For all your questions about the team and the demogame that don't merit their own thread. Get help from those who have played the demogame before

I'll start; if the defense minister is in charge of all units, does that mean he is alos in charge of exploration?

I would say Yes.

Unless you can somehow explore without units ;)

But the defense minister will not control settlers or workers, as I read the [unratified] constitution.

You generally do not explore with settlers or workers.

It just doesn't seem to me the type of thing the military would handle- that's why I asked

About the start of the gaem: If we are player #3, does that mean we should get the save 2 days after player#1 starts?

It seems as if the game is to start as early as today.

Well, we don't know the order yet

WRT the second question. It will take as long it is will to get to us, within the 24 hour time frame that each team has. Often you can get much shorter periods of time.

Is this the first multi-team DemoGame? I'm much more interested in this one than DGVII. I'm wondering what some of the veteran DG players think.

Is this the first multi-team DemoGame?

yes .

In lieu of my recent phopah (sp?) ... i have some questions regarding this ...

1. MIA has it's own folder ... I assume that all other teams have one as well ... the reason I cannot see it is that I am not a member of their team?
2. If the above is correct, does that then mean that all other team's citizens cannot see our folder?
3. It then follows that they cannot view what our latest posting was?
4. If the above are correct, does that then mean that the only way for the oposing teams to discover our starting position is if they regularly monitor and open all the graphics files posted in the CFC upload area?
5. If all are correct then we should be al right ... however I do appologize again and will use attach in future ...

I have also been using the CFC for the Victory Point screen saves ... my thoughts were that this should be OK as all teams have this information ... However I will change to using attach option ... because if they do stumble across these jpgs then that tells them that another team is at least analysing this information ... and we don't want that ...

1. MIA has it's own folder ... I assume that all other teams have one as well ... the reason I cannot see it is that I am not a member of their team?
Correct.

2. If the above is correct, does that then mean that all other team's citizens cannot see our folder?
Correct. While you see Team M.I.A.'s subforum, Whomp will only see Team K.I.S.S.' subforum and DaveShack will only see Team Doughnut's subforum, for example.

3. It then follows that they cannot view what our latest posting was?
Correct. They don't even see that your subforum exists, just like you can't see theirs.

4. If the above are correct, does that then mean that the only way for the oposing teams to discover our starting position is if they regularly monitor and open all the graphics files posted in the CFC upload area?
If you upload a picture, then that is a possibility. But that would most definately violate the spirit of the rules.

@RegentMan:

Thanks for chiming in on these things. For those of us who have are new to this, your comments have been very helpful.

BUT, every time I see a comment from you I think I've accidently stumbled into a different team's forum. 'RegentMan, who's that? Not on my team! Oh Crap. I've seen somthing I shouldn't be able to!.... no, no,.... there's ybbor, and CivGeneral. It's Okay.'

what if someone has 2 accounts and the sign up with two teams? how would the mods know?

what if someone has 2 accounts and the sign up with two teams? how would the mods know?

there are safgaurds to prevent users from having DL's at CFC. besides, it would be hard to share the information unless you do it by PM, in which case, the mods might notice a bit of a gap in logic between what they know and what they do. plus; we can trust someone would alert the mods

what if someone has 2 accounts and the sign up with two teams? how would the mods know?We'd know ...
But if you do suspect someone being a member of more than 1 team (or similar things); PM me and don't post it anywhere. The only thing that accomplishes is an atmosphere of distrust, killing the game. Usually the suspicions are easily proven wrong.

If there really is someone with 2 accounts, registered in 2 teams we'll discover it quickly enough.

Question regarding Orders ...
if the previous minister (with a majority poll) has decided on a city placement ocation ... and it just so happens that 1 turn prior to founding the city an election has changed ministers ... can the new minister change these orders?

A minister does not have to listen to polls ... it is ultimately their decision ...

I would think that new ministers can change any orders given by the previous ministers - however, if a minister ignores a clear majority of citizens, he will probably have a very difficult time getting elected to any other position later.

Question regarding Orders ...
if the previous minister (with a majority poll) has decided on a city placement ocation ... and it just so happens that 1 turn prior to founding the city an election has changed ministers ... can the new minister change these orders?

A minister does not have to listen to polls ... it is ultimately their decision ...

yes, they can change an order, considering they now represent have a mandate and the old minister's has 'run out' so to speak.

Could someone briefly explain the SGL concept to me. I've never encountered it.

How does one arise?

What can you do with one?

How do they affect GA?

Will there only be one (like a GA?)

Again from the CivFanatics units list:
The Scientific Great Leader (SGL) may appear whenever a civilization is the first to research a new technology. The chance of appearance is higher for scientific civs. You can use SGL to rush any city improvement, including Great Wonders, or to increase scientific output of your cities by 25% for 20 turns. SGL can not be used to create an army.

Still looking for specific odds on that.

You have a 2% chance (5% if you're scientific) of generating a SGL when you're the first to research a technology. If you do, you have two choices as to what to do with him: rush anything (including a wonder) or have a "scientific golden age" where science production increases by 25%. Unfortunately, I've read that this scientific gold age is bugged and broke, so they're basically wonder rushers. Unlike military great leaders, there's no limit into how many you can have. They do not effect normal golden ages.

Awesome! I've never seen the info on the odds anywhere! (I'm probably just blind.)
Thanks Regent Man!

Thanks all.

Wow. Simply Wow. If we are able to set along a path, and be the first, we could conceiveably bang out a couple wonders w/o sacrificing dozens of turns to produciton. That's be something. The trick would be to forecast a) the path of most research success, and b) the path that yields a high Wonder Density.

Do they have to be used immediately? Or are they like a Great Leader, with movement points and fortification ability?

They can be conserved

also, SGL's are really rare, we shouldn't be expecting any, they're just a nice bonus when they come along, don't choose what research based soley on the idea of getting more SGL's.

Do they have to be used immediately? Or are they like a Great Leader, with movement points and fortification ability?
They act just like a military great leader with regards to movement, fortification, 0/0/3 A/D/M rating, etc.

:bump: I don't want to open a new thread so with resurrect this one ... :D

This follows from a conversation with the Prez :salute: ... we were discussing Embassies ... I am big for getting them set by us and NOT the other way round :headshake:

:hmm: When founding an Embassy in a foreign country (team) ... do both teams get a snapshot of the Capital??? :crazyeye:

I recall 90% the answer being snapshot only for the team who spends the cash to establish embassy ... but have a niggle (don't worry not catching :p )

Therefore I see great benefits for it being us to do so ...

City Screen of their Capital :woohoo:
>All connected Luxes
>City Tiles and improvements
>What they are producing
>etc
:mischief: even the p(i)ssoff factor is worth the cash IMO

:eek: also it would be bad if it happened to us :mad:

I can answer this ... no, they don't get a screenshot. Just the first team to establish one.

Thanks GA :salute: ... as I thought :D

:eek: Take heed RNGers the angel of RIK :worship: appears yet again ... what more proof you need :p

We can see a safe coastal trade route to KISS' capital. If we both had harbors could we trade, or do they have to have the trade route uncovered also?

Hey Chamnix ... I asked the question on Quick Answers Post 609 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3290986#post3290986)

Trade Requires

1. Clear sea route, unobstructed from enemy units and/or boarders.
2. A harbour in your kingdom and that of the potential trade partner.
3. Map Making technology (coastal tiles)
4. Astronomy and Navigation are required for trade via sea and ocean tiles respectively.

Thanks for posting that, Feaurius, but this part still confuses me:

You can see the route and trade partners city correct?

In multiplayer, what happens if we can see the route and their capital, but they can't see ours? It sounds like we should be able to trade with them, but they shouldn't be able to trade with us - which is it?

There's been some more responses...

You mean like only one trading partner has the tech to allow the trade? in SP games (I know nothing of MP), only one side needs to know. Same for Mutual Protection Pact, etc., if only one civ has nationalism, you can propose MPP to them. Only one civ has Navigation, you can trade across the ocean with them. It would make sense to me that these things are the same in MP. This was also my gut instinct on this.

and...
I think they can still trade. I suspect that if only the one that can't see the route has the necessary technology, they couldn't trade (if I can get around to it, I'll post results of testing). I don't know of any differences between route requirements in single player and multiplayer. By the way, the Great Lighthouse and magnestism are alternate requirements for sea and ocean trade, respectively. Again... makes sense.

I'd suggest that the player who can see a route is the only one who can 'initiate' the trade deals ... interesting question :D

Being familiar solely with Vanilla, I have not been able to determine if the Wonders (both Great and Small) have the same bonuses, effects, expirations, and modifications if Conquests or not.

Hmm, by now it’s hard to remember what is new, and what was in vanilla. I think new Great Wonders were added for C3C (Temple of Artemis, Mausoleum of Mausollos, Statue of Zeus, and Knight’s Templar come to mind). The only changes to existing wonders I can think of are that Shakespeare’s Theater acts as a hospital in the city that builds it (it can grow above size 12), and I think the Tourist Attraction feature is new (certain wonders start producing income after 1000(?) years).

As far as small wonders, the only thing I can think of is that Wall Street requires 5 stock exchanges (I think it used to require 5 banks, and stock exchanges didn’t exist).

You may want to review these threads. This one (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/greatwonders.php) is a guide to all great wonders in C3C – you are probably better able to tell what changed than anyone else. This one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=104294) is a list of the changes that were made in C3C – I’m not sure it’s really complete, and I don’t know if there were other changes from vanilla to PTW that you wouldn’t know about, but they should be good places to start.

EDIT - The first post in the C3C changes thread didn't look that complete to me, but if you continue through the thread to Arathorn's posts, I think it probably covers everything.

Thanks for that - after I posted, I realize that the rest of you probably are at a deficit regarding the Wonders of Vanilla (sounds like a great Essay title).

Those you did mention: ToA, MoM, SoZ, and KT are indeed new to me, as is Tourist Attraction status. For what it's worth, the Wall Street you described is the same as in Vanilla.

For what it's worth, the Wall Street you described is the same as in Vanilla.

no, you misunderstood, before the chain went marketplaces--->banks. With [c3c] it's marketplaces--->banks--->stock exchanges which are available with "the corporation" and you need 5 stock exchanges to build wall street.

things added in [ptw]:

internet great wonder (don't worry, we'll never get that far)
zero range bombardment. certain units (archers, longbowmen, guerillas, TOW) have a bombardment capability, but zero range. this gives the effect that if they are on a square with another unit, and the other unit is attacked, they get to use their defensive bombard to attempt to wound that unit (the same way putting a catapult beneath a stack would work)
new units: guerrilla, and medieval infantry. Don't worry about guerillas (or TOW infantry which was added in [c3c]) they come to late to matter. the medieval infantry is 4.2.1 available with feudalism, costs 40 shields requires iron. is an upgrade from sowrdsman.
armies have gotton some bonuses
upgrades cost more

Anyone confirm/deny

That embassies are

1. Not advertised to other team when built?
2. Every team has option to build one, even on teams who already have one established on you?

1. One can infer if they see that you have a deal with them that requires an embassy e.g. You have an ROP with Team Blizzard, thus you must have an embassy with them. Otherwise I don't think they can know.

2. No. Once the embassy is built by one, the option goes bye-bye.

I can answer for single-player:

They are advertised if an AI builds one in your capital.
You do not have the option to build one if the AI does so first.

I don't know for sure with multiplayer, but I think it would have to be "advertised" because you should see RoP and Military Alliance as options in the diplomacy screen even if that is the only way to tell.

EDIT - RegentMan beat me to it.

Well that doesn't work ...

KISS have informed me they have established embassies with all teams ...

We were not informed and have the option to build one in KISS ...

Was just checking to see if this was some wierd glitch or the way AI handles multiplayer embassies.

1 sec ... will check a game where oponent built embassy ...

Wierd in other game the embassy icon is shown on the list of players ... confused

If KISS and we are trading luxuries via a sea route, and a barbarian galley breaks the trade route during the IBT, will our cities be in disorder when we receive the save, or do we get a turn grace?

If they are in disorder, are we allowed to use the scroll forward buttons to hire specialists and make it so only 1 city is in disorder? I know we are not allowed to scroll ahead to change builds or share tiles, but is this different?

Well that doesn't work ...

KISS have informed me they have established embassies with all teams ...

We were not informed and have the option to build one in KISS ...

Was just checking to see if this was some wierd glitch or the way AI handles multiplayer embassies.

1 sec ... will check a game where oponent built embassy ...

Wierd in other game the embassy icon is shown on the list of players ... confused

perhaps they meant the had established contacts and they refer to their embasies like we refer to ambassadorships

I have another embassy question ... this time establishment costs.

I have been for the last 3ish turns monitoring the cost to build an embassy in the foreign capitals.

I'm confused as to why the price is twitching up and down in price ... anyone know?

Chatted with Tubby about it


fe3333au: Hi Tubby ... happy thanksgiving
KC Venters: thanks...

fe3333au: anyway ... you're a bit of a guru when it comes to the ins and outs of the game engine
KC Venters: yes ... sort of ... just really regurgitate the stuff I read

Price Fluctuations for Embassies
fe3333au: how come the price to establish an embassy in TNT and Nuts twitches around with dropping and upping price? ... 49 ... 51gp sort of thing
KC Venters: it's the size of the empires I believe

fe3333au: so related to population ... hmmm ... if that is the case maybe the best time to establish would be when settler created ... or other team loses population through other means
KC Venters: well I think that the tiles owned have something to do with it

Price Data
fe3333au: It doesn't make sence cos ecah of last 3 turns the price has jumped around for both teams

<added post chat ... pop drop intel ... and price before turn 62>

56 - TNT=62 - Nuts=49 - KISS=55
57 - TNT=62 - Nuts=49 - KISS=56
58 - TNT=62 - Nuts=50 - KISS=56
59 - TNT=62 - Nuts=49 - KISS=55 ... Nut-1, KISS-1
60 - TNT=62 - Nuts=49 - KISS=55
61 - TNT=61 - Nuts=49 - KISS=56 ... TNT-1

62 - TNT is 61 - Nuts is 49 ... TNT-1
63 - TNT is 60 - Nuts is 49
64 - TNT is 60 - Nuts is 50
65 - TNT is 60 - Nuts is 50
66 - TNT is 61 - Nuts is 48 ... Nuts-2

KC Venters: is that pop?
fe3333au: no gold
KC Venters: oh

fe3333au: confuses me
KC Venters: I think that it is a formula with the # of tiles owned and the total population of both teams ... I don't think that anyone has sat down and came up with the formula since it's a one time event
fe3333au: K ... so pop drop makes it cheaper
KC Venters: I just know that as soon as you can afford a embassy then you need to buy it because it usually goes up
fe3333au: anyway was just curious ... cheers

I have another embassy question ... this time establishment costs.

I have been for the last 3ish turns monitoring the cost to build an embassy in the foreign capitals.

I'm confused as to why the price is twitching up and down in price ... anyone know?
It has to do with distance and size of the city. The larger and farther away a city is, the more expensive it is to establish and embassy.

The exact formula is in this (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/espionage_missions.php) thread.

Thank you to you both who understand the steps and tunes that the numbers dance to :D

The exact formula is in this (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/espionage_missions.php) thread.
I knew there was an article, but I could not be bothered finding it out.

I've searched the forums, and I can't find the nugget that I'm after: Will the military pop head always mention if there is a barb camp?

I'm leery of trusting our safety to that guy - I would hate to wind up in a situation where we think we're in the clear for the Age Change, and then *surprise!* there's a stack of Horsemen threatening us!

I think the answer is yes if our town is the closest one to the camp, but I'm not positive. I can't think of any way of testing this to find out for sure.

It is definitely possible that there is a barb camp closer to a KISS town but more threatening to us because of the NW/SE bias, but then KISS should know about it and hopefully will tell us or just clear it themselves.

quick dumb and completely stupid useless question :p

what is Battle Island, what happened there!! ahhhh AHHHHH I MUST KNOW!!! I HAVE A KNIFE I SWEAR ILL USE IT IF YOU DONT TELL ME!!... well a plastic knife ;)

battle island refers to the other island. It is so named becaus TNT and Dnuts are at war. hence there are battles. And put down the knife.

Errr//

Battle Isle is a place where rationality and reason get thrown out the window.
Battle Isle is where your worst nigtmares about MicroManagement come true.
Battle Isle is not worth evaluating, except to learn from their mistakes.

Battle Isle is a place where everything has gone wrong.

lol thanks guys, and the knife is down

Battle Island may have to be renamed Dud Island cos the fight and bluster has left TNT :( ... and that usually means the brain starts working :mad:

BUT, hopefully we can still spark some paranoia among the residents with false troop movement reports :evil:

Question about uprisings ... Does anyone know how many barbarians are spawned per camp?

EDIT ... have found a reference to 24 per camp in Raging ... continuing the search, this id frustrating task but we may benefit if we get a real-ish value to add to the battle calculator and see how many Gallics can be killed.

EDIT 2

Roaming ... 8
Restless ... 16
Raging ... 24
*Article Sept 2002

Point of Information ... this game is set at Roaming

I have a dilemma ... it concerns the population information of the other team's cities ...

When I open a save ... I can see the population of KISS' Jesterton adn NOT Ignoramus

:confused: Yet I have just realised, with Chamnix's screenies the situation is reversed ?!!

More importantly ... is this something that the admins should be aware of ???

I bekieve that I am patched up to the latest ... so can think of no other reason ... it also may be the reason that I could not see the cultural boarders of the other teams' cities which were hidden in the darj.

I have opened your turn 90 save and see what fe3333au sees: I see Jesterton's population of five, but not Ignoramus' population, although one can guess the latter. Where are the screenies that you're referencing to?

@ RM ... The Screenies are in the State of the Nation reports... I have gone through all of them (both Chamnix's and earlier from General_W's) presidential reports.

Here the latest (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3597475&postcount=25) and I refer to Northeastern View (3rd image)

The difference is that when Chamnix made the picture he was zommed out, but when you open the picture, it is not zoomed out.

@Regentman, look at the State of the Empire V thread for the screenie in question. Look at the Northeast view for the one in question.

So if I were to zoom out ... I would see the the population information?

Yes.

Stupid XCL.

I see what's happening. When you zoom out, the city's tag has to reposition itself for you to see it, and the population number happened to be on a tile that you can see. I know that it wasn't done on purpose as you were just getting information about the north. I guess we just have to write it off as "Well, it's [c3c] ." However, don't start going around the map trying to see hidden populations by zooming in and zooming out. But I feel that I don't need to say that, as M.I.A. has proven itself a very honorable team. :)

I see what's happening. When you zoom out, the city's tag has to reposition itself for you to see it, and the population number happened to be on a tile that you can see. I know that it wasn't done on purpose as you were just getting information about the north. I guess we just have to write it off as "Well, it's [c3c] ." However, don't start going around the map trying to see hidden populations by zooming in and zooming out. But I feel that I don't need to say that, as M.I.A. has proven itself a very honorable team. :)
I think what Cham does it takes a picture from wide out so we can see more of the area so he has to take less pictures. Correct me if I am wrong, Oh noble leader. :worship:

Thanks RM ... ummm ... I have just updated the Looking Glass post 6 which is to keep track of population changes as per viewed from the map !!!

So ... ummm ... does that mean I should not use the information posted by the President as a screenie ?!!

I personally do not exploit this however if it is posted it becomes public knowledge ... so I guess as long as i do not do this myself or ask for it to be done on the grounds of revealing the population it is OK :thumbsup:

Or, to turn the problem on its head - this is not an exploit because anyone on any team is able to get the same info. Zooming in and out is part of the game, therefore it's not giving 'out-of-game' info. Chances are, KISS has had the same experience with some of our city pop numbers.

I'm not being nit-picky here... I'm just trying to point out that the other teams are able to do the same thing, and likely have done it. Maybe they're just not as perspicuitous as we :)

Where are the passwords to get into our gmail and our save?

@Azza ... seek ye the Looking Glass ... i have all passwords and links to location ... it is right at the bottom of the 1st post :D

Also, in the first post of the Empire Management sticky, in a spoiler right at the top :)

What does this mean in the trade screen ???

http://img8.picsplace.to/img8/8/Trade_screen.JPG (http://picsplace.to/)

I assume the lighter font indicates unable to trade due to no land or sea links, etc in place.

But what does the Dyes (0 extra) mean ... is it that Dyes are a commodity that the prospective trade partner does not yet have access to and it would be probably wanted if we had more of them.

I think so... but im not exactly sure what your question was...

I am unsure about the maening of Dyes (0 extra) type of entry ... however I think I answered myself as I wrote the question :lol:

Your answer to your own question is correct.

What does this mean in the trade screen ???

http://img8.picsplace.to/img8/8/Trade_screen.JPG (http://picsplace.to/)

I assume the lighter font indicates unable to trade due to no land or sea links, etc in place.

But what does the Dyes (0 extra) mean ... is it that Dyes are a commodity that the prospective trade partner does not yet have access to and it would be probably wanted if we had more of them.Lightly color: no trade route.
Ivory (2 extra) means: Team MIA has 3 Ivory connected; 1 for team MIA; 2 available (extre) for trade.
Resources that show are resources the team Team MIA is talking to has not connected.

Anyone know how General_W places Excel bits into the posts? I have a 'military production schedule' in excel that I wanted to post, but I don't know how to go about it.

I know how General_W works that voodoo! ;)

He takes a screenshot of the image, crops it, then uploads it using photobucket (much easier than imageshack for full size images – photobucket doesn’t do thumbnails).

Unfortunately, there's no special trick that is easier... that I know of.

Great to see the recent developments and thanks to fe33 for pestering me.

So is the long term plan to lay Kiss over a large stone and treat them like something from 120 Days of Sodom? That guy Whomp deserves a bit of darkness in his life.

Check the MIA Grand Strategy thread. That should fill you in on our debates over just that issue ;)

I don't understand how between turn 104 and 105 we dropped from first down to second place in GNP and Productivity.

Our Productivity dropped from 326 to 314, and our GNP dropped from 282 to 276.

I was enjoying seeing us on top in those categories? I can only assume that KISS has now passed us.

I believe, though I could be wrong, that there are 2 separate factors at work here.

Our absolute numbers dropped due to workers being produced: Citizens who had been plowing fields and accumulating shields came off the land and set out to build roads.

Our relative standing dropped, possibly because we are neck and neck with KISS, or possibly because KISS cities rose in population (resulting in more citizens working the land), or possibly both.

Make sense?

Also - I'm just thinking things through here, I really could be way off. I hope someone corrects this post if I've mislead.

I now keep track of population Peter the post under the KISS Capital Screenie in the Looking Glass and also in the summary which is the last page.

From What we can wee, KISS onlu raised pop in one city.

Ok – I suppose that makes sense.

I'll try not to let it bug me!

Thanks gentlemen! :hatsoff:

Chamnix' question raises one of my own that's been bugging me for a while. Sometimes Chamnix will post 'At least 1 other civ knows tech'. How does he know this? I understand that this affects the beaker cost.

Since two civs know engineering, does that mean that TNT's beaker cost to reserach engineering is TOTAL - 2/7(monopoly cost)?

sorry if this really belongs in the Quick Answers...

To answer your second question first - yes, TNT's beaker cost to research Engineering has dropped.

Which really leads to the answer to your first question. We know how many beakers per turn we are producing (by adding all the beakers in F1), we know how many beakers it takes to get a monopoly tech, and we can see how many turns it would take to complete a tech by letting the pointer hover over that tech in F6.

For example, Engineering takes 1080 beakers as a monopoly for the MTDG map. Suppose we are producing 100 beakers per turn. Engineering should take us 11 turns if nobody knows it. You can go to F6, and let the pointer hover over Engineering. It may say 8 turns, so we know that Engineering actually costs between 701-800 beakers instead of 1080. So 1080 * 6/7 = 926 which is still too high, but 1080 * 5/7 = 771, so we know that 2 civs know Engineering.

Excellent! I can't wait to use this at home :)

I know that coal appears on jungle, hills, and mountain tiles. My question is if you clear the jungle prior to coal appearing, does it still appear on the tile that was formerly jungle?

Same question for oil with marshes.

And rubber with jungles and marshes.

The jungle is an overlay on the tile. If you clear the jungle, the resource on the tile beneath remains.

I read that somewhere, so don't hate me if I'm wrong. But I'm pretty sure it's correct.

:agree:

Does anyone have much experience with fortresses/barricades?

Here is why I ask - I think KISS may be making a big mistake by chopping jungle on our border. If we keep our jungle, then KISS cannot attack us in one turn - they have to move units into our jungle where they will be stopped and we can attack them. By chopping their jungle, they are making it possible for us to declare war and attack their town directly before they can attack our (vulnerable) offensive units. So they have to keep units in their towns for defense (as opposed to our keeping units between towns for flexibility), and we can investigate the town and make sure we have enough to raze a town or two on turn 1 of a war.

What options does KISS have once the jungle is gone? They could plant a forest there to stop our knights, but that won't protect them from cavalry. They could put a fortress/barricade there. If it's a fortress, then I think they have to have units defending it (and we can see how many units there are so we can plan properly again). If they build a barricade, can a barricade be destroyed with artillery-type units first so that it doesn't actually help them?

Is there something KISS can do to prevent an informed MIA sneak-attack or is chopping the jungle as big a mistake as it appears?

(Posted here because I really just want to know about fortress/barricades - this is not intended to start a war strategy discussion).

@Chamnix: I agree, removing the jungle is a big mistake. We should be able to destroy Barricades with artilery like every other terrain improvement. Maybe someone could test to make sure? Sorry, I've never had to deal with enemy barricades before!

I'm posting here because I have my own question.

Does anyone know (or have a link) to how the fighters air defense works? I have very limited experiance with it, and I've never really undersood how it works. It's never seemed to do much, but I'm usually so far ahead by that point in the game, it's never mattered.

Thanks for any help!

apart from Privateers, are there any other hidden nationality units ??

also apart from subs, are there any invisible units?

@General_W - I have almost no experience with aerial war either, so I had the same question. Yesterday, I found this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?%20postid=1540188#post1540188), but I'm not sure I really understand it. It doesn't actually talk about fighters, but the concept should be the same.

@Fe3333au - I think the answers are no to both - at least I can't think of any.

@Fe- I think a paratrooper could be considered invisible, as it can project its presence onto a 10-tile radius.... Or am I confusing this with Civ2?

As for air defense, I can tell you how the AI has used it against me, but I've never had to resort to it for defense. The AI frequently will kill 1 or two of my bombers in an attack of 6 to 10 bombers. That's not a scientific result - just from my own observations.

But I've never had fighters on Air Defense in my cities, so I don't know if the number translates well against another player.

From reading that thread you linked Chamnix, It seems like the intercept rate is 50% - personal experiance makes it seem like it's not nearly that high.

Is there anyway we can test this? Or am I just reading that wrong?

The Emperor has returned

I’m back, is there a place where I can get updated on what has happened since November?

Welcome back, Emperor. This thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=153421) will give you the major events through turn 100. Most of the recent action has been in the KISS Files and the Grand Strategy Meeting threads as we try to determine if we want to formally split our continent with KISS and sign another long term peace deal.

@General_W - I agree that thread is very confusing. I read it (with respect to SAMs at least) as the 50% chance of "intercepting" means there is a 50% chance the SAM will "fire" and divert the bomber from its target. The chance of actually damaging the bomber is calculated separately and is considerably lower.

A Question on Multiplayer:

If General_W (playing as the vile Hicks) investigates one of my noble New England towns, how will I know about it? Will I know about it in all cases, or will I only know if the mission fails?

On singleplayer, there have been many times where my spy mission failed. But, having never played multiplayer, I wonder how the target civ is notified of the failed mission.

You do not know if someone has tried espionage. I have played many and I know from experince.

Turn 131 ... Invention discovered by two teams ...

Can this be accounted for by ...
Turn 130 ... KISS get Invention and sent to Nuts with Accept ???

Yes.......

Again, CivAssist won’t read this turn file! :confused:
(I can't open save files 131 or 132. They open in Civilization to play just fine.)

I’ve reinstalled CivAssist, and still no luck… I can open every file that is BC and older… but everything past 0 AD won’t open… this is the only difference I can find. Anyone have any ideas?

The error text I get from CivAssist is really generic... it says this...
Civ Assist has encountered an exception.

To help us diagnose and fix possible bug, please send us saved game file which was loaded when the problem occured along with the stack trace and exception message.

Please add any other relevant information to the email message.

Please help!
Can anyone open the save files in CivAssist? Is it just me?

I'm still getting wierd City options in Espionage screen for TNT as well. :(

It may be a coincidence but these 'glitches' started when Donsig started zipping the save.

Hmmm... I can't open the save with Civ Assist II either.

Again, CivAssist won’t read this turn file! :confused:
(I can't open save files 131 or 132. They open in Civilization to play just fine.)

I’ve reinstalled CivAssist, and still no luck… I can open every file that is BC and older… but everything past 0 AD won’t open… this is the only difference I can find. Anyone have any ideas?

The error text I get from CivAssist is really generic... it says this...


Please help!
Can anyone open the save files in CivAssist? Is it just me?I have exactly the same in a different PBEM.

I'm still getting wierd City options in Espionage screen for TNT as well. :(

It may be a coincidence but these 'glitches' started when Donsig started zipping the save.I had it after Gmail started keeping attachments zipped. My theory is that Gmail got an "update", automatically zipping files, and that that damages the saves a tiny bit. Not enough to become unplayable, but enough to be unopenable in CivAssist II.

Test it with a PBEM save you can open, and then send it to a gmail account. I bet the save will be zipped when trying to download it from gmail.

Sucks... :sad:

Thanks Rik!
(been chatting with him on IM also)

The zip files do seem to be the problem.
Goooooogle!!!! :mad:

so we either need to get the file a new way... or else just give up on CivAssist.

Chamnix - what do you use to analyze the saves? (Get the beaker counts etc?)

Other teams will suffer from it as well. And all future saves for all teams as well. Can the game admins check which save first started to be buggy ?

I have added a request in TNT letter for Donsig to send save unzipped next turn ... I will expand on this to explain the CivAssist problem.

This will enable a test.

Out of curiosity, do we send our save zipped?

Out of curiosity, do we send our save zipped?

No - at least, I don't zip it, although from what Rik said, it may be zipped automatically by gmail.

Chamnix - what do you use to analyze the saves? (Get the beaker counts etc?)

I use MapStat to check how many units are needed in our border towns to prevent culture flips (and it has still been able to open the most recent saves), but that's about all I use it for - it doesn't have information like CivAssist II wrt individual towns (just population/happiness stuff).

For beaker counts, I just use the number spent on science reported by the in-game Domestic Advisor and manually count up specialists.

Gmail now automatically zips files of certain types and sizes. Just started recently. No way to shut it off that I can see. I believe it's a new "Feature"

Anwyay – got some more error info from CivAssist… don't know if it's useful or not:



Exception: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

at h2.a(String A_0, Int32 A_1)

Stack Context:

at h2.a(String, Int32)
at h2.b(String)
at h2.g()
at h2.ad(Object, EventArgs)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message&)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage (Message&)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(M essage&)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr, Int32, IntPtr, IntPtr)
at System.Windows.Forms.UnsafeNativeMethods.SendMessa ge(HandleRef,
Int32, IntPtr, IntPtr)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.SendMessage(Int32, IntPtr, IntPtr)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ReflectMessageInterna l(IntPtr, Message&)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmCommand(Message&)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message&)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Mes sage&)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage (Message&)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(M essage&)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr, Int32, IntPtr, IntPtr)
at System.Windows.Forms.UnsafeNativeMethods.CallWindo wProc(IntPtr,
IntPtr, Int32, IntPtr, IntPtr)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.DefWndProc(Messa ge&)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.DefWndProc(Message&)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message&, MouseButtons, Int32)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message&)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message&)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message&)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage (Message&)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(M essage&)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr, Int32, IntPtr, IntPtr)
at System.Windows.Forms.UnsafeNativeMethods.DispatchM essageW(MSG&)
at System.Windows.Forms.ComponentManager.System.Windo ws.Forms.UnsafeNativeMethods+IMsoComponentManager. FPushMessageLoop(Int32,
Int32, Int32)
at System.Windows.Forms.ThreadContext.RunMessageLoopI nner(Int32,
ApplicationContext)
at System.Windows.Forms.ThreadContext.RunMessageLoop( Int32, ApplicationContext)
at System.Windows.Forms.Application.Run(Form)
at h2.Main()


Event Log:

5/10/2006 11:52:23 PM CivAssist II started
5/10/2006 11:52:23 PM View changed to General
5/10/2006 11:52:23 PM Loading
"D:\CIVILI~1\CONQUE~1\Saves\MTDG13~3.SAV" for player #-1
5/10/2006 11:52:23 PM Error:Object reference not set to an instance
of an object.
5/10/2006 11:52:47 PM Error:Object reference not set to an instance
of an object.
5/10/2006 11:52:50 PM ---------- Loaded ----------
5/10/2006 11:54:31 PM Loading "D:\Civilization III
Complete\Conquests\Saves\MTDG131_TeamTNT.SAV" for player #-1
5/10/2006 11:54:31 PM Error:Object reference not set to an instance
of an object.
5/10/2006 11:59:49 PM Error:Object reference not set to an instance
of an object.

Might wanna give that to Ainwood.

So the zip we receive is automatic and not a Donsig thing :hmm: ... should this be mentioned in the UN? Maybe others are also experiencing this problem.

Actually I have PMed GA and RM ... they are probably in a better position to test this.

I'm not quite sure what the problem is, and at any rate, it doesn't look like it's something in our control - I would just try it each turn for a couple turns and see if it goes away. It is probably hard for CA2 to read PBEM files and somehow it caused a glitch. I haven't seen this before...

I know this is a stretch, but.....

Is there a way to rename the .sav in such a way as to make it appear as a BC date?

I regularly rename my saves based on huge game events (like starting a Golden Age, or a war): Cleopatra1640BC.sav becomes Cleo_Golden_Age_start_1640.sav

It may complicate things, but we could simply restart the numbering of AD years thusly:

1.sav
20.sav
40.sav
60.sav
etc.

It is probably hard for CA2 to read PBEM files and somehow it caused a glitch. I haven't seen this before...

This, to me, is the strangest part. Gmail has been around for a while. Did it just recently start zipping things? Shamefully, my little trusty compy doesn't really get along well with gmail, so I don't use it. But we're not the only group, nor the first group, of people to be sending Civ3 .sav files through Gmail, so I find it hard to believe that's where the problem resides.

Don't know if my thoughts were more distractive than helpful, but I'd hate for us to be the only team that has lost access to CivAssistII.

Maybe a Game Admin can let us know if we're alone in this or not?... Simply let us know that "Of the teams using Civ Assist II, x are having success."

I'm not quite sure what the problem is, and at any rate, it doesn't look like it's something in our control - I would just try it each turn for a couple turns and see if it goes away. It is probably hard for CA2 to read PBEM files and somehow it caused a glitch. I haven't seen this before...Once it has started, it is irreversible; I'm afraid.
Learn to live without CA2, is my sad conclusion.

I will check it out later tonight and see if I can pin down when/why it happened...

I've asked Ainwood to take a look at it. I've send him Turn 130; which was google-zipped and good and Turn 132; which was google-zipped and corrupt. 131 was corrupt as well, FYI.

Thanks Rik!

You've gone beyond the call of duty once again.

Now, I just have to hope Ainwood can figgure something out.

But either way - thanks again!

Let's suppose we discover Gunpowder on turn 144 and gift it to TNT. Also suppose that we have only 1 source of saltpeter and TNT doesn't have any. We want to give TNT saltpeter for 15 turns or so (we want it for ourselves comfortably before turn 166 to upgrade to cavalry). Is it permissible to gift it to TNT for 20 turns then break the deal after 15 turns by pillaging our saltpeter and reconnecting? Here is the relevant rule:

1.2 - Resource Sharing Exploit

Description: No team or individual is permitted to share a single resource through the use of the Resource Sharing Exploit.

Definition: Two teams gifting and regifting a resource as well as canceling it allow two teams to get use of the same resource that wouldn't be otherwise possible.

Purpose: A resource is to be used by one team per turn, no exceptions.

Verdict: Using this exploit or any other exploit that allows Resource Sharing through any means is a violation of this rule.

Punishment Level: First Offense/Turn (warning) - Yellow, Repeat Offense (2 or more turns) - Orange (2 + turns)

It seems like it should be OK because we are not both using the resource on the same turn, but I'm not sure.

That looks okay. The rule is there to prevent two teams from using a resource twice in one turn.

Correct me if incorrect ... but you can only trade resources if you have more than one supply of it.

No, you can trade all of a resource away. The AI will never agree to it if it's their last resource, though. And if you ask "What will you give me for this?" the AI will never ask for one of your last ones.

Thanks RegentMan!! :salute:

:wow: Never knew that ... learn something new everyday :thumbsup:

I just received a message from Ainwood that the Save can possibly be corrected so that it will reopen in Civ Assist II.

You might want to go slow on playing if you still want to be able to look at the save with CA II this turn. ;)

The VP score for TNT has reached negative gain (ie. decreasing) ... how is that possible?

The VP score is an average score of all turns played so far. If the most recent turn yields fewer points than the average of all previous turns (i.e. - population and territory is less than you had earlier in the game), then it will pull the average down.

thanks :D

xcl

Military Pophead Screen

Is there an accurate way to determine number of units captured/lost. Counting with the slider is difficult.

Also regarding that I am unsure if I miss counted an earlier tally ... specifically workers that KISS captured from TNT.

I just recounted and came with a different number, originally 6 ... now 5.
If TNT recaptured a worker, does the lost tally remain the same or is the number reduced?

Example

Team A loses 10 workers to Team B
... Team A lost box - 10 slaves represented
... Team B captured box - 10 slaves represented

Team A recaptures 5 of the original 10 workers lost to Team B
... Team A lost box - 5 slaves represented
... Team A captured box - empty, because they are reconverted to Workers
... Team B captured box - 5 slaves represented
... Team A lost box - empty


If this is the case then there is no way to tell whether miscounted or recaptured.

You cannot tell if the slave has either been recaptures, disbanded or joined into another city.

I suspect KISS used a slave to build their furs colony - it makes no sense to me why they even wanted a colony, and slaves are way too valuable to waste that way, but that seems to be the most likely explanation.

Had a query about naval units ...

4 x Galleys stacked together - A and B are empty, C transporting 1 unit, D is full.

When they are attacked which ships defend first.

1. Completely random
2. Reverse order of fullness
3. Dependant on what is being carried
4. Other

in my expierence, an empty galley will defend before a 1-unit-galley, which wuill defend before a 2-unit-galley with 2 spearmen, which will defend before a 2-unit galley with 2 mechanized infantry.

don't wuote me on that last bit though...

Thanks ybbor :salute:

I'm feeling like an idiot because I can't find the list of base tech costs. I was going to put together a tech list for the Industrial Age, but I've just spent an hour searching for the base costs!... Anyone know where to find them?

They're in the editor...open it, scenario, custom rules, rules, edit rules, civilization advances tab.

Thanks Ginger :)

If someone posts the relevant info for the Industrial Age I'll put together a TechList like we've had for the Ancient and Medieval Ages. I don't have C3C :(

Thanks Ginger :)

If someone posts the relevant info for the Industrial Age I'll put together a TechList like we've had for the Ancient and Medieval Ages. I don't have C3C :(

classical_hero has already done that! :) Here's the list of Tech Costs for All Ages (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3053108&postcount=68).

Thanks Ginger :)

If someone posts the relevant info for the Industrial Age I'll put together a TechList like we've had for the Ancient and Medieval Ages. I don't have C3C :(
I am very sad that you have not been looking at my work. :sad:

It was buried in the Term 2 Foreign Ministry. That's really tough for me to track down. If it were posted in the Tech List thread, I would have found it on my first try ;)

Thanks for everyone's help. I've updated the Tech List with the next Era's tech costs.

:salute: Well Done Sir

... But surely you should be enjoying nature and boating activities :p

Bloody snowing here :D

Can anyone confirm that a worker on a coastal tile will stop any non-amphibious assault unit from landing?

Can anyone confirm that a worker on a coastal tile will stop any non-amphibious assault unit from landing?

Yes, i can confirm it.

Yeah pity :(

I thought they changed that with conquests...

Yeah, I think they did. You guys might actually wanna set up a test to try it out...

tested, confirmed. a worker can be captured by a non-ampbibious unit from sea

Regarding mobilization –

I haven’t mobilized in a long time, but my understanding of how it works in C3C is that there are some things you can build and get extra shields (units with attack/defense values), some things you can build and not get extra shields (workers, settlers, barracks, bombardment units, etc.), and some things you can’t build at all (“non-military” structures).

I also believe that if you switch from a build that gets you extra shields to a different permissible build that does not give you extra shields, then you keep the extra shields you earned from previous turns.

For example, if you want to build a settler in a town that gets 2 spt when building a unit, but only 1 spt without the bonus shields, then you can set the town to cavalry, earn 2 spt for 15 turns, then change to a settler and have it be completed immediately whereas it really “should” take 30 turns to build a settler.

Obviously, since the game works this way (I think – if I’m wrong just correct me and try not to make fun of me too much), the best approach to use is build units in every town until you have the necessary shields then change to what you really want (note that there are still things you just can’t build at all). The MTDG ruleset is silent on this. I believe doing this is legal in both GOTM and HoF games mainly because it is effectively impossible to ban – how can you tell people they can’t change their minds and switch what they are building?

Nonetheless, this “feels” like an exploit to me, so I wanted to get some other opinions. Can we just not change builds once mobilized? Is “intent” relevant? Or is this just part of the game, and all teams have the same ability to use this method?

I'm not sure if it works that way or not - frankly, I haven't noticed either of the times that I've mobilized myself.

But if it does work, you can be sure that I will be using this technique - NOT exploit, in my opinion - in all situations where I mobilize.

Personal opinion: Since the technique is available to all teams, there is no reason to ban it. After all, each team has shielded the production of a wonder with a palace biuld. This is the same category of technique. I would hope that reasonable people would agree.

That's how I view it as well. A little immoral, but legal nonetheless.

if it actually works this way, I think the inability to build non-military structures acts as all the check that is necessary in this case

Yep, I agree - there will be those times when a time will want to switch builds even if it has no hidden agenda.

That's how I view it as well. A little immoral, but legal nonetheless.
I disagree that it is immoral because it is a technigue open to all players and as such, everyone can use this technique if they want.

At the risk of spamming the thread...

I disagree that it is immoral because it is a technigue open to all players and as such, everyone can use this technique if they want.

You're saying that because everyone can do it, it is moral? Hmm. Last time I checked there were numerous techniques to commit murder, but that doesn't make it moral.

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying that I agree that taking advantage of a seeming flaw in the planning/programming of nationalism is immoral. I just do not agree with this reasoning and simply couldn't resist making the above statement.

Mind is coming up blank...

When we get Mil Tradition, will all our knight builds convert to cavalry? Or will they stay knight unless we switch them?

IIRC they automatically change

At the risk of spamming the thread...



You're saying that because everyone can do it, it is moral? Hmm. Last time I checked there were numerous techniques to commit murder, but that doesn't make it moral.

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying that I agree that taking advantage of a seeming flaw in the planning/programming of nationalism is immoral. I just do not agree with this reasoning and simply couldn't resist making the above statement.
How is taking advantage of the rules, being wrong?

So I bet that you would say that it is wrong for us to start a building with engingeers and thus making it 3 times quicker than normal to build.

How is taking advantage of the rules, being wrong?

Read my disclaimer, where I state:

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying that I agree that taking advantage of a seeming flaw in the planning/programming of nationalism is immoral. I just do not agree with this reasoning and simply couldn't resist making the above statement.

Mind is coming up blank...

When we get Mil Tradition, will all our knight builds convert to cavalry? Or will they stay knight unless we switch them?

IIRC they automatically change

Can someone find out exactly when they change? I've already started playing and moved some stuff, so I can't do it :(. We are going to discover Military Tradition on turn 166. If our cities are set to knights, but they have 80+ shields in the bin on turn 166, will they complete a knight or a cavalry?

(I'm in micromanagement hell here).

Didn't we go through this same issue already when we were building warriors and swordsmen? I don't have time to check the archives now, though. Give me a couple of hours.

From the looks of it, you can still build knights, because having a look at the save, we are still building some trebs even though we should be building cannons only.

:hmm: Maybe there is 1 turn leaway ... either way we shall find out next turn for sure

is there a thread here where i can find our team's gmail address and password or am i just blind? i've been searching through the forum the past 15 minutes or so, but it's not in any of the stickies, and i'd like to see the save as i have an idea i'd like to propose.

It's pretty well hidden - it is in the spoiler in this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3120699&postcount=1).

thanks. :)

First Page of Looking Glass also has all that detail

Regarding the producion of Slaves ... I understand that when a city has a majority of 'foreign' population that foreign settlers are produced.

I didn't realise that slaves are also ... are they the slave graphic?

Anyway what happens when the population is 50% ... ie. Town has pop 2 ... are slaves also produced ??? ... Do these towns always produce slaves until the native population is greater than the foreign?

I thought the foreigners were always used first, regardless of number?

I seem to remember the answer being that it used a last in first out approach - the nationality of the most recent citizen added determines the nationality of the worker/settler, but I can't find where I got that from, so I don't really know either.

How do the victory conditions work in multiplayer?

For example, suppose we have a very successful attack on Dnuts and capture enough of their towns to reach the domination limit (territory and population). If we end our turn over the domination limit, do we win? Or do we have to be over the limit following KISS' turn? Or do we still have to be over the limit at the beginning of our next turn?

We win, but the next player gets the winning screen. :crazyeye: I have experienced it myself, both as the winner and as the defeated.