The purpose of this guide is to allow you to have a visual look at
the terrain, resources, improvements, and city placement ideas by
using screen shots. Information that was not found in the game
manual or in the game civilpedia was taken from world builder and
play testing.

*This does not include any technology bonuses.(yet)

This is a link to stuporstars guide (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=136433) which gives great detail on terrain,improvements,
and how civics/technology bonus effect yields.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets start off by looking at what the basic terrain tiles you will expect to see in your game.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/c0320119.jpg
This picture allows you to get a feel for the look of the terrain, what features(such as hills,forest,etc..)
you can expect to see on the terrain and most importantly, how much Food (represented by bread slices),
Production(represented by hammers), and Commerce (represented by gold coins) is standardly given.
We will call this FPC for short.This is important because your city will use the surrounding terrains FPC to help
build units/buildings/wonders,grow population for larger cities, and have money to use/research science faster.

Food will become a loaf after it reaches 5 slices,
5 Hammers will turn into a anvil,
and 5 coins will turn into a moneybag.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/c329ddf0.jpg

I would like to point out the best producers of FPC. The floodplains and oasis(+3F/2C, not shown)tiles
have the highest amount of food with 3 slices. The highest productivity comes from a forested hill/plain
with 3 hammers.The highest producer of commerce comes from the coast tiles Worth 2 gold coins. Now
Lets look at the worst producers in the picture. There are two tile types that provide no FPC whatsoever,
these being the desert and snow tiles. Jungles will decrease the food output of a tile. Snow and jungle
tiles do not benefit from the extra commerce provided by rivers.

Terrain effects the movements of your units and some effect your cities health. Tiles without features
will cost 1mp to move units. Tiles with features(hills, forest, jungles) cost 2mp to move. Impassable
terrain include mountain peeksand glacier ice. Forests provide your city with a +0.4 health bonus
where floodplains have -0.4 and jungles a -0.25. Having a city next to a fresh water lake or river
will give your city a +2 to health.

Terrain tiles will provide defensive bonuses for a city or a unit allowed to use terrain defenses.
A hill tile by itself will provide you with a 25% bonus and is the only tile a city can gain a bonus off of.
A forest or jungle tile by itself will provide a 50% bonus. A hill tile with a forest or jungle on it will
provide you with 75% bonus. Any attack crossing a river will provide a extra 25% bonus to the
defender. This equals out to a total of 100% bonus if all conditions are met. After the discovery
of mathematics, you will be able to build a fort improvement giving a defense bonus of 25%. Building
a fort will result in chopping down a Forest/Jungle tile.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/defensivebonus.jpg

Forests will never grow on Desert or Snow tiles. Forests will remain on grass, plains, and
tundra only. Jungles will only grow on grassland tiles. Forests and Jungles will grow on hills
of these terrain types.
------------------------------------------------------------------


As you look around the map you will also notice Resources. Resources are very important to
your city. They not only provide bonuses for your city to grow larger and happier,they are necessary
for you to build a stronger military. When reading the charts, any number bonus is added to the
terrain types natural FPC. ex:CORN+1F(unimproved)+2F(improved) on a grass tile will provide 3Food(unimproved)
and 5 Food(improved).

Resources will come in these three categories:

Luxuries-All luxuries provide happiness bonuses for your city.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/a85266de.jpg
NAME---BONUS-----W/IMPROVEMENT
DYES---+1C--------+4C----(Plantation)
SUGAR--+1F--------+1F/+3C----(Plantation)
GEMS---+1C--------+1P/+5C----(Mine)
IVORY---+1P-------+1P/+1C----(Camp)
WINE----+1C-------+1F/+2C----(Winery)
SPICES--+1C-------+1F/+2C----(Plantation)
SILK-----+1C-------+3C--------(Plantation)
SILVER--+1C-------+1P/+4C----(Mine)
FURS----+1C-------+3C--------(Camp)
INCENSE-+1C-------+5C--------(Plantation)
GOLD----+1C--------+1P/+6C---(Mine)
WHALE---+1F-------+1P/+2C---(Whaling Boat)

Food-All foods provide health bonuses for your city.(exception of OASIS)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/1de942e9.jpg
NAME-----BONUS--W/IMPROVEMENTS
BANANAS--+1F------+2F------(Plantation)
CLAM------+1F------+2F------(Fishing Boats)
CORN------+1F------+2F------(Farm)
COW------+1F-------+2P------(Pasture)
CRAB------+1F------+2F------(Fishing Boats)
DEER------+1F------+2F-------(Camp)
FISH------+1F------+3F-------(Fishing Boats)
PIG-------+1F------+3F-------(Pasture)
RICE------+1F------+1F-------(Farm)
SHEEP----+1F------+2/+1C----(Pasture)
WHEAT---+1F------+2F-------(Farm)

General/Strategic-Used to create new unit types for construction and/or provide faster wonder construction.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/Civ4ScreenShot0004-P.jpg
NAME------BONUS---W/IMPROVEMENTS
ALUMINUM--+1P------+3P/+1C-----(Mine)
COAL-------+1P------+3P--------(Mine)
COPPER----+1P-------+3P--------(Mine)
HORSES----+1P-------+2P/+1C---(Pasture)
IRON-------+1P-------+3P--------(Mine)
MARBLE----+1P-------+1P/+2C----(Quarry)
OIL--------+1P-------+2P/+1C----(Well or Offshore Platform)
STONE-----+1P-------+2P--------(Quarry)
URANIUM---+0--------+3C--------(Mine)

1)Incense will always be on the desert.
2)Bananas,Dyes,Rice,Spices,and Sugar will always be on grasslands.
3)Wine and Wheat are always in plains.
4)Fur are always on tundra or snow.
5)Ivory,Corn,Cows,Pig,Sheep,and Silks always on grasslands or plains.
(this has been edited since last posting, I found deer on plains tiles which never occured before while testing)
I tend to find the rest spread out on all terrain types.

This tiles may contain hills, forests, or jungle but still remain on this tile type.

Now we have a good idea about the terrain and resources, lets take a look what can be done on these tiles.
----------------------------------------------------------------

This photo gives a look at what can be done to improve the standard FPC output of terrain tiles.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/cf8f225e.jpg
Improvements can be built on terrain tiles after your city has produced a worker and you have
researched the corresponding technology. Improvements can drastically increase the FPC for
your city and should be done as soon as possible. Glacier ice, mountain peeks, and oasis tiles
cannot be improved.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/c7d8bf2b.jpg
A Cottage(shown above) is built to increase the commerce of a tile by one. After 10 turns,
cottages turn into Hamlets(+2C), Hamlets turn into Villages(+3C) after 20 turns,
and finally a village will turn into Towns(+4C) after 40 turns.

Roads have no added benefits besides connecting resources and adding movement to units.
Rails will add (+1P) to mines and lumber mills and better movement. Rails/Roads are not required to
get the full effects from improved tiles. Clearing a forest will deposit extra hammers for your city.
If you are building a improvement over a forest it is not necessary to clear it first because you will
receive the bonus hammers as normal. Jungles provide no extra hammers for clearing.

There are improvements used to acquire resources and provide their benefits to your city. For land tiles,
roads/rails must be linked from the resource to your city via trade network. For water tiles a work boat
must be constructed. Resources must be within your cultural boundaries to receive their benefits.


------------------------------------------------------------------
* WORKER TIMES FOR IMPROVEMENTS
WT=WORKER TURNS DNA=DOES NOT APPLY
*This does not include any technology, leader traits, or civic bonuses.

Improvement--GRASS/PLAINS TILE--W/FOREST--W/JUNGLE-
ROADS-------------2WT-----------2WT--------2WT------
RAILROAD-----------3WT----------3WT--------3WT------
FARM---------------5WT----------8WT--------9WT-----
WORKSHOP---------6WT----------9WT---------10WT---
COTTAGE-----------4WT----------7WT--------8WT-----
WATERMILL---------8WT----------11WT-------12WT----
PLANTATION--------5WT----------8WT--------9WT-----
MINE---------------4WT-----------7WT-------8WT-----
PASTURE-----------4WT-----------7WT-------8WT-----
CAMP--------------4WT-----------4WT--------4WT-----
QUARRY -----------6WT-----------9WT-------10WT----
WINERY -----------5WT-----------8WT-------DNA------
LUMBER MILL -------DNA----------8WT-------DNA------
WINDMILL----------5WT-----------8WT-------9WT-----
CHOP TILE----------DNA----------3WT-------4WT------
FORT---------------6WT----------9WT-------10WT----

IMPROVEMENT--TUNDRA--W/FOREST--SNOW--DESERT
ROADS----------3WT-----3WT--------3WT----3WT
RAILROAD-------4WT-----4WT--------5WT-----4WT
FARM-----------7WT----10WT-------DNA------8WT
WORKSHOP-----8WT----11WT--------DNA-----9WT
LUMBERMILL----DNA-----10WT-------DNA-----DNA
WATERMILL----10WT----14WT-------12WT----10WT
COTTAGE------5WT----- 9WT--------DNA-----6WT
CAMP----------5WT-----5WT--------6WT-----DNA
PLANTATION---DNA------DNA--------DNA------7WT
MINE-----------5WT----9WT--------5WT------6WT
PASTURE------5WT-----DNA---------DNA------DNA
CHOP TILE-----DNA-------4WT-------DNA-----DNA
FORT----------8WT------11WT-------9WT-----8WT

The techs workers need to make these improvements are as follows:

Hunting-allows Camps 40SP(science points)
Fishing-allows Fishing boats 40SP
Mining-allows Mine 50SP
Agriculture-allows Farms 60SP
Wheel-allows Roads 60SP
Pottery-allows Cottage 80SP
Masonry-allows Quarry 80SP
Animal Husbandry-allows Pasture 100SP
Bronze Working-allows Chop/Clear Forest 120SP
Iron Working-allows Chop/Clear jungle 200SP
Mathmatics-allows Forts 250SP
Monarchy-allows Winery 300SP
Calender-allows Plantations 350SP
Metal casting-allows Workshops 450SP
Optics-allows Whaling Boats 600SP
Machinery-allows Windmills and Watermills 700SP
Replaceable parts-allows Lumber mills 1600SP
Railroad-allows Railroads 2200SP
Combustion-allows Wells 2400SP
Plastics-allows Offshore Platform 4000SP


Civics choices may effect the FPC of a improved tile or the way a worker produces:

Universal Suffrage : +1 hammers gained from a Town
Bureaucracy:+50% hammers, +50% gold in capital
Free Speech:+2 gold gained from a Town
Serfdom:workers 50% faster
Emancipation:+100% growth for Cottage, Hamlet, Village
State Property:+1 food from Workshop & Watermill
Environmentalism:+1 happy from Jungle & Forest, +5 health in all cities

There are Leaders that effect the financial earnings of your cities by use of their traits.
Financial leaders such as: Catherine, Elizabeth, Huayna, Mansa, Qin, Washington, and Victoria
all receive a +1 Commerce bonus to all tiles receiving 2 Commerce.

If you would like to see what technologies add to the improvements FPC,
check out stuporstars guide (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=136433).
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Lets get started on city placement. Cities are the backbone of your civilization and the more FPC available,
the stronger you will become. When choosing a spot to settle, be aware of the surroundings. Are you
close to resources ? Is there a river or lake you can settle by? Will you have to cut down jungles to grow?
These type of questions you should always ask yourself when placing cities.

When you settle your city you will see a border surrounding it. This border allows you to use and improve
the terrain inside of it. In the beginning you will have a 9 square boundary. As culture in your city develops,
your boundary will expand.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg
As time passes your borders will expand beyond that but, you will only use the yields of the land as
far as the expanded boundary in the photo. It should be noted that resources
inside your cultural borders are yours and can be improved to provide resources to help your city grow.
You cannot however gain from the resources FPC if it is outside any of your cities expanded boundary.

Certain terrain tiles will effect your cities by being on,next, or near them. Any city built on a hill will
always receive a 25% defensive bonus.This is cumulative with the 25% defensive bonus when
defending across rivers. If you settle next to a river or lake the city will gain a +2 health bonus.
This will help your city later as it grows in population. Forests will provide a health bonus of +.40
when inside your cities expanded borders. If you have a floodplain inside your cities expanded border,
it results in a -.40 health for your city. Jungles will result in a -.25 health for your city. Rivers act as
roads when it comes to connecting a trade network. To connect a resource to your city, it must be
connected to a trade network to receive the benefits.

You may want to build a city just to block another civ from gaining access into land you want to
settle in the future. Without a Open Border agreement, a civ can no longer pass through your lands cultural borders.
A city also can be built to serve as a canal or bridge to pass between two seas or a sea and ocean.
This allows you to bring ships to areas others cannot.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/f25b71bf.jpg

There are Leaders that will provide you with a health bonus as a trait. These Expansive leaders are:
Bismark, Cyrus, Genghis, Isabella, Julius, Peter, and Victoria.
Having this trait gains a +2 health bonus to all cities.


There are a few limitations when settling a city. A city cannot be settled within 2 squares of another
city and you cannot settle on impassible terrain.



-----------------------------------------------------------------


This section is not saying you must place cities on these locations. It shows you what happens when
you do place them on certain terrain and resources. Please use your own judgment on where to place
your cities.

I would like to show a photo of city placement on different terrains and the effects it has on the cities FPC.
Looking at the photo you should see a green arrow pointing to the only city that has a different FPC
ratio than the others and that is hills/plains settlement. It produces two food, two hammers,
and one commerce compared to other terrain types producing two food, one hammer, and one commerce.
Not much of a difference when placing.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/cityplacement.jpg

Now, lets take a look at what happens when a city is placed on certain resource/terrain combos.

When Bananas, Rice, Sugar, Sheep, Corn, Cows, and Pigs are on Grassland Tiles Only(no hills)
you are able to produce One Extra Bread Slice more than normal when you settle on top of them.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/dd8f2e80.jpg


When Coal, Copper, Iron, Marble, Oil, Stone, Aluminum, Horses, and Ivory are on Plains Tiles Only(no hills)
you are able to produce One Extra hammer more than normal when you settle on top of them.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/b851b1d6.jpg

Now if these same resources are on a PLAINS/HILL tile you can produce Two Extra Hammers more
than normal.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/80e0a088.jpg

When Dye, Gold, Gems,Incense, Fur, Silk, Silver, Spice, and Wine are next to a river, you will receive
One Extra Commerce more then normal when you settle on top of them.

Now, you do not have to have any technology to gain the extra FPC bonus provided by these resources.
You do however have to have the technology if you want to connect these resources to your
trade network and receive health, happiness, and strategic bonus. In most instances, it would be better
for you to improve a resource than to settle on them.

MORE TO COME.........

Saved for future use

Please post any errors or suggestions that you see would help the guide. Criticism is welcome and appreciated.

11.11.05- Photos back up.
Added new pics for both segments.
Straightened up guide for easier reading.
Added civic bonuses that reflect improvements and workers.
Added forts to terrain guide.

This guide will certainly change my train of thought in regards of how I start my civilizations.

I probably will never pass up the opportunity to take a HUGE production lead early on in the game, by settling down on a Plains/Hill tile with a Stone/Marble/Ivory/Horse tile on it. That'd definitally be something that is definitally worth the 1-2 turns it takes to settle down.

But if you plop your town on top of it, you can no longer improve upon the terrain adding much more than 1 extra food or hammer.

The huge early lead you'll get for your first city by putting it there will more than make up for the long-term production/food loss.

The huge early lead you'll get for your first city by putting it there will more than make up for the long-term production/food loss.

Indeed. In addition you do not have to devote X number of worker turns to improve the tile or road it to your trade network.

Granted, a one-time bonus but in the ancient era shaving even a half-dozen turns off the time it takes to gain access to a resource, in addition to the instantaneous enhanced production ability of that ancient era city... ooooh! Shiny! :D

Clear story, Brokguitar. Well done. :thumbsup:

Thank you, your guide is extremely useful!!

As you had started in the previous thread b4 moving here, it may be useful to try and list the real limitations to resources, i.e. on what tiles may appear each resource. I copy/paste brokguitar's first statement:
"1)Incense will always be on the desert.
2)Bananas,Dyes,Rice,Spices,and Sugar will always be on grasslands.
3)Wine and Wheat is always in plains.
4)Fur and Deer always tundra or snow.
5)Ivory,Corn,Cows,Pig,Sheep,and Silks always on grasslands or plains."
What about the other? Oil, stone, marble, gems, ecc...?

great stuff, keep it coming!

Does settling in a resource tile automatically grant you the resource, or is it lost forever? And if it DOES grant you the resource, why not settle in them all the time?

I didn't quite get that part. Also, to recieve forest health bonuses, does the forest have to be in the immediate 2 tiles surrounding your city or can it be anywhere between your cultural borders?

Does settling in a resource tile automatically grant you the resource, or is it lost forever? And if it DOES grant you the resource, why not settle in them all the time? The resource becomes available after you have researched the improvement needed to gain that resource. After that technology is researched the city will automatically start receiving the benefits.



I didn't quite get that part. Also, to receive forest health bonuses, does the forest have to be in the immediate 2 tiles surrounding your city or can it be anywhere between your cultural borders? Must be within your expanded border (use the pic for reference).

The food/production bonus to the city ontop of a resource needs no technology.

The resource itself is available(to all connected cities) as soon as required technologý is díscovered.

EDIT: Bah! I really have to stop watching TV and writing at the same time. Then other wouldn't beat me to the post :)

Is it better to settle a city on a tile with three production hammers or two food slices and a gold (for example)? Or does it matter as long as the city is close to these things for improvements to take advantage of?

After finding a defensive bonus, I tend to settle new cities on tiles with extra hammers, assuming that the city will produce units more quickly. Suggestions?

A couple of thingies. First of all, you tend to use the word "then" instead of "than" (I know--ridiculously nitpicky, but what do you expect from a 41 year old nerd?). Second: did I miss it or did you not tell us the production time for improving hills? Third: You did not specify, does the presence of trees (either forest or jungle) add to the time? In other words, road on forested grass costs 4WT?

A couple of thingies. First of all, you tend to use the word "then" instead of "than" (I know--ridiculously nitpicky, but what do you expect from a 41 year old nerd?). Second: did I miss it or did you not tell us the production time for improving hills? Third: You did not specify, does the presence of trees (either forest or jungle) add to the time? In other words, road on forested grass costs 4WT?
Being nitpicky is ok ;) as long as you have a good point.
MINE---------------4WT-----------7WT-------8WT-----
This means its 4wt to build a mine 7wt with forest on it and 8wt for jungle. You cant build a mine on flatland unless there is a resource on it. Same with windmill.

Is it better to settle a city on a tile with three production hammers or two food slices and a gold (for example)? Or does it matter as long as the city is close to these things for improvements to take advantage of?

After finding a defensive bonus, I tend to settle new cities on tiles with extra hammers, assuming that the city will produce units more quickly. Suggestions?

People are going to have opinions about this. I would say that if you are just starting the game and are looking to place you first city, place it ON the resource if it will give your central city tile a production boost. The reason for this is that in the earliest stages of the game your city population will be low (meaning you may not have an extra citizen to work the resource if it were "outside" of your city), you may not have a worker available to improve the tile, or the technology to build the appropriate improvement.

By placing your city on the resource you can get a 100-200% increase in your production from day one. This will have a huge impact on the early game as it will allow you to crank out scouts, warriors, settlers and early city improvements at a much faster rate. Telegraphed over the whole game this faster start will prove to be much more valuable than the production lost by properly improving and working the tile (that you wouldn't be able to take advantage until many turns into the game).

By the same token, I would never build on a resource in the later game simply because you would miss out on the increased production. I would build any city after the first next to the resource and connect/improve it as fast as I could.

The one exception to this is if the resource is a critical strategic resource and I need access to it NOW. If I'm in the midst of a war and oil suddenly appears somewhere just outside of my borders, settling ON it can save critical turns where I could be building units rather than improving the tile so I can use the resource.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muze
Is it better to settle a city on a tile with three production hammers or two food slices and a gold (for example)? Or does it matter as long as the city is close to these things for improvements to take advantage of?

After finding a defensive bonus, I tend to settle new cities on tiles with extra hammers, assuming that the city will produce units more quickly. Suggestions?

People are going to have opinions about this. I would say that if you are just starting the game and are looking to place you first city, place it ON the resource if it will give your central city tile a production boost. The reason for this is that in the earliest stages of the game your city population will be low (meaning you may not have an extra citizen to work the resource if it were "outside" of your city), you may not have a worker available to improve the tile, or the technology to build the appropriate improvement.

Hmm, I guess you weren't answering my question as much as you were simply responding generally to the thread. Not that I don't appreciate the information, if it was indeed directed towards me, but that's not the question I asked.

can someone post the pictures somewhere else? photobucket reached the limit.

thanks
zip

Yes plz. Very interested in the pictures.

Very great guide Brokguitar! I've added some of your info that I had missed to my own guide (with due credit to you). I hope you don't mind. :goodjob:

I think you could possibly put this together in a pdf format for people to download, which might cut down on some of the bandwidth issues.

Muze,

You're right, sorry. I didn't quite get the gist of your question at first read. Still, I thik the basic concepts hold true. First city - settle where you can get the production bonus (I beleive any center city tile will produce at least two food and a commerce, so go for the production).

Beyond the first city you want to settle next to the bonus tile (NOT on) as it will give you more production if you can develop/work it.

Sorry everyone for the bandwidth problem, I have had A lot of hits and exceeded the bandwidth for the month. I will put it as pdf but unsure how to do it. If someone can do it fairly easy, you are welcome to use the pics and the guide and will be given credit for the help.

I have seen Pigs on Hills before. A GREAT square to have near your capital or any city for that matter. I actually havent seen pigs on grass yet. I havent seen anything more that 6F (with techs and improvements).

Brokguitar is talking about base terrain in his guide, not features. The hill would be the feature, with a base terrain of grassland. I have seen pigs on grassland/hill and grassland/jungle, and most often grassland/hill/jungle. The one thing in common is always the base terrain of grassland.

Thanks stuporstar, thats exactly right. The pigs may be on hills, but that hill has a base terrain such as grassland/hill, grassland/jungle. grassland forest. Sorry if i was unclear on that.

There are a few limitations when settling a city. A city cannot be settled within 2 squares of another city and you cannot settle on impassible terrain.
Oasis are passible terrain but can't be improved nor a site for a new city which could be considered a form of improvement.

Sorry everyone for the bandwidth problem, I have had A lot of hits and exceeded the bandwidth for the month. I will put it as pdf but unsure how to do it. If someone can do it fairly easy, you are welcome to use the pics and the guide and will be given credit for the help.

Brokguitar,

if you e-mail me the files you have put together I'll be happy to complile a PDF for you.

damn, i dont have a printer but i can print this at the library and read it while im doing my security guard job :)

This is great information. I was wondering if it was practical to build on a resource. From your research I conclude that it is. The benefit of the extra production early on seems to be more valuable than waiting to "properly" develop the tile later.

Brokguitar,

if you e-mail me the files you have put together I'll be happy to complile a PDF for you.


The only files i have are on this forum. If you can copy/paste them to a file, you are welcome to download the pics and use that to make a pdf file. Let me know what you need. Thanks

I'm currently making a pdf version of my own terrain guide, with nice clean charts to replace the huge clunky lists in the text version. I was wondering if I could use your screenshots and the info from this guide as well to make a fully comprehensive terrain guide. Do you mind, Brokguitar?

I just noticed something that eluded my attention the first time I scanned through this photo guide.

One of the screenshots shows a city founded on Ice, and another on Desert, neither of which normally has any production at all. Yet with a city on it, these tiles still produce the same 2-1-1 as most other terrain types?

If that is so, then it seems to me it would be a sensible strategy to place some cities on the least valuable tiles in the area. Over the long run, the city site would thus have one more useful tile, which would otherwise be unused Desert or Ice.

This also strikes me as exploit-ish...the sort of thing that ought to be addressed in a future patch or mod.

-- Kevin

This is 100% correct KevinTMC, you do get normal city production when founding a city on an unproductive tile. I wouldn't really call this an exploit, just another aspect of game strategy. Any way to turn a useless tile into a productive one is a good thing in my opinion.

I just noticed something that eluded my attention the first time I scanned through this photo guide.

One of the screenshots shows a city founded on Ice, and another on Desert, neither of which normally has any production at all. Yet with a city on it, these tiles still produce the same 2-1-1 as most other terrain types?

If that is so, then it seems to me it would be a sensible strategy to place some cities on the least valuable tiles in the area. Over the long run, the city site would thus have one more useful tile, which would otherwise be unused Desert or Ice.

This also strikes me as exploit-ish...the sort of thing that ought to be addressed in a future patch or mod.

-- Kevin
Well it merely means when judging city spots you look ONLY at the tiles around the city.

I'm currently making a pdf version of my own terrain guide, with nice clean charts to replace the huge clunky lists in the text version. I was wondering if I could use your screenshots and the info from this guide as well to make a fully comprehensive terrain guide. Do you mind, Brokguitar?

Been working and havent had much time to update the guide with some new stuff Ive found. Suporstar feel free to use the pics and info for a pdf guide. Ive got more pics coming and new info unposted, should be up shortly.

P.S. kinda want to wait and see how this patch effects everything.

This thread is great... but how often do you need all this info? I mean, the computer shows you the best place to settle with the blue circles right? I did read in the walkthrough that the computer will blue circle spaces 1 away from a shore and that is a no-no (place the city on the shore). If that is the case than why doesn't the computer place the blue circle on the shore. Why have the blue circle at all if it's not an accurate suggestion? Confused. :(

id always build on strategic resources, why? because it cant be pillaged if you build on top of it.
They need to pillage 8 roads when you build on it

Great info - thanks!
This'll realy come in handy when I start MP.

Terrain effects the movements of your units and some effect your cities health. Tiles without features
will cost 1mp to move units. Tiles with features(hills, forest, jungles) cost 2mp to move. Impassable
terrain include mountain peeksand glacier ice. Forests provide your city with a +0.5 health bonus
where floodplains have -0.4 and jungles a -0.25. Having a city next to a fresh water lake or river
will give your city a +2 to health.


Just a minor correction: as you correctly state later in your guide, forests provide 0.4 health bonus. Probably just a typo in the quoted paragraph, where you wrote 0.5.

All that aside, a fantastic and thorough write-up. Thanks very much for sharing it!

Rabi

Actually the 0.5 figure was taken from the manual. I made the same mistake at first because of that too.

Dealing only with maximum tile yields and no other consideration for city placement, in which cases is it better to settle on a resource or improve it with a worker?

I would say a good strategy is to only settle on resources early in the game when that production boost is most needed, except in the case of important late-game strategic resources which you may want to protect it with a city. (enemy AI spies are notorious for pillaging oil wells, so settling on one of these to protect it is probably a good idea. I would never bother settling on top of some resources, such as ones that can't be improved until Calandar is discovered, because the commerce boost you can get from these is greater with improvements and they won't appear in your trade even if you settle on them until you research it.

Iron on Grassland does not provide a bonus to the city. :(

I just noticed something that eluded my attention the first time I scanned through this photo guide.

One of the screenshots shows a city founded on Ice, and another on Desert, neither of which normally has any production at all. Yet with a city on it, these tiles still produce the same 2-1-1 as most other terrain types?

If that is so, then it seems to me it would be a sensible strategy to place some cities on the least valuable tiles in the area. Over the long run, the city site would thus have one more useful tile, which would otherwise be unused Desert or Ice.

This also strikes me as exploit-ish...the sort of thing that ought to be addressed in a future patch or mod.

-- Kevin

I don't see it as an exploit at all. Namely because how many hammers ect does you LOSE because you decided to place a city on a sweet tile (to maximize resources). If a junk tile is available and you can still get your bonuses, all the better for balance.

Current game, I had to choose between building on a grass/hill or a plains/hill. I chose the grass/hill as it put a wine resource in the fat-x and kept a peak out of it. Same map i got to settle on a desert tile and have 2 fish. I could have built the city on a plains tile, but what for. I had a perfectly desert tile i could use for the same effect.

I think the players ends up losing more to the city tile 2-1-1 limit a lot more often than the extra gained from a city or two on junk.

This thread is great... but how often do you need all this info? I mean, the computer shows you the best place to settle with the blue circles right? I did read in the walkthrough that the computer will blue circle spaces 1 away from a shore and that is a no-no (place the city on the shore). If that is the case than why doesn't the computer place the blue circle on the shore. Why have the blue circle at all if it's not an accurate suggestion? Confused. :(

I have seen that too early on, but as the map gets revealed I usually find that the blue circles consider a resource bonus a higher priority than ocean access. I like to explore in the direction of the blue circle before deciding which is the better placement spot. Number of times I have chosen to forego the beach. Blue circles also do not take into account city tile defensive/production increases.

The sites recommended by the AI's city-placement algorithm (shown by the blue circles to a player), emphasize getting as may resources in the city's workable radius as possible, with little consideration for FPC values. Since resources can be accessed outside your workable radius, but great FPC tiles cannot, I've found I can often place better cities without the computer's recommendations visible.

After all, the human mind excels at goal-oriented planning (choosing city sites based on what your plans are in the area), something that's very hard to code.



With resources, the things to consider are 1) your total FPC values, and 2) how soon you need access.

- Will your city get more total food, production and commerce building directly on the resource, or on another tile?

- Will you get more benefit from that +1 FPC bonus building on the resource right away, with immediate access to the resource, or will you get more benefit in the long term by building elsewhere?

In some cases, it's better to build on the resource, the other 90% of the time you usually won't. Here's an extraordinary example I encountered a few weeks ago:

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/3484/riversandtrade0nb.jpg

Rivers count as trade routes, as a result my capital city had Stone immediately upon building my second city, without the need for roads or a quarry. This city also got an early double-hammer-production bonus (from 1 to 2). In this case it was beneficial, had it been my 10th city however, the 1 extra hammer and quicker access would not have been worth it.

If it was later in the game, I would have built the city 1 tile further south to gain access to the hill to the southwest, and a quarry for the stone.

This was possibly one of the best starting locations I've ever had :)


Some notes in the article:
- Forests also negate the +1 commerce from rivers (in addition to Jungles). Lumbermills remove this effect.
- For clarification, placing a city on a tile with "Fresh Water" in the tooltip gives +2 health. Fresh water tiles are adjacent to rivers, fresh water lakes, or an oasis. This is often less confusing than stating a city next to fresh water gets the health bonus, as many people interpret that as meaning within the city's workable radius, or next to a fresh water tile.
- Flood plains are actually included in your 1st picture, unmarked. :)

Here's a table of where resources can appear (sorted by terrain). Jungles and Forests are referred to as "Features" in the files. The first column is clear terrain the resource can appear in, the second is whether it can appear on flat land, hills, or by a river. The last two are if it can appear in jungles or forest, and what terrain that jungle or forest can be in (note that jungles are always on grasslands) :)

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/2075/resources4hg.png

It's interesting to note that no luxury resources appear on featureless grassland.
If I made a mistake copying this from the XML point it out :)

I've got a question.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/brokguitar/b851b1d6.jpg

Why are there so many cities on such a small piece of land?
Is this a kind of strategy?

It's just for a visual demonstration; you actually can't have cities that close without placing them in the world editor.

This thread is great... but how often do you need all this info? I mean, the computer shows you the best place to settle with the blue circles right? I did read in the walkthrough that the computer will blue circle spaces 1 away from a shore and that is a no-no (place the city on the shore). If that is the case than why doesn't the computer place the blue circle on the shore. Why have the blue circle at all if it's not an accurate suggestion? Confused. :(

The (very helpful!) blue circles suggest where the city would best be placed to the computer's thinking. It's not a question of accuracy, but of whether you may have a different strategy (longer/shorter term needs, desire to ensure or cut off access to somewhere, defensibility) than the computer assumes, and for which none of the suitable tiles look good to the computer, in which case knowing which is best is very helpful. Also, as far as I know there's no way to view the blue circles unless you have a settler nearby, so being able to figure out the desirability of a city anywhere in that patch to the North is important before sending a settler there that could instead be sent East.

Hello again, been a while since i was on. Wanted to send a thanks to rabhison for pointing out the error on forest health bonuses(stuporstar nailed it). Zippy, Iron grants you a bonus only on plains.
The patch has changed the science points for some techs and horses require animal husbandry to reveal.

I just got this game as a gift and this thread has been one of the most uesful of the many I have read so far. Thank you very much.

changed my game point of view.......

thank u very much....

keep at it....