*Dom Pedro II walks in, takes out the ol' 3DS Max and blows some dust off it. He takes out his old stuff from the Civ3 Creation forums and sets up shop here.*

Well... now begins the long and arduous task of taking all of the stuff that many of us, myself included, spent years working on for Civ3 and convert it to Civ4.

I had been hoping some months ago to get a jump on things, but without the game it was a bit tricky.

Well, as one of the first modellers to hop on the Civ4 bandwagon, I figured I'd get the ball rolling...... post here any suggestions you guys might have on units you'd like to see done.

Post a pic too if you can. If you can't find one, draw it if you can.

two from the last game I love building were modern infantry

http://www.tomstockton.us/tanks_pictures/ghq/nato/ghq-n__3-c1.jpg

and

guerrillas as in civ3

"Alien" multiunit from "Starship troopers" and/or "Alien" multiunit from "Aliens 2"

And multiunit "Mobile Infantry" from "Starship Troopers" and/or multiunit "Federal Marine" from "Aliens 2"

No one said this would be easy..

any chance to create these units in Poser 5.0?

any chance to create these units in Poser 5.0?

No. I can almost guarantee that it won't work with Poser 5. However, Poser models can be used, reduced in polygon size, and then exported to a program such as 3D Studio Max.

Somebody more experienced than me though is going to have to determine just what needs to be done to create a model that the gamebryo engine can use and understand.

No. I can almost guarantee that it won't work with Poser 5. However, Poser models can be used, reduced in polygon size, and then exported to a program such as 3D Studio Max.

Somebody more experienced than me though is going to have to determine just what needs to be done to create a model that the gamebryo engine can use and understand.

It is not bad news totaly, we could use Poser models used for Civ3 units to be the base of Civ4 units created in 3d Studio Max :D

It is not bad news totaly, we could use Poser models used for Civ3 units to be the base of Civ4 units created in 3d Studio Max :D


That is my plan, yes. Hence the reason I've never gotten rid of my models for my Civ3 units.

That is my plan, yes. Hence the reason I've never gotten rid of my models for my Civ3 units.

me too. the same for LHs and other creations,. But first I must learn how 3d Max works :lol:

two from the last game I love building were modern infantry

http://www.tomstockton.us/tanks_pictures/ghq/nato/ghq-n__3-c1.jpg

and

guerrillas as in civ3

do you mean Balou's modern Infantry i loved those ones, but I could also go for te firaxis ww1 infantry and ww2 units (but they might have tat in the scenario)

Zeppelins! (http://sped2work.tripod.com/zep480.jpg) WW I bomb zeps would be most logical, but something more exotic, like those US Navy aircraft carrier zeps (http://www.airships.net/zepakrn.htm) wouldn't be bad either.

Some thoughts:
A lot of people have not top-of the line computers. So I'd advise unit creators to use low poly and small texture models if possible. Or even better make high poly and low poly models for the same unit.

To be honest, we really need to know the game "standard" on texture resolutions and poly counts. From looking at other (RTS/FPS) games, the units will probably have several LODs (Levels of detail), which can be set in the graphics options of the game. These LODs may be able to be generated in-game (killing polies from a hi-poly model), or they may have to be done with the unit. Often you get a lower LOD when zoomed out further (so you can see more, but it's so small you wouldn't be able to see the removed detail)

There is a program somewhere out there (I forget it's name), by NVidia, which can be used to lower poly counts of high poly models, and convert the excess polies into bump maps (which I'm not sure if Civ can use). That would probably be good for creating different LODs.

It is also likely that the textures with have several different resolutions. This will almost certainly be done in game, with the highest resolution being the one the creator makes.

To get some standards we're either going to have to decompile some models, or find some way of testing it (or just ask Firaxis - I think they'd tell us). Textures will probably be pretty easy to decomplile, and probably will be 256*256 or 512*512 anyway.

EDIT: And just out of last nights chat

[20:08] <@Chieftess>Â <Gaias> What kind of 3d application whould be used for unit creation?

[20:09] <+SorenJohnson> Gaias: Studio Max
Looks like unit making has turned expensive...

the V2 rockets would a cool unit to mod in maybe as another UU for Germany.


- I dont think I need to post a pic Im pretty sure everyone knows what they are and what they look like. if not very easy to find a pic.

Helicopter transport

Its really bugged me in the past about lack of integration of carrier, with helicopters, and foot soldiers.

I think we need chinooks choppers as well.

Most of the units on the wish list for my future mod are ones I KNOW people will create. For instance, I want some of the Alpha Centauri units: the Needlejet, the Former, and the Mindworm, specifically. I want a few fantasy units (like a good Dragon), and a few ones I know people are planning (the Aliens from, well, Aliens). But then there are some wierd ones I want:
> A high-tech Elf with ornate armor and an energy sword.
> An armored Dwarf with a big laser chaingun.
> The Deathclaw, from Fallout, shrunk down to be a bit smaller than human-sized.
> A Bolo. (The gigantic tanks from the books).
> A stealthy VTOL attack plane that uses plasma weapons.
> Two near-future naval vessels; one stealthy missile boat, one heavy submersible transport.
> A good Zombie worker unit that doesn't look quite so low-tech. Basically, modern "reanimated corpse" instead of brain-eating Undead.
> A powered worker unit, like the loader suit from Aliens.
> A mobile shield generator. Imagine the Gungan shield thing from Episode I, mounted on a light antigrav vehicle.
> A doppelganger unit. It'll be a spy unit that has some combat abilities as well, so it'd need to have all kinds of animations, but the default appearance would just be a Man In Black sort of suit-n-tie. (The T-1000 from Terminator 2 would also work.)

And the tough one:
> The Singularity missile (aka Planet Buster), a next-generation ICBM. Instead of the usual mushroom cloud, it creates an expanding black sphere (think Akira). When it clears, there's nothing left in the square underneath; no units, no cities, no terrain, no fallout, just an empty wasteland square that can never, ever be improved. This requires some coding, but I need the explosion animation.

Paratroopers!

I would like my Roman Legions back!!!

A laurel crown to anyone who can do this! :)

To be honest, we really need to know the game "standard" on texture resolutions and poly counts. From looking at other (RTS/FPS) games, the units will probably have several LODs (Levels of detail), which can be set in the graphics options of the game. These LODs may be able to be generated in-game (killing polies from a hi-poly model), or they may have to be done with the unit. Often you get a lower LOD when zoomed out further (so you can see more, but it's so small you wouldn't be able to see the removed detail)

There is a program somewhere out there (I forget it's name), by NVidia, which can be used to lower poly counts of high poly models, and convert the excess polies into bump maps (which I'm not sure if Civ can use). That would probably be good for creating different LODs.

It is also likely that the textures with have several different resolutions. This will almost certainly be done in game, with the highest resolution being the one the creator makes.

To get some standards we're either going to have to decompile some models, or find some way of testing it (or just ask Firaxis - I think they'd tell us). Textures will probably be pretty easy to decomplile, and probably will be 256*256 or 512*512 anyway.

EDIT: And just out of last nights chat


Looks like unit making has turned expensive...

Shouldn't be too much trouble to determine what the average poly count and texture resolution is once we start pulling out the models from the program files :)

I request multiple great people. For example: I dont want every great sci to look the same. maybe hv like 4-5 diff looks for each great person type.

how about iron teeth like units, ones like they used in either WW1 or WW2 to stop tanks from passing.

Maybe different levels of missionaries - like "Cardinals" with more influence, etc.

Id like to see a an mobile arty and an chinnook heilcoter transport and paratroopers and sam missiles batteries and cruise missles and bombs, lots of bombs to kill people with and and and...

And i wouldnt mind seeing the game in my grubby little hands. sigh

A martian tripod, kinda like this one http://www.monstersandcritics.com/artman/uploads/jw3.jpg

To be honest, we really need to know the game "standard" on texture resolutions and poly counts. From looking at other (RTS/FPS) games, the units will probably have several LODs (Levels of detail), which can be set in the graphics options of the game. These LODs may be able to be generated in-game (killing polies from a hi-poly model), or they may have to be done with the unit. Often you get a lower LOD when zoomed out further (so you can see more, but it's so small you wouldn't be able to see the removed detail)

There is a program somewhere out there (I forget it's name), by NVidia, which can be used to lower poly counts of high poly models, and convert the excess polies into bump maps (which I'm not sure if Civ can use). That would probably be good for creating different LODs.

It is also likely that the textures with have several different resolutions. This will almost certainly be done in game, with the highest resolution being the one the creator makes.

To get some standards we're either going to have to decompile some models, or find some way of testing it (or just ask Firaxis - I think they'd tell us). Textures will probably be pretty easy to decomplile, and probably will be 256*256 or 512*512 anyway.

EDIT: And just out of last nights chat


Looks like unit making has turned expensive...


When you say expensive, how expensive? What would a complete software suite capable of creating units costs? I was seraching around on the web with little success finding a relaible cost.

When you say expensive, how expensive? What would a complete software suite capable of creating units costs? I was seraching around on the web with little success finding a relaible cost.

We are talking thousands of dollar's here. Of course if you were a student you could get these programs for significantly less. But you are still looking at playing several hundrend to thousand dollars. Last time I seen a price on 3ds Max was $3,195.00 USD and price for Maya $6,999.00 USD. These ofcourse are just rough estimates from a site I trust 3D Buzz (http://www.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/sv_dl_tr.php)

Good question! The latest version of 3DS Max on the autodesk website is selling for £3,166.63. That's alot. Alot more than I've got at least.

I may look into seeing if my university has a copy which I can legally use - if not I can buy the student version (being a student, who, fortunetely is studying a course on their list) - £75 for 2 years.

EDIT: Looked at 3D buzz - here is a thread on the subject: http://www.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=117964

We are talking thousands of dollar's here. Of course if you were a student you could get these programs for significantly less. But you are still looking at playing several hundrend to thousand dollars. Last time I seen a price on 3ds Max was $3,195.00 USD and price for Maya $6,999.00 USD. These ofcourse are just rough estimates from a site I trust 3D Buzz (http://www.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/sv_dl_tr.php)

YOUR KIDDING RIGHT?
does this mean that no-one will ever be able to call themselves
"an ameteur civ4 unit modder?"
surely there is a free or divided by a thousand alterantiv here?
I may as well just pack up all my dreams of unit creation in a sack and throw it off a bridge. :cry: :cry: :suicide:

Don't worry... yet!

There are a number of things that could make it so you don't have to spend insane amounts of money.

Somebody could come up with a way of importing units into Civ 4, somehow, using a free program, or maybe Firaxis will release some clever widgit which lets us do it for free (for HL2 you could use Softimage - but only for importing things into HL2).

There are of course much less reputable and quite illegal ways to get your hands on said software. I won't go into detail because, well, most forums don't allow discussion of it.

I'm not going illegal and I have a budget of £0.00, so no unit modding for me, only requests. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
OK, got over it now. I suppose I may think about the SDK, btu as I said, I would only ever want to be an ammeuteure, no thousands of dollars, no organised crime, just happy modding.

Well Dom my friend, my request would be that you convert that fine Maccabee unit you created for Civ III.


On a sidenote: sounds like unit making has gotten very expensive.

Try to use the less expensive 3D programs or even the freeware ones, and export your models to 3DS. Then, get to know someone real well who has 3DS Max, they can finish off the unit and export it for you. That is, if Firaxis releases an exporter for CivIV to use in 3DS Max.

Maybe different levels of missionaries - like "Cardinals" with more influence, etc.

Now that I have a little more time, lemme hash this out fully.

1 - I'm not a modder, but perhaps a simple color change or texture modification could be enough of a distinction between unit types, so this change might be more possible than something more outlandish.

2 - Unit types could follow this sort of range:
-Religious Leader (1): Like "Pope" for Christianity, these would be created as units once you have built your religion's temple and are only available to the founding civ. You only get one (sort of like a special person) and its uses would be; dramatically increasing influence in a target city while ALSO building a Christian (or other) temple in that city without sacrificing himself. He could sacrifice himself to give culture to a city (establish a Papal Residence), or build "The Vatican" which can be a world wonder, etc. This wouldn't really be overpowered considering there could be more than one, and he'd have to be kill-able (killing the leader would def piss off the respective religion at something like a -6 "You killed our religious leader!" level)
-Religious Agents (3): Let's call these using the Christian example "Cardinals." Instead of spreading religion in other cities, they eliminate it. If you use them on your own towns to say, get rid of Islam, they are not sacrificed. If you use them in your opponents cities, they are. Having one of these in a city would prevent foreign religions from gaining any influence there at all (alternative to Theocracy).
-Religious Settlers (5): Continuing the Christian example, these would be "Bishops" and can act either as settlers or traditional missionaries. Any city they found will automatically have that religion's influence and a Temple built with it. He can be sacrificed in foreign cities to build a Temple to that religion within it.
-Religious Missionaries (10): These are the units in game now.

3 - Unit Promotions for these survivable units can range from increasing their movement rate, to the amount of influence they are able to add/remove.

For all this to make sense, temples have to do something that benefits the religion's founder in a significant, but not overpowering way. I'm not sure how this would affect game balance at all, I just would like for religion and conversion to be more useful as a "weapon" than it currently is.

Remember that some of us already have 3D Studio Max... so we can help at least... but there's also plenty of stuff that other people can do.

1) People with other 3D programs can create models for those with 3DS Max to convert.

2) People with 2D graphics experience can retexture what models there are and whatever ones there will be.

I'd like to see some U.S. civil war era units. Union and CSA infantry, cavalry, ships, and artillery pieces would be really cool.

Try to use the less expensive 3D programs or even the freeware ones, and export your models to 3DS. Then, get to know someone real well who has 3DS Max, they can finish off the unit and export it for you. That is, if Firaxis releases an exporter for CivIV to use in 3DS Max.

that sounds good. How much would it cost all together? (to get upto the stage of uploading them all to this site to ask someone to download them and finsih them off). How much control over the finished graphic would I have anyway (like the texture, animations etc.) just the model?

that sounds good. How much would it cost all together? (to get upto the stage of uploading them all to this site to ask someone to download them and finsih them off). How much control over the finished graphic would I have anyway (like the texture, animations etc.) just the model?
It could cost as little as £0.00. You'll almost certainly be able to do the textures yourself, however I don't think you'd be able to do the animation.

for anyone looking to design 3d meshes without expensive software:

http://www.blender3d.org/

you can download scripts to import and export max file format.

Hey Dom, I might as well make my first request of Civ4 the same as Civ3. Do you have any interest in making another Numidian Horseman? (With javelin throwing attack this time? ;) ).

Just ask and I'll post a picture :)

for anyone looking to design 3d meshes without expensive software:

http://www.blender3d.org/

you can download scripts to import and export max file format.
Or you could just get openFX - www.openfx.org

blender and openFX look complex and scary to newbie me.