I'm not quite sure how to engage / start / initiate a mutual defense treaty - the option in the trading screen is RED.

what do i have to do to access that as a trading option?

i know, i'm a Civ IV idiot.

if a diplomatic option is red simply means that the faction doesnt like you enough to allow that option. if you want that treaty so badly you have work on your charisma. ;-)

really?

very surprising given how "nice" i've been... oh well, if they don't want to be "nice", we may have to do this the "hard" way :)

thanks