Only for TNT diplomacy and decisions

Main Diplo thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=127497&page=250)

MIA Diplo thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=131002&page=250)

D'nut Diplo Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=131004&page=250)

I heard they're "the bad guys" already. This can't be good, right?

I heard they're "the bad guys" already. This can't be good, right? Well you heard right Lil' Grasshoppah. They are at war with Donut, they have not responded to our email yet and they seem to have some players that are making for good villains in the "renaming" thread.

They're trying an archer rush I presume? How tacky, in an epic fun game with private forums, you take a team out this early. Maybe the best strategy, but makes a shorter, dumber game.

I've never liked multiplayer games (except the conquests and PBEMS I can watch :D ) because it's not like real civ, it's just early kills.

They're trying an archer rush I presume? How tacky, in an epic fun game with private forums, you take a team out this early. Maybe the best strategy, but makes a shorter, dumber game.

I've never liked multiplayer games (except the conquests and PBEMS I can watch :D ) because it's not like real civ, it's just early kills.
Close but they don't have WC so I think they're trying an immortal rush.
They're probably just underway and they are least 15+ tiles away. If they were smart they'd try to make a friend on this continent or they're staring at a 2 against 1 soon enough. ;) Not real good strategy IMO.

Yep, was dumb now that I think about it. They've got one core against two, if they allied they'd have 2 vs 2 :shakehead

Should someone forward this message? I think it's appropriate.

Dear Ironic Citizens of TNT,

As POTKISS I am confused by your lack of contact. My happy sailors offered a toast to our meeting and have said you have not responded to our invitation.

We realize there are enormous burdens on your mighty people. yes or no on this? (The slave you have hopefully eases some of this burden). If our offer of a toast was offensive we can break bread instead. We are confident we have much to offer your great nation.

Please acknowledge our presense, in some fashion, or we will take this as a sign of aggression.

Major Idiot Whomp
POTKISS

I think that we should just leave it..... I'm not concerned that they want to be left behind. I think that the quicker we can make them obsolete the better. :)

I think sending the pm and then assigning AK as ambassador is the same as leaving them out, heh, and much more fun than just keeping quiet.
How about my suggestion about agreeing with MIA to befriend one opponent each (us-nuts and mia-tnt)?

MIA has a boat out looking for TNT, but they don't know them yet.

But we could make such an agreement even if they haven't met...or can't we?

I think that we can...sure.

I think sending the pm and then assigning AK as ambassador is the same as leaving them out,

:bounce::bounce::bounce: please?

Let's just ignor them. The cold shoulder will go a long way.

Aloofness is best. As far as I can tell they have little of value that we need. Ignore 'em.

These dudes got the SoZ. Not to be sneezed at. Immortals and Gallic swords combined is pretty dangerous.

In order to get the SoZ, the need Writing and then Math. I guess that they could just beeline to it, but I'm not concerned about it.

We're likely to be a republic and in the MA before they finish building it and get their first AC.

Alright. We haven't heard from TNT at all. My thought (and this might be redundant but I like things made Idiot-plain. Not to be confused with Idiot Plane - the state of complete idiocy that we all strive to attain).

Anway, despite the fun the Admiral would have, I think we should not make any contact with TNT and simply assume beligerancy. We can let them know we are at war when we land GS on their shore - even THEY should be able to get that hint.

btw, do we know if they know where we are? We haven't seen any of their boats floating around right? I'm guessing they SUSPECT where we are, but I don't think they have hard intel.

Always thinkin'...

KB

If they have made the connection as far as symmetry of the map then maybe. Let's remember these are the same guys who are 5 or so techs behind, don't open up any dialogue, mine hills, don't use CAII etc. etc. etc.

Let's remember these are the same guys who are 5 or so techs behind, don't open up any dialogue, mine hills, don't use CAII etc. etc. etc.
Yeah, and they think F11 is a waste of time. :rolleyes: They really need a Tubby on their team, but he's OURS...all OURS!!! :D

They really need a Tubby on their team, but he's OURS...all OURS!!! :D:rolleyes: It's not that big of a deal... anyone can do it. I just the poor sap that got stuck with it :lol:

And he's even modest! :D

:rolleyes: It's not that big of a deal... anyone can do it. I just the poor sap that got stuck with it :lol:

Tubs, you are far too modest. Whomp may be the heart of our team; Dag the brains, Bede the soul, and AK the spleen/middle finger - but you, you dear Tubby Rower are the Large Intestines - you keep things moving along and with your number crunching abilities you take in the good and push out the bad.

And I mean that ;) I love you, man :cry:

:wave: spleen/middle finger here :lol:

First, I thought that ivory wasn't going to be a necessary requirement for SoZ?

We should check F7 next time we have the game and see if anyone is building a wonder.

Second, if we decide to go to war against TNT, we won't be making a landing next to their cities. We'll probably do something sneaky like slip in through the back door.

SoZ is a 300 shield wonder with no ivory required.

A proposed comuniqe to TNT:

Greetings Explosive ones:

The party boat may have sailed, but opportunity is yet in the harbor.

We would be interesting in trading technologies. You have masonry. We are interested in it. What would you take for it?

Come, let us reason together to mutual benefit.

We hope to hear from you soon for the wind is fair, the tide is right and...

I'm sailing away set an open course for the virgin sea
I've got to be free free to face the life that's ahead of me
On board I'm the captain so climb aboard
We'll search for tomorrow on every shore
And I'll try oh Lord I'll try to carry on

I look to the sea reflections in the waves spark my memory
Some happy some sad
I think of childhood friends and the dreams we had
We live happily forever so the story goes
But somehow we missed out on that pot of gold
But we'll try best that we can to carry on...

And the 'best that we can' is to continue the party.

Falicitations:

Kickbooti
Under-Idiot of Talkin' to Forigners

How does this sound?

Nice, verra nice.

Just the right tone of jollity, good fellowship and good cheer.

Thanks Bede. If we get a couple more 'ayes' I can PM this.

If accepted, to whom should I send it?

You've got an enthusiastic "aye" from me, Kickbooti! I have no idea who their diplo to us would be...whoever it may be has overslept. :D

Sounds good to me. put it in a bottle and throw it overboard towards their harbor.

Message sent to TNT (Provo and Vbraun (sp)). Let the fun begin...

I love it! Especially when we tell them we don't want it since their price is simply unfair.....oh and have a nice day. :D

No joy on the message to TNT. It hasn't yet been a day, but I'm doubtful we'll get anything. I'll keep you posted.

are you going to keep us posted on the silence :lol:.

7 crickets chirped while the dead silence continues... more at 11

are you going to keep us posted on the silence :lol:.

@Tubby :p

Since I can't be detailed with numbers and stats, I aspire to be detailed with words (or their lack) :D

nice job on the missive. I belatedly vote aye

Tim Bentley played the last save for TNT. That tells me war is close!! :spank: Weewho!! :devil:

To rattle some cages it makes sense to let Bede, 'Slinger, Bugs, Gman and Goz play some upcoming turns. Gotta keep them on their toes between that
and a psuedo-wonder build!! :groucho:

For you 5 I suggest reading Daghdha's PBEM tutorial. There's a thread by him or it's in the "Stupid decisions summary" thread.

TNT is not returning MIA's call now. They are now at 3 no contacts and 6 techs behind. :crazyeye:

I think the theory Tubby had that they are building the GLib is becoming more and more valid. A despotic GA and mining a hill may lead to that.

I think the theory Tubby had that they are building the GLib is becoming more and more valid. A despotic GA and mining a hill may lead to that.
It would sure ruin their game plan if one of us other 3 teams got an SGL and built the GLib just to deny it to them. :D

This was just found in our mail-box:

Greetings!

We have sent an offer of masonry to your people. This is a 'fine technology' that will allow your people to build houses out of stone instead of straw or sticks. In return we ask that you teach us how to draw sounds and give us a few shiny gold coins for our treasury box. We know that time is short so please make us an offer (in game) that you think is fair (and accept it). If we also think it is fair we will accept it (next turn).

It is our hope that this will be the beginning of a long and mutually prosperous relationship between our two peoples.

donsig
Grand Vizier of the Ironic People

They want US to chip in gold...? Isn't this a very strange proposal???

We should tell them they will have to come up with a better deal than that since there are 3 who know masonry and we are working on a better deal for it. CB or something since that's one of the techs MIA is considering trading with them for maths. Then we can consider trading myst for maths at a fair price if they'll research poly (for their warring nature towards monarchy) for us.

I'd like someone to start a dialogue.....just for fun. :evil:

I find it interesting that "a certain element" has been silent for quite awhile. Do you suppose they've been working on a tech called "muzzling"? :D

Are they really wanting to get Writing & gold from us for Masonry? I think that WC & CB are more fitting. That is a more equitable trade. The turn is in and I'd like to play it if I could. Does the WC & CB sound ok for Masonry (which we are already supposed to have from MIA :hmm: ) ?

No trades for masonry. We will get it from MIA at some point. They are working getting maths from them.

So just clear the table and give them the silent treatment like they gave us? That's what I prefer to do :) .

No trades but we should start a dialog for fun and intelligence.

Hey, just to let you guys know, TNT isn't silent anymore... :)

Here is my recomended response.

Hey there.

We waited and waited to hear from you, but when you din't respond Igor drank the beer we were saving for you and drank it himself and put in his Journey eight-track.

Frankly he is in no condition to bargain right now, and nobody on board wants to wake him.

But don't worry, here is the song playing in his cabin right now

Any way you want it
That’s the way you need it
Any way you want it

She loves to laugh
She loves to sing
She does everything
She loves to move
She loves to grove
She loves the lovin’ things

Ooh, all night, all night
Oh, every night
So hold tight, hold tight
Ooh, baby, hold tight

Oh, she said,
Any way you want it
That’s the way you need it
Any way you want it
She said, any way you want it
That’s the way you need it
Any way you want it

I was alone
I never knew
What good love could do
Ooh, then we touched
Then we sang
About the lovin’ things

Ooh, all night, all night
Oh, every night
So hold tight, hold tight
Ooh baby, hold tight

Oh, she said,
Any way you want it
That’s the way you need it
Any way you want it
She said, any way you want it
That’s the way you need it
Any way you want it

So you have that subliminal message going for you when he considers your offer, which is nice.

We'll talk to him when he awakens and get back with you. Don't you worry about it.

Falicitations,

Kickbooti
Under-secretary of Talkin' to Forigners.

Yeah that'll confuse them good.

:rotfl: That is oh so perfect Sir USOTTF!
Add a little Lovin' touchin' squeezin'...each other.....la la la la la la..la..

Oh, I've got plenty.

We could follow up with "Sound of Silence" or, assuming desperation or bluster on their part, my personal favorite from the Godfather of Soul, Mr. James Brown Himself, and I quote....

"Like a dull knife, that just a'int cuttin'
Your talkin' loud, and sayin' nuthin', just sayin' nuthin...'

I say let TNT swing for now, in the meantime, I shall prepare myself...:D

Oh, I've got plenty.

We could follow up with "Sound of Silence" or, assuming desperation or bluster on their part, my personal favorite from the Godfather of Soul, Mr. James Brown Himself, and I quote....

"Like a dull knife, that just a'int cuttin'
Your talkin' loud, and sayin' nuthin', just sayin' nuthin...'

I say let TNT swing for now, in the meantime, I shall prepare myself...:D

Hmm, donsig sent that...has he always been in charge of foreign communications? If not, maybe he just recently came into power and that's why this is the first we've heard from them...

If he's not new...Kickbooti's response should work just fine. ;)

If they are working the GLib pre-build it may have gone so far that they need Writing-->Lit not to waste shields. If they don't get it they may have to switch wonder or stall the process which would be fun. My guess is they want writing soon and then will time self research on Lit so to get it when the shields are up for the Jumbo Bookstore. Therefore I say deny them Writing, but we could open up a dialouge for intel. as Whomp suggested. Bootsy's reply is excellent :D .
It would be nice to have gold enough to investigate a few Persian cities (the mined hill one?) to figure out in which they're pre-building. I think there's a palace build somewhere. When we have GS's enough I would like to attack that one first and just raze it and all it's shields. It would blow up their whole strat.

There's a team who're sure all that glitters is gold
And they're buying a stairway to heaven
When KISS gets there we knows, if the stores are all closed
With a word we can get what we came for
Ooh ooh
And we're buying a stairway to heaven

There's a sign on the wall, but we wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings
In a tree by the brook there's a songbird who sings
Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven

Ooh, it makes me wonder
Ooh, it makes me wonder

There's a feeling we get when I look to the west
And my spirit is crying for leaving
In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees
And the voices of those who standing looking

Ooh, it makes me wonder
Ooh, it really makes me wonder

And it's whispered that soon, if we all call the tune
Then the idiots will lead us to reason
And a new day will dawn for those who stand long
And the forests will echo with laughter

Oh oh oh oh oh oh

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now
It's just a spring clean for the Gallic Swordsmen
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on

And it makes me wonder,
Oh oh oh

Your head is humming and it won't go, in case you don't know
The idiots are calling you to join them
Dear TNT, can you hear the wind blow and did you know
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind

And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul
There walks a team we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How everything still turns to gold
And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last
When all are one and one is all, yeah
To be a rock and not to roll

And they're buying a stairway to heaven

That little billet doux from TNT has to be the most arrogant piece of nonsense yet. Who do they think they are kidding?

I really like the 'booti response, and I think Daghie's notion is right on the money. Let 'em twist!

Do we want to send a curt response:


Greetings!

We have sent an offer of masonry to your people. This is a 'fine technology' that will allow your people to build houses out of stone instead of straw or sticks. In return we ask that you teach us how to draw sounds and give us a few shiny gold coins for our treasury box. We know that time is short so please make us an offer (in game) that you think is fair (and accept it). If we also think it is fair we will accept it (next turn).

It is our hope that this will be the beginning of a long and mutually prosperous relationship between our two peoples.

donsig
Grand Vizier of the Ironic People

Let them twist in the breeze. No response.

I close my eyes, only for a moment, and the moment's gone
All my dreams, pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind, all they are is dust in the wind.
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do, crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see

Dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind

Fe had an idea that we could suggest TNT give us masonry in exchange for not giving Donut their embassy picture. I like it. It's either that or they can pay us gpt for what we paid for it.

Very clever :D !

Why just masonry?

Knowledge is power in these PBEMS.

Ooooh, that's diabolical!!! :D

Are we even allowed to send pics like tha? I loe the idea though. It may PO them jus enough to make hm ha us though!!!

It is legal to send a embassy picture according to Fe and Tubby.

OK here's the plan. Some would say it's extortion....I say it's really just good b'ness.
We give them till our turn 63 to decide what they want us to do with their embassy picture. If they agree then send masonry on turn 64. If they don't well....(MIA sends us Masonry giving TNT the impression we sent the picture to Donut). :evil:

Can someone send a message on this.

Here's a little ditty someone can fix up since I tend towards harshness and forward while I'm out of town...

Hello Grand Vizer, (or whatever Donsig's called)
We ask you what is a picture worth? We have built an embassy in your newly built palace in Dancing Nana. Our ambassador was thrilled you gave him access to all the ivory and incense your great country has to offer. We kindly ask you to forward masonry to us so we can keep this information to ourself and only ourself. We will register this agreement to keep this information to ourself and only ourself in the U.N. once you return our request before we play turn 63.

Can someone clean this up please?

BTW I don't think they are aware we built this embassy. Is that PBEM specific? Maybe it's similar to how we don't get notification on Wonders (fyi colossus at MIA is a forest chop).

Um, aren't we just going to promise not to send it to Dnuts? I thought we were going to sell it to MIA, so we'd have to be careful how we word the promise.

Yeah yeah. I modified and it probably needs more modifying since I don't quite wax poetic. Help!

OK hold off on this for a bit. I noticed Bede established the embassies on turn 60 but on turn 61 they are not established and there's plenty of cash. I've pm'd RegentMan and Ginger Ale to make they're aware since it looks like something is wrong.

This is pretty weak. If someone wants to see some of my better lyrics, I'll share. This won't be going anywhere.

Hello Grand Vizer
Or brassiere?
Who can say what a picture is worth.
A thousand words, a thousand krona
For we’ve had a look inside the Banana
How might you ask can we see?
Why by looking out the window
Of our new embassy
In exchange for the skills
Of laying brick on brick
We’ll keep our knowledge to ourselves
And not share how many shields
You make on each tile
With the cake eaters of Springfield
If before turn sixty three
The gift of masonry we see.

It's not legal to send screenshots of city screens. At least it wasn't in the ISDG, on which the rules of this game are based. Please contact Ginger or Regent for a final verdict.

According to Daghdha in this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3333271&postcount=65)GA has already given approval. I'll check again.

According to Admins it is. Please view my correspondence w Ginger Ale in the spoiler.
Originally Posted by Daghdha
Hi Ginger, as you can see we, KISS, have now opened some embassies in the MTDG. I wonder if it would be ok to sell a screenshot to our allies MIA? They have writing too so they could do it but it would be a waste if we both can have 'em for half the price .

Best
Dagh


Hi Daghdha,

First the pertinent rule:


Quote:
1.6 - Invalid Map Trading

Description: No team or individual is permitted to barter, gift, or otherwise trade any sort of map, whether it be a screen shot, minimap, hand drawing, or any other 'picture' of the in-game map, mini-map, or embassy screenshot before the requisite tech is discovered. Verbal/text descriptions are allowed, but coordinates are not.

Definition: A team creating screen shots, drawings, or other depictions of any part of the in-game map before the requisite tech has been discovered.

Purpose: To prevent the use of outside game elements to break the spirit of the game by allowing maps to be traded before they are allowed in-game.

Verdict: Using this exploit or any other exploit that allows any map trading before the tech is discovered through any means is a violation of this rule.

Punishment Level: Once – Orange (1-5 Turns), Repeat Offense - Red (2-20 Turns)


Clearly the way I interpret it is you are free to do this once you have the requisite tech - this is where it gets a bit more complicated, but not much.

Embassies can be established with Writing. Maps can be traded with Navigation. When you establish embassies, you get a piece of a map (albeit tiny). However, any other team could get this by establishing an embassy too. So if you sell them just the embassy screen you saw that they could do themselves by establishing one themselves (obviously they have the required tech), then you are fine.

In short: yes, that is legal. I've also forwarded RegentMan a copy of this in case he has any comments, but you are fine.


edit: Ooops, teamwork :D

So my interpretation of GA's comments are that we can trade JUST the city screenshots to MIA & D'nut but not to TNT (they don't have writing yet).

I would go so far to black out any portion of the map that is beyond the cities 21- tile radius since we won't know what they have already discovered. I think that thyat would be the safest way to go about this.

We can not trade city screens with TNT but I assume we can still tell TNT we won't trade our knowledge to others(who do have the knowledge) if they give masonry.

I think we should send a message (Bugs') right now to TNT asking for masonry knowledge for maintaining our silence on their capital. Let them know they have till our turn 64 to let us know what they want to do. On turn 65 we have MIA send masonry (if TNT doesn't agree to our terms). Someone should relay this info to Fe3333au so MIA doesn't send masonry on turn 64 like we originally planned.

The reply from the Masonry for not selling d'nut their embassy screenDear Sirs,

I am sorry to inform you that we do not wish to accept your recent trade *offer*. Tell the cake eaters what ever you want, we do not care.

If you truly want to learn the skills of laying brick on brick from us we will teach you if in return you teach us how to draw sounds. Writing for masonry, straight up.

donsig
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic People

I guess that means that we need MIA to send Masonry this turn

OK I sent Fe a request to send masonry this turn.

I'm assuming that this is a request for a trade Math for Writing.

I'm not sure what to do. On one hand I'd like to do this just to give them some ammo to keep the war going. but Writing doesn't give them anything but peacetime stuff. And we are supposed to get MM from MIA soon I guess.

They are getting more creative (+2 culture in every city) . Oh wait that's only [civ4] ;) We can teach you numbers to crunch
But we're an illiterate bunch
So let's make a deal,
we'll throw in a wheel
and then we'll have doughnuts for lunch!

donsig
Grand Vizeer and poet laureate of the Ironic People

We should discuss with MIA whether they think we should do it. Then it won't look totally obvious that we are in kahoots with MIA. It also gives the perception that we want to establish some type of (alleged) good will with TNT. :evil: What are the beaker values for each?

THEN...it may be time to pull off the "deal of the century" with MIA.
All their techs for Republic. What are they up now? HBR, map making, Maths and eventually lit.

Definetly discuss with MIA before we do a (non)deal. Personally I don't see any value in their proposal although I like them showing a glimpse of humour. Now they have a Poet With Ears :D .
I say we stay way cool until the Big Deal but a friendly/witty reply would be in order. Nice behaviour should be encouraged. What I wonder is why they're so eager to get Writing?

MIA didn't let us know about their big deal with MAth did they? I heard of it a couple of days afterward from Whomp.

If they didn't let us know about their deal, I don't see any need to let them know about this one until after the fact.

The beaker cost is the same I believe. both are 240 for initial research and both have 3 civs that know the tech.

My feelings are that we should go ahead with this deal. can't explain it but I think that we should. Also a prebuild for GL might also be in order.

Are we planning on using our GS? if so against whom. better respond in the Military thread.

Let's be upfront with MIA. According to Irongold he told us of the deal. If they don't have an alternative way of getting maths then I say we do the deal too. I'd like to give TNT the impression we are friendly.

Math is known byu MIA, D'nut, & TNT. that was part of MIA's big deal a few turns back. I think that they traded TNT for MAth then gave it to D'nut or vice versa

I thought MIA was going to give us techs as they discovered them, rather than waiting until we finished Republic. If they aren't doing that, I see no harm in making trades with other civs, but we should let MIA know what we're doing.

I'm the one to blame for not passing on info about MIA's Math deal. They got it from TNT, then sold it to Nutters and Ironpyro told me about their intentions. I got the impression he had also talked with our much beloved Potkiss about it so didn't bother to post. My bad.
I've chatted w fe about TNT's proposal and MIA says "Your call" which of course it is in the end. I'm not too eager to be friends with TNT because our initial plan (Bootsy's?) on making one friend each is going down the drain here and I liked it very much. Now both we and MIA are dealing with TNT as well as Nuts. I'd prefer KISS<-->Nuts & MIA<-->TNT but maybe that is a dead option. TNT prolly wants Writing because they're getting close to finishing the pre build on GLib and they don't wanna wast shields. Why should we meet the needs of the team we reacently thought so bad about? Have they done something to help us? Didn't they give us the cold hand when they thought they could smash Nuts to pieces? Note that they've asked for writing 2 times the last few turns and that they're prolly veeeery keen on getting it. Why is that and why should KISS help 'em out? If they were about to lose the fight I'd say Yes, but for now.....No Way if they can't come up with something very good in addition to Math, i.e. loads of gold.

One way to offer writing is that we would do it but they can't build the Glib. Giving them the impression we are.
As well they may tell us they're building it and then we've gained additional intel. :D

I spoke with Fe3333au (aka Irongold) and he thinks trading with TNT makes sense. Writing for maths. My suggestion is this...
We offer the trade but say we will not build the GLib if they will not build the Glib. If they don't not agree then we know they are building it. If they do agree we gain knowledge in this regard.

As a counteroffer if they do not agree we should then ask for more (gold?) with the understanding that they would be compensated dramatically if they built the Glib and we helped them to this. As well, we are the only one they can deal with for writing since MIA has all of TNT's techs.

Thoughts?

I think that plan sounds good. I trust fe but it's the rest of the people I don't trust. All 3 of these teams have been making unexpected (ie: stupid) moves. I'm just a little leary that we'll be left hanging in the end without techs.

As well, we are the only one they can deal with for writing since MIA has all of TNT's techs. And I ask myself, why are they in this situation and what will we gain by helping them out? They're stuck in that situation because they have made the wrong moves. We can get some gold and maybe info on whether they are pre building the GLib or not. I think that is poor payment. I don't trust them a bit and whatever they say about building or not I think it will be BS. The only acceptable deal would be writing for math+gold+info on where the pre build is located. We could then use the gold to investigate that city. If they say "we do not pre build" I say they're lying their tounges out and, i.e. No Deal.

I'm just a little leary that we'll be left hanging in the end without techs. I wouldn't rely on TNT to be the ones to help us out in that department. I can't see how MIA would refuse to do the big deal and instead research rep on their own...

If they agree to not build the GLib then it's filed in the U.N. If they back out of any agreement then, in their minds, they are guaranteed another enemy. They need more friends (allegedly us and MIA) than enemies.

As far as MIA goes I don't think they will back out because of republic. However, Chamnix is a very skilled civ player (#8 in GOTM Global Rankings) and one to be deeply concerned about. The eventual showdown between him and our guys will be a treat to watch. :dance:

The only acceptable deal would be writing for math+gold+info on where the pre build is located. Oh, they might have an early SGL lurking about, can't they?
About them needing friends I agree, but I would like MIA to be their "friend" and us to be Nutters "friend". Then again, MIA did deal with Nuts even if fe said he rather see them dead. Anyway, I'm hoping for more Kissers to have their say on this matter. Let's not make a haste decision either way. What I do think we should do is to send a reply to TNT saying we're concidering their offer. They threw it in our (my) face on last turn and I didn't like that. I suspect they were hoping for someone to misclick and accept the offer throwing writing in.

Should we start just accepting it and hope that they misclick?

Should we start just accepting it and hope that they misclick? Well, I did consider that opportunity...:D . Really, I think we should send a note saying we're discussing their offer and will be back.

Definitely send a note. I would ask them in that note if we do offer writing whether they plan to build the GLib if we give them writing. The reason we ask is we are the only ones who can help them accomplish this. :evil:

I've been more or less out of it the past month (my apologies). Between real life schedules and Civ IV, I think things have gotten mixed.

Are the green people still committed to playing puppet master on the other continent or have we just decided to dispatch with TNT and then go from there?

It does seem that MIA and D'Nuts relationship have changed. I'm not oppossed to sticking our hand up TNT's keester to be puppet master, but since they will, by default, be the first team out, I am nervous about being without an 'ally.'

Maybe one of you who talks with Fe regularly could try to clarify mid/long range goals.

I'm just curious.

I don't think so Booti. MIA is thinking that they can take advantage of us. I personally think that we should start befriending TNT or D'nut and drift away from MIA.

This was in the Mailbox this morning... I guess donsig didn't like my offer :lol:Greetings!

Thank you for your recent offer of mysticism for math. I am sorry that I cannot accept it at this time. Since we had no advance knowledge of your offer my people have had no time to discuss it and I cannot take it upon myself to make such a momentous decision. My people will talk over your offer and we will let you know our decision by next turn.

I can tell you that we have had some discussion on this matter already and I do know that we would take writing or both mysticism and horseback riding (if, of course, your people possess the latter secrets). We never discussed trading math for either mysticism or horseback riding alone. :(

If you are willing to change your offer next turn to give us either (writing) or (mysticism and horseback riding) I can assure it is within my power to accept such a deal. Otherwise we can haggle a bit more. :)

donsig
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic People

I'll say it again. What do you think about sending writing for maths but under the caveat that neither of us build the Great Library?

I'm fine with it if they do build the GL. It's just that if they do build it we need to have an agreement that they'll only trade techs with us.

I'm fine with it if they do build the GL. It's just that if they do build it we need to have an agreement that they'll only trade techs with us.
I'm not sure how effective that would be, since it would mean that we'd be the only ones missing the tech. They'd have no one else to trade with but us.

Way to think outside the box gma!

wasn't planning on us only trading with TNT ;)

wasn't planning on us only trading with TNT ;)
Oh, so you're saying that if they get a tech through the Glib because maybe we and MIA had learned it, they can't trade it to Dnuts? Wow! We'd have to get that written in blood and file it with the admins. I don't trust TNT! :eek:

I don't trust any of the teams anymore.... I had a little chat with Robi (D'nut) tonight and posted (will post) the chat in D'nuts thread. I'm spreading some contempt for MIA :evil:

I don't think it's a good idea to let TNT or Nuts have the GLib. Saves 'em way too much money. We could of course turn down sci too, wait for MIA+no-GLib Civ to finish something that the GLib Civ gets and then have them send it to us but that will not work, heh. There is too few civs to make for any trading options really, and stalling by restricting their right to sell around...I wouldn't sign that paper if I was sitting in the jumbo bookstore.

I just noticed Provo has changed his title to "Shadows Puppeteer". Is his ego playing tricks with him or is it just nothing? Maybe we should keep a closer eye on TNT's whereabout/trades?.........!

I sent a brief not on whether TNT would be interested in trading for Philo/CoL. This is the answer and why for crissake can't they speak like normal people....
We are quite interested in learning about the Celtic code of laws, though we are quite satisfied withour own Ironic philosophy. There is a minor tribe living on our lands who call themselves Iroqi. Their warriors ride around on four legged beasts called horses. We can teach your people to do this in return for a copy of your code of laws. The offer of horseback riding has been sent.

Regards,
donsig
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic People

After our conversation with Chamnix I felt it was important to get something off to TNT.
says:
we were talking about poly and lit - i don't think it is a firm offer yet.

Just to get feelers out there I suggested this...which we should discuss if they show interest.

We could add that we will give them monarchy(assuming we want monarchy) if they will give us their free tech in the MA. If it's what we've already researched then oh well (we'd have a 67% chance it's not) but if it's something else they give it up and it allows us to beeline to cavs. What do you think?
Which Tubby responded like this...

What about Republic... They'd prolly take it, but it'll kill them in unit support and lux spending

And Tubby's email...

Dear emissaries from the great nation of all exploding things,

It has come through our entwining grapevines that you are researching Construction. After that great monument in your city of Simtex, the gods should have just immediately granted you this technology. We are coming to offer a trade for Construction once you finalize the last bits of research.

Our mystics have divined that we know some technologies that you might not have. Every tech in this most Ancient of Ages except the art of Monarchy and the aforementioned Construction are currently under our skullcaps. We are willing to make an equitable trade. We could even help get you up to speed, if the price is right.

Also, we'd like to propose a deal for your free tech of the Middle Ages. Upon Construction being researched, we could give you the art of a higher government for your free tech. Just something to be thinking about. Please feel free to offer something else that you might think is equitable

Thanks for your time,
Tubby of the Idiots


We'll see....

I finally received a reply

Greetings Shah Tubby!

We thank you so very much for your recent offer to trade fine technologies as our friends to the south refer to them, but we are currently constricted in our ability to sell construction.

Hope your war against the Greeks goes well.

TTFN

signed
donsig II
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples

"constricted"??? What does he mean by that, I wonder?

Our war with the Greeks???? I didn't know we'd declared. :hmm:

MIA is TNT's partner...they will trade MA techs with each other (as scientifics) and become the runaway tech leaders. We have a classic dogpile scenario since TNT and Donuts are talking peace and both have given indications of strangeness. TNT and MIA will likely bribe Donut with construction and one of the two MA techs to jump on top. It may be time to call MIA's bluff and ask for peace.

Wow - it's been two months since we've had any diplomatic discussion about TNT? :mischief:

On the last turn they showed up offering ivory. I hit escape in the game... but it might not be a bad thing if our ambassador checked in with them and asked them what they want for their ivory.

and there was bad blood.

The simples get angry when the long words appeared

The simples get angry when the <censored> appears.

We told the world that we have a long memory (chicks dig us for this reason)

BTW, dinsog has no friends here.

O, BTW, this a declaration of war on TNT.

I'm not good for much else but anytime, you wanna talk peace, send me a PM. Send it anywhere else or to anyone else, we consider it reason to keep going. I am your sole point of contact for the future. Live with it. Be the idiot.
@ all, sorry I'm not PC. At least I didn't post this publically
@ gma, sorry, but this carrying your child around is a pain... makes me cranky, gives me a backache

@ gma, sorry, but this carrying your child around is a pain... makes me cranky, gives me a backache
Now, don't tell me YOU'RE preggers!!! :eek:

@ gma, if u hadn't taken advantage of me....

@ gma, if u hadn't taken advantage of me....
Shshhhhhh!!!! You promised you wouldn't tell. :blush:

More fodder for Kickbotti's Yellow Press. Zounds!

I went to go send a dispatch to TNT and this is what was in the mailbox...
We showed you ours
And you showed us yours
Now what do we do?

Are you offering ivory for gems?
Throw in a worker and you've got a deal.
We'll treat him well, he won't be a slave.

Write back soon if you want to haggle.

signed
donsig
President of the Republic of Iron
Hereditary Grand Vizeer of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples

Dinsog is losing his mind and soon to lose his Fur :mischief:

I recomend a reply along these lines.

You're offer intrigues us, but we will need time to consider.
In the meanwhile, we are sending inspectors from the
Idiodic Gemalogical Institute. You will recognize them by the craze
look in their eyes and the large swords they carry.

I hear they are looking forward to the upcoming tour of your country.

Enjoy their stay.

That should be sent as a declaration of war... I wonder if we could postpone the reply until we need to declare. :hmm:

Sorry, I was taking my cue from the Admiral, I thought we were looking for a declaratin of war. If not, my bad.

If the timing works out, and if it fits our geo-political needs of the moment, we could declare war thusly...

Most Esteemed Residents of TNT:

We humbly apologize for the offensive tone and saber-rattling nature of our last communique.

We are a passionate people, and drink sometimes makes us forget ourselves. We apologize for any distress or unease our message may have caused.

The people of KISS are, at heart, peacable farmers dedicated to the matters of religious enlightenment. We believe that amicable relatioins and open trade further these sublime pursuits and are eager to engage in discussions regarding trade and commerce.

Please, brothers, let us sit and barter. May our interaction based on mutual respect lead us both to a peacable and prosperous existence.


APRIL FOOLS!!!

We're just messing with you. We're idiots and April Fools Day is our highest religous holiday.

We're really only interested in trading blows. Soon your cheif import will be pain, while your cheif export will be the odor from your fancy silk MC Hammer pants when you soil yourselves at our approach.

Consider this a declaration of war.

Have a nice day.

Love it!! We could send that with AK's message as their future envoy. That should get them nice and riled up.

Oh man - this is awesome stuff! But don't send ANY of it until after TNT sends the save to MIA. At that point it will not matter, as I am planning an in-game declaration of war on the very next turn.

Cry Havoc! And let slip the Dogs of War!

Edit: Sorry for the double-post... but if you could work something in there along the lines of "We shall make Dinsog pay for blowing up our doughbolt factory" ...it might play well well with forthcoming spam/yellow journalism/propaganda/newsletter stuff...

have it done by tomorrow. Running out to buy beer now. no work tomorrow. Told boss i had to clean up scout's sloppy english. his eyes glazed over and he said 'whatever'. then I asked a new work computer. the eyes were still glazed so he said 'whatever' again. rinse and repeat

I would like to propose a battle mascott for this campaign.

I think that nothing (short of Whomp's speeches) would inspire our troops more than the famed and ferocious Hildisvin - the Pig of Battle.

I have searched in vain for a good picture, perhaps Mistfit could find something appropriate.

And so for TNT I say "Cry Soooeee! And let slip the Pigs of Battle!" Has an Idiodic ring to it.

This is Hildisvin the Battle Pig. FYI "Svin" is "Pig" in Swedish, end of lesson.

the turn has been sent to MIA...so the declaration can and should happen on April Fools

I suppose this is obvious, but we want to wait until we have the game back before we declare.

I think it may be completely fitting to declare the "War to Free the World from Dinsog" on our most holy day. We can have a Jihad.

KB's DoW is hereby sent overseas......Yiiiee-Haaawd

I know this might sound crazy coming from a grumpy, but we need to start thinking about the peace treaty. :crazyeye: Obviously this will depend upon the conduct of the war, the blessings of Meleet and the luck of the PRNG.

I agree... No matter how things turn out with TNT and Furbomb, we need to start thinking about how to get our GA then get out of the war. That is really the main purpose of this war (Other than the obvious police action against Dinsog).

See I'm seeing this differently. I see this as an opportunity grab a large portion of land on the other continent. We are limited on what we can have on our continent by our treaty. We are not limited by what land we can grab on the other continent. Imagine what a half dozen cities across the straits would do for our economy, our research and our productivity.

I think this is our opportunity to tip the scales in our favor.

Aaahh... I see now... thanks for the explanation.. I'm on board for whatever the grumpy's decide. I'm in learnin' mode

Whomp here again. Sorry Scout I will change the avvie once I can get back on my PC.

I'm on board with Bugs. The only part I would suggest we keep in mind is the ticking clock on the MIA treaty. We want to make sure we have enough time to prosecute this war against TNT without running up against the clock. Some tribute will be required as it gets closer.

Swiftly Grumpies, swiftly.

We have fifty turns. If we spent 25 turns prosecuting a war, we can be well prepared for any contingencies at turn fifty.

Plus I am expecting that TNT may be fairly weak from their earlier struggles. MIA cannot help them with any military techs since they have been researching the top tier. Neither of them have Engineering, so I doubt we will see knights during this war.

I think we should have our diplomats encourage MIA to join in out police action and help us divide up TNT-land. MIA, you can have the western 25%, Donuts can have the southern 25% with the jungles and swamps and we'll take the rest cause we were here first.

@Bugs: Here's what I'm concerned about: MIA will know our troop disposition over there. If they're any good at math, they'll quickly figure out we've committed roughly half of our military to this campaign, and that they could really bring the pain if they wanted to.

I am not too trusting in their willingness to play this honorably. I would like it if our diplomatic corps had been having more dialog with them this weekend.

OK, that's fair. I wouldn't trust them either. Perhaps we send only every other new unit to the war zone and start building up at home. Can we watch the entire DMZ? Perhaps a watchtower or two would be advisable. Early warning on the home front of any approaching troops will be important. Roading just behind the DMZ will be important as well.

If I can just get a few pikes and trebs into our luxury towns I'll feel better. I think I might slow down research a bit more and cash rush some stuff in there. I don't think MIA has a great many MDI... I think their army is weighted towards the defensive stuff...and I doubt they have many seige weapons.

Perhaps the best thing is that everyone was caught by surprise...and they're probably not in position to attack immediately.

A couple of trebs in those towns will works wonders.

@Bugs: Here's what I'm concerned about: MIA will know our troop disposition over there. If they're any good at math, they'll quickly figure out we've committed roughly half of our military to this campaign, and that they could really bring the pain if they wanted to. If we get to trigger our GA, then MIA will not be in quite so good shape. Our production can quickly get us out of any homeland defense problem. Some forts, some walls, some outposts along the DMZ for early warning. We'll be in great shape.

TNT finally moved the save with this from dinsog

Turn 118 played and sent on.

Sorry for taking so long. Got distracted playing the current Civ III Classic GOTM. We're playing the Celts this time. Gotta love those Gallic swordsmen! :crazyeye::lol:

Ok here it is...
Odd question to start the conversation off with
BCLG100:so whats KISS's plans now we beat down your swordsmen?
Tubby Rower :well 3 lost GS for 3 lost cities is a good deal any day of the week
BCLG100:strangely thats not how the rest of my team see it but yep
Tubby Rower :we've been scratching our heads at some of the moves that you guys have been doing
BCLG100:how you mean?
Tubby Rower :mining a hill in despostism.. jumping your capital early in the game.. starting a war before you were prepared
Tubby Rower :pick one
BCLG100:ah, i wasnt involved in any of them
BCLG100:got involved towards the end of the war with the nutters


Intel about Provo and Strider
BCLG100:bout the same time provolution took a wander
Tubby Rower :where DID he go?
BCLG100:dunno, no great loss maybe the same place strider buggers off every now and then before coming back with his 'insights'
Tubby Rower :both of them seem a bit odd to me
BCLG100:yer, though the whole car crash thing to me seemed odder
Tubby Rower :car crash?
BCLG100:you not here about that?
BCLG100:was a couple of years ago
Tubby Rower :no... who was involved?
BCLG100:strider apparantly
Tubby Rower :obviously he's fine now, but what happened?
BCLG100:well apparantly he was in a car crash
BCLG100:and his girlfriend came online in his login thing
BCLG100:and started this thread in OT saying how he'd bene driving or something like that and crashed and then a car landed on him
BCLG100:naturally being OT and a bit of a spammy place it got like 500 odd condolences posts and stuff
BCLG100:she specified the time and things
Tubby Rower :OT, spammy... noo tell me it's not true
BCLG100:then someone noticed that he'd managed to post in an SG he was playing an hour after he was meant to have had his accident
Tubby Rower :dork
BCLG100:yup
BCLG100:whomp knows about it as well
BCLG100:probably has a better explanation than me
BCLG100:i wasnt there at the time
BCLG100:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=85610&highlight=Strider
Tubby Rower :strange dude.
BCLG100:thats the thread
Tubby Rower :he's really into role-playing
Tubby Rower :prolly did it to see if he could fool people
BCLG100:yup, he'd have been good in the RPG if he hadnt got pissed when we picked holes in his game and closed everything down
Tubby Rower :"it's my ball and I'm going home" :S
BCLG100:lol summit like that yer
BCLG100:brb just searching for food
Tubby Rower :ok
BCLG100:got some crisps

Talk about civil war :confused:
BCLG100:so where abouts in America are you? i know none of it so exact locations arnt neccesary :)
Tubby Rower :in Virginia
Tubby Rower :mid way up the east coast
Tubby Rower :I'm from South Carolina which is a little further south
BCLG100:ah ok
BCLG100:thats the south areas isnt it??
Tubby Rower :I don't understand "south areas"
BCLG100:well like in the civil war
BCLG100:there was the north and south
Tubby Rower :oh.. yes.
BCLG100:thats the south is it?
Tubby Rower :South Carolina was the first to succeed
Tubby Rower :spelling is not right
BCLG100:succeed???
Tubby Rower :secede
Tubby Rower :http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=secede
BCLG100:ah ok


Showing off my girls
Tubby Rower :these are my girls
Tubby Rower :Sherry my wife and my daughter Ana
Tubby Rower :are you using MSN?
BCLG100:awww
BCLG100:yep
Tubby Rower :the other baby is being stubborn
BCLG100:still not come?
Tubby Rower :not yet
Tubby Rower :I told him through Sherry;s belly to come out and he/she kicked me :)
BCLG100:lol
BCLG100:all the best babies stay in there for as long as possible
BCLG100:apparantly i was in there for a quite awhile
Tubby Rower :I pretty excited to find out whether it is a boy or a girl
Tubby Rower :Ana was 2 weeks late
BCLG100:ah
BCLG100:you know what your going to call him/her?
Tubby Rower :yup
Tubby Rower :Ethan Michael of it's a boy
Tubby Rower :and Catherine Brooke if it's a girl
BCLG100:Michael and brooke the middle names???
Tubby Rower :yes
BCLG100:ah right cool
BCLG100:cool, dont know any ethans but the Catherine i do know is a genius
Tubby Rower :Well I need to go get some sleep.. I have to be up at 5 AM if Sherry doesn't start having this baby
BCLG100:k doke, night night
Tubby Rower :nite ...
BCLG100:if she does apparantly you shouldnt look
Tubby Rower :why?
BCLG100::)
BCLG100:dunno its meant to be offputting for you for later life or something
Tubby Rower :I saw the whole thing with Ana... it was pretty cool
Tubby Rower :it's fascinating stuff
BCLG100:oh ok well go for it then! :D
Tubby Rower ::D
Tubby Rower :nite simon
BCLG100:well have fun if she does :) and good luck :)
Tubby Rower :ok thanks


Talk of peace???
Tubby Rower :I'll check back with you later once we are ready for a peace accord
BCLG100:lol good of you, maybe we wont be :P
Tubby Rower :I figured as much.
BCLG100:well i am
Tubby Rower :but can't we all get along?
BCLG100:but the team doesnt really listen to what i say


Talking about TNT personnel
Tubby Rower :they seem to be dead set on their own destruction
BCLG100:we dont really have anyone thats any good
Tubby Rower :you do... they just might not be active ;)
BCLG100:theodens alright but thats about it
BCLG100:and he also tends to get ignored
Tubby Rower :Theoden's pretty darn good.. we were sizing up the teams and he was feared by our team
BCLG100:thinkin about it, no-one listens to anyone
Tubby Rower :so is tomoyo, but from what I understand he's not active
BCLG100:nope
BCLG100:its me, greekguy, donsig, lost civantres, theoden and strider
BCLG100:thats bout it i think
BCLG100:oh yer and Timbentley
Tubby Rower :alright, well good luck with it all and maybe you can have a better experience on Aloha than TNT ;)
Tubby Rower :Tim bentley is pretty good too.
BCLG100:lol
BCLG100:might get the old civ3 out someday
BCLG100:anyways hopefully have fun tomorrow :)
Tubby Rower :ok.. nite for real this time
BCLG100:lol nite

good intel Tubby. Actually that's the first real insight we have had into that team.

I'd say for the time being let's proceed on the present course. Wouldn't it be nice if TNT presented some nice skirmishing targets?

any insight into how good simon is?

Mistfit was talking to him about some avatar stuff and Kevin asked him which direction that we should head and he said east :lol: ... he has a sense of humor. He's 18 yo if that matters to anyone.

Simon BCLG recently was smack talking about civ and I threw down the gauntlet to play him mano a mano in a civ3 or 4 pbem. He did not respond so I don't think he has that much confidence in his skills if he won't take me on.:lol:

If TNT was smart they'd let Tim Bentley take over but they have not. Tim is not confrontational so I think he backs down from the big mouths.

In the meantime, Swinque at CDZ was perusing the forums at CFC and found the Ironic Bible to be amusing and posted in the Great Meleet's forum. BCLG, Tubby and I have been going back and forth on the current war so I'll keep prodding him for more info in this thread. :smug:

http://civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3483

I don't think he has that much confidence in his skills if he won't take me on.:lol:

either that or you've somehow have him fooled that you are good :p

Simon wonders where we think their troops are. I'd say down sout waiting for their continental "friends" to come knock, knock :D

Simon wonders where we think their troops are. I'd say down south waiting for their continental "friends" to come knock, knock :DPlanting that idea in their heads is a very good idea. If we can keep their forces split, we will have a distinct advantage.

So with that thought -
- How about if we have the Donuts stop talking to them altogether. Tell them that they can help us with some psychological warfare.

- Ask them to do some "demonstrations" and place a few troops right on the TNT/Donutian frontier.

- Plant the idea in TNT's head that we have a RoP with Donuts and that we are a threat. That we plan on capturing boarder towns and gifting them immediately to Donuts.

- How about if we have the Donuts stop talking to them altogether. Tell them that they can help us with some psychological warfare.

- Ask them to do some "demonstrations" and place a few troops right on the TNT/Donutian frontier.

- Plant the idea in TNT's head that we have a RoP with Donuts and that we are a threat. That we plan on capturing boarder towns and gifting them immediately to Donuts.
Oooooh, if we can get D'nuts to go along, that's diabolical, Bugs!!! :satan:

Diabolical is one of the things I like about Bugs. :D

:devil: yeah, that's me.

I put this up for feedback:

Most respected Doughnutians

You were asking if we had run out of options on the dyes deal. We think not. Something that would be helpful in our re-making of Persia is some psychological warfare, and here you have a part to play.

1. Close down communications with TNT for 20 turns, all of them.
2. Flaunt some troops at their south border.

If you do this, you would get our fine dyes for 20 turns.

Cheers :beer:
KISS dept of psych warfare

sounds good to me. maybe add something in there about a "farewell message" as they prolly don't chat over a cup of joe. The farewell message could read something like "We will enjoy your cities once they have been liberated and given back to their proper owners"

Since we already sent them the dyes, we are probably relying on their good will.

I posted a PM to the Doughnutians and forgot about this (because it wasn't in the Diplo for D'nut thread) ... I'd bet that they'd still go for it.

That's because I'm old and can't remember where I'm posting. :rolleyes:

I've checked the Ruleset and can't find anything to preclude this, so I have an idea...

Might we get TNT to surrender to us?

Given the Real Word dissatisfaction that seems apparent, combined with a few over-stated proposals 'from the Nuts' about grinding TNT into dust, plus an offer to open-eared members TNT to join the idiodic fun we have here in KISS-land, could we get them to GIVE us their country? After all, who likes to fight an obviously lost battle?

We could make the historical analogy of Axis units rushing West to surrender to British/US troops rather than Soviet. Would TNT rather join the Nuts (who hate them) or KISS, who will forgive them after a few drinks?

It is a long shot, but is it possible/permissable?

I would love to have a nice, pre-developed territory on Battle Isle. And while their dotmaping skills don't match what is on our Team (therefore making it the perpetual 'wrong side of the tracks'), still it would be somthing to add eight or so cities in one grand sweep.

Just wondering.

I can't recall if there was ever a final determination from the admins about what would happen to the members of a losing team in the discussion about it a few months back.

I also wonder if TNT might be just a bit annoyed with us for attacking them. They may prefer to surrender to D'nuts (if at all to anyone) because, although D'nuts won the battle, they weren't the aggressors. This time we are.

It's too bad we've never had a close diplo relationship with TNT. Who would our diplomats talk to on their team?

A pm I sent to Regent Man and Ginger Ale asking about having Donut investigate cities. :satan:

I want to pm you just to make sure we are not exploiting any of the rules. If we have Donut investigate a TNT city and they describe what they see to us I assume this would be within the rules.

Please advise.
Thanks and Happy Easter.
Whomper

And the response...
Yes, as long as it is verbal and there are no images/screenshots.

Here's the rule.

1.6 - Invalid Map Trading

Spoiler:

Description: No team or individual is permitted to barter, gift, or otherwise trade any sort of map, whether it be a screen shot, minimap, hand drawing, or any other 'picture' of the in-game map, mini-map, or embassy screenshot before the requisite tech is discovered. Verbal/text descriptions are allowed, but coordinates are not.

So we can have the donuts look at Dancing Banana :banana: and tell us what kind of defense they see. This would be very helpful.

During my Easter dinner with my in-laws I had an idea. (Yeah, I know :rolleyes: ) Anyway. We could offer TNT a peace treaty where they have to abandon two of their cities in the north or east (perhaps their iron city and the city SE of their capitol) and promise not to settle east of a certain line for 20 turns or so. That would allow us to establish a firm toehold.

It seems that TNT has taken this personally and peace is probably not likely anytime soon. Donsig seems to be calling all the shots and no one else has a say. I feel this will be their Waterloo...

Tubby will add the first part of the conversation when I was bounced out...
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
in TNT or in general?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
welcome back
Tubby Rower says:
no listening = in TNT
Whomp says:
something's wrong with my ethernet card
Tubby Rower says:
Operator
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we listen
Whomp says:
it says a network cable is unplugged sorry
Tubby Rower says:
just don't respond
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
just sometimes ignored
Tubby Rower says:
So what can be offered for peace?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
realistically
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
maybe some gold
Tubby Rower says:
we don't need gold
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well then thats about all i could probably say, we might do a biased trade in your favour
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
but even then i dunno
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i'd like to say something against someone else
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
but no-one on the team is going to go for that
Tubby Rower says:
well find out what TNT is willing to offer for peace and get back with us
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well donsig is online, so no matter what anyone else says TNT normally ends up doing what he says as he's prez/turn taker
Tubby Rower says:
hmmm.. powerful position
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer well he did put the position up for nomination a month back but no-one else could be arsed to do it
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we nominated theoden but he was too busy
Tubby Rower says:
!lol
Tubby Rower says:
we had that problem once
Whomp says:
we did?
Tubby Rower says:
then I playyed for a while and now everyone is volunteering
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
oooo saviour!
Tubby Rower says:
so is there anything else that we can discuss? gifted cities? free techs?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
not sure we have any techs you dont
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
plus i dont think we can
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and cities is just not an option
Tubby Rower says:
why can't you?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well we dont have anything you dont
Tubby Rower says:
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
plus i dont think we can

Tubby Rower says:
why do you think that you can't?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
because no-one wants to give you anything for peace, just getting peace for free would probably take discussion even though its the best option we could hope for right now
Tubby Rower says:
hmmm... arrogant lot you have over at TNT.
Whomp says:
see thing is we can be patient
Whomp says:
you can't
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
why not?
Whomp says:
infrastructure for one
Whomp says:
war wariness
Whomp says:
grind grind grind
Whomp says:
what's your current peace treaty with donut?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well we havnt had any cities actually taken by you so that isnt so much of a big thing right now
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
about the WW there
Whomp says:
abandoning and razing is nearly the same
Tubby Rower says:
so continue to raze your own cities that's fine with us
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
errr treaty with the nutters
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
ill go have a look
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we've got a peace treaty, no go area etc
Whomp says:
demarcation line i suppose
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
whats that mean???
Whomp says:
no crossing a certain area
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
ah right yer
Whomp says:
and peace for a long time i suppose
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i think so
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
someone was banging on about re-negotiating that treaty
Whomp says:
that may help you
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
how'd you mean?
Whomp says:
extending peace
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer we figured as much
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
what about you and MIA, how come you signed a treaty for 50 turns when you were just about to go to war?
Whomp says:
other plans
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
us?
Whomp says:
kind of worked that way didn't it
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
btw when/if we do start diplomascising who should i e-mail?
Tubby Rower says:
me or whomp
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
k doke
Tubby Rower says:
or send it to teamkiss@gmail.com
Whomp says:
or admiral lol
Tubby Rower says:
Simon, I'm going to go but I'll leave the window open to see what's going on.
Tubby Rower says:
nite nite
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
nite
Whomp says:
bye tubs
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so if say you manage to knock us off, who'd be next?
Whomp says:
then we have lots of land
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer but next to go to war against?
Whomp says:
i'm not sure if we have to
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
why?
Whomp says:
well we can crank up science with our trait
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and shoot for a what victory?
Whomp says:
depends
Whomp says:
growth is power
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so is knowledge
Whomp says:
in civ3 it's growth #1
Whomp says:
can't have knowledge without citizens...the more citizens to more beakers and specialists
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i spose
Whomp says:
so the question is whether you can fight and grow
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we cant stop growing right now
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
its part of the problem
Whomp says:
so that's what you have to figure out. do you fight to the death or do you get back in the game
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well ok if you wanted peace, whats the lowest you'd offer
Whomp says:
i'm not sure. i'd have to discuss it with the team
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well talk about it, right now whatever you say we're pretty likely not to accept but its always useful to know
Whomp says:
the longer it takes the harder it will become to make peace
Whomp says:
we can be patient
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer but many of my team play this game on like a personal level
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so when your declaring war on them they take it personally, which maybe they should but they then ignore the bad parts of whats going on
Whomp says:
well unfortunately you're the only team that wouldn't talk to us
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well thats what tubby said
Whomp says:
good question
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
but i looked through our communications with you
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and noticed only 1 unreplied too message
Whomp says:
there were times we sent messages without response early on
Whomp says:
never was a peace treaty even discussed
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well you sent this one
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
Ahoy, Traditori!

In honor of our meeting we have turned the music down on our party boat...

Would you like a malt beverage? We have ale and stout.

Or maybe something a little more potent, we have a bottle of Jack here, just let me get the dust off the bottle.

Of course if you prefer, pink zinfandel, or maybe a nice dry white.

Be happy if you'd join us for this cruise.

RSVP this address.

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
Ahoy Mateys!

Actually we think you should turn the music up and start the party! Any of those drinks are fine, infact we'll take whatever you guys specialize in. We hope that this party is the start of good relations!

vbraun
Ironic Ambassador
Grand Veezer

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and we replied
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
then you sent another one which we didnt end up replying too because i think vbraun stopped playing and they must have forgot
Whomp says:
see
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer but once
Whomp says:
well we don't have to start all discussions
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and then you sent this
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
Hello Grand Vizer,

Who can say what a picture is worth?
A thousand words, a thousand krona
For we've had a look inside the Banana
How might you ask can we see?
Why by looking out the window
Of our new embassy
In exchange for the skills
Of laying brick on brick
We'll keep our knowledge to ourselves
And not share how many shields
You make on each tile
With the cake eaters of Springfield

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
If before our turn sixty four
The gift of masonry we see.

Kisses,

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
blackmailing us maybe wasnt the best way to make friends
Whomp says:
you were not very responsive and made no attempts at any type of treaty
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
you didnt propose one either though
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
also, we didnt sign a peace treaty with anyone, maybe a highlight of our MP naievaty
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
not sure how you spell that
Whomp says:
i understand what you meant
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
phew
Whomp says:
naivette?
Whomp says:
i dunno either
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
lol
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer 'newness'
Whomp says:
funny how this is the first conversation i've ever had with someone from your team
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
thats cos im awesome
Whomp says:

Whomp says:
just think...two months ago this conversation could've made things very different
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
probably
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
out of the 3 though, i least prefer to be at war with KISS
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
no-one would go for my first choice
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and 2nd choice doubt would happen either
Whomp says:
we're just a bunch of idiots though
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
btw whoever wrote the declaration of war, was pretty funny
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i got scorned when i mentioned that
Whomp says:
kickbooti
Whomp says:
lol
Whomp says:
i thought the timing was impeccable
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
had you actually been planning that?
Whomp says:
yep
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
cool
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well not really that cool for us
Whomp says:
it's not over my friend...more to come
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
but pretty funny
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
more???
Whomp says:
pain train
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
ah right k
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
you actually planning on landing more units then
Whomp says:
did you think we'd stop there?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well we never really thought about it tbh
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well anything more KISS/TNT wise?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
otherwise i best be getting to bed
Whomp says:
caffeine is wearing off...i would say if you want to talk we're open...if you want to fight to the death that's ok too
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well, oooooooo send me an e-mail so i have something to do
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
that way i look all big nd stuff
Whomp says:
ok
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
can toddle off and post it in the main forum
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and be like 'oooooooooooh yer!'
Whomp says:
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
oh and tubby when your reading this if i dont talk to you beforehand am looking forward to kicking your ass in hattrick
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
cool, well ill speak to you another time, night night

That's a very interesting conversation. It doesn't sound like they are approaching this with any logic or reason. Strictly emotion. A very poor way to run a country. (And that's coming from a member of an anarchy!)

I think this makes their movements make more sense. They are going to come storming right at us and kick our butt. We need to play to this weakness. I think it sets them up for our end around move even better.

I think this makes their movements make more sense. They are going to come storming right at us and kick our butt. We need to play to this weakness. I think it sets them up for our end around move even better.So hey Bugs... wanna pick up the next save and play to their weakness? :devil:

Here is the first part of the conversation......Whomp says:
wtf...my ethernet card is not working now
Tubby Rower says:
your msn sucks
Whomp says:
and i don't know where to find my ethernet card

Whomp was added to this conversation. Handwriting is no longer supported because not all participants can view handwritten messages. Handwritten messages will be sent as text.

Whomp says:
do you know what it means to bridge connections?
Tubby Rower says:
ok Simon was added over here
Whomp says:
'ello young simon
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
hey
Tubby Rower says:
I was telling Simon that parts of MIA wanted a piece of us
Whomp says:
i'm sure they still do
Whomp says:
i know for a fact they want me
Tubby Rower says:
Simon is our diplo contact with TNT
Whomp says:
someone's gotta talk to us
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well thats not what they we're telling us
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
they we're showing us parts of your messages
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
showing relationships going sour from your end
Tubby Rower says:
parts = key word
Whomp says:
there was some serious differences of opinion
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we can only judge on what we see
Whomp says:
of course...well it's in the past
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
when your only seeing one side of the convo
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
this looks fairly bad---

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
To MIA Diplomatic Corps:

We are unhappy, and frustrated, by your recent dealings with the "Dark Side" across the water. We can no longer guarantee continued peaceful relations beyond 470BC (T104).

During this period we will view any incursion of your troops or settlers north of The Line of Demarcation set forth in the attached map as an act of war a
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
During this period we will view any incursion of your troops or settlers north of The Line of Demarcation set forth in the attached map as an act of war and will respond accordingly.

Bede of KISS
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
crap wrong convo
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
gonna have to turn that convo with tubby off now
Whomp says:

Whomp says:
they screwed us over but let them deal without us now
Whomp says:
no biggie
Whomp says:
it's what they want then that's what they got
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well there were a few of us, cough me cough, who were especially annoyed at their help or lack thereof during your invasion
Whomp says:
they would rather play peaceful and build is my guess
Whomp says:
go for a space shot
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer, the game isnt going to last that long...
Whomp says:
they may think it will
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
but also ive been made minister for war now *puffs our chest*
Whomp says:

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
not much help now we've already been invaded
Whomp says:
tactician
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and that better not be a smiley because im not good and your happy now
Whomp says:
how does that work? is it similar to the demogame?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well its sort of a self appointed position
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
basically i said i was
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
in an attempt for people to stop listening to another member of our team
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so im sort of making it up what i do as i go along
Tubby Rower says:
sorry I'm playing a PBEM
Tubby Rower says:
I'll brb
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
its k
Whomp says:
tubs what's up with the cats going back and forth?
Whomp says:
tubby is persians in our 3x2 pbem
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
ah ok
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
wish my first pbem would get started
Whomp says:
tubby and grahamiam vs. barbu and i vs rik meleet and mistfit
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
cool
Whomp says:
all war against each other. no friends except your partner
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
civ 4 or 3?
Whomp says:
that one is 3
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
ah ok
Whomp says:
we're at the beginning of the MA
Whomp says:
with kings
Whomp says:
tubby has a galley outside one of my cities...i will have to destroy him if he lands
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
lol
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
accidently uninstalled civ3 the other day
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
all of it and only have the conquests disc on me
Whomp says:
oh no
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so gotta try and find the other one
Whomp says:
crap
Whomp says:
that stinks
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer but am havin fun with the mods in civ4
Whomp says:
really which ones?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
errr well i liked the built in ancient greek world one and have downloaded a couple
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
just seeing what its called
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
downloaded this one-http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144716 but havnt managed to play it yet
Whomp says:
they had that one in civ3 too
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
been playing this one-http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144971 i like it, has loads more civics and techs
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer i know but i never found it for civ3
Whomp says:
i'd like to try a WWII mod
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
theres one built into the game
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
played that this afternoon as well
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
the 'desert war' one but i dont think its that good
Whomp says:
i've played it too and don't like it so much
Whomp says:
aircraft is too powerful
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so anyways, what are KISS doing now?
Tubby Rower says:
ok
Tubby Rower says:
back
Whomp says:
what'd you do with that galley?
Tubby Rower says:
kill your barb galley
Whomp says:
aha so you met that guy huh?
Whomp says:
he was protecting my coast. i think he sunk one of rik's boats
Whomp says:
redliner right?
Tubby Rower says:
no longer
Whomp says:
Sorry Simon...so what are the thoughts on the war?
Whomp says:
or police action?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well its not good for TNT in so many ways
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yes we're at war so theres the chance of losing more cities, units etc
Whomp says:
economics could be an issue
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
but also we're the only team to have been at war twice and we're already a couple of hundred points behind you and MIA so its not going to get any better
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we have a bit of infrastructure but no-one knows how to work tiles on TNT, there irrigating floodplains
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
*their
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
*they're
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we've also had some very different ideas on how we can proceed in this war
Tubby Rower says:
division doesn't have it's place in war
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
plus i prefer wars which i have planned expertly
Tubby Rower says:
this one has
Whomp says:
it's a rough spot to be in
Whomp says:
the question is whether you can offer us something to stop?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well thats just not going to happen
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
even if i wanted it, the rest of the team doesnt
Tubby Rower says:
so what's the point of talks?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
gives me as an ambassador something to do i guess
Whomp says:
well look at it this way. We'll take you in with open arms....later.
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
hmmm???
Whomp says:
refugee
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well were curious what your hoping to gain now from this war after you've got your GA
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
even if you were to land more units we're avaerage with you on military and have a better UU in terms of attack
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
*average
Whomp says:
what's your unit support?
Whomp says:

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
5
Whomp says:
5gpt?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
sure
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
whats yours?
Whomp says:
I don't think we have any
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
thats pretty special in republic
Whomp says:
so is war wariness
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we havnt got any of that yet
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
dont think
Whomp says:
if it kicks in for us we'll switch to monarchy
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i dunno if we'll bother early on, is quite a long time
Whomp says:
you can't afford the anarchy
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
pretty much
Whomp says:
pretty much you're a republic so let us know when it gets painful on the lux slider. maybe we can negotiate something...maybe we can't
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well that isnt going to happen for awhile
Whomp says:
fine
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we do have extensive trade routes
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and luxs
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and smaller cities
Whomp says:
doesn't help unit support to be small
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
howd you mean?
Whomp says:
the bigger the more unit support
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer but wasting a couple of gold per city on unit support is better than spending it on lux's
Tubby Rower says:
then you don't have the luxes you claim
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
ok
Whomp says:
and infrastructure can't be built
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
why not?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so what are you lot hoping to accomplish from this war? realistically i cant see you destroying us

Whomp has left the conversation.

Tubby Rower says:
well you have asked this for the past few days
Tubby Rower says:
why should we offer our game strategy when you have fed us non-truths?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
non truths?
Tubby Rower says:
5gpt unit support?
Tubby Rower says:
no way
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well i cant go telling you that
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
am i even allowed in the rules?
Tubby Rower says:
sure as long as your team allows you to
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well i figured you would notice i was joking with the 5gpt instantly
Tubby Rower says:
I figured but why are you expecting us to be honest with you about strategy?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and i dont really think my team is going to let you share the size of our army with the people invading us
Tubby Rower says:

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
plus the longer this war goes on, the less i do as ambassador
Tubby Rower says:
I'm not sure what I can tell you that would help things
Tubby Rower says:
it sounds like no one is listening anyway

Whomp has been added to the conversation.

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
in TNT or in general?

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we do have extensive trade routes
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and luxs
One more reason for going north and whack those costals.

i'm with you 100% on that Daghie(another dagger to MIA as well). I think if we cut off those coastals they are d.o.n.e. done. We have the time to be patient in this process so there's no reason to be in a hurry but get the job done properly.

i'm with you 100% on that Daghie(another dagger to MIA as well). I think if we cut off those coastals they are d.o.n.e. done. We have the time to be patient in this process so there's no reason to be in a hurry but get the job done properly.

Thatta boy, Whompster. Patience and persistence.

Remember that the trade route runs from capitol to capitol. If we go along the coast we may have to slice thirty tiles, plus those through Donutia while they are at peace. If we stay close to the capitol, we onlu have to slice nine.

Scout - I'll play the turn if you want me to.

Simon seems open to peace... Whomp & I told him that we could accept peace for a plot of land along the coast. I made sure to mention that we would continue the war until the peace treaty is signed.

Apparently Dinsog's suggestion of peace terms is to allow us to leave :lol: . I literally laughed out loud at that one. Also some of their guys had no clue that foreign workers would work at 1/2 speed. :D

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so what do you lot actually want with the remainder of this war/
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
?
Tubby Rower says:
some respect...

Whomp has been added to the conversation.

Tubby Rower says:
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so what do you lot actually want with the remainder of this war/
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
?
Tubby Rower says:
some respect...

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
ok this convo
Tubby Rower says:
yes
Whomp says:

Tubby Rower says:
Whomp you there ?
Tubby Rower says:
allowing us to leave is not a peace proposal
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well i know that
Tubby Rower says:
I was just stating it in case you wanted to take it back to your team
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i didnt
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
that was something someone on my team came up with
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i was telling you about it before
Tubby Rower says:
oh ok... another joke.
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
no
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
donsig genuinly proposed that
Whomp says:
well at least you have mia picking up your science for you
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we dont have that either
Tubby Rower says:
Dinsog really thought that would be suitable to us?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
erm yup, that and we should be compensated
Whomp says:
hehe
Tubby Rower says:
hmm.. Germany didn't have that option in WW2
Tubby Rower says:
Japan was rebuilt because the USA felt bad about the nuke
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
the west was
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so anyways
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
what are you wanting
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
just ive got my driving test tomorrow so ill be going to bed soon
Whomp says:
one of the first things i've read so far is 2 cities and a carve out on the continent
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer can tell you immediatly your not going to be getting any cities anytime soon
Whomp says:
ok then start building some boats
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
think we are
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
not too sure what were building
Tubby Rower says:
that might need to be required reading
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well i know the jist of whats being built
Whomp says:
boats may take a long time considering the size of your coastal cities
Whomp says:
and not building immortals or pikes or settlers or workers or or or
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
hmm???
Whomp says:
your coastals cities focusing on galleys will make for even more difficult times ahead
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
why?
Whomp says:
because you can only build one thing at a time
Tubby Rower says:
land units might be needed
Whomp says:
3 small coastal cities doesn't make for much of a navy
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer, we've worked out a battle plan
Whomp says:
ok that's good
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and we've only got 2 coastal cities
Whomp says:
right one burned
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yup
Whomp says:
2 coastal cities...one size...what 4?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
5 or 6
Whomp says:
and the other size 3 or 4?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
think so
Whomp says:
on a river?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
errr
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
not sure
Whomp says:
you don't have to answer we know
Whomp says:
brb
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
oh ok
Tubby Rower says:
so basically you guys want us to leave and we want to stay
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
pretty much
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
plus we dont have enough cities just to be giving them away now
Whomp says:
well all the more reason why you'd want to give us land
Whomp says:
that's really what we want
Tubby Rower says:
we could draw a line in the sand (via text directions) and we have rights to that land and you guys could have rights to the other side
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so what your wanting is a foothold?
Tubby Rower says:
no just land
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
on our continent, right next to our capital would count as a foothold really
Whomp says:
we can take a slice along the coast
Whomp says:
up and down
Tubby Rower says:
we won't break a treaty
Tubby Rower says:
look at the SG's we play
Tubby Rower says:
we don't break them against the AI.
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
k well i dont mind giving you the land so long as we have a proper treaty and everything drawn up but thats just me
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i have no idea what everyone else thinks
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
draw up what you want and ill see what they say
Tubby Rower says:
we can work up a first proposal, but keep in mind that we will continue to prosecute this war until peace is signed.
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
as will we
Tubby Rower says:
excellent
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
anyways i want some diplomasising to do so send it
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
but unless theres anything else i best be off
Whomp says:
we will have our mapmakers get something together
Tubby Rower says:
ok good luck wiht the test tomorrow
Whomp says:
see ya simon
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
got test tomorrow and im a pretty bad driver as it is
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
cheers
Tubby Rower says:

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
night all
Tubby Rower says:
nite
Whomp says:
left foot clutch
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
thanks whomp
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:

Whomp says:


jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever has left the conversation.

Tubby Rower says:
it might be opposite in England

Whomp says:
left foot clutch
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
thanks whomp
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:

Whomp says:


jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever has left the conversation.

Tubby Rower says:
it might be opposite in England[/spoiler]

:rotfl:

Sometimes I wish I liked MSm...

Tubs, you're the best.

Scout - I'll play the turn if you want me to.If you'd like to be the team's turnplayer for a bit, I'll gladly step aside and let you have a go at it. :hatsoff:

I think it can only help us to have someone else put their eyes on it in actual play.

City management things to think about: Jesterton will complete its market this turn, and is working a mined iron hill that could be shared with SKWTD. There are lots of tile-swapping opportunities between SKWTD, Gilfach, and Knucklehead.

Effing Whomping Rower will complete a worker next turn if the queue isn't set to walls or something. That will affect the 2 scientists I hired there...in turn affecting the research cycle.

Oh yeah - don't forget to put some short-rush shields into a Trebuchet or two. If we can complete 1 Treb per turn over the next 40 turns... MIA will rue the day they pick a fight with us.

OK then. I have it. I will play and post shortly.

Any ship chaining things I need to think about?

Any ship chaining things I need to think about?You should be able to put your choice of a trebuchet/Gallic or Pike/Settler in Spite if you decide to found it this turn...

Most of the ships are a little bit out of position for good ship chaining... since I did so much shuffling to get a settler out of Dionysus and onto The Other Continent last turn.

You might want to consider swinging a Galley up our north coast to run settlers to the jungle coast in the west...

thank goodness i read this, i was starting to look at the save to play :lol: go get'em bugs :hammer:

oh, and looking at the save, one thing I would like to add is that the roads thru the jungle need choke points with barracades on them. otherwise, if MIA captures a town, they will have all the jungle roaded for them and can get thru to our core no problem. throw up so barracades at key points and move the excess workers back to the core/fp core. the war with TNT looks like we're in for some classic back-n-forth. could be touch-n-go for a bit here :)

I got this message from BCLG today. :confused:
Do we want to give them some lines of demarcation?

hey,

TNT recieved a peace treaty today from KISS however it wasnt accepted and had nothing on, so did you mean to send that and also have you got what you want written up yet?

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/805/image21wi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Since Whomp is busy dealing with my swarm of workers in the mega-pitboss, I decided to make up this map for critique. I think that it's fair, considering that they want us to leave and we don't :lol:

In words that would be
Starting east of Grenadopolis KISS gets
1S of the fish
1SW Ivory tile
1S grass tile
1SW forest tile
1SE grass tile
1S forest tile
1SW grass tile
1SE grass tile
1 S grass tile
1 SE ivory tile
Discuss thoughts on this and ending the war...

Chivalry? It seems BCLG would like to propose chivalry but no land. They may get theo from MIA reasonably soon though. Thoughts? This would go down as the shortest PBEM war in the history of PBEMs. :cool:
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
will KISS have peace for chivalry?
Whomp says:
you'll give us chivalry?
Whomp says:
and land?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
no just the chivalry part
Igor says:
what about the wenches?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we can dress provo up
Whomp says:
i can propose it..
Igor says:
that kills the deal
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
lol so not provo thne
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
*then
Whomp says:
ok so no land but chivalry..hmm
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well yup
Igor says:
I need lux for my headache
Whomp says:
furs?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i dont honestly think we have any of them
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i can check
Whomp says:
we wiped them out
Igor says:
wenches aren't a lux?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
oh ok, well were all ready to resettle
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
erm dont think so
Igor says:
damn

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
oh ok, well were all ready to resettle

What in the world.. They are just holding settlers? I told Whomp, that MIA has both Chivalry and Theology . I'd be fine with two of the following for peace.

1. undisputed land rights
2. Chivalry
3. Theology

They're feeling cocky right now. They've got pikes that will cover their immortals against Gallic Swords... but if we can get some trebs into the action to wear down those pikes... and if we can get that combined arms force into a town (where their pikes can't heal) we will wear them down.

How sure are we that the Scientifics have Chivarly?

I guess if we're considering it we could simply have them send it with a peace agreement. Question is do we want it or do we want more? I presume the worker is there so they can road into us. Should we ask for an extension to discuss?

Even in the best case scenario for peace, all we get is three cities max, a military tech we can't use for 40+ turns unless we attack the Nuts (which I am NOT proposing) and theology.

Besides, if they are holding settlers the unrestricted land rights won't help us much, they would fill it up.

Unless it is going to weaken us to the point of not being able to take on MIA, I am for sticking with the TNT war a bit longer.

They have not yet felt the wrath of the pillaging GS. Plus, with three pikes and a few trebs, we could secure a city on their continent, rush a rax and upgrade the GS after their pillaging is done. A core of about a dozen MI by the time we are done is a nice addition to any MA combined arms.

Besides, war sells newspapers :D

Sincerely,

William Randolf Hearst (aka KB)

How sure are we that the Scientifics have Chivarly?
VERY SURE.. I opened the save in CA2 and MIA does have it. It can only be assumed that TNT does as well since their hoplites are in bed with TNT's wenches....bad picture I know but it drives the point home

We need neither of those techs to meet our objective of early Cavalry. Sure knights are a cheap upgrade but it is because they are expensive to begin with. Maces are the better buy all the way around.

Keep stiffening the expeditionary force and wait for TNT to commit themselves to the fatal blunder....then straight for the capitol with everything we can muster.

If they have chivalry, that makes their latest move make more sense. They are going to set up a colony on the horses, build some knights and come after us that way.

Better get pikes and trebs.

And/or some Mounted Warriors screaming up from the south might be nice. Have we discussed with the Nuts that possibility?

So are we still talking with TNT?

At the moment they probably won't give us any concessions for peace. We might want to offer them a steep price for peace. Say something like:

- Peace for 50 turns.
- TNT cannot settle east of any of their present cities
- They have to give us their next three techs that they research or receive on the upper tree.
- They are not allowed to research on the lower tree for the 50 turns.

@Bugs: I have no idea if anyone is talking to TNT. Most of the stuff I've read indicates this will be a fight to the death. 'sno biggie to me. Let 'em come with Knights... combined arms will carry this day.

I seriously hope they come after us at the soon-to-be-founded town of Spite. It will be their undoing.

I can send that.. I've been talking to BCLG100 about other stuff as of late. But I can bring up the war if you guys want me to. Just let me know and I'll PM him your proposal.

After all their first peace terms was that they let us leave :lol:

Fawlty Towers sketch

Don't mention the war !!!

I was confused for a minute and was about to post that your sketch didn't show up. Then I was confused again and saw things more clearly after my second cup of coffee.

Apparently TNT is resettling already. I'll post my conversation with Simon (BCLG100) when we are done.

here is most of our conversation... it trailed off into talking about civ4 and poker
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
hey, so where you plannning on dumping that settler?
Tubby Rower says:
what settler?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
from KISS
Tubby Rower says:
oh... don't know yet.. .he's jsut on a tour
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well i know a nice little spot
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
but it means you have to get back on your boat
Tubby Rower says:

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
and back to where it came from
Tubby Rower says:

Tubby Rower says:
we had a suggestion for peace terms
Tubby Rower says:
you wanna hear it?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
.... do i
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
or is it just not gonna happen terms
Tubby Rower says:
1. Peace for 50 turns.
2. TNT cannot settle east of any of their present cities
3. TNT has to give KISS their next three techs that they research or receive on the upper tree
4. TNT is not allowed to research on the lower tree for the 50 turns.
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
errrr
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
cant really see any agreement to that
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
maybe one of the points but not all
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well 2, the peace one and another one
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
but number 4 is out
Tubby Rower says:
which other one?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
we cant get a military for 50 turns so in 50 turns when peace is over you can just walk right in
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i dunno, number 3 perhaps?
Tubby Rower says:
ok.. understandable
Tubby Rower says:
what about 2?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
hmmm
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well depends when the treaty is signed
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
you'll see when you open up the save
Tubby Rower says:
oh. is it to us?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
errr
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
not sure, think so
Tubby Rower says:
no 125 in our box yet
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i think we've finished
Tubby Rower says:
must be in MIA's hands
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
ah ok
Tubby Rower says:
we'll prolly get it tonite
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well you'll see anyways that we're resettling the area already
Tubby Rower says:
ok....more artifacts?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
so you could see the save and then see if you really want to do number 2 is it?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
no these ones'll be defended
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i'll post your 4 things though
Tubby Rower says:
ok... well it sounds like we are making progress
Tubby Rower says:
My HT game is starting
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
cool gl
Tubby Rower says:
thanks
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
i might not watch, kinda need an early night tonight
Tubby Rower says:
that's fine.
Tubby Rower says:
I need to head to bed early too but it's only 7 here
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer, hows your wife doing? its getting closer to the date isnt it?
Tubby Rower says:
yup the due date is this coming Monday
Tubby Rower says:
she's REALLY miserable and big
Tubby Rower says:
hauling all of that weight in your stomach is painful
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well i can only imagine, least it'll be over soon
Tubby Rower says:
hopefully.
Tubby Rower says:
it could go on for another 2.5 weeks
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
still nearing an end
Tubby Rower says:
yup, but it seems like she'll be like this forever
Tubby Rower says:
she's cute pregnant and all but she's miserable and I can't do anything to help
Tubby Rower says:

jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
well i cant really relate but so long as your there for her, that should be enough
Tubby Rower says:
yeah but it's frustrating... plus we just buried her grandmother today
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
oh, not good
Tubby Rower says:
it was sort of expected but you can never be prepared for that
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
yer 2 of my grandparents are dead, both after being in hospital for a few days but you never see it coming
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
anyways, on lighter topics, if youve got 50 turns with us and about 40 with MIA
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
what are you gonna do with the nutters?
Tubby Rower says:
hmm.. don't know.. we'll entertain ourselves somehow
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, whatever says:
lol ok

My condolences to Mrs. Rower on her loss. Even when it is expected it is hard.

Sounds like they are up for a discussion of peace terms. I'm sure they settled directly on the horses. Do we know whether they have chivialry yet or not?

If they settled, they probably aren't going to be attacking Spite anytime soon. That will give Scout more time build up some defenses.

Maybe it is time for a sneak attack on the opposite coast. :devil:

Ok the save is in our InBox I opened it up to see the new city, but there is no new city. Their stack is growing a tad. It is now located 1 NE of the horses.

Stack composition (total = 14)
2 workers
5 vet pikes
2 reg pikes
1 elite Immo
1 vet Immo
3 reg Immo


As far as research goes. CA2 is reporting their techs so I'm assuming that it is accurate. Only Greece knows Theology and Chivlary.

Stack composition (total = 14)
2 workers
5 vet pikes
2 reg pikes
1 elite Immo
1 vet Immo
3 reg Immo
I just sent an e-mail to TNT and the game admins. One of those units is listed as "Farhad (0.0.1)". That might be a settler, not a worker. I asked for clarification.

it's a worker... in CA2 it doesn't look at the custom names. it just says worker twice. I just double checked and there is no settler in that stack.

is that TNT stack on grass? If so, there's not much difference in GS vs Pike than Horseman vs Spear. If we have enough GS's in the area and they're not on a hill, I say we take a shot at it.

yes they are on grass. here is a pic of the position and the combat calc from CA2. It looks like we have a 75% chance of survival vs the 3 pikes if we use the elites

Sorry, I'm not very familiar with CA2 and the screen. Is that all the GS's we have (qty 9)?

in the combat calc there... that's all of the military that we have within striking distance. So currently we only have 9 GS that can reach the stack.

we really need more trebs over there so that we can knock some hps off. Once we build spite I'd expect that they would come straight for it next turn. Then we can heal in the barracks (that should be rushed while pinging them with the treb. too bad we only have 1 over there :(

@G-man: If it wasn't for the Immortals I might take a shot at 'em this turn... but what I don't want to do is strand a bunch of wounded Gallics next to a stack of healthy Immortals.

My current thinking: When their units stepped out of the fog, they saw one pike on the hill, and a handful of Gallic Swordsmen. They can't see the other pike behind the hill, and they probably won't anticipate me rushing another pike in Spite as soon as it's founded.

I'm hoping they come right at Spite, and attack the town with the immortals... this will give me a little more leeway to go after their stack.

My current thinking: When their units stepped out of the fog, they saw one pike on the hill, and a handful of Gallic Swordsmen. They can't see the other pike behind the hill, and they probably won't anticipate me rushing another pike in Spite as soon as it's founded.


you are an evil man. but that's a good thingy.

OT, whomp appears to have no hair! old, gay, or fashion clueless (not that there's anything wrong with any of those)? whoelse has issues?

you are an evil man. but that's a good thingy.

OT, whomp appears to have no hair! old, gay, or fashion clueless (not that there's anything wrong with any of those)? whoelse has issues?We all have issues... but you have Igor.

In other news, I just played. Dispatches in a moment.

I think let them come is a better way of a frontal attack, and what will we rush in Spite? walls?barracks?

the problem of a frontal attack will be the Imortals counter strike i guess.

Scout is right. Let their stack get right next to Spite, then we can have some fun. :devil:

In case you didn't see this in the Donut thread. Very interesting read.

Robi conversation (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3997465&postcount=329)

That is great intel Whomper. Robi's experience dovetails with ours. We need to do some brainstorming on an attack plan.

That is some awesome intel!

I'm going to be thinking about this game all day...

Several have suggested an amphibious assault on their iron city. I'd like to make that assault force 6-8 longbows and 2 Pikes... landed one turn after a thrust to their center (which I hope will draw any reserve away from their iron city). Robi's suggestions on an eastern maneuver are well worth considering. I'm glad I've got another boat in the queue.

I like that combination of units for a landing force.

I have to say that I have some reservations following someone else's campaign strategy. It isn't that I don't trust that person's military mind. I don't like putting the safety of our troops into the honorableness of another team. I realize that Donuts leaking our plan to TNT is highly unlikely, but there is that wee small voice of doubt and mistrust. I would hate to place our troops into a trap.

I need to map out Robi's campaign strategy.

I need to map out Robi's campaign strategy.Between his skirmishing tactics v. TNT and his intricate logistical ideas... some on our team might find it a bit disconcerting to know who this guy reminds me of...

But it doesn't matter. I'm not going to split our forces more than once. And I'm not going to split them at all until we have Ivory in our posession.

Dispatches in a moment.

Between his skirmishing tactics v. TNT and his intricate logistical ideas... some on our team might find it a bit disconcerting to know who this guy reminds me of.....
ideas? IDEAS??? Who could you possibly mean? :hmm:

:p

But it doesn't matter. I'm not going to split our forces more than once. And I'm not going to split them at all until we have Ivory in our posession.

Splitting the force 3x is highly risky. Also, I think our initial thought to land near Carpetbomb in the N is just fine, without the excursion to the Jungle. In fact, we should get Donuts to handle the jungle work if they're interested (gets them more luxes too, so they should be).

@Bugs: when you draw out Donut's plan, also draw out ours. I do believe that the single landing will be a safer bet. One thing we could do, is make TNT believe that we are, in fact, going to try a frontal assault 1 or 2T before the landing. If we sell it hard enough, that landing force should be in pretty good shape. If we're lucky, that frontal assault may even accomplish something :)

I agree... only land up north. Us going to the south would duplicate any efforts that they would be doing. It sounds like D'nut is going to build up for 20 turns and then attack with us.

So just Carpetbomb + Iron town would be sufficient IMO

I agree... only land up north. Us going to the south would duplicate any efforts that they would be doing. It sounds like D'nut is going to build up for 20 turns and then attack with us.

So just Carpetbomb + Iron town would be sufficient IMO

I'd attack indeed it if I were them... in the end it's 'their' continent after all.

I asked BCLG100 if he had seen the MIA galleys coming up their west coast... he didn't respond. I hope he took it seriously. :)

I saw this post this morning and wanted to come back to it.Splitting the force 3x is highly risky. ...I couldn't agree more.
...we could...make TNT believe that we are... going to try a frontal assault 1 or 2T before the landing. If we sell it hard enough, that landing force should be in pretty good shape. If we're lucky, that frontal assault may even accomplish something :)I like this, and will draw up a plan based on this concept... Only I'd rather design that frontal assault to accomplish something. Like put Dancing Banana to the torch.

I'll probably post a scheme of maneuver in the "military headquarters" thread.

Fully garee on focusing on the northern part. We take whatever we can get up there until Nutters are ready to jump in (20?). Then we make peace and let them get some of the jungle. They get luxes, we get specialist farms + ivory. TNT gets busted :hammer:.

Here's an excerpt from a chat between Whomp, AK, and Simon from TNT. Hopefully I didn't leave anything in that'll get me banned. :crazyeye:
Igor says:
whomp says i'm cluesless
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
whomp says a lot though
Igor says:
i have dial up so I'm gun shy
Whomp says:
not clueless..but cluechallenged
Igor says:
issues
Whomp says:
that too
<snip>
jack, which MTDG team are you on?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
for 3 or 4?
Igor says:
3
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
tnt
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
one of the few
Igor says:
what was up with that last SoD?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
(censored) knows
Igor says:
you didn't help plan that?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
well i helped plan but i thought our second one was going in at the same time
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
one after the other is just plain stupid
Igor says:
(censored) happens
Igor says:
provo's not still around is he?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
nop, disappeared when i turned up
Igor says:
I have a special relationship with him
Igor says:
gets me banned alot
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
lol
<snipped, and censored>
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
the latest plan from him was to build settlers send them over to the eastern side of our empire, settle cities and then build defenders
Igor says:
do u guys vote on positions?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
errrr
Igor says:
aren
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
not really
Igor says:
t we on the eastern side of your empire?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
theres only like 3 regular posters
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
yep
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
thats how good his idea was
Igor says:
maybe u could send some pikes. is tim still active?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
every now and then
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
its mainly me, greekguy and donsig
Igor says:
have u ever played an sg with tim?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
but we just shout loudly at each other in the hope something gets done
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
nope but apparantly hes good
Igor says:
yes, but i'm an idiot. do you understand the whole idiot thing?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
well your an idiot
Igor says:
no, I founded idiocy
Igor says:
its a philosophy amongst kiss
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
well im in your group in the civ4 demogame
Igor says:
ask whomp or tubs to explain. I stay away from all but the MTDG for the most part cause I can't seem to suffer morons.
Igor says:
not you
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
lol, dont mine
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
*mind
Igor says:
I get mad and make evil posts
Igor says:
then rik bans me for a week
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
well the overwhelming response from the battle logs is just astounding
Igor says:
we liked it
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
i meant from my fellow team members after posting it
Igor says:
panic in dinsog's diapers
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
btw, is that settler you have lying around coming over here as well?
Igor says:
finally my brain kicks in. tesla. signs
Igor says:
thats what your sig has been reminding me of
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
my sig?
Igor says:
now and then...
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
oh right k
Igor says:
and yes the settler is going to visit
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
k doke
Whomp says:
which one?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
quicker you annihilate us the quicker i can stop contributing to TNT's forum
Igor says:
all four
Igor says:
with supporting forces
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
k good luck with that
Igor says:
send more pikes
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
im thinkin warriors
Whomp says:
Simon we'll take you in
Whomp says:
we're fun
Whomp says:
and nutty
Igor says:
hehe
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
gonna go and start another team bonding exercise in TNT
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
you'll see it fail miserably when you can see the forum
Igor says:
have fun. tell dinsog that I think he never had a mother and reproduced by fission (ie he's a lawyer)
Igor says:
later
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, now and then when i see her face she takes me away to that special place says:
oh ok

That's interesting two SODs. Sounds like TNT is in complete turmoil. The second amphibious landing should send them into major panic. They will probably shift some defenders east to fill the void left by their loses.

Scout - how far are we away from the second landing? We need to give them at least two turns to bring more victims east.

Scout - how far are we away from the second landing? We need to give them at least two turns to bring more victims east.I worked out what I could, and posted it in "Military Headquarters" a moment ago. Have a look and let me know what you think.

Sounds like TNT is in complete turmoil.
Has anybody else noticed that two new people have very recently requested to be added to Team TNT? I don't recognize either of their names. Anyone else know them?

Guess I'm wondering if they've called in a couple of good warmongers from another board or people from before I joined CFC to help Donsig out. :hmm:

I recognize donovan zoi's name, but I have no idea if he's a good player or not. the other I don't recognize at all.

Zoi is a veteran demo-gamer, don't know about his playing skills. He's very much into constitutions, legislation and such, i.e the typical TNT-er :D

Zoi is a veteran demo-gamer, don't know about his playing skills. He's very much into constitutions, legislation and such, i.e the typical TNT-er :DLet's put it this way. He was losing to Donsig in their cagematch PBEM and has been badgered by Donsig to play his turn for months. IMO he seems like a nice enough guy who will simply be Dinsog's "yes" man.

Donovan Zoi was the Demo-Game Moderator before me.

Donovan Zoi was the Demo-Game Moderator before me.
You mean the world actually existed before Meleet??? :eek:

You mean the world actually existed before Meleet??? :eek:
When you are the all-powerful Meleet, you can create time and history going forward and backwards. He knows exactly what will happen and allows us morals to live out our simple CIVilized lives.

Zoi is a veteran demo-gamer, don't know about his playing skills. He's very much into constitutions, legislation and such, i.e the typical TNT-er mini me dinsog?

mini me dinsog?
Bah!! There's gotta be a story in there somewhere.

Hey Booti...any clues on a story for the cluechallenged?

Hey Booti...any clues on a story for the cluechallenged?

Sorry my Leige, I have been at a conference where internet access was spotty (that is being kind) so I am furiously catching up on posts, preparing for that most sacred of ecclesiastical holidays - Mother's Day - and a wedding.

I will try to wrack my brain before I get racked.

A chat with Simon of TNT fame. Not much besides they're Beggin' for peace :lol:
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
so how's things in Persia?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
they've been better
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
too bad you wasn't on in the early game
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
me?
scoutsout säger:
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
I take it things were very merry at your end then
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
yes you, you came in when Provo left right?
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
pretty much the exact day
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
i'd be a DL if i wasnt so much cooler
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
just what i was about to post
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
lol
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
so the big whigs told me to ask about peace, do you want it in KISS? and if so what for?
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
the big whigs...lol. Well, it might be that we are having too much fun to stop just yet
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
but prolonged wars are bad in general
scoutsout säger:
Well... there are some among us that rather enjoy the upper hand we gained after that last battle...
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
yer stupid big whig doing it that way
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
ive been 'authorised' by the afor mentioned big whig to say we are 'a little war weary'
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
we might just take you beyond the point of No Fun, and then offer you to defect, hehe
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
nah i'll play to a 1CC
scoutsout säger:
Defecting isn't allowed.... joining another team is only possible after the team members have become 'refugees'.
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
what have you not been authorized to say is what I'm interested in
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
meh im a big whig i can say what i want!
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
the difference btw us is that you lot started hammering on day one. we were just builders back then so we are just starting to appreciate the hell of it
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
yer well you got a nice little civ on your continent, go to war with them
scoutsout säger:
Well... for what it's worth, I respect the fact that TNT no longer expects us to abandon our position.
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
too be honest Simon, we could discuss peace but I'm afraid we are not going to find an understanding on the peace terms
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
how do you mean?
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
we are in the driver seat is my guess
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
and you don't want to be taken for a ride
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
yer but if you tell me what you want then i can post it in the forum and we can whinge and ***** about it for a week or so and then finally accept it
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
I won't make some offer on my own here, but I will of course post in our forum that you are eager to make peace
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
sure as long as the word 'eager' doesnt change to 'begging' in transition
scoutsout säger:
We wouldn't do something like that... unless you offered us something like... Semtex.
Drummer boy, right?......Yes! säger:
expect some cities to be demanded if it comes to that. Is "desperate" OK, haha
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
well we're not going to give up cities but whomp mentioned something about the land east of the cities we already have awhile back
jack the lad (Seth){Care Bear}, 11 days left.... säger:
and do you really want semtex, with its awesome MoM????
scoutsout säger:
Well... I think you guys re-settled one of those spots already...

A chat with Simon of TNT fame. Not much besides they're Beggin' for peace :lol:I thought we told him that we wouldn't change their wording to "begging"? :hammer:

Well let's make him an offer.

1. No aggression from TNT towards any civ for 50 turns.

2. We need at least one city from them. Perferably that one they just settled.

3. Any and all techs they are up on us, no matter how many tiers up (I'm thinking maybe education here)

4. They can't settle east of any city they now own.

We would also want to involve donuts in these negotiations. They are getting pumped up to join the war.

What do we have to gain from peace with TNT? I thought we were trying to cripple MIA via crippling TNT. Also, I want to take a shot with the landing :cry:

The winds of war have changed everything. What I said was then was then and ancient history with no offers. Now they will get nothing and like it. Cripple them Gman.

We want Semtex for MoM and its potential commie rushing capability amongst all the other benefits.

I told Simon that I'll bring in their peace request just to be polite. I have no intention offering them anything that they might accept.
Saying we will chase 'em down to the last Immo isn't good either because that info is likely to be passed to MIA.

maybe sounds of silence

What do we have to gain from peace with TNT? I thought we were trying to cripple MIA via crippling TNT. Also, I want to take a shot with the landing :cry:I want to see you take that shot with the landing too, G-man. It was your idea, and I worked to put the pieces in place to make it happen. I want to see you 'finish the drill' on TNT.

Having the G-man play the turns is great in my opinion. Both G-Man and Scout are incredibly capable and it will just raise enough questions with the other teams about how our government works. And whether we are having internal problems. I'll tell you what, this anarchy stuff is something that should be tried in demogames more often.

I would really like to see some disinformation spread. How about an article in our paper about great arguments in the Pentagon. Scout and Bugsy are fighting over tactics and strategy. G-man and Slinger decide that enough is enough and have blocked access to the e-mail account. Bugsy and Scout are pissed and are threatening to leave the team. that kind of stuff. Remember that it needs to be believable.

I would really like to see some disinformation spread. How about an article in our paper about great arguments in the Pentagon. Scout and Bugsy are fighting over tactics and strategy. G-man and Slinger decide that enough is enough and have blocked access to the e-mail account. Bugsy and Scout are pissed and are threatening to leave the team. that kind of stuff. Remember that it needs to be believable.

ooo that's evil :lol: I think that peace was being discussed in earnest before 1) the TNT "SoD" was killed and 2) D'nuts got involved. At that time, we had at least 3 of their cities as rubble and were just starting to transport settlers. We didn't have sufficient defense I don't think at the time and were really giving them unreasonable peace terms then. Now the peace terms we should offer should be all cities excluding their capital

:lol: and I'm evil ? :lol: Tubby you are too funny.

:lol: and I'm evil ? :lol: Tubby you are too funny.Yeah ....what he said... I dunno if we're rubbing off on some of these guys...or just bringing out the worst in 'em. There does appear to be an epidemic of grumpiness around here. :p

Yeah ....what he said... I dunno if we're rubbing off on some of these guys...or just bringing out the worst in 'em. There does appear to be an epidemic of grumpiness around here. :p You speak for yourself. I'm NOT grumpy, and besides, I run this sorry excuse for a team and I will say who is grumpy or not.

You speak for yourself. I'm NOT grumpy, and besides, I run this sorry excuse for a team and I will say who is grumpy or not.

And in my opinion, you always SHOULD have run KISS. Daghdha is good. Daghda is wise. All Hail POTKISS Daghdha!:worship: :worship: :worship:

Very sincerely,

KickBooti - Toady-in-Chief
;)

Booti lies like a rug. He gave me the :love: smiley and I returned the :cry: smiley.

I will stay "idiot". AK and I have work to do....we've already raided Scout's humidor without him knowing and if you look at our current locations we've snuck up on Bugsy without him being aware.

Hey Whomp, no matter what happens in the forum, you'll always be POTKISS to me :love:

Anyway, I've got a couple ideas in the hopper for stories, but I, quite litterally, don't know how to put a paper to press.

I know RL is busy for Mistfit, is there anyone else that can do it? I thought Dag might have the skills?

Just let me know.

KB

PS - I think that I knew you and Holly were getting married, but I saw reference to it today. When is the happy event? I'm in full metal matrimonial mode with a big ceremony this weekend, just gets the curiosity running.

Besides, depending on the timing, it may be worth a story...

I bet Daghie could do it and I'd bet Mistfit just needs to be reminded. I'd send him a pm to tell him we're ready and MIA is leading in circulation.

As far as Potkiss goes if it freaks other teams out I'm all for it! :D

Holly and I haven't set a date yet. I think it will be sometime next year so a long engagement.

If I haven't told you lately....I love you, man. :cry:

Seriously it's great to have you with us.

Booti lies like a rug.

How do you think I got my job a journalist for the Crazy Eye?

And I never did tell anyone, but KickBooti sounded better than my original screen name - Obsequious Maximus :D

Here is the latest peace offer from Simon the Diplomat of the century from TNT

Bonjour You Idiots

Shall we sign a peace treaty and bring an end to this war? or shall we carry on fighting? We can of course do either however maybe the 2 strongest teams shouldnt be fighting each other into a pointless stalemate?

Theres been a few things tossed around during our exstensive negotiations on msn, both parties being equally distracted by other things:civ4, pitboss, hattrick, tv, wine tasting???? so what came from you was a few things. Heres what we're offering, mull them over if you want.

1-Peace with you for 30 turns
2-We'll give you every tech we research for the next 20 turns
3-We'll stay even with you militarily
4-No action shall be taken against existing cities on the east coast of yours and the land there shall become up for grabs for whoever gets a settler there first.

Get back to us when you've come to an answer, want to renegotiate or just want to give me something to do

Yours
BCLG-the coolest guy i know

I barely had it in me to not laugh in his face :lol:

Found a picture of some of Whomps friends. Ain't they hadnsome?
http://files.tagworld.com/7cf862757474657262616c6c32-100x100.jpeg
BB