:) There it has been said!:)

I am pissed off about it too, but I'm waiting to see what the SDK will allow us unit creators to do, if anything.

...what? No game of the series ever gave the player the ability to customize units and buildings. :hmm:

Cya. Don't let the door hit you. Or facts, for that matter, since you don't know what you're talking about (as usual).

Sure they do, Civ3!. Down there we have thousands of new buildings, units and new leaderheads just waiting to be added to the game. Civ4 has nothing, and we aren't sure if there will even be the possibility of adding units without having to buy a program that costs thousands of dollars.

New units can be added by modding the XML files. Don't know how exactly, but there's a whole thread about it. Look for it.

Shut up. The game's not crap just because you can't figure out how to add custom units/buildings... :hmm:

There are no new units to add that is the entire point. That is why the game is crap right now. Compared with Civ3, which has thousands of new units availible.

Civ3 didn't have any decent units available for almost a year and only in the last year did we start getting the really incredible units. Stuff it, SoG. The game has been out for 3 days and you're *****ing and moaning and carrying on like a spoiled brat. If you can't be constructive you have no business in this forum, thanks. And I know you have a problem being constructive.

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what your talking about.

My entire point is that people are trading in Civ3, with everything it has, for a new game. 3-D graphics do not make a good game, lots of content does, and that is what the modding community provided for Civ3. Without new units you cannot have a mod, so I'm not even sure why this Creation and Customization board is here.

Honestly it goes to show you how far society has fallen when people insult others and tell them to shut up if they don't agree with them. That isn't argueing or discussing intelligently. And curses are only used by those who lack conversation skills.

Chill out, Swoggie. Civ3's massive graphics collection isn't going to appear out of thin air. It takes time and effort to make this stuff, or even figure out how to make it, and you could help instead of bailing out until the rest of us build up our resources. Where would Civ3 be if Moeniir had waited for custom units instead of figuring out how the FLCs worked and making a program to export them?

Good point Weasal. I just feel all my work learning to make things for Civ3 was for nothing. I feel useless again if you know what I mean. I will try to get Civ4 soon and see what I can do.

A person can add *new* units to CivIV thru XML using the stock Civ4 3D models, but you cannot add new 3D models for new units as of yet. And yes, you can add custom units and graphics to Civ3.

Now, if someone likes the game, that is fine. I have no problem with people enjoying CivIV, and I don't expect them to share my feelings. It just didn't live up to my personal expectations.

Has this been confirmed? The only thing that makes Civ 4 good was the massive amounts of custom units, graphics, mods, buildings, leaderheads, etc....

If Civ 4 does not give the abality to do this then screw it I'm sticking to Civ 3

Good point Weasal. I just feel all my work learning to make things for Civ3 was for nothing. I feel useless again if you know what I mean. I will try to get Civ4 soon and see what I can do.

All this and you don't even have the game yet? :rotfl:

There are no new units to add that is the entire point. That is why the game is crap right now. Compared with Civ3, which has thousands of new units availible.
How will we ever get new units to add if everyone thinks like you? Rome wasn't build in a day and neither will the C&C forum. Theres alot more modders will be able to do with Civ4 vs. Civ3, I mean with all the codeing and junk and Civ4 is (from what I've heard) all-around a better game so it has the potential to surpass what Civ3 is right now. The last thing we need is people like you discouraging people from trying to make units and buildings for Civ4. Obviously right now, things are slow (the games only been out for a few days...) and no ones quite sure how to tackle the task of custom graphics/models, but in time we'll figure it out, just like for how we discovered new techniques and more efficient ways of creating graphics for Civ3 (and got more members interested in participation). So, SoG, I understand where your coming from and your frustration, but try to see it from a differant angle :)

My computer doesn't have a video card, so I can't play it yet. Just alittle frustrated I suppose...lol

I will tell you this though, that once and if it is possible, I will be bringing my few Civ3 units in as Civ4 units. There will be alot of work ahead to create a vast libraury for Civ4, but I will do my part.

And here I am thinking I've only had the game 3 days... Shame on me and everyone else in the community for not having any units or anything substantial created yet. :crazyeye:

Rome wasn't build in a day and neither will the C&C forum.
Well, actually... :p

You're right though, it will take some time. Go back to Civ3 C&C and find posts from 2 days after the release. I guarantee you they were more clueless than we are now.

Having said that, at least we can reskin units for now. I don't know about you guys, but I'm glad for that ATI bug. Otherwise we might not have had access to the Firaxis art. :D

I wouldn't be too quick to judge Civ4. It's far too early to say anything as it has only been released for a few days and there's very little we know about what we can do with it. I didn't even get into modding Civ3 until two and a half years after its release. :p Indeed, I am very disappointed that everything is in 3d now. It's very likely that I probably will not be able to make any new city graphics (and it is highly unlikely that any of my Bryce stuff could be used) and will be stuck with the horrid and overly generic looking city graphics of vanilla Civ4. Nonetheless, I must admit that I am very intrigued by the possibilities Civ4 has to offer.

But since some have mentioned that reskinning shouldn't be too much of a hassle, my way of pixel-by-pixel may actually be useful here ;) . I suppose Civ4 isn't going to put me entirely out of business. Once I get Civ4, I'll see what I can do with the unit skins since I do have a DDS converter. :)

For most people, the game is more important than what the units look like. Personally, I am not going back to Civ 3 because I wasn't keen on it and I already stopped playing it some time ago.

I pre-ordered Civ 4 but haven't got it yet. From what I hear, it mostly sounds like an improvement and worth playing -- whether the units are customizable or not.

What the hell are you people talking about? The units seem very clear-cut to add (graphics wise), just look in C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Mods\American Revolution\Assets\Art\Units\Continental_Regular , I am 96% sure the odd files in that folder are unit meshes.

Don’t blame the game developers for not saying in 1998!

All I can guess is that a plug-in for Maya and 3DS Studio will be available soon for download. That should get the art rolling in. :)

Dale

I am pissed off about it too, but I'm waiting to see what the SDK will allow us unit creators to do, if anything.

vingrjoe,

In CIV 3 you can add a new unit by renaming a standard unit
and giving it new stats in less than a minute.

How much time will such a operation consume in CIV 4?
(It will take 10 days until I get CIV 4.)

Rocoteh

What the hell are you people talking about? The units seem very clear-cut to add (graphics wise), just look in C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Mods\American Revolution\Assets\Art\Units\Continental_Regular , I am 96% sure the odd files in that folder are unit meshes.

Don’t blame the game developers for not saying in 1998!
How about you tell us how to get a unit from a 3D program to the game then :P - just because you can see what files there are doesn't make you able to make them...

Though, as Dale said, there will probably be plugins coming out. I only hope they can make it so you don't have to fork out loadsa cash to be able to make units.

New units can be added by modding the XML files. Don't know how exactly, but there's a whole thread about it. Look for it.

Shut up. The game's not crap just because you can't figure out how to add custom units/buildings... :hmm:

Amen to that!

I was originally going to remain as a lurker. I spend a good deal of time at the Freedom Force forums and am involved in modding for that game, so I did not want to get too involved in this one, although I am a longtime fan of the series.

This panicked discussion has compelled me to reply, however. You see, Freedom Force uses the same basic graphics system as Civ 4. Hundreds of new hero and object models have been made for that game. Thousands of skins have also been made.

There are three basic ways of creating a new unit graphic using this system.

1. Simply change the skin. It is amazing how different the same model or shape can look with a different skin. Since the skin itself is 2d, anyone with any artistic talent whatsoever can make skins.

2. Hex edit the model. There are hundreds of hex editors available for free. By hexing the model, you can remove parts of it, or change sizes or proportions. For instance, take the standard warrior and hex them to be more muscular, with longer arms, and reskin them, and you would have decent ape-man. I am sure I could get members of the Freedom Force community to help teach some of you hexing if necessary.

3. Make a whole new model. This is more complicated, and, at least for Freedom Force, does require more expensive software. Each new model, however, can in turn be hexed, yielding many more.

In addition, in some cases, keyframes from one mesh can be transfered to another allowing for more posibilites. So don't worry. Given time, a plethora of new things will be available. Expecially given how much larger the Civ community is compared to the FF one.

I just want to say something very simple: There is a world of difference between the game not allowing yo to do something and you not wanting to take the time to learn how to do it... it's like getting behind the wheel for the first time in your life and then blaming the car when you can't parallel park on your first shot.

Dont you guys think you should learn to play the game before trying to change it? I assume none of you complainers have it yet because if you did you would know Civ 4 is not Civ 3 with 3D graphics. Its a different game and experience in playing this new game will yield the best results in creating new units for it. I assume that is how we got all of the outstanding work that we now see for Civ 3.

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what your talking about.

My entire point is that people are trading in Civ3, with everything it has, for a new game. 3-D graphics do not make a good game, lots of content does, and that is what the modding community provided for Civ3. Without new units you cannot have a mod, so I'm not even sure why this Creation and Customization board is here.

Honestly it goes to show you how far society has fallen when people insult others and tell them to shut up if they don't agree with them. That isn't argueing or discussing intelligently. And curses are only used by those who lack conversation skills.

All great mods start with a single pixel. :) (or polygon)

Well, Civ4 is still very new, and it's actually waiting for modders like you to make graphics. If you want new units, then make them. (Provided you have a couple hundred, or thousand to spare...)

DP by a mod? :crazyeye:

After all they've promised re: modability, they better allow us to import new units to the game.

Anyway, I'm waiting a bit before buying. Hopefully, this will be all cleared up by then.

My entire point is that people are trading in Civ3, with everything it has, for a new game. 3-D graphics do not make a good game, lots of content does, and that is what the modding community provided for Civ3. Without new units you cannot have a mod, so I'm not even sure why this Creation and Customization board is here.
so wait...you're saying there's no point in modding civ 4 because it's based on a 3d engine? or are you saying that the engine is unable to import custom models or textures (which it can)? I think there will be a lot more content available because of the 3d engine...I never taken a glance at previous civ games but because of the 3d engine it got me much more interested in the game and I've logged about 20+ hours into the game in 3 days...and because it's a 3d engine I think content will be easy to make for people who worked with 3d in unrelated games...like myself for example...I've done a lot of work with unreal tournament 2004 and making custom models is stuff I like to do...I've been kicking around a few model ideas and certainly I'll give it an attempt...

vingrjoe,

In CIV 3 you can add a new unit by renaming a standard unit
and giving it new stats in less than a minute.

How much time will such a operation consume in CIV 4?
(It will take 10 days until I get CIV 4.)

Rocoteh

Hmmm, I've been browsing the files, and this is my rough guess on how to 'add' a new unit, using CivIV's existing unit model base.

-unpack the Art0.fpk using the unpacking utility on CivIV's website
-follow the directions for moving the files
-make a copy of the art folder of the unit you want to copy and rename it
-make a copy of the unit's text and rename it in the Civ4UnitClassinfos XML
-make a copy of the unit's text and rename it in the Civ4UnitInfos XML
-adjust stats accordingly

Now I'm sure I may have missed a step or two...or more.

Of course, if we eventually do get to add our own 3D models, it looks like there may be an average of 16-20 .kf, .kfm and .nif files required for animation per unit.

Humanoid models may be very versatile regarding changing appearances by painting the skins, but no amount of paint on a skin can make a Nimitz class carrier look like an Essex carrier, or a South Dakota class battleship look like the Bismarck.

I think what he is saying is that there is no point making anything new for this game because no one has made anything new for this game. Circular thinking, if you ask me. Give it about a year, maybe two, and this place will be filled with new stuff.

..........................

I'm trying to understand this... so the game has been out for a week, and just because there isn't a couple hundred units already produced, we should scrap it and go back to Civ3??

You know... I modded for Civ2... and in Civ2, making units was as simple as pulling a picture off the internet, scaling it down, and pasting it into a the single picture file that stored all of the graphics. You could do it in MS Paint in about fifteen minutes... Civ3, on the other hand, required animation graphics and it took days, weeks (and for some people months) to produce a single unit. Imagine if (and there was probably someone) people said upon Civ3's release that because there wasn't instantaneous access to every graphic that had been produced in the years that Civ2 was out for Civ3, that we should scrap Civ3 and go back to Civ2.

And remember... even after having been released, Civ3's modding capabilities were lacking to say the least. People called Civ3 a complete betrayal to the modders (myself included). Compared to Civ2, Civ3 was a modding nightmare, and even after Conquests, scenarios were a joke compared to Civ2.

Civ4 has already demonstrated to me that scenarios can be even better than Civ2 scenarios whereas Civ3 never even got close to producing scenarios of comparable quality to Civ2. Not to insult all the people who dedicated a lot of time to making Civ3 scenarios, but Civ3, no matter how much tweaking one did could not provide the capabilities that Civ2 did and Civ4 does.

I have switched to Civ4 because it offers the hope of producing the kind of mod that I've always wanted. Civ3 fell short in that aspiration. So I can't do it today... so what? I'll learn, I'll work, I'll build... just like we all did for Civ3. The unit graphics libraries of Civ3 weren't built in a day... all of the modding tools for Civ3 took years of patches and expansion packs to be made available...

Personally, I think there is a portion of the population who subconciously wanted to have Civ4 from the very moment they found out it was being made. They wanted to hate it because it was new. They wanted it to fail because they love what is familiar. Fine. Civ3 is still around and if that's what suits you, then continue to work with Civ3. But do not come in here and complain and discourage people from modding in Civ4, and do not proclaim your way to be the best and just say everybody should quit what they're doing and get back to making stuff that helps you.

I think this whole damn thread ought to be deleted.

The ironic thing is that SoG recently posted a thread in CivIII C&C saying CivIII is 'dead', because everyone is going to CivIV. One could think he doesn't want any customization to be done at all.

Hmmm, I've been browsing the files, and this is my rough guess on how to 'add' a new unit, using CivIV's existing unit model base.

-unpack the Art0.fpk using the unpacking utility on CivIV's website
-follow the directions for moving the files
-make a copy of the art folder of the unit you want to copy and rename it
-make a copy of the unit's text and rename it in the Civ4UnitClassinfos XML
-make a copy of the unit's text and rename it in the Civ4UnitInfos XML
-adjust stats accordingly

Now I'm sure I may have missed a step or two...or more.

Of course, if we eventually do get to add our own 3D models, it looks like there may be an average of 16-20 .kf, .kfm and .nif files required for animation per unit.

Humanoid models may be very versatile regarding changing appearances by painting the skins, but no amount of paint on a skin can make a Nimitz class carrier look like an Essex carrier, or a South Dakota class battleship look like the Bismarck.

vingrjoe,

Thank you for the info.

I appreciate it.

Rocoteh

That's not what I'm saying. If one wants to, you can make a "new" unit but are confined to using Firaxis stock 3D models at this point. Also, painting a skin has it's limits for changing unit appearance.

I wasn't talking about you, VikingJoe. I think we both replied at exactly the same time. I was comenting on Pointless's response above.

And, as I said, there is a technique called mesh hexing which allows you to substantially modify meshes.

Sorry 'bout that catwhowlksbyhi. These threads get crazy when there are a couple converstions going on at once.

For most people, the game is more important than what the units look like. Personally, I am not going back to Civ 3 because I wasn't keen on it and I already stopped playing it some time ago.

I pre-ordered Civ 4 but haven't got it yet. From what I hear, it mostly sounds like an improvement and worth playing -- whether the units are customizable or not.

sanitly words among gibbering paranoids

Er...this thread somehow reminds me of those ppl who go to the restaurant, order a fine meal and upon receival add salt and pepper and vinegar before having tried what the "unmodded" food was like.
Imo it's a bit soon for a)saying you can't add new units and b)for adding new units.
Wait until it's a week old or so, then start...*g*

There's nothing wrong with wanting to take it apart and figure out how it works from the moment you take it out of the box... the problem is when you're not even willing to learn how it works... and then turn around and start criticizing everyone else when you could just as easily have gotten frustrated, given up and tossed it aside quietly without exposing the size of your ego by announcing to everyone that you're not taking part...

It's like a four-year-old who wants everybody to know that he's upset about something and that we all have to stop what we're doing and pay attention to him.

I mean, I'm sure there are a number of people who have decided they want to hold on to Civ3 for a while... but they have the common decency and good sense not to make a public spectacle of themselves.

It's like a four-year-old who wants everybody to know that he's upset about something and that we all have to stop what we're doing and pay attention to him.

I mean, I'm sure there are a number of people who have decided they want to hold on to Civ3 for a while... but they have the common decency and good sense not to make a public spectacle of themselves.
Nicely put :)

If you poeple think that civilization 4 is hard to modify and you want to stick to Civilization 3, then just do it but there is no reason to make a public statement that everyone should just stick with civilization 3 becuase you think civilization 4 crap.

It doesn't? I'll still buy this, because maybe you overlooked something, and I can return it, you know. Then, I'll just continue working on a mod I stopped a while ago on Civ3. :p

Lord Shadow, pull your head out of your rear end. As you said, you can add *new* units to CivIV thru XML using the stock Civ4 3D models, but you cannot add new 3D models for new units as of yet. And yes, you can add custom units and graphics to Civ3. I don't recognize you as a unit creator. So before you open your mouth about unit creation, fully understand what you're talking about. Now, if you like the game, that is fine. I have no problem with people enjoying CivIV, and I don't expect them to share my feelings. It just didn't live up to my personal expectations.
I meant by default, within the game, like in SMAC, not through modding. You could always mod almost everything. The original poster expected hundreds of unit models already made and just waiting to be added into Civ4. Here's some news: units don't miraculously appear out of nowhere, someone has to make them!

I never talked about models in my post, nor I said anything to you because you don't like the game.

Good job, insulting me for stuff I didn't even say. It seems you are the one with the head stuck in that place. :rolleyes:

Lord Shadow, I apologize to you.

I got a different impression from your post than what you meant to imply.

Well I've been doing alittle thinking. Does any of the other poser people know if Poser can export in Nif format..I think Poser 6 can..

Bah! My copy is at home or I would know. Good luck converting and unit making!

PS: people who want to stick with the vanilla graphics: BAH! You fools! Vanilla is the base model version from which our modders work to create art. Its like a canvas!

Give them a few weeks and then see if you want to stick with out of the box pictures ;p

Well I can say that there will be probably two methods of unit creation here when the tools become availilbe to make them: 1. Reskinned units, like what you can see in Freedom Force, and 2. Completely new units, like in Civ3.

Well I've been doing alittle thinking. Does any of the other poser people know if Poser can export in Nif format..I think Poser 6 can..

I am pretty sure that only Maya/3ds max can export to the NIF file format. Those I do believe Poser does save keyframe animation files so all you would have to do is export the model to maya/3ds max format. Give that along with the keyframe animation files to a person with said program to export into a .nif file.

Well I can say that there will be probably two methods of unit creation here when the tools become availilbe to make them: 1. Reskinned units, like what you can see in Freedom Force, and 2. Completely new units, like in Civ3.

The problem with the whole Civ3 C&C vs Civ4 C&C comparison is the time involved making said graphics. It is going to take more time to creat a unit for example in Civ4 then it did in Civ3. So in the four years that Civ3 has been in ciculation their are thousands of unit, and hundreds of other graphics. Who honestly believes that in that same amount of time there will be equivelent numbers in Civ4?

Unless unit creators are willing to make generic units for others, though do not possess the necessary 3d application or skill, could verily well be talents artistically to make some great looking skins. What Civ4 needs it a base library of units that would allow anyone to reskin them to what they will. Yes I am aware that units could be just reskinned from what people make and upload, but that doesn't mean they wished for it to be changed or modified in any way.

nevermind.

The problem with the whole Civ3 C&C vs Civ4 C&C comparison is the time involved making said graphics. It is going to take more time to creat a unit for example in Civ4 then it did in Civ3. So in the four years that Civ3 has been in ciculation their are thousands of unit, and hundreds of other graphics. Who honestly believes that in that same amount of time there will be equivelent numbers in Civ4?

I'm going to argue with you here (just so you are warned). Firstly, I see no reason why creating a unit for Civ 4 will take any longer that creating one for Civ 3.

There are some things that will take longer, I accept (making the model low enough poly, and probably the textures), but the whole exporting gubbins, with the pallete, and the storyboard, and the rendering.... uurgh, just thinking about it gives me the shivers. Anyway, that whole exporting gubbins will be GONE! That was the main reason I stopped making untis for Civ 3. The first bits were fun, and then you actually had to turn it into a unit, and it was so amazingly boring it hurt.

I think creating units will be an all round more fun experience with Civ 4. I hope that it will be able to be done freely, without having to fork out cash for big programs, but even if it can't, I think the units created will rival the amount created for Civ 3, if not top it.

Like The Great Apple said, it's actually *easier* to make units for a full 3d game than it is to make 3d units for a 2d game. You have to texture the models either way, and you do possibly have to do a little more work lowering poly count (but I bet the Civ4 models are at least a coupleathree k polys), but you completely bypass the conversion step.

Given the same amount of time, I expect the same amount of units or more produced for Civ4. Don't forget that it wasn't until well over a year had passed before the units really started flowing for Civ3.

I think that, we will see more units for Civ4 now that I think about it. Most units will be reskins, but we will probably have completely new units too.

I seriously, seriously doubt you will be able to convert poser models into .nif files.

1) poser meshes are in the 10's of 1000's (I think... ) of polys

2) The civ IV units appear to be no more thatn 200 polys.

Well, even if the civ4 units are low-poly, does that mean the game can't handle more polys or just that poser created units will look out of place?

They were made low-poly so you can play it without a supercomputer. That's why textures are important- they add detail without having a complex model.

So the game can handle them. what would the side effect be?

Really cool looking units that move at 1 FPS :p

The chances of poser units even working on high end machines are about nil.

you may be able to get 1000 or 2000 poly models in civ, (even though it would be the equivilent of 5-10 units on the map at once).

But poser models... It just won't happen. One poser model would be the equivelant of up to 1000 units on the board at once. Poser is not a modelling suite, it is an animation product.

They were made low-poly so you can play it without a supercomputer. That's why textures are important- they add detail without having a complex model.

The animations I have seen are from high poly or subsurfaced meshes.

They may have low poly cages, but they really are high poly models, if you want to even have a chance of converting to .NIF.

I really hate to break it to you, but I just do not see anyone ever writing an export script from poser to .NIF. Poser just would be a poor choice for modelling low poly models.

Blender has an .NIF exporter script... ;) I am thinking of contacting them and offerign a large sum of cash to beef it up. So does Milkshape, I believe it is only mesh at this time.

Blender's says it's animation part is "in progress".

If there is a python guru, here, they could take a look at the current script, and add on to it, until a true unit exporter were built, since Blender uses python.... of course they would need ot know Blender pretty good as well.

There may be a way for the arbiters to reduce the poly count in 3dmax. I just want to create for this game, you understand right Neo?

There may be a way for the arbiters to reduce the poly count in 3dmax. I just want to create for this game, you understand right Neo?

Of course, we all do. :) But reducing poly count on Poser models... I dunno, poly count reduction can greatly distort models, and it messes with the UV mapping pretty bad.

What about creating a new low-poly module for poser? A new Civ4 version of the paper doll?

I wonder if we could request a billboard unit from Firaxis... :mischief:

What about creating a new low-poly module for poser? A new Civ4 version of the paper doll?

Right now there are already many civ IV "paper dolls"

The nice thing about 3d graphic, is you can "re-skin" the unit with a 2d photoshop program and a .dds convertor, as emntioned in a couple of other threads.

So any of the current units could be a base for a paper doll.

I understand that. But that still leaves us out of the loop when it comes to units that couldn't be created using the existing units. For example, units with new weapons, like lasers for example, or mechs. Or units with outfits too different to exist as reskinned for example.

I wonder if we could request a billboard unit from Firaxis... :mischief:

I thought the map would be more dynamic as far as camer views are concerned. Instead, there is no rotation, and a strange zoom, (wierd setup, but works ok)

so I think billboards would be workable... in all reality, like Sim City, there are only a set number of views it seems.... so a "billboard" could be done correctly... if rerendered six more times for the six different views. (i think it is six views) (that would be 8 times 6 = 48 animations per unit action) . This would mean a lot of disk space, but other than that, very little performance difference... maybe... I don't know, (or care) for the gamebryo engine much.... because it is built to be functional on low end computers.

I understand that. But that still leaves us out of the loop when it comes to units that couldn't be created using the existing units. For example, units with new weapons, like lasers for example, or mechs. Or units with outfits too different to exist as reskinned for example.

In which case, paper dolls would be quite useless, and the creator would need to make a new model, or add their own super-low poly accesories... (for example, I could imagine a laser rifle being only an extra 24 triangles).

I thought the map would be more dynamic as far as camer views are concerned. Instead, there is no rotation, and a strange zoom, (wierd setup, but works ok)

There is rotation, but it's pointless. All you can do is twist the camera around 45 degrees, and then it snaps back.
But sometimes the camera rotates during combat. That could be a problem for billboards.

There is rotation, but it's pointless. All you can do is twist the camera around 45 degrees, and then it snaps back.
But sometimes the camera rotates during combat. That could be a problem for billboards.

It would look dumb... I forgot about that auto-zoom thing during battles that does rotate 45 degrees.

I don't suppose it would be possible to use a Python script to make the billboard always face the camera?

2500 posts... I'm done for the night. :crazyeye:

I don't suppose it would be possible to use a Python script to make the billboard always face the camera?

2500 posts... I'm done for the night. :crazyeye:

The point of a billboard IS to always face the camera, by definition.

Then what would be the problem with the camera rotating? (yeah I'm back already)

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what your talking about.

My entire point is that people are trading in Civ3, with everything it has, for a new game. 3-D graphics do not make a good game, lots of content does, and that is what the modding community provided for Civ3. Without new units you cannot have a mod, so I'm not even sure why this Creation and Customization board is here.

Honestly it goes to show you how far society has fallen when people insult others and tell them to shut up if they don't agree with them. That isn't argueing or discussing intelligently. And curses are only used by those who lack conversation skills.

You sir, are a deleted.

Warned for flaming.

a. That was totally unecssary. He was being quite polite. You, sir, are in the wrong here.
b. He seems to have switched from complaining to trying to find a way to solve the problem. Dragging up this old post does nothing but stir up trouble.

I'm a new user in the forums i just bought Civ IV 3 days ago, been playing it xD well got addicted of course, i just went in here to check some stuff and i saw this thread which made me really said, to the Topic Starter: Just because you don't know how to make Units in Civ4 nor how to make 3d Units OR takes too long to make it ? doesn't mean the game is Crap. Hello? for example Blizzard's "Warcraft II" game and "Warcraft III" game a lot of people complained and suggested to make a 3D version of Warcraft II! which is now Warcraft III: Frozen Throne. Which everyone enjoyed and was able to make there own 3d Units. Games like Quake III you can make your own skins and units if your not lazy lol, Warhammer 40k i made my own Marine Starcraft Unit which took me 2 days with a help of my friend and it looked cool and i was happy about it :) and i didn't even have 3d max studio at that time, if i did it would have taken me less than a day for sure lol. If you don't like Civilization being 3D i don't see how you can play new games that are coming out.. Sooner or later Old Games will become extinct and players will move on to the new ones. Look at Starcraft (blizzard game) everyone wants a 3D version of starcraft lol.

Could any moderator rename the thread to something more approriate because you can make units, and buildings just need more information on how to make them.. meaning = time. and the game is not Crap.

This thread does need to be renamed, because SoG has since changed his mind but people still keep responding to the first few posts. It's more like Civ3 vs Civ4 modding now.

I think most of the problem is linked to the fact Civilization IV is sold as a 'customisable' game...

On my box I can read it... I was hoping something like the editor in civilization III, and I am very disapointed...

I think they should not have added this mention and make that as a commercial argument to sell it... cause atm the game is sold with less tools than Civilization III had...

Btw I have looked to the texts... yes it seems to allow a lot of things, but a lot to write... I don't know if there's a debug program included but I hope there's one...
I am familiar of the DDS files, using notepad (= editplus ;)) to mod a game (it is the way to mod the Total war games serie), so I think I would be able to manage all this... we will see, but what is sure, I don't hope a lot of mods with these excellents tools... I was hoping something else than notepad to mod :lol:

Then what would be the problem with the camera rotating? (yeah I'm back already)

The unit would also look like it was rotating.

Note how camera view goes form near isometric to top down when you zoom out. Well, with a billboard, from top down, the unit would still appear in isometric... kind of like it was lying on it's side.

Billboards are usually used for effects like fireballs and smoke, because they are relatively speherical, and no matter what the angle, they look the same.

There are also other types of billboards, that hold their position, used for things like laser beams... but as you would zoom or rotate, their flatness would be come very noticeable.

The only way to use billboards for units, and have them look good would be a locked camera view.

Yes, the title of this thread should be changed. Glad Sword_Of_Geddon has expanded his horizons.

The only way to use billboards for units, and have them look good would be a locked camera view.
That was what somebody (warpstorm I think) suggested when the idea of billboard units first came up. Aren't camera controls in Python domain? And since billboards are just primitives, couldn't we add them now like Gaias did with the sphere?

i guess i can give my two cents here...

first off, i will not pass judgment yet on civ4. to do so at this juncture is silly. sure, it took a long time to learn how to mod civ3 properly and it feels like all of our experience w/ it is null and void. well, that's life. this is how things work in the real world and you either adjust or get off the train.

however, i'm concerned about the actual steps needed to mod civ4, especially adding in units and the like. my point is that i'm afraid that firaxis has made it more difficult for the average modder to create and mod for civ4 when the whole point was to make it more user-friendly for us. iow, i echo Rocoteh's sentiment in that the actual 'time spent', even after we're familiar w/ the protocols, will increase dramatically. now, don't get me wrong, at some point or another, i will try my darndest to make the game like i want it. this obviously will take some time.

lastly, someone noted that the modding ability for civ3 is bunk and that civ2 scenarios were a better over-all product this coming from someone who has never posted a scenario in the forums. well, this is not only a slap in the face to civ3 modders but it completely contradicts the poster's (you know who you are) sentiments about 'stick w/ what ever civ version you want and keep you mouth shut' mentality. i fail to even remotely see your point and i would suggest that you put a lid on it.

i guess i can give my two cents here...

first off, i will not pass judgment yet on civ4. to do so at this juncture is silly. sure, it took a long time to learn how to mod civ3 properly and it feels like all of our experience w/ it is null and void. well, that's life. this is how things work in the real world and you either adjust or get off the train.

however, i'm concerned about the actual steps needed to mod civ4, especially adding in units and the like. my point is that i'm afraid that firaxis has made it more difficult for the average modder to create and mod for civ4 when the whole point was to make it more user-friendly for us. iow, i echo Rocoteh's sentiment in that the actual 'time spent', even after we're familiar w/ the protocols, will increase dramatically. now, don't get me wrong, at some point or another, i will try my darndest to make the game like i want it. this obviously will take some time.

lastly, someone noted that the modding ability for civ3 is bunk and that civ2 scenarios were a better over-all product this coming from someone who has never posted a scenario in the forums. well, this is not only a slap in the face to civ3 modders but it completely contradicts the poster's (you know who you are) sentiments about 'stick w/ what ever civ version you want and keep you mouth shut' mentality. i fail to even remotely see your point and i would suggest that you put a lid on it.

You know everyone can cry about whether a new game is easier or more difficult to mod. But as each generation of games gets more detailed - yes it will be a little more difficult. And that's certainly no reason to stomp on progress. Do we need five thousand mods of varying quality, or fewer better mods? Rome Total War is a good example of the move to true 3d. Some modders cried about it being more difficult to mod new in new units - but hell, I'd gladly take fewer mods of greater detail and quality than what we had before. Rome Total Realism just goes to show that even with greater complexity us modders can still do perform nicely if we want to put the time in.

You know everyone can cry about whether a new game is easier or more difficult to mod. But as each generation of games gets more detailed - yes it will be a little more difficult. And that's certainly no reason to stomp on progress. Do we need five thousand mods of varying quality, or fewer better mods? Rome Total War is a good example of the move to true 3d. Some modders cried about it being more difficult to mod new in new units - but hell, I'd gladly take fewer mods of greater detail and quality than what we had before. Rome Total Realism just goes to show that even with greater complexity us modders can still do perform nicely if we want to put the time in.
and what does this have to do w/ my original statement? :confused:

i guess i can give my two cents here...

first off, i will not pass judgment yet on civ4. to do so at this juncture is silly. sure, it took a long time to learn how to mod civ3 properly and it feels like all of our experience w/ it is null and void. well, that's life. this is how things work in the real world and you either adjust or get off the train.

however, i'm concerned about the actual steps needed to mod civ4, especially adding in units and the like. my point is that i'm afraid that firaxis has made it more difficult for the average modder to create and mod for civ4 when the whole point was to make it more user-friendly for us. iow, i echo Rocoteh's sentiment in that the actual 'time spent', even after we're familiar w/ the protocols, will increase dramatically. now, don't get me wrong, at some point or another, i will try my darndest to make the game like i want it. this obviously will take some time.

lastly, someone noted that the modding ability for civ3 is bunk and that civ2 scenarios were a better over-all product this coming from someone who has never posted a scenario in the forums. well, this is not only a slap in the face to civ3 modders but it completely contradicts the poster's (you know who you are) sentiments about 'stick w/ what ever civ version you want and keep you mouth shut' mentality. i fail to even remotely see your point and i would suggest that you put a lid on it.

El Justo,

I second this 100%.

To be quite frank: I am sick and tired of these people who
spit on CIV 3 scenario creators!

Rocoteh

Not being able to add new units and buildings doesn't keep with the "modder's wet dream" that Civ4 is supposed to be. I think some of you guys just haven't figured out what the process is it yet. (AFAIK, the SDK is supposed to be for more advanced functionality--not things like adding stuff.)

...But cudos to Firaxis for letting you waste time trying to figure this thing out that could better be spent doing other more constructive things (like actual modding, for instance).

Not being able to add new units and buildings doesn't keep with the "modder's wet dream" that Civ4 is supposed to be. I think some of you guys just haven't figured out what the process is it yet. (AFAIK, the SDK is supposed to be for more advanced functionality--not things like adding stuff.)

...But cudos to Firaxis for letting you waste time trying to figure this thing out that could better be spent doing other more constructive things (like actual modding, for instance).

Firaxis never released a tool to make civ III units, animations, or any other graphics... never.

Yet there are thousands of units and graphics. I think a unit maker is closer than people think... ;)

Firaxis never released a tool to make civ III units, animations, or any other graphics... never.


This is because they have never developed one themselves. They use off the shelf tools for this.

Off the shelf tools for making an 8-directional FLC? Then why did Moeniir invent one? :hmm: