Diplo for D'nut [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Tubby Rower

Oct 11, 2005, 09:08 PM

We're basically doing a tech swap with the nuttersRobi D says:
yes, once you have writing if your happy to we can do a CoL + Philo for IW + WC + CB + Myst
That's 480 beakers to 405 beakers in our favor... Sure they got 300 of those free but we can't help that or change it.

Then we can go straight for Republic 840 beakers away.

Robi D says:
how are you tubby rower
Tubby Rower says:
I'm fine
Tubby Rower says:
And you?
Robi D says:
not too bad
Tubby Rower says:
How is life in Doughnutia?
Robi D says:
pretty busy, how are you all doing there in KISS
Tubby Rower says:
well thank you.
Robi D says:
good to hear
Tubby Rower says:
Can I add someone
Robi D says:
sure
Tubby Rower says:
DaveShack is away but feel free to add him

admiral kutzov has been added to the conversation.

Tubby Rower says:
This is our naval commander
Robi D says:
i've sent him a meesage
Tubby Rower says:
Admiral Kutzov
admiral kutzov says:
greetings and salutations
Tubby Rower says:
AK, this is Robi
Robi D says:
greeting AK
admiral kutzov says:
I've promised tubs I'll behave
Robi D says:
hows the kiss fleet going
admiral kutzov says:
ginger and maryann have promised to let the professor live
Robi D says:
lol
admiral kutzov says:
R, do u understand igor?
Robi D says:
well we should get down to buisness, do you guys have alphabet
Tubby Rower says:
yes
Robi D says:
pottery?
Tubby Rower says:
yup
admiral kutzov says:
yes bidness
Tubby Rower says:
do you have the Wheel?
Robi D says:
hmm, writing
Robi D says:
no, we dont have wheel
Tubby Rower says:
uh uh... tit for tat
Tubby Rower says:
how about WC?
Robi D says:
no
Tubby Rower says:
Writing will be ours ifew turns
Robi D says:
ok
admiral kutzov says:
if tubs could type
Tubby Rower says:
i cna tpye
Tubby Rower says:

Robi D says:
do you have IW
admiral kutzov says:
no we are not the evil empire
Tubby Rower says:
yes we have IW
admiral kutzov says:
we do\?
Tubby Rower says:
yup
admiral kutzov says:
i missed that my bad
admiral kutzov says:
we're still not evil
Robi D says:
ok, i'll be back in a minute i just need to check something
Tubby Rower says:
What is it that you guys need?
Robi D says:
sorry, thanks for being patient, it a bit hard to trade atm since you guys need to have writing for CoL, but would a trade along the lines of Col for IW + WC be of interest
Robi D says:
we will have wheel in a couple of turns
Tubby Rower says:
hang on a minute
Tubby Rower says:
let me look
Robi D says:
no probs
Tubby Rower says:
how far past writing are you guys?
admiral kutzov says:
R, as a simple warmonger, embroiled in this diplo stuff, it helps if I know a little about u. quid pro qou?
Robi D says:
we have philo and CoL atm
Robi D says:
what do you need to know AM
admiral kutzov says:
native land?
admiral kutzov says:
in RL
Robi D says:
australia
Robi D says:
you?
admiral kutzov says:
OMG an OZ!
admiral kutzov says:
US
Tubby Rower says:
I'm from eastern US as well
admiral kutzov says:
rednecks and hillbillies
Robi D says:
lol, the time zone can be difficult for us, being in between eur. and US
Robi D says:
all the important things happen in the middle of the night
Tubby Rower says:
not really
admiral kutzov says:
here's a freebie, we're both old
Tubby Rower says:
it's evening here for us and morning there for you
admiral kutzov says:
and have produced younglings (independently of each other0
Robi D says:
im not that young myself
admiral kutzov says:
tubs is old
Tubby Rower says:
I'm only 28
admiral kutzov says:
really old
Robi D says:
well im 27
Tubby Rower says:
but you look younger than me, AK.
admiral kutzov says:
but his wife says i look young
Tubby Rower says:
AK's 41
Tubby Rower says:
But he looks 25-30
admiral kutzov says:
but immature for my age
admiral kutzov says:
R, your honesty is appreciated. we can now talk in the manner of friends
Robi D says:
no probs
Tubby Rower says:
Robi, are you guys headed toward a republic or a monarchy?
Robi D says:
technically im at work and should be doing this
admiral kutzov says:
so who wants to trade what to whom and when
Tubby Rower says:
If you need to go, we respect that and will shake hands and depart
Tubby Rower says:
until another time
admiral kutzov says:
tubs will trade me to u for a price
admiral kutzov says:
with glee
Tubby Rower says:
I wouldn't trade you
Robi D says:
Atm we have stopped going forwards as other issues have come up so were collect the base techs
Tubby Rower says:
maybe igor
admiral kutzov says:
lol
Tubby Rower says:
Do you need to go or can negotiations continue?
admiral kutzov says:
R, we'll focus now and be good
Robi D says:
no the boss isnt in today and there not much work
Robi D says:
so we can continue
admiral kutzov says:
cool
Tubby Rower says:
Let me scroll down the list of the techs we have acquired
Tubby Rower says:
BW, IW, Alpha, Pottery, WC, CB, Myst
Tubby Rower says:
Writing will be done in ~3 or 4 turns
Robi D says:
ok, we have BW, Alpha, Pottery, Writing, Philo, CoL and wheel in 2 turns
Robi D says:
I would have to check with everyone of course but i think they would be happy with a CoL for WC+IW swap if you guys are
Tubby Rower says:
we are looking to become a great republic, so the Philo and CoL would be interesting to obtain
Tubby Rower says:
Have you guys had any other contacts?
Robi D says:
well we can do a deal with philo as well
Robi D says:
yes, what about you guys
Tubby Rower says:
yes
Tubby Rower says:
I presume that you have 2 other contacts?
Robi D says:
i'm cant say exactly, but you may presume
Tubby Rower says:
Why can't you say exactly? is there something that we are missing?
admiral kutzov says:
r, can we bring mistfit in?
Robi D says:
thats sensitive government information which im not at liberty to say, but i think you guys would have a fair idea of the map so i think you can work out that we have met others
Robi D says:
you sure

Mistfit has been added to the conversation.

Tubby Rower says:
That's fine.
Tubby Rower says:
This is Mistfit, our artist extraordinaire
Mistfit says:
Hello
Robi D says:
hi misfit
admiral kutzov says:
dont forget the t
Tubby Rower says:
the middle 't'
Tubby Rower says:
so IW & WC for CoL
Mistfit says:
Don't worry about it... I don't
Tubby Rower says:
What for Philo?
Robi D says:
ok, just to throw it out there, philo for CB + myst
Mistfit says:
Robi what is your nick on CFC?
Robi D says:
its Robi D
Mistfit says:
hmm not seen you around... I don't get out much
Mistfit says:
how long have you been at CFC?
Robi D says:
oh about 6 months i think
Tubby Rower says:
I guess it is proposed that this deal will go down once we obtain Writing?
Mistfit says:
cool
Robi D says:
yes, once you have writing if your happy to we can do a CoL + Philo for IW + WC + CB + Myst
Tubby Rower says:
Do you need to take it back to your team?
Robi D says:
i eould of course have to check with everyone, but since the swap is equal in research time i think they will agree
Tubby Rower says:
OK.
Robi D says:
are you guys happy with that deal
Tubby Rower says:
It will be a couple of turns yet before it can be execute
Tubby Rower says:
*executed
Tubby Rower says:
yes it seems fair
Robi D says:
thats ok, we have a couple of turns b4 wheel finished
Tubby Rower says:
Do you guys have a research plan after this deal is done?
Mistfit says:
I'm happy... but that could be due to liquid encouragement
Robi D says:
well if you guys except the deal, we would go for HB riding
Robi D says:
do you guys need to take this back to your team
admiral kutzov says:
no we're anarchists with almost equal power
admiral kutzov says:
we can do this deal now
Mistfit says:
Maybe he thinks before he types
Robi D says:
ok, lol, well i would be 99% certain doughnut will be happy, but i still have to check, if you want i can agree in principle now, and send you a formal agreement in a day or so when everyones had there say
admiral kutzov says:
sounds like a plan
Robi D says:
ok, i would shake your hands but its a bit difficult being 9000kms away
admiral kutzov says:
R, which vintage of OZ brew shall we hoist to your good health?
Mistfit says:
You are from Australia?
Robi D says:
coopers, it the best by far
Robi D says:
yes i am
Mistfit says:
Do you know of a drink called "Crippled Cock" ?
Robi D says:
fosters it crap
admiral kutzov says:
before u go, a question?
Robi D says:
sure
admiral kutzov says:
u at war with the evil empire, tnt?
Robi D says:
yes, we had the displeasure of running into them
admiral kutzov says:
provo almost got me banned
Mistfit says:
He has that effect on many
Robi D says:
yeah i saw all the posts
admiral kutzov says:
good
Mistfit says:
what was the outcome? were blows traded?
Robi D says:
well we met, we discussed trades, they they attacked us, i got the feeling it was because of the whole renaming issue, that they got pissed off
Robi D says:
not that we accussed them of anything
admiral kutzov says:
stupid of the to start a war
admiral kutzov says:
of them
Mistfit says:
I'm glad someone took them down a notch
Robi D says:
well, it should be interesting, since we met in the middle of nowhere who is going to get the upper hand
Mistfit says:
We in the future would be interested in helping with that
Mistfit says:
We are not big fans of TNT
Robi D says:
we will keep that in mind
admiral kutzov says:
idiots do war very well. we have bugs. see M7+1
Tubby Rower says:
and Bede
Robi D says:
thats because they have an understanding of the logic
Mistfit says:
Not a sstrong suit of TNT
Mistfit says:
*strong
admiral kutzov says:
lmao
Mistfit says:
I stutter sometimes when I've been
Tubby Rower says:
Well gentlemen, I have to go snuggle with the little women
Tubby Rower says:
Have a pleasant day at work Robi.
Mistfit says:
women? or woman?
Tubby Rower says:
Night fellers
Robi D says:
no probs, thanks for your time
Tubby Rower says:
WEll there is a little baby growing
admiral kutzov says:
again, I thought u would have figured that out by now
Tubby Rower says:
it could be a girl
Robi D says:
we will get back to you soon
Mistfit says:
Look us up anytime
Robi D says:
good night
Mistfit says:
we are frequently here
Robi D says:
no worries
Mistfit says:
cya

Mistfit has left the conversation.

admiral kutzov says:
adios

admiral kutzov has left the conversation.

EDIT:::Please let us know if this is ok.... We have ~ 3-4 turns to get it straight

gmaharriet

Oct 11, 2005, 10:12 PM

Wow! It sounds like they're more than willing to cooperate. My question is how this will affect our arrangements with MIA. Since they gave us Myst, which is part of our deal the Dnuts, we'll probably need to share the wealth.

I'm also curious as to why MIA said Dnuts were so aloof, because I sure didn't sense any of that sort of attitude in the above conversation.

Whomp

Oct 11, 2005, 11:28 PM

Bravo AK, Mistfit and Tubs! Job well done.

This get us exactly where we need to go. MIA should give us wheel (and masonry is already part of the deal) for this transaction considering we pulled CoL out of the mix. If not more. In fact this may create an opportunity for us to run at republic (less than max for the cash upgrades of GS! :evil: )We should have them start on Map making and ?maths? or ?currency?

I think the issue with MIA is they don't have someone like Fe on all their dealings. This was a perfect case and point where our guys built rapport and turned into a deal. Simple is as simple does.

Daghdha

Oct 12, 2005, 12:49 AM

Job well done guys, but I don't see the 2fer possibility in here. I thought there was some consensus about that, that we should be "up" on the deal. Good thing about giving Myst is they might be lured towards Monarchy (as Whomp suggested we should do with TNT). I don't wanna be a killjoy but I just don't see how we by this deal are taking full advantage of the situation. Enlighten me...
What also fules my hesitation is that Robin said he was sure the Nuts would accept such a deal before even asking of their opinion. In my book of trades that spells "a very profitable deal for them". Their first suggestion, CoL for IW+WC, seems better to me. WC we got for free and IW is not that expensive these days. If we get CoL for that we can work on Philo and MM together with MIA and then we can do Republic. I think we will, by far, be the first ones to change gov. even if we do it this way because Nuts will surely go for HBR first and they will go slow. In the mean time they will instantly have Archers and Swords to put up against TNT.

Edit: Not much of a 2fer i agree, but if we choose not to deal with TNT at all, those possibilities are maybe gone out the window anyway, at least "within" one deal. If it's possible to do xfers via MIA i can't say becuse then it gets way to complicated for this Idiot.

Tubby Rower

Oct 12, 2005, 05:06 AM

TNT haven't responded at ALL. According to Robi, they met in the middle of no where and TNT attacked.

The reason why this is so profitable to them is because they've only had to research Philo yet they get CoL for free. So in there book they are getting 5 techs out of Philo. In our book we never really had a chance to get to Phio 1st and therefore no sling for us. so we are coming out ahead in the beaker costs.

So I think that the deal is pretty fair on both sides. It's not set in stone and can be changed if it's not satisfactory. That being said. I think that this is a prime opportunity for us to go Republic which is why I wanted to get them to throw in Philo.

:hatsoff: to AK & Mist for telling me when to shut up :thumbsup:

Daghdha

Oct 12, 2005, 06:27 AM

We will get republic either way of course and one way, the full deal, is a bit faster. I would prefer the somewhat slower path and I'll try to give solid reasons for it. My :devil: plan is as follows:
1. We agree with MIA that they buddy TNT and we buddy Nuts.
2. MIA tries to set TNT on the Monarchy path by offering CB+Myst for whatever they can get. MIA starts mapmaking.
3. We supply Nuts with IW and WC for CoL. We start Philosophy-->Rep.
4. When the war is over Nuts will prolly not have rep. yet (hopefully) and will be very eager to trade for that (monopoly?) tech.

This would mean we support Nuts fight vs. the evil empire, they still have to do a lot of research when at war keeping them from getting rep. faster than us, we get the chanse to sell rep. quite profitable, we will be first in republic for some turns and with MM we can secure territory for military purpouses.

Side note: I think you did a terrific job in building a good relation to Nuts!

Tubby Rower

Oct 12, 2005, 06:30 AM

Side note: I think you did a terrific job in building a good relation to Nuts!
AK did all of the repor stuff. I just wanted to deal quick and dirty, but AK & Mist could talk a dog into meowing.

Whomp

Oct 12, 2005, 09:06 AM

I think we will end up getting wheel out of this deal from MIA since they don't need to research CoL (or philo) any longer. It is worth asking them if they would be willing to give up wheel and start on Map making and another tech. In the meantime Donut gets to fight the fight and activate their and TNT's despotic GA. We could easily be out of the AA before we finish republic.

Tubby Rower

Oct 12, 2005, 09:10 AM

So is the big package deal a go? Since we have Writing, we can send D'nut the techs this turn. And hopefully they'll send them back with an accept.

We need to confirm with them, but I wanted a couple of 'Ayes' from the crowd that wasn't part of the negotiations. I'll write up a formal proposal and post it here in ~ 5-10 minutes.

btw, Whomp :( sorry to see the Sox lose.... I don't really like the Angels. But as long as whoever wins kicks St' Louis's butt I really don't care. The cards are getting a little cocky.

Tubby Rower

Oct 12, 2005, 09:21 AM

How does this sound?
To the great nation of Doughnutia:

We have acquired Writing this turn. Time has flown by so we were mistaken in our conversation last night(for us)/this morning(for Robi) when telling him that Writing was due in 4-5 turns.

We propose that the deal move forward this turn. Below is the procedure for the deal.
1. KISS will send Warrior Code, Iron Working, Ceremonial Burial this turn.
2. D'nut adds Philosophy and Code of Laws during their next turn and accepts the deal.
3. KISS will accept the deal next turn and send Mysticism already accepted to finalize the deal.

Please respond quickly in order to facilitate this trade between our two great nations as quickly as possible.

Your grateful camarilla,
Team KISS

btw, [def]
camarilla (n.) A group of confidential, often scheming advisers; a cabal.

Whomp

Oct 12, 2005, 09:45 AM

I think we go forward but I know Daghie is not liking the deal. Please discuss if you dissent and why.

My view is we need to concentrate on our game (growth and republic) and the means to this end is available. My .02.

btw, Whomp sorry to see the Sox lose.... I don't really like the Angels. But as long as whoever wins kicks St' Louis's butt I really don't care. The cards are getting a little cocky.Thanks Tubs. I have come to the realization I should avoid all big games with my teams. I'm mush. I was at the Illinois-Arizona basketball game when the Wildcats gave up a 15 point lead with 1 1/2 minutes left in the game. The White Sox didn't execute. It's a long series so I'm still confident.

Tubby Rower

Oct 12, 2005, 09:55 AM

I guess I can go ahead and send the techs this turn but not accept them. If something is wrong we or they will still have an opportunity to back out.

Daghdha

Oct 12, 2005, 10:31 AM

I don't want to hold this up. My line of reasoning is built on assumptions and I'm not the one to say they're correct. Both Tubbs and Whomp are more experienced traders so you guys go ahead and send the propousal. It is in no way a "bad" deal.

Tubby Rower

Oct 12, 2005, 10:33 AM

Both Tubbs and Whomp are more experienced traders so you guys go ahead and send the propousal.I've never played a PBEM before this. Don't assume I know what I'm doing. If AK & Mistfit wasn't there, there is no telling how it would have come out. We might have ended up at war with ourselves ;)

Whomp

Oct 12, 2005, 10:39 AM

I guess my thinking on this is our double research capabilities will leave the two warring nations in the dust economically and on expansion. Donut having the capability to fight is a good thing for both MIA and KISS. MIA will be a client state IMO since their expansion simply can not keep pace with us.

The biggest risk to us in this whole scenario is if we got backstabbed by MIA and we don't have the military to fight them off. The moment our military pump is up and running there is no stopping the freight train known as KISS.

Daghdha

Oct 12, 2005, 10:46 AM

I guess my thinking on this is our double research capabilities will leave the two warring nations in the dust economically and on expansion I garee totally but I think maybe we could make even better use of this fact by being a bit "tight" about selling these techs.

Coinich

Oct 12, 2005, 11:33 AM

My .03 cents (must one-up Whomp) :mischief:

My view is we need to concentrate on our game (growth and republic) and the means to this end is available
I concur.

Caveat and disclaimer: I am new to this game, so I may not be playing with a full deck. :hmm: Which, come to think of it, actually makes me VERY qualified to make such a recommendation.

Tubby Rower

Oct 12, 2005, 11:37 AM

btw, the letter above has been sent via PM to Robi & Daveshack and to their gmail account. I hope they respond soon so I can play the turn.

Daghdha

Oct 13, 2005, 04:08 AM

just found this in our mail-box:
To our friends in the great nation of KISS,

We have accepted the trade offer proposed between our two fine
nations. We will give you Code of Laws and Philosophy in exchange for
Warrior Code, Iron Working, Cerimonial Burial and Mystisicim.

The order you proposed, which is;
1. KISS will send Warrior Code, Iron Working, Ceremonial Burial this turn.
2. D'nut adds Philosophy and Code of Laws during their next turn and
accepts the deal.
3. KISS will accept the deal next turn and send Mysticism already
accepted to finalize the deal.

We are happy with this order, so you may proceed as planned.

Now that this deal is concluded, i would like to discuss another
matter with you. During our discussion of the above deal an idea came
up for further trade possibilities. You mentioned in our talk
yesterday that your nation was interested in Republic. So if your next
research goal is Republic, we would like a trade agreement in advance.

While you research Republic, we could for example research Horseback
Riding, Masonry, Mathematics and Literature. Once everythings
completed we would trade. We believe given our similar research
capabilities this could be done in an equal amount of time. We would
of course during this time keep each other informed of the progress at
regular intervals.

Once again we celebrate our trade with your great nation and ask you
to consider our proposal on the advanced trade.

Thank you
Robi D, Foreign Affairs Consul, Doughnutia
I'm thinking we want to see which way the wind blows on their continent before we do any long-term agreements. Of course it's a very good deal for them since they can use both math and HBR in the conflict and a swift shift of gov. when it's over. For us....I dunno.

Tubby Rower

Oct 13, 2005, 05:35 AM

The problem is that we'll be getting Masonry from MIA as a part of an earlier deal. that makes the beaker cost 840 to 690 in their favor. Not a good deal for us.

Unless they can provide us with techs as they are researched instead of trading all at the end, there's no way I'd make this agreement even if the tech costs were closer to fair.

All I know is that after this deal is done, that we start research on Republic. Just like the AI, these guys would sell their left nut for Republic. Now that we have the pre-requisites and the lack of war to facilitate researching it, I see no need to make a deal until this gets closer.

Whomp

Oct 13, 2005, 08:52 AM

We should explain to Donut that we already have a deal pending for wheel and masonry for writing with MIA. MIA has explained they don't need writing and this is why. In the meantime, let Donut research Horseback Riding and Mathematics (war path) (then monarchy?) while MIA goes down the Map making, Lit and construction (peace path).

We need to give a heads up to MIA.

Tubby Rower

Oct 13, 2005, 08:56 AM

Heads up to MIA yes. They also need to know about our contact. If I could get onto AIM then I'd send fe the info but I can't.

Let's hold off on letting D'nut know about our deal with MIA until this one is done. They still have to send us the CoL and Philo. After that we'll be in the catbird seat and can then tell them.

Kickbooti

Oct 14, 2005, 12:44 PM

After reading and ruminating today I have an idea that may be able to be incorporated into our communications with the Nuts.

1) According to Robi they met TNT, were discussing tech trades and were unexpectedly attacked.

2) They treated MIA much the same way that TNT has treated us, arrogant, uncooperative, aloof.

3) We MUST assume they have a techno-wizzard like Tubby and would be able to discern our alliance with MIA based on tech acquisition/timing.

4) While they seem pretty friendly with us, that is probably born out of desperation and NOT because that is their normal way of approaching others (TNT backstabbed, MIA they are non-communicitive).

5) It, therefore, become necessary to obfuscate and hide our relationship with MIA as long as possible.

THEREFORE, in our dealings with them, I think that we should use their presupositions against them. Us Idiots think the world can be a nice place, the Nuts (most probably) think the world is out to get them.

So, when we are explaining certain limitations on what we are able to do, we should describe our relationship with MIA in cryptic terms that, while not untrue, are bare enough so that the Nuts can fill in the colors.

For example, when talking about certain deals with MIA we could say something like, "...when we met MIA they didn't stoop quite so low as TNT and overtly stab us in the back..."

Or when we acknowledge that our relationship with MIA puts limits on what we can do with the 'Nuts, rather than telling them it is a pretty genuine alliance and we are playing as honest brokers; rather give them the impression that certain lines would precipitate a conflict with MIA that we are not ready for. And then make statements about 'our time coming soon,' or the impending 'age of KISS.' You know, make veiled war-monger remarks that seem to await only the right time.

This might be redundant, but it was rattling in my noggin so I had to get it out.

Daghdha

Oct 14, 2005, 01:15 PM

@Kick
I think you are makin' some very good points.

Whomp

Oct 14, 2005, 02:02 PM

For example, when talking about certain deals with MIA we could say something like, "...when we met MIA they didn't stoop quite so low as TNT and overtly stab us in the back..."
Love it. Very good Noggin' man. We also can state gpt (transparent) and luxs (transparent once harbors are in place) were traded. ;)

Tubby Rower

Oct 15, 2005, 08:40 AM

Delivered in the mail today
Hello happy Idiots!

All techs were received in good order, thank you. It was nice to trade
with you, and we look forward to future deals. We hope you enjoy the
enclosed gift.

zyxy,
Team Doughnut

gmaharriet

Oct 15, 2005, 09:02 AM

Aha!!! Methinks they are trying to foment internal strife among our people. I mean, 16 donuts for 30 people??? With 15 we could each have had a half, but how will we split the extra, huh? Very, very sneaky of them. :mischief:

IroquoisPlisken

Oct 15, 2005, 09:49 AM

We split the last donut into 30 pieces...or just let me have it. ;) Damn, now I have a craving for Dunkin' Donuts. :(

Tubby Rower

Oct 15, 2005, 09:52 AM

Someone already took a bite out of the one 3 rows down 3 rows across..... Who was it.... It wasn't the delivery boy ;)

gmaharriet

Oct 15, 2005, 11:11 AM

Ah, so they did, Tubs. Most likely an attempt by them to throw suspicion upon you. Um, are you sure it wasn't you???? ;)

Pentium

Oct 15, 2005, 11:31 AM

Shall we send them 17+3*(sqrt 7) kisses as a return? :D

Butterball

Oct 15, 2005, 12:16 PM

Someone already took a bite out of the one 3 rows down 3 rows across..... Who was it.... It wasn't the delivery boy ;)
Maybe we should send that one back. No, that's too hostile. Let's ask em.
BB

Whomp

Oct 15, 2005, 09:58 PM

My thoughts on what we should suggest donut research in exchange for republic is
1. HBR which they are currently working on.
2. Maths for catapults against their nemesis.
3. Currency for markets.
This almost works out in beakers (I think it's a 30 beaker difference). We can make up the difference in cash.

The benefit here is we could start building markets when everyone else is in anarchy. A very nice bonus.

In the meantime MIA goes mapmaking, lit and ?? to match.

Thoughts on proposing this?

Daghdha

Oct 16, 2005, 01:42 AM

I think it's a good deal cept everyone else has greater chans on sgl's but hey, that's the way we've chosen to play the tree. I would like to include Masonry in the deal. We overpaid them then, they do it now.
We should ask MIA to sell Masonry to Nuts before they give it to us. Gives the impression MIA/KISS is not best buddies and, as it is included in the bigger deal, we don't have to say No to Nuts offering it. Including Masonry in a proposed deal also tells Nuts we don't know MIA is soon ready with it. So my suggestion is:
1. HBR which they are currently working on.
2. Masonry which is just a cover up. They buy from MIA.
2. Maths for catapults against their nemesis.
3. Currency for markets.
They deliver each tech upon discovery NOT in a lump when Rep. is ready.
Also important we learn from previous deal. We should have no hurry in closing this. We can make them a rather tough deal then sit back and wait. We're growing, they're struggling :D

Tubby Rower

Oct 17, 2005, 12:32 PM

Ah HA!!! The culprit was found out. The teeth markings on the pastry were nearly analyzed when the vic confessed.

Hello Doughnuts,

Don't tell anyone on my team but that half eaten doughnut was me. Hey what the heck being POTKISS should have some benefits, right?

We have some ideas on co-research. Let us know when you can talk on IM. We would like to talk.

Yours,
Whomp
POTKISS

Whomp

Oct 18, 2005, 10:11 PM

Cross your fingers. If Robi W is any indication we may have them hook, line and sinker. We need to get MIA on board to either trade them masonry or trade it to us so we can start Donut on maths. One thing I'm curious about is how they got HBR so fast when they said they just researched wheel. :hmm: We may want to check TNT to see if they have it. I think we should at least ask what TNT is willing to sell masonry for. Just to feign interest.
Rob says:
hi whomp, how are you
Whomp says:
hey rob
Whomp says:
what's happening there kid
Rob says:
not to much, yourself
Whomp says:
somehow just got bounced off a IM with two others on my team. Want to meet Adm. Kutzov and Grahamiam?
Rob says:
i met AK in my previous talk, but feel free to add anyone you want to

admiral kutzov has been added to the conversation.

Whomp says:
AK this is Rob
admiral kutzov says:
hey rob
Rob says:
hey AK
Whomp says:
Donut
Whomp says:
So Rob can we need to get a time or discuss life
Whomp says:
we'd like to help you with wheel.
Rob says:
we can talk now, i've got the day off today
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
We have some thoughts.
Rob says:
we already have wheel, it was finshed last turn]
Whomp says:
good
Rob says:
we have started on horseback riding
Whomp says:
Good.
Whomp says:
Have you heard from TNT or do you have any interest?
Rob says:
not since our last battle, but atm they are asking for a whole bunch of techs and gold for a peace settlement, which isn't going to happen
Whomp says:
right.
Whomp says:
We have some thoughts on trading for republic.
Rob says:
ok, lets here it
Whomp says:
well we think you'll need cats.
Whomp says:
math
Whomp says:
after hbr of course
Rob says:
ok, so are you guys doing masonry now
Whomp says:
no we are running to republic.
Rob says:
ok i see
Whomp says:
we would like to give it to you
Rob says:
ok, just a bit lost, do you have math
Whomp says:
no
Whomp says:
OK here's our thoughts.
Whomp says:
Research HBR.
Whomp says:
then maths.
Whomp says:
for cats. you'll need them.
Whomp says:
then currency for markets.
Whomp says:
by that time we can get in a republic and use the multiplier of markets

grahamiam has been added to the conversation.

Whomp says:
I invited one of our new players
Rob says:
ok, but we will need to research masonry as well as we dont have it
Rob says:
do you guys have mason?
Whomp says:
hbr first
Whomp says:
no we don't
Whomp says:
we will get it i'm pretty confident.
Rob says:
it just mason is a prereq for math
Whomp says:
right I'm pretty confident we could get it soon.
Rob says:
is that through other sources
Whomp says:
yes.
Whomp says:
We are working the wires.
Whomp says:
it's tough.
Whomp says:
We hope to get it before you finish hbr.
Rob says:
so let me see if im following correctly, we research HBR while you aquire mason, then we swap, we then research math and currency while you do rep. Is that correct?
Whomp says:
yes.
Whomp says:
We may require something in return in addition because we would come up quite a bit short on that trade.
Rob says:
just out of curiosity, what are you giving TNT for masonry?
Rob says:
would gold surfice or we could make a further tech trade to even the score
Whomp says:
We can work on that. Think about it.
Whomp says:
Tech or gold but the key for you guys is to get cats in hand.
Whomp says:
Here's some very valuable information.
Rob says:
ok, i will have to take this back to everyone but i think its workable
Whomp says:
ok.
Rob says:
nice dodging of the tnt question
Whomp says:
Would you like some info on them?
Whomp says:
We would expect a similar favor in the future.
Rob says:
we pretty much know where they are and what they have, but if you have anything interesting to add, sure, but im not sure we can talk about map issues until mapmaking if i understand the rules of the game correctly
Whomp says:
favors are enough.
Whomp says:
you realize they have iron hooked up?
Rob says:
we didn't know exactly, but we assumed they would have by now
Whomp says:
they do.
Whomp says:
now you know exactly.
Rob says:
ok thanks
Whomp says:
No problem. We hope you will extend the same courtesy some day.
Rob says:
of course, we will try to help when you need it
Whomp says:
That makes for good relations.
Rob says:
It does
Rob says:
just before we finish up, i had a look through the tech chart, as a way to even up everything an option would be for us to research MM while you do Lit.
Rob says:
its just for you to consider, anyway i will take the offer back to my team, so you should here from us in the next turn or so of the game.
Whomp says:
We expect it to took a long time till we get republic
admiral kutzov says:
hey rob, shout the peeps for me
Rob says:
we will have HBR in 4, so if you can get mason by then it wont hold things up, because we cant see how long it will take for maths and currency atm
Whomp says:
Sorry rob that was horrible english. What I meant was we expect republic to take a long tiem.
admiral kutzov says:
time
Rob says:
i understood what you meant
Whomp says:
we will work hard to get masonry.
Whomp says:
still butchered it the 2nd time.
Rob says:
no worries, ive butchered more than a couple myself
Whomp says:
hehe
Whomp says:
OK so that sounds good. We will keep open communication about anything you feel is valuable.
admiral kutzov says:
i've been distracting whomp
Rob says:
no probs, same here
Whomp says:
AK you're killing me bro.
Whomp says:
but you're funny so we keep you around.
admiral kutzov says:
that and the beer
Whomp says:
ok so we have some work ahead of us. let's keep in close contact since this save is moving fast, ok?

Rob says:
hehe, i leave you guys to it, i'll go and post the offer on the forum so we can give you a quick answer.
Rob says:
ok
Whomp says:
great
Whomp says:
we will do the same.
Whomp says:
thanks for the donuts!
admiral kutzov says:
sounds like a plan.
Whomp says:
I ate part of the one.
Rob says:
sure if we both agree then we should check in with each other every few turns or so
Whomp says:
my team caught me.
Whomp says:
right especially if you have hbr that close
admiral kutzov says:
i knew it. u r busted

Rob says:
no probs we have plenty of doughnuts to go around
admiral kutzov says:
send beer
Whomp says:
cool. it was quite a scandal at KISS!
Whomp says:
I resigned as UN rep because of it.
Rob says:
lol, we will send some beer too, once we have some
admiral kutzov says:
that's a whole nother thread
Whomp says:
so you say 4 turns?
Rob says:
yes, i pretty sure, i haven't seen the last save yet but it should be 4
Rob says:
since we started research on turn 49
Whomp says:
ok we will hustle
Rob says:
and its 59 now
Rob says:
50
Rob says:
no probs, go luck
Whomp says:
ok good talking rob. Go get 'em!
Rob says:
thanks whomp, we will

Daghdha

Oct 19, 2005, 12:55 AM

One thing I'm curious about is how they got HBR so fast when they said they just researched wheel. We may want to check TNT to see if they have it. It's time to build an embassy in Springfield.

Tubby Rower

Oct 19, 2005, 05:40 AM

No one has HBR as of the end of our turn 49. and TNT doesn't have the Wheel. TNT has the same techs as before, and Greece has Masonry.

They will have to self-research it. @ 150 total beakers, for 6 turns of research (assuming they had already played turn 50 when Robi said that they had 4 turns) that means that they would have to average 25 beakers per turn. Right now @ 100% science we can squeak out 26. So it is feasible that they could do it. especially with a lux or two hooked up and MPs in their bigger towns. I suspect it'll be closer to 5 (21.4 bpt) or 6 (18.75 bpt) turns from now.

grahamiam

Oct 19, 2005, 07:56 AM

how do you know no one has hbr? in the pbem diplomacy screen, you cannot see what tech's your opponents has. You can only see what techs you have that they don't have.

Tubby Rower

Oct 19, 2005, 08:18 AM

CA2 will tell you who has what.

grahamiam

Oct 19, 2005, 08:23 AM

that's legal here? just fyi, most pbem players won't like that so don't try it at cdz ;)

Tubby Rower

Oct 19, 2005, 08:35 AM

Good thing that I haven't used it in my grs PBEM... Thanks for the warning.

The only mention of it in the ruleset is here (I made the part bold that contains it) 2.2 - Save Manipulation

Description: No team or individual is permitted to use the PBEM save games or other files to obtain information or alter any in-game element. This includes monitoring or altering memory while the game is loaded. When using CivAssist II or MapStat, please be sure to use the latest version available.

Definition: An individual scanning or monitoring loaded files into memory or altering a file can obtain location information and more, they can even alter in game data.

Purpose: To prevent the use of outside game elements to break the spirit of the game by allowing someone to outright cheat.

Verdict: Using these or any other methods that allows altering the in-game content through any means is a violation of this rule.

Punishment Level: Once - Automatic Expulsion
I can stop using the Technology screen from now on if this is considered by all ot be cheating. I don't but I also don't want to give the perception of cheating. My reasoning behind its valid use is that against the AI, you can see what's available to be traded and against a human it's not. I don't know why the designers made it this way but I think that it should be the same no matter who you are dealing with.

EDIT:: I can see the arguement about I've been "using outside game elements to break the spirit of the game". But this has been available to everyone since the beginning. My interpretation of this rule is to not ALTER the save. Not to not extract information out. I guess if I 'm guilty of violating this rule then I'll be expelled. :(

grahamiam

Oct 19, 2005, 08:38 AM

well, are you using the latest version? if so, we should be fine (ie, spoiler info removed). anyways, i am confused as I read a ruling stating that the lastest version is ok, and i'm new and don't want to stir trouble.

Tubby Rower

Oct 19, 2005, 08:45 AM

No don't worry about stirring up trouble. We should prolly send this to the admins for clarification. (which I'll do as soon as I finish writing this)

I am using the latest version of CA2. The Trade Options screen doesn't have anything in there. It's the technology screen that has who has what.

I'll stop using that screen until a ruling has been made.

Whomp

Oct 19, 2005, 08:49 AM

Hmm...Tubby you're not going anywhere. If we think it's not a fair program to use for us then it should not be for everyone else. Daveshack had a heart attack and threatened to quit if he couldn't use CA II.

grahamiam

Oct 19, 2005, 09:02 AM

well, there's a simple solution. we know the cost of HBR on a small map, on emperor, with 4 players is 125g. if 1 team has it, the cost drops to 107g, 2 teams its down to 89g, 3 teams its down to 71g (all according to TechCalc 2.01). If someone can look at the save, check how many beakers hbr now costs (could be difficult since we are doing min research :hmm: ). Maybe CA2 doesn't show any techs for any other civs, and we'd be ok? I don't know as I don't use CA2.

Tubby Rower

Oct 19, 2005, 09:08 AM

I submitted the PM to Regent & Ginger. I posted a copy in the Dept. of General Musings. If it's not clear cut then I suspect that it'll be a discussion thread in the Main Forum

Whomp

Oct 19, 2005, 09:18 AM

OK we need to let MIA in on the discussions of the evening. I also think we should email TNT, just for giggles, to see what they would offer for masonry. Let's find out when MIA will finish masonry (or are they done?).

Kickbooti

Oct 19, 2005, 09:32 AM

I submitted the PM to Regent & Ginger. I posted a copy in the Dept. of General Musings. If it's not clear cut then I suspect that it'll be a discussion thread in the Main Forum

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not another rule discussion in the main forum!

SANTION-ary! SANTION-ary!

Tubby Rower

Oct 19, 2005, 09:35 AM

Masonry is finished in MIA-land (found out from fe not CA2)

Whomp

Oct 19, 2005, 09:37 AM

Crakie

Oct 19, 2005, 02:57 PM

I don't see the fuss: Tubby used the latest version of CA2 (so am I actually), so it's all fine right?

Admiral Kutzov

Oct 19, 2005, 03:57 PM

a controversy I didn't have a hand in? what's up with that? off to the main forum to cause trouble

Daghdha

Oct 19, 2005, 04:29 PM

OK. I sent them a pm (keep them in the loop) to let them know we talked to Robi at Donut. Either they can attempt to trade it for cash to Donut or we can since Donut thinks we may be getting it from TNT.
I believe MIA rather not go to Nuts for trading. They feel pi55ed of and are waiting for Nuts to come to them. This is the impression I got from fe3333au.

Pentium

Oct 20, 2005, 06:37 AM

Well, even better :D

Daghdha

Oct 20, 2005, 03:25 PM

I agree, and if others keep letting hurt feelings hamper their trading then al we have to do is play a decent game and they will see to it that we win :lol:

Whomp

Oct 20, 2005, 03:29 PM

I agree, and if others keep letting hurt feelings hamper their trading then al we have to do is play a decent game and they will see to it that we win :lol: This is one of the reasons I think we should try one more time with TNT to see if they're interested in trading Masonry. Just so we can see if A. they'll respond and B. we can tell them their price is too high. :evil: mhuha:lol: !!eleven!!

Admiral Kutzov

Oct 20, 2005, 05:12 PM

I like whomps plan :devil:

Daghdha

Oct 30, 2005, 06:02 PM

I have searched the threads for what we have agreed on vs. Nut. The only thing I see is the initial "philo+CoL for WC,CB, Myst+?". Have we ATM no other agreements with them? We discussed Rep. for HBR, Math and Currency but it is nowhere to be found so I take it it was just talk and not the real deal.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/sigdagh.gif

Whomp

Oct 30, 2005, 07:16 PM

That's right Daghie. They were trying to get both our research on republic and MIA's research for HBR, maths and currency. So we've decided to let them get MIA's research and leave them in the cold on republic.

Whomp

Nov 09, 2005, 08:13 PM

A conversation with Rob. They are resigned to the fact they can not win this game. Rob says:
How are you whomp
Whomp says:
hey Rob
A discussion about masonry
Rob says:
so hows KISS going
Whomp says:
It's been mighty quiet all the way around
Whomp says:
and now we aren't able to get anything rolling on masonry
Rob says:
everyones playing civ4
TNT talk
Whomp says:
TNT won't talk
Whomp says:
You must be taking the piss out of them
Rob says:
they talk to us, rubbish mostly

Rob says:
there last peace offer was unique to say the least
Whomp says:
asking for all your techs?
Rob says:
yes, and gold, every 20 turns
Rob says:
in other words we become TNT no.2
Whomp says:
their bee(edited) so to speak
Rob says:
we are about to have our first battle soon
Rob says:
4 immo's are coming our way
Whomp says:
MW's ready?
Rob says:
no, we have been saving up for upgrades, but we will have HBR next turn. We have 6 cariots ready for upgrade then, hehe
Rob says:
plus warriors for swords
Whomp says:
that's good.
Whomp says:
give em hell
Whoa? Really....hmm
Rob says:
we will, we got lucky and popped masonry last turn
Whomp says:
Who's managing the battlefront? xyzy?
No MIA he says
Rob says:
so we dont have to deal with MIA anymore
Whomp says:
they won't deal to us.
Whomp says:
We're wondering if it's cuz of their pyramid thing
Rob says:
maybe, we were in the process of negotiations, but their deal was way to lopsided in their favour
Back to war talk :evil:
Rob says:
zyxy is in charge of the battlefront
Whomp says:
i've watched him in the SG forum. Zyxy that's it. duh too confusing
Lit?
Rob says:
just wandering, how quickly can you guys get Lit
Rob says:
brb in 5
Whomp says:
ok
Rob says:
sorry had a phone call
Whomp says:
no probs
Rob says:
can you guys do Lit
Lit? We've got no steenkin' lit my friend...
Whomp says:
Well it's a slow run on republic
Whomp says:
we are pretty far off still
Rob says:
ok, its just we were thinking if you guy could we could really screw up TNT's plans
Whomp says:
you think they're headed to the Glib or something?
Whomp says:
they don't have writing yet
Interesting commentary....resignation or head fake?
Rob says:
its the only logical thing, because they haven't researched anything in a long time
Whomp says:
cash upgrades i presume
Whomp says:
and their capital has hardly grown for a long time
Whomp says:
i saw them mining a hill
Whomp says:
what's up with that?
Rob says:
true but we met them on turn 39 i think and they haven't done a thing
Rob says:
since
Whomp says:
Provo's been quiet in the public threads
Whomp says:
what's up with that
Rob says:
if there not going for GL with a pre-build then i don't know what there doing, because they wont win being that far behind in techs
Rob says:
unless they have some deal with MIA
Rob says:
but that doesn't make sense either
Whomp says:
still they are way behind
Whomp says:
i'm surprised tim bentley isn't playing their saves too...he's a good player
Rob says:
the only thing we can think of, is they are prebuilding GL in some small city behing the frontlines, and waiting until its nearly ready then research writing and Lit quickly
Whomp says:
could be coastal
Whomp says:
they were mining a hill
Rob says:
hmmm, but thats useless under despot and they dont have the techs to switch to mon or rep anytime soon
Whomp says:
Despotic GA
Whomp says:
it would bring it to 3 methinks
Rob says:
well thats the only way, but they dont have it yet
Rob says:
maybe thats what the immo's are for
Whomp says:
yep
Rob says:
we will try not to give it to them by using MW's
Rob says:
hit and run attacks
Whomp says:
don't let them get terrain
Whomp says:
duh
Rob says:
where they are coming from its only plains
Rob says:
and MW's should withdraw if losing
Whomp says:
Is Killercane helping Zyxy?
Rob says:
we are all giving input for startegy on that front
Whomp says:
'Cane got game too
Rob says:
he does
Rob says:
everyone has been more quite lately, civ4 i guess
Whomp says:
Whomp the Glorious according to Livy regarding the most advanced civs. had to brag about my cIV game. :mischief:
Doin' a little tap dancin'....:eek:
Rob says:
the other thing we cant work out is how MIA got philo and CoL
Whomp says:
they told us they got philo from a hut?
Whomp says:
They have CoL?
Whomp says:
Then we'll never get a deal done with them. I was not aware of that
Rob says:
we noticed they got it only a couple of turns after philo
Rob says:
maybe they researched it
Whomp says:
Wow. I thought we were up CoL on them. No wonder we can't get a masonry deal with them.
Whomp says:
That's why I hate barbs in this game. Too random IMO.
Rob says:
at first we thought you must have done a deal with them
Whomp says:
we couldn't trade pottery with them
Whomp says:
the conversation was comical
Rob says:
i can imagine
Rob says:
i've had plenty of those with them
Quick...change the subject
Whomp says:
it seems like teams have elections every 20 or so right? Maybe it will change...
Whomp says:
except us...I'm POTKISS forever (hehe well....:mischief:)
Rob says:
well we have a turnplayer one soon, then after that for interal and foreign consuls
Whomp says:
Cane?
Rob says:
no ones nominated when i checked yesterday
Whomp says:
that's my nomination as POTKISS of course
Rob says:
hopefully someone will
Rob says:
if they can get away from civ4
Whomp says:
anyone can nominate someone?
Rob says:
they still have to except
Whomp says:
You have a mighty fine roster there.
Rob says:
hopefully it will help us destroy TNT
Wow...strong comment
Rob says:
but i don't think we will win overall
Whomp says:
Why do you think that?
Rob says:
war this early in the game is a disadvantage, MIA and you have a big advantage. Thats why we were shocked by TNT declaring war on us
Whomp says:
it made no sense to us
Whomp says:
they obviously wanted to conquer the continent which also makes no sense
Whomp says:
too hard to cover ground that way
Whomp says:
And I assume no one can talk sense into their heads
Rob says:
thats right, this early in the game it makes no sense, its just a waste of resources, but thats who we got stuck with
Rob says:
you or MIA will win because i doubt this war will end quickly
Whomp says:
I don't understand the upper management at TNT
Whomp says:
They're really impossible.
Rob says:
i know, and they must know they can't win this way either
Rob says:
unless they think we will be a cakewalk
Rob says:
not that i understand that logic either
Whomp says:
Some played in the ISDG right?
Whomp says:
Who'd attack MW's?
Whomp says:
The best AA unit on the planet
Rob says:
i don't know, overconfidence in the immo's
Rob says:
the 4 is a pretty number in attack and if we were next to each other it would make sense, but they have to come across the entire continent
Whomp says:
no speed.
Whomp says:
give me 3-1 with speed anyday
Rob says:
thats what our tactics are based on
Whomp says:
two tiles away from them
Rob says:
hit and run, wear them down then finish them off
Whomp says:
then let them step up
Rob says:
exactly
Whomp says:
they're screwed
Rob says:
and if the MW's dont finish them off the swords in the city will
Whomp says:
Oh well. They're playing a different game than I know.
Rob says:
if they look at the military advisor atm we are weak compared to them, in 2 turn once the upgrades take place they are in for a shock
Whomp says:
I'm sure
Whomp says:
Let us know if you need a loan or something.
Rob says:
we should be fine, once we saw the immos, 4 turns ago we started collecting gold
End of conversation
Rob says:
anyway i better get back to my studies, its been good talking to you, we will catch up soon
Rob says:
oh btw how many turns until you hit rep
Whomp says:
ok see ya rob. think about a republic deal for the future
Whomp says:
long time.
Whomp says:
i'd guess 35+
Oh no, no shoo shoo
Rob says:
we can still trade mason,math,curr with you
Whomp says:
i just looked yesterday and i forgot
Rob says:
we will talk soon
Whomp says:
study hard!
Whomp says:
talk to you later
Rob says:
cya

Kickbooti

Nov 10, 2005, 05:19 AM

I'm glad you're on top of this Whomp. Your prodigous time on MSM, one of the reasons why you are and always will be POTKISS.

So do we want a peice of this action? Should we be working on the ability to launch some early raids on TNT?

Not that this is a foregone conclusion, but if the Nuts start getting spanked, or even if TNT is loosing it and we want to take possession of our cities they are kindly caretaking.

A SOD is not in the offering any time soon, but four spearmen and six to eight GS might make a nice raiding party for Igor to transport and our Joint Cheifs to play with.

Just a thought...

Whomp

Nov 10, 2005, 08:44 AM

Funny thing is I was playing cIV at the same time. Somehow I have the "talking and typing" multi-tasking gene (uncommon for most men btw).

I cut out a few parts like building the Statue of Liberty and getting a great engineer named....German....uh...(age gene)...well anyhow Robi told me the guy developed the calculator. :D

The thing about an early SOD is TNT may not have boats even after we become a republic. According to Donuts, TNT has virtually turned off research. They've gone nowhere on research since turn 39 when they started this mess. You'd think TNT would be smart about talking to us since it won't take us 20 turns to reach their capital with the Admiral's boats. :evil:

Pentium

Nov 10, 2005, 09:21 AM

but i don't think we will win overallThat's the spirit! :rotfl:

barbslinger

Nov 10, 2005, 09:34 AM

Based on Whomps talk with Rob:

A raid on TNT's back door is definately something we should discuss. It does leave us open to a MIA frontdoor though. Also, in the long run it would only really help Nuts'. Say we knock out a few core TNT cities and cripple him; that leaves Nuts' the whole continent. If we get any cities over there they would be basically useless. I think even a FP in Perseopolis would not work very well.
Now if we could grow big enough to be able to support a 2-pronged TNT - MIA assault with 75% MIA and 25% TNT to get his core I would definately like that. We would have to be able to prolong the early MA to best take advantage of our GS but turning off research to cripple both would be a huge advantage. Then with our growth we could continue with mopping MIA and let Nuts' get back on his feet. By then we should be able to field enough firepower to knock Nuts' out.

Bede

Nov 10, 2005, 03:16 PM

curiouser and curiouser!

Immos are so much horsemeat against well handled Mounties. So the only thing they can hope for is a GA, a quick peace settlement, then full steam ahead to the GLib. Maybe we offer TNT a bolthole when the time comes, because I think it will and sooner than they (TNT) think?

Why do I get the feeling this game won't make it out of the Middle Ages?

Whomp

Nov 14, 2005, 08:52 PM

Another conversation while SGing at the same time. Now that's talent. :smug: All war talk and it seems both TNT and Donut are going for the Glib. This could make things very interesting. Not much else to report on this conversation but war talk is always fun. :evil:

Rob says:
hello mr. potkiss
Whomp says:
Hello Mr. President
Rob says:
well i guess i kind of am, since i hold 2 of the 3 presidency posts
Whomp says:
Turnplayer too!
Rob says:
ahh the power
Whomp says:
big job right now!
Whomp says:
And here I am pushing for Killercane and you da man!
Quick discussion of TNT's trade offer
Rob says:
yes, but fun too
Whomp says:
BTW TNT is :smoke: on their deal so...
Rob says:
should be good to go toe to toe with donsig
Whomp says:
yes sir
Rob says:
we have a bit of history
Rob says:
ahh they dont seem to be talking to anyone atm
Whomp says:
really? another pbem?
Whomp says:
They asked for writing and gold
Rob says:
no in this one, first we were both ambassador then FA's and now turnplayers
Rob says:
what do you get in return
Whomp says:
masonry
Rob says:
a canoe without a paddle maybe?
Rob says:
ha, they are funny
Rob says:
how much gold 30, 40?
Rob says:
not that they should get any
Whomp says:
for writing i don't think so
Whomp says:
they are ancient techwise
GLIB discussion
Rob says:
they should be giving gold to you, its not secret they are going for GL
Rob says:
unless by some chance their not, then they are just stupid
Whomp says:
they're in a rush all the sudden too....can you say despotic GA?
Rob says:
ha, they can see our spotters, they are 6 turns away from our nearest city
Rob says:
the fun should commence so, we have prepared a welcoming committee
Whomp says:
if only you could make peace
Rob says:
lol, not in this lifetime, its us or them now, they have made that perfectly clear, personally i would perfer its them. we know we can't win the game but we will be happy with beating TNT
Whomp says:
create some refugees?
Whomp says:
hehe
Rob says:
that would be good, either way we have a few surprises waiting for them
Rob says:
sent a couple too
Whomp says:
we saw one of your warriors going up the west coast
Whomp says:
we didn't say anything I promise
Rob says:
he's just forward recon, the real package was dispatched last turn, hehe
Whomp says:
got the upgrades!
Rob says:
yep, all ready to go and kick ass. I do hope TNT took those swimming lessons
Gram H joins in
Whomp says:
can i invite grandma harriet in?
Rob says:
sure thing

Harriet has been added to the conversation.

Whomp says:
Hi Gram
Whomp says:
Talking to Rob from Donut here
Harriet says:
Hey there Whomp!
Harriet says:
I've never met him.
Harriet says:
How's it going?
Rob says:
not too bad gram, how are you
Whomp says:
Say hi to their guy who gonna lay a can of whomparse on them
Harriet says:
Oh, I see. He's here too. Hi Rob!!!
Rob says:
we can only hope
Harriet says:
brb
Whomp says:
Immortals don't stand a chance once they're injured
Rob says:
you'll know how its going in the turn tracker
Whomp says:
do you report in the turntracker or to them only?
Rob says:
i plan to have some fun with donsig
Rob says:
i think its only to them, but there's no law against gloating
Harriet says:
back
Whomp says:
nice game gram
Whomp says:
that was awesome
Harriet says:
thank you *blush*
Whomp says:
now scoutsout?
Harriet says:
Rob, are you with Dnuts?
Rob says:
yes
Harriet says:
One of the good guys then.
Whomp says:
he's their turnplayer coming up to the war
Harriet says:
Go get 'em!!
Rob says:
lol, yes we are fighting the forces of evil
Harriet says:
agree with that
Harriet says:
Yes, Whomp, I'm excited about having scoutsout playing in our next SG
Harriet says:
He'll make a warmonger out of me yet.
Whomp says:
that's quite an honor
Harriet says:
I agree
Rob says:
the funs about to start with tnt, so watch this space
Harriet says:
How many turns until it starts, Rob?
Battle reports in the turntracker?
Whomp says:
rob do you have to post in the turntracker the results>
Whomp says:
?
Rob says:
about 4, give or take

Harriet says:
I'd love to be a fly on the wall to watch it.
Rob says:
im not sure whomp, i'll have to check. i know we have to send it to them. Either way it wont stop some gloating in the turn tracker
Harriet says:
TNT hasn't exactly endeared themselves to anybody.
Whomp says:
yeah i don't think we get that info

We discuss MIA. I pretend I don't really know Fe
Rob says:
no, i was talking to MIA new FA last night and they haven't been impressed either
Whomp says:
Who is the MIA guy? (hehe :mischief: )
Rob says:
fe3333au, another aussie
Whomp says:
he seems cool
Harriet says:
Are you an Aussie too, Rob?
Rob says:
yes i am

Gram bring the conversation back to war as I SG...good teammates and all!
Harriet says:
So, do you feel prepared for your war with TNT, Rob?
Harriet says:
It's awfully early to start one
Rob says:
yep, we got all upgrades up and running
Harriet says:
Wonderful!!!
Rob says:
it is, but thats what tnt wanted
Harriet says:
We'll be in your corner cheering for you
Rob says:
we though it was pretty stupid to start a war this soon
Harriet says:
agree with that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rob says:
i mean it basic killed our chance of winnig the game, as well as theirs, but we will be happy just to beat them
Rob says:
3rd isn't so bad
Harriet says:
Yes, it will be harder for both of you to recover
Whomp says:
it's always a risk with humans profound commentary, huh? :crazyeye:
Rob says:
given the logistics involved it will take a long time to win, which means a lot of resources going into units instead of cities
Harriet says:
I've never played against a human before. I guess you can't count on peace after 10 turns or so.
Whomp says:
they think different that the AI
Rob says:
thats true, but given the circumstances anyone could see that a war this early would be a disadvantage, even a fairly short one
Whomp says:
so true
Harriet says:
Their team is just very strange, IMO
Whomp says:
Provo has been missing though
Harriet says:
Maybe they fed him to the barbs. that's funny Gram :lol:
Rob says:
i think provo to blame for the start and now it seem they are trying to go through with that decision
Harriet says:
At least they've muzzled him...thank goodness.
Whomp says:
brb
Rob says:
they haven't discover a tech since turn 35, so you can image were their resources are going
Harriet says:
All into immortals?
Glib discussion and Fe has informed me that Donut is doing the same.
Rob says:
yep and a GL prebuild we think
Harriet says:
I just watch and try to learn something.
Rob says:
it good experience, i've learnt a few thing myself. In the end it only helps you become a better player
Harriet says:
It's sure a good way to hear different people's opinions on strategy
Whomp says:
Big picture!
Rob says:
yes, it always good to see other peoples ideas
Harriet says:
Even in a succession game there's not enough time to ask a lot of questions.
Harriet says:
This moves so slowly, you can ask all you want.
Rob says:
thats right, it gives you a chance to observe all the mechanics and get to hear everyones ideas
Whomp says:
you guys have some talent too
Rob says:
yes, but they are all playing civ4 atm
Harriet says:
Sadly, I think that's true for us as well
Rob says:
not that it matters too much we already had a strategy worked out for the war
Harriet says:
It's sure been a lot more quiet lately
Rob says:
i think thats true for all teams. I'm sure once the inital novelty wears off a bit, the players will return
Harriet says:
I hope so.
Whomp says:
i'm sg'ing now on another pc :D hehe
Harriet says:
Multi-tasking again, Whomp???
Whomp says:
and football too
Whomp says:
and holly asking me to grab the dogs
Harriet says:
Wow! You've got your hands full.
Rob says:
well my lunch break nearly over, so i'm going to have to go. It been gret talking to both of you
Harriet says:
Tell Holly hello
Harriet says:
Nice to meet you Rob!
Whomp says:
Bye Rob
Whomp says:
keep us up to date
Harriet says:
bye Rob
Harriet says:
good luck
Rob says:
talk to you soon
Rob says:
thanks
Harriet says:
give 'em hell
Rob says:
we will

Admiral Kutzov

Nov 14, 2005, 09:22 PM

:salute: to scout

I have an idea. what if we let TNT complete the Glib and then take it away with the GS SoD we just happen to have parked on the other continent. Or has Igor been into the hops too much (again?)

Whomp

Nov 14, 2005, 09:31 PM

:evil: No that's exactly what we want! Let them get it slowly and after we're in a government. I think we could potentially make a deal for masonry and their future research on lit (then mia can go somewhere else after Map making) for writing and philo. Just a thought....not 100% on this though.

Daghdha

Nov 15, 2005, 02:28 AM

If we wait with snatching the GLib after they've completed it, they will still get all the techs up til that moment. We have no use of it ourselves, so why not scout where it's pre-built and then raze that city. It will leave them in the stone age forever. On the other hand it would make for a nice comic effect to let them complete it, then capture it and then raze it in front of them.

barbslinger

Nov 15, 2005, 09:47 AM

gmaharriet

Nov 22, 2005, 01:39 AM

@Whomp Have you talked with Robi recently? I've noticed the comments in the main Turntracker thread about how much fun Dnuts are having and Donzig sounds mucho unhappy. I opened the most recent save file and couldn't see a thing, though I know war was imminent.

Daghdha

Nov 22, 2005, 04:37 AM

As long as we raze it the turn it is built. That timing is precarious. I would rather raze it when the opportunity is there. That day is a ways off though. I take that as if you garee with me that razing the build city in good time before the GLib is completed is the way to go? Anyway, by the look of the goings Nuts is the possible builders of the bookstore. Maybe we should have Bede just walk in there and sell all the stuff to barbs?

Whomp

Nov 22, 2005, 10:00 AM

Gram I think we will notice on the F11 this turn. I think they are battling finally. :banana:

From what Doughnut has said they are perfectly content to lose the game as long as TNT does not exist so I think we are just starting.

Tubby Rower

Nov 23, 2005, 06:26 AM

I talked to Robi last night... below is the edited conversation but basically... D'nut killed 3 immortals that were atop a hill with presumably mounted warriors. D'nut is expecting to pump MW's out during their GA. TNT is NOT in a GA because they haven't attacked with an immortal. D'nut is apparently still clueless about our involvement with MIA

Tubby Rower says:
I heard of your victories
Tubby Rower says:
Donsig didn't sound to pleased with the last two turns
Rob says:
no, we whipped their backside on t64
Tubby Rower says:
3-0 I heard... is that right?
Rob says:
yeah we took out 3 of there immos who had come down for some coffee
Tubby Rower says:
I was telling Whomp earlier that immortals are just spearmen when you attack them
Tubby Rower says:
easy peasy japanesey
Rob says:
i think what got donsig dejected was that they were on a hill
Tubby Rower says:
how close to their cities are you?
Tubby Rower says:
hahaha
Rob says:
not very, we were focused on defence but we have some warriors lurking around
Tubby Rower says:
If we could provide you with a view of their capital, what would that be worth to you guys?
Rob says:
should have a squad of MW ready in a couple of turns to go and say hi
Rob says:
um, are we allowed to do that before map making
Tubby Rower says:
talked to GA & RM and they said yes as long as you have the technology to do the same thing (ie Writing)
Rob says:
ahh, interesting didn't know that
Rob says:
well i don't know, i would have to talk to the team about it
Tubby Rower says:
OK get back to us.
Rob says:
we will
Tubby Rower says:
The screenie was from our embassy build in turn 63 I believe
Rob says:
yes we noticed you guys went on a spending spree
Tubby Rower says:
their strategy on managing their empire is interesting to say the least
Tubby Rower says:
we wanted to check up and see if anyone needed anything
Rob says:
their strategy for the whole game has been odd, we even started thinking they might not be going for a GL
Tubby Rower says:
GL = great leader or great library?
Rob says:
library
Tubby Rower says:
TNT would be the worst team to get the library
Tubby Rower says:
I hope that no one would be foolish enough to build it
Rob says:
we were looking at getting it ourselves to stop them but the team decided to pump out more MW to send to convince them it not a good idea
Tubby Rower says:
400 shields is a lot to invest in something that could bring a flurry of units on your shores from all 3 teams
Tubby Rower says:
an early GL build could have been very powerful and a threat to all teams
Rob says:
it could, need map making first though
Tubby Rower says:
HAve you dealt with the MIA crowd yet?
Rob says:
well we have tried to work out the strategy and so far we have discounted all the logical possibilities we could think of
Tubby Rower says:
I've tried talking to them.....
Rob says:
had a talk with them, nothing solid though
Rob says:
they wanted HBR for masonry, but we popped masonry so we haven't come to any agreements about other deals as of yet
Tubby Rower says:
Has anyone told you of the TNT worker that we saw mining a hill?
Tubby Rower says:
We still lack Masonry
Rob says:
yes, and our boat saw the mine when we went past
Tubby Rower says:
funny studd
Tubby Rower says:
*stuff
Rob says:
maybe they were expecting a GA
Tubby Rower says:
they haven't beaten one of your units with a Immortal yet?
Rob says:
you guy don't even need masonry
Rob says:
no
Tubby Rower says:
we will eventually
Tubby Rower says:
that's funny that they are wasting worker turns
Rob says:
we noticed mia don't even have iron hooked up
Rob says:
i seriously doubt they will hoplite rush you guys
Tubby Rower says:
haha
Tubby Rower says:
they don't need iron
Rob says:
yeah it is a waste, but then maybe they expected to steamroll us with immos
Tubby Rower says:
their score is dippping a bit
Rob says:
tnt score?
Tubby Rower says:
yes
Tubby Rower says:
sorry
Tubby Rower says:
jsut in acceleration thogh not in actual values
Rob says:
yeah, their not on the pace, we are slowly catching them
Rob says:
as is mia
Tubby Rower says:
I was worried when they overtook you guys back ~turn 30
Rob says:
they must have had a few settlers when they attack us
Tubby Rower says:
that's sad that they screwed with you guys early on
Tubby Rower says:
at least it hasn't hurt you too bad
Rob says:
yes, its taken both of us out of the game really
Rob says:
to win it i mean
Tubby Rower says:
Nah, you guys are still ok
Tubby Rower says:
I guess it relly depends on how long they want it to last
Tubby Rower says:
or if you guys go for the jugular
Rob says:
no we can't we, the war going to take to much production out of other things and it isn't going to be quick either, the shortest distance from border to border is still 18 tiles
Tubby Rower says:
they MIGHT beg for peace after the immortal slaughter
Tubby Rower says:
3-0 on a hill.... that's hilarious
Rob says:
they haven't yet, its like their sticking to their guns for better or worse
Tubby Rower says:
I guess they are ready for civ4
Rob says:
the best part is we lost 4HP's to their 10
Tubby Rower says:
so what's coming out of your GA victory party?
Rob says:
lots of MW's, we are looking to go on the attack now
Rob says:
some gold would be nice too
Tubby Rower says:
good luck with it. How close did you say the raiding party was?
Rob says:
well a squad of MW will be ready in 2 turns, it will take about 10 or so to reach them, so a while yet, we don't want to leave ourselves open in case a group of immo's is lurking in the fog somewhere
Rob says:
nearby
Tubby Rower says:
smart
Tubby Rower says:
the 2 movement in a well connected core could defend almost all of the cities against a stack with prolly 3 MWs
Rob says:
but we have warrior scout checking out the terrian near them
Rob says:
yes and we have some swords as back ups
Rob says:
they wont be surprising us again
Tubby Rower says:
we saw that they took a worker from you guys
Rob says:
yes, thats how they announced their intension to go to war
Tubby Rower says:
that's silly
Tubby Rower says:
they are IND
Tubby Rower says:
it's not like they needed some workers
Rob says:
what can you do, i guess they though we would be easy to beat
Rob says:
don't know why
Tubby Rower says:
your high score suggested that no military
Rob says:
i also dont understand why they haven't researched anything since we met them
Tubby Rower says:
can Whomp re-join
Tubby Rower says:
?
Rob says:
yes sure

Whomp has been added to the conversation.

Rob says:
yeah we only had some warriors, nothing special, but its not like they had a whole bunch of units either
Whomp says:
I'm back
Whomp says:
phew
Rob says:
the only reason we can think of that they attacked was because they were pissed off about the whole city renaming thing
Tubby Rower says:
who started that?

Whomp has left the conversation.

Rob says:
i think mia noticed and asked what was going on
Rob says:
and it blew up from there
Tubby Rower says:
boy did it

Whomp has been added to the conversation.

Tubby Rower says:
wanna try this again Whomp?
Whomp says:
sorry
Rob says:
it didn't have to, but provo got offended
Rob says:
it ok whomp
Whomp says:
oh boy...someone offended provo?
Rob says:
we were talking about how the war got started
Tubby Rower says:
the whole city renaming thing
Tubby Rower says:
Mia apparently started it
Tubby Rower says:
and D'nut got caught in the cross fire
Whomp says:
well that sucks
Rob says:
they noticed it in the f11 screen and asked what was happening
Rob says:
had provo stayed calm and rational the rest of the argument would not have happened
Whomp says:
now he's nowhere to be found in any of the public threads
Rob says:
i dont think his logged in for a while
Whomp says:
interesting...
Rob says:
it would seem donsig the main man over there now
Whomp says:
have you read any of his pbem stuff?
Whomp says:
in his signature
Tubby Rower says:
you still there Rob?

Rob has left the conversation.

Daghdha

Nov 29, 2005, 04:10 AM

ARSE Igor's Hope is about to enter Doughnutian waters on its much celebrated journey around Rik's World. We should pm Nuts about this and announce our arrival, just for good manners.

Tubby Rower

Dec 01, 2005, 08:26 PM

chat with Robi tonite (well tomorrow for him)

Initial hellos
Rob says:
hi tubby how are you
Tubby Rower says:
hi
Tubby Rower says:
what's up?
Rob says:
work, work and more work, we are very busy in the run up to christmas
Tubby Rower says:
what business are you in?
Rob says:
electronics
Rob says:
we make circuit boards
Tubby Rower says:
ah
Tubby Rower says:
they're used everywhere
Rob says:
every wants the orders in before the holidays
Tubby Rower says:
of course
Tubby Rower says:
overtime?
Rob says:
lots
Rob says:
we've also had some problems with the machines, which figures
Rob says:
they only start playing up when theres lots to do
Tubby Rower says:
things always break when you need them to keep running
Rob says:
yes, murphy's law
Tubby Rower says:
you're in Aus. correct?
Rob says:
yes
Tubby Rower says:
so it's Friday for you
Tubby Rower says:
I still have to go to work tomorrow
Rob says:
yes !! cant wait for the weekend
Rob says:
although i might have to work sat morning
Tubby Rower says:
that's not cool
Rob says:
yeah i need some time off, hopefully we can finsh everything today
Tubby Rower says:
I always work better under pressure
Rob says:
me too, but it up to the machines now, if they don't play up anymore we should be able to finish all the jobs that are due
Tubby Rower says:
that's good

Now here is starts - I'm still "playing" like we don't like MIA, he asks if TNT has talked since their spanking

Rob says:
so how are things going at kiss
Tubby Rower says:
pretty good
Tubby Rower says:
MIA are trying to make deals with us
Rob says:
and with us too
Rob says:
and tnt from what we can tell
Tubby Rower says:
trying to play everyone I guess
Tubby Rower says:
how's the mounted army?
Rob says:
have tnt been more talkative with you guys since they got their ass kicked by us
Rob says:
good, our mw's are progressing nicely
Tubby Rower says:
a little
Tubby Rower says:
They keep sending techs via F4 and hoping that we offer them something that they like
Rob says:
interesting, they seem to have learnt some lessons from our previous encounter
Tubby Rower says:
that and they can't attack us
Rob says:
by the way now that i think of it, we wont need map of their capital, our warrior found it, it was some very interesting viewing
Tubby Rower says:
ah ok
Tubby Rower says:
I had forgot about that sorry
Rob says:
its ok, must say their tactics were interesting to say the least
Tubby Rower says:
have you figured out why they moved their capital
Rob says:
also noticed your boat sailing by, come to pick up some doughnuts
Rob says:
no, makes no sense to us
Tubby Rower says:
yes. we're just mapping out your beach
Rob says:
should be interesting to see their logic once the game is finished
Tubby Rower says:
it's quite lovely
Tubby Rower says:
I hope they open the forums later
Rob says:
thanks we try
Tubby Rower says:
the first 40 turns is the most interesting I'd say
Rob says:
they should i think once the game is finished
Rob says:
yes, i'd loved to see what provo strategy was
Rob says:
we've tried to figure it out but it makes no sense to us, the only thing we can think of is that they were hoping we would just fold
Tubby Rower says:
he has been silent recently
Tubby Rower says:
I wonder if they learned to
Rob says:
yes, maybe his team gagged him
Tubby Rower says:
It has been more pleasant

More about MIA
Rob says:
i just checked out the forum, why would mia request an extension before tnt has even played the turn?
Tubby Rower says:
dunno
Tubby Rower says:
I haven't heard anything from them
Tubby Rower says:
There's nothing that I know of that would need a delay.
Tubby Rower says:
HAdn't seen an invasion force of hopilites lately
Rob says:
strange, maybe donsig forgot to put their turn in but i cant see what the extension would be for
Tubby Rower says:
me either
Rob says:
hehe, hoplite invasion force, now that would be something i'd like to see
Tubby Rower says:
Nothing has been decided over here.
Rob says:
nor us
Tubby Rower says:
some on our team are wanting to trade with them, but I'm a bit leary
Rob says:
well we organised atrade with them, but that took some 12 turns of negotiations, so were not in a hurry to go there again
Tubby Rower says:
We've been researching Republic so we have nothing new to trade

and about Republic (I figured that it was ok to tell them about the initial min run to "protect" ourselves from MIA :D
Rob says:
you guys would be getting close to finishing rep
Tubby Rower says:
~15 or 16 turns
Tubby Rower says:
we ran min for a little bit to get some cash to upgrade some warriors to protect us against MIA
Tubby Rower says:
we're at max now

MIA-D'nut war..... stay tuned

Rob says:
does mia have anything to hurt you with
Tubby Rower says:
dunno
Rob says:
apart for hoplites
Tubby Rower says:
Just have seen the occasionally scouting warrior
Hut startegies and map dynamicsTubby Rower says:
apparently they've been busting huts with warriors instead of planting a city right next to it
Rob says:
interesting strategy
Tubby Rower says:
we're getting ready to pop the last hut that we know of with a city
Tubby Rower says:
you know that if you plant a city within a tile of a goodie hut that no barbs come forth?
Rob says:
we popped some with warriors but that because they were near tnt so we figured we had nothing to lose
Rob says:
yes that what we have done
Rob says:
still didn't get much from them
Tubby Rower says:
we've got maps, gold mostly, but I think that we got a couple of techs early on
Rob says:
got gold once, maps a couple of times and masonry, other then that barbs
Rob says:
but the barbs were near tnt so it didn't bother us
Tubby Rower says:
you guys have a ton of jungle in the middle?
Rob says:
yes, i guessing you guys do to
Tubby Rower says:
you ought to keep TNT around to clear it for you as a payment for peace
Tubby Rower says:
yes we do as well
Rob says:
hehe that would be good
Rob says:
it seems the islands are any inverted mirror image of each other
Tubby Rower says:
yes we noticed that early on.
Tubby Rower says:
so you guys have wines aroung your core
Rob says:
yes
Rob says:
and tnt and mia have ivory
Tubby Rower says:
do you have furs by the straight by MIA?
Rob says:
yes there are furs there
Tubby Rower says:
we have 2 as does TNT
Tubby Rower says:
we're thinking of stealing theirs
Tubby Rower says:
but we need MMing from MIA
Rob says:
hehe, go for it
Rob says:
do they have it
Tubby Rower says:
yes for a couple of turns now
More about MIA

Tubby Rower says:
we won't be able to trade until we get Republic though
Tubby Rower says:
I'm concerned about their free tech going into the next age
Rob says:
really, i asked them about doing a MM deal and they said they weren't doing it atm
Tubby Rower says:
I wonder if they are planning an invastion of you guys since you're fighting TNT.
Rob says:
sorry brb
Tubby Rower says:
ok
Rob says:
sorry about that phone call, so you think there teaming up with tnt
Tubby Rower says:
didn't they just trade a couple of things with TNT?
Tubby Rower says:
dunno really I haven't talked to MIA in a while
Rob says:
i think they traded for maths, but i wonder why they would want to get involved in the war
Tubby Rower says:
well they headed for MMing so they could be...
Rob says:
that just leaves them more open to your gallics
Tubby Rower says:

Tubby Rower says:
problem is the jungle
Rob says:
once you get past the jungle is all wide open
Rob says:
especailly if you can blind side them
barbsTubby Rower says:
with the impending new age barb uprisings are going to suck
Rob says:
yeah but withh all the territory at least they wont be coming from all direction
Tubby Rower says:
we have a couple of satelitte cities that could feel the most of the force
Rob says:
hmmm, there's still a while to go yet before we get to MA
Tubby Rower says:
yes a little while. maybe about 30 more turns depending on who trades what.
Rob says:
well i better get back to work, lunch is over. it been good talking to you, i'll catch up with you later
Tubby Rower says:
ok
Tubby Rower says:
have a good day
Rob says:
thanks, you too

Admiral Kutzov

Dec 01, 2005, 08:57 PM

to paraphrase Buzz Lightyear "You are a strange evil little man" :rotfl:

Tubby Rower

Dec 02, 2005, 05:37 AM

I'm not good at real diplo, but I know enough about words & their definitions to be able to be an effective misinformation & discontent spreader. I don't think I said anything inaccurate in the above conversation, just misleading :mischief:

Whomp

Dec 09, 2005, 12:37 AM

If we can get them to go poly and something else this could work out pretty well. We should see if MIA wants on board with this. As long as they are willing to work with us at tech parity including their free tech somehow. So a seal walks into a club... says:
hey whompy
Whomp says:
hey dude
Whomp says:
another scary clown
So a seal walks into a club... says:
yeah i got a new computer and so i lost the old pic and had to find a new one
So a seal walks into a club... says:
slightly different
So a seal walks into a club... says:
so hows life in Kiss land
Whomp says:
Obviously we've had issues playing saves. lol
So a seal walks into a club... says:
did you? oh i dont pay attention to that kinda stuff
So a seal walks into a club... says:
there is a war on you know
Whomp says:
yes how's it going
Whomp says:
any news?
Whomp says:
anyone talking yet?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
same old same old, some talks of peace but they fell over, havent had any big battles lately or anything i think we might of killed someone the other day
So a seal walks into a club... says:
you know that kinda stuff casual war
So a seal walks into a club... says:
when are you guys jumping in?
Whomp says:
when we get boats
So a seal walks into a club... says:
see how far i am behind everything i thought we had them
Whomp says:
no galleys yet
So a seal walks into a club... says:
we have them searching thats how we meet you
So a seal walks into a club... says:
does anyone have them?
Whomp says:
curraghs
Whomp says:
don't think so
Whomp says:
tnt is ancient they don't know anything
Whomp says:
MIA might
Whomp says:
and you guys don't right?
Whomp says:
map making
So a seal walks into a club... says:
na, but there has been some controverys lately about MIAs Map making ability the papers were all over it i try to keep up witht the news but not really
So a seal walks into a club... says:
how do you know MIA have map making
So a seal walks into a club... says:
?
Whomp says:
I don't.
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Tubby seems to think MIA have Map making
Whomp says:
what are you researching now?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
wait a sec
So a seal walks into a club... says:
ill look
Whomp says:
hmmm...he may have noticed on civ assist
Whomp says:
they prolly do
So a seal walks into a club... says:
cant find what we are researching but we got a happy hut
So a seal walks into a club... says:
*opens up our Kiss folder*
Whomp says:
i'm writing in OT now about chicago food.
So a seal walks into a club... says:
brb
So a seal walks into a club... says:
last time you said you wanted a offer for Currency
Whomp says:
republic
Whomp says:
we don't have currency
So a seal walks into a club... says:
oh yeah
So a seal walks into a club... says:
thats what it says
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what kinda thing were you looking for
Whomp says:
techs for republic.
So a seal walks into a club... says:
like what
Whomp says:
currency
Whomp says:
construction
So a seal walks into a club... says:
stright swap
Whomp says:
lit
Whomp says:
maps
Whomp says:
poly
So a seal walks into a club... says:
litriture for republic?
Whomp says:
and?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
do you mean you need more than just Literiture? the libery tech? the tech that makes techs?
Whomp says:
republic is a long research cycle
Whomp says:
it is very valuable
So a seal walks into a club... says:
yeah about maths and Literiture (tell me when i get the word right)
Whomp says:
we'd like currency with some others
Whomp says:
if MIA has researched map making I'd think we'd want that from them
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Currency, Literiture, Maths = Republic
Whomp says:
we are working on maths
Whomp says:
trade
So a seal walks into a club... says:
just a question who do you talk to at MIA? i havent been able to get in contact with them
Whomp says:
Fe3333au
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i sent him a message but no reply and he dosent have MSN
Whomp says:
he's from Tasmania
Whomp says:
AIM
So a seal walks into a club... says:
have you got masonry?
Whomp says:
yes
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what about currency and Litriture for republic
Whomp says:
Hmm...
Whomp says:
let me look at the beakers
Whomp says:
actually i don't have them do you?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
nope
Whomp says:
k
So a seal walks into a club... says:
but i could find them
Whomp says:
our geeks have them somewhere
Whomp says:
iirc republic is 640 beakers
So a seal walks into a club... says:
whats currency and litritute like
So a seal walks into a club... says:
also beakers arnt a exact value at all times, we are in a war so republic isnt that valuable
Whomp says:
hmm i'd think anyone would want out of despot
Whomp says:
would you go poly to monarchy?
Whomp says:
we could be interested in that
Whomp says:
i know we'd be interested in that
So a seal walks into a club... says:
how can one of us have monarchy if we dont have poly
So a seal walks into a club... says:
so what did you mean?
Whomp says:
poly first
So a seal walks into a club... says:
poly in exchange for
Whomp says:
republic with....
Whomp says:
poly with something
So a seal walks into a club... says:
are so your republic for our poly? is that what your saying'
Whomp says:
poly with a tech
Whomp says:
the beakers don't match
So a seal walks into a club... says:
poly and litritutre
Whomp says:
i don't have them but i know they don't
Whomp says:
let me bring that to the team
So a seal walks into a club... says:
just to clarify the current deal we are talking is Our Poly and Lit for your Republic
Whomp says:
yes let me look to see if that's of interest
So a seal walks into a club... says:
how long does that take?
Whomp says:
we are still a ways away
Whomp says:
i think 14-16 turns
So a seal walks into a club... says:
ahh, well the time it takes the Dougnut citizens to decide anything that will make sense
Whomp says:
heh
Whomp says:
ok well let's show that to our teams and see what the thoughts are.
So a seal walks into a club... says:
ok do you have the beaker amounts for each?
Whomp says:
i don't here.
Whomp says:
wrong pc
Whomp says:
lol
So a seal walks into a club... says:
ok some one over here can figure that out, and see if your swinderling me
Whomp says:
of course i am
Whomp says:
how else would idiots think?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
other than that, what about some sort of non-agression freindship treaty between us Kiss are acutally pretty popular over here
Whomp says:
We should probably do something about that.
Whomp says:
I will work on that too
Whomp says:
you as well
Whomp says:
we can come back with our counters
Whomp says:
counteroffers that is
Whomp says:
no deal goes down without a little haggling for fun
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Because we are at war with TnT and Mia are being quite really we are both agricultural nations, based around highly mobile units, plus religous Meelet and the great doghnut are probably just different names for the same deity
Whomp says:
maybe a 1g bet on how many immortals you kill every century or so.
So a seal walks into a club... says:
lol
So a seal walks into a club... says:
not as much as you might think after our mobile units tear up their iron mines, the immortals will stop
So a seal walks into a club... says:
(just a joke in no way related to our operations)

Whomp

Dec 12, 2005, 06:30 PM

Round and round we go where it stops "Nobody of Donuts" knows. The best that came of this conversation is they are interested in a mutual protection deal, immortals on nearby on mountains and that their peace terms fell through.
So a seal walks into a club... says:
hey whompy
Whomp says:
hey what's up there kid. how's the toothfus
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i socut where is was is it still saw, and there is something sharp in it i cant get out, it isnt a bit og tooth because the tooth came out whole

So a seal walks into a club... says:
hows Kiss?

admiral kutzov has been added to the conversation.

Whomp says:
funny you should say I was just talking to AK about that very thing
So a seal walks into a club... says:
has there been much feedback about the trade or freindship pact
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i know
So a seal walks into a club... says:
it seemed automatic
So a seal walks into a club... says:
like i said kiss and he jumped in
admiral kutzov says:
what are we discussing/
Whomp says:
friendship and trades
admiral kutzov says:
? dammit, i have trouble with ?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what do your people think
Whomp says:
I think we are all for friendship
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what would it say
admiral kutzov says:
lay it out for me in small words
Whomp says:
the trade is something we are holding out for
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what happened to Lititure and Poly for Republic
Whomp says:
i don't think we can do that
Whomp says:
AK keep talking i'll brb in 10
So a seal walks into a club... says:
do you have any other trade in mind
Whomp says:
We are looking at max return on republic
admiral kutzov says:
nobody, i'm the village idiot , so use small words
So a seal walks into a club... says:
how about Horsebackridding into the mix
So a seal walks into a club... says:
the public at home never expected the Lit &poly deal to work, i just did cause whomp made it sound likey
admiral kutzov says:
just want to make sure I'm clear. you're donuts?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
yeah and you are kiss right
admiral kutzov says:
correct, one step at a time here
So a seal walks into a club... says:
lol
admiral kutzov says:
like i said before, i'm the village idiot, but my team will honor my deals
So a seal walks into a club... says:
how about all your citys for military allaince against TnT
admiral kutzov says:
nice try. rotfl
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Whats your capital
admiral kutzov says:
we chatted the other night, but i was even drunker
So a seal walks into a club... says:
lol
So a seal walks into a club... says:
drunker
admiral kutzov says:
that's it.
Whomp says:
here's the thing
admiral kutzov says:
our capital. same as always, our first city.
admiral kutzov says:
small words
Whomp says:
you don't want republic now anyhow
So a seal walks into a club... says:
whats the name, i want to say a quote
So a seal walks into a club... says:
whys that?
admiral kutzov says:
i'm an idiot
Whomp says:
you're in a GA
Whomp says:
golden age AK
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i got the quote, so whats your capital?
admiral kutzov says:
probably. I'm dilatory in my attention to this game
Whomp says:
we also feel we can fill the tech tree with a trade
admiral kutzov says:
our capital has not moved. if you need the specific name, give me five and I'll get it for u
Whomp says:
We are behind techs since we are researching republic
Whomp says:
does that make sense?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
How long is Kiss going to pretend, that the world is not at war? From Ironlands you have been described as a nation of weaklings and playboys who hire Doughnut or Barbains, to do our fighting for us We've been trained to think we're invincible, and our people think Provolution and his TNT thugs are the Doughnuts problem We have to do more Does anyone think that victo
admiral kutzov says:
i'm something of a joke in KISS. everyone likes the village idiot, but he's too ...
So a seal walks into a club... says:
s possible without facing danger? At times like these we all need to be reminded who we truely are That we will not give up That we will not give in
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i didnt need your capital
admiral kutzov says:
nobody, don't get paranoid when I say I have to feed the barbs. My sons are hungry. 12 and 8
Whomp says:
but peace is easy. we like you guys and you have good smilies
says:
Linebacker likes lots of food
So a seal walks into a club... says:
well we got some more techs we have been talking about trading you, the people back home seem to want Republic
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Is your son a linerbacker?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
linebacker
Whomp says:
i'm wondering why? you can't use it for awhile with a GA underway
So a seal walks into a club... says:
dont you guys really want to trade it?
admiral kutzov says:
my son has a civ name. Linebacker. he's 12
admiral kutzov says:
brb, feed the barbs
So a seal walks into a club... says:
if he named his kid sid, i am going to
Whomp says:
ak's pocketbook after feeding those boys
So a seal walks into a club... says:
lol
admiral kutzov says:
damn straight
Whomp says:
so if you are researching poly would you consider monarchy next?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
eh your rich enough to have a computer so who cares
admiral kutzov says:
nobody, we've been dancing. what would u give us for rep?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
so Poly & Monarchy for republic?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i dont know if we are researching that way
Whomp says:
are you considering monarchy? it's not required btw
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i know
admiral kutzov says:
do I look that dumb. I may act that way but..
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i wish our Internal console would keep us up to date on things like science
admiral kutzov says:
time for a civil war
So a seal walks into a club... says:
lol
Whomp says:
yeah what you guys communism there?
admiral kutzov says:
that made no sense
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Nah we are a democracy, or sorts
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what are you guys
admiral kutzov says:
anarchist
Whomp says:
anarchists
So a seal walks into a club... says:
intel says your a dictatorship
So a seal walks into a club... says:
hows it work
So a seal walks into a club... says:
brb
So a seal walks into a club... says:
lunch
admiral kutzov says:
all of us have power to make deals. if one of us ****s up (pardon the french), the others still go along
admiral kutzov says:
this almost got me banned but the team was still behind me
So a seal walks into a club... says:
lol cool
So a seal walks into a club... says:
who plays the turn
admiral kutzov says:
the smart peeps
admiral kutzov says:
the one's who played Mag 7+1 in SG land
So a seal walks into a club... says:
over here we elect a foreign, a internal and a turn player
So a seal walks into a club... says:
right
admiral kutzov says:
sounds like a cluster ****
So a seal walks into a club... says:
but trades and treatys need ratifycation
So a seal walks into a club... says:
so what would you say is a acceptable trade for Republic
admiral kutzov says:
not in our world
So a seal walks into a club... says:
we have masonry as well
Whomp says:
got it
admiral kutzov says:
need to pause so my wife can yell at mee
Whomp says:
oops
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what
Whomp says:
yelling by wives is not good
So a seal walks into a club... says:
better than hitting
admiral kutzov says:
k the barbs are fed
admiral kutzov says:
where were we
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what do you guys want for republic
admiral kutzov says:
what will you give?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
we have Litriture (we got it for free ) Poly soon, and horseback ridding
admiral kutzov says:
she's yelling at me
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what about Lit, Poly and next tech
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what did you do?
admiral kutzov says:
don't ask
admiral kutzov says:
she can see
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Oh i am a fat divorcee from Texas in love with you AK
So a seal walks into a club... says:
and your wife dosent know
So a seal walks into a club... says:
hehehe
admiral kutzov says:
now you're scaring me
So a seal walks into a club... says:
lol
So a seal walks into a club... says:
whats MIA offering?
admiral kutzov says:
I need to sign off now will get back on in about an hour
So a seal walks into a club... says:
cya

admiral kutzov has left the conversation.

says:
they are developing a plan
So a seal walks into a club... says:
for what
Whomp says:
republic
So a seal walks into a club... says:
you mean a offer?
Whomp says:
we are exploring all offers and trying to fill gaps
So a seal walks into a club... says:
ahh
So a seal walks into a club... says:
you should speak to TnT they got currency
Whomp says:
they seem to have a lot to offer. how did they get so far ahead in tech?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
of course they are also backstabbing agressive bugger
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what else do they have?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i know they have writing and currency
So a seal walks into a club... says:
maybe there Great Libeary is finished?
Whomp says:
not tnt but mia is ahead
So a seal walks into a club... says:
oh we would know about that
So a seal walks into a club... says:
oh
Whomp says:
they seem to have traded a lot
So a seal walks into a club... says:
we havent heard from them in a while
Whomp says:
but you must've traded with them
Whomp says:
they can't research that fast
So a seal walks into a club... says:
oh yeah ages ago
says:
do you remember what?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
who are the meelet worshipers?
Whomp says:
everyone i thought
So a seal walks into a club... says:
ok
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i thought it was just you guys
So a seal walks into a club... says:
but now i noticed MIA mentioned it in their last letter
says:
lol
Whomp says:
that's good
Whomp says:
is tnt talking at all?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
with us? we were discussing peace terms but they fell threw,
Whomp says:
that's too bad.
So a seal walks into a club... says:
we were close to a peace deal but now it seems blood and iron will solve the dispute
So a seal walks into a club... says:
we just dont want to pay tribute to them
Whomp says:
how could they ask?
says:
i thought you guys were taking it to them
So a seal walks into a club... says:
at first they were beating us and we asked for peace, they had some outragous treaty then they invaded us with Immortals but we held them off, they offered us a fairer treaty but still demanding 2 techs, i personally was in favor but the people said no, TnT responds with another huge demand so basicly we feel we will have to settle it on the felid says:
i guess that's how you found out about currency.
So a seal walks into a club... says:
we have taken it to them, but we have stoped them a bit right now our units are surrounding their immortals who are on mountains our side our borders
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Yeah
So a seal walks into a club... says:
or maybe you guys told us? or MIA? cause robi just seemed to know
says:
i guess they're waiting for reinforcements
So a seal walks into a club... says:
yeah hoepfully, when they get off their hills we will kill them then they will sign a peace
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Although the worst thing for us (or them) would be if one of you guys got involved
says:
it could be something you could propose
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what you guys coming in?
says:
always an option for the right price
So a seal walks into a club... says:
I was thinking that maybe our freindship treaty could have a Gurantee of Neutrality in each others wars, But if we get attacked by two nations we will come to each others aid
WHomp says:
that could work
So a seal walks into a club... says:
cause MIA has the ships and habours now
Whomp says:
that's not good.
Whomp says:
will they trade map making to you?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Actually i was trying to write a treaty between us and i was using the Anglo-japanese allaince
So a seal walks into a club... says:
well they said they would but i havent heard from them since i got into office
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Do you think your people would agree to the mutal support terms, For us this really means that MIA would have to much to deal with if they declared war on us If we made it public it would hold them back
So a seal walks into a club... says:
I got a feeling you guys could beat MIA
Whomp says:
hmmm...
Whomp says:
let me table that
So a seal walks into a club... says:
then again, you could be playing us aswell
Whomp says:
we are idiots but we would honor any deal
So a seal walks into a club... says:
sorry
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i was looking for somthing
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i lost the treaty i was writing

admiral kutzov has been added to the conversation.

So a seal walks into a club... says:
wb
So a seal walks into a club... says:
has it been a hour
So a seal walks into a club... says:
you missed the whole war update
admiral kutzov says:
there's a war?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Where have you been
admiral kutzov says:
but I fed the barbs
admiral kutzov says:
feeding the barbs
So a seal walks into a club... says:
they must be pretty full
Whomp says:
any good huts for dessert?
admiral kutzov says:
pizza hut?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
lol
admiral kutzov says:
be gone for a bit while I reopen MSN
admiral kutzov says:
back, nevermind
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what is your ideal Trade for Republic, because if we can sign a Treaty as well the doughnut people may be willing to be genarous on the trade
Whomp says:
Ideal is for something beyond what is researched now.
Whomp says:
i think we will get a lot for republic
So a seal walks into a club... says:
So Poly, Lit and our Next trade
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i mean tech
Whomp says:
and we know you can't use it for awhile
So a seal walks into a club... says:
we are still researching Poly for a few turns
So a seal walks into a club... says:
would that be acceptable? Poly, Lit and next tech
admiral kutzov says:
don't forget HBR
So a seal walks into a club... says:
4 for 1?
Whomp says:
it's a government and really "the" government
So a seal walks into a club... says:
true
Whomp says:
long research cycle if you don't trade for it
Whomp says:
that's a lot of turns in a despot
So a seal walks into a club... says:
yeah
So a seal walks into a club... says:
so HBR, LIT, POLY plus a new tech
Whomp says:
we are backwards
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i will take that to the people if its acceptable to you
Whomp says:
but we'll be in a government
Whomp says:
what should we try to get from MIA then?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i dont know
So a seal walks into a club... says:
hey i got to go, people are yelling at me
So a seal walks into a club... says:
cya

So a seal walks into a club... has left the conversation.

Daghdha

Dec 18, 2005, 05:23 AM

Maybe we should re-read this conversation with Nobody of Nuts keeping in mind that MIA and Nuts might be friendlier than we think...

Whomp

Dec 19, 2005, 10:44 PM

I tried to be as vague as possible. If we decide to attack TNT then we can organize with Donut. If we attack MIA I'm not so sure we want Donut to be aware of this until it happens and how they can help us and us them.

So a seal walks into a club... says:
so you gonna ivade TnT or Mia
So a seal walks into a club... says:
? first?
Whomp says:
i'm not sure if either is in our best interest
Whomp says:
we don't have boats
Whomp says:
and roads
So a seal walks into a club... says:
no roads at all
Whomp says:
we are creating roads
Whomp says:
no we are working on some but those jungles will be a pain
So a seal walks into a club... says:
yeah
Whomp says:
if we attack tnt we'll need map making
So a seal walks into a club... says:
yeah
Whomp says:
it would help you to turn the tide for sure
Interesting...
So a seal walks into a club... says:
we got a feelin MIA might be about to hit us
Whomp says:
hmmm...
Whomp says:
why because of boats?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
they pulled up a navy force beside our city
Whomp says:
galleys?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
yep
Whomp says:
wow
Whomp says:
more than one?
Back to elusiveness on Nobody Donut's behalf...
So a seal walks into a club... says:
So KISS has our back if MIA declares war eh?
Whomp says:
I think we can work on putting together a plan.
Whomp says:
thing is i don't think tnt can afford to attack us
Whomp says:
mia can attack
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Huh?
Whomp says:
TNT is preoccupied with you
So a seal walks into a club... says:
yeah
Whomp says:
MIA is not at war with us so they're likely a bigger threat to pile on top of you
So a seal walks into a club... says:
but its not like you want to attack TnT
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Yeah
So a seal walks into a club... says:
what do you think about a screenshot idea?
Whomp says:
I don't think it's illegal.
Whomp says:
which screenshots would we exchange?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
You investigate TnT citys and send us the pictures
Whomp says:
Gotcha
So a seal walks into a club... says:
of course if you went to war, then we would return the favor
Whomp says:
I see.
Whomp says:
Do you see any advantage of us joining you against TNT?
Whomp says:
or do you want the whole continent?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
Nicer people as your allies, plus we are going to win
So a seal walks into a club... says:
the war i mean
So a seal walks into a club... says:
i dont know about the game
Whomp says:
are you approaching their cities?
So a seal walks into a club... says:
no, but hopefully if we bulid up we will be able too
Whomp says:
tough without roads
Whomp says:
tougher to build roads with immortals lurking about
So a seal walks into a club... says:
yeah
So a seal walks into a club... says:
sorry i got too go, the computer for other people
Whomp says:
ok we'll talk later

Own

Dec 20, 2005, 07:31 PM

You investigate TnT citys and send us the pictures
Whomp says:
Gotcha
So a seal walks into a club... says:
of course if you went to war, then we would return the favor

Clever clever clever, just check the ruleset to make sure it's legal.

So you suggest we, in exchange for not dogpiling, we give the embassy shot of TNT to dnuts? Will they accept? More importantly, will they decline and tell MIA of our scheme?

Daghdha

Dec 21, 2005, 03:26 AM

More importantly, will they decline and tell MIA of our scheme? This is my biggest fear ATM since I sense Nuts and MIA are not so afraid of each other as they eagerly pretend to be. I might of course be wrong about this (sorry for the second guessing Crackie ;) )

Whomp

Jan 10, 2006, 12:20 AM

Had a nice conversation with Rob from Donut last night. Some interesting stuff comes out the conversation.

He said they are researching monarchy and would be interested in trading it within 24ish turns. Nice timing!
TNT had a major offensive that they built roads through the jungle and failed miserably it seems. 10-1
He said that the TNT coastals are empty. Might be worth a look see.
MIA has landed a horse and warrior on Battle Island.

Rob says:
hi whomp, how have you been
Whomp says:
hey Rob where you been?
Rob says:
work, then holiday
Whomp says:
mia in a donut kind of way
Rob says:
hehe
Rob says:
yeah well i've been a bit lazy to since im not in charge of foreign affairs anymore
Whomp says:
just pounding on donsig instead
Rob says:
hehe, oh yeah
Whomp says:
stalled?
Rob says:
they lauched a major offensive
Whomp says:
whoa
Rob says:
and went nowhere
Whomp says:
were they building on the mountains?
Rob says:
no, they built a road through the jungle
Whomp says:
aha
Rob says:
not that it helped them
Whomp says:
still slow and those roads can go both ways.
Whomp says:
lol
Whomp says:
we'd like to help you guys even if it's token
Rob says:
lol yes they can, which is why i don't get why they would go to the effort of building them
Rob says:
the scoreline was 10-1 in our favour in the end
Whomp says:
is there any way we can distract them
Whomp says:
nice!!!
Whomp says:
good work
Rob says:
the retreat capability of the MW's is a big help
Whomp says:
sure is
Rob says:
well if you guy want to lauch an invasion your more than welcome to
Whomp says:
we'd need a lot of boat
Whomp says:
s
Rob says:
not really from what we can tell, the cities on the coast arn't well guarded
Whomp says:
do they have forward cities you could take if we help?
Rob says:
yes, we just need our MW's to heel up then we are planning a counter attack, one via the road and one via the west coast
Whomp says:
hmmm
Whomp says:
so if we come across from the east
Whomp says:
i get the feeling they are whipping the MoM city
Whomp says:
it's the only logical reason i can think to build it
Rob says:
actually if you came in from the west since it closer for you we could switch to the east side
Rob says:
yeah, we figured that was the only logical reason for the MoM
Whomp says:
Let me see what our military guys think
Whomp says:
they shoo shoo'd me when i suggested it
Rob says:
the other thing is MIA have been snooping around on our island as well
Whomp says:
with galleys?
Rob says:
yes, they dropped off some troops, we seen a warrior and a horseman so far
Whomp says:
hmmm
Whomp says:
that's interesting. trying to get a bird's eye view
Whomp says:
horse for speed
Rob says:
they say there exploring, but we seen there boat come a go a few times
Whomp says:
we noticed a settler is a weird spot
Whomp says:
in*
Rob says:
so how are you getting along with them
Whomp says:
we have peace and made a big trade
Rob says:
got a good deal out of it?
Whomp says:
but the team is very cautious around them
Rob says:
what are your research plans atm, we have started on monarchy
Whomp says:
we are looking at construction
Rob says:
would you guys be interested in a swap
Whomp says:
sure
Whomp says:
what would you be interested in?
Rob says:
i have no idea what there tech values are, i dont have the sheet on me but i sure they fairly similar
Whomp says:
i have them
Rob says:
ok
Rob says:
i pretty sure they are both 20-something
Whomp says:
republic at 735 after we discovered it
Whomp says:
monarchy is 720 beakers
Whomp says:
map making is 360
Whomp says:
construction is 600
Whomp says:
currency is 480
Rob says:
ok so they are fairly similar
Whomp says:
monarchy and republic are very close
Whomp says:
would you want it though?
Whomp says:
if you're going to monarchy?
Whomp says:
or do you have construction?
Rob says:
well republic would have been good but because of the war and the extra units we worked out we couldn't support it
Rob says:
we don't have constrution
Rob says:
or currency
Whomp says:
we are religious so monarchy could be valuable to us
Rob says:
ok, just throwing it out there as a suggestion as i would have to check back with the team, but how about monarchy for construction and currency and we throw in 30 gold on top
Whomp says:
let me throw that around. how soon do you think you can get it?
Rob says:
sorry i added it up wrong just a sec
Whomp says:
running to a govt. is expensive so we'd understand if we didn't get full beaker in return
Whomp says:
but i'm sure we'd ask for a little more
Whomp says:
i think we'll have construction in 12 or less.....unless we can trade for it.
Rob says:
i think i got it right this time, 80 gold
Whomp says:
how far along are you?
Rob says:
just started a few turns ago, still got 24 turns to go
Whomp says:
ok well that may work out well anyhow.
Whomp says:
i'd like to add some type of long term agreement with each other for peace.
Whomp says:
my preference is to have each of us left at the end
Rob says:
sure, we can do that
Rob says:
well, once we can finish off TNT, we should have plenty of troops left over to send accross the southern channel
Whomp says:
ok well we need to coordinate with our teams. I like the idea and maybe by throwing some Gallics at TNT would give them more to think about
Rob says:
that sounds good to me, i will talk to the team about the discussion and get something formal arranged
Whomp says:
is there anyone else if I can't get in touch with your or Nobody.....btw he's an idiot like us!
Whomp says:
you*
Rob says:
hmmm, daveshack would be the other main person, but you can always pm me, i check the forums nearly every day
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
me too
Whomp says:
i will get the team motivated
Rob says:
but i should be on more often now that i'm back from holidays
Whomp says:
cool
Whomp says:
ok well let me bring this to everyone. I will get them to put something on paper and pm you the first draft
Whomp says:
try to do the same so we can compare thoughts and plans
Rob says:
ok sure thing, i will post it for my team to have their say
Whomp says:
for sure
Rob says:
but all in all it sounds good to me
Whomp says:
me too
Whomp says:
i'd like to take you guys on at the end! lol
Rob says:
lol, and we would like to be there
Whomp says:
turn just passed by donsig
Rob says:
hehe, they been chasing our warrior on their border for ages now
Whomp says:
what for? stray...
Rob says:
he was just exploring and they didn't like it so he got 2 immos on his tail, hehe, i think its a waste of 2 immos personally
Whomp says:
right...
Whomp says:
oh well good for you!
Whomp says:
run him right into MW's
Rob says:
hehe that would give them a bit of a surprise
Whomp says:
ok well i should sleep past my bedtime!
Rob says:
sure no problem
Whomp says:
Bye Rob

Tubby Rower

Jan 10, 2006, 05:08 AM

wery intewesting..,...

barbslinger

Jan 10, 2006, 10:10 AM

I wouldn't mind a scout over there to clear some fog.

Daghdha

Jan 11, 2006, 12:21 AM

:crazyeye: !
Seems like a plan. Don't know if I'm that intersted in Mon tough...? If we don't trade Nuts techs we can easily stay ahead throughout the game and that will come in handy when the big showdown takes place. Mil alliance OTOH is crucial, but I think finishing off MIA without MW's on our continent would be best, especially since Nuts have "lots of units".
Also, a raxed city on TNT ground, soon, would be very much to my liking. I don't think any other team will focus on sea warfare, and in the long run we could have a huge advantage if we controlled the gap/s until Navigation. We could keep neighbours (read Nuts) in or out as we wished. I suggest we keep the initial agreement restricted to military.

Dear Dougnuts

Bla, bla, nuts...

Team KISS and Team Doughnut will not attack each other, or with military units support a third team attacking the other part. This agreement is valid until Team KISS and Team Doughnut are the only ones left in the MTDG.

All the Best
Team K.I.S.S.

Whomp

Jan 11, 2006, 08:45 AM

That works for me Daghie. Let's put it in place.

On the topic of monarchy our religion gives us the flexibility to change at any time. MIA in a republic will experience war weariness points like crazy. I think it's worth the cost to maintain a low lux rate and higher unit count.

Kickbooti

Jan 11, 2006, 03:15 PM

With the Nuts having 'many units,' I like the idea of smacking TNT better while be build up a home guard. Getting a beach-head on Battle Isle shouldn't be too tough, especially if Nuts are INVITING us to do that. An agreement to that end would be good.

In the meantime we build the core, build SoD's and sign peace with MIA.

If Nuts take out TNT they may just decide to keep going with a military victory TNT - MIA - US.

We should get some of Battle Isle, build the core, husband our miliitary. Nothing like MI and Pikes to discourage MWs.

Daghdha

Jan 11, 2006, 05:28 PM

I'm not too eager to split our forces. Clear home turf first, then a road trip.
Edit: Reason I say this is basically because Slinger and Scout, from a military viewpoint, thought that would be best.

gmaharriet

Jan 11, 2006, 05:38 PM

Just thinking out loud here. If we did want to fight on the other continent first, could we consider a fairly long-term peace agreement with MIA, perhaps through the MA, to stay at peace until the other continent has been cleared of TNT and D'nuts, then a certain number of turn of guaranteed peace.

It would be possible to do with the Middle Ages what we've done in the AA, sharing research. This would have to be a formal treaty filed with the admins.

Has this been considered?

Whomp

Jan 11, 2006, 06:30 PM

GramH --It seems our warmongers Scout and Slinger feel that is a little far fetched because of the amount of material we would have to bring to the picnic.

gmaharriet

Jan 11, 2006, 06:56 PM

Thanks, Whomp! Just thought I'd ask, because the cooperative research worked so well with (with a bit of arm-twisting negotiation). :hmm:

Daghdha

Jan 12, 2006, 07:07 AM

This is a mail we've sent to Doughnutia. Let's see how they respond to this, and then we can maybe extend our co-op. For the time being not ending up beneath a pile of dogs after we declare on MIA seems the most important thing.

Highly Esteemed People of Yummy Pastry

The Celtic tribe of Idiots has, after lengthy and vivid "discussions" involving a not so small amount of beer and snacks, come to the conclusion that co-operation with you good people would be a cool thing. We're not sure about the specifics of such a co-op, but since we're Way Cool Dudes we are thinking in the lines of Love, Peace and Harmony, focusing on Peace. Therefore we have scribbled down a modest proposal to which we await your reply. If we could sign this, it might be the beginning of a long and fruitfull partnership between our stupid and fat tribes, or at least a cause for downing a pint or two.
Here goes:

Team KISS and Team Doughnut will not attack each other, or with military units support a third team attacking the other part. This agreement is valid until Team KISS and Team Doughnut are the only ones left in the MTDG.

All the Best
Team K.I.S.S.

Pentium

Jan 12, 2006, 10:08 AM

That's good, if they accept ofcourse. I'd really like to see only us and Nuts left in the game, without any good reason.

Whomp

Jan 16, 2006, 07:55 PM

I told him it's been pretty quiet around here too.
Whomp,

Sorry we have not got back to you as yet but it appears most of the team is in holiday mode so discussion have gone slower then expected, however we have not forgotten about you guys and we will be in touch shortly. Thanks for your patience.

Robi D

Whomp

Jan 21, 2006, 12:24 AM

It seems Donut and TNT are talking peace. I asked for a peace agreement but didn't get any confirmation. That didn't give me a very good feeling.
Rob says:
hi whomp, how are you
Whomp says:
hold on rob helping gram harriet with the save
Rob says:
no probs
Whomp says:
i should have it to you in 10 minutes!
Rob says:
it ok, i was just trying to keep cool, it hot down here
Whomp says:
it's snowing like mad here!! lol
Rob says:
well it 45 here
Whomp says:
wow
Rob says:
i think thats like 118 F
Whomp says:
-4 ish here
Rob says:
pity we can't mix the 2 day together and get 20 odd
Rob says:
sorry we don't have an answer for you guys just yet, things have been moving slow in our team the past few weeks plus other things have come up to complicate matters
Whomp says:
everthing ok?

Rob says:
yeah, it just debeat seem to be wrapping up then we receieved a peace offer from TNT which was half decent, which mean a whole new debate started
Whomp says:
wow that's cool
Whomp says:
they are average compared to us
Rob says:
my preference is still your offer, but its a team game. Anyway i set a 48 hour limit on the debate so we should have a final decwsion by next turn
Whomp says:
that's cool you could use the peace
Rob says:
yeah, but my problem is 1, how much can we trust them and 2 how long we it take to come up with an offer that both of us agree to
Rob says:
the one thing everyone has agreed to is to do a tech swap between us if you guys are still interested in monarchy
Whomp says:
i think we could be interested still for sure
Rob says:
also do you guys have currency?
Whomp says:
we do
Rob says:
ok, no probs
Rob says:
we will have monarchy in 17 from the last turn
Whomp says:
moving along nice
Whomp says:
the save was just sent
Rob says:
yeah, pop increases plus some new towns have brought it down quickly, we have a couple more towns to put down so it will probably be soon then 17
Rob says:
so how are things with mia, we've noticed they gone on a bit of a expansion rush
Whomp says:
i'm coaching gram through this sorry
Rob says:
it ok, everyones new once
Whomp says:
chamnix is a very good player
Rob says:
yes he is
Whomp says:
he's got them on track big time
Whomp says:
their cranking out points
Rob says:
yeah we noticed them increase the points rate, and they coming in on your side of the jungle
Whomp says:
there's luxs
Rob says:
how does their military compare, everyone is weak to us atm so its hard to tell
Whomp says:
average
Whomp says:
they were weak so
Rob says:
your islands probably lucky that you have 1 def uu and 1 att uu, otherwise you might have been in the same boat as us
Whomp says:
they could've pillaged the crap out of us
Whomp says:
that was my fear if they were a neighbor
Rob says:
i suppose but they are pretty worried about those gallics, i think you guys have the best of the uu's
Whomp says:
they're expensive though
Rob says:
it there only weakness, but if you can crank some out they can be a very tricky opponent to beat
Whomp says:
well i'd like to get some elites out of the uprising
Rob says:
good luck, i don't think we've gotten a single promotion out of killing a barb
Whomp says: The Iroquois ain't so shabby.
Rob says:
yeah those mw's can come in pretty handy
Rob says:
they beaten those immo's back a few times now
Whomp says:
and the traits are monster
Rob says:
well hopefully we can you them a bit more now that TNT's been weakened, get us back in the running so to speak
Whomp says:
well we'd like to work with you guys
Rob says:
for sure, no matter what happens with tnt now we would like to work with you guys in the future, there's still a long way to go in the game
Whomp says:
for sure
Whomp says:
even a long term peace and trading
Whomp says:
brb
Rob says:
definately, we dont want mia getting ahead in techs
Rob says:
sorry whomp i have to head off now, but thanks for the chat. We will definately work together in the future. Also just checked the turn you guys sent, it works ok but its labeled 10 instead of 90. take care
Whomp says:
ok see ya

Daghdha

Jan 23, 2006, 10:52 AM

I think maybe we should talk more with Nuts about this and propouse one continent each and a space race scenario. The only good that would come to them by joining a dogpile vs us would be if they did a long term deal with MIA and decided on 1 continent each. That is more likely to happen if they join us isn't it?
If the 3-1 scenario is going to happen anyway I, once again, strongly suggest we build lots of naval units so we can block incoming enemies. Have Simpleton pop a harbour asap and then all costals do galleys for sea defence.

Whomp

Jan 23, 2006, 10:56 AM

The other advantage of blocking the waterways is it restricts lux trades between MIA and TNT if we are in the coastal tiles blocking the route. MIA really wants our wines and we don't need their ivory.

barbu1977

Jan 23, 2006, 12:25 PM

Hey all, I'm back.

I'm starting to worry about an attack on MIA if we do not have solid peace with D'nuts. We have not declared yet? right?

We need solid peace before declaring.

Daghdha

Jan 24, 2006, 01:41 AM

We intend to declare within a few turns...

Kickbooti

Jan 24, 2006, 06:54 AM

Do we have an official D'Nut rep? We need to copy Tubby's CivAssist screen and raise the level of indignation.

If the Nuts don't bite, then they are in on it and we must prepare for the dogpile.

Tubby Rower

Jan 24, 2006, 07:23 AM

This was sent just a few minutes ago
DS, Robi, & Nobody,

I'm sending this to you guys in case you don't already know about it. This is a screenshot from CivAssist2 take after our last turn. It appears as though the 2 scientific civs are trying to run away from us. TNT is requesting peace and is wanting to grow. MIA is preparing for war with us and has grown significantly in the past 20 or so turns.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2231/techs4qo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm not sure what to do about this, but we would like a long-term alliance with the people we fondly refer to as the Nutters. Due to MIA's aggressiveness, we might end up in a war (not our first choice). We hope that this might give you an opportunity to see the MIA and TNT civs for what they are. For you peace might be an option, but it looks like MIA is going to start attacking us soon. MIA has went behind our back before and they have screwed us once again.

Tubby of the Kissers

Tubby Rower

Jan 24, 2006, 08:05 AM

I realized that that screenshot might have spoiler info since S'nut is at war with TNT. So I sent another PM requesting (in the title and mesage) that the other message not be opened and warned of spoiler info.

I shot this message off to GA & RM for approval before it's sent out again.
GA & RM,

Can you verify that there is no spoiler information in this PM. I unknowingly sent a PM to the D'nut team that could possibly have spoiler info in it and then realized that it might have been spoilerish so I sent another PM requesting that the other one be deleted and that I'll send a scrubbed version.

Here is my PM that I'd like to send. Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3614503&postcount=116)is a link to the originial PM that I sent for reference.

Thanks,
Tubby
DS, Robi, & Nobody,

I'm sending this to you guys in case you don't already know about it. This is a screenshot from CivAssist2 take after our last turn. It appears as though the 2 scientific civs are trying to run away from us. TNT is requesting peace and is wanting to grow. MIA is preparing for war with us and has grown significantly in the past 20 or so turns.

MIA has traded a significant amount of techs to TNT for construction. They are both in the Middle Ages now and both have received their free tech.

I'm not sure what to do about this, but we would like a long-term alliance with the people we fondly refer to as the Nutters. Due to MIA's aggressiveness, we might end up in a war (not our first choice). We hope that this might give you an opportunity to see the MIA and TNT civs for what they are. For you peace might be an option, but it looks like MIA is going to start attacking us soon. MIA has went behind our back before and they have screwed us once again.

Tubby of the Kissers

Daghdha

Jan 24, 2006, 10:49 AM

Sending info to Nutters about the co-op between MIA-TNT was the very rightest thing to do Tubby, well done :goodjob:. Of course spoiler stuff should be out, but telling Nuts about the rep-constr. trade in plain text should be ok, right?

gmaharriet

Jan 24, 2006, 06:41 PM

Of course spoiler stuff should be out, but telling Nuts about the rep-constr. trade in plain text should be ok, right?
After all, we do have an embassy with them. Therefore verbal (written) discussion of what we know should be a part of diplomacy. That would certainly be done in the real world however slanted the info might be when presented to the other country.

Tubby Rower

Jan 24, 2006, 07:15 PM

Ok Both Regent and Ginger said that the screen shot was ok even though in the last PM I sent to Robi, DS, & Nobody didn't have it in there

Daghdha

Jan 25, 2006, 07:20 AM

I would like to send something like this to Nutters:

Dear blah, blah
We would like to alert You about the fact that donsig of the No-Namers has crowned himself Grand Vizeer of not only Persians but also over Iroquis. This is how he ended the last mail to us : Hope your war against the Greeks goes well.
TTFN

signed
donsig II
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples As we have shown earlier an alliance between TNT and MIA is obvious, and now we're wondering if Your unwillingness to sign a solid peace treaty with us means this alliance includes 3 members? The current save shows that You are still at war with TNT which makes that unlikely, but we would be delighted by some sort of gesture from Doughnutia showing our worries are indeed groundless.
In any case, TNT seems eager to tell us "we know you will attack MIA but you will fall flat", plus they wanna make it look like You guys have agreed upon having donsig as "Grand Vizeer". Make what You will of this, but our offer stands: Join us now and we will divide the world of Meleet in two equal halves.

Daghdha

Jan 25, 2006, 07:35 AM

After reading that Tubs wants us to send this info to Nutters I composed and sent this through gmail: Dear Doughnutians

We would like to alert You about the fact that donsig of the No-Namers has crowned himself Grand Vizeer of not only Persians but also over Iroquis. First we mused on the cockiness of the two top lines, but then the last line seemed even more interesting. This is how he ended the last mail to us :
Quote:
Hope your war against the Greeks goes well.
TTFN

signed
donsig II
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples

As we have shown earlier an alliance between TNT and MIA is obvious, and now we're wondering if Your unwillingness to sign a solid peace treaty with us means this alliance includes 3 members? The current save shows that You are still at war with TNT which makes that unlikely, but we would be delighted by some sort of gesture from Doughnutia showing our worries are indeed groundless.
In any case, TNT seems eager to tell us "we know you will attack MIA but you will fall flat", plus they wanna make it look like You guys have agreed upon having donsig as "Grand Vizeer". Make what You will of this, but our offer stands: Join us now and we will divide the world of Meleet in two equal halves.
If You, to our big disappointment, already have joined forces with MIA and TNT, that would of course mean Adios Amigos for KISS, but it would leave Doughnutia holding hands with two scientific civs which would be more of a gamble than joining us and go mano a mano.
Anyways, it's all up to You of course, but we would be pleased to get a clear cut respone on our proposal as soon as possible.

All the Best

Team K.I.S.S.

Tubby Rower

Jan 26, 2006, 09:06 PM

sent by PM
To the people of KISS
Greetings from Doughnutia,

I am writing to you to address the concerns you raised in your letter to us. Firstly Grand Poohbar donsig has been using that title for quite a while in his communications with us, desipte much teasing and poking fun at his assertions, yet he still chooses to use it. Why, we don't really know but we've gotten past caring as actions speak louder than words and their actions haven't gotten them anywhere.

Secondly as to our peace talks with TNT. These do not signal any long term plan to join with TNT, we are only trying to get a strategic advantage out of them, if it is possible, if not then we will continue our war.

Finally we have always had a good relationship with you, from when we first met. And we still feel this way today. We are still happy to trade technologies once we have aquired Monarchy and we are also hopeful of coordinating research into the future as their is a very real danger of being left behind MIA and TNT. Also we have not ruled out military cooperation in the future if and when it is needed.

Our people have developed a strong bond and it is our hope for that to continue long into the future. I hope these answers have put your minds as ease.

General Robi D of Doughnutia

Whomp

Jan 26, 2006, 09:37 PM

It may be worthwhile giving them techs so we have a research partner. As much as I hate doing that it would be helpful for us to have someone to work with.

Daghdha

Jan 27, 2006, 01:42 AM

Future tech co-op sounds good, but obviously military ditto will be interesting only when they feel like it. Well, well, let's say we appreciate their friendly attitude and, ehum....cheeers, like :rolleyes:

Whomp

Feb 02, 2006, 08:34 PM

Here is a very good conversation with Donut. I will edit as I go but I wanted to get it posted.
Rob says:
hi whomp, hows it going
Whomp says:
Hey Rob
Whomp says:
I'll put on my radioactive monkey hat
Rob says:
hehe, so what did you guys say to MIA, you've got them running scared

Eldest of Idiots has been added to the conversation.

Whomp says:
yeah what's up with the save being held up?
Whomp says:
This is admiral kutzov btw
Eldest of Idiots says:
issues
Rob says:
i have no idea
Rob says:
hi ak
Eldest of Idiots says:
hi rob
Whomp says:
It must be MIA

Eldest of Idiots says:
the ghost of provo?
Rob says:
i don't know about the save no one i speak too mentioned any problems
Rob says:
someone been meesing around with my settings
Whomp says:
well they held it up and my guess is it's MIA

Eldest of Idiots says:
why
Whomp says:
do you have to check the settings in advance?
Rob says:
ginger ale said it was something to do with the rules
Eldest of Idiots says:
GA is cool, i respect him
Rob says:
well i wrote the past tense of speak and got that smiley
Whomp says:
weird. i guess we'll see what comes of it
Whomp says:
We are pissed at MIA for gifting all those techs to TNT
Eldest of Idiots says:
big time
Rob says:
they sent a letter explaining to us they did it because they were scared ouf you
Whomp says:
I've thought we should do the same with you guys
Eldest of Idiots says:
me too
Whomp says:
we need a partner
Rob says:
well we are happy to trade for monarchy once we have it
Whomp says:
and one we trust
Whomp says:
i'm saying gifting you all our techs
Whomp says:
get us both out of the AA
Rob says:
are you guys up to the MA yet?
Eldest of Idiots says:
whomp, pause and let me talk a bit
Whomp says:
we will be there after construction
Whomp says:
ok
Eldest of Idiots says:
rob, u don't play SG's right?
Rob says:
SG is save games right, if so yes im the one
Eldest of Idiots says:
succesion games
Rob says:
ahh no i dont
Eldest of Idiots says:
k. If you look at KISS, most of us do.
Rob says:
yes i've noticed that
Eldest of Idiots says:
a big part of that is preserving our reputation
Eldest of Idiots says:
we make a deal we don't break ig
Eldest of Idiots says:
it
Rob says:
neither do we, we have always stuck to our deals
Eldest of Idiots says:
the point I wan't to make is that our history is out there in the SG threads. Pick a member and go research a thread. the deals are solid. RBC rules. u and whomp may now converse.
Eldest of Idiots says:
whomp u can talk now
Rob says:
i know ak, i've done my research on all our competion
Eldest of Idiots says:
cool
Rob says:
which is good for me, since i have any advantage in this area
Eldest of Idiots says:
how so?
Eldest of Idiots says:
no history?
Whomp says:
Donsig
Eldest of Idiots says:
don't get me started
Rob says:
exactly, unless you have player MP games with me no one really knows my style
Eldest of Idiots says:
where do u play MP?
Rob says:
online
Eldest of Idiots says:
hehe, I
Whomp says:
I've never played c3c online
Eldest of Idiots says:
idiot but not that silly
Whomp says:
but I have PBEM'd
Rob says:
well they are a bit of a rush but it does helping with learning to think on your feet
Eldest of Idiots says:
whomp lost to tubs really early
Rob says:
this is my first pbem, lol
Whomp says:
that was civ4
Eldest of Idiots says:
so?
Whomp says:
so i'm making excuses
Rob says:
pbems and mp are completely different creatures
Eldest of Idiots says:
I have a 3 map for u and tubs
Whomp says:
so where were we?

Eldest of Idiots says:
Rob, I'm an old idiot. Explain the difference, please
Rob says:
pbem you have all the time in the world to look at different options, you get the time to MM the hell out of everything, MP your on a clock with simutaneous moves you need to make quick and desicive desitions
Whomp says:
i like that about pitboss
Rob says:
in the end both forms of the game let you learn different skills
Eldest of Idiots says:
i think I understand
Whomp says:
I like them all.
Whomp says:
This has been interesting though a bit slow for most on our team's taste
Rob says:
yes, but i guess thats what happens when you have a team to discuss issues with
Eldest of Idiots says:
i resemble that remark
Eldest of Idiots says:
joke
Whomp says:
I know it's just that Succession games move pretty fast even with the discussion
Eldest of Idiots says:
agree
Rob says:
yes but thats still one team, not four
Whomp says:
but it's not as unpredictable as humans
Rob says:
thats true too, just look at TNT
Eldest of Idiots says:
I was just thinking that it will be fun to see what they're thinking was for they're opening moves
Eldest of Idiots says:
change they're to their
Whomp says:
it was because we were giving Provo the business and they took it out on Donut
Whomp says:
Rob.....if we gifted you techs so we're both in the MA would you be interested?

Rob says:
i'm sure it must have been more then that
Eldest of Idiots says:
me too
Whomp says:
they wanted the continent
Eldest of Idiots says:
they mined a hill
Whomp says:
and felt they could take it with immortals
Rob says:
We did have an idea about the tech situation, hold on brb
Rob says:
sorry about that
Whomp says:
no probs
Rob says:
we might be able to get MIA's MA tech off them because whatever you guys said or did to them has got them runnig scared
Whomp says:
did they offer to gift you into the MA?

Rob says:
also all doughnutians are interested in coordinating our research in the future
Whomp says:
I agree with that wholeheartedly
Whomp says:
it's what we've wanted since the beginning
Rob says:
well they are very interested in monarchy and have offered to give us their MA tech in exchange
Whomp says:
how about we gift you all of our known techs
Rob says:
if we can get it then we can give it to you guys for your techs then we can work our way through the MA together so we can't get jumped by the other 2
Whomp says:
I like that
Rob says:
plus TNT has also been trying to be cooperative
Rob says:
might have something to do with all those MW's on the horizon
Whomp says:
Well we can help you with Luxs
Whomp says:
once you get a harbor
Rob says:
sure, we are heading towards some silks if you need them
Whomp says:
I think we're missing ivory
Rob says:
we will have a harbour in 8 turns
Rob says:
7 once this turn is finished
Rob says:
i just had a thought, could the hold up be due to the mia newspaper
Whomp says:
I don't know about that?
Rob says:
well it did carry info about your relations with them, otherwise i can't think of a reason for the hold up
Eldest of Idiots says:
what did it say?
Rob says:
before i forget we had another team discussion, if you go to war with MIA and TNT joins them we are prepared to respond in kind
Whomp says:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=154455
Whomp says:
here's the paper
Rob says:
just that your peace agreement has been cancelled
Eldest of Idiots says:
wait a few, dialup
Whomp says:
interesting
Rob says:
oh by respond in kind i mean we would join on your side if it wasn't clear
Eldest of Idiots says:
still reading, but its very amusing
Whomp says:
Well let me tell you this....they have personally, and i mean me, put me in a very bad spot.
Eldest of Idiots says:
rotfl
Rob says:
you mean with the article
Whomp says:
no with some ways these twisted my words
Whomp says:
they've
Whomp says:
so I'm not so happy with them on top of this deal with TNT
Eldest of Idiots says:
u've been an idiot
Whomp says:
nothing new there
Whomp says:
brb guys
Rob says:
ok no prob
Eldest of Idiots says:
wait for the next article. something about whomp and the harem
Rob says:
hehe, maybe you could put out a newspaper of your own
Eldest of Idiots says:
the team wouldn't let me. it would be too silly
Rob says:
hehe, maybe all the teams should have one, that would be good for a laugh
Eldest of Idiots says:
that sounds like a plan.
Rob says:
the game needs some sillyiness to fill in the time between turns
Eldest of Idiots says:
rob, have u ever met B?
Rob says:
i don't think so
Whomp says:
i think we could easily do it with Booti's and Beorn's wackiness
Eldest of Idiots says:
may i invite him?
Whomp says:
sure
Rob says:
sure

http://www.ouverture-facile.com/ has been added to the conversation.

Eldest of Idiots says:
hi b
Eldest of Idiots says:
b good
Whomp says:
he's probably studying polynomials
Eldest of Idiots says:
prolly
Eldest of Idiots says:
or his parents are in the room
Whomp says:
he likes this avatar of mine
Eldest of Idiots says:
old, need to sleep
Whomp says:
night AK
Whomp says:
Beorn will handle it from here
Eldest of Idiots says:
we're doomed
Whomp says:
polynomials and chuck norris...how could we lose with that combo?

Rob says:
sorry guys, somethings come up at work i'm gonna have to leave you, but i talk to you soon about all the deals
Whomp says:
OK see ya Rob
Eldest of Idiots says:
bye

Eldest of Idiots has left the conversation.

Whomp says:
Let's get this done. I think our people would really like to extend our interest in helping each othere
Rob says:
sure thing, we would too. We will keep you updated with any developments

Rob has left the conversation.

Daghdha

Feb 03, 2006, 12:48 AM

Very nice chat indeed. Let's get something in writing, like:

Doughnuts will fight on KISS' side if TNT fights on MIA's in a conflict KISS vs MIA. KISS will fight on Doughnuts side if MIA joins TNT in the conflict Nuts vs. TNT.

This is the mil alliance we've been hoping for :band:

EDIT:
I've sent this pm to Robi
Hi Rob
I just saw your chat with Whomp and AK and thought we might have another go at writing something up. In your earlier response you said that Also we have not ruled out military cooperation in the future if and when it is needed.
which might be a lil to vague for an agreement;) .
I took your stance in the chat as Nuts will aid KISS in possible conflict with MIA if TNT joins on MIA's side. We could agree on doing the same, i.e. aid you if MIA joins TNT. I also saw some interesting thoughts on research. 2 agri civs vs 2 sci would be fun to watch :D .
Whenever you feel like it, make a draft on possible co-op and we'll be delighted to work something out.

Drum Boy Dagh
K.I.S.S.

Daghdha

Feb 04, 2006, 01:04 PM

Seems like diplo dpt. has some work to do anyway :D. This is Nutters respons:
Re: alliance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Daghdha,

Sorry it's taken so long, i had promised a draft to be ready a couple of turns ago, but other matters have seemed to come up. It is a draft so none of the proposed conditions should be seen as concrete, all can be negotiated, however i hope this can be a good base to start from, so without further delay here it is

Robi D

Quote:
DRAFT PROPOSAL FOR COOPERATION TREATY
between Doughnutia and KISS

-A Guarantee of peaceful relations between our nations for the duration of this agreement.

-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence

-Both parties must seek permission to enter the other parties land borders.

-If one party is at war a third nation than the second party is not required to enter the war

-If a second nation enters the war on the side of the opposing nation against a party (thus making it 2 against 1) then the second party must enter the war within a 5 turn period.

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-Neither party may enter an agreement with a third party that would adversely effect any of the conditions of this agreement.

-This agreement will be in effect until the end of the Middle Ages. If both parties agree this can be extended further

-If any party wishes to cancel this agreement early, they must give 10 turns notice. Also any current technological research must be completed and traded (even if its after the 10 turn period)

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

--(This is a draft proposal. Both parties have the right to request any additional conditions, removal of conditions or amendment of conditions. Once both parties have agreed to all the condition, a formal agreement will be signed)--

Initial reaction, this looks fair. Let's discuss so we don't get stuck in another one hard to get out of. I bolded the point that I really didn't understand that good, but then again...:crazyeye:

Whomp

Feb 04, 2006, 01:41 PM

One thing I would add immediately is that we will give them all techs to get to parity however they can not trade monarchy to MIA (or 5 turns after they trade it to us. I don't think we care that MIA gets it if we are at war since they can't afford the anarchy). This will help us enormously in any battle against a republic like MIA.

Kickbooti

Feb 04, 2006, 02:01 PM

[spoiler]Re: alliance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Daghdha,

Quote:
DRAFT PROPOSAL FOR COOPERATION TREATY
between Doughnutia and KISS

-A Guarantee of peaceful relations between our nations for the duration of this agreement.

-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence

-Both parties must seek permission to enter the other parties land borders. Sea borders can be entered without permission, however naval units must continue their movement with each turn unless permission is requested and received.

-If one party is at war a third nation than the second party is not required to enter the war

-If a second nation enters the war on the side of the opposing nation against a party (thus making it 2 against 1) then the second party must enter the war within a 5 turn period.

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. Any movement through each other's territory will be anounced, including force composition, proposed path and ultimate destination. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-Neither party may enter an agreement with a third party that would adversely effect any of the conditions of this agreement.

-This agreement will be in effect until the end of the Middle Ages. If both parties agree this can be extended further

-If any party wishes to cancel this agreement early, they must give 10 turns notice. Also any current technological research must be completed and traded (even if its after the 10 turn period)

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

--(This is a draft proposal. Both parties have the right to request any additional conditions, removal of conditions or amendment of conditions. Once both parties have agreed to all the condition, a formal agreement will be signed)--

I added a couple of ideas. Don't have the time to put in diplomatese, and I will keep reading it to see what burns through my idiodic fog...

PS My suggestions are underlined and in italics.

Whomp

Feb 04, 2006, 02:09 PM

I like Booti's add ons and on 2nd thought I suppose we wouldn't care if MIA gets Monarchy as long as it's not within the next ten turns.

Daghdha

Feb 04, 2006, 03:33 PM

-If one party is at war a third nation than the second party is not required to enter the war I'm still not 100% on this but my interpretation is that no party is forced to join in on an attack. I suppose that is in regard to Nuts anticipating we will hit MIA and they don't want to hop in at the moment.
Otherwise, good points. Let's keep this open for a while so more idiots can have their say. Personally I'm very satisfied with the Nut response. Let's think about how this agreement would affect the situation long term if it becomes a final showdown between us and Nuts.

Kickbooti

Feb 04, 2006, 03:41 PM

I think your understanding is correct Dag.

Just as our agreeemnt with MIA was dubbed the "Green Alliance," for clarity sake I suggest a similar title for our proposed cooperation with the Nuts.

In reference to the speed of our UUs, I propose referring to KISS and The Donughts as "The Quick." And since Provo is an enduring jerk and MIA has wronged us, I propose we refer to both of them collectively as "The Dead."

If this is acceptable, I would re-write the Nut proposal in question to something like,

"If either member of The Quick Alliance engages in a war of offense agaisnt either or both of The Dead, the second Quick Country is not compelled to attack.

If, however, the Dead combine to fight against either member of The Quick, the second member will come to their aid by declaring war against both of The Dead."

Something like that. Of course, in the formal treaty we would have to define our terms, 'Quick,' and 'Dead' and the like, but if those labels are acceptable, I think that the above would be clear.

Whomp

Feb 04, 2006, 03:57 PM

First the further we get from MW's the better. The MW is likely the least beneficial UU moving forward since it's an expensive upgrade to knights.
Second, they are the furthest from us so they are a difficult foe even if we wanted to fight them. This makes them an easy ally IMO.

We can rewrite the war part. IE If one of the alliance members is in a war it is not required that the other alliance member join in. However, if a 2nd team joins the enemy of an alliance member (2 on 1) then we shall join forces (within 5 turns) together to fight both teams.

I don't know the best way to word it but this is my attempt.

Admiral Kutzov

Feb 04, 2006, 04:16 PM

Just as our agreeemnt with MIA was dubbed the "Green Alliance," for clarity sake I suggest a similar title for our proposed cooperation with the Nuts.

may I suggest the Simpsons' Protocols?

Pentium

Feb 04, 2006, 05:17 PM

Wouldn't "The Farmers Alliance" do? (We're both Agr, IIRC)

Daghdha

Feb 04, 2006, 05:20 PM

Draft proposal for The Simpsons Protocols

Within this treaty teams KISS and Doughnuts will be known as The Quick, while teams MIA and TNT will be known as The Dead

-A Guarantee of peaceful relations between The Quick for the duration of this agreement.

-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence

-The Quick must seek permission to enter eachothers land borders. Sea borders can be entered without permission, however naval units must continue their movement with each turn unless permission is requested and received.

-If one of The Quick is in a war it is not required that the other alliance member join in. However, if a 2nd team joins the enemy of an alliance member (2 on 1) then we shall join forces (within 5 turns) together to fight both teams.

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. Any movement through each other's territory will be anounced, including force composition, proposed path and ultimate destination. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-Neither of The Quick may enter an agreement with any of The Dead that would adversely effect any of the conditions of this agreement.

-This agreement will be in effect until the end of the Middle Ages. If both parties agree this can be extended further

-If any party wishes to cancel this agreement early, they must give 10 turns notice. Also any current technological research must be completed and traded (even if its after the 10 turn period)

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

-If one of The Quick feels wronged by the other in reference to this agreement, and the wrong doing is confirmed by administrators, they are free to declare a one-sided termination of the agreement. This can apply to various parts, or the whole agreement.

--(This is a draft proposal. Both parties have the right to request any additional conditions, removal of conditions or amendment of conditions. Once both parties have agreed to all the condition, a formal agreement will be signed)--
I've added one part, italics, to prevent a situation like the one we've had. Feel free to translate it into proper english :lol: .

Admiral Kutzov

Feb 04, 2006, 05:54 PM

Maybe the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. of course then we would need to decide who is who. Looks good Dag.

proper english? that would be not me :lol:

gmaharriet

Feb 04, 2006, 06:01 PM

It's certainly shaping up. Do we need to define "end of the Middle Ages"? Would that be when each of us has actually reached Industrial or while one of us is still researching a last tech? or does that even need to be spelled out?

Admiral Kutzov

Feb 04, 2006, 06:13 PM

harriert, shouldn't u be out raising H?

Whomp

Feb 04, 2006, 06:21 PM

Hah. She's on her game even on her birthday. I agree with Gram we need to define the end of the Middle Ages. I would say once MT and the required techs are researched.

gmaharriet

Feb 04, 2006, 07:30 PM

At least with Dnuts we won't have to quibble over a free sci-trait tech.

Daghdha

Feb 05, 2006, 02:28 AM

Refining the Simpsons Protocol --> Draft proposal for The Simpsons Protocols

Within this treaty teams KISS and Doughnuts will be known as The Quick, while teams MIA and TNT will be known as The Dead

-A Guarantee of peaceful relations between The Quick for the duration of this agreement.

-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence

-The Quick must seek permission to enter eachothers land borders. Sea borders can be entered without permission, however naval units must continue their movement with each turn unless permission is requested and received.

-If one of The Quick is in a war it is not required that the other alliance member join in. However, if a 2nd team joins the enemy of an alliance member (2 on 1) then we shall join forces (within 5 turns) together to fight both teams. With "join forces" we mean an in-game declaration of war on the enemies of the alliance

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. Any movement through each other's territory will be anounced, including force composition, proposed path and ultimate destination. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-Neither of The Quick may enter an agreement with any of The Dead that would adversely effect any of the conditions of this agreement.

-This agreement will be in effect until both parties have learned Military Tradition plus all of the technologies required to enter the Industrial Ages. If both parties agree this can be extended further.

-If any party wishes to cancel this agreement early, they must give 10 turns notice. Also any current technological research must be completed and traded (even if its after the 10 turn period)

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

-If one of The Quick feels wronged by the other in reference to this agreement, and the wrong doing is confirmed by administrators, they are free to declare a one-sided termination of the agreement. This can apply to various parts, or the whole agreement.

Whomp

Feb 05, 2006, 09:05 AM

That looks marvelous Daghie. I think we should send it after a few others post. One question... is the final termination of the agreement subject to
1. reaching the IA
or
2. Upon the 10 turn notice after the IA is reached.

Tubby Rower

Feb 05, 2006, 03:24 PM

How about both teams reaching the IA. No 10 turn notice. Sned it away. Go Steelers

Bede

Feb 06, 2006, 12:20 AM

Looks good without the 10 turn notice.

Daghdha

Feb 06, 2006, 01:53 AM

I think we should have something, if not a 10 turn notice, to prevent one side from quitting "from out of the blue". That is a security measure for us too. Maybe something about completing current trade deals as it goes "in-game"?

Kickbooti

Feb 06, 2006, 05:50 AM

Is it a goal of our treaty with the nuts to eliminate MIA and TNT? If so, do we want to put a line of demarcation between our continent and the Nuts ala the Treaty of Tordesillas?

We could ban the settling or capturing/retaining of cities (without consent) on each others continent.

This is good if we think that the Nuts will acutally assist us with an expiditionary force in the short term that coudl result in a captured MIA city or two. It is to our disadvantage if we are planning on putting some military or lux outposts on their continent in the mid-range.

Just a point to ponder.

Tubby Rower

Feb 06, 2006, 06:07 AM

I thought that it was supposed to be when both teams reach the IA. No 10 turns. That's already bitten us once.

Daghdha

Feb 06, 2006, 08:44 AM

OK, so we say: This deal will be in effect until both teams have reached the IA and therefore it can not be cancelled early. The only way to get out of it before IA is to agree with the other team that the deal should be cancelled or that one of the teams mess up and the other calls for cancellation.
I think the possible problem with this is that we may want to re-negotiate some part of it if/when we see that it favours Nutters more than us. With skipping the notice that will be hard. Then again, same goes for Nuts so...
What I fear is that we will continue to be ahead of Nuts and will be dragging them through the MA. If that'll be the case, we will be the ones wanting to cancel the deal early. By stating that entering the IA together is the only way it goes we are bound to them in a way I don't feel comfortable with.
As I see it Nutters are not dangerous in themselves, but would certanly be if they teamed up with others. Preventing that is the main reason for signing the deal in the first place. We need them more than they need us at the moment, but I think that will change before the MA is over...
I will of course remove the 10 turn part if that is what most KISSers want, but I would like you to think it over 1 more time.

Whomp

Feb 06, 2006, 09:51 AM

The only problem I see with saying the beginning of the IA is one team could potentially stay in the MA to keep the treaty in force so a 10 turn cancellation should be in place somewhere.

How about if we say the treaty is renegotiated or has a 10 cancellation provision at the learning of metallurgy and either ToG or Magnetism by both teams. That would leave MT and either ToG or Magnetism left on the MA tree.

Tubby Rower

Feb 06, 2006, 12:05 PM

If one team wants to stay in the MA, the other team will be able to get a good bit ahead and get Hoovers and such without a challenge. That IMO would be a silly mistake to make.

grahamiam

Feb 06, 2006, 12:30 PM

If one team wants to stay in the MA, the other team will be able to get a good bit ahead and get Hoovers and such without a challenge. That IMO would be a silly mistake to make.

I agree 100%, any team that would stay back would be sacrificing a short term peace in exchange for a loss in the game.

Whomp

Feb 06, 2006, 12:37 PM

You guys are right. How about once MT, ToG and Magnetism have been exchanged the deal can be renegotiated? I just don't want a delay into the IA.

Daghdha

Feb 06, 2006, 03:34 PM

Another shot :) :
Draft proposal for The Simpsons Protocols

Within this treaty teams KISS and Doughnuts will be known as The Quick, while teams MIA and TNT will be known as The Dead

Military

-Peaceful relations are guaranteed between The Quick for the duration of this agreement.

-If one of The Quick is in a war it is not required that the other alliance member join in. However, if a 2nd team joins the enemy of an alliance member (2 on 1) then we shall join forces (within 5 turns) together to fight both teams. With "join forces" we mean an in-game declaration of war on the enemies of the alliance

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. Any movement through each other's territory will be anounced, including force composition, proposed path and ultimate destination. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-The Quick must seek permission to enter eachothers land borders. Sea borders can be entered without permission, however naval units must continue their movement with each turn unless permission is requested and received.

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence

Technology and Trading

-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Neither of The Quick may enter an agreement with any of The Dead that would adversely effect any of the conditions of this agreement.

Termination of the treaty

-Once Military Tradition, Theory of Gravity and Magnetism have been exchanged the deal can be renegotiated.

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

-If one of The Quick feels wronged by the other in reference to this agreement, and the wrong doing is confirmed by administrators, they are free to declare a one-sided termination of the agreement. This can apply to various parts, or the whole agreement.

grahamiam

Feb 06, 2006, 03:38 PM

MilTradition is not required to enter the MA, only metallurgy.

gmaharriet

Feb 06, 2006, 06:10 PM

MilTradition is not required to enter the MA, only metallurgy.
No, not required, but I think both teams would want to have it. If it should come about that there is only one required tech to be researched plus MT, the shared research could help both teams enter the IA with everything we want/need. OTOH, it could be agreed that one team would research the first IA tech while the other researches MT.

We could try including it in the proposed treaty and see what Dnut's response is.

Daghdha

Feb 07, 2006, 04:00 AM

I think Whomp had a point in saying MT and not Metallurgy, that's why I wrote it that way. Alas, I'm too stupid to get it :D .
Side note: It has not been sent yet so we can elaborate more.

Tubby Rower

Feb 07, 2006, 05:20 AM

In our Gmail box from General Robi To the Governments of MIA and KISS,

You will note that when you take your respective turns, that were once the TNT city of Carpetbomb stood, is now a nice pile of rubble.
Thank you,

General Robi D, Doughnutia

That was where their capital USED to be :lol:

Whomp

Feb 07, 2006, 08:50 AM

Good for Donuts! :thumbsup: TNT should be begging for peace if they want to survive.

As far as the treaty goes MT is the critical tech left in the MA IMO so should be included in the agreement somehow.

Metal, ToG and Magnetism are required so something that says our goal is to finish ToG, Magnetism and MT together the fastest way possible. Once these techs are finished and shared we can either cancel or renegotiate this treaty.

Whomp

Feb 07, 2006, 11:06 AM

Jokingly I asked in the Civ4 team discussion thread why TNT doesn't send us letters in the mail. Here's the response...Well we dont really have anything to talk about with you tbh but if you've got anything to bring up with us our letterboxes are always open.
:lol: Meooowww :p
I'm inclined to say something like...well I suppose we should've rolled out the red carpet for you. ;) :p

Can I? Can I? :bounce:

Tubby Rower

Feb 07, 2006, 11:11 AM

I think that they are coming after us. So what ever you say is fine with me. I just hope that the D'nuts will join us because if they don't I'd say that we have a strong chance of not winning this thing.

Whomp

Feb 07, 2006, 03:25 PM

Just to keep them in the loop I sent this to Robi D.
That is quite a turn of events for TNT. They must be reeling from the news of a core city (the old capital IIRC) Nice going Rob!

Just so you're aware we are almost ready to send back your proposed alliance. We are looking forward to our new alliance.

The only thing we are hung up on is what is the end of the MA? Since military tradition is so important yet not required to finish the MA should we say the terms are renegotiated or cancelled by certain level of research being finished?

I.E. if MT and Theory of Gravity (or ToG and mag) are the last two techs left then we can either renegotiate or cancel the deal after those two techs are exchanged? What do you think?

Whomp

BTW the sign up for Civ4 MTDG is here. Let's get the Donuts out in force!

Civ 4 MTDG sign up (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=158025)

Whomp

Feb 07, 2006, 07:22 PM

This is from Robi. BTW I think they may have razed two cities according to Nobody (the NZ guy) Hi Whomp,

Thanks for the support, we were able to take them by surprise and hence get vital ground on them.

As for the question on the alliance, most of the draft was just off the top of my head from the ideas we had discussed so its by no means perfect. You are correct that military tradition is not required, however when i said to the end of the MA, i had in mind all the tech be finished.

I suppose if there is any techs that both of us feel are not required to be researched they can be excluded, but apart from that the idea was to research all the MA tech first and for the agreement to last that long even if we have completed all the required techs to move to the IA. If you guys feel this is too complicated then we can base the length of the agreement on a turn basis instead.

We too are looking forward to the partnership once we iron out any kinks in the draft proposal.

Robi D

Daghdha

Feb 08, 2006, 05:39 AM

This could be tricky. Nutters wants to research every branch of the MA tree while we want to beeline to MT. Maybe it's not that good being too specific about who is to be researching what, but I think we may need to draw some guidelines up. How about making clear that we want MT asap and that we want to re-negotiate when all the techs minus the X-ed ones are discovered and shared? We could, based on that, have a continuing discussion on who is to do what.
One way to go would be that we are guaranteed the fastest way to MT by researching it ourselves while Nutters go the Edu path and an optional Chiv for upping those MWs. Q marks are to be decided and PP is included for maptrading.

Tubby Rower

Feb 08, 2006, 05:45 AM

I think that that is a great idea Dag. I don't see any spoiler info since that screen is also available to them. I would also edit the Science Advisor's comments to something like "Purple and Green is a good combination". Take out the "?" except on Chivalry.

Then I think that we need to send it ASAP. Turn 104 is coming up quick. While it's looking as though we aren't declaring, MIA might have other thoughts.

Daghdha

Feb 08, 2006, 06:28 AM

OK, so here is a revised version. Beaker cost and nitpicking can be done later :D. I have attached that and sent it with our revised draft on the Simpsons Protocol: Salute!
We have made some adjustments to your draft and attached an image of suggested research.

Draft proposal for The Simpsons Protocols

Within this treaty teams KISS and Doughnuts will be known as The Quick, while teams MIA and TNT will be known as The Dead

Military

-Peaceful relations are guaranteed between The Quick for the duration of this agreement.

-If one of The Quick is in a war it is not required that the other alliance member join in. However, if a 2nd team joins the enemy of an alliance member (2 on 1) then we shall join forces (within 5 turns) together to fight both teams. With "join forces" we mean an in-game declaration of war on the enemies of the alliance

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. Any movement through each other's territory will be anounced, including force composition, proposed path and ultimate destination. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-The Quick must seek permission to enter eachothers land borders. Sea borders can be entered without permission, however naval units must continue their movement with each turn unless permission is requested and received.

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence

Technology and Trading

-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Neither of The Quick may enter an agreement with any of The Dead that would adversely effect any of the conditions of this agreement.

Termination of the treaty

-Once the technologies outlined in the Nut and Bolt tech tree attached in this mail have been discovered and exchanged, the deal can be renegotiated. That means all techs except the ones crossed over while Chivalry is optional.

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

-If one of The Quick feels wronged by the other in reference to this agreement, and the wrong doing is confirmed by administrators, they are free to declare a one-sided termination of the agreement. This can apply to various parts, or the whole agreement.

Kickbooti

Feb 08, 2006, 07:35 AM

That look great Dag.

I think in our communication I would make a statement that encourages them to research chivalry.

Something like...

"While Chivalary is technically a 'dead end' tech, it makes good sense for the Donughts to acquire this as soon as possible. We would wouldn't be upeset by our allies ensuring their own security.

This kind of flexibility is essential for strong gameplay."

Let them know that we don't mind some deviation. 'Spirit of the agreement' and all.

Daghdha

Feb 08, 2006, 07:49 AM

Good point Booty, but too late, hehe. I think us saying Chiv is optional opens up for them to do it without us being grumpy about it.

Whomp

Feb 08, 2006, 07:52 AM

Nice work Daghie. Did you send this off? I would if not.

Daghdha

Feb 08, 2006, 08:01 AM

It's sent to Homer :D

barbu1977

Feb 08, 2006, 10:14 AM

Daghdha

Feb 08, 2006, 10:33 AM

2 things:

1- If our goal is to get to MT rapidly, I would suggest we do Eng and they do Feud.

2- We should wait as long as possible before geting Feud. Our GS is far better than a MDI. that said, it's probably better for us to do the top part of the Tech tree, and them to do the bottom part. I'm sure these are good points. On 1 we can say we've had 2d thoughts and just ask if we can do it the Barbu way. On 2 I would need an explanation why we wouldn't want to ctrl the lower path.
Too bad these comments come after the mail is sent, but I guess that's the way it goes. As Tubby said, we're in something of a hurry to get it together and there has been lots of time for everyone to come up with a plan better than this. I'm a tiny bit disappointed that there have been so little suggestions from our research dpt on this matter, cause I'm in no way the tech wiz in here. Just the Idiot putting something together :crazyeye: .

barbu1977

Feb 08, 2006, 12:37 PM

Well this is linked to the other tread. If we attack now, we are better of with the top side and keeping our GS. If we attack latter, we will be better of with the bottom side and beline MT.

Admiral Kutzov

Feb 08, 2006, 04:09 PM

I haven't read that carefully, but I find it amusing that nuts need a picture of the tech tree to negotiate. :rotfl:

Whomp

Feb 08, 2006, 07:19 PM

There can be add ons Barbu. Nothing is set in stone.

Tubby Rower

Feb 09, 2006, 07:14 AM

FWIW, D'nut doesn't have Currency yet. I propose that if they are questioning if they want to join us or not that we offer a good will gift of Currency.

By them getting it for apparently nothing, MIA might assume that they will attack them too. So it could split the MIA forces.

Whomp

Feb 10, 2006, 12:25 AM

Some good stuff from Rob regarding MIA's undefended cities. Things look good on the partnership front.
Rob says:
hi whomp
Whomp says:
hi rob. i'm looking at carpet...i mean gold...rubble
Whomp says:
what research should i start?
Rob says:
hehe, well it is a beuatiful sight, i didn't want you guys to not see it
Whomp says:
we finished construction
Whomp says:
feud is cheap
Rob says:
excellent, we got the draft you sent us with the tech tree
Whomp says:
what do you think?
Rob says:
it all looks pretty good
Whomp says:
any issues?
Rob says:
i just posted it last night so theres only been a couple of responses so far but there no major issues with it
Whomp says:
cool
Whomp says:
we can send you techs when you're ready
Rob says:
the only thing thats come up so far is the chiv should be included in the plan, since knights are pretty powerful
Whomp says:
yes that and MT are critical
Rob says:
sure thing, monarchy is only 8 turns away
Whomp says:
ok i can get feud in 9
Rob says:
but like i said thers been no major issues, nor do i expect any, so we should have this agreement up and running pretty soon
Whomp says:
cool
Rob says:
well i think we can shave a few turns off monarchy as we have pop increases and new cities being put down over the next 2 turs
Whomp says:
just in time for us to start on two techs
Whomp says:
you must've crushed TNT's beaker rate
Rob says:
also although i didn't say in the email, we did take a second tnt city that was just in the jungle
Whomp says:

Rob says:
hehe, hope so
Whomp says:
have they busted out MI yet?
Rob says:
no, and we saw very few immos, but lots of pikes
Rob says:
i think they changed their priorites
Whomp says:
they're on their heels
Rob says:
i haven't recieved anything yet so i am wondering if they are more excepting to peace now
Whomp says:
do you know the city east of Carpetbomb?
Rob says:
yes granada something
Whomp says:
yep
Whomp says:
iron
Rob says:
yep we see it, hehe, we have already cut some roads
Rob says:
but i think they still have a connection to it
Whomp says:
probably from the capital
Rob says:
but i'm sure we took out the ivory
Whomp says:
there
Whomp says:
is one next to furbomb but it's not hooked up
Whomp says:
the worker is on the furs
Rob says:
they only have three coastal cities
Rob says:
well two now
Whomp says:

Whomp says:
and furbomb is size 1
Rob says:
i guess only mia can confirm that for sure but i'm pretty confident we cut that connection
Whomp says:
I wonder if they'll make a colony on the furs
Rob says:
yes furbomb is fairly new
Whomp says:
MIA is expanding very rapidly
Rob says:
possibly, since there settlers would be focused on repairing the damage we did
Rob says:
yes, they made quite a move.
Rob says:
do you have any boats?
Whomp says:
chamnix is a very good player
Whomp says:
no galleys
Rob says:
he is, he has done a good job with them
Whomp says:
i was just going to move my curragh through their lands but things seem a little tense...i don't want to raise their temperature too much
Rob says:
well in the spirit of cooperation i will tell you this
Rob says:
we had a currargh pass through recently and their coastal cities near us are very very light on defence, most had none
Whomp says:
they are bringing hops to their jungle cities
Rob says:
6 to 8 gallics in a surprise raid could do a lot of damage
Whomp says:
we are moving down the coast too
Whomp says:
i'm not sure I want to meet MI so we'll see how things develop
Rob says:
if you went the long way passed us, they would not see you coming
Rob says:
well they haven't connected any iron so far
Rob says:
unless they did this turn
Whomp says:
tell you in a sec
Rob says:
and im sure you can take care of the MI's, it no different to our MW's taking on the immos
Whomp says:
skirmish
Rob says:
just use the MP advantage to your benifit
Whomp says:
i love speed!
Whomp says:
i think they hooked it up because it doesn't show on my side of the diplo screen
Whomp says:
thing is their cities are small
Rob says:
we frustrated TNT so much they started building horses to try to match us
Rob says:
hmm, must have been this turn because is wasn't previously
Whomp says:
when i pull up the diplo screen everyone has iron hooked or else it would show on my side.
Rob says:
true but if you can do what we did it will set them back quite a bit
Whomp says:
tnt is missing 4 luxs that we have
Rob says:
and i would be willing to bet Athens and Heron wouldn't be defended too heavily either
Rob says:
hehe, poor TNT hehe
Whomp says:
i see you need dyes and spices so let me know when you get the harbor in
Rob says:
we have 2 luxs atm and are heading off to hook up a 3rd
Rob says:
sure thing, we should have silks in the not to distant future if all goes to plan
Whomp says:
well i'll finish this and send it to you in 15-20. will you be around?
Rob says:
yes i will, but i wont have the time to play it until late tonight or sat morning
Whomp says:
ok well i'll put you in the background for a few minutes
Rob says:
but thanks, it will help me do some forward palnning
Rob says:
no probs

Crakie

Feb 10, 2006, 04:50 AM

This confirms my conjecture that MIA would be stacking up military in their lux cities, posted elsewhere. If possible at all, we should make good use of our GS and raze a couple of cities.

Tubby Rower

Feb 10, 2006, 09:42 AM

Daghdha

Feb 10, 2006, 10:22 AM

If they are for having a cooperative effort against MIA & TNT then I propose that we gift them Currency and Construction so that they can start building markets and be ready to start Mono or Feud once they finish Monarchy.
I don't think we should gift them, but we could offer a very friendly prize to be payed now or later.

Whomp

Feb 10, 2006, 10:28 AM

A little MIA harrassment would be very helpful, free luxs, a more expensive tech in the MA, monarchy....all of this should bring it to equilibrium but let's not be shortsighted. TNT's research rate has been crushed by losing a core city (on top of a gold field to boot) so MIA may have benefited in the short run but chose the wrong partner for the long run.

Tubby Rower

Feb 10, 2006, 10:36 AM

I didn't mean gift with no return ever. I meant give it to them now with the understanding IN WRITING that we would be getting something later.

Daghdha

Feb 12, 2006, 12:36 AM

According to save for T97 Nuts and TNT are now at peace. Our new friends are making big decisions, but seemingly uninterested in discussing them with us...?

Crakie

Feb 12, 2006, 06:30 AM

They should have told us, yes... but discussing it with us, as if we had a say in it, is not necessary I feel.

Daghdha

Feb 13, 2006, 01:38 AM

This in the mailbox:
Yes have have come to a peace agreement with TNT. They have returned our workers and given us Currency.
This does not effect our current alliance proposals in any way. Currently we are making an admendment to include
Chivalry as part of the deal instead of it being optional. You will be receiving our 2nd draft shortly.

Robi D

Daghdha

Feb 16, 2006, 02:41 AM

Here is their 2d draft. I think that we should put our cow-seal on it and ship it back asap.
2nd Draft proposal for The Simpsons Protocols

Within this treaty teams KISS and Doughnuts will be known as The Quick, while teams MIA and TNT will be known as The Dead

Military

-Peaceful relations are guaranteed between The Quick for the duration of this agreement.

-If one of The Quick is in a war it is not required that the other alliance member join in. However, if a 2nd team joins the enemy of an alliance member (2 on 1) then we shall join forces (within 5 turns) together to fight both teams. With "join forces" we mean an in-game declaration of war on the enemies of the alliance

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. Any movement through each other's territory will be announced, including force composition, proposed path and ultimate destination. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-The Quick must seek permission to enter each others land borders. Sea borders can be entered without permission, however naval units must continue their movement with each turn unless permission is requested and received.

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence

Technology and Trading
-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Neither of The Quick may enter an agreement with any of The Dead that would adversely affect any of the conditions of this agreement.

-Technologies will be traded as each one is researched

Termination of the treaty

-Once the technologies outlined in the Nut and Bolt tech tree attached in this mail have been discovered and exchanged, the deal can be renegotiated.

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

-If one of The Quick feels wronged by the other in reference to this agreement, and the wrong doing is confirmed by administrators, they are free to declare a one-sided termination of the agreement. This can apply to various parts, or the whole agreement.

-If the agreement is cancelled before the agreed time, any technologies currently being researched must be completed and traded

Tubby Rower

Feb 16, 2006, 05:25 AM

I was looking at their proposed techs and they are getting ~ 720 more beakers than we are getting from them. This is on top of the construction-rebpublic for monarchy that we'll basically be trading them.

I realize that we need a trading partner, but we don't want to get hosed do we?

Crakie

Feb 16, 2006, 05:34 AM

Ask for some MIA harrassment... nothing fancy, just a MW or 4 ;)

I saw it in Whomper's draft in the turnplay thread.

Tubby Rower

Feb 16, 2006, 06:00 AM

Here is the banter over gmail about the Republic bit
Hi.
We have pretty much agreed to the agreement. I have to send this message asap as our people demand new government as it is now it seems to be The Republic. Can you send as a token of goodwill tech "The Republic" on the following turn?

Dear Nuts,

While we are encouraged by our recent alliance chats, we are hesitant
to send tokens since MIA has backstabbed us so bad. Can we at least
get something in writing that says you will give us monarchy upon
completion?

I'm sure you realize D'nuts will be getting a great advantage out of
this treaty since KISS will be giving construction and our current
research in the MA so that you can start co-researching in the MA.

Is there anything you can do for us out of goodwill? A few purple
troops annoying MIA would be helpful.

Thanks,
Tubby of Kiss

I promise to give Monarchy upon completion in three turns. I thought this was already agreed.

I forgot to introduce myself. I'm new general of D'nuts Kuningas is my name.

Now that the [civ4] MTDG is getting ready to start, I'm thinking that people are going to be more likely to stand behind their word. Otherwise I will personally herald their misgivings in the other game.

Daghdha

Feb 16, 2006, 07:23 AM

You're the king of beakers Tubs :king:. We will have to even that out somehow....maybe do some slacker research at some point piling cash? Or just ask for gold to equal the diff in beakers?

Whomp

Feb 22, 2006, 08:03 PM

Can someone fancy this up? This is from Nobody at Donut. :dance:
The Simpson’s Protocols

Within this treaty teams KISS and Doughnuts will be known as The Quick, while teams MIA and TNT will be known as The Dead.

Article 1 Military

1.1 Peaceful relations are guaranteed between The Quick for the duration of this agreement.

1.2 If one of The Quick is in a war it is not required that the other alliance member join in. However, if a 2nd team joins the enemy of an alliance member (2 on 1) then we shall join forces (within 5 turns) together to fight both teams. With "join forces" we mean an in-game declaration of war on the enemies of the alliance

1.3 During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. Any movement through each other's territory will be announced, including force composition, proposed path and ultimate destination. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

1.4 The Quick must seek permission to enter each others land borders. Sea borders can be entered without permission, however naval units must continue their movement with each turn unless permission is requested and received.

1.5 Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence

Article 2 Technology and trading

2.1 Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

2.2 Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

2.3 Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

2.4 Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

2.5 Neither of The Quick may enter an agreement with any of The Dead that would adversely affect any of the conditions of this agreement.

2.6 Technologies will be traded as each one is researched

Article 3 Termination of the treaty

3.1 Once the technologies outlined in the Nut and Bolt tech tree attached in this mail have been discovered and exchanged, the deal can be renegotiated. That means all techs except the ones crossed over while Chivalry is optional.

3.2 Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

3.3 If one of The Quick feels wronged by the other in reference to this agreement, and the wrong doing is confirmed by administrators, they are free to declare a one-sided termination of the agreement. This can apply to various parts, or the whole agreement.

3.4 If the agreement is cancelled before the agreed time, any technologies currently being researched must be completed and traded.

………………………………………………………………………………………………

We the undersigned understand and Agree to the 3 Articles of these Simpson’s Protocols

Team Doughnut

Team Kiss

Tubby Rower

Feb 22, 2006, 09:59 PM

I'll read tomorrow over a cup of Joe

Whomp

Feb 23, 2006, 11:00 AM

I am ok with this other than 3.1. Why would chivalry be optional? This part needs to be changed. We need it but they may not see the need for horse upgrades, with MW's, until cavs.
3.1 Once the technologies outlined in the Nut and Bolt tech tree attached in this mail have been discovered and exchanged, the deal can be renegotiated. That means all techs except the ones crossed over while Chivalry is optional.

Tubby Rower

Feb 23, 2006, 11:37 AM

agreed. Chivalry should either be in there or not. I'd prefer it to be in there. I think originally we were the ones wanting to skip it for cavs, but It would be nice to have a better horse.

Daghdha

Feb 23, 2006, 11:42 AM

The draft is suffering the ol' cut and paste disorder. Nuts doesn't want it as optional, but we did, and I think we can agree it should be researched. They didn't change that in their reply.
I also note they have removed my addition concerning the beaker cost...

Tubby Rower

Feb 25, 2006, 07:43 AM

In our Gmail box. Where is this aggreement so that we can sign it? I think that we need to get this to the admins as soon as we can.

Dear Idiots,

Over the last 48 hours the Doughnutian National Congress unianmosly voted to sign the Simpson Protocol.
It is my envious duty to sign the said agreement and as soon as your people are ready we will become allies. Please send the signed treaty as soon as posible.
Never again will the idiots from the west fear foreign agression because any nation that choose you as a enemy also chooses us.

Yours faithfully

Nobody Nobadazine
Foreign Console of Doughnutia

p.s.

I think the last treaty i sent you was wrong it didnt included the part about the if one party gets more science beakers than the other. This was a typo and we fully agree to your terms.

Tubby Rower

Feb 25, 2006, 07:35 PM

This is being sent via Gmail to the D'nuts . Nobody of the D'nuts said that D'nut would have no problem with researching Chivalry if we sent Construction as soon as this is signed. Big pictures... so Don't open the spoiler if you have dial up
Cover Page
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/4428/coverpage7ok.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Article 1
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/6901/article10he.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Article 2
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9255/article2a5dd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6474/article2b5zb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Article 3
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6065/article30km.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

signature page
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5056/signatures0qv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

gmaharriet

Feb 25, 2006, 08:06 PM

It look great to me, Tubs! :goodjob:

Whomp

Feb 26, 2006, 10:52 AM

That's fantastic Tubs. Love the stamp. Too bad that pirate flag can't be in motion. :mischief: (tm Mistfit)

Tubby Rower

Feb 26, 2006, 07:49 PM

in our gmail box
Hey the treaty is signed and now enforcedable. Just post all the text below in what ever thread you want to keep it. the only difference is the last bit the signiture page, it now has our signed copy.

Cheers

Nobody

Cover Page
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/4428/coverpage7ok.jpg ( http://imageshack.us)

Article 1
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/6901/article10he.jpg ( http://imageshack.us)

Article 2
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9255/article2a5dd.jpg ( http://imageshack.us)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6474/article2b5zb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Article 3
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6065/article30km.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

signature page
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/signatures0qv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

scoutsout

Mar 01, 2006, 09:40 PM

I just went to download the save and there was a note from 'nuts in the inbox. Apparently I forgot to hit "accept" after I "sent" construction...

I sent a note of PERSONAL apology to their turnplayer... but whoever is handling the diplo stuff with 'nuts... it might not be a bad idea to check with their emissary.

My apologies to the team. :blush:

Whomp

Mar 01, 2006, 09:55 PM

Scout when you send construction say "accept" then send and exit.

scoutsout

Mar 01, 2006, 10:52 PM

Scout when you send construction say "accept" then send and exit.I got that figured out. :blush:

On a related note... we're 2 turns from Engineering... a little MM magic and the FP build sped it up. Do the terms of our treaty obligate us to send it to them immediately on completion?

Daghdha

Mar 02, 2006, 12:17 AM

2.6
Technology will be traded as each one is researched
To me that means Yes, or rather Turn it off and pile some cash while waiting on Nuts to catch up :D .

Whomp

Mar 02, 2006, 08:54 AM

I think we should start in on the cheaper of the two researched techs by TNT and MIA. Mono and feud. My preference would be feud so we can research invention (towards a MT beeline) and they can hit chivalry afterwards.

Tubby Rower

Mar 02, 2006, 10:01 AM

Yeah, and if we are researching Fued while they research Mono, we could look at maybe getting them to start in on Chilvary for a little better unit to stomp on MIA's toes.

Cash would be nice for rushing, but since peace is going to be the word of the day for 40 or so turns with MIA, I think that normal production could handle a little skirmishing over against TNT. Also I'd rather be rushing knights than GS.

scoutsout

Mar 02, 2006, 05:55 PM

I like Feudalism over Monotheism... mainly because we some Pikes, and we need it to move towards Invention.

I'm not so fond of Knights in this one. They will be tough to root out of their citites with all those cheap hoplites. For the cost of 2 Knights I can have 2 MDI, a Trebuchet, and a Pikeman.

Couple a traditional Middle Ages combined arms stack with the speed of our Gallic Swords... and we could fight an absolutely lethal combined arms campaign. The siege would go something like this: Bombard with Trebuchets. Attack the healthier defensive units with the Gallic Swords. All I want to do is knock a few hit points off... use them like lethal trebuchets. Finish the enemy garrison with MDI.

In the defense I would probably do the opposite; lead with the MDI and finish with the fast units.

grahamiam

Mar 02, 2006, 09:59 PM

well, if we're gonna drag along pikes, we might as well take LB's instead of MDI's. We get the same attack power plus we get additional defensive bombards, making the stack practically untouchable, unless you're thinking that we'll use MDI's in defensive positions. Could use GS's to pillage the path as the stack moves (or as the def. 2 unit in the stack), and pop redlined pike's and MDI's that may be running around.

scoutsout

Mar 03, 2006, 12:57 AM

@Grahamiam: Good point on the longbows... My thinking is that I'd keep queueing up Gallics until I can't anymore, since the GS->MDI is a freebie upgrade. Assuming we have a golden age before Invention, the only MDI I'll queue up will be post GA/Feudalism and pre-Invention.

What do you think about this whole TNT expedition? Though I see the logic... I don't want to become so distracted by it that we fail to take care of business against MIA...

Crakie

Mar 03, 2006, 05:17 AM

What do you think about this whole TNT expedition? Though I see the logic... I don't want to become so distracted by it that we fail to take care of business against MIA...

Excellent point! I see two main reasons for taking on TNT:
1) Keeping us entertained :D
2) Triggering the GA

This being said, we ARE hurting MIA's research partner and in so doing, increase our chances of a succesful cavalry campaign.

All in all there's a delicate balance to strike. Let's not go all out, and keep building the infrastructure.

Daghdha

Mar 03, 2006, 08:35 AM

Excellent point! I see two main reasons for taking on TNT:
1) Keeping us entertained :D
2) Triggering the GA

This being said, we ARE hurting MIA's research partner and in so doing, increase our chances of a succesful cavalry campaign.

All in all there's a delicate balance to strike. Let's not go all out, and keep building the infrastructure.
If that be the case, and I garee, we should
a) send a stack big enough to raze one TNT core city immediately
b) "Give us what we want or be erased"
c) :lol:
d) go back home with a sack full of goodies and start building for the
MIA showdown

Crakie

Mar 04, 2006, 06:08 AM

Sounds like a plan to me, Daghie! But let's see how many cities we can take with the stack.

Daghdha

Mar 04, 2006, 06:51 AM

Yessir, my point is we should not stay stuck in a position where we have to ship reinforcements multiple times but go for a really quick and heavy first strike and, as you pointed out, take as much as we can in a few rounds. The optimal size of SoD would be enough to make TNT believe we could cripple them big time, but not neccesarily doing it all the way.The whole mission would be completed in good time before the peace with MIA expires and we would have all our troops back ('cept for possible garrison if we don't raze).

Crakie

Mar 04, 2006, 10:08 AM

I completely agree Dagh. Discussion moved here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=148292).

scoutsout

Mar 06, 2006, 09:45 PM

@Whichever one of us Idiots is serving as emmisary to the Doughnutians:

Please inform the Doughnut leadership that our Turnplayer Idiot (that's me) sent them Engineering with the latest save. We have started on Feudalism. If they would be so kind as to start in on Monotheism, we won't duplicate efforts, yadda yadda...etc.

Daghdha

Mar 07, 2006, 03:44 AM

Tubby Rower

Mar 07, 2006, 05:31 AM

Daggie sent the message and Kunnigas replied that their unit support is killing them. He said that Mono will be their next target, but never specified a start turn on it.

Whomp

Mar 07, 2006, 09:38 AM

This was a turn or two before we finished engineering.
Kuningas, Robi and Nobody,

Welcome to the MA's!
I don't think we discussed which tech you were going to research in the MA. If you already started just let us know since we will finish engineering in either 1 or 2. We'd like to research feud but if you've already started no probs. Also let us know when you get a harbor in so we can start talking about some lux trade.

Whomper

We are researching Monotheism. Can't tell you how long it will take until we establish a govt. which should be this turn

scoutsout

Mar 07, 2006, 09:49 PM

Good deal. Tell 'em not to get in any big hurry. Just wanted to make sure we weren't duplicating effort.

scoutsout

Mar 14, 2006, 03:01 AM

For those not following the logs... 'nuts should have received their first shipment of spices at Crunch. We got our first of twenty 15gpt payments.

@Diplomats: Please inquire as to whether they were able to develop Cinnamon Doughnuts.

And while you're at it... next time they offer something... ask 'em for an out-of-game 'heads up'.

scoutsout

Mar 17, 2006, 09:10 PM

Here's the dispatch sent with the latest save. If one of you diplomat types would open up a dialog with the worker trade thing... it would be good. We're currently paying 60gpt for unit support.

@ Team Doughnut: Has our emissary been in touch with you regarding a worker trade? It might benefit us both if we could trade worker-for-worker... it might help contain those unit costs.

Please advise if you have developed any new doughnut recipies with the spices. We have heard that cinammon is tasty. Unfortunately, our doughbolt factory is still in a shambles, and we have not found Dinsog...

Attached is the save.

Best regards,
-scoutsout

Rik Meleet

Mar 18, 2006, 06:59 AM

You might want to check with Ginger and Regent if worker-trading in this setup is allowed...

Tubby Rower

Mar 23, 2006, 06:56 AM

Sent to Robi D, Nobody and Kunigas

Dear peoples of the Doug H. Nuts,

We as a people of Kiss-o-holics are upon the precipice of discovering a nifty concept Fuedalism. We shall have serfs and they will love working in our fields.

The question has come up as to what the status of your research has been. We shall comply with the Nut and Bolt treaty (The Simpsons' Protocol) and hand over these secrets when we sure that it is the best that we could come up with.

Also, Do you have any further intellegence on MIA or TNT? It appears as though TNT settled near you wines on the eastern coast of your continent.

Tubby of the Kissers

Tubby Rower

Mar 23, 2006, 08:02 AM

Quick reply back from Nobody

Hey Tubbstar

Expect Monothism to be delivered in 8 turns... for everything else ill just see ya on MSN. Its late and im tired.

Seems like TnT might be up to their old tricks.

Regards

Nobotti
Foreign Affairs Consulate
Republic of Doughnutia

scoutsout

Mar 23, 2006, 04:32 PM

@Tubby - find out what they mean by "TNT ...up to their old tricks..." Any intel you can gather on that front would be helpful... as I plan to deploy a small SoD next to Carpetbomb in 2 turns.

Whomp

Mar 23, 2006, 05:26 PM

Scout here's my interpretation of what he said...
1st, Nobody "the CFCer" is not a fan of TNT and didn't want peace with them.

When he said "they're up to their old tricks" those tricks include such things as starting a war out of nowhere, razing a city and capturing a worker, jumping their capital, mining a hill in despotism, building MoM and letting Provo and Dinsog spout garbage.

The new "old trick" is TNT encroaching on Donut territory for a lux they know they won't get from Donut or us (the only two with wines).
I'd guess in the peace treaty they didn't discuss borders and TNT is exploiting the peace terms.

Tubby Rower

Mar 24, 2006, 05:17 AM

That's what I read into it too. I'll check anyway.

Should I send a notice that we will be slapping them around a little? I'll just send it to Nobody and its for his eyes only and I trust him not to share it with the other two teams (or his for that matter) until it has reached the point of no return.

scoutsout

Mar 24, 2006, 05:42 AM

Should I send a notice that we will be slapping them around a little? I'll just send it to Nobody and its for his eyes only and I trust him not to share it with the other two teams (or his for that matter) until it has reached the point of no return.Not just yet. At the end of the next turn we will have reached the point of no return, and we may not have sealed the deal with MIA yet. Since MIA has a settler pair on the way to a site that isn't negotiated...that could get dicey. We may be forced to delay our invasion by a turn or two, and we don't want to tip TNT off.

Sir Bugsy

Mar 24, 2006, 07:55 PM

Benjamin Franklin said something like: "If you want to keep a secret from your enemy, don't tell it to a friend."

Or "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead."

Don't tell the Donuts anything until we launch the attack. Then just enough to keep them on our side.

scoutsout

Apr 02, 2006, 12:50 PM

This is the latest in the turntracker:There is panic in the streets. We need an extension for a couple days.We need to keep our friends close...and our enemies closer. Considering the fact that our 'friends' will eventually be our enemies...

We need to keep 'nuts and MIA on the sidelines. I am sure TNT is pulling out all diplomatic stops to get some help. I say we could offer Dyes to 'nuts to stay out of this war.

"We are your friends, and we will reward you for honoring our treaty. Dyes for neutrality."

...or something like that. It's an option. Similar post in MIA diplo thread in a moment.

Daghdha

Apr 02, 2006, 04:32 PM

Of course we could offer some goodies for neutrality, but in my book our signing of non-aggression means we don't have to. MIA and Nuts have made their choise, and that is to leave us alone for a while. Let's wait and see if they signal any intentions of breaking the agreements before we give away anything.

Tubby Rower

Apr 02, 2006, 06:09 PM

Dyes to the nuts sound fine since they are a friend currently. MIA shouldn't get anything IMO since they stabbed us in the back by trading all techs to TNT without sharing one iota.

Sir Bugsy

Apr 02, 2006, 06:11 PM

We have trade agreements with Donuts. We are helping them with their continent. They don't need anything else.

Tubby Rower

Apr 02, 2006, 06:50 PM

remember that by giving D'nuts dyes you'll help their research (in a round about way) and in turn help us out by allowing them to research faster.

Tubby Rower

Apr 02, 2006, 07:40 PM

I had a brief conversation with Nobody from D'nut

Tubby Rower says:
hey dood
Nobody says:
hi
Tubby Rower says:
have you guys figured out what happened yet?
Nobody says:
What about?
Tubby Rower says:
civ3 MTDG?
Nobody says:
Hang on a sec
Tubby Rower says:
sorry I had a conversation in my head before I started typing... I forgot that you wasn't in on it
Nobody says:
lol
Nobody says:
Fill me in
Nobody says:
Your at war!
Tubby Rower says:
so you guys have no clue as to why TNT wanted a delay?
Nobody says:
How did this happen
Tubby Rower says:

Nobody says:
No explain aaway
Tubby Rower says:
well I can only say officially it is a police action to search out Dinsog for blowing up our doughbolt factory
Tubby Rower says:
needless to say they were caught with their pants down
Nobody says:
Come on we are allies, Can you just explain what has happened.
Nobody says:
Have you invaded them
Tubby Rower says:
correct
Tubby Rower says:
can you guys see their city nearest to us?
Nobody says:
hang on, im looking at stuff right now
Tubby Rower says:
okok let me know when your ready
Nobody says:
We got this message I have tried to stay out of diplomacy in the MTDG, but I suppose I should have asked this earlier. Do you and your teammates object if we want to smack TNT around a bit?

Have a nice day,
scoutsout
Nobody says:
And a screen shot shows us that you are at war with them
Nobody says:
You know a little prewarning of this would be nice. We recently extended our peace treaty with them for 5 more turns. We could have played a large part in your plans.
Tubby Rower says:
We didn't want any of it to be tipped off
Tubby Rower says:
sorry about that
Tubby Rower says:
but I hope you understand
Tubby Rower says:
our declaration notice to them was pretty funny too. Ask Whomp if you can get a copy of it.
Nobody says:
We would not have tipped off TnT, we know how to hate this nation. Although it is offensive you did not trust us enough i am sure we can let it go and move on.
Nobody says:
I will ask Whomp for the Declartion and if possible a explanition of the invasion and war to this date.
Tubby Rower says:
ok. So far we have planted 8 GS next to an undefended city
Nobody says:
Those idiots need to learn to protect their citys lol
Tubby Rower says:
we think that they might abandon it this turn
Tubby Rower says:
we hope that they don't though
Nobody says:
We did in the same situation.
Nobody says:
What are your goals for this war?
Tubby Rower says:
Not completely sure since I'm not a war-monger
Tubby Rower says:
I think that we are for slapping them around a bit and getting some techs from them.
Tubby Rower says:
otherwise near extinction
Nobody says:
We could have been a huge help to you
Tubby Rower says:
how many more turns do you have in peace
Nobody says:
i dont know exactly. We had a 20 turn treaty. Then we extended it 5 turns im not sure of the date exactly.
Nobody says:
Although you must be aware the Simpsons protocols do not cover this type of action. Unless MIA attack you.
Tubby Rower says:
we understand
Tubby Rower says:
we just signed a non-aggression pact with MIA
Nobody says:
Did they know about this war?
Tubby Rower says:
I suspect that they do since they are in bed with the explosive ones
Tubby Rower says:
TNT is prolly trying to buy them in on attacking us
Nobody says:
We were about to sign a similar agreement with TnT, but this might slow it down a little
Tubby Rower says:

Nobody says:
They will be expecting a attack from us.
Nobody says:
I am currently writing Donsig a note
Nobody says:
Can you send me the Declaration of War?
Tubby Rower says:
that could be good... don't break your treaties... we WILL NOT ask you to do that
Tubby Rower says:
I need to confirm that it's ok to send it to you.
Nobody says:
As of right now we are Neutral.
Tubby Rower says:
that's fine.
Nobody says:
What i understand of KISS law, you dont need to confirm your actions before taking them.
Tubby Rower says:
well we have insituted a few loose rules
Tubby Rower says:
one of which is that we need 2 other idiots confirmation before doing anything
Nobody says:
lol
Nobody says:
nice
Nobody says:
We have a constituition
Tubby Rower says:
prevents self-destruction
Nobody says:
Its good to learn the laws of the other nations
Tubby Rower says:
for certain things an idiot or two are given supreme control over a situation. But they have to know what they are doing and be trusted by the others in that department
Nobody says:
Anyway i would like to formally tell you the following things: 1. The Doughnut Republic will remain Neutral throughout this conflict, although our treaty obligations will not be affected. 2. I would like to ask for as much infomation about the war as possible, Including the Declaration, their response and Military infomation.
Tubby Rower says:
I'll copy this conversation in our diplo thread if that's ok with you
Tubby Rower says:
I'll highlight your concerns and someone (maybe me) will get back with you
Nobody says:
ditto
Nobody says:
Whats MIA going to say? lol
Tubby Rower says:
I was just curious what you guys have found out about the war
Tubby Rower says:
dunno but I'd love to see their faces when they read what's going on
Nobody says:
TnT are going to attempt to get us on side by claiming it is a continent war
Tubby Rower says:
well that's just incorrect
Tubby Rower says:
It's a way to get compensation for our dough-bolt factory
Nobody says:
oh dont worry, we wont be sideing with them
Nobody says:
thats for sure
Nobody says:
Infact a weakended TnT presents us with many options
Tubby Rower says:
great
Tubby Rower says:
always looking to give our friends more options
Nobody says:
lol
Nobody says:
I hope you are defended your southern border
Tubby Rower says:
yes we are
Tubby Rower says:
better than I would have done... Scoutsout is an excellent player
Nobody says:
We all had you ped as Idiots, but you were Corleones all along.
Tubby Rower says:
idiots are not stoopid ;)
Tubby Rower says:
most of us are in the Succession Games... a good many of us are considered excellent players... I'm not one of them
Nobody says:
iv never played any multiplayed
Nobody says:
r
Tubby Rower says:
I haven't either before this ... actually we only had 3 with MP experience before this game
Tubby Rower says:
can I add Scoutsout?
Nobody says:
sure

scoutsout has been added to the conversation.

Nobody says:
Greetings Scout
Tubby Rower says:
scout this is Nobody... Nobody, scout
Nobody says:
What have you been up too????? tsk tsk tsk
scoutsout says:
Good evening!
scoutsout says:
What have I been up to? Depends on whether or not you believe what you read. ;)
Nobody says:
lol
scoutsout says:
So did you guys enjoy our April Fools' Day presents?
Nobody says:
is that what it was?
scoutsout says:
Something like that....
Nobody says:
is there really a war?
scoutsout says:
... actually... I believe you had Feudalism coming from our treaty.
Tubby Rower says:
yes that is correct
Nobody says:
we got it
scoutsout says:
Yes, there really is a war. Scout's Honor. (puns intended)
Nobody says:
Did you attack TnT or is this some crazy stunt. because if it is you got me
scoutsout says:
Well... we haven't actually attacked... yet. But we've got a couple of troops in their faces.
scoutsout says:
... Is Kuningas going to be upset with me if I deny him the honor of sacking TNT's current capitol?
Nobody says:
lol
scoutsout says:
I guess you guys are just heartbroken that we're picking on TNT, huh?
Nobody says:
Heartbroken that you couldnt tell your allies
Nobody says:
But TnT? they are nothing do with them as you wish
scoutsout says:
Hehehe... hey - I PM'd Robi D to tell him we've got a tradeable lux...
scoutsout says:
...I know who my friends are.
Tubby Rower says:
plausible deniablilty Nobody, plausible deniablilty
scoutsout says:
Though I must admit... the PM I just got from Robi D makes me feel much better. He doesn't hold anything against me for ripping off his "Doughbolt" theme.
Nobody says:
lol
Nobody says:
its true, in my recent message to Donsig i told him we had no prior knowledge ect. But i did add in the end that we knew what it felt like to be sneak attacked
Nobody says:
They should feel their a hair away from a two front war
Nobody says:
Maybe its a nice time for Doughnutia to ask for tribute
scoutsout says:
Not a bad idea... what sort of tribute do you have in mind?
scoutsout says:
You know... you guys could have a nice client state if I were to torch a few of their northern cities... what's thier disposition like in the south? Small towns in the jungle?
Nobody says:
yes
Nobody says:
surrounded with MW
Nobody says:
but we probably wont get involved in this war
Nobody says:
lol Dave shacks name is David Shackfold
scoutsout says:
No problem with that. We understand that you guys probably had quite the recession when you finally got into Republic.
Nobody says:
yes
scoutsout says:
We had this bright idea for worker trades between the Agri civs... but RegentMan put the ol' kabosh on it. Called it an exploit.
Nobody says:
I dont like violence scoutman, im a bussiness man and bloods a big exspense
scoutsout says:
It does tend to be expensive.
Nobody says:
Thats off the godfather by the way
scoutsout says:
I love the whole series.
Nobody says:
Do you know who said that then?
scoutsout says:
oh - hey - @Nobody: I hope you can forgive me for using your name in the diplo thing...
scoutsout says:
I'll be honest with you - it's been a while since I've seen the Godfather...but that sounds like something Brando's character would've said in the first one.
scoutsout says:
Did Robi D mention anything about Dyes to your team?
Nobody says:
It was the turk when he kidnapped Tom,
Nobody says:
not yet
Nobody says:
not yet
scoutsout says:
I threw that out in a PM to him... @ Tubby, who's our emissary to Team Doughnut?
Tubby Rower says:
me, you,..... anyone
scoutsout says:
Oh - okay...
Nobody says:
i talk to whomp and tubby mostly
Nobody says:
Are you the president scout?
scoutsout says:
Well anyway... we've got this tradeable dye...
Tubby Rower says:
president :lol
scoutsout says:
...no...I'm not the President. We're an anarchy.
Tubby Rower says:
we have no president
Nobody says:
oh
Nobody says:
what are you
scoutsout says:
I would say that "Nobody's in charge..." but that might create problems.
scoutsout says:
I'm just the turnplayer for the moment.
Nobody says:
i will mention the dyes back home, although you have already created enough bussiness for the Team Doughnut Forign office
scoutsout says:
You mean... business other than trade?
Nobody says:
lol
Nobody says:
hang on a sec
scoutsout says:
Okay.
Nobody says:
*opens the Kiss Relations folder*
Nobody says:
(we have threads for each civ FA)
scoutsout says:
ok
scoutsout says:
...and is there a dossier in there that says "Scout is nuts"?
Nobody says:
never mind,
Nobody says:
We have seperate folders for Scout and Scouts Nuts
Tubby Rower says:
:lol:
scoutsout says:
LOL! IIRC, we've got a dozen or so turns on a spices/15gpt deal.
Nobody says:
Thats ok isnt it
Tubby Rower says:
sure
scoutsout says:
It works for me.
scoutsout says:
We don't want to make these lux deals so expensive that it cuts into your research... I mean... your research is half our research and vice-versa....
Nobody says:
i leave that up to robi and the domestic people to work our Trades ect. I just sign them at the end of the month
Nobody says:
Free Lux will decrease our Lux rate and increase our science
Nobody says:
have we sent you any tech yet?
scoutsout says:
Nope.
Nobody says:
bloody people. i have been on their back about it
scoutsout says:
No - to "have we sent you any tech"... as for lux and the sci/lux rates... that's kinda the idea. Have you guys got Monotheism already?
scoutsout says:
... did you just commit a "Foo Pah" Nobody?
Nobody says:
hmmm.... thats a interesting question isnt it
scoutsout says:
depends... how "interesting" is the answer?
Nobody says:
I think the treaty should be you send us everything and we send nothing.
scoutsout says:
Fine by me. But that's not the way the treaty is written.
Nobody says:
lol
Nobody says:
ok im looking for our science stuff to answer your question
Nobody says:
What turn is it?
scoutsout says:
I believe we just finished 117
Nobody says:
i think 5 turns
Nobody says:
at turn 113 we had 9 turns
Nobody says:
but tech rate might have changed and not told me
scoutsout says:
sounds about right... understanding the recession you guys were in when you hit the MA.
Nobody says:
Yeah we are, the war did horrible things to us
Nobody says:
And its all TnTs fault
Nobody says:
you go ahead and kill them twice
Tubby Rower says:
we're here to help you out with that
scoutsout says:
...forced you into a despotic GA... no infrastructure when you hit Republic and the MA at the same time... then you had an overbuilt army for Republic...
scoutsout says:
We may be Idiots... but we're idiots with good imaginations. We understand.
Nobody says:
add on to the end, We have a over bulit army of obselet weapons
Nobody says:
But we Won the War!
scoutsout says:
Yeah you did! Torched 'em good from what I can gather.
Nobody says:
They were so confident
Nobody says:
thats the sweetest victoru
scoutsout says:
TNT?
Nobody says:
yes
Nobody says:
and all you guys had us counted out
scoutsout says:
Hehehe... I have seen Kuningas fight first hand. I would never have counted you out. (I wasn't in the game when that war broke out.)
Nobody says:
Robi won us the war
scoutsout says:
Robi was playing the turns then?
Nobody says:
yeah i think so
Tubby Rower says:
yup Gen Robi of the D
Tubby Rower says:
kicked their collective butt he did
scoutsout says:
Well then... please pass along my compliments!
Nobody says:
i will
Nobody says:
i better get going, i need a shower
Nobody says:
i will post this in my appropriate places ect
Tubby Rower says:
ok c ya later Nobody
Tubby Rower says:
me too
scoutsout says:
Alrighty. Run it by your team's bean counters...
scoutsout says:
We don't want to overcharge for dyes.
Nobody says:
Cya , can you send us that info or think about it
Tubby Rower says:
the 2 ?'s ?
scoutsout says:
Which info do you need sent?
Nobody says:
The declaration of war, and how much forces you got tied up their
Nobody says:
just so i seem like i got lots of Intelligence
scoutsout says:
Please understand.. we're reluctant to tell you the exact disposition of our forces....
Tubby Rower says:
I'll PM the declaration that we sent to them... it is self-explanatory
Nobody says:
fair enough i got to go,
Nobody writes:

scoutsout says:
Nice to have met you, Nobody.

In short they are upset that we couldn't trust them and they had just signed a 5 turn extension on non-aggression. Scout's humor defused the situation and we are all good. It looks like they are planning on remaining neutral at worst in this conflict.

They think that we are newbies that we know nothing and idiots are stoopid

I'll update the conversation as it happens

Done with the Updates....