View Full Version : Rob's UU Analysis


robcheng
Oct 25, 2005, 01:17 PM
Since I did the one for civ3, I figured I do one for civ4 too, especially since CR was kind enough to post the stats so


American Navy SEAL (Gunpowder Unit. Replaces Standard Marine):
24 Strength, 1 Movement, 160 Hammers
This unit requires Industrialism & Rifling.
The unit's special Abilities are: 1-2 First-Strikes; +50% Attack vs. Machine Gun; +50% Attack vs. Artillery; Starts out with Amphibious & March Promotions. Also note that this unit is not upgradeable to any other unit.


Note that the only abilities that the Standard Marine doesn't already have are the 1-2 First Strikes and March promotion. The free March promotion is actually quite cool, because the unit can heal while moving. I'm less enamored with the first strikes for this unit (and similarly for the Samurai UU) mostly because I find it frustrating to not be able to improve upon them with additional promotions (only bow-based units can add first strikes via promotions). Although balanced, the real issue with this late-game unit is that unless you are playing a industrial/modern/future start, you will probably already have won or lost by the time you can build them.


Arabian Camel Archer (Mounted Unit. Replaces the Standard Knight):
10 Strength, 2 Movement, 90 Hammers
This unit's required technologies are Guilds, Horseback Riding, and Archery.
The Camel Archer's unique abilities are as follows: Immune to first strikes; Doesn't receive defensive bonuses; Can withdraw from combat (25% chance). The unit can later be promoted to the Cavalry.


This is a very good unit. Not only is it a resourceless unit (camels are ubiquitous, right?) but it gets a nice base withdrawal of 25%, with the ability to increase this to 55% through flanking promotions (note neither normal knights nor horse archers have a base withdrawal, so their max. would be 30% with both flanking promotions). A little confusing to call it a Camel Archer though, since it replaces the knight not the horse archer.


Aztec Jaguar (Melee Unit. Replaces the Standard Swordsmen):
5 Strength, 1 Movement, 40 Hammers
The Jaguar requires Iron Working. The following are its special abilities: +10% City Attack; +25 Jungle Defense. This unit is upgradeable to the Maceman later on.


There are two main uses for the Jaguar Warrior. First, its resourceless nature makes it a good early rush unit (although the Aztecs don't start with mining, iron working is still just three short techs away, and you don't have to find, settle near, and hook up iron, which saves you a lot of time if you are planning an early rush (if your target has access to copper for axemen it's already going to be a challenge; if you give your target time to get city walls up you can forget about it). Second, its jungle bonus makes it a good defender in that terrain -- fill up on Woodsman promotions and you can end up with +75% jungle/+50% forest as well as the double-movement in those terrains, although a smart opponent (and the AI counts in this regard) will typically go around a fortified Woodsman II-promoted JagWar in jungle/forest tiles rather than attack it.


Chinese Cho-Ku-Nu (Archery Unit. Replaces the Standard Crossbowman):
6 Strength, 1 Movement, 60 Hammers
Machinery, Archery, and the Iron resource are required to construct the Cho-Ku-Nu. The Cho-Ku-Nu's special abilities include all of the following: 2 First Strikes; Causes Collateral Damage; +50% vs. Melee Units. The unit may be upgraded later on to either the Rifleman, or Grenadier.


A fun unit that starts with 2 first strikes (5-8 first strikes with all four drill promotions!) and the nice bonus of a decent amount of collateral damage (half as much collateral damage as catapults, with slightly less maximum damage). To be clear, this unit does not bombard city defenses like catapults can, it just causes damage to multiple units in the target stack. One of my favorite UUs, plus Qin has one of my favorite trait combos. :)


Egyptian War Chariot (Mounted Unit. Replaces the Standard Chariot):
5 Strength, 2 Movement, 25 Hammers
Before construction on the War Chariot can proceed, it requires The Wheel and Horses. The following are all of its unique abilities as the Egyptian Unique Unit: Immune to First Strikes; Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses; May Withdraw from combat if losing (20% chance). Since this unit may be constructed early, it also may be upgraded later on either to the Horse Archer or Knight.


This unit has a higher combat strength compared to the standard chariot, plus the extra bonus of ignoring first strikes, which makes them good at attacking archers. A very nice unit, but one which suffers from a relatively small window of usefulness, since most people will get archery relatively early for city defense, so you're really only one tech away from the superior horse archer unit.


English Redcoat (Gunpowder Unit. Replaces the Standard Rifleman):
16 Strength, 1 Movement, 110 Hammers
The Redcoat only requires the Rifling Technology to begin construction. All of the following are the unit's special abilities: +25% vs. Mounted Units; +25% vs. Gunpowder Units. The unit is also upgradeable to the Infantry which is available later on in the game.


The powerful Redcoat has a +2 combat strength compared to standard rifleman, but the extra +25% vs. gunpowder units makes this effectively a 20 strength unit, since most of the non-obsolete units it will encounter will be gunpowder units. In particular, this makes Redcoats superior to the normal rifle-killer, the Grenadier (which is an effective 18 strength against riflemen). A very solid unit, which is really only vulnerable to cannons in the industrial era.


French Musketeer (Gunpowder Unit. Replaces the Standard Musketman):
9 Strength, 2 Movement, 80 Hammers
This unit requires the Gunpowder Technology. The special abilities of the unit are simply that it has a movement of two instead of one (don't underestimate this!). It can later be upgraded to the Rifleman.


The early-industrial version of the Impi. With guerilla and/or woodsman promotions, can be a devastating pillager. The only thing that keeps this unit from being overpowered is that Musketmen in general are not all that formidable, since knights can be effective against them (in fact, pikemen are still better versus knights than muskets), and grenadiers at 12 strength are only one tech away from muskets.


German Panzer (Armored Unit. Replaces the Standard Tank):
28 Strength, 2 Movement, 120 Shields
Industrialism, Rifling, and the Oil resource are required for the tank's construction. Here are the unique abilities of the Panzer: Doesn't receive defensive bonuses; +50% vs. Armored Units; Starts out with Blitz promotion. The Modern Armor replaces the Panzer later on when available.


The "only" advantage this unit has over the standard tank is the +50% vs. armored units. Of course, that bonus is enough to leave the battlefield littered with the smouldering wreckage of opposing tanks.


Greek Phalanx (Melee Unit. Replaces the Standard Spearman):
5 Strength, 1 Movement, 35 Hammers
The unit requires the Hunting technology, and the Copper and Iron resources. The Phalanx's special abilities are as follows: +25% Hill Defense; +100% vs. Mounted Units. The Phalanx may be upgraded to the Pikeman.


A solid unit, the Greek Phalanx is the ultimate horse-killer, but are vulnerable to axemen (even if they are shock promoted, they are at a 6.25 to 7.5 disadvantage). But just as Xerxes discovered at Thermopylae, you don't want to meet these guys in the hills, particularly if they are guerilla-II-promoted (+55% hill defense).


Incan Quechua (Melee Unit. Replaces the Standard Warrior):
2 Strength, 1 Movement, 10 Hammers.
This unit does not require anything at all to be built - No Technologies, and no resources. The Quechua's Special abilities are: +25% City Defense; +100% vs. Archery Units. There are three upgradeable choices later on that this unit can be upgraded to. The Axeman, Maceman, or Spearman.


With the bonus against archers, this is the ultimate early cheese-rush unit. Spam Quechuas from your capital and stream them at a neighbor. Better hope you catch them by surprise though, because the counter to Quechuas is just spamming warriors to defend (much more cost effective than archers versus Quechuas, plus they get a 25% bonus to city defense). If you chose not to rush with them, they can still be useful as defenders, but you tend not to see the AI use archers on offense much.


Indian Fast Worker (Domestic/Non-combat Unit. Replaces the Standard Worker):
0 Strength, 3 Movement, 60 Hammers
The unit does not require any technologies or resources for its construction. The special ability of this unit is that it is fast (at 3 moves per turn). A note for Workers in general: Basically, AI improvements play a huge role in their automation. Partially, it is also because of more specific terrain improvements (meaning that if you don't have Iron connected to your trade network, the worker will build a Mine, not a Windmill on the only unconnected Iron resource inside your boundaries).


Surprisingly maligned in most of the posts I've read, the Indian Fast Worker is perhaps the most powerful UU in the game, with an essentially unlimited lifetime. Faster improvement of tiles (since they can move and improve tiles in the same turn where standard workers would waste a turn just on the move) makes a huge difference in early infrastructure as well as forest-chop-driven construction of wonders. If you're daring (and not on raging barbs) you might even try using some fast workers to explore -- they're faster than scouts! Plus, workers captured by India automatically become Fast Workers! (note the converse is true -- fast workers captured by other civs turn into normal workers)


Japanese Samurai (Melee Unit. Replaces the Standard Maceman):
8 Strength, 1 Move, 46 Hammers
The Samurai requires Civil Service, Machinery, and the Iron Resource. It's special abilities are: 2 First Strikes; +50% vs. Melee Units. The unit may is may be upgraded to the Rifleman or Grenadier depending on your choice.


The only bonus this unit gets is the aforementioned un-improveable-by-promotions first strikes. Bleh. But at least the animation is pretty cool.


Malinese Skirmisher (Archery Unit. Replaces the Standard Archer):
4 Strength, 1 Movement, 25 Hammers
The Malinese Skirmisher requires Archery only. Also, it's special abilities are as follows: 1-2 First Strikes; +50% City Defense; +25% Hill Defense. This Unique Unit is Upgradeable to the Longbowman or Crossbowman.


A decent UU, particularly good at city or hill defense, especially with the appropriate promotions. Has a good lifespan too, since longbows are quite a ways down the tech tree from archers. Also play a mean battle horn.


Mongolian Keshik (Mounted Unit. Replaces the Standard Horse Archer):
6 Strength, 2 Movement, 50 Hammers
The Keshik requires Horseback Riding, Archery and Horses for a resource. The unique abilities of this unique unit are: 1 First Strike; Doesn't receive defensive bonuses; Ignores Terrain Movement Costs; +50% Attack vs. Catapult. This unit is upgraded to Cavalry later on.


An excellent assault unit which can cut through forests, jungles, and hills effortlessly to descend upon unsuspecting cities. Use them in sneak attacks for best effect. Note neither keshiks nor horse archers get a base withdrawal chance, so I'd save those promotions for the combat line.


Persian Immortal (Mounted Unit. Replaces the Standard Chariot):
4 Strength, 2 Movement, 25 Hammers
The Immortal requires the Wheel Technology as well as a Horse Resource. The following are its unique abilities: Can withdraw from combat (30% Chance); +50% vs. Archery Units. The Immortal may be upgraded to either the Horse Archer or Knight.


The best retreater in the game, Immortals can be promoted up to a 60% withdrawal chance (historically accurate because Immortals were named for their rapid replaceability, not individual toughness). Note withdrawal is implemented as a last second save from what would otherwise be a killing blow by the defender, so this maximizes the damage units can do before they withdraw. I like these better than War Chariots just because so many of them can survive a losing battle then retreat to heal. 'Obsoleted' by the horse archer, although the latter has no base withdrawal.


Roman Praetorian (Melee Unit. Replaces the Standard Swordsman):
8 Strength, 1 Movement, 40 Hammers
Iron Working as well as the Iron resource are needed in order to construct the Praetorian. The Praetorian is unique because it is two strengths more powerful than the unit it replaces (the Swordsman), but yet, its cost is the same. This unit will later upgrade to the Maceman Melee Unit.


The BMOC (Big Men of CIV?), Roman Praetorians (or little 'prats' as I like to call them when someone else is about to crush me with them) are unmatched in the ancient era. Fortunately for the rest of us, axemen have a decent chance of standing up to them (7.5 vs 8) but if you are without metal, say goodbye (actually, this is true even if Rome isn't your enemy, as undoubedly someone with horses will come wipe you out).


Russian Cossack (Mounted Unit. Replaces the Standard Cavalry):
18 Strength, 2 Movement, 120 Hammers
The Cossack requires Military Tradition, Gunpowder, Horseback Riding, and a Horse resource. It's special abilities: Doesn't receive defensive bonuses; Can withdraw from combat (30% Chance); +50% vs. Cannon; +50% vs. Mounted Units. This unit upgrades to the Gunship.


The Russian Cossack has +3 strength over standard cavalry as well as a bonus +50% versus mounted unit, meaning it rules the field until armor arrives on the scene. Its improved strength means it stands a better chance against rifles which are usually the bane of cavalry. And it makes cannonfodder out of cannons. Oh, and cavalry upgrade to gunship helicopters 'cuz that's today's modern (air) cavalry. Hey, that's the rationale, didn't say I agreed with it. ;)


Spanish Conquistador (Mounted Unit. Replaces the Standard Knight):
10 Strength; 2 Movement; 90 Hammers
This unit requires Guilds, Horseback Riding as well as the Iron and Horse Resources. Finally, the special abilities of the Conquistador are: Immune to First Strikes; +50% vs. Melee Units. The Conquistador upgrades to Cavalry.


The 50% bonus versus Melee makes the Conquistador much less vulnerable to polearm-based units like spears (15 vs 8) and even pikes (15 vs 12). Unfortunately, this bonus is short-lived as muskets are only a tech away and while they can still be effective against them, they are no better than standard knights versus muskets.

dpaajones
Oct 25, 2005, 01:23 PM
Excellent analysis. I'm looking forward to using those Redcoats! :D

Whilst on the subject of units, do you know if there will be paratroopers or the ability to paratroop on CivIV??

drjones
Oct 25, 2005, 01:35 PM
I was all ready to grouse about uninformed folks running their mouth off about things they do not understand but it turns out you know what you are talking about! What a change of pace!

Thanks a lot for the great info!
-drjones

GIR
Oct 25, 2005, 02:01 PM
The "only" advantage this unit has over the standard tank is the +50% vs. armored units.

28+"50%"=42
what is the strength of an Modern Armor?

robcheng
Oct 25, 2005, 02:12 PM
I think the Modern Armor is 40, but IIRC it has first strikes and does more collateral damage than Panzers. But yes, Panzers can still hold their own versus Modern Armors, but their lower base strength means they will really get chewed up by gunships!

GIR
Oct 25, 2005, 02:18 PM
thx!!
next question :) :
what is the bonus for gunship against tanks??

ainwood
Oct 25, 2005, 02:22 PM
Rob - Great stuff! I'll move it to strategy & tips - not quite a strategy article, but some great analysis that we don't want to lose in the thread-rush.

JavalTigar
Oct 25, 2005, 02:23 PM
I thought the Indian Fast work just moves faster NOT works faster.

Civ rules doesn't mention any faster working just that it has a movement of 3.

Ex Mudder
Oct 25, 2005, 02:26 PM
Since I did the one for civ3, I figured I do one for civ4 too, especially since CR was kind enough to post the stats so

Surprisingly maligned in most of the posts I've read, the Indian Fast Worker is perhaps the most powerful UU in the game, with an essentially unlimited lifetime. 50% faster improvement of tiles (effectively even more, since they can move and improve tiles in the same turn where standard workers would waste a turn just on the move) makes a huge difference in early infrastructure as well as forest-chop-driven construction of wonders. Plus, workers captured by India automatically become Fast Workers! (note the converse is true -- fast workers captured by other civs turn into normal workers)


Question: If I cut down a forest as an industiral civ, do I get 20 or 30 hammers added to the wonder? Do I get 25 hammers if it's a building under Organized Religion or with a forge? 40 hammers if it's a favored building?

Or does everyone get the same 20 hammers per forest?

robcheng
Oct 25, 2005, 03:07 PM
I thought the Indian Fast work just moves faster NOT works faster.

Civ rules doesn't mention any faster working just that it has a movement of 3.

You're right; I got confused about the difference between movement rate and worker rate. I'll edit my post. Thanks.

robcheng
Oct 25, 2005, 03:56 PM
Question: If I cut down a forest as an industiral civ, do I get 20 or 30 hammers added to the wonder? Do I get 25 hammers if it's a building under Organized Religion or with a forge? 40 hammers if it's a favored building?

Or does everyone get the same 20 hammers per forest?

I'm pretty sure IND civs get the bonus on all rushes: forest chops, slavery pop rushing, great engineers, etc. There's no overflow shammers in these cases, though. :)

Ex Mudder
Oct 25, 2005, 04:44 PM
I'm pretty sure IND civs get the bonus on all rushes: forest chops, slavery pop rushing, great engineers, etc. There's no overflow shammers in these cases, though. :)

Shammers? :lol:

Can you change to Judaism and Organised religion on the same turn? Or is it 1 turn of anarchy for each?

Greek Plunder
Oct 25, 2005, 06:04 PM
Do you actually have the game, or are you basing these answers and comments on speculation and stuff that's already been said?

JavalTigar
Oct 25, 2005, 06:30 PM
Forestry can go towards Wonders now!!! When the heck was that posted!

Corbeau
Oct 25, 2005, 06:36 PM
This is a nice analysis, very helpful. Nice job Rob!

Gnarfflinger
Oct 27, 2005, 01:03 AM
I noticed that you said that some units have a limited window of usefulness. Couldn't you just research other stuff while your UU is available to extend this window?

CitizenCain
Oct 27, 2005, 06:45 AM
Surprisingly maligned in most of the posts I've read, the Indian Fast Worker is perhaps the most powerful UU in the game, with an essentially unlimited lifetime. Faster improvement of tiles (since they can move and improve tiles in the same turn where standard workers would waste a turn just on the move) makes a huge difference in early infrastructure as well as forest-chop-driven construction of wonders. If you're daring (and not on raging barbs) you might even try using some fast workers to explore -- they're faster than scouts! Plus, workers captured by India automatically become Fast Workers! (note the converse is true -- fast workers captured by other civs turn into normal workers)

I didn't actually check to see if the Indian worker has a bonus to tile improvement time, but I'm pretty it doesn't. And the extra move isn't very useful, normal workers move at a rate of 2, so they can also move and improve on the same turn. Though, I guess the Indian fast worker does have the ability to move onto rough terrain and improve it on the same time (a nominally useful ability, hardly worth mentioning.)

Furthermore, using these guys as scouts would be... VERY unsmart, as a) scouts are MUCH, MUCH cheaper and don't pause city growth while being built, and b) scouts have a longer line of sight (not to mention a combat defense score), so they won't get chewed up when they end their turn on a tile next to a panther.

Yeah, this is based on having played the game. So I think it's safe to say the Indian fast worker isn't a very useful UU. It was much mailgned for a reason.

robcheng
Oct 27, 2005, 09:08 AM
I noticed that you said that some units have a limited window of usefulness. Couldn't you just research other stuff while your UU is available to extend this window?

Yeah, but can you convince all of your opponents to research other stuff to so as not to obsolete your UU with better defenders? ;)

Gato Loco
Oct 27, 2005, 01:41 PM
The 50% bonus versus Melee makes the Conquistador much less vulnerable to polearm-based units like spears (15 vs 8) and even pikes (15 vs 12). Unfortunately, this bonus is short-lived as muskets are only a tech away and while they can still be effective against them, they are no better than standard knights versus muskets.

Well historically they were used against primitive civs without gunpowder, so maybe that's the best use for them - send a few to beat up a small primitive civ on another continent.

APushkin
Oct 27, 2005, 03:34 PM
Is it possible to upgrade regular units into UU once you have all the prerequisites? Or Does Cossac still break the horseman upgrade chain as in Civ3?

Suki
Oct 27, 2005, 07:12 PM
I'm less enamored with the first strikes for this unit (and similarly for the Samurai UU) mostly because I find it frustrating to not be able to improve upon them with additional promotions

right... wouldn't the soloution to this be to have it start with the promotion 'Drill I' and set 'Drill I' as the only prequesite for 'Drill II'.. so you could only go up the drill tree if you were an archery/artillery unit OR you started on the tree..

would be easy to mod into a scenario.. but yeah, 's too bad it's not in the core game, maybe the first patch. either way I like what I've seen so far.

blindside
Oct 27, 2005, 07:26 PM
These Indian fast workers sound like fun!

gakkun
Oct 27, 2005, 07:39 PM
hmm..thanks for the analysis but they sound a bit like zhi(3) shang(4) tan(2) bing(1), if you know what I mean. :)

Gnarfflinger
Oct 28, 2005, 12:49 AM
Yeah, but can you convince all of your opponents to research other stuff to so as not to obsolete your UU with better defenders? ;)

Actually, where possible, I was thinking delay either until you had nothing else to research or until they had defenders that erased that edge. Perhaps research up to the tech that obseletes your UU, but then go for other stuff while your UU is available, then go up when you need the next unit...

bugmenot17
Nov 09, 2005, 10:10 PM
Thanks, very helpful

Azragaul
Nov 09, 2005, 10:22 PM
Some UUs you can upgrade too. I know for sure about Cossacks bacause playing russians I will start with lots of horse archers knowing that I can upgrade them when I get Military Tradition...and boy do I beeline for that one quickly.

Underseer
Nov 09, 2005, 10:33 PM
I love fast workers, and can't understand what some people have against them. I prefer peaceful/builder games, so for me military UUs are near to useless. The fast worker isn't.

Shillen
Nov 09, 2005, 10:54 PM
With the bonus against archers, this is the ultimate early cheese-rush unit. Spam Quechuas from your capital and stream them at a neighbor. Better hope you catch them by surprise though, because the counter to Quechuas is just spamming warriors to defend (much more cost effective than archers versus Quechuas, plus they get a 25% bonus to city defense). If you chose not to rush with them, they can still be useful as defenders, but you tend not to see the AI use archers on offense much.

On the higher difficulty levels the barbs send a ton of archers at you very early on and you'll be praising this unit the entire time.

GoRy
Nov 09, 2005, 11:21 PM
Personally I find the redcoat one of the most useful units in the game. Being so much stronger than the equivalent due to bonuses and with it being in a time period when industrialism really comes into play, They're world conquerors. Actually if memory serves in my last game I mad 146 of them and managed domination in about 50 turns :/ Very very nice.

Greencardman
Nov 09, 2005, 11:23 PM
I also think the indian fast worker is pretty cool. Yes, you don't get much of a bonus when you're moving to the grassland tile next door, but having three movement points mean you save a turn for each hill or forest (since you can move onto it and imporve it in the same turn). Regular workers can't do that on hills and forests, they end their turn when they move onto one. Now if you usually imporve a lot of hills, thats quite a few turns you save. Another thing is, you get to go further. Not all the tiles you want to imporve are next to each other. The indian fast worker can cross two flat tiles and still improve in the same turn. So you don't jut save a turn on hills and forests only.

Heroes
Nov 09, 2005, 11:36 PM
I also think the indian fast worker is pretty cool. Yes, you don't get much of a bonus when you're moving to the grassland tile next door, but having three movement points mean you save a turn for each hill or forest (since you can move onto it and imporve it in the same turn). Regular workers can't do that on hills and forests, they end their turn when they move onto one. Now if you usually imporve a lot of hills, thats quite a few turns you save. Another thing is, you get to go further. Not all the tiles you want to imporve are next to each other. The indian fast worker can cross two flat tiles and still improve in the same turn. So you don't jut save a turn on hills and forests only.

All these are true, but how big deals are these? Aren't there some time your workers have almost nothing to do? OK, in another sense you can save 1-2 workers than other civs, but that's just 60-120 hammers, too trivial comparing what you can gain from Cho-Ko-Nu, Quechua, Redcoat, or Praetorian.

tera
Nov 10, 2005, 01:32 AM
All these are true, but how big deals are these? Aren't there some time your workers have almost nothing to do? OK, in another sense you can save 1-2 workers than other civs, but that's just 60-120 hammers, too trivial comparing what you can gain from Cho-Ko-Nu, Quechua, Redcoat, or Praetorian.

On the contrary, if you are playing a peaceful game without any fights, what can you gain from those military units? Anyway, it boils down to how you are playing the game.

Heroes
Nov 10, 2005, 02:00 AM
On the contrary, if you are playing a peaceful game without any fights, what can you gain from those military units? Anyway, it boils down to how you are playing the game.

Unless you click the option "all peace", you still need military to deter AIs to declare war to you ...

Gufnork
Nov 10, 2005, 06:41 AM
Immortals should be expanded on a little, I've fallen in love with the little fellas. It's true that Horse Archers are just around the corner, but I prefer Immortals. What you do is give them Flanking I and II. Now they have 60% withdrawal chance and immunity to first strikes. Head for your opponents Copper (if he has it) and pillage it, then make mass assaults against your opponents cities. Even if your opponent has better odds, your units are much more likely to survive the battle, meaning you will win by having less attrition.

My top three UU's are:

1. Praerorians (almost unbeatable in the ancient age)
2. Red Coats (the only gunpowder unit that can wage war efficiently)
3. Immortals (for above reasons)

I think I'll try to do the same with Cossacks as I did with Immortals, win by attrition. They might be up there as well.

Shillen
Nov 10, 2005, 06:44 AM
Unless you click the option "all peace", you still need military to deter AIs to declare war to you ...


Hah, it takes a considerable effort to get the AI to declare war on you in Civ4. I'm almost always by far the weakest in military (unless I'm going for a military win) and it's still rare as all hell for the AI to pick a fight with me.

ipris
Nov 10, 2005, 08:20 AM
A good read, and analysis. thanks.

Varelse
Nov 10, 2005, 11:24 AM
Hah, it takes a considerable effort to get the AI to declare war on you in Civ4. I'm almost always by far the weakest in military (unless I'm going for a military win) and it's still rare as all hell for the AI to pick a fight with me.

Not if you are next to Ghengis Kahn!

yccnorth
Nov 10, 2005, 12:35 PM
Hah, it takes a considerable effort to get the AI to declare war on you in Civ4. I'm almost always by far the weakest in military (unless I'm going for a military win) and it's still rare as all hell for the AI to pick a fight with me.

Lucky you. I played 4 games in Noble setting so far, the AI declared war on me in 2 of them. I made a mental note to shore up my military in early games just so I can fend off the AI's demand. Granted, I don't yield to AIs, not at Noble anyway.

Mujadaddy
Nov 10, 2005, 03:29 PM
On the Immortals and War Chariots "limited window" --- Until you get WELL into the medieval period, there's NO REASON for a Persian or Egyptian player to waste Beakers researching Horseback riding...

YES your opponents might have Horse Archers, but you've got something 1) MUCH cheaper and 2) almost as good ... meanwhile you didn't "waste time" on an Ancient dead-end research of HBriding...