressive invasion. We do need to be concerned with Encroaching Settlement. To thwart that, we need intelligence on how far away they are. This will allow us to evaluate the threat rationally. No need to send warriors to disallow dismbarking of settlers that aren't coming.

3. TNT may be contacted
This dovetails with 2. I would hope that we don't contact them for a while. I'm sure that the Foreign Minister would disagree, but from a Defense standpoint, they are an extremely powerful threat.

4. Our barracks, and hence Hoplite Defense, is imminent
This will be the most important project to be undertaken this term. I understand that there is still discussion about exactly when and where to build a barracks. Domestic Minister and Defnese minister need to work closely and effectively to reach this goal: Full Hoplite coverage of our core. Ouposts/General Defense can follow after this primary goal is achieved.

5. Barbarians will continue to remain a thorn in our side, but if we are lucky, in KISS's side as well
Hopefully this will not spiral into a rural insurgency. Escorting all settlers with warriors is not just a smart idea, it will also allow us to then send the warriors on further Barbarian Hunts once the city has a hoplite. This will allow us to Pop the Huts with wild abandon!

Because I feel this position is critical to our survival, I feel we should have open and honest debate on this issues. So please post questions on anything that you'd like my opinions on, and, because this is so very important.......

I nominate Rujikiin and M4 Sherman.... Let the Debates Begin!

EDIT: In the interest of Full Disclosure, there is something every voter should remember: I cannot view the save, therefore I am wholly reliant on timely screenshots for all map information. This may or may not be a factor in the debate.

I support you ... but would like Tankman to raise his hand also ... or anyone else

Regarding who i will vote for ... well you'll have to wait :p

The nominations for Term 4 is hearby open :)

I like Peter as defender of the Team

I like a contest! I'd like to have to prove my mettle rather than have the position handed to me. Therefore, I nominate Fe3333au, known to some as "The Alchemist"

I will consider whether or not to accept my nomination later on. For now I'm undecided.

I decline good sir ... I will apprentice myself to someone like Rujikin, MIA's very own Rottweiler ... so I nominate him as well :D ... and then be his meat boy ... ummm ... feeding boy :blush:

well Peter - I'll give you a run for your money in this race!

I'll nominate myself for Defense minister!
(as long as some one else agrees to run for President. If no one else will run for Pres - then I'll stay over there and bow out of this race)

BTW - I think you've done a great job as Defense Minister and I'll be happy to lose to you when the time comes. I'd cross nominate you for President, but I know you can't play the save.

So far we have two accepted nominations ... General_W and Peter_Grimes

I don't think peter_grimes has accepted yet - he said he was undecided....

I'd like to see some speeches from General_W and whoever else decides to run. Specifically, how many MP do you plan to keep around now? What are the priorities re: MP, escorts, exploration (including the other continent?), and barb hunting? What do you anticipate building from Meleagerville (warriors, hoplites, swords/horses if hooked up)? If we get to Republic next term, how much military (and what types) do we keep, and what do we disband (if any) to avoid unit costs?

Terms seem to be taking around 3 weeks. I am in the process of moving right now, so I don't want to take on a responsibility I am unable to uphold. There is a bit of work that I need to do to the new place, and that must take priority (you guys should see my new place: beautiful views of the [real] UN right across the river!) On the other hand, I should be more free at work in the near future, therefore I accept.

As to Chamnix' Question to the Candidates:
1. Specifically, how many MP do you plan to keep around now? What are the priorities re: MP, escorts, exploration (including the other continent?), and barb hunting?

There should be a minimum of 2 MP in the core until we get a barracks up and producing. This will be difficult to achieve, especially with the threat of HBR looming. However, our AW Heron and AW Butes may be brought back closer to the core to assist with escorting, as well as AW Athens who is now on a long voyage to the spices.

As to Prioritizing, we cannot afford to lose a Settler. KISS already have at least 7 towns, and losing the 4 turns it takes to make a settler would be a terrible setback. Escort duty should trump MP duty: If we take a couple more turns to get a tech that's not nearly as bad as losing the investment of time and shields wrapped up in a settler. There is always money to keep the masses happy. Exploration of the other continent should begin as soon as possible after MapMaking is finished. Get a harbor built, upgrade (unlikely) or build a galley, and get a 2 warriors over there, popping huts. The barbs here will be handled as their risks are evaluated.

2. What do you anticipate building from Meleagerville (warriors, hoplites, swords/horses if hooked up)?

The first units to be built by the barracks will most likely be 3 warriors to assist in MP and escorting. After them, if there is no strong objection, Horsemen will be built to patrol our frontiers and keep the wastes clear of barbs. These units will also be avaible for exploration duty on the other continent. After 2 (at least) or 4 (finances permitting) are built, then we can start building some hoplites.

3. If we get to Republic next term, how much military (and what types) do we keep, and what do we disband (if any) to avoid unit costs?

This is the most difficult question for me to answer, as there are many variables to consider that I can't even begin to nail down. Basically, it all comes down to how large a military budget we have. I can't put a very fine edge on that number, as I don't have much of an idea what our overall budget will be.

Assuming, for the sake of arguement, that there is a military budget of 10 gold, I see 2 of that gold being Galleys, 4 Hoplites, and 4 Horsemen. That's not a big army at all. I'd really like us to be able to afford about 15 gold (obviously, the more the better!), and we could have a couple more each hoplites and horsemen. This will allow us to have low luxury spending, a good number of explorers on the OC, and enough horsemen at home to flexibly respond to barbarian uprisings.

As to disbanding, I see the curraghs in the north a prime candidate. The warriors could be upgraded at some point in the future, but I'd only do that if we saw war on the horizon. Any warrior currently on MP duty could be disbanded (harvesting his shields) once a Hoplite is activated to replace him. I would still keep some warriors for escort duty until our enitre army has been refined to Hoplites for defense, Horsemen for escort, and Swords for offense.

Application Form

Desired Position: Defense Minister

Name: General W

Qualifications:
Served 2 terms as President
Pioneer in the art of Screen-shot magic
Primitive MS paint skills
My name has the word "General" in it

Shameless Dig at Opponent:
Unlike Peter, I can actually open the save and see what's there :p


Plans if Elected:
I see the next term being divided into 2 sections – 1) Pre-Republic and 2) Republic


Pre-Republic:
In Civ, you can never do everything you'd like to do. Personally – I see losing a settler as a much greater potential risk than getting attacked in our core. Therefore – settler escorts should be a higher priority than MPs.

I would still like to see at least 2 MP units (1 in Athens and 1 in EMP city once it gets up to settler factory status) Having 2 MP in Athens doesn’t help us if we have to use the Lux slider to control an equally large EMP city. Of course – if we end up with an extra unit or two hanging around – that's great.)

Assyrian Bane is almost done mapping the Southern Border of KISS land – at which point I would like him to turn back south, uncovering as much black as possible along the way – and aim to be back in time to escort the final settlers in our land grab push.

AW Butes – After popping that hut, I'd like him to come back to assist with the Land grab settlement also.

Since KISS isn't begging us for a favor anyway – and Assyrian Bane is already Elite – I would advocate him ignoring/avoiding any barbarians (including any ones we come across as we head back south). Quite simply, we have nothing to gain – and much to lose. Popping any huts as we go south will be fine – but then I'd just keep moving on – no engaging barbs if it's possible to avoid them.


For Meleagerville (Military Factory) I agree with the basic philosophy that Peter laid out. Build some warriors (just 1 or 2) first for escort duty. Horses as soon as possible to replace our warrior escorts – and Hoplites after that to replace our warrior MP units.
If Meleagerville is active enough – and Republic is slow in coming, I'd like to see "Operation Pandora's Box II" with our surplus military to eliminate those last huts in our core. Details would be worked at when/if the situation presents itself.


Republic:
The whole game changes at republic!

IIRC, we get 1 free unit per town in republic. Hopefully by the time we get Republic that means we will have something like 14 free units.
(we're not likely to see any "cities", and the 3 free units, as long as our settler pumps are running)

Unfortunately, we'll probably have around 14 workers (or more!) at that point also – given our current pace of building them.

Also, once we make the switch to Republic, MP units become irrelevant for happiness purposes. (but hopefully we'll have 2 or 3 lux items by then to offset the loss of MP happiness).

I view a military budget of around 30gpt as totally unacceptable. (that 15 units at 2gpt).

Therefore, we will need to consolidate and prioritize.

Units to Disband:
Trusty Guppy – Disband just before republic. The guppy will have done its duty in mapping KISS's coast, and we'll no longer need him. (really, he'll be pretty much done with his primary job in about 4 turns)

AW Heron – by the time we get Republic – he will have done his duty escorting settlers, and since we'll have Veteran Units from Meleagerville – he can be retired.

AW Athens II – Will have done it's duty escorting settlers prior to the Republic jump. Not a veteran – so not worth keeping.

AW – Antipater – Will also have done it's duty escorting settlers prior to the Republic jump. Not a veteran – so not worth keeping.

Any "extra" warriors we produce from Meleagerville if we end up waiting longer than expected for Republic

All Horse units except for 1 (will be used for Core Defense)

MP duty: 5 Units
AW Athens – moving with Fe's settler –guard our spice outpost till we get better Defense up there.

2 Hoplites along our fringe in the Jungle. While we won't gain happiness, MP will be necessary along the jungle area to protect from barbs – unless the area is thoroughly settled by KISS – in which case this may STILL be a good idea – just so KISS doesn’t get any ideas seeing a whole line of undefended cities.

1 Horse in the Core – to quickly respond to any Barbarian outbreaks.

1 Horse to guard any workers too far away to run to a city if Barbs show up. (ie ones building roads up to our land grab cities)

Continuing Settler Escort Duty: 2 Units
Assyrian Bane – Since he is Elite, he should be hung on too, and eventually upgraded to a more advanced unit.

AW Butes – (if still alive from hut – otherwise substitute a Veteran Horse unit here)

By this point in time, 2 escorts should be enough to complete what's left of our settlement strategy.

Foreign Lands: 3 Units
Snarling Narwhal – I still believe the Narwhal has much valuable intelligence to gather, and I would argue for keeping it in service until it has circumnavigated the other continent.

Galley – To carry the below units overseas

1 Hoplite and 1 Settler – To settle the other land.



That works out to be about 10 units of support for our Republic = 20gpt.

This is still a little high – but I don't see how we can reasonably do with less. Of course, as we found more cities this will drop by 2gpt with each city. Also – if we were to add some workers to, say Athens to get it up to size 7 – we could pick up even more support.

(Remember, we'll also be spending at least 4gpt on building maintenance, and we may need lux to keep our cities happy (depending on how quick we get the spices hooked up to the network and if we can trade KISS or TNT for their Wine).


Ok – I know there are some rough spots here – mostly due to a lot of uncertainty about WHEN we'll get republic, how many towns we will have at that time, and how many units we'll be able to build between now and then… but hopefully my guiding philosophy is clear. (also – I hoped I answered all of Chamnix's questions – even though not directly)

Feel free to post questions!

:wow: Why disband ?!?

Curragh ships ... we need lookouts positioned in sealanes or near other continent to view war ;) ... want to get friendly betting with KISS maybe ... could be fun sport and 1gp per bet :D ... and they could be upgraded !!! ... and used to transport ... and offensive craft ...

Warriors are also cheap MPs so I'd keep ... I'd have more than one city guard on the outer cities ... Barb uprisings are scary :eek: ... and if they are considered a drain have them abroad where the dangers are numerous ... and additional city security would be required ... abroad worker guards essential ...

In my games I never disband ... so I don't like your talk of disbanding :cringe: ... but that's just me :p

That's funny - in my (singleplayer) games, I disband almost everything after converting to Republic:p . If there are no barbarians set (or very little open land near me), I have been known to have no military at all for a while:cool:.

Of course, we can't do that in multiplayer, but the thinking is that every unit costs us 2 gpt at that point. In Republic, they can no longer serve as MP, so if they are not useful, why are we paying them? "Useful" includes exploring, barb protection, and deterring aggressive neighbors, but we want to keep the minimum necessary to accomplish those things. It is possible that we cannot afford to disband any units and still be safe, but I definitely wanted our candidates' views on the matter, and I am glad they both addressed it.

First of all, General_W, I'm throwing down the mitts!

Your speech was so moving even I was ready to vote for you by the end! Don't get me wrong - I will vote for whoever will bring the greatest glory to Greece and the nation of MIA, but I haven't yet made up my mind.

As to this business about Republic and unit costs and disbanding, I must profess a little confusion. I thought that in Republic all units cost 1gpt, and there was some MP advantage... Maybe this is another difference between Vanilla and Conquests.

In any case, you all can be assured that whoever is elected will be trying to maximize the utility of the units available, without bankrupting us. As Chamnix mentioned in domestic nominations, we may not wind up switching this term in any case. It will certainly be a discussion meriting its own thread.

As to this business about Republic and unit costs and disbanding, I must profess a little confusion. I thought that in Republic all units cost 1gpt, and there was some MP advantage... Maybe this is another difference between Vanilla and Conquests.

You are right - I had completely forgotten about Republic in Vanilla because even the Vanilla GOTMs are modded to mimic the Conquest rules. The republic unit support rules:

Vanilla - no free support; 1 gpt per unit
Conquests - free support of 1 unit per town, 3 per city, 4 per metro; excess units cost 2 gpt.

There is definitely no MP in Conquests Republic. I didn't think there was in Vanilla either, but it's been so long...

peter grimes and General_W are in the elections.

The ballots are open :) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=139836)

I nominate
General_W and ClassicalHero

I nominate Peter Grimes for this position as I feel we need someone with heart and well as strength ... and you may all recall that Mr. Grimes looks after an ailing mother and a sickly sister ... security at home will be ever in his thoughts.

I'll accept. It is high time that we need direction in this area.

I respectfully decline.

Going to run for Domestic.

:salute:

I humbly accept the nomination, thus absolving me from the need to weigh the advantages of running for Team Captain or Domestic Minister.

So, on to the fourth round of Orations:

I will not explain to you all why I should be in charge of our Armed Forces. I cannot do that: You must all decide within your own Hearts what you feel is best for the security of our Nation. These are dangerous times, indeed!

TNT
Forgive me for starting with the east one first! Think back to the early Iron Age, when every person near and far had heard of the treachery and irrationality of the TNT. Seems we've almost done a complete 180 turn here. TNT are not a military threat to us. TNT play no first-level role as far as Defense is concerned. They certainly play a second-level role - as pawns to be placed in position to harry our other two adversaries.

DNUT
Getting hotter.... We are about to land scouts on their land. There is no way around it, sooner or later somebody has to be the first to land on the other continent, and I am proud that the first units will be Greeks! This simple act will change the diplomatic geography for the rest of the game. Before this term even begins there is a very good chance we will have been declared At War With Dnuts.

If this happens we will need to orchestrate our moves very carefully: We don't want to hit a Golden Age while we are not in the government of our choice. So, until we are out of Anarchy there will be allowed no Hoplites overseas! It is for their own good, and for the long-term good of our economy.

KISS
This is the one I've been putting off... Where to start?

Assuming KISSMIA continues into the Middle Ages
We will have minimal need of aggressive military units on our own continent. Barbarians are the biggest concern, and they can be cleared shortly now that our military factory is humming along, and a second one to come online in the next term. This does not mean we don't need any defense at all - on the contrary, I would rather see a stronger military force at home than overseas. I see our home force consisting of about 5 Hoplites and a couple of Horsemen. Scouting forces overseas shouldn't need more than three or four warriors (veterans and elites exclusively) and three Horsemen.

If KISS goes schizophrenic and welches on the deal
I can't speak to the government type we'll wind up with, so I can only forecast under Despotism. We will produce a skeleton crew of Horsemen to act as a rapid response force, and then produce Hoplites for defending our Frontier towns.

If we are lucky enough to not be in Anarchy if war breaks out with KISS, we should send a Hoplite north, with the dual intent of a) pillaging important resources, and b) engaging a Golden Age when they inevitably put a stop to the pillaging.

If this seems like a bleak assesment of our current and near-future military situation, unfortunately we have KISS's recent greediness to thank. Even so, we are currently the team best positioned on the Tech Tree, with the strongest defensive unit until the middle-Middle Ages, and top-tier productivity. In other words, the future is Rosy!

Thanks Peter - Regarding recent developments with KISS, how do you feel about the potential of signing a Right-of-Passage with KISS and letting them launch attacks on Dnuts from our shores? (and vice-a-versa)

Classical Hero- would you care to elaborate on how you will provide direction for this department?

KISS have also suggested that their first target may in fact be Nuts.

What are your feeling about this ... and would you embrace a double attack while leaving TNT temporarily free to reinforce and grow while everyone pummels Nuts ???

Regarding a potential Right Of Passage Agreement with KISS

KISS has mentioned investigating the utility of a ROP agreement for the purpose of prosecuting a war against DNUT. I can only see one way this would work to their benefit: If there were a road connecting our territories, passing through the jungle. A Pan-Continental Highway would be the largest engineering project to date. It is possible, but the investment would be enormous. Using Galleys to ship the units south may prove more economical, and therefore I see this as a purely hypothetical question.

But if we chose to enter into that sort of arrangement with KISS, we'd need to buy a little insurance: I'd want to have a few units of ours hidden in the jungle, ready to pillage the road if KISS abused the privilege - or if things got tense. I'd also like to have some horsemen (Knights would be better) in their territory, just as they would have units in ours. We could station them outside a couple key cities to monitor production, and we could also have two stationed on their iron. Hopefully this would be acheivable in turns of unit support, as this would be pretty far in the future, if it happened at all.


Regarding KISS attacking DNUTs and leaving TNT alone for a little while

I am skeptical of their public statements concerning their war plans. Really, the natural place for them to attack is on the NorthEast of BattleIsle, while the natural place for MIA is in the SouthWest. If TNT is left alone, I don't see that as our problem, so much as it will hinder KISS in settling closest to their core. Also, a stronger TNT will put up a stronger fight against KISS. That would be the largest dividend gained from KISS leaving TNT alone for a bit.

KISS is eager to go to war, I would much rather see us remain above the fray, but if they want to go to war against DNUTS, that will only help us. Let's just make sure there are enough Greek settlers filling in behind KISS's armies so that KISS doensn't manage to get a foothold there.

Ha Ha Ha ... I can see in now.

Lead On brave KISSers we back you up with our swords.

Are we there yet?

Well we need to build a town so we can keep our armour clean and spears pointy!

Well no ... technically we havn't clashed arms yet ... but we have made it difficult for them to attack our rear.

What do you mean where are our armies? Surely you can see the need to protect our property.

Why did we grab the resources .. umm ... to stop TNT getting them in the future.

Ha ha ha

Here is a short statement on behalf of the friends for the election of classical hero for Defence.

So far we have been building useless units such as warriors and curraghs. We need to be looking forward to the future and planing our for better units. We need to be building Horsemen and Hoplites for the offence and defence of our great nation. Eventually these horsies will be available for upgrade to knights and then it will be good knight to our foes.

Also, it is rumoured that my opponent smells, and noone would every want to vote for a guy like him. Also, a word from Meleet came to me and said that everyone must vote for Classical if they want to win this game.

This message has been paided for by the friends for the election of Classical Hero as Defence Minister. Vote for him, or else.

So far we have been building useless units such as warriors and curraghs. We need to be looking forward to the future and planing our for better units. We need to be building Horsemen and Hoplites for the offence and defence of our great nation. Eventually these horsies will be available for upgrade to knights and then it will be good knight to our foes.

This statement reveals traits of my opponent that I can only assume he felt voters should be aware of, for the safety and security of our nation:

There is not a single unit we have built that is useless
Every single unit performs a vital funciton in our economy. Our two curraghs were built to allow us to gain contacts with the outside world. We have successfully traded more than a few technologies because of these 40 shields invested in curraghs.

Our warriors on MP duty (50 shields) has resulted in massive science spending. The ones not on MP duty (40 shields) have performed invaluable escort duty for our settlers (settlers=300shields + 100 food) and workers (guarded workers = 50 shields) By my reckoning, that investment in warriors has saved us from losing about 350 shields and 100 food. Useless, indeed.

We have been talking about building Hoplites for three terms
There has been nearly continuous discussion of the military build queues. To throw out a statement like the second sentence demonstrates a lack of understanding of the discussions of the moment. Simply stroll back through the defense threads and the next few turns threads and read the discussions: The timing of starting Hoplites has been a topic of discussion for weeks. To say otherwise is to demostrate a lack of attention to current affairs.

We ARE building Hoplites and Horsemen
A second horseman is being built, and then our first Hoplite. Just read the defense threads, and it is all right there. There was debate about whether or not to build a Hoplite before the next Horse, but our capable Defense Minister opted for a Horseman. There was no objection then, so I'm not sure why there is objection now.

Regarding my bathing habits
Until we figure out a way to supply hot water to an indoor shower, I am bathing once a week in the river: No more, no less. Any one who has a problem with that may kindly keep it to themselves. Defending the Realm is a dirty business, out in the fields or woods for months at a time. We dont' lead the soft life of a Minister who has offices in the capital, unfortunately. But that's the life of a Defense Minister. If the 'friends' of my opponent think otherwise, they'll be in for a olfactic surprise the first time their idol comes home (assuming he wins, of course :))

Looks like we give em' soft wooded swords and let em' have it out :lol:

By the way .. the more executive of Ministers meet in these (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3029926&postcount=12) facilties ... they are situated under the Foreign Offices :p

Nominated
>
General_W
Classical Hero
Peter Grimes
>
>

We have a vote to prepare :clap:

Looks like we give em' soft wooded swords and let em' have it out :lol:

By the way .. the more executive of Ministers meet in these (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3029926&postcount=12) facilties ... they are situated under the Foreign Offices :p
I have heard that my opponent secretly visits that place, but not for bathing. That are the whsipers that are sounding the city. Any more info about this and my source might get killed, so I will now shut up. More to come as I find dirt on my opponent.

This statement reveals traits of my opponent that I can only assume he felt voters should be aware of, for the safety and security of our nation:

There is not a single unit we have built that is useless

We have been talking about building Hoplites for three terms

We ARE building Hoplites and Horsemen

Regarding my bathing habits
1. They wil be useless if we are to be attacked. Warriors are usless because they lead up a path that has very little potental. Swordsmen are good attackers, but they are slow and that is not good. Our Curraghs have done there job and now they must be put out of service.

2 and 3. Talk is not good enough, we need action. So far we do not have one Hoplite and it is not good enough to say that we are planning to do one, we should have had one by now. We must not build anymore warriors as they are useless. Remember that we will soon be in a republic and MP does nothing for us when we have changed our government. We need our best defence not today, but yesterday. We need horsies because they are fast and they will go to a good upgrade path.

4. Point taken, but you should be the standard bearer for the army. We do not want to kill them by stinking them to death, but by our powerful army. That must get into your head.

Here is an artist impression of my opponent.
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/964/smelly1pv.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Now here is a point that we have not yet done and this is amazing that we have not done this yet. WE MUST GET CONNECTED TO A SOURCE OF IRON!!! This is a serious lack of foresight by this team that we do not have this great resource connected. This is something that must be done, not now, but yesterday.

Now here is my campaign slogan being displayed here for the very first time. You would have noticed that i have used it already in my reply and I will do so contiunally.
It should have been done, not now, but Yesterday! :thumbsup:

Remember to bring out the babies so that I can kiss them and I will shake your hand when I visit you in a town of the great country of Missing In Action. I seriously doubt that you would want to go within ten feet of my opponent.

He he he...

Response to follow after I sort the points worth responding to from the chaff of my opponent's last post.

He he he! :)

1. They wil be useless if we are to be attacked. Warriors are usless because they lead up a path that has very little potental. Swordsmen are good attackers, but they are slow and that is not good. Our Curraghs have done there job and now they must be put out of service.

Warriors are not useless. They serve a purpose. You are correct in observing that the purpose for which they were built is becoming less important; but I will argue to the end that Every single warrior we built was necessary. I also agree with you that we will start putting them out of commission soon. That idea is not unique to you, so don't try and take credit for it.



2 and 3. Talk is not good enough, we need action. So far we do not have one Hoplite and it is not good enough to say that we are planning to do one, we should have had one by now.....

To say that 'Talk is not good enough' is to remind the voters of your lack of understanding of the nuances of our Military History. We have debated, in post after post, "What unit to build where, and when?" The fact that we are just now starting to build Hoplites does not reflect a carefree attitude towards defense: On the contrary, these debates have highlighted just how seriously every single resource use is being questioned. It is for this reason that MIA has the highest (or tied) GDP, Productivity, and Land Area. We are an extremely efficient team, and it is the very fact of debate and questioning that has resulted in so robust a nation. Hoplites play a role in that strength, but until now we needed other units more than we needed Hoplites. Just read through the historical threads. It's all right there.



4. Point taken, but you should be the standard bearer for the army. We do not want to kill them by stinking them to death, but by our powerful army. That must get into your head.


I can take criticism. I will do what I can, while in Athens (at least) to present myself with more of an eye towards Public Opinion. You are right that it is unbecoming a Minister of MIA to issue such malodorousness that the electorate feel unsafe approaching, lest they catch the louse I am currently harboring. I will find my way to those baths Fe mentioned, and see what a short rest there will do.


By the way - interesting about that graffiti... I have searched the walls of Athens, and can't find it anywhere.. Maybe the 'artist' is Classical_Hero himself?

As to Iron...

This is a big step. Once connected to Iron, we have no more chance at a cheap unit. The cheapest offense will then be Archer (20). Swordsman (30) is, indeed, powerful, but I'm not sure we want to connect just yet. I would wait for three or four Hoplites to be built before connecting the Iron. Of course, I am open to arguments on this subject. If elected, I will certainly seek input from the team as to how we should proceed. It is, after all, a domestic matter.

Well, I checked in with a few of the local littleones - I invited them to go to the agora to see Classical_Hero orate. Here is a typical reaction:

Timmy (http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hero0ob.jpg)

Wow even the young playing at soldiers have an opinion ... how much jiggy fruit :banana: did that cost ???

Timmy (http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hero0ob.jpg)
This is typical of my opponent. He is trying to scare the good people of MIA into voting for him. Remember, it should have been done, not now, but Yesterday. :thumbsup:

We must building the best units available to us and thus we must get connected to the Iron. We should have done it, not today, but yesterday. :thumbsup: We must be doing what is best for this nation and that is join us to the latest and greatest technologies. We must take full use of this Iron working or esle we will fall behind.

A note for my opponent. You should have had taken a bath, not now, but yesterday. :thumbsup:

Considering that the real disagreement between Me and Him concerns our past decisions, I am content to stand on my record and feel no need to prove myself any further. It is my opponent, however, who has views to answer for.

I have re-read scores of posts, and I must say that Classical_Hero has been pounding out a single chord throughout the game so far: Build Barracks! Build Hoplites! Build Military! Domestic concerns be damned!

He is, undoubtedly, consistent. I suppose the real difference between us is that I am capable of seeing the big picture: the ways in which military matters dovetail with our strategy as a whole; as opposed to Classical_Hero's insistence that military concerns outweigh all others.

Poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=148727) open ... vote NOW !!!

Term 6!

In the coming war, this position could be the most important, so choose carefully!

I nominate my good friend, past opponent, and puppy-eating dinner partner... Peter Grimes.

Despite lacking access to even open the save, Peter’s done a very even-handed job of managing our troops, and is good at listening to all opinions.

Several Questions for anyone that runs:
Do you think (at this point in time… I understand things may change dramatically) that it will be better to wait for KISS to attack and start the war? Or is it better for us to attack on or near turn 104 and start the war ourselves?

What would your primary goals and objectives be in the coming war with KISS? What do we focus on? Holding our own? Taking towns from KISS?

Broadly speaking - what tactics do you favor in battle? How risky/conservative do you intended to be?

What do you perceive our ideal force mix to be? Specifically % of Hoplites vs % of MedInf vs % Bombard Units? (And how do you picture this changing when we acquire Chivalry?)

:salute:

I am flattered to be nominated again at all, let alone at such a critical time for the prospects of our Empire.

I will accept the nomination, but not without a fight ;)

I nominate General_W! I bet no one saw that coming :)

Now to the posed questions:

I think the war should happen now, while we have a slight superiority in the quality of units. However, I don't think we should attack KISS. Rather, I'd like to see us lure KISS into attacking us at a spot of our choosing. I really don't know how to enact this sort of thing, but I imagine we could lead KISS to think that one of our towns is 'weaker' than the other. That will make their actions more predictable, and we therefore can plan for it. With KISS attacking in our territory, on our terms, we can more easily manage the damage.

Clearly, I am more conservative than not (strange how different I am in reality!) I would not bring the attack to KISS: What will we gain? If we can't take both of their Lux towns, I dont' really see the point. All that will happen is both KISS and MIA will throw shields at eachother, with no net gain or loss, resulting in both DNUT and TNT catching up to us. Therefore, if KISS wants to attack, we should let them. But, we should only let them attack us where we want them to. To be sure, I have absolutely no idea how to do this.

As for Tactics in Battle, all citizens should know that there are others on this team with much more war experience than me, but I like to think that I'm a good listener, and not too afraid or too proud to take wise advice wherever it comes from. But generally, I think it would be dishonest of me to say that I'm a huge risk-taker.

As for the ForceMix, I see our forces being perfectly suited to keeping KISS at bay for a long time. Our Hoplites should be like stalks of wheat in the field: Cut down all you may, and there are still acres and acres all around. Our MDI are valuable and pricey: They will be the skock and awe that will scare KISS into submission. I can't speak to catapults. [In Vanilla, bombard almost never works, and I'm convinced it's due to a bug: 10 catapults, and only one lands a successful hit!?! Please!] But, I will (and have been) reading up on their use, and I will take advice from anywhere :)

Once we have Chivalry, we will have to see what our economic situation is. I would prefer to build several Horsemen now, while they are still quick to build, and then wind up with an equal number of MDI and Knights, slowly weaning our forces of MDI and replacing them all with Knights. It will cost more in Shields, but the upgrade path is more fruitful. As I've said before, [i]I really like Cavalry![/b]

and Naval movements, while not a priority can be of use to set ruses and speculation which will spread like Black Tueday's flaming touch (1967 Australia's worst bushfire ever, wiped half of Tassie) setting alight the tinder that is KISS' paranoia :evil: ... (already they have over, and without proper thought, reacted :lol: ) ...

Navy should be used for defence, as eyes, to pull resouces from the front and to land a 'Greek gift' into undefended territory ... what are the thoughts from the prospective Defence Ministers :hmm:

I nominate General_W! I bet no one saw that coming
:lol:

Thanks Peter – but after our last bruising campaign, I promised my family I’d never put them through another dirty campaign like the last one. ;)

I respectfully decline, and wish you well in your bid!
:salute:

P.S. - I like the conservative approach also... to a point. At the right time, we need to be ready to take the fight to KISS... but that is WAY ahead of where we are now :goodjob:

I nominate Chamnix

I nominate Classical Hero

I nominate my old friend Peter Grimes - if you have time for this position, it'd be good to see you run!

I know you've been busy lately - but you always have good comments and even-handed management of our defenses.

The coming term looks peaceful - but that could change quickly if we get dragged into a conflict on the Battle Isle.

well, no candidate has accpeted, however, C_H and Cham are biother running for Pres, so I guess that means decline

I guess the new President appoints someone or takes over the running of Defence himself.

Weird! Chamnix, Classical_Hero, and Peter Grimes were nominated for this position, and no one accepted.

Peter Grimes accepts, but only so that I can score another uncontested election, and place another placard on my wall. Man, I RULE!

But seriously, this is probably the last time I'm going to step up for this postition for a while. We need (as a team) to get more people to be more active, and I'm certain there are others who are better qualified than I to run this office.

If the team thinks it best that I continue here for one more term, I will happily oblige. But this really should be the last term here for me for a while.

Term 7

nominate!

I strongly encourage other members of MIA to step in here. We may be going to war with DNUTs, and a change of face may be quite unsettling.

I shall nominate myself for this position. Time for the most foremost warmonger here to run for this position.

Let's make this a race!

I nominate Gbno1fan for Defense Minister.
He's been a good and fair-handed contributor to our team, but hasn't yet held an office.

I'd love to hear some kind of a platform from both canidates.
(If gbno1fan will accept?)

:salute:

I accept the nomination.

The Defense Department under my leadership will support the will of the people after careful consideration and debate of all possible actions.

War will not be endorsed until all diplomatic angles have been explored.

But if we do see a war, expect to see and participate in strategical and tactical discussions throughout the conflict.

As my signature quotes Clausewitz, "Defense is the stronger form of waging war." I believe that whole-heartedly. If we have a strong defense built up, there will be a considerable deterrant to KISS and Dnuts to turn to attack us - even if they work together.

Great to see a real race here (that I'm not part of!)

Question for the Candidates
As the current Defense Minister, I have been perplexed recently with the problem of how to divide our forces between BattleIsle and The Core. If we are not to engage in war on BattleIsle, we will settle a couple towns there. But these need defense. How much? Of what units? If we don't settle over there, that almost certainly means that we are planning on attacking DNUTs. So again - how much do we attack with, and of what unit proportions?

I'm just glad I dont' have to answer this one. I was dreading being asked this, but luckily I wasn't nominated ;)

BTW - I would be more than happy to serve as a deputy to whoever is elected, if they want me. At the same time, I won't mind at all taking a break from this. I think this term could be among the busier ones yet :eek:

Great question, Peter.

At first glance, I would attempt to defend the cities by placing them close to one another (ICS, as I'm sure we had planned on anyway), and having roads in between. This would allow our Knights to easily move between the cities.

From there, we could place a small party of Knights in one of the cities. This group would be available for defending the city they occupy or retaking any cities that are unexpectedly captured.

I would also support keeping the cities on BattleIsle at lower populations to encourage them to be sacked instead of captured. It would be better for us to lose a city at the start of a war than to have to have the liability of needing to retake it during the war. In other words, I think it would be better to lose a city, fight a war to victory, and then replace the city, than to lose a city, and have to fight to regain it.

Those are just my thoughts on the question. In reality, I would encourage the team to discuss and debate how to defend the cities, and we could go from there.

Here is a shortened version of my platform as I do not have much time to really devlop it further until the weekend, since there is a Big game on tommorrow and Friday is always a bad day for me to be posting here.

Eliminate Doughnut is my platform. Why? So that we can make it two horse race between us and KISS because if we do not attack someone then we will be doomed to defeat, so this is really the only course of action.

So your platform is basically MIA vs. the rest of the world which are alligned against us? :crazyeye:

If this is a correct interpretation, I must say I will vote against it! ... sorry.

I at least would like the support of Defence to at least try to allign with Nuts and get the benefits of ensuring a tech lead ... and having KISS attacked on two fronts ... or at the very least having only one opponent to worry about if Nuts choose to sit out the war.

My platform is basically about bringing balance to this game and I see the best way for this to happen is for us to attack the nutters and remove them, because we know that TNT will be removed by a KISS Nut alliance so this is really the best opportunity for us to remove Nuts and bring back balance to this game. The thing is that if we are going to attack someone it is alway better to go for the weaker link, which is DNuts. Fe, if we do not act quickly enough it will be the Rest of the World verses us so we better get onto it quickly to give ourselves a chance of winning this game. Considering that there are still 30 turns to go with that horendous deal with KISS, we really have only one option. Also this way we can see if KISS are honourable like we have been this deal. If people are really willing to wait then we could also delay this until the deal with KISS is over and attack them instead

What we need is for us to go straight for Military Tradition so that we can have Cavs for our attacks. Right now we have an advantage over the other teams since we are the only nation with Chivalry and we should hopefully be able to Cavs before everyone esle, which seems to be the path of the other two teams. Either way action must be taken and we must be prepared for war otherwise war will come upon us and we will not be ready and by then it will be too late.

I disagree. The best way for us to win this game is to build up a strong defense as a deterrant to KISS or Dnuts attacking us. From there, we can use our civ traits to propel ourselves to victory.

I do not believe it will be KISS and Dnuts against us. If we look at it from the prospective of:

KISS... They will eliminate TNT, and are obviously going for a domination victory. In order for them to get enough of the land, they will need to go against either us or Dnuts. If our defense is strong enough, it would be too difficult for them to easily defeat us, so it would be wise for them to attack Dnuts next.

Dnuts... They are seeing KISS going after a domination victory and will undoubtedly see that they are weaker than us, and thus are the likely target for further KISS aggression. In the future they will be very likely to want to align with us.

In the end, we will need to find a way to prevent KISS from defeating Dnuts and getting their domination victory before we win the space race. Therefore, I think our best defensive strategy at the moment is to make peace with the Dnuts, build our diplomatic relationship with them, and help them grow strong enough to prevent KISS from a quick and decisive victory.

Great to see a real race here (that I'm not part of!)

Question for the Candidates
As the current Defense Minister, I have been perplexed recently with the problem of how to divide our forces between BattleIsle and The Core. If we are not to engage in war on BattleIsle, we will settle a couple towns there. But these need defense. How much? Of what units? If we don't settle over there, that almost certainly means that we are planning on attacking DNUTs. So again - how much do we attack with, and of what unit proportions?

I'm just glad I dont' have to answer this one. I was dreading being asked this, but luckily I wasn't nominated ;)

BTW - I would be more than happy to serve as a deputy to whoever is elected, if they want me. At the same time, I won't mind at all taking a break from this. I think this term could be among the busier ones yet :eek:
My preferred unit would be the Calvary because the extra movement that they have is a killer and every other team knows this and this is why they are going that path. IF we are not quick enough in doing this we will have to wait until we get Infantry before we do any attacking and by this time it will give the other teams time to build up there defences. We will need defensive unit to shore up our gains so we will need to get some of our best defensive units to do the Job. Basically our overall ration should be about 60/40 to 70/30 of the units there/here, would be a good estimate. If we are to be attacking DNuts, then we need to make sure that we have enough units protecting our north and we will need to have ships on scouting duty so that we are not caught off unawares from any naval attacks.

Offically it sucks being the only warmonger in this team.

I don't think the issue is war mongering ... just your strategy.

Blind Freddy can see that KISS is the target ... and two against one are certainly better odds than wasting our resources in sencelessly wiping out Nuts without even giving them the option of joining us in eliminating the KISS threat.

At the moment we have a very good chance of achieving this ... and Nuts are even starting to gain footholds in TNT territory that will at least restrict KISS and hamper unopposed expansion.

I guess regarding the extended peace with KISS, I think it has been a boon for us ... so we agree to disagree onthat one ;)

Don't worry it will be war ... but better a war with the real enemy.

It appears that my intepretation of the facts is different from everyone esle. I see that there are two alliances right now and our alliance is the one that is taking a beating. KISS/Nut allaince is destroying TNT and we are doing absolutely nothing about it. TNT are our partners and whether we like it or not we must do something about it or cancel this alliance that we have, because we (our allaince that is,) are taking a beating. My feeling is that we will soon be attacked by both KISS and Doughnuts, so this is why I am campaining on this platform. It seems that everyone esle is thinking that Dnuts will help us in our battle with KISS, but I am not so sure. In any case we really should be preparing for war and with the possiblity of fighting two sides at once. Things so far have not gone as everyone esle has predicted, but things have gone to they way I thought would happen, so lets hope I am wrong on this. Considering that it looks like that my platform has no chance of winning, I am withdrawing my candidacy.

TNT are our partners and whether we like it or not we must do something about it or cancel this alliance that we have

Realistically, we are cancelling our alliance. We are pursuing an alliance with Dnuts, and we haven't given TNT anything that costs us anything for quite a while.

It seems that everyone esle is thinking that Dnuts will help us in our battle with KISS, but I am not so sure.

Not at all. We hope Dnuts will help us, but it is certainly not taken for granted. The problem is that attacking Dnuts guarantees they will not help us.

I'm disappointed that you want to withdraw. Having more than one candidate airing different views can only help the team.

I agree with Chmnix that having alternative voices is one of the things that make us strong :D

In regards to alliances, nothing is in concrete. If TNT manage to hold KISS off things may very well change. For us I see great benefits in having the added research power of Nuts behind us ... but if they refuse our generous offer, well things can always go as you forsee. The point is we need to dance around and weigh our options at this point in the game.

I ask that my opponent stay in the race.

Even if it seems that your platform has no chance, it would be helpful to have an idea of how many people on the team agree with each side of the issue. That way, whoever wins can attempt to use the information gained through the vote to follow the will of the team and appease both sides as much as possible.

One thing is certian, we must get to Military Tradition before everyone else. We also need to get to at least Astronomy before others because it means that we will have a great advantage over every other nation. We do have an advantage over every other nation right now with Knights, but we somehow chose not to use them and only until the previous few turns we built our first knight when we could have had heaps by now and gone on the war path with them, but we chose to waste that advantage. Lets hope things will be better in the next lot of turns for our military.

I'll renominate myself for this position. One thing is certian with this game is expect the unexpected. I'm sure everyone is planning that we will be attacking KISS right after our agreeement expires, so we must get inventive with any attacks that we make. I know that there is little agreement with attacking Dnuts, but we mustn't rule it out completly especially if a 2 on 1 eventuates and we are at the end of the 1 bit. We need to have ships ready so that we can have an early warning of an assault by either nation. If I am elected to this position I will make sure that no stone is left uncovered in our pursuit of our goals, and that is to win this game. We must be prepared because we have teams here that are not going to go down without a fight. The good thing so far is that we have had a peaceful journey so far and we easily have a tech lead in this game and thus we can use it to the fullest. We will be the first nation out this era so that gives us a great advantage to get some really powerful techs along the way. I think we first need to get Militarty Tradition first and then we make our way out this era and hopefully we get Steam Engine as our free tech and we can then quickly railroad iour territory so that we can have a more flexible defense and thus we hopefully will need less units. I think the goal tec of Industrial era wil have to be Replaceable parts since we will get an awesome defender and a brilliant bombarding weapon. So this is obviously talking about a long term Defense strategy, but we must be look way forward in a way for us to win this game. If we can have Infantries with our Calvaries before anyone else even gets to Nationalism, then we are set for an easier ride to victory. Sorry about repeating myself but it is important to get a right strategy for this game so that we can win it.

ybbor ?

ybbor ?
I misinterpreted you. Whoops. I'll send him an PM about this.

Term 9.

Nominate!

I nominate Peter Grimes :salute:

I nominate myself and accept.

OK another election :clap: (if Peter or another accepts that is)

Can I have the candidates views on unit builds ... are you happy with our current accumulation of knights and trebs which will be upgraded to Cavalry and Cannon ???

What about our own navy ???
... we have been informed that KISS have a quite extensive navy which will not be sitting idle.

Also what are the priorities for the rail network ... of course linking the frontier, but what about quick response to massive sneak naval landing?

I nominate myself and accept.

I am happy with the current path of unit builds. The upgrades will allow us to immediately strengthen our army, and perhaps add to our small (do we even have one at this point? I suspect KISS is already preparing for our attack) element of surprise.

I do not support the building of a navy to compete with KISS. Let them have the seas. The more units they have on water is the less they have on land. Cities do not exist in the water. Cities and resources exist on land. Let's forego a navy and build more knights-cavalry and trebs-cannons.

The rail network will be critical to our defense - especially if we can expect attacks to come from the sea as well (because we will lack a navy). In theory for defensive rails all we would need is a circle connecting our border/coastal towns with a spoke that goes through main barracks locations. Then new units could be sent to any threatened location immediately. Once that is built, we could begin building more spokes to bring more towns into the network, and finally rail the rest of the tiles for the rail bonuses.

We need both. We need an effective rail system so that we can manevoer our tropps quickly to any place, plus we do not want them to have total domination of the waters and thus be able to land just about anywhere they want to, and also they will have set up a system of ship chaining so they can move troops from one continent to the other in just one turn and having a navy will be able to disrupt this making it less effective for them to ferry troops from the Battle Isle to ours and vice versa. We must try and do a bit to stop them from being total domination of the sea.

I am not saying we should try and dominate the seas, but that we should not just simply give up on the sea because eventually we will need to get to the other continent so having a viable navy is a must in our circumstances. We need to have the navy so that we can ferry troops to and from our Continent and we need a navy so that we can be a thorn in other navies.

Of course the most important thing for us to get our rail system up and running, but that is something for our President to be worried about.

I decline :(

I will, however, continue to update the record-keeping in The Armory. I will also take on other tasks if the winning candidate requests :)

What if they give you the whole ministry afterwards? :mischief:

Is that something that you are considering C_H ??? ;)

:bump: Term 10 nominations begin.

Gbno1fan?
You've been doing a great job in my book. Although your update reporting tapered off a bit… :sad: though I can see why… it's been a crazy term militarily!

I think GB has been doing a fine job, despite what my arch-nemesis G_W may say. For one thing, there really hasn't been anything worth reporting since 169.... I don't honestly think there's been any lack of reporting here.

We'd all do well to vote for GB, assuming that anyone chooses to run against him ;)

I haven't decided if I will seek reelection. School starts in a week and I'm unsure how much time I'll have for Civ :(

I nominate greekguy.

thanks Chamnix! I'll accept the nomination and do my best to be Defense Minister. i won't be as active in Sept, however, with school coming back, but i'll try to check out CFC once or twice a day and use CivAssist II, once the error gets fixed.

Exellent a ex-TNTer :salute:

Anyone else?

Greekguy will have to add MIA to his sig if he's going to get my vote ;)

does my new user title fit your voting standards? ;)

Crazy micromanagers, the poor canadate is named Greekguy, he has a picture (ok, what ever, symbol)of the mia unique unit, he practically dedicated himself to be MIAian, yet you still complain! Everything has to be perfect for you! :p

:yup: yep it does :lol:

I will nominate myself and accept. My platform is to basically win the game this term. We must stopp with the pussyfooting around an play this game like w want to win, because to me it seems that we really are not trying to win, because we have a massive advantage right now and we are just sitting around twiddling our thumbs allowing our enemies to get stronger. If we delay this too long, we might be giving up our chance of an easy victory. We must go for RP and go for the quick kill with the double whammy of Infantry and Artillery, way beofre our oppenents get the chance to get them. Victory is at hand, if yo are willing to follow me.

Outstanding - another competitive election! Classical_hero, I'd still like to see you answer the questions from here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4419214&postcount=612). Specifically:

Instead of generalities, let’s talk specifics. How many infantry do you think we need for our initial landing party? How many boats do we need to carry them all? How many of them do you expect to survive Dnuts initial attack? How much damage will they do considering they are 1-move units, and Dnuts will happily abandon any town at risk before we get there (or defend it with their infantry and their defense of 10 + fortify + possibly walls/city bonus since they are as close to RP as we are)? If we bring cavalry along so we have fast units, how many more boats do we need? How many of them will get slaughtered with their defense of 3? How will we deal with war weariness which accumulates every time we defend, win or lose? Dnuts will not have that problem since they will only be attacking and can abandon towns instead of losing them.

ok, i guess i'll have to say something now. ;) here's my platform:

I will focus on the strategy the current administration is following, and that is get to flight as quick as possible, build dozens and dozens of bombers, and then kill D'Nuts and KISS. We also need a strong navy, since the other civs have some ships out there, and we need to ship over land troops, as bombers can't take cities. I think we could use Infantry to take D'Nut cities, after bombarding them into oblivion, but I would prefer to use Marines to take Iroqi cities with greater ease. So, if elected, I would push to go for Amphibious Warfare instead of Motorized Transportation after researching Mass Production in our tech plan. This would get us ready for a massive invasion of D'Nuts, with Marines and Bombers, which IMO, is the best strategy for taking the Iroqi continent.

@ Classical Hero ... "To Win the Game This Term"

Since a term is 20 turns :wow: ... I'll make myself comfortable and await for you to unleash this amazing stratergy to us all :coffee:

I officially decline my nomination and offer my full support of GreekGuy's candidacy.

thanks gbno1fan. :)

at fe3333au: i'm glad i'm not the only one who was dumbstruck by classical's statement "that we'd win the game this term". i really don't seeing that as possible, as we won't have flight until turn 202, and i don't see how we can take D'Nuts' core with Cavs and Infantry.

Actually, if we follow my proposed tech path, we will have Flight on turn 194 by not bothering with Electronics or Atomic Theory (assuming we can still do 4-turn research after our GA ends). However, that plan does not involve getting Replaceable Parts, so if we get RP, then Flight won't be earlier than 198.

For this plan to work, we will also need to have artillery since we will need to be knocking off any hitpoints of any attackers. Right now I would say that we need bout 50 Artillery, about 60 Cav, 40 Infantry and about 10 Galleons. We should try and have a few frigates so that we can sink any attempts to try and reach our lands. Considering that we will have double worker speeds we can then start to put some workers back into cities since they will not be need as much since we can have one worker for two workers. But we still will need workers because for us to fastly capture Doughnutian ground we need to plan for railroads, if they do not already have them. We should try and have some settlers up our sleve just incase they abandon the city we are trying to attack, because we must have a beach head which will make for troop deplooyment much easier than without it.

We will not be committing the full force to the attack because we need to make sure that our continent is safe from any counter attack. I would have about 70% on the attack and 30% to safe guard our continent.

That basically is my battle plan for winning this game. I see that flight is too far away and we have an excellent opportunity to go for RP which can be next, or after Scientific Method.

thanks gbno1fan. :)

at fe3333au: i'm glad i'm not the only one who was dumbstruck by classical's statement "that we'd win the game this term". i really don't seeing that as possible, as we won't have flight until turn 202, and i don't see how we can take D'Nuts' core with Cavs and Infantry.
Here is why we can win in this term. We are still strong against the Nutters thus we have a considerable advantage over them, and considering that they were weak to us a long time ago, we should strike while the iron is hot. Also when we are going towards them we only be facing a defender that is equal to our attacker, whereas they will be attacking a defender that is way stronger than there defence and if we need to get rid of hitpoints then we cn do so with our artillery since they attack twice and they attack froma distance. Adding al these factors should make a victory for us assured.

Interesting…

We have:

1 knight (1 elite)
43 cavalry (4 elite, 38 veterans, 1 regular)
17 hoplites (17 veteran)
1 MDI (1 veteran)
16 native cannons
19 captured cannons
2 galleons (1 veteran, 1 regular)
1 caravel (1 regular)

To get:

50 Artillery = 600 shields to build 15 cannons + 3,000 gold to upgrade 50 cannons to artillery
60 Cavalry = 1,360 shields to build 17 cavalry
40 Infantry = 1,380 shields to build 23 riflemen + 2,220 gold to upgrade 23 rifles and 17 hoplites to infantry
10 Galleons = 560 shields to build 7 galleons + 15 gold to upgrade 1 caravel

Total cost of classical_hero’s proposed military = 3,900 shields + 5,235 gold

It will take at least 10 turns from now to get Replaceable Parts (assuming we still get Scientific Method first) so those shields should not be a problem. That much gold will be tough to come by while researching, but we can always use more shields and less gold by researching Replaceable Parts before Scientific Method to build things directly instead of upgrading; or we could ignore Scientific Method and save money that way.

Hmm… maybe I should stay out of the nominations thread and stick to Grand Strategy, but it should definitely be possible to get that military together.

Disclaimer: Someone should check my shields and costs. In case it is not obvious to everyone, the longer this game goes on, the less I know – my single-player games generally don’t reach the Industrial Age, and the ones that do are almost never still competitive so I don’t really pay attention to details as much :blush:.

But if we leave 30% of our forces at home, then our attacking force will approximate DNUT's entire defenses. This would be a disaster.

Consider:
Right now we are STRONG to dnuts. It is unlikely that DNUTs are trailing our strength by a huge amount. Therefore the reasonable conclusion any general would come to is that we must plan for DNUT's current strength to be just below the 4/5 limit (preventing them from being AVERAGE to us). So they've got 79% of our strength, and you're talking about sending 70% of our forces abroad (on only 10 Galleons?!)

This is not a safe plan for invading and winning. Overwhelming force is the only safe bet, in my opinion (for what it's worth :))

Don't forget that these units are rough estimates and are basically just a starting point to engange in discussion. The numbers are not totally important but the fact that we start getting towards a force that is ready to attack. That is what I am aiming for. Also the first stage of the war is to get a foothold on the continent. I do not think that they would have too many workers to make fast inroads to the project of railroading like we have. They still have not cleared much of the swamplands and marsh that they would have had control of for a long time.

@Peter, I think you are overestimating their forces, from what we know, they were weak way before this war started and hu they are still weak as it is now, so I would assume that they would be considerably weaker compared to us than what you might think.

This is a question fo my opponent, what are your estimate for forces in your eventual attacking force?

@ both candidates…

Seeing as how every nation in the world now has rails… how do you see the existence of railroads fitting into your military strategy?

Personally, I think rails are the single most important military "weapon" until the advent of flight.
Rails are what made our 2 turn destruction of KISS possible (when combined with Cavalry)
Rails allow instant transportation of our entire military to any point of invasion – and ditto for our enemies… who don't have as extensive a network as us, but will certainly have the major spine of one done asap.

And yet I hear Classical Hero talking about seaborne invasions and GreekGuy talking about a strong navy.

Thoughts from the candidates?

This is a question fo my opponent, what are your estimate for forces in your eventual attacking force?

I figure between 40-60 Bombers to bomb cities to oblivion, 40-60 Marines to walk into empty cities, and whatever Cavs we have at the time, the number of them isn't important to me, as they'll play an auxillary role. I think most of our defenders i.e. Infantry should stay on the MIA continent, though a few Infantry to defend some cities would be nice. I also think we would need between 5-10 transports, depending on how many units we ship over (most of which would be Marines) and around 8-10 Cruisers, which IMO, are the best naval ships to build. I think a force composed of what I suggest has a better shot of conquering D'Nuts since Bombers have lethal bombardment and artillery do not, and also Marines are better to attack with (if they need to attack) then Infantry.

@ both candidates…

Seeing as how every nation in the world now has rails… how do you see the existence of railroads fitting into your military strategy?

Personally, I think rails are the single most important military "weapon" until the advent of flight.
Rails are what made our 2 turn destruction of KISS possible (when combined with Cavalry)
Rails allow instant transportation of our entire military to any point of invasion – and ditto for our enemies… who don't have as extensive a network as us, but will certainly have the major spine of one done asap.

And yet I hear Classical Hero talking about seaborne invasions and GreekGuy talking about a strong navy.

Thoughts from the candidates?

We can use rails yes, but several D'Nut cities will be in reach of Bombers, and easily taken. For those cities further inland, we will have to overcome by sheer numbers, or send some Infantry into a city for defense and relocate Bombers into it. Rails aren't that important since D'Nuts are using ICS and most cities will be in reach of our Cavs (and some in reach of Infantry and Marines).

Interesting…

We have:

1 knight (1 elite)
43 cavalry (4 elite, 38 veterans, 1 regular)
17 hoplites (17 veteran)
1 MDI (1 veteran)
16 native cannons
19 captured cannons
2 galleons (1 veteran, 1 regular)
1 caravel (1 regular)

To get:

50 Artillery = 600 shields to build 15 cannons + 3,000 gold to upgrade 50 cannons to artillery
60 Cavalry = 1,360 shields to build 17 cavalry
40 Infantry = 1,380 shields to build 23 riflemen + 2,220 gold to upgrade 23 rifles and 17 hoplites to infantry
10 Galleons = 560 shields to build 7 galleons + 15 gold to upgrade 1 caravel

Total cost of classical_hero’s proposed military = 3,900 shields + 5,235 gold

It will take at least 10 turns from now to get Replaceable Parts (assuming we still get Scientific Method first) so those shields should not be a problem. That much gold will be tough to come by while researching, but we can always use more shields and less gold by researching Replaceable Parts before Scientific Method to build things directly instead of upgrading; or we could ignore Scientific Method and save money that way.

Hmm… maybe I should stay out of the nominations thread and stick to Grand Strategy, but it should definitely be possible to get that military together.

Disclaimer: Someone should check my shields and costs. In case it is not obvious to everyone, the longer this game goes on, the less I know – my single-player games generally don’t reach the Industrial Age, and the ones that do are almost never still competitive so I don’t really pay attention to details as much :blush:.
Could you kindly give you estimates of what greekguys plan would cost our nation?

40-60 Bombers (preferably 60)
40-60 Marines (preferably 50)
7-13 Transports
8-10 Cruisers
All the cavs we still have alive
Around 20% of our defensive forces i.e. Infantry
Around 50% of our siege weaponry i.e. Artillery

I'm not really sure what to do with the Infantry/Artillery part, but for the rest:

60 Bombers - 6000 shields
50 Marines - 6000 shields
7-13 Transports - 400-1000 shields + 225 gold
8-10 Cruisers - 1280-1600 shields

Total = 13,680-14,600 shields + 225 gold

How much would rushing cost for each shield? This is assuming that we have already got some shields already in the production box.

Edit. it is 4 gold per shield for each unit that has a shield in the production box and 8 gold if you do not.

It's the 11th and (probably) final term!!

Nominate the one you want to head the Defense Department in the final war for global domination!

:salute:

Tho' busy, I think GreekGuy is doing a fine job here :)

I nominate -gasp!- Classical_Hero for our final term's Defense Ministy post.

CH has continually spoken his mind despite strong opposition from the rest of us. He deserves to have an official role in our final turns.

I decline this position because it holds little power.

GreekGuy has done a fine job - but I'll also nominate both Gbno1fan and Peter Grimes.

You've both done an excellent job in the past - and I'd be happy to see either one of you in this post.

Any takers?

I decline the nomination. Too much going on right now.

i decline the nomination. if term 11 was going on in November or December i'd have time, but school work is really piling up, and i don't want to spend all my free time here making war plans. i second peter's nomination.

Hmmm. I've got to choose between Foreign and Defense.

I will run for one of them, I promise. But I won't decide for another day, unless I hear that the polls are going up.

Just to make it official, I'll accept the nomination.

So far Greekguy and Classical and GB have all declined their nominations. Anyone want to rescind and have fun little campaign?... Please? I promise to make the campaign season short ;)

But bloody I hope ;)