from Apolyton:

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis
Philospohical is double _Great People_ birth rate

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139066&perpage=30&pagenumber=2

But is that only with a state religion as is indicated for Pacifist Civic?

I'm curious because my natural inclination is to move towards religious freedom.

balance up the 50% wonder production a bit...

But is that only with a state religion as is indicated for Pacifist Civic?

I'm curious because my natural inclination is to move towards religious freedom.

No those are two seperate doublings. So a Pacifist Philosophical Civ will either get x4 or x3 (+200%) depending on if it is 'doubling' or '+100%' of the normal Great People in a city (of the official religion only?)

A Philosophical nonPacifist Civ will get x2.... unless there are other effects to birthrate.

If this is the case, then either the Expansive or the Industrious trait seem more powerful than Philo.

If this is the case, then either the Expansive or the Industrious trait seem more powerful than Philo.
Disagree. Remember that you can use a great man to finish any project (I assume this includes a wonder) or invent any advance in one turn (not to mention the culture bombs and GAs). Getting 2 free wonders over the time other civs get only 1 is a huge bonus, imo.

Philo seems much less powerful than I thought it was at first. Still pretty powerful though.

i am not sure but i am thinking that the Expansive trait is doing double duty - as the old seafaring trait. (Are docks , harbors ect. cheaper for Expansion Civs?) :confused:
According to one post they are. I am thinking Warmongering with ol Spain which has Spiritual and Expansive-

No, no seafaring trait..docks cheaper w aggressive, lighthouses cheaper w organized

Disagree. Remember that you can use a great man to finish any project (I assume this includes a wonder) or invent any advance in one turn (not to mention the culture bombs and GAs). Getting 2 free wonders over the time other civs get only 1 is a huge bonus, imo. Only Great Engineers can be used to hurry Wonders. None of the other Leaders have that capacity.

Only Great Engineers can be used to hurry Wonders. None of the other Leaders have that capacity. Yes. I think this opens up a fascinating strategic element.

Although you can predict the birth of Great People, you cannot predict what kind of Great Person it will be (at least, I haven't seen any evidence that you can: unless the type is governed by the city specialization?). Moreover, there is a powerful incentive not to use Great People immediately: multiple GPs can trigger Golden Ages. Finally, you have to choose between the immediate, explosive effect (like the culture bomb for Great Artists or the instant advance of a Great Scientist) versus the long-term increase in a particular city's culture or science output, which might be more useful over the long run. The difficult decisions involved -- do I want to keep one GP as an emergency reserve, am I better off using these two GPs as bombs or starting a GA, etc -- are very exciting.

I know there are five kinds of GPs: Great Engineers, Great Scientists, Great Artists, Great Merchants, and Great Prophets. I'm still unclear what Prophets do, however.

Two things, I haven't checked yet, but by the big numbers law, it must be some leaders with the same traits.

And second. Have you think of Philosophical AND industrious? That could be a good pair of traits as well.

I know there are five kinds of GPs: Great Engineers, Great Scientists, Great Artists, Great Merchants, and Great Prophets. I'm still unclear what Prophets do, however.

They can build a holy shrine in a religion's holy city, and they can research a religious tech.

And second. Have you think of Philosophical AND industrious? That could be a good pair of traits as well.

There is no Philosophical and Industrious combo. Think about it, and I'm sure you'll realize why that's the case (i.e. giant balancing problems) :mischief:

There is no Philosophical and Industrious combo. Think about it, and I'm sure you'll realize why that's the case (i.e. giant balancing problems) :mischief:

Yeah which is exactly why that will be the first thing I do before I even play the game. I'll probably mod Ghandi and play him in my first game so I get Philosophical/Industrial with a fast worker. Hey it's not cheating, I'm just using a combination of two traits. :) The Great Pyramid increases the chance of a Great Engineer and presumably there are other ways to affect the type of Great Leader as well through your actions, although if you're getting them at like 200% (let's see what's the fastest way to Philosophy... :)) you'll probably get plenty.

There is no Philosophical and Industrious combo. Think about it, and I'm sure you'll realize why that's the case (i.e. giant balancing problems) :mischief:

I really, really hope that's not the case. I'd be pretty disappointed if it was. If Philosophical and Industrious were so powerful together, they're probably clearly the best traits separately as well, and not by a little bit. I'd like to think they were a little more diligent than that. Given how simple the traits are, I doubt they're that unbalanced; change a few numbers here or there to bring them back down. I hope the lack of a Philosophical/Industrious leader is probably just something they didn't do because they didn't have time to do another leaderhead or something.