This thread aims at creating a database for adding the missing civilizations for those who'd like to mod them. I suggest those who are interested in other civilizations should add some information about the nation, name; capital; cities; suggested leaders; UU; great people (scientist, merchant, prophet, engineer, artist).

These are the poll results from this forum about your opinions on which Civs should be added with around 300 Civ fans participating and Babylonians are the most missed civilization with Turks and Vikings sharing a close second, Carthage/Phoenicia; Celts; and Zulu to follow. I will reserve the next six posts for these civilizations and we can all discuss on these as well as new ideas and suggestions.

Assyria 59 20.07%
Babylon 170 57.82%
Celts 104 35.37%
Carthage/Phoenicia 122 41.50%
Dutch 95 32.31%
Iroquois 90 30.61%
Israel ( or ancient tribe ) 77 26.19%
Khmer 41 13.95%
Korea 71 24.15%
Maya 94 31.97%
Poland 41 13.95%
Polynesia 40 13.61%
Portugal 66 22.45%
Siam 31 10.54%
Sioux 55 18.71%
Songhai 20 6.80%
Turks/Ottomans 147 50.00%
Vikings 155 52.72%
Zulus 97 32.99%
Other 49 16.67%
Confederate States
British Empire
Canada
Austria and Hungary
Abyssinia
Australia
Servia
Latvia
Quebec
Philippines
Brazil
Scots
The Northeast
Czechs
Thracians
Byzantium
Swiss
Tartessos
Bosnia
Courdes


Progress going on
Finished product w/o LH
Finished product with initial LH support
Ready to serve with LH & UU

Please note: Leaderheads and Unique Units require additional graphic work that will take more time to complete.

Leader : Hammurabi - Creative and Industrious, favors Organized Religion
Sargon - Aggressive and Spiritual, favors Police State

Capital : Babylon

Flag : Golden lion on dark blue

Starting Techs : The Wheel and Agriculture

Great Scientists : Sennacherib, Nabonidus

Great Merchants : Urumu-ush, Ahikar

Great Prophets : Gilgamesh, Enheduanna, Assur-bani-pal

Great Artists : Sin-liqi-unninni

Great Engineers : Tiglath-pileser III

Unique Unit : War Chariot, Babylonian Bowman

Cities :

Babylon
Ur
Nineveh
Ashur
Ellipi
Akkad
Uruk
Eridu
Samarra
Lagash
Kish
Nippur
Shuruppak
Zariqum
Sippar
Izibia
Larsa
Nimrud
Zamua
Khorsabad
Hindana
Tell Wilaya
Umma
Adab
Telloh
Nina
Ebla
Isim
Elam
Susa
Senkera
Shirgulla
Entemena
Mari
Yarmuti
Ebla
Amanus
Taurus
Kalakh
Arrapkha
Dur Shakkukin
Kalhu
Karkhemish
Harran
Tur Abdin
Khabur
Mari
Khalwan
Terge
Suru
Arbhela
Ecbatanna
Nisibhin
Khabur
Gundeshapur
Qarqar
Rasappa
Hatra
Raqqah
Ruha
Kullimeri
Arpad
Hamath
Gublu
Anduarsalia
Anmurru
Til Garimmu
Itua
Hit
Anah
Kakzu
Gasur
Calah
Barsippa
Nimit Ishtar
Aninua
Shibaniba
Dur Sharrukin
Balata
Tarbisu
Simmurrum
Asari
Imbur-Bel
Tell Rimah
Arballu
Kar-Tukulti
Nimurta
Hatra
Rania
Jerwan
Marad
Kutha
Neribtum
Dur-Kurigalzu
Tadmor
Lachish
Kalhu
Der
Karkheh
Mari
Taima
Riblah
Tushpa
Qarqar
Dan
Hazor

Please suggest leader traits, UU and great leaders. The ones I have listed here are the basic initial suggestions.

Leader : Mehmed II - Creative and Expansive, favors Hereditary Rule
Selim the Grim - Agressive and Expansive, favors Theocracy
Suleyman the Magnificent - Financial and Philosophical, favors Bureaucracy
Mustafa Kemal - Organized and Creative, favors Free Religion

Capital : Istanbul

Flag : White crescent and star on red

Starting Techs : Mining and Hunting

Great Scientists : Molla Fenari, Ali Kuscu, Kadizade Rumi, Ibn-i Sina, Imam Gazali, Mahmud Sipahizade, Molla Lutfi, Mirim Celebi, Nasuh Matraki

Great Merchants : Ali Ekber (first Ottoman merchant to China), Seyfi Celebi, Ibrahim al-Tokadi, Seydi Ali Reis, Lutfi Celebi, Sakip Sabanci, Vehbi Koc, Nejat Eczacibasi

Great Prophets : Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi, Yunus Emre, Haci Bektas Veli, Pir Sultan Abdal, Hoca Ahmet Yesevi, Sheyh Bedreddin, Nasreddin Hoca (folkloric philosopher), Said-i Nursi (controversial spiritual person with significant number of followers), Asik Veysel

Great Artists : Dede Korkut, Omer Khayyam, Fuzuli, Evliya Celebi, Dede Efendi, Sinasi, Namik Kemal, Tevfik Fikret, Osman Hamdi Bey, Halide Edip Adivar, Nazim Hikmet, Orhan Veli Kanik, Yasar Kemal, Munir Nurettin Selcuk

Great Engineers : Mimar Sinan, Hezarfen Celebi, Piri Reis, Ibrahim Muteferrika, Mehmed Said Efendi, Cezayirli Gazi Hasan Pasa, Cezayirli Seyyid Hasan, Yanyali Hoca Ishak, Kirkor Amira Balian

Unique Unit : Janissary, Sipahi

Cities :

Istanbul
Edrine
Bursa
Iznik
Uskudar
Izmit
Manisa
Aydin
Antalya
Konya
Adana
Sinop
Ankara
Kutahya
Balikesir
Eskisehir
Trabzon
Sivas
Kayseri
Karaman
Afyon
Uskup
Canakkale
Karahisar
Manastir
Silistre
Kavala
Kalkandelen
Mugla
Denizli
Bolu
Pristine
Saraybosna
Urfa
Diyarbakir
Erzurum
Antep
Maras
Bingol
Erzincan
Rize
Zonguldak
Dobruca
Sivastopol
Kirklareli
Samsun
Burgaz
Varna
Ruscuk
Tekirdag
Cankiri
Kastamonu
Bitlis
Mardin
Van
Milas
Kars
Ardahan
Beyazid
Nusaybin
Kerkuk
Suhumkale
Derbend
Yenikale
Batum
Baku
Iskece
Yozgat
Tunceli
Akhisar
Kirikkale
Iskenderun

Leader : Ragnar Lodbrok - Aggressive and Expansive, favors Slavery
Harald Hardråda - Aggressive and Spiritual, favors Hereditary Rule
Gustav II Adolf - Philosophical and Creative, favors Bureuacracy
Harald Bluetooth - Organized and Expansive, favors Organized Religion

Capital : Trondheim

Flag : Dragon-prow of a Longboat on blue(?) or black raven on white

Starting Techs : Mining and Fishing

Great Scientists : Carl von Linné, Anders Celsius, Jöns Jacob Berzelius, Anders Jonas Ångström, Carl Wilhelm Scheele, Tycho Brahe, Alfred Nobel, Niels Bohr, Ole Romer

Great Merchants : Ingvar Kamprad, Lars Magnus Ericsson, Ivar Kreuger, A.P. Moller

Great Prophets : Saint Birgitta, Saint Olav, Søren Kierkegaard, Raoul Wallenberg, Dag Hammarskjöld, Saint Knud, Holy Anders

Great Artists : Hans Christian Anderssen, Jenny Lind, Greta Garbo, Ingmar Bergman, Ingrid Bergman, Elsa Beskow, Astrid Lindgren, August Strindberg, Carl Michael Bellman, Evert Axel Taube, Anders Leonard Zorn, Edvard Munch, Edvard Grieg, Knut Hamsun, Henrik Ibsen, Selma Lagerlöf, Snorri Sturluson

Great Engineers : Johan Ericsson, Gustaf de Laval, Håkan Lans(?), Gustav Larsson, Mads Clausen

Unique Unit : Longboat, Berserker

Cities :

Trondheim
Birka
Hedeby
Uppsala
Ribe
Eketorp
Roskilde
Trondenes
Aarhus
Uppåkra
Sigtuna
Lindholm Høje
Skara
Visby
Tønsberg
Jelling
Lade
Helgö
Steigen
Aggersborg
Paviken
Slesvik
Odense
Reykjavik
Brattahlid
Viborg
Tunafors
Oslo
Bjørgvin
Jorvik
Nicopia
Alesund
Harstad
Örebro
Lejre
Aldeigjuborg
Nylösa
Ronneby
Westness
Jarlshof
Holmgård
Kvivik
Herjolfsnes
Lund
Askrigg
Sebbersund
Helsingborg
Nyborg
Lahammer
Tune
Seeburg
Ringerike
Fyrkat
Trelleborg
Bytoften
Brumunddal
Kramfors
Vinland
Köping
Västerås
Jomsborg
Könugård
Aker
Truso
Wolin
Aldeigjuborg
Straumfjörðr
Hóp

Please suggest leader traits. The ones I have listed here are the basic initial suggestions.

Leader : Hannibal - Aggressive and Expansive, favors Police State
Dido - Financial and Organized, favors Free Market

Capital : Carthage

Flag : Palm tree (with a horse) on burgundy

Starting Techs : Fishing, Hunting

Great Scientists : Bomilcar, Tanit, Eshmuniaton

Great Merchants :

Great Prophets :

Great Artists :

Great Engineers :

Unique Unit : War Elephant, Numidian Horseman

Cities :

Carthage
Utica
Malaca
Caralis
Panormus
Leptis Parva
Cartenna
Rusicade
Gades
Rusucurru
Girba
Leptis Magna
Carthago Nova
Oea
Tingis
Rusaddir
Alalia
Selinus
Himera
Akragas
Theveste
Saguntum
Carteia
Mainake
Sexi
Abdera
Lixus
Hippo Regius
Hadrumentum
Sabrata
Soleis
Motya
Tharros
Sulcis
Nora
Mago
Palma
Ebusus
Kinyps
Melite
Lilybaeum
Tangier
Algiers
Tripoli
Sijilmasa
Casablanca
Tamanrasset
Saldae
Rusguniae
Thaenae
al-Kaf
Zouchis
Gigthis
Tacape
Zama

Leaders : Brennus - Aggressive and Spiritual, favors Organized Religion
Vercingetorix - Organized and Financial, favors Mercantilism

Capital : Pyreene

Flag : Celtic cross?

Starting Techs : Hunting and Mysticism

Great Scientists : John Dee (alchemist), Giraldus Cambrensis, Ernest Jones, William Jones, Dr William Price, Alfred Russel Wallace

Great Merchants : Sir Howard Stringer, David Buick, Andrew Carnegie, John Law, William Paterson

Great Prophets : Saint David, Howell Harris, Seth Joshua, Saint Mungo

Great Artists : Aneirin (medieval poet), Ann Griffiths, Hedd Wyn, Walter Map, Henry Vaughan

Great Engineers : John Nash, Charles Stewart Rolls, Henry Bell, Charles Macintosh, James Watt

Unique Unit : Gallic Warrior

Cities :

Pyreene
Geneva
Milan
Galatia
Belgrade
Entremont
Dublin
Edinburgh
Cardiff
Budapest
Kells
Armagh
Caernarfon
Tintagel
Carmarthen
Caerphilly
Cork
Rhymney
Iona
Rhondda
Illauntanig
Swansea
Durrow
Merthyr
Tara
Llangollen
Dinas Powys
Aberystwyth
Rhayader
Abergavenny
Dinas Emrys
Cardigan
Llanelli
Maesteg
Neath
Angora
Alesia
Lugdunum
Camulodunum
Richborough
Verulamium
Gergovia
Augustodurum
Agedincum
Eboracum
Burdigala
Cataractonium
Lapurdum
Ratae Coritanorum
Tolosa
Lindum
Nemausus
Curovernum
Glanum
Isca
Segusio
Rutupiae
Monguntiacum
Glevum
Axima
Deva
Lezoux
Noviomagus
Arausio
Durocortorum

Alternate Gaulish city names by (Thamis):

Bibracte
Lutetia
Avaricum
Alesia
Cenabum
Tolosa
Uxellodunum
Vesontio
Agendincum
Cavillonum
Decetia
Gorgobina
Lemonum
Metlosedum
Narbo
Genava
Nemetocenna
Octodurus
Gergovia
Samarobriva
Bibrax
Matisco
Cavillonum
Burdigala
Agendincum
Redones
Santoni
Vellaunodunum
Mediomatrici
Atuatuca
Bratuspantium

Alternate Cornish Cities by (Sa~Craig):

Plymouth
Truro
Taunton
Exeter
St. Austell
Bridgwater
Torquay
Penzance
Glastonbury
Tiverton
Newquay
Frome
Helston
Cheddar
Barnstaple
Saltash
Crewkerne
Newton Abbot
Bodmin
Yeovil
Exmouth
Bude
Redruth
Minehead
Ilfracombe
Hugh Town
Bristol
Bath
Weston-Super-Mare


Alternate Welsh City Names by (Smokey Monkey):

Ruler:Prince Owain Glyndwr

Cardiff Caerdydd
Swansea Abertawe
St Davids Tyddewi
Bangor Bangor
Newport Casnewydd
Aberystwyth Aberystwyth
Llandaff Llandaf
Wrexham Wrecsam
Carmarthen Caerfyrddin
Conway Conwy
Milford Haven Aberdaugleddau
Haverfordwest Hwlffordd
Merthyr Tydfil Merthyr Tudful
Maesteg Maesteg
Caernarvon Caernarfon
Cardigan Ceredigion
Pembroke Penfro
Neath Castell-nedd
Bridgend Pen-y-bont
Llanelli Llanelli
Holyhead Caergybi
Caerleon Caerllion
Tenby Dinbych-y-pysgod
Caerphilly Caerffili

Leader : Shaka - Aggressive and Expansive, favors Police State
Nelson Mandela - Creative and Spiritual, favors Universal Sufferage

Capital : Ulundi

Flag : Pair of crossed spears on a zulu shield

Starting Techs : Hunting and Agriculture

Great Scientists :

Great Merchants :

Great Prophets :

Great Artists : Phuzekhemisi, Mfazomnyama, Ladysmith Black Mambazo

Great Engineers :

Unique Unit : Impi

Cities :

Ulundi
Lusaka
Bapedi
Sofala
Hlobane
Maputo
Isandhlwana
Durban
Intombe
Mpondo
Ngome
Swazi
Tugela
Umtata
Umfolozi
Ibabanago
Isipezi
Amatikulu
Zunguin
Dakar
Nairobi
Kinshasa
Zimbabwe
N'Djamena
Lubumbashi
Luanda
Intombe
Douala
Cape Town
Pongola
Mandini
Ixopo
Mtunzini
Empangeni
Umlalazi
Tuzi Gazi
Enseleni
Magudu
Vryheid
Nongoma
Babanango
Eshowe
Colenso
Nguthu
Hluhluwe
Jozini
Kosi Bay
Mkuze
Mtubatuba
Sodwana Bay
St Lucia
Umkomaas
Hibberdene
Amanzimtot

Please suggest leader traits and great leaders. The ones I have listed here are the basic initial suggestions.

Swedish cities: Sigtuna, Östra Aros, Västra Aros, Uppsala, Visby, Skara, Lund,

Nordic Scientists: Carl von Linné, Anders Celsius, Jöns Jacob Berzelius, Anders Jonas Ångström, Carl Wilhelm Scheele, Lars Magnus Ericsson, Tycho Brahe, Alfred Nobel,

Artists: Sören Kierkegaard, ABBA :), Metallica :) :) , HC Anderssen, Jenny Lind, Greta Garbo, Ingmar Bergman, Ingrid Bergman, Dag Hammarsköld(?), Elsa Beskow, Astrid Lindgren, August Strindberg, Carl Michael Bellman, Evert Axel Taube, Anders Leonard Zorn, Edvard Munch,

Merchants: Ingvar Kamprad, Lars Magnus Ericsson,

Engineers: Johan Ericsson, Gustaf de Laval, Håkan Lans(?)

Prophets: Saint Birgitta, Saint Olav,

Edit: If it's Scandinavians rather than Vikings only (since, for example, all scientific leaders come after the Viking period), Gustav II Adolf would be a nice leader and diversity from the Viking leaders. An improved cannon could be the UU.

Edit: If it's Scandinavians rather than Vikings only (since, for example, all scientific leaders come after the Viking period), Gustav II Adolf would be a nice leader and diversity from the Viking leaders. An improved cannon could be the UU.

I added your cities and people to the previous list, ABBA and Metallica are fun additions, but should we add them as great people of Vikings? Because they are a group of people, but i wouldn't mind it if people are pleased that way. :) Dag Hammarskjöld on the other hand is not an artist but a great diplomat. I placed him under prophets after his only published book "Markings" as he's truly a man of faith, duty and mission. Markings is a monumental book about his spiritual journey within his heart to transcend him deep into Mysticism.

Well here is a start for Polynesia - pardon any inaccuracies - I am very much an amatuer historian who is just develing into the Polynesian culture (I am not a naitve in any way shape or form) and this list is just meant as a starting point. It is as of now mainly an amalgamam of Maori and Hawaiin influences; however the area is rich wiht many other Island cultures so any other candidates are welcome.

Leader : Kamehameha the Great (Hawaii) Kopura-tahi (Mythical King of the forebears of the original Polynesians as preserved by the Takitumu tribe of Maori)

Capital : New Guinea (Place where it is generally thought the original Polynesians sailed from on their Diaspora)

Great Scientists : Tupaia (Navigator and Priest, Accompanied Capt. Cook), Duke Kahanamoku (Inventor of Surfing)

Great Merchants : Hiro (Legendary Tahtian who built first ocean going 'cargo' canoe thus enabling commerce and exploration)

Great Prophets : Te Kooti (Maori Religious leaswer and warrior) Lono (Hawiian God)

Great Artists : Don Ho, (Singer) Paul Gauguin (French Artist who made Tahiti famous)

Great Engineers : Atua Ure Rangi (Easter Island King representative of the building of the Moai - the Great Statues of Easter Island)

Unique Unit : Māori War Canoe

Cities (Note- Using Island groups here instead of cities to reflect the character of this unique culture):
Anuta (in the Solomon Islands)
Cook Islands (self-governing former territory of New Zealand)
Easter Island (part of Chile, called Rapa Nui in Rapa Nui)
Emae (in Vanuatu)
Hawai‘i (a state of the United States)
Kapingamarangi (in the Federated States of Micronesia)
Loyalty Islands (a dependency of the French territory of New Caledonia)
Mele (in Vanuatu)
Aotearoa (called New Zealand)
Niue (a self-governing dependency of New Zealand)
Nuguria (in Papua New Guinea)
Nukumanu (in Papua New Guinea)
Nukuoro (in the Federated States of Micronesia)
Ontong Java (in the Solomon Islands)
Pileni (in the Solomon Islands)
Rennell (in the Solomon Islands)
Rotuma (an island in the extreme north of Fiji)
Samoa (independent nation)
Sikaiana (in the Solomon Islands)
Swains Island (politically part of American Samoa)
Takuu (in Papua New Guinea)
Tikopia (in the Solomon Islands)
Tokelau (overseas dependency of New Zealand)
Tonga (independent nation)
Tuvalu (independent nation)
Wallis and Futuna (overseas territory of France)

Most Research from Wikpedia and New Zealand Electronic Text center http://www.nzetc.org/index.html

Posted this a while back, but here it is again

The South

Leader: I know that Jefferson Davis is the easy defaut for a Southern leader, but how about one of the secessionists instead of an inept leader of a bankrupt government? I say John C. Calhoun, philispohical (as there is no doubt he was an influencial and genius statesman, much like Scalia you might not agree with his views but its hard to disagree with his logic) and industrious (I realize that the South wasn't really industious at the time, but if you look at the actual benefit of wonder production then the promotion of a state's right to slave labor seems most appropriate). He would favor nationhood civic.

Alternate Leader: Martin Luther King, Jr. is spiritual and expansive and favors universal suffrage. This could help take the edge off of those who would falsely percieve a Southern civilization as predominantly racist (or at least any more racist than others). It would also be a giant step over the other alternate leaders which seem more or less to represent the same ideals perceptions on a civilizations culture.

UU: The Confederate Submarine. Should come along earlier than most other submarines, probably the same time as the ironclads and have the same stealth and attack capabilites of a normal submarine. Advantage of the unique unit is not in its base stats, but in the earlier spot on the tech tree.

Alternate UU: Johnny Reb. Is a unit that arises in any age as the highest tech defensive unit (spearmen, musketman, rifleman) who functions much like partisans in Civ 2, in that they pop up after an invasion. However, it would only occur after an invasion by a former ally...say a certain diplomacy ranking during the prior 10 or 15 turns. This would be a fairly accurate representation of the patriotic Southern soldier, who did not fight for slavery but against an invading army. Cost is free, but can not be built and occur at random roll of die (like global warming, but with better odds) and is affected by level of culture and happiness in the conquered city and units may continue to appear from the time of conquer until peace is declared. Is not available until the discovery of Civil Service.

Capital City: Atlanta, not the actual capital at the time of the war. However, there is no doubt that it is the capital of the New South and as we are looking at a civilization as a whole we should look at the entire history of the Civilization not just four years (hence the inclusion of Calhoun and King as the leaders). In addition, this would help with the problem of the South only building Richmond and America having 4 or 5 cities including "Atlanta" and then wanting to build other citeis and Atlanta not being a choice.

Other Cities: Richmond, Charleston, New Orleans, Savannah, Nashville, Birmingham, Jackson, Memphis (will probably be gone by the time you get to it b/c of Egyptians), Chattanooga, Willaimsburg and St. Augustine (very Old South), Charlotte and Arlington (representing the New South).

Great People, assuming like in Civ III

Great Artist: Faulkner

Great Merchantman: Ted Turner

Great Engineer: How about Andrew Jackson for the barricades in New Orleans "during" the War of 1812. Sorry I'm not an expert on great engineers.

Great Prophet: Billy Graham

Colors: Red, secondary Gray.

Flag: Anything other than the Confederate Battle Flag doesn't seem very depictive...but definently open to nonconfrontational alternatives, especailly with MLK as alternate who I can't see carrying a Confederate Battle Flag.

Culture group (I assume there is a visual difference in how units and improvements appear on the map): Mixed or Euro and African in appearance of units, but Euro in improvements and early settlements.

Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about computers and this is the only game I've really played since I was 13 years old when I got my first Civ I for my Dad's Mac. Anyone interested in helping me to create this civilization for real in the modding stuff, or want to give me some hints on how this can easily be done??? I get tired of just creating a custom civ and changing my leader name and cities to get the desired effect and end up with an Elephant as my unique unit. Thanks for reading this far.

huntunc's suggestion reminded me of the flags; it would be great if you could also suggest a brief description (or image if it's really necessary) of the flag of the civilization you are proposing. I would recommend the following default outline to avoid confusion:

Civilization :

Leader :

Capital :

Flag :

Starting Techs :

Great Scientists :

Great Merchants :

Great Prophets :

Great Artists :

Great Engineers :

Unique Unit :

Cities :

I added your cities and people to the previous list, ABBA and Metallica are fun additions, but should we add them as great people of Vikings? Because they are a group of people, but i wouldn't mind it if people are pleased that way. :) Dag Hammarskjöld on the other hand is not an artist but a great diplomat. I placed him under prophets after his only published book "Markings" as he's truly a man of faith, duty and mission. Markings is a monumental book about his spiritual journey within his heart to transcend him deep into Mysticism. I heard about his book "Markings", have you read it?

I should mention also that the list I posted is pretty Swedish-sided. Some of the persons might not be "great" enough, especially if any Danes or Norwegians, or Icelanders for the matter, would add their suggestions to the list...

You should also decide whether you want "anglospelling" or our native spelling to the names.

I heard about his book "Markings", have you read it?
I have read some articles on it with quotations. I'll lay my hands on it as soon as i can.You should also decide whether you want "anglospelling" or our native spelling to the names.Anything or any character that is going to appear on Civ IV is fine as long as there's no major difference between the local and international (Anglosaxon?) spelling. (As in Suleyman> Suleiman> Solomon> I prefer the first version in Turkish)

On the Celts; I admit my laziness at looking up great people - but we don't not have to put up with the Romanised versions of city names. Yes Persians can argue that about the Greeks naming their cities for posterity etc. Pinyin translations into English etc.

These all come from the Civ 3 forums:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96814
and
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=27092
and
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=33011 ("http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=33011)

Useful for the rest of the civs on this list. ( I think)

Also for the Irish Celts - can I put forward Brian Boruma as a leader? Someone else suggested it in another thread.

Iberian, Welsh and Breton Celts may also suggest leaders, cities and great people if they'd like.

Hm, perhaps August Strindberg would be a more reasonable choice than Abba, for the swedish civ ;) Also i think that Knut Hamsun was swedish too.

For a scandinavian civ you could also add Ibsen and Grieg

Civilization : British Empire

Leader : Queen-Empress Victoria (could use the same images as the English leader)

Capital : London

Flag : Union Jack

Unique Unit : Dreadnought-class warship (see Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Dreadnought_%281906%29)) to replace ironclad (does that exist in Civ4?)

Cities : London, Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, Leeds, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Cardiff, Dublin, Calcutta, Delhi, Belfast, Gibraltar, Ottawa, Singapour, Hong Kong, Sydney, etc etc!

Hm, perhaps August Strindberg would be a more reasonable choice than Abba, for the swedish civ ;) Also i think that Knut Hamsun was swedish too.

For a scandinavian civ you could also add Ibsen and GriegWell I did include August Strindberg in the list, although I did forget about

Selma Lagerlöf (artist)
and there are probably other too that should be in, especially Danish and Norwegian people.

Edvard Grieg (artist),
Knut Hamsun (artist)
Henrik Ibsen (artist)
are all Norwegian and should be included.

Snorri Sturluson, Icelander (artist)
deserves a spot as well.

edit: @Tunch Khan - Alesund is mentioned two times in your list, and Malmo->Malmö and Gavle->Gävle if you want to use å, ä, ö like in the latter cities (just to be consistent). I'm not sure whether you want the modern or the old citynames either, since you've named it a "Viking" civ. Whichever Västra Aros becomes Västerås, Östra Aros -> Uppsala and Uppsala -> Gamla (old) Uppsala. It might get confusing if you use cities from different periods without being consistent with their names....

They should put in some smaller civs. For example danish, israel, hungary....

Why Hamsun as scientist? he was an author :)

Why Hamsun as scientist? he was an author :)
:blush: True. Nobelprize in literature... you don't get more author than that.

edit: I did think "Nobelprice" looked strange....:crazyeye:

I have some of his books ;) "Hunger" is the one i like the most.

I have some of his books ;) "Hunger" is the one i like the most. I really should've read more of these authors' books :( , the only scandinavian, non-swedish, author's books I know and have read is Kierkegaard's, whom I really like btw.
I have to remember "Hunger" by Knut Hamsun anyway, maybe there's time to read it sometime....

This should probably go On Topic again....

@varwnos: Thanks for the tips, I've added them on the list.
@Loppan Torkel: thanks again, i've updated the list on great people and cities, but i'm not an expert on old viking names (Although i have one viking :viking:roommate that i'm afraid might one day use my skull for drinking the smirnoff-ice he plunders from my fridge), so i'll just use your word for it. Do they look more consistent now, or did I srew it up?

EDIT: I found another list that according to its author Isak is more historicly accurate and also includes your suggestions. So tell me which one should we keep; or should we make a hybrid? What about Vikings capital? I didn't see Trondheim in the second list.

You're welcome :)
The second list seems more accurate for a pure Viking civ, Nidaros = Trondheim.

Plus two additions:
Prophet: Raoul Wallenberg
Merchant: Ivar Kreuger

Edit: There are many cities I don't recognise also, being cities from all of scandinavia, some nowadays very small and some with their old names.

On the Celts; I admit my laziness at looking up great people - but we don't not have to put up with the Romanised versions of city names. Yes Persians can argue that about the Greeks naming their cities for posterity etc. Pinyin translations into English etc.
Also for the Irish Celts - can I put forward Brian Boruma as a leader? Someone else suggested it in another thread.
Iberian, Welsh and Breton Celts may also suggest leaders, cities and great people if they'd like.
Thank you very much for the links, they are most certainly very useful. However I couldn't find a "Celt" city names list. There was Welsh and Gaulish city names which we can incorporate or use either one of them, (I'd go for the Gaulish ones). With Celts the difficulty is that they have scattered around Europe settling from Turkey to Ireland but leaving behind very few written evidence, thus it's nearly impossible to craft one unique civilization out of these various Celtic tribes. It is also very hard to determine city names in their original language. So i'm placing alternate Gaulish and Welsh city names to the list and let me know which ones are more suitable. I'd also like to keep some of the city names from the original list such as Galatia, as it reflects the Celts diversity and reminds us of how far they have travelled and settled. One last question would be the capital of Celts, as they had no single empire but rather seperate tribes, which city could best represent the Celtic seat of power?

You're welcome :)
The second list seems more accurate for a pure Viking civ, Nidaros = Trondheim.

Plus two additions:
Prophet: Raoul Wallenberg
Merchant: Ivar Kreuger

Edit: There are many cities I don't recognise also, being cities from all of scandinavia, some nowadays very small and some with their old names. Thanks, I've added the people. About the capital, it's Birka then?
EDIT: I've also added Staraya Ladoga with it's proper Viking name to the list; Aldeigjuborg. It seems to have been founded by Vikings on their way south.

Thanks, I've added the people. About the capital, it's Birka then? I'm not sure which city should be the capital... The Danes, Norwegians and Swedes often fought amongst eachother, there aren't that many sources on the matter of capitals in these "loose" kingdoms. The Swedes were then up until recently divided in Svear and Götar... But I'd guess Trondheim or Copenhagen or their oldname counterparts would be good enough, but then again I've been raised with civ :) . Uppsala was probably an old Swedish site of power if I'm not mistaken. I think Birka was an old merchantplace.

Sigtuna is mentioned twice on the list and Nidaros and Kaupang seem to be the same city - Trondheim. And is Vinland really a city? :confused: that's what America was called...

The easy solution would be to make it Scandinavia and include all history up until now. Then you wouldn't have to worry about citynames or inconsistancy of persons included.

Is there a special category for philosophers in civ4? Kierkegaard is anyway the most known scandinavian philosopher. Did you know that he was part of a society called "the Symparanekromenoi"? :lol: Symparanekromenoi is greek for "fellow dead" :lol:
Also you should include Tycho Brakhe as a scientific leader (Denmark)

Is there a special category for philosophers in civ4? Kierkegaard is anyway the most known scandinavian philosopher. Did you know that he was part of a society called "the Symparanekromenoi"? :lol: Symparanekromenoi is greek for "fellow dead" :lol:
Also you should include Tycho Brakhe as a scientific leader (Denmark)Added Soren Kierkegaard as great prophet. Tycho was already suggested by Loppan Torkel and is in the list.;)

I would like to see the Yugoslavians. If not them as a whole civ then maybe Serbia. Also Poland, Ethiopia and Israel. I don't have names for anything but this civs are very important. These must be modded in!

Added Soren Kierkegaard as great prophet. Tycho was already suggested by Loppan Torkel and is in the list.;)Well, now Kierkegaard is both a great prophet and an artist....;)

Sigtuna is mentioned twice on the list and Nidaros and Kaupang seem to be the same city - Trondheim. And is Vinland really a city? :confused: that's what America was called...
Fixed Sigtuna and removed Nidaros and Kaupang, adding Trondheim as the capital. Reading some Wikipedia on Trondheim makes me choose it as the capital city. And it's inhabitants even revolted for a name change. :viking:
The easy solution would be to make it Scandinavia and include all history up until now. Then you wouldn't have to worry about citynames or inconsistancy of persons included.I was trying to stick to Vikings instead of Scandinavians as it was the name on the poll. Scandinavians are probably a more reasonable choice, but then again, people have romantic sentiments for Vikings, PTW had Vikings and they are more fun, more agressive, more adventurous. It's the same reason I like Vinland name, as it doesn't have to be %100 accurate, it's just a colony name and can be founded in Civ IV next to Baghdad or Beijing. :) I've also added two more settlement names, based on Viking sagas, it's just better than having Trondheim2 if the player wants more cities. I can take them off if it's too annoying, or can replace with better suggestions.

Beowulf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf)could be a prophet too since you're focusing on the Viking era. Another link (http://www.heorot.dk/beowulf-on-steorarume_front-page.html).

I've to ask also if you've done any freaky stuff with your avatar, having it making sounds when you move over it with the mouse-pointer? Or do I have some virus perhaps??:confused:

Well, now Kierkegaard is both a great prophet and an artist... fixed that too. I wish I had as much help with other civilizations too :)

Beowulf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf)could be a prophet too since you're focusing on the Viking era. Another link (http://www.heorot.dk/beowulf-on-steorarume_front-page.html). I've to ask also if you've done any freaky stuff with your avatar, having it making sounds when you move over it with the mouse-pointer? Or do I have some virus perhaps??:confused: Very interesting topic, but it seems as Beowulf is the name of a fictional carachter. I don't know how many great people are actually needed in Civ IV, but this one looks like a fun addition. It would have been great if we knew the author, which we could name under great artists also. But why do you think he needs to be among great prophets?
About your other questions, it might be too much pills consumed, :crazyeye: or you do actually have a virus. :lol:

I have some flag suggestions. For Babylon, a golden lion on dark blue. For Carthage, a white horse's head or possibly a palm tree on burgundy (both were common images on Carthaginian coins). And for the Vikings, a black raven on white (as illustrated here: http://atlasgeo.span.ch/fotw/flags/xn_raven.html )

I have some flag suggestions. For Babylon, a golden lion on dark blue. For Carthage, a white horse's head or possibly a palm tree on burgundy (both were common images on Carthaginian coins). And for the Vikings, a black raven on white (as illustrated here: http://atlasgeo.span.ch/fotw/flags/xn_raven.html ) Thanks for the suggestions. Do you have any info on the Babylonian flag you are describing? It's known that they didn't have flags back then, but perhaps some royal symbols inscripted somewhere?

Are you guys (and girls) sure that Great People are linked to its civilization? it could as well be that they are linked to technology, meaning there is one pool of names for everyone and depending on tech level, they get spawned. That's at least what I was thinking, when I saw some screenshots, especially turn logs from games, there was in one particular game, practically only western names, but at lest half of the civs in that game were not European...
But of course, that could also have been only an old built... :)

m

Are you guys (and girls) sure that Great People are linked to its civilization? it could as well be that they are linked to technology, meaning there is one pool of names for everyone and depending on tech level, they get spawned. That's at least what I was thinking, when I saw some screenshots, especially turn logs from games, there was in one particular game, practically only western names, but at lest half of the civs in that game were not European...
But of course, that could also have been only an old built... :)
m To be honest I'm not sure either, but I'd be dissapointed if it were like you are saying. Having Einstein born as a Turkish scientist in Ankara? It's kinda boring.

Thanks for the suggestions. Do you have any info on the Babylonian flag you are describing? It's known that they didn't have flags back then, but perhaps some royal symbols inscripted somewhere?

The lions were all over Babylon's Ishtar gate, Here's one picture. http://www.atlastours.net/iraq/babylon_relief.jpg They seemed to be the best symbols for Babylon, as far as I could tell.

The lions were all over Babylon's Ishtar gate, Here's one picture. http://www.atlastours.net/iraq/babylon_relief.jpg They seemed to be the best symbols for Babylon, as far as I could tell. You are right, I think lions must have symbolized the royal power and such. I've seen more lions than any other symbol anyway.

I would really like to see the Iroquois added. I don't have a lot of time right now to compose a full proposal for them, so I'll just link to the Wikipedia article on them. There is a lot of historical info there and a picture of their "modern flag"

Leaders could be "Deganawidah," also known as "The Great Leader" and the other leader could be Hiawatha. They were the two founders of the Iroquois Confederacy.

Anyhow, here's the link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois).

After I get the game, I'll look into how hard it'll be to add them. If anyone has any suggestions as to things like city names and great people and such, I'd love to hear it.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=33011 This thread has a good city list for the Iroquois.

Civilization : the Iroquois

Leader : Deganawidah, Hiawatha

Capital : Kanadaseagea

Flag : Iroquois stylized banner on purple

Starting Techs :

Great Scientists :

Great Merchants : Waraghiyaghey, Thayendanega

Great Prophets : Catherine Tekawitha, Neolin

Great Artists :

Great Engineers :

Unique Unit :

Cities :

Kanadaseagea
Little Beard's Town
Tionontogeh
Onienda Castle
Ganegahaga
Fort Onondaga
Chondote
Cayuga Castle
Canaseraga
Fort Niagara
Allegheny
Oquaga
Chemung
Tioga
Schenectady
Buffalo Creek
Buck Tooth
Caughnawaga
Kanesatake
Grand River
Oswegatchie
Canajoharie
Gandasetaigon
Ganogeh
Gayagaanhe
Gewauga
Kawauka
Kente
Kiohero
Neodakheat
Oiogouen
Oneniote
Onnontare
Owego
Skannayutenate
Canastigaone
Canienga
Caughnawaga
Churchtononeda
Kanagaro
Kowogoconnughariegugharie
Nowadaga
Onekagoncka
Onoalagona
Oquaga
Osquake
Saratoga
Schaunactada
Schoharie
Teatontaloga
Tewanondadon
Tionnontoguen
Unadilla
Awegen
Cahunghage
Canowaroghere
Canowdowsa
Chittenango
Cowassalon
Ganadoga
Hostayuntwa
Oneida
Opolopong
Oriska
Ossewingo
Ostogeron
Schoherage
Sevege
Tuscarora
Solocka
Tegasoke
Teseroken
Tetosweken
Tkanetota
Tolungowon
Ahaouet
Deseroken
Gadoquat
Gannentaha
Gistwiahna
Kanatakowa
Onondaghara
Onondahgegahgeh
Onontatacet
Otiahanague
Teionontatases
Tgasunto
Touenho
Tueadasso
Buckaloon
Canadasaga
Caneadea
Catherine's Town
Cattaraugus
Cheronderoga
Condawhaw
Connewango
Cussewago
Dayoitgao
Deonundagae
Deyodeshot
Deyohnegano
Deyonongdadagana
Deyosyowan
Gaandowanang
Gadaho
Gahato
Gahayanduk
Ganagweh
Ganawagus
Ganeasos
Ganedontwan
Ganos
Ganosgagong
Gaonsagaon
Gaousge
Gaskosada
Gathtsegwarohare
Geneseo
Gistaquat
Gwaugweh
Honeoye
Jennesedaga
Joneadih
Kahesarahera
Kanaghsaws
Kannassarago
Kashong
Kaskonchiagon
Kaygen
Keinthe
Middle Town
New Chemung
Newtown
Nondas
Oatka
Old Chemung
Onnahee
Onoghsadago
Onondarka
Owaiski
Skahasegao
Skoiyase
Sonojowauga
Tekisedaneyout
Tioniongarunte
Tonawanda
Totiakton
Yorkjough
Yoroonwago
Shawiangto

Civilization : Poland

Leader : #1 Kazimierz Wielki (Casimir The Great)
-Industrialist
-Scientific
#2 Jozef Pilsudski (Joseph Pilsudski)
-Militaristic
-Expansionist

Capital : Krakow or Warszawa

Flag : Should be the national Symbol (A crowned white eagle on a red shield)

Great Scientists : Marja Sklodowska-Curie

Great Merchants :

Great Prophets : Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II)

Great Artists : Jan Matejko

Great Engineers : Tadeusz Sendzimir

Unique Unit : Polish Hussaria (sidenote: Wings are attached to the horse not the rider)

Cities :

Gniezno
Krakow (if not the Capital)

I will fill you in more tomorrow that is if I won't be too busy with my brand spanking new Civ IV game ;)

hey what about Ethiopia, they were always one of the more powerful african nations, and would fill out africa nicely. Egypt, Carthage, Mali, Ethiopia and Zulu, make that continent feal nice and full. Trust me, I did it in Civ 3. It's a great use of space. On a world map, what is really needed (aside from civ 3 civs left out of civ 4, besides some of the repetative ones) are Siam, Ethiopia, Polynesia(though I have a feeling that the new barbarians could adequately fill the space on a world map), somethign with Australia, Something in Canada, Navajo(or Anasazi, Hopi ect. to fill out the SW US), Cherokee maybe, and something around north of the black and caspine seas to buffer the Russians and Mongols. Tartars perhaps?

hey what about Ethiopia, they were always one of the more powerful african nations, and would fill out africa nicely. Egypt, Carthage, Mali, Ethiopia and Zulu, make that continent feal nice and full. Trust me, I did it in Civ 3. It's a great use of space. On a world map, what is really needed (aside from civ 3 civs left out of civ 4, besides some of the repetative ones) are Siam, Ethiopia, Polynesia(though I have a feeling that the new barbarians could adequately fill the space on a world map), somethign with Australia, Something in Canada, Navajo(or Anasazi, Hopi ect. to fill out the SW US), Cherokee maybe, and something around north of the black and caspine seas to buffer the Russians and Mongols. Tartars perhaps? I will get to Ethiopia as that is one of my favorites. I need to polish some of the previous posts before. I want their ancient name: Abyssinia.

I expected to see Chopin as the polish great artist :)

I expected to see Chopin as the polish great artist :) Kiwusek is currently handling Poland, but if he gets too busy with Civ IV, i might give him a hand.. ;)

I spent the whole night on Iroquois history reading many [long] articles. It's surprising that they get so little attention than they actually deserve in North American history. I am pretty sure the city names are pretty accurate and in order of historical importance, but please let me know if you have alternate ideas.

Very interesting topic, but it seems as Beowulf is the name of a fictional carachter. I don't know how many great people are actually needed in Civ IV, but this one looks like a fun addition. It would have been great if we knew the author, which we could name under great artists also. But why do you think he needs to be among great prophets? He seems to have a reallife counterpart from what I've read, although it's all pretty much speculation for obvious reasons. The writer is unknown and the manuscript ended up in England. Making Beowulf an artist didn't seem quite right, plus there are so many already... Beowulf - a prophet spreading the Norse culture just seemed more fitting :), but it doesn't really matter, there might be other great people too that I've misplaced.

Civilization : : Austria-(Hungary)

Leader : Franz-Josef
-Creative
-Expansionist

Capital : Vienna
Flag : Double Headed Eagle. See Google

Great Scientists : Siegmund Freud, Christian Doppler, Wolfgang Pauli, Erwin Schrödinger, Gregor Mendel

Great Merchants : Frank Stronach, Didi Mateschitz

Great Prophets :
Great Artists : W.A. Mozart, Johann Strauss, Joseph Haydn, Franz Schubert, Franz Kafka, Johann Nestroy, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Arnold Schwarzenegger :P
Great Engineers : Fredinand Porsche, Viktor Kaplan, Johann Bernhard Fischer von Erlach

Unique Unit : Hussar
Cities :

Salzburg
Graz
Budapest
Prague
Lemberg
Brno
Triest
Lubijana
Linz
Innsbruck

Great Merchant: Didi Mateschitz

I would certainly NOT include that *******, I mean, he's alive and although he had quite some success, he also destroyed a lot of Austria on his way...

Otherwise, you're list is quite good, but putting Hungary only into brackets is somehow... well ... not ignorant nor arrogant, but just a little bit too Austria-friendly... :)

Greetings from the neighbour,

mitsho

I think by putting Hungary in bracelets GanJ0rm0n was suggesting an option to include the civilization either as Austria or as Habsburg Empire of Austria and Hungary. That is my interpretation of course. For those who post a new civilization; please try to add as many details as you can, whenever you get a chance by EDITING your original posting. You can add great people or new city names etc.

Leader : Osman Gazi, Suleyman the Magnificent, Mustafa Kemal

Capital : Istanbul

Flag : White crescent and star on red

Great Scientists : Molla Fenari, Ali Kuscu, Kadizade Rumi, Ibn-i Sina, Imam Gazali, Mahmud Sipahizade, Molla Lutfi, Mirim Celebi, Nasuh Matraki

Great Merchants : Ali Ekber (first Ottoman merchant to China), Seyfi Celebi, Ibrahim al-Tokadi, Seydi Ali Reis, Lutfi Celebi, Sakip Sabanci, Vehbi Koc, Nejat Eczacibasi

Great Prophets : Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi, Yunus Emre, Haci Bektas Veli, Pir Sultan Abdal, Hoca Ahmet Yesevi, Sheyh Bedreddin, Nasreddin Hoca (folkloric philosopher), Said-i Nursi (controversial spiritual person with significant number of followers), Asik Veysel

Great Artists : Dede Korkut, Omer Khayyam, Fuzuli, Evliya Celebi, Dede Efendi, Sinasi, Namik Kemal, Tevfik Fikret, Osman Hamdi Bey, Halide Edip Adivar, Nazim Hikmet, Orhan Veli Kanik, Yasar Kemal, Munir Nurettin Selcuk

Great Engineers : Mimar Sinan, Hezarfen Celebi, Piri Reis, Ibrahim Muteferrika, Mehmed Said Efendi, Cezayirli Gazi Hasan Pasa, Cezayirli Seyyid Hasan, Yanyali Hoca Ishak, Kirkor Amira Balian

Unique Unit : Janissary, Sipahi

Cities :

Istanbul
Edrine
Bursa
Iznik
Uskudar
Izmit
Manisa
Aydin
Antalya
Konya
Adana
Sinop
Ankara
Kutahya
Balikesir
Eskisehir
Trabzon
Sivas
Kayseri
Karaman
Afyon
Uskup
Canakkale
Karahisar
Manastir
Silistre
Kavala
Kalkandelen
Mugla
Denizli
Bolu
Pristine
Saraybosna
Urfa
Diyarbakir
Erzurum
Antep
Maras
Bingol
Erzincan
Rize
Zonguldak
Dobruca
Sivastopol
Kirklareli
Samsun
Burgaz
Varna
Ruscuk
Tekirdag
Cankiri
Kastamonu
Bitlis
Mardin
Van
Milas
Kars
Ardahan
Beyazid
Nusaybin
Kerkuk
Suhumkale
Derbend
Yenikale
Batum
Baku
Iskece
Yozgat
Tunceli
Akhisar
Kirikkale
Iskenderun

Ibn Sina and Omar-e Khayyam, were absolutely no Ottomans.

They both lived under various Turkish governments and their art and sience flourished in such an environment. I would not oppose if Persians claimed them as well, but they have definately become a part of Turkish culture due to their contributions and impact. If they are not already included in the game yet under Persians, then they will definately be placed in my mod as they are both Great People.

Civilization : Canada

Leader : William Lyon Mackenzie King
Pierre Trudeau

Capital : Ottowa
Flag : base red flag with a white square in its centre, featuring a red stylized 11-pointed maple leaf.

Great Scientists :Maude Abbott, Wilder Penfield, Hugh Le Caine, Gerald Hefferman, E.W.R. Steace, Frederick Banting

Great Merchants : Ken Thomson, Galen Weston, Jeff Skoll, John Irving

Great Prophets :

Great Artists : Pamela Anderson, Mike Myers, David Foley, Shania Twain, Celine Dion, William Shatner

Great Engineers : Reginald A. Fessenden, Sir Sanford Fleming, Elijah McCoy

Unique Unit : Mountie
Cities :

Toronto
Montréal
Vancouver
Ontario
Edmonton
Calgary
Quebéc
Winnipeg
Hamilton
London
Kitchener
St Catharines-Niagara
Halifax
Victoria
Windsor

Nice job TheBladeRoden. But i'm sure you can do better than that when it comes to city names :). Care to add a little more?

Leader : Hannibal


change that to dido (can't spell). Never thought that hannibal should get the role of leader in civ.

change that to dido (can't spell). Never thought that hannibal should get the role of leader in civ. Dido added as leader of Carthage, but you need to give credit to good old Hannibal :) he has more popularity than every other Carthagenian king or queen. Civ fans love him. :p

Normal it's Hannibal the Cannibal :mischief: :p

Dido added as leader of Carthage, but you need to give credit to good old Hannibal :) he has more popularity than every other Carthagenian king or queen. Civ fans love him. :p

Ok, hannibal it is

Civilization : British Empire

Leader : Queen-Empress Victoria (could use the same images as the English leader)

Capital : London

Flag : Union Jack

Unique Unit : Dreadnought-class warship (see Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Dreadnought_%281906%29)) to replace ironclad (does that exist in Civ4?)

Cities : London, Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, Leeds, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Cardiff, Dublin, Calcutta, Delhi, Belfast, Gibraltar, Ottawa, Singapour, Hong Kong, Sydney, etc etc!

Love this idea, but doubt you would get onto the 'oversea/empire' cities as the number of cities you appear to be able to expand to in Civ 4 is much lower. Would suggest that after 5 or 6 'British' cities (push Edinburgh, Cardiff & Belfast up the list) you continue with just 'oversea' cities. Additional city suggestion: Wasn't Egypt a target of colonial protection in the 1880's? Could Cairo or Alexandria be added to this list?

I think that the Unique Unit definately ought to be navy to represent British domination of the seas at this time. Possibly not Dreadnought though. I would think that a 'fast' unit as opposed to a 'strong' unit might better reflect the reach of the British Navy.

Don't know how many Victorian Great Scientists or Great Engineers will be needed, but here are a few I can think of off of the top of my head.

Scientists: Charles Darwin, James Clark Maxwell, Michael Faraday, Ada Lovelace, Joseph Lister

Engineers: Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Charles Babbage, Guglielmo Marconi (not British, but the Marconi Telegraph Co. was established in London), Sir Henry Bessemer (holds patent for first method for mass-producing steel), Alfred Waterhouse (Architect of London's Natural History Museum- should he be Engineer or Artist?).

Here's some more.

Artists: Charles Dickens, Edward Elgar, Alfred Lord Tennyson, Oscar Wilde.

Prophets: A difficult one to come up with names for. I'm inclined to go for political and social reformers here, rather than those linked with religon. How about Karl Marx (not British I know, but lived and worked over half his life in London. Philosophy inspired British labour movement in the 20th Century)? John Stuart Mill, William Booth (founder of Salvation Army), Benjamin Disraeli (put through the 1867 Electoral Reform Act), William Forster (Compulsory Education Pioneer).

Merchants: George Curzon (reorganised India's finance and commerce), Cecil Rhodes (founded De Beers diamond company amongst many other things), William Gladstone (champion of Free Trade), Sir Thomas Lipton (friend of Victoria's son Edward, Prince of Wales, and who made a fortune from groceries).

OK. So, they weren't off the top of my head. Got a little involved. Love the idea of a British Empire Civ. Perhaps this needs its own thread.

One final thing, perhaps I was lulled into thinking just about Victorian achievements (about 1840 onwards), but there is a whole lot of stuff that happened in the earlier part of the 1800's. Perhaps as an alternate leader we could have George IV, formerly the Prince Regent, who I am sure would have very different characteristics to Victoria (just had a Blackadder-esque moment there).

I think this has lots of potential. Comments?

Civilization : the Iroquois

Leader : Deganawidah, Hiawatha

Capital : Kanadaseagea

Flag : Iroquois stylized banner on purple

Great Scientists :

Great Merchants : Waraghiyaghey, Thayendanega

Great Prophets : Catherine Tekawitha, Neolin

Great Artists :

Great Engineers :

Unique Unit :

Cities :

Kanadaseagea
Little Beard's Town
Tionontogeh
Onienda Castle
Ganegahaga
Fort Onondaga
Chondote
Cayuga Castle
Canaseraga
Fort Niagara
Allegheny
Oquaga
Chemung
Tioga
Schenectady
Buffalo Creek
Buck Tooth
Caughnawaga
Kanesatake
Grand River
Oswegatchie
Canajoharie
Gandasetaigon
Ganogeh
Gayagaanhe
Gewauga
Kawauka
Kente
Kiohero
Neodakheat
Oiogouen
Oneniote
Onnontare
Owego
Skannayutenate
Canastigaone
Canienga
Caughnawaga
Churchtononeda
Kanagaro
Kowogoconnughariegugharie
Nowadaga
Onekagoncka
Onoalagona
Oquaga
Osquake
Saratoga
Schaunactada
Schoharie
Teatontaloga
Tewanondadon
Tionnontoguen
Unadilla
Awegen
Cahunghage
Canowaroghere
Canowdowsa
Chittenango
Cowassalon
Ganadoga
Hostayuntwa
Oneida
Opolopong
Oriska
Ossewingo
Ostogeron
Schoherage
Sevege
Tuscarora
Solocka
Tegasoke
Teseroken
Tetosweken
Tkanetota
Tolungowon
Ahaouet
Deseroken
Gadoquat
Gannentaha
Gistwiahna
Kanatakowa
Onondaghara
Onondahgegahgeh
Onontatacet
Otiahanague
Teionontatases
Tgasunto
Touenho
Tueadasso
Buckaloon
Canadasaga
Caneadea
Catherine's Town
Cattaraugus
Cheronderoga
Condawhaw
Connewango
Cussewago
Dayoitgao
Deonundagae
Deyodeshot
Deyohnegano
Deyonongdadagana
Deyosyowan
Gaandowanang
Gadaho
Gahato
Gahayanduk
Ganagweh
Ganawagus
Ganeasos
Ganedontwan
Ganos
Ganosgagong
Gaonsagaon
Gaousge
Gaskosada
Gathtsegwarohare
Geneseo
Gistaquat
Gwaugweh
Honeoye
Jennesedaga
Joneadih
Kahesarahera
Kanaghsaws
Kannassarago
Kashong
Kaskonchiagon
Kaygen
Keinthe
Middle Town
New Chemung
Newtown
Nondas
Oatka
Old Chemung
Onnahee
Onoghsadago
Onondarka
Owaiski
Skahasegao
Skoiyase
Sonojowauga
Tekisedaneyout
Tioniongarunte
Tonawanda
Totiakton
Yorkjough
Yoroonwago
Shawiangto

OMG! re: city list. Supposedly the average number of cities in a game of civ4 is 5 - 10. Which were the most important?

Why add British Empire when you've got England? Perhaps there's a good reason, I just feel it would be similar to adding Soviet to Russia, Holy Roman Empire to Germany, the Spanish Empire (?) to Spain, the Turks to the Ottomans or perhaps Scandinavia to the Vikings. Of course it never hurts to add alternatives but why not just add a different leader or UU and call it "the empire"?

Why add British Empire when you've got England? Perhaps there's a good reason, I just feel it would be similar to adding Soviet to Russia, Holy Roman Empire to Germany, the Spanish Empire (?) to Spain, the Turks to the Ottomans or perhaps Scandinavia to the Vikings. Of course it never hurts to add alternatives but why not just add a different leader or UU and call it "the empire"?

Because...England and Britain are very distinctly two different things.

Plus, English Empire sounds silly. There never has been and never will be an English Empire...OK I think about that for more than one second, and I suppose you might vaguely call Elizabeth I's England, an 'English Empire', with its colonies in America, or the English conquest of Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

PS: I'm not trying to start a flame war here, so no comments about Scotland, Ireland and Wales, please.

What I am trying to illustrate is that the 'British Empire' of the Victorian era is a distinct entity in its own right, and given the cultural exchange between Empire and Britain, I think there is a good case for its creation.

Although, I suppose you do also have a case to say that it isn't really a 'missing civ'. I'm sure that there are a dozen or so other civs that have a case of their own for inclusion in a 'missing civ' thread.

MESSAGE FOR dpaajones. If you really want to put together a British Empire civ, how 'bout's we start its own thread? I've also got a few ideas relating to a British Empire multiplayer game. What do you think?

Because...England and Britain are very distinctly two different things.


Not realy. I don't know why scottland, wales etc. have not been put in, but I just wouldn't work. I was about to add "the british empire" to my game, but I didn't work. Lopen torkel is correct. I would be exactly like adding scandinavia to vikings or soveit to russia. England din't actauly conquer the rest of britan, even if historicaly it did the most conquering, the british countrys kind of merged together. And Recoats were from the British Empire, also pointing out that at that time Britian was actualy a democracy (well, it was learning) and the monarchy that existed was much more of a figure head than a leader. But English Empire does sound silly.

ps. I think the british empire special unit should be the spitfire, being possibly the best and most loved fighter plane of all time.

The great canadian artist Pamela Anderson...

Not realy. I don't know why scottland, wales etc. have not been put in, but I just wouldn't work. I was about to add "the british empire" to my game, but I didn't work. Lopen torkel is correct. I would be exactly like adding scandinavia to vikings or soveit to russia. England din't actauly conquer the rest of britan, even if historicaly it did the most conquering, the british countrys kind of merged together. And Recoats were from the British Empire, also pointing out that at that time Britian was actualy a democracy (well, it was learning) and the monarchy that existed was much more of a figure head than a leader. But English Empire does sound silly.

ps. I think the british empire special unit should be the spitfire, being possibly the best and most loved fighter plane of all time.

1) At least we agree that English Empire sounds silly. :D

2) I'll agree that Lopen torkel has a point. But then, why is America a civ in the game. Barely 200 years old, the Native Americans deserve to be in the product much more surely? They occupied the land before their conquest.

I know this is a mute point. It's an American product, therefore an American Civ is included. And there is no doubting the point that the real 'American Civ' has influenced things globally since about 1900, as the British Empire starts to decline (It's golden age is over) having (perhaps arguably) had the major influence over world affairs during the 1800's.

3) 'The British countries kind of merged together'. Yes, Act of Union 1901, creating a distinct nation with its colonies abroad.

4) Love the spitfire, but I'd say its a little late for British Empire unit.

1) At least we agree that English Empire sounds silly. :D

2) I'll agree that Lopen torkel has a point. But then, why is America a civ in the game. Barely 200 years old, the Native Americans deserve to be in the product much more surely? They occupied the land before their conquest.

I know this is a mute point. It's an American product, therefore an American Civ is included. And there is no doubting the point that the real 'American Civ' has influenced things globally since about 1900, as the British Empire starts to decline (It's golden age is over) having (perhaps arguably) had the major influence over world affairs during the 1800's.

3) 'The British countries kind of merged together'. Yes, Act of Union 1901, creating a distinct nation with its colonies abroad.

4) Love the spitfire, but I'd say its a little late for British Empire unit.

wahey! I have made an agrrement with someone with only one post! right of passage number 2 out the way :mischief:

and I think if the dreadonought is early enough then the spitfire is defently ready for action. Remeber that india was still part of the British Empire during WWII, so technicaly spitfire deseveres a place. Spitfire mod here I come.

wahey! I have made an agrrement with someone with only one post! right of passage number 2 out the way :mischief:

and I think if the dreadonought is early enough then the spitfire is defently ready for action. Remeber that india was still part of the British Empire during WWII, so technicaly spitfire deseveres a place. Spitfire mod here I come.

Agreement #2: :D I think you're right that India was still part of the British Empire at the time of WW2, but the Empire was certainly past its sell-by date at that time. I mean, these days, our colonial possessions largely consist of penguins in the Falklands! I like the idea of a British Empire Civ focusing on the glory days (as any old imperialist would). But a Spitfire unit would surely be welcome. I'm playing a game of RaR at the moment, and they have 'flavour' units (units that can only be created by one or a few Civs).

Extending the Empire into the mid-20th Century I guess you could include a number of Empire flavour units.

Rule Britannia, I say! Long live the Empire, and God Save the Queen! (Vikky, that is.)

OMG! re: city list. Supposedly the average number of cities in a game of civ4 is 5 - 10. Which were the most important? I understand you concern, butyou don't need to worry about the long lists, as you just copy-and-paste the whole list and the most important ones will appear first. I just wanted to have an all inclusive list with no repeats. The city names list is the result of a through web search. If it's still too long, just get the first 10-15 names :) but they won't take up too much space anyway.

I understand you concern, butyou don't need to worry about the long lists, as you just copy-and-paste the whole list and the most important ones will appear first. I just wanted to have an all inclusive list with no repeats. The city names list is the result of a through web search. If it's still too long, just get the first 10-15 names :) but they won't take up too much space anyway.

Oh, it wasn't so much the long lists that I was worried about, more the fact that in previous Civ versions, I think, the computer always starts naming cities from the top of the list, yes?

If the average game only uses about 5 to 10 of them, I think it makes sense to have the most populus, or important cities at the top of the list. In a previous post about British Empire civ, I suggested using fewer British cities (perhaps 5), and then the rest from Empire. My thought being that it would be unlikely that you'ld ever see the overseas cities as they were lower down the list.

Oh, it wasn't so much the long lists that I was worried about, more the fact that in previous Civ versions, I think, the computer always starts naming cities from the top of the list, yes?

If the average game only uses about 5 to 10 of them, I think it makes sense to have the most populus, or important cities at the top of the list. In a previous post about British Empire civ, I suggested using fewer British cities (perhaps 5), and then the rest from Empire. My thought being that it would be unlikely that you'ld ever see the overseas cities as they were lower down the list. No you are right about the top of the list and that's why i placed the most important ones on the top, with the capital city being the first.

It would be nice if you guys can suggest some leader traits for Vikings, Celts, Babylonians and Carthagenians. Also great people names for those who don't have enough would be nice. So we can polish and pack the top 5 additions.

I hope someone mods these in soon, and I hope we can have all of them as potential civs. :goodjob:

I hope someone mods these in soon, and I hope we can have all of them as potential civs. :goodjob: We'd need some leaderheads as well, and that is going to be the toughest part I believe. The rest should be fairly easy with the World Builder and the XML.

Civilization : Israel / Hebrews

Leader : David - Spiritual and Expansive, favors Hereditary Rule
Solomon - Spiritual and Creative, favors Organized Religion
David Ben-Gurion - Organized and Industrial, favors Universal Suffrage
Golda Meir - Financial and Philosophical, favors Bureaucracy

Capital : Jerusalem

Flag : White, with Menorah emblem

Starting Techs : Mysticism, Agriculture

Great Scientists :

Great Merchants :

Great Prophets :

Great Artists :

Great Engineers :

Unique Unit : Mossad, Merkava, Maccabee

Cities :

Jerusalem
Haifa
Tel-Aviv
Megiddo
Hebron
Jaffa
Ashkelon
Rishon L'Tzion
Eilat
Ashdod
Netanya
Akko
Beit Shemesh
Arad
Jericho
Bethlehem
Dimona
Ein Gedi
Afula
Bat Yam
Beersheva
Holon
Petach Tikvah
Safed
Hadera
Herzilya
Raanana
Kfar Saba
Ramat Gan
Rehovot
Ashkelon
Kiryat Gat
Nazareth
Carmiel
Kiryat Shemona
Metulla

Civilization : Abyssinia (Ethiopia)

Leader : Menelek II, Haile Selassie I

Capital : Aksum

Flag : Green, yellow and red tricolor

Starting Techs :

Great Scientists : Meles Zenawi

Great Merchants :

Great Prophets : Presbyter John, Frumentius, Saint Takla Haymanot

Great Artists :

Great Engineers :

Unique Unit :

Cities :

Aksum
Matara
Zeila
Adulis
Jarma
Samidi
Gabaza
Sabat
Koloe
Qohayto
Tekondo
Walalah
Addis Ababa
Zala-Bet-Makada
Ham
Etchmara
Gulo-Makada
Haghero-Deragweh
Debre Berhan
Antsokia
Ankober
Entoto
Yeha
Dergouah
Henzat
Maryam Kedih
Anza
Hawzien
Degum
Malao
Opone
Apotopa
Acarre
Pare
Mouza
Ocelis
Napata
Meroe
Djbout
Asmara
Bahir Dar
Dire Dawa
Gamud
Debre Tabor
Asosa
Gambela
Adis Zemen
Nazret
Megalo
Gode
Werder
Geladi
Dolo
Maji
Murle
Tulu Welel
Gimbi
Nejo
Mek' ele
K'ebri Dehar
Degeh Bur
Dese
Imi
Himora
Ak'Ordat
Randa
Debre Birhan
Agaro
Shashemene
Aseb
Boorama
Barentu
Harer
Murle
Yabelo

Leader : Hannibal, Dido

Do we even know for a fact that Dido was a real person? Since the Romans only have Caesar, I don't think two Carthaginians are a priority.

I'm at a disadvantage in giving good suggestions, since I don't own the game, so I'm not sure about leader traits.

Hannibal strikes me as an agressive person. I personally think Caesar was organized, industrious, and other things, but he doesn't get any of them, which makes me wonder what Hannibal would get. I'd probably say Agressive and Organized. The Carthaginians are financial, but I wouldn't necessarily attribute that to Hannibal.

Capital : Carthage

Flag : Palm tree on burgundy

I personally like Rome Total War's symbol a lot (the crescent moon facing upwards with a circle below it). It could be too arabic, though.

I've never seen this palm tree thing before, but I don't know if my idea is any better or worse.

Starting Techs :

Still at a disadvantage with my knowledge. Maybe Fishing and the Wheel

Great Scientists :

Great Merchants :

Great Prophets :

Great Artists :

Great Engineers :

I'd have to think about these.

Unique Unit : War Elephant

I'd disagree here. Carthage's use of War Elephants have been vastly overrated in my opinion. I still think Numidian Horsemen are the best idea (and I've thought it since PTW). Not sure how to differentiate it from the Keshik, but it would probably replace Horse Archers.

Cities :

Carthage
Utica
Malaca
Caralis
Panormus
Leptis Parva
Cartenna
Rusicade
Gades
Rusucurru
Girba
Leptis Magna
Carthago Nova
Oea
Tingis
Rusaddir
Alalia
Selinus
Himera
Akragas
Theveste
Saguntum
Carteia
Mainake
Sexi
Abdera
Lixus
Hippo Regius
Hadrumentum
Sabrata
Soleis
Motya
Tharros
Sulcis
Nora
Mago
Palma
Ebusus
Kinyps
Melite
Lilybaeum
Tangier
Algiers
Tripoli
Sijilmasa
Casablanca
Tamanrasset
Saldae
Rusguniae
Thaenae
al-Kaf
Zouchis
Gigthis
Tacape
Zama

Seem fine :)

Do we even know for a fact that Dido was a real person? Since the Romans only have Caesar, I don't think two Carthaginians are a priority.... Hannibal strikes me as an agressive person. I personally think Caesar was organized, industrious, and other things, but he doesn't get any of them, which makes me wonder what Hannibal would get. I'd probably say Agressive and Organized. The Carthaginians are financial, but I wouldn't necessarily attribute that to Hannibal.... Carthage's use of War Elephants have been vastly overrated in my opinion. I still think Numidian Horsemen are the best idea (and I've thought it since PTW).
Thank you very much for all of your suggestions. Every suggestion is muchly appreciated.

What I'm trying to do in this database is to stick to historical facts as much as I can while modding these orphan civilizations in a way to make them popular, by including popular figures in history or popular myth. Hannibal was a statesman and general, but he's the only popular Carthagenian person. As is Dido, since she appears in many early Greek and Roman sources, some like respectable Virgil. She's considered as founding queen of Carthage and I think that should be enough for a fun mod that tries to revive an ancient civilization whose written records are long forgotten. Besides it's always nice to have a few extra ladies in our diplomacy screen. :)
About Romans having only Caesar, that's a shame. I'm a strong believer in presenting the players with as much diversity as possible. I'm sure they can add more leaders for Romans. If no one comes with a better idea (which I'm sure everyone has one when it comes to Romans) I will add Berlusconi as I'm a personal fan of his. ;)

The same popular idea goes for War Elephants. I'm not against Numidian Horseman but Hannibal's elephants were the subject of many popular stories all through the middle ages up until today. I believe they should be given some priority for these reasons, but I will place Numidian Horesman as a second UU.
I personally like Rome Total War's symbol a lot (the crescent moon facing upwards with a circle below it). It could be too arabic, though. I've never seen this palm tree thing before, but I don't know if my idea is any better or worse.
It has been suggested in this thread that palm trees would represent Carthage better, and after making some research on Carthagenian coins (which you can find here (http://ancient-coins.com/articles/carthage/carthage2.htm#410-390%20BC:%20The%20First%20Carthaginian%20Coin)) I have concluded to have either a palm tree or a horse under a palm tree as their flag. It seems that Carthagenians loved horses (which is a good sign for their Numidian Horseman UU) and they lived under the palm trees. :lol: There are some other animals like elephants and crabs as well as some crops, but horses and palms appear like in almost every coin through their histrory.

for the vikings, i whold use the biserker agin, it was a very good uu...


i whold personly use it to replace the maceman, or the ax man
give him the same stats, but insted of a 20% *or 25%* advantage aginst foot troops, i whold give it a 50% along with amphibius asult.maby even 25+ city atack
* whold that be too over powering??*

Civilization : Australia

Leader : Gogh Whitlam

Capital : Canberra

Flag : The Australian Flag

Starting Techs : Hunting, Fishing

Great Scientists : ????

Great Merchants : ????

Great Prophets : ????

Great Artists : ????

Great Engineers : ????

Unique Unit : Dig Infantry (more defensive Infantry)

Cities :

Canberra
Sydney
Tasmania
Melbourne
Wollongong (my father's home town)
Brisbane
more, but I can't be bothered to remember any more right now...:)

for the vikings, i whold use the biserker agin, it was a very good uu...


i whold personly use it to replace the maceman, or the ax man
give him the same stats, but insted of a 20% *or 25%* advantage aginst foot troops, i whold give it a 50% along with amphibius asult.maby even 25+ city atack
* whold that be too over powering??*

I like the berserkers as well, added to the Vikings. I need to wait and see the game files first to code the unit stats.

Civilization : Australia
...
Unique Unit : Dig Infantry (more defensive Infantry)

Cities :

Canberra
Sydney
Tasmania
Melbourne
Wollongong (my father's home town)
Brisbane
more, but I can't be bothered to remember any more right now...:)

dalek master; I know more Aussie cities than that and i haven't even been there yet. And you say your father's home town is over there, shame on you ;) put on some more cities. :) lol, kidding. Can you explain the dig infantry please.

dalek master; I know more Aussie cities than that and i haven't even been there yet. And you say your father's home town is over there, shame on you ;) put on some more cities. :) lol, kidding. Can you explain the dig infantry please.

It represents the Australian Military during wartime-australia. A nicer name than "anzac infantry", as "anzac" may be an unpopluar word umong aussies.

Leader : Hannibal, Dido

Capital : Carthage

Flag : Palm tree on burgundy

Starting Techs :

Great Scientists :

Great Merchants :

Great Prophets :

Great Artists :

Great Engineers :

Unique Unit : War Elephant, Numidian Horseman

...



Would the following be correct? I think that is the way it is in Conquests.

Starting Techs :Alphabet and Masonry


Great Scientists : Bomilcar, Tanit, Eshmuniaton


Unique Unit : Numidian Mercenary

Civilization : Serbia

Leader : Dusan

Capital : Belgrade

Flag : Red, Blue, White with 2-headed eagle

Starting Techs : Agriculture, Archery

Great Scientists : Nikola Tesla, Mihailo Pupin, Mileva Pavlovic (Albert Einstein's wife, great in physics herself, that he took most of his ideas from)

Great Merchants : Cirilo, Milutin, Nemanja,

Great Prophets : , Njegos, St. Sava, St. Nikola, St. Stefan

Great Artists : Zdravko Colic, Weird Al Yankovic :), Vlade Divac

Great Engineers : Ratko, Radovan, Momcilo

Unique Unit : Chetniks (guerilla that were fighting for king in WWII against both germans and communists)

Cities :

Belgrade (Capital)
Novi Sad
Nis
Podgorica
Banja Luka
Kragujevac
Sabac
Cacak
Trebinje
Srpsko Sarajevo
Subotica
Cetinje
Niksic
Vranje
Pristina (kosovo IS Serbia)
Smederevo
Zrenjanin
UZice
Kraljevo
Leskovac
Pirot
Budva
Zajecar
Negotin
Herceg novi
Pljevlja
Kos. Mitrovica
Kotor
Bor
Pancevo

It represents the Australian Military during wartime-australia. A nicer name than "anzac infantry", as "anzac" may be an unpopluar word umong aussies. Oh I got it, but i didn't know ANZAC would be unpopular as there's an ANZAC Memorial Day in Galippoli (Turkey) every year and the Aussies are always present with their highest representatives like Prime Minister and many Aussies travel across the world to attend it.

Would the following be correct? I think that is the way it is in Conquests.
Starting Techs :Alphabet and Masonry

Great Scientists : Bomilcar, Tanit, Eshmuniaton

Unique Unit : Numidian Mercenary
Thanks for the ideas. Added the techs and scientists. I think I placed Numidian Horseman which are mercenaries already. Let me know if that doesn't work.

Civilization: Portugal

Leader: - D. Afonso Henriques (Founder and first King of Portugal – Expansive and Agressive)
- Infante D. Henrique (Prince Henry) (Starter of the Age of Discovery - Expansive and Organized)

Capital: Lisboa (Lisbon)

Flag: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/pt).html, http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/pt-1143.html

Starting Techs:

Great Scientists: Egas Moniz (nobel prize of medicine), Pedro Nunes (mathematics, astronomy),
Bento de Jesus Caraça (mathematics), António Damásio (medicine),
Daniel Sampaio (medicine), Garcia da Orta (biology)

Great Merchants: (I put the portuguese great navigators, from age of discovery here,
I think they fit, dont really know the meaning of tycoon)
Vasco da Gama, Pedro Álvares Cabral, Fernão de Magalhães, Gil Eanes, Bartolomeu Dias.

Great Prophets: Padeira de Aljubarrota (Woman baker), Irmã Lúcia (Sister),
António de Pádua (Santo António) (Saint), Papa João XXI (Pope), Padre António Vieira (Priest)

Great Artists: Vasco Santana (cinema), Manoel de Oliveira (cinema), Luis vaz de Camões (literature),
Gil Vicente (literature), Almeida Garrett (literature), Eça de Queiroz (literature),
Fernando Pessoa (literature), José Saramago (nobel prize of literature),
Amália Rodrigues (music), Zeca Afonso (music), Carlos Paredes (music),
Maria João Pires (music), João Cutileiro (arts), Vieira da Silva (arts)

Great Engineers: Marquês de Pombal, Fontes Pereira de Melo, Siza Vieira, Edgar Cardoso, Fernando Távora

Unique Unit: Nau (Carrack) or
one from here (hard to choose):
http://www.viriatus.com/catalog.asp?Escala=54&Per=Z (since I only see ground units in civ4)


Cities:

Lisboa
Porto
Faro
Guimarães
Coimbra
Braga
Beja
Setúbal
Leiria
Aveiro
Guarda
Bragança
Ponta Delgada
Portalegre
Évora
Viseu
Vila Real
Viana do Castelo
Santarém
Funchal
Goa
Damão
Diu
Ceuta
Luanda
Lourenço Marques
Bissau
Praia

Confederate States:

Leader : Jefferson Davis, Woodrow Wilson

Capital : Richmond

Flag : 1st Confederate National Flag ( Red/White Fields, Blue Circle with white Stars)

Starting Techs :Agriculture, horseback riding

Great Scientists : George Washington Carver, Matthew Fontaine Maury

Great Merchants : Howard Hughes, Etienne de Bore

Great Prophets : MLK Jr,

Great Artists : Louis Armstrong, Elvis Presley

Great Engineers : Merewether Lewis (admittedly my knowledge is weak here, but he did find a way west to the pacific, so I'm sure he built a canoe or something along the way)

Unique Unit : Mounted Infantry, or Early Sub.

Cities :
Atlanta
Nashville
Macon
Jacksonville
Chattanooga
Knoxville
Little Rock
Houston
Dallas
Baton Rouge
Jackson
Charlotte
Charleston
Birmingham
Huntsville
Pensicola
Key West
Memphis
Fort Smith
Murfreesboro
Raleigh
Winston-Salem
Greensboro
Tulsa
Muskogee
Oaklahoma City
Auburn
Montgomery
Tuscaloosa
Selma
Tallahassee
Tampa
Gainsville
Cape Canaveral
Savannah
Dalton
Pine Bluff
El Dorado
Vicksburg
Meridian
Natchez
Biloxi
Gulfport
Sumter
Shreveport
Lake Charles
Lynchburg
Norfolk
Arlington
Kingsport
Lubbok
El Paso
Amarillo
Corpus Christi

Civilization : Canada

Leader : William Lyon Mackenzie King
Pierre Trudeau

Capital : Ottowa
Flag : base red flag with a white square in its centre, featuring a red stylized 11-pointed maple leaf.

Great Scientists :Maude Abbott, Wilder Penfield, Hugh Le Caine, Gerald Hefferman, E.W.R. Steace, Frederick Banting

Great Merchants : Ken Thomson, Galen Weston, Jeff Skoll, John Irving

Great Prophets :

Great Artists : Pamela Anderson, Mike Myers, David Foley, Shania Twain, Celine Dion, William Shatner

Great Engineers : Reginald A. Fessenden, Sir Sanford Fleming, Elijah McCoy

Unique Unit : Mountie
Cities :

Toronto
Montréal
Vancouver
Ontario
Edmonton
Calgary
Quebéc
Winnipeg
Hamilton
London
Kitchener
St Catharines-Niagara
Halifax
Victoria
Windsor

To add to his 15.

St. John's
Gander
North Sydney
Lunenburg
Yarmouth
Fredrickton
Moncton
Charlottetown
Trois-Riviers
Hull
Sudbury
North Bay
Mississauga
Thunder Bay
Sault Ste Marie
Saskatoon
Moose Jaw
Red Deer
Yellow Knife
White Horse
Iqaluit
Alert
Prince George
Banff
Stewart
Guelph
Inuvik
Churchill
Sherbrooke
Chicoutimi
Regina
Kelowna
Medicine Hat
Kamloops
Lethbridge
Victoria -- Or is this too common
Brandon
Portage La Prarie
Flin Flon
Sept-Iles

How many of each group should we try to have at a minimum? and at a max?

For cities 25-50?
Each category of great people 10-20?

Louis Riel should be a great prophet. There are a few Canadian saints too but I don't know them off of the top of my head.

Great Artists: Micheal J. Fox, Maragret Atwood, Robert Service, Tom Thompson (the rest of the group of 7),

And one minor correction it's Ottawa.

St. John's
Gander
North Sydney
Lunenburg
Yarmouth
Fredrickton
Moncton
Charlottetown
Trois-Riviers
Hull
Sudbury
North Bay
Mississauga
Thunder Bay
Sault Ste Marie
Saskatoon
Moose Jaw
Red Deer
Yellow Knife
White Horse
Iqaluit
Alert
Prince George
Banff
Stewart
Guelph
Inuvik
Churchill
Sherbrooke
Chicoutimi
Regina
Kelowna
Medicine Hat
Kamloops
Lethbridge
Victoria -- Or is this too common
Brandon
Portage La Prarie
Flin Flon
Sept-Iles


Alert, Yarmouth, and Iqaluit before Regina and Victoria?

wtb byzantium =)

We'd need some leaderheads as well, and that is going to be the toughest part I believe. The rest should be fairly easy with the World Builder and the XML.

I always thought they were hard to make. Somehow, though, we got tons of leaders from the fans for Civ3, I think Civ4 will do just fine.....

The same popular idea goes for War Elephants. I'm not against Numidian Horseman but Hannibal's elephants were the subject of many popular stories all through the middle ages up until today. I believe they should be given some priority for these reasons, but I will place Numidian Horesman as a second UU.

Little known fact is that, of the Elephants that crossed the Alps, all of them died by the second or third battle (many of them just dying in the crossing). The only one that survived was the one Hannibal road. The only place Hannibal got to really try out Elephants against the Romans was at Zama, where he lost (the Elephants were the reason he lost, since Scipio had figured out how to defend against them and caused them to panic and stampede across Hannibal's own troops). The most effective use of Carthaginian Elephants against Rome predates Hannibal and would have been in the first punic war.

BTW, after looking at some information about different units, one thing I think Numidian Horsemen should get is a withdraw ability (from what I hear, Horse Archers do not). I'm not sure what the Horse Archer gets, but the Keshik gets first stike, so I think they should get it as well. So that would be 6 strength, 2 movement, 25% retreat chance. Not sure how powerful that is, don't want it to completely outclass contemporary units (especially Roman Praetorians).

It has been suggested in this thread that palm trees would represent Carthage better, and after making some research on Carthagenian coins (which you can find here (http://ancient-coins.com/articles/carthage/carthage2.htm#410-390%20BC:%20The%20First%20Carthaginian%20Coin)) I have concluded to have either a palm tree or a horse under a palm tree as their flag. It seems that Carthagenians loved horses (which is a good sign for their Numidian Horseman UU) and they lived under the palm trees. :lol: There are some other animals like elephants and crabs as well as some crops, but horses and palms appear like in almost every coin through their histrory.

OK, than that's cool :)

Alert, Yarmouth, and Iqaluit before Regina and Victoria?
I suppose I should have ordered them by importance, or at least by aproximate founding date. Instead I just went east to west and then realized I was doing provincial capitals too.


Here is an ordered list by aprox size/importance. Starting with capitals and fixed a few spleling mistakes.

Ottawa

Provincial Capitals

Toronto
Québec
Edmonton
Winnipeg
Halifax
St. John's
Victoria
Regina
Fredricton
Charlottetown

Territorial Capitals

Yellowknife
Whitehorse
Iqaluit

The non-capital important cities

Montréal
Vancouver
Calgary
Mississauga

The rest in no particular order

Saskatoon
Moose Jaw
Red Deer
London
Kitchener
Windsor
Gander
Churchill
Sherbrooke
Chicoutimi
Kelowna
North Sydney
Lunenburg
Moncton
Trois-Riviers
Gatineau
Sudbury
North Bay
Thunder Bay
Hamilton
Sault Ste Marie
Brandon
Portage La Prarie
Alert
Prince George
Banff
Yarmouth
Stewart
Guelph
Inuvik
Medicine Hat
Kamloops
Lethbridge
Sept-Iles
Squamish
Flin Flon
Punkydoodles Corner

Ok some of those may be on there for my amusement :D

Some more prophets care of Wikipedia: Jean de Brébeuf, Noël Chabanel,Antoine Daniel, Charles Garnier, René Goupil, Isaac Jogues, Jean de Lalande, Gabriel Lalemant.

Unique Unit : Numidian Mercenary

One thing about PTW's Numidian Mercenary is that they intentionally misnamed it. Carthage was a rich nation that depended completely on hiring mercenaries. They used Spanish troops, Phoenician troops (from other Punic cities besides Carthage herself, which was exempt from serving), and even Celtic troops (Hannibal especially relied on them to take the blunt of Roman attacks because many of his soldiers died crossing the alps and he could readily replenish them). But a good portion were African. The Numidian tribes that lived near by were good for light cavalry (such as the javelin throwing horsemen they were famous for). But their foot soldiers weren't very good, being mostly lightly armed skirmishers. The bulk of the heavy infantry were Pikemen from Libya. Firaxis was going to call Carthage's uu the Libyan Mercenary (check the INI file, it still says Libyan Mercenary). Unfortunately, Libyan Mercenary sounds like some kind of terrorist, so they changed it to Numidian Mercenary.

EDIT: Need to comment on this

Starting Techs :Alphabet and Masonry

Isn't Alphabet later in Civ4? Do civs really start with stuff so advanced? Since Carthage is historically a mercantilistic power than dominated the mediteranian, I figure they have to start with fishing, so they can get sailing easily. The Phoenicians (who founded Carthage) are the origins of our modern alphabet, so the other tech besides fishing probably should be something that leads to Alphabet. The Wheel works well, since they are from the Middle East).

Isn't Alphabet later in Civ4? Do civs really start with stuff so advanced? Since Carthage is historically a mercantilistic power than dominated the mediteranian, I figure they have to start with fishing, so they can get sailing easily. The Phoenicians (who founded Carthage) are the origins of our modern alphabet, so the other tech besides fishing probably should be something that leads to Alphabet. The Wheel works well, since they are from the Middle East).

Yes alphabet is later, it's in the classical age. That aside being the only civ that starts with the ability to trade tech for a good 50 turns or so would just be too powerful. I wouldn't start with something that far in, but you could if you wanted. With the way it's setup you could start with any tech, building or unit or all of them for that matter.

It does sound powerful. I think Fishing and the Wheel would work well (its what Japan has, for what its worth).

I hadn't had the game at that point, now that I own my very copy (thank you :) ) I will fix the alphabet problem. The techs ladder is in front of me and they are so not getting alphabet that early, lol :).

So it turns out we won't be needing so many Great People for each seperate civilization as they are drawn from a generic pool. So it doesn't matter which civ you are playing, you'll get the same names. So you are getting Saint Paul for Muslim Prophet and so on. At least it's less work for us until someone codes through Phyton to have them seperate.

So it turns out we won't be needing so many Great People for each seperate civilization as they are drawn from a generic pool. So it doesn't matter which civ you are playing, you'll get the same names. So you are getting Saint Paul for Muslim Prophet and so on. At least it's less work for us until someone codes through Phyton to have them seperate.That's dissapointing... But one could imagine the difficulty of coming up with great people for some civs, such as Inca for example.
Even so, I hope someone mods this soon, the civs are already generic enough.

That's dissapointing... But one could imagine the difficulty of coming up with great people for some civs, such as Inca for example.
Even so, I hope someone mods this soon, the civs are already generic enough. If they really wanted they could have easily found some Inca great people through a web search or a visit to local library. I mean look at us finding all this information in like 4 days by ourselves. And we do this as a hobby, like none of us gets paid for this. :)
All in all i played and finished a tiny world scenario and i like the game a lot. There's a lot of room for improvement. But on the other hand it's obvious that the game was not ready for release as it's full of bugs. Half of my initial wonders were already obselete by the time i built them.
In-game graphics are real good, on the other hand every other graphic sucks. There are no advisor graphics (could be modded by us). Diplomacy screen is chaotic as well as other side screens. Civ III interface is ten times better plus very user-friendly. I couldn't get to see Diplomacy Victory video (if there is one). End game graphics and interface are still behind Civ III.
But again, these are all moddable, and the main concept is ok, and we definately have more options, so i'll just be patient.

Oh I got it, but i didn't know ANZAC would be unpopular as there's an ANZAC Memorial Day in Galippoli (Turkey) every year and the Aussies are always present with their highest representatives like Prime Minister and many Aussies travel across the world to attend it.

then chagne it to "anzac infantry then". I always though anzac day was more grim than that, being the memorial for a massacre.

then chagne it to "anzac infantry then". I always though anzac day was more grim than that, being the memorial for a massacre. There wasn't a massacre afaik. Gallipoli was a front of the First World War when British Empire and her allies decided to make a landfall on Gallipoli peninsula when the allied navy could not pass through the Dardanelles to occupy Istanbul. The eight month-long struggle between the Allies and Turkish forces is known as the Battle of Gallipoli. So serious were the casualties on both sides, that Winston CHURCHILL, Lord of the Navy at the time, was removed from his office and had to stay out of politics until WWII. On the other hand, Gallipoli was a fair battle in which both Turks and Anzac soldiers gained respect for eachother. Both sides were observing the old chivalrious rules of the war in a time of despair. This is what Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (Turkish General at Gallipoli, then revolutionary leader and first President) said after the war:

" Those heroes that shed their blood and
lost their lives...! You are now lying in
the soul of a friendly country, therefore
rest in peace. There is no differences between
the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they
lie side by side here in this country of ours...

You, the mothers who sent their sons from far away
countries wipe away your tears. Your sons are now
lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having
lost their lives on this land they have become
our sons as well."

Can someone try to describe Canadian UU mountie with it's abilities? Oh, we all know how cool they look like, but do they have firearms and such?

To add to his 15....How many of each group should we try to have at a minimum? and at a max?

For cities 25-50?
Each category of great people 10-20?

Louis Riel should be a great prophet. There are a few Canadian saints too but I don't know them off of the top of my head.

Great Artists: Micheal J. Fox, Maragret Atwood, Robert Service, Tom Thompson (the rest of the group of 7),

And one minor correction it's Ottawa.

I'll definitely be making a Canadian Civ (without leaderheads because I cannot do graphics :).

I'll likely go with:

Leader: Pierre Elliot Trudeau, Sir John A. MacDonald

Capital: Ottawa; Flag: white with red maple leaf (need help for graphic)

Scientists:
Frederick Banting (NP medicine); Gerhard Herzberg (NP chemistry); John Polanyi (NP chemistry); Michael Smith (NP chemistry); Sid Altman (NP chemistry); Abraham Gesner (kerosene); Roberta Bondar (astronaut); Sir William Osler (physician)

Merchant:
Louis B. Mayer (movies); W.C. Van Horne (railway); Roy Thompson (media); Galen Weston (grocery); K.C. Irving (oil); Joseph-Armand Bombardier (airplanes/snowmobile); Timothy Eaton (dept stores)

Prophet:
St. Marguerite Bourgeoys; Saint Marguerite d'Youville; Blessed Brother André; Kateri Tekakwitha; Marshall McLuhan (theorist); Charles Taylor (humanist philosopher); Norman Bethune (humanitarian)

Artists:
Emily Carr (painter); Tom Thomson (painter); Yousef Karsh (photographer); Charles Daudelain (sculptor); Maragret Atwood (author); Robertson Davies (author); Glenn Gould (composer); Karen Kain (dancer)

Engineers:
Frank Gehry (architect); Ernest Cormier (engineer); Joseph-Armand Bombardier (engineer/inventor); Moshie Safdie (architect); Sir Sanford Fleming (standard time); Sir William Logan (geologist); Elsie McGill (engineer)

UU: Mountie is a possibility, but I'd go with Canada Corps (WWI infantry)

Cities:
(note: you need fewer of these in Civ4 than you did in Civ3, as I understand; these are based on 1) size, 2) capitals, 3) regional rep)

- Ottawa
- Toronto
- Montreal
- Vancouver
- Edmonton
- Calgary
- Winnipeg
- Quebec City
- Halifax
- Regina
- Hamilton
- Victoria
- St. John's
- Mississauga
- Saskatoon
- Sault Ste Marie (my hometown, so...)
- Fredericton
- Whitehorse
- Charlottetown
- Yellowknife
- Iqaluit
- Kitchener
- Saint John
- Trois-Rivieres
- St. Catharines
- Saguenay
- Sudbury
- Kelowna
- Brandon

Again, the above list is not just based on size, but tries to give some regional flavour. Other bigger cities include Laval, Oshawa, Kingston, Thunder Bay, Sherbrooke, Richmond.

Windsor and London are hard to add because they are both used by ENG.

Can someone try to describe Canadian UU mountie with it's abilities? Oh, we all know how cool they look like, but do they have firearms and such?

Modern "Mounties" ride in cars and carry pistols. :)

But the "Red Serge" mounties of the 1880s (the ones people think of when they think 'mounties') usually did not carry weapons.

Modern "Mounties" ride in cars and carry pistols. :)

But the "Red Serge" mounties of the 1880s (the ones people think of when they think 'mounties') usually did not carry weapons. Well they should still have a firepower of some sort if we're considering them as a modern/industrial UU for Canada, no?