To Fanatics... hello! After lurking here, I thought a succession game was too good NOT to try, so folks from Realms Beyond Diablo are gathering for our first succession game. :egypt:

CharisGhandi Succession Game 1 - Random civ, opponents, Monarch diff.
Roaming barbarians, large archipelago land mass, rnd temp and age.
First player 25 turns, second player 20, third 15, then 10 after that.
No reload, either of turn, game or battle.

Current turn order: Charis, Sirian, Hocus, Jaffa, Skandranon, Cy. In the post immediately following you'll find a zip file with the saved game. To post your game when done, you need to zip it, and 'register' at this forum to enable posting. Sirian should respond "got it" within 24 hrs and post his end-of-turn-save within 48 hrs of THIS post. Good luck all!! :goodjob:
Non-writers may give a description of their turn in FAR less detail than I, although from Sirian I do expect a fully analytical and expertly written report! :lol:

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4000 B.C. (0) - Ghandi of the Indians perishes, and from his loins spring
Prime Minister Charis :king: , a Commercial yet Religious son with great
ambitions for his people and land. His slim corner of the world
looks simply wonderful, with two patches of sacred cows nearby,
on the coast, with an inland lake, and with hills and plains and
plenty of desert visible (for as you know, India is a hot land). There
seemed no better place, and no better time, than to found the great
city of Delhi right where he stood. A happy and hard worker, Venkat, was
sent forth to . For self-defense, CharisGhandi set about training a warrior.

What thoughts did he have as he surveyed the situation, and his
background? As a Religious nation, he knew Ceremonial burial, and
had the option for early and cheap temples. What would India be
without temples? An early one would be fitting, and would help our
sense of culture. (After Burial is Mysticism which allows The Oracle. On
a lower diff I might try for this, but don't think it likely wise here).
There would also be NO Anarchy later, if we chose to switch governments.
As a commercial people the Alphabet (the Devanagari script) was known to us.
Less direct advantages, but needed for Mathematics and Writing (Sanskrit).
As a Commercial nation, we get extra commerce bonus


The special unit of India is the War Elephat. At 4-3-2, replacing the
Knight, it's very hard hitting, a tough defender, AND fast. A *super*
unit. If we end up needing to fight, this WILL be the unit to aim for,
although it requires the 'optional' chivalry. (Did I mention they're
upgradeable to Cavalry?! Or that in reality, War Elephants were used to
defeat the Greeks?)

CharisGhandi noted that under despotism, he could gain no further
benefit from mining the cattle squares 2-2-0 (nor would the cows have
approved). The inland lake he astutely noted COULD be used to irrigate,
even though there was no river. This might be crucial with the desert
to the East (too early to tell for sure). Hoping that Delhi will become
a large and prosperous city, the worker starts to irrigate that desert land.

What to research? "Such a dilemna!?" His advisors told him many different
things. His trade advisor noted that bronze working would allow us to build
the Colossus (which the trade advisor also liked). The cultural advisor
stressed Mysicism, while the domestic advisor thought writing and philosophy
the best path. Since it also led to early construction, Bronze Working was chosen.

3850 B.C. (3) - A brave Warrior, the young Rama Krishnamurthy, agreed to scout out
the territory surrounding Delhi. CharisGandhi was tempted to train another warrior,
but thought that with bronze soon available, a Spearman would be much better.
So instead he chose the optimistic path of a Temple. It would no doubt be the first
one ever built on the planet, and it would make his countrymen proud!

3700 B.C. (6) - A hut was found by the brave Rama. Cautiously he approached. A
group of Mongols were there, and were impressed by the stealth of his
approach. They offered a contest -- if they could defeat Attilarik in a
wrestling match, they would train him! Rama knew no fear, and took the
challenge. When he won, they taught him "Warrior Code." So proud was Rama!
(Much better than a kick in the teeth from Barbarians anyway)

3600 B.C. (8) - Dyes were seen in the distance! Venkat would be dispatched there
as soon as he could, after building roads for the cattle to wander :)

3500 B.C. (10) - Our borders expand due to high culture! Oh wondrous day! :love:

3400 B.C. (12) - The great Temple to Ganesh was completed! Alas, with bronze
working still far off (duh, of course, it's very slow going early on), an
Archer was chosen for diversity, and for greater exploring.

3300 B.C. (14) - Rama was shocked and amazed to see a pretty young lady of
a foreign civilization. Jeanette was her name, and she represented the
nation of 'France.' (A HUGE burly warrior stood next to her). Alas, he
was smitten and likely got taken advantage of. She (and her leader, Joan d'Arc)
sought friendship and were impressed with our culture! So we traded Ceremonial
Burial and Warrior Code for Masonry and 10 gold.

3200 B.C. (16) - Srisu, the Archer, was trained, and CharisGhandi thought it
of VITAL importance to get about settling more cities with haste (especially)
having run into a Commercial and Industrious neighbor (perhaps a trade route
could be set up?!)


3000 B.C. (20) - Science was pushed a little to quicken the bronze research.
It was looking like we might be on the upper end of a triangle shaped
penninsula (or would it be a vast continent to the south? Gold was
found in the mountains to the east. Could sent the settler to the choke
point in the hills/mountains next to the gold, as a hill fortress... or
go to the southwest to the jungle dyes.

But wait!! No... off to the east, pass a very narrow pass in the mountains
was a land with a pair wheat squares, and grasslands! This had to be
settled immediately! This would be a gambit. Settling first at your far
expected boundary, and filling in gaps, rather than settling next to your
capitol, and going outward. But compared to the quality of land near Delhi,
this new land looked like a land of milk and honey!

2950 B.C. (21) - Hmm... the French found the dyes. Would they try to settle THIS
close to Delhi if I proceed with the wheatland gambit?? Such emotional turmoil!!
And it's so early yet in the game. It would be far too long before Dehli could
produce another settler... Gah... Well, we have friends in the area, and to
the bold go the spoils. Wheatland gambit it is! Settler Mumbai is sent East.

2590 B.C. (29) - The Civ3 time warp kicks in. Twenty five turns come and go,
and it hits 29. I had set in my mind, "end turn went second city founded",
and lost track of the turn. Rather than reply and break a different rule,
I pass on the torch here... (I promise no more over-turns in later rounds)
What happened in these years? Rama heads far East and finds the french came from
there, rather than south, as expected, and Venkat the archer goes south and
finds.... no one! Yet anyway. A fair amount of jungle. Here's the interesting
event though, in 2590. Settler finds himself right on the choke point, at
the location he plans to settle, and there is a barbarian RIGHT next to him!
In Civ 2 this would have meant city capture, but in Civ 3, your city
gets ransacked. So CharisGhandi founded Bombay right there, which
took over the barbarian tribe and netted 25 gold. One barbarian is left,
next to me, will surely ransack us next turn. Can we stop this?
No, but... we can trade that gold away before it gets stolen! Talk with the
French gets us Bronze Working for 30 gold. Then as a token of goodwill, I give
her 5 gold for free! :) (Rama! You smitten fool!) Parable of the shrewd
manager here -- that gold is toast next turn, let's get something from it! Obtaining Bronze Working lets us change production from Archer to Spearman too.

Thus ends the reign of CharisGhandi...

(What's that?? About time you say??! :eek: )

End of Charis turn 1, 2590 BC - RBD1 Succession Game,
Ghandi of the Indians. next up, Sirian, then Hocus, Jaffa, Skan, Cy.

-- Charis

Hail, my children. Harken unto the campfire, settle in your blankets, and pay heed to the history of the Age of the Whip and the Scythe. :hammer: For as the lineage of Wise King CharisGhandi fell into disrepute, a young farmer named Sirian did take up arms in the year 2590 BC and establish a new era. Coupe de tat. Out with the old, in with the new.

Sirian praised the divine wisdom of the line of CharisGhandi. He marked witness to the brilliance of the great leader, in training our warriors with the axe and then the bow. :viking: Peaceful relations were established with the alien French peoples, and our scouts did locate their homeland. Most brilliant of all, the bold stroke of ordering our settlers to the most distant ends of the earth, to secure the strategically vital Charis-Matic Pass through the rugged mountains, and the lush valley beyond where crops grow in abundance. This decision must surely shape the destiny of our people for all time. Setting to work building a modern road between our capital and the new settlement was set as a top priority -- the only way to accomplish such a monumental and wondrous task. :king:

However, upon consulting with the leaders of our ancient temple in Delhi, and through divine intervention, Sirian was able to determine the false prophecy. Surely it was the evil of smoking the Pungent Weed that brought delusions to the sons of Charis. :satan: Vile demons were loosed through the smoke, corrupting the minds of Charis's great grandsons. What other possible explanation could there be for ordering the massive irrigation of a useless tract of desert while our sacred cattle forage and scrounge on the dusty plains? :rolleyes: If Charis could only see what became of his sons! :crazyeyes:

The people rose in a huge swell against the corrupted King. They signed on to Sirian's banner, for indeed not a single man in the kingdom could speak against the wisdom of bringing water to the fields where our crops grow, instead of to desert lands to evaporate. Not even pride could explain those orders. :confused: It had to be the Pungent Weed. Sirian swept into power, ordered the retraining of the soldiers CharisGrandsontheMadWeedSmoker had ordered. We needed farmers, tillers, diggers, not spearmen. What use soldiers who have too little to eat? Who cannot even feed their women and children, needing to hoard what little food they have to keep up their fighting strength? The organizing of so many workers took an initial toll on our people, setting back their production, but within a few centuries, all the cattle fields were irrigated, and our people ate well. The younger children no longer starved, and as a result, we were more quickly able to train new warriors to the spear, as well as prepare another pilgrimage of settlers to venture forth.

Sirian wisely stayed the course with the orders of the true great leader, the original CharisGhandi, the First King. The road to Bombay was nearly completed during the Age of the Whip and Scythe. :) Our scouts pressed onward into distant lands. There was a brief tension with the French, as our warriors occupied lands the French wished to settle, delaying the founding of their city Lyons by several generations. They did eventually settle in the exact location they had originally wanted, as our troops pressed on in their explorations, but our truth keepers have written of this as a significant military victory without having had to shed any blood.

Continued...

Bombay had indeed been sacked by two armies of barbarians in the same span of years, at the very start of the era of Sirian. :mad: Orders were issued to train a contingent of warriors at the first opportunity, but many years passed before the city had a significant defending force. :o Our scholars have determined that blame for this attack falls not on the shoulders of Sirian, but on those of the Pungent Weed :smoke: and its effects on the latter Kings of the line of Charis. No further defeats at the hands of barbarians would be suffered by our people under the line of Sirian. Smoking of the Weed has now been outlawed.

Our military history during the age of the Whip was a tale of peace through strength. Our archer force explored what shall be called The Indian Subcontinent, and they came upon a minor tribe who agreed to pick up and serve our growing empire as paid warriors. (Apparently, fighting for us was preferable to starving to death, and they admired our rich culture). These conscripts have executed their duties faithfully, stationed atop the high ground overlooking the green valley south of the Endless Jungle.

The great expeditionary force sent out by the holy CharisGhandi's first Incarnation made contact with the sturdy Persian people, and through news and rumors (F11 Key) our leader Sirian has heard of the cities of London and Washington, and rumors about these strange folks as well.

The Persian people have undertaken a great project, the Pyramids. What this means, is not yet understood. Our people are still concerned with feeding themselves, not building huge monuments. We yearn to occupy the greener lands to our south, where fields of wheat grow, and schools of :fish: swim.

While Sirian at first scorned the building of roads "for the cattle to wander" (Weed-induced decision, we are told), it was later determined that these roads aided in the irrigation, and brought more commerce into the city. Paying to maintain the Temple was, well, costly. Our culture prosperred, but our treasury remained all but empty and we could not afford robust research. :(

Sirian changed not only the training of spearmen to farmers, but also the path of research from Iron Working to Pottery. (The wisdom of this decision will be left to future generations. Sirian was, after all, a farmer turned king, and he could not help but direct our civilization to improve its farming process at all levels). One fact of note: the French have developed Iron Working, so we may be able to trade them gold or other ideas for this knowledge, at a future date. After the discovery of Pottery, our people set out to find out about The Wheel. Perhaps we can trade that knowledge to the French, or at least improve our travel speed with the use of horse-drawn chariots. This, assuming we can locate enough horses. At this moment, we have not found any.

After the training of our irrigators, the sons of Sirian ordered a return to training spearmen. It is said that Sirian always supported the training of defenders for the city, but saw a more pressing need to be able to feed our people first. Once food was harvested in abundance from our farmlands, we trained a force of spearmen, set them to defend the city, and sent the warriors on to Bombay, to assist with defense and exploration there, on our border with France. The French Queen is said to be an exotic creature. :queen: We are not entirely sure yet whether we can trust her and her people. Sirian has issued a decree that our warriors should, at their earliest convenience, establish and maintain a garrison in the mountain passes, blocking all access of foreign invaders (peaceful or otherwise) from our heartland. This in accord with the original vision of the First King, to establish our border and defend it against all comers. No other nation can be allowed to settle their people on our subcontinent! :arrow:

Continued...

Once the spearmen were entrenched in Delhi, another settler group was organized and dispatched to found a new city in the jungle, near the supplies of dyes. Our archers accompanied them, and our irrigators are working tirelessly to bring water to their parched farmlands. Our subcontinent has now been explored, and the line of Sirian has, after great study, discerned and laid out the best locations for future Indian settlements.

http://sirian.warpcore.org/civ3/succession/rbd-india-1750bc.jpg

Note the white dots on this map of India. These locations have been determined to be ideal for future settlements. If this plan is followed, virtually every square unit of land will be utilized one day in the distant future, with none of our cities crowding out any others, and all on the coast, to make use of harbors and ships. The white dot near the French is in jeopardy of falling under French control. Future kings will have to deal with these problems. Before the line passed away with the death of the last of the Sirians, it was urged on future leaders to act quickly to settle more lands near the French while we still can, using people from Bombay. As soon as we have enough people to man the two main wheatfields, we should dispatch workers into the forest to speed up construction of our caravan. Delhi is simply too far away, and besides, they have to fill out our main subcontinent, for who else can do that?

The red dots represent city locations that won't grow much at all in the forseeable future, but will still be valuable eventually, largely because they are so close to our capital. The white dots should be settled first, but once all of those are occupied (by us, hopefully), the reds should be grabbed next.


Now, my children, you have heard of the Scythe. But what about the Whip? Sirian was a bold leader in the field of irrigation, farming, and military matters, but he and his line ruled with an iron fist, brooking no discussion, and dealing harshly with the common citizenry, at times. Never did the people rise up against their King, nor did they riot, but happiness was not as widespread as during the reign of peaceful and kind CharisGhandi and sons. The outlawing of the Weed was only part of this unrest. The rest came at the end of a cracking whip. For after training warriors to defend themselves, Sirian decreed that a temple should be built in memory of Bombay's founder, the great visionary, our First King. That particular son of Sirian was growing old and wanted to see the temple completed in his lifetime, and so he forced the people of Bombay to build and build and build, day and night, through harsh weather, without adequate food or rest. The temple was completed, but fully more than half of the citizens of Bombay perished in these few years. The temple honors the great Charis, while Sirian and his sons are hated in Bombay. :mad:

And so our empire has been divided. In the west, Sirian is hailed as king and hero, for bringing irrigation to our parched lands and doubling our rate of growth at home in Delhi. Delhi has become the City of Sirian, the City of the Scythe, while Bombay is entirely the City of Charis, now also known as the City of the Whip. It seems likely, thus, that Madras will come to honor the next line of kings? We do not know. What will that city come to be known as?

On his deathbed, it is said that the last of the Sirian kings intended to order the forced completion of the great granary made possible by the Pottery discovered in the Sirian era. This was to be the monument left by Sirian to the people of Delhi, to help them grow much faster in years to come. :) Something seems to have gone wrong, however. The King remanded his orders on the night of his death, or so it is said. The truth of the matter is murky. Only the next line of Kings can determine if the granary should, in fact, be ordered rushed to completion at any cost, as Sirian originally ordered, or if it should be allowed to be built at a normal pace, in honor of his final command?

Did Sirian decide at the last moment that he could not impose the Whip on his beloved city, Delhi? Or was there another reason for his last minute change of heart? The turmoil this has caused is great indeed, and only a worthy leader can discern the truth and deliver it unto our people. Who will step forward? Who has the vision to lead us into the next great era? Danger yawns, as the time of freedom from barbarian harassment has come to a bitter end. Our warriors have dug in on the high ground above a hostile minor tribe in the snowy lands to the north. The line of Sirian is no longer with us to lead us!

Sirian, our king, is dead. :skull: Who shall be the new king now?

I have heard rumors of a man named Hocus... arising out of the jungles, born of a Madras merchant hungry for the profits of dyes.

I don't know what each team member plans, but I think I'm going to download each save file after every turn and have a look, to see where things stand and what sort of changes each player makes, and things they emphasize on their turns. I don't mind if "spectators" do the same, as long as they keep quiet about stuff that could spoil the party.

End of Sirian's Turn on Round One: 1750 BC. Next up, Hocus.

- Sirian

The scribes of Sirian have not disappointed! For great are both the records and the acts themselves, of the sons of Sirian.

The ancient records have found some pages from the diary of Charis I.

> Sirian praised the divine wisdom of the line of CharisGhandi.
> He marked witness to the brilliance of the great leader, in
> training our warriors with the axe and then the bow.

A tribute to the Amazon nations, for whom this practice is their glorious tradition! :D

And phew! Glad the wheatland gambit didn't backfire! From your image posts, we have a splendid position.

> However, upon consulting with the leaders of our ancient
> temple in Delhi, and through divine intervention, Sirian was
> able to determine the false prophecy. Surely it was the evil of
> smoking the Pungent Weed that brought delusions to the sons
> of Charis. Vile demons were loosed through the smoke,
> corrupting the minds of Charis's great grandsons. What other
> possible explanation could there be for ordering the massive
> irrigation of a useless tract of desert while our sacred cattle
> forage and scrounge on the dusty plains? If Charis could only
> see what became of his sons!

Tactfully done... such strong words are well taken wrapped in prose :) What had gone through my mind was: "Two foods and two shields on the grass squares, we can get no further benefit under despotism from mining or irrigation. Yet we WILL be working those squares from now til the end of time, so putting roads on them will give a much needed boost to our commercial exploits. Alas, he may have been taking the weed, for now I'm not sure if an error was made in assuming what irrig/mining does. I'll have to double check that. (In my first civ 3 game I irrigated grasslands continously then noted about 20 turns later that I was getting no benefit at all from that under despotism!)

I love the screenshots, and the thought given to city placement. Those look like rather good spots. Alas, it will take some time to fill all those. You'ld love at this point to know if seafaring foes will come and sneak in. If so they must be eradicated on sight.

SUPER idea to post warriors in the mountains to FULLY cut off access to our subcontinent!! I had this thought briefly pre-founding and forgot all about it. That should ensure free reign to the entire West. A luxury I'm not used to at the start of these games.

A note to other players: this was an excellent example of both placing your own distinct mark on your reign and using your favorite tactics, changing builds orders in progress when needed, but 'keeping in mind' the long term plans of the ancestors. It's appropriate to lay out what you had in mind for doing things and some tips to consider in how to continue, but they're just that, "visions", not commands -- very helpful. I also plan to download the save files for spectating purposes, but will keep comments to myself. I can't wait to see how things turn out :)

Hocus... you're on deck, but the order is tentative in the first round. If Jaffa, Skan or Cy see this early and have a chance to slip in a turn, by all means do so (as it's Monarch diff, from Skan's post I expect he'll hold off slightly).

And the people cheered... :goodjob:

Charis

Once nothing more than a merchant's son, Hocus was now the leader of a fertile empire, entrusted with serving and protecting the Indian people.

On the rare occasions that he was not concerning himself with the affairs of the empire, Hocus took up the ancient scrolls of the scribes of the late King Sirian, reading and absorbing the history of the people which he now ruled over.

Hocus was amazed by the writings of the scribes of Sirian. They were both descriptive and colourful in their words, beyond any comparison. Hocus's scribes could not hope to match such mastery of the written arts, but they served their purpose nonetheless. :)

Hocus's reign towards the end of the year 1750 BC, and henceforth it is now recounted:

1750: In honour of the dying wish of the great King Sirian, the Granary in Delhi was rush built. Although it did cost the life of one citizen, it was felt by Hocus and his council of wise menthat the end was far more important than the means.

The fortified Warrior to the south-east of Delhi was ordered to pack up and begin his trek to the mountains of Bombay, where he would be re-fortified, to ensure that those suspicious French fellows to the east did not get any ideas about the lands rightfully belonging to India.

1725: It was soon clear to Hocus that this sole warrior, although valiant, would not be enough to hold off the French on his own - should they seek to settle our lands - and so Delhi was instructed to train another, who would join him. These warriors were not especially sturdy and would not last long in a pitched battle, but for now, in this time of peace, they served their purpose well.

1700: As predicted by the wise King Sirian, the savage Barbarian warriors in the snowy north did indeed mount an offensive upon the entrenched warrior, seeking safety in the hills. He fought bravely and successfully defended against these Barbarian raiders, and in doing so reached a new level of experience, becoming a veteran of battle.

Contact with a civilization who called themselves the Americans was made by the scouting warrior to the south-east. Upon my request, I was taken to their leader and we negotiated a trade of knowledge, to the mutual benefit of both our civilizations. In return for the knowledge of letters and words, (Alphabet) Abraham Lincoln provided the Indian people with the secret of the Wheel. It was thought that in doing so, our wise men would refocus their efforts elsewhere.

Ironically enough, it was at this time that my Chief Treasurer sent a warning to me that the Indian treasury was running dangerously low. As a result, we were forced to divert less of our coinage to our sciences, but instead to our coffers. Lowering our rate of research ever so slightly, (10%) we were still only breaking even. However, Hocus was hopeful that the future growth of the Indian population would serve well to raise this, as more tax paying citizens were born.

1650: Delhi finished the training of a Warrior to further defend the mountainous passes of Bombay, and begun the training of a skilled labourer, in the hopes that this future worker would speed up the acquirement of the valuable dyes outside Madras. Irrigation work by the existing Worker began outside Madras, to ensure that no one went hungry.

1575: Our scouting Warrior discovered the outskirts of the American empire, providing insight into their whereabouts.

1550: Delhi finished the training of its skilled labourer, and was instructed to train another. This was possible due to the Granary built earlier, which ensured that Delhi grew quickly and could easily support more.

1500: As the Barbarian raids from the snowy north had long died off, the Warrior defending the area was ordered to guard the area next to the borders of France, in preparation for the settling of this area in the near future.

1475: Delhi finished the training of its second skilled worker, but instead of training another, as before, instead a Warrior was started, to complete the fortifications of the mountains of Bombay.

Madras constructed its Temple, and was ordered to train a Settler. It was soon headed for size 3 and Hocus felt that expansion was of the utmost importance.

A road network was established between Delhi and Madras, ensuring that future trade and quick movement was possible. The Workers were now instructed to build roads to the valuable dyes outside Madras, which would please the people of India greatly.

1450: Bombay finished its Settler, and since it was still size two, began the training of another. Hocus had expansion on the mind.

1425: A French pair of Settler and Warrior was spotted heading towards the lands currently guarded by the veteran Warrior. It appeared that the Settler from Bombay was too late, or was he? It was time to make a decision. Was Hocus to allow these lands to be thieved from right under his nose, or was he to make a stand, here and now, and ambush the pair before they could establish a city?

Hocus thought long and hard about this, and finally decided that something had to be done. These French had long outlived their usefulness, and their outright thievery of Hocus' promised lands was intolerable!

The Warrior was too far away from the pair to engage them immediately, but he was closing in.

1400: Delhi finished its Warrior, and was instructed to train a Settler. Hocus wanted his lands settled as soon as possible. The Warrior began its journey to the mountains of Bombay to complete the protection of the Indian borders.

For the second time now Hocus was forced to lower his science, as again his treasury was running dangerously low. He did not like doing it, but it had to be done, for he feared that he may have to sell one of his wonderful Temples in order to pay off his debts.

It was then that the French pair founded the city of Tours, in a location that prohibited further Indian expansion. It was time to take action. The veteran Warrior laid siege to the city of Tours, and...



was successful!!!

The might Warrior smashed through the puny French defence, and burned the city to the ground. 11 gold was also pillaged, bolstering the Indian treasury to a more sustainable level. These lands were now open to Indian settlement, and for that Hocus was glad.

1375: The reign of Hocus was over, but he had set the wheels in motion for the Indian empire. The Settler from Bombay was in place and was ready to found a city next turn, with the victorious Warrior closeby prepared to be defend it, and with reinforcements from the mountains of Bombay on their way.

With sadness in his heart and a tear in his eye, Hocus passed the reigns of leadership over to Jaffa, the son of a powerful Indian Warlord who was not at all impressed with the puny French armies.

End of Hocus's Turn on Round One: 1375 BC. Next up, Jaffa.

Just 10 turns? Was that right? It seems very short, this early in the game.

A great and wise leader was being groomed for the leadership of the glorious Indian nation. Unfortunately before he could take the vacant throne, a small golden monkey sneaked in and began issuing strange and contradictory commands.

No, cancel those settlers! We need more military! I want archers and spearmen, up front, pronto!

We must have more color! These new dyes are to be distributed freely to all citizens! Yes, I know the royal treasury is nearly empty. Do not bother me with such trifles.

We have a new town in captured French territory? Very well, name it Bangalore!

What? The French wish to make peace, and will teach us the secrets of Iron Working, Writing and Mysticism. Very well, disband that expeditionary force we sent to Lyons, and send the men exploring instead.

Send those workers into the mountains near Bombay! I hear rumors of rich iron deposits, and we must have a road!

The archers are ready at last? And the war is already over! Very well, send them to stand guard around Bangalore. There may be more iron in the hills there, and the French must not be allowed access!

Bangalore needs a temple! What do you mean, the citizens will not take the whip? I will have a temple in Bangalore if it is the last thing I .. aaargh!

At this point the wise men of India threw out the mad golden monkey, and ushered in the true successor to the great kings of old, the one known as Skandranon.

(Attachment to follow, since it seems I can't add it in an edited post).

:)

Great job, Jaffa! Defended our lands, Peace with the French, BOO-KOODLES OF FREE TECH! Woo! :love:

You only took nine turns, though. :) The turn that you pass when you open the game belonged to your predecessor. Check the math on the dates: at 25 per, ten will take you to 1100. So play one more. (It will still seem short, but hey, not AS short). My turn felt pretty short, too, and I took 21 turns, to even out the date, but then Hocus also took one extra turn, which unevened it again, while Charis took like a bundle of extra turns, clinging to his reign to found Bombay, the City of Charis. That rascal.

Tell you what, maybe ten IS a little short, still. If you want to take it to 1000BC, that would be 14 turns for you, and we'll be back on track for the dates to end on round numbers, plus you can whip those slackers in Bangalore into shape. :lol: 750 550 350 150, AD50 250, then a hundred years per turn for quite a while, IF everyone sticks to ten turns from there on out. :cool:

I can't wait to see what happens on Cy's turn, when our mystics have foreseen the discovery of a new grain (to be called "hops"?) from which fermented drinks can be made. :beer: Will this lead to, uh, similar decisions to that of CharisGrandson? :smoke: Or will we see an unconventional yet brilliant line of kings lead us to unimagined glories, as per CharisGhandi's vision of the Valley of Abundant Wheat??? :rotfl:


- Sirian

If you're planning to whip Bangalore, you can get a "free" warrior first, or nearly, by just taking one more turn. 29 shields whipped instead of 20. Might help to block out the French from the iron?

- Sirian

The peoples of Bombay, lovers of the line of CharisGhandi, cheer wildly at the restoration of relations with the french. Such *great* terms too :goodjob: They were wondering if time would show Hocus' bold move as stroke of genius or the beginning of our demise. The great 'Monkey King' has established both Hocus and Jaffa lines as glorious kings!

I thought ten might be too short at this stage too, so I like Sirian's suggestion of 14 turns to get us back on round numbers. Also a good suggestion on getting the free warrior. Whipping, as most of you know, only costs *one* population life whether 1 or 39 shields, and bumps up to two lives for 40-59. Getting the most out of your citizens is good. Speaking of whipping... the Delhi barracks... they have 32 shields to be done, and are prime whipping material, especially since they will (i think?) go into revolt without an entertainer when the population increases in a few turns.

This multinational effort seems to be helping us with the game turn length - with more player turns getting done in less time with the staggered schedules.

Point of order, as I've not played a succession before... do we pass on the save file at the 'end of turn' marker, giving the next king the chance to change some build orders? Or are they to be beginning-of-turn saves? (I'm guessing the first is fine, just want to check)

Charis

Well, okay. Unless Skan beats me to it, the mad monkey will sneak back in for a few more turns :)

But, by my count, I did play 10 turns. Picked up at 1375, so my turn 1 was 1350, which makes my turn 10 at 1125, and I pass the game on before hitting the next turn button.

--
Jaffa

1375? You're right! I must have caught a whiff of the Weed there.

Well, take it to 1000 anyway. You did such a good job there, and Skan can't play until tonight. In fact, maybe both Skan and Cy should take 15 turns apiece also, and we'll start in on the ten turn deal with the second round?

Cy with 15 turns in hand may be asking for disaster, according to him, but I have faith in his ability to be a good team player. :)

After Hocus's turn, like Charis, I too held some concern for our mere survival out at Bombay, but Hocus's vision turned out to be brilliant, and Jaffa's statesmanship simply masterful. Nothing smells quite as sweet as victory! :king: Although... if Hocus had lost that attack (and the odds were about even), we'd have quite a different game to play. :eek:

Hocus the Bold :viking: Jaffa the Wise :love:

What will Skan's line bring??? :scan: LOOK! It's Scan-dranon coming up next! And, ack. Sirian has gone Smiley-happy. :eek:


- Sirian

"WHAT! Who let that monkey back in? He's slaughtering our citizens in Delphi and Bangalore!"

"But sir, haven't you always said that some sacrifices are necessary in the name of progress?"

"Well, maybe..."

"And the blacksmiths love him for bringing iron to our cities."

"Indeed. But have you seen where he is sending our settlers. He is completely ignoring the grand plan laid down by the legendary Si-rian, and seems intent on colonizing the eastern badlands."

"Well, apparently one of our archers reported vast herds of elephants. There is talk of the profits to be made from the ivory trade."

"Bah. We gave the citizens dyes and still they are not happy. There has been rioting on the streets of Delphi which this monkey seems unable to control. We are behind in technology. Our spies report the Persians already have discovered the secrets of inscribing maps. And now he has completely abandoned the defence of Madras! This has to be stopped!"

"Of course, you are right, sir. You take the left, I take the right, same as last time?"

I'm off today, so, as I haven't heard from Skan yet, I've got it.

--Cy

Uh, I wasn't aware of the "got it" rule...I just downloaded it and started playing. I'm not done yet, but....

...so whose counts?

-Skan

If Cy checks in, and wants to defer it back to you, Skan, that would resolve that. Same if you want to defer it. If he doesn't, I'd presume his version to be the continuation, since Charis DID lay out some protocol. I'm certainly eager for my next turn, so anything to keep it moving along suits me. :)

- Sirian

A son of a prosperous Indian family, CyGhandi’s father had sent him abroad to receive his education at the hands of the Babylonians, as they are a Religious race, as are the Indians, yet also Scientific, and thus good teachers. I learned much, and was confident that, when recalled home for my term as Regent of the Great Indian Empire, I would discharge my duties well.

On my arrival in Delhi, I called my advisors together to give me an overview of the situation. When I saw the maps of the known lands, my knees went weak. By the great goddess! My predecessors were attempting to snatch and hold fully one third of the entire known world, and perhaps one fourth of the entire world, should its regions ever be fully explored. Eeeep! While the Babylonians were wise teachers, they were not a Commercial race, and taught to build compact, efficient empires, and they had taught me nothing of how to build, manage, or defend such a sprawling, ambitious undertaking.

Great was the vision of my predecessors, and feeble my abilities in their wake! With shaking hand, I took the reigns of power.

After careful consideration of the map, and a review of all our cities, I decided on a two-pronged approach for my Regency. First and foremost, I would stick with what I knew best, and focus most of my energies on consolidating our known empire so that we would indeed control all the lands the ancients intended for us to. Secondly, and using few resources, I would maintain the spirit of my forefathers and mount an expedition into the northern tundra where none had ventured before me.

My first acts were to send a strong expedition North through the tundra, and to direct a settler party started on their way by my predecessor to a spot pre-ordained by the wise Sirian, far south of Madras and through the treacherous jungle. Still, there was much good land down there, and fishing banks offshore. Egads! The settling expedition sighted barbarians! I ordered them to retreat, as the value of the settler outweighs a few turns, and ordered a Swordsman south from Delhi to deal with the infidels. The arrogant Xerxes sent an emissary to trade maps. I told him I had no interest in pathetic Persian maps, but if he wished to waste his gold, he could have a fine map of India for 16 gold. By the time the old fool can read my map and plot perfidy, I will have consolidated.

In the year 925 a settler party sent out by Jaffa the Erratic 8-), settled the town of Calcutta on a nice bay in sight of great herds of elephants, and I sent workers to connect this town by road, and then build a road to the elephants. Soon thereafter, the swordsman from Delhi defeated the barbarian in the south and the settlement party left the protection of Madras again to expand glorious India.

850 was a dark year. In this time, mounted barbarians on horseback attacked our southern expansion effort, while swarms of barbarians on foot ambushed our northern expedition. Our southern troops vanquished the evil horsemen, but the vanguard of our northern force, after slaying the first attacker, was overwhelmed by numbers and fell in defense of his native land. I ordered both parties to find the source of these incursions, and show no mercy. The year 750 showed the fruit of these labors, as both a northern and southern barbarian encampment was defeated and razed, with each contributing 25 gold to our treasury. The people are so overwhelmed by this retribution for the long-ago sacking of Bombay (our people have a long memory), that they offered to expand our palace.

In 710, our glorious folk founded the city of Lahore in a spot foretold by the ancient leader Sirian. Upon learning of the name of this noble city, there was much merriment among the uncultured French—why, I do not know.

My time as Regent was growing very short. I set two more settling parties forth with orders to establish cities on spots laid out by Sirian, and with either an escort or, in the other case, a military unit is dispatched to meet them at the appointed spot. Likewise, there are two more settling parties due to be ready to go, one in 3 turns, one in 4. These two could continue my vision of consolidation on the plan of Sirian, if the next Regent so desires.

In closing, I have a few comments for the next Regent, to be taken to heart or discarded entirely as he sees fit. The Bombay and Madras production queue were set as placeholders for the next Regent, please produce what you see fit, it might well be time for more military after my expansion mode. Calcutta is set for a worker, as we have much jungle road to build and much jungle to clear, but that, too, was an impression and not set in stone. The workers there should soon finish the road to the second herd, a colony there might be appropriate to produce excess ivory for trade goods. Beware the French! Notice Joan founded Chartres to attempt to wrest Calcutta from our grasp with culture, or at least isolate it. Note the nearness of Paris and the distance to beloved Delhi—a future leader might need to waste a city to tie Calcutta more firmly to the empire and maintain communications.

Finally, a note to all future Regents. In my dreams last night, I was visited by a spirit from the future. He took me to a battlefield in times so advanced as to be inconceivable. Huge engines of war clanked across the battlefield, emitting clouds of dust and smoke and slaying men by the hundreds and thousands with loud noises and monstrous explosions. Once I conquered my terror, I looked closely at them. In my dream, they were huge, and complex, but not beyond the power of our best smiths to craft out of bronze and iron. The mystery was how they moved, for no source of locomotion could be seen. Indeed, they were far too bulky for the stoutest war elephant to motivate. I said to the spirit “Truly, you have shown me a vision both terrible and wondrous, but, how, oh spirit, are these great metal beasts powered?”. The spirit just smiled, put his finger to his lips, shook his head, and slowly vanished. Yet, while this was happening, we were gradually transported to a vast snowy wasteland, with few trees, and the sound of the ocean in the wind. Then the spell was broken, and I awoke. I do not know if this dream be true or false, good or evil, or even the product of too much curry. Still, so haunting was it, I ask this of future leaders. Consider closely the barren tundra my hardy warriors explored. Note the herds of migratory beasts, and great fishing banks offshore that could sustain a small city in the frigid north. Consider, please, if this dream be not false, one day, perhaps, a method of driving huge mechanical beasts might appear in those frigid lands of snow. Perhaps we should risk a settlement there as a hedge against the day when the land we now consider most foul sprouts resources we might find most necessary.

--CyGhandi

ps—Skan, only saw your reply on preview, we’ll iron this stuff out. Sorry, though.

hmmm, let's try the attachment bit again, shall we?

A wounded archer from amongst the survivors of the attack on the barbarian encampment in the far north, whilst hot with fever from his wounds, drew this map on a parchment, mumbling the name Sirian over and over.

http://sirian.warpcore.org/civ3/succession/rbd-india-tundra.jpg

Is this a fever induced madness, or a true vision? Only our wise leaders can discern this. We of the Archer corps can only report what we have seen. One sergeant believes that these red dots are similar to the ones drawn on the Ancient Sirian plan for settlements, but another says no, these are blood stains from the madman's wounds. Do these spots represent potential city locations? We cannot question the man, as his fever is worsening and our mystic believes he is going to die soon.

That yellow dot is strange indeed. Is that a pusball on the map, or is it indeed a strategic location to grab iron? One young warrior noticed that this WOULD make a great location for a canal, by which ships could cross from one side to another without having to sail all the way around the north. If this is of any value, is beyond my ken.

Those black X's, however, lead me to wonder. What could those represent? The green X's as well, are mysterious. Our mystic says they may be sites of interest to the French, unless we first grab the location marked by the green dot, but the wounded archer who drew the map will only repeat the letters "AI" "AI" when questioned about the green X's.

Perhaps this entire thing is merely a fevered delusion.


- Captain Krigan-Toh, First Royal Archers of India

Pardon the confusion here, let me clarify the turn timings:

- A turn should be downloaded, played, and uploaded within 48 hrs of the post of the preceeding player.
- If you can, within 24hrs, post either "got it" or "I can't make this round", it would be beneficial, to smoothly keep things going.
- The goal is a smooth and quick as possible game-- I would rather get skipped on time myself once and finish in 3 weeks, than have folks wait for me (and I for others) and take 6 wks.
- Why? How does this help? If no "got it" post within 24, the 'on deck' person should, if he has time, download the game and play it. After 48hrs with nothing heard, he can post his results and game file. Voila, no extra downtime.

For this round, with the results posted, Cy's game stands.
*** Cy, post the game itself please ***
Since still in first round, this will be the adjusted order:

Charis, Sirian, Hocus, Jaffa, Cy, Skandranon.

Thanks, and good luck.
Charis

Wow, just downloaded the map of "Cy the Consolidator". The kingdom is happy, at peace, working the land, and planning several settlers! I had visions of war and rumors of war, with a country too spread to fight...

On the tundra land, that top red spot with access to TWO whales is a gem of a site! It must become a city in our empire. Now... on that tundra in general... with TWO warriors fortified, that entire peninsula is CUT OFF to opposing countries, and we can settle at will. If we can get two warriors up there, it would deny ALL access to settlers. Let just one settler slip past instead, and we're destined for trouble.

Another vision... the move selling the map was probably a wise one, keeping us from a war with (gulp) immortals, and gaining gold for the coffers. But know this... I would have to think it won't be long before they land a ship on our shores and settle right in the homeland, southern branch. Let's get those cities planted asap :)

One other comment on the current state of affairs. French, friend or foe in the end, is right now "BUFFER". No one come come get us except through the french. In that respect, a happy and allied France is a good France, for India.

As for the "floodgates" to the East... Bombay could use walls and a spearman when a free chance presents itself. Heaven help us if Bombay falls :P

Very well done all, and good luck to Skan!

Charis

Far be it for me to contradict the almighty regarding his very own city, but walls do nothing more than offer the same bonus as being size 7+, and being built on fresh water with all that wheat, 7's in the works before long. Better a barracks and lots of vet units. The city to the north is also on fresh water. The one at the ivory, on the other hand, is a prime candidate for some walls sooner or later, just don't rush them, as it's only 20 shields.

Ships are some danger for grabbing our land. I actually think that it's unlikely we will prevent anyone from settling in the tundra because they'll just go around our land blockade, but we can try. Even a delay is good. The spot on the far north is no better than the red dot in the middle. Both will have +3 food over, say, the green or yellow dots, but that's all. (2 for fish, 1 ea for game/whales). Three is quite a lot in terms of growth SPEED for what amounts to fishing/forestry cities, but only three more pop in terms of max potential. Don't skip the lower dot to go grab the upper. The lower is better as it will have less corruption, and has more forest we can chop down after govt change to speed another building or two. The upper will have a few more shields, with the hills and whales, but those are lost to corruption anyway, so the closer one is definitely superior -- barring what Cy pointed out about resources, which we can only guess at.


There's one point in your protocol that I see a problem with: the second-next in line in downloading the game "and playing" but waiting to hear 48 before posting. If the MIA player then arrives and plays and posts, the other one's game is out in the cold, and they may learn things the first player didn't on their turn. That has the potential to skew the purity of the once-through style you have laid out for us.

I would think it would be better to say that each person has to post SOMETHING within 24, either results, "I got it" type message (which buys them another 24 to play), or "Pass". If they pass, or we hear nothing, the next up should step in, and the MIA player can either take their turn after that or get skipped that round. If that's a problem, then the time limits laid out aren't long enough for some of us. See my point? I would hope we could completely avoid, in future, the situation where we've got two different people playing at the same time.

Now what to do if someone says they "got it" and then still don't post results, I have no idea. :confused: Maybe take them out and have them whipped??? :eek: Or maybe a second "I still got it, please let me have another 24" or a "Oops, I don't got it, pass after all" message? I'm sure we can all agree to cut somebody slack here or there, but I at least would like to be informed as to what's up and what to expect from the current turn-taker as we go along.


- Sirian

Good points all, from Sirian...

> Far be it for me to contradict the almighty regarding his very
> own city, but walls do nothing more than offer the same bonus
> as being size 7+, and being built on fresh water with all that
> wheat, 7's in the works before long. Better a barracks and lots > of vet units.

Ah shoot, was speaking theory, not practice. Is this a change from civ 2? I thought walls were more useful. That's just plain junky then, nevermind.


> There's one point in your protocol that I see a problem with:
> the second-next in line in downloading the game "and playing" > but waiting to hear 48 before posting. If the MIA player then
> arrives and plays and posts, the other one's game is out in the
> cold, and they may learn things the first player didn't on their
> turn. That has the potential to skew the purity of the once-
> through style you have laid out for us.
> I would think it would be better to say that each person has to
> post SOMETHING within 24, either results, "I got it" type

Also true... ok, I think we'll stick with the original then, pre-clarify rules of:

- Within 24 hrs of a result, post "got it" or "pass"
- After this point, if you have not, the NEXT person on deck should post "taking it"
- 48 hrs after orig post, SOMEONE should definitely take it and keep the ball moving.
- The first one with "got it" is the 'official' turn holder unless he gives it up

A consequence of this is that if you're on deck, check the board often, and at LEAST once a day.

Charis

-

Hi, all,

Just got the game and was wondering if it's too late to join your succession game. Let me know,

Zed

Sigh...nevermind. The window of opportunity for me to play unrushed opened and closed. Someone else take it and run with it, and I won't be able to go again until the 29th.

I have a save, but it was played in between packing for a trip and it has several oddities - various losses of units due to not-paying-attention, war with the French, etc.

-Skan

Status update...

> Zed: Just got the game and was wondering if it's too late to join
> your succession game. Let me know,

We were targetting 4 to 6 players, and are currently at:
Charis, Sirian, Hocus, Jaffa, Cy, Skandranon. So no openings at present, but if any end up dropping we'll swap you in. And although it's early to tell, so far this is *rather* fun and I would expect another game before long at all :)


> Skan: Sigh...nevermind. The window of opportunity for me to
> play unrushed opened and closed. Someone else take it and
> run with it, and I won't be able to go again until the 29th.

Shoot, sorry again about the mixup, but you'll get a good reign your next go around :P

> I have a save, but it was played in between packing for a trip
> and it has several oddities - various losses of units due to not-
> paying-attention, war with the French, etc.

Oops, this is awkward. I'm going to take it as solely due to a mixup of of rules and us jumping in quick to keep the ball rolling that this occurred. In general though, and for all future turns, there will be no punting mid-turn if someone has actually played some turns. Going LESS than the full length of turns is always permitted, but we can't have "do-overs" with the next guy. Again, np this time, but I *don't* want to see this situation again! :eek:

With that, we're back at the top of the lineup. I'm taking it, with Cy's 650 post, and entering what I expect to be a build-up era. This will, unless problems arise, allow "Whip-and-scythe" man to move from build up to our next great campaign :P (Well... "no problems" is a huge 'if')

Charis

Holidays can be a harried occasion. I hope your next couple days are relaxed and enjoyable, Skan.

Seasons Greetings. :santa:

650 B.C. (0) - The Sons of Charis arise again to the throne. They survey what
is going on throughout the lands. The son of Rama is FAR to the East, and
lies as a scout. Bombay is happy and preparing a barracks. Delhi, infamous
land of the pungent weed is turning out settlers. Lahore is working on a
temple, Madras on a granary, and Calcutta on a worker. CharisGhandi II
wonders why we are studying Map Making, when Mathematics can help our
students get into grad school. The micromanagers of Bangalore note that
corruption is wasting a shield, and some city workers are shifted to get one
more food with no less in 'actual shields'. This situation will need to be
monitored. Apart from that, all is VERY well.

630 B.C. (1) - Mostly autopilot, the people of Bombay feel uneasy about being
the "floodgates to the East" and rush build a set of Barracks. This command
is being attributed to whippy-Sirian-I and no one holds this against Charis!

610 B.C. (2) - Persia completes the Pyramids (yikes!) Barbarians in the south
were fended off by our brave swordsmen. Various other wonders started by
other countires (how do they have time for this?!)

590 B.C. (3) - Karachi founded, and the new settler from Delhi dispatched to the
final "Sirian vision" spot on our subcontinent :) The injured son of Venkat
holding fast in the tudra runs into barbarians. With 2-1-1, offense is chosen
as the best defense, and he defeats the bar to become a veteran.

570 B.C. (4) - Paris completes the Oracle (eep!) Culture expands the boundaries
of Calcutta, and the people celebrate. Shields come in to help the celebration
via the freshly cleared forest. The Venkat archers press on to clear the last
barbarian, and gain 25 Gold in the process :)

550 B.C. (5) - More barbarians, southern part of subcontinent, again dispatched by
the Swordsman, Ravi. Bombay has a large "content" population, and in need of
'quality' food squares. Production breaks to make a worker, due next turn.

530 B.C. (6) - Noted that Delhi's cycle 3-4-5-3 with settlers left it one shield
short, so we made a Swordsman and went to a 4-5-6-4 cycle. More efficient?
Or return of pungent weed??? History will be the judge.

510 B.C. (7) - Kolhapur founded to the SW of the mountain pass to Bombay.

490 B.C. (8) - Travel turn, the citizens rest in peace.

470 B.C. (9) - Jaipur founded at the 'Canal' spot leading to tundra land. Hyderabad
is founded in the SE corner of the subcontinent, completing it's development!!
The people are proud, and with relish, add on to the palace :)

450 B.C. (10) - It was a quiet turn, some diplomats sent to France, wonder
what became of them?

Issues which CharisGhandi II points out to his successors...

Bangalore - consider a Barracks poprush (Spearman chosen at present)
(The city workers are again shifted to get one extra square, "giving
up" one shield which is wasted due to corruption anyway)
Madras - In one more turn you can poprush the Granary (or a Barracks)
Calcutta - the barracks chosen next is in expectation of a rush next turn
The workers near Calcutta have, I fear, taken the weed! For goodness
sake, somebody help them and move them to irrigate and road the land
near blessed Bombay!! Or, perhaps better, to the cattle near Bangalore.

Science research has been abysmally slow. Will this get us in trouble?

Wait!! An announcement! The Indian Diplomats return from France with news of a
deal only the Indians could arrange! They have given us Code of Laws, Philosophy,
Literature, Horseback Riding, AND Furs, in trade for our extra Dyes and Ivory and
a lump sum of 175 gold. Seems to me a good bargain, and one which should
keep the French off our backs for 20 turns (unless they want to LOSE the
favorable luxury trade ;p) :goodjob:

Oh no!! An independent diplomat reports purchasing the knowledge of Mathematics
for 75 gold! We could now, if we choose, go Republic (with no anarchy, being
religious) - although giving up on Despot rushing would likely be bad. And to
get to the next age we need only Construction, Currency, Polytheism after we
finish learning Map Making.

Respectfully submitted for weed analysis,
CharisGhandi II :egypt:

Doh! Wrong thread! GRR!

Anyway, nice game here!

In the year 450BC, in the heart of our great empire, at Delhi, a council of clerics arrived in the city from unknown parts of the Empire. They called together all the religious leaders and elders of Delhi and did show to them a girlchild with a strange mark on her shoulder. The wise men disappeared into the great temple archive and did not emerge for three days, nor were any allowed entry but for servants bringing more fish oil for the lanterns.

On the fourth day, the Patriarch of Delhi emerged, sought an audience with the king, and declared the Prophecy of the Silver Star to be manifest. He did enumerate the Five Signs:

1) That the second of four great military victories in the "land of ice and wind" shall have taken place.
2) That three silver stars shall fall from the sky.
3) That the line of CharisGhandi shall have passed again from control of the throne of India.
4) That the Settlement Plan of Sirian shall have been fulfilled in the southern jungles.
5) That a girl child shall be born of peasant farmers, bearing the royal seal of Sirian in a natural birthmark on her body.

He then presented the girl, tore the clothing from her shoulder, and showed the Mark to all present.

The king tried to flee, but the guards held and restrained him. Even as the patriarch read the grim Prophecy word for word from the original scroll, now tattered after all these centuries, the king was put to the sword and his body removed from the throne room. The Palace was shut down, and so began the two-score Decades of the Council, as foretold.

Little is recorded of this time period, but folklore relates that life under the Council was not as harsh as some contend. We can judge only by the results we know were obtained.

As foretold, a great emphasis on the Scythe was spread across the land, as the Church controlled the empire and ordered the outfitting of more and more laborers and public works. Our national workforce fully doubled during this era, increasing the productivity of our lands, but also the promise of more improvement yet to come.

As foretold, the Whip saw widespread use in distant colonies, where corruption and greed otherwise undermined our lawful efforts to expand our economy, but once again, as in the time of Sirian, Delhi itself was spared any such hardships.

As foretold, we established embassies in all known foreign lands, vastly improving relations with all our neighbors and rivals, averting possible war with Persia, and securing an enduring peace. India has indeed become the diplomatic leader of the world. Even arrogant Persian dogs are polite to us in negotiation now.

As foretold, our military position has been strengthened. A third great victory was won in the tundraland, as a sixty year war with barbarians, including two assaults on our settlement at Jaipur, was won with the razing of the enemy capital.

As foretold, the French did ship us their wealth for a song. On this point, some details are known. For even as the wiley French Queen sought to seduce our ambassador into giving away access to our icy land in the north, she was in turn seduced into paying us 80 units of gold for 20 turns of mutual right of passage, even as our warriors settled in to their blockade at the base of the peninsula, rending said agreement useless to the French. Pride will never allow the French to admit they have been duped, so you may be sure that French histories will record this Indian bargain as a French victory. Those liars have no shame.

As foretold, our knowledge of the world and all lands connected to India has been completed. As foretold, we have won a military victory over Persia without shedding blood. Our expeditionary force did secretly destroy their roads through a key forest without being detected. More such harassment activity may be possible in outlying areas of the Persian Empire.

As foretold, the Second Age of the Whip and the Scythe has passed without major war, and another agricultural and labor revolution has taken place. Our workers bring water to a parched desert city, mine the heart of the mountain range overlooking Bombay, cut their way slowly through the thick jungles, and connect the most distant lands to the heart of our empire with roads.

As foretold, the Persians have settled new colonies on distant shores and we have learned about it. We have also heard rumors of new civilizations located off the eastern shores of America. Surely, we must make contact with these peoples as quickly as possible, sell them our world maps, buy theirs, and sell those to our friends, establish embassies, and secure our rightful place as the diplomatic, cultural, and religious leaders of the entire world!

As foretold, after precisely two score decades, the Council of Clerics have brought forth a son of the Hocus merchants from Madras and proclaimed him the next King of India. The Clerics have vanished as quickly and mysteriously as they appeared, ending what is surely the most strange era in our history, but perhaps one of the most forward-looking. Indeed, our land and people have a new outlook on life.

What the future holds, we can only imagine.

The Council, before their departure, has foretold us of great works the French shall build before long. Their city of Paris will one day rival our own capital, perhaps even SURPASS IT, as a center of culture and civilization. This is a grim prophecy indeed!

This, too, has been foretold: that new workers shall be produced in Bombay in just TWO turns if all is left alone, even though all our scholars and foremen swear that it must take three. The Council was clear about this, the gods themselves will bring favor down on the City of Charis. Will the King honor their vision and continue to train workers, or risk the pox that they have warned against should he cross them and redirect the city's efforts?

The final foretelling: that India shall suffer great tragedy if we betray our word to the French to let them roam our lands unmolested for the next period of time, in exchange for their gold. What shall be done with this gold is unknown, although it will surely be expensive to establish embassies with any new peoples the Americans may introduce to us.

Of the Council themselves, little is known. Rumors run wild, but facts and records concerning them are not to be found.

Hocus, are you there?

As per rules, I'm taking this now, but I'll check the forum again before I actually start playing -- likely in a few hours.

--
Jaffa

I certainly am here.

I checked to see if Sirian had taken his turn at 7:30pm my time, last night. He had not.

I went over to a friend's house and checked at 10:30pm my time, and he had.

It is now 6:23pm my time, and therefore I am in time for the 24 hour rule, and am ready to take my turn.

Jaffa, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but at least give me a chance to have my turn, in accordance with the rules.

Downloading it now...

If the times shown on the left next to each post are to be credited, Jaffa did wait more than 24 after my post to make his post. However, he also said he'd wait and check back again, so I don't see any reason the turn order should be tousled here.

Good luck, Hocus. May your reign be prosperous and your troubles few.

- Sirian

You're right Sirian, I just noticed it myself.

I'm at a loss to explain it, except perhaps for a caching problem my browser may have had when accessing this page the night before.

I've finished my turn and my report is nothing fancy, but I am exhausted and don't really feel like spicing it up. Hope no one minds.

230 BC (1) Delhi finishes Swordsman, builds Library.
Bangalore finishes Worker, instructed to build a road to Jaipur, builds Library.
Lahore finishes Temple, builds Library.

210 BC (2) Archer in northern tundra defends against Barbarian Warrior and Horseman.
Bombay finishes Worker, builds Library.
Kolhapur builds Temple, trains Swordsman.
Researched Map Making, changed to The Republic.
Warrior near Persian cities destroys a road linking their cities.

190 BC (3) The French, using a Galley, unload a Warrior and Settler pair on the Tundra our two Warriors were preventing access to. It is decided that war with France would not be a good idea, so they are left alone. If a Settler could grab the other city spot, the French city could be possibly absorbed into our culture.
Karachi finishes Worker, builds a road to Kolhapur, builds Temple.
Persian borders expand due to culture, Warrior is forced to move to the only square nearby not in Persian territory, a single Forest tile. This is done to prevent strained relations with the Persians.

170 BC (4) Bombay riots, one worker made a Scientist.

150 BC (5) Road between Karachi and Lahore completed.
French found Avignon on the spot where Sirian placed the green X on the left.

130 BC (6) Barbarian Camp in the northern tundra is destroyed by the Elite Archer.

110 BC (7) Archer ordered to defend the tile with the northernmost red dot on Sirian's map.

90 BC (8) Bengal finishes Temple, trains Swordsman.
Persia demands Territory Map and 26 Gold. Refused and they declare war. This may seem a bit frugal, but I have a plan.
French contacted, ask them for Military Alliance vs. the Persians, they accept for our World Map and 21 Gold, our relations improve slightly.
World Map sold to Americans for 1 Gold considering the French probably try and do the same next turn.

70 BC (9) Jaipur finishes Spearman, builds Temple.

50 BC (10) Palace is expanded.

I started the construction of a lot of Libraries, as I felt that the culture and science bonus was worth it. It will help our currently poor research rate and assist in the absorption of French cities.

Perhaps I took a gamble with starting the War with the Persians, but I feel that the French should keep them busy for a while. There are a number of French cities the Persians have to go through to get to us, so we should be fine. If they do manage to beat down the French, by that time they should have calmed down a bit. I asked the Americans if they'd also declare war on the Persians, but their requirements for doing so were outright extortion so I withdrew my offer.

Apart from these events, I mainly did my best to improve the terrain around our cities - in preparation for when we discover the Republic - and to connect the cities up with roads.

I recommend that a city in the northern tundra be founded as soon as possible, to prevent the French from gaining it and to assist with the absorption of Avignon.

Next up is Jaffa, good luck.

Got it :)

Oh yeah, I just realised.

The nice thing about getting France to declare on Persia is that no matter who dominates, that's at least one less civilization we have to worry about.

Personally I'm hoping Persia hurts France, thus enabling us to perhaps settle in their previously owned territory, but we'll have to wait and see.

Perhaps a peace treaty with Persia at the nearest opportunity would be a good idea? Keep in mind they have Immortals, and the best thing that France has at this stage for defence is Spearmen. This way, we could let the Persians kill off the French for us, for free, while never lifting a finger ourselves.

Just some thoughts..

A new leader takes control of Indian destiny. Rumors abound. Who is this stranger with the soft voice and golden hair? He is popular among the citizens, for among his first acts is to arrange for additional entertainments in all towns of the empire.

The leader argues with the Indian scientists, who insist on continuing their studies into alternative means of government, when there are other matters the leader considers more pressing. Eventually the scientists convince the leader that it would be a pity to waste all the work they have put in so far.

Maybe the new leader is from a merchant family? It certainly seems that he has a trader's instincts. He bargains with the French for contact with the Aztec empire, in exchange for a small sum of gold, and orders that Delhi should construct a harbor, to open the sea trade routes.

"He's not from any merchant family, sir. I checked. None have ever produced a golden-haired son. Maybe the military?"

The road to Jaipur is completed. The new leader loses some support amongst the populace when he orders the whip used to complete temples in Jaipur, Karachi and Hyderabad.

"We are at war with Persia, and he has not sent a single soldier to the front. A military man would never be so weak!"

There is consternation among the wise men of the nations when the leader abandons long-established plans for a library in Bombay, wasting many valuable shield to produce a settler. The leader offers no explanation, but directs the settler to proceed east with all haste, meeting with a military escort along the way.

"What is he doing? This is madness!!"

"Sir, I believe I understand. We have reports that a French town was lost to the Persians and the royal stables were destroyed. If we are quick we could secure a supply of horses."

"Well, hmmmph. Horses, eh? Don't trust them myself, but I know the military would love to get their hands on them."

The golden-haired leader trades iron to the French in exchange for new knowledge. The wise men squabble over the names of the gods, while builders divine the secrets of new constructions.

"Have you heard? The French dogs have made peace with the Persians! And our leader does nothing!!"

"It's worse than that, sir. He has dispatched our envoy to the Persians with instructions to buy peace at any price."

"WHAT!!"

Peace is made with the Persians in exchange for 4 gold/turn from the Indian treasuries. The French are convinced to renew the expired Right of Passage, paying 80 gold for this useless privilege.

"He continues to trade with the French scum, when we should be wiping them from the face of the earth! He gives them our precious dyes and ivory, for a pittance of gold and contact with some pathetic foreign empires."

"Well, sir, he did also convince the French to teach us the use of currency to aid in our trading."

"Bah. We trade quite well without this 'currency' nonsense. I think it is time the golden-haired one met with some small accident."

Official records record the untimely demise in 150 AD of the then Indian leader in a freakish accident as he accidentally stabbed himself repeatedly with his quill pen while writing in his diary. His name is lost to history, however there is repeated mention of his distinctive golden hair. And one report makes mention of a tail...

Sacrificing France to buy us some time may have been the wisest action, once we had war on our hands. 20 gold would have been a smaller price to pay, however, to buy us that same time. We did not need France beaten down. They would have been a robust trading partner, and we could have grabbed the horses from them in the middle ages and run over them at our leisure, them with no iron.

There's no If about France's downfall. They don't have iron, haven't had that horse long enough to build many horsemen, and won't be keeping it much longer. Persia is possibly capable of completely wiping France off the map.

A larger, stronger Persia is our worst fear. We are, as they say, in a pickle now. We are committed to 20 turns of war with Persia. If we break that, our rep goes into the drink. That may have to happen, though, if Persia takes over those horses and then marches on US instead of Paris.

From that situation, I'd have gone back to spearmen in Calcutta, then whipped two or three swords in a row and also upgraded that warrior. Those ivory were something I figured we'd be going to war over eventually, but we're pretty much assured of that being a whipped town now. It's never going to amount to much more than an ivory-military outpost. And right now, the force we have in place there is insufficient.

When Persia hurts France, it will be by taking over, except perhaps at the horse, which is right on Persia's doorstep. That city might get auto-razed. This situation actually looks rather grim to me. If the option to mobilize for war were on hand, I'd be doing that. We're behind in military might, ESPECIALLY in regard to spearmen. Swords look strong now, but can't be upgraded.

Presuming possible loss of Calcutta upcoming, and without horses or any real hope at the moment of acquiring them right under the Persian noses, I'd suggest building some catapults in towns with no barracks, spearmen at Bombay (maybe get a courthouse there instead of the library), and mass a force at Calcutta strong enough to fend off as many as six immortals in one stack -- because relying on France to shield us is dicey at best, and when the Persians come, they won't be playing around.

Avignon is a total waste. It shuns the fish, which is the only resource of high value in that area. Ignore it, build in the same spots I laid out (yes, that close to Avignon) and we'll raze it later, or perhaps keep it if it defects.

Jaffa's got quite a challenge on his hands. I wish him the best of luck. Whatever happens, we'll persevere.


- Sirian

I think the French must have read Sirian's assessment of their chances even before I did :)

Got it. Should be able to pass it on tonight, but it might be late.

--Cy

Amid muttering among his advisors as to some “mad monkey,” CyGhandi once again assumed power. A quick perusal of the state of the kingdom left him greatly reassured as to the glorious future of India, and with little, in fact, to do. I set my priorities as:

1) to see that Jaffa’s horse-grab did not fail.
2) to strengthen our defense with an eye towards upgrading.
3) To use the few remaining years of despotism to exploit the people
4) To blunt Joan’s aggression on our northern border.

1) In a slow motion foot race, Jaffa’s settler beat the Pernicious Persian’s settling pair to the horses by one turn, and in 210 AD Chittagong was founded and directed to build a Temple so the people could pray for deliverance from the Persian hordes sniffing at the door. An extra spearman was dispatched to aid in its defense, and a worker was detailed to complete a road to the settlement to bring the boon of horses into our kingdom.

2) I shifted military build emphasis from Swordsmen to Spearmen, as they are upgradeable all the way to Mech Infantry and I do not forsee an offensive in our near future.

3) I applied the whip in several cities to hurry production. The people do not love me, but have not gone so far as to riot.

4) I pumped out another settler and dispatched him to the tundra to build next to Avignon, along with a worker to build a road and a spearman for the defense. The spearman is already in place, the settler will arrive in a turn or two.

The Zulu have gone to war with the Aztecs.

There is a galley in Delhi.

My major concern is with Chittagong, which is entirely indefensible at the moment. We might want to found a city to hold the border near the captured town of Lyons. They would still be largely indefensible in the military sense, but we might be able to hold them culturally. Delhi is about to finish a Marketplace, and could quickly pump out a settler.

Cy

Skan said he's out until the 29th, so that leave you up again, Charis. Uh... good luck, noble leader. :crazyeyes: :smoke: :beer: :satan:

- Sirian

France may have ended up being a great trading partner, or then again, they may not have. They had no source of Iron, as Sirian said, and hadn't had their Horses for long. France just didn't appear to be that strong to me. It was surviving, but for how long? How long would it take for the AI to smell blood and march on France?

Both Persia and America were quite a deal bigger than France at the time, so I chose not to delay the inevitable. I thought that in doing so, we could settle some of France's rich lands for ourselves, while playing a rather passive role in the War by negotiating a peace treaty with Persia asap.

Anyway, as per Jaffa's last game, I would have thought that it had paid off. We now have a source of horses, and peace with the Persians (albeit at a somewhat expensive price). Persia has also made peace with France, so we haven't lost our trading partner.

We'll have to wait and see if my decision was correct or not, I guess.

Eh, no worries here.

I read your post and thought "cool move."

I don't know how well you know Sirian, but if he did not respect your choices as a reasonable option he would not have spent time nitting them 8-).

A lot of the fun of a succession game (at least for me) comes from three avenues: (1) getting bizarre situations that would *never* happen in one of my games dumped in my lap to deal with, (2) the *great* writeups we have had, and (3) Monday-morning quarterbacking 8-).

Besides all that, a healthy mix of playstyles just makes it more fun for me 8-).

Let's face it, Charis and Sirian are old grannies with slide rules who know how to optimize build order so that not a single shield is wasted, and never hit the space bar until they have personally checked on each of their cities, and know the geneology, blood pressure, and pulse of each of their workers. I have no clue how to do that, keep at least half my workers on shift-a, and only zoom a city when it is yellow or red.

I love to turn things back to them, knowing they will tune up whatever I have let get whack through neglect, and I love taking over so I can interject some mayhem.

So my outlook is, have fun, do your best, explain what you did, and why, and consider all second guessing for the future.

But hey, it is good to be king 8-).

When you are king, play your game, as long as you are not directly confounding the path of the rest of the team, which no one has.

It is good to be king 8-).

--Cy

After solid years of happy reign :goodjob:, the people once again developed a thirst
for the pungent weed, and CharisGhandi III accended to the throne. He looked
over the annals of the last leader, and was in wholehearty agreement with his
four goals. So he set about to meet with his advisors and set the plan for the
next ... years. Thusly did he endeavor...

1. Shore up defenses at Chittagong, Calcutta, and beloved Bombay (aka the Floodgates)
2. Improve relations with the Persians, and maintain peace with France
(Visions of Immortal hordes rushing us keep CharisGandhi up at night)
3. Get us to the point of being able to make our special unit, War Elephants.
That might even trigger a golden age where we could go Republic and prosper
4. Found a city in the tundra at the lower spot of destiny, and push culture there.
5. Get roads to Chittagong and the new city
6. Meet the Zulus
7. Use the whip as needed while Despotism was with us

300 A.D. (0) - A diplomat noted that Persian was angry, and reasoned thusly. He has
excess Wines, which we can trade with Ivory. We need Monotheism for Chivalry and
Elephants, and giving him gold per turn makes it less valuable for them to declare
war on us. Thus was a double swap made. This turned his heart from Annoyed to Polite.

While the majority of close advisors cheered the actions of his successors,
there was one boisterous picker of nits (clearly an AR fellow) who pointed out:
- A Cathedral, newly available as a choice, would fit present needs better than
the marketplace. He noted that with 20 shields left to make it, he could increase
food production by shifting workers, cutting shields from 11 to 10 without loss.
* Just read Cy's comment calling me a granny with a slide rule... gasp, he's right! *
- Bombay seems unhappy despite a temple. We should whip them to making a Cathedral! :)
(But sir, aren't they unhappy DUE TO the whipping?)
- Bangalore, with its solid size, had to serve as the defensive post to the North.
We switched to Barracks to help this, and to avoid the large excess shield waste
about to occur on the spearman due next turn. (Similar situation in Bengal)
- Using the Ivory forest in Calcutta got us an extra shield, halving spearman production time.
- CharisGandhi does not fully understand the library push, but allows it to continue
for now for Sirian's sons to deal with (Hyderabad and Karachi)

310 A.D. (1) - Americans want to see us, and offer contact with the Zulu for 22 gold.
We accept. (Goal 6, met) We trade Territory Maps with them, the Aztecs, and others,
netting about another 30 gold in the process. No one has additional technology
(except Monarcy) and many seem to fear our Swordsmen (good!)

320 A.D. (2) - Micromanage and whip Bombay slightly, in the end getting Cathedral for 2 citizens
Switch Chittagong to worker... let's get irrigated while there is peace.

330 A.D. (3) - Punjab settled in the southern end of the Tundra, right next to Avignon (wee!)

340 A.D. (4) - Not much, lot of building going on...

350 A.D. (5) - While the sons of Gandhi are vacationing in Lahore, the whipped is cracked
mightily in South India. Also, a Cathedral is forced completed in Bombay!

360 A.D. (6) - Harbor rushed in Jaipur. First horseman training started.

370 A.D. (7) - Hyderabad pushed to make Barracks. The Peace is holding out well, will it last?

380 A.D. (8) - We're told everyone and his brother is racing to build Sun Tzu.

390 A.D. (9) - Quiet.
400 A.D. (10) - Fairly quiet. Ended turn with diplomacy shopping for Feudalism. Best
offer was for Territory, Monotheism and 2 gold, from Zulus. Now we're
just Chivalry away from our War Elephants :P

Note with Feudalism obtained, we can build Pikemen! Those should last quite some time.
The upgrade cost from Spearman is 20 gold.

Pundits forsee the end of the reign of the pungent one soon. The economy is not doing
well at all, and we get more science from diplomacy than research. Workers are
now in place to irrigate key spots, near Chittagong, Bombay and Bangalore. But
at least they can say of his reign... he met his goals well. They anticipate a time
of the scythe with econonmic reform ahead.

CharisGandhi III

First this place goes down, then N54 dies out. It's a conspiracy to slow our progress! The evil Persians have been paying bribes!

Detailed report from my turn later tonight.

- Sirian

In the year 400AD, an uprising in the city of Calcutta marked the beginning of the end of an age old era. A young nobleman named Ciri-Yan, fed up with the entrenched corruption of the government, led a popular uprising that threw down the King's Governor. Every man and woman with any ties whatsoever to the government, including those whose political affiliation supported the governor, were rounded up and put in chains. They were forced to construct a courthouse by Ciri-Yan, who vowed that the rule of law, not of greed, should prevail in Calcutta henceforth. Fully half the city perished in this Great Purge, but the honest citizens were spared, and once freed of the shackles of bribery, forgery, and graft, production immediately tripled in the city, and tax revenues improved fivefold.

Ciri-Yan swept on to Bombay some ten years later, where he purged the governor from power, ordered the construction of a courthouse, and strengthed his control on the southeast of all of India. As word of his deeds spread across the land, support for him swelled beyond all control of the line of corrupt and wasteful Charis-Kings. In the year 420AD, anarchy swept across the land as the last of the Indian Despots fled Delhi into the desert, and Ciri-Yan swept into power, ordering representatives from all the city-states to convene, to write a new Constitution, to place limits onto the government and create "elections" by which (get this) the people themselves would choose who would lead the nation!

The nation ground to a halt during the brief years of anarchy, but when the Senate convened for the first time, the Constitution was signed, enacted, and enshrined in the Archives of Sirian in Delhi, beside the ashes of the remains of the parchment by which Sirian himself ordered the cessasion of Pungent Weed use across the land. Ciri-Yan was then elected President of the Senate, and corruption was reduced nationwide almost immediately, for even in the most distant provinces, many remembered the Purge of Calcutta and feared the wrath of the Senate.

Farming yields were increased, mining production soared, and commerce nearly doubled across the land! Truly this revolution produced bounteous gains! Never again would the whip crack in the cities of India! No more forced labor. So swore Ciri-Yan.

Then, in 430 AD, another crisis befell the land. With the army no longer in charge of suppressing dissent, and the people now free to speak their minds in criticizing the government, the absence of martial law saw a rise in unrest. Even the army itself grew restless, and there were rumors of desertion. At least three divisions of warriors disbanded overnight! Only the Senate could deal with this. Ciri-Yan conceived a solution: PAY the army! Yes, it was monumentally expensive, but tax revenue increases were sufficient to cover it. However, this ate quite nearly all of the huge surplusses that had been projected, and so Ciri-Yan laid before the Senate an agenda to expand and improve the economy. Courthouses were to be built across the land, in every city where there was not an IMMEDIATE life-or-death priority of greater nature. In Madras, Bengal, and Delhi, the least corrupted cities, markets would be constructed to increase the flow of goods and commerce. Bangalore would produce more workers, and then start in on its courthouse.

Embassies were established with every nation on the earth, and knowledge and gold were obtained in exchange for our maps. Agreements were signed with the Germans to permit them passage through our lands and waters, while our agreement with the French was suspended because they could not afford our price. The Zulus, also, seemed eager to sign a treaty with us, but could not afford our demands, and so we have told them come back when they can make a reasonable offer.

Ciri-Yan conceived a potentially brilliant plan: to tame and train the herds of elephants around his home city of Calcutta for use in war! He set all the nation's mystics and wise men onto discovering a means of making this vision come to pass. As such, he believed the role of the horse in defending our lands would pass into insignificance, and so he redirected the training of horsemen to that of the pike. Many spearmen units were upgraded to the pike across the land, at not inconsiderable expense, but our generals were very pleased.

Word of a minor tribe as yet independent of the great powers, located at the most distant end of the earth, led Ciri-Yan to mount a Great Expedition. Our galleys were manned with a force of spearmen and ordered to sail around the earth to this location, in hopes of making contact with the minor tribe before any of the other great powers could negotiate with them. A gamble, for sure, but Ciri-Yan was nothing if not bold. This naval expedition has its orders, and need not be interfered with until it reaches its destination, whereby an assessment of how to proceed with the minor tribe must be made anew.

The French Queen sent an emissary to the Senate with a list of demands. He was laughed out of the city and not heard from again. Our generals were concerned about the French marching on us to make war over this humilation we dealt them, but nothing came of it. Apparently, unlike the Persians, the French may be prone to idle threats.

As Ciri-Yan aged, he passed into retirement, and his grandson, Seeree-Yan, was elected to preside over the Senate. Seeree-Yan ordered the rushed completion of the temple in Punjab, not with forced labor, but by opening the National Treasury and hiring additional workers to complete the project. The cost was fairly steep, and some questioned if this were akin to giving the citizens of Punjab "free pork". Thus, the "pork barrel" project was coined, and the scandal of it tarnished Seeree-Yan's first term in office. However, it also won him new supporters from Punjab, as well as Bangalore, and Punjab soon prosperred as the brightest center of culture in the frozen north, strongly overshadowing the infidel French in their village of Avignon. Seeree-Yan's wisdom was thus borne out and he was elected to another term.

Some in the Senate urged that settlers be equipped and sent out to the lands of the west, but Seeree-Yan believed that we were too far distant and too far behind the western powers in this regard, to secure such settlements. He vetoed the Western Settlement Act and ordered the continuation of courthouse and marketplace construction. Just a few years later, when our settlers would have been at sea, still distant from the lands of the west, these lands were in fact settled by German, French, and English settlers. So Seeree-Yan's wisdom was again borne out and he was elected to another term.

In the year 500AD, the courthouse in Bombay was completed, and the stronger enforcement of the rule of law saw an immediate decrease in waste and corruption. One of the last acts of his final term, Seeree-Yan ordered the training of more pikemen at Bombay. He believed that two more units would be needed in the future, that the City of Charis ought to be made highly secure, and that there should be construction of a Senate Bureau of Invesitigation (Forbidden Palace) in this city, charged solely with the duty of investigating criminal activity and reporting to the Senate, with full federal authority. The SBI was the last legislation proposed by Seeree-Yan, but it got tied up in committee and its fate will be decided by future Senate leaders.

When Seeree-Yan retired, other Yan family members continued to be elected to the Senate from Calcutta, but control of the Senate fell into the hands of the Hocus merchants from Madras. What shall befall the nation now? We have no idea. The rulership of Madras merchants has been turbulent, as every major war in Indian history has begun under their leadership, but their boldness has so far paid off for us, so perhaps it will be so again.

Watch out for Bangalore. Yan supporters there have been whispering of dissent against the Hocus merchants. The Senate will need to keep any eye on them, at least for a while. When the Zulu have enough money to make it worth our while, securing a passage treaty with them may be to our benefit. Research output has reached a sustainable level of 30%, but only after heroic efforts to straighten out the economy. Corruption is still our greatest enemy of the moment, despite the impressive results of the Great Revolution and the stark changes made in government.


- Sirian

Oh yeah, and if you guys can be bothered, please take a few moments to manually direct the workers. I inherited a bevy of automated FOOLS, corrupt Charis-WeedSmoking Id-Jit workers. :smoke: They were running around in circles and doing NOTHING useful, while on the government payroll. Well, needless to say, the Senate fired ALL of the local foremen, installed federal supervisors, and directed the workers to begin important projects, but even so, at least a full TURN of work was wasted here and there, as I could not get all these Id-Jit workers off automation until they had wasted one turn moving automatically. :mad: Now get this -- I kid you not! -- not a SINGLE ONE of the Id-Jits made a useful move while automated. :eek: I had to move every last one of them somewhere else, or in a couple cases have them construct a low-priority road somewhere unimportant so as not to waste yet MORE turns with them. It might not be so bad if SOME of these Id-Jits did something useful, but not one did.

Please please please don't A or Shift-A them. It's not that hard to give them orders every couple of turns, especially this early, when it actually matters what they do first, and whether or not turns are wasted just moving moving moving around instead of efficiently working on a continual basis. What do you say? You only have to put up with ten turns at a time, right? Yes?

It would make me very very happy. :love:


- Sirian

The economy sure has taken a nice turn for the better. Income seems to be about quadrupled since the weedy years. Alas, as Murphy would have it, expenses have quadrupled too! :P

On non-automating workers, I'll second that notion. The idea of automating them is SO foreign to me that I didn't realize until about turn 9 that in fact, some previous ruler had set them about these tasks. (So they're smoking weed, but not weed I fed them ;p)

The Punjab is interesting. I didn't know you could "push back" borders when your culture expanse. Cool :) A cultural victory over there would be neat. Although... having some *offensive units*, say elephants, staged there WAITING for war to break out, might help us turn such a souring of the peace into quick gain!

A question on the Forbidden Palace - you weren't suggesting Bombay were you? Shouldn't it be further away from the capital for best effect, say Calcutta?

Courthouses... I can't say I've ever seen so many built. Do you regularly build those, and has it worked in other games? (Not questioning the choice, just so unfamiliar with their effect in practice, I had to ask)

Marketplaces - I just noticed we have four luxuries. iirc, we would get a *TON* more smiley faces with a marketplace in a city. Also more revenue. Good stuff.

Good luck to Hocus...
Charis

Yes, I'm definitely recommending Bombay for the FP site, in the strongest of terms. That city is going to have a TON of shields, so that's a choice location for a no-corruption city. That location will help Bangalore, Calcutta and horsie-town greatly, all the cities in the south to some degree, and all of our future acquisitions in what is currently French territory.

There's often no sense "wasting" the FP early if it's not going to do much good. But the shape of the land dictates things. There's no use waiting another 1000 years for a Great Leader to get it going down in Calcutta. What more could be gained from that? Calcutta would do better, horsie would do better, and it would be slightly better for Lahore, but Bombay and Bangalore and Jaipur would all lose out, and so would that jungle town south of Bengal.

Bombay is the ideal site, and the sooner the better. You want to see a jump in the economy? Watch what an early FP in Bombay does for us. Maybe pump out a couple more pikes first, just to be SURE it's safe, because once it starts on the FP, it's locked in for thirtyish turns.

I'm loathe to build the FP in a city adjacent to the capital, but Bombay is 2.2 city lengths away, which is usually good. Any farther pretty much REQUIRES a leader, or takes for-ehhhh-ver, although in some cases it's worth it. You don't want to build your FP on a city on the edge of your empire (like Calcutta). You want a central location, or at least central-ISH, to spread the benefit as widely as possible. Bombay's not ideal, but it's the best we have with this land shape. Getting it built quickly may ultimately provide more benefit than a more ideal location some 1000 years later. There have been games where I've wasted my FP by NOT building it at all, or waiting too long, because I wanted a better location.


Not building courthouses????? :lol:

Seriously?

You haven't been building courthouses in EVERY city? Even the capital may benefit from one in some cases, if all other priorities have been built. Any city one length away can afford to build a few other things first, until their waste climbs to two or three shields per turn or gold lost at 5+. Every OTHER city needs one cultural improvement, and maybe a harbor if they are on sparse land, and then a courthouse must come next or they will sit at one or two shields and go nowhere, and you get nothing out of them. I've been known to pay for courthouses, if I couldn't whip them out, because you start getting immediate benefits in gold per turn no longer lost to corruption. It's an investment, so to speak, and pays off in both gold and shields (shields being worth 4 gold apiece in terms of what it costs to rushbuild). Not always worth it, some shanty towns are just tooooo far from a palace, and are so corrupt, it won't matter. But anything within two to three lengths of a palace or intended FP is worthwhile.

Scientific civs may find it important to build libraries before a courthouse because getting culture going early is so useful. Every other civ needs a temple, can't be sitting around with no culture. Militaristic civs may decide a harbor is too useful to wait on. And of course, if you don't have Code of Laws yet, you have to build other stuff... and there's always military to consider. Walls, in some badly exposed towns far from reinforcement options, may be wise if the town needs an aqueduct and will be stuck at size 6 forever. Barracks, too, may be important for healing units in a town you expect may be attacked, because it has resources. (Calcutta, for example, is almost sure to draw invaders at some point down the line. Need a strong garrison there at all times, and right now we don't have one). Courthouses bring a city "online". Not always THE only priority, but certainly has to get top consideration, depending on the situation. Any cushy interior cities not directly next to the capital ought to build one quickly.

Has anybody else here not been building courthouses? They weren't worth it in civ1, as you could rush to early democracy at or near 1AD and never need them. In Civ2, they had a benefit under democracy so I would always build them anyway, and quickly. Now they are the most urgent building in any city not extremely close to the capital. Running at 20% and 30% science, because you're too poor to afford more, is not something seen in any of my games, at least not since the first one. Heh.

Charis: if Cy ends up continuing to automate workers, you have to keep an eye on them. Any that move on their own, you can awaken by "activating" them, even though it says "unit already moved". They will return to your control next turn and you can give them meaningful orders then. Maybe you can't be spared from Brewmeister-Cy's peculiarities :beer: but you can help to spare me. :) Please. :)


- Sirian

Speaking of Calcutta, Madras is also vulnerable. Those dyes may at some point look tempting to the English, whose army quite significantly outmatches ours at the moment. I had it building an aqueduct, and after that it will need a marketplace, so other cities may have to supply it some more defense. Just be aware, the English can come plop down a shipload or two of troops on our shore at any point, and the AI won't bother to warn you by declaring war. They'll just attack. They are RABIDLY greedy about cities with resources they don't have. Don't get caught flat footed.


- Sirian

Got it, playing now.

510 A.D. (1): Upgraded a Spearman in Bombay to a Pikeman.
Delhi finishes Marketplace, trains Pikeman.

520 A.D. (2): English demand Territory Map and 20 Gold in tribute. We comply, in order to avert War. I don't think that a third War under my reign would be quite so bold right now. ;)

Territory Map sold to France for their World Map.
Territory Map sold for 1gc to America.
Territory Map sold for 1gc to Persians.
Territory Map sold for 1gc to Aztecs.
Territory Map sold for 1gc to Germans.
Territory Map sold for 1gc to Zulus.

This was done since the English probably would have anyway, plus, it may have helped relations somewhat.

Calcutta finishes Pikeman and trains another.
Hyderabad finishes Worker, trains Pikeman.

530 A.D. (3): Bombay finishes Pikeman, trains another.
Bangalore riots, one Worker changed into a Tax Collector.

540 A.D. (4): Delhi finishes Pikeman, trains another.
Bangalore finishes Courthouse, builds Marketplace.

550 A.D. (5): Aztecs declare war on the Persians.

560 A.D. (6): Bombay finishes Pikeman, builds Forbidden Palace.
Bengal finishes Marketplace, trains Pikeman. Spearman at Bengal upgraded to Pikeman.

570 A.D. (7): France and Aztecs sign a military alliance against Persia.
Delhi finishes Pikeman and begins Colloseum, since it has six happy citizens and five unhappy ones.
We trade the Germans their World Map for ours and 4 Gold.

World Map sold to France for their World Map and 3 Gold.
World Map sold to America for 5 Gold.
World Map sold to Persia for 4 Gold.
World Map sold to English for their World Map and 4 Gold.
World Map sold to Aztecs for their World Map and 4 Gold.
World Map sold to Zulu for 3 Gold.

It is seen that as of yet, nobody has made it to the village that our Galley is headed for. This is good news.

580 A.D. (8): Madras finishes Aqueduct, builds Barracks, against Sirian's recommendations for a Marketplace. We *need* Pikeman and veteran units in Madras. I do not like the idea of sending units from other nearby cities when they themselves aren't overly defended. Also, should a siege from the English ever take place, the Barracks will be extremely useful.
Calcutta riots, one Worker changed to a Tax Collector.

590 A.D. (9): Nothing of interest.

600 A.D. (10) Persia demands Territory Map and 22 Gold in tribute. France and Aztecs *are* at War with them, but the tribute is paid nonetheless.

My reign ends.

During my reign I did my best to strengthen our defences and to not be too bold. *g* It looks like the English are planning something on our coast so be very weary. We need to become stronger as soon as possible. Also, it might be a good idea to improve relations with the French, who are currently annoyed. They pose no real threat to us, but if they are polite we tend to get better deals.

Nothing more to report, good luck to Jaffa.

A couple of comments and questions...

- Didn't realize that 'A' automated workers would happily "improve' over existing improvements. This makes 'A' a HUGE no-no in succession. (Shift-A will 'improve' without mining over your irrigations)

- I think I've only built the FP once. (Then again I've only had, what, 4 games?!) Even that was in a classic dumbell arrangement. So I don't have a good feel for its impact. Glad to hear your comments on wanting to get one going by building, not waiting for a leader. :enlighten: Bombay over Madras I now see better, but... perhaps Bangalore?

> Not building courthouses????? Seriously?
[punch]

This must be a Civ 2 throwback. Nope, never used 'em. Best part of such games is learning important tactics such as this :P
My highest diff game was pretty much a get-to-Knight-and-WHIP-whip-whip to conquest, so corruption was a total non-issue.

> Barracks, too, may be important for healing units in a town you > expect may be attacked, because it has resources. (Calcutta,
> for example, is almost sure to draw invaders at some point
> down the line. Need a strong garrison there at all times, and
> right now we don't have one).

In games so, far, this has been quite crucial. Having the defenders heal was a huge boost vs the waves they saw attack them. (Speaking of which, in my other Monarch game, I was shocked at the sheer volume of troops that did attack when the enemy went war on you. When we DO see an attacker moving on us, it will be not with 2 or 3 warriors but with a dozen immortals or Knights)

> automate workers, you have to keep an eye on them. Any that
> move on their own, you can awaken by "activating" them, even
> though it says "unit already moved". They will return to your
> control next turn and you can give them meaningful orders then

I've used that activation, but... is there no command that says "finish your current action so as to not waste turns, then snap out of your automation mode"?? If not, there SHOULD be :P
I'll make sure none remain auto, you'll not have to deal with anymore auto-jits.

Looking at the Histograph... we're doing pretty well, much better than my solo Monarch game :P But as I look at the expanded map I have to ask... what's next? What type of victory are we likely to get? French is doomed. It's a matter of time. The only way we'll have enough "land mass" to stay as strong as we are, is when the territory of france belongs to us. With that, one city pops square to my mind.

Tarsus.

Just as Bombay is the floodgate, the chokepoint, to the Indian Subcontient, so is Tarsus the Constantinople of the French Subcontinent. We will one day own in Tarsus, or the game is not ours. When is a good time for conquest? Alas, there is no great time. We are behind militarily, and in a much needed season of consolidation and improving. It would be to spread too thin to start war. And yet... if Persia does move on France, we must ally and basically kick Persia back East of Tarsus. If we 'help' in a war that leaves us with Tarsus and surrounding Paris on all sides, so much the better. As far as special units... we're about 16 turns from getting War elephants, and so about 25 turns from having an army full of them (if needed). With no upgrade available, they're a use-them-or-lose-them unit. They're the offensive answer to Immortals, just as Pikemen are the defensive 'answer'.
In such a scenario, of combined France-India, Lyons, btw, seems a great FP choice. Either Persia or America will 'win out' amongst themselves, and will be the other parnter of the greater continent.

So where WILL the victory come from? On this diff and with this map, it won't be conquest. Domination is possible, but only if we started (at the advent of the Elephants) a very major and extended campaign, dropping us back, perhaps forever back, into despotism.) If not that, Diplomacy or Space Race may end up doing it. Culturally we're doing well, second only to Persia. Absorbing the French would put us in first there. Diplomatically, we're reasonably well liked, and a leader saved for United Nations seems prudent.

Does anyone know quantitatively the effect of whipping on people? Looking at Sirian's Great Libarary,