Level: Monarch
Civilization: Germany Fredrich
Map Type: continents
Size: Standard

mark1031
Shillen
Nerovats
grahamiam
Rince
jameson

So you have backed off of emperor, then? I was rather hoping you would stick to your guns and give that a go, even with all of the recommendations to start lower.

Well it looks like this game didn't happen. But I'm looking for an SG to join if you still want to get one going. All the other ones seem to be filled up. Kind of ironic, I'm actually playing a Prince game with Frederick before I read this post and it seems to be heading towards a peaceful victory. But I'd be up for any game really, even if it's the same thing.

I'm open for this game. We can play any civ we want (guess I'll have to change the title) but I'm thinking of upping it to Monarch. What do you think?? We will get people eventually and can just start with 3 or 4.

I'd like to join an SG as well. Just played my first game on noble. Without really knowing what to do it was a piece of cake. So I suggest to move level up at least 1 maybe 2 notches. As my pc is below adviced spec I'd prefer not to go over normal world size.

Yeah the next difficulty up after Prince sounds good to me. I just finished my game today (I'm playing way too much) with a cultural victory. It took me all the way until 1968AD to win, though. 50,000 culture in each of 3 cities is a crapload of culture.

Any civ will do for me, also any starting point, as everything will be a new challange ;)

Well I went ahead and started this. We need 2 more players for a peaceful (probably) monarch game. We got what seems to be a standard fresh water start with pigs and ivory. Ivory allows a very nice unit as well as being a lux. I was thinking we might go for a culture win on this one 3 cities with >50K. I tried on prince and lost by 2 turns but I learned a lot (alos did it as a 3CC so could do better without that restriction). I'm not sure the capitol is such a great city for one of the 3 as it is shield poor but could be a commerce generator. But I marked out 3 spots that would be strong and one that would capture stone. If we decide to try this we should get a city up there first and grab the stone and start on the pyramids. Although more exploration might reveal better spots and we need to pick them carefully. They need good growth and shield potential.

Now I explored in both directions and we are sandwiched between Persia and France but have plenty of room to expand. I researched animal husbandry and the wheel and am now working on bronze working for the forest chops. If we do go culture we must grab the stone and try for the pyramids to get an early indust leader.

mark1031
Shillen-> up
Nerovats-> on deck
open
open

Ok I took a quick look at it but need to go to work soon. I'll play it later tonight.

Berlin does not look like a poor shield city to me. It has a bunch of grassland forests which not only provide a shield but 2 food as well so there's no harm in working them. Sure grassland hills are better than forests but you don't find that many of them. The ivory also gives a bonus to production. Production is rather hard to come by in civ4. Now of course copper and iron are great for production when we can see them.

I guess that answers my question why you are going for bronze working instead of picking up a religion? I've actually never tried a game of civ4 without going for a religion right off the bat. That will be a lot of lost income if we don't get one of our own. Have the religions already been founded? I'm not sure how fast the AI researches on Monarchy.

In my culture win on prince I got beaten to a lot of wonders by 1-2 turns. It was quite frustrating. On Monarch we'll probably miss a bunch by 10ish turns hehe. But they're still worth going for of course if we want culture.

Well overall looks like a good start location. I'll see what I can do tonight.

I would have gone for a religon too. But this way is different, will be educational anyway. Since we're all newbies now, there's no telling really what's right and what's wrong. Personally I haven't quite figured the religon part out yet. Also the terrain still puzzles me. I can't tell what a tile will give without opening the city screen. The new setler/worker production would suggest it's best to wait a bit before starting to produce settlers, First worker, then 1 or 2 buildings to get pop up, then settlers should be produced rather quickly.

hi, looks like i didn't make the cut for the lotr 16, so I'm in need of a second game. you got spots on a level over my head right now, so I'd like to sign up :D

I can't tell what a tile will give without opening the city screen.
FYI, one of the buttons above the minimap shows tile production on the world map. Woked tiles have their production icons larger than unworked, as well.

Also the terrain still puzzles me. I can't tell what a tile will give without opening the city screen. The new setler/worker production would suggest it's best to wait a bit before starting to produce settlers, First worker, then 1 or 2 buildings to get pop up, then settlers should be produced rather quickly.

Actually I think it's important to settle as quickly as possible. Yes, it will hurt our economy early on to have too many cities, but we'll need those cities later and it's easier to grab them now than to fight an AI to get them later. Now on some maps it's possible to block off the AI from moving settlers into your territory with closed borders so we should look into that option. But if we can't block them off then we should sign open borders for the increase in attitude it brings.

we should wait on the settler till size 3 or 4 if we can (perhaps the worker will help us get there faster). just thinking about the 100 food/shields required for the settler. building it now may stunt our growth for too long as we are about ready to finish a worker right now. perhaps there's something we can start building now as we grow, then switch over to a settler once we get the food+shields per turn up to around 12-15.

Can i still sign up?

I'd like to join, please. Still finding my feet in Civ4, but at least I've got it
confirmed up and running properly. I used to play deity in civ3, but that doesn't seem at all relevant for Civ4 right now.
In any case, nothing wrong with a challenge :).

we should wait on the settler till size 3 or 4 if we can (perhaps the worker will help us get there faster). just thinking about the 100 food/shields required for the settler. building it now may stunt our growth for too long as we are about ready to finish a worker right now. perhaps there's something we can start building now as we grow, then switch over to a settler once we get the food+shields per turn up to around 12-15.

Oh I didn't mean build a settler right now. But I'm not going to build buildings before it. I usually build my settler at size 4 but it really depends on the map. I intend to build units in the meantime until we're ready for a settler. Settlers definitely need escorts in civ4. I'll send the escort ahead to clear the fog and check for barbs since the settler moves faster than the escort. But once I leave our borders the settler will be protected at all times because you never know when he'll step next to a barb. Also, I haven't played the difficulties above prince yet, but I've heard stories about the barbs being much more plentiful and aggressive so I think it will be more important to build up military and clear out barbs than normal. Never hurts to play it safe on a new difficulty. I'd rather lose via space race in 1900AD than lose to barbarians in 1000BC.

good points shillen, military sounds like the right choice right now.

Welcome grahamiam Rince jameson we are now full. And for strat. Yes I think we need military as the barbs can be quite nasty. I think first settler should come @ size 3 or 4 and should grab the stone site. I'd love the pyramids to get to representation right away for +3 happy. BTW I went for bronze right away for the forest chops. They can really help production and grabbing and early wonder. I also like the chop help to get settlers out faster.

I don't think we should chop our forests down as it kills the production in our cities and you can't get it back.

3000BC - I see that Buddhism and Hinduism are both founded already. I don't think we'd get to Judaism before the AI. The only way we'd get our own religion is to research straight to code of laws right away and I don't think it's worth it. We'll have to be the faithless for now. I'm tempted to switch research to pottery right now as I don't find bronze working to be a very valuable tech unless you plan to go to war early, which we aren't. The only forests I would chop down are the ones on the hills since a mine is better, but the forests on flat lands are good production tiles that should be left alone, IMO. I'll leave research alone as we're halfway done researching it and chopping the forest on the hill can help out a bunch on our settler. There's a lot of desert to the NE and N so there's no reason to settle there. The incense and gold will come under Berlin's cultural expansion. The land to the west has some great city sites. The SE and SW look promising as well but aren't scouted out yet.

2960BC (1) - We finish our worker and I move him to the pig hill to build a pasture. Berlin starts on a warrior due in 5 turns. Since nothing can get to us in 5 turns and we can afford the happiness hit I send our lone defending warrior to the SW to scout the blackness down there.

2920BC (2) - Nothing much.

2880BC (3) - Nothing much.

2840BC (4) - We meet Hatshepsut of Egypt in the SW. She has no religion. Bleh further exploring makes it look like it's all jungle to the SW. We pop a goody hut with our NE scout and get another scout. That scout discovers marble along the coast up there. We may be able to get both marble and stone. Check the AI's attitudes toward each other. Hatty doesn't like Cyrus but Cyrus likes Hatty. Hatty likes Louis but Louis doesn't like Hatty. Cyrus and Louis don't know each other. Nice little triangle there. It means no matter who we trade with we're going to get a rep hit with one of them.

2800BC (5) - Man I've never seen so much jungle on one map before. And for a continents map this is one giant continent. Odd I just noticed there is no happiness hit in Berlin for having no defender. Wonder why that is. We're still 5 :) - 2 :( anyway.

2760BC (6) - Berlin finishes a warrior and starts on another warrior. Our worker finishes his pasture and builds a road. Find a possibly great city location in the SW.

2720BC (7) - Find horses in the tundra north of the desert. Crazy how fast you can go from desert to tundra. :lol: Find Caesar to the far far far West. Woohoo he has a lower score than us. He only knows Hatty.

2680BC (8) - We finally learn Bronze Working. I don't adopt slavery as it's not worth the turn of anarchy since it's doubtful we'll be whipping at all. I start research on archery because I hate building warriors. Archers are at least useful for a bit. Aw crap. I was wondering why the pigs didn't connect to Berlin when I finished the Pasture. I didn't think I needed a road but since Berlin wasn't getting the pig I built it anyway. Now even with the road it still isn't connected to Berlin. It turns out Berlin is not even considered to be on the river, it's getting its fresh water from the lake. Oh well, I'll have to road another tile then. Berlin doesn't even need the pig yet, though so I'll go build the camp on the elephants rather than waste another two turns building another road. We can do that later. Hmm Hatty is Buddhist now with the holy city as well. I don't know why she wasn't Buddhist before since the religion had been founded already when I met her.

2640BC (9) - Berlin finishes another warrior. Start on another warrior. I have warrior in 4 and growth in 4. So after the warrior is done we can build a settler. I send the warrior NW to check for barbs by the stone where our second city is going to go. Oh I forgot to check the map for copper when we discovered bronze working. Well there wasn't any. But I just found some in the desert north of Berlin not too far from the horses.

2600 BC (10) - The worker starts building a camp on the ivory. Doh, our northern scout ends next to a lion. He's on a hill though and gets 100% bonus against animals so cross your fingers.

Ok so we have archery in 3 turns. We have our warrior and growth to 4 in three turns. We should build a settler next. Send the new warrior to the NW with the other warrior.

Here's a picture of our surrounding areas and where I think our cities should go:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MM8_city_locs.JPG

Stone city - This should be our first city and hopefully build the pyramids there. That will be a strong city with the rice, stone, plains and hills obviously.

Great production city - This should be our second city and also one of our three culture cities. It has 2 spices by it which are bonus food. It has 4 grassland hills once you clear the jungle off them and 2 plains hills. It also has 2 plains forest tiles. It will be great production. Also the big body of water to the left of it is a lake so it has 2 food tiles even without a lighthouse.

Great leader city - This is where we will generate tons of great artists. It has 4 flood plains tiles, banana tile, and after clearing the jungle will have a lot of grasslands that can be irrigated.

Marble city - This would be a high production city but it's lacking in food until we can get irrigation up there. The sheep will help, though.

City here - A good solid city. We can either use this as our third culture city or use Berlin. I'm inclined to use Berlin just because Berlin will have a head start already. If not for that this city would probably be slightly better.

Later city - This is to pick up the horses and copper. It will also grab the silver with 2 expansions.

There might be a good city spot SW of Stone City as well but we haven't explored there yet.

City here too eventually. This is just a filler city next to our capital. We can make it a high commerce city to help keep up in science. I would say low priority on settling this one as the AI is not likely to settle that close to our capital so we won't lose the spot


mark1031
Shillen
Nerovats-> up
grahamiam-> on deck
Rince
jameson

edit: I know I wrote a lot. I won't write as much in later turns. I just think the early game is an important time when important decisions are made and it will help us all learn the game better if people explain the decisions they make in detail.

pre-turn
looking good
2560BC
moving
IBT lion loses to warrrior
2520BC
let warrior heal, explore
2480BC
learn archery set science to writing to be able to research alphabet next to trade techs.
Berlin warrior->settler
get map from hut
2440BC
worker to hill
2320BC
get 40 gold from hut
2280BC
scout ends up next to bear and barb
IBT, loose the scout
2000BC
positioned 2 warriors to keep path to 1th suggested city site out of the fog.
No screenie as nothing new to see really.

102333

Took a quick look at the new save. I guess there wasn't much to do during your turn with the settler going. The worker was supposed to chop before mining, though. With mining and removing forest at the same time the settler will be done before the shields get added to Berlin. Not a big deal, though. We can use it to get an instant archer I guess and start on another settler right away or whatever grahamiam decides.

Also, did you remove the city labels I had or do they not get stored with the save file? Kind of sucks if they don't get stored. Anyway with the further exploring it seems the horse town should be moved a bit more west (to the other horses) where it can grab the rice and copper as well within its radius. There's another nice spot on the coast up there with cows, game and whale also. And I didn't realize Egypt was so close. So we need to grab that "great production city" with our second settler pretty quickly.

Just for clarification, are we going for the stone or the production city first ?

Also, should we try for Stonehenge and the very useful free Obelisks or just spam settlers until we've got our empire up and running ? (I'm leaning towards the latter here myself - I'm not at all sure we can get Stonehenge now).

looks like I'm up. got it, will play and post tonight. I am against "spamming settlers" till we have some more infrastructure. Perhaps 3 or 4 cities by 1000 BC is practical, and they should be going for the key resources I believe, so I'm with Shillen in going for the stone. steady expansion rather than fast seems best.

@shillen: the text and drawings on the map do not get saved.

Preflight check: Ivory is camped but not connected. Settler due in 2T as well as the mine. 4 civ’s known (Persia, Egypt, Rome, and LoueyFrance)

I now fully understand the problem with the chop. We will have 30 hammers in the bucket when the current settler is done, and we’re doing 11f/spt. So, I think I’ll put the f/s towards the next settler, then switch to an archer for defense/growth (we can grow 1 more pop).

T1: 2160BC Find Copper due W (S of the stone). Interesting, the game seems to show that the workers will be done in 2T on turn 2200BC, but the mine is now complete and the extra 30 shields are in the bucket (119 total), but no settler :hmm:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/grahamiam/mm8-2160BC.jpg

T2: 2120BC settler -> settler
Settler moves out, workers move 2T to get the ivory connected

T3: 2080BC switch to archer. Caesar is running around with a lot of archers per the Western scout (see 2 stacks of 2 archers, with one accompanying a settler).

T4: 2040BC Maoist Chinese meet our warrior holding on to the stone area. Since I alt-tabbed to get out and write the above, I now can only pick war???? Take a pic just so the local Firaxans can see it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/grahamiam/mm8-2040BC.jpg

Ok, so I try for a little bit to get the bottom overlay off the darn screen (I even hit the green button but Mao’s mug is still on the stinkin’ screen). I hit esc, click around over the overly, and finally get out of it at 2000BC :lol:


T5: 2000BC Workers have roaded to the river, connecting the ivory. They then move over to connect the pigs

IBT: Lord McCaulty writes that we’re fine.

T6: 1960BC Settler almost in postion

IBT: Defend against barbs in the NW, winning and promoting (take Woodsman I)
Archer -> archer

T7: 1920BC Hamburg founded -> archer

IBT: Persia wants Open Borders but I turn it down for now as we haven’t discussed this yet.

T8: 1880BC nada

T9: 1840BC dancing with barbs
Archer -> settler

T10: 1800BC running from barbs (at least the NE scout is :lol: ). Pigs and ivory are now connected with the capitol. I’m also roading towards the new city (I assumed it would be the cow city so we have a string of cities to support each other), utilizing the river to complete the trade network and to save worker turns. Settler due in 4T and there’s an archer in town to escort it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/grahamiam/MM8-1800BC.jpg

Ok, looks like i'm up next. Got the savegame.

I will play it at around 22:00 GMT. Any consensus on where to build the next city? Cow between Berlin and Hamburg? Or the 'great production city'.

Any input appreciated.

Rince

Also, did you remove the city labels I had or do they not get stored with the save file?

Haven´t changed any settings. I would agree with settling on key resources first. What is wise about research. It went for trading possibilities, then suggest to research whatever is farthest up the ladder, should be able to trade for the lower techs later on.

The cow city would get started a lot faster as "great production city" needs jungle clearing which we can't even do yet I don't think and we'd probably need more workers to help out. The only concern is Egypt taking the spot away from us since she's not far away from there at all.

As for open borders I think we should definitely sign it with everyone. We're going for a peaceful game right? We also need to get them to spread their religions to us as religion is a huge source of culture in this game. We're not going to win culturally if we don't get some religion in our cities.

On the diplomacy bug, it always does that if you alt tab out on the diplomacy screen. You can use the up and down arrows to move through the choices. So you could have just hit the down arrow and enter to choose peace option. Very annoying bug though.

Good call on putting the forest chop shields into a settler instead of the archer. I love the stored production in civ4.

worker is roading to the cow area. therefore, if we settle at the cow, all three cities will quickly benefit from the pigs + cows (health) as well as the ivory (happy). for that reason, i believe the cow is the way to go. great production city should be next, as it'll seal off the S pretty good so I wouldn't mind building another settler right away. However, after that, we'll need some time to get our empire up to snuff with improvements and military as the AI has a lot of archers running around.

Wow looks like we have some great lands. I think we should spam settlers a bit and grab land aggressively. There is a penalty for this but if we also put up lots of cottages on the river tiles we should be able to handle it. Don;t forget we are cultural so we expand and will out culture the nearest AIs. Don't be afraid to be aggressive and backfill but then get up military fast. Forrest chops are very powerful I would use them until health=happy (you get health from forest).

Ok, here are my turns. Please bear in mind that i only played one CIV IV game so far and that this is my first SG.

1760 BC: Not much happened, scouts are exploring and the workers are constructing the road to cow city

1720 BC: Barbarians approach Berlin from the east and the north. No panic since Berlin is well defended (2 Archers, 1 Warrior).

1680 BC: Barbarians to the east of Berlin seem to have founded a camp! Sending an archer to investigate. Barbarians to the north disappeared.

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg1.jpg

1640 BC: Settler completed in Berlin -> build an Archer before the next Settler in view of the Barbarian threat. Settler is moving towards cow spot, escorted by the second archer of Berlin. Meanwhile to the far west our scout meets barbarian warriors.

1600 BC: The barbarians attacks our scout and we loose!

1560 BC: Munich (aka Cow City) is founded! Setting production to another Archer.

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg2.jpg

Meanwhile our archer reaches the barbarian camp, Kassite. And man, it's well defended! A total of three archers are in there. No way to kill them at the moment.

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg3.jpg

I also just realised that chopping down a forest for the archer in Berlin is not a good idea. Change production to worker instead. He's due in 3 turns.

1520 BC: Our 3 cities are now connected by roads and rivers! We have a nice territory now.

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg4.jpg

I move the archer away from the barbarian town but keep him on a nearby hill to watch the situation. This move already proves useful since we spot another barbarian warrior possibly approaching berlin.

1480 BC: Barbarians turn away from Berlin. Worker now building a pasture for the cows.

1440 BC: Second worker built in Berlin, resuming archer. Scout to the far north meets barbarian archer.

1400 BC: Archer in Berlin -> Settler. Scout to the north evades the barbarians. New worker set to Hamburg for mining.

The french seem to have founded a city in the middle of nowhere!

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg5.jpg

Outlook: Alphabet in 8 turns, Settler in 7. Our army consists of 1 scout, 4 warriors and 3 archers.

Phew, 10 turns sounds like nothing but it's quite a bit of work! I'm tired, have to go to bed now.

Greetings,

Rince

102465

Got it ( just before heading to bed, so it'll be somewhere from 12-24 hours before I play).

Hazy first thoughts:
Probably best to just ignore the barbs and keep settling the better sites, or should we slot in some more workers first ? And do we have any particular research goal ?

I'm inclined to pick up pottery for granaries first if we don't have it yet. Suggestions welcome,.

I see we haven't opened borders still. We need them open. Especially with Egypt since she has a religion she can spread to us. Having good relations with the AI so they're willing to trade techs and help you out in wars is huge. They're also a lot less likely to declare war on us.

I hope we get alphabet first and can get a lot of the earlier techs for it. We could really use agriculture, pottery, fishing, and iron working. The religious techs will be important eventually too once we have a religion. Make sure when you learn alphabet you check the relations each AI has to each other. You're almost guaranteed to piss a civ off (or multiple civs) the very first trade you make. They don't like when you trade with civs that they don't like (it's usually a -4 penalty!). Make sure you're pissing off the fewest civs possible while getting the most techs possible.

Leave the barbarian town alone. They're freaking hard to take with archers in them. We'd need swordsmen at the least and probably more than 2 of them. It's really a waste of time. We will have to get rid of it eventually but for now just let it sit down there. From my experience they'll build like one archer every 20+ turns and send it at us. No big deal. Where they built the city is actually just as good if not better than where I showed for a great leader city. I didn't see that other banana over there. Two grassland bananas + grassland rice and a lot of other grassland. That's awesome. Add national epic and we can be pulling in close to 100 great leader points per turn fairly early in the game. Much higher when we get to biology late game.

We need another worker badly with 3 cities now. After this next settler we really need to take a break from settling as our economy is going to be in bad shape. We also really need to get some libraries and granaries built (once we trade for pottery). Hamburg needs to start on pyramids very soon, if not right after the archer if we want to get them. The marble will have to be hooked up of course and farming the rice and mining the gold hill will be important also.

Went and played before going to work :)

Inherited turn: Do nothing, look at the techs. We need both agriculture and pottery

1360 BC (1) Fortify archer as a lookout, a barb appears north of Hamburg. Scout locates furs in the icy peninsula to the North.

1320 BC (2) Worker starts mine on the gold near Hamburg since we can't farm the rice until agriculture or work the stone until masonry.

interturn: Hamburg archer defends against barb, barb archer kills scout.

1280 BC (3) Worker connects Berlin to Munich by road for strategic reasons

1240 BC (4) Waste worker turns by right-clicking on terrain I want information on :rolleyes:

1200 BC (5) Munich builds archer, starts another. I want it slightly bigger before I halt its growth fo 12 turns building a worker which at this point cannot accomplish much yet due to lack of techs. Ilost another worker turn since the automove wasn't turned off by clicking on the worker again.

1160 BC (6) Gold mine finishes, I cannot road it since a barb archer is coming

(it) the barb archer moves as if to pillage it instead of approaching Hamburg

1120 BC (7) Alphabet comes in, set to agriculture for now.

IT Archer defeats Barb archer on defense and promotes ( I choose the generic strength

upgrade)

1080 BC (8) Remember to do the tech trades:

Writing to Hatshepsut for agriculture (a good trade for her, but on the bright side, it makes the next trade possible)
Alphabet to Cyrus for Fishing, Animal Husbandry and masonry. (She hates Louis by the way)
Animal Husbandry to the Sun King for Mysticism ( he was the only one who would trade it)

I should have kept a better log since we also picked up iron working and are all caught up in tech with the known civs.

Sign open borders with everyone except Louis as he's not quite as powerful as Hatty and she hates him (and is much prettier :D ).

Research set to pottery for cottages and granaries.

1040 BC (9) Working....

1000 BC (10) Cologne founded (our 'great production city') Munich worker goes to connect plains iron. Both Hamburg and Berlin are almost done with a worker, we have Stonehenge and the Pyramids available to build. Munich has one turn into a library, given that it's food poor probably better to swap it to a granary. We certainlly cannot afford another city right now since we are at 40g and running -9gpt.

accidentally pressed enter at the end, so it's 975 BC now.

the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/mm8_BC-975.Civ4SavedGame)

And a pic of our empire:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/mm8_empire.JPG

Hi guys

I'm away from home until sunday evening. I'll post in this thread once i'm back. As long as you don't hear from me, skip me please.

Good luck with our game.

Rince

Got it. I'm sot so sure anymore about culture as we should have gotten a religion for that but my understanding of religion was limited at the start of this game. We could still hopefully get one of the later religions and if we get connected to Hattie hopefully Budd will spread. Will see about getting some wonders and maybe expanding a bit and start to specialize our cities. It would be nice to get that marble up north and we need a FP city to churn our GP.

975: Switch Munich to Pyramids as the stone will be hooked soon and it doesn’t need a library.

950: Someone built stonhenge

925: Oh Oh. Barbs appear near Hamburg. Move archer out to protect the gold hill.

900: Hamburg worker->archer

875: Our brave archer beats a barb archer and warrior. He was fortified 1 turn and defending on hill across a river.

850: Poly in. Alpha -> Louis for Priesthood, Monotheism, and Sailing. This was a good deal. I don’t see the alliances shaking out yet and I would like to get us a religion. Set research to Theology to find Jesus.

825: zzz

800: zzz

775: Hamburg Archer-> granary

750-700: Workers work. I am chopping 2 forests by Munich to help with the pyramids and to get some growth and $$. There is a library building in the capitol. Once it finishes I would switch to high commerce and spit out another settler. I am building some cottages.


Shillen-> Up
Nerovats-> On deck

Hi guys.

I'm back.

Hi right back at you :).

I think Shillen is up ?

Ok I have it.

pre-turn: I sign open borders with Louis because you don't get a rep hit for doing that even if they're enemies with another AI. I think it's only on resource deals that that happens. I don't think even techs do it, but I'm not positive. We want Louis to spread his hinduism our way. Man 30 more turns to research theology. We are going to want to capture that barb town as soon as we can build some swordsman too, before the AI takes it. Which 3 cities are going to be our culture cities? I'm thinking Berlin, Munich and Cologne. Hamburg is going to have food problems so it probably won't be able to work all of its hills. I take a warrior out of hamburg and send him north to bust up some fog and reduce the chance of barbs spawning up there. Take one out of Berlin to do the same. Turn science up to 80%, 22g, -2gpt, theology in 22 turns. Ok that's not as bad.

(1) 675BC - An Egyptian Buddhist missionary appears SW of Cologne. It looks like she's taking him to China or something, though. :mad: Confuscianism is founded in a faraway land.

(2) 650BC - Berlin library->settler. Oracle built in faraway land. Caesar converts to Confuscianism. Munich grew. Put worker on forest, still 2 food surplus, pyramids in 6 turns. The Germans founded another city grabbing the copper to our NE. The AI's are closing around us already.

(3) 625BC - A forest has grown near Munich. :)

(4) 600BC - Not much.

(5) 575BC - China sends an archer and a warrior into the barb town borders with 3 archers in it. :lol: Way to throw away units Mao. Another Buddhist missionary heading towards China/Persia. What the hell Hatty, send them up our way.

(6) 550BC - Nothing much.

(7) 525BC - Caesar calls up and wants Polytheism for Meditation. It's not a bad deal. Comparable techs but we don't really need meditation until we have a religion. Then again, theology is due in 10 turns and it's not like caesar wouldn't learn polytheism in like 2 turns anyway. I do it.

(8) 500BC - Pyramids complete. :dance: Hmm, I want some swordsman to take barb town, but do we need a barracks first? Surely the free city raider promotion would help, probably even save a swordsman. But at the same time we could get nearly two swords out in the time it takes to build a barracks and then we can get back to building culture. On the other hand we could always turn research down and upgrade a couple warriors, but that's rather expensive. We'd need to turn research down for a long time. Oh wait, warriors only upgrade to axemen, not swords. Ok swordsman it is.

(9) 475BC - WTF? Christianity has been founded in a far away land. Looks like it's China. Man, I can't believe the AI beelined for that. I decide to continue on theology anyway. We can at least get some trade value out of finishing it. The AI's already have the other techs we can work on anyway. Settler built in Berlin -> settler. I'm sending the settler up to the NW to get the whale and the game I guess and the horse after a couple expansions. If the next leader thinks there's a better spot then feel free to change his course. We still have that coastal city to build SW of berlin as well but no hurry on that. There's also land jutting out of the fog south of us that can be settled if we build a galley, but then we need a coastal city for that. The barb town would work once we capture it. Mao is still sending warriors at the thing...I thought the AIs were smarter now?

(10) 450BC - Hatty wants iron for fish. Uhm, no thanks. Note, you don't get a rep hit if they offer a trade and you reject, only if they want a gift. Well we're out of cash, research down to 70%, theology in 8. This tech pace is rough. I'm sure it will get better when our cities are built up, though.

end turn - You can probably take barb town with 3 swords. You could risk it with that (bring an archer as well in case he's needed to clean up a low hp defender) or bring 4 swords to be safe. Swords will lose to archers sometimes. At least it's not a hill town. You'll want it to be size 2 before you take it so it's not destroyed, but I imagine it will be size 2 very shortly. Cologne is a slow starter; it needs a lot of irrigation and mines. Irrigate all around it because it's going to need the food to work the 6 hills and 2 plains forests tiles. Oh I just realized I didn't pick a new government. We're going to want representation I think.

Got it, will most likely play tomorrow as I'm up in another game too.

I'm gona need a skip, sorry for that.

OK

grahamiam UP
Rince On Deck

ok, got it. we ok with going for representation?

Definately, that is the big advantage of the pyramids as well as the fact that we'll get an early industrious leader.:)

Preflight check: Revolt to Representation and Slavery. I see a settler and archer are on automove

T1: 425BC moving settler N

T2: 400BC

T3: 375BC China offers Fish for Iron, take it. Munich sword -> sword


IBT:

T4: 350BC Hamburg sword -> sword

T5: 325BC Found Frankfurt -> oblisk

T6: 300BC Berlin settler -> barracks; I move the settler to the S of Berlin as the barb city is now up to pop 2. Swords need more time to reach the target.

T7: 275BC We are now Buddist thanks to Egypts missionaries; Hamburg sword -> Lib
Switch Berlin to Buddist Monastary

T8: 250BC Munich Sword -> Lib; Found Essen -> Lighthouse

T9: 225BC Theology -> Math (for stone wonders I guess, plus it’s not too slow)
Taoism founded in a distant land.

IBT: Swordsman defends against archer near barb town (4.9/6) Cleo offers Math for Theology, but I hold off for now.

T10: 200BC Moving. 3 Swords still enroute. Sorry, but the lack of roads held up the 1st 2 quite severely. Cross-empire road is now complete so we can move a little better (though I’m still improving it around Munich). Also, I’m roading up to the Northern whaling town (a protective warrior is moving S to cover the workers)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/grahamiam/MM8-200BC.jpg

Ok, i got it. Will play it tonight CET.

Rince

Wow Egypt converted 4 of our cities at once? That's awesome.

Think about building a galley in Essen to grab that land to the south. But even without it 7 cities (once we take barb town) is pretty good.

what good is a fishing town right now? it'll take a long time to build a lighthouse and make it viable, and we're already hurting research-wise. imho, get the infrastructure up in the 7 towns before worrying about that fishing island.

Why havent we grabbed a FP city. With those tiles all irrigated it will be a GP factory which we will need. Note: I'm out of town till the 16th so skip me if I come up.

where would you like the FP city? I'm not exactly sure of it's best placement in CIV yet :blush:

The manual says it lowers the maintenance costs of nearby cities, so presumably we need a spot which will cover the most cities. No clear candidate as far as I can see. We need 8 cities for the FP btw.

Moreover, if we go cultural, ideally we want 9 cities at least so we can build a synagogue/cathedral/mandir in each cities ( all require 3 of their underlying temples to have been built). The third level religious buildings are crucial to culture. I've been spending the last few evenings trying to get a culture win on prince, and it's seriously tough. I would have won one attempt if the city I'd been trying to get to produce a great artist hadn't popped out a scientist instead, which meant it didn't get to legendary before I lost to space. The other attempt is degenerating into a moden war to stop the AIs from launching too. We better hope AIs will send out enough missionaries to gain us more religious buildings to build.

Oh sorry I meant flood plains city. Forbidden palace requires 8 cities and 6 courthouses I think it would come much later. I mean the flood plains next to Berlin could be irrigated and give us a city that could run many specialists to take andvantage of our philosophical trait.

So here are my turns:

T1: nothing happens
T2: Berlin: monastery --> barracks
T3: nothing happens
T4: Hatty wants Alphabet for Mathematics. No good deal for us since we are researching Math. We have 2 Archers and 3 Swordsman at the barbarian town now which is still defended by 3 Archers. Odds are 6 vs 5.5 if we attack with a swordsman. Good enough? I hope so.

Swordsman attacks, kills 1 archer but almost dies.

Odds are now 6 vs 4.9 (why?), we attack, he loses.

Last Sworsdman attacks, Kassite is ours!

Set science back to 70% (had to put it to 60% because we were bankrupt) since we have 93 gold now.

T5: Munich Library --> Settler (for flood plains east of berlin)
T6: Berlin Barracks --> Buddhist Temple
T7: Louis wants Alphabet for Horseback riding, i decline.
We have Mathematics now. Set research to Literature, due in 4.
Hamburg library --> barracks.
Revolt in Kassite has ended, setting production to Library.
Scouting warrior to the north discovers barbarian ship.

T8: Zzz.
T9: Cyrus wants us to cancel deals with the french. I give in to the demand.
Frankurt Obelisk --> Work boat.
Imhotep (great engineer) born in Munich!
T10: Cesar demands Theology for nothing? Can't agree to that.

ressource map:

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg6.jpg

empire map:

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg7.jpg

Munich will have finished the settler next turn. I think the flood plain spot east of berlin is the best one at the moment since it has huge food output and fits nicely into our empire. I alredy sent a worker near there to start working on farms.

Ok, hope i didn't do to many stupid things.

103238

We should seriously consider one of those stone wonders that Math allows us to build. The Lit wonders require Marble, and I don't think we'll beat the AI to those.
What do we want to do with the Great Engineer?

Berlin is our best production city. The temple is done in 2 turns so we could build a wonder there next.

jameson is up next, btw.

Rince

Got it. Perhaps it's a good idea to grab one of the marble wonders with the engineer since we'll find it hard to compete for them otherwise ?

The Parthenon would be useful for us if it hasn't been built yet.

I have to go through and look at the various wonders for cultural. We certainly need all of the religious stuff we can. If any religions are left we should try to snag them. Since we are philo we should try to get to the pacifist and cast system civics and then have the flood plains city set to lots of artists. Artists and engineers for wonders are important. Also can we get to drama and music. (music 1st gets a free artist). We need to begin deciding on the 3 cities and get the appropriate distribution of culture doubling/increasing wonders.

Berlin, München and Hamburg should probably be our culture cities; they're the most built up and have two religions in them so we can get those buildings out of the way earlier. They should be all culture, all the time with military and settlers coming from the other cities.

I'll definitely go for a floodplains city with the next settler, what I'd like input in is an idea I have for placing it off the river, which should redeem an FP tile for extra food at the expense of trade

I think up by the rice/horses has more room/better tiles for a city than over by the flood plains. Sure flood plains are nice but those are about the only tiles the city will have to itself. If not up by the horses my second choice would be using a galley and settling south of Kassite. But up to you guys.

Inherited turn: no changes

75 AD (1) Munich finishes settler, Imhotep hurries the Parthenon ! The settler goes towards the Eastern floodplans, an archer near Kassite is deputed to serve as a garrison in that spot. Literature comes in, research set to drama. I don't much fancy our chances of getting to Music first, and theatres will be highly useful (particularly those of the globe variety).

I agree with Shillen that the Northwestern horse/ rice spot is better, but it seems to me we're more at a risk of losing the FP city to the French. I'll get one more settler done to grab the horses too.

Hamburg is my choice for the Great Library, Berlin will build what should be our final settler for now after its temple completes.

100 AD (2) Munich completes Parthenon, I have it build an archer which will get rice/horse city protected. Worker from Kassite roads towards FP spot.

125 AD (3) Munich archer - Buddhist monastery. Taoism spreads to our lands !

Warriors explore, workers work.


150 AD (4) Dortmund is founded, we're now at -14 gold at 70% science. It's an investment we're making here, yeah, that's the ticket :D.
Here's Dortmund:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/mm8_dortmund.JPG

As you can see, it will grab 5 floodplains spot and a set of bananas for a food bonanza.

We won't get much out of Theology by just holding on to it, so I get Calendar from it from Cyrus and Construction from Hatshepsut. Louis won't trade with us, and we have a few spare swords around. Could be a plan to beat his techs (monarchy and horseback riding) out of him by force ? Swords get sent to Dortmund.

175 AD (5) Not much

200 AD (6) Frankfurt work boat -> lighthouse.

225 AD (7) Judaism spreads to Dortmund. @ great people get born in faraway lands. Munich finishes granary, starts the national epic. Science now to 60% to stop the haemorrhaging (sp?) of money.

Work boat at Frankfurt finds it cannot actually do anything yet until optics :ack:.

Exploring warriors get disbanded because we're losing cash to unit support now too.

250 AD (8) Science now to 50%. Berlin completes settler, starts axeman.

275 AD (9) Sell a spare ivory to Cyrus for 2gpt to stop us from having to lower science yet again. I'm also sorely tempted to sell literature around for the 350-odd gold that's on the table since we cannot use it as leverage in tech trades anymore and we could raise science again. Better wait until drama appears though (and we don't want to wipe out our already slim chances of building the great library).

300 AD (10) Drama comes in, sell it and literature to Cyrus for Currency and 80 gold.

Currency is worth 8gpt for us. Drama and 80 gold to Hatty for Monarchy.

There's about 550- 600 total gold on the table from three different civs for literature; we could probably turn around and pick up horseback riding with that, though it's not a crucial tech for us at this point yet. Alternatively, we could use it to fund deficit research towards music, which is now due in 12 at 60% science (though at this point, no beakers have as yet been invested). I haven't done the trades yet, so it's still up for discussion.

Diplomatically, Cyrus and Hatshepsut like us, the others not so much. Louis should go ( we need a few units more to grab some cities from us, also he's informed us he's built a horse archer which could be painful).

Proposed new city spot (settler on its way 1 tile south of Hamburg, but it's not on goto) :

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/mm8_newcity2.JPG

And the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/mm8_AD-0300.Civ4SavedGame).

Mark is out of town so Shillen is up next.
BTW, we don't have a state religion yet; our three major cities are all Buddhist so could benefit from the added production, though they won't generate the culture from other religions anymore then. Given that religion by itself doesn't actually produce all that much culture for us yet that's probably a small price to pay for wonder competitiveness.

Don't we want the national epic in our high food/great person city? I think that's about the only wonder I wouldn't build in our 3 main cities. Munich is also low on food and it will be very hard to hire specialists there.

As a sidenote: I think we are now able to make a plantation on the bananas near Kassite.

The reason I started building it in Munich is it's the only city we have which is already pumping out the GP points on account of the wonders we built there so we benefit that much sooner. It will take a great deal of time for the FP city to pump out as many points as Munich does.

Feel free to veto though, naturally :).

I got it. I will play either tonight or tomorrow night.

pre-turn: Our land is seriously underdeveloped. We only have 4 workers and soon to be 10 cities.

Why are we building axemen? Are we going to war?

I divert the swordsmen going to Dortmund and send him to Essen which is undefended. I send the settler towards the suggested city location with the archer fortified there.

I don't want to sell literature as I'm really afraid we'll be beat to the great library. 18 more turns is a long time to wait for it. Passing up 600 gold on the table when we only have 1g and are running 60% science is hard to do, though. We're already way behind in techs, we don't want to fall farther behind. I'll do it. Even if we get beat to the great library it will give us a bunch of cash to compensate us which would help us catch up in tech anyway. Ok we now have 631g. Horseback riding would cost us 610g and it's not a very useful tech until we have knights or cavalry anyway. Set science to 100%, music in 6 turns at -35gpt.

Another thing to note is that we need to get religion spread around, build temples, theatres, etc. We can't spend all our time trying to get all the wonders. Religion is going to net more culture than wonders will anyway.

Little early to build a lighthouse in Essen. If we chop down a couple jungles it wouldn't need to work any coast tiles for a while. I'm going to let it hit size 3 (in 1 turn) then build a worker. It can finish the lighthouse later. I also switch Cologne to a worker. We have no pressing need for a barracks (I know it was started it ages ago when it was first build hehe). It can be finished later. The city needs terrain development badly. I switch Kassite to a granary instead of library. The sooner we get that city grown up the sooner we can hire specialists.

(1) 325AD - Berlin axeman->granary. 4 turns to build granary and 4 turns to growth. It will build a worker or two once it's done with the granary. Axeman gets a combat promotion and fortifies.

(2) 350AD - Hmm French borders expanded into first ring of the soon to be new city site. Caesar learned Feudalism.

(3) 375AD - Interesting. I just noticed that our camp on the elephant didn't remove the jungle. So we still need to chop that tile.

IBT: China demands Drama from us. I give in to him.

(4) 400AD - Stuttgart is founded. The french border is still first ring. Set to build temple. Hatty learned Compass and is willing to trade Code of Laws.

(5) 425AD - Berlin granary->worker. Frankfurt lighthouse->worker.

(6) 450AD - We learn music. Set to Paper in 7 turns. Homer is born in Berlin (for discovering Music first). Hmm do we merge him or save him and culture bomb later? It's quite possible by merging him now he'd generate 4000 culture before the end of the game, esp once we get +50% culture generation buildings. He also generates 3 gold and 3 beakers per turn which is pretty damn nice. I think it's worth merging him this early in the game. I will merge him in Hamburg because I think that will be the slowest culture city of the three. Trade Music to Hatty for Metal Casting and 275g. Music and 40g to Cyrus for Code of Laws and HBR. I know it sucks to give up our new tech right away and it probably prevents us from getting Notre Dame but I really think we needed the cash and to get some of the techs we're missing.

(7) 475AD - Just checking out the AI relations. Louis XIV is not very well liked we should avoid trading with him if possible. Hatty and Mao don't like each other either.

IBT: Hatty wants us to cancel our deals with Mao. We're giving him iron for fish. I remember rejecting Mao's offer of that before. Now it's biting us in the ass because I'd rather piss off Mao than Hatty so I accept the deal cancellage.

(8) 500AD - Cologne finishes worker starts on forge. Blah cancelling the deals also cancels open borders, which gets our work boat stuck in a little strip of Persian territory surrounded by Chinese territory. That's lame. We may want to go to war with China at some point. The two cities bordering us are defended by a spearman + archer in one city and just an archer in the other city. They'd be pretty ripe for the picking and the rest of Mao's cities aren't that close to us. But probably not worth it right now as we can't afford to start building more military. Hell we might even flip those two cities once Hamburg gets going on culture.

(9) 520AD - Berlin worker->theatre. Thespis (Great Artist) is born in Munich. Going to merge him in Hamburg also.

(10) 540AD - Frankfurt worker->granary. Hatty is willing to trade Feudalism now, of course we have nothing to give her. We can get sugar out of Cyrus and gems out of Hatty. I trade rice to Cyrus for sugar. We don't need the happiness at the moment but we had extra rice and it will improve relations.

end turn - Overall I think we're in really good shape. First in score. Our cities are slow getting them developed since we expanded so much and haven't improved the land enough but we'll kick into full gear very soon. Buddhist temples are needed once the great library and national epic are complete. Then one of the cities can build the buddhist cathedral. We also need monasteries in our judaism and taoism cities to spread those around. Those two cities are undeveloped, unfortunately. Maybe switching to organized religion/buddhism wouldn't be a bad idea?

Got it, play later today.

580AD
discover paper->education
Berlin Theatre->Notre Dame
600AD
Stutgart theatre->worker
620AD
Get compas, WM and 10 gold for paper from Hatshepsut
680AD
Hamburg Great Lib->theatre
Munich National Epic->theatre
Frankfurt granary->worker
720AD
Hamburg theatre->Chichen Itza
Munich theatre->Buddist Monastary
Frankfurt worker->theatre

103617

grahamiam - UP
Rince - on deck
jameson - in the hole

sorry, thanks for the roster :)

Preflight check: Ok, Hamburg, Berlin, and Munich are the big 3. Turn the Scientist in Berlin to a priest, hoping we can get a Great Prophet instead of a Great Scientist, not sure how it'll work out but we could use the extra 4000 culture.
Currently 4T from Education, going for Liberalism? If so, we need Philosophy also. Mao is the only one who has Philosophy, but when I call him up, he tells me to leave him alone. Apparently, we hurt his feelings by canceling all trades with him.
Turn down research to 90% so we don't lose so much money, Edu still in 4T.
We are really light in regards to military, and I see 3 French horse archers + a cat on our border. Hope he doesn't declare.

IBT: France (Louis) declares war on us. Seems like rejecting military defenses that were being built was not as wise as we thought :(
Essen Lighthouse -> Library
Stutgard worker -> archer

T1: 760AD Louis is invading with horseman near Dortmund (3 horses, 1 cat), so I switch Berlin to a spear. Leave Dortmund on Lib as it's very shield poor and can't build a spear in less than 12 turns.
Look around and it seems that Berlin and Hamburg have barracks, but no other towns have it, crap. Leave Hamburg on Chichen Itzen, but switch Munich from Monastary to spear, and MM for shields.
Move sword out of Essen towards Berlin. No roads down here yet so the going is slow.

IBT: Dortman gets bombarded by the cat, losing 17%

T2: 780AD manuvering.

IBT: @Dortman: Sword defends against horse archer (5.3/6), but defenses of city are removed by cat. However, only 2 horses left now.
Horse Archer pillages iron mine near Berlin

Frankfort: Theater -> axe

T3: 800AD @ Berlin: Axe dies vs horse archer, but severly damages it (1.2/6). Use a warrior to destroy it (2/2)
@ Dortman: Sword kills horse archer (4.8/6); Sword kills horse archer (4.8/6); 5.6 sword destroys cat (1.3/6)
Whip the Archer in Stuttgart, as there's a horse archer in range. Not sure if this is soon enough.
French will land an archer and cat near Kassite next turn. I think they'll capture the worker on the lux, but not sure.

IBT: Luckily, the horse archer near Stuttgart goes N.
Education -> Liberlism, via Philosophy
Stuttgart archer -> spear
Munich spear -> Axe
Berlin spear -> Elephant

T4: 820AD Moving units SE to take care of the landing.
Sell Egypt WM for 10g
We could get her to go to war with Louis for Education, or we could get Fuedalism, but I don't like either deal.

IBT: kassites defenses down 17% by cat attack. also, nearby farm is pillaged.
Lose an archer near Stuttgart

IBT: Egypt asks for Education, but I refuse, she becomes cautious. Should have traded it last turn :(
Frankfurt Axe -> barracks

T5: 840AD moving

T6: 860AD Near Frakfurt: Axeman dies to horsearcher (0.2/6); Archer kills it off (3/3)
Near Kassite: 5.4 Sword kills archer (5.4/6)
Near Dortmund: Sword kills spear (3.1/6)

IBT: Dortmund Lib -> spear

T7: 880AD I whip the spear in Dortmund as there's 5 horse archers, a cat, and a spear coming at the town next turn.
Also, looks like Mao might land 2 horse archers next turn :(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/grahamiam/MM8-880AD.jpg

IBT: Kill 2 horse archers at Dortmund, China (Mao) Declares war.
Berlin War Elephant -> Spear
Dortmund spear -> spear

T8: 900AD Near Berlin: WE kills HA (6.9/8)
Near Kassite: Sword kills HA (2.9/6)
Crap, looks like I really screwed our rep up. Now Egypt won't join vs France or China for anything :( Sell Education to Egypt for Machinery, WM, 10g. She's now pleased, but we don't have anything good enough to bribe her to war. Maybe in 4T when Philosophy is done?

IBT: Lose a spearman and sword @ Dortmund, but kill 2 horse archers. Chinese horse archers pillage instead of trying to take the town.


T9: 920AD Spearman kills Chinese Horsearcher near Frankfurt (1.3/4)

IBT: Lots of action @ Kassite and Dortmund
@ Kassite: Archer dies against cat
@ Dortmund: everything is dinged but only lose 1 spear

Kassite Lib -> market
Dortmund spear -> spear
Stuttgart spear -> spear
Munich spear -> spear
Heron (Great Engineer) born in Munich

T10: 940AD @ Kassate: Archer kills cat.
@ Munich: Spear kills Horse Archer (1.8/4)
@ Dortmund: Not sure what to do. Everyone is hurt on both sides, but I believe that France holds the upperhand due to the cats. However, if I attack, we will lose at least 1 defender, which is not good. Hmm, promote a sword due to XP's, and his health jumps from 2.6 to 4.6. I happened to give him Formation, and now the odds of killing are pretty good. So, attack with 4.3 sword and kill horse archer (3.4/6); 3.6 Sword kills other damaged horse archer (2.6/6). Ok, now all that's left is a cat and spear, but we're too beatup to take them both down. Well, maybe not as I look and look at the numbers, decide to take a chance and attack (2.9 vs 2.3). We win, 1.3/4. All that's left is a 1.0 cat. Warrior kills it. Whew!

Leave our Great Engineer Heron in Munich, unmoved. Right now, the wonders available for rushing are:
Hanging Gardens
Chichen Itza (due in 4t in Hamburg)
Notre Dame (due in 17t in Berlin, but that town is making units atm)
Sistine Chaple

We really need to get some of the other towns (other than the big 3) making units. Hopefully, we can get those towns up to speed and not forget about military in the future.

edit: We can sign peace with France for a good chunk of gold (170g). We should do it and move everything we can to the West as Mao has a ton of LB's poised to strike us from the West. We can also upgrade a couple of Archers to crossbows if desired.

Phew, great job at defending against that surprise attack and keeping the empire intact too :goodjob:. The CIV AI seems much more aggressive at attacking you when you're weak militarily, and particularly when you encroach upon their borders. So, um , sorry :D.

Omg, what a game to inherit. Hope i can hold up as bravely as you did, grahamian.

Will play it tonight, CET. Advice and ideas welcome.

Rince

we need to decide on the wonder we want to rush, and in which city. sorry, no access to the save but I believe it should be rushed in Munich or Berlin, letting Hamburg finish Chichen Itzen

Roster
mark1031 (out till Nov 16th)
Shillen
Nerovats
grahamiam
Rince -> UP and posted a got it already :)
jameson -> on deck

Good work on the defense. I'm at work so I can't check the save either.

Definitely rush Sistine. +2 culture for each specialist in all cities and double production with marble which we don't have.

I'm not sure why we were building chichen itza anyway. We really shouldn't be trying to get every wonder possible. I'd rather be spreading religion around for temples/monasteries/cathedrals.

We should probably sue for peace with France as soon as they're willing. I find when the AI declares war on you, beating them off and then going on the offensive just takes way too long and the war weariness sets in, not to mention the AI is prepared for you as they've probably been making mostly units for a while now. Just give them a tech for peace or whatever the price is. We can pay them back later in the game maybe.

they will pay us 170g for peace. I agree with this, as we are also at war with China from the West and we can't hold 2 fronts with our current military.

Well that's what I get for not reading carefully (hey I'm supposed to be working :P). I somehow missed entirely that China declared on us also and that you had already suggested suing for peace with France. I'm surprised he's willing to pay us for peace, though, as the AI usually isn't willing to pay you unless you threaten their cities, even if you have a better kill ratio.

I'd have to look at the save to see the situation with China. I know on my turn they had almost no defense in their two nearer cities, but I'm guessing that's not the case anymore. It might be a good idea to sue for peace with both. China might even give us a better peace deal if we get France out of it first.

china won't talk.

China's cities to our west have a stack of LB's, some cats (1 or 2) and a horse chariot. They also have a horse archer running around, pillaging improvements. Not much, but all we have is an archer, an axeman, and a couple of spears. by signing peace, we can move more units to the West, maybe even sacking the Chinese cities on our continent or, probably better, drawing Egypt or Greece into the war.

Spears will work just fine against horse archers ( I had to check the manual for this) since they are classified as mounted so the spears get a 100% bonus against them. This applies when attacking them with spears too (which is a bit silly, imho) !
We should probably try and entice the archers to attack instead of attacking them, since other than the anti-archery promotion there is no unit type which gets an advantage against them and this way they at least do not get a first strike.

Hanging Gardens would be a worthwhile build ( +1 pop and +1 health in all cities) but I agree with hurrying Sistine. Alternatively, we could save up the great engineer for Taj Mahal, which we will get access to fairly soon and also benefits from the marble we don't have.

yeah, the spears did the job well against the horses. However, LB's and archers don't do so well vs horse archers as they are immune to 1st strikes. So, if we want to attack the cities, we'll need some cats and to get the horses online. Some horses will be good anyways as they're more mobile than what we currently have.

I'm fine with rushing Sistine's :)

OK, played the first 5 turns. Have to go to sleep now.

How are the rules? Can I:

1. Post my results so far and continue later.
2. Keep my results for me and continue later.
3. Post my results and give the game to the next player.

Greetings,

Rince

1 and 2 are both fine by me, I don't mind 3 but unless you're so pressed for time that you can't complete the remainder feel free to finish your set :).

Or, you can give us hints and leave us guessing for 24hrs :D

Ok, I decided to give you the results, take a seat and try to breathe normally:

Here we go:

In general: Workers are very busy reconstructing our Empire since the war really leaves a trail of destruction.

T1:
After checking our current situation I decide to immediately sign a peace treaty with the French. They give us 200 gold, nice!

To improve our relations with them I give them rice for clams.


T2:
We finish research on Philosophy, i go for Liberalism next.

I try to attack the chinese horse archer near Stuttgart with a spear, but we loose. A second spear takes revenge immediately and defeats the horse archer. Workers move in to reconnect our cities and get access to the ressources back.

Another chinese horse archer appears to the west. I try to move as many units as possible to the west which is not easy since we don't have many and they are moving slowly.

Berlin completes spearman but can't build the Sistine Chapel :confused:. Going through the log shows that the Malinese completed it already a turn before.
I decide to start work on Angkor Wat due in 21, i don't want to rush it with an engineer since it's not a marble wonder.


T3:
Two horse archer approach Hamburg which is only defended by an archer! They destroy farms.

Meanwhile, Cologne completes a forge. Start barracks.

T4: Terrible news: Hamburg was captured by a chinese horse archer :sad:.

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg8.jpg

I counterattack right away and kill a fresh horse archer. Only the original city raiding horse archer remains.

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg9.jpg

The situation for recapturing looks good atm but i don't have moves left.

A chinese warrior appears out of french territory. He forces me to retreat our workers.

Cologne barracks --> Spear.

T5:
What i feared happened: Hamburg was reinforced by two fresh horse archers. Odds are about equal now:

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg10.jpg

I attack anyway since the odds are only for the first attack. The third horse archer wont't stand a chance once we kill the other two.

First attack: 3.3 vs 3.0 --> we loose
Second attack 3.2 vs 3.1 --> we win
Third attack 3.4 vs 3.1 --> we win

I think we were quite lucky there. The situation now looks like this:

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg11.jpg

Munich finishes a Buddhist Monastery --> Buddhist temple.

That's it so far. I will play the remaining turns in a few hours.

The loss of Hamburg is really not nice but i couldn't avoid it because the units were still arranged to defend against the french. Mao still refuses to talk btw.

Greetings,

Rince

I should have switched hamburg to a spear and pop rushed before I handed off. sorry :sad:

edit: why is Munich building culture when we need more units?

I chose a cultural building since other cities are already producing units and since we will try to get peace from china asap, probably before munich can build a military unit.

I can change production though if you guys think it's wiser.

Rince

Munich is closer to the lines, so I think it should be units.

Hamburg was building a wonder, yes? Do you lose all production on the wonder when it gets captured and recaptured? I assume the library and theatre are gone as well? What about the merged great artists we had in there?

And why did Hamburg only have an archer? It's right on the border with China. I know they were attacking other cities at first but it really should have had at least 2 and probably 3 units protecting it. :/

Also, we finished research on philosophy. Were there no tech trades that could be made? Feudalism or Engineering would be nice about now.

And why did Hamburg only have an archer? It's right on the border with China. I know they were attacking other cities at first but it really should have had at least 2 and probably 3 units protecting it. :/

I left it with only an archer. I should have poprushed a spear before handing off (as I noted above), however, I usually don't like to do stuff like that on turn 10. I thought the warning at the end of my turns was enough to get the message thru and to move the axeman from Munich over to Hamburg but it wasn't, sorry :(

I am back. Ouch the loss of Hamburg is tough. I think we should wait on culture for a while and get a military up, take back hamburg and make peace. The AI is no puch over in civIV and they can smell weakness. Will have to reassess culture after the retake.

I left it with only an archer. I should have poprushed a spear before handing off (as I noted above), however, I usually don't like to do stuff like that on turn 10. I thought the warning at the end of my turns was enough to get the message thru and to move the axeman from Munich over to Hamburg but it wasn't, sorry :(

Of course i realized that we need defenses in the west. We simply had too many units in the east. It took them very long to get to hamburg. Moving the axeman from Munich would have left Munich itself undefended.

As i said, i think you held up great against the attacks. I think the loss of Hamburg is the result of our small army having to fight in a two front war.

Anyway, here comes the rest:

T6: Luckily, the already badly wounded enemy archer in Hamburg doesn't get reinforced this time! I promote both spears outside the city with "city raider" and attack. The first one already takes out the occupant and we regain the city :D.

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg15.jpg

As you can see, the Great Library is still here and so are the specialists:

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg14.jpg

I set production to walls.

The enemy warrior deep in our empire gets killed by a war elephant.

Frankfurt: Barracks --> Crossbow.

T7: Mao lands 4 horse archers near Frankfurt! Another one appears near Hamburg.

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg13.jpg

I don't attack them. Worst they can do is destroy our cow farm.

T8: He attacks with the horse archers. They all die quickly thanks to our spears. One of our brave units dies though.

Mao now finally wants to talk. I offer a peace treaty and he is willing to pay 20 gold for it! Deal!

Stuttgart: Spear --> Spear.


T9: We (re)gain access to horses. Hamburg finishes it's walls and starts work on barracks.

T10: Hamburg in now well defended, 4 Spearmen and 1 War Elephant.

Munich: monastery --> market
Essen: library --> galley
Berlin: angkor wat is due in 9.

I tried several times to make some deals with Philosophy but nobody made a good offer like Engineering for example.

Some stats:

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg16.jpg

Our empire:

http://pozor.ch/sg/sg12.jpg


Glad to give the game over to jameson:

mark1031 --> on deck
Shillen
Nerovats
grahamiam
Rince
jameson --> up next

Greetings,

Rince

I see it; will most likely not be able to play before Saturday evening though so if Mark wants to pick it up first I wouldn't mind a swap.

Good job on fighting off the Chinese :). Regardless of us being at peace now, it's probably a good idea to build up our military a bit more right now. Hopes of Hamburg getting to legendary culture status seems well and truly shot now anyway after the surprise attack.

We can wait as I have 3 other games I'm up in as well as RL catching up.

In that case, I got it :).

The great artists are gone. We had two of them merged in the city. :(

Of course i realized that we need defenses in the west. We simply had too many units in the east. It took them very long to get to hamburg. Moving the axeman from Munich would have left Munich itself undefended.
well, this is a learning experience for all of us, i'm sure, so take this for what it is. imho, we definitely should have stopped building C.I., switched to a spear, and pop rushed it. It would only have delayed the wonder by 1 turn. Munich was well behind the lines and the axe could have moved over as
well. The defense of Frankfurt during your turns (2 archers and 1 spear vs 4 HA's) shows how well spears do against horse archers and how much they could have helped. Also, (and I'm not trying to rub it in here, just trying to disect the situation so we all can learn :) ) we should have upgraded the archer to a crossbow (str 3 vs str6)

With 3 defenders, China would probably not attack Hamburg, but instead try to bypass and go to Munich, thus running into our other units coming from the east as well as any units Munich had built (instead of finishing a monastary). Tactically, this could have been prevented, even with the small amount of troops.

I agree that i most probably could have prevented Hamburg from being captured. But in hindsight it's always easy to say what should have been done.

Upgrading is difficult since we are very low on cash.

Rince

Yeah learning experience. Just I agree with grahamiam that it could have been prevented. Not blaming you or anything it's just you make it out like it was just something that couldn't be stopped, when I don't believe that's true. It's alright, we're still in good shape to pull out a win. Should we decide whether to scrap going for culture victory or what? Culture would be very difficult at this point, IMO. But winning through military or space race wouldn't be too hard.

culture almost seems impossible at this point, but i really have no experience with it so I can't say for sure.

Honestly I don't know. I've played one prince game to a culture victory but it was a while ago and I didn't really do it right. For instance I didn't even use multiple religions (just the one I founded) and it was mostly wonder building. Also I did turn the culture slider way up but I didn't even think to build cottages all over and max commerce, most of them were high production for wonder building so the culture slider didn't even do much. So I honestly don't know how much easier it would have been had I used those two things. Of course this game doesn't really lend itself to those strategies anyway. 1) We were late getting a religion. 2) Our cities are not high food cities and therefore building cottages all over probably won't work very well. Hamburg especially has a food problem. It would need more farms than cottages.

I wouldn't mind sticking to our guns and staying with culture and trying to stick it through. It would be a good challenge/learning experience but a decent chance of losing as well.

inherited turn:

Trade spices to Hatty for 6gpt, which allows us to raise science to 60% and gain a turn on liberalism.
Trade bananas to cyrus for 4gpt.

Sell Philosophy (which is already known to Hatty) to Persia for Feudalism, WM and 10 gold.
Sell the WM to Louis for 50 gold.
Sell the WM to Caesar for 230 gold.
Gift the WM to Hatty since she won't give us anything for it anyway.

Do some MM'ing in Kassite, Berlin, Munich and Cologne for a further net gain of 3gpt and some gold.

Raise science to 70% for a further gain of one turn on liberalism.

Upgrade a lone archer in Stuttgart to longbow.

1070 AD (1) Hamburg is well-defended now, I figure I can slip in a theatre before the barracks completes.

1080 AD (2) Dortmund spear - theatre.

1090 AD (3) Cologne Buddhist Temple - Theatre. Reminds me that converting would be a good idea for our productivity and Happy peeps. Berlin already celebrates a WLTPrime Minister day !

IT Cyrus comes offering Optics for Paper and 30 gold, which I gladly accept.

1100 AD (4) Workers working.... Work boat moves out for whales next turn.

1110 AD (5) We're first to Liberalism ! I choose Astronomy as the tech since it's the most expensive in beakers.
Also convert to Free Speech, Free Religion and Caste System

Research set to Civil Service which we seem unable to pick up in trade.

Unfortunately, Cyrus and Caesar are now ' afraid we're becoming too advanced' and won't trade with us.
Mao won't talk and Louis has nothing to offer.
I sell Liberalism to Hatshepsut for Engineering, World Map and 50 gold ( she wouldnt part with divine right).

1120 AD (6) We emerge as the freest society on the planet and in the meantime, Hatty has already picked up Astronomy ?

:confused: . I have no idea how that is possible.

IT the Sun King extorts us for Metal Casting. After some consideration, I give in. We're nowhere near a war footing yet.

1130 AD (7) Munich university - aqueduct (required for the Hanging Gardens, which can do us no harm). Frankfurt crossbow - library.

1140 AD (8) Cologne and Stuttgart start Horse archers after finishing a theatre and a barracks respectively.

1150 AD (9) Crossbow from Frankfurt goes to Stuttgart (as yet unpromoted). Dortmund is set to artist specialists (the governor had assigned scientists)

1160 AD (10) Berlin completes:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/mm8_wonder.JPG

Provisionally set to Globe Theatre since it's by far the most food-rich city we have. Feel free to veto if something else seems more pressing, alternatively, use the Great Engineer in Munich (though I prefer to save him).

Generally, wherever specialists are possible artists have been assigned, unfortunately, a few cities have already built up some great scientist points before due to the governor autoselect option.

No trades currently possible. I would consider gifting Cyrus and Caesar with something so they don't feel as backwards, no harm in them discovering Paper. If we're going to war at some point it'll sooner be Mao or Louis with Louis being the prime target. We need lots more infra first though.

Incense isn't hooked up yet, not the highest priority but we can hook up an extra instance for trade purposes.

The galleon in Essen can be used for sending a settler to the one-tile island for fishery goodness.

Civil service will be in next turn, I recommend going for Nationalism and rushing the Taj Mahal with the Great Engineer.

The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/mm8_AD-1160.Civ4SavedGame)

Looks like a solid turn set. :goodjob:

Thanks :). The turnset was still geared to the culture goal, but I'm very much doubtful we can make it. Military builds were just to err on the side of caution - I'm playing a solo prince game where Napoleon just invaded me with 24 units at least with my own, more advanced but smaller army far away having just finished dealing with an Aztec invasion. Kind of like the trick Mao pulled on us, the AI definitely likes to pounce on weaknesses.

roster check

mark1031 - up now
Shillen - on deck
Nerovats
grahamiam
Rince
jameson

Got it......

1160: Change Berlin->forge. Kassite->worker we need more. Essen ->Taoist monastery. I think we can still get culture win and I’d like to try if nothing else we learn something. To do this we need to spread religions we have Taoism and Judaism, this is perfect. For each religion there is one building after you do a temple that makes 50% increase in culture rate (this is huge). We need 1 in each of Hamburg, Muich and Berlin plus a temple and monastery for each.
1170: Hamburg rax->forge. Dortmund theater->Jewish Monastary.

1180: Munich Duct->Hanging gardens

1190:

1200: Kassite worker->worker. Ceaser wants 130gp. Well I thought about it but no. He is no threat and I don’t see him being a big friend.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/hg0000.JPG

1210: Munich Hanging Gardens (helped with several chops)->Forge.

1220 Frankfurt library->harbor (I see this as a research city)

1240: Essen Taoist Monastary->monk.

We really must think this out and focus our efforts. We need one of each of the 50% culture increasing religion buildings in each city. Then all the temples and monasteries. Later we need broadway, Hollywood and rock and roll. Each increase culture 50%. Then broadcast towers for another 50%. We can use great artists as suppliment when we see where we need it if early enough add to city or else take to 4000cp. And we also need engineers the others are not that important I think. Getting the Taj Mahal for a GA with nationalism would be nice. After the forge in Hamburg I would build the Buddist temple then get copper from hattie and build that 50% culture Buddist building.

mark1031 -
Shillen -Up now
Nerovats - on deck
grahamiam
Rince
jameson
__________________

I will be away til the 28th. I still think we should try for culture but remember that means focusing on 3 cities and the rest do military and other duties. Those 3 cities need all 3 religions we have access to as well as one each of the culture increasing religious buildings. We have a great artist in Munich and I think the best use of him might be adding him to Hamburg to up it's culture. In the end I think that would be better than blowing him for 4000 cp. Also, use engineers to rush wonders in Hamburg so it can keep working on the base culture buildings.

Adding the great artist is MUCH better than making him produce a great work this early in the game. With all the culture modifiers he will have pumped out far more than 4000 culture points once we have the 3 cities with legendary status.

Rince

I have it. I'll probably post it up tomorrow.

Pre-turn: Ok I'm seriously disturbed with the state of our cities and land. Why did we build cottages around Kassite? That's a great person city. It needs irrigation all over. What's with the workshop by Munich? It has grassland hills it isn't even working yet. There's no way it's going to use a workshop. We have multiple incense in our territory and none are hooked up. Even if we don't need the happiness those are good for trading purposes. Why are none of the governors on in any of the cities? Essen is size 5 and it's micro-managed to have 1 food surplus? We need that city to grow, it's useless at size 5. It should be about size 10 or 11 right now. I know you want to get taoist missionaries out but if you let it grow it will probably get them out faster. Same thing with Cologne. 1 food surplus is not good enough. Food is more important than production until you hit the happiness or health cap. Why is Kassite building a market? It's producing 6 gold. A market will make that +1 gold. Unless you're doing it for the happiness, but if that's the case it should be building a temple instead. Essen is completely undefended. I'll send a unit or two down there.

We're giving Cyrus ivory for 2gpt and banana for 4gpt. I cancel both of those deals and then trade him banana for 8gpt. I trade cow to Louis for 6gpt. Gold to Caesar for 5gpt. I delete 2 warriors to lower support costs. We actually have quite a few units now.

I change Cologne to build a settler instead. There's an ice village we can have in the north that would pick up both fish and crab, neither of which we have. Kassite has scientists hired. It has 100% chance to produce a great scientist. We want artists, not scientists. I hire 6 artists so it's generating 45 GPP per turn. It can do more if we irrigate around it and let it grow a couple more pop. We also get 4 beakers per artist so it's not going to hurt our research rate at all. Dortmund also had a scientist hired. I'm going to turn this one into a GPP city as well once it gets its religion spread to our other cities.

I'm not sure but if you build 6 buddhist temples can you build 2 stupas? I think you can but I've never actually tried it. If so we should keep building buddhist temples in any city that can.

I'm saving the great artist. I think we've passed the point in the game where merging them would get them more than 4000 culture by the end of the game.

(1) 1260AD - Hamburg forge->buddhist stupa. Dortmund Jewish monastery -> Jewish missionary. Cancel deal with Hatty giving her spices for 4gpt. Trade her spices and our last gold for copper. Probably shouldn't have traded the gold to Caesar for 5gpt. None of our cities are unhappy anyway. We can cancel the gold deal with caesar in 10 turns, unless we're done with the copper.

(2) 1270AD - Nothing much.

(3) 1280AD - We learn Nationalism. Not much choice in techs here. I think biology is the next most useful tech to us but it's several techs away. I set it to biology, which means we're working on printing press. Munich forge->courthouse. Not much of culture to build atm. I set it to emphasize food. A great scientist is born in hamburg. Hatty already has nationalism and none of the other AI's are willing to give us techs. I honestly don't understand how the AI always learns the same tech as you on the same turn. I mean it happens way too often to be a coincidence. Hmm do I have him build an academy in berlin for an extra 20 beakers per turn or have him put 1700 beakers towards printing press. At 20 beakers per turn it would take 85 turns to get 1700 out of him. Considering we're stopping research after mass media or so I don't think it's worth it. I'll take the printing press research now. We're now only 20 beakers short of learning Printing Press.

(4) 1290AD - We learn Printing Press. Gunpowder next. Frankfurt harbor->forge. Dortmund Jewish Missionary->Jewish Missionary. Doh I forgot to rush the Taj Majal last turn. I'm going to do so in Berlin. It's going to be a pretty weak golden age though with how little commerce we're generating.

(5) 1300AD - mm8's golden age has begun! Stuttgart maceman->forge. Essen taoist missionary->taoist missionary. Taoism spreads in Munich. Judaism spreads in Berlin. Munich starts on taoist monastery and queue up Jewish monastery in berlin (1 turn left on aqueduct).

(6) 1310AD - Bleh Great Scientist is born in Kassite. I had worked up the artist chance to 40% but we drew the short end of the stick. From now on it should generate all artists, though. I'll leave him for now. The tech he will put research towards is scientific method.

(7) 1320AD - Hatty wants us to cancel deals with the French. He's currently giving us 6gpt for cow. I accept the deal cancellage because so far Hatty's the only AI cooperating with us and I don't want that to change. Doh he was giving us clam too. I checked the active deals screen and missed that somehow. Hamburg buddhist stupa->library. Cologne settler->granary. Dortmund jewish missionary->aqueduct. Mwahaha I ask Hatty if she can spare clam for a good friend and she accepts!! Mao still won't talk to us, sheesh.

(8) 1330AD - Munich taoist monastery->taoist missionary. Berlin Jewish monastery->jewish missionary. We learn Gunpowder. Hmm Hatty learned it on the same turn again. There's really something fishy going on there. Either it's not listing techs that the AI already has or they're learning the same tech on the same turn all the time. I really don't get it. She also has constitution now. How can she learn both gunpowder and constitution in the same turn? She didn't trade because none of the AI's have constitution. Start research on chemistry which will take 8 turns in our golden age ouch.

(9) 1340AD - Berlin Jewish Missionary->Jewish temple. Missionary successfully spreads Judaism in Hamburg. Missionary successfully spreads Judaism in Munich.

(10) 1350AD - Hamburg library->jewish monastery. Essen taoist missionary->granary. Munich builds taoist missionary. Missionary successfully spreads taoism in Hamburg. Missionary fails to spread taoism in Berlin. Well I had been pretty lucky up to that point. Set munich to build another missionary.

Post-turn: Ok we're still not in great shape with culture but doing better. I hope we have better luck getting great artists in the future instead of other great people. Unfortunately berlin will spit out a prophet most likely during the next turn set. For some reason the game likes to assign priest specialists in that city. I turned the governor off because of that. We just need to get taoism spread to berlin and we'll have 3 religions in each city which is good. I probably should have done taj mahal in hamburg instead of berlin but for some reason I thought berlin was getting less culture per turn than it is. So my mistake there. We can even it off with artist bombs anyway. I still didn't get the incense hooked up either, completely forgot about it. :smoke:

Sorry for the lack of pictures but the turn set took long enough with the alt-tabbing memory leak. I don't like windowed mode. :(

Don't forget to get our gold back from either Hatty or Caesar. I traded our only source. The deal to caesar should be up either this turn or next turn.

See this will probably play tonight.

It does seem like the scientists being assigned is a consequence of letting the governor run things; I had to fire a few myself too.

Re the trade deals, it would be nice if there were an option for autorenegotiation. Generally the AIs at this level have only a few gpt available for trades so bananas for 4gpt was the best we could do when I made that trade with Cyrus.'Which makes it worthwhile to check the trades more often ( though you do get an attitude bonus for 'fair' i.e. lopsided trade deals, but with Cyrus that's not really necessary).

I'm quite sure you can build multiple stupas, the only requirement is that you have 3 temples of the underlying faith.

Finally, the tech advancement thing is something that should be investigated. In my turns, I picked up liberalism and traded it to Hatty. We got Astronomy for free and the very next turn, she got it too. She's powerful but I don't think she's able to generate 2800-odd beakers for that tech in a single turn just yet. Something fishy is definitely going on here.

since I'm after nerovats, I'll try to play right away tonight. however, if I don't post a got it, please skip me as I'll be out of town Thursday and Friday.

We'll looks like I won't play tonight but will tomorrow so if you (grahamiam) see this in time we could swap.

[/delurk]Shillen said:I'm not sure but if you build 6 buddhist temples can you build 2 stupas? I think you can but I've never actually tried it. If so we should keep building buddhist temples in any city that can. That is correct - you may build one "cathedral" level building for every three temples of the same religion. You can build multiple "cathedral" level buildings in the same city as long as they are of different religions. Getting 3"'cathedrals" will add 150% to the rate at which a city accumulates culture.

The Free Speech civic also adds 100% to the culture rate (in addition to increasing town income by +2 g each). So get Liberalism as early as possible for culture wins.

The Sistine Chapel adds +2 culture per Specialist (empire-wide) so is also huge. The Hermitage (National Wonder) increases the rate of culture in that city by 100%.

Adjusting the cuture rate has a big impact also.

I am currently playing a solo game as Louis XIV (Noble) going for a culture win. In the 1800's I am running 60% culture and my 3rd place city is gaining 450 culture per turn. [/lurk]

Thanks for the tips Thyrwyn. We are running free speech at the moment. We haven't built the Hermitage yet though. I imagine Hamburg will probably build that once it's done with the other cheapo culture buildings. We do plan to turn the culture rate way up once we've gotten to mass media for all the +50% culture wonders. Unfortunately we don't have a lot of towns so we won't get a lot of culture that way unless we shift our cities away from production and towards commerce.

We'll looks like I won't play tonight but will tomorrow so if you (grahamiam) see this in time we could swap.
sorry, looks like i ran out of time today. I will be away on Thursday and Friday, so feel free to skip me if needed. Otherwise, I will be back Saturday night.

Hi

Now that the 1.09 patch is out, do we patch our game?

Greetings,

Rince

I've already patched, but haven't tested the patch out yet. I do know I can open old saves just fine.

I'm gona patch mine too as I've got the no hammers bug.:(
Will be needed for the GOTM which should start tomorrow too.

pre-turn
Hit enter
1360AD
Munich -> court
Frankfurt -> court
spread Taoism in Berlin
found Dusseldorf -> lighthouse
1370AD
Hamburg -> Hermitage
Cologne -> lib
Stuttgart -> lib
Munich -> Jewish monastary
1380AD
Berlin -> Taoist monastary
Munich Jewish temple
1390AD
Sell paper to Mao for WM and 180 gold to keep scienc at 70%
1400AD
just working
1410AD
Pop-Up we're the largest civ
Trade fish for pig with Mao
Berlin & Munich -> Taoist temple
1420AD
moving
1430AD
Cyrus wants us stop deals with France, give in and hope they will start trading with us, but didn't work, lost couple of gpt for cow.
Frankfurt -> musket (should upgrade our army a bit especially now AI starts demanding)
Essen -> barracks
1440AD
Munich -> Global Theatre
Stuttgart->grenadeer
Abu Bakr is born (Great Profet) sleep in Berlin, there still is the great sceintist in there as well, should decide on what to do with them, will finish this set a it's just one more turn
1450AD
Berlin -> Heroic Epic

Tried to trade for Divine right every turn but was not able to get it after neglecting to do so the first turn. We need gold, Can sell Chemistry to Hatshepsut for Guild and 680gold, also can get some gold from other civ's but not nearly as much.

Culture is now:
Munich 5727 +132pt
Berlin 3435 +88pt
Hamburg 2368 +50pt will finish Hermitage in 5

105028

I don't have time until Sunday to play so i propose that we stick to the normal roster:

mark1031
Shillen
Nerovats
grahamiam -> up next, Saturday
Rince -> Sunday
jameson

Greetings,

Rince

Fine by me :). I'm patched too now by the way.


We should turn the scientist into an academy as far as I'm concerned, I'm neutral on the prophet. Maybe turn him into a specialist and add to production somewhere ? Alternatively, grab the lion's share of divine right, top that off and hope we spawn an engineer for Versailles next ?

Scientist should definately be the academy in Berlin. Prophet can be saved for a GA with another undesired GP. If we build the GA wonder does it still take only 2 GP for a 2nd GA?? If not maybe we trigger the GA now and use it to build that wonder for an extended 16 turn GA.

From the RB2 threads, it seems you only need two for the first GP-powered GA regardless of whether you built Taj Mahal or not.

hmm, up in both of Mark's games :) will try to fit both in today or tonight

Preflight Check
Berlin finishes: Academy
Build the Academy in Berlin
We don't have any GP's added to Berlin, so I'm a
little suprised we don't want to add him. But, no
problem, will hold on to him for now as suggested.
MM a bit to emphasis production in some of the rax
towns.
Ok, looks like the 3 buddies are Egypt, Persia, and
Rome. The other 2 are on the outs.
Tech learned: Guilds
Sell Chems to Egypt for Guilds, WM, and 680g. Guilds
are required for Banking, which is required for RP
Incense still not hooked up. Will try to do it.
Kassite finishes: Buddhist Temple

Turn 207 (1470 AD)
Hey, we have a GA in Munich. What's he being saved
for?
Well, I decide to run him over to Hamburg and join him
in the city. It goes from +50cpt to +80cpt
Also, upgrade two spears in Hamburg to Pikes for 200g
Tech learned: Scientific Method
Stuttgart grows: 8
Dusseldorf grows: 2

Research goes to Biology, as it was already selected
(not sure why)
Cologne finishes: Library

Turn 208 (1480 AD)
Cologne begins: Musketman
Egypt begins a GA
nada
Munich grows: 14

just worker moves
Hermitage should roll in next turn
Berlin grows: 15
Hamburg finishes: Hermitage
Frankfurt grows: 13
Frankfurt finishes: Musketman
Stuttgart finishes: Grenadier
Hamburg begins: University
Frankfurt begins: Musketman
Stuttgart begins: Grenadier
Hamburg begins: The Hagia Sophia
Hamburg begins: University
I decided to go for the Uni in Hamburg as the Hague
Sofia was probably close to done by an AI.

Li Po (Great Artist) born in Kassite

Turn 212 (1510 AD)
Kassite gives us another Great Artist
Musketman promoted: City Garrison I
Musket arrives in Hamburg, give him the City Defender
Upgrade
Incense will be connected next turn.
Cologne finishes: Musketman

Cologne begins: Grocer
GA joins Berlin
Munich finishes: Globe Theatre
Christianity has spread: Dusseldorf

Munich begins: Grocer
Cologne grows: 11

Musketman promoted: City Garrison I
Persia begins GA
Tweak research down to 50% to save some cash. Bio
still due in 3T.
I'm building a second Incense plantation so we can
trade it around. Also building a direct road from
Berlin to Stuttgart to improve defenses. Oil is
located S of Kassite in the ocean, but we'll need a navy to defend
it.

Berlin: 4442c, +120cpt
Munich: 7059c, +144cpt
Hamburg: 3298c, +112cpt
All 3 types of temples must be built in Hamburg

Note: played in v1.09

Ok, got it. Will play it today.

Rince

Sorry guys. I was laying in bed with a flu and at the same time my computer only starts in safe mode.

I'll try to fix it today, otherwise you'll have to skip me.

Greetings,

Rince

Hi,

I could take the game within an hour or two to keep things moving if you want to swap (tomorrow and Friday aren't all that good for me to play).

OK, go for it!

I can't play for 5 more hours. Let's swap.

Rince

Got it :) (just a quick round to the shops first).

Inherited turn:

Sign Open Borders with Mao to boost relations. Blow 205 gold on a sword to grenadier upgrade in Dortmund seeing as Louis XIV won't even talk to us while at peace. We also have an opportunity to pick up an invaluable native
+2 health everywhere by building some work boats out of Frankfurt next seeing as the icy fishing village of Düsseldorf has access to Crabs and Fish, neither of which are part of our diet at the moment. ( I could do without the crab though :ack: ). Berlin exchanges its priest for an artist.

1530 AD (1) Berlin university-knight (we have to build military somewhere). Hamburg university-granary (a snip at two turns and it will help it to grow again). Essen barracks - catapult, Stuttgart Grenadier - Grenadier. Frankfurt musket - work boat.

This is a round of military-building after which we can get back to peaceful builds again - no obvious choice for infra suggested itself either in these cases. Stuttgart could knock out a Uni in 7 turns, but it hasn't got much more than 5 commerce to work with. Something I realized later in the turns: we should build one anyway to qualify for Oxford.

I don't understand the market in Kassite but it's such a slow producer almost nothing makes sense there. On the bright side, it's Artist Central.

1535 AD (2) ....

1540 AD (3) Mao comes calling for Liberalism, which is way too expensive to give him. He turns annoyed. I appease him by selling newly connected incense for 7gpt ( no other trades currently available for it). Likely trade partners Cyrus and Caesar (who have 4 techs we don't know for our 2 vice versa) don't want to trade those off for fear of our becoming too advanced.

Hamburg granary - temple. It lacks Taoist and Buddhist monasteries