Post short forms of the decisions taken in each department here

For idiots like me, and I know there are a few around, how about we keep a "shortcut through all the threads" thread so that when people argue and come to a conclusion in one of the departments, they can just drop a line here, making our forum a bit more idiot-proof, every day. Stuff like "Engage barbs SE" "Scout all the way W" "Dotmap here *link*", etc.

I'm sure everyone will be glad to keep it alive and kicking with good remarks ... *cough* or well, it will stay alive with or without contents.

Bottom line is no one would have the excuse of not knowing anything, it would be here.

So with the blessings of Whomp, in order for this more and more unruly messto be more and more idiot-friendly :lol:, here's the thread.

@Beorn
Seems like you have your own department Gov. You like it beautified?

I guess it would help to have a summary of what's happened all in one place, especially for anyone who's joined the team recently. I know it took me quite awhile to catch up when I got here, and I joined on August 10. HOWEVER, I am not volunteering to do the summary...sounds too much like WORK. :D

City planning and Dotmapping (16/12, T75) summary report:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3438057&postcount=246

War preparations have started. We will restart pumping settlers from at least one location amidst Dunder, Simpleton and Igno. The rest of the empire will build GS's for the most part. The dotmap is posted and it is awaiting comments, but so far has been found satisfactory.

The order of settling will be anarchic, but closer first, river and BG too, that kind of thing.

The road to dyes, incense and spices has just about reached its first destination, others to come quickly. Worker production has come to a satisfactory level and will be slowed down.

Several details are contingent on the war prepping status, stay tuned with Bugs and the gang.

Diplomatic and Research-path status (25/09, T35) [16/12 T75 check] summary report:


*edited for brevity*

2. MIA and KISS land units stay outside of each other's actual
borders, during the peace.

3. MIA and KISS sea units don't stay on the same tile in each
other's territory for 2 consecutive turns, during the peace.

4. MIA and KISS will offer each other "Most Favoured Nation
status". Most Favoured Nation simply means that we will offer what we
learn at the monopoly beaker cost less the Emperor trade rate discount
if, and only if, MIA will reciprocate. Other nations will pay monopoly
beaker cost. No shared research, no sweet heart deals, just cold
number crunching.

We agree ... BUT For ... in the understanding that Emperor
Discount Rate is 150 - that is, the teams will trade each other
techs for up to 50% more or less than their fair value.

4a. Deals with other nations which go beyond monopoly beaker cost
for trade, must be agreed to by the other party ... ... MIA feel
that this addition will make it possible for both teams to further
benefit from our respective negotiation and bartering skills.

5. KISS will get Writing while MIA gets Masonry and Mysticism. As
soon as KISS gets Writing, the team with the best research capability
starts on Code of Laws, while the other team starts on Philosophy.
Code of Laws will be discovered first and given to the other party
before Philosophy is discovered, so that Republic comes as a free
tech.

6. Techs are shared between both teams when Writing and Republic
are discovered. We believe this balances out under "Most Favoured
Nation" status.

7. MIA and KISS are at peace. Since both of us can't really know
what new developments will be in the future, our peace deal is
basically unlimited, and can only be terminated at least ten turns
beforehand. This shall not be done, before at least 10 turns have
passed after the discovery of republic.

8. On first contact with an unknown team, either KISS or MIA will
share, automatically when their game save is sent, this fact with
their continental neighbour in written form.

-- Bold added by myself on several instances

In addition, we are to form a diplomat group of a few individuals and give them exclusivity over the official written relationships. Others may very well join the debates in our private forums, but only them should engage in the official relationships.

This is meant to keep a unified, consistent, friendly diplomatic front with all other nations. A few will be chosen so that there is always at least one available, in opposition to, say, Provo taking vBraun spot and mentionning it is not his job to talk (note from the redaction: it really shouldn't be indeed).

This was done and well done; chek out individual Diplo threads for the whole details as they unfold - there's a lot there, too much for my sorry brain.

Military Headquarters (16/12, T75) summary report:

All-goes thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=124956)

MIA prepping thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=147152)

Geeks and Numbers (16/12, T75) summary report:

- Despite our turning off the settler valves for now 10-15 turns, we're cruising on high in score, getting a 6-7 differential. MI has that same kind of growth, but they have been running a 4-turner lately.

- We are strong vs MIA, weak vs Dnuts and TNT. Both oversea nations look primitive and warmongering. We have leverage on our continent, which is sufficient for us, for now and for a while.

- A lot of exploration is being done on the subject of how can we possibly run over MIA, and wether or not we wish to, ATM. Some number crunching needed from time to time over @ Bugs'

Ok so I've finally gone around all 5 "major" divisions. Next time around, It will be our beloved secretaries that will check-in for updates as we see the need for them:

- Idiot-in-Chief: Whomp
- Diplomats: Daghda, Bede, Kickbooti
- Hut Idiot: Beorn
- Counting Idiot: Tubby Rower
- General Idiot: SirBugsy
- Know-it-all Idiot: Pentium

Perhaps a more thorough analysis of current micro/worker moves should be in order in either the geeks or the city planning summaries; Tubs and I will have to see to it or not as it goes.

Thanks, Beorn! :goodjob: This really made it easier for me to catch up!

Diplo update: We (Whomp, AK and me) had a AIM-chat w fe3333 + crew from MIA. They think good of our relation but no good of Nutters way of doing diplomacy. Nuts are very cocky and demanded 3 techs for writing (Wheel, WC and CB). Whomper layed out how they should deal w them to got writing in order for us 3 to do the sling. That was the main part of our discussion. We are asked to write up a proposal regarding this (Whompie?).
The GH wasn't mentioned.
fe3333 suggested us being a "gooder cop" than Nuts which I thought was an interesting phrasing.
We also told them about Provo cheering up a bit and admitting the alledged jump was in fact a mistake (and of course that this might be lie, but likely not).

@B
Will you copy-->paste this in 1:st post so I can delete this one? Would you rather have these reports by PM? Maybe post #5 should be just headings, e.g. "IM with MIA 28/9", and a spoiler for each event?

City Planning update (20/10 T49) [checkup 16/12 T75]

Official plans for our food units of the near future:

1. What to settle ?
We'll settle
-blue dot
-spices
-blue-ish purple
-furs
-yellow.
If anything in the game tells otherwise and/or we find an odd settler to come appropriately under our hands, we could extend this period to include the pink dot. It will be our next city anyways after that. Black is not on schedule, red will come later for the fishies.

2. What then ?
Barracks and workers for a while thereafter. We'll really push our core up so it can sustain whatever size our empire will get. At over 1.5 worker/turn, 10 turns = 15 workers straight up and then we go settler/settler/worker back again.


Done and done; now onto: 3. Wreak Idiotic Havoc
GS, Colossus, Pyramids? Well, there's a pair of threads for that. At any rate, we'll have a very strong core that'll push a lot of GS forward.

Dotmap in the following City&dot post.

The Hut Secretary says ROOOAAARRR

http://archimede.mat.ulaval.ca/~fbolduc/B/SecHuts1.jpg

Regarding the rule changes.
We will vote no to 2.4 and no to 4.3

A summary of what we think happened to TNT We know that something happened to the TNT capital. There was a turn transition (34->35) that the TNT capital (Dancing Banana) went from pop 1 to pop 4. a couple of turns later the 4 pop TNT capital was one behind in the rankings to a 2 pop MIA capital (Athens).

If the culture was equivalent then the TNT capital would have been ahead of Athens in the rankings. But since Athens was ahead of the Dancing Banana then some sort of culture loss happened in TNT.

Two explanations could have caused this.....anarchy or loss (abandonment, or hostile takeover) of the original city and then the palace jumped to another city. The former case I hope for their sake didn't happen. The latter case, would have caused the palace to reset to 0 culture in the new city. And it is now only earning 1 culture per turn instead of 4 (2k years = 4x original culture). Once TNT is met, the culture graph will confirm this theory. We still don't know exactly what happened, but Provo has indicated to Daghie that it was a mistake.

Diplo Update fe3333au has been assigned as exclusive KISS ambassador. Ken and Emp.Napoleon will take on the Nutters

From Tubby:here is a brief summary.....

Diplo We know MIA and are very friendly We know TNT and are indifferent and haven't heard from them since our note We've just reveiced notice that D'nut has met a warrior (presumably Ave. Joe) TNT and D'nut by all evidence are at war

Cities
As of the latest save that we sent we have 5 cities the city on the dyes has been founded we have a few more core cities to be settled then we'll be going for specific targets (ig: spices, furs, hephalumps) Simpleton -> settlers; Dunderhead -> settler/worker combo; Ignoramus -> workers; Jesterton -> military/navy

Military
Mainly scouting right now Peapants -> down near MIA Ave. Joe -> on the west coast Tommy Boy -> on our southwestern borders Hairy -> on our eastern borders Igor -> holding the fort in dye city (effing Whomping Rower) Grunt -> protecting the granary build in Dunderhead

We will use this as the main diplo thread that will consolidate, summarize and discuss our combined diplo efforts.

Main diplo thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3156818#post3156818)

These are team specific threads.

MIA Diplo thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=131002&page=250)

TNT Diplo Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=131003&page=250)

D'nut Diplo Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=131004&page=250)

We have agreed and are currently executing a deal with D'nut

Philo & CoL for WC, IW, CB, & Myst

Here's the discussion of the plan with MIA.

Discussion for rough draft for KISSMIA master plan (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=124833&page=7)

A Big decision on the next settler...Next city spot (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=125996&page=10)

I'm down with Whomp and Tubby. I'm more or a war monger learning from Charis style. This is my first PBM but I expect extortion later on with techs and perhaps cities.

Updated, City planning thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3120688&postcount=11)

Daghie was nice enough to help everyone on how to play a save. Thanks Dagh. :thumbsup:

PBEM tutorial (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3207642&postcount=1)

Look's like there is a lot going on in our relations with the other team. Could someone post a small update so I can catch up a bit.

Today

MIA (Greeks) --They are our solid partners for now. They are on our continent and are researching map making and lit while we're running at republic on min. All techs are being exchanged between us at this point.

TNT (Persians) --The villains. We've made two attempts with no return calls. They started a war with Doughnuts on turn 39 and will be there will likely be first blood by turn 58-60 range. TNT is ancient from a tech standpoint. I think they are 7ish techs behind and must be cash rushing units. They are talking to MIA and MIA is considering a trade for maths with TNT in exchange for CB, WC and wheel. This may or may not be a good deal but it at least gets another tech done in the AA we can get.

Doughnuts (Iroquois)-- They've been building cash for the upcoming onslaught. They just finished HBR and will be doing a 6-8 MW upgrade with some swords staying at home. They've located 4 immortals within 4 turns of their cities. We've had no trouble talking with Doughnut but according to MIA, Doughnut has been rude to them. The best tech deal hinges on MIA dealing with Doughnut rather than us. The preference would be to not trade republic to Doughnut. We'd prefer MIA trades map making and lit for some of Doughnuts research. We would get that research but things have not gone well between the two teams as there is bad blood on the negotiating front.

So to sum it up.
The Future
TNT is likely our first attack with boats. Doughnut expects a long drawn out war with them so they should be gassed. Timing of a conflict with MIA is up for grabs. They're easily 20 tiles away by land. MIA may want to hit Doughnut while we hit TNT. This part of the strategy has not been well developed yet.

I would just watch out for MIA. Any PM's should NEVER mention we are considering a TNT attack. That would open up a possible invasion from them while we are away.

I would just watch out for MIA. Any PM's should NEVER mention we are considering a TNT attack. That would open up a possible invasion from them while we are away.
The overseas mission will be MIA and us together. I have also talked with fe and EmpN about an insurance system where we have observers watching each others loading of galleys. They were very reluctant on this point which surprised me a bit. They said they had shown their peaceful intentions by not walking into our undefended core cities with that warrior and therefore should be trusted. I proposed we might land mixed forces GS's/Hoppies and thus sail together. That suggestion was better recived and should take care of the uncertainty. In any case I garee w Slinger on this one. We should never drain our homeland on troops if we're not 100% sure MIA does the same.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/finalsig.gif

I wouldn't drain our homeland regardless of what MIA does.

Also, in a chat with fe & Whomp last night I snuffed out the concept of a line on our continent. fe was under the impression that there was only one spice and one dye. That boy needs to open the save every now and then. That kind of tells us what kind of communication that they have.

They convo ended with fe saying that we can settle as much of the land as we can. (he might have been talking about the other continent but I wasn't)

That kind of tells us what kind of communication that they have.
I wonder if they post screenies in their forum. Most of our members come from an SG background where shots are posted for each other and for the lurkers. Maybe they don't think to do that and, since their individual elected positions may not require seeing the activity, they just don't know what's going on. Very odd. :mischief:

Still, you'd think posting screenshots would just be common sense.

I wouldn't drain our homeland regardless of what MIA does.
I agree 100%.

Ok, so we now have 22 or 23 workers. It would be time, in a turn or 2, to re-open the settler pumps and to start building GS's on a larger scale. IIRC we had talked about roughly 25 workers, then go back to settlers and military, perhaps with a wonder here or there. Regardless of diplomatic tractations, it sounds like a plan to me.

For having played the save, IMIO we're ready to shift; just let the current worker builds finish up and open the settler valves. I'll try and draw a dotmap and see how discussions go from there.

BEF, Workers in Dunderhead does sound pointless unless we can add them into a city. But the happyness issue is a concern.

So my suggestion is to start a barracks or just get some regular GS out of there

No spamming in this thread please. This is for serious military planning. There's another thread available for general military discussions. This one is very specific.

Sir Bugsy's Top Secret War room (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=147152)

War Department request - two horsemen. These can come out of a barracks-less city. These two units will be used for scouts.

Request all cities with a barracks produce GS.

Request roads through the jungle continue southward.

Request all GS be sent south immediately. Preposition rally points will be provided ASAP.

City planning (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3110970&postcount=4) updated (16/12, T75), as well as minor checkups on the majority of my posts on page one.

Please move all available military units to EWR.

Please move all naval units to the MIA coast for intel gathering.

Similar pm was sent to the admins for clarification.

Here's what I have forwarded to the admins for clarification. #6 is the big issue here. For instance, if poly is not included all with the other techs then it can be construed as an act of war and sabre rattling can commence
IM(and Tubby's)O. I have also requested clarification on #7 as Tubby has suggested. As any good SGer would play it if we are out of line then we should abide by all agreements in an honorable fashion.
Here's the transcript from the pic's that are the actual agreement. I copied them word-for-word. IMO, if they break #6 by not giving us everything then they break the treaty. No admins needed.

But what we do need clarification on is the bit about what #7 means. It's in writing and intent is not an issue. We need an interpretation of the actual wording by an independent party.

1. VOID

2. MIA and KISS land units stay outside of each other's actual borders, during peace.

3. MIA and KISS sea units don't stay on the same tile in each other's territory for 2 consecutive turns, during the peace

4. MIA and KISS will offer each other "Most Favoured Nation status". Most Favoured Nation simply means that we will offer what we learn at the monoploy beaker cost less the Emperor trade rate discount of 20% if, and only if, MIA will reciprocate. Other nations will pay monopoly beaker cost. No shared research, no sweet heart deals, just cold number crunching.

4a. Deals with other nations which go beyond simple technology trade at the monopoly beaker cost for, must be agreed to by the other party

5. KISS will get Writing while MIA gets Masonry and Mysticism. As soon as KISS gets Writing, the team with the best research capability starts on Code of Laws, while the other team starts on Philosophy. Code of Laws will be discovered first and given to the other party before Philosophy is discovered, so that Republic comes as a free tech.

6. Techs are shared between both teams when Writing and Republic are discovered. We believe this balances out under "Most Favoured Nation" status.

7. MIA and KISS are at peace. Since both of us can't really know what new developments will be in the future, our peace deal is basically unlimited, and can only be terminated at least ten turns beforehand. This shall not be done, before at least 10 turns have passed after the discovery of Republic.

8. On first contact with an unknown team, either KISS or MIA will share, automatically when their game save is sent, this fact with their continental neighbor in written form.


And the admins responses.... (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3478493&postcount=187)

There you have it. :D

The current state of affairs regarding our relation with MIA:
We will have republic in 2 turns and on the same turn we get it, MIA should send all (or half) of their techs. We then send rep. and next turn we recieve the remaining techs. We expect them to refuse sending Poly. That was made clear by fe a couple of turns ago. We should not ask them for Poly, but silently consider their refusal to send it as a hostile breaking of our agreement and we have admins to back us up that it actually is. The point in all this is to get us out of the peace treaty with the 10-turn notice and therefore be able to attack MIA by surprise.
When in contact with MIA we pretend Fat, Dumb and Happy and a bit lazy since we want no new agreement to be worked out.
We are a bit short of troops but strong vs. MIA and a majority of military experts advocate attacking soon. It looks like we will switch to rep (1 turn revolt), send all available units to EWR, await MIA to revolt and have a few turns of anarchy and then hit with what we've got.
Until we actually attack we should keep very quiet about our plans and not inform Nuts/TNT about anything of it. When the war has started we can (maybe) start looking overseas for a new allied.

I thought it was important to summarize some of the recent events for the team. I've included the pictures I felt were pertitent as of turn 118.

Turn 118 reported by Scout
Turn 118...another empty city spotted (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3896671&postcount=39)
Robi D's intel report on TNT
Robi pm to Tubby (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3897565&postcount=266)
MIA's view of the situtation
Peter Grimes' pm to Scout (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3896696&postcount=523)
Tubby's pictures of TNT pre turn 118
A view from above turn 117 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3893171&postcount=204)
My pictures of TNT from turn 105
A view from above turn 105. Interesting comparision to Tubby's turn117 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3894164&postcount=207)

Bugsy's building the MIA front picture.
Development considerations for MIA front by turn 156 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3893171&postcount=204)

Very nice job Whomper. Good for both newcomers and lazy veterans :goodjob:

Thanks Whomp! (Spamming to subscribe...)

OK, so here is one decision we've made. Whomp asked me if I wanted to be POTKISS for a while, just to induce some confusion and have MIA believe that we're in trouble. Me as POTKISS, yes, that would spell trouble indeed :crazyeye:. Anyway, biz will commence as usual and this is just a move to (possibly) fool MIA. Scout was present at the making of this decision so it is deemed legal by Celtic Law.

Do we have a great system or what?

Yeah, we have a great system, that's one of the rules. Like, rule #8 of our code of laws is "This is Great" - so it's just that great.

Yeah, we have a great system, that's one of the rules. Like, rule #8 of our code of laws is "This is Great" - so it's just that great.
Code of laws? I must read this. It's gotta be a scream.

POTKISS Daghie boy I recommend that Beorn's new law go into effect. Can I get another "yay" for adding rule #8 of our code of laws "This is Great" - so it's just that great.

Anarchy Laws (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=129839)

I would also like to suggest another one...there's plenty of laws discussing idiocy but none regarding grumpiness. I would suggest an additional law....:hmm:....how about law number.....um...how about...13?
Grumpiness means whacking somebody when no one is looking. True grumpiness is not an act, it is a habit. Live life grumpy and you're one step closer to Meleet.

I'll add a hearty 'Amen' to both of Whomp's proposals.

I would like to add another.

Law # whatever
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS

It probably goes without sayings, but what are a nation's laws except codified mores?

I thought this might help some of our new players understand where we are at in this game.

The nuts and bolts are we governed as an anarchy. No Rules are good rules.

We started the game making friends with MIA (greeks to our south on our continent) and sharing techs. Donuts (Iroquois) and TNT (Persia) had an early despotic GA war. This set both of them back a bit.

When our deal with MIA was done there was some controversy when they gifted TNT into the MA's so they could both share free techs due to their scientific trait. This angered us mightily.

We have made the right friends now in Donut. We have an agreement to share techs, research, defensive pact agreement till the end of the MA's.

In the meantime, we split borders and made peace for 50 more turns (known as the 1000 Monkey peace treaty which ends turn 165) with MIA just before April Fool's Day. April Fool's Day, a great day for all idiots really, :mischief: we declared war on TNT. They are now in a world of hurt because 2 or 3 turns ago Donut declared on them and are rambling through their jungle cities.

Ultimately this indirectly hurts MIA because their partner is toast. We are trying to get Donut to make MIA believe Donut is stabbing us in the back by trading with Donut. This is a developing situation.

Most of our diplomacy is done on IM. I'm at bawhompATyahooDOTcom if you want to hook us with some of us. The out of game activities are just as interesting as the in game activities. Recently, our Grumpy old men have played most of our turns. Scoutsout, Grahamiam and Bugsy.

Feel free to ask questions in any thread to get up to speed. Most of the threads you'd want to read are either stickied or have had posts within the last few weeks though some of the are pretty funny.