Proposed location for City 5 - Priapos




10 Good Reasons for nominating this site:

1. Close to Capital: Low Corruption
2. River Location: Free Aqueduct
3. Defensive Location: City on the Hill, City by the River 50% +25 % defense bonii
4. Trade Center: Built on a gold mine, access to wine tile, fisheries, river
5. Naval Station :Close to capital and logistically good location to prepare naval campaigns with supply from other cities
6. Sheltered from border conflicts, can become Fanatakosian Research Capital
7. Natural location for harbor and Naval HQ
8. Industrial Center, hills, forests and bonus shields can make this a powerhouse
9. Safe Haven, can serve as the last stand city for Fanatikos
10. Complete city location with a holistic solution to city parameters needed and completes the 5BC requirements as the last complement of our cities.
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http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/PRIAPOSLOCATION.JPG

i have to disagree Provo. i don't think we need a second port and don't think we should build south. i think we should build somewhere in the North East. right now an enemy could easily cut of the Augean Stables, because of all the empty land to the east of the city. we build a city there and we will have nice borders which will give cultural pressure on enemies and keep our inner cities safe.

Vision for site

Size 12 Priapos, Despotism

Free aqueduct, worth 100 shields, equivalent to 50 worker actions of mechanic forest chops, plus counting the logistics to get there. For the other proposed site, a full 70-80 worker actions including both moves and works. Later on access to Hydro Plants. Additionally, the shorter distance to walk for
the settler also means fast income.


All numbers are in GPT


Agro City Industry City

28 Food 24 food
11 Shields 18 Shields
29 commerce 30 commerce

Market Place Market Place

45 commerce 45 commerce

Colossus/Market

41 Commerce 42 Commerce
60 Commerce 61 Commerce

Colossus/Bank

90 Commerce 90 Commerce

Colossus/Stock Exchange

135 Commerce 135 Commerce

Republic/Colossus

54 Colossus
81 Market
120 Bank
180 Stock Exchange

Maximum Potential of Priapos with Republic, Colossus and Stock Market with maximum possible population, assume 20 pop.

48 Base
68 Colossus
102 Market
151 Bank
225 Stock Exchange

Conclusion;

Priapos is the best suited city for building Colossus, and to utilize commerce to a maximum of 225 gold. We are a scientific/Commerce Civ, so this is critical to consider.

When you only will have 5 core cities, you need them to get at least 21 tiles. We can't really afford overlap. 6 tiles of overlap won't do.

I propose we build a city W of the Sugar NW of Olympus. I don't want the Germans plopping down a city a few tiles from our capital.

I think 21 tiles is too much a mantra, I think functionality is the key here, and flexibility.
With Colossus on that site, we will gain that back manifold, free aqueduct instant, hydro plant access, defense, strong commerce, naval domination and other assets are key here. Filling that Mongolian void of less viable plains is not good enough.

Provolution's suggestion is more advantageous before sanitation, and less advantageous after sanitation. The time before sanitation is primarily where the game's outcome is decided, so that time should be more highly considered. It would be nice to explore a little more down there, but we may have a settler ready before then.

Here's a northeastern suggestion, which would get 18spt at size 12 (I'm assuming The Augean Stables is using the gold hill, but not its neighbor). Moving it one tile SE would reduce overlap at the expense of a shield (but Augean Stables would then get an extra shield).

The more I think about Provo's proposed site, the more I like it. I mean, honestly, where else is there?

I think Governor Provolution does a fine job of assessing the short-term benefits of his proposed site. One Settler plop and it's up and running, pumping out 4 gold from Day One. And it just gets better from there.

I think our immediate need far outweighs whatever ideals we have in store for our future. If do not set up a nicely functioning site right now then we will pay dearly during the early stages of our development.

If someone can show us a nearby site the boasts similar immediate benefits, then please do so. The forest between ourselves and Rome is not an option, as it will take forever to make a functioning city from all the firewood.

As your President, I heartily endorse this proposal by our governor-in-waiting. Let us please make a full assessment of all sites before dismissing the "Provolution Solution" outright.

Provolution's suggestion is advantageous before sanitation, and disadvantageous after sanitation. It would be nice to explore a little more down there, but we may have a settler ready before then.

Here's a northeastern suggestion, which would get 18spt at size 12 (I'm assuming The Augean Stables is using the gold hill, but not its neighbor). Moving it one tile SE would reduce overlap at the expense of a shield (but Augean Stables would then get an extra shield).

Tim,

Our Expatriate Governor can claim your proposed site from Rome (or whomever) at a later date. It unfortunately does no good for us right now.

As your President, I promised to bring about short-term growth that will quickly gain us parity with our rivals. Provo's proposal for our fifth city gives us the best chance of doing so.

Tim,

Our Expatriate Governor can claim your proposed site from Rome (or whomever) at a later date. It unfortunately does no good for us right now.


excellent point, there. i didn't think about it. that would be the perfect city to take from Rome. alright Provo, i'm for that city site now.

@Tim: you can bet that the gold hill will be worked by the Stables. :smug:

Well, good that people see the sensibility in focussing on gold intensive cities, since we are not going to have more units than the upkeep allow us. Gold is the issue here.

5 cities give us 20 free upkeep units in despotism, 10-20 free upkeep in monarchy, 5 free upkeep units in Republic and so on. We do not want our military forces to fall in battle, but we know that keeping a sizable military, pay maintenance and research our techs only rely on our gold inflows, not some 21 Tile Adventist Steppeland with some puny forestchop inputs in the worst Central Asian economic case, just to prop up some cultural arbitrary border. In a five city challenge, those five cities better be good AND early performers. And again, GOLD is the key here. Take upgrades of veteran forces for example. 100 gold for knights from horsemen, would take Priapos at that time only one turn to finance, how about that?

Take the 21 Turn Adventist Vision in sunburnt Shrubbistan? That area would take forever to develop, hard to hold militarily, logistical nightmare, no rivers and so on and so forth. I am not buying some old gospel on grabbing lotsa useless tiles, just because some self proclaimed article says so, or self proclaimed civ professional says so.
Many of us played civ long ago to know that with very few cities, early and much gold is key to all development.

I support Provolution in this matter. The city location is excellent: We need commerce to survive, we need it more in 5CC. Priapos should be built there.

Guess what we need even more than commerce? Land space. We need our five cities to take up as much space as possible to prevent the AI from settling there. Overlap does not help us at all.

Well then Ginger Ale, we disagree, I rather want an excellent early city and conquer the next 7 as we please, I do not want these silly 21 tile plains with some shrubbery at all.

Guess what we need even more than commerce? Land space. We need our five cities to take up as much space as possible to prevent the AI from settling there. Overlap does not help us at all.

With all due respect, Ginger Ale, I do not agree with securing land space just for the sake of land space. If Rome wants to plant a city alongside the trees while Priapos thrives, I feel we should let them. We can always pick it up at a later date if our Expatriate Governor desires.

I'm of two minds here. My first reaction when I saw this was "21 tiles." But then I looked and I realized that this was a good location. There is 6 overlap, and that I suppose I can live with. It's benefits outweigh the negatives in my mind. Now we can have 2 naval cities pumping out ships instead of one, both with their different strengths. Whereas Styx (btw- can I get one of those economic forecasts for Styx? No need for the Collosus (as Styx has to expand first to grab the cows)) will be a cowbased economy, Priapos can use the Hills. Kinda like vs. (uh... somebody give me two naval economy cities, one of which was built on flat land and one built on hills)

I have to lend my support to this idea. There really isn't anywhere else to put this city, and Provo has found a good spot to use. We might as well put it there than instead of in the wilderness.

There are 6 tiles of overlap, SaaM.

I do not want the wrong message across - both cities are good sites. I will not be unhappy with the coastal gold city, as it too is a good city.

Well then, who should poll the two proposed cities? Tim Bentleys Proposal and Provolutions Proposal ? I can set it up straight off.

This site looks good. Given we're not in a strict 5CC, the overlap won't kill us. I would like to know were the citizen of each city will be working.

The Colossus wonder is rather unlikely at this point, however. I wouldn't even consider any impact from it. It would take a great leader to build it.

-- Ravensfire

With 3-0 support from Governors and 2-0 support from the Executive Branch (so far), I feel that there is pretty strong support for your site.

Be prepared to make the same arguments if you take this matter to the people. I would hate to lose this site because of misconceptions of our immediate goals.

I will post a poll later tonight, to keep the 24 hour discussion in shape and be fair.
Seems like the site got good initial support, and it only takes 50 % to win.
And yes, even in a strict 5BB challenge, I would choose this city, as it can be used to bankroll numerous activities, I also think Collossus is the way to go here.

Ugh. It doesn't appear we have an ideal location for our fifth city. Some of the unexplored area to the south may work out, but it doesn't appear too promising.

Have we considered the feelings of the citizens of Olympus? They've worked hard to develop their city and no doubt were expecting unfettered access to their land once they increased in size. It seems a bit unfair to build another city so close that it will overlap a significant portion of Olympus' natural territory.

With that said, of the choices that appear to be available, Provo's suggested site is pretty good. Ravensfire's point that overlap isn't so much of a killer given the 5CC variant we're playing needs to be considered. And Priapos does appear to have the potential to generate lots of gold and shields when it is developed (and after we change to the Republic).

I still have questions - mainly on behalf of the citizens of Olympus - but I haven't seen an argument for a better site.

Question is, would anyone object if I understood most people wanted the nominated site for Priapos, or do someone demand to poll Tim Bentleys proposal against the nominated one? It is extra work, but would be fun to see the 21 Tile Adventists pop out.

Poll it - discussion is not unanimous. Also - do you have the numbers for the combined city worker allocation?

-- Ravensfire