Hey folks, I am potentially one of the unlucky ones stuck with a laptop equipped with an Intel Extreme Graphics 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controller (April 2003). I say "potential" because I am reading conflicting information in posts here (and links to sites) regarding whether or not we folks with an Intel graphics display are shut out of enjoying Civ4 altogether.

So I ask a favour: before I invest in this game, can those of you who have been successful running Civ 4 on a box/laptop equipped with Intel graphics set please let me know and include their graphics specifications?

(Btw: My Toshiba laptop has never given me graphics trouble with software yet - I can even play DVD films without glitches. If I can play DVD films why shouldn't I be able to play something less graphically intense like a game? I am not a HW expert :blush: )

Thanks ahead for anyone with useful info to share on this! :D

Oh yeah, I should also add that DirectX 9.0 works fine on my machine...

Hello i would be interested in knowing as well.
I have an Intel 82865G... and yes i know its crap, however Rome Total War works fairly decently with it.
Why would Civ4 have more trouble than the more demanding RTW?
I checked on the srtest website and i failed the video card requirement for Civ4 as it doesnt have T&L, but i also failed RTW which does work on my computer... (www.srtest.com for those who would like to see how their minimum spec requirements fair against a certain game, don't know how legit it is though).
Thanks for any help or insight

i got the same chipset as you all...i would have got the game n give u all an answer but the games not out in singapore yet.

anyone can tell me if you are running it fine for your lappy?

im interested too, as i have the Intel 9xxx and it failed the srtest.com too

Hey folks, I am potentially one of the unlucky ones stuck with a laptop equipped with an Intel Extreme Graphics 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controller (April 2003). I say "potential" because I am reading conflicting information in posts here (and links to sites) regarding whether or not we folks with an Intel graphics display are shut out of enjoying Civ4 altogether.

So I ask a favour: before I invest in this game, can those of you who have been successful running Civ 4 on a box/laptop equipped with Intel graphics set please let me know and include their graphics specifications?

(Btw: My Toshiba laptop has never given me graphics trouble with software yet - I can even play DVD films without glitches. If I can play DVD films why shouldn't I be able to play something less graphically intense like a game? I am not a HW expert :blush: )

Thanks ahead for anyone with useful info to share on this! :D

Oh yeah, I should also add that DirectX 9.0 works fine on my machine...



Not sure if it helps, but I have desktop with an Intel set which does not support HW T&L and it has crashed my system twice. I'm still browsing the forums for a solution, but I'm afraid the game is not playable without an upgrade.

Ran the game on a laptop with an Intel 852/855 GM chipset to see what it would do. The leaders were doing the Chesire cat thing, and the terrain was all black. You'll need to upgrade.

Ran the game on a laptop with an Intel 852/855 GM chipset to see what it would do. The leaders were doing the Chesire cat thing, and the terrain was all black. You'll need to upgrade.

ooh crap..i dun really mind the chesire effect but terrain blackness? can we get around that or does it affect gameplay so bad, u can't play?:blush:

You won't be able to tell what your opponents are thinking in the diplo screens, and you won't be able to tell what terrain you're on unless you mouse over it constantly -- not so good for city building and fighting wars.

I think it's like playing Chess on a pc without a cpu. The game is 3d, the idea is that your videocard renders the stuff. If your videocard can't render 3d you're in trouble.

I heard 2 people say it worked with their Intel 9xx, which is what I have. But I'm still waiting to learn more.

I heard 2 people say it worked with their Intel 9xx, which is what I have. But I'm still waiting to learn more.

same here.... crossing my fingers....:sad:

Has anyone who has an integrated Intel Chipset tried 3D-Analyze? I was having trouble running Sid's Pirates! on my laptop until I found this utility. I have a 32MB without HW T&L and Pirates crashed all of the time. I read about this utility (google wb search will find it) and now I am enjoying Pirates with no slowdown while waiting for Amazon to get off their **** and ship Civ 4 to me.
Hope this helps.
Chris

There is a list of systems that are working or not working in this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=133629) thread.

Has anyone who has an integrated Intel Chipset tried 3D-Analyze?

How can we do this? I am replacing my computer in three or four weeks, but right now have an Intel 82845G graphics controller. I launched the game and my units are standing in a sea of black ink (I can see the squares but no terrain features.)

Has anyone who has an integrated Intel Chipset tried 3D-Analyze? I was having trouble running Sid's Pirates! on my laptop until I found this utility. I have a 32MB without HW T&L and Pirates crashed all of the time. I read about this utility (google wb search will find it) and now I am enjoying Pirates with no slowdown while waiting for Amazon to get off their **** and ship Civ 4 to me.
Hope this helps.
Chris


i assume you arent using it with the intel chipsets?

Pirates may be using the same engine, but apparently it's using different rendering methods. I was able to play Pirates on my Intel Extreme powered laptop using the high settings work around, and the only issue was the weird renders of city governors. Ground terrain worked perfectly, and there were no chesire cats to be (not) seen. If Civ4 used the same methods, no one should be having any problems with black lands...unless no one's tried to turn their graphics settings all the way up?

Thanks for sharing so far... :)

I never expected my laptop to handle the intense graphics associated with the latest FPS, RPG or RT games (online or not) since those games were never my cup-o-tea. However, I have always enjoyed my Civilization - a turn based game I can play at my leisure and maybe MP a bit with friends. Now it looks like Civ4 won't play on my reasonably equipped 2-year old laptop...

How disappointing! :( I refuse to to be forced to buy a new machine to play this game! :mad:

Unless there is a work-around (I appreciate the lead concerning 3D-Analyze :) ), then Firiaxis has lost a customer for now :(

Nonetheless, I will continue to monitor things to see if there's an inexpensive solution - who knows?

Back to Civ 3! :)

Thanks for sharing so far... :)

I never expected my laptop to handle the intense graphics associated with the latest FPS, RPG or RT games (online or not) since those games were never my cup-o-tea. However, I have always enjoyed my Civilization - a turn based game I can play at my leisure and maybe MP a bit with friends. Now it looks like Civ4 won't play on my reasonably equipped 2-year old laptop...

How disappointing! :( I refuse to to be forced to buy a new machine to play this game! :mad:

Unless there is a work-around (I appreciate the lead concerning 3D-Analyze :) ), then Firiaxis has lost a customer for now :(

Nonetheless, I will continue to monitor things to see if there's an inexpensive solution - who knows?

Back to Civ 3! :)

Are you completely insane? Do you complain to Sony that a PS2 game doesn't work on a PS1? Please, you're making my brain hurt. I'm sorry to be the first one to tell you this: Your computer sucks. It's not Firaxis's fault that you're running outdated technology. Grow a brain people.

BTW: Incase you don't already know this, Intel graphics are NOT meant for playing games. They have that feature, but a Gefore or an ATI video card is a card that's meant for games. Intel graphics chips are designed for simple tasks, like windows features and playing video - welcome to 2005 people. I don't know where you guys have been the last seven years.

Are you completely insane? Do you complain to Sony that a PS2 game doesn't work on a PS1? Please, you're making my brain hurt. I'm sorry to be the first one to tell you this: Your computer sucks. It's not Firaxis's fault that you're running outdated technology. Grow a brain people.

BTW: Incase you don't already know this, Intel graphics are NOT meant for playing games. They have that feature, but a Gefore or an ATI video card is a card that's meant for games. Intel graphics chips are designed for simple tasks, like windows features and playing video - welcome to 2005 people. I don't know where you guys have been the last seven years.

That was marvelously rude garric... :( Nor you really know me or understand my position.

Laptops are not cheap throw-way desktops (as many are prone to be); a 2-year old laptop is not outdated as a 2-year desktop! My machine, built in 2003 (not 1998! "seven years" :rolleyes: ), works great and the newest laptops are only marginally better for the same price or marginally cheaper for the same specs. I have been paying attention to what's going on the market!

Civ3 works great for me. Civ4 is a open question... Not all new games are the made the same. I did not expect civ4 to run on my machine without some tweaking! Unlike some ppl I cannot afford to replace my computer every 6 months (nor do I want to - what a pain in the butt that would be).

I am looking for an inexpensive solution - not rude remarks. Civ4 looks great, but if I cannot find a reasonable solution, then I can't buy it for another few years until I can afford to pay for a better machine.

(Ooops did I just feed a troll? :rolleyes: )

That was marvelously rude garric... :( Nor you really know me or understand my position.

Laptops are not cheap throw-way desktops (as many are prone to be); a 2-year old laptop is not outdated as a 2-year desktop! My machine, built in 2003 (not 1998! "seven years" :rolleyes: ), works great and the newest laptops are only marginally better for the same price or marginally cheaper for the same specs. I have been paying attention to what's going on the market!

Civ3 works great for me. Civ4 is a open question... Not all new games are the made the same. I did not expect civ4 to run on my machine without some tweaking! Unlike some ppl I cannot afford to replace my computer every 6 months (nor do I want to - what a pain in the butt that would be).

I am looking for an inexpensive solution - not rude remarks. Civ4 looks great, but if I cannot find a reasonable solution, then I can't buy it for another few years until I can afford to pay for a better machine.

(Ooops did I just feed a troll? :rolleyes: )

You're completely insane. Do you realize that even though you might have bought your laptop in 2003 it might have been built in 2001? Ever think about that? And my computer, which I bought 3 years ago, still runs Civ 4 on the higher settings. It's an AMD processor w/ a Geforce 5 I think.

The reason I was "being rude" was because you were assaulting Firaxis - which is totally unwaranted. It's not Firaxis's fault that your computer sucks. Keep in mind that Civ 4 takes a very slow computer to run anyway EVEN THOUGH IT CAME OUT IN 2005. The Gfx aren't amazing or anything, and that being said, newer games like Quake 4 or Fear take a pc that's ten times faster than Civ 4. Now, if your computer is so outdated that it can't even run Civ 4, I don't know what to tell you.

Go play PS2 or something.

Point is that people were not paying attention when purchasing laptops. It is their own fault. There are laptops out there that cost $50 to $100 more; that have GeForce or Radeon; and virtually all of them are capable of running CIV IV.

When assessing the right laptop, one must be aware that the graphic card you get it with it cannot be replaced.

Blame yourself and intel for your situation. Next time - get AMD and nvidia laptop.

When I bought my old Toshiba Satellite, all I was paying attention to was the vastly superior CPU and RAM capacity. At that point in time, back in 2003, TnL was a non-issue, as none of the games and the market then forced users to rely on the hardware architecture found in the ATI and nVidia cards. Those were more or less extra features that looked nice, but weren't necessary.

That's changed since then, and I spent over a year and a half finding random games were little better than coasters for my machine. The only reason I was able to upgrade was the budget I put myself on for about eight months, and the desire not to have to deal with similar incompatibility issues again.

In all honesty, this doesn't say anything really great about my priorities. The laptop itself was more than sufficient for my more responsible endeavors. This new machine was purchased primarily due to my frustration with the growing number of games I wanted to play...

Thanks for starting this thread as some related information was helpful. I also have an Intel, _865GLC well, you know the one.

Anyhow, most people like me, just wanna play a game in their spare time. They don't want expensive upgrades, or to be first in line purchasing a new X-Box 360 console for their cousins bar mitzva. They also demand a bit of respect, and time. Especially when they are spending they're own money.

They dont want to get sucked into some miserable dimension of pirates, hackers, and corporate bozos, who all want to suck you dry, and unless you've been dealing with computers since the begining, http://www.grc.com/ you dont't want to have to learn new jargon, paying all sorts of cash to be told 'you made the wrong purchase, idiot! You should've got this-and-that custom built here, for cheaper.- Ha!Ha!'

My computer dealer told me: "I wouldn't need a video card - its already got the best!"
But I think becasue their first language is Serbian, they were only afraid that answering 'yes' would affect my decision to buy the computer. But in reality, I would've got the card THEN, knowing Intel sucks. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to know you've been ripped off once you purchase an Intel product - but whats a consumer to do but post blogs? The positive thing, is that now I can look into getting a 'good' video card - something I've been meaning to for a while.

I've got Intel chipset (865GLC) Do any geniuses out there know if I can even support a video card? Ive got 8 AGP slots, but know jack-squat about computers as my post has thus proven.

In conclusion, to not purchase Civ4 sounded like sane advice from a wise consumer, and not all people can be experts at everything. (Computers, Cars, Machinery, Engineering etc. etc. etc.) Good luck on the return, I have already pre-ordered, and am SUPPOSEDLY getting it tomorrow (Canaduh border cops probably playing everyones copy of Civ 4) but now I am sure it wont work, will see about getting my pre-order funds re-imbursed and NOT purchasing this product.

C3C @ the 'Sid' level - Here I come :)

You're completely insane. Do you realize that even though you might have bought your laptop in 2003 it might have been built in 2001? Ever think about that? .

Rubbish. I know my machine and where I purchased it.

The reason I was "being rude" was because you were assaulting Firaxis - which is totally unwaranted. It's not Firaxis's fault that your computer sucks. Keep in mind that Civ 4 takes a very slow computer to run anyway EVEN THOUGH IT CAME OUT IN 2005. The Gfx aren't amazing or anything, and that being said, newer games like Quake 4 or Fear take a pc that's ten times faster than Civ 4...

Firaxis knows there are plenty of civvers like me who enjoy civ3 on their machines with Intel graphics - including some machines built today. It is to their business advantage to keep customers like me in mind. If they choose not to - or it may be that for technical reasons they can't - they will loose a large base of customers like me. No one is blaming anyone here. Sometimes things don't work out as we like right away. A work-around may be necessary... I'm not buying a spanking new machine for one game - that's jusy crazy.

The only assaulting here are words like "your computer sucks" and that charming little PM I received from you in my mail here calling me a moron and other lovely expletives. How mature... :rolleyes:

Thanks for starting this thread as some related information was helpful. I also have an Intel, _865GLC well, you know the one.

Anyhow, most people like me, just wanna play a game in their spare time. They don't want expensive upgrades, or to be first in line purchasing a new X-Box 360 console for their cousins bar mitzva. They also demand a bit of respect, and time. Especially when they are spending they're own money.

They dont want to get sucked into some miserable dimension of pirates, hackers, and corporate bozos, who all want to suck you dry, and unless you've been dealing with computers since the begining, http://www.grc.com/ you dont't want to have to learn new jargon, paying all sorts of cash to be told 'you made the wrong purchase, idiot! You should've got this-and-that custom built here, for cheaper.- Ha!Ha!'

My computer dealer told me: "I wouldn't need a video card - its already got the best!"
But I think becasue their first language is Serbian, they were only afraid that answering 'yes' would affect my decision to buy the computer. But in reality, I would've got the card THEN, knowing Intel sucks. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to know you've been ripped off once you purchase an Intel product - but whats a consumer to do but post blogs? The positive thing, is that now I can look into getting a 'good' video card - something I've been meaning to for a while.

I've got Intel chipset (865GLC) Do any geniuses out there know if I can even support a video card? Ive got 8 AGP slots, but know jack-squat about computers as my post has thus proven.

In conclusion, to not purchase Civ4 sounded like sane advice from a wise consumer, and not all people can be experts at everything. (Computers, Cars, Machinery, Engineering etc. etc. etc.) Good luck on the return, I have already pre-ordered, and am SUPPOSEDLY getting it tomorrow (Canaduh border cops probably playing everyones copy of Civ 4) but now I am sure it wont work, will see about getting my pre-order funds re-imbursed and NOT purchasing this product.

C3C @ the 'Sid' level - Here I come :)

Thank you. I needed someone on my side. :) Best of luck on the return option. Maybe some of us will play Civ4 one day when we can afford an upgrade - assuming that's our only option. :sad:

I heard 2 people say it worked with their Intel 9xx, which is what I have. But I'm still waiting to learn more.
Really? I'm running the Mobile Intel 915GM/GMS, 910GML card on my (three month old!) Dell Inspiron 6000 laptop.

While these cards don't actually have T&L, they say that they emulate them in the software - which I should be able to handle with 512MB RAM.

Moved to CIV Technical. :)

Moved to CIV Technical. :)
Good idea K-D. Thank you. :)

I can confirm Intel 915GM/GMS 910GML works fine, at least at 128MB. Yesterday my movies weren't working; today they are plaing fine. Go figure.

They just released a new driver for that card last month, so even if you think your drivers are up to date, they might not be.

I can confirm Intel 915GM/GMS 910GML works fine, at least at 128MB. Yesterday my movies weren't working; today they are plaing fine. Go figure.

They just released a new driver for that card last month, so even if you think your drivers are up to date, they might not be.
Wow, thanks a lot!

this is awesome news!!!

You're completely insane. Do you realize that even though you might have bought your laptop in 2003 it might have been built in 2001? Ever think about that? .


You know as much about marketing and product inventories as you do about being polite.

I've seen an xml fix around here for chipsets that can't render T&L. Something about revealing the whole map via a setting. Ah, here it is


here's what i did:

open up Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\Technologies\CIV4TechInfos.xml

and do a replace all changing <bMapVisible>0</bMapVisible> to <bMapVisible>1</bMapVisible>.


I do not know if this works but I will probably get around to testing it in a day or two. I have it running on a laptop with a radeon 9700, and have a intel 9xx and 82xx laptop to test it on. I will report back but it might be next week.


For all of you who are about as helpful as a stick up the butt, some people can't just go buy a new computer on a whim. Some people don't want a desktop because a laptop is 1000x more convenient. I've owned top of the line desktops, and they spend most of their time gathering dust because a laptop is more convenient, FOR ME. Don't go judging how other people use computers because your tiny little brains can't conceive that someone might have different priorities.

Sheesh!

I know Firaxis said from the beginning that T&L were required, so Im not mad, but I hope there can be a workaround in the mix for Intel users.

I searched for Intel, T&L on the net, and came across this for the game 'Tron 2.0' which had a T&L issue on intel chipsets, for which a patch was released, and the T&L issue was resolved for 865GLC models and higher. Maybe there is hope for some of us. :)

Check it out...I am still looking at other things regarding this issue...

http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/cs-006363.htm

I have: Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controller (Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Controller). No T&L.:cry:

I loaded it up. Started it and everything seemed normal except for skipping sound during the intro movie. And then... CHESHIRE LEADERHEADS! No solution for that. But then...BLACK TERRAIN!

There is a semi-solution for that :goodjob: - go into worldbuilder from the in-game menu and select reveal all terrain in the upper left hand corner. Then turn it off, but all the terrain will visible. This does turn off fog of war, which frustrates me to no end, but it does make it playable. I turned graphics down to low just to be safe.

It is definitely a major step in the right direction, and it makes it playable. Also, for everyone who's saying "oh, you ignorant idiots should have thought about that when you bought your laptop", stop. Just stop. No one expects a brand new laptop, in many cases less than a year old not to support something like that. :mad: That is all.

For those like me with Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controller, thanks to NWO's lead I found this:
http://support.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-010471.htm

If one pokes around there you'll find out what games Intel has tested for its other controllers. I'll presuppose that Civ4 is too new for Intel to have had access to test it yet so I imagine Intel will have no news for a little while. When they do I hope it's no worse than some file tinkering. I don't mind waiting a little if the outcome is good... would've been nice to dive-in, buy the game, play this weekend and share the excitement! Alas, such is life sometimes. :lol:

Aside from waiting for Intel to do something - if they can - I'll continue to look around for other news and info...

It is definitely a major step in the right direction, and it makes it playable. Also, for everyone who's saying "oh, you ignorant idiots should have thought about that when you bought your laptop", stop. Just stop. No one expects a brand new laptop, in many cases less than a year old not to support something like that. :mad: That is all.

Amen bro. Even current laptops have Intel vidsets. This sorta reminds me of Master of Orion 3, except that game was truly sucky. Maybe Galactic Civilizations 2 will fill the void.

I have: Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controller (Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Controller). No T&L.:cry:

It is definitely a major step in the right direction, and it makes it playable. Also, for everyone who's saying "oh, you ignorant idiots should have thought about that when you bought your laptop", stop. Just stop. No one expects a brand new laptop, in many cases less than a year old not to support something like that. :mad: That is all.

Sorry, but lack of TnL support is part of problem. Intel doesn't make graphic chips. That thing is more emulation than anything else. The real problem is that such graphic "engine" is slower than slowest graphic cards that was released 3 yrs ago.

This is not good, not bad either - not very definitive let's say: http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-003992.htm.

A small number of games that specifically check for hardware T&L support may fail to run. Does this specifically include Civ4 or not, that is the question for me. Maybe the folks at Firaxis can give a precise answer? (Hello? Sid and friends? :) )

In most games, transform and lighting calculations can be performed on the processor with acceptable performance. Is this where a work-around is possible? File adjustmets? Downloads? Something Firaxis can offer? I really don't know on this point.

Intel's web page for the above link was last updated Jun 4th/2004... Intel doesn't have much to say regarding hardware T&L lately. My research so far is persuading to understand better what Comraddict said regarding T&L specs - it is easier to follow now that I've read something myself.

The question for me now is whether, since June 2004, there is a possible work-around today at all. I'm not enough of a comp sci engineer to know... :blush: :(

You're completely insane. Do you realize that even though you might have bought your laptop in 2003 it might have been built in 2001? Ever think about that? And my computer, which I bought 3 years ago, still runs Civ 4 on the higher settings. It's an AMD processor w/ a Geforce 5 I think.

The reason I was "being rude" was because you were assaulting Firaxis - which is totally unwaranted. It's not Firaxis's fault that your computer sucks. Keep in mind that Civ 4 takes a very slow computer to run anyway EVEN THOUGH IT CAME OUT IN 2005. The Gfx aren't amazing or anything, and that being said, newer games like Quake 4 or Fear take a pc that's ten times faster than Civ 4. Now, if your computer is so outdated that it can't even run Civ 4, I don't know what to tell you.

Go play PS2 or something.

I think you are REALLY missing the point.

A) Civ1,2, and 3 were all games oriented to the 'thinking' type as opposed to the 'hand eye coordination' type.
B) Many Civilization fans are people that don't play FPS games or even some RTS games (all based on hand eye coordination)
C) Many Civilization fans are bound to not have 'gaming systems' with video cards that support Hardware T&L/
D) Many people are interested in playing this TURN BASED STRATEGY game on a laptop. Many laptops have video cards that do not support hardware T&L. Sure, many of the 'desktop replacement' laptops do, but not the smaller, more portable units.
E) Most of the computers that can't run Civ4 due to hardware T&L issues are NOT 'outdated' as you say, but they simply lack the one feature that is causing the headaches - hardware T&L... a 1.8ghz celeron laptop w/ 1gb of ram is not *outdated*

In my case - I have 2 perfect desktops... One is a 3.4ghz pIV w/ 1GB of ram and a ATI 9800 pro w/256MB. The other is an Athlon 1800XP+ w/ 1GB of ram and a GeForce ti4400. Unfortunately, my BRAND NEW LAPTOP (which was not bought for games at all) has this Intel Extreme Graphics card in it. Its a Dell Inspiron 700m - Very small - Very efficient (5 hrs of battery life on the extended battery and 2.5 on the stock one). It has 1GB of ram and its a 1.8ghz celeron. The graphics card doesnt support hardware T&L of course... And you can't even get a better card on this model. The only other option for me in this class of laptop (16:9, 12.1" TFT, small and efficient) was the Sony Vaio S class (13.1" TFT). That would have cost me $2500.00 as opposed to the $1100.00 I paid for the Dell.

At the end of the day, the dang engine should just support software T&L. I wouldn't mind the slowdown and I suppose many of the others in the same situation as I am also would not. At the end of the day, this is a TURN BASED STRATEGY game. I dont need eye-candy, I want good rules and a good challenge that I can play while winding down in some hotel room after a day onsite at a customer's facility.

What I really wanted was Civ3 graphics w/ Civ4 rules :)

Point is that people were not paying attention when purchasing laptops. It is their own fault. There are laptops out there that cost $50 to $100 more; that have GeForce or Radeon; and virtually all of them are capable of running CIV IV.

When assessing the right laptop, one must be aware that the graphic card you get it with it cannot be replaced.

Blame yourself and intel for your situation. Next time - get AMD and nvidia laptop.

You are wrong, sucker. The Intel Centrino 9xx chipsets run the game just fine.

I don't know where you guys have been the last seven years.

your mom's.

c'mon, seriously? you're goign to hate on people like that. you tool.

my box is 5 mos old (yes, intel 8xx series) and while i'm not entirely geeked out on computers or games, i fully expected a new computer would run new games. where have YOU been the past 7 years? these aren't the dark ages of computers. you think compatibility issues at this stage of the tech game are normal? or should be acceptable?? the fact that consumers tire of these types of issues is exactly why PC gaming has suffered. people want out of the box satisfaction. not everyone wants to pay $2000 + for a computer anymore (why should we?? to play a few games??).

to answer the topic, my lousy intel 8xx did NOT render. not suprising since the intel site specifically says the chipset does not support T&L.

that said, if you get a new card (i got an fx5200), there may still be lingering issues (lag, choppy video, etc.) which could be card issue still or memory. who knows. the games sucks anyway. just wait.

A new computer doesn't mean anything. I can purchase and put together a brand new computer that won't run any new games. It all depends on what hardware you place in the new computer.

That being said, I have yet to load the game up on my laptop, but because of my line of work (network engineering) I will in the next few days as I hit the road for a few days again. I paid $1100 for my HP Pavilion w/64MB Nvidia graphics card, 512MB RAM, and 17" widescreen display. Sure, it's a little heavy, but that's why they make backpacks and it plays game great!

I helped with support for another game for about a year on a volunteer basis and one of the constants we always heard "But they said the Intel graphics cards would play games just fine!" Sure... games like Minefield. They're not even really graphics cards and in many cases they use up system RAM as video RAM.

Hopefully a number of folks out there who are using not-so-good graphics cards will learn from this. Even the "simple" games can require something with a little more power in it.

Dave

You are wrong, sucker. The Intel Centrino 9xx chipsets run the game just fine.

lol haha, i hope you are right!

A new computer doesn't mean anything. I can purchase and put together a brand new computer that won't run any new games. It all depends on what hardware you place in the new computer.



obviously.

i don't think it's unreasonable for people who are NOT big gamers, who also ENJOY games from time to time, to buy a new computer thinking they'll be fine. speed, ram, space. have usually been the biggest culprits (in my experience) in not being able to run a game. not chipset nightmares like this.

regardless, there are more problems than the intel chip sucking. if you EVER want to play the game properly (assuming these problems get worked out), i'm guessing a card upgrade will be necessary. that i already did....whatever...

obviously.

i don't think it's unreasonable for people who are NOT big gamers, who also ENJOY games from time to time, to buy a new computer thinking they'll be fine. speed, ram, space. have usually been the biggest culprits (in my experience) in not being able to run a game. not chipset nightmares like this.

regardless, there are more problems than the intel chip sucking. if you EVER want to play the game properly (assuming these problems get worked out), i'm guessing a card upgrade will be necessary. that i already did....whatever...

Technology moves forward quickly these days. That PC someone paid $2,000 for last year won't be as good as the one you can buy for $1,500 today. Plus, computer makers like Dell probably cause a lot of confusion by offering up systems for $450. What they don't mention is that you'll be able to surf the 'net and maybe play a game that was released a year or two ago with that system.

Of course, it all comes down to the end-user. If you don't bother to do a bit of research on what you're spending your money on, don't be upset when it doesn't work how you wanted it to. :)

BTW, I don't think the problem is with the Intel chipset, but rather the Intel graphics "cards". I am using an Intel chipset in the home desktop and the game runs great.

dave

Technology moves forward quickly these days. That PC someone paid $2,000 for last year won't be as good as the one you can buy for $1,500 today. Plus, computer makers like Dell probably cause a lot of confusion by offering up systems for $450. What they don't mention is that you'll be able to surf the 'net and maybe play a game that was released a year or two ago with that system.

Of course, it all comes down to the end-user. If you don't bother to do a bit of research on what you're spending your money on, don't be upset when it doesn't work how you wanted it to. :)

BTW, I don't think the problem is with the Intel chipset, but rather the Intel graphics "cards". I am using an Intel chipset in the home desktop and the game runs great.

dave

no doubt. and that argument would hold more water were it entirely an issue with "old slow poor performing" machines. that just doesn't seem to be the case. whatever the problem (card, chipset), intel said the 8xx series i had simply doesn't support T&L. since the nvid card fixed that floating teeth syndrome, i'm inclined to believe they're telling me the truth.

the real sucky thing is, the game itself PLAYED quite well on the intel card (just no terrain). now, i see the terrain, but it's so damn slow and choppy.

just not that much fun for $120.

no doubt. and that argument would hold more water were it entirely an issue with "old slow poor performing" machines. that just doesn't seem to be the case. whatever the problem (card, chipset), intel said the 8xx series i had simply doesn't support T&L. since the nvid card fixed that floating teeth syndrome, i'm inclined to believe they're telling me the truth.

the real sucky thing is, the game itself PLAYED quite well on the intel card (just no terrain). now, i see the terrain, but it's so damn slow and choppy.

just not that much fun for $120.

How much system RAM do you have? Also check your page file size, it should be 1.5 times the size of your system RAM. But I've found that a size of 2GB works good in most cases.

Dave

At the end of the day, the dang engine should just support software T&L.

It has been confirmed that if your video card supports software T&L, the game will run - such as with the newer Intel 9xxx series.

The problem is with cards that don't support ANY form of T&L, whether software or hardware such as the Intel 8xxx series. My laptop has that too, so I will have to stick to Civ 3 on the laptop.

Also understand that the decission to develop the game with T&L is one that lies at the core of game development, and cannot be changed with a "backwards compatible patch" of some sorts. Supporting hardware that does not support any form of T&L will mean a complete restructuring of the Civ 4 code, and you can be pretty darn sure they won't offer a 800 Mb patch to patch all the graphics back to a non-T&L environment, and you can also be pretty darn sure they won't bring a "Civ 4 Light Edition" on the market.

It means that we both have to play on our desktop computers and not on our laptops. It won't run on mine either, I am sure of that.

It has been confirmed that if your video card supports software T&L, the game will run - such as with the newer Intel 9xxx series.

The problem is with cards that don't support ANY form of T&L, whether software or hardware such as the Intel 8xxx series. My laptop has that too, so I will have to stick to Civ 3 on the laptop.

Also understand that the decission to develop the game with T&L is one that lies at the core of game development, and cannot be changed with a "backwards compatible patch" of some sorts. Supporting hardware that does not support any form of T&L will mean a complete restructuring of the Civ 4 code, and you can be pretty darn sure they won't offer a 800 Mb patch to patch all the graphics back to a non-T&L environment, and you can also be pretty darn sure they won't bring a "Civ 4 Light Edition" on the market.

It means that we both have to play on our desktop computers and not on our laptops. It won't run on mine either, I am sure of that.

Of course, yes - the entire engine for the game is based on the availability of certain graphics features in software. What I am wondering is why one of the aftermarket '3d software T&L' applications wont work - or even better, why doesnt the intel 8xxxx driver do software T&L? If the crappy hardware won't do it, why can't they just do it in software? For a card to be dx9.x compliant, it is supposed to support SOME type of T&L (be it software or hardware)...

--Randallman

It has been confirmed that if your video card supports software T&L, the game will run - such as with the newer Intel 9xxx series.


has this been officially confirmed? sorry to pry, but im not eager to thorw away 50 bucks:)

I have the amazing Dell Dimension 3000 (2.4 GHz 512 RAM Some Intel thing) (Which my girlfriend bought as a "work" computer) and it ran Civ 3 fine. However, on Civ IV, I get cheshire cat/black terrain syndrome bad! I'm going to pick up a state-of-the-art PCI (I have no AGP!) card, the Radeon 9250 with 256 MB of RAM. Hopefully that works.

I have the amazing Dell Dimension 3000 (2.4 GHz 512 RAM Some Intel thing) (Which my girlfriend bought as a "work" computer) and it ran Civ 3 fine. However, on Civ IV, I get cheshire cat/black terrain syndrome bad! I'm going to pick up a state-of-the-art PCI (I have no AGP!) card, the Radeon 9250 with 256 MB of RAM. Hopefully that works.

Not having an AGP or PCI-e slot is pretty bad :( I feel for ya... I guess you're still better off than those of us with brand new craptops that still wont play the game :)

haha brand new craptops is right... of course i might be in luck with my intel 9xx

with the Intel 8XX chipset you can run the game, however you will get the black terrain, the way around this is to revise the XML file located in the game files. doing this will cause you to see the entire map. except enemies. Its like the clear screen cheat in CIV 3. If you are desperate like i was to play this game then its worth it, as it was for me. I probably would have ended up finding and using the cheat code anyway! So, if you wanna be on an equal playing field like AI then you can edit this way

goto: "C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\Technologies

OPEN: CIV4TechInfos with notepad

then goto File | Relpace...
then replace all

<bMapVisible>0</bMapVisible>

with

<bMapVisible>1</bMapVisible>

...this works as i have used it and i have the Intel 8xx;)

How much system RAM do you have? Also check your page file size, it should be 1.5 times the size of your system RAM. But I've found that a size of 2GB works good in most cases.

Dave

512mb ram

i THINK the page file size is 1.25gb? i say "think" b/c i really don't know how to know that.

i did play this evening, and when the game lagged a lot, i went out to the desktop to check the performance and the page file was getting up to 300+. sometimes 400, but no more. it did climb from 90 to 120 to 300 the longer i played, but leveled (i have NO idea what that means).

i'm curious whether there is any useful info to be found in the init logs. i found several references to errors in the audio log:

[4423.875] ERR: FAudioSystemMiles::Set3DSoundPosition: Illegal index -1 of type 1
[4423.968] ERR: FAudioSystemMiles::Set3DSoundPosition: Illegal index -1 of type 1
[4424.140] ERR: FAudioSystemMiles::Set3DSoundPosition: Illegal index -1 of type 1
[5431.921] ERR: FSharedSoundData::Load: Could not read file Sounds/Buildings/HangingGardens.
[5431.937] WRN: Dynamic resident sound could not be loaded, GlobalId: 278
[5431.937] WRN: FSound:: DoLoad: Sound Sounds/Buildings/HangingGardens could acquire a loaded buffer.
[5431.937] WRN: FAudioManager:: DoSound(): Could not load scriptId 252./n

and in the resmgr log:

RESMGR: Texture PlayerColor01.tga failed to load
RESMGR: Texture PlayerColor02.tga failed to load
RESMGR: Animation set file art/LeaderHeads/Julius_Caesar/Julius_Caesar_BG.kfm was not unloaded, refcount=3
RESMGR: Animation set file art/LeaderHeads/Peter_the_Great/peter_BG.kfm was not unloaded, refcount=2
RESMGR: Animation set file art/LeaderHeads/Saladin/saladin_BG.kfm was not unloaded, refcount=2
RESMGR: ---- Unloading ----

does that mean anything to anyone?

your mom's.

c'mon, seriously? you're goign to hate on people like that. you tool.

my box is 5 mos old (yes, intel 8xx series) and while i'm not entirely geeked out on computers or games, i fully expected a new computer would run new games. where have YOU been the past 7 years? these aren't the dark ages of computers. you think compatibility issues at this stage of the tech game are normal? or should be acceptable?? the fact that consumers tire of these types of issues is exactly why PC gaming has suffered. people want out of the box satisfaction. not everyone wants to pay $2000 + for a computer anymore (why should we?? to play a few games??).

to answer the topic, my lousy intel 8xx did NOT render. not suprising since the intel site specifically says the chipset does not support T&L.

that said, if you get a new card (i got an fx5200), there may still be lingering issues (lag, choppy video, etc.) which could be card issue still or memory. who knows. the games sucks anyway. just wait.


This is rediculous. Anyone who has a clue will NOT expect a game on a 3D engine to run WELL on an FX video card or an INTEL video card.

It's common sense.

I gave up on trying to get this game to work with my intel thing and just bought a PCI radeon 9250 (128 meg, I learned that the 256 meg one can't really take advantage of its memory since its bottlenecked by the PCI interface), it was REALLY cheap, barely more than the game cost. For anyone else who was unwise enough to buy a machine without an AGP slot, I would recommend this solution, as the 9250 is supposed to slightly outperform the NVIDIA 5200 at any rate and also that the 5200 seems to give Civ IV big problems...

I'm running a 2.4 GHz Celeron (I know! Leave me alone! I won't make this mistake again!) with 512 MB RAM, the radeon 9250, and the game runs fine with highest graphics settings and 1280 x 1024 resolution. Morale: A PCI video card IS good enough for this game (I'll still have to go to my friend's house to play BF2!). Also, to understate, this game is really good, and I can't ever play Civ III again!

Good luck guys.

I gave up on trying to get this game to work with my intel thing and just bought a PCI radeon 9250 (128 meg, I learned that the 256 meg one can't really take advantage of its memory since its bottlenecked by the PCI interface), it was REALLY cheap, barely more than the game cost. For anyone else who was unwise enough to buy a machine without an AGP slot, I would recommend this solution, as the 9250 is supposed to slightly outperform the NVIDIA 5200 at any rate and also that the 5200 seems to give Civ IV big problems...

I'm running a 2.4 GHz Celeron (I know! Leave me alone! I won't make this mistake again!) with 512 MB RAM, the radeon 9250, and the game runs fine with highest graphics settings and 1280 x 1024 resolution. Morale: A PCI video card IS good enough for this game (I'll still have to go to my friend's house to play BF2!). Also, to understate, this game is really good, and I can't ever play Civ III again!

Good luck guys.


which intel card was it?

I have the 82865G, and I got cheshire cats and black terrain. The cheshire cats were pretty funny, but I wasn't a big fan of the terrain.

Also, I realize that people with laptops don't have the option of buying a super-low-end graphics card, but for people with AGPless desktops, don't get the 5200, get the 8250.

Also, go for Alphabet, then you're the only one who can trade techs! It rules!

Read for yourself the dirt on the latest Intel gfx chips (http://support.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-007910.htm)

By default, the game requires a graphics adapter with hardware T&L (Transform and Lighting) support to run. Intel® graphics controllers do not support hardware T&L. Software T&L can be enabled using a setting in the game configuration file.

All Intel graphics will have problems with any serious use of T+L.

Hey I just wanted to post my findings. I have a 3 month old dell laptop with intel integrated 82852/82855 graphics. I have a 1.8 ghz and 1GB ram. Upon first installation I got the chesire cat and black graphics and I was really dissapointed, but after messing around and reading the forums I did the world builder cheat and the game runs perfectly!

I still get the chesire cat in diplomacy, but this is not essential for gameplay. The intro video skips but the wonder videos are perfect. My chip renders all the terrain perfectly. I would expect a patch/fix for this problem soon because the intel chipset is obviously capable of rendering the terrain graphics, it just doesnt right away for some reason.

Bottom line, people with intel chips, dont rush out today and buy a new card because I think they could find a work around for this. My card is does NOT have T&L and it fails the srttest for civ4, but Im still playing and enjoying the game with only minor issues.

your mom's.
(i got an fx5200)

The 5200 is ****. Really, take it back. I have a 5600, it works decently, though I don't have Civ IV yet and haven't tried it. The 5600 shouldn't be THAT expensive now, I hope. None of these are new cards though. I don't know what ATI cards are good, but someone else might be able to name a fairly cheap one which can handle Civ IV.

Edit: Looks like other people did. One person recommended the Radeon 9250 with 128 MB of RAM if you don't have AGP. *keeps reading*

This is rediculous. Anyone who has a clue will NOT expect a game on a 3D engine to run WELL on an FX video card or an INTEL video card.

It's common sense.

No, it isn't, and you're wrong. NOLF2 runs smooth as silk on maximum details on my GeForce FX 5600. Most of the other games I like run great too (Deus Ex, Elite Force 2, Max Payne 2, to name some FPSes). The only ones that don't are fairly new FPSes that I'm not terribly interested in anyhow (FEAR), or ones that have woefully unoptimized engines (DX:IW).

Double A You are a game saver no more black ground!!I have intel 82845g graphics controler on my desktop that doesn't have a graphics card slot so I can't buy a new card.You saved me a ton of money from buying a new computer.I owe you big!Thanks again.

No...Civ IV did not work right with my Integrated Intel Extreme Graphics chip. I have an HP Pavillion Pentium 4 2.53 GHz 512 MB CPU. I had dark terrain and the ghost leaders (as my son called them). I bought a GeForce FX 5500 128 MB card today for $80 and the game works great now. Not having T&L was clearly my problem.

And, Double A, your quick fix will work but it takes away the exploration part of the game that I truly enjoy. However, if you are on a fixed budget (as I know most are these days) it is a good fix.

Hey I just wanted to post my findings. I have a 3 month old dell laptop with intel integrated 82852/82855 graphics. I have a 1.8 ghz and 1GB ram. Upon first installation I got the chesire cat and black graphics and I was really dissapointed, but after messing around and reading the forums I did the world builder cheat and the game runs perfectly!

Could you make step-by-step guide?

Ran the game on a laptop with an Intel 852/855 GM chipset to see what it would do. The leaders were doing the Chesire cat thing, and the terrain was all black. You'll need to upgrade.


I have Intel Extreme Graghics 845GV on my desktop and have the same problem; And the nitwits gave me a French Tech Tree to boot:crazyeye: .

with the Intel 8XX chipset you can run the game, however you will get the black terrain, the way around this is to revise the XML file located in the game files. doing this will cause you to see the entire map. except enemies. Its like the clear screen cheat in CIV 3. If you are desperate like i was to play this game then its worth it, as it was for me. I probably would have ended up finding and using the cheat code anyway! So, if you wanna be on an equal playing field like AI then you can edit this way

goto: "C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\Technologies

OPEN: CIV4TechInfos with notepad

then goto File | Relpace...
then replace all

<bMapVisible>0</bMapVisible>

with

<bMapVisible>1</bMapVisible>

...this works as i have used it and i have the Intel 8xx;)


No this kind of fix is not for me. Either they (FireAxis) fix it or I have a new $40 Frisby.:mad:

... and a French Tech Tree dart board.

No this kind of fix is not for me. Either they (FireAxis) fix it or I have a new $40 Frisby.:mad:

... and a French Tech Tree dart board.

ya, this is not a fix.

how m i going to play multiplayer? ask everyone to play with reveal map on?

Mine says "AMD Sempron, 220+, MMX, 3DNow, ~1.5 GHz"

And "960 MB RAM"

Is it going to work?

bump.....

anyone else running successful intel graphic cards?

I succeed with my Intel 915 Centrino.

It's a bit slow, but i dont have try to configure anything, i try to make it work on my other computer who have a Ati Radeon 64 meg.

If I dont find anything to do for my other computer I'll try to speed up civ4, by playing in the setting of the game, or in the setting of the video card...

See ya,

Dom



bump.....

anyone else running successful intel graphic cards?

I have the same configuration; Intel 82865G; and unfortunately the cheshire cat smile and the black background problems are present. After reading numerous messages over the last few days I am going to upgrade tommorrow to either the GeForce FX5500, PCI card with 256 MB DDR, or the Radeon 9250 PCI card with 256 MB DDR; both of which have been highly recommended. I have been able to play the game (using the Mini Map display features) but it would be nice to see the great graphics I saw in the screenshots.

If you have a Intel card this is worth reading. I have the black terrain on normal civ games but when I access the Revolutionary War scennario the terrain and game look visually perfect. This leads to me believe that the Intel card is not the problem. Also on page 188 of the manual Soren Johnson thanks the testers and mentions " terrible crash bugs, gaps in communications, system incompatibilities, invisible terrain, and worse." Say that again. Invisible terrain. This reminds me of Pirates when the Dutch captain was invisible in the beginning of the game. Also your character was like a Terminator 2 bronze liquid substance. That was corrected in the patch. I've played 2 games of Civ4 so far by using the map mod to remove the tile blackness. While playing I have no problem except for the leaderheads and dark terrain but basically do the test with the Revolutionary War scenario and see what kind of results you get.
dougpat76@aol.com

If you do not want to mess around with Technology-XML-Files (like me, because I do not want to mod my game that much that I have to reinstall it ;-)) here is the World-Builder-Step-By-Step FYI for all Intel 8xx-Chipset-Users with black terrain:

1. Start a game -> You should have black terrain now
2. Open Main Menu/Open World Builder
3. In the World Builder click on the Icon "Reveal Tile Mode"
4. Continue and Click on the Icon "Reveal All Tiles"
5. Exit The World Builder

-> You should see the entire map now, though a little darker. But whether a patch comes or not: you can play this civ of the civs now! :crazyeye:

6. Have fun!

Publius

there is another workaround that makes more sense. because the fog is actually unrevealed at the center of the map instead of where your settlers start, i suggest you "move" yours settler or scout to the center of the map(hopefully its not ocean).

if we use the map visible tech, fog of war still does not work correctly.

hi there, I have the same problem, namely using ONLY a laptop (w/o desktop alternative) with an intel 8xx chipset. I bought the game, and did not pay attention to the t&l requirement, so when I found out why the tiles were black, I was a little bit pisxxxx... I know that my machine is not knew (it's 2 years now) and I do not expect things like doom3 or hl2 to run. but civ??? and, btw: I can run ms flightsim 2004 on medium details, and I would think that this needs a lot more graph power than civ4.

@ firaxis: I would expect that most people who spend like €45 for the game are in their late 20s or older, bacause they know and loved the whole civ and ac series. those people start to have the money, so they do not need to care about the €45, while at the same time they are not willing to buy no machines only for the games to run. I need my laptop for other stuff, running mathematica, gauss or things like that, and I believe that those apps will still run in 5 years, while even a chess game will not run anymore.

so: thanks a lot for the "reveal world" idea, I will try it tonight!

It's not so much you dont have the power to play, its that your missing a rendering tool in your hardware.

It's not so much you dont have the power to play, its that your missing a rendering tool in your hardware.

I think he knows the T&L-stuff. At least he wrote it *g*

He wanted to stress: That we get this game to work thus simply shows that missing T&L can not be such a great deal.

The main problem I see is that Civ, that is attracting a lot of persons that do not play other current state-of-the-graphics-art-games, are excluded just because they miss T&L on their Notebooks that normally would play without complications, just some kind of slowly ;), almost every game.
That we see a black map is simply because it seems to consist of three layers that are shuffled over one and another via T&L somehow: Unexplored, fog and the "action"-map. Seems do be a great technical deal, eh :)?

At least we can disable the unexplored map in some way and play the game, seeing units and all other stuff on a fog-of-war map.

You're completely insane. Do you realize that even though you might have bought your laptop in 2003 it might have been built in 2001? Ever think about that? And my computer, which I bought 3 years ago, still runs Civ 4 on the higher settings. It's an AMD processor w/ a Geforce 5 I think.

The reason I was "being rude" was because you were assaulting Firaxis - which is totally unwaranted. It's not Firaxis's fault that your computer sucks. Keep in mind that Civ 4 takes a very slow computer to run anyway EVEN THOUGH IT CAME OUT IN 2005. The Gfx aren't amazing or anything, and that being said, newer games like Quake 4 or Fear take a pc that's ten times faster than Civ 4. Now, if your computer is so outdated that it can't even run Civ 4, I don't know what to tell you.

Go play PS2 or something.

That's all great for you as you seem to be mostly a gamer on your computer. I also bought my laptop within the last year (not a closeout deal either), and granted, I did buy it mostly for work. But I had always been a loyal customer to Firaxis because their games worked with less graphic requirements. In fact, the reason I bought this game was one of the producers noted in an online pre-release video that "we don't want to make games that require all the latest hardware" to be playable. In fact, I think it was one of the pre-release videos linked from this site. Yet here we are.

I do have a desktop to play Civ 4 on and have enjoyed the game, but 80% of the time I am on the road with my laptop, and, well, it sucks that they would not support Intel integrated video older than 1 generation. I went to CompUSA to check on their current stock of laptops, and over 50% are still using Intel 8xx series.

Do you really see it being that "crazy"? High end graphics were never the beauty of any of the Civ games. If I wanted high end graphics, I WOULD play a PS2..... It's a hell of a lot cheaper.

I can't stand the people who are just acting wise and teaching everyone how stupid it is to buy a laptop with a poor graphic card! Perhaps you don't realize, but many people buy computers for working purposes mainly and don't give a **** about graphics because it doesn't matter for most applications. So contribute solutions or just stop *****ing!

When daddy pays your gaming computer or you simply have your pc to play with it then you certainly need not see this point of all the other civ players who would never buy high end hardware just because of a game.
Now - this is a game where I am in doubt about my laptop. But I suggest some waiting and may be one or the other problem will be fixed for us. If not - our problem :) And with the next game the problem of Firaxis.

Firaxis will know this problems. They chose T&L for development costs and performance reasons. For sure. But I wonder if 10.000 $ reduced costs for implementing Fog of War with T&L is worth the trouble? :-)

/edit: 10.000 is just some number, do not take it serious :)

I just watned to say thanks to everyone who is contributing useful workarounds to this problem. Someone should compile a list of all Intel 8xx workarounds. I wanted to echo the notion that not all of us are 13 year old spoiled brats that get a new video card every 2 months from daddy.

I am a student and the laptop I am using was recommended by the university. Firaxis is going to make money no matter what and I respect their business decision to use T&L. Still, I wish they had realized that there are MANY civ gamers who are not WoW-playing click-fest 13-year olds, but older folks who like the slow-paced nature of Civ, and older folks usually have a job or school and don't have time or energy to focus on the latest 4D renderer. I also find it ironic that Civ was meant to reach civ-newbies, but the decision to force T&L is going to cut into that market. I was actually going to recommend civ4 to my friend who never plays PC games, but now I can't b/c I"m pretty sure he doesn't have T&L.

Does the <bMapVisible> workaround lead to the same result as the Worldbuilder workaround?

Yes it does.

As an explanaition: The bMapVisible-Flag in the technology file reveals all tiles. The purpose of this flag is to enable a technology (Satellites) to do this.

The world builder does the same, but is not changing the rules of the game. Those you will have to fix (maybe re-install the game) manually if there should be a T&L-Fix and want to explore the map yourself.
Though you have to reveal the map in the World Builder every time you start a game whereas the bMapVisible-solution need not be done more than once.

Point is that people were not paying attention when purchasing laptops. It is their own fault. There are laptops out there that cost $50 to $100 more; that have GeForce or Radeon; and virtually all of them are capable of running CIV IV.

When assessing the right laptop, one must be aware that the graphic card you get it with it cannot be replaced.

Blame yourself and intel for your situation. Next time - get AMD and nvidia laptop.

It is funny that you say this. I am one of the people that paid attention to details. My HP laptop has a Radeon IGP 345M their most sophisticated laptop video availiable. It still however does NOT run Civ 4. Firaxis has made a mistake here, and I am confident that they will rectify it. As the volume in the forum proves there are MANY laptop users in the Civ family. I do hope that they come to some soilution to help us that use laptops.

The worldbuilder works for me on an 8xxxx chipset. I am going to try it on my work laptop (they're not terribly strict here about it) as it has a 9xx chipset.

It is terribly slow on my wife's laptop, but that doesn't surprise me. She has a ton of junk on it and it's older...2ghz celeron.

I did notice that turning down graphic details did nothing for the framerate. Does anyone have any suggestions about manual tweks to turn stuff off?

Good news for those that don't have video cards

My Dell Desktop computer has
3 GigaHertz Pentium 4 HT processor
512 RAM
82915G Express Intel video hardware

The games runs slightly sluggishly (though partly from a memory leak I am thinking). All the in game graphics and animations work great on the highest detail level.

The intro movie and wonders movies do not work at all (just black or distorted screen with sound working) but do not crash the game or anything (just hit escape to skip them).

I have played other games (with fancier 3D graphics) with no problems so I am hoping that a patch will speed things up for civ4.

Ran the game on a laptop with an Intel 852/855 GM chipset to see what it would do. The leaders were doing the Chesire cat thing, and the terrain was all black. You'll need to upgrade.

Ran it on an Acer laptop with an Intel 82852/82855 GM and had exactly the same trouble. Tried to set graphic options of CIV at lowest level without success. Tried deactivating all the hardware acceleration and no success too (CIV refused to start saying "Error initiate rendering engine or something like that ...) :mad:

Oh and BTW very clever description about the leaders :goodjob: I was trying to figure how to describe that when I saw your post.

Hi!

Civ4 work well with my laptop with a Intel GMA 900(based on the Intel 915).
The lastest driver from Intel is working good with the game.

See ya,

The worldbuilder works for me on an 8xxxx chipset. I am going to try it on my work laptop (they're not terribly strict here about it) as it has a 9xx chipset.

It is terribly slow on my wife's laptop, but that doesn't surprise me. She has a ton of junk on it and it's older...2ghz celeron.

I did notice that turning down graphic details did nothing for the framerate. Does anyone have any suggestions about manual tweks to turn stuff off?

Hi!

Civ4 work well with my laptop with a Intel GMA 900(based on the Intel 915).
The lastest driver from Intel is working good with the game.

See ya,


i have the intel 915.... so it will work? (assuming all other requirements are over recommended, which they are...)

Yep!! Set the graphics to medium and it works well... Dont have try a full game for now but i'll try tonight.

I have 512 ram, Pentium M 715.( Equal a P4 2.1ghz)

See ya,



i have the intel 915.... so it will work? (assuming all other requirements are over recommended, which they are...)

If you have a Intel card this is worth reading. I have the black terrain on normal civ games but when I access the Revolutionary War scennario the terrain and game look visually perfect. This leads to me believe that the Intel card is not the problem. Also on page 188 of the manual Soren Johnson thanks the testers and mentions " terrible crash bugs, gaps in communications, system incompatibilities, invisible terrain, and worse." Say that again. Invisible terrain. This reminds me of Pirates when the Dutch captain was invisible in the beginning of the game. Also your character was like a Terminator 2 bronze liquid substance. That was corrected in the patch. I've played 2 games of Civ4 so far by using the map mod to remove the tile blackness. While playing I have no problem except for the leaderheads and dark terrain but basically do the test with the Revolutionary War scenario and see what kind of results you get.
dougpat76@aol.com
Thanx Son of Sid :goodjob: (Btw what is your card? An 82852/82855 like mine?)
I think this news bring us a step closer... If this test result is consistent - unfortunately I cannot test this myself yet - then that will prove a fully-correcting software solution is possible (because one variant of the game seems fully functional with Intel cards)! But it is also possible that such a SW solution is too expensive/complicated to implement. That's an open question. I hope the folks at Firaxis see this and can offer us a patch sometime. Intel's cards may not support T&L but they do admit a SW fix by game maker may work! I'm crossing my fingers it is merely a matter of Firaxis adding some extra lines of code to the game so it runs properly on our particular machines. :D

There's always hope - I'm willing to wait. :)

hi there again, as I said I have the old intel 8xx chipset and "only" 512m ram on my acer travelmate. I used the worldbuilder and played the whole game, and it did not even crash once (on lowest details, though I do not know how higher details will work). even the videos were playing, though sound and pictures were kind of uncoordinated (but I already had that in ac a couple of years ago on my old machine - most likely due to lack of ram). its still fun, and I am going to keep the game for that reason. so, where I live, today is holiday (all saints or something), guess what I will be doing!

Hi,
I have an intel 8xxxx video card and i see the black terrain too. But when I was trying to solve the problem changing resolutions and everything I could and restarting the game thousands of times a curious thing occured: In 1 game I could see a small square of 4 or 6 tilles perfectly on the upper left corner of the screen. But if I tried to move my vision to this place the "illuminated" zone already moved, staying always on the upper left corner.

Then I started to move my settler and my worker around. I saw that if I moved them in south-east direction, my visible area grew. After trying some other things I've deduced one thing some of you already know:

Intel 8xxxx video cards can perfectly show the terrain, the real problem is the fog of war. It is not fixed on the terrain, it moves (yes, moves across the terrain) as you move. So, you always have the same portion of fog of war darking your screen. If you explore this small zone, then you can see all the map (because the fog of war moves with you, as said).

Then the question: Isn't it fixable with a patch? It doesn't seem a base error that would need a total rebuilding of the game to be solved... I hope!

Ghost leaders and introduction's sound problem: I don't know if this problems are related with the other one or not, and maybe this are more difficult to solve, but they aren't critical, so I don't worry about if this is fixable or not.

I have an intel 8xxxx video card and i see the black terrain too. But when I was trying to solve the problem changing resolutions and everything I could and restarting the game thousands of times a curious thing occured: In 1 game I could see a small square of 4 or 6 tilles perfectly on the upper left corner of the screen. But if I tried to move my vision to this place the "illuminated" zone already moved, staying always on the upper left corner.

Then I started to move my settler and my worker around. I saw that if I moved them in south-east direction, my visible area grew. After trying some other things I've deduced one thing some of you already know:

Intel 8xxxx video cards can perfectly show the terrain, the real problem is the fog of war. It is not fixed on the terrain, it moves (yes, moves across the terrain) as you move. So, you always have the same portion of fog of war darking your screen. If you explore this small zone, then you can see all the map (because the fog of war moves with you, as said).

Then the question: Isn't it fixable with a patch? It doesn't seem a base error that would need a total rebuilding of the game to be solved... I hope!

Ghost leaders and introduction's sound problem: I don't know if this problems are related with the other one or not, and maybe this are more difficult to solve, but they aren't critical, so I don't worry about if this is fixable or not.


I would just like to know if a fix for the Intel 828 series is even possible.
I wish we could hear from someone with experience in the gaming industry to tell us.
I've heard every possible answer in so many different forums. Unfortunately, a typical response to this question is, "you shouldn't have been stupid enough to buy a computer with an integrated graphics chip. You're such an ignorant bastard. I hope you and your family die!" I wish I were joking, but that really isn't much of an exaggeration.
All I'd like is a simple, "yes, it is possible. Here's why..." or a "no it isn't possible. Here's why..."
By this point, everyone here has already heard why we shouldn't buy Intel products, that they're evil, they eat babies, they're the Antichrist, blah blah blah...I don't give a fu*k anymore, I just want to know if a solution if possible! PLEASE!

Never mind...I found this in another thread. It's from Apolyton(I'm told) and purportedly one of the scenario developers at Firaxis...

The T&L issue is a hardware requirement, it is necessary to be able to play the game, this was announced over 6 months ago. If your graphics card is so crappy it doesn't support T&L (and this is true for many Intel cards -- if you're a gamer you shouldn't have an Intel card to begin with), you're out of luck. It's simply not possible to include T&L support for this game without rewriting large sections of it, killing a couple of features and taking a big hit on performance. If it was possible it would've been done from the start.


While not an "offical" answer from Firaxis, I'm becoming more disheartened that a fix will not happen.
I'll give them one more day, but then I have to take the game back. It may just be in-store credit, but at least I can pick up the newest Star Wars PS2 game. <sigh> Not the same, though.

Dell 2200
Celeron 1.4GHz
512MB
910/915 Intel graphic chipset

Works fine after a buggy install. Had to delete files manually and then re-install. I was stunned when the tutorial ran without major problems. The videos are a little glitchy but run okay 95% of the time. I reduced the graphic settings to medium (tutorial ran a-ok on high).

Standard map size, standard number of civs in the game... ran okay till 1972 and then there was a massive slow-down. I saved the game and loaded it up the next day... and promptly got my butt kicked by the AI. ;)

I know that for Sid Myers Pirates, also by Firaxis games, probably teh same engine, my GF's computer would crash suddenly, and that was due to the lack of T&L by the 8 series Intel Chipset for her video card

I think this will be no different.

I am also playing Civ IV with an Intel 8XXX with the "reveal map" trick.

The thing that still bugs me:

- Darkened map
- Resources not visible (but have turned on the "show resources" function - still it would be nice to see th actual figures there)

What I just don't understand is, when I enter World Builder or toggle "Bare Map", the map looks beautiful as it was meant to be - so clearly my machine / graphics card can handle / process this correctly.

WHY OH WHY can't Firaxis come up with a patch so the rest of us can enjoy this game the way it was meant to be played????

GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

WHY OH WHY can't Firaxis come up with a patch so the rest of us can enjoy this game the way it was meant to be played????

GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

So.... Firaxis puts a game on the market that says:

"Graphics Card with Hardware T&L required".

And you in turn say:

"I don't care. I will buy it anyways, and will now expect Firaxis to fix it for me, even though I have less then the system requirements!

To that, I will say.....

"Phat chance". ;)

Are you completely insane? Do you complain to Sony that a PS2 game doesn't work on a PS1? Please, you're making my brain hurt. I'm sorry to be the first one to tell you this: Your computer sucks. It's not Firaxis's fault that you're running outdated technology. Grow a brain people.


Maybe your brain is different from other people.

You are free to say people's computers suck, but the fact is the game won't run without top-notch hardware. There are a *huge* percentage of users who loved previous CIVs now can't play it.

For me, both my T30 and a newly purchased R52 fail to run the game for different reasons. It's enough for me.

First of all let me say im a long time lurker in these forms, this is my first post. Im in Dublin, Ireland and picked up the game at 5:59 pm yesterday after dashing through traffic, Gamestop closed at 6pm and i was last in the store, there was only one copy left on the shelf :D

Have been anticipating this game for a long time and unfortunately had an inkling i might have probs as i too am plagued with the intel 8XXXX graphic controller but was happy to see that the game seemed install ok despite some sound probs in the intro, menus were beautiful and knew there'd be problems when there was probs displaying the leaderheads and then worst of all....black terrain :(

Anyhow thanks to those that posted the 'reveal tiles' method i was able to paly and enjoy the game despite the slight annoyance of the world being slightly darker and will continue to enjoy it despite the absence of fog of war and leaderheads.

To add to the voices it would be nice if some benevolent person out there was to come up with a patch that might make things a little bit better for us intel 8xxxx chaps! Before everyone else jumps down my throat, as they have with others, i realise now that its minimum spec and if it were not for the fact that im using a laptop id go out and buy a new graphics card to run the game....just my two cents! :rolleyes:

I have the Intel 8xxxx graphics chipset. After playing through the black terrain issue for a while (yes, it's possible, just really annoying) I noticed a few things. 1) the ocean becomes viewable once you've built a boat and 2) the land becomes visiable once you can trade world maps. (This is tenative, based on the games that I have played.) Except for random floating black areas, I can see everything in the game. My graphics are set at HIGH, and I did NOT use the 'all tiles viewable' workaround.
-eSnaffu

For all those with Intel 82865G systems I went out and bought the ATI Radeon 9250 card with 256 MB and everything, and I mean everything, works great. There are many Radeon 9250 cards by other manufacturers than ATI which were less expensive, but I didn't want to risk it so I went with ATI's version. Spent only $99, and yes I know I could have spent less if I ordered it online, but I wasn't willing to wait for delivery.
Please post results if you try another manufacturer other than ATI.

For all those with Intel 82865G systems I went out and bought the ATI Radeon 9250 card with 256 MB and everything, and I mean everything, works great.

GREAT!
Thats really good to hear, and I've got the same chipset.

SO HAPPY CIV-ING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please post results if you try another manufacturer other than ATI.

OK, I was looking at possibly getting Nivida, but I'll keep shopping around as well.
It's good to know that you got a good price also, I may just get the Radeon 9250 now since you got it to work. :lol: :D :D

For all those with Intel 82865G systems I went out and bought the ATI Radeon 9250 card with 256 MB and everything, and I mean everything, works great. There are many Radeon 9250 cards by other manufacturers than ATI which were less expensive, but I didn't want to risk it so I went with ATI's version. Spent only $99, and yes I know I could have spent less if I ordered it online, but I wasn't willing to wait for delivery.
Please post results if you try another manufacturer other than ATI.


Same here, only I just bought the 128 MB one (and I was forced to get the PCI version). Are you playing on highest graphics and 1280 x 1024? When I first ran the game with the new card, it set me to medium with single-figure units, but I changed it to highest, and it actually ran smoother than on medium, which is weird, but I'm not complaining. I haven't gone past about 300 AD (real life is such a pain!), so I'm not sure what will happen when there are a ton of animated windmills everywhere, but I'm sure the card can handle it. Have you played with that card to the modern age?