Anything goes here.

Would it be at all possible to bag this with a 20K :crazyeye: ? I think of it as the least expected choise of victory to persue. IIRC I have never finished a 20K myself so I'm not sure about the speed of it but judgeing by HoF scores it's a late game affair. Entermonster will be huge fast but has only 2 hills for shields so it might not be the best 20K city, but coast for Colossus and a fast pop12 will give a nice start. Next city by the river could be our set fac for a while.
I assume it will force us to a line of reasoning and a strat that is a bit hard to figure for opponents. If we focus on a peaceful expansion we might also avoid the dreadful AA Gold Age. Since barbs are on we could even make it work in our advantage if we gamble on "saving" a GH to pop with a GS after rep/mon is in. This would mean we strive to ally with our neighbour instead of whacking them. If we can convince them about the benefits of working together vs the other continent we might be able to get a 20K monster ticking before they know what happened.
The Monarch path (+BW->IW) suddenly seems very interesting :)

20K would create the largest dogpile at our capital's doorstep we've ever seen. There would not be one team out there that wouldn't want that city. The cost of building would be astronomical. Humans ain't that stupid.

100K would be a more likely possibility like Celts in SGOTM7. This simply means conquering ICS style with lots of pop rushed temples, libs, unis and caths. Despotism to feudalism to communism. Whomever builds the pyramids (if it even gets built) would need to be enemy #1.

Humans ain't that stupid. Have you looked at our opponents rosters :lol: . Well, I guess you're right. 100K would be interesting too. That would be playing our trait.
I just looked at Doug's first turns. Their starting position was rather ugly it seems but my god what a lot of salt they will have if they stay alive til powder!

Celts in SGOTM7
:confused: The Celts were in SGOTM7? You sure?

:confused: The Celts were in SGOTM7? You sure?
6? 7? See what happens you get old.

100K is a verra, verra interesting possibility.

I'll go with 100k.

Haven't done a 100K in my life, it's too much like milking to me. But I would welcome the experience.

Saving gold for upgrade is crucial beeing Celts so maybe we should consider pointy stick and bank up for a mass upgrade? In meantime we whip 1/2 priced temples and build warriors. With a GS S.o.D. we could do fine without leading in tech, at least until muskets. A massive attack in late AA, having loads of culture, we could bully techs out of our neighbour.
This would mean (1) full speed science BW-IW to claim iron, then a laid back (cheap) stroll towards Monarchy while gathering Gold, (3) building 10s warriors and (4) whipping discount temples. When we hit :king: , we should have cash enough to up our warriors. Probably our neighbour has pursued the upper tech tree and has some goodies to offer. We then go to work with our GS's and trigger a monarchy GA.
Sounds solid, huh?
I also come to think about Bro Bedes point that 6 defending warriors always holds a city against 5 attackers. We could have loads of warriors and fight a possible aggression with numbers, at least for a while. Building a tight 100K town-o-rama would go fine with this, nicht wahr?

NO need to whip temples in the core for a 100K. You want to make the inner core most powerful early and whipping carries population cost. Third ring and out is where the whip comes in.

Otherwise pretty solid, if we were playing against AI. Human opponents change the equations in ways I have barely begun to scope out.

I'm sure you're right about where (and when) to whip. Ision didn't mention anything about that in his review of celts, and that is where I got the idea of general plan.

I think we should befriend the Greeks. Those hoplites are tough. Attack the other continent first, maybe? I now think 100k is a bad idea, we'll have to count culture for 100 turns so slowly because its a PBEM, when we could just build another city for domination.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it likely that others would dogpile a civ that is marching ->Dom? They would at least be halted while needing to expand further. If we go 100K and have enough tiles, we could also be dogpiled (like any team running off to any VC), but we would keep getting closer to victory by just holding ground and letting time do the work. I've never done a 100K so I'm no expert so have mercy on my reasoning ;) .

We pretty much have to be at the domination limit to get 100k (actually it's 80k IIRC).

100k in this game is 80k right?
Is a diplo win disabled?

I wouldn't go for diplo. If someone builds the UN, we can talk with other teams to help make the vote inconclusive.

By Whomp's reasoning it would seem any civ that is close to any kind of victory will get dogpiled. How does this effect things? Should we then focus even more strongly on military? Diplomacy and deceptive strategy are probably the most powerful tools in this game.

I think military is the answer. If you're strong, they can try to dogpile you, but can't. I think we should make a lot of GS then research peacefully.

The city names. I hope y'all don't mind if I named our first city Simpleton. Seemed...uh..Simple. Let's think of new names for the future. Everyone should have their favorite named for them. Hehe...

I like the idea of using 100K (or is it 80K) as one victory condition. It would catch them all by surprise without a question.
I think we can work towards both domination and 100K because the religious trait will allow us to switch governments so easily. In 100K's the pop rush, as Bede said, in remote cities is huge. We may have to consider feudalism for a short period for the rushing. Commie for sure. I can't see how anyone would vote for another team in a diplo win unless there was some serious bad blood with 2 dominant teams and one weak team that would tilt the vote.

Diplo is impossible, if two teams are candidates, the others can plan to each vote for one, making it inconclusive.

If there are 3, the one that's not a candidate can abstain.

I do not think 80K is the way to go. To get to that you pretty much have to go ICS city spacing which means 200+ cities on this size map. Will you be able to defend against Humans with that kind of layout? I know many of you could do so easily against the AI but Humans are a different beast.

Otherwise pretty solid, if we were playing against AI. Human opponents change the equations in ways I have barely begun to scope out. This we have to muse on. Regarding VC's, is there one that is better considering human opposition? As mentioned before, any top civ getting close to any VC will be dogpiled. Only way to get around that is minimizing the pile by killing the dogs off, i.e. conquest/dom-ish. I like the 80K scenario mostly because it would be somewhat unexpected and that's good in itself. Team members more experienced with 100K's are better suited to argue on pros/cons in this particulare game.
I also think, regarding the quote, that we should not underestimate the importance of knowledge in playing against humans. I judge MIA to be the most experienced in that department so they should be watched carefully. They will certainly try to pull off deals that looks nice from a "vs AI"-view, but could be real crap. They know we're used to AI "reasoning" and will try to use that against us. If our, possibly, most skilled diplo barely has begun to scope out the human factor this could/will be crucial.

Something to muse upon then.

Make a long term mutual support pact with a nation with a complementary UU (Greece?) Could include such things as mutual research support, support in warfare, resource city swapping (you need spices, we need incense kind of thing). This would allow both of us to play against the opponents in a way that would not be all that obvious until the showdown.

The nice thing about an 80K victory is that it looks a lot like Domination or Conquest until you hit criticial mass then it becomes a sandbag. Is there enough space on the map to make it work?

I still warn against spreading yourself to thin. There is no way to effectivly defend 200+ cities against humans until the advent of rails and you will have needed a majority of those cities placed before rails become available.

We all know that it is very possible to do against the AI but a well place sneek attack could end up wiping out a whole bunch of cities. (Think SoD of Cav's cavorting around your ICS cities)

I presume that in the ruleset somewhere there is a rule limiting the use of placing a unit on every tile surrounding your home continent (but honestly I've not read them all) as from what I've read on other PBEM's this is pretty standard in the ruleset.

?Anyway I Guess in short if you are planning on getting really close to domination to then stop and ICS and play the waiting game of Culture I wonder why not to just tip the scales and go for Domination.

As always the Mistfit analysis is sound. Still thinking.

I presume that in the ruleset somewhere there is a rule limiting the use of placing a unit on every tile surrounding your home continent (but honestly I've not read them all) as from what I've read on other PBEM's this is pretty standard in the ruleset. Read through the stickied rulset and found nada on "island defense".
I appreciate the point of tipping the scales -> dom. How far into the game will it be possible to make a sound estimate on required tiles to dom/80K? If one calls for a late game over seas invation and the other not, the choise is pretty clear, but I guess 80K must be decided on way before we get that info, right?
I take it staying alive and well until rails & commie is avaliable is the key to 80K success. If you do that you can sandbag your way to victory.
Since the island defense is allowed (by the looks of the rulset) we could get around that. A late AA massive wipe-out with GS's to clear the continent, then filling the coastline and just grow peacefully.
Sweet dreams that is...

This is tough, you can't do anything without being dogpiled.

A little analysis:

Diplo - right out
Conquest - Nearly impossible
Domination - Pretty hard against humans
20K - Talk about being the focus of a dogpile, plus we'd probably see wonder denial tactics
80K - You aren't going to sneeak up on too many humans with the victory conditions screen, plus ICS is a recipe for disaster.
Space - probably the only viable option if we have the required resources.

80K - You aren't going to sneeak up on too many humans with the victory conditions screen, plus ICS is a recipe for disaster. OK, let's for arguments sake say that there was a way to hide our intentions until rails and commie is available. What's the cost of having 75 settlers hiding in the cities? Do they cost upkeep? They could explode and turn a perfectly nice set up for an SS into an ICS just like that.
I believe one of the cool things with this is to weigh different alternatives for a long term strat so have patience with my sometimes far fetched plans. I do know that the most important foundation for success is noble art of MM, but I leave most of that to those better suited (I'm no "Beautiful Mind" :lol: ).
So follow me on this trip:
AA is about a decent growth and covering iron as #1 prio. If we have that and about 50% of continent,we can have good relations with our cont. neighbour. We research full speed -> IW to settle the iron, then go moderate towards Monarchy (save some gold). We don't have to hook up the iron but just be sure of having it when time comes to up the warriors we're building in meantime. We should aim for a mutual trade partner in the strongest civ on other continent. If we can trade research, agreeing on different paths, that's cool and cost efficient. To make them believe we want a space race with them would be perfect. Our city spacing could at this point be perfectly normal á lá CXXXC. We cannot sign MPP with them until nationalism, but we can agree on joining a wipe out move on our respective neighbours. That could mean a pre set number of troops sent over seas and a promise to make no claim on captured cities on opposite continent + pulling out our/their troops asap when mission accomplished. The timing of "cleaning the continent" would be late AA, after monarchy is in but before muskets. If, and I stress if, we manage to divide the world into 2 monsters with 1 cont each, we could then focus on fastest way to IA beelining to ToG and magnetism. If we can get demo for faster workers, fine for future railing. While doing this, pretending to be a space race civ, we start building settlers. When steam is in we, of course, rail our guts out. This time not focusing on railing the core first, but connecting the realm for defense purpouses. While doing this we go straight to communism. When commie is in and the cities connected, we set out the settlers and launch a 1 turn ICS all over our continent. From there on we focus purely on defense and whipping cult. Now our opponent knows our intention no doubt, but they're probably behind in cult and have only conq/dom or SS as alternatives. Possibly they won't be able to do a sea invasion at this point so only way is running for a space launch. Thing is they have to do all their research on their own and if we declare, fully railed and red, they will have to go commie or fascist too. How fast will that go? We have no hurry in researching except for keeping up defense-wise. We water our land and whip out required units, population beeing our "gold".

:D or :( or just :crazyeye: ?

There's always a Histographic win. Although, even with that, you're still susceptible to a dogpile. :rolleyes:

Attaboy, though settlers do cost upkeep, really no need to hide too many, just be positioned to rush a bunch when the time comes.

As an Agri nation you only need one irrigated grassland for the ICS towns, cap them at 6 food and pop3, so the placement thing is not a problem as you can sqeeze then in and still keep productivity up.

I love your enthusiasm Daghie.

However the biggest problem with this philosophy is you miss the opportunity to get double culture points if you wait till commie to start. The way I see it we'd need to be done with our culture builds very early for that victory condition. Temples, libs, caths have to be pop rushed (outside of the core) in the AA and MA to get there and the pyramids would have to be a requirement for the pop rushing. Holding settlers and culture buildings would cost lots of cash too.

I think the biggest benefit of our religious trait will come from the short anarchy turns and even some culture pressure on the outskirts where needed.

I think our earliest chance for victory will be domination but as Bugs said space seems to be the most likely VC.

I think any VC is impossible without being dogpiled, so I guess we've got to just overpower the dogpiles.

What city spacing? CxxC with occasional CxC, CxxC with occasional CxxxC, or CxxxC with occasional CxxC?

you miss the opportunity to get double culture points if you wait till commie to start True, but does that mean it is not possible? Waaaay too much arithmetics for me to figure.

you miss the opportunity to get double culture points if you wait till commie to startIIRC, the X-Team in SGOTM6 didn't get much culture until they reached the dom limit. So the doubling thing didn't matter for them.... They won the PTW/vanilla competition. here's the culture graph from SGOTM6


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/sgotm_graph_2.png

I think the key point is X-Team approached the dom limit first.

We placed 3rd and had completely open borders at the end and if the Indians wanted they could've easily walked in whenever they pleased. In fact, without the Indians funding our economy we would've been in disband mode and still struggled at the end by putting cities on wealth and disbanding military. A problem many teams encountered IIRC. I doubt any human team will help us in this fashion.
Both CDZ and Offa made the pyramids a priority and got it. We screwed that up. The AI will build wonders but I'd be surprised if any of these teams will attempt one without a SGL except maybe SoZ.

I am all for going cultural if the team thinks we can pull it off but I really see a 20K as an easier option.

The AI will build wonders but I'd be surprised if any of these teams will attempt one without a SGL except maybe SoZ.So should we go for a couple of wonders? I doubt that wonder-lust is completely gone from the other teams. I forsee a pyramid race as well (at least).

I'm the wrong guy to ask. My wonder lust was cured after chieftain :D but it's a team decision.
IMO a 20K is stealthier and easier to protect than a 80K so if we go the culture route I'd lean that way.

I said this before and saying this again, this game will probably not reach the industial age. The objective is to kill the other civs usign more diplomacy skills than civ skills. I realy doubt any other victory conditions will happen. Any 2 civs can take out 1.

I said this before and saying this again, this game will probably not reach the industial age. The objective is to kill the other civs usign more diplomacy skills than civ skills. I realy doubt any other victory conditions will happen. Any 2 civs can take out 1.Thanks Barbu. It's nice to have someone who has experienced many PBEM games chime in.

So do we need to strongly ally with other civs ASAP in order to not get under the dogpile?

So do we need to strongly ally with other civs ASAP in order to not get under the dogpile?

Exacly.
According to the rules, you may not speak about the game until you meet them in the game. But contact finding will probably be primordial in a 4 player game.
We must be the first ones to propose a dogpile on the other one(s).

Think of the game as survivor in the final 4 without the immunity chalenges. No body will want to be out, so they will ally with the first one who will promisse to kick their but.

I'm afraid you're all right Barbu. The boring thing is all teams will reason exactly the same and there will be no place for surprises....but if we built the ToA and...

....but if we built the ToA and...You just don't give up do you :lol: I'm starting to lean to 20k if we go culture. Defending 1 city as opposed to every city is a heck of a lot easier.

...and with all those cities we can hold a small army and when attacked, we draft and...k-bang, we have 200 defenders :cool: .

we draft and...k-bang, we have 200 defenders Assuming this game makes it to nationalism....I'll stop being critical. I think that barbu's comment about any 2 civs can wipe out a 3rd is the most dramatic statement that should be effecting our VC planning (or any other planning for that matter).

well, sorry guys for my silence...
im getting forgetful these days.

my motto is "Do it onto them, before they do it onto you".
my guess is we will have to hit them hard and furious, doing whatever we can.

reading the posts and will elaborate later, when im upto date.

I'll stop being critical I'll stop naggin' about the 80K. I can satisfie my cult needs with the Indians in GOTM instead........but still

There's a guy who would like to know all the team leaders.

I wanted to write back to him our governmental philosophy with a little humour. Here's what I was thinking of writing.

Our tribal beliefs is all members of our council of chieftains are equal. Any communications can be transmitted through any one of our many great leaders. An autocracy does not work for so many idiots, losers and grumpy men. We are a simple people.
Our government consists of a council of great Celtic anarchist chieftains aka "CAC"!

You may recognize our honored "CAC symbol" :vomit:!

We as a nation hope one day we will advance to Celtic anarchist warlords and you may hear our war cry....CAW! CAW!

Ultimately, our goal as a nation is to known as a bunch of Celtic anarchist Deities aka CADS.

Is this too much? Whatcha think?

LMOA!!! :lol: Perfect!

I don't think we want too big a military, so the others don't think "Let's ally to take the behemoth" but not to small so we would be easy meat.

@ Whomp, I saw that thread and I don't think that he knows who he is dealing with. We're a bunch of smart***es. You ought to send him that via PM. Or better yet post it to his thread and let everyone else laugh at him too. :lol:

OK I did it. It should be an interesting thread to follow in the coming days. I won't be here so keep up the antics! :lol:

Where is it?

Here it is....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=125204

Heh, I saw that post before I came here. I got a laugh, but I'm used to you. He may think you're insane. :crazyeye:
...Which could infact be to our advantage when diplomacy comes around. :hmm:

Heh, I saw that post before I came here. I got a laugh, but I'm used to you. He may think you're insane. :crazyeye:
...Which could infact be to our advantage when diplomacy comes around. :hmm:IP--Insane I might be but I like to think of it this way.

A favorite passage from the book "The Art of Possibility" by Benjamin Zander:

Two prime ministers are sitting in a room discussing affairs of state. Suddenly a man bursts in shouting and stamping and banging his fist on the desk. The resident prime minister admonishes him. "Peter," he says, "kindly remember rule number 6," whereupon Peter is instantly restored to complete calm, apologizes, and withdraws.
The politicians return to their conversation, only to be interrupted yet again twenty minutes later by a hysterical woman gesticulating wildly, her hair flying. Again the intruder is greeted with the words: "Marie, please remember rule number 6." Complete calm descends once more, and she too withdraws with a bow and an apology.

When the scene is repeated a third time, the visiting prime minister addresses his colleague: "My dear friend, I've seen many things in my life, but never anything as remarkable as this. Would you be willing to share with me the secret of rule number 6?"

"Very simple," replies the resident prime minister. "Rule number 6 is 'Don't take yourself so g--damn seriously.'"

"Ah," says his visitor, "that is a fine rule." After a moment of pondering, he inquires, "And what, may I ask, are the other rules?"

"There aren't any."

@Whomp
Will get a copy of Zander asap. My man.
On the other hand I don't think how we are organized are any of their buissness. I've already started to dislike this provolution (uncommon for me) and would like to give him nothing but disinformation. I could always post a diclaimer telling about the revolution overthrowing the government (i.e. whole team) and the installation of Paris Hilton's hairdresser as supreme ruler. We'll see.

[QUOTE=Daghdha I could always post a diclaimer telling about the revolution overthrowing the government (i.e. whole team) and the installation of Paris Hilton's hairdresser as supreme ruler. We'll see.[/QUOTE]
my kind of thinking....

There is a new thread in the Main MTDG forum for a proposal to change the rule to now allow the use of MapStat & CAII. I suggest that we put such discussions here instead of the main Dept. of Turnplay thread to seperate the two discussions.

I can't see any problems with these programs. But doesn't Mapstat have a way to see the whole map? I never looked at it too closely. I don't know how to use Mapstat in turn. :blush: I've always used it for the next turn. Is there a way? I haven't loaded CAII. Is there anything that could be spoilerish?

CAII is not a problem. Ainwood & his sidekick have done a great job. I'd recommend you d/l it. It has a lot of features and the help file is only online, but once you get used to it it's nice. It's the main reason I'm able to contribute so much while I'm at work :mischief:

CrpSuite has some spoilerish programs. MapStat itself isn't but most people I think install the whole suite. Rings & Viewer have an option to eliminate the fog and see what other teams are doing.

Well then maybe Crpsuite should be banned and CAII should be ok. I thought I saw a program from Crpsuite that gave a map.

I have the entire CrpSuite, but have never tried using anything but the MapStat portion. I have two comments about it, and could use additional info if anyone knows.

Mapstat won't do anything on the turn you first load in a game first turn. I think it picks out its info from the autosave and that would start being useful on the second turn, so it might not be at all useful for playing a single turn. I dunno.

Secondly, it seems like MapStat gives you a choice between getting some sort of spoiler info as a setting when you first install it (probably can be changed from one game or turn to another). I can't recall what spoiler info it does give, so you'd have to be on your honor not to use the spoiler preference. (if in fact it even works for a single turn)

Dianthus would probably be the one to ask about those two questions.

I've been wanting to download CivAssistII, but I've noticed in the thread in the Utility Forum that a few people say it makes their computer run a lot slower and sometimes produces strange graphic glitches. I've been waiting for all of these apparent bugs to be resolved, since my machine is 3 years old and not so fast as the newer ones. I have a P4 1.9ghz 512 RAM.

My understanding is that it doesn't give any info you couldn't find manually in-game, but I don't have the patience to do it.

Edited to add: CrpSuite was originally designed for vanilla Civ and includes a module for Ring City Placement, which doesn't even apply to C3C. It isn't spoilerish in this instance...just obsolete.

If you right click anyplace in the CrpMapStat window it brings you a menu that will let you open any save without waiting for the auto save function to operate.

Kiech post in main thread could've been mine so my vote goes to YES, change the rule. Everyone can do the math with paper and pen given enough time but what's the gain? For some it might be the feeling of being "purer" than others but that doesn't do it for me.
Of course all utilities that can give spoiler info should be officially banned (even if used by some) but I'm not the the one to decide which does. Never looked for it, thus never found it.

Change the rule. The rules already state it's not allowed to cheat, so even if the programs have shady features, you would not be allowed to use them. We are bound by a code of honour and if we feel we cannot rely on that, there's no point in playing the game to begin with.

CivAssist II is designed to be spoiler-safe. The only things that I know of that are not spoiler safe in the latest version are:

It will show you which tiles have been deforested (Included by design).
You can apparently work-out which forest and jungle tiles are on bonus grassland vs normal grassland (bug / oversight)

I have not played PBEM or multiplayer myself for years, so have never rigorously tested it, but AFAIK CA-II is 'spoiler safe' for MP games. People who have played MP games can probably give more info than I can.

BTW - We're more than happy to fix anything that is identified, so please tell us if you find something.
I think the answer should be yes to Civassist II but based on Bede's comments so I'm not so sure about Mapstat though I'm still not sure how one opens mapstat interturn.
__________________

If you right-click anywhere on the MapStat window, there is a context menu that drops down. There is an "Open" and an "Open Recent" The Open will let you go and select a file to open. The Open Recent will search the Autosave directory for the most recent autosave and open it.

I presume (since I haven't tried it because of the rule) that you could open the save file that has been emailed to you. There is a drop-down box in the upper left hand corner which I don't know what it is for. In normal SP mode, it just has "<none>" and whatever the Civ that you are currently playing. Without someone allowing us to try it (due to the rule) then we are really just stabbing at the dark. I guess that I could create a "dummy" PBEM game with 4 teams & try it.

hmmm....I'll be back later with my findings. Let a monkey type enough and a good thought will come out ;) . We've experienced that with SGOTM8 in Team Cutlery too ;). The only problem is that our team is last in score currently :lol:

Ok. I created a 4 team PBEM game and went through all of the teams and played the first turn. The passwords are as follows


team name - password
team0 -> team0
team1 -> team1
team2 -> team2
team3 -> team3
admininstrator -> admin


Load it into Mapstat and unless you put in a team's specific password (or the admin password) you cannot view Mapstat with that civ. The only thing that it gives you that is NOT in game is the civs that are playing in the game (well that is in F11) and their traits, starting techs, & UU. (well that's in the civlopedia).

It turns out that the final vote on the turn-log rule change was

d'nuts -> yes
TNT -> yes
MIA -> abstain
Kiss-> abstain.

Regent was saying that it didn't pass and after d'nuts posted their yes vote Provo said something about amending & re-voting. I told him that Kiss abstains and will remain that way. Then I read the rule about ruel changes..... It just says that it has to be 2/3. Well 100% is > 66%, so I concluded that the rule had actually passed.. Then Bootstoots said that it was 2/3 of all remaining teams. So I'm not sure what the deal is with it. It might turn into a political headache so I'm going to zip it in the main forum and vent here. I guess Whomp can give our official reply if something comes up.

Bootstoots posted a proposed rule change to amend the rule about changing the rules....This is getting silly. I'd say just vote yes and let's play the game.

Honestly, I don't think any of us have a problem playing or posting the save. These guys need to have the confidence in letting multiple people play the save.

I think that they are stuck in Demo-game mode while we are mostly in SG-mode.

Believe me there will come a point in time where I'd prefer to stand aside so one of the Grumpys or experienced PBEMers do some :hammer:.

Mine is when war starts. I've never been good at it and in my SP games, I usually stay in it too long.

If you right click anyplace in the CrpMapStat window it brings you a menu that will let you open any save without waiting for the auto save function to operate.
Thank you. I'll have to try that in one of my own games. It would be useful in playing a game I haven't touched for a few days or weeks. :)

So, is the answer that we CAN or CANNOT use MapStat?

You know, I don't understand all the nitpicking that goes on in the main forum about rules. Does this go on all the time in demo games? I'm sure glad I'm on this team!!!

Does this go on all the time in demo games? I'm sure glad I'm on this team!!! I hear dat! I am going to post two polls about rule changes, including the CA II and mapstat rule.

Believe me there will come a point in time where I'd prefer to stand aside so one of the Grumpys or experienced PBEMers do some :hammer:.Come war time, some of us grumpy old guys will love to :hammer: For right now you guys are doing a great job. I like watching. :D

Come war time, some of us grumpy old guys will love to :hammer: For right now you guys are doing a great job. I like watching. :DWhere's the "Genghis, Gorm, Rik, Bugsy" alliance gone too ? ... :sad:

Where's the "Genghis, Gorm, Rik, Bugsy" alliance gone too ? ... :sad:I miss those guys. I haven't heard from either one in about 15 months. Last I heard Genghis was finishing school at UNC and gorm was in Angola on an oil rig.

The D'nuts popping a, too, early 2nd city is interesting. If it's not just plain stupid it may be part of some thought out tactic, right? It might be that they have multiple food bonuses in starting area and figure that will compensate for no granny? Or maybe they're planning on an early invasion getting rax up. I'd bet my 2 kroner on the latter. That would underscore Whomp's note that:
So they'd have to research BW, WC or go for their UU wheel and HBR the way I see it. My logic says Iros want veteran MW's soon and that we, if on same cont, could use some sentry.

That's what Dunderhead is for. If they are on the same continent as us. It'd take them a while to get HBR and a couple of Mounties up in our direction. By then Dunderhead will be pumping out some units.

That's what Dunderhead is for. If they are on the same continent as us. It'd take them a while to get HBR and a couple of Mounties up in our direction. By then Dunderhead will be pumping out some units. Absolutely, and some should be sent out on scouting and not stay as MP's.

Well I'm going to move over to the Dept. of Military Thread for this conversation. It hasn't been used at all yet.

Well I'm going to move over to the Dept. of Military Thread for this conversation. It hasn't been used at all yet. The Supreme Geek MM'ing the forum :lol:

The Supreme Geek MM'ing the forum :lol:What's funny is I won't do it in my SP games. I just get "distracted" at work and love these types of games where it's more of a learning exercise than a competition

I presume you've all seen the post in the main team multi-player forum about only the 1st team getting to see the Great Books info. I know Tubby replied and a few members of other teams. Provo is against it. :rolleyes: What do the rest of you think? I think the information would be useful, even though the status can change quickly.

I am not in a hurry to get intelligence on other nations, in fact, I rather prefer to plan without looking to the side Raaaaaajt :lol:

Has it been confirmed that Team Doughnut WILL see them? If they will, the only logical decision would be to let all teams see it. I don't see why there's any reason for discussion.

How shall we proceed with the MM'ing when number of cities grow? It will be much work for Tubs to plan them all. Is it a good idea to assign 1 or 2 cool dudes to each city, as gov's? They could then do the math and post instructions for the turnplayer in the dept of turnplay. Tubby does it so well that we would be well of he did it all, but I'm not sure he wants to or does he?

I think that's a good idea Dagh. Maybe the city you name is also your responsibility to understand (or get help) with its interworkings. Those on the back end should chip in where their strength is.

I'm fine with doing it for a while. CAII really helps because it will tell you what is and will get wasted. The only thing is that I'm leaving @ the end of Oct. through the middle of November. I'm trying to line up a laptop to take with me in order to keep up but I don't know if it is going to happen.

The only thing is that I'm leaving @ the end of Oct. through the middle of November.



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! :aargh:

OK who else has CAII? I will DL CAII but I haven't loaded it since my Civ laptop has slowed a bit.

For you computer literates....
How do you check and get rid of spyware?

Wow. I must say that our settler factory is really (re)producing.

How about a nice latin motto for K.I.S.S.? Something like victum per gravida - conquest through pregnancy.

After all, it will be centruies before cable TV is invented, our loyal citizens have to have something with which to occupy their time.

OK who else has CAII? I will DL CAII but I haven't loaded it since my Civ laptop has slowed a bit.

For you computer literates....
How do you check and get rid of spyware?

I used to have CAII and I will again very soon. I recently put a fresh copy of XP on my computer (also a laptop incidentally) and I am still in the process of getting everything in order again.

The best way to get rid of spyware is Hitman Pro (http://www.hitmanpro.nl/). The page is in dutch but the program supports english. Just hit the download link. The problem with spyware is that no program is available to get rid of it all, you need to run several programs. Hitman Pro does just that: it installs, updates and runs 9 different programs for you. Some of these programs also immunize against future infection. Note that a few of the programs Hitman installs are trial versions; you will have to start paying after a couple of weeks if you want to continue using them. Hitman will keep functioning with the free programs though and skip the ones you do not want to pay for.

OK who else has CAII? I will DL CAII but I haven't loaded it since my Civ laptop has slowed a bit.
I have CAII, but I don't know how to use it like Tubby does to MM cities.

I'm doing my best to get a loaner laptop to take with me. I still have two months to get it straightened out. It's really not that big of a deal what I've been doing. What's more odd is that I don't do it during a "normal" game.

It seems as though the moderators/admins of this game are getting tired of Provo's antics. Is it possible to ban someone from MTDG for being annoying???

Maybe the city you name is also your responsibility to understand (or get help) with its interworkings.

I'm fine with this idea (to start whenever the current system becomes unweildy and a change is desirable/necessary).

But as a squirrl-feeding technological illiterate who thinks that Jiffy Pop popcorn is a technological marvel, I will need some simple and clear instructions. Would the player send the save file to the different governors so they could run CAII, or would screen shots be forwarded and the calculations done on paper or spreadsheet?

So many questions, so little understanding... :confused:

So again, I am in no rush to start this since Tubby and Crakie are doing a fine job, but when our anarchist collective thinks its prudent, Field Marshal Karl von Kickbooti is ready to take control of our military city and my name sake - Dunderhead. :salute:

Lest any of you worry, I plan on modeling my military rule on a combination of Gen. "Buck" Turgidson (George C. Scott) and Brig. Gen. Jack D Ripper (Sterling Hayden) from Dr. Strangelove. I will ensure our Purity of Essence - don't you worry about it :twitch:

Sleep well fellow Kissers...

Maybe the city you name is also your responsibility to understand (or get help) with its interworkings. Those on the back end should chip in where their strength is.
Um, due to my computer/game analysis expertise, I'm changing my name to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzmaharriet.

It seems as though the moderators/admins of this game are getting tired of Provo's antics. Is it possible to ban someone from MTDG for being annoying???
Wonder what would happen if we proposed a formal rule change suggesting this. Also to be included in said rule change would be wording to make abstentions a vote to ban said annoying individual. Some folks might just be shy. :D

No worries "Ze" Gram, we'll help. It's a good practice to look at the save, though.

Booti...gotcha covered, Cap'n. We'll handle Dunderhead for ya. Personally, I think you need to be part of the diplo team. You, Soul Warrior, Bede, Admiral K and Igor. Fahgetaboutit! :twitch: I think anyone who's doing diplo will need "instant messenger", for sure.

Ban Provo? :eek: Are y'all nuts? Provo is our single greatest friend ever! The more he talks, the deeper the hole TNT digs.

bootilicious, I go out and download the save regardless whether I'm playing the turn or not. It's relatively small right now (& I have dialup) so it's not that big of a deal. CAII will show you what tiles are being worked and if there is going to be any waste in that city (food or shields). I've been playing around with it since Ainwood graced us with the new version and it's fairly powerful. Just try it some and it'll grow on you like a bad fungus too!! :D

Diplomacy... :groucho:

I may like the sound of that. I would be happy to sit and learn from Bede and Soul Warrior, et al.

It's been awhile since I read Kissinger, but here, let me practice.

When we meet TNT I may quote from one of my favorite literary diplomats - Exeter from Henry V



EXETER (read noble and true representatives of the happy anarchist kingdom of K.I.S.S.)

...bids you then resign
Your crown and kingdom, indirectly held
From him the native and true challenger.

KING OF FRANCE (read Provo)

Or else what follows?

EXETER (you know, the good guys)

Bloody constraint; for if you hide the crown
Even in your hearts, there will he rake for it:
Therefore in fierce tempest is he coming,
In thunder and in earthquake, like a Jove,
That, if requiring fail, he will compel;
And bids you, in the bowels of the Lord,
Deliver up the crown, and to take mercy
On the poor souls for whom this hungry war
Opens his vasty jaws; and on your head
Turning the widows' tears, the orphans' cries
The dead men's blood, the pining maidens groans,
For husbands, fathers and betrothed lovers,
That shall be swallow'd in this controversy.
This is his claim, his threatening and my message...

Yeah, diplomacy. That could be fun.

Exeter, add a little Teddy Roosavelt, sprinkle some William Wallace as played by Mel Gibson. That could keep our Purity of Essence.

No worries "Ze" Gram, we'll help. It's a good practice to look at the save, though.
I'm partly just kidding. I've kinda gotten some idea of how TR does his analysis with just one city, but the F11 screen will show the same info for 1 or 25 cities. How can a person track what's going on in city #10 (or whatever number) from that same info?

Ban Provo? :eek: Are y'all nuts? Provo is our single greatest friend ever! The more he talks, the deeper the hole TNT digs.
I :worship: to your greater wisdom, Whomp! He really is his own worst enemy, isn't he? :crazyeye:

Sorry to start a new post on the same topic, but I do have some additional questions.
Originally Posted by Whomp
No worries "Ze" Gram, we'll help. It's a good practice to look at the save, though.
I downloaded turn 24 and looked at the save. Um, I'm kind of afraid to move anything, since it has to be saved upon exit, and I don't know if I could get it open again. I also downloaded and tried to open the save we forwarded to D'nut, but it wouldn't allow me to look at it. I guess I'm just not sure what to do with the unplayed save, and I can't make suggestions without being able to see the results of the played save. Am I being totally dense here? :confused:

The past 2 weeks I haven't had much actual playing time, so I've been focusing on just starting new games and setting up settler factories, playing enough add'l turns to be sure they continue to work, then quitting and doing the same with a new game. I've managed to get a factory working in 4 out of 5 tries so far, though I couldn't describe how I managed to do them. I've read the "theory" many times, but I learn best by doing.

Maybe some of you could suggest what would be the best "new" thing for me to learn, both to be helpful in this game and also for a future SG. I seem to learn best when focusing primarily on just one new technique at a time, but there are so MANY things I don't yet know.

Right now I wouldn't have a clue how to manage just one city in this game, since the workers would be shared by all of us, or would it be a matter of discussing whether "my" city or "yours" needs it worse? I just find the concept of looking at a single city very different from considering the needs of the empire as a whole. I tend to be a bit shy and will say "somebody else do it", when I don't understand what's wanted of me. (pulls blankets over head and hides when in a quandry.) :sad:

Another question... I've been using MapStat and I've been wanting to get CAII, but I keep reading the posts on the CAII thread, and it seems like several people have problems with their computers running slower or getting strange graphic effects. Could this be due to their using browers other than IE? Have any of you experienced problems with it? I love the look of the city planning feature, and I'm never sure of the values of what tech to trade for another tech to get a reasonable deal.

Sorry to make this so long. I really want to help and I don't want to mess anything up.

I downloaded turn 24 and looked at the save. Um, I'm kind of afraid to move anything, since it has to be saved upon exit, and I don't know if I could get it open again.
You can exit without saving. When you're finished looking at the save, end your turn. A box will then come up. Select "Save & Exit" and when you're prompted to name it, hit the "X." You will leave, with the save intact.

I also downloaded and tried to open the save we forwarded to D'nut, but it wouldn't allow me to look at it.
That's because the save you forward to Team Doughnut is their turn. If you can access their save, let me know so we can smuggle you out and throw you in a river. ;)

I've managed to get a factory working in 4 out of 5 tries so far, though I couldn't describe how I managed to do them.
Write things down. If you do, I'm sure that you'll notice a pattern in each settler factory (amount of food saved, number of bonus grasslands or forests, etc.).

Have any of you experienced problems with [Civ Assist II]?
I haven't had any. I guess they're the 1% that is having problems.

Maybe some idiots can offer different and better views. ;)

You can exit without saving. When you're finished looking at the save, end your turn. A box will then come up. Select "Save & Exit" and when you're prompted to name it, hit the "X." You will leave, with the save intact.Thank you. That helps me understand what happens.

That's because the save you forward to Team Doughnut is their turn. If you can access their save, let me know so we can smuggle you out and throw you in a river. ;)Um, if I somehow manage to do that, I'll just disappear quietly...never to be heard from again. I can take a hint. Please don't hurt me. :lol:

Write things down. If you do, I'm sure that you'll notice a pattern in each settler factory (amount of food saved, number of bonus grasslands or forests, etc.).Good idea. Maybe a comparative Excel spreadsheet would help. It's hard to remember from one game to the next exactly what I did.

I haven't had any. I guess they're the 1% that is having problems.OK, you've sold me. I'll have a 3-day weekend coming up to play with it. I've heard so many good things about it, and I can use all the help I can get. :)

In a thread about "roleplaying" where other teams were named by TNT un-official UN-rap I posted this:

"Celts-Feadaíl Caora
Iros-BlasdaToll
Greeks-Sleagh Glas
Persia-Dian Luch"

Here's what it means:
Feadaíl Caora=Whistling Sheep
Blasda Toll=Tasty Hole
Sleagh Glas=Green Spear
Dian Luch=Eager Mouse

Have you been to the gmail inbox? (If not, then goto gmail.com & enter our our email address <teamkiss> and our password <sillywabbit6>.) All of the saves are under the Received Saves label (green heading on the left of the screen). You can download them from there.

Once you get it open, if you are just looking around what I do is look around without moving any units .

Then in order to get out, just press space for each unit to make them use up their movement points and press enter at the end of the turn. Select Save & Exit and then just cancel the save. It will return you to the main [c3c] menu.

Make sure that you are not moving units around. That is a big :nono:

(..)Then in order to get out, just press space for each unit to make them use up their movement points and press enter at the end of the turn. Select Save & Exit and then just cancel the save. It will return you to the main [c3c] menu.(..)That will work, but a lot easier then pressing enter for each unit is: CTRL-SHIFT-Q (Quit) and say "no" when prompted if you want to save. You are then immediately returned to the standard Civ - menu screen, with the save closed. Perhaps <ESC> (escape button) does the same, but I don't know as I don't like that button.

Ahhh. I learned something today. Do you think my boss will let me use that as an excuse to go home early?? Thanks Rik

Huzah!

Did I ever mention that Tubby is a genius? His "How to Download Saves/Wipe Your Own Keester/Buy Property With No Money Down for Mental Defects" tutorial was brilliant.

It changed my life. Not only did I dowload the save, but I no longer emit offensive odors and I bought an apartment complex despite the fact I am an unemployed, undermotivated, credit risk. All in one day by following his easy easy steps.

Thanks Tubby! :goodjob:

PS Do you have a weight loss program?

Do you have a weight loss program?Yes amputate a leg!!! :lol:

i know its going back to an annoying subject, so here's another Provo rant.
*&^*&^ 8976897^*^ 986(*^*(&^ 98&(&(*&
yes. that was pre-mod edited.

if he keeps up yapping..... :sniper:
nuff said and mums the word ;) ;)

That will work, but a lot easier then pressing enter for each unit is: CTRL-SHIFT-Q (Quit) and say "no" when prompted if you want to save. You are then immediately returned to the standard Civ - menu screen, with the save closed. Perhaps <ESC> (escape button) does the same, but I don't know as I don't like that button.
Or, if you're like me and don't like remembering tons of hotkeys, just press that oval on the top right of the box in the bottom right (where selected unit, current gold, gpt, and date are shown).

and regarding diplomacy...
let me quote some speeches im saving up for Provo's troops:
when we meet them. they wont know sarcasm if it hit 'em in the face and yet Huzzah!!
"O Romeo, Romeo! wherefore art thou Romeo?". - (Act II, Scene II).
right before we declare on him...
"Good Night, Good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow, that I shall say good night till it be morrow." - (Act II, Scene II).
and my speech... my favorite speech ever...
i'll let you guess who that one is aimed for ;)

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead!
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of war blows in our ears, Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;
Let it pry through the portage of the head
Like the brass cannon; let the brow o'erwhelm it
As fearfully as doth a galled rock O'erhang and jutty his confounded base,
Swill'd with the wild and wasteful ocean.
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide, Hold hard the breath, and bend up very spirit
To his full height! On, on, you noblest English!
Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof;
Fathers that, like so many Alexanders, Have in these parts from morn till even fought,
And sheath'd their swords for lack of argument.
Dishonour not your mothers; now attest That those whom you called fathers did beget
you.
Be copy now to men of grosser blood, And teach them how to war.
And you, good yeomen, Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!' Henry V, Act III. Scene I.

Once you get it open, if you are just looking around what I do is look around without moving any units .

Then in order to get out, just press space for each unit to make them use up their movement points and press enter at the end of the turn. Select Save & Exit and then just cancel the save. It will return you to the main [c3c] menu.

Make sure that you are not moving units around. That is a big :nono:
I was afraid to even try to move anything. To exit I think I used the menu button on the upper left corner without even using up any movement points...then I wondered if I'd permanently saved it...forever with no movement played...but I was able to open it again and it looked the same as the first time. My "motto" is the same as an MD..."Do no harm"...or at least that's my aim. :lol:

If you overwrite the original save all you have to do is go out and re-download the save from gmail. That's why I'm keeping them in the "folders" in case someone wants to go back and look at something.

@Soul Warrior

I'm with you. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers.

Hey, isn't St. Crispin's Day coming up??? :D

@Soul Warrior

I'm with you. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers.

Hey, isn't St. Crispin's Day coming up??? :D
St CRISPIN Aka Crispinus
Memorial Day - 25 October

he was a Roman noble. Brother of Saint Crispian with whom he evangelized Gaul in the middle 3rd century. Worked from Soissons, they preached in the streets by day, made shoes by night. The group's charity, piety, and contempt of material things impressed the locals, and many converted in the years of their ministry. Martyred under emperor Maximian Herculeus, being tried by Rictus Varus, governor of Belgic Gaul and an enemy of Christianity. A great church was built at Soissons in the 6th century in their honor; Saint Eligius ornamented their shrine.

martyred c.286 at Rome by torture and beheading

Patronage - cobblers, glove makers, lace makers, lace workers, leather workers, saddle makers, saddlers, shoemakers, tanners, weavers.

Sounds like a noble chap worthy of vengence. Since there are no Romans around whom shall we blame?

Pick the target and the diplomatic corp will come up with the rationale

the INJUNS done dat.... who else? :evil:

I tried opening a previous save to play with in CAII, and it required a password. I tried the gmail password but that didn't work.

Am I doing this wrong or did I miss something in the mists of the distant past?

Save has its own password for Team Kiss.

It will cost you 100Euros.

Awww Crap. Why couldn't we have started this two years ago - the conversion was much better.

Thanks Bede.

I'm wondering if it is good to be expanding so much faster than the other two teams. Since any 2 teams could take out a 3rd, I'm kind of concered about getting ganged up on after (or before) expansion phase is over. I guess that we really only have to worry about our neighbor since continental invasion is hard to do with galleys unless they are REALLY motivated.

Nevermind....

I'm wondering if it is good to be expanding so much faster than the other two teams. Since any 2 teams could take out a 3rd, I'm kind of concered about getting ganged up on after (or before) expansion phase is over. I guess that we really only have to worry about our neighbor since continental invasion is hard to do with galleys unless they are REALLY motivated.

Nevermind....
I think you answered the Q yourself :) . No ganging up will be effective until Galleons are available. crazy expansion but with a sound military back-up is the way to go methinks.

Indeed. To quote uncle Joe, "Quantity has a quality all its own." And until they can reach us I'll quote Machiavelli, "Let them hate, so long as they fear."

Of course its easy to talk big when we don't know where they are or if they can reach us... :D

Rik started a thread called Renaming units & cities (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=127668)in the main forum about renaming cities/ units and guess who the first to respond was...Our buddy Provo

I wonder if we should give a time quota allowance to each teamfor exceeding 24 hours, based on Team Doughnuts persistent delays some of these turns, that would be only fair.I wonder if we should be patient. :rolleyes:

Since I'm trying not to respond in the main forum I thought that I would respond here.....I know Provo likes the rolling eyes smilie :D

I think that I have good news. I have a laptop that I believe I'll be able to access the internet while I'm away at the end of Oct - mid of Nov. I can put [c3c] on it as well as CAII. So theoretically I should be ok. The only difference will be that I won't have 2 21 in monitors like I do at work and have to deal with a laptop sceen....

I am just making sure we are not getting an exclusive warning when TNT goes over the limit one day. So far we are the only one.:eek: When did we delay a save?
K's calculating D'nuts average time to play a save (17 hours I guess). I would like to post our average time because it's got to be under 3-4 hours but I'll stay away from that hornet's nest.

I would like to respond to this 24 hour rule. I think it's perfectly reasonable that team's ask for extensions. As the game progresses I think we can start extending it to say 36 then 48 or whatever it takes. What do you all think?

BTW I think the reason DaveShack has asked for a delay is D'nuts have met someone and they are discussing how they would like to respond. A MAJOR discussion is ensuing in Doughnutia. It's the only reason I can think of the delay to game at this point.

Yup we're the only team that has never gone over a time limit. There was one time we sent the wrong save and couldn't send the correct one right away but we still had plenty of time to remedy the situation without going over 24 hours.

Provo (that's what I like to call him ;) ) is just trying to get under people's skins I suppose.



Re: Doug H. Nuts: I think that you have hit upon something Whomp. That's scary that they have hit another civ. I wonder when we will do the same..... If they met us how will we know?? will they show up in our foreign advisor screen?

Yup we're the only team that has never gone over a time limit. There was one time we sent the wrong save and couldn't send the correct one right away but we still had plenty of time to remedy the situation without going over 24 hours.I would like to clarify this point to Ginger Ale and RegentMan then. Maybe best to discuss by PM instead of flames coming through my computer. ;)
Re: Doug H. Nuts: I think that you have hit upon something Whomp. That's scary that they have hit another civ. I wonder when we will do the same..... If they met us how will we know?? will they show up in our foreign advisor screen? If they know us they will open the diplo screen and send us a PM to set up a time for a discussion. This is where IM will be needed.

Unfortunately I'm trapped far far away from my home machine so it's not just a matter of sending another email. Also for unexplained reasons the save in the email is named correctly which means if it is actually the wrong save, it is corrupted and will have to be replayed. I left an explicit record of what was done so it won't be any problem if that has to be done. You might be right, but just a few days ago Dave posted this. Since it seems he's the spider in that nut it could be logistics causing the delay.
Regarding delays I say we stay out of that discussion as much as possible. If we're forced to vote, I have full confidence in Whompsies opinion and would be delightede to see Bugs point on "destroying a stupid team" posted in main thread...then again maybe not. Let TNT pi55 everyone off and let's use that to our advantage.

We're all good. I pm'd Ginger instead of posting anything.
Team K.I.S.S is doing excellent in the turnaround of saves. No problem with you guys. :thumbsup:

O/T...Well is anything off topic in here???

Diplomacy in PBEM.... I decided to take a half day from work. I came home and thought I'd start a new PBEM game with jsut 2 civs and no barbs or AI. I saved it just prior to the meeting of the two civs. Open the following save (no passwords were set) and just move the scout 1 SW. Then hit Shift-D. The 2 civs (Russia & America) will have met. You'll see what can be done.

Seems like you can use shift+D and initiate diplo when standing on tile next to opponents border, but not when only seeing it. I walked around it 1 tile away and zip happened before I stepped up next to border line.
Very nice set up Tubs, I'll play with it for a while.

Edit: Strange indeed. It "works", but negotiation over e-mail/PM must be much better. Is there anything said about what channels of negotiating we're allowed/suggested to use?

Perhaps we should start talking about what we should do when we meet another civ. Having never gotten this far in a PBEM (played to turn 5 with Gengis once :rolleyes: ) I am in student mode.

Edit - I suppose this should go over on the diplomacy thread.

I wonder how fast we would want to get out of despotism. It looks like we will out-rex Greece and q is how do we maximize that advantage? In despo, being agri, we can use our fast growing pop as cash and whip our cheap temples for border expansion. 1 temple->12 tiles (if OCP that is). The good thing about using pop rushing instead of cash dito is we can save the dough for upgrading cheap warriors. Downside, despo yields little cash :( . This is an equation the geeks dept. are better suited to figure.
Trying to state the question: Do we lose more cash by staying in despo and whipping pop than we gain by switching to rep and cash rushing? The critical factor being the ability to rush X # of temples.
This is almost too geeky for me so I don't know if it's understanable at all :lol: . I have a hunch that it might be an interesting question all the same.

indeed dagh.
but we need the numbers people on this one.
i am but a humble warrior here.

indeed dagh.
but we need the numbers people on this one.
i am but a humble warrior here.
And a much appreciated one! This merry bunch seems to be a nice mix of warheads, geeks, lunatics, builders, diplomats and idiots. We will contribut all of us I'm sure. Me, I just ramble a lot about everything and nothing knowing that no crafty strategy is worth a monkeys dong without the MM'ing and geeking. The #dept is the bigger part of what makes the whole beast tick.

I think that it would be harder to hide the cash rushing of temples with Republic than pop rushing in Despot. MIA might see the land grab that we trying to pull off.

I think that MIA will out dollar us regardless. We might as well make the most of our AGR trait. Pop Rushing temples sounds ok but the things might change once Republic starts. 1 G per temple seems like it'll be a burden later if we really don't need them. But I huess that we can sell them after border expansion.

I think that it would be harder to hide the cash rushing of temples with Republic than pop rushing in Despot. MIA might see the land grab that we trying to pull off.

I think that MIA will out dollar us regardless. We might as well make the most of our AGR trait. Pop Rushing temples sounds ok but the things might change once Republic starts. 1 G per temple seems like it'll be a burden later if we really don't need them. But I huess that we can sell them after border expansion. Yeah, border exp is what they would be for. MIA will see our expansion and be worried about it. We need to convice them that they be better off accepting that, rather than obstructing.

I would use our AGRI trait to the max and use settlers rather than temples to expand the borders. The ongoing cost of a temple is high and the shields end up wasted if you sell them. New towns keep giving and giving and giving......

I would use our AGRI trait to the max and use settlers rather than temples to expand the borders. The ongoing cost of a temple is high and the shields end up wasted if you sell them. New towns keep giving and giving and giving......
Good point, but wouldn't a loose planning + temples yield the bestest "fastest" coverage? When a looot of tiles are covered we can fill in with settlers to raise the non-temple city count. The cities with temples may even keep them and build more cult later on to flip some Greek villages that happen to be squeezed in on a free tile :lol: . Will not argue further about it 'thou.

For the time being, I think we need to concentrate on the two staples of CIV success, population (settlers and workers) and military. Anything else at the moment is a waste.

Anyone got a handy copy of Bede's "temple rant"? For those of you who have not read such fury I highly recommend reading it.

I also defer to Bugs on this topic. Settler, workers, military.
Libs and markets will come in their due time and pay for themselves.

we all still tremble when thinking about holy places.
i still cant go into one.
i say we eat all of our porridge, so we'll grow nice and strong.
when were older, we can go to college and learn to read.

we all still tremble when thinking about holy places.
i still cant go into one.
i say we eat all of our porridge, so we'll grow nice and strong.
when were older, we can go to college and learn to read. There, a religious man preaching :lol:

Anyone got a handy copy of Bede's "temple rant"? For those of you who have not read such fury I highly recommended reading it.Is this where he makes a case for Godlessness in [civ3] except in culture wins?

Anyone got a handy copy of Bede's "temple rant"? For those of you who have not read such fury I highly recommended reading it.
Anybody have a link to it? I've read about the rant several times, but I've never actually seen the genuine article. I get curiouser and curiouser. :D

Aahhh.. he must be getting soft. He recommended temples in TR04 :lol: .


I'll defer to others on building planning.

You asked for it...

Somebody posted something about temples... it's a little early for that. Bede'll probably say that's another one of my understatements.

Temples...temples...priests are prevaricating parasites who pillage the body politic.
You want culture, build libraries. You get something back from the investment.
You want content citizens, build marketplaces, trade for luxuries, build towns for luxuries
Bede says:
If happiness is a problem in a settler or worker farm, it is a self-limiting problem. Raise the luxury tax, hire an MP, you only need to make the expenditure for a couple of turns. Temples are with you forever and are a permanent drag on the economy.

Understatement...bah!


Clive1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=93503)

That wasn't the one I was thinking about. I guess there is more than one. :lol:

I wonder if Provo misses the 24 hours, if anyone will post a thread about him delaying the game. :lol: I wonder if the other continent has met and they are going through what we went through yesterday.....

I wonder if Provo misses the 24 hours, if anyone will post a thread about him delaying the game. :lol: I wonder if the other continent has met and they are going through what we went through yesterday..... Or even worse :lol:

if anyone will post a thread about him delaying the game :lol:

The question should be "Who won't post about the delay?"

Oh I a bit of good news ..... I managed to secure a company computer to take to 3-mil island when I go at the end of Oct. I've installed [c3c], CA2, mapstat, & Paint Shop Pro. I also have MSN messenger and my internet software on it. So I think that I am completely set up to "work" ;) .

I'll be working night shift 7PM-7AM, so it'll be a little rough to be on as much as I am now. Also I won't be able to be online while at work down there (customer perception that I'm slacking off...however true it might be). So at most I'll be online 6 hours or so. I might check everything before going to be in the morning and then check things again after I get up.

Great news Tubs. We'll be awake @ same hours :thumbsup:

Good news Tubs.

When is the admirality establishing a thread about our mighty navy? I have a feeling our navy will become really, really important if we don't cut a deal with MIA.

When is the admirality establishing a thread about our mighty navy? as soon as the first boat is in the water

So at most I'll be online 6 hours or so. I might check everything before going to be in the morning and then check things again after I get up.What a hardship tour this will be :rolleyes: :D

Tubs, I'm glad to hear you'll continue to give us the pleasure of your company and the benefit of your geeksomeness. :D

Team MIA would like to humbly request a time extension.

We apologize for the delay, and hope to have the turn completed very soon.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
so i guess they are voting on thier final answer right now.

I find it interesting that they didn't have a plan in place for this in advance.

Maybe they wanted to see the save before voting...why? I don't know.

Unless my computer clock is off, it looks like TNT is about 1 1/2 hours late in sending their save. :mischief:

I just realized that I talk too much..... See pic below for proof (as if you didn't need it already ;) )

I just realized that I talk too much.....
I chuckled at the pic, but you DO have knowledgable comments to make. Please keep it up. :)

hey Tubby, the only reason you had the top spots is because I was tied up with GR7. Pretty soon this blabber mouth will have all the spots back.... like now :D

I moved this out of diplo thread and threw it here.So is this like an unwritten spirit of the game in PBEMs? I can't find it written anywhere in the rules. They just talk about trading contact information and maps and out of game espionage.
That would be considered out of game espionage. Which brings up the question. Should players who have not posted in each team's forum be required to reapply for team membership?
1. It gives each team a true headcount.
2. The people posting have a vested interest in the outcome vs those who have not.

If the want to rejoin, fine or am I just being paranoid?

I think you're just paranoid ;)

Maybe just start a thread in our private forums where every member would check in.

I thought you had to apply to become a member of these threads and this team.

True, but it seems like only about half the people who have signed up for the team have actually posted anything.

well, maybe they are all in awe of our brilliant chaos.
so in awe they are kept speechless by our wisdom of the ages?
or just plain in shock of how a nation is run by Idiots, and its ramifications in real life?
:woohoo: i just love this...

I haven't had a chance to use that new smilie yet...

Hmm...new episode of the Simpsons tomorrow! :woohoo: There, that works.

Maybe some of them are just lurking to learn (basically what I'm doing, except I blather on anyway in idiot fashion), but not ready to participate. I think RegentMan or GingerAle would prevent them from having access to additional private forums, since you DO have to apply through them. OTOH, it would be interesting to know who's active and who's not. :hmm:

In defense of non-posters, I confess I have joined a game or two in the past and then lost interest or was burried under the real world I seem incapable of controling (as opposed to the Civ world where I am the master of all I survey, or I restart, either one).

I noticed on the General team posting thread that some people were catagorized as 'lurkers.' Maybe we could ask the admins to label non-posters in this manner to get the flavor of the active memebership.

And since this is the dept. of General musings I must say; on any other team I am convinced that I would be considered a wise-cracker par excelence, but here at Team K.I.S.S. I'm drowning in sweat just to keep up with the banter.

Way to go team :goodjob:

I salute you :salute:

I noticed on the General team posting thread that some people were catagorized as 'lurkers.' Maybe we could ask the admins to label non-posters in this manner to get the flavor of the active memebership.
Good idea if the admins are willing!

on any other team I am convinced that I would be considered a wise-cracker par excelence
That you are! But it is highly praiseworthy among the rest of us idiots. Don't stop!!! :D

well, maybe they are all in awe of our brilliant chaos.
so in awe they are kept speechless by our wisdom of the ages?
or just plain in shock of how a nation is run by Idiots, and its ramifications in real life?
:woohoo: i just love this...While we may be an anarchy, I wouldn't put us in the "idiot" category. We have some great minds on this team. I continue to be impressed how everyone is stepping up and contributing in areas they are very good at. Just wait until we get to the more difficult portions like war. I can't wait to see someone like Barbslinger rip into some of these teams.

I have been informed there are ways to catch cheaters so no worries. I'm just a freak. Sorry. Carry on....

Is it allowed to use animated smilies in sigs? I remember someone had the dancing banana... :woohoo:

its allowed as long as its less than 5 lines. whatever you put inside is ok, as long as its within the forum rules (no nudi pics, etc.)

I see Provo just sent the latest turn to MIA and he was 5 minutes over the 24 hours. Anybody want to register a protest? :lol:

STOP THE PRESS!!!!
EXTRA!!!
EXTRA!!!!
these right in from team MIA....

its an edited version (meaning i pasted all 4 together)

and i true idiot fashion, i mixed up pages one and two :D

Like any of us knows so big numbers ... :)

The eighth step is fine. We should agree to it.

The only question is on #5. I have pm'd Fe with that question before any document is sent.
:blush: I had to have Mistfit help me put the seal on it so that's why it was in the inbox.

I had to have Mistfit help me put the seal on it so that's why it was in the inbox.
where would we be without Mist?
@ bugs - looking forward to turning 'slinger (and yourself) loose for war

BTW, why is thier seal bigger than ours?
and whats this about "mark" of kiss?
do they think we cant read?
i hope they dont....

calm down, as previously stated, we know how to "mark' our territory

where would we be without Mist?
Same place you are with me.... just not nearly as pretty :p

I just found out my wife pre-ordered Civ IV for me!
:dance: :thanx: :band: :woohoo:

She either loves me or is sick of the sight of me.

Either way, I love that woman. :love:

Now that is a very thoughtful thing for her to do! You have a rare spouse. Mine just rolls his eyes whenever I mention what I'm doing, but at least he doesn't complain. You're very lucky. :)

Asking a favor here. My computer has been intermittantly making some odd growling noises and I'm getting random strange error messages. If I should disappear from either this forum or from Bede's TGOMTG for 24 hours or more, could one of you send me an email at gmaharriet@hotmail.com? Pretty please with sugar on top. :)

I can access Hotmail from my office computer, but I can't access this board at all from my office, nor can I access MSN Messenger there. It's occurred to me that I'd have no way to get in touch with anyone here if my computer died, and I'd hate to have anyone think I'd just purposely stayed away. And I don't have the email address for any of you except on this forum or on MSN Messenger. Darned office IT security says this is an illegal site. :mad:

Might not be a bad idea for each of us to post some alternate way of contacting each other if you don't already have some type of arrangement for that. Thanks in advance.

good idea, harriet.
ill start a thread called "Department of Alien Affairs"
we can post contact details there.

I don't think that d'nuts have occupied the TNT city. And the score decrease in TNT isn't as significant as I expected. So that leads me to ask this question......


What are the different ways that a team can lose a tile of their territory?
loss of a city via conquest
loss of a city via volcano
cultural expansion of another civ that encroaches on your territory
any other ideas???

can it possibly be a pop point lost?
disease by flood plain and barbarians come to mind here.

no because our land area increased in rank from 2 to 1.

Land area = # of tiles in cultural borders x 100

Could it have been MIA??

just checked. In a conversation last night with MIA. They said that their land area was 3800 for turns 33, 34, & 35. 3rd until turn 35 and then they bumped up to 2nd.

So that's a loss of 45-38=7 tiles at least. That's a whole city taken away from a civ on the other continent!!!

If you want ALL possibilities, maybe someone accidentally clicked Abandon city? Or perhaps, there was sabotage, and someone did it on purpose. :sad: That would explain the 48 hour time extension request by Donuts.

build settler to relocate city?

Is there any other possibilities besides war.....

IroP suggested one thing.

What else could cause a trade of at least 7 tiles for 2-3 pop?

All of this has happened to TNT. D'nut has really only just been jerks to MIA and delayed their turn. TnT is the focal point. But we only can get 3rd hand info right now. WE have to use our noodles to make up the whole lasagna.

How the heck can Nuts have caused TNT any intentional harm with those techs and that settler program? Have they walked up to TNT with 3 warriors and just kicked their blue butt?

forgot to mention that we got a nice lawn added to our palace

Very good. I'll just tidy up a bit :)

nice set of whells, dagh :D
i guess MIA is appropriately missing?

Dagh, that's hysterical!!! :rotfl:

:rotfl: speechless

Took me a couple hours, but I finally got it :rotfl:

37 sent to MIA
I advise all to please hold the save while we work out the current ruling. I suggest that the brilliant legalists in the various teams coin out a new rule here for FUTURE (My bold, his caps.) reference, instead of seeking to pin Team TNT on the rule we did not break.
A petty defamation campaign it is to reduce our diplomatic options, now, come with a constructive proposal in place of defamation on future rules for city naming.
It seems more and more likely that TNT is up to something in the lines of the Tubs/Whomp-theory (good thinking Idiots :goodjob: ). What I'm asking myself is "why is Nuts so quiet about this in the main thread about renaming"?. It's just us and MIA questioning this. Therefore I suspect the Nutters might be in on it. Isn't it true that Nuts gained at the same time that TNT lost. Could they have gifted Nana to the Nuts? And if so, will Nuts do the same with Springfield? Is that the reason they have spawned settlers from their capitals so early? I suggesst we keep a close eye on this to see if something similar (but reversed) happens, i.e. TNT gain->Nuts lose. If that be the case we can suspect they have an almost unhealthy close relation and one that has been established veeeeery early in the game. We can also expect to spot an Iro city along the N coast of opposite continent even if they, prolly, started down S. Igor's Hope should be assigned to sort that out.
If they co-op on this neither will lose much so it's quite possible.

I guess there's no more logical place to post this, but as asked in the MTDG main forum, why did TNT jump their palace this early?

Kissers:

I think I'd watch it in the main threads. It's probably enough for them to know we know they jumped without contact.

We still don't have a good read on the situation on the other continent and we should keep our options open.

Make the inquiry/protest, then let the admins do their job.

Gentlemen, and the one lady we know about,

I'm losing track here of what is going on and sense that some negotiation with MIA resulted in the protests to the admins regarding the renaming of a relocated city. Is that the case? If so, good.

I have one little problem however, no where in our threads is there any other than hints and winks about all this. That makes it tough for those of us who have not participated in the IM discussions to make sense of what's happening. It may not be a bad idea to put up an archive thread for posting these conversations.

So if someone could fill in the Old Monk he would appreciate it.

I'll have to agree with Mr Booti here: we've yelled our miscontent, they are aware of it now. That's all we need.

As has been discussed yesterday night (fri) over msn, with a few other idiots, keeping our jaws barking would eventually turn the "anger momentum" against us, leading to more awkward, tougher relationships in the future. We've had our protests against (IMHO which they deserved), but this ought to be enough if we don't want to compromise the relationships with the 2 other factions.

Still, I think our protest, if a bit overstretched, has made more good than bad. Let's just keep it at that and avoid mistakes.

[X-post] @Bede: we've found evidence that they lost a city, cross-referenced in time with a drop in cultural power to their capital - which could, within all reasonable margin of doubt, very well mean they jumped palace and renamed the new one.

Perhaps this is not absolutely accurate, but to the best of my knowledge, it's essentially that.

Provo is very stubborn in saying "it is not what you think it is" (see diplo thread). Now, I believe that guy would sell his mother to get ahead of opponents so I'm not suggesting he is telling the truth, but if he is what have they been up to??? Have they lost their capital to Barbies? That would be a laugh wouldn't it :lol: .

Bede--I missed the final part of the conversation with Fe3333au and I don't know if anyone else copied the conversation but my recollection was Fe was quite perturbed.

I'll stand by the reasons I believe they jumped the captial.
* Centrally located capital off the coast.
*Faster coverage for their military from that central point.
*Possibly more productive capital (IE they may not get disease like we did)
*Move the capital closer to Donut.
*Four quality Tiles were already developed for the new capital.
Why they did this so early is still a mystery and maybe I'm wrong (according to Provo)but I would be interested in someone else has a theory.

Well, twas a stupid decision. That early they need every city for expanding and such. Once they're done expanding that might be smart, but :shakehead. And I thought we were the idiots.

They wouldn't lose their city to barbs. They may lose some gold or a citizen, the city would still stand.

My theory - these guys are idiots. They just set themselves back about five turns for what gain? I can't think of anything worth it. That will be hard to make up with an Agricultural civ on their continent.

That will be hard to make up with an Agricultural civ on their continent. Then it looks like TNT might be the ones that need support if the going gets rough overseas :lol: . Oh how I would like to see Kickbooties scenario come true. Shipping stuff to them so they can hammer eachother to oblivion.

However, TEAM TNT is not fully aware of PBEM conventions and so on in particular subsets of Civ3 communties, so bear over with us for that. We barely observe the F11 screen at all, as we consider that a waste of time. We tend to divert our resources into other areas. However, for many of us, do not consider the F11 as the key thing here.
:eek: I wasn't sure where to put this regarding the discussion of F11 between Provo and fe. I simply do NOT believe that nobody on his team looks at F11 or that they honestly believe it to be an exploit. IMHO Fireaxis put that in the game to be looked at and to give intel on the success of civs as yet unmet. I think he's being totally ingenuous here. :mad:

So TNT and Donuts are not at war? :cry:

BTW, isn't abandoning the capital for a free Palace jump an exploit?

palace jumps are an exploit if say we planted only one city on the other continent and then jumped the city to it.

Mainly it's considered an exploit because the above reason and the AI don't do it.

Since neither apply here, I think that it should have been ok. And we will probably do it eventually too. but only after expansion

Justa thought: If we can manage to stay out of military conflict and want to time our GA til after we reach rep, then we will have to save 1 or 2 GH's w possible barbies for a GSword to kill. I did that in a solo game and it worked nicely. Don't know about pbem's thou since barbs are a bit different here.

fightin with barbs don't start you GA. so no need to save the GH. I'd just rather plant a city next to them to try to get a tech or gold instead of barbs

IIRC I tried that once but didn't trigger my GA with a UU attack on a barb - it kindof surprised me, but perhaps I already had a GA in that game. Somebody please confirm it's doable.

X-post thanks tubs

With banning possible let's try to be on our best behavior and not antagonize any of the other teams. They are quite sensitive these days and we will pick our battles with our military. This game is in its infancy and we have a plan. Let's stick to it.

O/T Everything is still spinning a bit in my office today. Barbslinger slung me good yesterday. :beer: Today I ride the pain train.
He took a picture from his phone so hopefully he'll be able to post it for posterity sake.

IIRC I tried that once but didn't trigger my GA with a UU attack on a barb - it kindof surprised me, but perhaps I already had a GA in that game. Somebody please confirm it's doable.

X-post thanks tubs
Tubby's right of course. I did a test run and, no, nuthin' happend. Let's settle-pop those Huts.

My theory - these guys are idiots. They just set themselves back about five turns for what gain? I can't think of anything worth it. That will be hard to make up with an Agricultural civ on their continent.
IMIO, they're going for a OCC win via space :crazyeye: :joke:

IMIO? In my idiotic opinion :crazyeye:

u got it
:lol:

I just noticed something. We have at least 15 stickied threads. Can we reduce this amount? I never see the new threads since the sticky threads fill up my screen. I'm running a screen resolution on 1600x1200 pixels and I know the people that are running 800x600 are having to scroll at least 2 miles on their mouse.

Not really a big issue. Jsut a matter of priority. Are all of the threads the highest priority? no. I'd say 5, 10 tops should be stickied. I'm not trying to buzz-kill here but I hate it when at work I ask people what priority something is and it is either can wait forever or has to be done right now.

I'll start by requesting to Rik that the Dept. of Geeks & Numbers be unstuck.

Conversation with Daghie on the above topic


Daghie says:
Hi Tubby, why you want to un sticky geeks?
Tubby Rower says:
It is getting too cluttered
Tubby Rower says:
WE don't need everything stickied
Tubby Rower says:
Does that make sense or am I MMing the forum again?
Daghie says:
I find it rather easy to find the relevant threads that way, but gees is updated so often that it will appear on first page anyway i guess
Daghie says:
LOL
Tubby Rower says:
I'm reminded of that old phrase
Tubby Rower says:
If everything is special then nothing is
Daghie says:
good point
Daghie says:
we can unstickie the "exclusive MIA deal"
Tubby Rower says:
We probably only need the Turnlog stickied and any pressing matters such as voting and/or announcements
Daghie says:
i disagree, but it's not a big deal
Tubby Rower says:
You want them all stickied?
Daghie says:
all the "department style" threads, yes
Tubby Rower says:
everything is a department style thread though
Daghie says:
ha, ha, well maybe not all.
Daghie says:
Some could be merged
Daghie says:
Military and Naval
Daghie says:
MM'ing into dep't of turnplay
Tubby Rower says:
I
Tubby Rower says:
If there is something pressing going on it will rise to the top
Tubby Rower says:
unless you have > 15 stickied threads
Daghie says:
true
Daghie says:
also true....
Tubby Rower says:
that's the purpose of stickifying a thread is to attribute utmost importance to it
Tubby Rower says:
nbot just mediocre importance
Daghie says:
i've thought about it as keeping threads that are often active at the top, but it may be the same thing in the end
Daghie says:
cept if it's stuck it will stay after it is important
Tubby Rower says:
I think that the purpose of the sticky is to bring threads to the top that are important but not replied in too often
Tubby Rower says:
the ones that are replied to often WILL stay at the top
Daghie says:
well then the "laws" are to be stuck after all...
Daghie says:
like rule sets and alike
Tubby Rower says:
correct
Tubby Rower says:
all of the Dept. threads I think should be unstuck
Tubby Rower says:
if something is going on then it should be at the top
Daghie says:
You've argued well. I've changed my view on this. Please MM the forum with my humble blessing.
Tubby Rower says:
now I just need 1 more celt to agree with me then I'll contact Rik
Daghie says:
LOL

well, more of an Angle.... but close enough.
unstick it, tubby.

Unsticky them.

Let's get a poll stickied on whether or not things should be stickied or unstickied :D

Let's get a poll stickied on whether or not things should be stickied or unstickied :D
Don't start you, you...pot stirrin' troublemaker. It's been decided since more than 2 said to do it. Done.

I think some are to be stickied and others not. We also could merge some, like research + geeks, military + navy, mapping + scouting, etc.

What is this suposed to mean?

Post by Provo (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3118500&postcount=32)

It was Fe3333au taking some offense to TNT sending the picture in an email to MIA. I guess it's one of TNT's team pictures in the "Team Info Thread"
Read here for Fe3333au's discussion with Provo (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=127668&page=3)

I am against the announcing of renames before civs have met,Guess why :)

This might tell us that they didn't meet D'nuts yet. ??

Shall we ask if moving the capital and then renaming it is legal? :D

Daghie, stop posting in the Turnplay log.... That is for turns only

@Tubs
My bad. It was ment to be in the dpt of turnplay :blush:

Side note:
To all non-TNTers: Do not use this against them, confusion was not their goal from this process. This is an old post but it has slipped my attention. Being so clearly stated by an administrator we can, I hope, assume it wasn't intentional.

Side note #2: Can anyone tell what THIS (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3124275#post3124275) is all about???

EDIT: I checked w Ginger Ale pm in spoiler:
Originally Posted by Daghdha
Hi Ginger
I didn't see what was was in it, but whatever it was I would like to know. He posted it for everyone to see so he had a message. Strange if only some teams but not others were able to get it. Even if I do think 85% of his posts are rubbish they still contain information that may influence the way we choose to handle future contacts. If I/we are not informed of the contents of this post I would appreciate an explanation telling why.

All the best
Daghie



Sorry, that info is classified.

He posted it in the wrong forum. Some info was leaked. It is not meant for the public to see.



OK, I understand. I guess we will have to extort that info out of him later which, of course, will be a pleasure

Ginger Ale has requested we give him 50-75 words about us in the MTDG for the CFC main page. I would request some of our great writers prepare something about us. It's not like we have a lack of material. :D Would anyone like to volunteer?