Do you agree to mutual exclusivity with MIA or should we just do small potato deals with them

I voted small deals, but what I mean is to roughly share the beakers and making up for any difference in cash.

I vote "gift" but mean about the same as Cracie. Share beakers and even out if neccesary with gold, worker actions or whatever we agree on. Important thing is we agree on tech co-op.

To me it's a "all" or "not so much" type deal.

It must be exclusive or else I consider them a short term partner where anything goes.

exclusive...

I like the small deals. We need to let them know that if they are not being straight with us with stuff like contacts, we will let Bubba out of his cage and he will stomp (whomp?) them.

OK should I pm fe3333au that we have a proposal or wait for a few more votes?

I think it's pretty clear cut. We are either "all in" or we can work the occasional deal.
Thoughts?

I agree with you're last statement... either we're all-in holding hands through the AA (short meetings via IM) or just occasional trading when the mood hits (4 hours debacles like we had recently).

When should we lay out our cards?

Lay the cards soon. But I think, only if we get the sense through our diplomatic contact that they will be full, good-faith partners. Part of that would be some agreement of principal on how to handle contact with the other continent...

Absolutely Booti. That's part of any "all in" deal.

It would feel better if we could get some more votes on this before we press space, but not to long. I say friday come, we send PM.

At the minimum, I'd prefer it's before they see the dyes (3-4 turns and the Admiral's ship goes to sea (2 turns).

What's the ETA on the dye settler?

Like 15 turns.

I'd rather let them know we have a settler on the way after we agree to be "all in" and we share. If they are not "in" then there's a different pricing structure to get dyes. Think of it as a "all in" volume discount. :D

We are the Costco for our continent.

Aisle 4 we have dyes and wines. Aile 11 we have a can of Whomp Keester, industrial size - long lasting :hammer:

We'll let them do the shopping....

I already voted for "all in" this morning (or was it last night? :hmm: )

Geez, I've been practically living on this board lately and don't remember if I'm coming or going. :crazyeye:

Mutual Exclusivity ProposalThe proposed 1 + 1 = 3 treaty for MIA and K.I.S.S.

The teams could agree to:
- be allied until MIA and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game, and to act in cooperation and unison to ensure that they will become the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share all technologies until M.I.A. and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share luxuries (when possible, due to extra sources) until MIA and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share strategic resources, if needed, (when possible, due to extra sources) until M.I.A. and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- give a 10-turn notification before ending the alliance (only possible if M.I.A.and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- consult and agree with the other party in the alliance on any deals and diplomacy with the other teams, before meeting with other teams and signing agreements with said other teams.
- grant first strike on end-of-deal turn given to party undergoing end of deal (only possible if M.I.A. and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game).


----------------------------------------------------


Plans for the immediate future:
1. K.I.S.S. gives Pottery now, M.I.A. gives wheel upon completion.
2. K.I.S.S. continues to research Writing and gives it upon discovery.
3. M.I.A. start on monotheism and masonry, and give it upon discovery. We wish M.I.A. great luck creating a SGL researching these techs.
4. K.I.S.S. researches Code of Laws, immediately after writing, and gives it upon discovery.
5. M.I.A. researches Philosophy, immediately after receiving writing, and they will discover it only after Code of Laws is shared, choose Republic as a free tech if possible, and give both techs upon discovery.
6. Send a copy of this treaty to Ginger Ale and RegentMan if we are agreed.
----------------------------------------------------
Other things up for consideration.
--Mutual support against enemies.
--Number of units allowed near each others borders.
--Type and number of units allowed exploration.
--Interest free loans for accelerating builds.

@ whomp - I don't like the mutual exclusivity proposal because of the history.

1. They're not the brighest bulbs in the sockets based on our negotiations (unless they've lied, which invokes the Idiots' Revenge Scenario)

2. I'd rather a mutual exclusive with a team on another continent (see above)

3. I'm more comfortable having us research Philosophy (to be or to beer that is the question) and controlling the AA trading

Thank you all for the boats ;)

One more thought...
Power of the "take away".

While in negotiations we lead the conversation towards very small deals. Out of nowhere one team member steps in and says "This is not how I personally envisioned things". THey say "Why"?

"Well, I speak only for myself, but I saw an opportunity for mutual exclusivity but it seems you don't want that". Followed by silence....

See how they respond.

@ whomp - great idea. caveat, get the boats out first. then do your idea.

OK, let's play what if with Whomp's proposal. First let's say we get more cities on this continent than MIA. That should give us great productivity and a stronger military. That should allow us to capture a greater portion of the other continent. If we have a greater number of cities that should allow us to research faster once we are down to two. We could then choose to beat them to a space shot, or domination/conquest.

I say let's go for it.

get the boats out first. then do your idea.
Too late by then someone else will have already proposed the same to them.

:rotfl: Captain Curragh!

boats :bounce: boats :bounce:

My personal goal is to wipe out TNT first cause of their "leader"

boats :bounce: boats :bounce: Scotty...I mean Tubby can we crank out those boats any faster?

My personal goal is to wipe out TNT first cause of their "leader"
Can I play too? Can I? Can I?

this is what tubby gets for going to sleep too early...

we need bede to give us a sober monks view...

this is what tubby gets for going to sleep too early...

we need bede to give us a sober monks view...
That's funny too! Bede is a true Celt. I think you'll find he likes his :beer: as well as the next Irishman.

Bede is a true Celt. I think you'll find he likes his as well as the next Irishman.


well that's why he's asleep and we'll get his commentary tomorrow

now that i've got access, I'll try to make a picture book soon :devil:

Cool plan Whomper and the theatrical effect of someone stepping out of the fog will be huge :D. I'm in.

Cool plan Whomper and the theatrical effect of someone stepping out of the fog will be huge :D. I'm in.
Yes! What Dagh said!!! It will sound less like scheming on our part and perhaps allay any suspicions of our motives.

One more thought...
Power of the "take away".

While in negotiations we lead the conversation towards very small deals. Out of nowhere one team member steps in and says "This is not how I personally envisioned things". THey say "Why"?

"Well, I speak only for myself, but I saw an opportunity for mutual exclusivity but it seems you don't want that". Followed by silence....

See how they respond.
agreed.
since i did that the first time, maybe the'll believe next one?

If you wanna rehearse this I will be glad to play the MIA part. They may not respond as we anticipate...
Could be done in IM this evening, thursday.

I think that Whomp's quoted proposal should be sent to the MIA heads (fe3333au, ybbor, & maybe emp killyouall). If you surprise them with this via IM conversation they will not know what to do. they will have to take it back to everyone, vote, discuss, hold committees, revote, amend, lobby, take a congressional break, eat dinner, come back, discuss some more then vote and bring us a yes/no. I say give them time because they are obviously not as good as us at thinking on their feet.

RE: boats: I fiddled with the spreadsheet and can get 1st one due next turn 2nd 2 turns later then we are back on track with 4 turn settlers.... Spreadsheet will be posted in Dept. Of Turnplay

EDIT: 2nd boat is out of the picture in my mind (since we lost another pop).... If we still want the second boat, let me know and I'll work something up, (but it'll delay the next settler)

1 boat, sorry Captain Curragh, and fastest way of getting the settler plant up and running is my idiotic view.

I spoke briefly with Kentharu last night and he didn't think anything would be anything before Sunday if that. :rolleyes: They're stalling to make contacts is the Panda boy view. I think we need to put them on the spot now. It appears to me they are being run like FEMA.

Let me know if you want me to send the proposal.

RE: Curraghs I say one and back to settling.

I think our fogbusters need to come up with a direction for that boat. I have no clues when the clues were allocated.

They're stalling to make contacts is the Panda boy view. I think we need to put them on the spot now Kenth might not be the one to judge our decisions on but if you get that hunch I'll hunch with you. Key word is NOW. If they're reluctant to speak up, that's for a reason, i.e. they wanna look for back doors to sneak out on us. I do not like that behaviour. You spoke to Kenth, you do the call and I'm "all in".
Edit: Sven yells, "spit in their mothers eyes and fart in their general direction"

Send the PM to fe3333au, ybbor, Ken, & Napolean. Give them 36-48 hours to respond, no extensions. If no response then tell them that we have our answer and thank you for their business.

ALERT
Make that Emp.Napoleon. Ditto Killyouall is on team Doughnut. We are anarkissts but that would be too much confusion for Nuts to handle :lol:

Ok as far as timeline I would suggest they respond in some fashion either to the affirmative or with a counterproposal before their turn. However, they must decide before our turn (so we can give them pottery of course ;) ) or we will take that as a negative on our proposal. Ball is then in their court.

yes do it now

On it. I am sending to fe3333au(foreign minister), emp. napoleon, kentharu (keep him in the loop) and General_W (president)

Awesome Sauce!!

Sent to fe3333au, General_W and Kentharu (I didn't want to go back and find Emp. Napoleon's pm...prolly a underscore in their somewhere)

Esteemed citizens of M.I.A.

We have developed a proposal for the future we see with your great people, as well, I'm sure you have developed one for us.

At the minimum, we would like to have either a response to the affirmative or your counterproposal before your next turn. We expect a "yay" or "nay" before our turn so we can send you pottery before your following turn.

The proposed 1 + 1 = 3 treaty for MIA and K.I.S.S.

The teams could agree to:
- be allied until MIA and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game, and to act in cooperation and unison to ensure that they will become the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share all technologies until M.I.A. and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share luxuries (when possible, due to extra sources) until MIA and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share strategic resources, if needed, (when possible, due to extra sources) until M.I.A. and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- give a 10-turn notification before ending the alliance (only possible if M.I.A.and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- consult and agree with the other party in the alliance on any deals and diplomacy with the other teams, before meeting with other teams and signing agreements with said other teams.
- grant first strike on end-of-deal turn given to party undergoing end of deal (only possible if M.I.A. and K.I.S.S are the only two remaining teams in the game).


----------------------------------------------------


Plans for the immediate future:
1. K.I.S.S. gives Pottery now, M.I.A. gives wheel upon completion.
2. K.I.S.S. continues to research Writing and gives it upon discovery.
3. M.I.A. start on monotheism and masonry, and give it upon discovery. We wish M.I.A. great luck creating a SGL researching these techs.
4. K.I.S.S. researches Code of Laws, immediately after writing, and gives it upon discovery.
5. M.I.A. researches Philosophy, immediately after receiving writing, and they will discover it only after Code of Laws is shared, choose Republic as a free tech if possible, and give both techs upon discovery.
6. Send a copy of this treaty to Ginger Ale and RegentMan if we are agreed.
----------------------------------------------------
Other things up for discussion.
--Mutual support against potential enemies.
--Number of units allowed near each others borders.
--Type and number of units allowed exploration.
--Intelligence sharing.


Yours in bond.

Major Idiot Whomp

It has been received as General_W is pm'ing right now.

I saw an arrogant letter in our gmail box from MIA....It seems to me that they accept no responsiblity for sending an incompetent diplomat to the table.

Greetings from Team MIA

Dear Daghdha representative of the fine KISS.

We too are celebrating the inaugural meetings of our two peoples.

In fact it gladdens my heart on receiving your message ... I was just that moment penning a letter to your leader Whomp ...

It was to state that I was extremely concerned that the young hothead element, whom I assume crashed the meeting ... almost, through their arrogance and over zealous pride ... ended our talks prematurely with their rude interruptions and aggressive posturings ...

It was only in the name of peace and the mutual recognition of wisdom between my diplomatic party and your initial three representatives that my ambassadorial team did not end proceedings and walk away ... your young thugs rudely insulted my diplomats, me personally and the honour of team MIA ... I am glad that KISS has chastised them ...

I agree that while meetings should be open to observers on both sides ... At the same time I strongly suggest that the speaking stick is handled by the very few whose words carry wisdom and weight ... and that perhaps communiqués be sent prior to meetings which set the agenda of discussions ...

But enough of this ... as mentioned above team MIA is in full celebration ... Our President has sent you the gift of Alphabet and Iron Workings ... and we have received your package of knowledge and the first payment.

We feel secure that kindred green are honest and speak true ... we must speak soon ... I have received and archived the agreement ... the first of many which will share KISS and MIA stamps

Peace and Prosperity to both our peoples


Feaurius III
Foreign Minister MIA

I was just talking to Daggie and I told him that I would rather side with TNT than these yahoos now

Too bad Whomp already sent that message.....

I resent the fact they sent that letter after I specifically apoligized to Kentharu for bringing in the whole gang. Again, I will take the hit for this but the letter will be discussed with them in a more Bedesque fashion. It will be handled. Don't let your emotions get the best of you here.

The bottom line is the ball is in their court. They're either with us or against us. Simple.

I agree that while meetings should be open to observers on both sides ... At the same time I strongly suggest that the speaking stick is handled by the very few whose words carry wisdom and weight ...
Whomp says:
and what are the repurcussions if we get beat to the sling?
Kentharu says:
i would say sorry

Wisdom and weight, gents, wisdom and weight. Agree w Whomp that we should try to keep cool about this. "Bedeesque" :D

Now that I think of it can someone send the "official" message by email without the spoilers tags, of course. I don't have access.

I can. Are you talking about your message in the spoiler above in post #44?

Yes sir. They seem to like "official" notifications. :rolleyes:

OK done. I put in the subject..."URGENT - Official request from KISS" and basically copied post 44 over to it.

Alright ladies and gents:

First, I think FeIII's post was imprudent. Especially, as Whomp pointed out, he has apologized. Bad form, or as they used to say on Fat Albert "NC. No Class."

But I have to confess, after going through the negotiations with a few day distance and a good meal in my belly - I think we came off worse than they did. Not in substance, but definately in tone.

I know Kenthu wasn't the brightest bulb on the string, but we did come at them pretty fast and furious for a bit.

I say we take our lumps on this, and assuming they are willing, go for the full-metal alliance (along the outline Whomp submitted).

In the meantime we should encourage the Admiral to help Provo strip some gears. Our injudiciousness will soon be forgotten.

injudiciousness Cool word! Almost unutterable, and you're right all in all. fe3333's comments were a bit too much but hopefully that is because he preferes a good tone before sharp wheelin' and dealin'.

fe3333's comments were a bit too much but hopefully that is because he preferes a good tone before sharp wheelin' and dealin'.
I think he also feels the need to stay in the good graces of his own teammates. If he has any negative thoughts about kentheru, he's either keeping them to himself or within their private forum. I know that if I ever had any reservations about a fellow team member's words or actions, however strongly felt, the other teams would never ever hear a single word about it from me. He may feel exactly the same about expressing himself to us.

Cool word! Almost unutterable...

Thanks Dagh. I like big words, they make me feel smart. And when a big word isn't available, I make them up, i.e.

SANTIONS!!! :aargh: SANTIONS!!! [pissed]

:D