Welcome to your game thread. Please use it and subscribe to it. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=125341), where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

The starting saves will become available on the SGOTM Progress and Results (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php) page on August 5, midnight, server local time.

Thanks go to Gyathaar for coming up with the variant and developing the map.

The variant is Hydrophobic Conquest. You are America, your goal is to conquer your archipelago world, and you are afraid of water.

The rules are simple:

1. You will build no boats. Seaborne units are all disabled for America.
3. You must win by Conquest. America must be the only civ standing at the end of your game.
4. Red and Gold Laurels will be awarded respectively to the members of the C3C and Classic teams achieving the fastest conquests.
5. PTW and Vanilla teams are not permitted to leader rush Great Wonders before 1000 BC in this game

Here's the start:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/sgotm8.jpg

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/sgotm8mini.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - America
Opponents - Six, preselected
World size - 80 wide by 80 high. (Small)
Difficulty - Emperor
Landform - Archipelago
Barbarians - Raging

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Game mods:
- America can't build boats. The AI can.
- All victory conditions are available except Diplomatic and Spaceship.
- Settlers, workers, scouts, explorers, leaders, cruise missiles and tactical nukes can be loaded into helicopters.
- A side effect is AIs can load tactical nukes into any boat with transport capacity ... so beware :nuke:
- Bombers have lethal sea bombard only (lethal land bombard removed)
- Cruise missiles, stealth bombers and F-15 have both lethal sea and land bombard.

Additional change:
- C3C will use the same contact and map trading rules as Classic. Contacts can be traded between two civs when one of them knows Writing. Maps can be traded between two civs when one of them knows MapMaking.

The SGOTM Mediterranean resources are included in this game. If you have played SGOTM 7 then you will be ready. If not you may need to download and unzip a small graphics mod pack. Vanilla/Mac players need to install the GOTM mods. The best way to achieve this is to use the relevant All-in-one GOTM Installer for your OS, linked in my signature.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game. Vanilla players in particular should understand the late-game equalisation modifications that we don't often have to worry about.

The GOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71788)
SGOTM Reference Thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112722)

Notes:

A. The Classic (Play the World and vanilla 1.29) versions of Civ3 AND Conquests version 1.22 (C3C) are all supported in this game. Because of the different game play, Classic and C3C teams will play for separate awards.
B. All teams must play the sponsored variant.
C. You MUST play from the start file assigned to your team. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Checking in. I'm pretty sure this is my team, unless I either misread the team list, or it got changed.

So I guess what we need to do is beeline to helis, right? Obviously own our own continent/island first, and just crank the research.

What is that resource icon there? I realize I need to install the mod.

Checking in. This looks like it should be a fun one. Too bad there couldn't have been some sort of fear-of-rivers put into the save to account for our hydrophobia. Maybe preventing engineering from removing the river cross penalty would have been neat. Ah, but I should have thought of that last week before the game was about ready to go.

Looks like helos are the only way to go. It's going to be fun trying to get our settlers and workers a foothold on another island.

What are some thoughts on our starting location? I'm thinking we may consider moving the settler SE because of the food-rich and shield-poor start. This doesn't waste the hill, gains 4 more potential tiles of grassland, and gives us more trees for those CSC-happy chops. (Or does the SGOTM mod put chops back down to the Vanilla level?)

Yeah, I was thinking SE too, but of course send the scout to the mountain first. Never know where they hid a cow....

What is that resource icon there? I realize I need to install the mod.

Just installed the mod myself. Looks like that is a Lamb tile which gives +2 food.

Checking in.

I think there are more possibilities to win this game than waiting for heli's to become available.

IMHO the keyword is CULTURE, or it can be if we choose so. If the map looks anything like the previous one- that is, it has at least one narrow channel - an island jump through cultureflip is possible. We can then proceed with conquering that island.

Consider also that a cultural victory is allowed in this game. I don't have any experience with this type of victory though, but maybe of you has. If we focus on culture early in the game, we keep this option open.

A third possibility of gaining a foothold on enemy islands, is of course getting an enemy to gift a city. Therefore we must be at war and they must fear us very much :)

edit: typo's & third possibility.

Consider also that a cultural victory is allowed in this game.
Cultural victory is turned on, but it not a valid victory for the teams... only conquest victories can get awards.. culture is left in there as a way to loose to the AIs :)

I had to edit my re-write my first post because I was starting to talk about a Culture victory, too, Mr. Y. :)

But I like the thinking along the lines of the next two points. It's certainly something we can shoot for instead of just sitting around and waiting for helos. Still, until airports come up we aren't going to be able to move anything to any culture flipped cities; they will be stuck on their own.

It may be better to keep our efforts on a bee-line for helos.

There's that word again. What do you mean by 'bee-line'? I assume you mean 'the most efficient way towards that tech'.

OK, so no cultural victories. Let's stall the argument for now until we know if there are any small canals at all. First priority after settling is exploring the island anyway.

As for settling, I'm not sure about SE yet. I like SW as well. Let's decide after the scout reaches the mountain top.

So what's the order for this little shindig?

Team Tim: joetheblah, mr. Y, pindicator, SesnOfWthr, Tboy, TimBentley. Playing C3C.

Note that Tim won't be able to play until about August 15, and TBoy is on holiday, but i'll be back on August 8th. I sent an e-mail to joetheblah.

I suggest we get this game going. Let's keep the order from the sign-upthread, skipping joetheblah until he posts here. That means I get to start, unless there are any objections.

I'll post a screenshot from the view from the top of the mountain before doing anything else.

Checking in. I don't have anything to add to immediate or general strategy at this time, so I'll just muse about the possibility of sharing the island with a strong AA opponent, with AIs with late UUs on other islands. mr. Y starting it is fine.

Yeah, take us away, Mr. Y

Allright, game on!
I sent the scout 2W; no resources in view yet but a lot of fertile land to grow on. My instincts tell me to expand northwards first because we are relatively close to the southpole.

The choice SW-SE is the most important to make at this moment. I suggest we vote, unless someone in our team feels like doing some elaborate computations involving Excelsheets and such.

I vote SW, reason: simple numbers: 2 food + 1 gold is more income than 1 food + 1 shield. The sheep will become available after 10 turns as well. As for the rest the tiles are more or less the same.

Also, I tend to value food more than shields in the beginning of the game. I must admit I don't have as much experience in CIV III as in CIV II, so if any of you can figure out the best spot to set up a settler factory, share your views!

I'll continue the game in a bit more than 24 hours.

No SGOTM would be complete without at least one screw-up :( This one's down to me.

The Bug

Those who played SGOTM7 may recall that the C3C Differential Naval Movement implementation was faulty. Ships still had the strange C3C default of ignoring movement cost on Sea tiles, so they treated sea as ocean, and were able to surf around the offshore waters at speed. Well, guess who forgot to get this fixed before SGOTM8 :blush:

The Impact

"Why would Hydrophobic Americans with no boats care?", I hear someone ask. Well the AI will probably have a point of view about your plans for world conquest, and their fast-moving ships could be a source of later-game problems for you.

The Cure

I therefore propose to edit the C3C team saves to correct this potential problem and restore the Sea movement cost to 2 instead of 1. To do this I need you to pause your play after you upload your next file, and PM to let me know it is available for editing. I'll endeavour to fix it, and let you know, within 24 hours so that you can continue your game. If your current save on the server has not been downloaded and played then let me know and I can, of course, fix it immediately.

I apologise for this oversight and any resulting inconvenience.

Could we just have AlanH fix the starting save? Its not like we've done anything spectacular with our moves so far.

As for town location, I vote for SE. The sheep can be irrigated immediately to give us +3 food +1 shield on that tile, we give ourselves more than enough trees in our city radius to quick-chop any buildings, and we prevent ourselves from working any coastal tiles that we can't get to +2 food thanks to a harbor.

Along those lines, it is a bit early to be planning out where to settle. If we share our island (which I'm sure we do), I am all for aggresively settling to claim as much as the island as possible. However, I think we should keep in mind that our cities will be becoming large cities. We will not win until well after hospitals, so I suggest a CxxxC style of development with minimal overlap. Which is another reason to put the starting city SE instead of SW.

Could we just have AlanH fix the starting save? Its not like we've done anything spectacular with our moves so far.
There's no rush. The bug only affects boats that can be built after MapMaking appears. Please let me know when Mr Y posts the next save.

Just posted 1st save; pindicator is next.
Have PM'ed AlanH.

Washington
I settled SE, we have a granary and a warrior. We are researching writing.

Geometry
I sent scout north. To the west there is a narrow channel. To the north there is a natural border in the form of an mountain range and a LOT of jungle. There's also one type of luxury to be found in the jungle. In the mountains are two huts, I choose to ignore them for now.
In the eplored fertile area south of these mountains there is room for about three cities. There probably is some more room to the south but we haven't explored there yet.

Neighbours
We're not alone, at least two others are on the island. We have made contact with a Greek hoplite in the north in 3300 BC (walked away north), and discovered another border last turn (no contact yet). We sold pottery to Greece for 31 gc. They wouldn't trade for tech, although they have Bronze working, Alphabet and Warrior Code.

We need to discuss city positioning and techpriorities.

I suggest Washington produces only settlers and the occasional worker, while the first new city builds a scout first (for southward exploration) and two or three warriors next for defense and to collect the huts.

For the second city I suggest the red dot. After that, we could build one or two more cities until the mountains. This is a major choice. If we choose two, I have a preference for one of them to be built on the blue spot, for reasons of cultural cross-islandflipping.

As for tech prio's, I don't really have a clue as to what is most important at the moment.

Your 3000 BC save is now fixed. Go for it, Team Tim :)

Hail AlanH, Fixer of Saves!

Got it and first impressions of looking at the save...

--Why not pop the huts? We are expansionist after all. We only leave them for the AI to possibly pop them and they might have given us techs for trade leverage with Greece and other AIs.

--I do agree that we need to push for the chokehold and northward as soon as we can. However, I think the red dot is a very poor spot to pick for a second city. It only has one +2 food tile in its immediate radius and will not be able to grow without a bit of help.

Where I would settle next would be E-SE of the blue dot (the blue dot currently completely misses the bonus tile!). We can mine the bonus desert tile for a +2 food, +2 shield tile, irrigate the floodplains and work the forest for +2fpt, +5spt at size 3.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Tim_SG008_BC3000_OptionalDotMap.jpg

This location also compliments the red dot better, giving us less overlap later in the game when our cities are production monsters and we're waiting for those helocoptors to come around.

(I was just thinking... it'd be really mean if Scandinavia was just across a straight from us. And because this is an Xotm that makes it very likely... :( )

Oh, how many turns am I playing? I don't think I've ever gone as early as 2nd before in a SG. Either way, I'll wait for discussion and play tonight or tomorrow.

nice pic! What application did you use for that?

I waited with the huts because I didn't want those raging barbarians to kill off our only scout. Your remark implies that the chance of barbs appearing from huts is reduced or at best eliminated if your civ is expansionistic. I did not realize that, I am not too experienced in civ III (all the more in civ II but that will not help us) to know those kind of details but learning them fast. Next time I'll check better before proceeding.

So... let's collect those bonuses as soon as possible. Send the first warrior to collect them?

I'd choose the blue dot only if we decide to squeeze two cities up there instead of one. Otherwise your layout seems perfect. I still tend to prefer a somewhat tighter build, because the lack of overlap with our potential 'monster cities' will only benefit us late in the game, when they have grown to their full potential. Also I am still enthralled by the idea of a cultural islandjump.

Let's settle on the red dot but wait for the other teammembers to give their opinion before building the third city.

About the number of turns: I only played one SGOTM before (last month). In that game the first player took 20 turns, and after that all played 10 turns each time. But we can make any arrangement we choose.

What's with Scandinavia by the way?

CivAssistII (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=118540) is my utility of choice. It doesn't show any more information than you can find by wading through all the F* information scrolls in the game and even gives a few useful calculation add-ons, like palace-jump, cultural win calculations, and others. And, my favorite, it allows an easy tool for dot-mapping.

Yeah, the wonderful part of being expansionist is that we can't pop barbs from huts. What I will probably do is pick the warrior out of Washington to escort the settler to wherever the team decides our 2nd city goes, and once the city is down I will move the warrior north to pick up the huts. If you look at the scores from the uploads page, it looks like a team was even lucky enough to get a settler popped out of one of the huts, as their score shot up considerably in the first 20 turns (or they may have put a settler out first, who knows really?)

And as for Scandinavia, their Berzerk UU is a beefed up Longbow, but the part that would be potentially bad for us is that they have Amphibious attack. Imagine having them across a straight from us and we have to weather berserk attacks with no way to counter them? The computer is fairly competent with berserkers, too, from what I hear.

I saw AlanH post in the maintenance thread about SGOTM turn-lengths; I'll take the standard 10 unless we really want to be different :p

If you look at the scores from the uploads page, it looks like a team was even lucky enough to get a settler popped out of one of the huts, as their score shot up considerably in the first 20 turns (or they may have put a settler out first, who knows really?)

If you are referring to Peanut's line, this is just an artificial effect due to the fact that they posted a save at around turn 10. Most teams didn't post until turn 20, and the graph just plots straight lines between score points for successive saves. During the first 20 turns a straight line is a gross approximation to the actual score graph, so additional intermediate saves like Peanut's reduce the error. Peanut's score is similar to everyone else's when they reached 3000 BC.

Ah, thanks for clearing up my head. While you're at it...

nah, it's too big a task for any one person. I just keep too much junk up there! :D

pindicator...

SesnOfWthr has not posted since 7 days ago.
Tboy announced he had time to play from the 8th, haven't read from him yet.
I PM'd joetheblah; he replied he had trouble getting into our team thread. I e-mailed him a direct link two days ago but he still hasn't shown himself.

Our teamleader TimBentley might still join us after the 15th. Until then, it seems we're the only two active players in our team :(

I don't feel like waiting anymore, that takes the spirit out of it for me. I suggest we take turns playing until one of the others turns up.

I'm sorry to see you guys are having trouble with your other team members. I'm pretty sure TimBentley will show as promised, but do you want me to try to rustle up some replacements for joetheblah and/or Tboy and/or SesnOfWthr?

I'm sorry guys. I had a bit of a familiy emergency and was out yesterday moving a family member into the hospital. Thought I was going to be able to take it this morning, but there are a couple things that need to be done first. Fairly certain I will be able to get to it this afternoon, however.

Edit: Scratch that, it's early enough in the game I think I can fit them in now.

Inherited Turn
Woohoo, a worker left over for moi. I think he'll road to our next city.

1) 2950BC
Contact China. They are up BW, Alph, and WC. Greece is up all those plus The Wheel, but we don't have the cash for a two-fer.

3) 2850BC
See Greece's borders. Him and China are right next to each other, and hopefully subject to several wars before this is all through.

5) 2750BC
Washington: Settler->Warrior.
I'm going to wait to settle the red dot, Mr. Y. I just think the better second city is to the north.
Greece has China pinched tight. China only seems to have one city; I'll put a screenshot up for everyone to see.

8) 2630BC
Washington: Warrior->Settler.
We see a bit of those raging barbs. Settle New York and disperse a camp for 25g. Barely a safe move.
Worker is moving back to DC, until it's safer to work up north.

10) 2550BC
Our warrior holds off all barbs and promotes to elite.
Learn Alphabet. Set to Writing, due in 34.
Send warrior north, but we may want to just send him back. The closest hut as been popped, and I suspect the other one has been, too. Plus another barb is spotted to the north.

Our worker was in DC when the barbs hit, and silly me I hit space bar and canceled his movement this turn. New York needs improvements, but I'd have the worker instead road towards the red dot for the settler due out in 3. New York can build its own worker.

I think we want to explore to the south as much we can. There's some good land down there and we might want to grab it to have a few good core cities before we push northward.

I saw a settler go into Beijing, but I haven't seen it nor a new city in 5 turns since.

I've got a pic of our lands. Notice the mini-map and how China is hemmed in with one city between Greeks and jungle. We may end up with a giant Greece to the north.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_BC2550_01.SAV)

Sorry guys, I have been periodically checking the thread, but didn't see that it was my turn yet, so hadn't posted anything.

My weekends are generally kinda busy this time of year, so don't expect to hear a ton from me then.

At any rate, I'll assume this is my turn and post my "got it". Will try to have the turns up sometime tonight. :)

ok...
SesnOfWthr, good to see you're still with us. Don't be afraid to post your views on general strategy here.

If you haven't played yet: send the warrior north to lure the barb into attacking. The mountain will make sure we win when defending and we might get a leader. When the barb has gone, go and pop the hut if it's still there.

Don't build settlers or workers in New York, build them only in DC. This is the most efficient in terms of food (we have a granary there). Build only warriors in NY and the next city for now. Use the first we can spare for exploration south.

send the warrior north to lure the barb into attacking. The mountain will make sure we win when defending and we might get a leader.

Is this a new mod too? Last I knew, you couldn't get a leader from barbs ......

@team - I am having a small problem with the mod installation and have contacted Alan about. Please bear with me, I haven't forgotten about this.

No, you can't get a leader by fighting barbs in any civ3 game as far as I know.

I've replied to your PM.

Sorry guys, I have been periodically checking the thread, but didn't see that it was my turn yet, so hadn't posted anything.

My weekends are generally kinda busy this time of year, so don't expect to hear a ton from me then.

At any rate, I'll assume this is my turn and post my "got it". Will try to have the turns up sometime tonight. :)Hi, I'm here. Someone tell me when it's my turn. I'm scared.

haha :lol:

I think you're up right after Sesn, joe. Or maybe before if he can't get the SGOTM mod to work. In any case, you haven't missed much.

I think Alan has straightened me out, so I should be able to get the turns in tonight.

If not, I'll post in a couple hours that I am still having trouble.

OK, Alan having straightened me out, I can finally get these turns done.

IT – Another barb comes out of the NW.

2510 BC (1) – Send the worker to start a road to new city site. Fortify Ewarrior where he is.

2470 BC (2) – Worker starts roading.

IT – China plants two cities.

2430 BC (3) – Settler finishes, start warrior. Our scout ends next to a barb. :(

IT – Barb of course kills our poor scout.

2390 BC (4) – NY warr -> scout.

2350 BC (5) – I fear I may have to attack the barbs on the mountains.

2310 BC (6) – Wash warr -> worker. Send the new warrior S, see a couple more GH’s. Boston founded, starts a scout for now. I take a chance and attack a barb on a mountain, winning with a loss of 1hp.

IT – Second barb attacks and loses flawlessly.

2270 BC (7) – Fort S warrior to ready for a barb. Start irrigation near Boston.

IT – Forted war wins flawless.

2230 BC (8) – Wash worker -> warr. Northern GH is indeed gone.

2190 BC (9) – NY Scout -> warr. Send scout N. S warr pops a hut and gets maps.

2150 BC (10) – Worker finishes first irrigation, starts second.

Recap: Well, things are going, though we aren’t exactly blazing along. Writing is due in 12 @ -1 gpt. I would recommend peeling a worker out of NY when the warrior finishes. Make sure there is a unit in Boston before we pop the other hut. Oh, and somewhere along the line that I missed, China lost one of their cities.

>>>SAVE<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_BC2150_01.SAV)

Well, here is what we know so far .....

Well, here is what we know so far .....Is it my turn? If so, any commentary or suggestions?

I'd say you're enthused enough to up next, Joe. We haven't heard much from anyone else lately

mr. Y
pindicator
SesnOfWthr
joethreeblah -- Up!
TimBentley -- On deck
TBoy -- Yet to check in

Order look good enough to everyone?

Why wait to pop the hut, Sesn? Afraid a tech might come out? :D

My current idea for settling the south:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Tim_SG008_BC2150_SouthernCities.jpg

I hate to waste a BG, but these choices seem to fit better with the land we have. Moving the orange city SE would leave two unavailable grassland tiles between it and Boston and scrunch the green city.

To the east of Washington, I think we have one tile due east of that last visible forest to place a city on; I doubt there's anything more in that direction. Also, it appears there may be more to the south past the mountains.

I would settle one more city to the south before starting a northward push. But with Greece and China at war, we can really capitalize on a northward push, so something like 4 cities north of the mountains can easily be obtainable I think.

As for my suggestions what to do over the next ten turns, I would definitely pop a worker out of New York after this next warrior finishes; it needs to develop and DC needs to get settlers out.

Why wait to pop the hut, Sesn? Afraid a tech might come out? :D

My current idea for settling the south:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Tim_SG008_BC2150_SouthernCities.jpg

I hate to waste a BG, but these choices seem to fit better with the land we have. Moving the orange city SE would leave two unavailable grassland tiles between it and Boston and scrunch the green city.

To the east of Washington, I think we have one tile due east of that last visible forest to place a city on; I doubt there's anything more in that direction. Also, it appears there may be more to the south past the mountains.

I would settle one more city to the south before starting a northward push. But with Greece and China at war, we can really capitalize on a northward push, so something like 4 cities north of the mountains can easily be obtainable I think.

As for my suggestions what to do over the next ten turns, I would definitely pop a worker out of New York after this next warrior finishes; it needs to develop and DC needs to get settlers out.
I like your ideas, and it seems like a good plan. I'm wondering if we should push north sooner to try to monopolize all that luxary thing up there. The other thing I'm worried about is Boston producing another scout. Do we need this? It seems the areas we need to explore have a lot of mountains and forests and what not.

Going north right away is very tempting. I'm thinking I'd want one more core city built first, but it may be the better choice to go north right away and fill in to the south afterwards, picking up the most land.

My ideas - short version:
no more scouts, change the ones that are being built.
settle north first; try to monopolize the lux.

Even shorter version:
I agree with Joe

What is a BG?

Long version:
- change Washington to settler. We must not waste turns building military in our settler factory. keep a close eye on it, micromanage for optimal results (don't unnecessarily loose shields when build completes.)
- Change boston to warrior
- send the warrior in the south to pop the hut and after that on exploration south.

First of all (and this is so important that I am kicking myself for not doing it during my turns) go to the governor and turn on emphasize production. Set this as default for all cities.

BG = bonus grassland

Do not switch the Warrior in DC, and I'll tell you why as well as in great elaboration. :crazyeye:

Currently DC has 4 food left until growth and 8 shields in its production box. It pulls in 7fpt and 4spt.

If you switch to a settler immediately, you can track DC's production and growth as follows:


Turn | Food | Shields

0 | 16 | 8
1 | 19 | 12
2 | 20 | 18 -- New citizen from the pop growth will work forest tile for +6 shields only for certain if we have emphasize production turned on.
3 | 13 | 23 -- New citizen switched from forest to plains (currently being irrigated)
4 | 16 | 28
5 | 19 | 33

Which drops our pop down to 1 for a turn and wastes 3 shields. Granted, after the pop change you can keep the citizen on the forest tile and get the settler out a turn earlier with no wasted shields. But you now have two turns that DC is at pop 1.

If you keep DC on the warrior and then build a settler, you get this:

Turn | Food | Shields

0 | 16 | 8
1 | 19 | 10 -- MM DC citizen off of mined BG and onto roaded flood plain to pick up additional commerce. Warrior completes IT.
2 | 20 | 6 -- New citizen from the pop growth will work forest tile for +6 shields only for certain if we have emphasize production turned on.
3 | 12 | 12 -- Keep new citizen on forest tile for first two turns (explained later)
4 | 14 | 18
5 | 17 | 23 -- Switch DC citizen working forest onto the irrigated plains.
6 | 20 | 30 -- On growth, new citizen will work forest for +7 shields this turn.

Now, by keeping the warrior first we have several important differences. First of all, DC never hits size one. I don't think DC should ever hit size one pop if we can help it. If we had a luxury around I'd say it should never hit size two, 2 luxuries then size 3 and so on. The idea is to keep DC at the highest population possible while it pumps out settlers so we pull in the most amount of commerce and production while the settler factory is running. Secondly, there is no shield waste at all. Third, we get an extra warrior out for MP duty / exploring / barb defense at a cost of only 1 turn. It takes a little MM to do, but it is definitely the best course of action IMO.

We can and should set up DC as an 8-turn settler factory by keeping this pattern:

Turn | Food | Pop |Shields

0 | 10 | 2 | 0
1 | 13 | 2 | 4
2 | 16 | 2 | 8
3 | 19 | 2 | 10 -- warrior completes
4 | 20 | 3 | 6
5 | 12 | 3 | 12
6 | 14 | 3 | 18
7 | 17 | 3 | 23
8 | 20 | 4 | 30 -- settler completes

As you can see, DC is currently on turn 2 of this pattern. Please do not de-rail it as it is our quickest way of efficiently getting settlers out.

wow, nice work.
insightful, elaborate and convincing.
I do want to elaborate on this though, putting trade into the calculations, and extending them to span more cycles. In the first example we build a settler in 6 turns instead of 8. That is a huge difference (25%). In this stage growth (quick expansion/settlement) is the key factor. I don't care that much about a warrior, but the extra trade seems important. So I'd like to make some calculations as to how big the difference is. I'll post again in <12 hours.
Joe, please hold off playing until then, if you haven't already started..

wow, nice work.
insightful, elaborate and convincing.
I do want to elaborate on this though, putting trade into the calculations, and extending them to span more cycles. In the first example we build a settler in 6 turns instead of 8. That is a huge difference (25%). In this stage growth (quick expansion/settlement) is the key factor. I don't care that much about a warrior, but the extra trade seems important. So I'd like to make some calculations as to how big the difference is. I'll post again in <12 hours.
Joe, please hold off playing until then, if you haven't already started..Mr. Y,
Sorry I've started already...

Mr. Y,
Sorry I've started already...I should have my thing posted by tomorrow. As soon as I get up the nerve to tell you all my screwups. You might as well burn your charts though.

well, that's the funny part about planning. You get into the game and it can all be for naught.

I'm trying to understand what your argument is, Mr. Y. The limiting factor on building settlers is the rate of food from DC. We cannot build a settler faster than every 8 turns. And as for keeping commerce high, that's why I was stressing not letting DC drop down to 1 population while making settlers.

I should have my thing posted by tomorrow. As soon as I get up the nerve to tell you all my screwups. You might as well burn your charts though.

Lol!
Don't worry about it too much.
I managed to walk past two huts without popping them :blush:

@ pindicator:

I am still convinced that growth is far more important than commerce and military at the start of the game. So I'd be willing to give a lot of that up for a bit of extra food or building a settlement one turn quicker. But before I give anything up, I want to know how much I give up and what I get in return.

So I just wanted to have a complete picture, your 8-turn cycle is very elegant because it is a closed cycle. It also seems efficient. But the fact remains that in the other system we'd pop out a settler 2 turns sooner. I wanted to extrapolate a bit further and see what happened in the ~10 turns after that, how quickly the next settler after that could be built, and how much less trade it would yield in total - taking into account we'll have a settlement 2 turns earlier which will refund some of the lost trade etc.

At this point I lack the tools and the knowledge to do this study very quickly. I am still figuring out what happens exactly when a town grows - it seems the new shields are processed but the new trade is not. Also kicking the governor into production does not seem to make a difference in my tests. How do you come to the conclusion that we cannot build a settler in less than 8 turns?

Ah well, the question has become academic now anyway. After joe's turns we'll have only 1 city left. ;) j/k

Is it perhaps a good idea to build a second granary somewhere fast to have a second city that can help in expansion?

edit: grammar

:cry:
Can someone explain how to get a picture into the right place
THEYRE BURNING!

Joe:
when preparing a post, scroll down for "Additional options".
Choose manage attachments, browse to your image, upload it, post the message et voilà.

Inherited Turn
Boston: Changed to Warrior
Changed the governor to emphasize production

1) 2110BC
Washington: Warrior -> Settler
Sent the northern Warrior and Scout northward, and the southern warrior NW to hut.
Now my biggest mistake was right away. I forgot that the second citizen is sad, and I thought there would be an extra warrior in New York for when I sent the Washington Settler north eventually. So I figured it would be a good idea to send this new warrior in Washington to the east to explore a little bit. :cry:

2) 2070BC
Popped the hut in the south, giving me a "map of the region", which showed another hut on the next continent south, not much else.
My wandering Washington Warrior decided to have a peek over the mountain to the east. :mischief:

3) 2030BC
At this point, I reckon I've totally thrown off the pattern, because I had to calm the citizens. :sad:
The wandering warrior heads back west. :goodjob:

4) 1990BC
New York: Warrior -> Warrior
Washington Warrior gets back to work making citizens happy.

6) 1910BC
Boston: Warrior -> Warrior
Now there is one more citizen due in Washington next turn. I think he will cause a riot so I start one of the other guys telling jokes and such, and now this delays things by a couple turns. :confused:
Our scout meets a friend up north.

7) 1870BC
Barbarian kills scout

8) 1830BC
Our warrior down south comes accross a couple savages


9) 1770BC
Warrior kills both barbarians and gets promoted.
Washington: Settler - > Settler
Settler heads north.

10) 1750BC
Southern warrior runs into some more barbarians.
Southern warrior also discovers another luxury to the east
Settler arrives in New York

I'm having trouble fitting my pictures in here. Obviously there is a better way, I'm having to cut them way down. This is the south east.

This is the south west area, where a hut gave us a map of their region.
If someone wants to post the entire maps i'll remove these. Not sure how to reduce the size without cutting around everywhere.

This is the link for the next player
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_BC1750_01.SAV

Joe:
The problem is that you are posting bitmaps (.bmp). This format is always _very_ big.
Use your graphicsprogram to save them as jpg's, this will make a huge difference. You will have no problems anymore.

That didn't go so bad did it? You didn't even loose a town. ;)
I'll check the save later.

Joe:
The problem is that you are posting bitmaps (.bmp). This format is always _very_ big.
Use your graphicsprogram to save them as jpg's, this will make a huge difference. You will have no problems anymore.

That didn't go so bad did it? You didn't even loose a town. ;)
I'll check the save later.Thanks for the optimism. I felt like a jerk though. Maybe you can get some good pictures of our current cities up there. I think we might need to change New York to building a Temple..?

Some thoughts from the save:

First of all, no big screw ups seen. Nothing worse than I do to my games, at least ;) You had me scared I was going to see armaggedon in civ-form, joe. :lol:

Switch DC to a warrior. After the warrior finishes, then build settler to be timed to growth to size 4. Rinse, lather, repeat.

Why is our worker irrigating tiles that DC will not use? It will finish its current irrigation on the next IBT, so go ahead and let it. But DC is pumping settlers and probably will not get above size 4 until it is done doing so. Other more imperative tasks include improving the tiles around NY and roading to the future town site across the mountains.

New York does not need a temple yet. Instead it should definitely put out a worker next. We are losing production and growth by leaving it unimproved.

Slider can go to 50% so we don't waste beakers when writing comes in during the IBT. That will earn us 4 extra gold.

Wow, that's a lot of mountains to the south. I thought we'd be putting a city or two down there, but peering at the fog it looks like that is all for the south.

The Settler in NY should go N, N, N, NW and settle there, just across the mountains.

I would just like to point out that as of 1750 we're in first place among the 8 or 9 mediocre teams! :king:

The other 4 are probably doing some kind of crazy population bursting schemes that aren't going to work in this scenario, because winning is by date. :goodjob:

I think we have this pretty much locked. :scan:

PS - whoever put my name in the SGOTM thing came up with a cool new name for me (preventing me from saving for awhile til I figured it out): JoeTheBlah!

Bye

Haha, they misspelled a lot of people's names. I think there's something like 80 people in total in this SGOTM.

Not too much can be made from the scoring yet. If anything it should show us that we're just as much in the hunt as every other team. Except maybe that purple team! Wow, what did they do to shoot so high up? :eek:


mr. Y -- On Deck if TBoy doesn't check in first
pindicator
SesnOfWthr
joethreeblah
TimBentley -- Up!
TBoy -- On Deck? Yet to check in

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.I'm suspicious about that area to the east in the south. :nuke:

PS - whoever put my name in the SGOTM thing came up with a cool new name for me (preventing me from saving for awhile til I figured it out): JoeTheBlah!

Sorry, I'm "whoever", and I've fixed the error. You should submit future saves using your correct name.

@pindicator: If you are aware of any other misspellings I'd appreciate your input. I did make a point of asking for feedback on the lists in the Sign-up thread, and only two or three errors were flagged up.

Sorry, I'm "whoever", and I've fixed the error. You should submit future saves using your correct name.

@pindicator: If you are aware of any other misspellings I'd appreciate your input. I did make a point of asking for feedback on the lists in the Sign-up thread, and only two or three errors were flagged up.
:confused: :mischief: No offense calling you "whoever" :rolleyes: :blush:

I kind of like Joe - THE BLAH! :cool:

Sorry, I'm "whoever", and I've fixed the error. You should submit future saves using your correct name.

@pindicator: If you are aware of any other misspellings I'd appreciate your input. I did make a point of asking for feedback on the lists in the Sign-up thread, and only two or three errors were flagged up.

Sorry AlanH, I didn't really catch that myself. I've double checked and everyone else's name seems to be correct. Of course, I can't speak for Tboy because he hasn't even spoken for himself yet! :p

I'm back. I believe I'll be able to play tomorrow (and as such, I got it).

:)
Finally we're rolling.
Welcome back Tim. Had a good holiday? (I presume it was a holiday.)

So, the current issues - as already mentioned by pindicator:
1) Move workers north - improve NY!!!

2) Adjust slider to 50% research. We'll finish research on writing next turn. Don't forget to try to sell/trade it. We need to discuss what to research next. The choices are:
a) Bronze Working to get to Iron Working
b) The road to Monarchy
c) The road to Republic
d) anything else :)

3) Send the settler north and settle our 4th city. Am I mistaken or does pindicator's suggested location settle us in the jungle?

4) I propose building a second granary pronto in either NY or Boston and devote that city to workerbuilding. We're going to need a lot of them to clear all that jungle and building a granary now will benefit us a lot in the long run.

I have a hunch that the map might look something like this:

\\ /^\ /^_
|| \ . \ \ \
| | \ \ \ \ \ \
| \_| | \ \ | |
\____/ | || /
. . . . . \-_/

If you understand what I mean. (I hope this doesn't come out all garbled.)

3) Send the settler north and settle our 4th city. Am I mistaken or does pindicator's suggested location settle us in the jungle?

Exactly correct. :) This way it still has the BG tile to the NE that it can work immediately, and also fits in very well with NY's cultural borders.

As for tech, we want republic. When we do war against the AI it will be short and crushing. And our ultimate goal is to quickly research to get to Helos, so republic is our train to ride there.

ALL C3C TEAMS PLEASE NOTE:

The SGOTM framework for C3C has the following changes from the out-of-the-box rules:

- aluminium will appear when you research fission instead of rocketry
- uranium will appear when you research computers instead of fission

These mods were also in SGOTM 6 and 7 as well, but didn't really affect anyone. This game could be different :D

ALL C3C TEAMS PLEASE NOTE:

The SGOTM framework for C3C has the following changes from the out-of-the-box rules:

- aluminium will appear when you research fission instead of rocketry
- uranium will appear when you research computers instead of fission

These mods were also in SGOTM 6 and 7 as well, but didn't really affect anyone. This game could be different :DI guess there is an advantage to playing slow. Let everyone else work out the bugs.

I kind of like Joe - THE BLAH! :scan:

Welcome back Tim. Had a good holiday? (I presume it was a holiday.)Actually, I was at home between working on Mackinac Island and going to college (for marching band camp). The home computer doesn't have the latest patch, and my laptop has no way to access the internet there. But it was some nice relaxation time, nevertheless.


1750(0): Are Greece and China at war?
Switch New York to worker, Boston to barracks (we already have enough reg warriors)
science to 50%

IBT: learn writing, start on code of laws at 100% research
sell writing to China for the wheel, warrior code, bronze working, 43g
buy ceremonial burial from Greece for writing, 1g (clearly they were researching it)
both know iron working; China knows mysticism

1725(1): I believe the southern warrior has found the end of the penisula
There are horses on that tantalizingly close island, by Shanghai, and on the rubble up north

IBT: southern warrior survives barb attack

1700(2): southern warrior dies attacking barb camp

1675(3): northern warrior disperses barb camp

1650(4): zzz

IBT: Greece demands 24g, I give in
New York worker->worker

1625(5): lux to 10%
found Philadelphia in recommended spot, start on worker

IBT: Washington settler->warrior

1600(6): lux to 20%
northern warrior meets Toltec barb

1575(7): transfered a warrior from Washington to Boston, lux to 0%
get an extra gold in Washington

IBT: northern warrior survives barb attack; another barb died attacking the fog

1550(8): lux to 20%
:wallbash: 0+2+1-1=2, not 3 (desert olives shouldn't be irrigated)

IBT: Washington warrior->settler
New York worker->granary

1525(9): lux to 0%

1500(10): lux to 10%

Notes: Keep Washington at 5fpt until the settler is produced
The following settler should be produced in 4 turns, finishing as Washington grows to size 6
Following that, Washington can be a 5-turn settler factory
At size 4, it should work the lamb, BG, and 2 plains for 2 turns, then the lamb, a floodplain, the BG, and a plain for 1 turn
At size 5, it should work the lamb, 2 floodplains, the BG, and a plain for 2 turns
That produces an extra shield, so you should be able to get an extra gold at some point (probably one of the first two turns work a floodplain)

There's a settler in the north ready to go somewhere
Research philosophy after code of laws

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_BC1500_01.SAV).

mr. Y -- up
pindicator - on deck
SesnOfWthr
joethreeblah
TimBentley -- just played
TBoy?

Is it ok to download the save when it isn't your turn? I'm afraid to.

Yes (no problem doing only reversible stuff).

I'll try to play before the weekend.
I plan to:
- keep the settler factory running
- keep an eye on the lux slider
- use NY for workers (after granary finishes)
- All other cities: barracks first, then military
- try to trade techs with Greece or China

Any further instructions?

The following settler should be produced in 4 turns, finishing as Washington grows to size 6
I was thinking this sounded wrong last night, and if I've recalculated correctly, this would be short 2 shields. To finish the settler in 4 turns, it would need to be at 2fpt at size 5 for three turns.

You can either produce a warrior after the current settler (this would be 5 turns at 2fpt at size 5) or produce a warrior after the settler after that (this would be 2 turns at 2fpt at size 3). Either should get the settler factory in the proper position at size 4.

Nice turns Tim! I can't believe I wasn't thinking about the FP earlier; I thought DC couldn't grow faster than 3fpt. :rolleyes: But you definitely have a better settler factory drawn up.

What school do you march for? I just got suckered back to do the alumni band at Oregon State. Well, it's free admission for a few games, so it wasn't too hard a decision :p

Okay, looking at the save:

About the settler factory...

If we can find a BG underneath one of those forests, we can get a 4-turn settler factory going at pop 5-6. In fact, I think what we could do if for three circuits run a 4 turn settler-factory at pop 4-5 and time a worker chop to pick up 10 shields. If we find a BG, we can talk about changing the factory structure. This only applies to the forests east of DC; the one south is on a plains tile.

When the worker on the forest tile finishes roading, i would chop and then mine for a shield boost for DC. It currently isn't working the forest, so now is the best time. In fact, by stopping him now you can save an additional turn on the whole process (4 turns left to road + 4 turns to chop vs. 1 turn interrupted + 4 turns to chop + 2 turns to road).

Where's the next settler going? Do we want to tighten our cities in the north as we get closer to Greece and China? Or do we want to grab as much land with each city?

And we seem to be in good shape for a Republic slingshot. Keep on CoL as fast as you can and then do the same with Philo and hopefully we'll get to republic within the next 15 or so turns.

-----------------
I was thinking this sounded wrong last night, and if I've recalculated correctly, this would be short 2 shields. To finish the settler in 4 turns, it would need to be at 2fpt at size 5 for three turns.

You can either produce a warrior after the current settler (this would be 5 turns at 2fpt at size 5) or produce a warrior after the settler after that (this would be 2 turns at 2fpt at size 3). Either should get the settler factory in the proper position at size 4.

If we can find a BG underneath one of those forests, we can get a 4-turn settler factory going at pop 5-6. In fact, I think what we could do if for three circuits run a 4 turn settler-factory at pop 4-5 and time a worker chop to pick up 10 shields. If we find a BG, we can talk about changing the factory structure. This only applies to the forests east of DC; the one south is on a plains tile.

0+2+1-1=2, not 3 (desert olives shouldn't be irrigated)
----------------
I might be more usefull later on if I could understand any of these paragraphs.

Well, I can try to explain two of them for you, Joe. The great thing about SGs is that they are great learning tools for any level of player. The first two are Tim's calculations and I'm too lazy to check them. :p

Tim was talking about food with the numbers for the desert tile: 0 = base desert food, 2 = bonus given from the olives, 1 = bonus given from irrigating, and -1 is because in Despotism government any tile that earns 3 of anything, be it food, commerce, or shields, suffers a penalty of 1. So 0+2+1-1=2 is the total food we get from irrigating the desert tile. In other words, irrigation on that tile does nothing while we are in a despotism.

4-turn settler factories are the optimum for pumping out settlers, at least early in the game. Currently, if we were to start a settler running 5 food per turn in DC it would work 2 floodplain tiles, the irrigated lamb tile, the mined BG tile, and a plains. We'd have a production chart that looks like this:

turn |food | pop | shields
0 | 0 | 5 | 0
1 | 5 | 5 | 5
2 | 10 | 6 | 12
3 | 5 | 6 | 18
4 | 10 | 7 |26

in other words, after 4 turns, DC would grow the 2 population needed to produce a settler, but would be 4 shields short. (If you want me to explain the chart in greater detail, just ask.)

Now if we were to chop those trees east of DC, there is a chance there would be a BG tile under one of them. Then we can mine and road the BG tile in and work it in light of the plains, so at pop 5 DC would be working the lamb, 2 floodplains, and 2 BGs. The chart would then look like this:

turn |food | pop | shields
0 | 0 | 5 | 0
1 | 5 | 5 | 6
2 | 10 | 6 | 14
3 | 5 | 6 | 21
4 | 10 | 7 |30

Giving us a settler every four turns.

I appreciate that very much. I get it.

I'm assuming BG is some kind of bonus thing. Grass?

Yes, BG means bonus grassland. Don't feel bad if you don't understand me (sometimes I have the feeling that what I say is difficult to understand).

As for the first two questions, they were explaining how to best manage the cities to produce settlers efficiently (although pindicator's forest-chopping idea sounds better). The essential thing I was noting was the proper food excess to have.

I'll only expand on my first statement you quoted. The city when building the settler would start at size 4 with 5 food in the box, so here would be the production chart:

turn | food | pop | shields
0 | 5 | 4 | 0
1 | 0 | 5 | 6 (first turn had excess of 5 food per turn, got 6 shields counting the forest the new citizen worked)
2 | 2 | 5 | 14 (an excess of 2 food per turn, 8 shields per turn)
3 | 4 | 5 | 22
4 | 6 | 5 | 30

What school do you march for? I just got suckered back to do the alumni band at Oregon State. Well, it's free admission for a few games, so it wasn't too hard a decision :pOlivet Nazarene University; it's about an hour south of Chicago.

If we can find a BG underneath one of those forests, we can get a 4-turn settler factory going at pop 5-6. In fact, I think what we could do if for three circuits run a 4 turn settler-factory at pop 4-5 and time a worker chop to pick up 10 shields. If we find a BG, we can talk about changing the factory structure. This only applies to the forests east of DC; the one south is on a plains tile.I agree.

When the worker on the forest tile finishes roading, i would chop and then mine for a shield boost for DC. It currently isn't working the forest, so now is the best time. In fact, by stopping him now you can save an additional turn on the whole process (4 turns left to road + 4 turns to chop vs. 1 turn interrupted + 4 turns to chop + 2 turns to road).
You mean New York. I only mention this because it confused me for a minute.

A good city location might be NW of the closest dyes or E-SE of them.

You mean New York. I only mention this because it confused me for a minute.


Ah, yes. NY is what I meant. My mouth and my brain are never connected.

I just like to add that I appreciate the extra explanations as well.
I have limited experience in CIV III, so while I understand the basic concepts of settler factories, I had/have difficulties figuring out how to make the calculations the easiest way. (Even though I used to study math - a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away) You explanations clear a lot of the fog.

What is this school marching band thing? An aspect of USA culture that I am not aware of? What is a marching band, is it what I think it is: people playing copper instruments (trumpet, bugle etc.) and drums marching the streets? I used to do that, too, even longer ago and in a galaxy even further away :) In the Netherlands, bands are not bound to a specific school though, but more to a town or city.

edit: Oh, and by the way: CIV Assist really rocks!

mr. Y, I think you can go ahead and take it if you haven't already. We still haven't heard anything from Tboy.

Most major US colleges have marching bands. Some schools they are just compliments to the football teams. Others with more of a tradition in the sport attend competitions, especially down in the southern US. The school I went to had its program cut about ten years ago, so they are building up the program again, but the biggest thing we would ever do would be to host the state high school championships every other year. We only the self-satisfaction that we played better than the other school's team come gameday. :)

Shall I remove Tboy from your roster?

Ok, I think I have a plan on how to win this thing

Whoops, that didn't work.

Ok, I've made a little chart graph showing what I think we need to do to bag this game.

Please see the attachment below.

The fastest conquest wins, not the highest score ;)

The fastest conquest wins, not the highest score ;)I think we'd have to be conquesting pretty fast for such a change in gears. :goodjob:

I kind of like Joe - THE BLAH! :scan:

mr. Y, I think you can go ahead and take it if you haven't already. We still haven't heard anything from Tboy.

Most major US colleges have marching bands. Some schools they are just compliments to the football teams. Others with more of a tradition in the sport attend competitions, especially down in the southern US. The school I went to had its program cut about ten years ago, so they are building up the program again, but the biggest thing we would ever do would be to host the state high school championships every other year. We only the self-satisfaction that we played better than the other school's team come gameday. :)I wouldn't mind if we sped the rotation up a little bit. :mischief:

I kind of like Joe - THE BLAH! :rolleyes:

Shall I remove Tboy from your roster?
Well, he didn't respond to my PM I sent two days ago (and he's been on today), so I suppose you could.

Done. Just let me know if you want to reinstate him, or to add another player.

Done. Just let me know if you want to reinstate him, or to add another player.I have a willing sub for the next go round if yall want one.

IBT - Greece forces us to move away our troops - DC expands revealing a hut SE

1 -1475
switch Philly form worker to barracks

IBT
Kyoto completes the oracle
warrior North survives barb attack
Greece marches with stack 2x hoplite, archer + elite warrior
Chinese found Nanking

2 -1450
change lux to 20%
start moving workers back to DC to chop

IBT
Boston finishes barracks

3 -1425
A barbcamp appears NE from lux, 2 tiles from where I wanted to settle (E SE from lux)
Our warrior stands next to it,the settler remains behind. I decide against settling 2 tiles from the camp, since we have no spear yet.
This will cost us a few turns :(

IBT
chop finishes in NY
northern warrior survives YABA (yet another barb attack) while at 1/5. This guy is even more indestructible than Keith Richards!

4 -1400
workers arrive at Settler factory
a warrior sets out to check out the hut

IBT
DC finishes settler
There's no way to reach the north part of the island anymore without going through Greek or Chinese territory.
We still have StrongerthanKeith up there though.

5 -1375

I decide move the new settler south, until we have better defense, what with the barbcamp and all.

IBT
nothing nada niente niks nop nichts noppes nakka

6 -1350
nothing nada niente niks nop nichts noppes nakka

IBT 1st chop DC finishes, no BG

7 -1325
DC is now size 5; since we are short of warriors I must move lux to 40%
This is not such a problem this turn, because we need only 50% science to complete CoL.
Next settler takes only 8 shields,so I decide to work 2 tiles of forest to complete it next turn and be able to reduce lux.
With the next chop coming the turn after that, we can finish a warrior right after that.
Warrior pops hut SE for 50 gc.
Atlanta founded.

IBT
DC finishes Settler.
A lot of alarmbells go off.
1) China sends an archer + spearman south they're 4 tiles from Philly now - hopefully they'll fight with the barbs.
2) A barb horse appears 2SE from Atlanta, which is defended by 1 warrior only. This is going to cost us.
tech: CoL->Philosophy

8 -1300
The new settler goes north
workers set out to work some land in Atlanta

IBT
Greece is still moving military
2nd DC chop finishes and reveal a BG

9 -1275
movement

IBT
Barb horse attacks and loses from our warrior. pfew...
DC grows to 4 and finishes spearman

10 -1250
move settler into settling position.
move the new spear south to aid in the defense of Atlanta. I expect a lot of barb attacks from there. Fortify it on the mountain SE and no barbs will get through.
move some more units.
trade with Greece: they give Iron Working + 65 gc for CoL
trade with China: They give Mysticism for CoL + 29gc.

There is 1 visible source of Iron on the island. It's in the utter north.
No iron, no horses... this is going to be fun.

pointers:
- The northest settler + warrior can settle on the spot.
- In the north we have planned 3 more towns, as you can e on the map. There is another settler on its way there. The accompanying defense unit (spearman) is a bit behind. You can solve this by moving the spear into NY, and then sending the NY warrior to acompany the settler. This saves some time.
- There is a barbcamp 1NE from the closest lux, or there was, for some Chinese units are wandering there.
- DC is almost in shape for a 4-turn SF, after 3 turns the BG is mined. DC will have finished its intermediate warrior by then and be at size 5. I think this is exactly the way we wanted it, but correct me if I'm wrong.
- It is very important to pay attention to the lux slider and the positions of out units for MP EVERY TURN. Be creative with it for we must stretch our millitary resources a bit.
- Consider poprushing the granary in NY. We need more workers...
- I think we want a colony on the lux in the mountains south. This will add these mountains to our field of vision and prevent barbcamps from popping up. He current camp needs to be mopped up first though.

In general:
- Let multiple workers improve the same tile if possible. This yields quicker results than 2 workers improving 2 seperate tiles.

pindicator up.
then Sesn, Joe the Blah, Tim

I don't mind playing with a team of 5.
But if there's someone who wants to join he's welcome as far as I'm concerned.

Nice turns and nice dotmap. That's about what I came up with, even if they seem at odd positions in the north.

I'd imagine the Chinese troops are just hunting barbs. Unless we have an undefended city up there (which we shouldn't).

The good news is that the horses are on China's border town. With a determined attack, I'm sure we can get them.

It's either that, or LBs, Spears, & Trebs are going to be our attack force.

Edit: Got it and will play tomorrow.

The dotmap is in fact yours, pindicator. I only added one extra town in the north. I was more or less forced to, because of the barbs. Our settler is at that very spot now, and you can settle it in your first turn.

I only learned about the mechanics of the so-called 'Republic-slingshot' today. I trust you know all about it? If it's going to happen, it'll probably happen in one of your last turns.

The dotmap is in fact yours, pindicator. I only added one extra town in the north.

:lol:

Uh, yeah. I knew that... :crazyeye:

:lol:

Uh, yeah. I knew that... :crazyeye:

oh duh, ok.
well, don't blame me I'm only Dutch.
:p

All of your points are very good, mr. Y. I especially like how you moved the settler as far north as possible to create a choke. Now we need to fill in the back as quickly as possible.

Let's see. We are down Poly to China and up Mysticism to Greece. It almost looks like China is the top dog of the two civs now; completely different than I would have guessed from my last turns.

The land around New York is still poorly done. It looks like the AI did the improvement, guys. Two tiles have been mined/irrigated but not roaded? That wastes a lot of worker-turns, and early on is when the worker-turns matter most.
Also, I think the forest chop has to be within the cultural borders of NY to add to the city. I'm going to cancel it and have the worker make NY a better place.

Change Boston to a Warrior; we need MPs. Atlanta gets switched to a warrior and Philly to an archer for the same reason. I dont' like building barracks in towns that have so little shield production, anyway.
Warrior from Atlanta moves north to MP a city. Science up to 70%. Hire scientists in Boston and New York; Philo is due in 7.

IBT-

China comes farther south.

1) 1225BC
Found Chicago. Production set to warrior.

IBT-

DC: Warrior->Settler

2) 1200BC
I can't imagine China attacking us this early. They must be after barbs. But Atlanta is in the way of them going after them, so we may be stuck with Chinese soldiers in our backyard for a while.

IBT-
No good! They declare! :eek:

Philly is captured and our settler inside is gone, too.

3) 1175BC
Serious trouble here. New York is switched to a barracks. Atlanta is switched back to a barracks.

Chicago is probably doomed. DC will complete it's current settler and then switch to a barracks as well.

All our spears are heading north. We need archers badly now.

IBT-
New York: Barracks->Archer

4) 1150BC
Build an embassy with Greece. Dang, we are close to an MA deal against China.
I think we better hold off til Philo comes in. Either way, we should be able to tempt Greece with that.

5) 1125BC
Nada

IBT-
DC: Settler->Barracks
Dang, just as soon as we get our settler factory going, now we need troops to storm China.

6) 1100BC
Quiet up around China. Not even Chicago sees trouble yet.

IBT-
Boston: Archer->Archer
Chops come through to rush Atlanta Barracks

7) 1075BC
Our warrior up north is watching a tremendous amount of barbs run past. Hopefully they head to China.

IBT-
Philo is ours, but no slingshot. I set research to math. I think we need some cats if we are going to pay China back.

8) 1050BC
Greece still wants an exorberant amount of gold for an Alliance. I'd consider giving them Philo for it, but they have Map Making now, so I pick that up instead.
Trade Greece Philo for Map Making + 23g (max value).

9) 1025BC
We found Seattle.

IBT-
Chicago is burned :thumbdown

Atlanta: Barracks->Archer

10) 1000BC
This has got to be the most depressing QSC I've ever submitted.

Okay, so we are definitely not out of this. Just hit a speed bump. China has taken a city, burned a city, and captured a settler (my bad, I should have played that one safer) but they have yet to show themselves over the mountains. I think now that Chicago is burned that will change.
Greece won't sign an MA against China unless we pay everything we have.

DC is currently running 10spt. I've got it on slow growth because I don't want to deal with happiness issues. It'd be nice to road the forest and road/mine the hill I have it working, but those are very low priority.
What we can also do with DC is put another settler out after the barracks comes up; this will time with growth to 7 and we can fit a city in E-2SE of DC. Not many other places to cram in cities, unless we want to go ICS.
What I would do is pump archers like crazy and when Math comes in grab some cats two. A couple spears for defense (not many, like 2 or 3) combined with a stack of archers and cats and we take China as far as we can. Sign up Greece if they ever lower their price enough.

In fact, I'd switch Seattle to a spearman. Use that as a pre-build for catapults when we get math.

AlanH said he thought this one would challenge all of our Civ skills. Looks like he wasn't kidding.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_BC1000_01.SAV)

We can probably take China anyway, without giving any of that territory to Greece. :mischief:

I kind of like Joe - THE BLAH! :scan:

What program do you guys use to save these as JPG's or whatever :confused:

I just do a printscreen and then past it onto MSPaint :cry: and the only choice is JPG :crazyeye:

EDIT: The only choice is BMP, which is too large

Ok, seeing as how we just lost two of our cities :nuke: this might not be the most opportune time to talk about this but.. :mischief:

I loaded the last save file to take a look, and I noticed the other hut in the north, about two squares from our land side. Of course, there is the one in the south west as well. :cool:

:scan: Has anyone considered :scan: putting cities right on the closest edge to those huts, and then :goodjob: ing the culture, on the off chance :confused: that they will produce a settler or city? :eek:

:crazyeye: Just a thought.. :king:

What program do you guys use to save these as JPG's or whatever

I just do a printscreen and then past it onto MSPaint and the only choice is JPG

EDIT: The only choice is BMP, which is too largeIf you click save as and click file type, JPEG should be one of the options.

Ok, seeing as how we just lost two of our cities :nuke: this might not be the most opportune time to talk about this but.. :mischief:

I loaded the last save file to take a look, and I noticed the other hut in the north, about two squares from our land side. Of course, there is the one in the south west as well. :cool:

:scan: Has anyone considered :scan: putting cities right on the closest edge to those huts, and then :goodjob: ing the culture, on the off chance :confused: that they will produce a settler or city? :eek:

:crazyeye: Just a thought.. :king:Well it won't produce a settler (it would be interesting if it produced a worker; I guess it could explore its island), but that may be a worthwhile idea. I've wondered if a city could appear two tiles from a city; I'll test that after testing if Shakespeare's Theater adds 16 to the AI's value of technology to research next as well as an aqueduct and hospital (don't worry if you didn't understand that sentence).

It's too bad about losing the cities; I'll comment more when I have a chance to look at the save (edit: I almost forgot I was going to a wedding tomorrow, so maybe not). By the way, SesnOfWthr is up.

hm... not good. :S
Let's build only military for a while (poprush a bit as well) and see what we can come up with for the counterstrike. During the buildup it seems sensible to put one spear on the mountain SE from Atlanta, and 1 on a mountain next to Philadelphia.

edit: Oh, and please, change our newest city from worker to something else, that will change into a catapult after math. I don't think we need any more workers. It's archers, spearmen and pults for now.

Something I wanted to explain about the unroaded-but-irrigated tiles near NY: I took them away without roading first. I did that deliberately, for I felt the team prioritized the chops near DC for our 4-turn SF. Not roading saved us three or four workerturns total I think. Only one of the tiles was used in NY.
Normally, I never leave a tile without roading. Just to let you know.

Definitely build military. Lots of archers, a few spears, plenty of cats, and we are going to need workers to get those cats over the hills and through the jungle.

As for the tiles around NY, it may have seemed like you were saving turns, but you waste 2 worker-turns by not roading. There's the turn you move away after mining as well as the turn to move back onto the square to road it again. The granary in NY would still have been building after roading those squares, and there was only one forest tile that we could have chopped for shields anyway.

Military for now, and have DC pop off workers as it can. We have four workers for 5 towns, which is minimal at best. Ideally, if we started to push back China, we can turn DC back into a settler factory and NY into the worker factory we first envisioned, but to take the fight to China we are going to need lots more workers. (Slaves work better, tho! :D )

:help:I'm about to have big problems. This disk is working less and less and I just tried to copy it to another one with a CD Clone thing, and the new disk still tells me to insert the disk.:hammer:

This crack is getting bigger and bigger. :vomit:

:help:I'm about to have big problems. This disk is working less and less and I just tried to copy it to another one with a CD Clone thing, and the new disk still tells me to insert the disk.:hammer:

This crack is getting bigger and bigger. :vomit:Bah, I went and bought it again.

Whose turn is it?

Sesn is up; but if he doesn't grab it soon, then you're on deck joe

Sesn is up; but if he doesn't grab it soon, then you're on deck joeAt some point tomorrow, I'll check here one more time, and if he hasn't posted, I'm going to play. I think I could use a little advice, or i'll check what you've written already. If he hasn't posted tomorrow, I will post that I'm playing, and that's it.

He logged on two days ago after the last person went, maybe didnt know it was his turn, but we haven't had a post by him in a week or so.

I kind of like Joe - THE BLAH! :scan:

Some advice, ok, this is what I'd do:

Build catapults in Seattle. In the the other towns, I'd say build 4 spearmen first, and after that archers only. Position some spearmen in the mountains to seal off our borders. Four spears can seal us in; one 1SE from Atlanta, the other three like in the image. After building 4 spears switch to archers.

I am against building another worker at the moment. I would leave 1 worker improve the land near the newest towns in the south and send the other three north to build a road over the mountains. (Don't send north if it's on a nonroaded square without building a road first :) )

Use POPRUSH perhaps... if it's convenient - but only once in each town - it causes unhappiness.
Maybe pin or Tim can tell some more about poprushing and unhappiness for I do not know exactly how it works.

Joe, I'd go ahead and take it. Sesn mentioned he has been busy before; when we hear from him next we'll fit him in again.

I think we have enough spears, maybe 1 or 2 more.... maybe.

We do need roads, and while I think we do need many, many more workers, our priority for military right now is going to mean we really can't build any.

Cats out of seattle, archers out of everywhere else. Maybe not even cats out of Seattle, with all the jungle and mountains we have up north. Remember, they can't cross those tiles without a road.

I'd consider squeezing another settler out of DC after the barracks finishes. It can go east of DC, 3 tiles away so it won't be too cramped. We may need the extra production.

When DC is at size 6 it should be working 10 shields per turn to maximize our production. 2-turn archers are gonna be nice.

I would wait to attack Phillie until we have something along the lines of 6 archers and that's probably playing it safe. Cats are gonna be tricky because of the mountains and jungle; we are going to need workers to road up to them, so while they are nice I'm not even sure they'll be doable.

And give em hell! :devil:

Sorry guys, seems like I just had this so I hadn't checked in a couple days. Like Pind said, the weekends are an especially bad time for me.

I can grab it and possibly get turns up tonight if Joe hasn't already taken it.

Sorry guys, seems like I just had this so I hadn't checked in a couple days. Like Pind said, the weekends are an especially bad time for me.

I can grab it and possibly get turns up tonight if Joe hasn't already taken it.I haven't done it yet, go for it.

If you set lux to 30% and set Washington to grow in one turn, it will be content and still produce the barracks in one turn. Anything else I might have said has been said.

Open up the save, realize that we are gonna need a lot more workers very soon. Do a little MMing, not much else.

Wash is something of a mess. It’s at a perfect 10spt, but can’t keep it happy w/o raising the luxes, which I don’t want to do. If I can get the forest roaded, I think it will be OK.

I also don’t see how to connect the gems without a colony, which is a worker we can’t really spare right now, not to mention the turns needed to road to it.

975 BC (1) – Wash rax -> worker. NY archer -> worker. Send a warr from NY to MP in Boston.

950 BC (2) – Wash worker -> archer. Boston archer -> archer. Wash can be kept on a perfect archer-archer-worker cycle, for the time being.

925 BC (3) – Warr arrives in Boston to discover his presence is useless. *shrug*

900 BC (4) – Wash archer -> archer. NY worker -> settler.

IT – Chinese archer comes into view near Philly.

875 BC (5) – The roaded forest does let me keep Wash happy. Send a worker and warrior to see whats what with the gems.

IT – Interesting, now it’s three archers near Philly.

850 BC (6) – Wash archer -> worker. Shuffle a spear for an archer in NY to better deal with the archers.

IT – Of course the archers start to go around me.

825 BC (7) – Wash worker -> archer. Boston archer -> archer. Atlanta archer -> archer. Pull back the units to fight them on better ground since they won’t attack me.

IT – Alex demands Tm and 14g. Grudgingly, he gets it.

800 BC (8) – Pull everyone back to NY to make my stand. Warr near gems sees a barb horse.

IT – Warr wins flawless vs barb horse, second horse appears. China moves down onto te flatlands.

775 BC (9) – Wash archer -> archer. Seattle worker -> undecided. I set it to a warr for MP, but feel free to change it as desired. Vet archer vs vet archer, we lose 1 hp. Ditto on the second one. Vet vs reg, we lose 1 hp and promote. See another reg in the hills. Fortify the warr in the mountains.

IT – lose newly forted warr. See a couple more archers coming our way.

750 BC (10) – Math comes in, set to Lit. Feel free to change that, no beakers invested yet. Can only get WM and 42g from Alex for Math. Change Atlanta to a spear with the incoming barbs.

I recommend using up a worker to colonize some of those gems, we really need it for happiness. We have about 8 archers waiting to be used in NY, make sure you use the elite wisely. There are at least two barb horse headed towards Atlanta, may want to consider whipping the spear there. I might recommend changing the tech to Rep, though it will take forever to get there.

>>>SAVE<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_BC0750_01.SAV)

Announcement: I'll be on holiday and unable to play from september 1-10.

About the game: good to see we're developing an army, but:

Why are we building workers? Let's not do that and build archers and spears.
Why are we building a settler in NY where we have no granary? If we want another settler let's at least build it in Washington.
I also disagree with going to Republic. Let's skip it. After the Chinese sneak attack, I do not believe anymore that our wars will be short, I expect to be at war for a loooong time.

PLEASE: fortify a spear 1SE from Atlanta in the mountain. Do it asap. Whip the spear in Atlanta and move it 1SE. It will eliminate all our problems in the SE for a long time.
A colony on the gems would be nice but we just can't have it right now. Let's not waste time thinking about it. We don't have time for hunting barbs in the mountains, building roads there and defending a colony.
We need to move towards China and fast. There's lux over there as well by the way.

Good turns, Sesn. Desperately needed workers added to the mix, and we're going to need that settler to help us push northward. I think 8 archers may be what we need for taking out China. What I have envisioned is an early despotic war with the Chinese while we research Republic. Go as far north as we can and stop either when we run out of troops or when republic comes in. At that point revolt and build up (hopefully with those Chinese horses, but that may be a bit too far) and take out the rest of the AIs.

The question is, and I really would like to hear from you on this Sesn cause you just played and have first-hand sense of the Chinese presence, are 8 archers enough to get the ball rolling? In emperor skill, I think they'd be good, but China seemed pretty resiliant -- OCCed against Greece early on they came back to beat back hoplites :eek: so maybe AlanH gave them something special. So maybe build up archers, workers, and an odd spear and settler during the next turnset to make sure we crush them.

Mr. Y, I like the idea of a spear SE of Atlanta. It'd be good to have a couple more: one to escort a worker to road and colonize those gems and two to guard the road from barb pillagers. The more luxuries we get, the less we need to spend on lux tax and the more we can spend on research.

Let's try to get these next turnsets in the next few days so mr. Y can get his before he goes on holiday.

mr. Y -- on holiday soon, lucky duck!
pindicator
SesnOfWthr
joethreeblah -- up!
TimBentley -- on deck

I'm ready us soon as Sesn. and maybe mr. Y comment on your last post, so I can decide what to do. Otherwise I'll play tonight either way.

OCCed against Greece early on they came back to beat back hoplites :eek: so maybe AlanH gave them something special.

Please don't look at me! The game design and balance is all down to Gyathaar. I'm just keeping the books straight.

First I have a question for you pros: How long before either of our two neighbors discover galleys and spread to other continents?

If you look at the territory chart for the rest of the SGOTM players, we are dead last as far as territory goes. (We are also pretty behind for # of turns played). Also, if you look at how much territory most people have, I'm assuming they charged ahead and perhaps conquered the entire continent.

Obviously we aren't going to win by doing the same thing, after our initial setbacks. We could have an advantage of trying something completely different.

What if, instead of using this time to fight (they are relatively weak, most cities only have 1 pop) and push up north, we use this time to build military, build the other buildings and temples and workers and such, colonize the resources in the south east, and bide our time.

If we wait until our friends have colonized another continent a bit, perhaps at that time we can make a charge at them, and demand cities on other continents in order to end wars.

If the other teams have killed the other two civs right away, they have a long time to wait until they can get helecopters and spread off the beginning continent.

Also, from the descriptions about nukes being on boats and everything, it seems like this game is going to go well into the modern era, and the other teams' typical strategy of turbo elimination might not be the best - IE, pacing ourselves and leaving the other civs on our continent for awhile might be best.

I'm not good with the MM, so maybe along with this strategy, it might be best to take back phili or one or two other cities, but the fact remains that we are dead last, but also have a hint as to what other people have done, and this might be the time to try something new and original.

I kind of like Joe - THE BLAH! :thanx:

@Joe

There are definitely advantages to keeping around enemy civs, provided they make good trading partners. I haven't really thought one way or the other about eliminating our neighbors. By what I have seen in other SCs and other games is that it is better to get a large area producting for you quickly that you can build up and develop than it is to rely on the AI to research the tech you want them to. Remember, they may research unneeded techs or even double up on the tech you are researching.

But I think we will find other civs as they get to map making (I'm guessing in the next 20 turns or so we will see our first enemy galley; remember, we didn't get philo first and neither did China or Greece, so somebody out there knows more than us). And once we get those other contacts, China and Greece will not be necessary for us to keep around. Better to convert their lands to ours.

Don't look too much into what other teams do. I doubt any body else got sneak-attacked by China like we did; that was just very bad luck (unless Gyathaar had somethign to do with it! :devil: --That better, AlanH? :p ). I think we need to play the best we can with the game we are given.

As for the war, what we are trying to do is get us a good amount of cities. The more cities we get early on, the bigger the core we can develop and the better our research will be later in the game. If you don't feel comfortable with the amount of troops we have, these are your 10 turns Joe, and build up more troops. If you feel confident you can take Philly and continue pumping troops to push northward, go ahead and start it out.

@Mr Y - The workers, as noted, are very much needed. When we get to the point of hacking through that jungle (hopefully soon), then we will be glad to have them. The settler is being built in NY because of the high food output there. That city will grow beyond our means to keep it happy in very short order otherwise. I also noted that Wash is on a perfect arch-arch-worker 5 turn cycle how it is, and I would leave it that way for the time being. Of course, spears could be subbed in for archers as needed. There is a lux iun China, but roading and protecting the gems will consume far less resources than taking and connecting the lux there, and much quicker.

@Pind - The Chinese do not scare me. The second "wave" of archers are all regulars. The real p[roblem is the mountains themselves. As such, I'd like to have a couple more archers before we push. Leave a couple home in NY for defense, then push a stack through to Philly and onward. Once we get through the mountains, we should be able to beat them down quicker, and not need to keep units hoime as much.

@Joe - The problem with your atrat is that a huge part of the score is reflected in number of happy and content citizens. While Grece and China could certainly help us with tech, I think we are better off eliminating them, juicing up the cities ASAP, and worrying about the tech pace later. Also, colonies on other continents are near useless if we can't get troops to them. There will be no dom or conquest win until Helis, no matter which way you cut it. For now, Move on China, and try to be frugal with our units until we can be sure they are on the ropes. Keep every city you get, burn nothing, and keep your eyes peeled for slaves.

Ok, if that's the concensus, then that's what we'll do. I just think the helecopters dont come along for a long long long time, enough to build our own military units on other continents.

@Joe - The problem with your atrat is that a huge part of the score is reflected in number of happy and content citizens.

Just a reminder that score is irrelevant in this competition. The ranking is based purely on how quickly you conquer the world. An early victory date is everything.

Ok I have 1 turns left, but I need help.

(0) 750BC
Boston > Spearman

IBT
China moves its 3 archers S, 1 N of New York :D
Washington Archer > Worker

(1) 730BC
Killed 3 archers w/ 1 Elite (-2), 2 Vets (-1x2)
Whipped Atlanta to produce spearman :whipped:

IBT
Washington Worker > Archer
Boston Spearman > Archer
Atlanta Spearman > Warrior

(2) 710BC
Sent Atlanta Spearman SE to gaurd mountaintop

IBT
2 Barb Horses attacks spearman in SE, promoted to Elite
New York Settler > Archer

(3) 690BC
Worker in SE finishes road, I move him and spearman 1 SE :mischief:

IBT
Washington Archer > Archer
Seattle Warrior > warrior

(4) 670BC Sent everyone North - 9 Archers, 2 spearmen :rockon:

IBT
Spearman in SE kills another barb
Japan completes pyramids

(5) 650BC
Sent everyone North, 1 Chinese archer kicking back NE

IBT
Evil Chines Archer passes to the south
Atlanta Warrior > Spearm
Washington starts rioting again :wallbash:

I thought I was doing the archer archer worker pattern, but I tend to screw those things up.

(6) 630BC
Archer in NY goes north 2 and kills evil chinese Archer
Another barbarian shows up in the SE

War Time! :ar15:

Attack Phili
Elite Archer kills eliete spear, loses 4 hp
Vet Archer kills reg spear, loses 3 hp
Vet archer dies against reg archer, enemy -2
Vet archer kills 1/3 reg archer

Philidelphia burns down :cry:
2 slaves
Change entertainment slider to 20%

IBT
Spearman in SE kills another barbarian

(7) 610BC Moved rest of units N into old phili spot
Settler builds San Francisco
Spot 2 greek reg archers chillin N SE
Kill another reg chinese archer stragglin around

IBT
2 greek archers move south, 2 NE from San Francisco
New York Archer > Spearman
Boston Archer > Archer

(8) 590BC
moved worker in SE 1 E to gems

IBT
2 Greek archers move S, taking a shortcut 1 E of San Francisco :mischief:
Washington Settler < Cat
Seattle Warrior > Cat

Rome completes lighthouse

(9) 570BC
Colonize the gems
Rest Soldiers

IBT
Greeks Declare War!:eek:
Greeks capture a couple of workers with 1 reg archer NE
Attack San Fran with other reg archer, killing 1 spearman(they are at 1/3)
Chinese move 1 Vet Archer and 1 Reg Hoplight out of darkness to 2 NE
Also 1 Chinese reg archer E SE, and 1 Chinese warrior N NE

Boston > Spearman

(10) 550BC
Haven't played turn yet, see below
we have 10 archers and a spearman, I don't know who or what to attack :crazyeye:

Actually, I'm going to let you go for it Tim, instead of waiting to do one more turn.

Here's the new link.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_BC0550_01.SAV

mr. Y -- On deck, and on holiday soon, lucky duck!
pindicator
SesnOfWthr
joethreeblah
TimBentley -- up!

So I got a colony going on the south east pretty easily. The 1 spearman is killing any barbs that try for us, and they have so far been too stupid to go around. I was almost tempted to attack the barb with my speerman but left it alone.

The greeks sneak attacked a stack of 12 with 2 archers, so I think we can pretty much kill anything on site from here on out.

I really need pointers in the future on keeping people happy I think. I try to follow the patters that people talk about, like archer archer worker, but i seem to **** it up every time.

I didn't choose to raiz the city, it just happened. There's another settler on the way up, and I think everything else is going ok.

It's not a huge force around us, only like 1 defender, I just didn't know what order to do it. Probably attack east so we're on the mountain.

Remember to check every cities' happiness after moving units (assuming you're in a government with military police) and change the lux slider if needed (I remember one time I counted the gold of barely content cities to deal with the reduced gold at the end of the golden age, and they rioted because units moved out :crazyeye: ).

Got it. I should play tomorrow.

Remember to check every cities' happiness after moving units (assuming you're in a government with military police) and change the lux slider if needed (I remember one time I counted the gold of barely content cities to deal with the reduced gold at the end of the golden age, and they rioted because units moved out :crazyeye: ).

Got it. I should play tomorrow.I believe you can only affect them with 2 units right? I'm sure I didn't lower them past that, it was just the pop increase.

Good job joe! way to start reclaiming our lost lands.

Greece complicates things. More specifically, Greek hoplites complicate things. We really need cats to take them out.

Anyone else notice the purple border in the screenshot? The war takes priority, of course, but it would be nice to have a unit try to make contact.

Wow, I don't check the forum for 1 day and look now...
Well, it's looking better now. We have a decent attackforce and are kicking Chinese butt.
It also seems I overestimated the barbs and underestimated our workers in the SE.

Sesn: The workers will pay off when we need to use catapults, of course. I guess I was in slight panicmode because of the sneak-attack and wanted to focus solely on military. Things seem to be under control now. I'll remember to thank you for the workers later :)

Obviously we need some more spearmen now, and the question arises what we do with the next Chinese town (provided we get a choice). I have a slight preference for razing and re-settlement on the originally planned spots.

I must say I liked the idea behind Blah's strat a lot. I too would like to try to get to other islands before we have heli's. Remember I proposed to try for that using culture. I am not that concerned about not being able to transfer troops; If we are in another government we can buy troops in isolated cities.
Anyway we can postpone that decision until the point when the Chinese are reduced to 1 city on our island.

For now I would keep position in San Fransisco until some fresh spearmen arrive. We might still consider to seal off the mountain pass, I really would't like to see Greek hoplite/archerstacks south of the mountains, forcing us to increase defense empirewide...

good luck Tim

Since it's too late to finish playing tonight, I'll ask for advice on next tech. I would go for currency at maximum research, or republic at minimum research.

I'll also give an update: at 5 turns, the only visible units are a greek hoplite covering a healing archer, and I'm preparing for an attack.

P.S. China already has a city on another island (although it currently looks like a small one).

Since it's too late to finish playing tonight, I'll ask for advice on next tech. I would go for currency at maximum research, or republic at minimum research.

I'll also give an update: at 5 turns, the only visible units are a greek hoplite covering a healing archer, and I'm preparing for an attack.

P.S. China already has a city on another island (although it currently looks like a small one).Give em hell!

I'd say currency.

I like that update Tim!!!!

I would go for Republic at max. It is by far the best gov't to be in for our aim of fast research. And the sooner we get it the sooner we get out of ugly despotism.

550(0): China is in anarchy
We have a strong military compared to China and Greece
I had forgotten that map trading was pushed back to MM
switch Washington to archer, switch forest to FP (more gold than plains)
switch New York to worker, switch plain to FP
switch Boston to settler, put entertainer on coast
San Francisco hopefully won't need walls in 17 turns, switch it to catapult
science to 90%
elite archer kills archer on mountain
send archer to mountain to look for purple
start to send warrior from Seattle to Atlanta to free up warrior to take out barb camp

IBT: Greek archer is redlined killing elite archer
I didn't notice that warrior up north
New York worker->warrior
Atlanta spear->archer

530(1): science to 70%

IBT: Washington archer->cat

510(2): China is a monarchy
science to 50%

IBT: spear in San Francisco barely survives two archer attacks by Greece

490(3): take out barb camp
science to 90%

IBT: Washington cat->cat
New York warrior->archer

470(4): science to 80% (no beakers wasted, with zero gold next turn :))

IBT: learn literature

450(5): lose one archer taking out 3 Chinese archers, one warrior
get an extra gold in Boston
science to 40%
recall archer looking for purple
find that max research would currently get republic in 47 turns, libraries should reduce that
so start maximum research on republic

IBT: purple warrior comes in sight
Washington cat->worker
Boston settler->library
Atlanta archer->archer
Seattle cat->cat

430(6): Vikings (come to think of it, that civ choice seems appropriate) have 12 cities, 119g, HBR, know nobody else, lack math, CoL, literature, are building MoM in Trondheim
sell math to them for HBR, 119g, WM
they own an island to the west and just settled the island off our coast
science to 90%
northern warrior is redlined killing archer

IBT: Washington worker->library

410(7): zzz

IBT: northern warrior killed by archer
Vikings start Colossus

390(8): hire scientist in New York

IBT: New York archer->cat

370(9): Vikings know polytheism, but want code of laws and most of our gold for it
they just met China

IBT: Vikings start ToA

350(10): lose an archer taking out 3 Chinese archers

Notes: attacking should be possible about now
you could sell code of laws and contact with the greeks to Vikings for polytheism, WM, 8g

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_BC0350_01.SAV).

Nice turns, Tim! Good call on the Maps; I forgot that detail as well.

I say we push on, capture everything we can get online fast. The chinese have no culture in those jungle towns, so the flip risk should be very low. Build libraries between troop orders to get our research cranking out. Things are definitely looking better!

Someone ( ;) ) found the conditions for getting a city from a hut here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3032852&postcount=39), and the result is founding a city to pop the goody huts won't get one. It could get a worthless (since there is no longer exploration there to be done) worker, a tech, a worthless (since the island is so small) warrior, gold, or worthless maps, however.

Someone ( ;) ) found the conditions for getting a city from a hut here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3032852&postcount=39), and the result is founding a city to pop the goody huts won't get one. It could get a worthless (since there is no longer exploration there to be done) worker, a tech, a worthless (since the island is so small) warrior, gold, or worthless maps, however.Ok so it's copters, or war gifts.

War gifts / cultural conversions on other islands are not very good ways to expand and conquer those islands. Unless we have a massive troop rushing endeavor from that town (and it will still take many turns to raise a force strong enough to conquer anything else on the island) helos are still the best shot.

I think mr. Y should be able to play before leaving, but if not, pindicator would be next.

Yeah, I can. I'll probably be able to finish my turns within 24 hours.
Any specific pointers?

greetz,

mr. Y

Just one: kill all who oppose us! :devil:

And a couple who don't!

Can we fit another city in the far southeast?

Allright, in short:

I received a nice set-up this time :)
We conquered 1 Chinese town, burnt another, captured 2 Chinese slaves, founded two new settlements and have two lux now and one more elite archer. All at the cost of - I think - 4 archers.
Next turn we get The Republic. Don't forget to readjust the science slider.
We might trade Rep with the Vikings for Construction or contact.
Don't forget there's a massive barb uprising near Atlanta, beware...


in long:

preturn:
traded with Vikings: They give worldmap+8gc+poly we give CoL+contact with Greece
The WM give us limited new info (China has settled on 2 islands)
change NY from pult to library

IBT
Atlanta archer->library

1 -330
kill hoplite, start road in jungle

2 -310
change science to 60% - we're nearly out of money :(

3 -290
move units in attack position

IBT
reports of a massive barbarian uprising near Atlanta :S

4 -270
attack Xinjian without pults - lose 3 archers over it, but gain 2 workers
set it to produce a worker
move the remaining archers (3) to Macao
change science to 50%

IBT
Chinese bring in quite some archers
Washington library->spear
Frisco pult->pult

5 -250
attack Macao () and burn it
time for regrouping and healing, fortify

IBT we lose another archer to the Chinese
Atlanta spear->spear

6 -230
kill some more Chinese
send spear to defed colony

IBT
Chinese are sending horses in now
Washington spear->spear
Seattle pult->pult

7 -210
regrouping
found Miami->pult

IBT
Greek show themselves again; 2 archers this time
Chinese archer + horse still around, both at 2/3
Our people want to build the forbidden palace
the Chinese are building the Hanging Gardens

8 -190
found Houston->library
science to 80%

IBT
erm... lots of Greek arriving 4 archers+1 horseman now
Washington spear->archer
Japan (Kyoto) finishes Hanging Gardens
some other Wonder messages

9 -170
kill Chinese archer yields another elite-archer for us.
We are prepared for the Graak attack on Xinjan

IBT
Romans start on Wonderstuff
Greek circumvent Xinjian and try for our workers
We now have another lux connected!

10 -150
move all units to Xinjian
move science slider to 20%, next turn we get The Republic
DON'T FORGET TO READJUST IT


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_BC0150_01.SAV

If people are looking for me, tell them I am yodeling in the Swiss Alps.
Good luck in the meantime!

mr. Y

Looks like I get to have the anarchy turns :p

Nice work, mr. Y. We still have 7 archers and more in production so I vote to keep pushing forward. Those barbs are going to hurt... Let's hope our colony survives. Atlanta's spear being made can be put on the mountains; that should survive, we hope.

If I get the opportunity, I will most likely go for peace with Greece so we can just concentrate on taking out the Chinese. I'm still aiming to capture their horses.

Edit: Got it!

Looks like I get to have the anarchy turns :p

Nice work, mr. Y. We still have 7 archers and more in production so I vote to keep pushing forward. Those barbs are going to hurt... Let's hope our colony survives. Atlanta's spear being made can be put on the mountains; that should survive, we hope.

If I get the opportunity, I will most likely go for peace with Greece so we can just concentrate on taking out the Chinese. I'm still aiming to capture their horses.Kill the Greeks! :ar15:

Looks good. It looks like selling republic (by the way, one scientist can be switched to taxman) should get us into the middle ages. I think a peace with Greece would be fine.

China is buckling at the knees and barbarians are over-running the south.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Tim_SG008_AD0050_Warpath.jpg

Time to put the hurt on the Chinese!

Slider already at 20%, but I do change one of the scientist as Tim noted.

Greece will talk. Peace with Greece nets us Republic, 2gpt, and 10g
Trade Republic to England for Currency. Crap, I forgot about maps!
Republic to Scandinavia for Construction, Territory Map, and 3g.
Trade England our WM for their TM. They are large! A dozen cities on a large island north of Scandinavia. Wow, the sooner we take over our island the better!
Japan won't even trade us for their TM. They must be even larger! Same with Rome.
Trade Greece their TM + 7g for our WM.

I'm setting research to Feudalism. We are going to want to get to Longbows for warfare I think, and Feudalism gets us the best trade value of any 1st tier MA tech, thanks to the government attached to it now.
Science is at 70%, Feudalism is in 25.

I think some of those library builds might be premature, but they are too far along to change.

1) 130BC

Ah, forgot to revolt. Do that now.

Draw 6 turn anarchy :( There goes my turnset. :lol:

Kill 3 horsemen and an archer.

Currently the Chinese would give us Hangchow for a peace deal. They almost will throw in Monarchy, and frown at throwing in Chengdu.
In fact, they won't give up even just Chengdu. Looks like we can expect a future resource in that area.

Not that I'm in the mood for peace; I just wanted to know what I could get. :evil:

2) 110BC
Heal up troops for the assault on Hangchow

IBT-
:eek: our barb friends show up in the south.

3) 90BC
Greece is on the road, so our cats can't advance...

IBT-
Our warrior in the south kills 2 barbs and promotes.

4) 70BC
That northern road goes straight to Shanghai.. Hangchow and Chengdu are unconnected and unproductive; at worst we'll see the occasional archer from them, so I am going for Shanghai and to claim the horses.
Japan now knows Feudalism.

IBT-
Kill 3 more barbs in the south
2 Chinese horsemen show in the north

5) 50BC
Bomb and kill both Chinese horses.
Rome and Greece now know Feudalism.

IBT-
Kill 4 more barbs in the south

6) 30BC
Attack force of 6 archers, 2 spears, and 6 cats is knocking on Shanghai's doorstep.

IBT-
Kill a horse, but lose two warriors in the south. Only one warrior between Atlanta and about a dozen barbs! :eek:

Republic comes in and we are running a deficit of -47gpt... I'll have to fix that.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Tim_SG008_BC0030_BarbsGovt.jpg

7) 10BC
Science to 20%

Take Shanghai without a scratch and we now have horses!

Washington will hit 15spt at next growth. What's better than horses? 2-turn horses!

I am not at all set on the safety of Shanghai. It is a major flip risk and we do not want to lose those horses. So our troops will march on Nanking and then the capital. I do not want to see the Chinese have any chance at their UU.

IBT-
Our warrior kills two barbs then perishes to the third. 4 Horsemen are standing outside of Atlanta.

Resistance in Shanghai is over.

8) 10AD
A spear and a reg warrior fortify in Atlanta.
Once again, the Greeks are in the way of where I want to go... It'd be better if they'd take an aliance.

Science to 30%

We are seeing no units at all from China. I'd be rolling them over quicker if Greece wouldn't tie up the roads.

Kill a Chinese archer.

IBT-
Barbs pillage our road; unhappiness breaks out.
Spear kills two and then just capitulates on the 3rd.

9) 30AD
Luxuries to 30%; science back to 20%

We just have a single warrior at 2/3 defending Atlanta against 6 barbs... not gonna be pretty.

IBT-
Warrior goes down to first horse
Pillaging toll is as follows: 4 population killed and 8g taken. OUCH!
2 more barb horses left

2 Chinese archers show up IBT

10) 50AD
Lose one vet archer, kill 2 spears, and Nanking is ours. There goes the last of the Chinese horses.
Should discuss whether we keep or abandon this town. I'm not worried about Chinese culture for a flip, as I think we will be able to raze Beijing in 2 or 3 turns. But the Greeks are closeby and will be a significant problem.
Kill another Chinese archer.


Notes for the next player:

Any troop up north that has not been moved is fortified.

2 Barbs are left in the south; I say we get a couple units to kill them once war with China has died down, and keep the units fortified in the hills so we don't have to worry about them showing up again.

I would heal up and then march on Beijing. Raze and resettle Beijing, then turn around and capture Chengdu and Hangchow. Then hopefully we can sue China for peace, taking their offshore cities of Chinan, Tientsin, and Tatung as war prizes. 20 turns later, when our peace deal is done, turn around and capture Tsingtao to get rid of China once and for all.

Pop off a couple settlers at some point (I would do it out of NY after its Library finishes -- btw, big mistake of mine not doing any pop rushing before flipping to Republic). Settle a new town N-N-NW of Xinjian, on the road between it and Shanghai. Another settler can go to replace Beijing.

Washington DC should be set up to 15spt next turn (pointless this turn, so I have it on max food right now). 2-turn horses will be very nice for mopping up Chinese and Barbs.

Our troops count in the homeland is very low right now due to Republic and our need of troops up nroth. Once our economy gets up and running, make sure every coastal town is defended; I don't want to get ROP-raped by zerks. Of course, they might do that anyway.

Marketplaces are a MUST!





The save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD0050_01.SAV)

Looks good. China has (and will continue to be) paid for its treachery.

By keeping Nanking, we deny Greece horses. Purchasing wool from Rome for 8gpt would save 10gpt by lowering the lux slider.

SesnOfWthr - up
joethreeblah - on deck
TimBentley
mr. Y - out until 9/10
pindicator - just played

I was looking at that during my turns, Tim. But since I have no idea where Rome is I am very wary of doing a trade across seas with them. I have had my rep burned from AI wars when I've had no idea what had happened to break our deal. Considering how much more important diplomacy will be in this game, I am wary to do any trading overseas until I know the route.

You're probably correct; that would be overly risky. Barbarians are often a disruption in coastal trade.

You're probably correct; that would be overly risky. Barbarians are often a disruption in coastal trade.How does that happen?

A) Yikes! I'm up here too, huh? Turns will take a couple days to get up, I'll try to find time during the weekend, sorry for the delay.

B) @Joe - Let's say we have a trade route that at some point passes through a single coastal square. Since we don't know the advanced sea techs yet, we can't trade over sea/ocean. Now let's further say that a barb galley is moving around and ends its turn in that single square. Our trade route is broken becuase this is effectively a blockade. The same thing can happen with a galley from a civ we are at war with, or a route that goes through waters controlled by such a civ. Does that explain it enough? You could compare it to a trade route from England to Italy, with a hostile civ controlling the strait of Gibraltar. Nothing can get in or out.

A) Yikes! I'm up here too, huh? Turns will take a couple days to get up, I'll try to find time during the weekend, sorry for the delay.

B) @Joe - Let's say we have a trade route that at some point passes through a single coastal square. Since we don't know the advanced sea techs yet, we can't trade over sea/ocean. Now let's further say that a barb galley is moving around and ends its turn in that single square. Our trade route is broken becuase this is effectively a blockade. The same thing can happen with a galley from a civ we are at war with, or a route that goes through waters controlled by such a civ. Does that explain it enough? You could compare it to a trade route from England to Italy, with a hostile civ controlling the strait of Gibraltar. Nothing can get in or out.Do we have harbors?

As far as I understand it, that only applies to certain trades, like GPT and such, where you have two harbors connected.

EDIT: I see you were talking about GPT. I guess you all understand that stuff and have read the articles on breaking deals and reputations and such.
I think this is where I originally got my info: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=113376

I think I need to look at the save. I don't know where these folks even are.

Thinking about it some more.... I still don't think that this would be a deal that could be cut off, since it doesnt require roads or anything to be connected as it would with resources

the problem joe is that we cannot see Rome, have no idea where rome is, and therefore cannot know if the trade route is a risky one or not. Remember, it just takes one barb to ruin the trade and our rep for the game.

the problem joe is that we cannot see Rome, have no idea where rome is, and therefore cannot know if the trade route is a risky one or not. Remember, it just takes one barb to ruin the trade and our rep for the game.Yes but unless someone can explain different, I don't believe a tech or moey trade requires ANY trade route.

We're talking about buying wool. And now that you mentioned harbors, I realized the trade would go through Greece's harbors too. Even riskier.

@joe -- goods require a trade route. Money doesn't

@Tim -- if they go through Greece, then definitely do not do that. Greece is gonna be due for a whipping sooner than 20 turns, I think.

We're talking about buying wool. And now that you mentioned harbors, I realized the trade would go through Greece's harbors too. Even riskier.Is wool a replacement for another luxury or is it in addition? If it's in addition, how many extra & total resources are there?

joe, Sesn appears to be busy. The other SG I have with him he also has been a no-show for a few days. If you want you can go ahead and pick it up.

Well, I did warn you it would be a couple days before I had a chance for this. Unless Joe has it and has started playing, I can probably get some turns done in the morning. Work and a wedding have taken up all my time this week, sorry all. :(

IHT – Things look basically ok, but we are down on tech to almost everyone, and there are a couple of barbs near Atlanta with only a reg warrior defending. Some libraries will complete this set, so that is good at least. We should talk about getting a couple Wonders to trigger our GA. I don’t really want to wait for jets to get it.

IT – Atlanta ransacked, we lose 3g.

70 AD (1) – Reset Wash for the 15spt. Horse from there goes and kills one of the barbs. Pick off a Chinese archer.

90 AD (2) – Kill another barb, should be ready to move on China again next turn.

IT – Barb attacks our horse, promoting it to elite.

110 AD (3) – Move on Beijing.

IT – Ragnar completes MoM, starts building GW. Japs building Sun Tzu’s and Sistine.

130 AD (4) – Kill two archers outside Shanghai. Our cats go 2 for 6 at Beijing. We lose two vet archers in the assault, but Beijing falls. I keep the city for the moment, at least until I can get a settler up there. E horse disperses the Teohiucan camp.

150 AD (5) – WW hits our bigger cities. Bump the lux until I can get the gems reconnected.

170 AD (6) – Not much, move a few units. China won’t give us the offshore cities yet, although they will give us Mono.

190 AD (7) – Start moving towards Chengdu next turn.

IT – Japanese complete ToA.

210 AD (8) – Start moving into Tsingtao.

230 AD (9) – Too many wonder builds to mention.

IT – Japan completes TGL.

250 AD (10) – China drops a horse next to Washington. I can’t kill it. Also causes Washington to riot. We take Tsingtao, at a loss of one archer. Get peace with China for Mono, Eng, 1g, and Wm. They wouldn’t include any cities.

Recap – There are a couple units unmoved, I didn’t know what the next plan was going to be. We may be able to get China to redeclare in a couple of turns with that horse running around in our lands. I also didn’t check for new trades with the extorted techs, I really have to get going. The south should remain pretty secure from barbs if you leave the warrior where he is. We may want to make a run at Greece sooner rather than later. The longer we wait, the stronger they become. Oh, and also check the sliders, we may be able to drop luxes now that the WW is gone. Sorry for the half completed turn, Joe. :rolleyes:

>>>SAVE<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD0250_01.SAV)

This is what the Chinese Wm got us. There are indeed trade routes to Rome.....

Excellent run, Sesn. The Chinese shouldn't pose any real threat to us for the rest of the game.

If the road to Tsingtao is safe, the trade route to Rome would be safe (note that Rome has the Great Lighthouse).

It would be nice to have longbowmen before attacking Greece. I'm pretty sure the AI will research invention before we could.

Copernicus and Hoover's would give us a GA. If Greece builds the Great Wall and we capture it, we would get a GA from building Copernicus.

I think the flip risk of Beijing keeps me from endorsing trade with Rome.

Do we want to starve Beijing / Tsingtao or do we replace them when settlers make their way up?

We can also fit another town in between Xinjin and Shanghai along the main road. I think we should quickly.

Greeks have the iron, so we can expect pikes and MDIs (and possibly Knights if they are importing horses) when we do attack. Since we want LBs for it, I think we should use this peace to build up infra and then horses / trebs / a few spears once we have the buildings we want. I don't think we'll want to make archers to upgrade; it'd be quicker to just make the LBs fresh and in large numbers once we get Invention.

Yikes. It's getting complicated. Where should I build the settlers, and what buildings do we want?

I think the settler we have and the one settler being built should be okay for now. Buildings would include libraries, marketplaces, harbors, aqueducts, and courthouses (not all of those in every city, of course).

We haven't really discussed where to build the forbidden palace. Miami, perhaps?

Remember to starve Beijing and Tsingtao every turn until they get to size one. You may want to abandon Beijing and resettle there; starving Tsingtao should be fine. You also need to get some units to Beijing to quell resistance. Your research choices would be invention so it can be bought at a discount and sold to everybody else, chivalry to sell to England, or theology to get a monopoly on printing press or education.

Miami's a safe choice. A better long-term choice would be Nanking, I believe, or somewhere else central to the northern half of our island. But building it up there would probably need a leader.

:bump: Any progress, joe?

Manana sir.

Let me know if you have any last words..

Just want to post and say I'll be away from the forums for a few days starting tomorrow. Not entirely sure when I'll be able to get back, but it shouldn't be more than a few days.

Manana and manana's manana have passed. Got it.

250(0): do MMing due to more happiness
start FP in Miami
decide to turn off research and watch for good trades

IBT: extend peace with Greece
Washington horse->market
Rome starts Sistine, KT
Greece starts Great Wall, Sistine
England starts Sun Tzu's, Sistine
Reykjavik builds Colossus
Viknigs start Great Wall, Sun Tzu's

260(1): zzz

IBT: Rome starts KT
Greece starts KT

270(2): take out a barb camp

280(3): trade WMs with Vikings
trade WMs with England
sell WM to China for WM, 5g
buy Rome's WM for WM, 2g
sell WM to China for 2g
sell WM to Japan for WM, 4g
sell WM to Rome for 1g
sell WM to Greece for WM, 10g
decide to start max research on invention

IBT: Beijing worker->trebuchet
New York settler->market

290(4): Ask China's horse to leave, they say yes, but will they listen?

IBT: Veii builds Great Wall
Greece starts KT
Vikings start Sun Tzu's

300(5): Japan, Rome, and Greece know invention
Chinese horse agrees to demand to leave
found Buffalo between Shanghai and Xinjian

IBT: Rome, Japan start Leo's

310(6): zzz

IBT: Englands starts KT

320(7): buy invention from Japan for 33g, 22gpt
sell invention to England for theology, WM, 16g
start on printing press

IBT: Washington market->longbowman
Seattle library->market
Nagoya builds SoZ

330(8): zzz

340(9): zzz

IBT: Vikings start KT

350(10): sell theology to Vikings for chivalry, WM, 1g
sell WM to Greece for 4g
sell WM to England for 14g
sell WM to Japan for Wm, 2g
sell WM to Greece for 1g
buy WM from China for WM, 1g
sell WM to Greece, Japan for 3g
buy WM from Rome for WM, 13g
sell WM to Greece, Japan, China for 8g

Notes: demanding China to leave has resulted in its units leaving, so we probably won't get an early war against them
I'd feel secure in buying wool from Rome now, but now I'm not sure it's worth it (wool would cost 11gpt, lowering lux slider saves 10gpt)
Washington can produce some workers as it continues to be mined; a temple and cathedral could be useful too
I believe we can post a spoiler, does anybody volunteer?

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD0350_01.SAV).

Tim and others: I apoligize for missing my turn. I somehow ended up in Tennessee for the weekend and am having connection problems. Good turn Tim. Does this mean we can look at the spoilers as well?

Yes.

Here's some discussion points AlanH suggested in that thread:
Discussion points which might be of interest, if you are prepared to discuss them, include:-
1. Which Civs were strongest and how will you deal with them?
2. How did you balance research vs. growth vs. military production during this phase.
4. What impact did the barbs or disease have on your progress?
3. How did the distribution of horses and iron affect your planning?
5. How do you plan to visit your offshore friends?
6. What was your research approach?
6. Early plans to win the game.

mr. Y - up
pindicator - on deck?
SesnOfWthr
joethreeblah
TimBentley - just played

I think the spoiler would go to the end of Sesn's turns.

I'm back and set up in my new abode!

I'll volunteer for the writeup for the spoiler. Look for it by tomorrow morning.
Also, I'll give mr. Y until then to pick it up, otherwise I'll play.

Or actually, why don't you pick it up right now Joe? That way you and Tim just end up swapping instead of you getting skipped this round.

The spoiler looks good. I think you might as well play now.

Thanks, Tim.

I'll try to get to the game tonight.

Everything looks good, but I change Boston from a Market to an Aqueduct. Rather have the city continue to grow first and then build the marketplace. Change Seattle to an Aqueduct as well.


IBT-
Washington: Longbow -> Worker

1) 360AD
Settler founds St. Louis
Our core cities have very little defense. I'm moving 2 horsemen from the north to DC to cover our core towns. The longbows and other slower units will head north to our eventual war zone.
Greece has wines, which we can get for horses. But they also have iron and I do not want to let them build knights because we will be attacking them eventually.

IBT-
Washington: Worker->Temple
Boston: Aqueduct->Market

Romans build Sun Tzu's in Antium.

2) 370AD

IBT-
Japanese build Knight's Templar in Kyoto.

3) 380AD
Up science to 20%; Printing Press now in 29 (over 46).

5) 400AD
Trade Scandinavia Invention for Monarchy + WM (they were the only one w/o the tech).
Trade England our WM for WM + 1g.
Trade Japan WM for WM.
Trade Rome our WM + 1g for WM.
Trade China our WM for WM + 1g.
Trade Greece our WM for WM + 2g.

IBT-
Washington: Temple->Cathedral

Rome builds Sistine Chapel. They are getting big.

6) 410AD
Education and Gunpowder are now known by 3 other civs.

Washington DC is now at 20 shields per turn.
We can get Gunpowder from Greece for almost everything we have... 210g + 18gpt + horses... not what I want to do.
Disperse a barb camp near Tsingtao.

IBT-
New York: Market->Temple
Shanghai: Trebuchet->Settler
Atlanta: Library->Aqueduct

7) 420AD

IBT-
San Francisco: Harbor->Temple
Houston: Library->Aqueduct

10) 450AD

Trade Scandinavia our WM for WM + 19g
Trade Greece WM for WM
Trade China WM + 9g for WM
Trade Rome WM for WM
Trade Japan WM for WM + 2g


I went for more infrastructure, but I'm regretting that. We need to take over our continent as quickly as possible in order to keep up with the tech pace. Keep researching Printing Press as hard as possible. With luck we'll get a monopoly on it and pick up the other techs we need.

Fighting Greece may be tough, especially if they have Saltpeter. Once DC gets its cathedral finished 2-turn LBs are possible at 20spt. There is a worker mining near DC. When it finishes, we can shuffle some citizens: move the mined BG that DC is working to the newly mined plains so Houston can pick up the BG. This keeps DC at 20spt and allows Houston more room to grow.

We need a lot of things, and I probably should have popped off more workers than I did.

Up north we can fit in a town 3SE of Beijing. Also, I have been converting those towns into research farms, irrigating everything and using excess food to hire scientists. We need all the beakers we can get to keep up with other civs.

The worker mining a mountain in the south feels silly now; it may be better to cancel what he is doing as it won't be of any use until Seattle gets irrigation. Atlanta needs its goats mined now that it has expanded boarders.

Get your American action here! (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD0450_01.SAV)

Buying wool from Rome would be worthwhile, I think. If we ever get into a war with the Vikings, we will have to make sure to have enough units in our coastal cities.

Either mr. Y or Sesn can take it and go to war. We don't have as many longbowmen as I'd like to take on Greece yet, so a war with China first sounds good.

:bump: I see both of the people mentioned in the previous post have been on since I posted, so someone grab it.

is it just down to you and me, Tim? :lol:

Got it, and will look at it tomorrow.
After reading all the posts, my initial thoughts for the long term are:

0) if applicable, preparation for war
1) start the war, hope to get a leader
2) use the leader for FP
3) figure out the fastest way to a GA

I'll get back to you tomorrow.

looks like a good list, mr. Y. Considering that we've yet to get a leader, I would propose that we do indeed use our first leader to rush the FP if it hasn't completed by then -- and I would propose to rush it to the north somewhere around Nanking. After we are done with Greece we will not be able to use armies for much of anything until we get helos.

3) figure out the fastest way to a GA
Copernicus and Hoover's, unless we get lucky with a wonder capture.

preturn
change Miami from FP to library. I think we need to build the FP in Nanking. We need to reach a decision about this.

IBT
Rome wants Territory Map + 30 gold. I give in.

460 AD (1)

IBT
Nanking Trebuchet->Worker

470 AD (2)

IBT
NY Temple->Harbor

480 AD (3)

IBT Washington Cathedral->LB

490 AD (4)

IBT
Seattle Aquaduct->Horseman
York completes Leonardo's Workshop

500
Scandinavians offer Education for WM, horses and 1 gold
I think we should consider this. I also want to speed up war preps.


At this point we have:
5 horses (1 finishing next turn, one more being built)
5 archers
1 LB (1 more every 2 turns)
8 pults
2 trebs
and not enough spears... :s

So, I propose the following:

Wait one turn for the horse to finish and start the next. Then trade the horses to the guys with the horned helmets. We're gonna start the war with 6 horses and 2 more on the way. We also are building LB's but they have a long road to travel (7 turns to reach Shanghai).
I think that might be enough, except for the spears. This means we need to expand our military production. I say we change some aquaducts to barracks in the south, and hurry one barracks in the north so we can upgrade the pults and archers over there. I can use the remaining 5-6 turns to move us in the best position I can so the next player can start taking on the Greeks. Horses will become available again in the turnset of the player after that.

I also really want a team decision about the placement of the FP.
I vote Nanking. I think in the long run it will be the best spot.
And we need to decide whether we start building it or wait and gamble for a leader, using shields for the war effort now.
I vote we gamble. We are behind and need to take some risks.

Let me know what you think.

mr. Y

I agree with your analysis mr. Y; I hope we're talking about war with China because we cannot hope to win against hoplites with those numbers.

As for spears, don't worry about them against China. We will be on the offensive and if it gets to the point where we need spears than things have already gone bad.

Be sure to keep horses in place so that all cities are defended from AI galleys.

DEFINITELY trade with Scandinavia. The happier we make them the better I feel. The last thing I want is to fight off invasions of 'zerks.

For military, build LBs and the odd spear in the south. In the northern, corrupt cities keep them on trebs, workers, and settlers.

Who's up? I think it's between joethreeblah & Sesn to claim it first. Then it's Tim after that.

For the record: I still have some turns to play.
After that I think it's Sesn's turn.

Can I assume you agree with postponing the FP until we get a leader, and then hurrying it in Nanking as opposed to Miami as well, pin?

"Be sure to keep horses in place so that all cities are defended from AI galleys."

I am not at all happy with the lack of defenders in the south. If an AI unloads an archer and a spear we are doomed. Horses are not guaranteed to win against a spearman. But we might have to take the risk...

I'll wait for some more team-input

rock on,

mr. Y

you aren't done! haha, I see that now.

You are right on my assessment of the FP. As for the military, it would be nice to have a spear in every town. I think 4 or 5 horses that can cover the entire southern core cities would protect us from anything except zerks. 1 on 1 they may not kill a spear, but I would be surprised if 2 horses didn't beat a spear and shocked if 3 lost / retreated.

Sure, FP in Nanking with a leader is fine. And the rest of your plan is good too.

I was depressed when I missed my turn, and haven't checked here in a bit. I feel kind of detached from what has happened and a bit nervous about getting back in and screwing things up. But I miss you all! Tell me what to do.

no worries, joe. This may be a competition, but only in the amount of fun each team has :) Believe me, I have screwed up my fair share of SGs and they still let me post, so just have fun, do what you can, and be open to learning new ideas.

Jump on in after Mr. Y finishes up. :thumbsup:

no worries, joe. This may be a competition, but only in the amount of fun each team has :) Believe me, I have screwed up my fair share of SGs and they still let me post, so just have fun, do what you can, and be open to learning new ideas.

Jump on in after Mr. Y finishes up. :thumbsup:Ok!

How do I get to the spoiler?

Is this the last SGOTM before Civ IV?

Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=127160) is the spoiler thread.

Your second question is an interesting one which I don't know the answer to. I will note that there are still GOTMs for Civ2.

Well, it will take a few more turns before we can start attacking again, but we have some more material to work with now. The biggest problem is now the stack of catapults that need upgrading. Maybe we need to stop building these things of their successors (trebs).

500 AD
change Atlanta to Temple (was Aquaduct)

IBT
CHina contacts us, wants to exchange WMs
DC LB->LB
NY horse->horse

510 AD
Buying Education from the Vikings for WM, horses + 1 gc. Their status goes from annoyed to polite

IBT
Boston marketplace->horse
upgrade 2 archers to LB's

520 AD
suddely we're making 30 gc each turn :S
war preparation goes too slow. I hurry a barracks in Buffalo to be able to upgrade nearby catapults.

IBT
DC LB->Lb
Buffalo barracks->horse

530
moving north, shifting workers

IBT
NY horse->horse
Atlanta Temple->horse

540
upgrade 1 archer
moving north

IBT Lizzy (England) demands Territory Map + 19 gc. She gets it.
Tsingtao Trebuchet->Trebuchet
Seattle Horse->LB

550 AD
nothing much to report...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD0550_01.SAV

No further comments at the moment.
greetz,
mr. Y

Sesn hasn't be online since the 18th, so unless he posts, joe can take it.

Buying wool from Rome and lowering the luxury slider still would be good, although Seattle would need a specialist.

I think we could fight a war with China while getting more units to attack Greece.

We should probably start a university prebuild for Copernicus (unless we'd rather build Magellan's instead :crazyeye: ) in Washington after spitting out a few more longbowmen. The AI will most likely research astronomy next.

it all sounds good to me, Tim, as long as that trade route is safe.

joethreeblah - up
TimBentley - on deck
mr. Y - just played
pindicator - had played
SesnOfWthr - skipped, not online in a week

Tim, give Joe a day or two, but pick it up after that. We gotta keep this thing goin. Even if it is just three of us.

It seems Joe the blah hasn't picked it up yet.
I'd say you take it now Tim.

joethreeblah - up
TimBentley - on deck
pindicator - had played
mr. Y - just played
SesnOfWthr - skipped, not online in a week

yeah, until joe or Sesn show up then I say we just go amongst ourselves

Finally got some time to play; got it.

550(0): buy wool from Rome for 13gpt; lux to 20%
get more food in Boston
switch Miami to courthouse
hire scientist in Seattle
switch San Francisco to library
hire scientist in Beijing

IBT: Boston horse->LB

560(1): zzz

IBT: Washington LB->LB
New York horse->LB
Nanking worker->worker

570(2): declare war on China
some Chinese citizens seem to be unhappy about this

580(3): capture Hangchow

IBT: learn printing press
Beijing treb->temple
Washington LB->university
Atlanta horse->LB

590(4): sell printing press to Rome for 48gpt
sell it to Japan for 12gpt, 174g
start max research on banking

IBT: Greece demands printing press, I concede
Miami court->library
England starts Copernicus

600(5): Almost everyone knows astronomy and printing press

IBT: New York LB->LB
Boston LB->LB
Seattle LB->LB

610(6): zzz

IBT: Chinese galley causes Seattle to riot (coast citizen moved)

620(7): capture Chengdu
get Shantung, Kaifeng, Paoting, WM, 2g for peace :)
buy furs from Rome for dyes, 3gpt; lux to 10%

IBT: Japan demands dyes, I give in

630(8): Japan knows music theory
make profit of 27g from WM deals

IBT: Japan starts Bach's

640(9): zzz

IBT: barb warrior appears SE of Beijing
New York LB->LB

650(10): more MT knowledge

Notes: Atlanta is going to expand next turn; spear won't be needed there
As soon as our troops are in position, we should be ready to attack Greece
remember to switch Washington to Copernicus when astronomy is acquired

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD0650_01.SAV).

Edit: I think that's the second time I've attached the save instead of the picture at first
Edit: Yes, there used to be a picture here.

Good turns, Tim. With a dozen LBs, we should be able to put some hurt on Greece. I'm worried about the gunpowder. Hoplites were bad enough; I don't want to have to face muskets now that we have LBs. Oh well :)

I got it. I won't be able to play until Saturday evening (maybe Sunday morning) so if joe or Sesn shows up before then they can definitely take it.

Banking is coming in next turn. It looks like we should be able to use that it get to tech parity.
With a dozen LBs, I think we can do some damage to Greece.

What we do need is a lot more workers. This jungle needs to be cleared as soon as humanly possible.

IBT-

Learn Banking. Set to Econ, but may change after trades are done.

1) 660AD
Disperse a barb camp for 25g. Our archer promotes.
Troops move toward Greece.

Trade Rome Banking + 31g for Music Theory, Astronomy, & Gunpowder.
Trade Scandinavia Astronomy + Music Theory for Chemistry + WM + 1g.
Trade England Banking + 38gpt + 2g for Metallurgy.
Trade Japan Banking + WM + 21gpt for Military Tradition + 7g.

We are now tech leaders. Furthermore, we have saltpeter, so I propose to delay the Greek war in favor of building cavalry. I had half a notion to pause the game and ask for advise, but that would mean one or two people, so I'm going to take initiative and go min research on Econ and upgrade as many horsemen to cavalry as I can.

Upgrade one horse in New York to cavalry for 150g.

2) 670AD
Our tech lead was short lived: Rome now knows Physics.

Upgrade a horse in Seattle to cavalry for 150g.

4) 690AD
Rush barracks in St. Louis for 28g.

5) 700AD
Physics is spread about to Japan and England now.
Upgrade a horse in Washington DC to cavalry.

7) 720AD
Upgrade a horse in St. Louis.

9) 740AD
A little later than expected, but with 4 cavs in the north its time to attack.

Capture Sparta.
Raze Delphi.

And I still have a dozen LBs to move.

Upgrade a spear to musket.

IBT-

No visible Greek units

10) 750AD
Move 6 trebs, 6 cats, 10 LBs, and 2 Cavs to attack Athens next turn.

For continuing the Greek attack, I would consider razing Corinth and possibly Athens. The nearby island towns of Ephesus and Herakleia have good culture for Greece and we will not be able to take them (maybe a war prize, however).
Greece hardly has any muskets. What would have been a slug out with our LBs is easy money with Cavalry. Consider switching DC to a bank; we're going to want infra ASAP.
Hope for a Great Leader. Consider even leaving Greece with one city left on the mainland so we can "farm" for a GL and rush our FP in the north.

Greece, however, doesn't have much for units so far.

Edit: Maybe the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD0750_01.SAV) would help...

It looks great. Time for mr. Y to continue the war on Greece.

You two made good progress.

I am only bothered by one thing: we failed to generate a Great Leader. Without one it will take ages to build our FP and we can forget about a good finish.
Therefor I am in favor of keeping an AI-GLfarm if the last attacks on Greece don't yield one.

AlanH posted this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3133286&postcount=128) in the maintenance thread this morning.

Do the three of us think we can finish this by the end of the month?

:bump: how's it going, mr. Y?

I made good progress thought it could have been better.

I decided to reduce Greece to two cities on our island and then try to negotiate for as many foreign-island cities as possible. My turns went very well at first but in the end I screwed up a bit with many riots + a very inconvenient flip :S

But we have quite a few new cities now (about 5) and a Forbidden Palace.

IBT
wool deal with Rome expires
Greece lands next to Shantung

760 (1)
Chantung is probably lost, I change Kaifeng to a spear and hurry it to defend at least one town in the island.
Also change Poateng to spear.
capture Athens at the cost of 1 LB It has a Marketplace, Harbor and 4 workers.

IBT Shantung is burnt by the Greek
Miami library->aquaduct
Kaifeng spear->temple

770 (2)
capture Pharsalos at the cost of 2 LB. It has a harbor and 1 worker.

IBT - riots in the bigger cities

780/790
We have our GL!!!
I named our victorious cavalry "Cavalouria", after the Pixies song 'Velouria' that was playing when it was victorious.
capture Corinth. We now have iron.
GL Washington hurries FP in Nanking

IBT Sparta flips
Nanking completes FP
Romans and Japanese are fighting on a nearby island.

From here, I change all military build to infrastructural.

800
regain control of Sparta

IBT
Rome demands wine and gets it.

810
Knossos falls
Making peace with Greece yields us Herakleia, Argos, Thessalonika, WM + 8 gold :)
This means two more small islands, and better foothold on the bigger one.
Greece has three cities left.

820 moving units
hurry spear in Thessalonika

IBT
our dye for for deal with Rome expires

830
Detroit founded

IBT riots everywhere - forgot to check the happiness after the trade deal stopped. :(

840
hurrying Harbor in Thessalonika

IBT Economics!
the riots are continuing! :O
Athens flips!

850
sell dye + economics to
Romans for Fur, Wool, 17 gpt
+ 24 gpt to Japanese for Physics + WM
only Economics to English for 10 gpt. + WM
trade WMs with Scandinavia
change lux 10 10%

IBT
Greece starts Bach
peace returns to our cities.

860
hurry barracks in Thessaloniki


I accidentially played one turn too much, I'll play 9 turns next round.

All production on home island is on infrastructure.
On the other islands production is at defense.
We share the big foreign island in the middle only with China now.
I invested gold in those cities, I suggest to keep buying all stuff in Thessaloniki (military).
Our main army is in Detroit, the cities in the north are reasonably well defended.

btw: check the graphs. We're catching up!!!

Got it. I'll play tonight, and figure out which cities should be productive and which cities should be science farms.

Good turns, Mr. Y. Tough part about Athens, but that is why I thought we may want to raze it. When we fight Greece again, I will try the same strategy: leaving them with mainland towns and demanding off-shore cities. Hopefully that will get us somewhere.

Here's a quick dotmap with my plan. Obviously cities can't be founded on the red dots yet. Cities below the black line can be productive; cities above it should be science farms.

860(0): sell WM to China for WM, 3g
sell WM to Greece for 7g
sell WM to Vikings, England, Japan for 1g
sell WM to Rome for 3g
buy ivory from Japan for 24gpt; lux to 0%
do some MM, start some courthouses, settlers
science to 80%

IBT: Tsingtao settler->settler
Thessalonica rax->worker

870(1): Japan knows navigation

IBT: Atlanta aqueduct->market

880(2): found New Orleans

IBT: Vikings start Smith's

890(3): zzz

IBT: is Japan at war with China?
England starts Smith's
Nottingham builds Copernicus
Vikings start Bach's, Smith's
barb uprising near Thessalonica

900(4): England learned ToG and traded it to Japan for navigation
switch Washington to Smith's for now; we can discuss later

IBT: learn navigation, start on ToG
how did we break a deal with Rome?
Seattle market->university
England starts Newton's

910(5): zzz

IBT: one barb attacks Thessalonica
Paoting spear->harbor

920(6): sell astronomy to China for worker, WM, 16g

IBT: Houston market->harbor

930(7): zzz

940(8): zzz

IBT: Greece, England sign MA against Rome

950(9): sell dyes to England for 11gpt

IBT: learn ToG
Japan builds embassy

960(10): zzz

Notes: You may want to raze Athens and Thermopylae when going to war with Greece.
Washington is currently set to Newton's; other choices are Bach's, Smith's, and Magellan's (for a GA with Hoover's; otherwise we wait for the F-15).
I'll be gone until Tuesday evening.

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD0960_01.SAV).

Edit: I'll attach it too.

It seems Joe the blah hasn't picked it up yet.
I'd say you take it now Tim.
I've PM'd Joe as he's clearly still active in the forums, asking him at least to tell you whether he's still on the team. No response as far as I can tell, so I'm sorry, but I guess you should assume he's deserted.

No response as far as I can tell, so I'm sorry, but I guess you should assume he's deserted.

Yeah, him and half of the original team.

I won't be able to go until Sunday (maybe Sat night). If Tim can't play til Tuesday that really isn't a big deal, but if some wayward team member stops by and decides to play 10 turns before I pick it up, please do so!

*kick*
I like the dotmap.
How are you doing pin?
We need to discuss what to aim for after the defeat of Greece.
I am stilli in favor of trying to gain full control over that bigger island we share with China now. We need to buy military forces there.
But what will we do on our continent? science farms above Tim's line obviously, but what focus will the other settlements have? Science as well?

Universities, courthouses, maybe some cathedrals. I may think more on it later.

Hmm...pindicator hasn't been online since the 10th. I don't like a two-person rotation, but hopefully he'll be back soon.

We do currently seem to be the only two active, so you can grab it, mr. Y. I guess we're stuck with a two-man rotation until someone else reappears.

Okay, I'm still alive.

I'm really sorry about that guys. It's been a crazy week. I had a trip to the ER that turned out all right, but was a really scary day. The biggest scare of course will be the impending hospital bill and I redoubled my efforts to pitch my resume at every job opening I could imagine instead of playing games.

But I shouldn't have just walked off like that, I'm sorry :( I'll play the turns today and get them up ASAP since we haven't gone anywhere with them.

Finally back to a game of civ

Things look good. I move our cavs outside of culturally pressured towns, just in case they do flip.
In five turns I will be attacking Greece. I think our best bet is to forgo the universities & libraries and go mostly for cash. We use the cash to buy and trade for techs as well as rushing improvements in our offshore holdings. This will be the best way of gaining control of the large island to our east.

Change Herakleia to a Harbor.
Change Sparta from Library to Temple. It's above Tim's science-farm line.

IBT-
Chinese start on Bach's

1) 970AD

Rush harbor in Herakleia.

IBT-
Rome and England seem to be fighting.
Newton's Completes.

2) 980AD

Hard to believe we dont have all embassies yet.
Visit the Vikings & English.

3) 990AD

Get the last of the embassies. China's capital (2spt) is building a wonder and Rome has over half of its citizens working entertainers; they must have heavy WW.
DC is set on Smith's. It should be the first to complete it.

4) 1000AD

Rush a cavalry in Thessalonica. When we get four or so I bet we could take over teh island.

5) 1010AD

Declare on Greece

Capture Thermopylae.
Raze Athens.

IBT-
Corinth flips to Greece :(

6) 1020AD

Burn Corinth to the ground. It had its chance.

No, in all honesty we will not be able to take the new Greek capital of Ephesus, so burning Corinth is the next est thing we can do to minimize flips.

Rush another Cav in Thessalonica. We can do this every other turn.



8) 1040AD
Approach last Greek mainland town
Wow, when did our gpt become bad? I was going to try and trade techs, but I guess not.

IBT-
Thermopylae flips. :mad:

9) 1050AD

Capture Thermopylae again. Didn't burn it, but maybe I should have as it doesn't coincide with Tim's dotmap.

Capture Mycenae.

The Greek's won't speak, but they have nothing left to give to us.

Trade Rome: Theory of Gravity + 527g + WM for Magnetism.
Trade Scandinavia: Theory of Gravity + Magnetism for Democracy + 5g (all) + WM.

Japan and England have Nationalism. Rome has Free Artistry.

Going to stop here to round out the turns again.


Work on filling in the northlands per Tim's dotmap; I have a couple towns on settler, but probably could go for more.
We could rush more cavs on the big island in Thessalonica; it costs 316g every other turn to do this.
Japan has a cav loose on the island already and is at war with China.

If we choose, we can research steam power at 70% science in 10 turns. I think this is best, so I have the slider set to it.
However, we won't be able to rush cavs on the island doing this.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD1050_01.SAV)

Hm, glad I waited a bit more.
Good to see you're back, pindicator.
I hope the Gods smile on your health and your hospitalbill.
And if you don't do Gods, I just hope you get a new job soon.

I'll try to keep up the pace and play my turns this weekend.

Well, I'm glad you're okay.

I think railroads are worth delaying offshore conquests. Afterwards, I could go for slowing research to improve our offshore holdings. There's a barb camp NW of Mycenae; I was going to suggest to keep that area foggy to keep getting the 25g, but getting colonies for the gems and iron seem more profitable. There's a Roman lux deal that just expired; so renegotiate it (or they will in the interturn).

:bump: How's it going, mr. Y?

Not too good. Too many riots.

Steam power in 2 turns, remember to adjust the slider.
Keep an eye on Washington: wonder is nearly finished. We need to discuss which one we want since Smith is no longer available.

Full report:

preturn
Romans have no lux to trade. They lost their Silk to Japan. Japan wants Dyes + 17 gpt for it.
Since we're doing fine on 0%, we don't seem to need it.

IBT
We lost our supply of furs ->riots in Beijing, Washington, Sparta, NY, Sjanghai, Boston, Nanking, Atlanta, Tsingtao, Seattle, Chengdu, Hangchow, San Francisco, Pharsalos, Miami, Houston, Knossos, Buffalo, St. Louis.
I still don't fully understand this game :(
Put lux slider to 10%.

1060
trade with Japanese rather than Romans for the Romans are losing the war.
We get Silk, they get Dyes + 12gpt + 16 gc

IBT
We lost our supply of Ivory. :S
Japan does not want to prolong the deal.
The riots continue in virtually every city.
In Seattle, citizens destroy the library.

1070
Now Rome doesn't want to trade anymore.
I put lux slider to 20%.
Found Baltimore.

IBT
Japan and England sign a MPP.
Riots now only in Sparta, Pharsalos, Knossos and Mycene.

1080
Atlata:Harbor->University
move science slider to 50%, we now make some gpt again.

IBT
riots in Beijing.

1090
disperse the barbcamp.

IBT
riots in Tsingtao
Bergen builds Smith's

1100
switch Hangchaw to Aquaduct

1110
slidescience back to 60%

IBT
English destroy Roman town on southerm island
Shanghai: Settler->Aquaduct
riots in San Francisco
Pharsalos Temple->Library

1120
zzz

IBT Rome and Greece Sign a peace treaty
Detroit Settler->Temple
St. Louis Settler->Marketplace

1130
moving settlers

IBT
Thermopylae riots

1140
Found Denver
Found Cincinnati

IBT
Buffalo Settler->library

1150
moving workers

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD1150_01.SAV

The fall of Rome (and the corresponding rise of Japan) is interesting. Our choices for the wonder in Washington are Magellan (for denial and GA with Hoover), Shakespeare's (I guess it could work some more coastal tiles), or lowering production to get Universal Suffrage (with Shakespeare's as a prebuild), possibly using that as a prebuild for ToE. Speaking of which, what should our research order be: industrialization, corporation, scientific method (atomic theory and electronics are the most and tied for second most expensive IA techs, so the normal ToE->Hoover route would work well), replaceable parts (noting that research will be slowed for overseas conquests)? At some point we'll want to gift Greece into the industrial age for the possibility of them getting nationalism (which we'll want for mobilization eventually) or medicine. It looks like some lux/resource trading may be in order. I should play this evening unless I wait longer for team input.

If Washington switches to coastal tiles, I'm pretty sure industrialization could be researched before Shakespeare's is built. This would mean maximum research for a little while, though. By the way, a golden age would increase income by about 200gpt. I'm not sure I want to research rocketry before fission (keep in mind, computers gives uranium and fission gives aluminum), synthetic fibers, and computers. So I would go for Magellan's, industrialization, and scientific method. Somewhere else can build ToE and Washington can build Hoover at their leisure. I'll play tomorrow morning and/or afternoon.

1150(0): MM some cities
No lux trades yet; see what happens when we have more stuff to trade (2 wines, gems, iron, saltpeter, steam power)
try to reduce some flip risks

IBT: learn steam power
sell it to Japan for ivory, furs, wool, free artistry, WM, 81gpt, 431g
sell it to England for incense, 46gpt, 17g
sell WM to Vikings for 5g
sell WM to Rome for WM, 9g
sell WM to China for 6g
WLTKD all over
New York bank->cathedral (factory prebuild)
Coventry builds Magellan's
Vikings start Shakespeare's

1160(1): lux to 0%, science to 100% (industrialization in 7, +46gpt), switch Washington to Shakespeare
we have coal under Miami and unconnected coal next to Nanking
England and Japan both have two coal
China has coal on their smaller island
found Dallas
rush cav in Thessalonica for 264g
sell horses to Vikings for 22gpt

IBT: Seattle university->library
Thessalonica cav->cav

1170(2): zzz

IBT: Beijing court->market
Boston bank->colosseum (factory prebuild)
Nanking market->library

1180(3): rush cav in Thessalonica
renegotiate dyes deal with England, go from getting 11gpt to 18gpt

IBT: Thessalonica cav->cav

1190(4): found Memphis

IBT: Miami market->harbor

1200(5): zzz

IBT: China, Japan sign MA against Rome
Washington Shakespeare->bank

1210(6): rush cav in Thessalonica

IBT: Thessalonica cav->cav

1220(7): declare war on China
lose two cavs attacking spears in Ningpo, capture city

IBT: learn industrialization, start on electricity
sell industrialization to Japan for nationalism, 43g, 1gpt
sell industrialization to England for 94gpt, 181g, WM
England knows communism
San Francisco court->market

1230(8): capture Yangchow
rush cav in Thessalonica
Switch Washington, Boston, New York to factory

IBT: Thessalonica cav->cav

1240(9): zzz

IBT: Chinese longbowman moves next to Kaifeng
Seattle library->bank
Houston bank->university

1250(10): Japan is communist
England starts Universal Suffrage (maybe this was supposed to be in one of the two previous IBTs)

Notes: lux deal with Japan will expire next turn; I don't think it needs to continue
you can sign peace with Greece at leisure; you may want to gift Greece into the IA at some point for the possibility of them getting medicine
I think we could go for replaceable parts next, then go on to scientific method
New York or Boston should build ToE; Washington should build Hoover

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD1250_01.SAV).

okay, got it. Will be able to play on Friday, I think

It looks tons better than last I played this. And it's only been 20 turns!

I really like the idea of gifting Greece to the IA. I think I'll do this.

Peace Treaty with Greece for their WM.

After gifting Greece all necessary techs (Physics, Magnets, and ToG) they end up with Nationalism as a free tech. Oh well.
I don't want them trading that to Rome for Steam, so I gift Rome Nationalism. Also, Rome is in a war against Japan, England, and China, and I do not want to see them lose any more ground to the heavyweights.

Rush a LB in Kaifeng for 68g. It was the cheapest unit I could do that would potentially save the town.

Rush a cavalry in Thessalonica. Probably the last one I do rush on that island.

Rush a temple in Baltimore. Switch Cincinnati to Settler.

Rush a longbow in Herakleia. All we need is someone to cover the mountain tile on the island anyway.

Am amazed to find towns not growing. Fix this in Herakleia, San Francisco, & Atlanta.

Rush a harbor in Paoting and another in Argos. Okay, I've spent enough now.

IBT-
Chinese LB kills spear in Kaifeng. Second LB shows up.
Chinese land a warrior near Beijing.

1) 1255AD
Kill a chinese LB south of Kaifeng.
Kill warrior beside Beijing.

IBT-
Renew our deal with Japan:
We get silks for Dyes + 20gpt

Defeat LB that attacks Keifang.

2) 1260AD
Cavalry approach Anyang.

Sell England wines for 18gpt (all they would do).
Sell Japan wines for 18gpt.

Rush Courthouse in Chengdu for 118g.

IBT-
Miss Beijing and it riots :(

3) 1265AD
Capture Anyang. With the Chinese I hope to get Tientsin & Chinan as war prizes... just as soon as they decide to talk with us.

We now have Spices, and our people are happier! :)

Science to 80%.

5) 1275AD
Science to 0%, Elec still in 1 and I don't know why -- nobody else knows it and I checked the slider last turn.

IBT-
Learn Electricity
Set to Medicine

6) 1280AD

Whoops, missed a turn in there somewhere.

Science to 100%. Medicine in 5.

Rush a courthouse in New Orleans.
Rush university in Houston.

IBT-
England and Rome sign a peach treaty.

7) 1285AD
Rush library in Thessalonica.

10) 1300AD
Our deal ended with Japan; we no longer have three luxuries. I do not renew as it would cost 121gpt to buy those luxes and only costs ~20gpt for the 10% luxuries I have on now.

Keep improving. Watch the specialists and use policement to improve productivity where we can.
We really need a lot more workers. All the corrupt northern lands need to be irrigated, tons of railroads need to be made, and tons of jungle left to be cleared, mountains to be mined and railed... why haven't we had these workers before even? Every capped town should make workers. Every corrupt town make either workers or settlers.

I'd like to get China to give us those two towns, but I think they may never speak to us again. If we get tired of waiting for them to talk, we just can take their capital and devleop the eastern island. It actually doesn't have bad corruption, so it can be developed well.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD1300_01.SAV)

Looks good. There are lucrative deals with Greece and England for electricity. China would give Canton (and WM and 1g) for peace; they would be insulted to give Chinan or Tientsin (if I remember their names correctly) for peace, so it would probably be best to just take their capital and get Canton for peace.

mr. Y hasn't been online since the 19th; I'll grab it tonight if there's no word from him (have some homework to do first, though).

Still no word from mr. Y, so I played.

1300(0): sell electricty to Japan for ivory, furs, wool, 703g, 117gpt, WM
sell it to England for 123gpt, 57g
lux to 0% of course, do slight MMing

IBT: Japan destroys Romans
learn medicine, start on scientific method

1305(1): zzz

IBT: China drops off a longbowman
Boston starts palace prebuild

1310(2): capture Tatung, get Canton, WM, 14g for peace

1315(3): found Los Angeles, Cleveland

1320(4): zzz

IBT: Washington starts Universal Suffrage prebuild

1325(5): zzz

IBT: learn scientific method

1330(6): buy corporation from England for medicine, 520g
start research on refining (in retrospect, maybe replaceable parts would have been better)

1335(7): zzz

1340(8): zzz

1345(9): zzz

1350(10): zzz

Notes: It would be good to get 5 stock exchanges for Wall Street
Japan probably will get replaceable parts soon
I failed to notice the dyes for 18gpt deal with England expiring; do what you wish with that

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD1350_01.SAV).

Nice turns Tim. I personally go for ToE straight away. Should we start a pre-build for that now and head for it? But RP is probably the best option. I suggest researching that after refining comes in and after that head for ToE and use the 2 free techs to get to Hoovers and have a prebuild ready for that as well.

I'll wait for Mr. Y for two daysor so before taking and playing.

Sorry I wasn't clear (and forgot to mention it in the log). Boston is building ToE, and Washington is prebuilding for Hoover's. Now that I look at it, Washington needs to hire a specialist so Boston finishes first.

Still no word from mr. Y; you can take it, pindicator.

I was going to take it last night Tim, but I have been sick. Good news is I'm starting to recover and actually have energy to do something besides sleep after work. Playing it now.

First off, I notice we have tons of cash and lots of cities that could use development. So I'm gonna rush some stuff.

Switch Ningpo (51% corrupt) to a Courthouse and rush it for 308g.
Switch Thessalonica (56% corrupt) to a Courthouse and rush it for 228g.
Switch Tatung to a Temple and rush it for 208g.
Rush factory in Atlanta for 400-some-gold.
Rush factory in Houston for 512g.
Switch Seattle to a Factory and rush it for 772g.
Switch St. Louis to a Factory and rush it for 886g.
Sparta is 90% corrupt so I switch its Courthouse to a worker.
Rush Courthouse in Pharsolos for 200-some-gold.
Switch Chengdu to a University and rush it for 646g.
Rush Settler in Argos for 44g.
Rush Temple on Paoting.


We are left with 254g so I stop for now.

Science goes to 70%

IBT-

York Completes Universal Suffrage. There goes our pre-build.

1) 1355AD
Swap around the wonders. Washington gets moved over to ToE (due in 7) and Boston gets Palace for a Hoover pre-build.

Rush temple in Kaifeng for 160g.
Kill 2 barbs and disperse camp for 25g.

Fire the DC specialist and ToE is due in 6.

Rush San Fran in DC for 282g.

2) 1360AD

Science to 60% and fire some scientists for max $$$.

IBT-

We learn Refining.

3) 1365AD

We have oil in the north by Dallas!

Set research to Sanitation because that's the best thing we can research in 4 turns (before ToE comes in).

Found Kansas City on the island by Japan.

4) 1370AD

Rush a University in Hangchao for ~700g.

IBT-

Pollution in DC.

5) 1375AD
Rush an Aqueduct in Pharsolos.

Science to 60%

IBT-

More pollution for DC.

6) 1380AD

Science to 50%

Rush Temple in Anyang for 140g.

Kill barbs for 25g.

Rush Temple in Canton for 240g.

IBT-

Learn Sanitation.
Complete ToE in Washing DC, netting us Atomic Theory and Electronics.

...and yes, more pollution for DC.

7) 1385AD
Boston will complete Hoover Dam in 10 turns.

England has Replaceable Parts.

Trade England Refining for Replaceable Parts + 25g (max value, believe it or not).
Trade Scandinavia Medicine and Corporation for Communism (Police Stations will be nice), 14gpt, & 1g.

More good news, we have rubber.

Our research is set to Steem, due in 5.

Rush Marketplace in Chengdu for 380g.

IBT-

Lots of Japanese cavalry on their eastern island town.

8) 1390AD

Wow, fast workers!

Realize that Always Negotiate is off. I turn that on.

IBT-

Renew Silks with Japan deal for 10gpt (was 18).
Renew deal with England for 21gpt (were getting 18).
Lose horses deal with Vikings... maybe that wsn't a good move to turn Always Negotiate deals on.

9) 1395AD
Nada

IBT-
Sell wines to England for 18gpt.

Pollution in St. Louis.
Our mega-deals end.

10) 1400AD

Science to 80%.

England and Japan have their gold freed up again; we should try to sell them technologies. I didn't check on this because I entirely leave it to your discretion, Tim; I know you'll make the right play.
We are nearing Helocoptors. Since conquest is the only way to win, we should start building up our military rather than our infrastructure. Our research rate is good and once we have Helos I don't think we'll need to research all that much more. In fact, between tanks and bombers and artillery we should be fine to take on the world from there.
We are going to want to have cash available to rush airports in our island cities; airlifting is the only way to get troops there aside from helos. I asssume we will have a lot of helos too.

Well, at least we don't have to research Amphibious Warfare. :lol:

If you play this weekend, I'll pick it up and play it as soon as I see it Tim. In fact, I'll do that from here on out. I shouldn't be sick any more :rolleyes: and if I can play it I'll just pick it up and play from here on out.

Mr. Y, come back to us! We are running out of time!

Yonder Save Awaits (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD1400_01.SAV)

Got it. I should finish tomorrow.

It looks like we'll have advanced flight in 1550 AD (we'd need about 75 more beakers to lower it, so it's probably not worth it to focus on increasing science). I had stopped to consider whether to research mass production or flight, wondering if more bombers or more tanks would be more useful (noting that tanks can't be dropped by helicopters), then I realized we could bomb a few cities empty a few turns before getting advanced flight. But I'll take a break anyways, and finish this evening. But nevertheless we can start discussing military plans (I'll probably ponder it a bit in my ending notes); it may affect build choices.

1400(0): sell refining to Japan for ivory, furs, 51gpt, 35g
sell sanitation to England for 118gpt, 16g
sell sanitation to Japan for 49gpt, 5g
slight MMing

IBT: Washington stock exchange->hydro as Wall Street prebuild
Atlanta bank->stock exchange
Baltimore worker->worker
Yangchow worker->worker

1405(1): zzz

IBT: learn steel, start on combustion
Thermopylae worker->worker
Seattle harbor->infantry
Houston stock exchange->rax
Kaifeng worker->worker

1410(2): zzz

IBT: Cleveland worker->worker

1415(3): zzz

IBT: New York hospital->infantry
Shanghai market->police station
Hangchow university->market
:mad: pollution strikes San Francisco on other island
Houston rax->inf

1420(4): rush stock exchange in Atlanta

IBT: Nanking bank->stock exchange
Atlanta stock exchange->inf
San Francisco university->market

1425(5): zzz

IBT: Washington Wall Street->inf
Seattle inf->inf

1430(6): sell both coal plants

IBT: New York inf->inf
Boston Hoover->stock exchange
Anyang worker->worker

1435(7): zzz

IBT: learn combustion, start on flight
Washington inf->inf
Sparta worker->worker
Detroit worker->worker
Houston inf->inf
St. Louis univ->police station
San Diego worker->worker

1440(8): zzz

IBT: Beijing factory->police station
Cincinnati worker->artillery
Atlanta inf->hospital as airport prebuild
Seattle inf->hospital as airport prebuild
Knossos worker->artillery

1445(9): zzz

IBT: Washington inf->artillery
New York inf->artillery
Nanking stock exchange->courthouse (it'll get to 50spt)
San Francisco market->artillery
Memphis worker->artillery

1450(10): zzz

Notes: I'll ponder military strategy tomorrow instead
It would be funny if Boston's culture popped a conscript warrior from the goody hut, which could conquer the two Viking cities emptied by bombers, but warriors can only be popped in the ancient age
Perhaps we could go for the Vikings and England first, and keep getting Japan's luxuries for an additional 20 turns

Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD1450_01.SAV).

Game mods:
- America can't build boats. The AI can.
- All victory conditions are available except Diplomatic and Spaceship.
- Settlers, workers, scouts, explorers, leaders, cruise missiles and tactical nukes can be loaded into helicopters.
- A side effect is AIs can load tactical nukes into any boat with transport capacity ... so beware
- Bombers have lethal sea bombard only (lethal land bombard removed)
- Cruise missiles, stealth bombers and F-15 have both lethal sea and land bombard.

Now, we can still choose to stop research after advanced flight. Here's the plan if we decide to do that.

For the first town on the continent and for smaller islands with small amounts of towns:

1) Bombers redline units in town
2) Paratroopers airlift in and take out the weakened defenders (will need lots of paratroopers for this, just as we will need lots of bombers)
3A) Either raze the town and replace with helos shuttling settlers OR
3B) Capture the town if we think we can hold it
4) Rush an airport and airlift our tanks in via airports.

After the first town is captured and defended (shouldn't be too hard with massive bomber support) helo over settlers to set up other towns to work as airport corriders, sending as many tanks over as possible.

OR we continue research -- the question is then at what point do we stop researching? Do we go for nukes knowing we will turn it into a world war? Do we go straight for stealth bombers for lethal bombard? I don't think cruise missiles are a good choice for lethal bombarding units.

Actually, F-15 fighters may be the way to go! They could trigger a Golden Age (have we had one yet? I don't think we have...) which we would really need to help take over the other island civs. Or we could just have a couple F-15s to trigger our GA.

Whatever we choose to use it will have to weigh the time of everything. If we can keep a tech lead on our opponents, we won't have to worry about having the best possible units so much. But most of our transportation is going to come from airlifting troops via multiple cities established on foreign continents.

I'll play either tomorrow or Sunday, and I'll think more on this in the meantime.

I didn't realize bombers lost lethal land bombardment. Your plan sounds reasonable. F-15s for our GA would be good; we'll have to research fission to for aluminum. By the way, some corrupt cities should be switched to settlers.

Well, don't worry Tim. I won't be doing a big cash splurge like I did my last turnset. We will need every gold piece for when we go to war.

Like suggested, I change a number of the corrupt towns to settler production. I go through every town and MM as deemed necessary.

Switch Seattle to a Courthouse (currently 26% corrupt).
Switch San Fran to a Police Station (currently 26% corrupt).

Good call on primarily producing artillery. Of all the units we will need for conquest, they are the only ones we can build now:

1) Bombers
2) Paratroopers
3) Helocopters
4) Settlers
5) Tanks
6) Artillery
7) Infantry / ToW (Minimal)

Every looks very well organized, and I will do my best to keep it that way.

IBT-

Xinjian: Police Station -> Factory
Chengdu: Bank -> Factory
Yangchow: Worker -> Courthouse (82% corrupt)
Houston: Infantry -> Infantry
Thessalonica: Police Station -> Aqueduct

1) 1455AD
England and Japan now know Ironclads.

Realizing that Flight is only 3 turns away, I switch towns over to airport pre-builds where possible.

Science 80%

Switch Tatung (75% corrupt) to Courthouse.

IBT-

Washington: Artiller -> Hospital (Airfield prebuild)
Boston: Stock Exchange -> Hospital
Nanking: Police Station? -> Hospital
Thermopylae: Worker -> Settler
Seattle: Courthouse -> Hospital
Miami: Police Station -> Factory
Buffalo: Market -> Factory
Ningpo: Library -> Market

2) 1460AD
Change Cleveland (67% corrupt) to a Courthouse

Trade England Spices for 14gpt.
Trade Japan Wine and Spices for 65gpt.

We are still at least 20 turns away from getting even the minimum amount to attack one of those civs.

IBT-

Pharsolos: Market -> Police Station
Memphis: Settler -> Settler

3) 1465AD
Found Richmond.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Tim_SG008_AD1465_Richmond.jpg


Science 70% and hire as many tax specialists as I can.

Rush a settler in Kaifeng for 76g.

IBT-

We learn Flight.

Swap New York to Airport.

New York: Airport -> Bomber
Hangchow: Market -> Factory
Kaifeng: Settler -> Settler
New Orleans: Harbor -> Artillery

Pollution hits Houston

4) 1470AD

Nanking, Houston, Washington, Atlanta, San Fran, and Seattle swapped to Airports.

IBT-

Beijing: Police Station -> Airport
Washington: Airport -> Bomber
Atlanta: Airport -> Courthouse

Crap! I didn't switch the tech and its still on Facism! So there's a bunch of wasted beakers...

5) 1475AD

Switch tech to Mass Production. Science to 100%, due in 4 turns.

Found Las Vegas on the eastern island.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Tim_SG008_AD1475_Vegas.jpg


IBT-

Boston: Hospital -> Harbor
Nanking: Airport -> Bomber
Seattle: Airport -> Bomber
Houston: Airport -> Bomber

6) 1480AD

MM to keep Mass Production in 3 (we barely can do it).

IBT-

Washington: Bomber -> Bomber
New York: Bomber -> Harbor
Anyang: Worker -> Worker

Pollution hits San Fran

7) 1485AD

Nada

IBT-

Pollution hits New York

Boston: Harbor -> Airport
Nanking: Bomber -> Bomber
Atlanta: Courthouse -> Artillery
San Fran: Airport -> Bomber
San Diego: Worker -> Settler

8) 1490AD

England has Espionage.
Hire as many tax specialists as possible.

IBT-

Japan tries to renew the Silks for Dyes deal. I decline. My reasoning is that I think we should go after Japan first. Sign up everyone in an MA. Now, our reputation won't matter much soon anyway, so if you want to Tim you can sign this deal up again right up until we declare.
England offers 21gpt for Dyes and I accept.

A suspicious fleet of English ships appears IBT.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Tim_SG008_AD1490_suspicious.jpg


We learn Mass Production. Set to Motorized Transportation (not making the same mistake twice).

Washington: Bomber -> Commercial Dock
New York riots from the lost luxury. I switch its production to a Cathedral and zoom ahead to see if anybody else is feeling feisty. (Oh, I can't wait for Civ4 and no more rioting!)
Shanghai: Police Station -> Factory

There is a hut that has been sitting on a Viking island all game long. Finally our cultural borders expand enough to reach it and this is the treat we receive:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Tim_SG008_AD1490_hutpop.jpg


Seattle: Bomber -> Commercial Dock
Houston: Bomber -> Commercial Dock
Denver: Artillery -> Settler
Thessalonica: Aquaduct -> Factory

9) 1495AD

MM to get Mass Production in 4.

England and Japan both learned Steel last IBT.

IBT-

England offers to buy wines for 18gpt. I accept.

The suspicious fleet moves on.

Beijing: Hospital -> Airport
Pollution in DC
Nanking: Bomber -> Bomber
St Louis: Police Station? -> Airport

We lose our Furs and Ivory

10) 1500AD

Luxury: 20%
Science: 60%

I left a number of workers unmoved. Do we want to merge workers native workers? I think we do. We also should go through and any obsolete unit that we decide not to upgrade should probably be disbanded. However, we do have a number of cats and trebs that we may want to upgrade to artillery.

I think we want to kill Japan first, signing up the entire world against them. But, we should also be prepared to take as many of Japan's outlying towns as possible. So, I propose the following:

1) Destroy Greece, capturing the last Greek town. Do this as soon as possible.
2) Rush airport in Greek town. (Eu-something is its name) Build airport in eastern island and rush airport on small island beside Japanese mainland (Kansas City and one other town). Cram settlers onto our far eastern island that sits right beside Japan and rush airports there.
3) Mass forces in preparation of attack in three locations.
4) Attack Japan in 3-prongs. Tanks should be ready from old Greek capital and eastern island. Bombers whittle defenses and Tanks finish the job. On the far eastern island just bomb the mainland and have enough defense to prevent Japan from taking the island while we airlift troops over as quickly as possible for assaulting Japan proper. By the time we are ready, hopefully we have F-15s for lethal bombard.
5) Sign alliances to get hte whole world against Japan.

After Japan, depending on our troop strength we either bide time with a smaller foe (China and Scandinavia) or go after England. Once Japan and England are gone, this game will be a cakewalk. On that note, do not gift any techs to any civ so we can maintain our technological advantage. The weaker their units, the quicker they will fall.

However, gaining a foothold on Japan's mainland will be difficult. If you think England or Scandinavia would be better targets first I would like to hear your plan.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Tim_SG008_AD1500_01.SAV)

It's interesting (but not really surprising) that the hut turned out to be useful (some gold would have been nice, though). Your plan looks good. On another note, I think researching to synthetic fibers could be useful, then saving money for rushes (we'll have to see what the situation is at that time). I should play tomorrow (edit: looked at the clock; today).