I was busy with other stuffs (actily, I continue busy), but I decided to continue creating for Civ3. Maybe this is one of the last creations for this game for my part, Civ4 is coming and I expect to start creating for this as soon as possible.
BTW, I have to export the Irish and Phillipino leaderheads artworks when I can :blush:
And of course, my invite: check the BETA (http://www.geocities.com/CivilizationFighter) of my own fighting game Civilization Fighter, on this page u found the files and screen shoots.

Now let's go for what this thread was created, the Harappan civilization under construction. As u can see, there r many stuff missing, waiting for suggestions ;)

Civilization: Harappans
Bonuses: Scientific and Agricultural (Commercial)
Title and leader: Chief Vatavelli
Best/shunned government: Despotism and Monarchy
Agression: 01 (lowest)
Cultural group: Asiatic
Noun: Harappan
Adjective: Harappans
Colors: Purple (Iroquois) and Grey (India)
UU: Harappan Settler
Civilopedia entry: RACE_HARAPPANS


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Harappans012.jpg


Cities:
Harappa
Mohenjo Daro
Kalibangan
Dholavira
Ganweriwala
Lothar
Rakhigarhi
Kot Diji
Amri
Chanhu Daro
Gumla
Rupar
Alamgirpur
Sandhanawala
Bala Kot
Sotka Koh
Rangpur
Somnath
Bhagatrar
Nindowari
Shahi Tump
Sutkagen Dor
Bampur
Mehrgarh
Ahar

Military leaders:
Meymin
Pacumin
Vellimin

Scientific ones:
Vatamin
Carumin


Civilopedia:


Harappan Settler, the UU:
It replaces settler and moves 2 time per turn instead 1.

Icon
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler01.jpg

Build
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler-Build.gif

Captured
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler-Captured.gif

Run
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler-Run.gif

Default
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler-Default.gif

Death
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler-Death.gif

Leaders is simple; we simply do not know any names. :p Perhaps you could nick names of non-Aryan peoples out of the Vedas or something.

This is good news :). I've been waiting for a Harappan LH for so long. So I'll try to help as much as I can.

First of all, this LH is a really tricky one, cause we don't know hardly anything about the Harappans. It starts with the names: Because we have no written records (or moreover, we cannot read the written records we have, because the Harappan script hasn't been deciphred) we don't know any names. However, here (http://www.harappa.com/script/parpola0.html) is an essay by the finnish scientist Asko Parpola, who claims to have deciphred parts of the script and that the Harappan language was Dravidian (i.e. cognate with the languages that are spoken today in the southern parts of India). His explanation is quite complicated, but also interesting, if you wan't to know more about it, you can read it on that website. If you don't, you needn't read it. The reason why I told this is actually only, that his theory is based on the assumption that the texts that we have contain proper names, which are based on the names of divinities, which again are based on the names of stars. He claims to have found the following names of stars, which could have been pronounced (assuming that the Harappan language really was Dravidian) somewhat like that:

Meymin
Pacumin
Vellimin
Vatamin
Vatavelli
Carumin

So these words could have been used to form personal names. Of course this is very, very hypothetical, but as we don't have any other clue, you could use one of these words as the name of the leader (unless you want to invent a name completely from your phantasy). I personally have been using Vatavelli, because IMO it sounds best.

Also, here's a city list:

Harappa
Mohenjo Daro
Kalibangan
Dholavira
Ganweriwala
Lothar
Rakhigarhi
Kot Diji
Amri
Chanhu Daro
Gumla
Rupar
Alamgirpur
Sandhanawala
Bala Kot
Sotka Koh
Rangpur
Somnath
Bhagatrar
Nindowari
Shahi Tump
Sutkagen Dor
Bampur
Mehrgarh
Ahar

And finally, here's the pic of a Harappan sculpture depicting probably a priest or so. Maybe that could serve for your inspiration:
http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~gwang/priestHarappa.jpg
Another statue:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Bay/7051/image003.jpg

Cool tips Aion :goodjob:
I upgrated the post number 01 with some changes :)

Two comments about the UU; (i) it's overpowered (compare to the Gallic Swordsman!), and (ii) it looks way to advanced for the Harappans. You can't use a bronze sword that way.

Yes, swordsman is too late for the Harappans. What if the Harappans had a warrior replacement, like Sumeria (which existed about at the same time as the Harappans) has in C3C?

As far as tech level goes, an Harappan UU probably ought be a spearman or archer replacement.

(Very roughly, Sumeria is 3200-2000 BC, the Harappans 2500-1700 BC.)

Edit: I'd probably put Mohenjo Daro as the capital; it was the greatest of all (known) Harappan cities.

I've chosen this swordsman, cos it is Indian and it is cool, but I agree, it is too late for a civilization as Harappan :) All the good powers for UUs of the ancient age have been already chosen, for this reason I choice that one (+1 attack, +1 moviment, +10 shields).
But no problem, I can change the UU. The new suggestions r good, if there is any unit on boarders that I can use, please, post the link ;) In case not, I can try to do one myself (if there is images of Harappan warriors for reference, it could be great).

A 2.1.1 15s warrior-and-archer replacement might work.

I'll be looking for pictures ...

Not much help, I thought you might like the only GIS hit on "harappa warrior":

http://www.r0x0rz.org/upload/ayronis/pong4/2_3850_BC_Harappa_(revised).jpg

It appears the Harappans were not in the habit of depicting warriors or warfare in their art, and few weapons have been found at Harappan sites. According to one page, they didn't know the bow, tho that seems hard to believe.

It appears the Harappans were not in the habit of depicting warriors or warfare in their art, and few weapons have been found at Harappan sites. According to one page, they didn't know the bow, tho that seems hard to believe.

since they don't have too many experience in the art of war, the UU could be a Scout with 3 moviments or a scout with +1 defese. or maybe a better worker or a better settler :) A Indian/Harappan scout, settler or worker could fit for other uses too.

First LH view on post number 01, if someone has suggestions for changes in his face, clothes or scenario, tell me ;) :)

Cool :goodjob:! He really looks like the guy from the statue. As for the UU, a better worker would be a completely new concept. But it could be a good idea, as it would fit the Harappans, and it's nice to have some variety (not only swordsman and knight replacements).

"brave harappan warrior explorers" :lol:

very nice lh ;)

I belive he looks way too Asian
and as a very similar face to some of your other Asian civs
I belive he would should look more Indian but maybe darker skin?
on one of those statues there appears to be some dredlocks

how about having a UU worker??

I'm glad people have enjoyed the first view, the same about the idea of a worker or settler UU for this civ. If I have time, I'll post the first view of this UU in some hours. :D


I belive he looks way too Asian
and as a very similar face to some of your other Asian civs
I belive he would should look more Indian but maybe darker skin?
on one of those statues there appears to be some dredlocks

how about having a UU worker??

I did some changes trying give him a more Indian look, new artworks in the post number 01 :)

Shiro might be right. His face could look more indian. IIRC I've read somewhere that the Harappans might have had a rather dark skin, but IMHO it shouldn't be all that dark.

About the bonuses: Scientific is obvious, because they were so advanced at such an early time, but I think commercial would be better than agricultural. After all the Harappans had a very urbanized civilization, and I've read that there was much trade between the Indus Valley and the mid-east region, there were even contacts to the Sumerians.

Civarmy- Indians are not Asian at all, atleast not Mongoliod. He should look alot more Cacasian i.e. like a European or Middle Eastern or Indian
although India is made up of many races non are like a person from Thailand, China, Japan etc.
here are some photos that may help you
http://www.pilgrimage-india.com/gifs/indian-religion-hpg-pic.jpg
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/south/02/23/india.march.reut/vstory.india.holyman.ap.jpg
http://theory.tifr.res.in/~himanshu/images/10270007.jpg
http://1srk.8m.com/Aug_G_1/Asoka-1.jpg
or just search google images

The problem is we dont know how much present-day Indians have genetically in common with the Harappans and how much they have been influenced by later migration (Aryan invasion).

It's a fairly popular idea that the Harappans were Dravidian-speakers, so you could take a modern Tamil as model for looks with some justification.

(Yes, I know there is no necessary connection 'tween race and language. We're dealing in more or less qualified guesses here, and this one is about as good as any.)

but I belive it is safe to say that ancient Indians probably have some connection to Modern day
there are so many different types of Indians in India, I belive some have a connection to Harappens

Also language is a possible link to race, Mongolian, Korean and Japanese are all related languages. And also we are all racially linked as well. However China is close to all those countries. And yet we are not related to "ethnic" Chinese (Han)

I said there's no necessary connection 'tween race and language (take a look at modern America). Of course, there's often a strong correlation.

modern America is a mix of European, Native American and African, people in the Americans speak European languages and some still speak Native American languages.
So there is a possible link.

Do you know what "correlation" means?

it means a "a relationship between___ and ___" right?
like a relationship between language and racial history.

Im actually not too sure.. I looked it up

It means a specific sort of relationship. You're probably better off looking it up in a book on statistics, but briefly, that property A and B are (positively) correlated means that an object that has A is more likely to have B than one that does not have A, and vice versa.

but it is a relation
my English is not so good, so I do not use words that are hard to explain sorry....

After look for some minutes the statues, I think the Harappans look like Indians with some Asiatic elements, mainly in the eyes. I think I'll go to back to the first skin color and I'll try do to some changes in the face, I don't know what exactly yet. I expect this weekend show the news, the other eras and the worker/settler UU :)

great to see you back in action Civ. You are one of the most talented and creative people around on these boards, and its good to see you haven't retired...

Retiring isnt bad. We shouldnt forget that this is just a game.
And so is civ3 :lol:

heresy? :lol:

you may want to base him off what average Pakistanis look like not Indians.

Pakistanis are Indians for all I care. :p What next, someone is gonna claim Xhosa and Afrikaners aren't the same? ;)

The Indus valley has received alot of immigrants from Iran and Central Asia over the last couple millennia, so I doubt they're a much better model.

they arent really the "same"
Although neither has a single race
the back down that makes up these 2 countries is so:
Pakistan: Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashtun (Pathan), Baloch, Muhajir
India: Indo-Aryan 72%, Dravidian 25%, Mongoloid and other 3%
this is from the CIA website...
which is pretty relaiable although I didnt like that the consider Ryukyu, Yamato, and Ainu to be all just Japanese... -_-

the reason I said this is because Pakistan doesnt seems to have a major Aryan population, and because many sites claim (not proven) that the Harappans are Pakistani not Indian

The Ainu? Japanese? They have more in common with the Inuit if you ask me...

well they are the one of the first "Japanese"...
they are such a mystery every time I read about them I get more confused sometimes I read they are cacasian sometimes seberian, sometimes they are the Jomon people, sometimes they are seprate ToT I dont know~~~

sorry for wrtitting so much on your board... it is summer vacation and I cant work on my civ stuff here, so I become boring ToT//
sorry

I have seen articles where the Ainu are described as related strongly to the Inuit(Eskimos). In Sengoku they depicted them as Ashigaru peasants led by Ronin...... :eek: :rolleyes:

they arent really the "same"
Although neither has a single race
the back down that makes up these 2 countries is so:
Pakistan: Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashtun (Pathan), Baloch, Muhajir
India: Indo-Aryan 72%, Dravidian 25%, Mongoloid and other 3%
this is from the CIA website...
which is pretty relaiable although I didnt like that the consider Ryukyu, Yamato, and Ainu to be all just Japanese... -_-

the reason I said this is because Pakistan doesnt seems to have a major Aryan population, and because many sites claim (not proven) that the Harappans are Pakistani not Indian
Most Pakistani's speak Aryan languages, like Urdu, Panjabi, Pashtun, Baluchi, and Sindhi.

New artworks in post number 01. I can't change his face in this stage anymore (the last changes r still present in this new preview) and I'll post the other eras soon. Also the UU :)

EDITED: The two missing eras r on post number 01 and I expect post in some hours the UU, the Harappan settler ;)

Ladies and getlements, I have pleasure to introduce to u, the Harappan Settler :) It also fits for Indian settler.

Icon
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler01.jpg

Build
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler-Build.gif

Captured
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler-Captured.gif

Run
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler-Run.gif

Default
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler-Default.gif

Death
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HarappanSettler-Death.gif

Intended as an UU?

It's perhaps worth noting that the AI doesn't handle Settlers with nonzero defense well.

Perhaps it can cost less population, only -1, then it would be really an important uu in the early age

Intended as an UU?

It's perhaps worth noting that the AI doesn't handle Settlers with nonzero defense well.

Yes, instead currently setter, two moviments per turn. I think it is not a good idea has deffensive or offensive power for this unit, cos it could generate an early golden age.

edited

Perhaps it can cost less population, only -1, then it would be really an important uu in the early age

it is a new (and cool) option too.

cool tie-die pants on that fella! He could also pass for a 1960's yoga hippie! :lol: :lol:

cool tie-die pants on that fella! He could also pass for a 1960's yoga hippie! :lol: :lol:

:lol:
BTW, the missing animations r available on post number 1 and some posts above this one :)
The unit was not exported yet, I expect to do this tomorrow.