The editor in civIV is horrible. When I read the previews for the game they all said this would be a modders dream game, more like a nightmare! I'll be the first to admit I'm not expert when it comes to modding but here are just a few of the problems I've noticed.

-you can't change starting locations
-you can't manipulate any of your units attribute example: number of spaces they can move in one turn
-It takes forever to redesign or make a map
-I can't figure out how to change the nationality of a player or if it is even possible.
-In civ 3 you could really mess with each civilization, their aggressiveness, what techs they start with and so on as far as I can tell you can't do that anymore.

These are just a few of the problems I've noticed and I've but I've only had a few hours to play the game. I'm hoping I'm just confused and you guys will tell me it's possible to do all the stuff I just listed, but so far I can't figure out how.

-you can't change starting locations

I don't know how because I haven't opened the world builder yet, but I know you can set and change starting locations. You need that functionality for scenarios and there are multiple scenarios that shipped with the game.

-you can't manipulate any of your units attribute example: number of spaces they can move in one turn

XML.

-It takes forever to redesign or make a map

Good maps always take a lot of time.

-I can't figure out how to change the nationality of a player or if it is even possible.

Again, required for scenarios. I'm sure it's in there somewhere.

-In civ 3 you could really mess with each civilization, their aggressiveness, what techs they start with and so on as far as I can tell you can't do that anymore.

XML.

Well, that's the issue. There is no one editor to make a scenario or affect simple things. You have to: use the World Builder (which is not independently accessible; which does not offer the ability to randomly generate maps freely, you have to exit to main menu and create a new map and start playing to do this); then switch to an XML editor (which can be as simple as textpad), though this requires you to learn how not to screw up the XML; and finally, to learn Python scripts, if you want to be able to create scenarios or alter things in any meaningful way. And all of that STILL isn't it, since the SDK (software development kit) will be released at some point in 2006 that will finally let you do all the rest of the things the first three don't let you do.
I guess the concept of "put out an editor that's powerful yet conceals that power beneath a smooth, simple, easy-to-use interface" is out the window.

No one ever said it would be easy... it's a modder's dream because so much can be changed. But it's nearly impossible to expose so much of the game to change and then expect it all to be in one convenient GUI for you.

You know, actually, I expect them to offer an editor that non-specialists can actually use -- something akin to Civ3's editor. Hell, Morrowind's editor was self-contained and vastly powerful -- and easy to use.

The philosophy is simple: offer something akin to the editor in Civ3, which is more accessible to those nasty, uninformed masses, and also offer up the tools for those who have the skills to do more. Instead, we're offered something that inherently restricts the modding community only to the self-satisfied few -- and oddly enough, that's exactly what Firaxis themselves have said, that they don't want scores of people making "mediocre" scenarios (um, who defines mediocre?) but want those scores of people to work in groups to make "quality" scenarios. So the thought of making an editor that lets those less-skilled have some satisfaction from tinkering with the game's settings and randomly generating and then tinkering with maps -- scratch that. Not like that was popular thing in the past few games anyway, right? (sarcasm off)

if you cant figure out how to mod the XML files, then, well, you should find a new hobby, because this one is over your head. Id much rather have all this stuff exposed to be changed than have a compact editor like in Civ3 for people who cant figure out how to change clearly labeled text files.

You want a fully 100% moddable game with completely seperate and easy to use GUIs that facilitate even the newest players/modders being able to both play and mod the game perfectly right off the bat? Sure, add $5 million and 2 years on top of the cost and time it took to make the base game.

You get power or ease of use, not both, and frankly your Morrowind example sucks. Yes, it's powerful, but it is in fact harder to use while being less powerful than Civ4's already available components.

Have you read Dale's Civ IV Modding Manual? It's stickied at the top of this forum.

Also, here's a cute tip. The saves from the World Builder are in the format: Civ4WorldBuilderSave.
You can open these with any text editor (e.g., NotePad). See Chapter 3 of Dale's Manual.

When you open such a file, this is the sort of thing you'll see (it's from the North Africa mod that Locutus and Dale did):


BeginPlot
x=22,y=11
TerrainType=TERRAIN_COAST
PlotType=3
Team0PlotRevealed=1
Team1PlotRevealed=1
Team2PlotRevealed=1
Team3PlotRevealed=1
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=22,y=12
RouteType=ROUTE_RAILROAD
TerrainType=TERRAIN_PLAINS
PlotType=2
BeginUnit
UnitType=UNIT_BATTLESHIP, UnitOwner=0
Level=3, Experience=0
UnitAIType=UNITAI_ATTACK_SEA
EndUnit
BeginUnit
UnitType=UNIT_DESTROYER, UnitOwner=0
Level=3, Experience=0
UnitAIType=UNITAI_ESCORT_SEA
EndUnit
BeginUnit
UnitType=UNIT_DESTROYER, UnitOwner=0
Level=3, Experience=0
UnitAIType=UNITAI_ESCORT_SEA
EndUnit
BeginUnit
UnitType=UNIT_SUBMARINE, UnitOwner=0
Level=3, Experience=0
UnitAIType=UNITAI_EXPLORE_SEA
EndUnit
BeginUnit
UnitType=UNIT_SUBMARINE, UnitOwner=0
Level=3, Experience=0
UnitAIType=UNITAI_ATTACK_SEA
EndUnit
BeginUnit
UnitType=UNIT_CARRIER, UnitOwner=0
Level=3, Experience=0
UnitAIType=UNITAI_CARRIER_SEA
EndUnit
BeginUnit
UnitType=UNIT_ENGLAND_INF, UnitOwner=0
Level=3, Experience=0
UnitAIType=UNITAI_ATTACK
EndUnit
BeginCity
CityOwner=0
CityName=Valletta
CityPopulation=2
CityCulture=100
ProductionUnit=UNIT_ENGLAND_INF
BuildingType=BUILDING_WALLS
BuildingType=BUILDING_CASTLE
BuildingType=BUILDING_BARRACKS
EndCity
Team0PlotRevealed=1
Team1PlotRevealed=1
Team2PlotRevealed=1
Team3PlotRevealed=1
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=22,y=13
TerrainType=TERRAIN_COAST
PlotType=3
Team0PlotRevealed=1
Team1PlotRevealed=1
Team2PlotRevealed=1
Team3PlotRevealed=1
EndPlot


And now you can easily edit it.

The editor in civIV is horrible. When I read the previews for the game they all said this would be a modders dream game, more like a nightmare! I'll be the first to admit I'm not expert when it comes to modding but here are just a few of the problems I've noticed.

[quote]-you can't change starting locations Yes you can. Read my manual at the top of the forum. :)
-you can't manipulate any of your units attribute example: number of spaces they can move in one turn A simple matter of opening Civ4Units.xml and changing whatever value you want.
-It takes forever to redesign or make a map If you mean it's slow and unresponsive, then don't try to mod massive maps on a crap computer. ;)
-I can't figure out how to change the nationality of a player or if it is even possible. Open the Civ4WorldBuilderSave file you save out of the WBS and change the nationality there. That simple. :)
-In civ 3 you could really mess with each civilization, their aggressiveness, what techs they start with and so on as far as I can tell you can't do that anymore. Techs can be changed in the WBS. RTFM at the top of this forum.

These are just a few of the problems I've noticed and I've but I've only had a few hours to play the game. I'm hoping I'm just confused and you guys will tell me it's possible to do all the stuff I just listed, but so far I can't figure out how.

You cannot expect to know all of the modding features in Civ4. It will take you six months to find everything. I started the beta program at the start of the year, and I'm still finding new things/ways to mod. And that's after 10 months! So keep at it. You won't be disappointed if you put in a little research. :)

Dale

Ok well maybe I jumped the gun a little but I am so frustrated right now all I really want to do is play a game with the real world that has America as one of its civs and for the life of me I can't figure out how to do it.

Dale thanks for the help but I'm still confused, up until yesterday I thought i was a pretty smart guy, I got a college degree and everything:), but this game so far has cooked my goose. I'll keep plugin away but any help would be much appreciated.

If someone could just tell me how I add the America civ into the earth 1000ad I would be forever in there debt.

I'm really disappointed that it's not self-contained. :(

When you open such a file, this is the sort of thing you'll see (it's from the North Africa mod that Locutus and Dale did):
:love:
Goodbye, World Builder. :D

Isn't it amazing to see how much power a user with Notepad can wield? :cool: