Hi everyone. For the last six months, I've been working on Civ4 as one of the pre-release testers for Firaxis. Let me say, it's been quite entertaining lurking and reading much of the commentary that's been posted here during that time. Some really clever things were written (and some amazingly misinformed stuff too :mischief: ). I was doing well with remaining anonymous until Chieftess had to post some of her MP screenshots last week from one of the games that we were both involved in... (but which team won that game Chieftess? And who had the highest score when we stopped playing? :p)

Civ4 will be out today, and many people will be getting their hands on it soon. To celebrate release week, I've updated my website to include a major Civ4 section and prepared a detailed game report called the Civ4 Walkthrough. This Walkthrough will be a little bit different from what you'll see on review sites, where they try to give the game a score, rank it, etc. Since I'm hopelessly biased when it comes to Civ4, rather than review the game, I'm simply going to play through a typical game and show you what it looks like, illustrating it with commentary and screenshots. I figure that will give everyone a rather different perspective from what they're likely to see anywhere else.

The Walkthrough is divided into 7 parts. One will be posted each day this week, to celebrate the week-long release of Civ4. By the end, I'll have taken you through a complete game of Civ4 right up until the Modern era. This post will be edited as I update the website each day with new parts.

Sulla's Website for Civ4 (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4.html)
Introduction (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4intro.html)
Walkthrough Part One (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_walk_1.html)
Walkthrough Part Two (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_walk_2.html)
Walkthrough Part Three (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_walk_3.html)
Walkthrough Part Four (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_walk_4.html)
Walkthrough Part Five (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_walk_5.html)
Walkthrough Part Six (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_walk_6.html)
Walkthrough Part Seven (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_walk_7.html)

I hope you enjoy reading through it! :)

For those who have finished the Walkthrough and are looking for more Civ4 info stuff, try reading through the Succession Game that Sirian and I are playing through. It will be more than worth your time, I guarantee. :D

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=133492

Latest update (12/08/2006): Updated the links in this post to reflect the Walkthrough's new location at my current hosting.

- Sullla

thanks, wish it had more info on navies and airpower :cool:

Nice site Sullla.

Important question: are there any paratroopers??

thanks dude

THANK YOU SULLA! :) Than you... helps keep us entertained while we wait for our own, and fun to read none-the-less :)

Thanks. Good stuff...

Perhaps this threat should be made a sticky?

thanks, wish it had more info on navies and airpower :cool:

There's not going to be too much on navies and air power in 4000BC, now is there? ;) As I get further in the game, you should see some more things start to develop.

Now to Something completely different... :D
Thank you, Sullla! Very nice way to spent the time!

Thanks for the "review" Sulla, and for working your butt off for us! ;)

Can you tell us what your specs are, what settings your ran on and how it performed?

Very nice read. Filling in a lot of uncertainties. It's a great way to laern civ 4 while us poor europeans wait another week...

Thanks!

Hey Sulla was a beta-tester and has very kindly shared the information he had with us... on his own site! That means he's paying for the bandwith to host the images etc :goodjob:
This is the nearest us UK and Europeans are going to get to Civ4 for ages.... please mods publicise this thread somehow..... please!!!!!!
Even just a link in one of the stickies in the main Civ4 forum.... please!
[/begging mode]

Nice one Sulla!:king: :D

I read it, very nice site thanx, was waiting for this sort of things, would be happy to read more while waiting for the game to come out in europe.

Thanks Sulla, great walkthrough!

Keep them coming, this will help somewhat to alleviate my pain at having to wait for Civ4 to reach me in Germany :cry:

Edit: The Mods must have moved it while I was reading!

Please, this walkthrough is great, link it somewhere prominent! I've already bookmarked it, but others will be just as interested... all us poor b******* in Europe for instance!

wish i could eat this to survive the waiting~

SO what do all those map scripts mean/do? Are there oceans on a great plains world? Can you designate that you want your civ to start on an island in a continent world in 'custom'?

Oh great! :goodjob: Will be fun to see how it develops.

Looking forward to the next chapters.

Get writing some more walkthrough! You only have today for people to read it! Get working!

Nice job Sullla. Thanks for the hard work!

Looks funky. Lost my last post as Padma closed the other thread as I was typing!

I like the way that your starting location is spread a bit more, and the warriors can see 2 squares - makes the chanciness of the start a bit less, as you can see most of your starting location.

nice job. i also agree with JC that most of us North Americans will be too busy playing tomorrow to pay much more attention to the rest of the walkthrough. i'm sure those worldwide waiting for the game will be on the edge of their seat but if you spread it out over 7 days - other people may beat you to it, not that that's bad i guess.

Thx alot for the online tutorial, hope you add more chapters soon :)

It's only 3 pages? It's not done.

That was the most entertaining thing I've read since yesterday. =D

Now upload the rest! please?

That was the most entertaining thing I've read since yesterday. =D

Now upload the rest! please?

i bet some of us would paypal bribe you to finish this up today.

It was very intertaining, almost like playing the game without making our own choices. Just made everyone want it more.

Very well done sir, keep it up.

Thanks, Matrix! You guys are the best. :cool:

Now upload the rest! please?

Sorry, one part per day. What fun would it be if you had the whole story right away? ;) Part Two will be posted at midnight tonight EST, and another part each day after that for the next six days until the seventh and final part on Monday. Much more coming up on religion, wonders, and great people tomorrow. :)

Thanks, Matrix! You guys are the best. :cool:



Sorry, one part per day. What fun would it be if you had the whole story right away? ;) Part Two will be posted at midnight tonight EST, and another part each day after that for the next six days until the seventh and final part on Monday. Much more coming up on religion, wonders, and great people tomorrow. :)

Can you at least tell us a little more about how the different map scripts are supposed to work...? :goodjob:

Sorry, one part per day. :)

I'm just thinking of you Sulla, you put all this work into a wonderful in-depth walkthrough and I read the frist chapter, get the game tomorrow, and never read another word of it because I can play it myself! Hate too see your work not get the appreciateion it deserves, maybe a chapter every 6 hours or something? :) Perty please? I'll mow your lawn!

-drjones

Get writing some more walkthrough! You only have today for people to read it! Get working!
Don't be ungrateful. Sullla worked very hard writing a 7 page, 150+ picture webpage for the community to enjoy. He could have spent that time playing another game. You'll read more when he is ready to show it to you.

Thanks Sullla!

Yeah, once we get the game ourselves we won't stop to read about yours. You're missing the window of opportunity.

...

Please? Please please please?

Yeah, once we get the game ourselves we won't stop to read about yours. You're missing the window of opportunity.

...

Please? Please please please?


Exactly, if you don't get it done by tommorrow no one will care. Cause we will be playing it. I'll check at midnight I guess.

Great work Sulla! But you should upload all of it, because trust me from tomorrow no one will even bother to look at the walkthrough once everyone starts playing, so it would be a nice idea to put everything, unless you want to tease us i.e. the bloody Europeans ;)

"The villagers have provided your unit with experience."

Oh yea... I bet they have, baby. Get down, get funky! :D :D :D


What the heck is the "Fantasy Realm" map script?

Woot, thanks Sullla. Hurry up and get more up, I enjoyed reading it =]

Very nicely done!

I don't mind getting the walkthrough over several days, since I'm european and have to wait for the game anyway, and it will be nice with a daily update to keep me occupied during the long hard days of waiting.

Take your time Sulla! I loved the first part, I look forward to reading more about it. I thought I was one of the worst civ-addicts around, this board has shown me otherwise. I’m on East Coast USA and I won’t get the game until Christmas most likely. I like having something to look forward to!

*pauses looks around the room, notices the awkward silence and the fact that crowd has started to pick up rocks, turns and runs for his life*

Thanks for the write-up Sulla -- much appreciated. Looking forward to additional installments.

Great job, Sullla. I enjoyed your Civ3 writings, and this one is up to your high standards as well. i am looking forward to the rest of the walkthrough. I am sure that it will help me survive my first few games in uncharted territory.

Lions? EEK! :eek:

Thank you Sullla. Would prefer to have the game already, but this is the second best thing. Should keep me busy for the week :)

Great work Sulla! I really like how you explain the details and the decisions you made.

Nice start looking forward to reading the rest!!!

I enjoyed the walkthru first part a novel way to tell people about the game I look forward to reading the rest of it.

I'm board and want something to look forward to now.

Slight quibble. How can you look forward to something if you have it right now? :D

Great work Sulla. I really enjoyed the first part of your walkthrough since it's a view of the game that so far hasn't been seen. Even when I do get Civilization I'll take the time to check up on the other parts as I think you might have a thing or two to teach the rest of us in there. Besides, I'll need something to read when my girlfriend forces me to put down the game for such petty Earthly concerns as food and sleep.

Very nice writeup Sullla!! Great reading for us in Europe as we have to wait until Nov 4th:mad: .

I willlook forward to part 2 in this intresting walkthrough.

:goodjob:

I was just thinking that people were getting a little too crazy about having to wait an extra day and then read your walkthrough and now I'm drooling and everything. The game looks great and I really enjoyed your walkthrough. Of course I want more, but I'll wait without complaint.

The only thing I'll say at this point was I thought the game had been designed so that the pacing would be more even between the early and late game stages, but if it takes 12 turns to build a worker, then there's gonna be a lot of turns eaten for early development expansion with little to do. Obviously, I don't have the whole story so it's not a criticism, just that I was expecting something more like the reverse of this.

Good job, I was very happy with it!

However, I think that it would be a smart move to publish all the guide now, because in 6 days most USA Civers will already have the game. If you don't publish it now, someone will and divert all the attention, IMHO.

Anyway, thanks for sharing.

Is it the final build this game was played on, or one of the beta versions?

In other words did beta testers get an early copy ;-)?

Great piece of work Sullla, the time and effort you've taken is much appreciated! And there are plenty of us outside of North America that can appreciate the rest of your work over the next few days! :)

Release it now, the euros can wait and just a section a day. no need to keep us in the dark.

Nice one and I especially like how you mentioned that the biggest maps are bigger than those in CivIII. That, coupled with the "no razing" option I saw and the huge customisation possible is going to mean that I can finally create a staggering WW2 scenario (if you think my last one was large think about this - towards the end of its life I experimented with fitting the East coast of North America on it). It seems as though they have really listened to us and for that I'm really gratful (especialy if you had input on that decision like it seems that you're hinting). Unfortunatly though I'm not actualy sure when I'll be able to get it as the amount of work I'm doing at uni ATM is probably going to delay things until Christmas. :(

links aren't working for me. not sure why. :/

Great job, Sullla!! I really appreciate your efforts.:goodjob: Looking forward reading more of your walk-through!!

Sullla, great work, thx. I will return .. to read the next chapters. :goodjob:

due to the delay of us getting the game we need the other chapters now! also because after we get the game its not like we'll stop playing and come back to check on the chapters again ;) nice job tho kinda neat to look thru

Release it now, the euros can wait and just a section a day. no need to keep us in the dark.

I don't know why you're so desperate to see the rest of the walkthrough. After all, you claimed earlier to have gotten the game on Sunday :lol:

Thanks for making the walkthrough. It'll stave off the Civ jonesing until tomorrow

Thank you for writing this walkthrough, it is very well written and illustrated. :goodjob:
It is different than the previews because it really takes you into a game of Civ 4. Thank you.

edit: Can you answer questions about the game or is the NDA prohibiting you?

Excellent work Sulla, thanks. :goodjob:


Eagerly awaiting reading your next installment.

NDA should be frickin over with. the game is suppose to be out.

Woot. Nice preview. Probably all I'll have time to do with the new Civ as I'm working my way through Jade Empire for the XBox and only have time for one game at a time with two kids and a family.

Thanks a bunch for it. My wife enjoyed it immensely as well. She's amazed at the differences, as am I.

Woot. Nice preview. Probably all I'll have time to do with the new Civ as I'm working my way through Jade Empire for the XBox and only have time for one game at a time with two kids and a family.

Thanks a bunch for it. My wife enjoyed it immensely as well. She's amazed at the differences, as am I.

What is with all these people with wifes playing? Do nerd marry in droves or something?

wow its way betetr than a plain review its so cool and thank you sulla for the walkthrough

What is with all these people with wifes playing? Do nerd marry in droves or something?


LOL. Someday you'll get a girlfriend, and see just how lucky these guys really are. :D

Thanks Sullla, please bring your installments of this game day after day, as intended ! ;) Thanks to buddy Matrix for putting this back to a larger audience ! :)

Could we now have some nice questions and answers if possible, instead of plenty of newbies always whining when they're given something for free ? Damn, the quality of this forum is getting down. :sad: To those who think it's not worth waiting : all of us in Europe don't have the game yet, and even if we had it, Sullla's writings are worth reading, even in 6 months ! :p

Sullla's writings are worth reading, even in 6 months ! :p
Great post Kryszcztov! This is one of the best Civ3 players in the world taking the time to explore and explain nearly every feature in a game, the day before it comes out, in a 14 page report with 150 pictures, and people are people are questioning the manner in which he provides? :rolleyes:

Anyone who doesn't take the free walkthrough of the game is missing a golden opportunity to drastically improve their game.:smoke: And anyone who doesn't take the walkthrough and then comes into GD posting "is the culture bomb unbalanced?" or "how do cottages work?" or "what is up with the combat?" or "what's the point of religion" deserves to be sent to work at Wal-Mart. God I hate that place.:drool:

I hope you enjoy reading through it! :)

- Sullla

How is Terra different than the original 3 options? Is it all land no water? or is it Earth?

I want the whole thing now!! It's all that can hold me over until tomorrow... but after that those of us in the U.S. in the game won't be as interested.

Thanks to all for your kind words. This is designed to be a gift to the community for helping me out so much when I was first beginning with the Civilization games years ago. And maybe some of you will be able to do the same for others down the road. :)

With regards to questions, I will try to answer some of them, but keep in mind there are many dozens of you and only one of me. Regading the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA), I will happily answer questions about the final version of Civ4, but none about went on during testing. So no questions about "why wasn't feature X included" or "what the heck were you guys doing for all those months", for example.

I understand the impatience of many Civ fans, but we're going to keep the one part per day rule. The Walkthrough is a week-long celebration of Civ4's release - there's no need to rush through it all on the first day. Remember, patience is a virtue. I promise that I've done my best to make each part worth the wait of reading them. :)

Again, next update is tonight at midnight EST.

With regards to questions, I will try to answer some of them, but keep in mind there are many dozens of you and only one of me. Regading the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA), I will happily answer questions about the final version of Civ4, but none about went on during testing. So no questions about "why wasn't feature X included" or "what the heck were you guys doing for all those months", for example.


Can you explain why you moved southWEST instead of south? You would still have had the horses and a water connection, and you could have placed a second city on the coast (grassland forest to the left of the stone) with minimal overlap.

You would also have gotten another horses and an ivory, but you didn't know that.


Again, next update is tonight at midnight EST.

Looking forward to it!

In many ways, this is even more informative than the previews. Everyone will have to found their first city, after all.

Hey, Sulla, I am very, very glad to see your return to Civ,
and just what a fine return it is, indeed! :goodjob:

Great walkthru and good idea (that it's something different from a typical preview and something all of us that HAVEN'T been playing the game for months can drool over).

However...

I understand the impatience of many Civ fans, but we're going to keep the one part per day rule. The Walkthrough is a week-long celebration of Civ4's release - there's no need to rush through it all on the first day. Remember, patience is a virtue. I promise that I've done my best to make each part worth the wait of reading them. :)

...right now your walkthru is something exceptionally special since few people have played the game. By this time tomorrow, it's going to mean a great deal less when a lot of people are playing and living the "walkthru" for themselves. There will also be tons of people answering any and all questions here on the forums, so even those who can't get the game for another week will be able to learn all about it.

<shrug>

So, while I'd consider your walkthru idea to be fantastic, I think your manner of distribution isn't as awesome. (Just my opinion...keeping in mind that I'm one of the info-starved masses.)

Great walkthru and good idea (that it's something different from a typical preview and something all of us that HAVEN'T been playing the game for months can drool over).

However...



...right now your walkthru is something exceptionally special since few people have played the game. By this time tomorrow, it's going to mean a great deal less when a lot of people are playing and living the "walkthru" for themselves. There will also be tons of people answering any and all questions here on the forums, so even those who can't get the game for another week will be able to learn all about it.

<shrug>

So, while I'd consider your walkthru idea to be fantastic, I think your manner of distribution isn't as awesome. (Just my opinion...keeping in mind that I'm one of the info-starved masses.)


nah his walkthrough is exceptional its almost like a play by play announcer
its so cool and valuable
i got a question for you sulla

all those map choices wow is gameplay a little different depending on the map type?terrain type?do resources look different ? kinda like civ 3 with the different terrain types (aka snoopy, or rhyes or the warhammer mod map etc.)

i agree- it was a great article to read- had visuals and explained things clearly. what more can a civer waiting on the game ask for.

a nice read :)

Very informative. You showed more restraint than I to write about it instead of playing.

Ah, a walkthrough of a game. In all honesty, thats a lot better then a scored review of the game. Thanks for making this, I for one really appreciate it.

Thanks for doing this Sullla! I can't wait to read your and Sirian's game.

I've been waiting for this! People like Trip who are firaxian, they should get another screen name and put ideas out or just random tidbits or something. That way they could get the info out and help us all. We all thank you!

im very excited about this,cant wait to see what happens next! :thanx:

What is with all these people with wifes playing? Do nerd marry in droves or something?


No, I only married one. Not a drove. :D

We met on the internet almost 10 years ago...married almost 8 1/2 years.

The first game we played together was Civ2 Networked. Since then we've played a bunch of games together, including single player games where she reads the walkthru and I play it (Jade Empire right now). Would make an interesting thread in off topic: If you play games with your significant other, what games have you played?

Thanks Sulla for all the great info. :)

Yep, thanks for this Sullla, you are an absolute CHAMP!!! One thing I noticed is how both sickness and unhappiness are growing at the equivalent of 1 per population point. That seems inordinately harsh to me-how did YOU find it though? Also, can your improvements/civics settings only impact the POSITIVE side of the ledger (i.e. health and happiness), or can they also impact the NEGATIVE side too (say, an improvement that reduces unhappiness by one, and not increase happiness by one-if that makes sense)?

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

I just noticed something-- has using the river like a road been dropped? All the screenshots show rivers along the square edges like Civ3 whereas in Civ2 the rivers moved through the square.

Excellent Walkthrough so far Sullla...Thanks!:goodjob:

Can you post the second part now?

excellent work, thanks a lot.

i do agree with the other poster.
to delay it is...uhh... a little...uhhh

interesting....

Once i get the game i doubt if i'll care at all about your hard work.
i'll be too busy playing.

but your choice.

as for the remark about girls...

they're pretty cool, check 'em out.
( I'm 51, by the way.)

He said 12pm EST. But maybe a 1 hour pre-release!!!

12PM EDT would be 13 hours from now, not 1 hour from now

Playshogi, rivers were never going to act as roads insofar as unit movement went, but they are going to act as 'roads' for the purposes of trade!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Playshogi, rivers were never going to act as roads insofar as unit movement went, but they are going to act as 'roads' for the purposes of trade!

Doh! Thanks!

Two more hours till 12... I'm sleepy.

Anyone else notice that the root of Sullla's webpage, http://www.kalikokottage.com , is in fact a website for quilting? I think you got some splaining to do mr. /me squints.

Wow. Made a mistake. I meant 12 am. Sorry. Please forgive my ignorance.

Questions Answered! :)


How is Terra different than the original 3 options? Is it all land no water? or is it Earth?

Terra is a map designed to function like Earth. Rather than try to explain it myself, I'll cut and paste from the Map Scripts guide written up by the map's creator (I don't know if the Map Scripts guide is shipping with the game or not, sorry).

=====
Terra
=====

Global Map: World Wrap left to right
Huge Oceanic Map: 104 plots wide, 64 plots tall, at "Standard" map size
Bigger than Civ3!!! Terra maps are BIGGER THAN equivalent Civ3 maps of the same sizes!

Simulates Earth: Randomly generated landmasses that roughly simulate Earth's continents!
Old World Start: All civs start in the "Old World", equivalent to Asia-Europe-Africa
New World: The "New World", equivalent of the Americas, will have to be discovered
Third World: Some small landmasses or island chains may be reachable from Old World


Can you explain why you moved southWEST instead of south? You would still have had the horses and a water connection, and you could have placed a second city on the coast (grassland forest to the left of the stone) with minimal overlap.

I moved mostly to be next to the horses, and to avoid losing a grassland hill tile. I had no clue what most of the surrounding territory looked like at that point. I certainly wasn't thinking about squeezing in a fishing village later - much more important to grab a strong capital site first! :D


all those map choices wow is gameplay a little different depending on the map type?terrain type?do resources look different ? kinda like civ 3 with the different terrain types (aka snoopy, or rhyes or the warhammer mod map etc.)

Obviously certain maps play out differently; an Archipelago map is not going to be the same as a Pangaea map any more than was the case in Civ3. Some of the maps do all kinds of crazy stuff, like have poles at the EAST and WEST rather than north and south, or consist of all land with no water at all, or mirror the terrain exactly down a line in the center of the map. Many of these are intended for MP, but they can all be played in SP as well. As far as how the maps LOOK, that's a graphics mod question. I'm sure that you'll be able to download fan-created graphics soon enough, but none of the map scripts actually do that. They just drawn maps based around certain parameters.


Yep, thanks for this Sullla, you are an absolute CHAMP!!! One thing I noticed is how both sickness and unhappiness are growing at the equivalent of 1 per population point. That seems inordinately harsh to me-how did YOU find it though? Also, can your improvements/civics settings only impact the POSITIVE side of the ledger (i.e. health and happiness), or can they also impact the NEGATIVE side too (say, an improvement that reduces unhappiness by one, and not increase happiness by one-if that makes sense)?

Aussie, each population point adds one point of unhappiness and unhealthiness. You generally need to acquire resources and/or build city improvements to counteract that as your cities grow in size. The system works very well in practice, as you'll see in time. Rather than forced city size limits (6 and 12, as in Civ3), your cities grow dynamically throughout the game. Civics increase the happiness limit instead of removing unhappiness - the effect is the same, and it's MUCH less confusing that way. You could PROBABLY mod it to have that effect if you wanted, but I can't say conclusively on that one.


I just noticed something-- has using the river like a road been dropped? All the screenshots show rivers along the square edges like Civ3 whereas in Civ2 the rivers moved through the square.

Rivers serve as roads for the purpose of trade networks; ie if your cities are both on the same river, they are connected to the same trade network and can share resources. At no point in time were rivers ever intended to provide a movement bonus (this may have been misreported by some gaming sites that misunderstood the concept).

I'll try to answer more questions as they come up. Also - Part Two has been added. :)

<snip - thanks>
I moved mostly to be next to the horses, and to avoid losing a grassland hill tile. I had no clue what most of the surrounding territory looked like at that point. I certainly wasn't thinking about squeezing in a fishing village later - much more important to grab a strong capital site first! :D


And here I though it was because you wanted the cash from all those coastal squares.

::confused: Whats so big about the Grassland Hill? The 1 food? I figured the plains hill would be better (4 hammers when mined, vs 1/3). But I can see why you'd want both.


I'll try to answer more questions as they come up. Also - Part Two has been added. :)

But not linked to from the previous page :/

http://www.kalikokottage.com/civ3/sullla/civ4_walk_2.html

edit: lovely review. Out of curiosity, how many hammers do scouts and chariots cost?

(edit) Very nice. Part II is extremely thorough.

Squares bordering a river normally gain a gold piece, but I don't see this on the walkthrough images for the tile that was settled on. Do cities gain gold simply by existing, or does the gold piece coming from that square originate from the river?

(My apologies for the rather labyrinthine language.)

Also, may I ask if the free obelisks from Stonehenge vanish when Calendar is researched?

that second part is awesome. very nice indeed. =D

Part two is just as good as part one, great work. :)

cool, buddy, thx

A suggestion:

When I went to read part 2, I was surprised to not find it linked from the main page. Instead, I had to go through all of part 1 in order to get to part 2. That's not so bad now, but by the time you get to part 5 (for instance), it's going to be very tedious. Can you put the links on the main page, instead?

Good deal, been waiting for more!

This is a very good resource, and I thank you for your hard work. I look forward to the rest of it.

Since your sliders as of part 2 are set at science 90% and taxes at 10% how the heck does culture work? I would think you wouldn't be growing if you didn't have at least 10% in it?

Also is there a certian level or set variables for your religion spreading. I mean would Hindu have spread to Vicky any faster had you a temple or cathedral? Also why wasn't Medina already your religion? Your settler came from your holy city, you would think it would be totally converted.

Yup. Exellent work and great reading. It's a shame I won't be reading any more after I get the game (tomorrow).

One thing that's surprising me reading this is the seemingly rapid expansion. It's hard to get a precise feel for it but it seems as if his expansion vs city size leads to plenty of early worker and settler action. I like seeing the building of wonders so seemingly early (as far as empire size goes) too.

I wonder how many people will be trying Saladim first after reading this walkthru? ;)

Probably a dumb question, but the "red dot" (marking the potential spot for the next settler) and the city radius, is that something in the game, or photoshopped in after? If it's in the game, that'd be GREAT for planning out your area...

VERY nice,

Three questions though
1. Culture (same question as Javal Tiger) do you get it the same as in Civ3 (buildings make it) or is there additional ways to do that.

2. Non-State Religions what are their effects? (particularly in multi religious cities)

3. Is city maintenance cost related to the upkeep cost of civics?

I can't wait to read about how you happen upon another civilization and it wipes yours off the map in quick order! . . . .

Well, at least thats the normal sequence of events in "MY" games. :)

:mad: :mad: :mad: Please post part III before I resort to playing another 1/2 game of Civ III!!:mad: :mad:

I can't take it anymore. My G.D. preorder didnt even ship from gamestop blah blah.

damn.

I'm going to have to buy another non pre-order version in the morning

edit: I love your walkthrough so far, by the way. next best thing to playing the game i guess :cry:

Great job, Sulla! :thumbsup:

Just posted a news about it. :)

I guess it was okay. Sure you don't want to post the whole thing?

VERY nice,

Three questions though
1. Culture (same question as Javal Tiger) do you get it the same as in Civ3 (buildings make it) or is there additional ways to do that.

2. Non-State Religions what are their effects? (particularly in multi religious cities)

3. Is city maintenance cost related to the upkeep cost of civics?

I'm pretty sure that, with BudJewish just north of him (India), we're going to see the answer to #2.

As for speeding it up, please do. But I'm not too worried: my order doesn't ship until tomorrow (if it DOES ship, and I'm not one of the many screwed by Amazon's delays :( ) and won't get here until the weekend--at which point it'll return to the carrier's warehouse until Monday. So having this spread out over a week isn't too bad.

I just hope it arrives before the weekend. I actually have time off from my volunteer job, but the weekend after, I'm back to going to bed early on Friday, getting up at 3am on Saturday, working 7 hours, then going home to go back to bed.

Probably a dumb question, but the "red dot" (marking the potential spot for the next settler) and the city radius, is that something in the game, or photoshopped in after? If it's in the game, that'd be GREAT for planning out your area...

Sulla used one of his image programs to add the red dot and red city-footprint outline to a screenshot. (It's not in the game).

Dotmaps(TM) to communicate city planning are a tradition that began in the first Realms Beyond succession game, back in winter 2002, and spread through the SG community. (Succession games need to communicate plans from one player to the next who will be taking a turn at the game, or to discuss plans as a team).

The most powerful dot is the infamous Pink Dot(TM). http://sirian.warpcore.org/smilies/pinkdot.gif Firaxis was wise to tap in to its power and harness this energy force in the development of Civ4. :lol:

Sulla is clearly saving up the Pink Dot for more important uses. ;)


Civ4 does have the ability to draw on the map to communicate some things in multiplayer, though! See the game manual for more details.


- Sirian

That last picture brings up something interesting. It looks like England's York has expanded its boarders, yet it did NOT gain controll of a 1st ring tile. Your capital still owns it despite it being THIRD ring?! Wow.

Clearly culture is going to be a lot trickier to manage in civ 4 than it was in civ 3. There won't be an settling somewhere and automatically pushing somone elses boarders back either to get tiles to work, or especially to claim resources (removing a semi exploit in some situations)

I await tomorrows instalment. Keep up the good work.

- Maniac

thanks for the great walkthrough~
now cant wait for the game even more!

Great Stuff Sulla ... Can't wait to have the game on my PC !!!!!!

I'm wondering why you didn't go for Writing after Animal Husbandry. Given that you are in contact with 3 civs, and Writing (I think) gives you the ability to trade techs (but not gold), wouldn't you have been able to jump start your tech by trading for Mining from Ghandi, Agriculture from Egypt, and Fishing from Vicky?

Or do all sides need to have writing for that to work? I realise you probably won't get a wonder tech or a military tech. You'd also be able to build a library, for culture and research.

Thanks Sulla for a great part 2. :)

On the 1000BC screenshot the screen says "camera flying enabled." Thus I assume there is a 'restricted' graphics mode and a mode where you can spin the screen around like mad and such. Does leaving camera flying disabled noticably reduce the draw on the graphics card?

This is awesome, Sulla!!! I'd probobly be in a mental hospital if you woudnt have posted this :) great work buddy :) now i just cant wait for the rest of the story :p

Sulla:

You are my hero!*! The read is fab and you are cruising thanks to quick use of all the resources. It will be oh so fun to raze resources, as I love that type of thing. ;) :) :0 Clearly MP will be a total blast!!! Thanks to the max for your time and consideration of us poor blokes.

Also, my guess is that higher difficulty levels will be much, much harder than this. Between your concise explanations and the pre-release info we have, the game is really coming to light.

Gratefully,

Darth Tater :)

Thanks for posting your walkthrough, you've done a great job so far. Really enjoyed reading it while I anxiously await playing the game myself.

Good stuff Sulla! Thank you so much for doing this for the whole civ community! :goodjob:

Question about religion: India has founded both Buddhism and Judaism... does that mean that Delhi is both the holy city of Buddhism and Judaism? Can you 'choose' to found a religion ina a city that isn't you capital?

How does multople-sponsoring of religion work, or even states with various non-sponsored religions?

If you have not already finished your game for this 7-day thing... could you consider founding another religion and talking about this stuff?

Thanks Sulla - a very well read and very informative story.

Carry on! :)

Yes, fantastic write-up, better than all the reviews. (Not to diss on CivRule's incredible info page, tho!)

One question: I know you needed a pasture to harvest those horses, but did you also need a road to that plot?

Yes, fantastic write-up, better than all the reviews. (Not to diss on CivRule's incredible info page, tho!)

One question: I know you needed a pasture to harvest those horses, but did you also need a road to that plot?
I would guess that the pasture gives the production bonuses, and the road connects the resource

I would guess that the pasture gives the production bonuses, and the road connects the resource

Yeah, I'd have thought that too.

Great work, Sulla!:goodjob: :goodjob:

Thankssssss Sulla. It just helps me wait for the 4th of november! Very good job indeed!

Yes very nice read, mahalos!

Thanks Sulla.
Great stuff.

Here in aussie land we have at least a week to wait.
This walk through is a fantastic help.

I have bookmarked your site.
I do hope it is a long term effort.:goodjob:

Thanks Sulla!
This walkthrough will surely have me prepared when I actually do get my copy of Civ4! And moreover gives something to do while I'm waiting.

Sullla, how is that the warrior unit has 3 men in graphic and a strength of 2, which cut into half to 1.0 and then showing only one figure?

3/2 = 1? :)

If so, why the 3 figures for a 2 strength?

Does 3 simply mean the unit is unharmed, being at full strength?

kind of confusing...

I believe at 3/3 strength, all three units show, at 2/3 two units will show and at 1/3 only one will show. So basically a 9 strenght unit will drop to showing only 2 units at 6 strength and 1 unt at 3 strength.

I *think*.

Sullla, how is that the warrior unit has 3 men in graphic and a strength of 2, which cut into half to 1.0 and then showing only one figure?

3/2 = 1? :)

If so, why the 3 figures for a 2 strength?

Does 3 simply mean the unit is unharmed, being at full strength?

kind of confusing...

3/2 = 1.5 but they cant show just a pair of legs (or whatever) for the 0.5 bit so they round it down.

Sulla you wrote very nice walkthrough, I can't wait to read rest of it! Thanks man!

I'm wondering why you didn't go for Writing after Animal Husbandry. Given that you are in contact with 3 civs, and Writing (I think) gives you the ability to trade techs (but not gold), wouldn't you have been able to jump start your tech by trading for Mining from Ghandi, Agriculture from Egypt, and Fishing from Vicky?

Or do all sides need to have writing for that to work?

Only one side needs the tech, but it is Alphabet (which comes later) not Writing. Beelining to Alphabet is a valid strategy, but it is far from the only right choice.


- Sirian

Keeps getting better and better. Keep up the good work!

That's a great read. A lot more fun to read than all those reviews :)

WOW! That plane flight to LAX (to get the game 10 days earlier) is looking better and better. I wonder how many coins are stuck in the couch cushions? Hey! The kids don't keep count of their cash, I'll pay them back later.

Bloody FANTASTIC site, and TA MUCHLY ("thanks a lot") for doing it. Goodonya, mate!

Top walkthrough Sulla mate. Really gives all us an advantage when learning how to play the game once we get our grubby mitts on it.

Thank you very much. :)

Very nicely done, although I think you'll be seeing a lot less hits when the game ships.

Must have taken some time, thanks very much.

Absolutely brilliant, and a really informative insight of the game we're all gagging to get our mitts on!

Thank you so much for that Sullla. :)

Upload the next part already![/europe]

:D

Awesome site and tons of info. Keeps me occupied while I wait for :mad: 3-DAY SHIPPING:mad: ......it's free so ....******* tricked me!:aargh::ar15:

1. Does Gandhi taking a good move by inventing more that one religion?

2. In Civrules page it was said that an iron mine provide 4 additional hammer and that an iron deposit won't be revealed until a certain technology is discovered. Does it mean if later an iron deposit is discovered on your city square, you'll lose the potential 4 hammer by not able to mine the city square?

3. To build iron consuming unit, do you need to just connect road/river to iron square or do you need to build mine too?

4. Will you demonstrate 'slavery' and show us its related information? (like people-hammer convertion ratio, remaining turn until the city happiness fully recovered, etc)

Thanks Sulla :goodjob: With your walkthrough we could skip the game's tutorial phase. :)

thx Sulla, I　dont' have the game but your walkthrough comforts me a lot

Wow! Friendly units can share a square even if they're not in an alliance or anything. Was that common knowledge before? I'm not sure how it will affect gameplay. Do you think if one side declares war, all the share squares immediately start a battle?

Wow! Friendly units can share a square even if they're not in an alliance or anything. Was that common knowledge before? I'm not sure how it will affect gameplay. Do you think if one side declares war, all the share squares immediately start a battle?

Wow, assuming if that's the way it is then collateral damage attacks against 'the' stack could sure get interesting.

Once again, big thanks for this Sullla-I can't imagine how difficult it was to drag yourself away from the game long enough to actually enlighten us to this extent ;)! Three great things which are really coming across are:

1) The ancient era appears to move quite slowly.

2) Now, if the earlier eras worked like they did in civ3 #1 would be a BAD thing, however, the second thing I noticed is just how many strategic choices you have from the outset of the game. Far, FAR more than you had in Civ2 or Civ3-just in terms of terrain/city improvements alone. Not to mention tech choices in relation to civics and religion.

3) Researching technology-in the Ancient era-now seems to be a VERY big deal because, unlike in civ2 and civ3, you can't just go around and collect the other half of the tech tree from your neighbours.

4) How you treat your neighbours in the early part of the game seems to be a MUCH bigger deal than in civ3-where how you behaved seemed to have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on how they treated you later on!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Three great things, Aussie? Thought of a fourth while you were typing then forgot to update your count? :D I've done that myself. :)


If Sulla's hits drop off because some readers went out and got their own copy and are too busy living through their own walkthroughs to read the rest of his... I don't think he'll mind.

- Sirian

I'd be surprised if the dropoff is really that severe. Speaking for myself, I really can't get away with playing Civ4 at work. Reading a walkthrough, on the other hand...

Aussie,

In ref. to #3 it still remains to be seen as the needed techs to do diplomatic tech swaps haven't been discovered yet. They may become important once they are allowed.

My wild guess is that if England continues to adopt Sulla's religion, and with their poor starting position may be a weak civ in the first place, causing them to be willing to ally with him. Allies may be willing to trade techs at reasonable rates.

I'm really looking forward to the next installment as his presentation is unique.

Fine job Sulla! :goodjob:

Dang it... I already found a typo in the game. In Victoria's introductory statement, that should be "God commands us to give aid".

Dang it... I already found a typo in the game. In Victoria's introductory statement, that should be "God commands us to give aid".

What about "WE are Victoria..." doesn't matter though! LOOKS GREAT!

-SA

Fortunately, typos are simple enough that even I could write a mod to fix them. I expect that the "Perfect English" mod will be available within two weeks (one if we're lucky).

EDIT: @SA: ever heard of the "Royal 'We'"? :lol:

Dang it... I already found a typo in the game. In Victoria's introductory statement, that should be "God commands us to give aid".


That may be meant to be that way. Old, upper-class English is different. That sounds somewhat like the way Shakespeare would say it.

In RL Victory always spoke of herself in the third person as she and the Kingdom were one. She said we, never I.

That may be meant to be that way. Old, upper-class English is different. That sounds somewhat like the way Shakespeare would say it.

In RL Victory always spoke of herself in the third person as she and the Kingdom were one. She said we, never I.

One more reason for me to keep my contempt for the royal family... ;)

-SA

The problem isn't the plural - it's the lack of 'to'. If she had used 'we', referring either to all the people or merely herself, it would have been fine, because the 'we' would have been part of the commandment. It's permissable to drop the word 'that' before we (God commands that we give aid) in standard English.

But 'us' can only be used with "commands (noun) to".

Very well done. I am giddy with excitement.:crazyeye:

The problem isn't the plural - it's the lack of 'to'. If she had used 'we', referring either to all the people or merely herself, it would have been fine, because the 'we' would have been part of the commandment. It's permissable to drop the word 'that' before we (God commands that we give aid) in standard English.

But 'us' can only be used with "commands (noun) to".

Shakespeare would leave out 'to' in his sentences sometimes as well. I know it sounds awkward to our ears, but think of the King James Bible for examples. Many bible quotes also sound funny for the same reasons. English is a messed up language and adding traditional upper class traits to it only makes it worst.

Shakespeare was writing in iambic pentameter - it's accepted that the normal rules of grammar sometimes take a back seat to artistic requirements.

Victoria, however, is not obligated to follow a particular rhythm.

(shrugs) I can't say that leaving out the word is permissable. Nor can I say with certainty that it's an error. It's very jarring, though.

We need more! I need more! What happens next? ;)

It's very jarring, though.


Why do I somehow suspect that in RL having a conversation with Queen Victoria would be very jarring as well. She doesn't exactly come across as an easy person to talk to if you know what I mean. The image used in the game seems to convey that same feeling pretty well. ;)

have read up to the end of part 2 and this is an excellent walk thru, so many walk thrus I've seen just tell you what to do period. You show what you did in an actual game and most importantly the whys of what you do...and the are a few oops that I like too my scout finished its turn next to a barbarian which will kill my scout if he chooses to attack - dont know about civ4 yet, but like the barbarian in civ 3 will choose not to attack a scout/worker/settler. I lvoe it.

You are right Sirrian-forgot to go back and correct my post. Funny thing is, by rereading the walkthrough, I picked up on a fifth thing which caught my attention, which is just how close the top 4 players actually are in terms of score. It certainly seems a LOT more difficult for a human player to simply 'break away', even on 'lower' levels.
@Mossmonster. I realise that techs can eventually be traded-which is why I referred specifically to the ancient age-but even THIS restriction will have an ENORMOUS impact, IMO, on how players both select their techs and how much they assign to science more generally.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Good news as well, it was only after his SECOND city that he faced a minor maintenance charge... that is good to know...

-SA

@Mossmonster. I realise that techs can eventually be traded-which is why I referred specifically to the ancient age-but even THIS restriction will have an ENORMOUS impact, IMO, on how players both select their techs and how much they assign to science more generally.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.


I was considering this as a possible strategy may be to take advantage of the new more flexible tech tree and not research many of the ancient era techs early in the game when they require considerable effort to learn, but instead to wait. By the time the tech catches up and allows trades they will be farther down the tree and may be able to be acquired in mass by trade from your allies for quite cheap. Depends in great part on how the AI values 'older' vs. 'current' techs.

Good news as well, it was only after his SECOND city that he faced a minor maintenance charge... that is good to know... Technically, after his third. Or are you not counting the capital?

Oh I also have to say that, as much as I have loved all the 'Hands-on Previews' from Solver, MarkG, Thunderfall, Civrules and Chieftess, this Walk-through just makes me want this game in ways the previews never did, because it is sooo detailed and in-depth, and makes me understand the features (and what makes them so different from anything we have seen before) so much better!
Once again, truly BRILLIANT WORK Sullla!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Technically, after his third. Or are you not counting the capital?

Yeah, i wasn't counting the capital. Did he mention what size map he was playing on? because it is nice to know that you can have 100 science on 2 cities...

One question though, is there unit maintenance anymore?

-SA

Yeah, i wasn't counting the capital. Did he mention what size map he was playing on?

He didn't mention anything specifically in the text, but both set-up screens show 'standard' as the map size. :)

My wild guess is that if England continues to adopt Sulla's religion, and with their poor starting position may be a weak civ in the first place, causing them to be willing to ally with him.
More likely Sullla wipes the unsightly blight off the face of the map.

Or at least strong-arms any relevant resources out of her.

@Speaker, @Khaim,

The key factor that's new is that Sulla's religion is creeping into the English cities. Civs that share your religion have a much higher opinion of you. Why not be friends with her, set up some trade routes, swap some techs and know your Southern border is secure. That frees you up face the real enemy, the stronger civs to the North. Why not spend your forces smacking on them instead. :devil:

Besides, did you see the English terrain? Looks pretty nasty. :thumbdown

One issue that jumped out to me was that Sulla is directing the actions of the workers. When I played Civ3 I usually set the workers to automate other than to connect my cities. I got the feeling that Sulla wasn’t directing the workers to show us how it looks as much as an indication of how even worker placement takes a much more strategic role in this game. While some may feel that this “adds” to the micromanagement of the game, due to the fact that there won’t be ICS (at least no without its own cost), I think the game is taken to another strategic level.

Another thing that jumped out to me was that the cites cost not the buildings. I had missed the fact that there are no maintenance cost for buildings. Good news indeed for the builders.

I enjoyed the walkthrough greatly! I look forward to the successive chapters. Thanks for your work and your willingness to address the issues raised.

Hi,

Very nicely done, although I think you'll be seeing a lot less hits when the game ships.
Not necessarily so. While the tutorial aspect of his walkthrough will be less valuable once most people have the game, it still remains a well-written and exciting report of a complete game of Civ 4, something many people like to read. I know that I will finish reading it, even now that I know I will have the game myself tomorrow morning. I like reading other's game reports, be it Sulla's, Sirian's, from SGs here at CFC or Epic reports from Realms Beyond, so I guess he will still have more than enough hits later. :)

-Kylearan

In civ 3, the AI didnt touch any of my workers until way after 0 AD. I preferred to handle them one by one. I wonder if I'll ever try the automation of workers in civ 4, apparantly it's supposed to be better than civ 3. Better does not mean acceptable though....

Questions Answered! :)

=====
Terra
=====

Global Map: World Wrap left to right
Huge Oceanic Map: 104 plots wide, 64 plots tall, at "Standard" map size
Bigger than Civ3!!! Terra maps are BIGGER THAN equivalent Civ3 maps of the same sizes!

Simulates Earth: Randomly generated landmasses that roughly simulate Earth's continents!
Old World Start: All civs start in the "Old World", equivalent to Asia-Europe-Africa
New World: The "New World", equivalent of the Americas, will have to be discovered
Third World: Some small landmasses or island chains may be reachable from Old World



Bigger? Bigger. I guess that assumption that Civ4 maps are tiny in comparison flies out the window.

Civs that share your religion have a much higher opinion of you. Why not be friends with her, set up some trade routes, swap some techs and know your Southern border is secure.
He has more powerful religious allies to the north. And London will prove to be a very valuable, or dare I say, "great" city......


That frees you up face the real enemy, the stronger civs to the North. Why not spend your forces smacking on them instead.
Taking out the English won't require much effort on Sullla's part and he will still have later military campaign's in the north.

Trust me. ;)

I think one of the things which makes the AI better for automation is the strong link between terrain, resources and terrain improvements. In civ3, you could build a mine almost ANYWHERE-same with farms and roads. Now certain improvements are just no good for certain terrains OR can't be built due to absence of resources-the terrain issue was what made SMAC automation so good too! Also, as roads no longer provide a direct commerce bonus, then roading will more likely be a 'minimalist' approach on automated!
Anyway, bedtime for me now-hopefully part 3 will be up by the time I am ;)!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

The game seems to be verry slow in the beginning. :(

And personally I'm worried about the religion-tech research. This could be very unbalanced/random aspect during the game. Could I "survive" if I didn't found first available religion ? Or my citizens will be atracted by foreign heresies ? :mischief:

Regards

@Mîtiu Ioan. Define slow? For me, the 'slow pace' of the Ancient age is what I am most looking forward to-as I said above. Remember, though, you must break out of the thought patterns of Civ3. Slow in Civ3 would have been VERY boring, wheras from all I am reading the early game in Civ4 is slow but very deep and strategic! He sounds like he has had a LOT of fun making really 'tough choices' so early in the game. In particular where religion is concerned, it doesn't sound completely random, but just another layer of strategy which the player has to account for in their decisions-along with whether to pursue a Great Wonder or build settlers/workers etc. I am also looking forward to these tough choices. Pursue a religion and possibly miss out, avoid religion altogether and take a more 'secular route' (but adopt another civs religion in the early game) or either of the above, but with the knowledge that you are going to 'usurp' that religion's Holy City-and all of the benefits it gives! As I have said-I see these as all being positives, not negatives at all!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

The walkthough definately shows how USEFUL the spiritual trait is though, even tempts me to use a civ with it first time around...

-SA

{...}wheras from all I am reading the early game in Civ4 is slow but very deep and strategic! He sounds like he has had a LOT of fun making really 'tough choices' so early in the game.

Debatable. :mischief:

For the moment the "opening sequence" seems very deep because is ( not ) yet fully known and standardized but in 2-3 month ... 10 turn for the first worker ???? :confused:

Anyway - I will get Civ 4 in maybe two month ( most probably from a ex-collegue of mine which study in US ) an until then this aspects will be probably well known and studied. ;)

Regards

The walkthough definately shows how USEFUL the spiritual trait is though, even tempts me to use a civ with it first time around...

-SA

Now you know why I choose the Indians? ;)

Now you know why I choose the Indians? ;)

I think I just may join you ;) save the germans americans for later...

-SA

The walkthough definately shows how USEFUL the spiritual trait is though, even tempts me to use a civ with it first time around...

-SA

Though there are only 2 early religions when 3rd (Judaism) takes quite a few tech before you can get it. With more players, you will have quite a strugle to get one of them even with spiritual trait, without it you have pretty much no chance.

Anyway, if you go to early religion, you will get important techs a bit later that allow faster expansion. Farming, wheel, hunting, animal husbandry and pottery are all very important and many non-religious civs got 2 of them all ready.

Of course there is also rush to iron working option, or fishing-sailing for some civs on islands.

It's nice to see that there are many good options to try :)

Actually I did wonder that. Is there any advantage to NOT starting\discovering\birthing a religion? Otherwise it's not really all that strategic is it?

Actually I did wonder that. Is there any advantage to NOT starting\discovering\birthing a religion? Otherwise it's not really all that strategic is it?

I quess conquering a holy city earlier is a strategic option :)

-SA

Question Session Again


Since your sliders as of part 2 are set at science 90% and taxes at 10% how the heck does culture work? I would think you wouldn't be growing if you didn't have at least 10% in it?

Also is there a certian level or set variables for your religion spreading. I mean would Hindu have spread to Vicky any faster had you a temple or cathedral? Also why wasn't Medina already your religion? Your settler came from your holy city, you would think it would be totally converted.

Culture works in basically the same way as Civ3 (buildings/wonders provide culture) expect that there are also additional ways to generate culture too: having your state religion in a city, diverting a percentage of your commerce into the luxury slider, or running certain specialists that increase culture. These are additional ways to get culture, but the basic formula from the Civ3 is still in operation as well. Oh, and you don't even start the game with the ability to use the luxury slider - you have to research your way up to that!

Religion spreds faster after you build the Shrine for that religion; I believe that that's the only thing that affects the rate at which it spreads on its own. Not 100% positive on exactly how the religion spreading on its own works. Religion does not transfer along with settlers; each city starts out devoid of religion, and stays that way until either a religion spreads there on its own, or a missionary spreads a religion to the city.


Three questions though
1. Culture (same question as Javal Tiger) do you get it the same as in Civ3 (buildings make it) or is there additional ways to do that.

2. Non-State Religions what are their effects? (particularly in multi religious cities)

3. Is city maintenance cost related to the upkeep cost of civics?

I think I already answered the first one. As for #2, non-state or minority religions don't have any effect so long as you are running one of the religious civics other than Freedom of Religion, but you may want to spread a minority religion around your cities anyway in order to get shrine income and to take advantage later on of the benefits from Freedom of Religion (+1 happiness for each religion in a city).

City Maintenance costs are unrelated to the civics costs; they are based on the number of cities you have and the distance of each city to the palace (or Forbidden Palace). I'll have more to say about maintenance costs later in the Walkthrough.


That last picture brings up something interesting. It looks like England's York has expanded its boarders, yet it did NOT gain controll of a 1st ring tile. Your capital still owns it despite it being THIRD ring?! Wow.

Yes, this is sort of an advanced point, but cities are NOT guaranteed a certain amount of tiles in Civ4. (In Civ3, cities were basically guaranteed to have a 9-tile radius, so you could use settlers aggressively to push back cultural borders). If you plop down a tiny new city next to a cultural giant's 5th ring borders, they still won't move unless you get some culture in that city.


I'm wondering why you didn't go for Writing after Animal Husbandry. Given that you are in contact with 3 civs, and Writing (I think) gives you the ability to trade techs (but not gold), wouldn't you have been able to jump start your tech by trading for Mining from Ghandi, Agriculture from Egypt, and Fishing from Vicky?

Or do all sides need to have writing for that to work? I realise you probably won't get a wonder tech or a military tech. You'd also be able to build a library, for culture and research.

Now this is one of those things that you have to play the game to understand. :) First of all, tech trading is enabled at Alphabet, a tech beyond Writing, and an Alphabet beeline to open up tech trading can indeed be a good strategy to pursue. BUT, keep in mind that at the time I chose to pursue Mining, the ONLY thing my workers could do was build roads and pastures. They could not build mines, could not build farms, could not chop forests. Going for Alphabet would have meant that my workers would have to stand around doing nothing for 20 turns while I researched the tech. That would be rather inefficient! As I said in the Walkthrough, having to research the Worker techs makes for a great deal of strategy. I tend to knock them out fairly early, but in certain starting positions you could skip some of them and potentially do very well. A lot depends on where you start, and what resources you have next to you.


On the 1000BC screenshot the screen says "camera flying enabled." Thus I assume there is a 'restricted' graphics mode and a mode where you can spin the screen around like mad and such. Does leaving camera flying disabled noticably reduce the draw on the graphics card?

Yes, I turned on a game option that allows you to do the crazy zooming in and out to take better pictures. The default option still gives a lot of leeway, but has some limits. I don't know the specifics of performance, but my machine did slow down when I had it do some of the crazier stuff with the camera. Probably a good idea not to use the camera flying if your machine just barely runs Civ4.


Question about religion: India has founded both Buddhism and Judaism... does that mean that Delhi is both the holy city of Buddhism and Judaism? Can you 'choose' to found a religion ina a city that isn't you capital?

How does multople-sponsoring of religion work, or even states with various non-sponsored religions?

When you found a religion, the game picks a random city of your to be the Holy City. Now it can be any city, but right at the start of the game you only have one city (your capital) so thus the super-early religions will always have the capital as their Holy City. You do not get to pick which city becomes the Holy City.

Multiple religions in the same civ is quite common. Only one of them can be the state religion, but you may want to spread around your miniority religions for shrine income benefit and for use of Freedom of Religion later on (see above).


1. Does Gandhi taking a good move by inventing more that one religion?

2. In Civrules page it was said that an iron mine provide 4 additional hammer and that an iron deposit won't be revealed until a certain technology is discovered. Does it mean if later an iron deposit is discovered on your city square, you'll lose the potential 4 hammer by not able to mine the city square?

3. To build iron consuming unit, do you need to just connect road/river to iron square or do you need to build mine too?

4. Will you demonstrate 'slavery' and show us its related information? (like people-hammer convertion ratio, remaining turn until the city happiness fully recovered, etc)

1) Well, that all depends. It's never a bad move to have control of an additional religion, but you have to ask yourself, would it have been a BETTER move to research different techs? For example, I probably could have gotten Judaism myself in this game, but it was more important in my opinion to pursue worker techs and increase the growth curve of my civ. So that's a very situational question with no right answer; a lot depends on what your goals are. If you're going for a cultural victory, you should try to found as many religions as possible. The Gandhi AI likes to found a lot of religions, so you'll tend to see him pursue them aggressively.

2) Iron is a good resource to have, since it's both needed for lots of units and it adds a lot of shields to the tile it's on. If it turned out that there was iron underneath one of my cities, yes I couldn't mine that tile to get additional shields, but I'd be glad anyway just to have iron!

3) You need a road and a mine. Similarly, I needed a road on my horses and a pasture to be able to build horse units.

4) Sorry, I didn't use Slavery in this game. It's rarely worthwhile to whip your people for shields (growth = power), except on the very high difficulty levels where the happiness limits crowd you very early on. Slavery also useful on archipelago maps where shields are hard to come by. The general rule is that 1 pop = 20 shields if I recall correctly. In some MP games I've used Slavery to save my butt, but otherwise I've tended not to use it a lot.


One question though, is there unit maintenance anymore?

Yes, there is unit maintenance. There is a certain number of "free units" your civ gets to support, and beyond that you must pay to support them (this number is set by difficulty level). Certain civics (Vassalage and Pacifism) can also either increase your unit support, or make you pay additional money for units. You also have to pay extra in unit support when your units are outside your civ's borders (makes sense that it costs more to support them in foreign territory, right?)


One issue that jumped out to me was that Sulla is directing the actions of the workers. When I played Civ3 I usually set the workers to automate other than to connect my cities. I got the feeling that Sulla wasn’t directing the workers to show us how it looks as much as an indication of how even worker placement takes a much more strategic role in this game. While some may feel that this “adds” to the micromanagement of the game, due to the fact that there won’t be ICS (at least no without its own cost), I think the game is taken to another strategic level.

Not a question, but I wanted to comment on this. In Civ3, I would often find myself with literally over a hundred workers by the end of the game, and while I was still anal enough to move them all by hand, it was an enormous chore. The worker AI is pretty good in Civ4, but still not nearly at a level where I would trust it to move my workers (all previews aside, the worker AI is never going to be as good as a human). But the great thing is that you don't NEED a hundred workers in Civ4; one per city usually seems to be about right, and moving a dozen or so workers is something that's easily manageable. In other words, the game has been designed to cut out a huge amount of micromanagement hassel. It's infinitely less painful to move the workers yourself in Civ4. :D


The game seems to be verry slow in the beginning.

And personally I'm worried about the religion-tech research. This could be very unbalanced/random aspect during the game. Could I "survive" if I didn't found first available religion ? Or my citizens will be atracted by foreign heresies ?

Certainly a fair point. On many turns at the beginning of the game, I was spending most of my time exploring the map. On the other hand, you can also fly through these turns very fast, so it's not entirely accurate to say that the game's slow in the beginning. One nice thing is that if you don't like the pace of the Normal game, you can bump things up to Quick and play a much faster game. Some of our testers got addicted to Quick and couldn't get off the speed long enough to go back to Normal (*cough* Chieftess *cough* :mischief: )

By no means do you need a religion to succeed in Civ4. Religions add happiness and culture and let you do some neat additional stuff, but a no-religion start is entirely viable, and can even have some diplomatic advantages (everyone with different religions hates you, remember). Sirian's actually been arguing that it's more advantageous to skip a religion on the higher difficulties, and while I don't agree with him on that, I can see his point. Don't think you NEED to have a religion to win. If worst comes to worst, you can adopt the religion of your neighbor too.

Lots of good questions guys. And to rephrase what Sirian said earlier, it's no big deal if people aren't interested in the Walkthrough once they've already gotten copies of Civ4. That's fine! This is really intended for people who HAVEN'T made up their minds as to whether to buy Civ4 or not, and to give them enough info to decide whether it will be a good purchase for them. Believe me, you won't hurt my feelings if you're having too much fun playing Civ4 to come back and read more. :cool:

Hi,

Is there any advantage to NOT starting\discovering\birthing a religion? Otherwise it's not really all that strategic is it?
By choosing to go for a religion, you neglect other techs that might be useful to have early as well, like techs for improving your lands, or military techs to wage war early (especially if you have an early UU). So I guess while founding a religion looks like a strong move, I don't think it's a no-brainer as you may sacrifice other things for that. Everything comes with a price: What's the use of having a holy city if you lack decent units to defend against your ultra-aggressive next-door neighbour?

-Kylearan

Actually I did wonder that. Is there any advantage to NOT starting\discovering\birthing a religion? Otherwise it's not really all that strategic is it?

Quoted from Sulla's website here (http://www.kalikokottage.com/civ3/sullla/civ4_walk_1a.html)

1) Any city with your state religion in it produces 1 culture per turn. The holy city of your state religion also produces an impressive 5 culture/turn. Spreading your religion around is thus a good way to expand borders early on in the game.
2) Cities with your state religion in them get +1 happy face, which allows them to grow one size larger (more on this later).
3) Cities with religion in them can build religion-specific buildings like temples and cathedrals. No religion, and you can't build a temple!
4) Similarly, since a temple is a prerequisite for priest specialists, you can't create priest specialists without a religion either (more on city specialists later).
5) If you control the Holy City for a religion and get a Great Prophet, you can have him create the Shrine for that religion. The Shrine is a wonder that produces 1 gold/turn, every turn, for every city in the world that has that religion. If you've spread your religion around a lot, this can be a LOT of money!
6) Finally, religion has a huge amount of influence on diplomacy. Civs that share the same religion will tend to be friends; those with different religions will have real trouble getting along. In this game, I'll be trying my best to spread Hinduism around and reap some major shrine income down the road.


Long, but to put it simply,
1) Your state religion is important within your cities!
2) More of your cities' religion similar to your state religion, more cultural & happiness benefits
3) Owning a Holy city similar to your state religion gives greater benefits
4) Religion starts spreading from Holy city
5) Holy city is only founded to the first Civ who discovers it
6) State religion can be adopted after discovering the approriate Technology
7) Therefore you can adopt a state religion even after someone has first discovered it

Now think about this carefully. If you do not found any religion first, that means you don't get a Holy city while others are benefitting from the cultural, happiness, line of sight and later on, money. On the other hand if your found the religion, you get all these benefits and all the while denynig others from benefitting it!

Edit: The Man has already answered above!!! ;)

Actually I did wonder that. Is there any advantage to NOT starting\discovering\birthing a religion? Otherwise it's not really all that strategic is it? Opportunity cost. That is to say, there's no downside to founding a religion (and no upside to not having a religion). But trying to do so takes valuable early-game time away from everything else, particularly expansion. Moreover, if you try to found a religion and get beaten to it, you are placed at an early disadvantage (leaving aside the Judaism second-chance option).

Trying to found an early religions is thus analogous to an early Great Wonder: very powerful if you can get it, but a major gamble with such a high price that you might regret it even if you win. You're left with a choice: take a risk and try to secure an early lead, or hope that a slow-and-steady secularist approach will win the eventual race. If that's not a strategic choice, I don't know what is.

Thanks again, good second chapter! I wonder how it ends?
-drjones

Expansionists beware, unit maintenance may be a bigger factor than city maintenance... (just speculation) but you will think twice about expanding too quickly, because even if you can afford to pay for the increased city maintenance you will have to pay for all those extra units to secure your empire :)

-SA

Fantastic walkthrough....this will speed up my start, having reduced my need to consult the manual on many points...thank you very much for the effort you obviously put unto this walkthough.

Great job!

Really nice job, Sulla, but I have to agree with some of the others that it seems pointless to delay the chapters with the game hitting the shelves today. Just release the whole darn thing for us sorry saps who are stuck at work. :sad:

Good job, Sulla!! :thumbsup:
We want more!! :drool:

Quoted from Sulla's website
Long, but to put it simply,
1) Your state religion is important within your cities!
2) More of your cities' religion similar to your state religion, more cultural & happiness benefits
3) Owning a Holy city similar to your state religion gives greater benefits
4) Religion starts spreading from Holy city
5) Holy city is only founded to the first Civ who discovers it
6) State religion can be adopted after discovering the approriate Technology
7) Therefore you can adopt a state religion even after someone has first discovered it

Now think about this carefully. If you do not found any religion first, that means you don't get a Holy city while others are benefitting from the cultural, happiness, line of sight and later on, money. On the other hand if your found the religion, you get all these benefits and all the while denynig others from benefitting it!

Edit: The Man has already answered above!!! ;)

Actually 'founding' a religion (getting the tech first) only gives you the Holy City benefits. Having a 'State' religion gives you all the other benefits. (all you need for that is someone nearby who has a Religion. So Vicky gets the State Religion benefits of Hinduism, without having to found it. (I don't think she even has to have the Polytheism tech?)


City Maintenance costs are unrelated to the civics costs


So basically we have 3 seperate Costs
1-Civics upkeep
2-City maintenance
3-Unit support

For a given set of Civcs is the Total gpt of the Civics upkeep fixed then? (a One pop One city Empire with an organized religion has to pay as much as 50 20 pop cities with Organized religion?) which would seem to make the 'Civic upkeep cost' be NEARLY irrelevant in the later game (when you are making probably 20 times as much gold as in the early game)

Very nicely done, although I think you'll be seeing a lot less hits when the game ships.

Until all the newbies get thumped and come back for guidance. Remember, he's played a lot.


I was considering this as a possible strategy may be to take advantage of the new more flexible tech tree and not research many of the ancient era techs early in the game when they require considerable effort to learn, but instead to wait. By the time the tech catches up and allows trades they will be farther down the tree and may be able to be acquired in mass by trade from your allies for quite cheap. Depends in great part on how the AI values 'older' vs. 'current' techs.

I'm not sure it even makes sense to think about "further down the tree" anymore. The AI shouldn't consider what's older and what's newer; what should matter is only how much it "thinks" you want it, what strategic advantages it confers, what you can offer in return, etc. So a player that chooses a beeline strategy that results in a tech far to the "right" wouldn't necessarily be better off than a player that goes for breadth and gets all the early techs.


I think I already answered the first one. As for #2, non-state or minority religions don't have any effect so long as you are running one of the religious civics other than Freedom of Religion, but you may want to spread a minority religion around your cities anyway in order to get shrine income

I assume that only applies if you control the Holy City for that minority religion and do not control the Holy City for your major religion. If you have the Holy City for your major religion, why dilute your efforts? Unless you get shrine income from any city that has that religion (as opposed to cities with that religion as the majority religion)... So if I have the Holy Cities with Shrines for both Buddhism and Hinduism, do I get 1 gold or 2 gold from a city with 99% Buddhism and 1% Hinduism?

Sullla or Sirian,

What would you suggest for my two SG's? Civilization to try, level, VC?
I'd really like each SG to get completely different views of the game.
Maybe you could post in Who-1 since this thread is overcrowded.

Thanks for so many people answering my question so thoroughly! ^_^

What I meant was more are their direct advantages to having a purely secular civ, to choose it over actually having a religion? Like a financial benefit or having techs that you can only get to research if you DON'T have a religion in your civ, and so on. It matters not really, clearly religion is a big influence in the game and to choose not to have one at some point would be to deprive yourself of many other aspects. So I understand why there isn't this choice now.

Thanks.

what a great read... thanks for taking the time to write it all up!! I was bummed when I got to the end of section 2 :(

Can't wait for the next installments and the outcome of your Civ!

Just wanted to echo the thanks from everyone else. It's quite good, thanks for doing that!

Sorry to bombard you with religion questions, but here's another: if you found two or more religions, would there ever be any reason to have the second or third be your state religion? It seems that the first one you found would always be more widespread in your cities, and thus it makes more sense to keep that one.

I confess to being one of those people that thought, and said to everyone that asked what I thought, based on what I had seen and read of the game so far it had been dumbed down and streamlined for RTS-dom. But reading Sullas walkthrough gave more enlightenment to the game then hundreds of pointless screenshots, previews and reviews.

Perhaps it might not not suck after all :)

But I'll have to wait until the 4th of Nov before the stores overe here get it in stock.

Question;
If two units can co-exist on the same square. What happens if war is declared between the two while they share a square or a city? Is combat resolved or do one have to exit the square and then attack again?

Nice introductory walkthrough.

A couple of questions:

1. Is the game reasonally balanced? Between traits/factions? Between the main core strategies conqueror/builder? Is it easy to be shafted with a poor starting location?

2. How hard is the game? What difficulty evel can you usually win at given a typical start?

Sulla, I echo the other's comments and thanks. The walkthrough is concise and entertaining. I'm sure it will be read and reread for quite a while. When you are finished posting all the installments, go paperback with it and put me down for a first edition, signed of course.:)

Thanks Sulla, that was a nice read before I can get paws on the game.

Sulla, thank you very much for your hard work with this. Your GOTM stories is what got me to buy my third Civ game. Perhaps you or any of the lucky ones who has picked up their copy can answer a small question for me; I'm trying to figure out how good the built-in world maps are (if any). I never did find any decent world maps for civ3...somthing I missed greatly from Civ2

Cheers

absolutly fantastic... thanks for a great job and wilingness to share.. it is just a shame that there will always be a few who fail to appreciated the time it has taken you to write all this down so well just so you can share it.. Thanks again

:goodjob: Sulla, your write ups are awesome. I will not receive Civ4 until next week:sad: so I look foward to each days new section:D. Your write will certainly give all of us who have and will read it a good head start on playing competitively.:thanx:

oh, and please, just keep on reporting Sulla. Even after I get the game, I will keep on reading your reports!!!

Fantastic preview, can't wait for the next section, it was very entertaining read ! :D

Let's see if I understand this re: multiple religions.

If you found more than one religion, each gets a holy city (possibly overlapping?). Each one can then build a shrine. If they spread their religions to your cities (and foreign cities), the shrines each get their revenue from the cities, even if the second and third (etc) religions are small percentages. And there is no unhappiness from multiple religions in a town?

In cost, you've just spent multiple prophets in building shrines, and you've had to set up extra missionary-producing buildings as well as extra missionaries. You've also had to devote a lot of research to the techs, at the expense of other techs and possible stunting of your empire.

Is all of this correct?

Wow Great Job
thanks Sullla!

Awesome read Sullla, thanks a lot.

By the way, are the old 'exploits' from Civ 3 still there to any degree? Can you still get a right of passage, move all your troops next to their cities, and then declare war? Even if the diplomatic consequences are very bad, this is still the most efficient way of wiping a civ out if you're the most powerful in the world.

How about the mass upgrade trick? I know most players considered this a viable strategy, but I thought it was a bit stupid. If I remember properly you can build a lot of low-tech units for less shields, but only BEFORE you research the higher tech. I mean, if this is a viable strategy, why shouldn't you be able to build low-tech units later on, just because your technology is more advanced? It just seems a very artificial way of turning gold into shields. IMO upgrading a unit should require it to sit in a city and get 'rebuilt' with shields (for a slightly lower shield cost and retaining its experience).

Great Job:goodjob: Look forward to part two. A nice diversion ti