Discussion relating to our opponents.

I think we should make friends with Greece, for those hoplites are a tough nut to crack. While the civs on the other continent are probably beating on eachother, we could launch an unexpected sea invasion of GS. Let's try to avoid conact with the other continent so they won't even be thinking about us. We can buy techs from Greece.

I would say just the opposite. We want to be friends with everyone unless they are unreasonable with their requests. We want contacts as quickly as possible. Human to human trading will not go by any particular formula like in SP games. The art of negotiation will be critical in this game. No matter how good we think we are 3 against 1 is a losing formula.

We want to be low key and true to our word. We will talk with our SOD when it's time. The worst thing that could happen is we get under a dogpile because we've been deceitful. Let someone else make that mistake and we will gladly jump on the pile.

We will talk with our SOD when its time.

What's an SoD? Probably not a stack of death, right?

Stack of death, doom, destruction...all of the above.

Many paterns are to be expected. Diplomacy and luck will prevail.

Assuming we will have 2 civs by continent:

Two cases might happen:

1- We are able to reach the other side with Galleys
I expect that the 3 weekest tribes will gang up to destroy the weakest. Afterthat, ether the 2 strongest will take out the weakest or vice-versa.

In that situation, we have to balance growth with the others.


2- We will not reach the other continent before Astro/Navig
In that case, we have the option of waging war early to gain our continent to ourself. After that, it's either 1 on 1 or 2 on 1, with the other continent. If they are 2 against us, it's going to be hard, they will have a better research, lower corruption etc.

The other option is team up with our neibour and plan a landing the day we have Astro. when the other side is destroyed, we stab our ally. In this case, diplomacy is key, but IMHO, this is the key to victory.

For either options, having a strong position, growth and army is important.

I think my request for a coastal route was put in place so we have access to all civs.

Be honorable. Talk softly, and carry a big SOD.

A pic from the stratosphere...

And a close up view....

Should we go for the goody hut? I'm not sure of the barbarian settings. How risk averse is K.I.S.S.?

Surely there is some geek out there with the mathmatical probabilities so we can do a proper cost-benefit analysis. An extra settler would be nice right about now.

I get all tingly thinking about the possibilities.

Just to be clear, I favor a conservative apporach on this issue.

Is this the right thread for this post?

A Settler will only pop if

a. no settler is currently running around OR being built
b. you have fewer cities than the average civ. (total cities of all civs) / (total # of civs))

That being said. I would pop that goodie hut before another civ can. If it spews barbs we'll be the blunt of it regardless. The settings are Roaming barbs on Emperor which should mean something to someone. I'll try to find the percentages & be back soon. (If we were expansionist we would get the Monarch percentages, but als were not.)

Wouldn't it be better to pop the hut by settling near it instead?

no unless the settler has an escort. I think that barbs can still come out of a GH busted by a city. Still looking for GH percentages thread.....

I thought we popped huts (vs. camps) in SGOTM7 by city placement and even cultural expansion of those cities.

Found it!!! Goodie Hut thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=93244&page=1&pp=20)

for Emperor
City - 5%
Tech - 10%
Gold - 5%
Settler - 5%
Map - 5%
Warrior - 5%
Nothing - 0%
Barbarians - 65%

I thought we popped huts (vs. camps) in SGOTM7 by city placement and even cultural expansion of those cities.You can pop both camps & goodie huts by
1. moving a unit onto the same tile
2. enveloping the tile into your cultural borders via city placement or cultural expansion

Either way, we have a 2/3 chance of getting barbs and a 1/3 chance of anything decent. I'd rather wait until we have some defense and/or that granary finishes.

Just noticed this in that threadBarbarians:
--Player must not have Expansionist trait.
--There must not be a city within a 1-tile radius.
--The player must have at least 1 city.
--The player must have at least 1 military unit.
--The unit popping the hut must not have the "All Terrain As Roads" ability

So in other words, if we pop the hut by founding a city next to it, then we will get something decent.

Interesting. :wow: I never knew there was an entire science to popping huts...

I am almost positive they will pop on cultural expansion as well. I would like to save some barbs for sharpening our swords. :evil:

I am almost positive they will pop on cultural expansion as well. Yes they will but if there is no city in a 1-tile radius then the likelihood of barbs jumps from 0 to 65%. Since we are playing against humans, I'd rather get the techs, gold, or something less exciting than the above. (I don't think that we'll get a settler or city if there is a city already in the 1-tile radius.)

I mentioned this in the turnplay thread, but I think that we should consider planting the next city between the goodyhut and the second visible wheat tile, next to the river.

That placement would allow both production with the hill and food with the floodplain/wheat. Also, if Tubby is right, it would give us something posiitve with the goody hut.

I still vote for Dunderhead as its name.

Why such wide spacing CxxxC?

I like to have 1 turn coverage for cities.
Wouldn't city 2 (Dunder Head?) make sense on the FP tile 1S, 1E of the roaded FP wheat make sense first? Then city 3 could be on the non bonus grass 1S, 1W of the 2nd FP wheat would be CxxC from city 2. All this side of the river, good coverage, doesn't use BG's.

if planting next to the GH doesn't fit into our city spacing plan, then I say hold off on popping it. But if it can be worked in then it would be great to possibly get a free tech out before meeting our continent's other occupant.

Whomp, I am traditionally of the 'waste not want not' school of city planning, as little overlap as possible, hence the spot that accomplished that PLUS being next to the Goodyhut for a guaranteed benefitial popping.

If spacing is an issue, we could place it directly next to the GH and the two forest squares, that would place us in range of Simpleton.

I favor building a city there for the early popping of the goody hut, but I may change my opinion depending on what the layout of the country east of the floodplains looks like.

I am going to start a sticky thread for "City planning" where we can discuss this further.

Just a little FYI that I've learned recently. If for instance, you're scouting and you climb a mountain and see the edge of a border use shift-D instead of trusting the F4 advisor for diplo.
It will give you contact with that civ.

Just a little FYI that I've learned recently. If for instance, you're scouting and you climb a mountain and see the edge of a border use shift-D instead of trusting the F4 advisor for diplo.
It will give you contact with that civ.

Now THAT is a hany bit of info to have

I always use Shift + D anyway.

Diplomacy is a lot different in mutiplayer-games, isn't it? I've played Hotseat a few times, and from what I remember, you have to send a trade proposal on your turn, then the other person has to agree or negotiate on their turn, then you agree or negotiate further on your turn, etc...To get a tech, it could take several turns. :eek:

To get a tech, it could take several turnsNow that sucks. Might as well research it. I guess that this game will move slow enough for diplomacy via PM once we meet.

It is a little different on diplo. The way I see this working is negotiations will be by email and PM and hopefully agreed by the two parties before eithers next turn.
IE Team A and B agree to terms. On Team A's turn they send tech xxx and on team B's turn they send tech yyy in exchange and A accepts on the next turn and B accepts on theirs.

Maybe Barbu or an experienced PBEMer can confirm.

It is a little different on diplo. The way I see this working is negotiations will be by email and PM and hopefully agreed by the two parties before eithers next turn.
IE Team A and B agree to terms. On Team A's turn they send tech xxx and on team B's turn they send tech yyy in exchange and A accepts on the next turn and B accepts on theirs.

Maybe Barbu or an experienced PBEMer can confirm.

Yep, preaty mutch like that.

It takes a lot of planing to get things done the exact moment you connect a ressource of you discover a tech.

Don't count on an aggrement under 1 week.

Also for those who have not played PBEM, you can only see what you can offer to the other team, you canot see what they can offer you. So in the case you are behind, you don't know by how many techs. So you have to be carefull in diplo chat not to leak to mutch info.

A satelite view for the scouts....

Just thinking about the future...

Have we considered our ideal goals in diplomacy? By that I mean is it more prudent to make allies based on geography (what continent they are on) or for their strenghts (scientific culture) and the what they could provide us or their military (allies with Hopilites or Immortals).

I haven't made any conclusions, and I guess my default position was to find an ally on another continent, but then I got to thinking about fighting Immortals and, well, that made my colon clench and out came this line of questioning.

For those who have played these multiple player games, do you think this will turn into a two on two match, or will the diplomacy be more complex? How trustworthy are alliances in these games?

Now that I'm asking, how are tech trades advertised? Do we act like my grandma with a plate of fresh cookies "Who wants Iiiiiron Working?" and see what offers are made. Or will it be more like the guy on the street quietly offering to sell me stereo equipment?



KB

Or will it be more like the guy on the street quietly offering to sell me stereo equipment? This sounds like the way to move but hopefully we can sell the same stereo to 'em all. Good Q about who to ally with. I think the best alliences will be available for the civ that looks the strongest. If we build it, they will come. I imagine a final with 2 civs on each a continent which means the weak neighbour will be toast. If that be the case we should ally with weakest civ on opposing continent to even out the competition. My 2 cents.

I'm wondering if Peapants should head west a turn?

maybe, but I still think that we should be going in a carndinal direction (N, E, W, or S) due to the amount of land that is revealed each turn.

Why do you want to turn? I'd rather keep going 1 direction until we hit coast or another team. We are almost at the equator now and if it were an east-west continent, I would have thought that we would have seen water by now. Which leads me to believe that the continents are north-south.

But if west is the way the team wants to go then west it is. Let's just stick to one direction though.

No you're right Tubs keep heading south.
Could we send Joe head west to the river's edge or is MP smarter at this point?

I don't know about Joe. I would really like to keep him as MP due to exploring warriors from the other teams. We are the only team that has 1 city and 0 settlers which that will change soon. After we get a city or two out, pulling Joe from MP duty will be less risky.

I mentioned this in the City planning thread but since this is related to scouting too I'll mention it here.

2 NW of Peapants is an incense. We might want to send a settler to settled right on the jungle's edge to get that incense in our borders.

I would really like to grab more luxuries, but that incense is a long way from getting roaded to do any good. I think we may want to concentrate on our ring for now.

Although, now that I re-read Tubby's post, you didn't say WHEN to do that, so my post could be superfluous.

Oh well, I'm one post closer to a custom avatar...

I was thinking after the initial ring was settled. Send one down there with an escort as a place holder. It can pump workers out and those workers can work on the road back to civilization while everyone else focuses on improving the core.

I think Joe should explore west right after the settler comes out. Simpleton won't need MP, and we'll have another city, so not as much to fear from our neighbor. Or should Joe be an escort?

OK. Joe goes exploring. I don't think that we need him as an escort. With Dunderhead where New City #1 is, we will have advance warning of any scouting warrior. And if need be we could rush a spear in Simpleton.

Dunderhead's first builds should be warrior, warrior, barracks, warrior/archer, etc. I envision that Dunderhead is going to be our military capital. 2nd city (Slave Drivers Inc.) can build workers exclusively.

How's that sound?

2nd city (Slave Drivers Inc.) can build workers exclusively.

How's that sound?

Since we are anarchists I don't know how having slaves would work. Our motivating factor is our own self-interest/satisfaction, so we need people to WANT to lead lives of menial labor.

For that reason I'll propose we name the 3rd city "Intertech" of Office Space fame. Riiiiiight. That would be greaaaaat.

KB

Mkay...Does that work for everyone?

Yeah, sounds good :)

yeah, I'm fine. We're going to start needing some names. I'm not that good at coming up with them as you can see by my failed attempt.

In TR01 I named one city Smelly Horses (incense & horses in radius). Someone renamed it on their turns because they just couldn't take it any more. :shakehead:

We're going to start needing some names. I'm not that good at coming up with them as you can see by my failed attempt.

Don't worry Tubby, I'll mine the fertile crevices of my mind for those importnat, game-winning details like city names, curtain colors, etc. to wit:

On further reflection, we may want to name city 3 'Lumberg,' or if anyone owns the movie :coffee: I'm gonna need one of you to come in this weekend and find out how to spell that one guys name, not Michael Bolton, but the other guy. Alright? Greaaaaaat. Either of those has a better ring than 'Intertech' for the third city. Mkay? Greaaaaaat :coffee: Or maybe TSP, or Milton, I'll check with the Bobs...

Uh...it's Bill Lumbergh, mkay? Mr. Booti we'd like you to work the rest of the weekend figuring out names. Mkay? I kind of like Gump Forest too. Mkay?

Totally lost here. This has to be some tv-show that haven't crossed the ocean. I thought the stupid-theme was excellent. I'm longing to name a Celt city "Paris".

Totally lost here. This has to be some tv-show that haven't crossed the ocean.
I'm lost too Daghdha. I live in the U.S., but I never watch TV and Forrest Gump was probably the last movie I saw (how many years now since it came out?). I'm totally out of touch with pop culture...even my preferred music is classical, and I never recognize song or band names. I fit right in with a "stupid" theme. :p

The references above are from a movie called Office Space. Forest Gump ville would be good too. Or we could name it after his restaurant Bubba Gump

WOW! Thank you everyone in this forum for making a paunchy, rapidly balding thirty-something appear culturally hip :rockon:

Though in reality, I'm with gma, nothing goes better with an ocean-spaing military campaign than some Mahler, well maybe the finale movement of Copeland's 3rd...though Dvorak's 9th has its moments - uh oh - my true non-hip status is showing :eek:

nothing goes better with an ocean-spaing military campaign than some Mahler, well maybe the finale movement of Copeland's 3rd...though Dvorak's 9th has its moments - uh oh - my true non-hip status is showing :eek:
Anything by Dvorak is good, Brahm's symphonies and his 1st Piano Concerto. My fav for playing civ is Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet...lots of drama! :D

nothing goes better with an ocean-spaing military campaign than some Mahler Willie Nelson does ;-)))

Dag, its funny you mention my favorite tax protester. I'm a classical/jazz nut and I can't stand country music. That is what I told my (now) wife when we were dating, that was her understanding when she accepted my proposal.

She came home one day and I was listening to Willie Nelson - I thought she was going to kill me. I forgot to mention the caveats, I like Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash.

She didn't give up her grudge until I pointed out that my affinity for those two gents can't begin to compare to the American Idol CD she 'said' came in the mail by mistake, but that she has kept.

Besides your right; Willie (and for my money Johnny) have some Civ cache. After all in each of my games "I've got a long list of real good reasons for all the things I've done...and I could cry for the time I've wasted, but that's a waste of time and tears."

And I think that we have all had a game or two that "fell into a burning ring of fire..."

In conclusion all I can say is :rockon:

Brahm's symphonies and his 1st Piano Concerto.

Cool. Brahms is my favorite composer. I don't listen to his music while playing, I listen to Jesus Christ Superstar :D .

Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Willie Nelson and Russians.

Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry
Among my favs from my high school days. :eek:

Is that ocean or another river to the east? There's a hill to climb too.

It's swamp

Looks like we could benefit from an industrial neighbour clearing all that jungel for us. My line of thinking is we should expand more E-W than N-S and see if an eventual later attack can be pulled when things have "cleared up".

East-west expansion makes a lot of sense. Hard to pass up those dyes though. They may be the only ones on the planet.

We should go for the dyes. Too bad we can't get them in one city.

Don't forget about the incense at the top & bottom of the jungle. My guess is that we'll get the top and our neighbor will get the bottom.

I wouldn't get too distracted by the dyes, but if Dunderhead and Ignoramus are as effective at producing milityar/workers as Simpleton is settler, we may be able to afford a road/colony crew in the short to mid range game. After all - K.I.S.S. needs dyes to get its face paint ready...

We could rush two settlers:

1. to the dyes, the city would eventually take all the dyes when it expands. It could be a good worker factory in the future.

2. To the Icense on the southern border of the jungle.

I believe we should do that as quickly as possible ( when we have 4 or 5 cities in the north ) that way we could play a vital role in trade dont you think?

I havent read the entire thread, only the first and tha last page. :mischief:


Regarding our foreign policies ( FP ), how do you know that Grecce is on our continent? If that would be the case, the best way would be to sign an alliance with them:

A mutual protection pact consisting of:
-They do the research
-We give them money for the research, and build the army/fleet

I suggest this, casue any type of early war in the beginning would set us behind in regard to the other continent ( if we presume the worst case scenario that they'll have an alliance ) It would be very difficult to fight the hoplites until late middle ages ( and by then its generally visible who won the game )

In case if we shared the continent with Persia, the alliance could still work, but I would be catious with them, especially about their UU.

cheers


Tomasz

PS: Are there any governament positions in our team, like the foreign minister or defense minister etc?

Regarding our foreign policies ( FP ), how do you know that Grecce is on our continent?WE have to find them first. That's what Peapants' prime directive is. Secondary objective is to scout the continent.Are there any governament positions in our team, like the foreign minister or defense minister etc?No we're an anarchy :lol:

How about a little satelite view. Peapants told me he thinks there's some symmetry in this map. He left some food trail circles for you. He also thinks that hill might be a good idea to see if there's a river he can get a drink from and meet some people. Maybe more of that river symmetry thing too.

Nice pattern recognition Whomp. You must work the Merc or something. Hope you bought oil futures...

So is Peapants thinking that there's another civ S/W of where he's standing with the dyes mountain perhaps being the central point between the two civs?

I think Grandma's on to something. Listen to grandma - head for the hills, or in that general, SW direction.

So is Peapants thinking that there's another civ S/W of where he's standing with the dyes mountain perhaps being the central point between the two civs? That's what he told me.

Nice pattern recognition Whomp. You must work the Merc or something. Hope you bought oil futures...:hmm: Being long Merc shares and oil stocks hasn't hurt anyone either this year. ;)

I think we might want to consider settling near the dyes somewhere about city six or seven just to grab them.

Agreed Bugs. Luxs will be huge.
BTW the northern red circle is incense so I would plant there first.

I'm all for grabbing the two additional luxes, but settler 6 or 7 might be a bit late. Number 4 and 5 would increase our odds because I'm sure our neighbours will want them too.

Also, when war comes we need roads to the front... roading towards those luxes will be in the right direction hopefully.

That hill would be nice to bust some fog up... even if it's not south ;)

This may belong in the military forum, but here we go.

I think it would be nice to plant a warrior on the Painted Mountain (dyes), as an early warning system about luxury grabbers.

Can we afford to cut off a scout/MP that early?

I'd think 2nd or 3rd Dunderhead warrior could go do that. We need some defense at home. It's not as critical as it was before we started pumping settlers, but we still need a deterent from another team just walking into cities. But by that time we might have already grabbed them.

Also...

Thanks to Whomp's pattern recognition I think we have a good idea on where our neighbors are.

Two questions...

1) How confident are we in the symetry of the geography?

Assuming a high degree of confidence...

2) How do we take advantage of what I am assuming is early info on our opponents positions?

Should we shift our city planting to meet them (west) or to avoid them (east). Do we flood scouts in a SW direction to stake out our positions/make our presence known? Should we have a ring settling scheme or a forward deployment plan, relying on roads and Galic Swordman's mobility?

Also, IF the planet is symetrical, and IF the continents are more or less mirrors of one another, I would assume that crossable points from one to anohter would be about the same distant from each civ. Making those assumptions my thought would be that the crossing point for our southern neighbor would be on the west coast and ours would be on the east.

When we get curraghs I would send our first to the east.

So many questions.

After a post like this I think of Henry Kissinger's words...

"It is the duty of [leaders] not to recognize complexities but to resolve them."

This post humbly submitted by an avowed sheep...

KB

I'm not that confident that the symmetry is all that exact. There might be some just to balance out the starting position, but I doubt that it will be a perfect mirror. One reason is that we are just now at the equator and are also below the midline of the symmettrical pattern that Whomp found. Unless the continent is skewed north of the equator then it's not a perfect mirror.

With that being said, I think that it is something to be taken into account.

There are some differences but Rik created a balanced map and the other civ would have 4 turn settler type terrain just like us. We are approaching that type of landmass.

The other thing is, with my simple mind, with the four dyes surrounding that mountain Rik looked for a land grab with the two civs on the continent. It kind of tells me that each of us are equidistant to the dyes. There are four dyes (not one like incense) and in my view the only dyes. That type placement was for a reason. It doesn't seem to be coincidence to me.

True, true.

Go for the goodies! Go for the goodies! :bounce:

The other thing is, with my simple mind, with the four dyes surrounding that mountain Rik looked for a land grab with the two civs on the continent. It kind of tells me that each of us are equidistant to the dyes. There are four dyes (not one like incense) and in my view the only dyes. That type placement was for a reason. It doesn't seem to be coincidence to me.

The above (emphasis added) is sine dubio the most significant.

Conclusions: the only tradeable surplus oin this continent. Control of all four will be HUGE.

I think we need to make the dyes city one of our top priorities or at least set up a block.

Perhaps we should start talking about what we should do when we meet another civ. It seems one of the teams has met one of the other teams. I'm not exactly sure how this works in a Demo game or in a PBEM.

It depends on what we and they have. :)

We can also include longer peace treaty, if one is stronger and the other has techs.

Here is my assorted musings on what to do when we meet CivX on our cont.

Our neighbours are Greek
Their military strenght is defense with Hoplites. They will probably be eager to sign a longer peace deal and then to support each other to build a stronger "continent" than the 2 opponents have. Sice we will be faster in expansion this would be beneficial for us. We would be wise to avoid attacking Greece without a considerable amount of Swords. Being bigger than Greece is also good when negotiating. They're commercial and will be in the tech frontline if left alone. When it is time to grab more land, before they have muskets, a nice deal may be available if we manage to swarm them with GS's. That would also mean we get a GA when in rep/mon. If we're confident enough we can slow down tech pace in midway AA and save gold for mass upgrading warriors. We can trade luxes (very useful in this scenario) for techs. We can also agree on researching different paths and then trade techs.
Conclusion: Accept a peace deal that covers AA. Stay out of trouble to save the GA. Aid Greece in science and focus on a peaceful expansion.

Our neighbours are Persian
They will be on their watch knowing all others want to see them whacked. Their military strenght is early wars with the troublesome Immortals. they know that military alliances are weak before sea transports can carry any significant amount of troops. Thus, they might figure they can handle an early attack on us even if we ally with others. On the other side, they may be interested in protection and a long term peace with us. Again our faster REX can serve us well. I would prefer a peace deal where we can outexpand them peacefully before attacking in late AA. If they deny signing peace we can infer they want to go the war path. In that case a sign up with MIA and D-nuts are important. Writing and embassies should be high priority if that be the case. This may be the best scenario for us. We will be in a good position to take control over our continent if MIA and D-nut join in whacking TNT. Of course they, MIA and Nuts, are aware of that. They are probably reluctant to aid in creating a monster Celt nation so we will be forced to throw in a lot of goodies to make it work. Hopefully their animosity towards the un-official persian leader works in our advantage.
Conclusion: Go for peace treaty on same grounds as with Greece. If denied, sign up with others to whack Persia.

Iros are our neighbours:
This is IMO the trickiest scenario. I would prefer to cooperate with this lot sice they have some really crafty war mongerers in the ranks. A close alliance and an AA peace deal would be great. Then we could agree on a, late AA, joint campaign against other continent to make lebensraum. My guess is we will have Nuts with us in an attack on Persia :) . If we share Persia, MIA will be caught between a rock and a very hard place. If they want to make immediate use of the MW we might be in some trouble. I'll leave to military HQ to handle such a scenario.
Conclusion: Again, peace is to be prefered. If we can expand graciously, without snatching too much goodies, we might have a great friend in the Iros.
They will also be interested in not triggering their GA until rep/mon. Futher expansion should take place on opposing continent.

Summary: As stated elsewhere, everything is to benefit from peace through most of AA. the strenght of our agri trait goes well with a peaceful expansion and if we are allowed to build up GS's throughout this era they will come in full use at the appropriate time, i.e. before enemy has Muskets but after we have rep/mon.
MPP's will not be available until nationalism so that's out of the question. Some early emassies would be good 'thou so we can sign embargos or MA's if neccesary. We are wise to keep Persia on an armslenght knowing other teams prolly wants to whack them.

So as it turns out, our neighbours are the Greeks. Here's the Greek diplo screen and some information from the various advisors, copied from the other thread cos I realized it fits better here:

Military advisor says our military is weak compared to them.
Foreign advisor says they are impressed with our culture and that they're annoyed with us.
Science advisor knows that we're technologically advanced.
F8 screen tells that they're at 2% area, 16% population. We're at 2/29.

I can make a pretty strong case that no one went for the Philo sling.

These are the 4 most important things in this game.
1. REXing--Requires Persians and Greeks research pottery first. My guess is they both started down this path.
2. Military--Iroquois have none so going philo doesn't seem to be in their best interest. It would leave them extremely vulnerable. So they'd have to research BW, WC or go for their UU wheel and HBR the way I see it. The other two are probably set in this area starting with spears and hoplites. Persians may go IW after Pottery and I think Greeks may have gone writing after pottery since they are less concerned about attackers.
3. Contacts--Greeks and Iroquois have the edge with early curraghs possibly going out right now. Let's hope they are on different continents.
4. Governments--I don't see anyone wanting to research CB so it's our monopoly. However it is still required by everyone along with the other two to get out of the AA so it's more valuable than we may think.
Also our edge because we can change governments anytime we want and they can't. The other teams must research the bottom half of the path at some point but I don't think it's a priority right now. Maybe after they have filled in some of the other requirements they will so maybe we can wait on the myst research until we make contacts.

1, 2. Looks like they didn't choose pottery. Why? They have strong defenders and start with BW. I guess they want some offense and went for IW and swords. If that be the case they're planning on taking land by force rather than by REX'ing peacefully and we will both have IW soon. Other possibility is they did choose the philo sling.
3. They probably didn't start an early curragh but can send one out before us if not already under way.
4. Obviously they have left the lower path be for now. It's our monopoly so far.

Maybe we should offer them IW when in and see what they're willing to trade. A good bid suggests they're going philo. If they'rer reluctant, they may soon have it done themselves.
A nice peace deal and mutual research program would be the best methinks. At the end of AA we will have the most offensive power anyway and any aggression could be postponed until then.

I would assume they went for the slingshot, hoping to trade for pottery. We're another 3 turns away from IW, but if they really wanted pottery bad, we could even get alpha for pots and CB? They wouldn't even need to know we have WC yet. :) Of course in the interest of creating confidence and having a working long-term relationship it might be worthwhile to be a little more open.

Great news!!
What you see in the trade screen means absolutely nothing. We will never see what is on the other side of the diplo screen.

OK we need to draw something up.

We will never see what is on the other side of the diplo screen. What we will see is what isn't, right?

I would assume they went for the slingshot, hoping to trade for pottery. We're another 3 turns away from IW, but if they really wantedTE=Nikodemus] pottery bad, we could even get alpha for pots and CB? They wouldn't even need to know we have WC yet. :) Of course in the interest of creating confidence and having a working long-term relationship it might be worthwhile to be a little more open.

Sounds like an interesting option. If we can get alphabet that way, and can put something more on the table for writing (assuming they are researching that), we might cooperate on the republic slingshot. We could even consider funding their research to crank it up to maximum capacity to make sure the other continent does not get the free tech.

Agreed Crakie. This way once they are finished we can research CoL (more expensive) while they crank out philo for a sling. I can see no way there others can finish before us by popping those early settlers.

We just need to coordinate finishes. The other thing that is nice is if we can get alpha we our timing on our coastal city will be perfectly timed.

How would we fund their research? Just give them cash? That takes a lot of trust. Can we trust these guys?

One way to fund their research is to offer luxes so they can keep lux-slider down. I would prefer that so we can gather cash for the forthcoming warrior upgrade. They can research for us, we can cover luxes for them ;) . That would save us both money and benefit us the most when it's :hammer:-time.

I haven't looked at the previous 5 pages, but are we gonna pick a friend and decide who should research what tech then trade with eachother?

One way to fund their research is to offer luxes so they can keep lux-slider down. I would prefer that so we can gather cash for the forthcoming warrior upgrade. They can research for us, we can cover luxes for them ;) . That would save us both money and benefit us the most when it's :hammer:-time.That pre-supposes that we grab more luxes then they do. That dyes city certainly takes on greater significance.

@Bugs
I'm positive we will, 100% positive.

Here's our satelite view....

Now that we are going to have a curraph in 2 turns which way should it go???

My vote is west. That way Ave Joe doesn't have to scout the northern coast as well and we can get him back for settler escort ASAP.

West is as good as anything.

Admiral - are you ready to assume command of your navy? :D

I would agree on west, especially since we can see a portion of east already but nothing west of the northern wines, and it always frustrates me to have a curragh paralleling the same territory as the scout. I leave it to the more knowledgable amongst us as to whether Avg Joe needs to escort or explore in a more S/W-ish direction than the curragh is likely to go. :)

It seems like barbs should have shown up by now, but then it also seems like we've been playing long enuf to be in the Industrial Age too. :lol:

Hmm, I vote east, I think. That appears to be the coast, so if we go that way and find one of the safe crossings to the other continent, getting contact would be that much sooner.

I think we can send our warrior SE of Dunderhead one more turn east then, he'll have to start heading SW to rendevous with the settler.

Edit - wait that was based on a old picture.

Edit 2 - OK, I'm a dope. I can't find the save so I can take a snapshot of the east branch of the Simpleton River. So just ignor this whole rant.

Curragh go west Adm.Kutzov. The look of the southern coast line gives me the impression the crossing points are @ NW and SE corner of out cont.

Off to the NE of Simpleton looks like a possiblity.

@ Dagh - I liked your old avatar better. This on is OK, but the other one rocked.

@Bugs
Which one? There's been heavy traffic lately. Besides, this rat will soon get shades then he'll be a Way Cool Dude :cool:.

I preferred the old avatar too, Dagh...the yellowish one. It looked sorta like a male version of The Mona Lisa, and I kept staring at it in an effort to decide if it was smiling, contemplating, or what...very enigmatic. :D

@ bugsy - navy :bounce: navy :bounce: <bede inserts some double entendre here>

dagh - The one Harriet is referring to. I thought it was very enigmatic as well.

Edit - this one looks like a reindeer. I mean the one that looks like a Rembrandt.

dagh - the one that looked like it was built for the first nintendo

Do you guys realize the old Daghdha avatar was the real Daghdha? The dude had a eight pronged war club on a wheel. Who wouldn't want one of those?!?!
The new Daghdha has sunglasses. It fits the new cool hand Dagh.

Seems there's some concern about Peapants. :lol:

The natural river boundry.... Is that as far as they'd like to expand???

I think that we should tell them that the river is also our natural boundry and that there wandering warrior should go back home. :pissed: :lol:

These guys are idiots.

Can we move that curraph any quicker!!!

These guys are idiots. Hold it now my friend. We're the Idots here :crazyeye: , they are just....dunno, is scared and defensive it maybe?

Look at it this way. Peapants negotiated horses for our people. Give the guy a medal!!!

I think we need to reiterate to them that giving them a monopoly tech with CB it gives them the opportunity to A. trade it overseas and B. the potential for a SGL on myst research. That was awfully nice of us to give them that opportunity and one we could have easily taken advantage of ourselves. However since we would like to be cooperative and felt the fastest way to a republic was to have us research writing while they finished wheel. A considerable concession since they made us pay 1gpt to accomplish our alleged joint mission. :rolleyes:

This would be nice to communicate to them in a diplomatic manner. Sharpen your pen Whompie.

Hmm, if we made the deal of not going south of the river, we could hold off on the Dyes city for now. :hmm:

I don't see why they're afraid of one warrior in the first place, though.

I know now why he was skeered.. Well I don't know about south of the river but could we go east of it??

I suggest going E one more time then kill off his barbs for 25 G!!

Ave Joe has found beavers!!! and the north west coast. The orange dot is a mountain but isn't shown in CA2. I took a couple of in-game screen shots but they were corrupted and I didn't think it proper to replay it just to get a screenie.

The spot where Avg. Joe is standing could be a decent fishing village with expansion. 2 fish, iron, wines and minks.

I would rather plant one NW. That way a city can be planted 1 SW of W of the GH. BTW, I believe I saw an inkling of another fur 1 SW of GH.

But if we settle where Panda suggested, we'll be able to get another city NE of the wines (the wines N of the Iron, not W).

Unless we'll go OCP, which I don't think it's a good decision.

Edit: I'm confusing left and right ... Now fixed, I hope.

One NE of the wines, another one NW of Avg. Joe and one to claim the furs seems good to me. Should give access to iron as well, without expansions.

Always wanted a purple muskrat coat.

Nice work TR and scouting gang.

Crakie's settlement plan does a nice job filling that space.

I'll get it on CA2 for your viewing pleasure tomorrow.

Always wanted a purple muskrat coat.


for a furry chariot ride? :lol:

Western coast

MIA territory

Should we tell them that we are going to take care of their barb problem?

Do they know where we are?

They do now since we can see into their territory then they can see us.

EDIT:: My opinion is that we tell them BEFORE their turn comes up. So they don't get freaked out.

I think we should tell them.

They can see our warrior, but do they now our territory location?

We should tell them and we should pop the camp since we could use the extra gold right about now.

No pentium they don't know where our cities are.

I garee Whomp. 7 gold doesn't last too long with -2gpt.

Rename the warrior to Billy Joe or Bobby Sue then 'take the money and run.'

They got the money, hey You know they got away
They headed down south and they're still running today
Singin' go on take the money and run
:woohoo:

FYI::::I just figured up where the MIA warrior should be if he went due north every turn. On dye mountain.

I like that smiley Whomp, :woohoo:

Are we tech partners with MIA now? I wonder if the other continent will be that creative. We could get a massive tech lead with the 1+1=3.

technically no but we are working towards that. The problem is that they traded for pots with the Iroq, so they backed out of that deal without even telling us.

FYI::::I just figured up where the MIA warrior should be if he went due north every turn. On dye mountain.

I like that smiley Whomp, :woohoo:I wonder if they have sent a scout due north from their lands. If so then we should see one of their guys to our south very soon.

Joe has done some scouting on the W coast. Pic of the continental gap, if my guess is right, is in the cartograph room.

On turn 38 our settler party runs into some spices

And The Gap @ turn 38

Those spices are yummy

keep in mind they "owe" us in return for not popping the hut. I would think a request for change of direction on a scout would fufill their obligation

Indeed, good idea, we can keep some of the map for ourselves can't we ?

Here's an updated pic of the western gap.

Also looking at the save in CA2, it looks like the spices next to the mountain are in the same configuration as the dyes. probably is 4 spices surrounding a mountain.

Might send not the next settler but the one after that to the spices.

With the factory up and ticking, yes, we can alter btw core cities and far away objects. Another high priority is the western gap for military strategics. 1:st our side of it, then the other. How beautiful it would be to have a raxed landing point there. I would have a settler to jump in a pre-build galley as soon as MM is in.

Here is a map with the cities that I could plan on there.....I have the same map with the city radii ticked on in the City planning thread here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3120448&postcount=112)

EDIT:: I did move the one by the mountain range to be on a hill instead of a grassland.

Should we start thinking about bringing peapants northwards to scout the vast E-S-E of our land that's unexplored? I know going east is good and will help us in the future, but you know, I just thought I'd bring it up to be a hassle and shake threads a bit

Yes, it looks like we're just waiting for the sun to come up and burn off the fog. :p

How about Dunderhead's warrior? Should we peel him off for scouting over there?

Ignoramus has a barb camp near him so he's out.

Peapants won't be able to get up there before we need to know what's there.

I'd say scouting is of less importance than mp and defence from Barbie. We have enough land area un-fogged to decide where to settle for quite some time. We know where iron is and goats will prolly pop up in the cleared area. I expect ivory to be a wee bit E of Igno but we don't need to actually see it yet. If Joe keeps scouting the W area i'd say we have the E one fairly well scouted too.

Ok will change the todo with one more vote

We have enough land area un-fogged to decide where to settle for quite some time. Yup, that's why Peapants looked reasonable to me.If Joe keeps scouting the W area i'd say we have the E one fairly well scouted too.That's where I beg to differ: we have a coast, we sent a boat, that's pretty much it. covering more ring 1-2 land is more pressing IMIO.

What about Ignoramus building a warrior after this worker and sending him scouting? I'd love to know what's there, and if its a short trip we have an MP.

What about Ignoramus building a warrior after this worker and sending him scouting? I'd love to know what's there, and if its a short trip we have an MP.we're also trying to get a granary in Ignoramus and another warrior would delay that out a good bit.

That's where I beg to differ: we have a coast, we sent a boat, that's pretty much it. covering more ring 1-2 land is more pressing IMIO. But Igors Hope is covering the north coast of the other cont and will tell us zip about our own. My reasoning is since the map is mirrored we will find on the E half the same (in location) as on the W.

So our light green friends got themselves a new lil village....

Here's our advancement on the N coast of Our next continent ;) . Good thing is TNT are far from settling their side of The Gap.

It also appears our light green friends are going with a very tight build. Those two cities are only three tiles apart. They are most definitely taking a defensive (AW-type) stance. The good thing is that once a tight build starts to crumble, it will crumble very quickly.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/MTDG/MTDG44_Hmm.jpg

H'mm. Inneresting, no.

It looks like it is roaded, isn't it? To the right of that iron deposit it looks like a brown criss cross that's a road.

But the road leads to nowhere, looks like the US Congress is in charge of their highway projects

What's also interesting is the city is in between the fish and the iron and doesn't seem like there's a river running through.

Are u sure the iron is not connected. My guess is that the tile sw of it is indeed roaded but out of our clear sight...

I think you're right Dagh and it will become apparent once the city is uncovered on the next turn.

I believe it is connected, we just can't see it because the adjacent tiles are under FoW.

It is definitely connected. If you haven't seen the city yet, the tile with a road doesn't continue into the fog. It looks like it just ends there.

Besides, it has to be connected, since the city has to be right next to that roaded iron.

It has to be connected, for the reasons IP just mentionned

It sounds as though the evil empire sent out a first boat and found us. If there is any worry of a landing I would suggest posting a warrior on the mountain top to watch for a possible invasion.

How are we on our 2nd-3rd circle radius exploration? The hut secretary kindly requested a report from me on this matter, with a whip and several pry-bars yesterday.

Here is the map... sorry about the size but it's a big world

EDIT:: moved to the Cartography room

Here is a close up of our core.... Our settler will settle next turn and the smaller line width in the pic above shows what the borders will be after that town is settled. Another settler is coming this turn. I propose that it goes on the river to the east

EDIT:: moved to the cartography room

I propose that it goes on the river to the eastagree :) thanks for the map! any chance for a minimap superimposed on the zoomed out images?

Can we also moves these maps to the Cartography room. Gracias.

Indeed, that SE river spot looks promising. Thanks Tubs :goodjob:

Yes I'll move them tomorrow morning.

EDIT:: moved to the cartography room
This would be wonderful... if they were actually in the cartography room. :hmm:

They are here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3138155&postcount=19) and here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3138157&postcount=20)

I didn't post new messages. I just edited an old post since I already had the last two posts. Sorry about the cornfusion.

Thanks. Must be part of the power of being stupid. :rolleyes:

I think we need to send the warrior heading north from Greece on the east coast back to the south. He can bust some fog around Greece.