These are makshift single era cities i put together for the Aztec scenario. I'm not completely satisfied with them but Red Alert said he'd have a go at making another set.
Note; If you look carefully at the metro you can see the dried blood on the steps! ;)

I should have posted in completed graphix modapacks. Sorry!! Could a moderator please move this at his/her conveniance.

Sorry the ones I made for you didn't do the job... :( I should have consulated you more one them though. Its alright.

Wow - very good cities so far :thumbsup:

I like these a lot. If you are not entirely happy with them, I could help out. I noticed some of the buildings seem a bit wobbly looking, and also may be too large - both things I could remedy, with your permission.

The blood on the stairways and the small houses are nice touches, too.

Please red, do! I was designing them with a mind to giving you an idea of what I wanted. I have a work sheet of all the individual buildings if that might help.
@ Sword. I actually used your cities as a sarting point and I may still use them in some form for the mixtec/tzapotec civs.

P.S Large credit also to Skam's aztec set.

It would be great if you could upload that worksheet. I'm glad I can help.

Though they look very good, I think that they are a bit too light (white) in colour. How about making them a bit darker, and adding some contrast (stronger shadows)?

I'm already using your NA plains cities for the mod so this would be a great addition too. I haven't got that work sheet here with me so it'll have to be tomorrow.
I have quite a lot of graphix done for Aztec now and you are welcome to use anything that might be useful for the Mesoamerican mod. They include lots of tech icons and buildings/wonders like totonac fliers, great pyramid, etc. Anyway, shout if there's anything you need.

@ aaglo. I think you're right. I do want them bright but the contrast seems off and I'm not much of a city maker. I was trying to go for an effect something like Red's Carthage series which I think are excellent.
@ Red. I couldn't get that worksheet - my cd burner is on the blink! If you can wait 'til Monday maybe??

That's no problem. Whatever is good for you ;)

And thank you very much, you have made a lot of things that I will find quite useful in Born of Fire.

What about me?

Hi Red! I'll upload that sheet now. I really appreciate you doing this for me. I know the result will be great. As I've said already - If there's anything I can do for you, just shout.

This probably isn't final, as I'm still experimenting, but how does this look?

Monumental!

Also i am very pleased that the scale of the buildings is compatible with those in my cities too... I will DEFINATELY be using this :D

Wow... I take it I'm on the right track ;) Thanks!

I'm not sure if you recognize them, varwnos, but a lot of the buildings there are made from yours :goodjob:

They look strange, too blocky. Not organic enough if you know what I mean.

Wow... I take it I'm on the right track ;) Thanks!

I'm not sure if you recognize them, varwnos, but a lot of the buildings there are made from yours :goodjob:

i do not recognise anything, but this is common with heavy editing ;) I recognise the pattern in the diagonal external line though (two colours, two pixel-parts, first pixel being one and the second the other) :)

i used your absolutely wonderfull city shape (and some of the original building placement-size too, + wall filling) so as to make this byzantine size #1. How much can you recognise? ;)


@ Sword of Geddon: we can all have our city making styles :) Besides we arent paid to do this, so there is no reason to be so critical about it either ;)

Sword_of_Geddon - True enough. As far as I know, though, Aztec architecture doesn't allow for much of anything besides 'blocky' shapes. To make matters worse, they did lay out their cities in grid patterns. You are right though, and I am not entirely happy with how it looks either, though I'm not sure what I should do about it. Anything you can think of to better them would help. Perhaps a few trees could at least bring in an organic touch?

varwnos - Well, ok, you've got me. I cannot say I recognize that at all :lol:
Your work is too good for me to see any trace of my own.

I disagree. My work has its own problems. But it is ussual for the creator to be more conscious of the problems of his own creations, and view those of others as finished things, since to him they are just that, and so he will tend to not focus on anything negative about them, at least not to the degree he is inclined to on his own :)

edit: hm, i think that i entirely missunderstood what you meant! :lol:
yes, it is pretty well covered up ;)

They're beautiful, red. My only request is that you use the big pyramid in the metropolis. I do agree that they look a little too square. One solution might be to put some irregular small buildings around a central square. (see the attatchment)
You only really need that arrangement for the size 2 and 3. The size 1 could just be a small collection of buildings like the one I did.
Are you doing a single era or two? I need a first era consisting of rough less-civilised cities but I'l do that myself if need be.

You haven't dissapointed me, Red. They're pretty much the quality I was expecting to see in your work. :goodjob:

the one preview posted by redalert looks good, but a bit blocky (like there's no anti-aliasing). You could try to do this for better looks:
- increase colour depth to 16/32 bit
- increase the size
- smoothen
- decrease to original size
- apply the city palette
that could make it look smoother. (or bad :D )

Sword_of_Geddon - True enough. As far as I know, though, Aztec architecture doesn't allow for much of anything besides 'blocky' shapes. To make matters worse, they did lay out their cities in grid patterns. You are right though, and I am not entirely happy with how it looks either, though I'm not sure what I should do about it. Anything you can think of to better them would help. Perhaps a few trees could at least bring in an organic touch?

varwnos - Well, ok, you've got me. I cannot say I recognize that at all :lol:
Your work is too good for me to see any trace of my own.

Well, I'd maybe try to work with existing Civ buildings rather than Vawnos' entirely at least. Try to mix the two. Vawnos' work isn't necessarily bad, it just looks 8-bit for some reason, not like Civ3 cities. Thats the same problem I have with several other city creators.

Looks good, but some of the roofs and walls need more texturing.

Whew - it's a good thing that was only a 'practice' version ;)

From the sounds of things, I think it would be easier for me to start afresh than to edit those buildings (because I had been extensively editing them to no avail even before I posted)

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, and please keep them coming. Hopefully this many people with opinions on the matter will keep me in check, and the finished product will be one that makes everyone happy.

Does this look any better?

That's very nice work. :goodjob: Looks much, much better than the first preview. :)

How do you like the art of pixel-by-pixel? ;)

I agree, it is great ;)

That's exactly the colour and texture they should be. The sides of the Great Pyramid were flatter and overall it should be more 'blocky' looking. Sorry to be a pain but these WILL be the best mesoamerican set ever done. I just want them to be perfect. Do you need any images of Tenochtitlan? I have a ton of them.

Thanks guys :)

How do you like the art of pixel-by-pixel? ;)


You noticed! I've been trying to learn from your and varwnos's styles. I have a rather sharp eye, so I usually notice when one pixel is out of place or does not look quite right. This has always bothered me, but I find that the art of pixel-by-pixel solves this quite nicely.

Traianus - I can do that. Although I probably won't be able to make this look exactly like Tenochtitlan, I can make it look Tenochtitlan-ish, in a Tenochtitlan style, as accurately as I possible. [I]If[I] that's o.k. I may need a little room for creativity ;)
I did save copies of the pictures you provided to varwnos a while back, but any more pictures are welcome as well. Oh, and I forgot to say so, but assuming this era goes well I can do the first era too.

You're a star! All I can say is I would honestly not have anyone else in place other than you on this project. No disrespect to others such as Varwnos and Skam who know I rate them very highly but You're the man for this job.
My only stipulation for the metropolis is that it have something that looks like the great pyramid. That's it.
I'll upload more pics tmrw.

redalert, you can use some of my spanish colonial stuff for future eras if you wish.

Possibly the byzantine series i am making (almost finished now) could be used as a spanish one too, if the style is close enough :) Along with the medieval series it can complete a two-era set.

I wish that we could somehow agree on some graphical conventions: like having a commonly used shadow, or a common shape for size #1 (not for all sizes since that would limit creativity too much). Partly ofcourse this is just me, but in Civ2 the golden age of city creation was triggered when some people agreed to make cities in the style that Nemo (civ2 modder) first started making them.

building's shadows are personally what irritates me the most! :crazyeye:

Traianus - I'm glad to be of service :)

Ekmek & varwnos - Thank you both! I'll keep those in mind.


So, is this an improvement, or a step back? Or neither?

That's looking very good to me.

I think this will have to replace the standard ancient American city gfx in The Classic Maya.

Wow redalert, that is really looking great!
For some reason i thought of the Larry Laffer series when i saw it though :lol:

wonderfull city, you are clearly taking civ3 city making to an entire new era :)

That's wondrous! I'm amazed. We finally have a mesoamerican city set that represents what the cities actually looked like.

very convincing :woohoo:

First of all, this looks excellent. :goodjob:

Yet I have a couple of remarks, that are however not supposed to be too critical.

1) The small buildings at the right corner seem to have darker shadows than the other buildings. You should adjust the contrasts.

2) Working pixel by pixel has advantages and disadvantages. The biggest advantage is of course that your creativity is basically unlimited. But on the other hand it makes the graphics look more pixelated, or 8-bit as SOG would say. I'm not quite sure if varwnos meant the same when he said that he was reminded of the Larry Laffer series. Your former cities, like Firaxis' cities used to look smoother. That doesn't mean that this city wasn't good, just like varwnos' cities are also great despite of looking '8-bit'.

I would respectfully dissagree. I think you've captured the best of both worlds with this second preview. I await the remainder eagerly.
Can I ask, when you all refer to 'pixel by pixel' work do you mean that the entire image is assembled a pixel at a time? You can always tell when someone uses that method but it seems an enormous amount of work... or is there something I'm missing?

First of all, this looks excellent. :goodjob:

Yet I have a couple of remarks, that are however not supposed to be too critical.

Criticisms are always welcome. Especially from skilled city creators like yourself :)

1) The small buildings at the right corner seem to have darker shadows than the other buildings. You should adjust the contrasts.

You're right. I'll fix that.

2) Working pixel by pixel has advantages and disadvantages. The biggest advantage is of course that your creativity is basically unlimited. But on the other hand it makes the graphics look more pixelated, or 8-bit as SOG would say. I'm not quite sure if varwnos meant the same when he said that he was reminded of the Larry Laffer series. Your former cities, like Firaxis' cities used to look smoother. That doesn't mean that this city wasn't good, just like varwnos' cities are also great despite of looking '8-bit'.

Well said. It has been unfortunately difficult to find a happy medium thus far, though. Perhaps with a bit more practice I can remedy the 8-bit feeling. There's a couple things I'm going to try, and I'll post the results later.

I would respectfully dissagree. I think you've captured the best of both worlds with this second preview. I await the remainder eagerly.
Can I ask, when you all refer to 'pixel by pixel' work do you mean that the entire image is assembled a pixel at a time? You can always tell when someone uses that method but it seems an enormous amount of work... or is there something I'm missing?

Yes, one pixel at a time, and it does take quite a while. A few hours for each building, actually, just to make sure it looks right.


To everyone: Thank you all for your generous comments and suggestions. :goodjob:

As there has been quite much discussion on 'pixel by pixel' work on this thread, I'll throw in my two cents worth. When I create buildings for my cities, I usually start with painting the basic form of my building pixel by pixel. You can see the first design step of the building in my avatar at the bottom of this post. Then I fill the surface areas using textures, shadowing and several painting brushs.

That's an interesting way of doing things. I'll have to try it.

I just wanted to say I'm still working on these, in case anybody was wondering. :)

After testing what I have done in game, I fixed some transparent pixels, and softened up the rim of the city so that it fits in better with the background.

I don't know what you've done to change your technique Red, but I think your old technique was perfect. The cities were smooth and fit right in with the old graphics. Your newest work seems blocky and 16-bit like, like some things I've seen from Civ2. If you can try to smooth things out alittle. I think rounding out the edges alittle may do the job.

I understand what you mean, and I agree. Not that I'm not happy with my work, but you're right, it does look different. Unfortunately, doing things like I usually do just didn't seem to work this time. This new technique seems to be the only one I can make work with these cities.

This in no way means I'm changing my style, though. Usually the only pixel by pixel work I do is to enhance or add detail to a building, and I plan to stick to that in future cities, as it just seems to work best for me.

I won't give up trying to make things work, though. If I can improve in any way, rest assured I will.

Maybe just smoothing things out alittle would work, like rounding the edges on some of the buildings just alittle.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try it out.

Great design! :goodjob: I was precisely looking for something like that. It will be great if the Metropolis could look like Tenochtitlan, with the canals and everything.. Here is a preview from a XVIth century painting and a contemporary version. Hope it could be useful..

That's a good idea. I'll see what I can do. Thank you, beboy.

That first one is a Diego Rivera mural, I think. It must have been such a beautiful city! Keep pluggin away at it, Red. It looks like this particular city set is generating good interest and that can't be bad!