Civ4 GOTM

What is the "GOTM"?
The GOTM is the "Game Of The Month". It started over 4 years ago with the Civilization 2 GOTM - which is still running. A Civilization 3 GOTM started a few months later and now also run a Civ3 Conquests version as well. In this tradition, we're now running a Civ4 version.

The Game Of The Month is a friendly single-player competition. A starting save file is posted, and players download and play it. They post write-ups describing how their games progressed, the strategies they used, what they learnt and what they felt they did well. This is a great way for new players to ask questions and lern strategies to improve their games.

How do I join?
To join, all you need is a copy of Civ4, patched to the latest version, and a Civilization Fanatics Center membership (login) account. Once the competition is up-and-running, save files will be posted on or around the first of each month. Download it, play it, and be sure to submit it before the end of the month.

What are the rules?
The rules are fairly simple: Play fairly.

This means that you play within the spirit of the competition. As it is a friendly competition, we like to believe that there is no real incentive to cheat - but unfortunately, people do. Any persons found to be cheating will have their games removed, and there is a strong possibility that they will be banned from participating in the future.

Cheating includes (and is not limited to):
Playing the game multiple times and submitting the best effort (or even playing to get knowledge of the map, the replaying then starting the game again).
Using any sort of programs to edit the game or save files.
Altering the XML or using other mods that give you an unfair advantage.
Reloading an earlier save-file and replaying turns in a different way. The only time you may reload a save file is to start a new play session, and you must use the save file from the end of your previous session.


Please note that some people believe that reloading (in particular) isn't serious cheating. We, however, consider it to be and have zero tolerance on it. Please also be aware that if you do it, we can detect it, and we will act on it.

Also, if in doubt, ask. If you think you have found a new loop-hole or exploit, then we strongly suggest that you ask as to its legallity before you use it. The aim of the competition is not to see who can exploit the rules, and as such, we reserve the right to disqualify submissions based on exploits that are discovered later.

So - how is it run?
The actual format will vary over time as we get feedback from the players. But the basic format is as follows:
Pre-game Discussion: A few days before the end of the month, the starting screenshot is posted, along with the map script details, difficulty etc. This allows people to discuss strategies based onthe initial information.
Game release: On or around the first of the month, the game is released. At this point, people are allowed to download and play it, but once they've started playing it, they should not post any info on it.
Spoiler Threads: A number of spoiler threads are normally opened in which people discuss what happened in their games - strategies, other civs, resources, game play and the like. The spoilers are spread to cover different periods of the game. The rason for this is so that people can contribute throughout the month - people who have completed the early part of the game can still contribute without having to worry that in reading the thread they'll see where the mordern-age resources are (for example). The first spoiler is normally opened on or around the 5th of the month.
Results: We aim to have the results posted within 7-10 days following the completion of the game (the end of the month).

What are we playing for?
Generally, you are playing for your own enjoyment, and perhaps to improve your game. In the Civ3 GOTM, we offer 'medals' for first, second and third place; awards for the fastest finish in each particular victory type, as well as recognition for the lowest scores in each victory type (and a couple of consolation awards for the highest & lowest scoring defeats).

We also maintain a 'global ranking'. This is effectively a ranking over a number of games, with a decay figure so that your most recent games count for more - its similar to rankings in tennis or golf. This will be developed over the next few months so taht we get the weightings right.

Are there any other activities?
In the Civ3 GOTM, we also run "Quick Games" and the "Quick Start Challenge".

Quick games are short scenarios, often based on events from actual players' Game Of the Month entries. They have a short, specific goal - be it to research a certain tech as fast as possible, to defeat a certain AI in the fewest turns, to explore the map the fastest or even to get the best value out of trades. We may run these for C-IV as well; perhaps offering some small recognition for the best performer.

The "Quick Start Challenge" in Civ3 was aimed at seeing who could provide the best foundation for their empire up to 1000 BC (first 80 turns of the game). Scoring was weighted on such factors as number of cities, units, gold, food, buildings, technologies etc - and was by no means perfect. If there is enough interest in a similar event for CIV (and we can agree on a scoring methodology! ;)) then we may run one of these in a few months time as well.

Sound very good this C-IV GOTM!
But the big question everyone has in mind is : WHEN ? ??????
Please tell us....:confused:

LeSphinx

Sound very good this C-IV GOTM!
But the big question everyone has in mind is : WHEN ? ??????
Please tell us....:confused:

LeSphinx
Not until the first patch comes out. :(

Ok, we've got GOTM for Civ 3 vanilla & PTW players and COTM for Conquest players (and SGOTM for the SG fans). How about a new acronym for the Civ 4 game. The potential confusion when discussion turns to past games is quite likely.

4otm. ;)

ohh this sounds fun!
I wish I woulds have found this place back in Civ 2 days....
*patiently waits*

There is a Civ2 GOTM to keep you occupied while you wait.
http://civ2gotm.civfanatics.net/

So when will http://civ4gotm.civfanatics.net be active? :mischief:

So when will http://civ4gotm.civfanatics.net be active? :mischief:
I refer you to:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ-gotm.php

The date is provisional :rolleyes:

Please note that some people believe that reloading (in particular) isn't serious cheating. We, however, consider it to be and have zero tolerance on it. Please also be aware that if you do it, we can detect it, and we will act on it.This appears to imply that you know the save file format. So will CIVAssist be coming any time soon? After Christmas, I will have a fair amount spare time and would be happy to volunteer some of it to the community.

First candidate for the "allowed/disallowed exploit" list: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3283054

First candidate for the "allowed/disallowed exploit" list: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3283054
:ack: Or a bug report.

Thanks, Dave.

Not really a bug report, but I take your meaning. Hopefully they will fix it.

In the meantime,

a) how is it possible to ban information which the program freely gives?

b) I thought the AI was as blind in CIV4 as us mere mortals, If so, this simply couldn't happen. This is disturbing. Is Firaxis being honest with us?

We wouldn't really be able to ban that.

Re CIV4 AI being 'blind', I believe that this just means that they make their decisions on such things as where to settle based on information at-hand, rather than foreknowledge of resources etc. There have been a few threads commenting on whether they truly are blind - however I have seen them miss goody huts etc even near their own boundaries.

According to the report, the AI makes different suggestions based on whether or not there are other civs on your continent. If this really is true it is proof that it does act on pre-knowledge of the map despite Firaxis' claims to the contrary.

Like me, you are a programmer. So you know that if the AI "peeks" at the map, this has to have been an explicit decision on the part of the developers. The proper fix is to stop peeking, not to hide it from humans.

I truly hope that this report turns out to be erronious.

There have been a few threads commenting on whether they truly are blind - however I have seen them miss goody huts etc even near their own boundaries.
Even if they aren't blind they may still be stupid :rolleyes:

Like me, you are a programmer. So you know that if the AI "peeks" at the map, this has to have been an explicit decision on the part of the developers. The proper fix is to stop peeking, not to hide it from humans.Yes, but it could be an oversight rather than something intentional. Anyway - I've highlighted it, and hopefully it will get fixed. :)

Yes, but it could be an oversight rather than something intentional. Anyway - I've highlighted it, and hopefully it will get fixed. :)I really can't see how it could be an oversight. Firaxis has made a big deal about how the C-IV AI is blind and all their AI people must be aware of it. Aside from the fact that Sorens himself has taken personal responsibility for the AI, it is simply not possible is make this kind of error by accident. It takes an explicit decision on the part of the programmer.

However. It is quite possible that the report is wrong. E.g. Tanaka noticed a pattern over a few games and it was simply the luck of the draw. I sincerely hope this turns out to be the case.

I'm almost positive the AI's know where iron/copper are before they learn the techs, even in civ4. Far too often a civ that is heading down the religion tree towards organized religion will settle in the middle of a desert early in the game. I'll be like why would they want to settle there? Sure enough after I learn iron working I find that they settled next to iron, even though they didn't have the tech at the time.

I really can't see how it could be an oversight. Firaxis has made a big deal about how the C-IV AI is blind and all their AI people must be aware of it. Aside from the fact that Sorens himself has taken personal responsibility for the AI, it is simply not possible is make this kind of error by accident. It takes an explicit decision on the part of the programmer.

I wouldn't be too sure. Dealing with hundreds of thousands of lines of code, not all of which you even wrote yourself, it would be easy to forget where any legitimate "peeking" is done and accidently use that code in a function that it shouldn't be used in.

For a hypothetical example, a start position analysis function for map generation would see all resources so it could place starting positions on whatever criteria. If you re-use the code from there, or call any of the related helper functions directly in the AI city site analysis functions, without remembering or catching that this code doesn't limit itself by tech level, you've now given the AI "pre-sight" in an unintended way.

They could have tried to slip instances of AI "pre-sight" past everyone... but they are releasing the SDK in January. I find it hard to fathom that any game developer would do something they know for sure will be brought to light as evidence they weren't telling the truth. There's really nothing to gain from it, and everything to lose. That and the fact that there's just so much code that mistakes will be made, makes me think these instances, if they hold up, would be accidental rather than intentional.

I'm almost positive the AI's know where iron/copper are before they learn the techs, even in civ4. Far too often a civ that is heading down the religion tree towards organized religion will settle in the middle of a desert early in the game. I'll be like why would they want to settle there? Sure enough after I learn iron working I find that they settled next to iron, even though they didn't have the tech at the time.

I think the city site "advice circles" are showing the exact same analysis that the AI is using to determing where to found cities. So if this is true, the player would also be privileged to (some of?) the information at least.

I think the city site "advice circles" are showing the exact same analysis that the AI is using to determing where to found cities. So if this is true, the player would also be privileged to (some of?) the information at least.

I've had "advice circles" move after exploring a bit of the map with my settler. In one case, the two circles were on either side of a hill. After moving my settler on top of the hill (and exposing more of the map), the hill became one of the advised locations for start. I'm assuming that the advice was based on the visible map and not on the hidden map based on this behavior.

According to the report, the AI makes different suggestions based on whether or not there are other civs on your continent. If this really is true it is proof that it does act on pre-knowledge of the map despite Firaxis' claims to the contrary. This can easily be caused by changed draws from the random number generator.

Since this is early in the Civ4 gotm process, is there any interest in reviving the medal series games? maybe just make them quick games, (ie, on small or tiny random maps)? I've found that CIV can be much faster (in RL terms) than Civ3 etc, especially on the smaller maps.

edit: also, since the knowledge base on this new game is pretty new, maybe we can learn more about it if everyone goes for the same goal? (I am refering to the old medal games setup)

It's not even necessary to have a separate competition.

There's nothing preventing us from constraining a gotm to a single victory condition. The submission system already caters for it. If a condition is defined for the game then only entries that meet that objective are considered winners.

Given that we don't know how well the in-game scoring system will allow us to compare entries across multiple VCs yet, this could well be a way to provide better ranking of the results.

that would be great.
i'm a "builder" so i always go for the same victory.... build up cities, get ahead in tech, use tech advantage to win a quick war....build up tech more.... use tech advantage to.....
and then it always becomes a race within my own civilization to either kill all the enemy civs or launch the space ship.
being forced into trying for a couple different victory conditions could definetly be fun (like for example, the way i play i would NEVER win a diplomatic victory, all the AIs usualy hate me).

Yes, but...
Back in Cracker's time the prefered victory-condition was always contrary to the civ's traits. If I play the Romans I want to take advantage of their traits, not turn them into art-loving industrialists or something like that.

Cracker has left the building ... as far as I know :mischief: :scan:

I wouldn't be too sure. Dealing with hundreds of thousands of lines of code, not all of which you even wrote yourself, it would be easy to forget where any legitimate "peeking" is done and accidently use that code in a function that it shouldn't be used in.

For a hypothetical example, a start position analysis function for map generation would see all resources so it could place starting positions on whatever criteria. If you re-use the code from there, or call any of the related helper functions directly in the AI city site analysis functions, without remembering or catching that this code doesn't limit itself by tech level, you've now given the AI "pre-sight" in an unintended way.

They could have tried to slip instances of AI "pre-sight" past everyone... but they are releasing the SDK in January. I find it hard to fathom that any game developer would do something they know for sure will be brought to light as evidence they weren't telling the truth. There's really nothing to gain from it, and everything to lose. That and the fact that there's just so much code that mistakes will be made, makes me think these instances, if they hold up, would be accidental rather than intentional.

And when you're dealing with code, it isn't always so obvious what is visible and what isn't visible. Just because that's your view on the world as a user doesn't mean that's your view on the world as a developer. Perhaps someone forgot to check if something was visible or not at some point, which *does* make it an accident and not intentional.

And when you're dealing with code, it isn't always so obvious what is visible and what isn't visible.

IMHO, that would be a design flaw. If they can hide the right things from the user, they can hide them from the AI. They don't have to code the AI and the map in one big mess. A little bit of structure sometimes helps.

Depends. But a flaw is still unintentional.

Hi, sorry to change the subject but I'm new to the GOTM experience and would like to know how you: 1. Download saves so you can play them. 2. Submit them to this site after finishing them. 3. How to delete from your game when you are done with it (I can live with the High score). Thanks for your time and a quick response would be greatly appreciated.

Well, the game hasn't started yet, so there are no save files to download.

When they become available, there will be a forum thread posted here which has a link to the download page - alternatively, it will be accessible from the GOTM website (gotm.civfanatics.net).

To submit the GOTM, there will be an upload page - http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ-gotm.php

As for deleting from the HOF? Not really sure. I think deleting the replay file does it - but we'd prefer that people keep these until we've posted the results.

I meant for the future or for Succession (sp) games. Thanks though anyway. I wanted to partake (once more sp) in one and could not find a place that listed how to do those three things so I decided to post here where many of the things you do involve those three questions.

Succession games run to their own individual procedures. They don't have the structure we need to handle hundreds of game submissions per month, so they don't use a dedicated server like ours with automated scoring and results processing.

There are some guidelines in the Civ3 Succession Games forum that don't seem to have been transferred across to Civ4 (yet). The general principles (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=14235) should be the same for both games, and here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=55122) are some tips on handling saves and screenshots that may help.

Cool, thanks. That solved my questions. You can return to your original discussion without fear of more questions from me.

i want join it .but if i cant finish the game at the end of the month,next month i shall play a new gotm or go on my unfinish game?(i mean to post here)

Hopefully the patch will come out After I get my new videocard.
(Bad graphical glitches)

I'm a big fan of GOTM in civ 3, I only found this site late so I have only been playing in the last three or so games. I've noticed that the site does a great ranking system generated for the Hall Of Fame games. I was thinking that this kinda thing might be useful in the GOTM games and could be started for civ 4.

This may already be happening and I've missed it, but at the moment it seems you get ranked for the one game (and maybe a medal if your good enough) but it goes no were else than that one game.

Also is the civ 4 scoring system more in line with the jason soring we used to use. One problem with civ 3 GOTM is I never saw many people close to the top three that went for any other victory condition than domination or conquest.

The GOTM games are great fun to play and the related forums really help you see how other people play the exact same situation. It's the best way I've seen to improve your skills at civ.

This may already be happening and I've missed it, ...
Could be! Have you seen the Global Rankings (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/rankings/global.php) page?

Impressive, you can tell I haven't been using this site long! Thanks

I've look at the C-iv GOTM Submission Form and I can not wait to play !!!
LeSphinx

Are we still doing Conquest/Open/Predator classes? If so, we really need to come up with better names!

Not necessary for the first time through, I think.

We're all Conquest class now.

I'm sure some will challenge themselve with the predator class even for the first c-iv GOTM !! :(

LeSphinx

Do we need to submitt screenshot of the final turn
as well as an additional save at 1000AD ?

I'm sure ainwood will explains us in the GOTM thread...
LeSphinx

Are we still doing Conquest/Open/Predator classes? If so, we really need to come up with better names!
Not initially. Might do that after a few games though.

So ainwood, have you got some good news for us for the first c-iv GOTM ???


LeSphinx

How is the spoiler format gonna be? Seems like a no-brainer:

Spoiler 1: Ancient/Classical
Spoiler 2: Medieval/Renaissance
Spoiler 3/End of Game: Industrial/Modern

It seems to me that spoilers should be based more on map knowledge and specific techs rather than on era. Eras mean a lot less in this game, where you can be in the Medieval Age without having all the starting techs.

For example, the conditions for a first spoiler might be knowledge of iron, horses and contacts with all the civs on your starting continent. Even that's difficult. I have frequently been surprised to meet a new civ when I thought I knew them all. This just does not happen in Civ3. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is, but it is real.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I find it hard to make clear rules. Obviously Astronomy is a critical tech, and anything which exposes modern resources.

I also think that two spoilers are more than enough. Maybe one is enough like they do in the RBC series. The game moves a lot quicker. There are no more hundred hour marathons in Civ4 which makes multiple spoilers less necessary. Good riddance. I may actually complete the odd GOTM.

Back to the point: having just one spoiler would certainly solve the question of where to place the cutoff point.

I agree this may require some discussion here. It's actually possible to get nationalism early and skip the Medieval Age entirely if you so choose. :crazyeye: I like having 2 or more spoilers, though. It's fun and a learning experience as you go along. Besides, it is not required, so if you don't want to, don't bother.

Perhaps a "resource based" spoiler. Iron, Copper, and Horses are revealed early on, but perhaps too early in the game for that to be a cutting point.

Another possiblility is turns, say a spoiler at 200 turns for example.

I, too, have been surprised to find another civ on my continent later in the game than I should have. This usually happens when one AI blocks you off completely from another AI and those two AI's don't get along so there's no open borders. So yeah the spoiler threads will be difficult to handle. I don't want to read a spoiler thread and find out some vital piece of information about the game that I hadn't learned on my own yet.

Maybe it will be specific for each game. Ex: Spoiler 1, Starting continents Map, certain resouces, certain techs, etc. I would just like to know in advance though, so I can note to stop and assess what I'll write for the spoiler.

Any persons found to be cheating will have their games removed, and there is a strong possibility that they will be banned from participating in the future.

Cheating includes (and is not limited to):
Playing the game multiple times and submitting the best effort (or even playing to get knowledge of the map, the replaying then starting the game again).
Using any sort of programs to edit the game or save files.
Altering the XML or using other mods that give you an unfair advantage.
Reloading an earlier save-file and replaying turns in a different way. The only time you may reload a save file is to start a new play session, and you must use the save file from the end of your previous session.


Please note that some people believe that reloading (in particular) isn't serious cheating. We, however, consider it to be and have zero tolerance on it. Please also be aware that if you do it, we can detect it, and we will act on it.

I went through a period where the most probable time for the game to crash was during the first turn you played after loading a saved game. I managed to change some settings and make it more stable, but it still does it sometimes.

If it happens again during a Civ4 GotM, wouldn't this be indistinguishable from reload cheating? In both cases you load the same save game file twice. I wouldn't want to be branded a cheater just because the game chooses the most annoying times to crash.

I'm assuming that if the game crashes in the middle of a session, you can just load the last autosave.

I know you won't want to divulge how you detect this type of cheating, but if a game crash is going to invalidate my entry, I'm not sure whether playing Game of the month is worth the risk.

I'm assuming that if the game crashes in the middle of a session, you can just load the last autosave.Correct.

I know you won't want to divulge how you detect this type of cheating, but if a game crash is going to invalidate my entry, I'm not sure whether playing Game of the month is worth the risk.If its happening regularly, then let us know via PM or e-mail to gotm@civfanatics.net.

I just started playing the GOTM and i found a minor exploit while playing the game. I don't know if this has been mentioned or not but in the info screen (F9 i think) when you go to Wonders/Top 5 Cities you can get a peek of what other civilizations you're playing against. You don't actually see the picture of the other civilizations city but i think knowing what civilizations you're playing against is a little unfair.

@T_Raccoon: Haven't played Civ 4 GOTM yet BUT, in Civ 3 GOTM it was perfectly acceptable to go to the F10-Spaceship screen and look at your opponents! ;)

I know you won't want to divulge how you detect this type of cheating, but if a game crash is going to invalidate my entry, I'm not sure whether playing Game of the month is worth the risk.

Correct.

If its happening regularly, then let us know via PM or e-mail to gotm@civfanatics.net.This happened to me (GAME Crashes that is) during the final turns of a long-ago GOTM......Most annoying.

Perhaps, to ease the "Guilt" of the Game/System crash Victim, you (GOTM Staff) should REQUIRE an email/PM stating the date of the turn where the reload(s) occurred (plus Saved File[s]?).........99+% of the time it will be a TOTALLY INNOCENT Game/Sytem crash.........as it was with the "Mod" (I assume) to GOTM of long-ago that caused the Game to crash.

Just a Thought. ;)

And Finally....

...I'm not sure whether playing Game of the month is worth the risk.IT IS!! ;)

A short question: what's the naming convention for the savegame to be submitted ? Can we just use the default name or should we use our loginname here?

A short question: what's the naming convention for the savegame to be submitted ? Can we just use the default name or should we use our loginname here?
You can use any name. Alan's submission page will rename the file anyway.

As Dianthus says the submission script renames your file to ensure that it's unique and traceable to the game and the player. The script reports back to you with both the file name you submitted and the name it's been given internally. Now that the submission script is working correctly you should also receive an email acknowledging your submission and giving a summary of the data you supplied.

For future games we shall switch on more automated file processing. You will then not need to enter so much information, as scores, dates, victory conditions and the game identity will all be extracted from your save. I also expect to eliminate the need for the Replay file to be uploaded, as we should have the capability to extract all that information from your saved game file.

I know you won't want to divulge how you detect this type of cheating, but if a game crash is going to invalidate my entry, I'm not sure whether playing Game of the month is worth the risk.

What "risk"? What do you have to lose? If your game doesn't count, you still had just as much fun playing the game as if it did count.

In Civ3 GOTM, sometimes I submitted my game, and sometimes I didn't, for various reasons (not cheating---mostly, just not finishing on time). It isn't more or less fun when you submit than when you don't. It's good to submit primarily because the community as a whole benefits from the collection of games by different players. It wouldn't really work if no one submitted. But whether any one particular game counts, or doesn't count, just doesn't matter.

How are we supposed to know at what point in the game we can open the first spoiler thread, without opening the thread to find out?

How are we supposed to know at what point in the game we can open the first spoiler thread, without opening the thread to find out?
Its always safe to read teh first post - read that and find out ;)

This might be a stupid question, but this is my first gotm and I don't know the rules so well. Can I start the game whenever I want and then just submit the needed files for example on the last day? For example can I start playing on the last day and then submit the files? I'm just asking this because of those spoiler threads. Now that I've seen a little bit of the map and know where the Greeks are, it gives me some advantage. I really would like to play but haven't had the time yet...

You are not supposed to read the spoilers until you have reached the qualifications to do so. That's why they are called 'spoilers', and the qualifications to read them are spelt out in the first post of the spoiler threads.

If you have already read the spoiler thread before you have started, or learned the same knowledge as the posters in that thread, then you have an unfair advantage over other players, and you have disqualified yourself from competing in the current game.

If you want to play in future you are welcome to play at any time of the month and to submit right up to the deadline. The countdown on the submission page tells you the remaining time to the nearest hour, and you can refresh it by refreshing your browser page. Just don't read any spoilers before you play.

I think I'm not the only one that has peeked that thread before starting to play. What I did was wrong but I didn't know that it's considered cheating. How can you even make sure that nobody will check first the spoiler threads and then start playing?

I'm just being honest to tell what a horrible, horrible crime I did :rolleyes:. So I'm gonna submit my files anyway. And since I told it at this phase, not when the whole map is showed, you should have mercy on me until someone invents a way to prevent such "cheating".

Anyway, thanks for making that clear.

I'm sorry, I must be missing something. Simple common sense, plus a quick read of the rules specified in the spoiler opening post, should tell you that reading spoilers before playing is wrong. How can it possibly be justified to take advantage of an earlier player's discoveries to beat that player's score?

The GOTM relies on people playing to the rules, and most of this depends on player honesty. In order to try to level the playing field the staff have a duty to honest players to eliminate entries that we know to be unfairly played, but we don't try to fool anyone that we can eliminate cheating if there are those determined to do it.

There are no prizes to be won here, only the satisfaction of having played a good game and beaten your own or other players' performances .. fairly. If you cheat and we don't detect it, what is your achievement? You have no way to tell whether your result is valid compared with others. What are you going to tell everyone you 'beat'? That you are a smarter cheat than them? I don't think that's a competition I would want to win or even take part in.

And if I believed that there were a significant number of people doing it then I wouldn't help organise it either.

[/rant]

Ok. I just missed the first post somehow. Only things I learned was the location of the iron source and the position of the enemy in that continent. However, I sincerely believe that information didn't help me much. I forgot the exact location of the iron source and would have found the enemy anyway. But I admit, I cheated. :blush:

Is there gonna be a list of results of all players in the end? Please include my results there, too! You can add a cheater tag next to my name if you want.:p

You must realize that typically the spoiler thread is opend by one of the GOTM Staff. Since this is CivIV we have a lot of new players who are unfamiliar with the GOTM game. In the spoiler thread Ainwood went back and editied the first post so that as soon as you started the first post you knew what was required to read on.

Realize that even if you have not met the requirements technically you are allowed to read the first post to see what the requirements are. If you haven't met the requirements simply leave the thread and come back when you have met those requirements.

For those of you who believe by posting late compared to everyone else don't feel this makes your post less looked at. In CivIII many of the really experienced players often didn't post their spoiler until either late in the game or after the games alloted time was over.

@ LauriL -- You can compare your results to the final tabulation yourself if you wish, but your game will not be accepted based on what you have told us here.

See you next month, and next time, remember to read the rules! :)

Yeah, well it's ok. It's good that I told this. Clear conscience. :) :jesus:

It does seem to me that this was a minor transgression. There has been a fair amount of confusion around this game and it seems to be unfair to single out LauriL. It is difficult to see how he could gain anything but a minor advantage from it. IMO, Aussie_Lurker's posting of the thread was an even more serious violation of the rules, yet it was accepted. I forget whether his pre-Ainwood post contained any info about qualifications. In this vein. Ainwood needs to shoulder of the blame for this too. He should not have accepted AL's thread. Instead, per the rules, he should have opened his own. Perhaps LL would have followed the rules if the staff had?

I doubt my voice will change much but I say that all these picadillos should be forgiven for this particular game. Ainwood, and all the GOTM staff, have done a fine job in setting up an enjoyable game in a difficult environment. Kudos to them. Given the confusion though, minor transgressions on the part of the players, especially newbs, should be forgiven - once.

In fact, I would argue that minor transgressions should always be tolerated for newbs, except that they cannot qualify for medals. When a hendrikszoon comes out of nowhere to win, he'd better follow the rules. I'm not suggesting that he has ever done otherwise, just that a bit more tolerance should be given to Regent newbs than to champions.

As for the spoiler itself, I have played well into the game but have not yet qualified for it (no off-continent contacts). I am perfectly sure that there is no information I could gain by reading it, other than the progress of the other players. But then, this is a danger of any spoiler and the information will be almost as useful for me when I do qualify as would be is now.

There are, however, some interesting hints in the opening post which are clearly based on information gleaned from overseas. That is spoilerish too, even for those who have qualified for the thread.

It does seem to me that this was a minor transgression.

True, but if this little transgression is allowed who's to say another transgression is also considered minor and therefore should be allowed? It's like the whole play at least an hour. If one individual only plays 59 minutes and the GOTM Staff decide to let that slide, than what about the person who only played 58 minutes? Besides, how can you let the 59 slide but not the 58? And it continues on from there.

IMO I don't believe these minor transgressions should be allowed just due to this being the 1st GOTM. Rules were posted or could have been learned if people just took the time to read them.

Besides, if you allow them to slide this time will those players who made minor transgressions learn from their mistake? Possibly, but just as possibly they won't. A person tends to learn from their mistakes more when confronted with them, rather than allowing them to slide just this once.

1) Pre-knowledge of the map is a substantial advantage, IMO.
2) Aussie_Lurkers thread said it was a spoiler in the title and him posting that thread did not give him any advantage in his game.
3) Reading a spoiler thread before starting to play should have been an obvious no-no even if you hadn't read the rules, but it also stated that right in the thread in the first post.
4) How would it be fair to let his game count when the rest of us played without the advantage he did? This is a competition.

I'm in complete agreement with how the GOTM staff handled everything.

I've got a couple of noob questions before I start my first gotm. This is gonna sound pretty stupid, a lot of the things I say sound pretty stupid, but is there any way to change the default name your copy of civ gives to your leader? What I mean is, when I start a new game, I always change the leader's name, because the default it uses is the name of my pc, "JONNYSPC". Which leads me to my second question. I downloaded the start save, and that's when I realized that my leader's name would be "JONNYSPC". So I just left the game, no moves, no save, just exited to desktop. Is my downloading the start save again going to raise any flags as cheating, because I didn't see anything beyond what I saw in the starting screenie posted here. I hope you can take a noob at his word, it's true.

if this little transgression is allowed who's to say another transgression is also considered minor and therefore should be allowed?I did say that things like this should not be tolerated from people like you and I who have been around. We have no excuse for breaking the rules. As for who will decide, obviously the GOTM staff will. I am perfectly happy with whatever decision they make. As I said, I do think that newbs should be a cut a bit of slack in general - and especially in this particular game. JMO - and it would appear that I am in the minority around here. Oh well. Won't be the first time.

It's like the whole play at least an hour. If one individual only plays 59 minutes and the GOTM Staff decide to let that slide, than what about the person who only played 58 minutes? Besides, how can you let the 59 slide but not the 58? And it continues on from there.Hmmm. I thought that rule was a half-hour? In fact I'm sure it was. Did it change? Incidently, the Welcome thread says nothing about this. Nor does it say that there are any rules about opening spoilers. The same is true of the Civ3 Code of Conduct page. Nothing about session length and very little about spoilers.

As I said, there has been a lot of confusion around this game. It's perfectly normal and I have every confidence that our fine staff will eventually get things running as smoothly as they have for Civ3. In the meantime, let's keep things loose.

I believe the leader name can be changed, as I've seen different names in the submitted saves. As I don't have the game, you'll have to wait for someone else to tell you how to do it.

Your initial start file load and quit will not cause any problems as long as you didn't do anything..

Hmmm. I thought that rule was a half-hour? In fact I'm sure it was. Did it change?

Is it only 30 minutes? Didn't realize that as I'm also not entirely sure. I've been playing in hour intervals. One nice thing about CivIV is the alarm clock. Setting it for 60 minutes to make sure is nice.

Have to check on the time limit, as I've never been too sure on that. 30 minutes would be nicer as I don't always have an hour straight I can play.

@GOTM Staff: Can you clarify the time limit please.

I did say that things like this should not be tolerated from people like you and I who have been around. We have no excuse for breaking the rules.

Missed where you stated about us old CivIII C/GOTM players. My mistake.

There isn't a rule on session times, only guidance.

If you only play one or two turns per session then it's kinda difficult to distinguish your playing style from that of a serial reloader.

30-60 minutes means you play a reasonable number of turns per session, and we aren't bugging you about the number of sessions you have taken to complete the game.

This is my first ever GoTM and I'm really enjoying it so far... I hope to finish in another one or two sessions. Thanks to all who organised this! :goodjob:

My question is this: when all the games and scores are in will all of these be displayed on the GoTM site or just the highest scoring/fastest winners? As a noob I would be interested to see how my result compares to other people. :cool:

Regarding leader name, mentioned above, I didn't have any trouble with the default name of my PC, I found the GoTM automatically set me up as Julius Caesar. I presume this is normal?

The full gory details will be published in the same way as we do the Civ3 ones currently.

We'll also start a Global Rankings listing and a Pantheon. Go look at the GOTM web site and browse the menu items in the left column to see how we do it currently. If you would like anything more or different, shout!

Thanks! I must have missed the more detailed tables when I looked before. :blush: It all looks good and I hope that these competitions and discussions will help to raise the standard of everyone's game. I'm really happy to have found this forum, you guys are great! :goodjob: :D

OMG. My game crashed. Although I might be banned from submitting this GOTM, I just want to play by the rules. At least the rest of the game. Now my game crashed. So what save file should I load? My own save (CTRL+S -method) or autosave (it may be long time since autosave happened)?

1. You should set autosaves to happen every turn - it's a setting in your .ini file, I believe.

2. The autosave default is every 4 turns, so you should be able to find one not more than 4 turns old unless you've deliberately reduced the frequency.

3. Replay from the most recent of your manual save and the last autosave, trying as far as humanly possible to make the same moves and decisions as you did before.

4. If your most recent save is older than about three or four turns then you probably aren't going to be able to replay those turns faithfully. However, as you are playing for yourself in this game, I guess it's up to you how you proceed.

I can't even get started.

When I try to start from the download save game file, It get a windows critical error sound and a message that says "required to shut down in an unusual way."

Yes, I have patch 1.09

Civ4 GOTM
Please note that some people believe that reloading (in particular) isn't serious cheating. We, however, consider it to be and have zero tolerance on it. Please also be aware that if you do it, we can detect it, and we will act on it.

Question:

I've been playing my games in 1-2 hour blocks, sometimes even less. Will these frequent loads show up as cheating if I participate?

I can't even get started.

When I try to start from the download save game file, It get a windows critical error sound and a message that says "required to shut down in an unusual way."

Yes, I have patch 1.09
This sounds similar to the error reported by Dusty4prez here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3397952). I'm investigating. Are you running any mods?

Question:

I've been playing my games in 1-2 hour blocks, sometimes even less. Will these frequent loads show up as cheating if I participate?

1-2 hours sounds fine.

Use alt-D to change the player name.

Use alt-D to change the player name.

Thanks! :goodjob:

I can't wait to discuss the whole story of this GOTM :crazyeye: Why can't we open a thread to those who already finished the game? (If someone is going to cheat he can do that many ways...)

There isn't a rule on session times, only guidance.

If you only play one or two turns per session then it's kinda difficult to distinguish your playing style from that of a serial reloader.

30-60 minutes means you play a reasonable number of turns per session, and we aren't bugging you about the number of sessions you have taken to complete the game.

It would be interesting to see how the reload stats come out. I know that I had multiple restarts including a few for mistakes...(How about moving that praetorian to the forest next to your city instead of on your city!)...but never restarted due to missing out on a wonder by 1 turn (happened twice!) or because I lost 2 attacking praetorians to 2 defending archers in a barbarian city (great luck!).

The issue I am having (and this has caused me to only play on smaller maps) is that my computer will just freeze between turns. Usually turning down/off most of the settings solves this, but it was not for me. Actually I had issues with the game locking up right away until I turned down some of the effects. Its a shame that the saved game doesn't get applied to the settings I had my civ IV to run at. As I didn't realize to change many of them until after a lot of agony had past. 8) Including me rebooting and restarting twice to try to fix the problem before I realized it was the voice on tech discoveries that was causing me to freeze (playing with speakers off, heh).

I am new to the GOTM, although very excited to give it a try. I unfortunately cannot invest large blocks of time to play so I usually ply for an hour or so at a time. The was I am doing it is to load the original save and then when I get to the end of a turn I save over the original file. I then repeat this process each time I play. Is this an acceptable way of playing? Is there a better way?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I am new to the GOTM, although very excited to give it a try. I unfortunately cannot invest large blocks of time to play so I usually ply for an hour or so at a time. The was I am doing it is to load the original save and then when I get to the end of a turn I save over the original file. I then repeat this process each time I play. Is this an acceptable way of playing? Is there a better way?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Welcome! :D

Yes - that's fine. :)

It would be interesting to see how the reload stats come out. I know that I had multiple restarts including a few for mistakes...(How about moving that praetorian to the forest next to your city instead of on your city!)...but never restarted due to missing out on a wonder by 1 turn (happened twice!) or because I lost 2 attacking praetorians to 2 defending archers in a barbarian city (great luck!). Sorry - but reloading due to a mistake (moving to the wrong tile) is a no-no - you need to learn to be more careful. Reloading due to failing in attacking a city is definitely prohibited - barbarian or not.

1. You should set autosaves to happen every turn - it's a setting in your .ini file, I believe.



My apologies--I am new to GOTM and am also finding that I am less and less knowledgable about computers. What and where is the .ini file that one should change in order to have the autosave happen each turn?

Also, wanted to say thanks for all of the work that has gone into this. I'm really excited about my first game, especially now that work has slowed down (hopefully through the holidays). Again, thanks for all the effort.

Go to your civ 4 directory (C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Civilization 4 by default I think) there should be a shortcut to the ini file (usually in the My Games\Civilization 4 folder in Your Documents).

Thanks Robo Mike -- found it and was able to make the change (as well as fixing the annoying defaults for user name/profile name). In case anyone else had trouble finding it, the file is called at least on my computer CivilizationIV Configuration Settings, and is under 5KB. The relevant setting for autosave is "; Specify the number of turns between autoSaves. 0 means no autosave. AutoSaveInterval = 4" Change that 4 to a 1.

It is said that the save after the turn of victory should be submitted, but what save should I submit when i am defeated? I read the gotm website and still want to submit, even though i did really bad. I didn't save on the turn I was defeated (i was still hoping to hold on for few more turns), but i have savegame about five turns before that (and there is nothing i could do to change the outcome of the game).

If you are conquered then submit your last save. If you have no save for the defeat turn you can submit a retirement. Go to the C-IV submission page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ-gotm.php) and you will see your options explained there. If you still have questions, come back here or PM me.

Is re-naming the leader ok? What about the submitted save, should it be GOTMxxx.xxx or should it have my name in it?

Is re-naming the leader ok? What about the submitted save, should it be GOTMxxx.xxx or should it have my name in it?
Renaming the leader is fine - renaming the game (from the in-game menu) is not.

The save can have any name you like. It is renamed when uploaded.

Hello,

I am confused about the cheating rules, especially the reloading one.

You wrote: "Reloading an earlier save-file and replaying turns in a different way. The only time you may reload a save file is to start a new play session, and you must use the save file from the end of your previous session."

So what does this sentence mean? Let me clarify that the way events happen DO NOT CHANGE if I use the save file from the end of my previous session. AI will do same stuff next turn and I can try new moves without having to worry about what the AI will do, because AI just repeats history.
The AI is just not random if you load from a previous turn where you saved and do 3-4 moves that lead you to win 3-4 fights, then at the move that made you lose the previous time you tried it, you can try something else(i.e. not attack: in order to save your unit) and you would not have lost any units.
Is this cheating? I can't figure out from the way you worded yoru sentence.

Also, if this is considered cheating, how am I supposed to finish a long game without ever turning my PC off? I can't just play a nonstop 24 hour game to finish one map, I need to give breaks. I may not save in order to load later because it is considered cheating. How does the random seed generator work on this game? I observed that events repeat, especially battle results, if I do the same moves in different or same turns.

I did not know about these rules until recently, and I also have used WorldEditor to look up the map(or I could have played a test game to see where resources are). I just don't see how you promise to detect stuff like that and put in on the cheating list when everybody is doing it. You just can't determine whether someone used world editor or not, I think it should be allowed. But let me know how you reason your argument so I can understand as well.

World editor even lets you put some imba resource around your city that you could remove later when the game is about to end. How can you detect this sort of cheating?

Especially I am curious how you can determine whether someone used save/load cheating. I just see no way for doing so. I think it should be allowed. Again return your thoughts plz.

Alright, I guess I will play gotm5 if everything goes alright.

Ill take a stab!

Any time you reload to try something else you are cheating. If you reload (perhaps due to instability) and you change your moves as best as you can remember them your cheating.

In general saving and loading for purposes other then just to stop and resume your game is cheating.

The world editor to look around is cheating.

If you cannot play for more then a half hour at a time they recommend you dont play.

There is some information recorded in your save game file that makes it possible to spot clues such as the times you reloaded.

Is it possible to circumvent it? Maybe. In the end the value of participating in gotm for most of us isnt the rank but rather the common experience. So cheaters can take the rank but they cant take that.

Youll see spoilers etc and dozens of ways to cheat the system. You prolly wont get noticed if you dont post at a high ranking. So you might think "oh no how am i supposed to resist cheating if I will get some more rank and not get noticed!" I dont know because i dont have that trouble. I think we would officially be operating on two different planes. And maybe its easier for people that suck like meh! They arnt burdened with being number 1 or even caring who is number 1. Since im more interested in having the same surprise and experience that everyone else has and there wouldnt be anyway to get more of that by cheating. In fact there is less.

You can also keep retrying the gotm to see improvement. Many do that. But the good ones tell everyone which was really the first attempt. The bad ones dont even tell themselves which was the first attempt. Im sure some even pass off their later attempts as their first. But whats that really to you and me?

Hello,

I am confused about the cheating rules, especially the reloading one.

You wrote: "Reloading an earlier save-file and replaying turns in a different way. The only time you may reload a save file is to start a new play session, and you must use the save file from the end of your previous session."

...you can try something else(i.e. not attack: in order to save your unit) and you would not have lost any units.
Is this cheating? I can't figure out from the way you worded yoru sentence.

Yes, it's cheating. Reloading to change any event or action or decision in the light of previous experience is cheating.

Also, if this is considered cheating, how am I supposed to finish a long game without ever turning my PC off?You save your game at a point where you want a break. You reload that save and play forward. Simple, no?

I did not know about these rules until recently, and I also have used WorldEditor to look up the map(or I could have played a test game to see where resources are). I just don't see how you promise to detect stuff like that and put in on the cheating list when everybody is doing it. You just can't determine whether someone used world editor or not, I think it should be allowed. But let me know how you reason your argument so I can understand as well. We don't "promise" to spot all occurrences of cheating. The game as it is currently designed doesn't provide enough data to enable us to do that. We do try to use all the information that *is* provided in the game. But as jeremiahrounds has said, what's the point? No one gets prizes for high performances in GOTMs. The highest award on offer is the respect of other players for your achievements in trying the games, playing as well and honestly as you can, and improving your performance over time. You can't win and savour that award by cheating.

World editor even lets you put some imba resource around your city that you could remove later when the game is about to end. How can you detect this sort of cheating?
No comment. Note that we intend to reduce a lot of scope for such actions as soon as the game is patched to allow us to use the password protection properly.

Especially I am curious how you can determine whether someone used save/load cheating. I just see no way for doing so. I think it should be allowed. Again return your thoughts plz.If you think these things should be allowed then you are in a minority, and probably playing in the wrong competition.

Alright, I guess I will play gotm5 if everything goes alright.
We await your submission with interest.

Hi Jeremiahrounds, ty for input.

To be honest, call me a cheater wanna be or not, I like saving/reloading just to get most out of my own troops vs insane bonuses AI gets at higher difficulties. =D Did you ever try immortal or deity difficulties? Even at this gotm, the AI gets insane bonuses.


If I let them to fight on normal grounds, the AI just has numberwise 2x more(and higher tech) troops usually, and I would have to be an ubergosu/lucky civ4 player to beat the AI at higher difficulties.

I just can't believe how people explain on spoiler that they got wins around 1000AD on contender. I find it impossible without saving/reloading to fight vs an army that is 2x yours because of the insane bonuses AI has. It is not like I can save my entire army; I do lose significant amount of troops even with save/reloading, but not as much.

I will definitely try the bonus difficulty next time, because having a good, fast start with 2 bases is definitely more important than the %15 score reduction penalty.

Don't tell me Isabella has no copper/iron at the start and that a good civ4 can steal copper/marble from Greece. According to the rules, you are not supposed to know what resources they have. I can't plan on making 3 galleys with 6 axeman to raze Isabella if I dunno what she got. She might as well get copper and more axeman by the time I arrive there. If I am not save/reloading and she has more axeman, it means I lose due to numbers.

They just got 2x your troops and out produce you. Even with higher tech troops if you are lucky to capture their resources, they still got insane numbers. If you let the fights happen randomly where your best troops die quickly(City Raider or Combat 3-4 promoted), your chances are greatly lower if not zero.

I know I am not the best strategist around and definitely a newbie(maybe mediocre) Civ4 player, but I would like to optimize my army to reduce all possible causalities. Does that mean I never lose troops? No, I will lose some troops to capture a city, but I wanna keep most my army alive, esp the higher promoted ones, to be able to attack next city.

Alternatively, I could stack 10-15 catas and colleteral damage everything to low hp, but for that I would have to wait next gotm =D

And yea, next time I am playing with the starting bonuses. The extra settler and archer are just such big advantages early game that %15 score reduction does not matter at all. The should do it like %50 score reduction.

And if you can tell me how I can see at which times I uploaded my replay, I would be grateful. Which program to use to edit my save files to see at which times I reloaded?

But again a sophisticated cheater can always play the game on 2 different machines, test save/reloading rounds on one machine and play fair on the other and submit the fair play replay to trick the rules. Too bad I have one machine at home :D

Thanks again, hf at next gotm :D

""World editor even lets you put some imba resource around your city that you could remove later when the game is about to end. How can you detect this sort of cheating?

No comment. Note that we intend to reduce a lot of scope for such actions as soon as the game is patched to allow us to use the password protection properly.""

Ty AlanH for the information. I see 10 different ways for cheating until firaxis puts some password protection like you said. I will, however, remain a strong supporter for save/reloading. That is the most innocent way of cheating in my honest opinion. The AI has just too many imba production bonuses even with save/reloading.

But as far as Gotm goes, I understand your rules and will play by the rules next time :D Gotm is cool, I learned a lot from the spoilers.

Bye

The AI has just too many imba production bonuses even with save/reloading.

The reason the AI has bonuses at higher difficulty levels is because people find it too easy to beat, otherwise, so the game is more fun with higher handicaps. Cheating by reloading is counterproductive; that just means that you have to give the AI even larger bonuses to make the game challenging.

If you're one who finds the game sufficiently challenging at lower difficulty levels, why play at a higher level at all?

"To be honest, call me a cheater wanna be or not, I like saving/reloading just to get most out of my own troops vs insane bonuses AI gets at higher difficulties. =D Did you ever try immortal or deity difficulties? Even at this gotm, the AI gets insane bonuses."

Oh everything i said was in the context of GoTM. I wouldnt judge your nonGotm doings, your general meanderings, your choice of fun or your method of learning the game. Reload all you want! However in regards to gotm i had read these answers before. Fortunatly the staff here read the forums and reply alot so you have your official answer too =)

Weighing in late here:

After playing through a few Gotm's it seems obvious when a person has used some cheating maneuevers as opposed to just being fortuitous. It's like looking a Barry Bond's head four years ago. Period.

If one is really good at looking at games, it should be easy to spot suspicious activities (but possibly difficult to prove).

Making the "best possible move" in a new game onsight each and every turn for 20 or so in a row would have even Mr Spock's eyebrows raised. People with this type of luck need be at a roulette wheel, and not a Civ game.

I plan on playing through my Gotm6 a few times after learning what I learned on the first get go to see if I can honestly maximize the game, but would only submit my first highly flawed result. In the climbing world, the best stories and tales are those epics that did not go as originally planned.

When everything goes as expected, the aftermath stories tend to be dull and lifeless.




Anyway, to me, going for the fastest victory is too similar to seeing who can orgasm the fastest.

Like a good book, wine, trip or CIV game, it's the journey that matters most, not the destination.

I have a question in regards to submiting a game. How can I identify that I have played the Adventurer Save when submiting a save? And yes, this is my first time actualy finishing a GOTM and submiting it :).

Also, where in the world do I find the replay file in my Civ4 directory? :confused:.

I have a question in regards to submiting a game. How can I identify that I have played the Adventurer Save when submiting a save? And yes, this is my first time actualy finishing a GOTM and submiting it :).
I think it is worked out automaticly from the save file. You do not need to identify it on the submition form.
Also, where in the world do I find the replay file in my Civ4 directory? :confused:.
C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR_NAME\My Documents\My Games\Civilization 4\Replays or some such.

Thanks, I just submited my first ever GOTM sumition. Though I did not do too well on the game itself :(. (But I'll wait untill the end-game spoiler for GOTM6 comes up)

Hi everyone,

I would like to enter the next GOTM, and also try out the old ones. I have a couple of questions though:

1. Where are the files to play them? I can't seem to find the starting saved games posted anywhere.

2. What is the Adventurer Class and Challenger Class thing? I have no idea what that is or if i have to do something differently.

3. Do I just play the game according to the set rules for that game and post the replay when I either win or lose?

4. Should I not look at the spoiler threads until I'm finished with my game?

Hi everyone,

I would like to enter the next GOTM, and also try out the old ones. I have a couple of questions though:

Welcome. There's an intro page for people starting to play GOTMs here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/1st_visit.php)

1. Where are the files to play them? I can't seem to find the starting saved games posted anywhere.
Go to the GOTM web site (gotm.civfanatics.net). The right hand column includes the link to the current game page plus a menu and buttons to reach the previous game release pages and results. Game release pages contain download links fo rthe start files.

2. What is the Adventurer Class and Challenger Class thing? I have no idea what that is or if i have to do something differently.
This thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157103) describes the three classes. When you have decided which class to play at, choose the appropriate file to download from the game release page.
3. Do I just play the game according to the set rules for that game and post the replay when I either win or lose?You play the game according to the GOTM competiton rules - no reloads etc. When you have won, lost or retired you submit your saved game and replay files using the submission page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ-gotm.php).

4. Should I not look at the spoiler threads until I'm finished with my game?There are usually two spoiler threads for C-IV GOTMs. The first, mid-game spoiler opens five or six days after the game starts, and the first post tells you what conditions you need to fulfil to read or post in it. The final spoiler is the end of game one, and you must have completed the game before reading or posting there.

Thanks for your help. I think I know everything I need to know now.

I cant wait to join one of these!!!

when will we be allowed to use warlord to play gotm?

i might be the only unfortunate soul who couldn't see forest/jungle on the map ever after the fivth gotm4. i haven't played civ4 since then. now i bought the warlord and everything is working. but... i find i am not allowed to use warlord to play gotm :p

September 15th

game session question:
my laptop is not so fasion, and my 4otm9 crash 2 times in 15 mins, if I uninstall civ4 from laptop and reinstall it on my "desk-top", maybe I will go farther.
but, when I read the rule, I want to clarify the session length. previously I think it's not a 10 hours game that I can start 10 sessions, it's that each session interval will more than 1 hour, so how about this kind of crash scene? abandon or still valid to earn 10-20/100 points?
thanks.

There is no *rule* about session length for GOTMs - maybe you are thinking of the Hall of Fame rules. We judge each entry on what we see in the save. Play the game honestly and fairly, and without reloading to change events, and you'll be fine.

Submissions due by September 1, 2006.
PLEASE NOTE THE DATE.


Are games due before the calendar changes to the due date? If entries are due by midnight as the date in question starts, what time zone is used as the cutoff point?

I assume I missed the deadline of September 1st as of midnight last night, but am hoping I mis-understand the submit date procedures......:)

The deadline is described on the submission page, and there's a time to go provided on that page for each active game as well.

Submissions normally close a month after the game is released, at midnight. Check the game release page or the right hand menu for the deadline. Midnight is defined east of the International Date Line (GMT-11). The approximate time remaining for each open game is shown for each game below.

We are currently accepting submissions for C-IV GOTM 09 ( 14 hours) and C-IV GOTM 10 (30 days 14 hours)



What more would you have me do? :hmm:

The deadline is described on the submission page, and there's a time to go provided on that page for each active game as well.



What more would you have me do? :hmm:



Apologies that I did not check the submission pages itself, but only the save game pages. Thanks for the quick and humorous reply! :)


Now that you mention it, I have here a list:


Just kidding! :mischief:

I've thanked you before and will do so again gladly, as well as the rest of the staff, for all the great stuff you provide for schlubs like me. Thank you!

I did not know where to put it...
But is it possible to have a GoTM with lower map settings for a change? I mean small maps tops. I never reallky get to participate because

1) Larger maps kill me with all that tedious work you have to do all way through.
2) They won't run stable on my system anyways

I have an ethics question. I have a city thats a monster in production, science, and Great people. Its a city you really dont want to lose as it will mean the game.

I get surprise attacked and the enemy lands within 2 tiles of this city. I swith to nationhood and draft on the next turn and i was allready in the civic where you could finish prodution with money, so I bought a cat. Now at this point, I save the game with the intention of reloading if I lose the city and not submitting the game...which is fine as I just want to play.

I cat the enemy stack and the city barely holds. Can I still submit?

If that was the only attempt you made to hold the city - you didn't try other options and lose - then sure, carry on. If you reloaded that save and tried different tactics to find one that worked - then no. Reloading is illegal.

You can save at any time as long as you just play on and don't replay different options from that save.

So for example you save (with the same intention), then quit, go to the shop, buy some beer, reload and hope wouldn't be so clever, would it?

By the way, even if you lose that city, I would just try to take it back if I were you (unless they raze it of course). That would give much more satisfaction than reloading and trying to cheat to save the city - since in that case you already know you lost and cheated yourself (not us, or the game). if you see what I mean. Maybe that loss is not that harsh.

I'm not sure what you are saying ...

If you save, quit, go for a beer, return, load up and play on then there's no problem.

If you load up, play on, decide you didn't like the outcome, go back, reload and try another tactic then you are cheating and you must not submit.

The rule is really very simple. You must never make any move or decision with prior knowledge of its outcome.

I mean it's very suspicious to save and reload right before a sharp fight... especially if you're doing it several times. No? :P

THough I'm that kind of coward who often does so. If I get to a tough point, I often get away for a while and think about the position... even if there's only pray left for me. That's some kind of blocking. Used to happen in chess competitions too. The best is when you move and move fast and don't think. Then problem arrives and you start thinking too late and bury yourself for 15 mins... of course to no avail, but you could hurt yourself a bit at least -- if you know the feeling.

I mean it's very suspicious to save and reload right before a sharp fight... especially if you're doing it several times. No? :P

I often save before a sharp fight, even though I have no intention of reloading. I think it's psychological. Partly the saving gives me a moment to think 'do I really want to do this?' and partly it's a habit-hangover from my days before I started playing GOTMs, when I would save before a fight in case I wanted to reload. And partly, for some strange reason, the oncoming fight reminds me to make one of the periodic saves that I like to do in case I want to later retrieve screenshots or other info from them for my write-ups.

I very much doubt that the final savegame you submit contains any details of the precisely when the sharp fights had occurred, so I don't think it would look suspicious. However, I don't really like speculating on what would and wouldn't look suspicious, since I'd guess any information that became publically available through such speculation would make it easier for anyone who did want to cheat, so I'll say no more on that.

Question for Ainwood/AlanH:

Is it considered acceptable to discuss the details of your GOTM in private messages with other people, assuming you've checked in the submission list that the person you're talking to has actually submitted their game?

Sounds OK to me as long as your game information doesn't spread to the still-playing community.

To ainwood and AlanH:

Your Mar 2 2006 posts have confused me: ainwood says “Renaming the leader is fine - renaming the game (from the in-game menu) is not.”

AlanH says “The save can have any name you like. It is renamed when uploaded.”

The save default name is just the leader name and the date, so I renamed my save files to include “GOTM 10” in the save name, just to keep that straight in my own save files. I assume that this (renaming the save file) is different from “renaming the game”?

Just want to stay on the straight and narrow.

Also, it seemed that a few do’s and don’t appear in this thread that should migrate to the general info and rules pages (I can go back and find them later if that is useful). I thought I had carefully read the intro and rules pages, and some of this thread’s do or don’t info still came as a surprise.

da_Vinci

To ainwood and AlanH:

Your Mar 2 2006 posts have confused me: ainwood says “Renaming the leader is fine - renaming the game (from the in-game menu) is not.”

AlanH says “The save can have any name you like. It is renamed when uploaded.”

The save default name is just the leader name and the date, so I renamed my save files to include “GOTM 10” in the save name, just to keep that straight in my own save files. I assume that this (renaming the save file) is different from “renaming the game”?
The full quote, as you state, is “renaming the game (from the in-game menu)”. Of course that's not the same as renaming the file.

Also, it seemed that a few do’s and don’t appear in this thread that should migrate to the general info and rules pages (I can go back and find them later if that is useful). I thought I had carefully read the intro and rules pages, and some of this thread’s do or don’t info still came as a surprise.
Please do find them. We try to keep the rules simple, as past ecxperience indicates that most people won't read anything that's long and complicated. If we've left anything critical out, please tell us.

To AlanH,

The new info not in the rules was the advice (but perhaps not requirement) to autosave every turn, and the suggestion to play at least 30 (recommended 60?) minutes per session (so you don’t look like a “serial reloader”). Since these points came up in the context of discussions of actual or perceived cheating, they seemed like they might be pretty important issues. But perhaps they are suggestions rather than rules and don’t reach the critical threshold.

da_Vinci

Yes, they are recommendations, not rules.

If your computer never crashes you don't need autosaves at all. Session times are far too dependent on your speed of play to be able to be generalised. Some players will play one turn in an hour. Others will play a complete game in that time.

I only just found the time to play this game. With Civ 3 I found that a great way to learn about the game was loading an old GOTM, play it for a while (until 1000BC or 1000AD) and then see how some high-scorers did. At the time some of them would post a detailed description of their actions. That was very, very enlightening.

So the big question is: is something like that to be found for Civ IV? Is there a place where people post their GOTM journals? It used to exist for Civ 3.

Even in Civ 3 I thought a 'save replay' feature would have been fantastic, disappointed they didn't think of that for Civ IV. That would save a lot of work for those who'd like to 'report' their games.

Mark

@Tesuji: Funny you should mention that. I had been meaning to provide a link to the Civ4Replay file for each submission in the Results page, in the same way as the final Civ4SavedGame file. I've now added that feature, linked to the Victory status for each entry, and I just need to work out what you can do with the files if you download them :hmm:

So Civ IV does have a replay feature? Is it for debugging purposes for Firaxis only? I haven't been able to figure out what to do with this file. Let me know when you find out please, that would be so cool.

Civ4 allows you to replay any game you have completed. Go the the Hall of Fame from the main menu and click the button at the left of the game you want to view.

It also allows you to view other people's games using their Civ4Replay files, now available for download from the GOTM Results pages. Here are the hoops you jump through to make this possible:

1. Download the .Civ4Replay file for game you want to see replayed, and put it in your \My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization IV\Replays\ folder. (~/Documents/Civilization IV/Replays/ on a Mac).

2. Run Civ4 and select "Hall of Fame" in the main menu.

3. If all is well then you will see that file listed in the displayed table.

4. Click the button on the left to see a replay, complete with minimap and histograph and key events, similar to the one in Civ3. You can Run or Step the replay to see what happened in the game.

If the file doesn't show up in the list then it means it was played with a HoF Mod, or a different version of the HoF Mod from the one you have loaded. This is where it gets more tricky ...

If the game was played with no mods, but you have a mod loaded, then go back to the main menu, click Advanced, and select "Load a Mod".
Select "None" in the next screen, and OK. Civ4 will tell you it has to restart to load the mod "None". Let it do so, and you should then see the file in the Hall of Fame list.

If the game was played with a mod then the screen will only show the file if you have a mod with the same name already loaded. This will happen with some of the GOTM 10 and WOTM 01 submissions when they are released, and with all future submissions, as they are played with versions of the HoF Mod. In order to see the Replay file in your Hall of Fame listing you will have to load up the same mod that it was played with - the mod name must be identical. You can find that information on the game release page on the GOTM web site, or in the Saves Available post for the game.

If you want to see a replay that was created using a mod on a different OS from yours (Mac/Windows) you can't load up the actual mod that was used, as the mods are not compatible across-platforms. So you will need to fool the game software by loading a copy of a HOF Mod for your OS that has been *renamed* to have the same name as the HoF Mod the game was actually played with. Here are the steps:

1. Make a copy of an existing HoF Mod folder for your OS in the Mods folder in your Civ4 application folder.

2. Rename the folder to be the same name as the mod the game was played with. You can find this on the appropriate game Release page.

3. Rename the xxxx.ini file inside that folder to have the same mod name with a '.ini' extension.

4. Use Load a Mod to load up the newly named mod, and you should now see the Replay file you wanted to view.

Well, you did ask!!!

Or you could just double-click the replay file in windows. It messes with game name setting in your ini file, but it seems like a lot less work... :mischief:

Sorry Alan, I know you have had less time to mess with civ4. It is amazing what trivia you discover over the course of a year... :crazyeye:

Ah, I see. It just replays the main events of the game as it used to do at the end of the game. What I had hoped for was an action-for-action replay so I could follow exactly what a player was doing. I just don't understand nobody at Firaxis thought of such a feature.

Aren't there people who posted a log of their game? They used to be there in Civ 3 GOTMs.

Mark

I assume you've found the spoiler threads?

Nobody ever posted all the details of all their moves in Civ3 GOTMs. You may be thinking of the QSC logs, which were more detailed logs of the first 80 turns, but you wouldn't have been able to use those logs to replicate even those turns exactly.

There's now an Autolog facility in the HoF Mod which records more than the built-in even log, and if players choose to publish those you may get more details, but still nothing like enough to replicate a previously-played game.

Or you could just double-click the replay file in windows. It messes with game name setting in your ini file, but it seems like a lot less work... :mischief:

Sorry Alan, I know you have had less time to mess with civ4. It is amazing what trivia you discover over the course of a year... :crazyeye:

Even if I did have time, I wouldn't have known about this facility, since it isn't an option on the Mac version.

Downloaded HOF 2.08.001 Mod and wotm03
Launched HOF 2.08.001 (Civ4screenshot 004 attached)
Loaded civ4wotmadventurer03 (Civscreenshot 005 attached)
Got following message:"The save file you have selected is protected to ensure that the assets in your mods folder have not been changed" (Civscreenshot 006 attached)

What did I wrong?142635

142636

142637

it seems the most common problem is with CivScale. Do you have BlueMarble installed for your Warlords installation?

CivScale modifies the xml files associated with Civ, so if you've used it, you'll need to tell it to reset all the values to default in order to play.

Thanks to Thrallia

I did use Civscale and Blue Marble with Civ III not with Civ4, to be sure I re-installed warlords from scratch but I am still unable to start wotm03 or any other gotm, maybe my firewall interferes?

A firewall would have no effect. This isn't a network game.

Civ3 doesn't have BlueMarble or CivScale as far as I know.

I did use Civscale and Blue Marble with Civ III not with Civ4...
I guess you mean you used them with Civ4, not with Warlords? If so then that could cause the problem. Warlords uses the assets from Civ4 and has new files for the differences between Civ4 and Warlords. Changing the Civ4 assets (I.e. using Civscale) will most likely result in that error message within Warlords.

You are right Dianthus it was Civ4 so I re-installed all from scratch with the patches and it still didn't work. http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/wallbash.gif
:wallbash:

So I closed my internet connection and shut down the firewall (anti-hacker from Kasperski Labs) and IT WORKED http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/avatar.gif
:dance:

just got time to start my WTOM3. started the game and found i didn't have the HOF2.08 yet. (this is gonna be my third warlord game since i really don't have any time to play non-gotm game. therefore i'm very inexperienced about all those patches). download the newest HOF and started the game again. and got: mods\hof-2.08.001] is an invalid mod directory, ignoring.
i clicked OK and my screen turned blue and nothing happened after that...


then i found that now the HOF mod is 2.08.002 instead of 001. i tried one thing - when installing the hof2.08.002, i installed it into 2.08.001 directory. but it didn't work either. i guess i have to download the 2.08.001 mod now. but i cannot find it. can anyone out there help me?

The newest HOF Mod for Warlords is version 2.08.002, which was released two weeks after WOTM 3 started. You need to download 2.08.001, linked from the WOTM3 Release page, or the Saves Available page.

[cross posted with everyone], But my statement stands. It's linked from both main pages relating to WOTM 03

i guess i have to download the 2.08.001 mod now. but i cannot find it. can anyone out there help me?
The previous version, 2.08.001, is still available on the HOF mod page. See http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php#warlords_download and just look down a little bit!

downloaded it. got this message:
Microsoft visual c++ runtime library (the title bar)
program:..mes\sid meier's civilization4\warlords\civ4warlords.exe
this application has requested the runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. please contact the application's support team for more information.


after i got warlord, i've only played two games, wotm1 and wotm2. i never modified anything... why am i getting this message?
(I did delete the 2.08.002 folder in case it interferes)

that error message means your computer ran out of memory, try lowering your graphics settings, that usually does away with that error message.

downloaded it. got this message:
Microsoft visual c++ runtime library (the title bar)
program:..mes\sid meier's civilization4\warlords\civ4warlords.exe
this application has requested the runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. please contact the application's support team for more information.

I think you'll get this message if you try to run the HOF mod and you don't have the 2.08 patch installed.

This seems like a lot of fun and a great learning tool. I'm looking forward to playing along. :)

I read through this entire thread and hopefully know what's what now. It is still a bit confusing though which threads are what. I'm sure it all makes perfect sense though once one is used to the naming conventions. GOTM must be Game of the Month but WOTM? Guessing the Warlords version? They all have numbers - not sure why but I'd have expected month names. At least its obvious which are the current ones since they are stickies. :)

I'm barely a noble level player so I am sure to lose gloriously (and early) for a long time but think that by losing and then reading the good players I can improve my game. Someday I'm going to grow up to be a Prince(ss) level player! ;)

Guess this post is somewhat spam-ish; mainly saying hello and that I very much appreciate this being here as I think it will add a lot to my enjoyment of the game.

This seems like a lot of fun and a great learning tool. I'm looking forward to playing along. :)

I read through this entire thread and hopefully know what's what now. It is still a bit confusing though which threads are what. I'm sure it all makes perfect sense though once one is used to the naming conventions. GOTM must be Game of the Month but WOTM? Guessing the Warlords version?


Yes, WOTM is the warlords of the month, a game that must be played in warlords. GOTM must be played in vanilla civ4.


They all have numbers - not sure why but I'd have expected month names.

They are numbered from the beginning. So if now is played GOTM 15 that means that the GOTM for civ 4 started 15 months ago. It is just to distinguish different games.


I'm barely a noble level player so I am sure to lose gloriously (and early) for a long time but think that by losing and then reading the good players I can improve my game. Someday I'm going to grow up to be a Prince(ss) level player! ;)


You can start with the adventure games. They will give you a starting bonus like some archers, worker and techs, which will help you early in the game. You can then discuss your strategies in the spoiler threads and learn from other players, while they will learn from you. Soon you will be empress :king:
[/quote]

And welcome to GOTM

Hi All,

I have recently finished GOTM13. Now in the submission page i have problems with the first question already. :) (Have you played GOTM before?) :D

Actually I have submitted some GOTM, but it was sometime when Civ3 was new, so years ago. Does it count, or is the question just for Civ4?

I hope somebody can answer to this very serious problem. ;) Sorry if it is already answered somewhere, but unfortunately I have little time to read the forums. And honestly I can't think that anyone else had came up with such a stupid question before. :crazyeye:

Btw, it is great to see that CivFanatics is up and running after such a long time. And - since I had no high hopes with 3d so it was a surprise to me, but... CIV4 _is_ FANTASTIC, too! And I'm start to GOTM-ing again! Beware, mortals! :lol:

Hi All,

I have recently finished GOTM13. Now in the submission page i have problems with the first question already. :) (Have you played GOTM before?) :D

Actually I have submitted some GOTM, but it was sometime when Civ3 was new, so years ago. Does it count, or is the question just for Civ4?

I hope somebody can answer to this very serious problem. ;)


That question is only an attempt to provide a simple check that you know who you are :p If you answer it incorrectly you'll just get a prompt to check your spelling. It's no big deal.

You are a previous player. Civ3 ... Civ4 ... Conquests ... PtW ... vanilla ... Warlords ... it's all in the same database. If you've ever submitted a G/C/WOTM then you've played before. I have you down for GOTM 9 - 12, one loss, three victories, back in the day.

Being new to the GotM fold, Alan, I am severely impressed with that level of recordkeeping over such a span of years. ;)

As Alan says, he is a PHP monkey. Man, can he type!

Thanks Alan. It's very nice, that you still "take care" of those old results. I'll go and submit the fifth one! :)

Stupid question:

I've never saved a game after it was over. Do I need to do anything special? Will I only be able to save it if I click "Just one more turn... (keep playing)," or does that not matter?

Stupid question:

I've never saved a game after it was over. Do I need to do anything special? Will I only be able to save it if I click "Just one more turn... (keep playing)," or does that not matter?

Not so stupid question at all (I think the submit page is a little bit vague, at least for us "foreigners"). You should select "Just one more turn..." and then save at earliest opportunity. As a sanity check you can look at the year in the replay file name: it should match the year in the game save file name.

Thanks kindly, Erkon. (Sadly, I think I'm not far from the end of my first attempt at one of these _otM.)

Not so stupid question at all (I think the submit page is a little bit vague, at least for us "foreigners"). You should select "Just one more turn..." and then save at earliest opportunity. As a sanity check you can look at the year in the replay file name: it should match the year in the game save file name.

By all means, suggest a more explicit way to express this and I'll replace the instructions. I don't think I've changed the words much since they were first adapted from the Civ3 version.

This is a bit confusing to me as well. I won a game at the beginning of a turn - by selecting play one more turn I get put into the SAME turn in which I won. I saved there which made the most sense to me but from the instructions it seems we need to play an extra turn then save? Instructions say after but from above posts that doesn't seem correct - above seems to be what I'd intuitively do which is send same turn. I don't want to submit incorrectly so waiting to make sure. Hopefully the question makes sense it is a bit confusing.

If looking for another way to word it (assuming you DO want the same turn) what Erkon said "select "Just one more turn..." and then save at earliest opportunity" makes more sense to me. Maybe for different victory conditions it is different though? I'm not sure if all victories happen at start of turns.

Edit: The notes at the bottom of the page explain it well. It is just the word "after" in the initial instructions that is confusing I think.

Sorry I've confused you. I guess I really ought to play this game through sometime and see what a victory looks like :rolleyes:

It is entirely possible that different victories are declared at different points in the final turns. I *think* the key clue is that you have a Replay file for the game, since this is only created when you complete the game. The other obvious symptom of 'game over' is if you have seen the victory ceremony. There is no problem with submitting a *later* save, as the system will extract the correct date.

If you have a Replay file for the game then please submit the save you have. If the result in your feedback after the submission looks wrong, then send me a PM to tell me what it should have been and I'll investigate.

the victory is declared at the beginning of the turn after it is achieved, thus, when you click 'just one more turn' it will move to the turn that victory was declared. At that point, you save your game and submit that save :)

That's been my experience every time I've won, but take that with a grain of salt...I've only submitted 3 victories I'm aware of :sad:

dang...I thought I would submit GOTM13 in time :( I apparently just missed it...too bad, I retired 3 days ago and never had time to submit it

This is a bit confusing to me as well. I won a game at the beginning of a turn - by selecting play one more turn I get put into the SAME turn in which I won. I saved there which made the most sense to me but from the instructions it seems we need to play an extra turn then save? Instructions say after but from above posts that doesn't seem correct - above seems to be what I'd intuitively do which is send same turn. I don't want to submit incorrectly so waiting to make sure. Hopefully the question makes sense it is a bit confusing.

If looking for another way to word it (assuming you DO want the same turn) what Erkon said "select "Just one more turn..." and then save at earliest opportunity" makes more sense to me. Maybe for different victory conditions it is different though? I'm not sure if all victories happen at start of turns.

Edit: The notes at the bottom of the page explain it well. It is just the word "after" in the initial instructions that is confusing I think.


The confusing thing is the way