Special Note: Unlike some of the other groups, I encourage the opposition to post thoughtful comments that would debate our viewpoints IN THIS THREAD. The communist forum is open for all and I have faith that we can either successfully debate our idea or realize that its not a debatable idea at all and can only really be determined by oppinion.

First and foremost, the Communist Party of Civ4 demogame will NOT be using the actual definition of communism. Being that I am fairly well acquanted with actual communist idealists I know that I am incorrectly using the term. But I have decided that the Communist name has many meanings, some of which are antonyms. A civ4 communist is not a communist in the sense of Russian Fascist; communist in the sense of Chinese Capitalist Fascist Communist (lol); communist in the sense of Poor Islander Cuban Communist ;Vietnam rebel torturer communist; or even Laos "We're not communists, we just employ communist policy in every aspect of government" communist. The Civilization 4 communist party is simply a new definition of communism based on the fact that it was the word that I felt best described the ideals of my party (although it has so many conflicting definitions) So after that whole introduction, you will now see what a Civ4 communist stands for. After all, we are changing history? Why not change the communist manifesto while we're at it?

The Communist Manifesto

1. We agree that this manifesto represents the general oppinion of the civ4 communists.

2. We believe that Workers are one of the most important units in the game.

3. We believe in industrializing our land by building roads and improvements everywhere, and early.

4. We believe in Economics not war, domestic improvement is more important then expansion when free land is gone.

5. We agree that wars should only be fought defensively (Or in the defense of another nation)

6. We agree that trade and friendly relations should be strived for in all situations and we will not support a war for our personal gain.

7. We believe in building more buildings, wonders and workers then military units.

8. Colonization of lands not of our continent is NOT a priority and only spots of valuable rescources should be colonized.

9. Agressive action goes against domestic improvement.

10. Open Borders are good.

11. Trading is good.

12. Attaining Self Sufficiency is not necessary (And would hold us back economically)

13. Slavery is bad and unnecessary.

14. Emancipation, Representation, Free Speech, Free Market, Environmentalism, and Pacifism are good.

15. Police State, Mercantilism, Vassalage, and Nationhood are bad.

16. Peace and Prosperity for all.

Having written my own personal CIV4 Communist Manifesto I would like to implore all peaceloving industialists to join my communist movement. Thats the entire point of the manifesto, is to represent a party for Peaceloving Industrialists. I spent 20 minutes pondering a name that could represent that Idea and not sound idiotic. For awhile I was going for the "Quaker Industrialists" but the religious affiliation, although passive, was determined to be a bad idea. I was going to do the Pacifist Industrialists but I didn't like it. So I eventually picked Communist, based on my peaceloving communist friends :P Anyway, I kept seeing all of these imperialist parties appearing and no one represented my side, so I created my side myself. That must sound strange. Well I'm a strange person. So if you love peace and business, join the commies, if not, I will be a one man party :P

A list of Imperialistic influenced Citizen Groups:
The ENCERLS (Renamed the DP)
The NPUS
The IIP
The Sparta Group

A list of Industrial Pacifist influenced Citizen Groups:
The CIV4 CP (Communist Party)

A list of Comrades:
Nomad Bryce
Donovan Zoi
koondrad
mhcarver
Illini Rule
CaliSurfer
schardiego
Phantom Lord

Ugh, I finally have a party to express my anti expansionist views! Make money not war. And not money off war. No blood money for me. I really hope there are some Civ4 commies to join me!

Hmm... there might be a lack of interest due to the title.
I may be interested in joining, but do you not think State Property is an option at all?

I will not join, but would also likje to say that this is the Anti-Communist party. And seems to go against many of the views of communism

Honorable Nomad Bryce,

What's in a name? And what is to be said of those who cannot see beyond their own world view? Members of our fledgling nation can prove nothing pertaining to the definition of Communism in other worlds, so as far as I can see, this Communist Party is aptly named and is a legitimate operation.

That said, I humbly request membership to your party. We will need the forthrightness of many to stave off the desires of those who wish to meet our destiny strictly "by the numbers." Let us take the honorable route, and may all of our dealings be true!

Behold the age of idealism, embodied in the first great party of our tribe! May others who find their way here see beyond their misconceptions and join us in our noble pursuits!

I pledge my allegiance to the Communist Party of [yet to be named]!


Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi
Idealistic Rogue

communists favor economy, in one of the prominent ideas of communism that most communists can agree on, the people who control the economy control the government. As a Civ4 commie, I believe that we should strive for the biggest income possible for buildings and science. But state property does not really help the economy. Most communist states have tried state property and found that it does not accomplish the desired goals. Therefor I personally have no oppinion on the state property civic. Free Market will be a much more favored choice for a communist party.

Donovan Zoi, together we will work as a counter to the imperialists. I am very glad to have you onboard! This party is a reaction to the forming of numerous imperialistic parties. I waited for 3 days for a group to join that was anti-imperialist, but when none came I decided it was time for someone to step up in opposition.

I waited for 3 days for a group to join that was anti-imperialist, but when none came I decided it was time for someone to step up in opposition.

It's great to have your own party, but you should not see yourself as the antithesis of any group(s) and define yourself as anti something. You should see your group as for something.

I do say that that I resent my group being singled out; The IIP is the most peaceful of the Imperial groups out there. Also you could have join IIP as we welcome everone even those who disagree. Our Basileus favors dissent as a means to further discussion.

Also we only believe in going to war should we fail in our quest, for our goals, in science or building.
-KL

When I say anti-imperial I mean a group for pacifism and internal improvement, not external expansion.

Fair enough, I misunderstood.
-KL

Comrade Nomad Bryce,

may I join your party?

lol koondrad, I just wrote you a pm asking if you wanted to or not :P I guess thats a yes.

Yeah, thanks man.

I'll post some ideas for the party tomorrow.

I will not join, but would also likje to say that this is the Anti-Communist party. And seems to go against many of the views of communism

Actually, it is far closer to real Communism than anything that has been tried in real life. The problem is that places like China do not subscribe to Marx's or even Lenin's philosophies.

I'm not sure whether I would like to join, but I will consider it.

By the way, it seems odd that the leader of the Communist Party and the leader of the National Religious Organisation should be the same person...

By the way, it seems odd that the leader of the Communist Party and the leader of the National Religious Organisation should be the same person...

Yes I recognize actual communist philosophy to disenfranchise religion. I myself am a devout Won Buddhist and attend 6 hours of temple a week, not including at home meditation. But as a very spiritual person I am also very pro-religuous freedom (in real life of course) and enjoy the company of many atheist friends and their philosophies. That being said, I would like to seperate the two. My position in the NRO is not a leadership position, I just edit the member list and such. As for the communist party, I may be an extremely pro Industrial Pacifist and activist, but this is more of a union of similar thinking philosophers. So I'm not really the leader of either.

Okay. I didn't really mean it as "you shouldn't be allowed to do that" or anything. I just thought it was funny. :p

A list of Imperialistic influenced Citizen Groups:
The ENCERLS (Renamed the DP)
The NPUS
The IIP
The Sparta Group

:woohoo: My group my your list. Is this list anything like Stalin's list of people to dissapear?

:cry: Why's my group on the bottom?
-KL:mischief:

No, this is nothing like this so called stalin's list. It is to show, for those of us pacifists, the alarming rate at which the opposite philosophy is propagating. It is like stating the amount of nucleur nations. It is a warning.

Originally Posted by Nomad Bryce
A list of Imperialistic influenced Citizen Groups:
The ENCERLS (Renamed the DP)
The NPUS
The IIP
The Sparta Group


I will note that the NPUS has a neutral point on imperialism upon others, but is strongly against imperialism on us. We seek favorable circumstances in all our dealings, but we will not necessarly use that to impose our will on others. We are neither pro-imperialism nor against it, though we share alot of points in comon with the imperialist party.

Also, you said self-suffiency was bad? It does not mean that my party wants to reach a state of self-sufficiency to cut all trades, but to put us in better positions to make deals, or to better survive trade embargos.

I would like to Join this organization

Woah, where did the avatars come from?

Right well, as we get some more members we'll have to organise the party a bit.

So any suggestions for the sort of model we should follow?

Yes, I think we should follow the model of the NRO, where all members are equal and the changing of the manifesto is based on voting.

I suggest a name change - perhaps the Marxists? That might more accuratly reflect your views?

Not interested in joining, I have my hands full with the MOO, although I appreciate your support of workers. More pastures is good :D

Yes, I think we should follow the model of the NRO, where all members are equal and the changing of the manifesto is based on voting.



Is this what you mean?


The NRO is to be a purely democratic citizen group and no leader or group of leaders will make changes to the principles.

6. The principles of the NRO may not be edited until there are at least 5 members of the organization.

7. To edit the principles, a member must post all requested changes and get 1/2 (rounded up) of the members to support the call for editing. If the required number of members support the call, a vote will be placed on wether or not to bring the changes into effect, and if 2/3 of the NRO body vote for the changes they will be put into place and these principles will be changed as suggested.


That seems fair to me. Also, there was a rule about members being removed if they were inactive for two weeks to stop the votes being inconclusive which I think we should implement if we plan to have a lot of votes.

I suggest a name change - perhaps the Marxists? That might more accuratly reflect your views?

Not interested in joining, I have my hands full with the MOO, although I appreciate your support of workers. More pastures is good :D

Hell no! The use of the word 'communist' is almost acceptable when you consider all the deformations and misusages it suffered, marxism should not be tainted by this. This has nothing to do with the words of Karl Marx. Keep the name it currently has or pick a new un-related one... nor Marxist...

Hell no! The use of the word 'communist' is almost acceptable when you consider all the deformations and misusages it suffered, marxism should not be tainted by this. This has nothing to do with the words of Karl Marx. Keep the name it currently has or pick a new un-related one... nor Marxist...

Don't worry, as far as I know the name's not going to get changed.

it would have surprised me, but i felt the need to say it anyways.

No need to be so harsh armed maniac. You make it sound like our party has tainted views, we have our own views, and nothing makes them a taint. I recognize that this is different then marxism and I have no plans on changing the name but you make us sound dirty.

Koondrad thats exactly what I mean. Perhaps, with everyones agreeing, I should edit that into the manifesto.

indeed, but ideologies can be as touchy as religions...

Comrades! The largest of the imperial parties, the IIP, outnumbers us in membership by at least 4 imperialists for every comrade! We should discuss the causes of our lack of membership and figure out a way to convince more people in our direction. I was already thinking that one problem with convincing people early on is that they may mistake us for not be land grabbers in the beggining? Obviously any good civ must expand quickly in the beggining. I figure once we have set borders touching our neighbors and our mainland Nation is secure, we will gain more followers, but early membership is still lower then it could possibly be. We must begin discussing how to gain support.

Comrade Bryce

As a fellow socialist, I feel it is my duty to sign up.

Comrade Tboy.

Comrade Tboy, glad to have you.
Comrade Bryce, may I suggest that we all link to this thread in our sigs and then post in the greater forums.

Question: Does military buildings extend to defensive buildings, e.g. walls and such? I believe these should be exempt from the military buildings, as without them other, more imperialistic-minded civilizations may attack and rule us.

Comrade Tboy.

Another point: due the Cold war, some people might associate 'communist' with 'dictatorship, expansion, oppression'. We should help dispel this myth and in turn gain more members.

Comrade Tboy

Just edited my sig to get more members.

Comrade Tboy.

Question: Does military buildings extend to defensive buildings, e.g. walls and such? I believe these should be exempt from the military buildings, as without them other, more imperialistic-minded civilizations may attack and rule us.

Comrade Tboy.

Walls are not a harmful building, but economic and cultural buildings should really be put first UNLESS a sitaution is dangerous or a position is key. There are circumstances where building a wall would be useful, but economy=technology and technology=better defense. Therefore I advacate using a strong economy to achieve tech supremecy which would let us use non-veteran units that are superior to even the most veteren of the hostile civ's units.

Perhaps if we call it the Democratic Communist Party, or something to that effect, it will make it more obvious that there are no dictatorships here.

Walls are not a harmful building, but economic and cultural buildings should really be put first UNLESS a sitaution is dangerous or a position is key. There are circumstances where building a wall would be useful, but economy=technology and technology=better defense. Therefore I advacate using a strong economy to achieve tech supremecy which would let us use non-veteran units that are superior to even the most veteren of the hostile civ's units.

In this I must disagree with you. I believe you are underestimating the power of multiple promotions in this game. A unit with City Raider has a 20% bonus when attacking cities, a fully upgraded one with City Rader III has a 75% bonus. That's not including any other bonuses it might have thus just having a more advanced unit is not a guarantee that you'll win a battle. However if you have a barracks and build a defensive unit you can give it the City Garrison I promotion which confers a 20% city defense bonus on it. Barracks are necessary in the early years since the cities are venerable to barbarians and you never know when they'll show up.

-the Wolf

May the comrades let me join thier Glorious Revolution??...but one question... is this group used for something??...online gaming??
Thanks,
Comrade D

Due to change of view, I am respectively withdrawing my membership from this party and joining the inlightened imperialist party.

Ex-Comrade Tboy.

"14. Military improvements are unnecessary"

Admitedly, this does seem like a very bad idea as it will leave our Civ open to a large invasion, as often, even with diplomacy, wars are unavoidable.

Tboy - Maybe if you stayed you could steer the party in a way that you favour.

koondrad, you are right, someone will try and bully us eventually. I have removed that part of the manifesto. It is alright, if he changed his mind we should let him go. No offense to him, but I prefer your company =]

Can I join? My city is SidsCommunistState.

Never Mind!

koondrad, you are right, someone will try and bully us eventually. I have removed that part of the manifesto. It is alright, if he changed his mind we should let him go. No offense to him, but I prefer your company =]

Cheers man. I see Tboy has started his own party with a manifesto similar to ours. :crazyeye:

Hello, just checking up.
koondrad, obviously some aspects will be similar, because its socialist. There are many differences though, for example our less anti-military stance.

We're quite prepared to go to war actually, if it is nessicary. Read the manifesto again. Maybe not in an expansionistic, land stealing way, but yes if it is in the defense of an ally, etc, we are ready for war.

Im in. We should stay small and humble unless attacked. Then we should show our agression

Yes, but we would be willing to do it in an expansionist way IF they are under a cruel regime (e.g. slavery).

I'd like to join this party. I'm a crazy surfer. :crazyeye: The hippies have make had make love not war, and we have build buildings not soldiers.

-high surfer

I would like to call a party meeting to discuss certain aspects of the party in open forum. I would like us to use an AIM chatroom for the discussion. I would like to formally schedule the meeting for 10:00pm eastern USA time on this Saturday. I realize that koondrad is not of the timezones near my location and it is likely this time will change simply because he is such a key and active member of the communist party. I would like everyone who desires a role in the decisions of this party to PM me their AIM screennames. (If you don't have Aim already, I reccomend the free download of this convenient communication system) Thank you very much,

Comrade Bryce.

I would like to call a party meeting to discuss certain aspects of the party in open forum. I would like us to use an AIM chatroom for the discussion. I would like to formally schedule the meeting for 10:00pm eastern USA time on this Saturday. I realize that koondrad is not of the timezones near my location and it is likely this time will change simply because he is such a key and active member of the communist party. I would like everyone who desires a role in the decisions of this party to PM me their AIM screennames. (If you don't have Aim already, I reccomend the free download of this convenient communication system) Thank you very much,

Comrade Bryce.


Comrade Bryce,
EST is - 6 hours?

Comrade Bryce,
EST is - 6 hours?

Since he's offline I'll answer: No EST is -5, CST (Where I live ;)) is -6.

-the Wolf

Thanks,

Google beat you to it though. :p

Thanks,

Google beat you to it though. :p

I shall annex Google for this insult. :devil: :lol:

The new time shall be 5pm EST, or East USA timezone, on this Saturday. This way we can better accomodate members by getting americans in the afternoon and europeans in the evening.

Comrade Bryce,
that's great thanks. Check your PMs for my AIM name. I had to download it as normally I use MSN.

Which saturday are we talking about??
the 19th??

yes, we are talking about Saturday the 19th.

Which saturday are we talking about??
the 19th??

schardiego,
are you in the party?
I think Comrade Bryce may have forgotten to add your name to the list.

i would like to join....is it ok??

Koonrad....I still dont have Civ 4 but im going to get it....what is this group used for??

For the game of Democracy. Basically, a group of people like ourselves, organise ourselves into a 'Government' and play one big game of CIV4, with everyone voting and giving input as to how we should go about the game. There are elections for different offices etc.

do u have a msn??

and in the big Civ 4 game...only people from our party will play or people from other parties??

I didn't forget to add you, I just wasn't sure wether you were joining or not. Sorry :P

and in the big Civ 4 game...only people from our party will play or people from other parties??

everyone on the citizen registry will have imput, but only the elected leader at the time will actually play the game.


Comrade Bryce - CHECK YOUR PMs!!!

The meeting happened as planned. Very poor attendance, but many issues discussed none the less.

This is a bit disconcering, the very next post after mine talked about the chat and then the next time I come on I find out the chat happened the day before. Could someone PM me the details, thanks?

I believe another chat should occur anytime soon?? Normad Bryce choose an apropiate date

The party is being reworked a bit at the moment so it could be a while before there is another chat.

The party is being reworked a bit at the moment so it could be a while before there is another chat.

I apologize for my recent absence from the party. I would like to assure you that I am still an active member, and would like to be kept informed of any "rework" to the party structure.

Comrade Donovan Zoi,

the party is being reworked in such a way as that the name, etc, accurately reflect the views. A new constitution is also being written that will clarify many things. We think that there is possibly a stigma attached to the name 'Communist' that is preventing people from joining.

I agree that a name change might be in order. The name doesn't have to be affiliated with a particular political philosophy, how about naming ourselves after an animal? I like the Doves, myself.

The IIp has an animal Mascot, I think that this is a good idea and that we should have one to.

Although I'm not interested in becoming a member, to assist you with your potential name change, this "Communist Party" promotes values roughly equal to that of Utopian Socialism. ;)

Wow, I have been very very busy lately, but I still do check the forums at least once a day (sometimes twice). Koondrad and I are very slowly creating an improved version of this party. Stay tuned.

Much Compassion, Comrade Bryce

Comrade Bryce,

please contact me to arrange another AIM chat as I think it would be benificial.

Tortsky must be turning in his grave. lol. All well and good, I have often argued with people about the nature of communism when they say it's evil because of what happened under Stalin and Mao. I argue that Marx intended communism to only be an economic model. Fair enough. But I have to agree with I Am The Future - you can't have free market under communism. That's as ridiculous as the NEP was. It's State Property or nothing in my view. Besides, if you want the interests of the workers at heart, then State Property provides extra food. All you seem to be offering is watered down bourgeois socialism, the kind that Tony Blair and New Labour have marketed to the upper middle classes of Britain so successfuly. And I shall now impersonate Karl Marx as I say 'tut, tut, tut vor zhaaaaaame!'

Good luck though, anyway, I suppose you are still a mild improvement on some other groupings.

Tortsky Who? ;) It's State Property or nothing in my view. We're quite happy to use State Property. All you seem to be offering is watered down bourgeois socialism, the kind that Tony Blair and New Labour have marketed to the upper middle classes of Britain so successfuly. Emm... no. As has been discussed, the manifesto is being rewritten to read more accurately.

Good luck though, anyway, I suppose you are still a mild improvement on some other groupings.

Cheers. :p

Tortsky

Do you mean Trotsky by any chance?

-the Wolf

I'm just curious, is our party going anywhere?

Currently it's in a transitional stage and Comrade Bryce is very busy at the moment so for now we're in limbo.

Hi!
I´m completely new to the demo-game but I have read through almost everything in this forum. As I usually play peaceful builder I share most of the viewpoints in your manifest and would like to join the party.

Work load has been very high, I am a very active person in my normal life. With my work load reaching a climax as teachers push to finish an agenda before break, I will remain inactive on the site. This said, I plan to have all revisions, with Koondrad, done by New Years. So anyway, signing off, comrade Bryce.

Welcome back and Good bye Nomad Bryce. Hope you come back soon. ;)

Check you PMs

-the Wolf

Thanks for letting me in comrade Nomad Bryce

Comrades, I would like to join! :goodjob:

Long live the revolution!

Dear Comrades, I have been nominated as Minister of Culture. Although I would prefer to hold the position of Minister of Interior to ensure that our economy is built correctly, I have accepted the previous nomination and would hope that my fellow comrades would support my bid for the seat. This said, we also need an economy master in the Ministry of Science, so I plan to nominate Koondrad for the position. Anyway, please support me and dont forget to vote!

Just so you know, I will be absent from the 27th to the 29th of this month. I'll accept a nomination though.

Am I the only one who has ever studied Marx? According to Marx the only way to true communism is to wait it out! Capitalism is an essential phase according to him, despite it's evils. In time capitalism will destroy itself, the state will wither away and we will all live in a communist utopia. Not a single "communist" country has ever had very much in common with poor Marx and Engels...probably because what I said above frustrated them so much!

Furthermore, the term communism is incorectly used to describe countries such as the USSR and in modern days China. These countries actually practice a system which we in the political science call "State Socialism".

Am I the only one who has ever studied Marx? According to Marx the only way to true communism is to wait it out! Capitalism is an essential phase according to him, despite it's evils. In time capitalism will destroy itself, the state will wither away and we will all live in a communist utopia. Not a single "communist" country has ever had very much in common with poor Marx and Engels...probably because what I said above frustrated them so much!

Furthermore, the term communism is incorectly used to describe countries such as the USSR and in modern days China. These countries actually practice a system which we in the political science call "State Socialism".

I believe that Nomad Bryce is planning on changing the name of this party, he just hasn't decided on a name yet.

-the Wolf

Nothing wrong with calling the party Communist. You might also try Marxist or Socialist.

Am I the only one who has ever studied Marx? According to Marx the only way to true communism is to wait it out! Capitalism is an essential phase according to him, despite it's evils. In time capitalism will destroy itself, the state will wither away and we will all live in a communist utopia. Not a single "communist" country has ever had very much in common with poor Marx and Engels...probably because what I said above frustrated them so much!

Furthermore, the term communism is incorectly used to describe countries such as the USSR and in modern days China. These countries actually practice a system which we in the political science call "State Socialism".

I have studied Marx too. :goodjob:

Am I the only one who has ever studied Marx? According to Marx the only way to true communism is to wait it out! Capitalism is an essential phase according to him, despite it's evils. In time capitalism will destroy itself, the state will wither away and we will all live in a communist utopia. Not a single "communist" country has ever had very much in common with poor Marx and Engels...probably because what I said above frustrated them so much!

Furthermore, the term communism is incorectly used to describe countries such as the USSR and in modern days China. These countries actually practice a system which we in the political science call "State Socialism".

That's great and all, but this party is for a game. This isn't RL. Civ4 doesn't have the ability to, nor does it intend to, replicate the economic and social situations of a country.

The Communist Party will soon be evolving into the Workers' Party.

I would like to ask members of the Communist Party to comment on this new setup. The First Half was written by Koondrad, the second part by myself:

Workers' Party

Party Principles:

1) We value commerce, industrialization and trade:

- Trade is very important.
- Workers are the most important unit in the game.
- Industrialization means building tile improvements and building many buildings in cities.
- No tile should go unimproved.
- We strive for good diplomatic relations and trade agreements.
- Open borders are good.

2) We disdain war:

- We will build military units and buildings.
- A strong military is essential for defence.
- We will only participate in wars if they are in the defence of allies.
- We will not start wars in order to expand.
- We always seek to achieve our ends by diplomatic means.
- War is a last resort.

3) Expansion is important, but colonization is not:

- We will seek to settle unoccupied land whenever it is appropriate.
- We will actively try and secure resources.
- We will avoid colonization (the act of settling on another continent) assuming that there is space for about 7 cities on our own continent.
- Colonization is acceptable when it avoids invasion if we need to expand.
- Colonization is acceptable when it is to a secure a resource.

Favored Civics:
Government: Representation, Universal Suffrage
Legal: Bureaucracy, Free Speech
Labor: Serfdom, Emancipation
Economy: Free Market, Environmentalism
Religion: Organized Religion, Pacifism, Free Religion

Civics not listed are frowned upon by party policy.

The Communist Party will soon be evolving into the Workers' Party.
:confused: :hmm: Check your PMs.

-the Wolf

:confused: :hmm: Check your PMs.

-the Wolf


Do you not think this is a suitable name?

Alright, I need to explain that I completely disagree with State Property. State Property is such a bad civic compared to the other options. You can argue that it helps in a big nation, but Free Market's extra trade route and Environmentalism's extra health (Thus room for bigger cities) provide so much more income then State Property. Plus, state property in real life is a step towards a dictatorship, and in general should not be trusted. So in conclusion, I have nothing but disdain for State Property. We aren't Bolsheviks, we are CIV4 Communists, different thing, different methods.

It is at this point that I must point out that Nomad Bryce is founding this party on his own. I now have other obligations so, in order to avoid a conflict of interest, I unfortunately will not be co-founding this new incarnation of the Civ4 commie party with Comrade Bryce.

I wish him the best of luck in it,

Peace,

Yes, sorry that I failed to point this out, but I wanted to give credit for that piece that you wrote.

Like I said, it did have very nice formatting, but when I copied and pasted it, it was lost.

Anyways, why did you choose the name, "The Workers' Party" ?

Because the Party favors Worker units, not neccesarilly because we are socialists (More capitalist if you ask me)

Alright, I need to explain that I completely disagree with State Property. State Property is such a bad civic compared to the other options. You can argue that it helps in a big nation, but Free Market's extra trade route and Environmentalism's extra health (Thus room for bigger cities) provide so much more income then State Property. Plus, state property in real life is a step towards a dictatorship, and in general should not be trusted. So in conclusion, I have nothing but disdain for State Property. We aren't Bolsheviks, we are CIV4 Communists, different thing, different methods.

Im against having free market. State property may not be the way real communism works but its still more in the line of communism then free market. Free market is when anyone can start a buisness and run it. In communism the workers controll it. If this party is going to keep free market as a civic im leaving :scan:

Yes, this is a party based on a peaceful strategy of cooperation, economics and technology. State Property does not fit into this strategy and is all around a poor civic. This party is not actually Communism (Although people disagree as to what communism is and everyone thinks they are right, when in reality, a word is just whatever definition we give it so they are all right).

Ok, clearly I have failed to clear this whole name thing. I like the name The Workers' Party because I believe that workers are the most important unit, but since this is being misinterpreted once more as being... Well being any givin definition of socialism, communism, or other ideology, I must propose a new name. This may sound like a COMPLETE TURNAROUND but really it isnt. I viewed the name Communist Party as Peaceful and Worker Based not as State Property and no Free Market. I now propose the following name. Quaker Capitalists (I live in the Philadelphia suburbs and have a strong admiration for the Quakers, their business dealings are very moral and well intentioned, truly a people to be admired)

Quakers throughout their history have been known to be very fair in their dealings, and very industrious and peaceable people. They are well known for their tolerance and pacifism. Perhaps this is the best name for the new Citizen Group. Perhaps though, people will misinterpret again that this is favoring a religion? If so they are silly. But some other possible names would be Peaceable Capitalists, Builders Party, Industrial Pacifists, blah blah, leave suggestions and comments.

Peaceful Economists?

Thats good too, Although I do believe Industrial Pacifists sounds more sophisticated =]

Yes I think you're right. GG. Are you going to start a new thread or are you going to rename this thread? I think a lot of the current members are incative so maybe a new thread?

I agree, I will probobly start a new thread, but I've decided to postpone this until the new thread for parties is created, you know, for a nice fresh start, Hopefully with no confusion this time. And of course, I think I'll just ask members to trust me this time and declare myself Leader of the party with some method of disposing me if I'm "Out of Line" which I know I won't be. That way I can boot these inactive members, even though they make the party look bigger then it is. I'm not one for false inflation, and I prefer truely active people.

until the new thread for parties is created
Do you mean the new forum?


And of course, I think I'll just ask members to trust me this time and declare myself Leader of the party with some method of disposing me if I'm "Out of Line" which I know I won't be. If they don't like something they can leave, or form a splinter group.

That way I can boot these inactive members, even though they make the party look bigger then it is. I'm not one for false inflation, and I prefer truely active people.

Yes, I'm sure it's irritating when people sign up only to disappear and never post again.

Yea, I meant the new forum. No need to make a new thread here when their is going to be a new forum anyway.

Sorry for not being here much. I check in about once a week but I am still active. If you need any help Nomad just pm me. Also I see that we won't name ourselves after an animal but can we have an animal mascot like the IIP's Pip?

Yes, Cali, we are going to be having a doggie mascot. I have a cute Jack Russel Terrier named Penny that I was going to use, and his name is very apropriate since its a party dealing with money and the economy. lol

Yes, Cali, we are going to be having a doggie mascot. I have a cute Jack Russel Terrier named Penny that I was going to use, and his name is very apropriate since its a party dealing with money and the economy. lol

lolorz. Congrats on your election victory Nomad Bryce.

Well, I have finally decided that the best name for the CP evolution party is either "The Industrialist Party" or "The Pacifist Industrialist Party" People who will be transferring membership, please PM me a vote on either of these two names. Thanks.

Well, with very little activity from this parties members, the name has been changed to Industrialists. I will only carry members over who are active in the demogame since I am assuming the others are sleepers. I will not be transfering Illini Rule because I assume he wants State Property from his posts, which the party will not be supporting. If you want membership Illini just ask, I'm just assuming you want out so correct me if I'm wrong. Anyone who doesn't want membership to the Industrialists just tell me and I'll take you off the list.

Karl Marx shall turn over in his grave. :lol:

According to "The Capital", society evolves in the order of:

Industrialistic -> Capitalistic -> Imperialistic -> Socialistic -> Communistic

And you're now jumping all the way back! Ah my...

lol, Karl Marx and me disagree on many things. He is a political philospher, but I must say that doesnt make him right simply because he thought it and convinced a lot of people he was right (Not saying blackbird, that you are saying he is right, im just commenting on Marx) Plato and other philosophers dived into great sciences and found results today that we have found to be incorrect. I believe marx's theories are flawed and that the world does not work like that. But you are right, that Karl Marx would be turning over in his grave... if he still had functioning muscles, nervous connections, and a brain, along with an internet connection. LOL

@NB: Btw, your signature is *way* to long. Please read the Forum FAQ for the rules.

lol, Karl Marx and me disagree on many things. He is a political philospher, but I must say that doesnt make him right simply because he thought it and convinced a lot of people he was right (Not saying blackbird, that you are saying he is right, im just commenting on Marx) Plato and other philosophers dived into great sciences and found results today that we have found to be incorrect. I believe marx's theories are flawed and that the world does not work like that. But you are right, that Karl Marx would be turning over in his grave... if he still had functioning muscles, nervous connections, and a brain, along with an internet connection. LOL

Yes, his theories might have applied to the social structure of the mid-nineteenth century but they don’t apply to our world and maybe seem slightly more inaccurate now.


@NB: Btw, your signature is *way* to long. Please read the Forum FAQ for the rules.



It says a maximum of 5 lines of size 2 text. It looks fine to me unless he's edited it since you posted that.

It says a maximum of 5 lines of size 2 text. It looks fine to me unless he's edited it since you posted that.

He has, before it was a two-digit number of lines, I believe.

Yea, I wasnt really paying attention. It was 11 lines. LOL

Yea, I wasnt really paying attention. It was 11 lines. LOL


LMAO. How'd you manage that? :crazyeye:

Whoops, I'm [offtopic]

I was currently searching for a party that was interesting to my views in government. I hope that I have found it. After reading Bryces Manifesto I would be honored to join

I was currently searching for a party that was interesting to my views in government. I hope that I have found it. After reading Bryces Manifesto I would be honored to join



This party has bacome The Industrialist Party (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=152725).

Okay then (ten characters)