New Balance v1.3a
14 May 06
by Peter Shafer
Works with Civ IV v1.61 Patch

LAST UPDATE to this MOD ever- switching over to WARLORDS support and it'll be in a new thread.

the readme:

New Balance v1.4
20 Jul 06
by Peter Shafer
Works with Civ IV v1.61 Patch

While MOST changes in this mod are not based on other people's work, a few changes are inspired by the work of others, and are noted when they are substantial, use some of their material, or were truly original and worth "stealing!" Thanks go out to those.

PROMOTION changes used a few artworks from Zuul's mod:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=142086&highlight=promotions

How to use:
UNZIP to the civ4\mods\ folder like any other mod. So you should have a "New Balance" folder right under your MODS folder in your main CIV directory.

You WILL NOT BE ABLE to replace the old mod with this one mid-game! WARNING! It WILL CRASH! Back up your old version if you're mid game!

What this mod is about:
I'm not trying to change CIV in any major ways but wanted a few things to be better...

1: This mod makes the NORMAL game about 25%-40% longer. What do I mean by longer? I mean that TECHNOLOGIES drive the pace of the game- they come slower. There are about 25% more turns, so when playing it feels like you stay in each era a little longer. This means you get to mess with units a bit more before the next tech makes them obsolete. Some other things are slowed down a little too for balance reasons: city growth, etc... but in a proportional way that is better than the vanilla EPIC game included in the game.

You'll see more units in the game and have a livlier classical/medieval/gunpowder age experience.

2: The difficulty levels of NOBLE and PRINCE are changed. NOBLE is almost 100% equal now, it is truly you vs. the AI evenly. Prince ups the AI's ability in a few stats- upkeep, war morale, etc...

Based on (Select when playing):
"NEW BALANCE" SPEED (works with EPIC too- but those games are ridiculously long now)
NOBLE/PRINCE (although other levels are OK too!)

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v1.4
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Added "NEW BALANCE" gamespeed to selection menu and returned "Normal" to truly normal speeds. Select NEW BALANCE in the gamespeed option to activate the game pacing changes for this mod!

Archer units gained +20% and +10% (when mounted) versus Axemen when attacking. The AXEMAN unit has always made swordsmen worthless, now there is a further reason why you might choose swords men.

Removed Fort Garrison MOD changes. This only made for a tempting cheese tactic versus the AI. AI's don't use forts... sorry, but good bye.

Spy missions are cheaper except the sabotage one (ruining what a city is building) as that mission is powerful.

Increased graphic size of Spies, CA, BB, Workers slightly.

Decreased WORKER figures from 2 to 1.

Decreased MG figures from 3 to 2.

Added first strike chance to Explorers and Scouts (they're sort of ambushy units).



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v1.3a minor changes/fixes
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Fix: Got the tech splash screen working again

Removed mod portion that relaunched jet patrols, as the patch fixes this.

HORSE based units significantly better at WITHDRAWING: IMO, Horses are too unimportant in the game. Historically, they were hugely important additions to a civilization's repertoire of war weapons... without them... things were tough. So I beefed up the horse units a bit.


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v1.3 Additions/Changes
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GALLEY now costs 25 (was 30). The economy needs them cheaper for them to appear in the right numbers, IMO.

EXPLORER has a combat value of 5 now (was 4).


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v1.2 Additions/Changes:
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Reworked ENTIRE mod based on the NEW FILES from the 1.61 patch! (Grrrr... took forever!)

Free Speech: +1$ in towns, not +2$.

MISSIONARY differences removed:
I'm STILL unhappy about how religion plays out in the game and STILL thinking about what to do about it. In the meantime, it's pretty much Vanilla CIV style.

GALLEY cost: 30

BANK provides 40% commerce bonus (was 50%).

Reworked Free Speech/U. Suffrage:
Less WW with Suffrage, more with free speech. I STILL think Universal Suffrage contributes to WW becaus, let's face it, women are a bit more anti-violence than men at least in organized ways... history has borne this out.

FORT GARRISON III moved earlier to Chemistry.

--
v1.1 Additions/Changes:
--

Reworked dates to better match technology.

Scaled back to 33% the bonus Industrial gets for making wonders.

FORGE costs 100 not 120

ALL SWORD UNITS gain 25% DEFENSIVE bonus vs. ARCHER (not longbows and x-bows, though).

CARRIERS carry 4 not 3 units, are slightly cheaper (the real cost is the planes).

KNIGHTS/MACEMEN moved to slightly different research track.

SUBMARINES gain 25% attack versus TRANSPORTS. Slightly cheaper too.

BATTLESHIPS slightly more costly.

UNITED NATIONS with FISSION (So a little earlier)

Radio Towers with RADIO

INTERNET with MASS MEDIA

OIL is more clumpy in distribution:
A few nations now will tend to control it- and it's easier to take it militarily- makes it more strategic I think.

NAVY SEAL can board SUBMARINES.

ADDED 2 PROMOTIONS:
DESERT COMBAT and ARCTIC COMBAT: +25% defense in terrains, plus double movement in those terrains. Requires Combat I first.

Updated artwork of FORT GARRISONS with stuff from Zuul.

U.S.A flag changed to Betsey Ross style.


--
OLDER CHANGES:
--

CLEAR JUNGLE with BIOLOGY (instead of being able to do this right away!)
Because jungles are FIERCE scary DANGEROUS places, damnit! It was medicine that allowed the panama canal clearing of jungle, no amount of slaves dieing in great numbers could do it! So jungles stay on the map until the 1800's or so... nice.

Note that you CAN build ROADS, CAMPS and PLANTATIONS and MINES and such in JUNGLE with GUNPOWDER which is earlier than MEDICINE. This is to help get those trade items (Ivory and Bananas) into the game a little earlier than medicine, and to simulate that Conquistadors used the natives to do the work by dominating with guns and forcing them into slavery.

COTTAGES built with MONARCHY (was Pottery):
The economy heats up too fast too early otherwise. I figure you need a slighty betetr knowledge of civics before you have suburbs. This change is hard to deal with if you're used to having loads of $$ in the game- you will need to balance your economy much more carefully now.

FISSION reveals URANIUM (was physics):
Because the stupid AI will trade Uranium and mine it before it can USE it! -sigh- So that's fixed. now the AI will have it when it wants to build bombs and stuff.

WINERIES with POTTERY:
Why? Well, duh!

SPY & SCOTLAND YARD available with NATIONALISM:
Why? Because waiting until COMMUNISM SUCKS.... and besides the plans for textile mills were stolen by "spies" in real life back in the 1700's or so... I figure an earlier tech should get you spies.

SCOTLAND YARD and spies are cheaper:
Spies need to be earlier in the game...

SPY missions are cheaper in general...

MAP TRADING with ASTRONOMY not with paper:
Because I want larger black spots on the map a little longer... give my sailing ships something to DO!

TECH TRADING with GUILDS not with Alphabet:
I think this makes sense to some degreee, plus tech whoring early in the game can ruin it.

GREAT LIBRARY with ALPHABET not literature:
Literature is NOT what was in the great library in real life- it was scientific texts and philosophy, this wonder can be one tech earlier.

DRY DOCKS with ENGINEERING (was steel):
Shipbuilding is an ancient art really, and the concept of dry docks goes back to ancient Greece and the Cartheginians... so we'll compromise- this allows more sailing ships to enter the game if you want to focus that way.

CARAVAL carries TWO special units:
As they were, even with more time to use them, the Age of Discovery wasn't quite as fun as it ought to have been when I played TERRA maps... so I let the caravel be a little more effective at delivering Conquistadores (Explorers and Missionaries if you will). :)

CANNONS require GUNPOWDER + Printing Press (was steel + gunpowder):
This unit came WAY too late in the game, in my opinion- about 1 tech away from ARTILLERY! So now it can occur in the gunpowder age, but not instantly with gunpowder, you need to have researched the other mechanical branch a little too.

AMBUSH PROMOTION not available until you develop STEEL

ALL SHIPS have +1 movement from vanilla civ iv. (except work boats)

FORBIDDEN PALACE, CITY WALLS, and CASTLE are cheaper to build.

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CIVIC STUFF (LOOk over this screen in the game! Many changes to bring a better balance.) I find I actually change governements now and then, and even fret over what to choose at times now.
-----


PAPER needed for Beaurocracy (was civil service- so it's one tech later).

GOODY HUT MAP: Reveals a little more map a little further away.

SHEEP: +1 food, prod. and trade w/pasture (was +2,0,+1).

WHALE: +1 Prod and food as base tile. (was +1 food)

CAVALRY upgrades to Tank OR Gunship: I've no idea why cavalry to gunships was in the vanilla game since all the worlds cavalry was usually dead in the intervening 100 years that tanks and artillery ruled the lands... so, now human and AI have a choice.

CASTLE with CONSTRUCTION (was engineering): so it's earlier

BUNKER w/REFRIGERATION (was electricity): so later by one tech

Reworked TECH REQUIREMENTS for FLIGHT, ARTILLERY, ROCKETRY, and COMBUSTION to make those a little harder to run for without supporting techs. FLIGHT was too easily skipped completely- I didn't like that for the space race.

MARKET is a -1 health building.
It brings in a lot of trade, people, and so disease (like the plague) so this needs to be represented somewhat in the game, IMO. (Besides I want something to slow city growth just a tad.)

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FORT CHANGES:
three levels, by tech, higher levels inclusive of lower levels:

Basic:
+5% Heal

w/Optics:
+5% Heal
+1 Visibility

w/Steel:
+5% Heal
10% withdraw chance gained
1 first strike chance

Because the AI doesn't build forts and they are more helpful now the time to build them is increased by +66%.

Balanced start locations better at higher difficulties.

Units after Warrior and up to Musketmen are 5 prod. cheaper to produce. This has the effect of making the classical age more populated and bit more "lively."

Workshops come with MACHINERY (one tech earlier)

LOWERED commerce bonus of market/grocer to 20%. (-10% net change)

LOWERED science bonus of universities/observatories to 20% (-10% net change/-5% each)

AI HANDICAP is now truly much closer to EQUAL with the player on NOBLE difficulty.
AI HANDICAP at PRINCE is balanced a bit more in the AI's favor- with slightly grater Barbarian activity.

Observatory requires Astronomy and Liberalism (was just Astronomy)

NIIICE, cant wait to try it !!!

I don't like the idea but I'll give it a try.

Great !!! This is what I was looking for !!!
Tech went way to fast,can't wait to try it out.

Hmm. I think your changes sound a lot better than the ones in the "Civ4 Realism Mod." But I haven't tried either yet.


This mod INCLUDES the following mods:
Improved DOMESTIC ADVISOR by homegrown:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=135189

I would think that would be something for people to put into their CustomAssets folder if they like it.

Improved DIPLOMACY TEXT by rjwoer:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142029

Same as above.


How to use:
UNZIP to the civ4\mods\ folder like any other mod. So you should have a "Slower Tech + Balance" folder right under your MODS folder in your main CIV directory.


Shouldn't it go in CustomMods?


SPY & SCOTLAND YARD available with NATIONALISM:
Why? Because waiting until communism SUCKS.... and besides the plans for textile mills were stolen by "spies" in real life back in the 1700's or so... I figure an earlier tech should get you spies.

Spies existed a loooonnnnggggg time ago. Sun Tzu talks about them in the Art of War (http://www.kimsoft.com/polward.htm), although he mainly talks about using them to gain intelligence about the enemy's disposition and to feed the enemy misinformation, not about sabotage.


SCOTLAND YARD and spies are cheaper:
'Cause FIRAXIS screwed up and made spy issions NOT modifyable in COST! DAMN IT! SO I cut the player a break here at least. 12% cheaper.

Eep.


AMBUSH PROMOTION NOT available until you develop STEEL

Hmm. I'm curious why? If it's out of a concern that military strategy and tactics were pretty bad up until that point, then consider Sun Tzu. In his day (around 500 BC), the armies he was familiar with were made up of chariots and mail-clad soldiers:

Sun Tzu said: In the operations of war, where there are in the field a thousand swift chariots, as many heavy chariots, and a hundred thousand mail-clad soldiers,

[The "swift chariots" were lightly built and, according to Chang Yu, used for the attack; the "heavy chariots" were heavier, and designed for purposes of defense. Li Ch`uan, it is true, says that the latter were light, but this seems hardly probable. I t is interesting to note the analogies between early Chinese warfare and that of the Homeric Greeks. In each case, the war-chariot was the important factor, forming as it did the nucleus round which was grouped a certain number of foot-soldiers. With re gard to the numbers given here, we are informed that each swift chariot was accompanied by 75 footmen, and each heavy chariot by 25 footmen, so that the whole army would be divided up into a thousand battalions, each consisting of two chariots and a hun dred men.]

(The stuff in []s were notes by the translator, Lionel Giles)

The rest sounds good, though personally I have reservations about the changes to the religions.

Why is it when i load this mod i get an xml errors that say there are more siblings than memory allocated for them ?

Great work Mad, and a vast improvement. Thank you. No, I agree, such changes are not changing the game, but actually making it more enjoyable. Please see my 'Strategy and Game Speed Improvement' thread under 'Creation & Customization' posted as a suggestion, as I personally think that 100% to 200% longer is not out of the question. I once had a game that literally took months to play, and it was fun for just that reason. It was like a dear friend with its own reality that made it so enjoyable - like reading a long epic novel that puts you in the driver seat. Cheers!

Why is it when i load this mod i get an xml errors that say there are more siblings than memory allocated for them ?

I'm not getting that. Have you added any mods to your CustomAssets folder?

If not, it might be a good idea to clear your cache files. Find your Documents and Settings/Application Data/My Games folder, and delete the 'Sid Meier's Civilization' folder if it's there, to do that.

I'm also having a problem with this mod. First off I really love it. Great work! That being said if I try to load a saved game after playing with the mod, I keep getting an error when Civ tried to reload the mod. I've tried loading the mod first then loading the saved game file but that doesn't work either. Suggestions? Am I doing something wrong? Civ keeps telling me that the folder is invalid but I can load the mod up on a new game.

Please post your savegame, and I'll take a look.

HINDUISM/BUDDHISM spread at 90% rate. CHRISTIANITY/ISLAM spread at 110% rate.


Is this intended to spread the later religions faster? Because if it is...I read that the higher the number...the slower the rate! I don't know for sure though!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137834

Here's a new game I made to keep the file smaller. Still having same problem. Thanks for the help!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103004&stc=1&d=1131412349

I'm having the same problem as Citidream...can't reload my saved game.:(

Hope somebody can help!

I'm also having a problem with this mod. First off I really love it. Great work! That being said if I try to load a saved game after playing with the mod, I keep getting an error when Civ tried to reload the mod. I've tried loading the mod first then loading the saved game file but that doesn't work either. Suggestions? Am I doing something wrong? Civ keeps telling me that the folder is invalid but I can load the mod up on a new game.

I am having the same problem...did you get a fix for it?

Savegame load problems solved by placing the mod in your civ4\mods folder, not the some other folder. This is a problem with all mods on some systems.

Shadowlord:
I'd add in spies earlier, but I'm not wanting to offbalance things from Vanilla too much yet.

The reason AMBUSH comes later is it's only good versus ARMORED units ie TANKS... and being able to begin prepping units with this upgrade about 80 turns prior to tanks is... um... not to my taste to put it midly. Sun Tzu's wisdom aside... :) The quotes are great though.

Nu uh:
Then you'll like the version I posted above as it supports EPIC game length... 700+ turns. OMG that's a long time. Seems like world conquest ought to happen a lot sooner but maybe not?

don_lahnum:
Oh crap... might have reversed this... thanks for the heads up. I'll make sure it's right for the next release.

I am having the same problem...did you get a fix for it?

Fix is here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4104103#post4104103

I ended up fixing my problem. I had another file from another mod in the custom assets folder.

I am enjoying this mod. I did noticce that the rate of great leaders born seems to be a bit out of control. Ive had turns go by where several leaders are born in a turn. This seems to happen frequently.

Not sure if thats intended other than that 2 thumbs up.


I also think that the game go by slower if more techs where added. Instead of wheel allowing roads, have a seperate tech called roads. Something of this nature may help extend the time rather than increasing the cost

Great persons are born slower in the mod- so not sure why more would be born in your game- sometimes (even unmodded) I noticed more than 1 will be born to different civs. Seems to be WAD to me.

don_lahnum:
Oh crap... might have reversed this... thanks for the heads up. I'll make sure it's right for the next release.

No problem...I just hope it's right! On a side note...do you know how to change the leader traits? I'd like to change one to Ind/Phi...but can't find that info anywhere!

I like a lot of your ideas, but not all of them, so I'm modifying my game with the ones I want.

The one that I can't figure out: how do you change the prereq. for cottages and wineries?

-RDF

I like a lot of your ideas, but not all of them, so I'm modifying my game with the ones I want.

The one that I can't figure out: how do you change the prereq. for cottages and wineries?

-RDF

Inside of Units\CIV4BuildInfos.xml:

Just search for winery, and under its entry will be <PrereqTech>blah blah</PrereqTech>, just change it appropriately

same for cottages.

v0.7 is posted now.

- lighthouse +1 food change the game too much, maybe should mod to +1 gold and + 2 health? otherwise coast too attractive to human player.

- BIOLOGY for jungle a little late, steam power should be better because more reasonable for jungle clear (machine work is the key, not biology) and not too late for game.

- settler should not settle down in jungle before the requirement.

I didn't change the lighthouse- that's vanilla civ iv.

good suggestion for jungle clearing. I'll look to that. Think on it.

good call on settler too.

could lighthouse be mod to "total add 2 to 3 food"? since lighthouse +1 food would may even a single island go up to 25 people, a total add 2 food could support 4 people, and add 3 food could support 5 people.

maybe that's should have a total solution mod to the game, not just cut the lighthouse, but also no farm in tundra too...

now got an idea, lighthouse get +1 food only from coast, not from all water, could it be done by mod? and tundra could not improved by farming.

[QUOTE=Dearmad]
CAVALRY upgrades to Tank (was gunships): I've no idea why cavalry to gunships was in the vanilla game since all the worlds cavalry was usually dead in the intervening 100 years that tnaks and artillery ruled the lands... so.
QUOTE]

They upgraded to gunships because gunships are the cavalry for the modern world! Gunships support the tanks!

But they don't upgrade to that- none survive that long in my experience... thinking practically here I wanted the AI to be caught with his pants down less often, not more. :D Might be able to leave both paths open. Have to see.

It would be possible to not allow farming on Tundra... not sure I've ever farmed on tundra though- have to check to see if that's even possible right now. Hm.

[QUOTE=Dearmad]
CAVALRY upgrades to Tank (was gunships): I've no idea why cavalry to gunships was in the vanilla game since all the worlds cavalry was usually dead in the intervening 100 years that tnaks and artillery ruled the lands... so.
QUOTE]

They upgraded to gunships because gunships are the cavalry for the modern world! Gunships support the tanks!
I was thinking of the 1st Calvary/Airmobile Division in the U.S. Army as the reasoning behind this advance.

It would be possible to not allow farming on Tundra... not sure I've ever farmed on tundra though- have to check to see if that's even possible right now. Hm.

To the best of my knowledge, it's possible, but only in tiles immediately adjacent to fresh water, no matter what technology you have.

-RdF

I didn't change the lighthouse- that's vanilla civ iv.

good suggestion for jungle clearing. I'll look to that. Think on it.

good call on settler too.


We cant forget that people lived in junglesperhaps since the begining of civilization. So having settler settle in jungles is resonable.

THe downside to it is that you could build a road in and out so trade is hard. Especially if you want those gems

2 bugs reporting:

- DIPLOMACY TEXT MOD seems unstead, when Eygpt first contact MALI, it crash, maybe had to test it or remove it?

- Horse archer upgrade to 25% vs gunpowder?

We cant forget that people lived in junglesperhaps since the begining of civilization. So having settler settle in jungles is resonable.

THe downside to it is that you could build a road in and out so trade is hard. Especially if you want those gems

but if AI could settle down in Jungle but can't clear it, it will damage the AI...because AI don't know Jungle can not be clear until industral age.

even Jungle could be clear in later, the working time should be double...

bebear: that's theoretical at this point, because I've played many games with the Jungle changed like this and the AI is not crippled in anyway I can see. The overall effect is to slow economic growth a little (which is what i want) when it comes to using jungle resources. It also makes for some interesting hot spots in the world where modern jungle warfare gets practiced. I like this.

the diplomacy txt mod bug you report has not happened to me: anyone else seeing this!?

horsearcher what? I didn't change horsearchers at all either (same thing with lighthouses) so what is the bug?

Also, since Tundra works well as it is- Ithink farming there only with fresh water directly present is fine.

hemperor:
Yeah in hindsight I'll let people settle jungle- the potential exploit of settling all over in jungles is minimal since it's a tough place... so that will remain the same.

Also the reason BIOLOGY is the tech for clearing jungle is that *everyone* goes for steampower, etc. for obvious reasons... I wanted there to be a reason to go for the bio-medical route as an alternate that was attractive. Both techs occur about the same time in the game, so, yeah, it's a game mechanic versus total realism...

EVERYONE:
I'll be yanking out the Faith mod changes and re-relasing v0.7a sometime tonight. Faith mod seems to displease most people... so fine, I'll remove it. I hope to include the Fort changes as well by that point- with proper credit, etc.

v0.7a posted. Added some changes to forts (via the real fort mod- but toned down), took out faith mod, made market -1 health building (lots of people from lots of lands in one place = disease... plague). Also it helps slow down the economy just a tad...

all cav wrong promotion with vs gunpowder instead vs archer...maybe something wrong in tech tree?

Dearmad,

I like you MOD because you have deep understand of the gameplay and done a great job, it has deep consideration of gameplay and get some remend of AI weakness, and i am willing to contribute some idea to help the MOD. I think a good MOD should always help the stupid AI relative smart for gamplay, that's the key.


---------------------------

the lighthouse:

maybe i'm not native english speaker so i had not speak clear, not said you had mod it, just a suggestion idea:

a single tile island in ocean should not go to 25 population for less attrative for human player, and in the ancient age, fishing should only available at coast. and if lake in the city area, the lake also look as "sea" getting benefit.

check the XML, lighthouse bonus "seaplot" - that means all water, don't know could realize this idea by changing "seaplot" to "coast"...

if reduce the effect of lighthose to just coast, even a single island, the benefit wil be at least 8 coast area surround them, to feed this island up to 10 population with the reduced lighthouse... and with a fish +4, it could raize to 14 pop.


---------------------

settler in jungle/tundra(maybe include desert?):

maybe should set settler could not settle (or not enter, maybe it will help AI not explore a big jungle in Earth map?) in jungle/tundra in early age, the idea of MOD just prevent the AI and player expend to bad land too early, maybe a tech later in medieval age could make this available... if playing the 18civs Earth map, this setting is good for no early settlement in jungle/tundra/jungle filled island for better realism, how about mechineary (or ironwork? seems a little early but more realism) to enable them settle down?

another 2 idea of gameplay and helping AI:

ideas of razing cities rule MOD:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=139511


idea of population cap MOD by ages:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=139518

another idea is fast moving army (cav/tank) should not enter jungle (maybe include iceland) but it may damage the AI?

a suggestion of state property: it's really too strong, help human player too much, when i play the Earth map using China, i could build a very huge empire with 25+ cities and settle everywhere, and my GNP is about 400% to the strongest AI...and it has no civic upkeep! regulation/corruption/lot's of governor should lots of money...

i think it should change to -1 money for plot with 2 more money, just like counter trait of financial with high upkeep to reflect the damage in non state owned busniess money income and high tax to feed the governor, and the no distant maintenance should be 50% off instead of none.

about the lighthouse, for some people suggestion, how about just ignore it, just set sea plot 0 food 1 gold instead of 1 food 1 gold? it should work well and make small inland not so attractive and more realism...

what is wrong? Slower tech+balance mod does not appear in the scenario list :( I have unpacked the files directly to the civIV/mods/ directory...

I really would like to play this mod...:cry:

Jouda you can find it under advanced -> load a mod.

And to Dearmad great job really like your mod :goodjob:

What do you think of splitting empires

Can we have more than 18 Civs on the map ?

Hi Peter

Like your mod , thanks :)
How did you set that JUNGLE requires biology ?

Thanks
Joe

Jouda you can find it under advanced -> load a mod.

Thanks a lot, I must have been blind :-)

an idea of cav-tank-gunship solution: seems cav direct upgrade to tank still not the best way, how about using the panzer model as “real tank" for every civ for tank and could upgrade to modern armor, and the normal tank model as cav - light armor - gunship ?

the heavy tank could be the same ability as vanilla but only get 25% bonus vs armor expect real panzer get 50%; light armor could be set to 20 attack, 3 moving like the setting in "desert war mod"....

and i find that in vanilla game, armors also could get "vs city bonus upgrade", and i can bulid it with 10 exp in all cities, is not a good setting, should this promotion be removed from all real armor unit except the armor infantry?

I just wanted to say that this is a very good mod. The timing of everything works out very nicely. There were only a few things I went into the XML and changed but they were small, civic related things. Overall, excellent mod.

PS- The map that I'm playing on right now has A LOT of jungle... so the Bio thing REALLY matters.

Hi Peter

Like your mod , thanks :)
How did you set that JUNGLE requires biology ?

Thanks
Joe

In the units xml for building things. There are a lot of settings in there that got changed so that roads and plantations and stuff can be built with Gunpowder, but clearing jungle requires Bio.

lachlan:
splitting empires = BIG mod to change that and keep things fun/balanced. Trip is sorta working in that direction, but so far I don't consider the changes made in that mod to introduce fun elements. The mod that introduces and manages civil wars etc will be long, involved and complex.

AFAIK you can have 18 civs on a map.

OU23:
let me know what you disagree on- all input is welcome.

bebear:
those suggestions are just too subtle and/or complex for me. I jsut wanted the cavelry not to mount up and charge out when tnkas are on the field but not gunships yet, that's all. So the AI will upgrade them and not toss the poor rats to their dooms.

ALL:
Thanks for the praise. And when you disagree with something, go ahead and voice it- while I may not change it for the mod, at least I'll have a more full appreciation of how things are playing out for you all.

OU23:
let me know what you disagree on- all input is welcome.



I didn't really "disagree" with anything regarding the mod per se, I just changed a few aspects of the civics. I haven't had nearly enough time to experiment with the civics to the point that I'm even sure what I want so don't take it as me disagreeing with what you have changed, just take it as me experimenting even more so. But what you nailed dead on was the pace of the game. Germany is my favorite civ and has always been so it's good that I'm actually able to use Panzers for more than one conflict.

I didn't really "disagree" with anything regarding the mod per se, I just changed a few aspects of the civics. I haven't had nearly enough time to experiment with the civics to the point that I'm even sure what I want so don't take it as me disagreeing with what you have changed, just take it as me experimenting even more so. But what you nailed dead on was the pace of the game. Germany is my favorite civ and has always been so it's good that I'm actually able to use Panzers for more than one conflict.

Same here. Except I am stupid and do not know how to mod the game.

I love to have longer game and I am very happy with the changes in tech, advisors and forts. However civics and religion I do not want to touch at this moment. It seems to me that if we start modding religion to correspond to history (for instance your ideas for Islam and Christianity) we will channel the game and decrease the number of ways wich lead to victory. I am not religious myself but I have slight preference for East religions/philosophy and I would like to play and win with them.

Dearmad, would it be too arrogant to ask you for a "light" version of the mod, without the civics or religion changed. :)

In the units xml for building things. There are a lot of settings in there that got changed so that roads and plantations and stuff can be built with Gunpowder, but clearing jungle requires Bio.
Thanks for that , I spent ages trying to figure out where it was. I changed the clear jungle action to be available with machinery and increased its time to 600.
I'm also glad you removed the religion changes , I liked all the other changes.
I think once the pacing is right i'd suggest "freezing" this mod and maybe doing another one with a different name if you want to include new things.

Thanks again I'm looking forward to trying your mo in an epic game !.
Joe

Same here. Except I am stupid and do not know how to mod the game.

I love to have longer game and I am very happy with the changes in tech, advisors and forts. However civics and religion I do not want to touch at this moment. It seems to me that if we start modding religion to correspond to history (for instance your ideas for Islam and Christianity) we will channel the game and decrease the number of ways wich lead to victory. I am not religious myself but I have slight preference for East religions/philosophy and I would like to play and win with them.

Dearmad, would it be too arrogant to ask you for a "light" version of the mod, without the civics or religion changed. :)

maybe once the rest of the pacing is worked out and the mod is closer to done....

but it's interesting you (and others) perceived the small changes to Islam and Xtianity as somethig to simulate relaity... they weren't. I did those to balance out the game a little more. In EVERY game I'd played to that point, xtianity and islam were minor, unimportant religions which no one would claim. I wanted the religions to be a little more balanced (much in the way firaxis provided confucionism + a free missionary), that was all.

The civics changes were to provide some reason to even USE the other civics- otherwise slavery isn't a choice, nor is caste system- they were practically worthless.

However, a quick workaround for you is to simply delete the civics.xml in the worldinfo folder of the mod. Then the game will load the standard one.

In my games lately with those changes, I've rather liked how things played out- different civics get used and xtianity/islam are religions to actual reckon with.

You changed too much. Anyone know if there is a mod that changes the length of the game and the tech rate and that stuff but leaves the rest of the game alone?

Dearmad - Did you alter resources spawning at all? It may simply be a coincidence, but it seems that there are always less resources popping up in your mod. Maybe I'm just paranoid... :D

I altered oil and uranium. Nothing else. Should be enough uranium for 50% of the civs, and oil for 80%.

Okay. I must just be having bad luck. I never seem to find any wheat, corn, or rice! And no clams. Wierd. But my last game had 3 copper, 3 iron, and 2 marble within my 5 cities.

I merged Alex's uniques mini mod with yours and it's doing fine. Maybe I'll get brave at try to add the Carthagian mod as well. I like the pace of your mod, although it's taking a bit of getting used to seeing the odd years that you generated, ie : 281BC, 3411BC, ect. Everyone else has round numbers, making yours unique for sure!

I like those years that pop up. I just went straight for the math to get the right speed ratios to match the slower tech... and that's how it turned out- it evens out about 1400's or so...

Some resources are clumpier than others- but I didn't mod them to be- in one game the US had 6 clams! All of em basically...

In my last game the Mali had 2 uranium... fotunately he was my tight ally so no real nuke war worries.

minor bug: mining on jungle hill no need biology and will clear jungle.

You changed too much. Anyone know if there is a mod that changes the length of the game and the tech rate and that stuff but leaves the rest of the game alone?

I'd like to cast my vote as well for a "light" version of this mod. Mainly I like the time changes you've made. Perhaps later after I've played a bit more I'd try the other gameplay changes you've made, but for now I'd love to just use your time changes. Thanks for all the great work! :thumbsup:

im having a problem with this mod. I cant seem to load a saved game. I get an error message saying thtat the mod directory isnt a valid mod. I have double checked to make sure I installed it in the MODS folder. I can start a new game no problem. Any idea what could be causing this?

This mod is really good, it seems to be a lot more balanced than vanilla. Congrats!


ps - does anyone know how you can label terrain and draw arrows? This was supposed to be a good feature but I cant find it without opening up the world builder (which is cheating b/c it reveals the map!)

Calvery upgrades to gunships... Historically correct... Calvery was around during WWII, and during Korea and Vietnam, the American Calvery Units became the Air Calvery Units, for fast attacks and support. Calvery to tanks is just to much of an overpowering upgrade for me. Now if there was a light tank, fast and nimble, to upgrade calvery to, then I would go for that.

Sorry, but I'm not interested in historically correct when it fouls the AI up so completely and makes the game less fun. All the AI's cavelry is dead and gone by the time gunships show up. And the AI has to play catch-up with building tanks. It becomes a push over since the AI (at ALL diff. levels) gets to upgrade at about 30% of cost and apparently depends on this in order to keep pace (check out the handicap.xml).

wenamon:
read through this thread- in an earlier post a link that solves that problem. It isn't the mod's fault- it is how CIV IV handles resources and files...

To all:
If you want JUST the time changes. Install only the gamespeed.xml file. What could be simpler?

To all:
If you want JUST the time changes. Install only the gamespeed.xml file. What could be simpler?

Thanks for that info Dearmad! Much appreciated!:D

Dearmad - Can you point in the right direction on where to change the cottage tech back to where it was? I find I have no gold without them!

im having a problem with this mod. I cant seem to load a saved game. I get an error message saying thtat the mod directory isnt a valid mod. I have double checked to make sure I installed it in the MODS folder. I can start a new game no problem. Any idea what could be causing this?


Place the MOD in CIV's MOD directory (like other bundle MODs), but not the My document's MOD directory.

thanks dearmab and bebear. Unfortunately, my game that I had already started is lost because it is looking for the mod file in the my documents mods folder I guess. Oh well, guess I can start again. Mod is playing really well tho

Does anyone have an answer for my labelling terrain inquiry?

For instance, labelling a desert tile "Qin's Foley"? would make for a more interesting game!

[/I]

So what's this mod all about?

Dearmad - Can you point in the right direction on where to change the cottage tech back to where it was? I find I have no gold without them!

Check in the units folder- the xml that has "building" in the title under there- not the buildings xml, but the unit file used for controlling what workers can build.

Thanks. I never would have looked there, ever.

Yeah some things are in strange places until you get familiar with them.

be carefulin that one- there are two places where you can affect the tech required- one place defines when you can do it, but then another defines when you can do it to specific terrain features... which is good for making detailed changes, but not good for making quick universal changes.

Heh. I found out the hard way. I can build cottages on clear land now, but have to clear forest first then the cottage. It doesn't affect me one way or another so I'm not worried about it.

FYI - You mod's tempo mixed with Alex's uniques make for some awesome Middle Age warfare. Absolutely perfect for me since once gunpowder gets introduced I could care less.

So what's this mod all about?

Hiya, Jack! Got your copy of the game yet?

You will have a HUGE penalilty, if your starting location is in a jungle, and you are surrounded by it. I tried it, me and my fellows on the same continent was something like 15 techs behind all other civs without jungle(maybe even more). If you can't shop jungle before biology, you have too give jungle tiles more value, otherwise the game will be too hard.

hello all,
I just played this mod, it's nice.
The problem was that I got cavalary before knight -> something in the tech tree doesn't add up.

I don't think that you have to research Guilds to get Military Tradition - so it's "normal" to be able to get Cavalry first (even though it's a bad decision to do it that way).

The problem is that the AI didn't study Military Tradition in time... that means an unfair advantage to Human player when playing against AI.
It's not really though to conquare when you have unit with 15 & the player defend with 6.

concerning cavalry\gunship\tank relations...

cavalry was last used in ww2. the beginning of ww2. helicopters came around during the cold war, less than 20 years later (effective combat helicopters).
there were actually cases of cavalry troops put right into helicopters (according to apocalypse now :p ) so the upgrade is not at all senseless.

You will have a HUGE penalilty, if your starting location is in a jungle, and you are surrounded by it. I tried it, me and my fellows on the same continent was something like 15 techs behind all other civs without jungle(maybe even more). If you can't shop jungle before biology, you have too give jungle tiles more value, otherwise the game will be too hard.
That calls for a tweak indeed, it will ruin gameplay in a different way otherwise: the AI starting near jungle will be eradicated before you discover him. Perhaps a shield bonus for jungle on hills and a food bonus for jungle in general. There are so many creatures living in the jungle, right?!

Having played on a random map and ending up with quite a bit of jungle around me I have to agree that clearing jungle comes too late in the tech tree.

In the next version, starting locations are tweaked a bit so at higher levels you won't face such an uneven start. Prince+ Also roads through jungle will be possible with Iron working (so not gunpowder).

But honestly, the challenge jungle presents in a single player game is something I find fair to face. There are other places to settle, and ways to deal with it. And the occasional AI that gets caught in them appear to do pretty well in my games, but there are always 5+ other ai's around the world not in a jungle. I *like* the way it forces some inequity into the game, so I have to strategically think about how to deal with the situaiton.

In a multi-player game- if you're playing maps that aren't balanced to begin with, I'm sorry but it's not my concern to balance jungles. My premise is jungles are fierce, dangerous places that defied attempts to civilize them at all until well past the 1700's. It took machinery and medicine to do it.

Bottom line:
if you want it out, don't install the untibuild.xml file and the tech.xml file. Then you can clear jungle from the classical ages on and have no more jungles in the world by 1100 ad. :)

Re: Cavalry upgrading into Tank vs. Gunship

How about letting Cavarly upgrade to tank (like you have done) then allowing tank to be upgraded into either Modern Tank or Gunship (like you have an option to upgrade rifleman into infantry or SAM trooper).

One thing tho, gunship is pretty underpowered (24?) vs. Modern Tank so how about upping the 'vs armour' bonus. That way gunship becomes a niche tank counter unit like SAM Trooper.

How ever i am not sure how AI would use this. Most human players would probably do majority upgrade to mod tank with a minority units upgraded to gunship. Would be a major problem if AI upgraded simply based on what unit (/tech) is available first rather than what appropriate!

Akaz

Having played on a random map and ending up with quite a bit of jungle around me I have to agree that clearing jungle comes too late in the tech tree.

Maybe rather than clearing jungle you get a bonus for living there maybe hardy troops?

To all:
If you want JUST the time changes. Install only the gamespeed.xml file. What could be simpler?

So I must keep only the gamespeedinfo.xml file in Assets\XML\GameInfo and delete everything else?

Maybe rather than clearing jungle you get a bonus for living there maybe hardy troops?

Oooo, yes, Jungle Fremen....

I played with this mod over the last few days, and it was a lot more fun, though there were a few things I would (and will) tweak about it. Just figured I'd list 'em, as feedback or whatnot:

Taking a look at the gamespeed file and it looks like you set inflation too high. While the turn length actually shortens, you've increased inflation rate. Couple that with late cottages, and it makes for a very tight situation the whole way through.

Also, I think you might want to tweak the speed of the game a bit. I found myself lagging behind where I usually am on tech by year, and I think that your speed isn't quite balanced to your tech slowdown.

I also think that, from a gameplay perspective, changing where tech trading starts might be playing with fire a bit. When I mess with stuff, I generally operate under the assumption that the game was playtested to run a good length on a standard size map, normal speed, noble difficulty. If you push back when tech trading starts, you slow down overall tech development speed, and it could throw the balance out of whack. I haven't played through this several times over to playtest that theory, but I think it might be a problem.

Just my $0.02. All in all, a real good mod.

Has anyone else had the problem of only getting maps from goody huts? I have had 5 straight huts give me maps...

I love the mod, but have two gripes:

1) Cavalry upgrade - tanks and cavalry did appear in WW2 (as well as mounted infantry). In many countries cavalry reigiments were changed into Air Cav, which seems to be a good match for the gunshipof cIV

2) Civilizations did form in SA jungle regions. I propose that civs that start in jungle areas does not get the health penalty from jungles, thus making the disadvantage smaller (although the tiles are still largely unusable until biology). This would also give the advantage that their cities would not be very likely targets for occupation.

So I must keep only the gamespeedinfo.xml file in Assets\XML\GameInfo and delete everything else?

Yes. This should do it.

On the next version:
I'll be waiting to adjust the mod and some changes that have been made once the patch is out. I don't want to have to double my efforts if the patch changes things too much.

The jungle:
The jungle complaint goes both ways. I'm just not too keen to make jungles easy places to settle. I dislike in civ how terrain really doesn't do anything negative for much time in the game at all- "don't like the jungle? cut it down! (circa 1000bc!)" This just isn't fun for me. That maybe one AI per game gets crippled (at most in any game I've played and I've played a mod like this since civ3) or that I need to race toward seafaring techs to settle colonies or go to war early to claim better land, has always been a part of the fun challenge for me.

On Cav upgrades. I've yet to ehar a convincing *game* arguement as to why cav -> gunships works well. The AI is crippled by this upgrade.

My compromise (if I can manage it) will be to do as someone suggested: upgrade to either tank OR gunship. This way you can hold off if you like, but in the meantime the AI won't be fighting your tanks with cavalry it has left over from the 1700-1800's- they'll most likely be tanks.

I think the worker rate can be the key. Slow down “clear jungle” speed, the same goes fore creating cottages, but both of them must be available on an earlier stage. That will brings up the same situation as it was in civ3, jungle tiles takes more turn too clear, and too clear it too earlie you needed a worker army, something the economy in civ4 don't allow.
About the cottage, enable it earlier will prevent you too kill the economy in the classical era, and when you slow down the worker rate, it also avoid the economy too boom too fast. Also the worker overall speed needs too be reduced, it’s too fast now, when more turns is added into the game.

I think the worker rate can be the key. Slow down “clear jungle” speed, the same goes fore creating cottages, but both of them must be available on an earlier stage. That will brings up the same situation as it was in civ3, jungle tiles takes more turn too clear, and too clear it too earlie you needed a worker army, something the economy in civ4 don't allow.
About the cottage, enable it earlier will prevent you too kill the economy in the classical era, and when you slow down the worker rate, it also avoid the economy too boom too fast. Also the worker overall speed needs too be reduced, it’s too fast now, when more turns is added into the game.

:goodjob: Exactly, slowing down the rate workers clear a jungle would make it sensible. A suggestion would be to slow it down to a unbelievable time then, make it faster with gunpowder then, normal with medicine. Cottages the same, make the turns it takes to hamlet double or more and so on.
Just a thought

This idea would kill the AI.

And honestly, I don't know how you guys are playing, but my economy is booming regardless of the slightly later cottage start. The economies during classical era are not dependent on money unless you over expanded. See the balance there? The AI handles this fine, and seems to expand about right.

Cavalry update:
I think I got it working so Cavalry can upgrade both ways now. That should satisfy a lot of human players and still allow the AI a fair hand into the indutrial era.

Thanks DM, for all your work! Love your changes - stay firm on the jungle mods my man, they make for a very different game, much enjoyable! :goodjob:

And I also liked the Cav upgrade you did - glad you could make that a choice, though I am confused on how the AI will handle that...hope it can.

Am I right in seeing that your mod has been downloaded over 218,000 times????? Woo-Hoo!

This is amazing if correct (I hardly remeber seeing more than a few thousand for mods in the past) ...shows that the designers missed a huge segment of the gameplaying population by not including a true, lengthy game!

Ok, didn't want to post anything until I was sure ......

Nicely done DH, I have tried the Mod a few times now...and I'm enjoying it immensely.
With regard to the jungle clearing "thing"...my two cents says leave it where you have it now. It makes for some hard choices:goodjob:

I'm having the load problems people were earlier.

Well, I read over and did junk people said to fix it for three hours now and finally decided to register and ask for help since I seem to have failed doing it myself.

I just figured I'd do one last test and whatever I accomplished over the last three and discovered that if I made a new game it works, and it has the proper loading location.

So, I can start anew with your mod but when I try and load the game I played yesterday for about five hours it wants to load the incorrect mod location and doesn't work.

So, I was really enjoying that game and I'm wondering if there's any way that I can fix it to load properly because I really don't want to start over. I tried going into the save file and editting the location in the top line, but then it just gives me a different error about being wrong version when all I do is change the location.

Help would be great, but I have a feeling that it's not going to work properly since it was saved with the improper load location the whole time I played yesterday. Oh well, eight hours wasted and lesson learned about how to have the mods work I guess if I can't fix it :(.

I'm really liking the way this mod sounds, and have started one game with it, but it keeps crashing. I managed to save one and can't get it to load - I get an error message about a bad Mod location. I attached the message. Seems something wants to put a Mod directory before the rest of my path. Anyone know how to fix that? I didn't think I could screw up one sentence of install instructions... unzip to mod folder.

Put the mod into your civ4\mods folder, NOT My Games\Mods. Damnit!

Did that as soon as I saw the folder under prog files. Same thing.

It's not the shortcutted mods folder, are you sure? Civ IV manages its folders very oddly, IMO- and adds a bunch of folders that are shortcut folders to the wrong place.

You will need to delete your cache if you have previously run the mod from the My Games folder.

The cache is located (this is different to the folder you previously installed the mod in, it's not under My Documents):
C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\Application Data\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\cache

Delete all documents in this folder, delete the mod from the My Games folder under My Documents, and the mod should load fine.

It's not the shortcutted mods folder, are you sure? Civ IV manages its folders very oddly, IMO- and adds a bunch of folders that are shortcut folders to the wrong place.
I agree. You almost need a GPS device to find your way around it's convoluted paths at times. ;)

I also agree that the jungles should stay the way they are now.

You will need to delete your cache if you have previously run the mod from the My Games folder.

The cache is located (this is different to the folder you previously installed the mod in, it's not under My Documents):
C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\Application Data\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\cache

Delete all documents in this folder, delete the mod from the My Games folder under My Documents, and the mod should load fine.

Personally, I delete the cache every time I run Civ... Of course since I made a .bat file to do that a while back, it's no harder than running it normally. And I don't have to worry about it forgetting about updates to mods, etc. :mischief:

Deleteing the cache worked. Thanks for the advice guys.

Dearmad, great mod.

Dearmad, excellent mod and IMO sorely needed. I had big problems with some of the decisions that Firaxis made in its version of the game and I find it very interesting that yours and the Realism Mod are getting an enormous amount of attention.

I wonder, can you remove the cultural boundaries requirement for sea reasources? I posted a thread in the general discussion forum discussing shortcomings in the naval aspect of the game and I am wondering if a mod could make the changes suggested.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=142616

Let me know what you think. If it is possible, then maybe I will write the mod up myself perhaps to be intergrated with yours.

...C

Well all the patch came.. and went. So skip it, the changes to it seem like they won't affect the mod much at all- in fact some of the changes are mirrors of what I wanted to do anyway. Doesn't look like any underlying game balances have changed. I'll release the next version of the mod once I return from a train trip on thursday or so.

ytswy:
THANKS for the further fix to that damned mod save-game problem. Will file the information.

craniumgroup:
That change wouldn't be a simple one AFAI can tell- seems like it might be bound up in the dll. I see no quick XML route to changing that and (while i haven't done a totally thorough search) the python scripts I see running this aren't involved. i could be wrong.

On the change itself- that might have some far reaching affects. If the arguement is not being able to get to whales- I changed that resource to appear more often near the coastline than too far out.

Hey, just registered to say I enjoy this mod very much. I had downloaded version 0.7 and played it just fine, however when trying to run the updated version 0.7a I get an error when trying to load it:

"Tag: UNIT_CHRISTIAN_MISSIONARY2 in Info class was incorrect
Current XML file is: Units/CIV4UnitInfos.xml"

It seems to give that error for every religion's missionary unit.

I'm running patch 1.09, I hope that's not a problem :( (Again, no errors when running version 0.7)

Dearmad,
what do you think, might this one add in well into your mod?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=143682 (UN Resolution Modification)

i know, technically there should be no problem, as the UN-mod consists of 2 files not common with your mod (so i can merge them myself), but what do think of its idea?

[edit after trying: at least when loading a saved game, adding the 2 UN-Mod-files to your Mod crashes the game, even if i delete the cache. it seems to work when starting a new game, though]

This is easily my favorite mod.
it trounces realism mod because it cares more for the A.I and the actual gameplay, and features are more checked against the A.Is ability to handle them properly (not perfectly, of course, but still. there's clearly more attention to what the AI does).

Is there any way that you could add some of the new civilizations to this mod? I would love to use this mod as the Cherokee or Vikings etc. etc., but I am not sure if this is possible. Love the mod though. Thanks.

Please update dearmad, I am dying to try your mod altho I hope you are going to change clear jungle to steam power. Holding off on my first game with the new patch till I can get the updated version of your mod! Great work!

just wanted to chime in my support, best mod yet

"FISSION reveals URANIUM (was physics):
Because the stupid AI will trade Uranium and mine it before it can USE it! -sigh- So that's fixed."

This makes no sense. Plenty of countries have uranium and sell it to other countries, without having the nuclear reactors to use it themselves. The country of Niger comes to mind (yellowcake fiasco)....

SO PLEASE FIX IT BACK FOR REALISM'S SAKE!!!!

Dearmad,
i was trying to merge your mod with the promotions-mod and discovered you also changed CIV4GameTextInfos_Objects.xml. there are some bishops in there now (for every religion, but only in english language, other languages get 2 different "missionary"-entries).

was that you & what do they do?

sorry to post again, but it's for something completely different: can someone confirm the info screen (F9) is not opening with this mod installed?

it might have something to do with patch 1.09, as this was observed in the tradable-mod: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140958&highlight=1.09+info+screen

anybody else having this problem?

Yup, no info screen here either.

Would it be possible to combine the Lost units and Lost wonder mods with this one? I tried copying them into this mod and got some very odd results. Has anyone else had any success?

Would it be possible to combine the Lost units and Lost wonder mods with this one? I tried copying them into this mod and got some very odd results. Has anyone else had any success?

I have not tried, but I would like it very much!

Would it be possible to combine the Lost units and Lost wonder mods with this one? I tried copying them into this mod and got some very odd results. Has anyone else had any success?
it's not possible by simply copying the files. you have to merge them, as there are some identical files changed in both mods.
at home, I merged lost wonders with this mod and it worked on a new game (and without further testing) - it crashed a previous savegame though, so if you want to merge them, you'll have to start a new game.

@info screen, thanks Flatline23, anybody else?

I like the idea of slowing down gameplay, and I intend to use the updated version of this mod, but I think you went way overboard with the changes.

In real life, Uranium is mined and traded by countries that cannot use it.
Steam power to clear jungles? WHY? Man has cleared jungles since the beginning of time with bare hands and burning, and still does in parts of the world.
Etc.

You should slow city growth in proportion to the science rate and game length, otherwise you're not really accomplishing that much.
ah, and reduce the abundance of resources somewhat.

no info screen either.

"WHY? Man has cleared jungles since the beginning of time with bare hands and burning, and still does in parts of the world."

uh... no they haven't.. maybe a couple acres... not entire rainforests...

id leave the pop growth the way it is, i personally like it :x

anyone know how to fix this mod so that the info screen will work if you have installed the patch?

I like the idea of slowing down gameplay, and I intend to use the updated version of this mod, but I think you went way overboard with the changes.

In real life, Uranium is mined and traded by countries that cannot use it.
Steam power to clear jungles? WHY? Man has cleared jungles since the beginning of time with bare hands and burning, and still does in parts of the world.
Etc.

In real life they understand the value of the uranium and get fair value for it... the AI is a pushover about this. This change was for gameplay not realism.

IMO this is an important rather large change to keep, it won't be changed back until the AI is fixed or improved by firaxis. However, you can change it back easily though- it's like one piece of data in either the tech.xml or the resources type xml.

And yes, clear jungles is moved to Steam Power now (not meds) so that is done (per someone else's hopes).

I'll release a version tonight. The F9 thing is sucky... and i'm still trying to get to the bottom of that, however...

You should slow city growth in proportion to the science rate and game length, otherwise you're not really accomplishing that much.
ah, and reduce the abundance of resources somewhat.


City growth is slowed in proportion to game length already. Science rate is slowed as well. These are integral to the mod already. I really don't understand your point.

Oil is at 75% and uranium at 66% of previous levels. A few slight other changes were made to other resource.

Hey Dearmad, you haven't issued any new updates yet since the patch have you? Just checking as I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything!

A new version has just been posted (v0.8a). The first one post official patch (v1.09).

can you post a changelog for this version, and for any future updates please?

Also, does the info screen work with the new version?

Great job Dearmad. Now, if you can add to the next version the following mods

- Lost units
- Lost wonders
- SuperCiv

you will be my hero!

I have a problem with missionaries in this mod. I have founded 3 religions and built temples, monasteries in my cities but I can produce ONLY missionaries of my STATE religion. So only Hindu not Christian or Judaist. Is this a bug?

Could you please add documentation/version changelog? especially on the forum.

I have a problem with missionaries in this mod. I have founded 3 religions and built temples, monasteries in my cities but I can produce ONLY missionaries of my STATE religion. So only Hindu not Christian or Judaist. Is this a bug?

This was fixed. Sounds like you need to clear you cache or something. I just triple checked the XML file- and indeed there is no statereligion req. there anymore.

As to the changelog. I don't have time to do a nice complete one at the moment- if you only knew what my "real" life was requiring of me at the moment... :eek: But here's a list of the things different to 0.8 from 0.7 beyond integrating the patch stuff as best as I could:

--
Missionaries no longer require state religion.

Clear jungle with Steampower. Can build roads throughit with ironworking. And can manipulate resources from jungles with gunpowder.

Added in horses appearing with husbandry per the v1.09 patch

Balanced start locations better at higher difficulties.

Later techs (beginning around mid renaissance are increased in cost to slow down later age development.) Earlier techs are slighlty cheaper (ONLY the most BASIC techs like wheel)- leads to a more even entry into classical age.

Units after Warrior/archer and up to Musketmen are 5 prod. cheaper to produce. This has the effect of making the classical age more populated and bit more "lively."

Workshops come with MACHINERY (one tech earlier)
--

F9 works IF you also use the improved info mod. I think it's included in the mod, but here's the guy's original thread:

Ulfn's Proper score graph mod:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144030&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

I think that's everything.

Great job Dearmad. Now, if you can add to the next version the following mods

- Lost units
- Lost wonders
- SuperCiv

you will be my hero!

I am willing to investigate integrating other mods... however you all need to meet me halfway and link me to them if you can. I simply have too little time right now to hunt things down, sorry. :(

One mod that could be nice to integrate into yours is the Monument mod:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144408

I am willing to investigate integrating other mods... however you all need to meet me halfway and link me to them if you can. I simply have too little time right now to hunt things down, sorry. :(

You rang, milord?

Lost Unit
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140601&page=2

Lost Wonders
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=143251

SuperCiv
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141855

The latter due to size (it has grown to 75 MB with the soundfiles, 25 MB - still too big - without) might be a pain to incorporate, but you could use a barebone version if you'd like.

Thanks anyway :goodjob:

I hope you won't integrate the 'MORE STUFF' mods.
More in this case is most definitely less, as it might throw balance out the window just so you could build 'more cool stuff!!!!11one'

:>

>> Missionaries no longer require state religion.

Yep it works on mine so it must be a cache prob

>> Clear jungle with Steampower. Can build roads throughit with ironworking. And can manipulate resources from jungles with gunpowder.

I can clear jungle with biology not steam, build things with gunpowder and I don't think ironworking lets me build roads, I think it's gunpowder still. If this is the case I think it should be iron instead since I still can't build a road to a town that is floundering in the middle of the jungle until gunpowder. At least with iron I can get some health to the city from trading animals.

Yeah I checked the xml, didn't really know what I was doing but had a muck around. It was gunpowder / steam / bio for building and clearing. There is also the problem that bio is clear jungle but with steam you can clear jungle with farms etc. Whatever the case I like it and think it's a good mod.

By the way I find that the domestic advisor python thingy doesn't work. I replaced it with the most up to date version from these forums and it's fine now - you should check that out for bundling with the mod.

[edit] I was also just wondering what changes you have made in the globals? I noticed that you global xml has a few entries different from the original (1.09) patch globals, namely a few more entries in your version and the unit heal speeds a different.

The Lost Wonders mod is simple to add in. I think maybe 1 or 2 files are shares. The rest simply can be moved into this mod or another without a hassle. The Lost Units mod requires some work, but it isn't overly hard. SuperCiv would be a nightmare unless you started with SuperCiv and added this mod to that, which is how I did it, mostly. Start with the biggest and add the gameplay changes to that.

Dearmad, I wonder if anyone else has this problem or why it is happening but your new version does not work for me.

I load civ, load the mod, the game restarts, and the loading bar comes up. In the middle of the process it gives me an error message (some module failed to load, I will try again and edit post with actual message) then civ4 comes back up with your mod loaded. When I start a game I have no user interface although the map generates normally. I tried this several times and the same thing happened each time, although other mods like the realism mod work perfectly.

civlicious:
download the mod again. There may have been a problem if you snagged it at juuust the right time.

Also if you have other mods (pthyon ones) in the mod folder they may not be playing nice.

leonpoi:
THANKS! I'll go over that part again. It's a ***** to change as you have change the entries for EACH building type... the jungle thing should be IRONWORKING for roads, GUNPOWDER to get stuff like bananas, and such, and STEAMPOWER for just plain old clearing it away...

Do you know how most people in this world clear jungles?

FIRE...:mischief:

no coal needed thank you

Hi, there!
First of all, i want to thank you for a great work :)

Some notes.
1. What do you think about adding Actual Quotes Diplomacy (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=146310) mod? I guess, it will be nice addition, cause it doesnt change balance at all.

2. Tiny omission. Civilopedia, part "Game Concepts", topic Victory. It states, that culture victory can be achieved when 3 cities accomplish 50K culture. I guess, there should be 65K.

3. In 0.7 i had some oddity with clearing jungles. I've researched machinery, but not biology. My worker in jungle squares can build mines (remove jungle), but not windmill (tooltip said, that i need biology). But after completing mine, i'll get access to windmill in this square. Is it ok? If not, i'll check it in 0.8 (installed it only yesterday).

Thank you, again.

Sorry if I missed it but could this mod be combined with the lost unit mod? I really like both mods and having a hard time to pick one to play but lost unit mod often end up winning just becuz it ades more deepth in the end game.

@Dearmad
I've gone through most of the xml files and changed the gunpowder/steel requirements back to what I thought you meant - and it works really well. I like the feeling of jungles staying around and it makes the deforestation of the map occur over time.

I'm almost finished a standard game and like the pacing alot. Had some wars and unlike normal games didn't start with swords and end with tanks.

Three little suggestions, and ones that I have changed myself for my own game.
1. I've changed uranium discovery back to physics, I like the feeling of trying to obtain the sources of uranium before fusion kicks in.
2. bunker and bomb shelter should be swapped (the nuke one was in refrig, I think you mixed them up)
3. Christian missionaries shouldn't ignore closed borders. I've kept their spread at 110% and move at 3, I think that is enough.

Whatever the case I think the mod makes a few good changes and one nice thing about it is that the final user can easily change things that they prefer anyway, and capatalise on your good work.

This is what I get when trying to load the mod either via preferences or ingame:

---------------------------
ERROR
---------------------------
Failed to load python module CvEventInterface.
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
---------------------------
XML Load Error
---------------------------
Failed Loading XML file XML\Units/CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml.
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
---------------------------
XML Load Error
---------------------------
LoadXML call failed for GameInfo/CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml.
Current XML file is: GameInfo/CIV4EraInfos.xml
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
---------------------------
XML Load Error
---------------------------
LoadXML call failed for GameInfo/CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml.
Current XML file is: GameInfo/CIV4EraInfos.xml
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
---------------------------
XML Error
---------------------------
Tag: UNITCLASS_ARTIST in Info class was incorrect
Current XML file is: GameInfo/CIV4SpecialistInfos.xml
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
---------------------------
XML Error
---------------------------
Tag: UNITCLASS_SCIENTIST in Info class was incorrect
Current XML file is: GameInfo/CIV4SpecialistInfos.xml
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
---------------------------
XML Error
---------------------------
Tag: UNITCLASS_MERCHANT in Info class was incorrect
Current XML file is: GameInfo/CIV4SpecialistInfos.xml
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
---------------------------
XML Error
---------------------------
Tag: UNITCLASS_ENGINEER in Info class was incorrect
Current XML file is: GameInfo/CIV4SpecialistInfos.xml
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
---------------------------
XML Error
---------------------------
Tag: UNITCLASS_SETTLER in Info class was incorrect
Current XML file is: GameInfo/CIV4GoodyInfo.xml
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
---------------------------
XML Error
---------------------------
Tag: UNITCLASS_TAOIST_MISSIONARY in Info class was incorrect
Current XML file is: GameInfo/CIV4ReligionInfo.xml
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

It goes on like that for a while...my comp. has xml files set to open with notepad, could that be the problem?

Ah nevermind. I installed the mod in C:\...\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Mods instead of C:\...\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\MODS.

Why the hell are there two directories anyway? Weird stuff. Anyway it works great now, thanks again!

I've been playing with this mod a lot lately, and I have to say the balancing is not very good.
Cities are often FORCED to create military units since they have nothing else to build nor the option to build wealth/etc.

It just feels weird.
I had 2 cities pumping out longbowmen at one every turn for about 25 turns because there was simply no other option.

you should move the 'create wealth' to one of the starting techs and make units cost a bit more, I think.

Also, tech trading should be moved back in the tech tree.
not being able to trade for basic techs except for in the long, long run makes you have to research them, which isn't in itself that bad, but it affects the pacing of the game and limits the choices the player has in research, since leaving most of these techs until guilds is suicide.

jungle clearing should be moved a little back (I thought this mod is about what helps the AI to make a better game, not about historial accuracy).


Hm..
That's everything that I think is wrong, basically.
It's a great mod, I still use it, but the first issue I wrote was driving me nuts

I know what you mean about creating units because you can do nothing else, that's a problem. Moving back the tech trading is pretty easy to do yourself, just search through the xmls and change the required tech. The tech tree and civopedia sort themselves out automatically.
I've made improvments possible with iron but forest clearing on steam - no good reason really. It's pretty easy to do, just remember to clear your cache.

I've been playing with this mod a lot lately, and I have to say the balancing is not very good.
Cities are often FORCED to create military units since they have nothing else to build nor the option to build wealth/etc.

It just feels weird.
I had 2 cities pumping out longbowmen at one every turn for about 25 turns because there was simply no other option.

you should move the 'create wealth' to one of the starting techs and make units cost a bit more, I think.

Also, tech trading should be moved back in the tech tree.
not being able to trade for basic techs except for in the long, long run makes you have to research them, which isn't in itself that bad, but it affects the pacing of the game and limits the choices the player has in research, since leaving most of these techs until guilds is suicide.

jungle clearing should be moved a little back (I thought this mod is about what helps the AI to make a better game, not about historial accuracy).


Hm..
That's everything that I think is wrong, basically.
It's a great mod, I still use it, but the first issue I wrote was driving me nuts

This sounds like you're playing an EPIC game... 25 turns? Hm. I make no promises regarding epic games as games running cloe to 900 turns are beyond my scope of ability to understand (though I mathematically porportion the balance numbers for it, much as Firaxis did).

In Normal paced games I've yet to run into being forced to create units, so some of it may come down to play style. I don't know. I tend to build very few military units at all. Usually less than 3 per city...

Anyway, v0.8b is being uploaded. Lengthens Epic game (per many requests, though as I say I don't get the attraction), fixed Jungle clear to match readme, and increased SS parts cost (per the 1.09 patch)

Awesome, I love this mod and I needs me that longer Epic game :)

You may not get the attraction, but it's all about getting emotionally invested into your Civilization. I don't want to be able to feel as though I can just "turn off this one and start a new one", I want to be ANGRY if the AI tries to screw with me. I want to put in enough work that any loss is painful. Makes you fight and play better, far more invested.

Thanks for this mod, this is great stuff so far. I definitely echo the call for the lost units mod to be bundled in, if you get bored.

I was playing on normal, and its not that I wanted to create a ton of units, its that I couldn't create anything else and unless you have the tech can create wealth/science/culture, you HAVE to build units.

Its less of a problem when playing on epic actually.
I made a few modifications to this mod and now its more to my taste :)
moved tech trading back to mathematics, increased unit cost back to 100%, made research in epic slightly more expensive, brought jungle clearing back a bit.. hm. works for me.

I can't find where you set the tech that creates wealth/etc, nor do I understand the whole turn increment thing, so I couldn't change those :/

i made it so wealth could be built really early, instructions for it are here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141716

Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All these mods sound great, but what does the AI do with them in single player? It's great that I could potentially "build" wealth earlier instead of units, but I would suspect that the AI has no concept of this and as such this mod unbalances the rules between human player and AI.

Am I off-base on this or has there been some accounting for this as part of the mod?

-cc

bdemz:
huh?

cautious chaos:
what i've done to address the feeling of having to build unit after unit by increasing the cost of buildings to more closely match the tech cost in the gamespeed xml. I think I did this in v0.8b. This will have some other far reaching effects in that cities won't develop as fast, slowing tech down a little bit more, economy slower too , but these will be tiny effects. The MAIN effect will be that there will be a building to be built in a city more often.

balancing this is very tricky, as little changes haveprofound effects over the course of a long game...

Dearmad,

So those types of changes should be fairly transparent to the AI in that all you are doing is changing the pace of the game. It doesn't necessarily mean that a player's (AI or human) approach would require alteration in order to win. It just means that everyone gets to savor a little more the various time periods in the game. You in effect will spend more time using longbowmen as musketmen are not necessarily right around the corner, like they are today.

My concern would be in adding in units or technologies or new build orders and how the AI reacts. If the AI is cognizant of only building unit after unit (because that's the core engine of the game), then a mod comes along to add a build order for "wealth" earlier in the game, will the AI be savvy enough to take advantage of this?

-cc

the ai will already build wealth at the end of the game if there are no buildings or units it wants to build, i dont have a spy academy in the early game though so im not sure if it does the same thing in the early game. But my guess is that it does use wealth in the early game just like it does at end game.

Hey Dearmad.
thanks for the mod. I have been playing with this for quite a while now. With the latest download the F1 screen list of cities is messed up. Is anyone else having this problem?

I love the jungles sticking around for such a long time. I am going to try and edit how long it takes to clear forests as well. It just seems too quick to clear them for me. Is there a way to make it take longer to clear forests until machinery becomes available?

Also you cannot get rice out of the jungles until medicine. Due to the farm needing to clear the jungle spaces. Could you tweak that as well? I think getting rice out of a jungle shouldn't need to wait any longer than the other resources.

I mentioned that the F1 screen was screwed a few pages ago. The domestic advisor python file is busted. Either remove it to have standard civ F1 or download an improved version from this site, maybe the special or otherwise some other improved domestic advisors. That's what I've done and it's sweet.

Yeah updated version of the DOM. advisor was needed.

Just letting you know that i am looking forward to the v1.52 compability mod. Great work, truly enjoying it.

Yeah, hoping that update comes soon. Great work Dearmad. Best mod for civ IV. Keep up the good work.

Me too! Tried to play a vanilla game after the patch and was just like.. bleh!

Love this mod 8-)

I have installed both 1.09 and 1.52 and text will not appear in most parts of the game. I copied the mod into the civ4 directory in the mod folder. Then I extracted it there and the same problem. Was the mod not supposed to work with one of the patches?

I have installed both 1.09 and 1.52 and text will not appear in most parts of the game. I copied the mod into the civ4 directory in the mod folder. Then I extracted it there and the same problem. Was the mod not supposed to work with one of the patches?


Yeah, me too. What gives? I was working on my own mod and now it has the same problem.

Cheers,
Sword

Is the mod compatible with 1.09?

Whenever i hit advanced and load up the mod it restarts Civ4 with no text on the menus. So i cant even see the "play game" , "multiplayer game" etc,, options but the arrows still sort of blink where the text should be. What is causing this?

The mod worked fine for me until i updated the patch...

I am also experience problem after upgrading my game to the version 1.52.
When the game restarts after selecting the mod - all menu texts became invisible. With older vesions it worked fine.

Updated mod and renamed it (since I had to completely rewrite it). It now works with 1.52 patch, and I introduced a few other changes that further increased the fun for me.

Read the FIRST post in this thread and d/l it from there.

Woot! Thanks for the updates, now I can play civ4 again hehe...

Another update. Gleened through some other mods and found a few little changes I liked- some of them I adapted or modified to better work with my mod. Most are minor changes laods of people are doing, but a few are noted with a credit (like the desert/arctic warfare promo).

v1.1 on the front page now.

great, love your work

if someone could merge this with true prophets and settler religion mods i would be a happy man... for awhile at least!

i gave it a go but i just dont have the computer skills

This MOD is now updated for v1.61 patch of CIV IV. I've tested it, but not as thoroughly as I usually do, so report in with problems. Try to isolate and prove them first, though, as I don't have tons of time right now to make changes and invetigate general reports like: "SOmething's wrong with the trees."

Enjoy.

Oh, it works with EPIC games too, but I really fine tune it for NORMAL- which now plays like EPIC SHOULD have originally, IMO.

Can mods such as this play on the huge earth 180x67 maps made by switches or aeric67, or does it come with a huge real earth map of its own?

I would think if you want to play on a map it should work fine. I modded the game, not maps.

And no, I didn't include any special maps with this mod- just xmls, and a tiny few graphics.

i just wanted to say thanks, cause this is my favorite mod. not a lot of changes, but in the right places.

are you still working on it? if so, what direction do you want to take it? is there an easy way to integrate it with cIV gold?

Thanks for enjoying it!

Integrate with CIV gold? I've been lost in grad school... is there a new version of Civ IV? I updated this mod for the latest patch and imagine it works with the latest versions available by retail. Tell me more and I may be able to help you.

As for the future: no real huge changes, the few things I'm still unsatisfied with are:

1: Religion is too vanilla... and just plays as an advantage and diplomatic friction between nations... I want it to be more meaningful, but I'm not sure how I want to do this... no mod out there i've seen does what Iwould want.

2: Minor adjustments to the pacing as I encounter things that could be tweaked... as it is the balance is pretty delicately done, so I don't imagine many changes here.

3: Continue to monitor the government options to ensure that there are at least a few tempting reasons to be a monarchy or communist country late in the game... so far I think this is reasonably balanced.

4: Update it when the xpack comes out.

If you have input or things that could be added, let me know. Keep in mind the spirit of the mod isn't to make huge changes, add loads of meaningless units/techs/nations, but rather to add some flavor to each age, allow some time to be spent in each age, increase the challenge to the human without breaking the AI.

Ok, a minor update but worth the d/l if you're using v1.2. Check out the front page to d/l it!

Fixed the techsplash problem.

One little detail: you SHOULD be able to implement this update in your current savegames without a problem. So going from v1.2 to 1.3a will not matter to your game.

Let me know if there are any problems.

Hi All,

I'm new to the Civ Fan Center and have a question about playing this mod. I have unzipped New Balance v1.3a and created a new folder in

CivIV/Mods/New Balance

After load a mod the game restarts and in the upper right corner it shows New Balance v1[1].3a but when I start a new game (single player - play now ) none of the features of the mod New Balance v1[1].3a seems to be working. Do I do something wrong? Please advise!

Thankx
1449

How do you know none of the features are working? What specifically tells you so.

Also, try deleting the contents of the folder: civ4\cache\

not the actual folder but every file in it, then restart the game.

Hey Dearmad, just wanted to let you know that I recently had a chance to play with this mod and it's great. I like a lot of the tech changes you did, many make so much sense it's a wonder they weren't in the original game. :) Especially I like the civics changes, finally there's actually a reason to switch under different circumstances (in vanilla I pretty much have my favorite choice for each civic and as soon as I get it I rarely change it :)).
One thing to note here, and forgive me if I'm mistaken 'cause I don't have civ4 in front of me right now, but I don't think you changed the Bureaucracy civic (or whichever one gives 50% hammer/gold bonus to capital), and it feels a bit lackluster in comparison to the other civics.

Huh. I'll look at it today and see how they all play out again.

Glad you like the mod. :)

Really a great mod ! I enjoy playing it ! :goodjob:

However, I met two problems on the last version :
- I was never able to build the Eiffel Tower in none of my cities... And finally, another one built it very late... :( (The wonder appeared in grey in the building list)
- I tried to consummed a great person to discover the nuclear fission. The guy disappeared but I didn't get my new techno ! I had to discover it in the usual way :mad: (btw I'm not sure that this is not a problem from the vanilla game...)

You took out the biggest laugh in the game, for me anyway. I love having to invent bureaucracy to get paper!

Really a great mod ! I enjoy playing it ! :goodjob:

However, I met two problems on the last version :
- I was never able to build the Eiffel Tower in none of my cities... And finally, another one built it very late... :( (The wonder appeared in grey in the building list)
- I tried to consummed a great person to discover the nuclear fission. The guy disappeared but I didn't get my new techno ! I had to discover it in the usual way :mad: (btw I'm not sure that this is not a problem from the vanilla game...)

Eiffel tower:
Not a bug I've run in to. I