With Civ4 out now, you will see slowly but surely, less and less people come into this forum. I guarantee it. The fact is that we still do not know if unit making will even be possible with Civ4. This means that Civ4 currently is not moddable, no matter what anyone says. Without new units, you cannot have a mod.

Dom Pedro II is gone, Civarmy is gone, Aaglo is gone, Kinboat is gone, Utahjazz just released his last unit. For creators only Bjorn, Wyrmshadow, Orthanc, Hikoro Torayama and myself are still around. And out of all of them, I'm the only one who consisitantly will be making human units.

So this is it, like it or not, Civ3 is now dying.

Mmh... I not buy Civ4. I'm on Linux since few month and, as a lot of people, i have NO intention to return on Windows for a game.
I have always my old Win98se, that's all.

And for other reasons :

- Ugly 3D. Need for a LOT of power. Under a os that need a LOT a power...
- Littles map. Explanations are suspect, and it seem Sid Meyers don"t have, in fact, an IA that can handle great maps with a lot of tiles...


Civ3 is perhaps dying. But for me Civ4 never born.

Yes why doesn't anyone else say it? 3-D graphics for strategy games in general obsolutely stink when compared to 2nd games. They are blocky, polygonian messes.

Thats tooo bad:(
and the fact that im not sure if i would buy civ4
cause im just using pentium2 with low tech hardware
and i guess civ4 requires a lot:crazyeye:

Let's not paint doom and gloom here... aren't we all here 'cause we share a common hobby? It's all for enjoyment and fun, right? As long as there are people enjoying modding for Civ 3 (and I think there always will be), things are well.

I have no doubt that this community will still be here. But it will be practically a ghost board. New posts will occur every few days at the most. And new materal....:lol: maybe once a month if we are lucky.

I want desparately to go to Civ4, but I will not until I know that I will be able to make units for it.

I think you're being a bit pessimistic, SoG... Civ3 won't end for as long as people play it. People still play Civ2. Civ4 is a different game. Some of us don't even have computers powerful enough to run it.

There's more to playing Civ3, even to modding it, than making new units. There are so many units, LHs, and the rest available on this site that anyone can start using them if they want. We've pretty much reached a saturation point where there's nothing left to make, really. If I were a unit maker I'd be pleased to have a new game to get started on (assuming they work out how to do it). In the meantime, there's lots of stuff here to get to grips with. And don't forget that Anno Domini is about to come out, bursting with new units and LHs (and I don't think that R8XFT has any plans to jump ship quite yet). After that, LOTM will finally be available before enormously long. I'm confident that whilst the supply of new units and things may dwindle, there will be plenty of scenarios and mods for a while yet. My own "Desert..." one will be out soon and after that I'm planning quite an overhaul of the "Rood...". You'll have noticed that there are several "preview" threads in this very forum that have appeared in the last few days - some from new posters - indicating that the fat lady is far from singing yet. She's still in the dressing room, filling up on pies.

Well, I've already noticed a drastic change in the forums over the last couple of days. I've particularly noticed the less than enthusiastic response from the post of, as SOG mentioned, utah's last unit. I must say I'm not in the least surprised. Despite the discussion that went on a few months ago, where many speculated that Civ3 would live on for some time, I've been expecting this. As for myself, I am going to stick to Civ3. I've never been a fan of the rather cartoonish 3D graphics that Civ4 employs, and it seems to lack the mod-ability of Civ3, as well.

That being said, even with diehards like myself that will not change to Civ4, and even with the remaining unit creators dedicated to Civ3, I wonder how long it will be kept alive. What has kept me addicted (in a most unhealthy way) to Civ3 is its mod-ability and the vast amount of units available to mod with. I've created more detailed standard games, fantasy games, futuristic games, what-if scenario games (all for myself--none released), but with such a limited supply of new units to keep the game fresh, I wonder how long it will be before even I lose interest and move on to greener pastuers. I fear SOG may be right, Civ3 may very well in be in her final throes of death.

:salute: Farewell, Civ3 :salute:

That makes me happy. I am just alittle worried that is all. I will probably be getting Civ4 eventually(once I get a new video card...:eek: ), but even if I do I will be on both ships for awile, until someone figures out how to add units to civ4. Weasal Ops also convinced me to try to help solve that problem as well.

@SoG:
First off Civ3 is not dead. This sort of post is pure foolishness.
Moo3 came and failed, Moo2 still out sells it.
Civ4 is out, there is alot of excitement over the "new" thing. Alot of the regular posters are off looking at Civ4 and exploring the new 'toy', even if they have no intention of buying it. I'm a fan of and advocate for Civ3, but I bought Civ4 off a co-worker that hated it and wanted to go back to Civ3.
I played Civ2 for a very long time after Civ3 came out. I had both games, I just prefered Civ2. Later with enough patches and addons and community art I moved to Civ3. I suspect Civ4 will be the same. It has some essential features (core logic moddability, etc). But it has some bone head stupid design decisions. Attack/Defence/Hp gone and replaced with just Strength. Artty being completely broken and useless, and so on and on.. It got more wrong then right. Especially the fact that almost all of units makers current tool are not going to useable. And the new tool, the ONLY tool actually mentioned by the design team, is 3d Studio Max.. a program costing several thousand $.
Then there are the base graphics. The land, cities and water look better. The units are so large they look idiotic. I wish to they had paid attention to the scale of units in games like AOE. And if you look at them, you can tell they are the standard low-poly blocky crud so typically used in the 3d games.
The leaderheads look like 2yr olds, with their deformed over-large heads... The interface needs work too. There are better looking ones for Civ3.

Here is an interesting fact. The days since Civ4 came out have been amongst the highest download days for my creations yet. Over 1000 downloads per day instead of the normal 100-200.
http://civ3files.com/cgi-bin/Civ3Files.cgi?Page=ShowContributor&Contributor=100032
The total DL's jumped from just over 20,000 to well over 22,000. And I haven't released anything new in several days, so it is just people are still into Civ3. Even if they are curious about Civ4.
Don't worry about what game you will be playing in a year or two. Enjoy the game you are playing now.

@Plotinus: the fat lady & the pie line is pure poetry.

Mmmmhhh... I must admit I tought the same thing as SOG not so long ago. I only discovered this site by coincidence one month ago while searching more informations concerning the release of Civ4. So, I am pretty much what we can call a n00b! ;) But at the same time, I realised all the possibilities of modding Civ3, possibilities far beyond what I had imagined! All those new units, graphics and mods, all the new possibilities... I cannot thank and congradulate enough all the creators who have participated to this forum!

Lately, I have glanced at Civ4 creation forums and here is the general impression that I got: Even though Civ4 will be moddable, and WILL be modded, it is never going to be as accessible, feasible and easy as Civ3 is. I personally consider myself as a computer incompetent, but even with the little knowledge and programs that I posess, I am able to mod Civ3 and bring my humble contribution with some creations.

If one day modding Civ4 graphically become accessible without the use of expensive programs, people may quit Civ3 modding definitively for Civ4 modding. But from what I have seen, it's not the case right now. As for myself, I intend to buy C3C (only have PTW!) in order to play all the wonderful mod availables and some to come (Anno domini, Final Fantasy, Star Trek...), and continue to buid my own scenarios. Then, maybe, I will consider playing Civ4... For now on, Civ3 rules! :p

although I wish people would stop bringing up civ 4 and the end of civ 3 here
are you sure Aaglo, kinboat, and uthajazz are all gone?

I don't plan to "jump ship" just yet for a few reasons: 1) I don't plan on getting Civ4 too soon because when I start buying new games, I almost always end up going on an expensive buying spree that burns a hole in my wallet :p ; 2) There's still too little we know about Civ4's modding capabilites; 3) I have two mods planned for Civ3 and will not abandon months of work; and 4) It's likely that I won't be able to make ANY new city graphics for Civ4, city-graphics being all-important to me. :)

Well Hootee Hoo

Does this mean that I just spent all day downloading a 2 Gig mod for a ww2 game to get at the models for nothing? Well I guess I should just quit now as everyone else is giving up the ghost. No use being king of the mountain when you're the only one on the mountain.

a 2gb WW2 mod! Woah!
BF?

Civ IV is faulty... just as Civ III was. Patches need to come and it will be some time before full-blown mods come out for Civ IV. In the meantime, I am willing to bet Civ III *modded* will be better than anything Civ IV has to offer for at least a year (perhaps longer).

In the meantime, I will continue working with Civ III.

What a useful thread. Is it what ? The fourth ? :rolleyes:

When CivIII is dead, it will be obvious to all, and nobody will need make a thread about it. For now, it's alive.

If I keep seeing this kind of thread, I don't think I'm very motivated anymore to finish the Star Trek mod... :( It really start to sound like one of those 'The End is Near' kind of cults.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/End.gif
Even IF the end id near, why should that stop you from enjoying what is out there...? :)

You know, if people DID stop making units for Civ 3... It would make it easier for someone to make a new library XP

But seriously. Civ 3 is NOT dead. Every day since it's release, I have been looking at the total number of people in the CIV General discussion, and the CIII Creation and Customisation. And what have I seen? The Creation and Customisation has remained around the 70-90 people mark. The CIV General Discussion has dropped- 700+, 400+, 200+, less than 200!!!

Forunately, I don't have the computer to run Civ4! Until I upgrade my computer I won't play civ4! I'm so happy :)!

But the replacement of attack and defense with just Strangth is STUPID!!!!

I've not seen the system in action (yet), but I think it sounds good, actually. I never liked CivIII's segregation of units into offensive and defensive ones.

(Why I went with it in the Maya scen, you ask? Craven adherence to tradition and what players expect, I'm afraid, along with the fact it's not trivial to make the AI play competently if you differ from the format it expects.)

Dom Pedro II is gone, Civarmy is gone, Aaglo is gone, Kinboat is gone, Utahjazz just released his last unit. For creators only Bjorn, Wyrmshadow, Orthanc, Hikoro Torayama and myself are still around. And out of all of them, I'm the only one who consisitantly will be making human units.

So this is it, like it or not, Civ3 is now dying.

err....forgetting someone aren't we :mischief: ?

BTW, I think utahjazz7 promised egroen a unit or two.

err....forgetting someone aren't we :mischief: ?

I think too :mischief:

When CivIII is dead, it will be obvious to all, and nobody will need make a thread about it. For now, it's alive.

Agreed. As a matter of fact, The release of Civ4 may be one of the best thing that could have happened to Civ3 Creation&Customisation Forum. People like me who have drop the game years ago will discovered all the possibilities of modding it for the first time. Like me thet will be dazzle and astonished by the whole new world that is opening to them. Like me, they will say: I have do my part! Like me, they will try to explore every parcels of this new world and playing Civ4 will be completely vanished from treir intentions.
The truth is it will give us a whole new arrival of fresh brains! mmmhh... brains... brains...

Rejoice Civ3 Creation&Customisation Community!! the Renaissance have begun!! hé! hé!
:beer:

Civ3 is dead? Strangely, I gave my modded version of Civ III to 4 people today (the game was in several magazines recently and a lot of people bought it). I've still hundreds of units on disk that I can put in the game. Anno Domini will be released soon. SOE will be released soon.

If Civ 3 is dead, it is still dancing.

http://www.physiologus.de/weltu.gif

here here! :beer:

If Civ 4 requires 3D Studio Max to make new units there is a good chance alot of unit makers will continue to make units for Civ 3 the cost of 3D
StudioMax is very prohibitive if you arnt making models professionally.

Well, I'm gonna stick with civ3 for a while, and even though I have no modding skills, me and Bluemofia are starting to work together to make stuff, so have hope! There's still people making stuff out there!

I'll still be sticking with Civ3 until probably next spring. By then I should have a new computer powerful enough to play it and modding should be figured out by then and hopefully unit making will be less expensive.

Unfortunately I haven't a whole lot of free time anymore to work on the Star Wars Mod and I've also lossed some interest in doing it along with some of the other people working on it as well. Hopefully we can still eventually make a Star Wars Mod and not have all of that work go to waste.

BTW, do we have to use 3dsmax to make units for Civ4? I mean, is it possible we could use or make another program that exports to the 3dsmax format? Because if we have to shell out a ton of cash to make units, there won't be many people making units (including me) and that would suck. :(

CIV 3 IS NOT DEAD AS LONG AS THERE ARE STILL MODDERS AROUND! Geez, I'm so tired of these threads. It really gets old after the 4th or 5th one, ;). Sure, it won't be as busy as it once was, but look at the civ2 forums. There are new mods still being made, even after 9 years! Besides, are there any civ 4 mods yet? From what I've seen, civ 4 will be Hell to mod if you don't have the cash for high-end 3d programs. There's still Star Wars: A New Mod, Anno Domini, LotM and a bunch of halfway done scenarios to get through, then this forum might quiet down.

Ya know, I bet if someone went digging in the civ2 threads, you would find one labeled "The end of Civ2 is now here.";)

the fact that people are commenting here on the civ 3 thread proves its not dead, now lets stop wasting the time, and mod, and create! ^o^///

Oy...... I think I'm gonna stick with civ3 for a long time to come.... I was looking at the cIV Creation adn Customization forum, and from what I can tell, modding is so freakingly complicated, involving programming skills and multiple layers of programs..... Whatever happened to "The simpliest way is the best"?

Why are you so eager to decalre civ3 dead SoG?

I have high hopes that civ 3 will be around for at least the next 6 months.
But it is true that Civ 3 is in its final days, and has been for the past 5 months, truth be told i joined Civ Fanatics Center, with hopes of leaarning more about Civ 4 back in may. It renewed my interest in Civ 3 and now has me clinging to it(and the OT)

Dom Pedro II is gone, Civarmy is gone, Aaglo is gone, Kinboat is gone, Utahjazz just released his last unit. For creators only Bjorn, Wyrmshadow, Orthanc, Hikoro Torayama and myself are still around.


to those who are gone- i salute you :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:
and to those of you who will still be around-:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: thanks for keeping civ3 alive.

Tnx guys for staying. As for those other dudes... BRING THEM BACK! Use force if needed... Civ3 will live forever on my computer! Viva Civ3! Viva mods!

Civ3 dying? I've been visiting this forum...well not everyday but regularly, and I've noticed the number of visitors to the civ3 and civ2 forums have gone UP!

My message is: KEEP CIVILIZATION III ALIVE!!! (at least till I get civ4). I'm a new-comer to modding civ3 (even though I've been playing for 3 years) and I want somewhere to publish my maps.

Well if creating for Civ4 proves not to be feasable...than I'm sure Civarmy and DPII will come kicking and screaming back here...:)

No defense or offense in Civ4? Where is the strategy in that? :confused:

clicky
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=116532
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=94589
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=112401
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=89296
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=127395
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=127962
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=119970
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=125666
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=128101
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=126200
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108383
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=132460
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=89167
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=99738
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=122121
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=113423
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=133090
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=101243
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=131337
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=115557


and one more thing: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=126921 (notice the date)

Well, I probably mentioned this a hundred times already, but I'm definetely moving to CivIV, at least not anytime soon. I have the same problem with it I had with other great Strategy games, which were IMO ruined after they were converted to 3D, such as SinCity and Warcraft. The games themselves may have gotten new characteristics which made them more realistic, or more fun, but at the end, the conjunction of some bad features with heavy and ugly graphics didn't work for me. I still eventually play SC4 and WCIII, but not nearly as much as I play the older versions of both.
Regarding just to graphics, I always felt there was a special magic about 2D graphics, which isn't present in 3D, but might still be in games like CivIII, which makes use of 3D generated graphics in a 2D (but 3D looking) environment.

Now, even though I'd like to play CIV to try some of its new features (the good ones to see if they are as good as they sound, as well as the bad ones, to see if they are as bad as they seem to be), I find some of them might just spoil the fun for me. The fact that artillery works in an awful way is an example of that.

So, in the meanwhile, I'll just resort to playing some CIII games and mods, specially some similar to the Native American one: mostly changing the graphics to suit some specific area and era, as well as the tech tree, units, etc. There was some talk about doing an Asian one, which sounded quite interesting at the time. So, if anyone's up to the challenge.... ;)

Well Civ4 is in its height right now because its new and people are just
dead serious anticipating it right now because they want to see whats new in its features:) but the thing is if it can't be mod or costumize new units and others then it will become unpopular after you play it with a couple of months or so...after maybe it release another patch that it can costumize new units or added features that will gain back the craving 4 it

same thing happen to me when i got both civ2 and civ3 but i do most prefer civ2 because its so much addictive to play:D but until i stumble to this site and see that i can add units then i turn to more on civ3...new kind of units like playing and learning history all at the same time:goodjob:

I just wanna throw my 2 cents in here...

The idea that a game as big as Civ3 can die is ridiculous...is everyone gonna tell me that when the Game Cube was released, everyone stopped playing with the N64 or even the old nintendo??...Try to pretend that NOONE plays Mario Brothers anymore, I dare you

There are things about Civ3 that cant be redone in Civ4, like those awful units...The fact that Civ4 cant be heavily modded yet, to me(IMO) means that creaters like Civ Army, and DPII will either be back to Civ3, or end up shelling out big bucks for progs...

IMO the community of Civ3 will remain, and though many people will surely try Civ4, IMO they will be back once the depth of modability has been explored...
at the same time, Im sure we will lose some people, but gain others...

I personally have no intention to leave, as I have spent many hours on my quest to learn unit creation, and will not have that go for naught...and I like making buildings...even if noone uses them

From what I've seen of message chatter in the Civ IV forums, it looks like my prediction of Civ IV = MoO III is coming true (and I have $100 that says that it will be the case).

As for me, even though I have a computer that can Run games like No One Lives Forever II, Halo PC and Unreal Tournament 2k4 flawlessly in high-detail mode, I'm not buying Civ IV until:

1) The modability issues are addressed. There is no way in hell I'm buying 3D studio Max just to make some crappy low-poly figures for Civ IV, not to mention that me and programming languages get along about as well as oil and water.

2) The game proves not to be MoO III. From what I've seen of the "strength" and broken artillery crap, it looks like its going that way.

3) providing conditions 1 and 2 are met, I'm not buying the game until Civ IV complete comes out (which will be around 2009, judging by current expansion release trends), so I don't spend $120 when I could just buy the whole enchilada for $60.

Therefore, Civ III will be around (at least in my case) for another four years or so. I'm also not abandoning Civ III until the FF mod is done, and I can do my MoO: Stranded mod done as well (and I haven't even started on that mod aside from some leaderheads).

If worse comes to worst, I'm converting my mods to Steph's Stratgical Simulation, and going with that.

Exactly!when i bought civ4 got some problem installing it until it budge in..
Then i played it..i was in awe by the game but i'm also in awe of how much time will the unit creators gonna spend creating new units if its possible in due time:D same thing i played 4 the first time civ3 very different from civ2
but the thing is i played over and over(some times defeated sometimes winning)it got me bored with the same leaderheads and units until i buy PTW and C3C and started mass downloading of units etc.

I would like to add, that there are currently 47 people on the Civ3 C&C forum

and 23 on the Civ4 C&C

I'm not planning to jump ship and just make creations for Civ IV. I'll be in the Civ III community for a very long time. However, after Anno Domini is uploaded (most likely this Tuesday/Wednesday), my next project will probably to create a leaderhead for Civ IV, possibly someone like Boudicca (who remains my most downloaded Civ III creation). Civ IV ships in the UK on Friday (or so I'm led to believe), so I'll be expecting that this time next week, I'll be investigating how the new leaderheads work. This, however, will just be to expand and test my own abilities, so please don't think just because I'm creating something for Civ IV, that's it for Civ III.
It might be a while before we start seeing sufficient custom units/leaderheads etc to make the detailed scenarios and mods that are coming out today. People are used to playing fantasy mods or ancient scenarios and I believe that until Civ IV catches up with the development of graphics for such mods, it'll never oust Civ III.
On the other side of the coin, it's a wonderful opportunity to really go for it artistically. With virtually nothing new created, the world's your oyster. I have noticed that people are commenting less and less on Civ III creations, but I put this down to there being so much choice these days, there's mainly only specialised stuff that people need. If I create a new leaderhead for Civ IV, it's more chance of being wanted/needed than a new leaderhead for Civ III - I guess the likes of myself, Civ Army s 1994, jorde, Shirokobbure, Hikaro Takayama and others have saturated the market.
One question for you, Sword_of_Geddon : if you think it's the end of Civ III, why are you still creating Heart of Destiny? Possibly because you enjoy modding, it's a mod that people are looking forward to trying and there's still a market for it?

I'm not jumping ship quite yet. My computer isn't good enough for Civ 4, and there's no way in hell I'm giving up on civ 3!!!! (I have pages and pages and pages of stuff written down on paper at home!!!)

Besides, I know how pretty much everythnig in the editor work, how the Pedia and PediaIcons work... and I enjoy it! Civ 4 sounds like it will be fun to mod when people know how, but it won't feel the same as a Civ 3 mod.

Oh, and SoG, why did you post this here, and pretty much the same thing slating C4 C+C over there?

Glad you're not giving up the ghost yet R8XFT...

Im sure some of the creators are just like kids on christmas...some will playu with their new toy for a while...but then, some of them will go back to "their favorite" which wont be civ4 for all of them...let the big "Hurrah" go away, and people will be back...Sorta like one person I know(who remains nameless) who got Civ4 and is currently involved with it, but he will be back working on his Civ3 mod soon (Its been almost a week)

Well R8XFT, new leaderheads are NEVER not in demand, especially not yours. Haven't seen leaderheads from you in awile. I want to see another album from you...;)

R8XFT...I have LH requests, just didnt make them as they are not Historical, and I thought you only did "Real" people

Yeah, there are lots of leaderheads still needed...
Especially for the SW mod.... hint, hint, ;)

Dom Pedro II is gone, Civarmy is gone, Aaglo is gone, Kinboat is gone, Utahjazz just released his last unit.
Hmm. :hmm:
Strange - I didn't know I was gone. If I won't make an unit or two in a couple of weeks, I'm gone? FWIW, I've been working on a (guess what :p ) mod with mrtn quite a lot lately. Eventhough I find it quite flattering that you miss me making 5 units per week, I also find your lack of faith disturbing. And I am not irreplaceable (I've done the "finger-in-waterglass"-test).

Besides, keeping civ3-creation&customization community alive isn't just "making units" - it's only one part of it. I might be mistaken, but your claim propably is not very appreciated among the modders who do not make units.

cheers,
aaglo

Well R8XFT, new leaderheads are NEVER not in demand, especially not yours. Haven't seen leaderheads from you in awile. I want to see another album from you...;)
As you know (from being a beta tester on Anno Domini), I'm about to release 31 leaderheads. A few have been seen before and have been enhanced, the rest are brand new. I released Dido late August and three oriental leaderheads in September.
As you didn't answer the question from my previous post, I'll ask it again: If you feel that it's the end for Civ 3, why are you still creating Heart of Destiny? Possibly because you enjoy modding, it's a mod that people are looking forward to trying and there's still a market for it?

I think he is just being a contrarian. Trying to stir things up.
He posted a similar thread in the Civ4 forum, except there he said the opposite. (He was negative about Civ4)

Aaglo: Don't even joke about being replacable...:) Its not because you haven't posted units, its that you don't post very much unless you are posting units..:p

R8XFT: I like my mod to much, and have put to much work to just give up because Civ4 is out...:) It will be awile, maybe even up to a year, before I more fully to Civ4, Civ3 just has so much, and Civ4 so little, I'm sure you understand friend.

Bjorn: I had bad feelings about both games, that Civ3 was dying because of Civ4 and that Civ4 was going to suck...that basically sums up why I posted the two threads..

Oh well, it had a good run. I do still believe that there will be at least a few Civ 3 mod makers, just like there are for Civ 2. Great games never die, they just become overshadowed.

Great games never die, they just become overshadowed.Hehe, reminds me of: "Great Clowns never die. They just go Grimaldi."

Anyway, I haven't been around the scene long enough to know what happens when a new version comes out. I take the view that Civ3 will always be around and its modding culture will continue to thrive. Much the same as with Civ2. It's still great.

Plus there are people like myself (often old time civ addicts) who have only discovered the joys of modding civ3 recently. This should mean some new blood on the creation boards now and then, bringing new thinking and knowledge to the mouldy reworkings of the same periods of history. Just need the veteran modders to drop in now and then and keep us on the straight and narrow.

I too will get Civ4 some day. But I am in no hurry, especially not with the pressure of hype and bugged up new releases.

R8XFT: I like my mod to much, and have put to much work to just give up because Civ4 is out...:) It will be awile, maybe even up to a year, before I more fully to Civ4, Civ3 just has so much, and Civ4 so little, I'm sure you understand friend.
So therefore if you're still creating your mod, I'm still creating mine and plenty of other mods are being created, then the end of Civ III is NOT now here ;) .

Is it just me, or have people started to come back here? Right after cIV came out, this place was practically empty, but it seems to have kinda revived....

Thats cause as far as being a better game, Civ4 isnt MODable yet...The "New Toy" is kinda lost its luster...and from what I read, Modding is alot harder, unless you have this 1-2 thousand dollar program...but Im not positive on that as I dont read the Civ4 boards anymore...either way, I see the hardcore creaters (CivArmy, Steph, Kinboat) are all dedicated over there...so we need to step up the creators we have(myself included)...Maybe if enough of us get together and focus on one project at a time...we could finish them all..??..

So, for me...Im faithfully gonna Mod Civ3...and I hope some of you stay with me(Or vice versa in some of the older school creators...aaglo R8XFT and orthanc come to mind)

Civ 4 will have everything looking the same. I like how in Civ 3 some mods have a lot of difference. For instance, you might have Bryce units fighting Cut'n'paste units while a POV-ray unit fights an AoK conversion near a hand-drawn city, while a Firaxis leaderhead begs for mercy from your Poser leaderhead. It's just something awesome you won't be able to do in Civ 4

hear! hear!

that is one of the things I love about Civ3.

As for creation, i hope to practice with unit making and start making a few of them. Don't look at the migration to Civ4 as a loss (they'll be coming back anyway ;)) but look at it as a chance for newer creators to show their stuff.

Oh well, it had a good run. I do still believe that there will be at least a few Civ 3 mod makers, just like there are for Civ 2. Great games never die, they just become overshadowed.

Yeah, there are still active modding communities for the original DOOM for crying out loud (which is even more amazing considering the genre that game is; in 3D FPS full 3D graphix + more polygons + improved monster almost always=Better, but DooM has managed to last for over 10 years....)

I personally won't go to Civ IV until it proves itself. I've been burned one too many times to go rushing to buy a game as soon as it hits the shelf..... Yes I learned my lesson from Diablo II, Warcraft III, MoO III and Dungeon Siege.

I'm also going to continue modding Civ III until someone like Cyber Draek comes up with an EZ-Python script & XML editor (although from what I've seen thus far, XML is not a whole lot different than the scripting for AoK Random Map Scripts, a few of which I have made, but I'd still rather not bother with a whole bunch of text editing) as well as a GMAX plugin that would allow you to create units for Civ IV in GMAX (which is 100% free).

And even when all those conditions are met, I'll wait until all expansions are out to buy and start modding Civ IV (much like I did with Civ III, but I bought it right away, and didn't start serious modding until Conquests came out).

Therefore, it is entirely likely that I'll be making LH, buildings, wonders and units for years to come. I still have the FF mod to finish and a MoO: Stranded on Planet Bob (Okay, I haven't thought of the planet name yet, but I'll work on it) that I want to do as well....

Isn't it ironic that one of the most active current threads on this forum is one proclaming the end of Civ 3. ;)

I say it again, seconded by Quinzy:
Rejoice Civ3 Creation&Customisation Community!! the Renaissance have begun!!

:beer:

I see the hardcore creaters (CivArmy, Steph, Kinboat) are all dedicated over there...
Hey! I'm hardcore too! :mischief:
I see myself doing a lot more for Civ3 than Civ4 over the next year or two. Civ4 is going to take a long time and a lot of work before serious modding starts. I'm doing what I can to help with that, but until we get Civ4 all figured out, it's going to hard to do anything great. For example, I just scratched the possibility of making a Civ4 version of BfNY. After seeing what Civ4 is made of, I decided it would be easier just to make a new game.

I don't see myself doing much for Civ4 as well. Even if you can use GMax for it, I can't even figure out the basics of it. :p The most I would be doing is simple re-skinning where I can carry over my way of pixel-by-pixel. :)

You must have the most patience and greatest attention span of anyone I've met to be doing what you do Odegai, i swear..

Just keep in mind that civ3 will remain more interesting and playable then civ4 for a long time. There are a score or two of very good mods around, based on aspects from history, literature, fantasy and science fiction. Why bothering moving so soon? It will take a long time for civ4 to begin developing at this level.

BTW, aren't you also worried of the immence size that civ4 units (and therefore, mods) will need?

I also would like to note that aaglo and kinboat have made civ3 units of exceptional quality, some of them much better then the original civ animations. Someone should have proposed them working for civ4... not that I am surprised that this is not the case...

I also would like to note that aaglo and kinboat have made civ3 units of exceptional quality, some of them much better then the original civ animations. Someone should have proposed them working for civ4... not that I am surprised that this is not the case...

I second this....Firaxis brought Rhye and Sn00py in just for terrain(Civ3 Complete also includes unpatched versions of DyP and Balancer(among others))...youd think units would get more attantion (I think they wanted to "hold out" how to MOD most stuff...if they REALLY wanted 100% modability, they wouldnt make it so hard/it would come with Modding instructions)

Well, Civ3 is everything but death, that's obvious.

Personally I don't see a reason in buying Civ4. I just don't believe it's better than Civ3. When I was young there was no 3D, so why would anybody need that modern stuff now :rolleyes: ? Oh, I'm 18, but I just notice I'm getting old and conservative :lol:

BTW, there are so many posts here that say 'I won't buy Civ4, cause there are so many excellent mods for Civ3'. I wonder what they think at Firaxis when they read that. I mean, they certainly like the modding community as long as it makes their product more attractive, but the Civ3 community is so active that it might very well detain some people from buying their new product. Ironic, isn't it?

Yes it is. Muahahahaha. :evil:

Peoples who only see the 3D as new stuff in Civ4 are just blind. I don't say it's better, but it's not just a graphics upgrade.

(I think they wanted to "hold out" how to MOD most stuff...if they REALLY wanted 100% modability, they wouldnt make it so hard/it would come with Modding instructions)

I think they were too busy finishing the game to make an newbie-friendly manual for XML and Python :P

I think they were too busy finishing the game to make an newbie-friendly manual for XML and Python :P

I was more pointing out, that they closed many doors for the current creators...while making "New" modability more difficult...
IMO some things didnt need to change...although I dont know how much of it was nessicary due to their new graphics engine not supporting old units/LHs
But (again IMO) switching from a system that allowed use of many graphics progs, to a system that only allows ONE(so far) will just make it harder to MOD/bring less users into MOdding

BTW, aren't you also worried of the immence size that civ4 units (and therefore, mods) will need?
If you mean file size, units are just 400-700 kb.

It seems to me that, if the current experiments in CivIV C&C land are accurate, it will be pretty easy to re-skin CivIV units (even for dunces like me, equipped with nothing more than a standard paint program). And I think that this will give people an easy way of making new units, since you could reskin a spearman, an archer etc any way you like and create lots of variants (more variety than a colour conversion of a CivIII unit, at least). So I think CivIV does offer exciting possibilities for graphics creation in some fields at the very least, and no doubt people will work out how to create whole new units, LHs and the rest. Still, it will take a long time for things to get going there. CivIV is like a whole new continent currently being opened up by the bold explorers. For the rest of us, CivIII will be the place to mod for a long time yet. Just look at how long it took CivIII to become the modder's choice of game: browse through the units fora and see how the early fan units were, to be honest, rather bad cut and paste jobs, recolourings, or even hand-drawn 2D efforts. All fine for their time, of course, but hardly in the league of our Kinboat, Utahjazz et al efforts which, in my view at least, typically surpass the Firaxis units. I've no doubt that the CivIV fora will one day burst at the seams with creations of similar quality, but I have equally no doubt that it will take just as long for this to happen.

Well said, Plotinus. But there still has to be some of us there to blaze the trail, or else we will never get the point where Civ4 modding is as strong as Civ3 is now. I'm not saying we should all jump ship and leave Civ3 behind, but neither can we all just sit back and wait for someone else to figure it all out. That's my view, anyway.

Absolutely, WO. The point is simply: CivIV is the best place right now for some kinds of modding (ie, the trailblazing, "How the hell do we do such and such?" kind of thing you're up to right now), and CivIII remains the best place right now for the other kinds of modding (eg, the "Let's make such and such a scenario"). One day, no doubt, CivIV will be the place to do the latter kind as well, thanks to the efforts of you and those like you, and I look forward to that day. But it's a long way off yet - perhaps just as well, not only because of the amount of projects still in the pipeline for CivII, but also because I suspect that working out how to do all that stuff, and laying the groundwork for future libraries, and turning out the first experimental units etc, is a fun enterprise in its own right!

My main issue currently is that there is no plugin for inexspensive 3d programs (such as Shade 7) for creating Gamebryo models. This wouldn't be such an issue except for the fact that there is no way in Hell I could make the FF mod for Civ IV just by re-skinning models, therefore until someone develops a Shade or OpenFX plugin for exporting to Gamebryo, I'm most likely going to offer what support I can to Steph in finishing his Steph's Strategical Simulation, which not only has a lot of the features that Civ IV has, but also allows you to use standard Civ III graphics (a win/win situation, IMO), as well as not requiring a NASA grade super computer to run.....

XML and Python aren't that big of an issue for me, since Micro$oft FrontPage should be able to edit XML (after all, XML can be opened in M$IE, and FP can edit anything that IE opens), and since Poser 5 uses Python, I can just learn by opening up some of Poser's .py files and twiddling around with them.

Therefore, as I said previously, I'm waiting until I even consider buying Civ IV, because from the modding end at least, it's sounding more and more like MoO III. (which was very difficult to mod except for LH and certain race attributes that could be edited with Rad Video Tools and M$ Exce, respectively).

How are you supporting Steph? I thought he was doing it all on his own.

How are you supporting Steph? I thought he was doing it all on his own.

Well, for now, I'm mostly offering moral support....

I've been looking at reviews for Civ IV on amazon.com, and it looks like maybe this thread should be renamed to "the end of Civ IV is now here."

I've been looking at reviews for Civ IV on amazon.com, and it looks like maybe this thread should be renamed to "the end of Civ IV is now here."

So what you're saying is that my Civ IV = Masters of Orion III theory is not that far off the mark?! :lol: I guess my experiences with certain games over the past 3 years ("oh look it's in 3d so it must be teh aw3som3!!!!!!!!!11111111" and two months later it's "Aww man this game sux!") has given me some insight into predicting how a game will do. Particularyly MoO III, Dungeon Siege and Warcraft III (oh look! shiny new graphics, but the same #%$%#%&#% "swarm the enemey with as many cheap units as possible" strategy that's the weak point of all other Blizzard strategy games), all of which were extremely buggy and almost completely unmoddable when released, and subsequent expansions (if any) did little to address these issues, and unfortunately, such games are more and more becoming the norm rather than the exception in the PC gaming community.

Thankfully, for every MoO III there's a Galactic Civilizations (a 2d game that came out AFTER MoO III but the gameplay is 500% better and it out-sold MoO III with all of its flashy 3-d graphics by over 4-1), and I just hope that people will wake up and realize that 3d graphics do not necesarily a good game make.

I wouldn't pass judgment on Civ4 simply on reviews alone. I intend to get Civ4 very soon to see what it's all about. Of course, the things that have been discussed in the Civ4 Creation and Customization forum does have me a bit concerned regarding modability issues...

I must agree! 3d grafics do not neccessariely make a good game. This is especially the case for strategy games. EG I always thought Empire Earth was a pain to look at with all this polygoneous units that looked so unnatural. Earth 2150 solved the problem by just having no organic units.... This would never work for a Civ...
The level of detail in 2d is soo much higher compared to 3d (Yes you can see a unit from every angle if it's 3d but if it looks ugly it will look ugly from every point of view) For turnbased strategy games I think the 2d units were always morea kind of symbol for "a couple of units of this type" or a couple of units of that type. So they were always just representative. In 3dshooters like Quake or what ever you always show "exactly" what there should be and there's no need to symbolice.
So => 3d is good for shooter
but not rally necs for strategy games.

To be honest I have sometimes problems to see use in 3d games if you use a 2d display...:confused: (yes you can zoom an rotate and so on with 3d but is there any real use during a normal game)

In the end I also ordered Civ 4 in the hope for good and usefull changes in the 3d sector but all the critics say the opposite...

Well I think Civ3 is going to be alive for awhile yet. Sure it will take a hit, but it will still live on. I admit I have spent the past 5 days on Civ4 (just playing), with practically nothing done in Civ3, but it is getting old already. Too buggy at the moment, IMHO. Great gameplay, and once the SDK comes out the level of modding we should have available will be awesome, but to be honest I would expect it to be about a year before the modding community swings more heavily to civ4. That is how it will be for me anyway. it needs a few patches, some tutorials, the SDK, and perhaps the first expansion before I start focusing more on 4. I know that means I will never get noticed by the develepors and offered a job by them like previous trailblazers, but that's fine by me - this is a hobby not a resume'.

Same here Ames. You will be rewarded for staying here with Hawaiian and monster units from yours truly. :)

Here is some proof that Civ3 is alive and well...Anno Domini has just been released!!!

Looking forward to units from you too, SOG!!

I have alot of units planed. And I get better with each release too!

I have alot of units planed. And I get better with each release too!
In deed you do. It is sorta fun to down load each version and watch your skills take off.

Thankyou Bjorn. I appreciate that.

I have the following planed for my next two units btw:

1. Aztec "Auxilla"

and

2. Nahuatal Mercanary I promised Redalert

I have no doubt that this community will still be here. But it will be practically a ghost board. New posts will occur every few days at the most. And new materal....:lol: maybe once a month if we are lucky.

I want desparately to go to Civ4, but I will not until I know that I will be able to make units for it.

I've been watching the Civ4 community from a distance for some time now, and now that some people I know have bought it, from up close too. There's a lot of dissatisfaction. It appears that Civ4 requires such high-end hardware that it's out of range for a lot of people. And modding? Forget it. I for one, and everyone I know, don't want to learn all the language skills necessary to mod in Civ4. In fact, I've only heard it's possible, I haven't seen any actual evidence of Civ4 mods...

Civ3 is a good, turn-based game, and it's accessible to modding. I think there will be a come-back, when modders out there realize Civ4 is just too much work. Civ3 is a good balance, it's easy to learn, can use a wide variety of programs, and has decent graphics.

Cheer up! It's not the end of the world!:cool:

I am as ambitious as ever in creating my new mod/scenario for Civ3 conquests:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=136981

For now I couldn't care less about Civ4, I'm not done modding Civ3.

It took forever to get decent mods for Civ III, it dosen't look like it will take forever for Civ IV, but I will play civ III until they do (and I get enough $$ to upgrade computer.) Also Civ IV, from reviews dosen't = Moo III, It is just not tested enough, but that will come, with time.

it dosen't look like it will take forever for Civ IV
oh, yes it will. :crazyeye:

The premise goes as followed; the more open sourced the game is, the greater is the difficulty for the average person to mod. Yet, in theory, the greater the expertise required to mod for said game, the higher the quality of said mod, just fewer mods to choose from.

The premise goes as followed; the more open sourced the game is, the greater is the difficulty for the average person to mod. Yet, in theory, the greater the expertise required to mod for said game, the higher the quality of said mod, just fewer mods to choose from.
The problem with your theory is two fold.
The first is ignorance the second is arrogance.

Ignorance: Open source and moddable are not the same. Moddable and difficult are not related. It could have been completely open and easily approachable. Especially the units, which will require special high-end software (Gamebryo requires 3d studio max or Maya). Similarly shipping it without even a rudimentary editor is nothing but false advertising. The game says on the box it is the most modifiable version yet... strange, Conquests had the ability to add units, and replace every graphic in the game right out of the box. What it should have said was that SOME of the rules are modifiable with expert knowledge of XML & Python, but the graphics are not. Yes, some small amount of reskinning of pre-existing meshes can be done by expanding the art using the later bug fix info for ATI video cards, but this is not modabilty, and has nothing to do with their on the box claims

Arrogance: Fewer mods does not equal better mods. This is elitist crap. Fewer mods is just fewer mods. Excluding many of the bright minds who were active contributors to some of the finest add-ons in Civ3 just because they either don't know XML & Python or because they don't have the time or money to spend 1000's on software in no way leads to better mods. There is no correlation between being rich and making good units. Nor is there any correlation between the ability to program and the ability to design a good mod.

I have no doubt the Civ4 community will eventually have better mods and playability than Civ3. It just won't be until at least a year before that happens. And no one will be able to rival my Civ3 mods! :P

I agree with Bjornlo.

Sure, I've already tweaked some stuff in the XML files, and have already painted a couple of skins. However, what CivIV limits any of us to do at this point, is not very impressive in regards to creativity, at least concerning units.

Only when the SDK comes out, will we know the full scope of moddibility of CivIV.

V are you still making units for Civ3? I see you've started to play Civ4. Just curious.

SOG, at the moment, I am in the process of improving my previously released units. I am implementing a new way of rendering my units to get the best results possible. However, this a much longer process. I am rendering in different layers. Doing this, should eliminate more than 90% of the problem pixels that would surround my units, specifically, my warships. These would be the blinking pixels you may or may not have noticed surrounding my ships. These problem pixels, don't seem to show up as drastically on my few land and air units. I believe the pixels contrast more with the blue of the ocean tiles than the colors of the land tiles. Anyway, I want to release my improved units in blocks of 2-4 units at a time. Currently, I am finishing up the Kirov Battlecruiser. The first set of improved ship units will be the WWII Iowa Battleship, the Modern Iowa Battleship, the Kirov Battlecruiser, and probably the Sverdlov Light Cruiser. Hopefully, I will get them out next week some time. I have a WIP as well, the Russian Kresta I/II missile cruiser. I may hop on that, to take a break from rerendering my units, at least for a little while.

I will stick with Civ3 for quite a while yet. I just wanted to check out Civ4's mod features...which are almost non-existent in regards to the units. (as Bjornlo put it, changing unit stats is not modding)
Also, as I said before, I'm just not impressed with the 3D graphics. I mean, sure you can zoom in and rotate the camera around the units, but what's the big deal with being able to zoom in on blocky, somewhat ugly units. The modern destroyer and battleship appall me the most. However, some of the units aren't too bad looking. Of course, some new skinning will help, but only to a degree.

I wonder if Firaxis rushed the release of Civ4. Maybe they should have waited a few months to perfect everything and get rid of all the bugs, plus put in a decent editor. In fact, I really think that is what they should have done.

I agree. I've... I've lost all hope of ever getting my mod done...

But, you know what woulpd spark a wave of hope? A Kinboat unit.

But the thing to remember is as long as they sell civ three at wall mart for 10 bucks there will be players and modders. And with Civ 3 complete coming out for Mac soon.. well, thats good as well.

Its the creators, man, all of the great ones.. we just haven't seen in ages.. DPII, bebro, ripptide, CamJH....

*sigh*

whine whine whine :^p

But, you know what woulpd spark a wave of hope? A Kinboat unit.
Would a sphere-based Weasel unit suffice? :mischief:

btw something just popped into my head so I had to post it
"Civ3 is dead." -SoG
"SoG is dead." -Civ3

:confused:

It's an old Nietzche(sp?) joke. Forget it.

The problem with your theory is two fold.
The first is ignorance the second is arrogance.

Ignorance: Open source and moddable are not the same. Moddable and difficult are not related. It could have been completely open and easily approachable. Especially the units, which will require special high-end software (Gamebryo requires 3d studio max or Maya). Similarly shipping it without even a rudimentary editor is nothing but false advertising. The game says on the box it is the most modifiable version yet... strange, Conquests had the ability to add units, and replace every graphic in the game right out of the box. What it should have said was that SOME of the rules are modifiable with expert knowledge of XML & Python, but the graphics are not. Yes, some small amount of reskinning of pre-existing meshes can be done by expanding the art using the later bug fix info for ATI video cards, but this is not modabilty, and has nothing to do with their on the box claims

Arrogance: Fewer mods does not equal better mods. This is elitist crap. Fewer mods is just fewer mods. Excluding many of the bright minds who were active contributors to some of the finest add-ons in Civ3 just because they either don't know XML & Python or because they don't have the time or money to spend 1000's on software in no way leads to better mods. There is no correlation between being rich and making good units. Nor is there any correlation between the ability to program and the ability to design a good mod.

Wow... It seems that cynicism doesn't correlate very well textually. What I should have elaborated on was that is what some game developers have said about some of their games in their forum. My post above was how I would personally say is the "gist" of what they claim their game can do.

Forgive my ignorance on the subject; but as I have just said it was what I was lead to believe based upon what several different game developers have claimed.

P.S. Did I personally offend you somehow to incur such a vehement response, or is it some underlying disgust and disappointment with Firaxis claim to Civ4? Just purely curious I mean no disrespect by it. Just value a person who obviously has vastly superior knowledge on the subject. ;)

P.S. Did I personally offend you somehow to incur such a vehement response, or is it some underlying disgust and disappointment with Firaxis claim to Civ4? Just purely curious I mean no disrespect by it. Just value a person who obviously has vastly superior knowledge on the subject. ;)
No you did not personally offend me. I do not think my response was that vehement. I stand by my reply as blunt but accurate. It was a clear and accurate rebuttal to your statements. If you had intended it as cynicism or were not stating your views, but paraphrasing someone else's, it might have been useful to indicate that. For example: "It seems that the developer position must be ...." If you present views as your own, and opinions as fact it is not unreasonable to assume that it is your own position that you are presenting.

The game says on the box it is the most modifiable version yet... strange, Conquests had the ability to add units, and replace every graphic in the game right out of the box.
I'm not sure this is entirely true. While when Conquests was released it was possable to mod units, none of this was "out of the box" - the abilty to edit unit graphics was done soley by the modding community, and Firaxis have released NO tools for modding units. Civ 4 is exactly the same, except we haven't quite figured out how to mod units yet.

Although I am rather confused as to why they had to hide away all the art files like they did. Seems odd - and I would have to agree that the graphics of Civ 4 were much less moddable than in Civ 3, though I feel we have a much greater scope for rules changes.

As for Civ 3 modding being easy in comparison to Civ 4 modding - from what I've seen it looks the other way around. I could never get the hang of the editor for Civ 3 - it was just far to cumbersome and time consuming, and you still had to know what you were doing with those text files.

Civ 4 just has text files, each has a purpose, and most are quite easy to understand. I seems to me to be much clearer (although, I admit, I don't have the game yet, so can't really judge).

I agree with TGA. Once we get the documentation for XML and Python, rule editing will be relatively simple. People are also working on utilities to make XML editing even easier.

No you did not personally offend me. I do not think my response was that vehement. I stand by my reply as blunt but accurate. It was a clear and accurate rebuttal to your statements. If you had intended it as cynicism or were not stating your views, but paraphrasing someone else's, it might have been useful to indicate that. For example: "It seems that the developer position must be ...." If you present views as your own, and opinions as fact it is not unreasonable to assume that it is your own position that you are presenting.

The problem with your analysis of my "statement" is that I gave no indication that this was my personal view or that I was stating them as fact. What I wrote is to generalised and to be percieved as a subjective opinion. At best it was an uniformed statement taking out of context. Had I used "I believe this to be..."' or "This is my personal understanding of the subject" would lead on to believe that I hold such facts in regards. Your conterstatement about "Ignorace" I can live with, but where you do you "Arrogance" from? I really don't see a exact statement saying "This is the way it is and anyone that refutes me is WRONG!!!". Please show me I do wish to know where it is?

I wonder if Firaxis rushed the release of Civ4. Maybe they should have waited a few months to perfect everything and get rid of all the bugs, plus put in a decent editor. In fact, I really think that is what they should have done.
There's this little thing called economics that get in the way...
Besides, they had to get it out before Christmas.

SoG, stop being such a doom monger. Civ 3 is not dead, it just smells funny. :p

Bah! Youany bearing to the subject. My ignorance got the best of me. :p

But you are most definitely right when you state it was extremely poor judgement on the part of Firaxis to market the game as "the most moddable game on the planet" yet not give the tools to the modder, ie. yourself, to allow them to mod the game. Wasn't that a significant part of the selling point ofr Civ4? At least I thought it was...

The people who got it only liked the graphics. Since Civ4 had a lot less content than Civ3, and the Graphics will only slow things down. They begin to realize how much it sucks. They will restart playing Civ3! :D

I never liked the graphics on Civ4, anyway.

The problem with your analysis of my "statement" is that I gave no indication that this was my personal view or that I was stating them as fact. What I wrote is to generalised and to be percieved as a subjective opinion. At best it was an uniformed statement taking out of context. Had I used "I believe this to be..."' or "This is my personal understanding of the subject" would lead on to believe that I hold such facts in regards. Your conterstatement about "Ignorace" I can live with, but where you do you "Arrogance" from? I really don't see a exact statement saying "This is the way it is and anyone that refutes me is WRONG!!!". Please show me I do wish to know where it is?
What utter nonsense. The more you prevaricate the less inclined I am to bother with a reply. Or are you still quoting mysterious people and don't own your own comments?

You open your mouth (or write things) and words come out. It is reasonable to assume those are your words, unless you say otherwise. If you wrote to the president and said 'die you warmonger so&so', the secret service would come to your house kick in your door and maybe your teeth.... and you'd be stuck in custody trying to explain how you were quoting, but not attributing someone else.

Arrogance is the exact nature of the foolish drivel you were spouting/quoting. That less is more and that the "less" you will be stuck with will be better because all the chaff will be cast aside. This form of elitism is a prime example of arrogance.

I'm doing you the favor in this reply and assuming you're being sincere in your claims, despite the obvious credibility questions some of your claims raise.

Short version: Reasonable people assume that words you say are your own. If you are quoting someone, say so. So while your comments reflected ignorance and arrogance, I will grant you that neither epitaph seems to reflect your character (based on your other posts). If you don't understand something I've said ask me in a PM and we can discuss it. To be fair, your comments, were not new to me. I might have been harsher then I would otherwise have been had I not heard the similar nonsense for days on end.

The people who got it only liked the graphics. Since Civ4 had a lot less content than Civ3, and the Graphics will only slow things down. They begin to realize how much it sucks. They will restart playing Civ3! :D

I never liked the graphics on Civ4, anyway.
It is a good game. I own it and don't hate it. But I prefer Civ3.

I'm not sure this is entirely true. While when Conquests was released it was possable to mod units, none of this was "out of the box" - the abilty to edit unit graphics was done soley by the modding community, and Firaxis have released NO tools for modding units. Civ 4 is exactly the same, except we haven't quite figured out how to mod units yet.

By the time Conquests came out, I recall that it was all mod'aible by that time. I think Flicster was out well before conquests. I know a large number of units were already released. Also With conquest, PTW and the vanilla units, there were already more units available (including many in the scenarios) which could be added to your own mod, or the main game if you prefered. it came with a working editor. Which allowed you to add units to the game. This editor did require that you somehow have these units to add... but the basic abilty was there. It was this abilty I was talking about. You "COULD" add units to the game. But it did not make those units for you. Having the editor not make units, is to me, a reasonable limitation.
I think what i said was accurate.
And my point, which I think we agree on, is that Civ4 claiming super moddability should have (at a bare minimum) included all the functionality that conquests started with.

And my point, which I think we agree on, is that Civ4 claiming super moddability should have (at a bare minimum) included all the functionality that conquests started with.Do you think they should have included all the fan made content made in the two years before conquests too? ;)
The only thing C3C PTW brought was scenario search folders and the Add and Delete buttons in the editor (well, and a bunch of units, but that's content, not functionality), everything else was available in vanilla or made by fans.

Do you think they should have included all the fan made content made in the two years before conquests too? ;)
The only thing C3C PTW brought was scenario search folders and the Add and Delete buttons in the editor (well, and a bunch of units, but that's content, not functionality), everything else was available in vanilla or made by fans.

No I don't think they should have included all the content from any period of time. Did I ever mention content? No. Lets not change the topic and pretend it is the same converstation.
I spoke only of functionality which was present in Civ3 Conquests from day one and is missing from Civ4. Specifically the there is no editor. There is no method to add a unit even if you found one by magic.
The fact that some (most) of this functionality was present before Conquests only makes my complaint stronger not weaker.
Out of the box more modding was possible with Conquests then Civ4; and Civ3 (any version) never advertised itself as especially moddable.
I quote from the civ4 box "an unprecidented level of modding power..." this is just BS. How can any person claim it is moddable when you lack even the simplest of tools. You can not add a unit, only change a few skins. And even this was released by accident when they said how to fix a bug the game has with ATI video cards.
To me it is patently false to sell yourself as this super moddable game and not be as moddable and the "regular" game you hope to replace.

No I don't think they should have included all the content from any period of time. Did I ever mention content? No. Lets not change the topic and pretend it is the same converstation.You do have "show smilies" flagged in your user cp, don't you? ;) I was not serious.
Civ 4 is probably more moddable than people think, they just have to learn a programming language.
Which I'm not interested in, so I'll stay with Civ 3.

I am still of the view that firaxis infact wanted to save civ3, by making some of the stuff in civ4 worse than they were in Civ3. This is very dissapointing ofcourse, but it is what happened with civ3 and civ2: having no events file was imo not just a "bad idea" (they could always have it in some x-pack), it was downright cheap; a trick so that civ2 wouldnt die.
That said modability for 2d civ3 graphics already was not great, due to the many files. How many terrain files were ever made for civ3? not that many, and of those not all were high quality. How many different sets of trees? 10 maybe? In over 5 years? That is poor modability.

You do have "show smilies" flagged in your user cp, don't you? ;) I was not serious.
Civ 4 is probably more moddable than people think, they just have to learn a programming language.
Which I'm not interested in, so I'll stay with Civ 3.
Yes I do have show smiles on. In my defense it is 4:34am, and I am clearly quite thick when sleep deprived.
For me, it is not if I should learn to program, I am a programmer professionally. I know Python, XML, etc. I don't agree with this approach only because it makes it less accessible to MOD to those without my skills. I object more to the likely requirement that units be made with 3d studio max or Maya (which cost 10-20x's as much as Bryce & Poser, the two main commercial tools for Civ3 (plus all the free ones).
I don't like the super low poly models they used. They look nasty. Wyrmshadow's, Aaglo's, Kinboats, Bebro's, VingrJoe and many others have made better looking units for Civ3.
The biggest complaint I have is the one I went off and ranted to you a moment ago about. It is ultimately less accessable to most modders and even those who have the skills will likely lack the full set of costly tools... and even if you have the skills and the tools, they left out most of the basic stuff you can do with the Civ3 editor(s).

grumble... off to bed.

Varwnos, I don't believe that at all. They live by selling games, not by making good games that people can play for years and years.
Besides, the forests we have are quite good, maybe people think they're good enough? Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
There's been at least five versions of elf cities in that time, and that's a smaller thing than ordinary forests, after all.

@Bjornlo: Bump your Irony Detector up a notch whenever I say something preposterous. ;) Good night. :)

I don't know why, but when I read Firaxis' claim on the Civ4 box that states "An unprecedented level of modding power allows you to customize the units...etc", it reminds me of one of Chris Farley's lines from the movie Tommy Boy:

"Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will."

I really don't know where I'm going with that, so please don't ask me explain.

Civ4 Vanilla is a better product out the door than Civ3 vanilla was. C3C, with all the modding files available on the net is better than Civ4, IMHO. But the fact that Civ4 is better from it's start than Civ3 was at its, tells me that Civ4 will eventually be better than than anything Civ3. It will just take several patches, an expansion or two, and a year or two of modders picking away at it. I plan on doing all my modding in Civ3 still (I need to finish my current projects), and will eventually start modding in Civ4.

Civ4 Vanilla is a better product out the door than Civ3 vanilla was. C3C, with all the modding files available on the net is better than Civ4, IMHO. But the fact that Civ4 is better from it's start than Civ3 was at its, tells me that Civ4 will eventually be better than than anything Civ3. It will just take several patches, an expansion or two, and a year or two of modders picking away at it. I plan on doing all my modding in Civ3 still (I need to finish my current projects), and will eventually start modding in Civ4.
That's exactly what I've been trying to say. Civ4 is NOT the successor to C3C. It's the successor to Civ3 vanilla. C3C was the result of years of development upon the original program. You can't expect a new game to be more developed than one that has had 2 expansion packs and 5 years of work.

I completely agree. 5 years from now Civ4 will be light years ahead of Civ3. And like I said my guess will be about a year to two before it surpasses C3C.

I don't know why, but when I read Firaxis' claim on the Civ4 box that states "An unprecedented level of modding power allows you to customize the units...etc", it reminds of one of Chris Farley's lines from the movie Tommy Boy:

"Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will."

I really don't know where I'm going with that, so please don't ask me explain.
LOL good one ;)
Civ 4 is probably more moddable than people think, they just have to learn a programming language.
So the average user is unable to mod the game how exactly does that make a game more moddable?

That's exactly what I've been trying to say. Civ4 is NOT the successor to C3C. It's the successor to Civ3 vanilla. C3C was the result of years of development upon the original program. You can't expect a new game to be more developed than one that has had 2 expansion packs and 5 years of work.
Sure I can.

Imagine if other software worked the same way.
Well you can't expect Windows XP to be as nice as Windows 95, after all Windows 95 was patched so many times we lost count.
You can't expect the new radar controller software to be as fancy as the previous version. You can only compare it to the version 1.0 of the pervious version.
This is nonsense.
NO ONE ever ships a product to compete with anything less then the very latest build they themselves released of their previous product.

I work in the software industry myself. I do not hold Firaxis to a higher standard then I hold myself. But the fact is they don't seem to even have tried to match the BS they were spewing.
Also, the assumption that it may someday be better, is just wishful thinking for now. If history were a accurate predictor, then yes this will happen. Of course if history were actually an accurate predictor of future events, we would now have recently concluded WW3 and only had 13 more years until the out break of WW4. This is all fantasy. So is the claim that Civ4 will someday be as good as they originally advertised.

I own Civ4. I've played it 5 times so far. It is not a horrible game. It is not as bad as Moo3. It is also not as good as Civ3. I wish it were. I hope it will be, but I don't believe a word Firaxis has said so far because everything they have said has proven to be mostly or entirely false. I have no doubt (I'm gullible to a degree I guess) that their intentions were good. But what they delivered was only "average", and that is not how you replace a legend.

Imagine Bret Farve (an NFL quarterback headed to the hall of fame after his retirement) was retiring, you advertise that you're gonna draft this amazing new player with the arm of payton manning, the legs of mike vick, and more brains then Farve and Kurt Warner combined.... And what showed up was a Tim Rattay or Brian Griese... sure they don't suck, but they have nothing in common with the BS that was spouted. Would you accept the 'line' that Oh sure they're not as fast, accurate, smart, strong, etc as we said, but they will be some day?
I think not.
Civ4 doesn't suck. But thus far it is more about the promises they didn't keep then the ones they did. disappointing.

I would add into the general mix that --since Civ3's release -- I've not believed a word about support for the modding community. Sure, Civ3 has all the pretty modding screens, but the overall modding process is (to put it mildly) cumbersome, and it wasn't Firaxis who released utilities like the MultiTool (that was Gramphos :thumbsup: ). Plus documentation on little things like why/how the AI makes its choices were never forthcoming for Civ3 and I doubt will be for Civ4 -- we'll be ripping apart DLLs and fiddling with C++ code until the proverbial cows come home to, say, "repair" the purported retreat of Civ4 back to Civ2-style use of artillery (I'm still waiting for Amazon to get the bloody game to me, so I can't speak with too much personal experience yet).

I imagine that the course of modding -- and that's assuming little things like being able to add units -- will evolve differently around Civ4, with most of us waiting for those of us who can program and are willing to develop intermediate tools to manipulate Civ4 files and code. Oh yeah, and, once we start modding the C++, making certain that differently modded pieces of code are compatible should be, um, interesting.

So, overall, yeah, I'd say the jury's probably out on Civ4 for, oh, say, another two years or so.

Just my $.02.

Best,

Oz

Sure I can.

Imagine if other software worked the same way.
Well you can't expect Windows XP to be as nice as Windows 95, after all Windows 95 was patched so many times we lost count.
You can't expect the new radar controller software to be as fancy as the previous version. You can only compare it to the version 1.0 of the pervious version.
This is nonsense.
NO ONE ever ships a product to compete with anything less then the very latest build they themselves released of their previous product.

I work in the software industry myself. I do not hold Firaxis to a higher standard then I hold myself. But the fact is they don't seem to even have tried to match the BS they were spewing.
Also, the assumption that it may someday be better, is just wishful thinking for now. If history were a accurate predictor, then yes this will happen. Of course if history were actually an accurate predictor of future events, we would now have recently concluded WW3 and only had 13 more years until the out break of WW4. This is all fantasy. So is the claim that Civ4 will someday be as good as they originally advertised.

I own Civ4. I've played it 5 times so far. It is not a horrible game. It is not as bad as Moo3. It is also not as good as Civ3. I wish it were. I hope it will be, but I don't believe a word Firaxis has said so far because everything they have said has proven to be mostly or entirely false. I have no doubt (I'm gullible to a degree I guess) that their intentions were good. But what they delivered was only "average", and that is not how you replace a legend.

Imagine Bret Farve (an NFL quarterback headed to the hall of fame after his retirement) was retiring, you advertise that you're gonna draft this amazing new player with the arm of payton manning, the legs of mike vick, and more brains then Farve and Kurt Warner combined.... And what showed up was a Tim Rattay or Brian Griese... sure they don't suck, but they have nothing in common with the BS that was spouted. Would you accept the 'line' that Oh sure they're not as fast, accurate, smart, strong, etc as we said, but they will be some day?
I think not.
Civ4 doesn't suck. But thus far it is more about the promises they didn't keep then the ones they did. disappointing.

One can say the same thing about Civ3 when it came out. Civ2 was a much better game in many ways than Civ3, but Civ3 is better in other ways. Same with Civ3 to Civ4. Over all it IS a better game. MUCH better. What it is lacking is mods, and that takes time. There are a few bugs, as all games have at ship time. There are less civs than C3C had, but that can and will be fixed with future expansions and mods.

You clearly are new to the Civ series. I have everything Civ (I - IV, SMACX, even CTP 1 & 2). People like you bark every time a new version or even expansion comes out. What you need to realize is they are making a NEW game. They are going to change some stuff - that is how it happens. Otherwise it would be a third expansion. No matter what they do, someone will be pissed about it. There is no pleasing everyone. Unlike Civ3, Firaxis was smart and had dozens of very experienced players play test and even help design the game. Civ4 is partially fan-built. This is the most solid version ever. Do the research yourself - there is larger maps, more resources, and many more options and dynamics than there has ever been before.

You people have been whining about how this game sucks since before it was released. I was concerned at some things I saw, but decided to wait and see before going to the forums with guns blazing. Am I happy with every single change and the bugs it shipped with? Hell no. it has plenty room for improvement. Do I think it is the best TBS game released ever? YES I DO.

This Game IS better than C3C in more ways than it is less. It crashes, is harder to mod, and has few mods available. In all other ways it is superior. I fully expect all three of those issues to be addressed in the near future. I don't mind that it is much more complex to mod, because that comes hand-in-hand with it having much more available TO mod - leaving us with a LOT more things to play with. My comments about waiting for it to surpass C3C were ONLY relating to the modding community and some of the bugs in the initial shipment.

My advice to EVERYONE is to read all you can in the forums, and put at least 10 hours playing the game before posting about how much it sucks. Until you do, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Well I don't plan on buying the game. Therefore no civ4 work for me.

And don't make any spurious claims like "You clearly are new to the Civ series." What do you know about what Bjornlo has or doesn't?

Amesjustin,

i concur w/ Bjorn.

while i bought civ4 myself, it unfortunately won't run on my pc.

however, my concerns are that those who made civ4 have taken a step back, not forward. sure, the ability to mod civ4 will be much greater than civ3, etc. however, and it is a big however, it appears that modding civ4 will not be user friendly...at least compared to civ3. now, don't get me wrong, i'm not trashing civ4. but the fact remains that, for all intensive purposes, this vanilla civ4 is a beta and that it will take time and effort to fix this.

also, w/ the distinct lack of user-made gfx for civ4 for the foreseeable future, the new civ game will take quite some time to reach the "modability" of civ3. changing around some stats is not my idea of "modding". adding in units, new civs, maps, rules, etc, etc, is what i want.

plus, who's to say that civ3's most talented unit creators will want to pony up the 4 figures to purchase the software needed to make units, etc for civ4? sure, some new peeps may come onto the scene but the bottom line is that it'll take a long, long time before we are able to truly mod as the designers had predicted. as such, civ4 is (for now), for lack of a better term, a BETA version.

Well, the created units for Civ3 Vanilla were great, but the Completed Scenarios did not get to "great" until the last expansion got out. I say give it 3 years then Im going to start my scenarios. Yes, I am that patient.

About Civ4 being a beta. Honestly it is much less a beta than Civ3 was when initially released. I am not so crazy myself about Civ4 yet (albeit a beta-tester but probably because of my PC specifics) for some reasons but you cannot compare the 2. I love Conquests and would have liked another expansion with more flags and events but it is only that expansion that really made Civ3 a great game. Vanilla Civ, especially unpatched, could not do anything.

You clearly are new to the Civ series.
I thank your for your opinion no matter how wrong it is. It is a long standing, and failed, tactic to attack a person when logic fails.
If you had clicked on my name, you'd have seen that I have been playing CIV as long as anyone not involved with beta-testing the original.
But that doesn't matter. My opinion and the facts about the limitations of Civ4 and a number of design mistakes they made would be just as valid if I started playing a few weeks ago rather then in 1991.
Also your comments about play first is as off base as the rest of your comments. I have played it. I own it. My comments did not turn strongly worded until after I had spent 20+ hours playing it.
But I am done defending myself, especially from pompous know-it-alls who lack the reading abilty to even look at the posts they choose to attack.
You think this game is the best TBS? I think you should try some others. Civ4 does not suck. Civ3 is currently better, and is a TBS.
You are quite inconsistent and rambling in your comments. It is the best game ever. Wait until it gets really good with the fans fixing it.

This has been very interesting to read through. Both as a little potted history of the scene (I was off enjoying real life during civ2 and early civ3) and as an insight into civ4 develop.

But I'd like to offer you guys another view of this user friendliness you speak of and the importance of modding development in games such as civ. It's clear many of you have intimate knowledge of all the nuts and bolts that go into modding any version. And you speak of the user friendly factor being low. Well spare a thought for those of us who have no knowledge whatsoever for these things. There are vast swathes of die hard civ fanatics, who love their history and love their strategy and love their civ. Luceafarul and I often lament our inbuilt technical deficiencies for starters but there are many many more out there not even aware of CFC and we are left largely speechless infront of a pediaicons file..

So with this in mind, I'd like to say that without CFC and all of your efforts, people like us would not even have the first clue where to start. And of course, that's NO thanks to Firaxis and BIG thanks to all here. The help just isn't there in terms we understand from the franchise and it seems they've done it again with civ4. To be frank I see it as development on the cheap.

But cynicism aside, this presents a major offering and challenge to the franchise wrt modding. If they can up the user friendly factor and take modding development more seriously so that us computer halfwits can actually use these things, then three great things will happen: a) The existing, in the know, modders will fly even higher and even faster. b) The nitwits who have never played around with such nuts and bolts matters will enlarge the offerings in C&C forums. c) They will offer something that is actually a user friendly editor and is not entwined with all kinds of mysteries, for all levels of modders.

EDIT: I'd like to see the day!

Well I don't plan on buying the game. Therefore no civ4 work for me.

And don't make any spurious claims like "You clearly are new to the Civ series." What do you know about what Bjornlo has or doesn't?
YAY! The best news to come out of this thread!

well said Rambuchan.

Just wait untill Civ X, I'm sure they'll get your request by then ;)

This is going nowhere. Can't you all agree to disagree ?
In fact, it's a little annoying to see that topic up every time I visit the forum. :p

This is going nowhere. Can't you all agree to disagree ?
In fact, it's a little annoying to see that topic up every time I visit the forum. :p

Hear, hear!


(Yes, I realize my comment bumps the thread up to the top again. ;) )

Hello Utah! What have you been up to? Playing some good mods?

Utah any chance you might surprise us with some more of your wonderful units?

Well I don't plan on buying the game. Therefore no civ4 work for me.

And don't make any spurious claims like "You clearly are new to the Civ series." What do you know about what Bjornlo has or doesn't?

Yay! that's the best news I've heard in a while, because I assume that means
more great units for Civ3 :goodjob: I have Civ IV and think that as it is now I'll probably rather go to the dentist than play a full game of it again :lol:

Almost copied your post in the first sentence there BadKharma

on the dentist remark, I actually had a tooth removed being almost non receptive to novacaine, if there ever was a glimpse of hell, that was it.

hell no dude... civ3 wont die :D
civ4 will die much sooner...
civ4 is crap if you ask my opinion... horribly graphics and... god damit... they made civ4 worse than civ3...

I think I am beginning to see a pattern with Firaxis' opening releases.

Yay! that's the best news I've heard in a while, because I assume that means
more great units for Civ3 :goodjob: I have Civ IV and think that as it is now I'll probably rather go to the dentist than play a full game of it again :lol:

Almost copied your post in the first sentence there BadKharma

on the dentist remark, I actually had a tooth removed being almost non receptive to novacaine, if there ever was a glimpse of hell, that was it.
Wow being non-receptive to "caine" drugs is a very bad thing I hope you never have cardiac problems. No problem about almost copying the post Wyrm is one hell of a great unit maker.

Well, from what I've seen in the Civ IV forums, you'll either need 3DS Max or Maya (or Blender to export unanimated models) to make units for Civ IV. Even though I technically could afford the first two programs, it would not be worth it, IMO just to mod a game that (from everything I've read and seen thus far) just doesn't appeal to me in the first place, and as for Blender, even though it is free, it is extremely buggy and about as easy to understand as Mayan heiroglyphs....

That being said, I'm sticking with Civ III (and SSS once it's complete), and I used the money I would have spent on Civ IV to buy AoE III (which has 10X better graphics than Civ IV and it's freaking REAL TIME on top of it, not to mention the gameplay r0x0rs!).

That's all I have to say on this subject.

I like turn based better than real time myself because the genre is so rare now, with Civ, Galactic Civilizations and Age of Wonders the only real games in the genre left compared to the many RTS titles.

as for Blender, even though it is free, it is extremely buggy and about as easy to understand as Mayan heiroglyphs....
LOL isnt that the truth.........how do you like AOE3? I heard it is pretty processor intensive.

Well, from what I've seen in the Civ IV forums, you'll either need 3DS Max or Maya (or Blender to export unanimated models) to make units for Civ IV. Even though I technically could afford the first two programs, it would not be worth it, IMO just to mod a game that (from everything I've read and seen thus far) just doesn't appeal to me in the first place, and as for Blender, even though it is free, it is extremely buggy and about as easy to understand as Mayan heiroglyphs....

That being said, I'm sticking with Civ III (and SSS once it's complete), and I used the money I would have spent on Civ IV to buy AoE III (which has 10X better graphics than Civ IV and it's freaking REAL TIME on top of it, not to mention the gameplay r0x0rs!).

That's all I have to say on this subject.
I've been reading about it to, and I am in the same situation as you. I could buy Maya or 3ds Max; but, I can't see why I should spend a couple of grand to just mod a game. A couple of hundred, ok.... but 1000's is just goofy.
Also the blender option seems to be a non-starter for now. I've read that the plugin for Blender is extremely unreliable, plus I just don't care for Blender.
I own AOE3 as well as Civ4. AOE3 is a better game. It is RTS, so I use the pause button alot.
@SoG: don't forget MOO2, it is still for sale, and is one of the all time best turn-based-strats. It is a bit dated in graphics, but not TOO bad. And just a hoot to play.

LOL isnt that the truth.........how do you like AOE3? I heard it is pretty processor intensive.
It is very nice. I have a very fast processor, so I can't say anything bad about it. The unit graphics in particular are much better then Civ4.

Ensemble is a decent company. I've always been satisfied(although I question some of their choices, but that is miner) with their games.

It is very nice. I have a very fast processor, so I can't say anything bad about it. The unit graphics in particular are much better then Civ4.
Thanks Bjornlo I always liked AOE2, and RON for RTS games guess I'll need to add AOE3 to my shopping list ;)

It is very nice. I have a very fast processor, so I can't say anything bad about it. The unit graphics in particular are much better then Civ4.

I'm with Bjorn on this. I'm running the game on a P IV 2GHz machine with 64 MB GeFOrce IV MMX video card and 738 MB of DDR ram, so the game runs smooth as silk (not that I had any doubts, since it could run UT2k3 on the highest model and detail settings with no problems whatsoever), but my friend who has a Pentium III machine runs it just as well. I'm currently whooping up with my favorite civ (the Germans) and teaching the AI to fear my Hussite War Wagons :evil:

Basically AoE III is like Colonization meets AoE II in 3D and real-time. The only (very minor) gripe I have with the game is that you can't drop a Fort right in the middle of the enemy town (like you could with AoE II), but you can still plant it close enough to make a good Fwd base (I usually build my Fwd base around a Native American village that's close to the enemy lines, giving me the ability to field a ton of units right beside an enemy town on short notice).

Even though my Civ III graphics/unit production will suffer somewhat, I'll still be working on stuff in between AoE III skirmishes and campaigns.

My apologies for lashing out at you, Bjornlo. I was in the worst of moods, and was (in my mind) lashing out at the general populace of naysayers that pop up every time a new version arises. I didn't intend on it being a personal attack, but looking back on it I can see that you can take it that way. I do stand by the logic that I did put into the argument, but apologize for framing in the way I did.

Civ4 is a mixed bag, but the potential for greatness is much more than there is in Civ3. I tend to see things from a modding perspective more than a players, and being a programmer the possibility of building my own game loosely based on Civ4 has me pretty jazzed.

At any rate, sorry for the misdirected grumpiness.

Has anyone posted a poll for a comparison between civ3 and civ4? This should be interesting, if we have a link in both forums (we don't want only civ3 funs to vote, don't we?)

Oh, what a thought. Don't encourage it!

Make sure you include a "they both r0x0rs and I will play them both for years to come" option. ;)

I will post this poll lol?

After buying CivIV, and seeing the great graphics, I played it for a while, but soon lost interest. I relized I had become an observer, an most play was being done by the computer, great graphics, no content... I soon found myself loading Conquests, and playing it again...:(

Raaaaaaaah

;)

You don't have to click the flashing buttons... ;)
I've gone back to C3C a few times, but just because I have a few good games going that I don't want to abandon. When I lose interest in Civ4, I just play C3C for a while and then come back. It always works.

@Supa: what was that? :hmm: