When I started a game, the terrain was completely black, even where I had units. When I loaded the World Editor, the terrain was illuminated, but it became black again when I closed it. In a "Future" start, the terrain was visible, but not bright.

Does you gfx card have T&L?

Same Problem as above. And yes, I do have T&L.

The talking heads are invisible, except for a floating grin...

And dark terrain, as others have experienced.

I have a NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 64 Pro.

I don't mind running out and getting a new graphics card, but I'd like to know it'll do the trick first. Anyone have advice?

thanks!

The talking heads are invisible, except for a floating grin...

And dark terrain, as others have experienced.

I have a NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 64 Pro.

I don't mind running out and getting a new graphics card, but I'd like to know it'll do the trick first. Anyone have advice?

thanks!

I can't tell you if it will fix the problem you are having but, that card doesn't support T&L. So that might be the cause...

Try 3D Analyze if you don't have T&L. It's a free app, just run it with "emulate TnL caps" checked and let us know if it worked.

Link: http://www.tommti-systems.de/go.html?http://www.tommti-systems.com/main-Dateien/files.html

3DA had no apparent effect. Still, thanks for the tip on my graphics card. I'll head off to comp usa. Let you know in an hour whether it works.

3DA had no apparent effect. Still, thanks for the tip on my graphics card. I'll head off to comp usa. Let you know in an hour whether it works.

have the exact same problem.

cheshire cat floating heads that are just grins and eyes

terrain is completely black, only shows units, resources, and forests and things like that, nothing else

sony vaio t-250

I am having the same issues on two laptops with Radeon 7500 cards. 3DAnalyze does no good, as it will not launch the game from there. :mad:

have the exact same problem.

cheshire cat floating heads that are just grins and eyes

terrain is completely black, only shows units, resources, and forests and things like that, nothing else

sony vaio t-250

This laptop has an Intel 855GME chipset that handles graphics among other things, to my knowledge it does not support T&L

Cheshire cat is very apt. I have the same problem, and yet I ran Pirates like a charm

I was able to install and run on a machine with a HT P4 3.0/915 chipset and embedded video. The rendering now appears correct, but the videos do not display.

I too was able to run Pirates on the two Radeon 7500 laptops with no issues.

Pirates! is not the standard. Civ IV uses the updated engine, now T&L is required.

Same problem with laptop with Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controller.

I didn't even get top of the line... ended up getting a Nvidia GeForce 6200. Downloaded the latest driver from their web site (didn't use the CD that came with it of course). Anyway, works like a charm now. I didn't even realize that I was having trouble with the opening movie, which I can now see. And, no dark terrain and no cheshire cat. ;-)

Sandy

same problem with an intel 82865G, 96 megs ram. Problems with opening moviem dark terrain, chshire cat Sid.

I too am having the same problem. Mobility Radeon (yes, it does have T&L).

Yeah I have a 2.66 GHz, 512 MB Ram, but an Integrated Graphics card and I am having the same problems. I figured that if my comp could run Rome Total War and its 3-D terrain and engine then I could run Civ 4. I am wrong :(

I'm having the same problem. I posted screen shots in another thread here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3214694#post3214694

My computer is AMD 3200+, 512 MB of RAM, and GeForce 4 MX which is a 64 MB card with T&L.

Any ideas?

This laptop has an Intel 855GME chipset that handles graphics among other things, to my knowledge it does not support T&L

Same problem, chipset 828 - it does not support T&L. Enough people are reporting that it's not T&L, though, that I have to question whether that's the sole problem.

It runs fine on my husband's computer, though - and he's fairly certain his does support T&L. He can run out and get a new video card, though - I can't, due to this being a laptop. Using his computer is not an option for me playing because, well, he'll be playing. We bought two copies for a reason :mad:.

I have the exact same problem. The terrain simply will not display: not in the game screen, not in the city screen, not anywhere but the highest zoom-out level. I can determine what's where, but that's all.

In addition, the sound on the opening movie is interrupted regularly, and the world-creation images are extremely jerky.

I should have the right hardware to make this game work. What's wrong?

I've been playing around with some things and I've gotten things to look a little better. Well, actually a lot better but only in a small area. As you can see in the screenshot below, there is a patch in the upper right corner that looks great. I can even scroll around, and the patch moves with my scrolling. Any ideas yet on how to make the whole screen look so nice?

How'd you make that work?

Unfortunatly, I'm not sure. And it really isn't playable yet anyway.

I'm having the same problem. I posted screen shots in another thread here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3214694#post3214694

My computer is AMD 3200+, 512 MB of RAM, and GeForce 2 MX which is a 64 MB card with T&L.

Any ideas?

Like an enormous number of other people, you have a video card which doesn't have hardware T&L, but for some reason you think otherwise.

The game should simply refuse to run or display a splash screen warning it probably won't run properly due to insufficient hardware, which would at least prevent this sort of issue.

Shoot. Well, I did get the world builder mode to work. Everything looks great there. Is there any hope, or will I be buying a new graphics card. And if so any reccomendations that will work without breaking the bank?

Shoot. Well, I did get the world builder mode to work. Everything looks great there. Is there any hope, or will I be buying a new graphics card. And if so any reccomendations that will work without breaking the bank?

Check out the thread in tech support called "Video card Q&A."

There are loads of video cards for $50 - $75 which ought to run this game just fine. For example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102408

Anything that's: Radeon starting with "9" or "X" will run the game (eg, X700). Anything that's Geforce starting with 5, 6, or 7 will run the game (eg, Geforce 6600). These cards: Radeon 9100, 9200, X300 and Geforce 5200, 6200 are "budget" cards which you would be well advised to avoid at the cost of a ten or twenty bucks extra. A Geforce 4Ti (and even a Geforce 3) but NOT a Geforce 4MX will run the game and you may be able to find one dirt cheap online somewhere.

Note the large number of posts suggesting there may be bugs in this game preventing Radeon cards from working properly, even cards which should be more than powerful enough.

Like an enormous number of other people, you have a video card which doesn't have hardware T&L, but for some reason you think otherwise.

The game should simply refuse to run or display a splash screen warning it probably won't run properly due to insufficient hardware, which would at least prevent this sort of issue.

GeForce 4 MX DOES have T&L. Just read it in the card features at the nVidia website. I'm concerned because I own a GeForce 4 MX 420...

EDIT: Some people got it working with a GeForce 4, although a minor graphic glitch has appeared: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=133139

Any card with the name Geforce supports Tnl. The Geforce 256 was this first card to support it.

Same problem with laptop with Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controller.
The game should simply refuse to run or display a splash screen warning it probably won't run properly due to insufficient hardware, which would at least prevent this sort of issue.
This is not good :(. Well I am going to hold off buying this game untill I get a new laptop. Its sad to see Fraxis making us buy new computers or video cards, Its almost like they just only want people who have a high end computer to play this game :mad:.

Same problem with laptop with Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controller.

I have the same problem and the same system

The good news is that some freaky interaction between the Fog and the tilesets means that, with enough playing time, it becomes possible to see the terrain. The game can be played in such a state, particularly if you turn on the tile-bonus markers.

The bad news is that the Fog is messed up. Also, clearing a forest gave a huge amount of production for no obvious reason.

As was noted somewhere else on the forum, even for people with the "dark screen" the mods work perfectly. Also, after playing for a few turns, a corner of the screen becomes visible (as shown in the screen shot above). I have tried both of these myself and had success. Not to mention that all other graphics, movies, animations, everything works fine. This means that the "dark screen" problem can not be due to a bad graphics card, but rather coding that isn't completely compatible with particular systems. So, it seems like this must be a software patchable problem. What can we do to help and encourage Firaxis create a patch as quickly as possible?

What can we do to help and encourage Firaxis create a patch as quickly as possible?

When in trouble or in doubt
Run in circles, scream and shout?

I didn't even get top of the line... ended up getting a Nvidia GeForce 6200. Downloaded the latest driver from their web site (didn't use the CD that came with it of course). Anyway, works like a charm now. I didn't even realize that I was having trouble with the opening movie, which I can now see. And, no dark terrain and no cheshire cat. ;-)

Sandy

That's wonderful that you got it to work but some of us may be in college and had a hard enough time finding the money to buy the game by itself...much less a new video card to go with it.

Everyone should just relax because if they want to sell more than a few thousand games then they will have to fix this huge problem.
There is an entire audience out there that will just return this game for a full refund after they realize it doesn't work and they won't spend the hours we are, to search around on the net, for a fix. So they lose probably around 100,000+ unit sales.
There is also the group that will search for the fix, but if that "fix" is to go buy a new card then there goes another 50,000+ units they would have sold.

Oh and - Radeon 7500 with newest omega drivers, game runs ok but I have the black terrain / alice in wonderland cat problem.

I am becoming more and more convinced that this is not a T&L problem. I can run the American Revolution scenario just fine (but not a couple of other scenario that I tried). The terrain renders fine in WorldBuilder. I could not, however, EXIT out of WorldBuilder to see if the terrain came back in the regular world.

I can't remember who mentioned the American Revolution scenario working, but if you can tolerate playing scenarios (I can't), it's there.

Just in case anyone from Firaxis is actually reading these, I tried saving a game, exiting out of the app completely, and going back in (since the American Revolution scenario requires exiting out of the game and going back in to run), but the reload of the game still had the black terrain problem.

(this is a double post - i should have posted here in the first place probably)

see everything but the terrain and the leaders? here's what i did to fix it:

1) start a game.
2) found a city.
3) save the game
3) retire and look at the map. see your city? figure out where the center of the map is relative to your city.
4) load your game.
5) send a scout to explore the center of the map as seen on the retire screen.
6) as your scout uncovers tiles at the center of the map, tiles in your fog will be uncovered.

i managed to play an entire game to completion like this. i've tested it on tiny and standard maps for "great plains" and "continents".

since i can see everything fine once i've explored the appropriate area (although leaders are still messed up),this makes me think this is not a "T&L" issue, but rather a bug.

one simple fix would be to have an option to start the user in the center of the map. if you start there you don't have to deal with exploring the "fog".

can't believe they didn't test this on older systems.

-roger

I am becoming more and more convinced that this is not a T&L problem. I can run the American Revolution scenario just fine (but not a couple of other scenario that I tried). The terrain renders fine in WorldBuilder. I could not, however, EXIT out of WorldBuilder to see if the terrain came back in the regular world.

I can't remember who mentioned the American Revolution scenario working, but if you can tolerate playing scenarios (I can't), it's there.

Just in case anyone from Firaxis is actually reading these, I tried saving a game, exiting out of the app completely, and going back in (since the American Revolution scenario requires exiting out of the game and going back in to run), but the reload of the game still had the black terrain problem.
American Revolution Mod does not work for me. Still have Cheshire Grin/Dark Screen.

I can go into World Builder, and use reveal all tile mode - then I can see the tiles and play - but the graphics are still not right. In full out zoom I see no units or the circles with the icons pointing to them - but when I zoom back in they are there.

(this is a double post - i should have posted here in the first place probably)

see everything but the terrain and the leaders? here's what i did to fix it:

1) start a game.
2) found a city.
3) save the game
3) retire and look at the map. see your city? figure out where the center of the map is relative to your city.
4) load your game.
5) send a scout to explore the center of the map as seen on the retire screen.
6) as your scout uncovers tiles at the center of the map, tiles in your fog will be uncovered.

i managed to play an entire game to completion like this. i've tested it on tiny and standard maps for "great plains" and "continents".

since i can see everything fine once i've explored the appropriate area (although leaders are still messed up),this makes me think this is not a "T&L" issue, but rather a bug.

one simple fix would be to have an option to start the user in the center of the map. if you start there you don't have to deal with exploring the "fog".

can't believe they didn't test this on older systems.

-roger


can you please post your specs.

I just wanted to confirm that using world builder to reveal all tiles lets me play normally as well after that. Although this is a fine workaround for now, it takes away a big part of the game (exploration). Fortunatly, as previous posters have mentioned this is clearly a bug and not a hardware issue. Please get us a patch soon, Firiaxis!

merlin9784,

my specs are:

IBM Thinkpad R40
512 MB memory
ATI Radeon Mobility 7500 w/ 32 MB memory
Omega 2.6.75a driver

-roger

1) start a game.
2) found a city.
3) save the game
3) retire and look at the map. see your city? figure out where the center of the map is relative to your city.
4) load your game.
5) send a scout to explore the center of the map as seen on the retire screen.
6) as your scout uncovers tiles at the center of the map, tiles in your fog will be uncovered.
-roger

I was able to play this way as well. Although instead of saving and retiring I built stonehenge which automatically centered the map for me. After I had explored the center things were normal.

I am playing on a
AMD 3200+
512 MB RAM
GeForce 4MX

That's more or less what I've been experiencing. As I explore more, I start to be able to see tiles - even ones I haven't visited yet and should be hidden by the Fog. This patch of visibility slowly spreads until I can see everything.

I just wanted to confirm that using world builder to reveal all tiles lets me play normally as well after that. Although this is a fine workaround for now, it takes away a big part of the game (exploration). Fortunatly, as previous posters have mentioned this is clearly a bug and not a hardware issue. Please get us a patch soon, Firiaxis!

CombatMonkey, how did you exit out of the world builder to play the game? I went into world builder but I wasn't able to exit back out to the game - ESC wouldn't bring up the menu, and I didn't notice a button to go back to the game.

here's what i did:

open up Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\Technologies\CIV4TechInfos.xml

and do a replace all changing <bMapVisible>0</bMapVisible> to <bMapVisible>1</bMapVisible>.

now everyone starts with the map revealed. terrain is fine, although the oceans look a little funny for me. you still need to explore to find goody huts and your opponents, but unfortunately the terrain types and resource locations are revealed. but you are at least on equal footing with the ai since they will see everything too.

-roger

CombatMonkey, how did you exit out of the world builder to play the game?

In the top right corner there is a button to "Exit Worldbuilder" that worked for me.

merm,

Thanks for the tip on editing the tech file. Once I did that I was finally able to play the game for real! (Although with the map revealed) I truly hope that that this issue is resolved quickly. The game seems great from the hour I got of it, but I'd really like to play it as it was intended.

merm,

Thanks for the tip on editing the tech file. Once I did that I was finally able to play the game for real! (Although with the map revealed) I truly hope that that this issue is resolved quickly. The game seems great from the hour I got of it, but I'd really like to play it as it was intended.

This makes me happy, and ready to get home from work so I can try this out. I hope that this is fixed, and quickly by Firaxis, but if I can play the game until then, good. If that does not work I will just try the scenarios that work instead and hope for a fix asap.

merm and combatmonkey,

i too tried to modify my xml file as suggested by merm. but, on thereafter starting up civ, i get xml errors. did you not get those? thanks, man.

never mind, i am a dumba** who misspelled "bMapVisible" as "bMapVisble"

merlin9784,

my specs are:

IBM Thinkpad R40
512 MB memory
ATI Radeon Mobility 7500 w/ 32 MB memory
Omega 2.6.75a driver

-roger

GASP! It works for a Thinkpad? And I had given up all hope. Sitting on the sidelines, wondering if I should shell out some money for this.

Merm, how's the performance? Is it possible to play correctly with fog of war off? (note, I don't have the game, so I'm asking newbish questions)

here's what i did:

open up Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\Technologies\CIV4TechInfos.xml

and do a replace all changing <bMapVisible>0</bMapVisible> to <bMapVisible>1</bMapVisible>.

now everyone starts with the map revealed. terrain is fine, although the oceans look a little funny for me. you still need to explore to find goody huts and your opponents, but unfortunately the terrain types and resource locations are revealed. but you are at least on equal footing with the ai since they will see everything too.

-roger

Merm,

I still get the Cheshire Cat thing, but so what. Your fix worked terrifically. Thank you very much. I figured someone on Fanatics would eventually figure something out.

Thanks again,
-Quinn

Just for posterity:

I've been having this exact black-map problem on my laptop.

I used the srtest website and it gave me a solid pass. I didn't achieve Recommended only because of my video card being a Radeon 7500 w/32 MB.

The game RUNS, I just can't see the map. (Haven't tried the fixes mentioned here, but I expect them to work.)

So...
- the forumsters who have been saying 32 MB simply does not work are technically wrong, and
- if it turns out that Firaxis changed the "minimum requirement" to 64 MB at the last minute just to get around having to support this problem, I'll be somewhat disenchanted.

Being able to see the whole map from the start is unacceptable as a "solution," but for the time being it's better than nothing. Maybe I'll just play on Earth maps :D

I, too, was able to use these suggestions to get this working on one of my two laptops. It's an Evo N610c with a Mobility Radeon 7500 with 32MB Ram. With all of the graphics setting on low, I can play the game. Water is messed up and the whole map still has this darkening layer over it. It never seems to go away.

Just for posterity:

I've been having this exact black-map problem on my laptop.

I used the srtest website and it gave me a solid pass. I didn't achieve Recommended only because of my video card being a Radeon 7500 w/32 MB.

The game RUNS, I just can't see the map. (Haven't tried the fixes mentioned here, but I expect them to work.)

So...
- the forumsters who have been saying 32 MB simply does not work are technically wrong, and
- if it turns out that Firaxis changed the "minimum requirement" to 64 MB at the last minute just to get around having to support this problem, I'll be somewhat disenchanted.

Being able to see the whole map from the start is unacceptable as a "solution," but for the time being it's better than nothing. Maybe I'll just play on Earth maps :D

That's what ticks me off the most. A stealth update on requirements. If you go to Futureshop (Canadian retailer), specs are now listed as: "Display: 64 MB Video Card With Hardware T & L (GeForce 2 / Radeon 7500 or better)"

<gripe mode>
As if a 64 MB Radeon 7500 exists. Seems like they realized 32MB cards were causing problems and just decided to declare them unsupported.

On another Civ 4 forum, the moderators are posting "Radeon 7500 is not supported. You need at least a 7550".... As if a 7550 exists.
</gripe mode>

Unfortunately, it looks like they won't be fixing this anytime soon. So, us laptopers will have to settle for no fog-of-war gaming.

:) Maybe the guys at ATI will pick up on this and do something to stop losing market share to Nvidia.

(sorry, i'm not contributing right now to fixing, just griping, but I'll attempt to get Civ 4 and see how my laptop likes it)

I tried the XML edit, without much luck - a corner of my playing area was visible, and the part that was visible remained in the same corner as I scrolled - so I could see what I wanted to as long as I didn't directly look at it. It reminded me of a problem I had several years ago when the flu attacked the nerves in my eyes, leaving damage on one of my optic nerves - if I had to look at something with one eye, I could see it, as long as I remembered not to look directly at it.

I sent a warrior looking around, came across a goody hut that gave me a map - which opened up a larger area that was visible, but again, the area that was visible changed as I scrolled (the black spots stayed in the same place).

My husband (a software developer) is insisting after seeing this latest behavior that the problem is programmatically solvable. I'm inclined to agree with him. My guess is that there is something that can be turned OFF that will fix this. I'm going to toggle the bit in the XML file back to zero, and see if I get similar results as far as terrain eventually showing up - let's hope I find a goody hut with a map fast, cause I'm not really having any fun playing in the dark, other than that I like to break stuff...

OK, this is REALLY odd - I flipped the bit back to 0, and I'm getting the same display issues. I'm not certain that flipping it to 1 actually did anything now.

I did notice this time that when my capital expanded due to culture, the area that was visible also expanded. Still stuck in the corner, though (a different corner this time).

There's a new UnPak fix stickied at top. Has anyone with the black map issue tried it and see if it helps?

There's a new UnPak fix stickied at top. Has anyone with the black map issue tried it and see if it helps?


Yes, and no it didn't help.

Yes, and no it didn't help.

damn... time to look into GalCiv2:sad:

Any progress on this yet? I am getting worried this whole chesire cat problem won't be resolved. It seems like the Moblility 9000 are working, but I don't think anyone has the Mobility 7500 going.....that's what I have!!!

I have to agree with you. I am concerned that now they seem to have fixed the rendering problem for a lot of the people, Firaxis won't be in as much of a rush to provide a solution to this problem.

I have also been disappointed by the lack of any news on either the Firaxis or 2K games website concerning these problems. It seems that they do not want to announce the problems for fear of hurting sales.

And by the way, I also tried the "PakBuild" fix for the rendering problem hoping it would solve this problem, but to no avail.... The terrain is as black as ever!

I have to agree with you. I am concerned that now they seem to have fixed the rendering problem for a lot of the people, Firaxis won't be in as much of a rush to provide a solution to this problem.

I have also been disappointed by the lack of any news on either the Firaxis or 2K games website concerning these problems. It seems that they do not want to announce the problems for fear of hurting sales.

And by the way, I also tried the "PakBuild" fix for the rendering problem hoping it would solve this problem, but to no avail.... The terrain is as black as ever!


Amen bro. Have you tried to reveal all map like some other threads propose? Wonder if it's playable that way.

Ok, to set the record straight, there IS such a thing as a ATI 7500 64mb DDR Radeon, it's an All-In-Wonder card to be specific, I'm using it right now. ;)

So far I'm having the black terrain issue like the rest of you. now, I don't mind seeing all the terrain from the start (a quick game wont hurt, lol) but the trick with changing thexml from >0< to >1< doesnt work for me, like the last post regarding this. one thing to note is that the application itself is resetting the file back to >0< itself. I have saved it as >1< and reopened it to see if the settnig held, which it did. When I loaded the game I ran into the same problem again, checked the xml file and found that the >1< was reset back to >0<. so with that bit of info out, what could be causing the reset of the file and how do I stop the reset from happening?

PC Specs:

2.4 GHz Celeron
512mb DDR RAM 400MHz
40gb HDD Maxtor 7200rpm 8mb Buffer
ATI All-In-Wonder 7500 64mb DDR Radeon
8078 C-Media 6CH sound card

Hey Everyone,

Just tried the "Reveal Tiles" suggestion, worked great.
Gateway 6518GZ
512 MB DDR
(The Dreaded) Intel 82852 Integrated Video ; )

have the same problem, just wanted to sign up to the thread.

if you can use this reveal tiles thing, to get rid of darkness, then surely its a problem with the game, and nothing really to do with tnl ???

Ive got it to work on my pc radeon 9600, but my dell dont work black screen, with intel 8**** built in graphics, and my laptop has same prob, some mobility radeon,

So far I'm having the black terrain issue like the rest of you. now, I don't mind seeing all the terrain from the start (a quick game wont hurt, lol) but the trick with changing thexml from >0< to >1< doesnt work for me, like the last post regarding this. one thing to note is that the application itself is resetting the file back to >0< itself.

Are you trying to load a saved game? If so, it won't work.

Change the visible bit in the XML file, then start a brand new game. You should be fine.

I mean, it's not an entirely satisfactory play experience (having the whole map revealed) but it should tide you over till they patch.

Because I am sure this is a programming issue.

Someone in another thread suggested it has something to do with the center of the map somehow being "off." If I were a programmer trying to track this down, that is where I would start.

The evidence suggests this:

The "fog of war" black layer is laid over the map.

Many folks who have struggled through despite black terrain eventually start to notice terrain becoming visible in other portions of the map than where their units are located.

Folks have tried a fix where they go into World Builder, and place a unit at the center of the map, and that unit starts to reveal terrain.

you can pretty much see what is happening with this bug. if you play the smallest pangea map possible and have black terrain, you can see the lit up area near your location. if you start zooming out .. out .. out .. suddenly you get to a point where the lit up area pops back over on to your location and your location isn't dark anymore. as you zoom back in, it pops back over to where it started and your folks are left in the dark again. on a bigger map you can't see it working like this because the distances are too great and it isn't obvious where the lit up area moved to. maybe there are also graphics hardware problems with some people, but if you see that .. that looks like a quirk in the game's code to me, i hope they can fix it soon.

I have personally noticed that when I built Stonehenge, which centers the map, my mouseovers were suddenly off-center. In order to get the resource info for a tile with a mouseover, I had to actually put the cursor up and to the left of the tile I wanted to see!

This is a programming issue-- and, I suspect, and easy one to fix.

FIX IT, FIRAXIS!

Amen bro. Have you tried to reveal all map like some other threads propose? Wonder if it's playable that way.

I tried it and it IS playable that way. Even with this fix, though, it's still a little annoying because without fog of war, there's no way to tell exactly which parts of the world you've already explored, since it all looks the same. You have to go to the highest level of zoom-out to even distinguish which areas are within line of sight of your units/cities.

I tried it and it IS playable that way. Even with this fix, though, it's still a little annoying because without fog of war, there's no way to tell exactly which parts of the world you've already explored, since it all looks the same. You have to go to the highest level of zoom-out to even distinguish which areas are within line of sight of your units/cities.

I think that depends on how you define playable. I don't consider the existing bug to render it playable as a Civ-type game, any more than I'd consider a car with first gear stripped as drivable - it might get me where I need to go in a pinch, but it would be a hell of an unpleasant experience.

I think that depends on how you define playable. I don't consider the existing bug to render it playable as a Civ-type game, any more than I'd consider a car with first gear stripped as drivable - it might get me where I need to go in a pinch, but it would be a hell of an unpleasant experience.

It's actually not nearly as unpleasant as you might think. Obviously, some fun is taken out of it by being able to see everything, but if you can make yourself not look in detail until you take a unit there, you can hold some surprises back. Also, it's better than not playing at all, and this game is very, very much fun I think.

Please Come Up With A Real Solution!

Please Come Up With A Real Solution!

Oh I am hoping for one! And soon. But I just wanted to let anyone out there that is skeptical of this workaround (rather than fix) to know that it is playable and still eminently enjoyable, just not as much as it would be functioning properly.

Amen bro. Have you tried to reveal all map like some other threads propose? Wonder if it's playable that way.

It is def playable with the reveal all map change to the sequence. kinda takes a bit away from the game but not enough to keep me away from it. I have a HP Pavilion laptop with an integrated Radeon IGP345M Video. It worked for me. It's still kind of dark and not everything shows clear. But I can play on the road and save the game to a storage device and play it on my desktop at home.

(this is a double post - i should have posted here in the first place probably)

see everything but the terrain and the leaders? here's what i did to fix it:

1) start a game.
2) found a city.
3) save the game
3) retire and look at the map. see your city? figure out where the center of the map is relative to your city.
4) load your game.
5) send a scout to explore the center of the map as seen on the retire screen.
6) as your scout uncovers tiles at the center of the map, tiles in your fog will be uncovered.

i managed to play an entire game to completion like this. i've tested it on tiny and standard maps for "great plains" and "continents".

since i can see everything fine once i've explored the appropriate area (although leaders are still messed up),this makes me think this is not a "T&L" issue, but rather a bug.

one simple fix would be to have an option to start the user in the center of the map. if you start there you don't have to deal with exploring the "fog".

can't believe they didn't test this on older systems.

-roger



If what you say is true, and im about to test it, it sheds light on the problem. The fog, and whats revealed, are just not aligned somehow. I noticed this too. I used the xml trick where you set it from false to true (0-1) and that worked but I noticed as time goes on certain areas of the map are bright as if an area has been revealed. The ones in the corner are probably cities but theyre in the corner because theyre not centered on the town. I was even more convinced when one of the revealed locations areas was 3 tiles above my worker and moving along with him. If my worker when up the revealed location (which was like 6-7 tiles worth) would go up with him. Also the farms were really bright too.

Another thing, maybe the fog and the revealed part arent misaligned, maybe your first settler and scout are.

I am possitive, though, it has nothing to do with t&l for alot of people.

Just to set the record straight, this is *NOT* a "lack of T&L" issue. I monkied with my laptop all day yesterday (Thinkpad T42) and the cheshire cat and black landscape never went away.

However, when I load it on my work desktop (Intel Motherboard with whatever on-board video chipset does not support T&L), a system that srtest says does not meet the minimum specs, it runs like a dream.

I may need to stay late tonight. I'm sure my wife will understand.

Here's what I think happened.

The feature for starting the minimap off-centered was probably added late, and it wasn't regression tested on systems which were under the recommended level.

I wonder if there is an XML or Python setting to disable the off-center start feature?

/me goes off and browses some code

Has Firaxis said anything to anybody about fixing this black terrain problem? All I see in these fourms are temp. fixes and workarounds. Is Firaxis still sticking to there story about "its your video card, not are programming"? If there isn't going to be a fix soon, the least I would like to hear is that there working on it.

It's actually not nearly as unpleasant as you might think. Obviously, some fun is taken out of it by being able to see everything, but if you can make yourself not look in detail until you take a unit there, you can hold some surprises back. Also, it's better than not playing at all, and this game is very, very much fun I think.

Having attempted to play with it for a couple of hours yesterday, I can say that yes, it is as unpleasant as I have EXPERIENCED.

At least it's possible to work around this problem. You don't even need to change the settings - by turning on the option to display the production modifiers of the terrain, you can get a sense of what's there relatively easily.

I've noticed that, even when the squares become visible after exploring the center of the map, line-of-sight doesn't seem to function properly. Everything is slightly greyed-out as if it had been explored but wasn't currently visible.

Has Firaxis said anything to anybody about fixing this black terrain problem? All I see in these fourms are temp. fixes and workarounds. Is Firaxis still sticking to there story about "its your video card, not are programming"? If there isn't going to be a fix soon, the least I would like to hear is that there working on it.

I sent an email to Take2 this morning, I have not heard back anything, even a "we got your email" reply. There's nothing on the Firaxis support site that indicates that this issue is being addressed.

One guy in another thread said that he spoke to Firaxis tech support and that they were writing it off as a video card issue. I'm not comforted by this - the terrain is able to render, as evidenced by what people can see when the world starts revealing, so I don't see why it wouldn't be resolvable through coding.

I have the latest Omega drivers installed for my Radeon 7500. I played with all the settings and got rid of the cheshire cat and black terrain problem. I turned the '3D custom' options to high performance and the 'Smartgart AGP off'.
I don't feel like restarting my computer 10 more times to figure out which one it is but I hope this helps you guys.

And there is a new problem that you will see when you do it, the terrain is now the opposite of black.....but 3D heads!!

Alright it is the AGP option that makes the heads appear but it now runs slower than a multiplayer game with a dial up connection.

Alright for Omega driver users, turn off advanced graphics processor (AGP), max out performance on mipmap and max out quality on texture preferance. It runs smooth and you can see heads and terrain in white and yellow....as opposed to green and brown. Better then no terrain at all and no heads.

:confused: I have exactly the same issues , dark terrain, and missing faces.Also , intro movie stutters badly(both sound and graphics)
Here are my specs:

CPU:P4 2.8GHZ
RAM:512MB
OS:Win XP(SP2)
Graphics Card: Radeon IGP345m 64MB with T&L support
Video card driver version: : 6.14.10.6444

It's a laptop so replacing the video card is not possible. when I ran the test on srtest.com my video card has passed the requirements but for some reason is not good enough to display all the details properly. Is it possible that this might be the software issue that makes it incompatible with certain ATI cards? I badly want to play it but don't want to spent another thousand dollars to get a new laptop, especially if it's the issue with the game itself and not with the video card.:confused:

I think they may come up with a solution, but not in a hurry. Prob have to wait till the official patch is released.

My laptop def dont have TnL, but what bout those built in intel 8**** graphics???

Ok, so the gist of the T&L problem, from what I can understand, is that it might be a software problem, so that's encouraging. I've got an ATI Radeon IGP 345M (64 mb) in my laptop, and I'm almost positive it's not T&L supported. Is there any hope for laptop users or I'm gonna have to pawn this thing off?

Ok, so the gist of the T&L problem, from what I can understand, is that it might be a software problem, so that's encouraging. I've got an ATI Radeon IGP 345M in my laptop, and I'm almost positive it's not T&L supported. Is there any hope for laptop users or I'm gonna have to pawn this thing off?

I'm pretty sure it is T&L supported, it's not that old(approx year and a half old)srtest.com website also says that it supports T&L as well. Only downside is that there are no driver upgrade available for that model.Last driver was released almost 15 months ago. I hope patch if it would be eventually released would somehow make this thing work.

I have the same problem and i can't believe firaxis isn't fixing it! This is so annoying!

Thought I had something, Edited because its nothing. When you toggle baremap it does light up screen but you cant see any units :( sry.

I am on the same boat with most people here...

I have an HP Pavilion laptop with Radeon IGP345m 64MB video card. This same exact problem occured for me in Rome Total War. I wonder if there is a way to fix it. I also have no idea whether my card supports T&L (whatever that is) so if someone can let me know how I can find out it would be great.

Btw, all this "temporary" fix and revealing maps is disgusting, it totally strips the game of its strategy and the essense of the game. I cannot even stand thinking of myself playing like that...

I really hope there is a real solution to this soon. :(

I think that depends on how you define playable. I don't consider the existing bug to render it playable as a Civ-type game, any more than I'd consider a car with first gear stripped as drivable - it might get me where I need to go in a pinch, but it would be a hell of an unpleasant experience.

I'll agree with you here. I once drove pinto without 1st or 2nd gear from Massachusetts to New Jersey and this game has a similar feel to it at the moment. Quite frankly, the FOW trick is a really inadequate way to play a game I just dropped $50 on. Of course, that may be because my standards for saying things 'work' has changed since the mid-80's. It's especially annoying because it plays perfectly on my husband's computer and I can see it from where I'm sitting. I feel almost as cheated as the time I waited over a year for the release of the ultra-buggy MOO3.

Anyone else just really want their money back?

Nobody cares about the AGP fix to get rid of the cheshire cat and black terrain?....
I played with AGP off for about 30 minutes and the white terrain problem went away and everything was perfect.

Nobody cares about the AGP fix to get rid of the cheshire cat and black terrain?....
I played with AGP off for about 30 minutes and the white terrain problem went away and everything was perfect.

What do you mean? So you are saying that you had this same problem we have here and then you did the 'ATI Fix' that Firaxis released and after 30 minutes of playing in the dark it all became fine? :mischief:

I really hope they fix this soon. A lot of people seem to have this problem.

I've got the same problem.

What really ticks me off is that I have a Radeon 7500, which, according to the back of the box, IS A SUPPORTED CARD.

Yes, I've tried the Omega driver with AGP off - I see leaderheads and the bleached terrain, but the game moves slow.

If I turn AGP on, I get black terrain. I can use the "reveal map" workaround, but that's basically cheating. Still get dentures and eyeballs for leaderheads, and there's a permanent state of dusk over the map.

This is programatically fixable, and Firaxis needs to address this immediately.

I can use the "reveal map" workaround, but that's basically cheating. .

Whats the reveal map workaround? i have the same problem, chesire cat leaders and pitch black terrain

I don't have a space for another graphics card. Do I need a new computer?

yeah...im having the exact same problems as everyone eles...ive been trying to call take 2 for the past 2 days but i never go through...i know what there going to say anyway...im fine for now with making the whole map visible but when i try to edit the file it wont let me type...its just like a url page, please help (sorry im a moron)

Yeah, same problem here...ATI Mobility Radeon 7500C.
I've got all the classic symptoms : the leaderhead problem, dark terrain, and a slightly choppy intro movie (the second one).

Sounds like it might be a software problem with the fog of war, so I guess they might patch it, or, some modder could create static leaderheads and maybe a different fog-of war. *hopes*

Whenever I zoom out to the entire globe, the cities below turn black. ;/

Whats the reveal map workaround? i have the same problem, chesire cat leaders and pitch black terrain

Start the game. Open the world builder. Reveal all tiles (I don't know the exact menu option... you'll have to browse through the available icons to find it, but it's there).

This reveals the entire map. The game is playable under these circumstances.

It does not fix the leaderhead problem.

It is obviously possible to render the terrain and leaderhed under certain circumstances with these graphic cards. It stands to reason that Firaxis should be able to fix the problem with a patch.

I don't have a space for another graphics card. Do I need a new computer?

Is your current graphics card occupying a PCI or RDP slot? You can always replace it...

If you have on-board graphics, with no available slot, then you have to either lose a component elsewhere, get a new PC, or pray for a patch.

What is firaxis' status on making a patch to fix this problem? Have they responded to anyone's email?

Firaxis is feverishly working on a patch.

Whether or not it'll address (much less fix) this problem, I don't know.

I have not received a reply to my email, but I would be surprised if I heard anything before Monday since I didn't hear anything on Friday.

Just to make sure this passes bug reporting muster, here are the steps to duplicate:

1. Install Civilization IV, run the application.

2. Proceed to the leader selection screen. Notice that all leaders, when selected, have no faces - only floating teeth and eyeballs.

3. Proceed to game. Note that most or all of the terrain displays as black, rather than showing terrain detail such as mountains, grassland, etc.

allism, have no worries, this is a bug, and a big one at that. The fact that it's happening on video cards both large and small, TnL and non alike all demonstrates that this is a game bug.

Same problem, chipset 828 - it does not support T&L. Enough people are reporting that it's not T&L, though, that I have to question whether that's the sole problem.

It runs fine on my husband's computer, though - and he's fairly certain his does support T&L. He can run out and get a new video card, though - I can't, due to this being a laptop. Using his computer is not an option for me playing because, well, he'll be playing. We bought two copies for a reason :mad:.

I thought that my Intergrated Intel Extreme Graphics could handle this game but it didn't. I experienced the black terrain problem and the ghost people (as my son called them). I checked my system out at srtest.com and found out I was dead wrong. While Intel Extreme Graphics does have 3D acceleration it does NOT support T&L.

So, off I went to the store to buy a new graphics card. I chose GeForce FX 5500 128MB card because it was the cheapest ($80) there that I was pretty sure would work. Got it home and my husband installed it for me (Version 6.14.0010.7777 driver). Besides the opening movie choppiness (which I escape through anyway) everything is working fine now. No more black terrain and no more ghost people. The game speed is fine now as I've played for over 4 hours now with no slow downs at all. Maybe this was a T&L problem after all. I have a HP Pavillion Pentium 4 2.53GHz 512MB.

Obviously it seems like upgrading my graphics card has taken care of this problem. This has turned out to be a very expensive game for me now, but both me and my 10 year old son love CIV. My son is thrilled now so I guess that is all that matters. I just wish Sid, 2K Games and Firaxis had remembered the long time fans instead of designing a game that undoubtedly was going to render a lot of video cards out there completely useless.

Ive only been through the first 3 pages of this thread, but i havent seen one person with a radeon 8000+, x+, geforce5x, or 6x with the fog problem. There seems to be a blurred line between which cardsd do and do not support T&L, but at any rate it seems clear that this is a problem caused by inferior/integrated graphics. If you can get ur money back, thne it will be just as if your compy didnt meet the reqs.

There seems to be a blurred line between which cardsd do and do not support T&L, but at any rate it seems clear that this is a problem caused by inferior/integrated graphics.
It's not so clear if you read the entire thread, as well as the other threads about dark terrain and cheshire heads.;)

EDIT: Here you go:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=134772

It's not so clear if you read the entire thread, as well as the other threads about dark terrain and cheshire heads.;)

EDIT: Here you go:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=134772

So do you think the patch will address this problem, especially with the Intel integrated graphics card? I know you said you weren't surte, but maybe you are now

I don't know. I mean, I have no inside information or anything like that, so I have no idea what the patch will focus on. It's just that given this problem is affecting above-spec systems, they'll have to address it eventually. Better sooner than later...

Hey, can someone check something for me? Maybe someone who is NOT having this problem?

I wonder, if we players who HAVE the problem are missing some files in our Art directories. For my upcoming mod, I went into the leaderheads xml file and there was a path to the art for each leaderhead inside 'interface/Leaderheads'. I went in my files to find that directory and I can't find it anywhere. I ran a search through the whole Civ4 folder and the only place there is leaderhead graphics/files (besides XML, and one *.fx file for the normal game) is in the american revolution and greek world mod.

So maybe the problem lies in a lack of graphic files? Because for many people, the am. rev, and greek mods work for them fine, however the regular games do not.

Anyways, this is my hypothesis, if someone with a perfectly running came come and prove my thought wrong please do so (or right). I am going to go and run the greek mod and see if I can view leaderheads correctly.

-Amirsan

So do you think the patch will address this problem, especially with the Intel integrated graphics card? I know you said you weren't surte, but maybe you are now

I'd be surprised if a patch can fix the fact that Intel integrated graphic "cards" do not support T&L. I upgraded today and I'm so glad that I did. I realize now that my Intel "card" was robbing my system memory this whole time (obviously I'm not a computer whiz).

I agree that it's not very likely that a patch will mean Civ4 will run on below spec machines, but on a few it might. I can understand why some posters are waiting for a patch before spending money on a video card.

Err, I just checked and the same problems occur in the Greek mod and American Revolution... so I guess my little idea has no more basis. :(

I guess I need to wait until I raise another $600 for a new computer. [cry]

Maybe we should all send an email about our greivances to Firaxis on one same day, so they can get a sense of the urgency for this problem, and address it somehow.

Same problem here too guys. Black terrain, yuck, Firaxis please patch this!

What do you mean? So you are saying that you had this same problem we have here and then you did the 'ATI Fix' that Firaxis released and after 30 minutes of playing in the dark it all became fine?

No, after turning AGP off and mipmap to the lowest quality setting, then I played for about 30 minutes and all of a sudden while zooming in and out all of my bleached terrain went away....read above

I can confirm that turning off AGP with the Omega drivers resolves the darkness issue on my Evo N610c laptop with a Mobility Radeon 7500. The heads are now visible as well, but the terrain is rather bleached out. All other settings were left alone. 1X, 2X and 4X AGP all produce the darkness issues. The gameplay, however, is so slow that the game is unplayable. I also can't leave the settings like this as general operations in Windows are severely affected (too slow)

This card is specified as having hardware T&L, so I really don't see what the issue is with Firaxis calling this a hardware problem.

what does it mean to "turn off AGP"?

I can confirm that turning off AGP with the Omega drivers resolves the darkness issue on my Evo N610c laptop with a Mobility Radeon 7500. The heads are now visible as well, but the terrain is rather bleached out. All other settings were left alone. 1X, 2X and 4X AGP all produce the darkness issues. The gameplay, however, is so slow that the game is unplayable. I also can't leave the settings like this as general operations in Windows are severely affected (too slow)

Turn the mipmap and texture options on the 3D tab to the lowest quality setting.
Also, a member named 'laptopsolution' found out that if you turn your AGP to 0 then restart your computer, then turn your AGP up to 1x and restart your computer, and finally turn it to 2x and restart your computer. Now everything shows up and the speed is fine....4x brings back the 'failed to initialize renderer error'.
So if you want to sit through like 4 computer restarts you can play the game just fine....or just wait for them to fix this bug.

Turn the mipmap and texture options on the 3D tab to the lowest quality setting.
Also, a member named 'laptopsolution' found out that if you turn your AGP to 0 then restart your computer, then turn your AGP up to 1x and restart your computer, and finally turn it to 2x and restart your computer. Now everything shows up and the speed is fine....4x brings back the 'failed to initialize renderer error'.
So if you want to sit through like 4 computer restarts you can play the game just fine....or just wait for them to fix this bug.

Can he show us like before and after screenshots of this?

Has anyone tried playing a full game with the black terrain, maybe it goes to normal over time?

Has anyone tried playing a full game with the black terrain, maybe it goes to normal over time?

I'm not sure if I posted this here, but the black terrain issue is actually fairly simple: for purposes of fog of war, the game thinks you're always looking at the center of the map. Thus, if you explore the center of the map (or reveal it through other means, like worldbuilder) the black areas will go away. If you keep units there, you'll see normal terrain; if not, you'll see gray, shaded, fog-of-war terrain.

If I had to guess, I'd say that someone got lazy programming the fog of war, and made in a map-size layer that changes to reflect your intel. Then the bug is just that this layer isn't being moved to the right location; it's staying centered no matter what area you're looking at. This also fits with the behaviour when you zoom out: globe view works fine, since it's using a different graphical approach.

Has anyone tried playing a full game with the black terrain, maybe it goes to normal over time?
I have. What happens is after a few centuries, a corner of my screen (different corners in different games) will suddenly begin to display the terrain normally. This area will slowly enlarge until by about 1400AD, almost the entire screen is displaying terrain normally. I also noticed that if a terrain square has animals (horses, pigs, fur, etc) it doesn't display the animal, just little shadows that move around. I have one of those "Intel integrated" graphics "cards".

I am bored with this game. I am hoping most of it is due to frustration with display problems, but I am not about to shell out $80 for a card after already paying $50 for the game, when playing the game feels like a chore. For now at least, I'm going back to playing Civ III with the RAR mod.

I finally had a chance to sit down for a couple of hours this morning to work on this. I uninstalled Civ IV then uninstalled all my video drivers (Nvidia GeForce 4 MX). After installing the latest drivers and reinstalling the game the black terrain problem was gone. Hopefully some of you will be able to do this as well.

Unfortunatly, I have found now that if I play a normal sized or larger map scrolling and zooming are very slow. Any thought on whether I should inverst in a better video card OR more RAM (currently 512 MB)? Which will give me the biggest benifit?

Turn the mipmap and texture options on the 3D tab to the lowest quality setting.
Also, a member named 'laptopsolution' found out that if you turn your AGP to 0 then restart your computer, then turn your AGP up to 1x and restart your computer, and finally turn it to 2x and restart your computer. Now everything shows up and the speed is fine....4x brings back the 'failed to initialize renderer error'.
So if you want to sit through like 4 computer restarts you can play the game just fine....or just wait for them to fix this bug.
I tried this, as you suggested. I now get "Failed to Initialize Renderer - Check DirectX Version and Graphics Settings". I have already applied the renderer fix from Firaxis. I can only get the game to play with AGP off or on 4X

Additionally, I have a desktop PC with an Athlon XP mobile processor and a Nvidia Geforce 2 MX vid card with 32MB Ram. I installed the latest video drivers, then installed the game. Aside from a message about having a virtual CD drive enabled, I have had no problems running the game. The fog does have some holes in it, but the movement is fluid. The game even told me it was reducing my graphics levels because I had a minimum requirement card. So having a lesser amount of memory in the card is not an immediate limitation. Many of you may already know this. Just sharing my experience in case it helps.

Go to http://laptopvideo2go.com/index.php?s=75 and save the version number that you want( for me 78.82 worked with geforce420go) and the inf file. Then follow the directions here: http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=33
If it doesn't work keep trying until you get one to work. I also tried the more recent ones, but they aren't working with my computer. :)

PS this only got rid of the fog of war, there are still problems, just showing bread, etc...

If I had to guess, I'd say that someone got lazy programming the fog of war, and made in a map-size layer that changes to reflect your intel.

Got lazy with that and a lot of other things. Since actually playing this game on a computer that does the graphics properly I'm even more disenchanted. They have some really embarrassing mistakes in here, and I'd be ashamed if I were on the QA team. The civilopedia itself is pathetic...broken links, links to the wrong information, missing text, etc., and the information on the tech tree doesn't jive with what happens in the game or what is written in the civilopedia. Then there are the bugs that give you tech early. Changing screen resolutions is hazardous, let alone "alt-tabbing" to another program (say to play some music). The "main menu" and "Civilopedia" buttons have disappeared... There is a "rounding error" where a unit is healed to, say, "2.0/2" (just pin it at 1.9, geesh!). And some graphics "layering" that make it difficult to tell where your units are at times. Has anyone else seen the "phantom unit" flying in from the side and/or moving to another spot, even though the "right" unit moved to the "right" spot (hint: look for your unit's mirror image, but without a health bar). Sound is difficult to control and the fact that units show in front of the city info makes it hard to tell basic information about your cities without entering the city menu. And on and on....

My biggest problem with this game is that the developers sacrificed the game strategy elements that made CIV so cool, for graphics that make me ill and won't even run on my 6 month old box. This is probably a great game if you are an X-box type gamer, but for me I'll stick with C3C for now.

Just thought I'd share my opinion for those of you who think you are desperately trying to make a wonderful new game work. C3C is honestly more fun.

Just took some screenshots that I wish I could post to this thread. The starting area is clearly visible, but shaded out, while about ten spaces to the south, an identically-shaped zone is active and fully visible. Clearly the visible space that's supposed to be around my city and its units was displaced somehow.

My biggest problem with this game is that the developers sacrificed the game strategy elements that made CIV so cool, for graphics that make me ill and won't even run on my 6 month old box. This is probably a great game if you are an X-box type gamer, but for me I'll stick with C3C for now.

Actually, I think the strategy elements are there. The AI is incredibly good, the tech tree is more interesting, expansion takes effort rather than spamming settlers, etc. The problem is that they focused on graphics to the extent that you have to have a top of the line computer to get the game to run properly. Which is, needless to say, a really dumb idea. This is Civilization, not Half-Life.

Just a reiteration of the same issue others have pointed out.... seems like there's a lot of issues around the video layering on the 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controllers....

Its a problem since its an integrated controller on a laptop system board. I really hope that they plan on issuing a fix.

So is there any solution to this Darkness issue yet, can anyone confirm if they are actually working to resolve this issue?

I have an ATI All-In-Wonder 7500 and I have the darkness and screwed up 3D head thing. I have tried the cache and Unpacking fixes but it doesn't fix the problem.

So is there any solution to this Darkness issue yet, can anyone confirm if they are actually working to resolve this issue?

I have an ATI All-In-Wonder 7500 and I have the darkness and screwed up 3D head thing. I have tried the cache and Unpacking fixes but it doesn't fix the problem.

The trick with the world builder "worked" for me, though there are still the leaderhead problem.

I posted it in another thread...

but has it occured to anyone that maybe there is an option somewhere to enable the T&L and for most of our cards maybe its not enabled? Is there a place where we can see these settings? Maybe this is possible?

The trick with the world builder "worked" for me, though there are still the leaderhead problem.

yea that worked for me too but I don't want to play with having the whole map revealed, that sucks, and yea it still doesn't resolve the leaderhead problem anyways

yea that worked for me too but I don't want to play with having the whole map revealed, that sucks, and yea it still doesn't resolve the leaderhead problem anyways

That's why I put the word "worked" in quotes;)

for what it's worth, you only need to reveal the center of the world map. not quite so bad as having it all revealed.

-roger

I posted it in another thread...

but has it occured to anyone that maybe there is an option somewhere to enable the T&L and for most of our cards maybe its not enabled? Is there a place where we can see these settings? Maybe this is possible?


Anything is possible, but I find this highly unlikely. I too have an Intel 828 series and I've checked out their site Intel.com...from what I gather, it can't happen.
OTOH, I would LOVE to be proven wrong. :p

As of Tuesday morning, I still haven't received a response to the email I sent Tech Support on 28 October.

and they have not answered any of my 100+ phone calls

Same problem on my IBM T42. I guess those of us with company machines are SOL until Fraxis decides to help us out. Here's to throwing my CIV 4 box at the bottom of the luggage for the next few months. It hurts like breaking my leg.

Would it be easier to ask Fraxis to fix the software or to ask my IT guy to give me a new computer so I can play a video game?

Like breaking my leg.

Would it be easier to ask Fraxis to fix the software or to ask my IT guy to give me a new computer so I can play a video game?


Go ask your IT guy, Firaxis is not going to fix what they've stated is a hardware requirement. Here's a qoute from Locutus, a mod over at Apolyton, and also a beta tester and the designer for at least one of the scenarios that came with the game. So I'm guessing he has an idea of where Firaxis stands on the issue.


The T&L issue is a hardware requirement, it is necessary to be able to play the game, this was announced over 6 months ago. If your graphics card is so crappy it doesn't support T&L (and this is true for many Intel cards -- if you're a gamer you shouldn't have an Intel card to begin with), you're out of luck. It's simply not possible to include T&L support for this game without rewriting large sections of it, killing a couple of features and taking a big hit on performance. If it was possible it would've been done from the start.

This thread from other forum solved my dark background problem
http://www.forumplanet.com/planetcivilization/topic.asp?fid=15498&tid=1771389
My Compaq presario R3000 with GF4 Go 440 64M start showing dark ter. but after update new graphic driver (not form nVidia but Gruru3d) it shows at least more stuff . I'll try more later tonight see if all stuff show up.

This thread from other forum solved my dark background problem
http://www.forumplanet.com/planetcivilization/topic.asp?fid=15498&tid=1771389
My Compaq presario R3000 with GF4 Go 440 64M start showing dark ter. but after update new graphic driver (not form nVidia but Gruru3d) it shows at least more stuff . I'll try more later tonight see if all stuff show up.

It seems your card is having a problem with not showing the resources on a map, only the food. There's a thread about it here, and almost everyone on it has the same type of card as you, or at least similar.

This thread from other forum solved my dark background problem
http://www.forumplanet.com/planetcivilization/topic.asp?fid=15498&tid=1771389
My Compaq presario R3000 with GF4 Go 440 64M start showing dark ter. but after update new graphic driver (not form nVidia but Gruru3d) it shows at least more stuff . I'll try more later tonight see if all stuff show up.

This driver was mentioned in a few other posts as well. It's a Beta so I was very hesitant to install it on my laptop, but after seeing the good recommendations I did just that. I'm happy to report it did cure the dark terrain problem and the game seems to run a little bit better with less stuttering and slow diplomacy screen loading. The food only, no prod/comm issue still remains.

Thanks for the information. :goodjob:

So, as I understand it, anyone with an Intel extreme graphics card like the 82845 GL is totally SOL, correct?

So, as I understand it, anyone with an Intel extreme graphics card like the 82845 GL is totally SOL, correct?

That's right, though the 9xxx series seems to be OK. I've read a couple of posts by people that the game works fine on those, if they turn down the detail a little bit.

That's right, though the 9xxx series seems to be OK. I've read a couple of posts by people that the game works fine on those, if they turn down the detail a little bit.

Thank you, Willem.....bad news but it's the straight scoop.;)

so, the latest "solution" i've come up with is to edit the map scripts to place me in the center of the map, thus revealing the "fog". i tested this using custom game (where i was always the first team) on pangaea on all map sizes including huge, and i tested it on oasis too. no idea what happens if a map gets generated where the center is all water tiles.

anyway, the general idea is to find the isValid function definition within the [mapname].py script in Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\PublicMaps.

right after the line:

def isValid(playerID, x, y):

stick in the following:

map = CyMap()
teamID = CyGlobalContext().getPlayer(playerID).getTeam()
iH = map.getGridHeight()
iW = map.getGridWidth()

# Check if we are the first team, and if so put us in the middle
if int(teamID) == 0:
return x >= iW * .45 and x <= iW * .55 and y >= iH * .45 and y <= iH * .55


(all that stuff after return should be on the same line)

note that in python tabs have meaning, so make sure before the lines you have tabs instead of spaces.

hope this helps someone,
roger

Hey guys, I had the same problem with the dark terrain and was angry about it. I went out and bought a new vid card and the problem is fixed. I can verify that the G-Force FX 5500 PCI card works. This card is made by PNY and I picked it up at Best Buy for $100. It bites that we have to spend an extra lump of cash but it works for sure. I haven't played it yet so I can't tell you the performance, but the terrain is there and the cheshire heads have found the rest of themselves. All's well, can't wait to start playing tonight.

Post from another thread:

I have fixed my problems with the following adjustments:

* I went back to an old nVidia driver (61.77) link:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_61.77

* I uninstalled Windows Media Player and then reinstalled it.

* Turned off in-game movies in .ini file.

I think the key was WMP, can't tell you why though. With these adjustments I haven't had any graphical problems even at high graphic detail. Hope this solution helps others.

Go ask your IT guy, Firaxis is not going to fix what they've stated is a hardware requirement. Here's a qoute from Locutus, a mod over at Apolyton, and also a beta tester and the designer for at least one of the scenarios that came with the game. So I'm guessing he has an idea of where Firaxis stands on the issue.

The thing that kills me about this Locutus quote is that my card DOES, let me repeat that, DOES support hardware T&L. ATI mobility Radeon 7500. So that's not the problem.:wallbash:

OK. gotta calm down and go play it on my Intel box that DOES NOT support hardware T&L. On which, this silly game runs perfectly.

The thing that kills me about this Locutus quote is that my card DOES, let me repeat that, DOES support hardware T&L. ATI mobility Radeon 7500. So that's not the problem.:wallbash:

OK. gotta calm down and go play it on my Intel box that DOES NOT support hardware T&L. On which, this silly game runs perfectly.

:lol: That is odd... and sad at the same time. :( Atleast you can play the game though! Unfortunately for many of us its impossible to play it any way.


--

Congrats to all you guys that got it fixed! Anyone had the same luck with a Radeon card? Particularly IGP 345M? :D

Also, has anyone with a Radeon IGP 345M tried using the drivers at Omegadrivers.com?

Also, has anyone tried this program:
http://www.driverheaven.net/patje/

I am starting to believe that maybe this is a driver problem and that many of our drivers need updating...

The thing that kills me about this Locutus quote is that my card DOES, let me repeat that, DOES support hardware T&L. ATI mobility Radeon 7500. So that's not the problem.:wallbash:

OK. gotta calm down and go play it on my Intel box that DOES NOT support hardware T&L. On which, this silly game runs perfectly.

The 7500 will work but you have to turn off your ARP acceleration, which will make the game run very slowly. And the Intel 9xxx series video cards don't have Hardware T&L but they can fake it through emulation.

Also, has anyone with a Radeon IGP 345M tried using the drivers at Omegadrivers.com?

Also, has anyone tried this program:
http://www.driverheaven.net/patje/

I am starting to believe that maybe this is a driver problem and that many of our drivers need updating...

No, those cards won't work. They only support Direct X functions up to 6, and you need 9 for Civ 4.

Post from another thread:

I have fixed my problems with the following adjustments:

* I went back to an old nVidia driver (61.77) link:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_61.77

* I uninstalled Windows Media Player and then reinstalled it.

* Turned off in-game movies in .ini file.

I think the key was WMP, can't tell you why though. With these adjustments I haven't had any graphical problems even at high graphic detail. Hope this solution helps others.

Regarding these suggestions I made earlier, I am still having major display problems playing multi-player, even though things seem fine single-player.

On Intel 82852/82855 the "center map tricks" don't work.
Any other ideas?

The 7500 will work but you have to turn off your ARP acceleration, which will make the game run very slowly. And the Intel 9xxx series video cards don't have Hardware T&L but they can fake it through emulation.

Ehm. No. The 7500 will not work if you turn off your ARP acceleration. It will get rid of the floating eyeballs and the misplaced fog of war, but it will also discolour the terrain in very bright shades. At present the 7500 does not work. End of story. It was specifically listed as being able to work, which a lot of people find somewhat annoying. Myself included.

On Intel 82852/82855 the "center map tricks" don't work.
Any other ideas?

I have the same card as you do, and this is what "worked" for me.

Start a new game. Open the world builder. In the toolbar on the upper-right hand there are two rows of buttons. On the bottom row, second or third to last there is a button that enters "reveal map" mode (I think it looks like a brown box with a crosshair in it, but I can't remember completely). When you click that, a third row pops up with two buttons on it. One of the buttons should be "lit up", click the other one. Exit world builder.

This is the only way I've been able to even play. There is still a dark tint, like it is always nighttime, and you don't have to explore (this is the part people hate about this one the most:sad: ) but you can see the tiles, and it is at least playable, although not as fun as needing to explore the world around you.
NOTE: Does not fix floating eyeball problems.

My mistake. I have edited wrong line ;)
I can see the whole world from the beginning - it steals the fun from the game, but it's playable now...
Now let's wait for patch.

I've seen mention that Intel 82845 chips aren't going to cut the mustard on this thing...but does this apply to my 82865G ? I'm sorely tempted to believe that my system is new enough not be so outmoded that Civ IV broke its envelope inside of a year of buying the dern thing....

I have the Radeon 7500 card, so apparently I have to turn off my APR driver to show the terrain. Would someone be kind enough to tell me how to do that (Windows XP home)? And will there be any problem turning it back on again if a patch is developed?

Ehm. No. The 7500 will not work if you turn off your ARP acceleration. It will get rid of the floating eyeballs and the misplaced fog of war, but it will also discolour the terrain in very bright shades. At present the 7500 does not work. End of story. It was specifically listed as being able to work, which a lot of people find somewhat annoying. Myself included.

I agree with you that this card should not have been listed as minimum. It works to a point but not enough to really consider it compatible. They should have gone with the 8500 as the bottom end. It looks to me like the game need more than just T&L, it also needs Pixel Shading 1, which the 7500 doesn't have. Even the GeForce4 Mx 4xx cards have issues with the trade/production icons on the map, and those cards don't have Pixel Shading 1either.

I've seen mention that Intel 82845 chips aren't going to cut the mustard on this thing...but does this apply to my 82865G ? I'm sorely tempted to believe that my system is new enough not be so outmoded that Civ IV broke its envelope inside of a year of buying the dern thing....

This link here will take you to a list of supported cards. If you look, being sure to go down a couple of posts as well, you'll see that the Intel 8xxxx cards will not work with the game.

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141405

My mistake. I have edited wrong line ;)
I can see the whole world from the beginning - it steals the fun from the game, but it's playable now...
Now let's wait for patch.

There won't be a patch for this, it's a hardware issue. Your video card is simply not compatible. Check the link I provided for compatible cards.

I have the Radeon 7500 card, so apparently I have to turn off my APR driver to show the terrain. Would someone be kind enough to tell me how to do that (Windows XP home)? And will there be any problem turning it back on again if a patch is developed?

Go to Contol Panel>Display>Settings>Advanced, look for a tab that says SmartGart. Your ARP setting are in there. But as bogh as pointed out, this fix just barely works. Your game will run very slowly, and the colors of the map won't be right. And I doubt very much if a patch is going to fix your problems, it's just an old card that doesn't run the game very well. And I mean old in technology, not in years.

PS: It seems I've been wrong, it's actually called the AGP speed in the SmartGart settings. I apologize for any confusion.

I have a SiS M650 videocard in my ACER laptop. Civ4 also gives black land when i play it.

There won't be a patch for this, it's a hardware issue. Your video card is simply not compatible. Check the link I provided for compatible cards.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with you there. It seems like even people with compatible cards are having issues with the black terrain and so forth. If systems that are suppose to support the game are experiencing glitches, it seems like a programing problem. Any reputable company would make a patch for a problem like that, and I'm sure Firaxis will eventually.

I'm not saying the patch will suddenly make the game run perfectly on my machine (a labtop with an 82whatever video card), but there should be one to address the black terrain and the floating eyes.

I'm not saying the patch will suddenly make the game run perfectly on my machine (a labtop with an 82whatever video card), but there should be one to address the black terrain a nd the floating eyes.

Take a look at the list of compatible video cards I placed above. Your card does not work with the game, and that's not going to change with a patch.

I have a SiS M650 videocard in my ACER laptop. Civ4 also gives black land when i play it.

Also take a look at the list. You card doesn't work with the game either.

And I doubt very much if a patch is going to fix your problems, it's just an old card that doesn't run the game very well. And I mean old in technology, not in years.

Two points:

That the game does not run very well is a bit of an understatement. The graphics are decidedly not working. We are not talking rare glitches or artifacts here, we are talking massive graphical errors that make the game next to unplayable. Noone expected a high speed, excellent performance out of their minimum specs system, but they did expect the game to work. It doesn't now.

The cards are clearly capable of rendering the terrain correctly. The black terrain problem eventually diminishes and areas of the map become lit up correctly.

In short: I would expect Firaxis to patch the game to a level where it actually works as intended for minimum specs. Whether it would be enjoyable (as per speed issues and general performance) is another question, but IMO serious graphics corruption on systemts that live up to the minimum specs is a bug, and a rather serious one at that.

Two points:

That the game does not run very well is a bit of an understatement. The graphics are decidedly not working. We are not talking rare glitches or artifacts here, we are talking massive graphical errors that make the game next to unplayable. Noone expected a high speed, excellent performance out of their minimum specs system, but they did expect the game to work. It doesn't now.

The cards are clearly capable of rendering the terrain correctly. The black terrain problem eventually diminishes and areas of the map become lit up correctly.

In short: I would expect Firaxis to patch the game to a level where it actually works as intended for minimum specs. Whether it would be enjoyable (as per speed issues and general performance) is another question, but IMO serious graphics corruption on systemts that live up to the minimum specs is a bug, and a rather serious one at that.

I'm getting rather tired of debating this issue. I guess you'll just have to wait until the patch is released to see if it does solve your problems. I've already stated that those cards should not have been listed as minimum, there's not much more I can add.

I'm not saying the patch will suddenly make the game run perfectly on my machine (a labtop with an 82whatever video card), but there should be one to address the black terrain and the floating eyes.

Yes, there "should" be one, but fact is they made a purposeful decision not to when making the game for certain specs, so it is doubtful they will reverse themselves with a patch.

With regard to the link to the video card list at Apolyton -- and thanks BTW, it is a very useful reference -- but just for the record it claims the Intel 8**** won't run the game, and that's not entirely true. I have that video and I can play the game fine, there are just the following issues:

1. Cheshire cat leaders
2. Black terrain (somewhat solved by the reveal map fix)
3. Stuttering sound on videos
4. Horses and cows appear as little black spots

That's not a huge list. Even with my awful integrated graphics, the game almost runs as intended. So on one hand Firaxis really kept the hardware requirements to a minimum. BUT on the other hand, this is particularly frustrating because while everything else can run on crappy graphics, they decided in just a couple places to splurge on eye candy that left behind a whole generation of laptop users.

This is just a bizarre decision, IMHO. There's already the option to turn off videos. Seems to me they could have provided an option switch to turn off whatever is causing the other three problems (e.g., "3D leaders? yes/no" "3D terrain? yes/no"). Had they done this many hard-core laptop Civ users would not be feeling so disappointed and abandoned, at least they would have a playable version. But I think the Powers That Be felt it better to just not let these people play at all rather than play a watered-down version, even tho most of these users play Civ for its strategy, not graphics.

This link here will take you to a list of supported cards. If you look, being sure to go down a couple of posts as well, you'll see that the Intel 8xxxx cards will not work with the game.

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141405

Thanks, pard.

$65 dollars later I'm openning a Radeon 9250 128 MB thingamajig to plug into the PCI doohickie. Wish me luck!

Willem;

At the risk of yet imposing on your kindness for sharing your expertise again, I most humbly ask for a moment of your consideration.;)

I have an Emachine with....

82845 GL graphics card
Celeron 2.19 Ghz cpu
768 meg of ram
55 GB hd
only PCI expansion slots

1. What do you recommend for a PCI display card that, in your opinion, is the best bang for the buck? I'm not a DOOM and/or RT player and only need it to work well with civIV.

2. One of my buddies states that "any" PCI display card is a waste of time and strongly suggests another type that I can't recall at the moment but would possibly mean having to buy a whole new computer system.:cry:

Do you agree? Or is it needed for civIV?

3. Lastly, would you know a reasonable web site for getting it?

If you do choose to respond, just think of the positive karma you'll generate.:) :)

ps...obviously, nothing you recommend would be held against you. I'm freely begging for your suggestions.:)

same problems with me... sad... very sad...

So I emailed Firaxis about this problem, since my 128 m nVidia 5700 LE is way above the requirements and still has all kinds of problems. Surprisingly, they got right back to me, and I sent them some screen shots. Part of the exchange:

I sent this onto our lead programmer and we're looking into it. Might be already fixed in a patch we are releasing next week. A lot of tweaking on
the movies was done.

Thanks for looking into it, too. I have to say I didn't expect this kind of responsiveness, given that you guys might be a wee bit busy at the moment...

We are waaay busy, but our main goal is to get the best patch out
possible, so I'm running around collecting info like yours and making sure
our programmers have it on their to-do list for the patch.

So, at least we can expect a patch that addresses this stuff.

EDIT: I'm starting another thread so people see this...

I have the same problem and the same system

So am I. Cheshire cat leaders, skipping sound during the opening cinematic.
At least I can see the resources so the game is playable.

My girlfriend's Dell computer has a 2.8 P4, I've upgraded it with 1 gb of ram...

It's the mobo mounted graphics card, right? Wondering if her computer has an AGP port...

Has anyone else seen the "phantom unit" flying in from the side and/or moving to another spot, even though the "right" unit moved to the "right" spot


During tutorial, my warships would fly in to the right and "splashdown" while I was scrolling the camera near the shore.

bump
Hurry on that patch Firaxis. Come on.. You can do it!!!!:p

On Intel 82852/82855 the "center map tricks" don't work.
Any other ideas?

You don't have T&L. Even a patch won't fix your problem unfortunately. I have the same video "chip" and finally just upgraded to a GeForce FX 5500. Everything works great now.

You don't have T&L. Even a patch won't fix your problem unfortunately. I have the same video "chip" and finally just upgraded to a GeForce FX 5500. Everything works great now.
Yeah. But with a laptop it's not so easy...
:cry:

:) well i feel smart i had the game in my hands at walmart ready to buy it for 58.99 canadain then i thought to my self OOOO FIREAXES OR WHAT EVER IS A TRICKY COMPANY so il go download it , even if itl take 3 days , try it , if it works perfectly then go buy it , i personaly like having the box there and supporting good games and buying them like the civ series and like everyone else i was waiting for it to come out to , i gatta say its an amazing game , amazing graphics i can c that there good at making teeth and eye balls ,, and pitch black terrains thank the lord i didnt buy it , and im not ganna untill this stupid problem is fixed ;) i sat here for 2 hours reading all of the posts i really hope you guys get to play this game lol by the way i like the menu song its good

This is the first version of Civ that hasn't played out of the box for me, which is very disappointing. Bugs are bugs, but to not be able to see the Terrain?

I don't really care about the leaderheads!! For me Civ has been primarily a strategy game.

I have a Desktop (2.4 Ghz P4, 512 MB Ram) with an Intel 82845G graphics card. I've downloaded the latest driver patch (June 05) ... still dark, but I haven't tried uninstalling and reinstalling CIV yet.

I know Willem has mentioned multiple times that Intel 8xxxx card users are just out of luck, because of the website listings. I think that is too simplistic; I can start the game, I see units, buildings, I can see resources, I can see Bread/Hammer/Commerce indicators. The game functions nearly as one would expect it to. However, the FOW is not mapping to my monitor properly. As I move scouts around, I eventually started to see the terrain in a few squares at the top of my screen. When I scroll the map, the same revealed 'squares' on my monitor revealed whatever terrain was below them; even areas far outside of where I'd scouted. This can't be simply a hardware problem!

I figured out a work-around for the black tile phenomenon. You have to bear with it for a while, but the key is to "explore" the center of the map, as in Longitude 0, Latitude 0. One game, that was on land, and I managed to found a city there, before I knew what I was doing. On another game, it was ocean, so I put a boat smack-dab in the middle and just sat it there.

Once you do that, the game pretty much works like it ought to, aside from the eyeballs and teeth of the leader-heads. But I consider that the foreshadowing of what my armies will do to them. :D

(I've got one of the crappy Intel cards)

This leads me to believe there may be a software back door to the issue.

Also, I was reading the spiral instruction book, and in Soren's article at the end, in the thank-you section, he mentions the beta-testers having to put up with "invisible terrain."

This leads me to hope that maybe it will be handled in a patch. We shall see.

IThis leads me to believe there may be a software back door to the issue.

Also, I was reading the spiral instruction book, and in Soren's article at the end, in the thank-you section, he mentions the beta-testers having to put up with "invisible terrain."

This leads me to hope that maybe it will be handled in a patch. We shall see.

I desperately hope you're right.:)

Yeah, I'm having all of the same problems that everyone else seems to be having. Intro movies choppy, Cheshire Cat leaders, and total fog of war. From all that I've read, this has to be a softwear issue due to the fact that terrain can be revealed through the world editor, so, c'mon Firaxis, patch!

AMD 2800, 512RAM, it is onboard gfx though.... If the patch doesn't work the hand will have to go into the pocket, but it's a pain!