Daveshack has proposed an amendmant here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=126212) which would allow the use of mapstat and civassit II; for he says they do not reveal any information that wouldn't already be known.

here is his rewrite of rule 2.2 - save manipulation

2.2 - Save Manipulation

Description: No team or individual is permitted to use the PBEM save games or other files to obtain information or alter any in-game element. This includes monitoring or altering memory while the game is loaded. Using MapStat or CivAssist II or such utilities is also prohibited.

Definition: An individual scanning or monitoring loaded files into memory or altering a file can obtain location information and more, they can even alter in game data.

Purpose: To prevent the use of outside game elements to break the spirit of the game by allowing someone to outright cheat.

Verdict: Using these or any other methods that allows altering the in-game content through any means is a violation of this rule.


mapstat (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18243)
civassist II (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=118540) (original civassist (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2147355#post2147355))

I don't know ... my gut reaction is that I'm against it ... however if there is no additional information imparted using these programmes then I guess it would be OK ... I am currently working on a spreadsheet (which i will post for feedback internally soon) ... :lol: man that bracket can be interpreted in many ways :blush:

Anyway ... if it is the general concensus that these powerfull tools are used then Ok ... I certainly won't and prefer not to ...

The reason for this poll is that another team's member can only play the game in spurts of time due to family pressures ... without these aids he will retire from the game ...

I think that it would probably take some of the fun factor out of the game ... I relish the time when respective strategies clash in confict (or non-aggressive con arting) with another team ... and will view it more than a bunch of variables thrown into a mathematical equation ...

I abstain

EDIT - However if the vote is tied then I will change to NO !!!

From what DS said, I think it is a good thing to use these Utlities as long a they do not give info about the other teams.

After an explaination by DS, i think it is a good thing to vote yes for this.

I dont see anything wrong with using CivAssist

I think I will abstain on this one... those programs technically do not give any information that is not available in game so they are not cheats. However, we are only talking about 1 turn per day, so it is really not that much work to check towns yourself for riots.

Of course, I may just be jealous because I can't get CivAssist II to work on my computer (something about the .Net framework on Windows ME, I think), and the information it gives may be technically available in game, but it is very difficult to come by. For example, I believe it can calculate what your income would be under various governments or how many units it takes to prevent a town from flipping to a rival. Hypothetically, someone could do this with pencil and paper, but I really don't know anyone who could in the real world (taking into account the different corruption levels for different governments, etc.) Is that type of information really available in game?

I think I will abstain on this one... those programs technically do not give any information that is not available in game so they are not cheats. However, we are only talking about 1 turn per day, so it is really not that much work to check towns yourself for riots.

Of course, I may just be jealous because I can't get CivAssist II to work on my computer (something about the .Net framework on Windows ME, I think), and the information it gives may be technically available in game, but it is very difficult to come by. For example, I believe it can calculate what your income would be under various governments or how many units it takes to prevent a town from flipping to a rival. Hypothetically, someone could do this with pencil and paper, but I really don't know anyone who could in the real world (taking into account the different corruption levels for different governments, etc.) Is that type of information really available in game?
You could use an earlyer version of CivAssist.

Never having experienced these utilities, I don't feel qualified to vote; therefore Abstain. However, I like Fe3333au, if it's close, I vote no.

On second thought, I vote No nonetheless. I am swayed by Chamnix' reasoning, as well as one other thing: I think we'll beat them anyway. We're the Greeks! We almost Have to win.

Civ Assist 2 was designed so it wouldn't be spoilerish, IIRC. So it should be allowed.
Mapstat i'm not so sure about...