One chance

There is only one opportunity to beat Sid on the first try. No do-overs. No restarts. Either you win or you don't. This is what I am undertaking. And you can read along.

I want to serve multiple purposes with this game. Besides beating Sid on the first try, I want the game to help me improve my position in the HOF, so I am sticking with parameters that will allow the game to be submitted. I will be picking the game settings, but that is all.

Many of the articles I have seen so far reference finding a "suitable map", or having many retries to ensure a good starting position, acquiring the Great Library, or whatever. There will be none of that here.

When I hit start game the first time - that will be the game I play.

Planning Phase

I was fascinated with the Sid always ware strategy, well documented in Handy900's Theodora Sid Always War Excellent Adventure. Those familiar with the game know that he built his approach on the work of Arathorn and maybe others. The irreverence that Handy showed made the game seem easy. :goodjob: I decided I would use the same approach. I have read extensively on Sid games and have a fair idea what I am up against, but this is my first attempt at Sid level.

All I need to do is play it like chieftain and I will win hands down :rolleyes:

I chose the Byzantines, though Theodora is not going to have the same wits as Handy's adventure. I like the Dromon for pillaging and controlling the tech pace by limiting contact. For this reason I also chose standard size archipelago map with 80% water. This should keep them separated enough until astronomy. I like the always war aspect to keep the AI from finding me. I chose wet and warm to make for some nice lands for me to work. The AI has such ridiculous advantages worse conditions would probably not hurt them that much. In fact I want them to make units quickly so they will drown in the costs for supporting them. :mischief:

I also chose max aggression in hope that the AI civs would fight each other. Since I am doing always war - what difference would it make? I chose Zulu, China, Mongols and Rome as the AI opponents. All four start with warrior code, and all four are militaristic. Rome starts with alphabet, but I am not too worried about them beating me to the Great Library, since literature is optional and it usually takes a while for the AI to research it.

Barbarians are off, no respawn AI, and 3 billion year old earth to increase my chances of having mountains to land on when invading AI islands.

The general strategy is to use Dromons to keep the AI's isolated, keeping the tech pace nice and slow, build the Great Library so we can use our cash to upgrade units and support the army, and systematically take the AI out one by one. Monarchy will be our government of choice until communism.

All the HOF victory conditions are on: histograph, conquest, domination, spaceship, culture, diplomatic.

We could use some help from the map. Obviously each AI should have its own island, and not be able to reach the others. A nice size island with settler factory potential, some luxuries, iron and saltpeter would be ideal. I would like to win by conquest if possible.

Let us see what the RNG gods give me...

Good luck Zerksees!! You can do it! I'll definately be watching this one

I've read some of your other stories zerk, and you are definately one of the best. Good luck!

If you're going for first try, standard 80% arch is a bad idea. Handy900's map was an insanely good map, but most are about 1/3 that size with limited fresh water, luxuries, and maybe an opponent on it. In Arathorns AWS game, his island was the average island size on those map settings.

If you're going for first try, standard 80% arch is a bad idea. Handy900's map was an insanely good map, but most are about 1/3 that size with limited fresh water, luxuries, and maybe an opponent on it. In Arathorns AWS game, his island was the average island size on those map settings.
Thanks for the tip but it is a little too late as I have already started playing the game.

You're welcome :) .

Good luck!

Chapter One - The Story Begins

4000 BC - A gift! My settler is located directly next to fresh water and two cows on grassland. Dyes are in sight. I start research on writing.

2350 BC - Stop first session of the game. Writing due in 15 turns. I have some regrets about starting writing as pottery (and a granary) would be handy right now. I have four cities, four workers and a warrior. I have circled my island and lost my curragh in the sea on a suicide mission. The capital city placement is not so good - as I cannot even get half a circle around the capital. And the island is average size. Time will tell how it compares to the others.

Re-read Handy's story and am relieved he went for writing first to get the GL.

Need some warriors for MP, curraghs to explore and more than one worker per city.

2270 BC - Mongols build the Colossus.

1830 BC - China completes Pyramids

1675 BC - Meet Mongols. Trade alphabet and 18 gpt for pottery and masonry. Immediately break the deal and declare war on Mongols. Not my regular approach to Civ but fun.

Start GL pre-build soon after.

1175 BC - Meet China. Trade 93 gold and 32 GPT for map making. Immediately break the deal and declare war on China. They did not know about my new reputation for treachery.

630 BC - To my dismay the Chinese complete the GL. Oops - guess I should not have traded alphabet to them. The little piggy beat me to the GL! Time will tell how tragic this mistake was. Switch the prebuild to forbidden palace. It will be done next turn.

630 BC - Meet the Romans. Trade 1372 gold for mathematics, iron working, code of laws and ceremonial burial. They must have known about my past deals as they would not accept GPT. Immediately declare war on them too. At least I am treating them all equally. There is an island to my north that sadly they have settled on. Need to send some Dromons up there to stop them. They built the Great Lighthouse.

Unfortunately this island is not reachable without spending time in sea or ocean tiles between turns. It is only one turn in the sea tiles though, so I can plant a Dromon out there, and if it survives another can come to load it, and it can carry units to the north island. This will cost me some Dromons no doubt.

570 BC - Mongols are not afraid to attack my Dromons, even stacked. They fail though and the Byzantine Golden Age begins.

330 BC - Took the one Roman city on the island north of me. Used Dromons and a warrior. These Dromons suit my style - a kind of floating artillery is really cool. I need more, more, more!

Made peace with Mongols and trade literature to collect philosophy, the wheel and 190 gold. Immediately demanded gold from them and when they refused, I redeclared war.

Pulled same trick with Rome giving literature and 480 gold for horseback riding and construction. They too refused to give me 10 gold so I redeclared on them also. I can hear the AI advisors now: "Those Byzantines have attacked us before, I don't know if we should trust them". Buuhuhuhwaaaaah! :p

170BC - Golden Age ended. Made peace with Rome collecting 220 gold. Immediately redeclare war.

90BC - Make peace with China collecting monarchy paying 714 gold. Immediately redeclare war.

50BC - I now feel like I am a civilization without a cause. I pause to reflect and develop strategy. Discovered the Zulu on the prior turn (I had seen their city for a while - they built it in an area I had explored but they had not built on yet). Seems they are already wise to my ways, and must be in contact with nearby China. Tech pace is a little fast as the Romans have no doubt met Mongols and probably more.

So to get things moving again here is the plan:
- Get to monarchy ASAP
- Explore the rest of the map
- Populate the north island ASAP, acquire the iron up there.
- Farm some elite units by leaving a coastal city undefended -see if I can draw Rome in. Need a few more catapults and archers to counter any landing

Need to decide to continue AW by declaring war on the Zulu.

30 BC - Decide to go to anarchy. Do some MM and currency will be done in 14 turns using scientists. Unfortunately I am stuck with 7 turns of anarchy.

70 AD - Make peace with China collecting 80 gold. Immediately redeclare war.

Completed currency and the free tech was feudalism.

170 AD - Make peace with Mongols. Collect Engineering and Republic for Feudalism. Immediately redeclare war.

My one elite archer came back to the home continent. I hit pay dirt as the Romans started landing units on the north coast of my island. On the second landing my elite archer generated a leader. I then built an army with two archers. I almost lost it but it withdrew with one HP when I attacked a 2 HP spearman. But it healed quickly and now I can build heroic epic.

Main focus is on marketplaces as I completed currency.

I am surprised all the landmasses have not been claimed yet.

Here is zerksees mighty empire at 50 BC. Missing the GL but still afloat.

No GL was a bummer, but still winnable if you can get 'powder before every AI has attack three units or higher.

Many of the articles I have seen so far reference finding a "suitable map", or having many retries to ensure a good starting position, acquiring the Great Library, or whatever. There will be none of that here.

When I hit start game the first time - that will be the game I play.


I'll admit that I am spoiled by all the HOF games that I have played. Spending days(or weeks) looking for the ideal start position to milk from. I've always admired the people that just start the game up and go with what they get! After 'Takeo takes on Deity' is done, I might play deity again and play a random game.

Good start so far! Sorry about losing out on the GL.
Can't wait to see some pics.

Chapter Two - The End of Always War

330 AD - Grasshopper must find his own way. I am ready to abandon AW. Instead I am adopting almost always war. I made peace with China. It is obvious they are fighting the Zulu (as they share a continent) and are losing. I cannot mount any sustained attacks since my Dromons need to cross open seas to get off the main island. I have been minimizing losses during transport by putting the Dromon out there and if it lives, allowing the other Dromon to bring units and load into it.

I am refining my plan of expansion and trying to reach more of the open islands. Also need more units at home.

410AD - Collect 60 gold from Zulu for peace. Immediately redeclare war on them. They are still at war with China.
Mongols - 10 cities, down invention
Romans - 11 cities - even tech
Zulu - 20 cities - down invention
China - 5 cities - down monotheism
Byzantines - 30 cities

430AD - Make peace with Rome paying 1180 gold and collecting invention. Redeclare war immediately. Trade invention to China collecting 6 gpt. This is funny because they would get it free the next turn anyway because of the Great Library. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

490AD - Slow moving. Starting to believe I can win this game though, as the AI are not running away with it.
Inventory: 7 settler, 18 worker, 18 warrior, 14 archer, 6 spear, 7 horseman, 1 longbow, 2 catapult, 1 army, 1 medieval infantry, 1 trebuchet, 28 Dromons, for a total of 104 units.
At 10% lux and 0% science I am making 79 gpt, with 762 gold in the kitty.
Lo and behold, we passed China for fourth in score.

560 AD - We pass the Romans in scoring. Mao has only one city left.

570 AD - Make peace with Mongols - pay 1302 gold and collect gunpowder.

740 AD - Made peace with Romans - pay 1890 gold for chemistry.

760 AD - Zulu lose a city to me on remote island. Have been seeing caravels and this is posing new challenges for me.

770 AD - I am paying Mongols for MA vs Zulu, 50 gold + 6gpt. The next turn Rome and Mongols sign MA vs Zulu.
Voila - the Zulu are under the AI dogpile. I made a bonehead maneuver though and my only source of saltpeter is in serious jeopardy from the Zulu.

As soon as the Mongol peace treaty was up they came demanding 80 gold. I paid it this time, expecting they would pass over us and stay at war with someone else - namely the Zulu.

1000 AD - We just completed a battle with the Zulu for our only source of saltpeter. It is located on a small island south east of our main island. The problem here is the island requires travel over ocean tiles and that is not allowed until astronomy. We lost some units and a city, but the land is now ours and we burned two Zulu cities in the process. Yikes that was close. It will take 20+ units to lock them out but that is what I am going to do so it will be safe until marines come along. I sank quite a few frigates and galleons from the Zulu but lost a fair share of Dromons.

Good job getting the saltpeter :goodjob: .

It seems China is the runaway here?

See the saltpeter under the Zulu medieval infantry.

It seems China is the runaway here?
Actually the Zulu are beating China - they are the runaway candidate at this point.

Chapter 3 - The Great Library

At some point Rome made peace with the Zulu. We chose to make peace with them too. Collecting theology for 775 gold. Now it is decision time. Shall we go all out for the Great Library? By the time we get it there will be techs a plenty to take. Obviously we have to stop buying techs since education will make it obsolete. Since Mao has the GL and is a OCC I think it is possible. I still need to look at map logistics. Establishing an embassy, I see China has 28 units, including a trebuchet, a settler and an array of longbow, spear and pike. To take this I would guess I need about 30 offensive units, 15 defensive, peace with the Zulu, a couple settlers, a couple workers, and some bait. ;) I guess always war has been abandoned. Some damage has been done, but it is nothing I have not dealt with before.

1040 AD - Starting to put the plan together. Hopeful the Mongols will research a few more techs before I start this war. The Zull will give ROP for 22 gold, so I might take a chance on that when I get closer. Right now I am thinking I should bring a settler too. Too bad Beijing is one tile inland and I can't reach it with the Dromons. The settler should draw out some of the spears or pikes to pillage my tiles. This might make taking the city easier.

Let us hope the Zulu do not decide to strike first.

1050 AD - Hello privateers. You can tell they are Zulu but they are sinking my Dromons. I lost four this turn. It scared me for a turn or two but the plan continues. I have a serious inclination to take out the Romans first, but I need astronomy so I must continue on my quest.

1070 AD - Rome decides to declare war on us. We take the opportunity to remove one of their island cities. I successfully removed them from their city around 1100 AD. All 10 citizens are resisting but I need to hold on until I have a settler to put a new city in its place.

This is not easy. I have made myself accustomed to holding all the cards and the AI definitely has some right now. The Mongols are teeming with units. The Zulu have cavalry and will probably have riflemen very soon. A couple of my islands are very weakly defended, and Zulu ships pass by constantly. I don't have any musketmen yet. And there is no one to blame but myself if it does not work out. This is the adventure of Sid I guess. I feel like I am out of my Civ comfort zone.

1160 AD - Rome still not acknowledging our envoy. Eight citizens still resisting.

1230 AD - Made peace with Rome. They had nothing to give so I just made peace. Their citizens had stopped resisting. I have been starving them out and built one Roman worker. Waiting patiently for the AI to declare war on each other. Sadly the Zulu and Mongols made peace the prior turn.

1260 AD - Our lone Roman city culture flipped back - one round after peace. Yikes had to declare war on them again. This time I razed it.

1275 AD - We pass the Mongols for 2nd place. The migration south for Operation Great Library is underway. The little piggy will be surprised (sorry I can't resist calling Mao the little piggy). We still manage around 80 extra gold per turn, and have well over 2000 in the kitty.

Recent turns have been tedious as all I have been doing is building longbows, moving spears up to north island to upgrade to pikes, and moving longbows and pikes through the seas on the long trek to China. The troops are massing on the southern tile of free space on a medium size island to my west that I share with one Zulu (former Roman) city. From there it will be about 5-6 turns to get to China. I have several workers that are idling, and I am moving them to the north island to lock up all the tiles to ensure no one can invade until marines.

1295 AD - Ouch the Zulu have infantry. The Mongols demand 100 gold and we give it. One thing at a time here. The pile is getting larger.

1330 AD - Landed a couple units in Zululand on China border. It proved too tempting as the little piggy declared war on us!

1345 AD - Zululand declares war on China. Oh crap there goes my plan.

1350 AD - Zulu destroys China. This hurt. And caused a serious plan redraw. The ships were loaded and two turns from landing.

1355 AD - Decide to pull back and go after Rome. I made peace with Rome paying 1190 gold and collecting education. I then revisit all the cities and switch taxmen to scientists. I put science up to 90% and can research astronomy in 7 turns. I switch some of my pre-builds to university. Ugh this is a disaster.

I came so close but not close enough.

Astronomy came and that will end losses to my Dromons. I can get everywhere I need to go on sea tiles, but I need navigation to go on ocean squares. I pillaged an area on the south of Roman territory and landed my units. They have no horses but a lot of muskets, longbows and other units appeared. I was greatly outnumbered. Oh well, now I need to pillage their lands to ruin their economy while I work to improve mine.

It's a big bummer when carefully laid plans go awry, but on the other hand it can make it exciting! It feels great when you eventually overcome something that messes up your plans.
Do you have any pics to show us?

I didn't mean to post here. Sorry!

Argh! You can see the Dromons on their way. That little stack is 25+ Dromons full of units to take the GL.

:( damn you were so close... keep going zerksees you can do it!

Chapter 4 - A New Direction, Pillaging and Misdirection

1425 AD - Signed a deal with the Zulu - an alliance against Rome. I have been pillaging but do not have enough units to take a city. They have a lot of large stacks. Maybe some Zulu units will help deplete their forces. At least I can hope the Zulu will not attack me. With astronomy I can trade dyes to the Zulu and collect 9 gpt as part of the deal.

1430 AD - Land my stack on Roman territory for the second time (10 pikes and 30+ longbow). Bombed out all the roads except one I can't reach and land on a mountain top. Made sure only units from the one city could reach that turn. To my surprise no one attacks from the city just two tiles away. But too many units are around, and even fortified the regular pike only wins about 60% of the time, and considering about 60 longbows were in range for next turn, we all got back in our boats.

Back at home I am building caravels, upgrading to pikes and will have banking in 7-8 turns. I start some bank prebuilds.

1465AD - Finally hit pay dirt. In 1460 I had stripped all improvements away around Neapolis, landed all my units to the north of the city, and bombed all units in the city to 1 hit point (1 musket and 4 spears). To my surprise the musket left, and in 1465 I took the city. Rather than raze I kept it for a chance at two units they had nearby. Sold all the improvements except the barracks, which I will sell before abandon. I am trying to farm elites and leaders. I think I'll keep it one turn and see who shows up on my doorstep.

1485 - Zulus take a Roman city. Not sure how long it will last, but I think I am going to pull my units off soon so all Roman units go there.

1490 - Take Pisae, and as a bonus my elite longbow generates my second leader of the game. Create army in nearby Pisae and put two pikeman in it. Shortly thereafter I rzed the city.

I now plan to move my units off the continent to see if the Romans can knock the Zulu off the continent.

This plan failed. The Romans would not attack infantry in the cities. So whenever a cavalry landed and was exposed the whole group would gravitate towards it like urchins in the sea. This is obviously not going to help me win the game.

1515 AD - So I decided to build a city on the southern tip of Rome's landmass and let them come and get me. The strip is narrow so my 40+ Dromons can bombard them on the approach, and there is a Zulu city north of me that they will have to pass by. Sadly, the urchin effect keeps pulling them away.

The new plan is to take the next northern city from Rome and plant a settler on the incense nearby. I plan to build a road on one tile and put the army in the city. This will be my elite/leader farm for a while.

1550 AD - Took Rome's 3rd last city. Units all around - only five in the city. My pike army kept them from attacking. So I made peace collecting magnetism for 80 gpt. This game my reputation has been built on treachery, so no sense changing now! Do you really think I am going to pay that? Sorry Caesar the war is back on! Also have been seeing Zulu aircraft carriers and bombers. At least I have magnetism and my two luxuries are now being shared across most of my civilization.

Rome has taken a couple cities back from the Zulu - finally the Romans decided to attack them. They have so many units that even when they had only 3 cities, my military is weak compared to them. Did get another leader.

1595 AD - The futility of this game is starting to set in. Recently the Zulu signed a MA with the Mongols against Rome. About four turns later the Zulu declared war on the Mongols. I have been working to get a leader. From New Fort Rome, I have been bombarding the smaller stacks and taking them out, so far with very few losses. However it has not been providing me with the elites I need to generate more armies. The Zulu are way over half the power bar, and they no longer want to trade with us. Could be because I stiffed the Romans again - at least that is my hope. They have 50% of the land and almost 40% of the population. We are at 30/30. Furthermore, the Romans finally decided to attack New Fort Rome. I have a library there but no barracks or walls yet. I was lulled into safety as they have not been attacking. Ouch. Fortunately there first attack failed. Now there are two 30+ high stacks on the door. I am going to hit one with all my bombardment power and try to hold out against the other. Walls will be out next turn.

The anomalous attack ended with no further incidents. In fact the Romans took back a couple of their cities and for a short time put up another city. I tried my best to get leaders from knocking out their stacks, but so far have only 3 elites to show for it. Several 20+ high stacks have been knocked out. I guess RNG is catching up with me.

We started building some cities of our own - the first south of New Fort Rome and then another on top of incense not far from Rome.

Chapter 5 - Goodbye Caesar

1635 AD - We are still in second place. I grow weary of the Romans. Their units are now nowhere near my territory and are not helping me with leader farming. The close calls with their sizeable stacks of doom are no longer fun. I need their land so I can support more units. I plan to move more settlers over to the new world and take out Rome itself. It has the Great Lighthouse but I can't afford the culture flip so it has to go. If I get lucky and it is the last city I will keep it. Caesar still will not acknowledge my envoy. Not my fault he took that GPT deal. Anyway soon I will have the incense hooked up and happiness will increase in my fair land.

As far as end game:

It is clear the Zulu are way in the lead. They completed theory of evolution and I am sure they will have tanks soon. Bombers scare me more as they will be able to attack my navy with them. My plan now is to keep them busy attacking everyone else, and hope they do not have any uranium. If they do I am sure they will launch the spaceship, and I might try some ROP violation to take the capital after 9 pieces are complete.

1675 AD - Been working to eliminate the Romans, making very little headway. The good news is that I have a couple good opportunities to farm elites - no leaders still. They have too many units still, although less than before. The Zulu and Romans keep trading two cities. Both can take but neither can keep. I am sure the Romans are losing more units than they can produce. I now have a road to the edge of my territory and can land directly next to Rome. There is one road left going in and out of Rome and I need to pillage that - then I should be able to take it out, because Rome will not be able to resupply their defenses in one turn. There were at least 8 muskets in there last time I hit them with Dromons. I guess the elite farming will continue until the time is right.

Finally learned theory of gravity and got nationalism as our free tech. The same turn our saltpeter ran out.


1695 AD - Finally our military is average compared to Rome. For whatever reason the Romans approach us for peace. They will give a city but I refuse. Then the Zulu land tanks next to that city. In 1700 AD we collect a city for peace.

1715 AD - Our military now strong compared to Rome. Zulu has two stacks of units outside but there are 60+ units in Rome. Need to have them weed it down a bit. Made a trade with Rome - gave them nationalism for chivalry and military tradition. I seem to have caught up with the Mongols in tech - now working on communism at minimum research. All extra scientists to taxmen. Hope the Mongols are working on something else. They have steam power which I am guessing they will trade for communism when I get it. Zulu have been in fascism for a long time. I can hope this slows their culture a little bit.

1745 AD - Mongols extorted dyes from us. We gave it since I want to have peace with them and trade techs with them. It hurts a little but this is survival. Zulu just entered modern times so we are a full age behind. I also have noticed for a long time that they have gold, a little over 2000 at the moment, so quite apparently they are not bankrupting themselves with unit support costs. This is certainly not what I expected at the start of the game. At some point in the game they must reach a large enough size that they will not bankrupt themselves. Let this be a warning to all who assume the AI will drown under unit support.

1750 AD - We waited one turn too long and the Zulu took Rome.

Wow the Zulu are looking really dangerous now, maybe a 'catching the runaway Sid AI' article is on the cards ;)

This is very exciting. I hope you can pull off the comeback.

Yes, this is a good game. Too bad you don't have any other superpowers to allign with.

Chapter 6: Grim Reality

1756 AD - We traded silks to Zulu for 31gpt. Also recently readjusted the specialists to science, cut luxury slider to 0%, and will complete communism in 19 turns.

The bad news is the Zulu have 98699 culture. We can't afford a war with Mongols, since they would be keeping the Zulu from winning on culture. It looks like the Mongols have a little bit more than half of the Zulu culture but it won't last for long. This game is going to be over soon.

1758 AD - Zulu at 99434 culture. Looks real bad. I am sending some units to their land to fill in the rest of the map - We still have ROP with them.

1762 AD - Zulu declare war on us. I was hoping to avoid this indignity but there is no escape. Now I must use my old outdated units to try to stop them. First MPP with the Mongols. Gave them incense for MPP. Bad idea since I lost control of it in just a few turns, but they are in the war nonetheless.

1770 AD - Abandoning cities on Rome's island one by one. Just can't stand up to the bombers. Gave New Fort Rome to the Mongols to get my units out of there. It even transported my ships back to the capital. I lost two of my armies there - mostly to continuous bomber bombardment. I lost my other army on the western island I had shared with the Zulu for some time. Nothing fancy, just one Zulu tank was required to take out my pike army.

1784 AD - The bitter end. Zulus capture culture victory with over 103,000 culture. They scored 4500+ and I made 3778. To my surprise, history will remember me as Theodora "the Magnificent". I guess second place is magnificent on Sid level.

Chapter 7: Post Game Analysis

Over later part of the game it became obvious that my Byzantine empire was too far behind to keep up with the Zulu. I have played from an age behind before, but that was at Regent level. Being an age behind is probably savable with better circumstances, but I had only the Romans and Mongols to trade with, and in the end I passed the Romans and the Mongols only had one or two tech I did not have. I suppose reaching modern times in the 1700's is not too fast a tech pace, but it was for me in this case.

Looking at the map, I can see the Zulu main land was way larger than ours. We lacked saltpeter and iron on our main island, and furthermore we needed astronomy before we could get them.

Looking at my game plan, I should not have traded alphabet to China or anyone. I am not sure why they researched literature but they did. My early game play was weak too and I should have expanded faster. The only thing the GL should cost me is production from one city. I still need to research techs.

For the next game, I would like to make some adjustments.

First, I plan to forget always war. There will probably be a lot of war, but I am not going to make it mandatory. I will certainly not break deals at the start like I did this game.

I am thinking about cranking down the aggression level. This could allow two AI to live together on a continent.

Search for a better starting location, or at least a game where the AI are not sharing a continent.

I think I could have used fewer land units in my invasions, at least through the middle ages. Need to keep cash flow up and keep up in tech.

So, when are you going to start that next game?

So, when are you going to start that next game?

I have been a little slow to publish so this game has been done for a couple weeks or so. Actually I have spent a lot of time since then trying to find the right game settings and map that will allow me to get through Sid. I am close to giving up on the Byzantines entirely, as I have had a tough time with them.

So the better question is when will I finish the next game. I don't know for sure but I have a game with promise going right now, along with a few others in various stages of completion.

The current game is standard map, 80% water with 4 AI (Egypt, America, Arab and Zulu) on lowest aggression, warm, wet, 5 billion year old earth. It is around 300 AD and I have be Great Lighthouse, the Great Library and just entered the middle ages. The forbidden palace is done and I am a fairly new monarchy. I am a little concerned because I do not have many units - about 50. I do have 28 cities and am on par with the tech leader - Egypt. I have taken a page from Moonsinger's book and have been trading techs, and paying gpt to keep them from building up a cash stockpile. Remarkably all the AI are polite to me. The GLH ensures me a bunch more land as the AI will not be able to get the land until they learn astronomy. There is a good chance that none of them have met each other yet.

I have 4000+ gold and am gaining over 100 gpt from the golden age. Sadly the golden age came at the completion of the Great Library, and I was still in despotism. I had planned to trigger it with the Dromons. Rather than be despotic for 20 turns I gambled and went into anarchy for 6 turns. Before anarchy I had +75 gpt and afterward +112 gpt.

My core is not that great, as I am on the south edge of a landmass with tundra nearby. I do have 3 luxuries on the island and extras of all of them so I will be able to trade them once astronomy is known. Also I just landed a settler next to one of 3 known iron sources in the world. Two of the AI do not have iron.

Producing lots of units is going to be a problem. I am going to try it now that the main wonders are built. I have to do some analysis on how much time I have left (before astronomy) and how many units I need to develop for defense and for invasion.

I am considering building a new palace at a better location on my main landmass. Since I have few improvements in my cities it won't cost me much.

I have been very patient with MM and on the F3 screen. I have still missed the mm a few times and had anarchy in various cities. I am trying to track what is going on like it is a succession game. This helps keep me from making mistakes by focusing too much on one part of the game.

This game is on Sid? :eek:

This game is on Sid? :eek: Yes it is. Your thoughts?

It's great if you can do this on Sid. I read somewhere that the game is coded so that you can't get the GL on Sid :lol:.
What civ are you playing? Byzantines?
The map is Archipelago (I'm almost sure it is!)?
4000+ gold is fantastic. Last time I had something like that was 1 year ago when I was playing on Chieftain.
In Archipelago games corruption is a great problem, because your cities are spawned all over the world, but the GLH and a seafaring civ gives you some advantages.

Edit: of course you're playing with the Byz. You said that you wanted to trigger GA with Dromons.

All of that corruption is a big disadvantage for a large civilization. This does put more fun into some of these games that the smaller civs can pick you off.

Oh thats a dissapointment, oh well you fought admirably, the biggest comeback I've ever succesfully made was from the mid Middle Ages to catch the AI that already had their Apollo program finish to win a diplomatic victory on diety but that involved me capturing the GL and getting catapulted to parity. I think if you'd managed to get the GL off of china before the zulu captured then you could have pulled off the comeback... maybe... I wouldnt even venture to try sid so I'm in awe of you. I hope you can pull it off eventually and I hope you share it all with us!

I have to correct my last post - I only had about 3300 gold at 300 AD - not sure where the 4000 came from. In subsequent turns I have made it over 5000 gold, though I spent some of it to cash rush a few things and upgrade some units.

It is now in the 600's. I built a stack of 26 spears which I upgraded to pikeman and took to America along with a couple warriors, a horseman and a settler. As soon as I entered American waters I was forced to declare war. I landed the units and bombed a few tiles around to minimize the hits I would take before the pikes could fortify. To my surprise the Americans have pikemen. I quickly located their iron and disconnected it with Dromon fire.

I was very surprised that the AI did not attack my unfortified pikes on a hill. On the second turn I fortified the pikes and created the city, using a warrior and gold to rush barracks. I lost 4 pikemen and Abe lost about 8 units - archers and horsemen. To my delight the barracks took effect immediately and the all the units were healed.

The next turn I used the second warrior and gold to rush walls. I took out about 20 units this time and lost 4 pikes. I did have a couple reinforcement ships so I have 22 pikes, a couple archers and a horsemen. 3 elite pikes in the group waiting to help make leaders.

Unfortunately the Egyptians have astronomy, which means they are on the sea tiles. They used this new technology to sneal attack me. So far I have lost two cities and more are threatened. The first caravel appeared just before I declared on America. Since they do not have engineering yet I think it will be a while before galleons and frigates, so with enough Dromons in the main shipping lanes I think I can get it under control.

I am really annoyed with the Egyptians (and myself) right now. I should have adjusted my plans the minute I saw that caravel.

I plan to let my pikes do their job in America and create some leaders, while buliding ships and other units to stop the Egyptian problems, then resume the assault on America. If I can get peace from them at a reasonable cost I might take it if I do not get control of the seas by then.

I had been building medieval infantry to put under the first army to take out the American cities, but first I need to reclaim the spots where I lost cities and gain control of the seas, and those medieval infantry are on patrol to thwart any landings on the main island.

So it looks like you can handle Sid! I hope you continue this game and tell us that you WON it :).

Maybe 4000 gold came from the year a normal game starts in?

It remains to be seen if I can handle Sid. I played four or five turns last night. I got two great leaders from my now-elite pikemen. I have been losing about 1 pikeman a turn during this exchange. The first leader is now an army of pikemen tearing up the inland American improvements, and the other has been converted to an army and is waiting for a Dromon ride back to the mainland.

America will pay 196 gold and 30 gpt for peace, but I am not going to take it. I want them out of the game so I can get their land. I will gain silks, iron and horses to trade.

It is safe to say that I now control the seas - at least until magnetism. The Egyptians did take one size 2 city on an island (the two they took the other day were autorazed). Once I take that back from them I plan to make peace and then place the new army full of pikes on their territory. I'll sign ROP if I have to. Then I plan to steal some techs from them to get them to declare war. If I have one pike army inserted, I can land more units under it later and assemble more armies. It should be safe until they get tanks.
I plan to tear up every improvement they have with my army, and maybe that will slow them down a little.

I need to get a stack of 10 med inf, take out the Egyptian city on my island, then head on over to America to start whacking their cities. A little bait and run, 10 med inf under an army should be enough to start taking cities.

I did learn theology so now I have to decide if I am going to give away the GL or not. Right now the techs are trickling in because the Arabs, Zulu and Americans are not building new techs very fast. The Egyptians are way ahead. Pretty soon they will have gunpowder. I am just not sure if giving it away will beneift enough to make up for the lost produciton.

I hope I can win this. This game has been keeping me up at night. Noooo. I am not addicted!

Update: It is 950 AD. I have taken out four of America's seven cities. They have dropped two more but they are still small. Clearing the two cities bordering my beachhead town has hopefully relieved the culture flip pressure there. They have virtually no tile improvements left. I am confident enough that I formed a second city to the south. I can probably expose a weak unit in the south, then switch to expose a weak unit in the north to keep their units vascillating back and forth while I wipe out the remaining cities. All the razing has given me lots of slave workers, which I have used to landlock several islands I own - at least until marines. (Every tile on the main landmass has been improved as much as possible for this phase of the game.)

The Egyptians are getting ahead. They are at least four techs ahead. Recently their caravels started traveling the ocean tiles, before they completed Magellan Voyage. They landed a coordinated attack, dropping 12 units on my land in one place (one longbowman, on spear the rest war chariots attacking at 2). I took out three of them, and placed units to defend, but decided to make peace and initiate the next part of my plan. I signed ROP with them in exchange for peace. Two of the armies from the American wars have made their way to the home landmass. I put them and four pikes on Dromons headed to Egypt. I am going to land and assemble the armies. Then I am going to use some of my 4000+ gold to steal techs from them until I get caught, and then pillage all their improvements. I just completed invention (50 turn research), and I wanted to complete that before signing peace so I could steal gunpowder.

The GL ran out and I did not give it away in time. Since only Egypt is producing techs I suspected taking it back would be of little use anyway.

So far Egypt and Arabs have met, but the Zulu and Americans know only us. We have 29% of the landmass and 30% of the population, and the Egyptians have 29% and 31%, respectively. The good news is they do not have saltpeter, and their iron must not be hooked up to their cities yet.

I have over 200 units and am spending a considerable amount in unit support.

I am going to let peace with Egypt continue for a while and focus on finishing the Americans and populating their landmass.

I still do not know if I can win but the saga continues.

It was good to read more! Why aren't you posting any pics?

It was good to read more! Why aren't you posting any pics?
I am playing the game at home and writing at work at lunch. Also game PC not connected to internet at home. Internet PC connected at 28.8 and the picture upload won't work (I suspect AOL). So to get picture I have to go either put them on transferable media or email them to myself and upload at work. I should probably post one or two so you can see the map.

Sounds like things are going well. Pics would be great, if possible.

OK had a great session last night. It is 1070 AD and the Americans are no longer in the game. I succeeded in removing them from all their cities, keeping the last two for myself. What a confidence boost! As they got spread out there were dozens of American spears and pikes hopelessly chasing slave workers, settlers, archers or spears that I would place just out of reach turn after turn. They only have about 5 units in each city and the rest roam the countryside unable to resist the bait that I put out for them. Even as 15+ medieval infantry stood outside the capital under a pike army, the units would shuffle out and chase the bait. You will see from the pic that I built a city just SE of New York that gave me access to a small lake. I sent 20+ dromons through that city into the lake to bomb all the defenders down to one HP before starting the assault.

Byzantine power is growing, but Egyptian culture is also growing. The Arabs learned astronomy, and used it to cross the seas and declare war on Egypt, then on us. Fortunately they had some extra gold and put it in our bank in exchange for gpt. Since they declared war it is not safe to continue paying them so we are keeping the gold, probably around 100 gold or so. Egypt has had some extra gold and they gave me their gold in exchange for gpt. I will keep doing this to control the cash.

The Egyptians have not been exploring much, and have not found the American island. I believe it will be all Byzantine in one or two more turns as I am moving settlers into position. I hope to get the silks hooked up soon to improve happiness throughout my empire.

The Arabs offensive included six units landing on the landmass just north of the main landmass, which had practically no units on it. I spent some gold rushing pikemen in most of the cities and started ferrying over some knights and med. inf and whatever else I could find. I have recovered all the cities except one and his two or three spears are going to have trouble with my 2 med. inf and three knights, assisted by the Dromons ("firing boats" as my son calls them).

Regardless of the outcome, I know I can beat at least one Sid AI.

I think Egypt is the next target. She has a lot of small landmasses which should improve my chances of withstanding the initial assault and taking the cities. There is so much planning to do. The short version: ICS fill the American landmass, hook up silk, get astronomy, get out of the Arab war ASAP and get ready for Egyptian war.

Pics to follow. You will see from the pic that I built a city just SE of New York that gave me access to a small lake. I sent 20+ dromons through that city into the lake to bomb all the defenders down to one HP before starting the assault.

These are pics from the start of the game and from 1070 AD - as in American Defeat.

When we last last our intrepid hero, the Americans had just departed the game. The Arabs had broken ROP and taken some cities. They also declared war on Egypt.

In 1090 AD the mighty Byzantine army removed the Arab pesitlence from our fine territory, making peace with them in 1100 AD. Also in 1100 our spies stole gunpowder from Egypt and traded it to the Arbas for astronomy. A full scale effort to populate former American lands is underway.

In 1130 AD we chose to found a city in the marshy area at the north end Egypt's secondary landmass. The marsh is large enough that their cultural borders do not reach the north end forming a resistance free beachhead for me! So the buildup begins. This landmass will be known as E1 - and all cities there will be prefixed with E1.

Stole chemistry from Egypt in 1180AD. Sold it to the Arabs for navigation some gold and 8 gpt. This is big. Now the American silks reach the mainland and the people are happy.

Some steal attempts failed, I think our spies are batting .500 so far.

In the 1260's the Arabs and Egypt make peace. We are gaining 149 gold per turn at 10% lux, and gaining power on Egypt.

1300-1320 AD - our ROP with Egypt ends, and the next turn our armies are forced to withdraw. They had been strategically placed there and filled with a 3rd pikeman to do some pillaging.

Stole physics for 933 gold. Sold it to Arabs getting metallurgy.

1345 AD - Declare war on Egypt. Arabs bought in for wines and Zulu bought in for silks.

Had about three turns of attacks before their forces on this landmass were gassed. About 25 units in total. Cleo has rifleman.

The first city is Tanis. It is not a coastal city, so I took some cannons with me. In 1385 it fell and was razed, costing me just a few units.

Somewhere in here I acquired military tradition so I had a few cavalry to help with the attacks.

By 1415 four more Egyptian cities were razed. Egypts secondary landmass is now Byzantine. Another single city island was also part of the acquisition. I landlocked it with three slave workers.

By 1460 three more cities were razed. Stole magnetism from Arabs carefully for 1953 gold. Buy theroy of gravity for incense, 70 gpt and 1120 gold. Go into next age, nationalism is free tech. Sell it to Arabs for furs, music theory, 60gpt, 1130 gold. Start communism research.

Egypt culture at 55948 and gaining 392 a turn, down from over 450 a turn. We now have 45% of area and 50% of pop. Egypt has 23% and21%.

Our attack forces are dwindled a little but we want to take another secondary landmass holding two cities. I landed my attack force next to the city of Avaris, but bombardment revealed way too many units in there. So I pillaged the roads and left one medieval infantry out as bait, where the riflemen from either city could not reach it. A knight came out and took out the med. Inf., but nine riflemen came out of Avaris also. This took the defense down to about five units. In 1485 it fell and was razed. Repeated the same trick with Pithom. It took a couple turns to clean up the 14 riflemen, but after that I landlocked the landmass with slave workers. This landmass is E2.

In 1500 AD Egypt has 21% of land and 18% of pop. They have 58648 culture and +374 per turn.

Now for the business of attacking the mainland.
In 1510 I realize the galleons will carry my armies now. Start building some. In 1515 we are now #1 in score.

The plan is to cut into culture growth. Pi-Ramesses is one of the top 5 cities and has a single chokepoint connecting it to the mainland. That is my first target. In 1515 I pillaged the road on the chokepoint to Pi-Ramesses. In 1520 I landed 43 units directly next to Pi-Ramesses and a couple decoys. In 1525 about 80 Egyptian units showed up and there were too many units (at least 9 riflemen) in Pi-Ramesses to take out with my 10 or so offensive units, so I am forced to abandon this attempt.

I think in 10 turns or so I will be back to stay.

So far no Egyptian ships have attacked my Dromons. She has one source of iron which I have kept perpetually disconnected so she cannot build frigates. I need to keep it that way for about 40-50 turns and by then there will be trouble.

Let the pillaging begin.

I have a couple pics but can't upload them atm. will post asap

Sounds like you're doing great! I hope you win this, you've been my Civ idol ever since I read 'recovering from last place after expansion phase'.

Sounds like you're doing quite well!:goodjob: Eager to see some pics.

here are some pics to go with the last update.

This looks like you are doing well. Having tons of islands is about the only way you can win Sid. Keep the war up on the Egyptians!

Great game!
How are you going to win?

How are you going to win?
Conquest is my plan. If I wanted domination I would just crush Egypt, but once Egypt is under control I think I will go after the Arabs.

I usually have the habit that once I achieve a Conquest victory, I never play that level or below.
I wonder if you had the same habit, what would you do?

I have a tendency to move up once I defeat a level. Obviously that is not possible with Sid. However, this game has been stacked in my favor by the archipelago map and the the distribution of land on the map. If I want a bigger challenge I could try a random continents start and/or playing without the Byzantines.

I am interested in the Civ 3 HOF so next I will probably play a game I can submit there to improve my place in the standings. I just wanted to see what it would take to defeat Sid, and I have definitely learned a lot about that. There the challenge is to score higher than the other players, and that brings a different element to the game, as you have to defeat the game faster than the others.

A lot has happened since the last update. I keep meaning to update you guys but never have the notes at the time I want to type (like right now).

So from memory here goes:

We finally got a foothold on Egypts main landmass. I bombed out and pillaged out the roads (explorers who run out then hide under armies are very effective at this). Eventually I got control of a narrow section in the middle, using pike armies, and started a city up north. After the initial rush on the city, things calmed down and I was able to take out their cities one by one. I also sent some ships around the south and landed forces there, using some bait up north to draw the units out of the cities. When I cleared out all the cities, they still had 150+ units that found their way into a single stack. I used my armies to get that stack into a corridor along the coast and then used Dromons and cannons to redline them all and take them out. Of course the conquest before that got me a few more leaders, but this effort yielded at least two more. It took a long time (at least 8-10 turns) to redline them all but picking off unforitified redline riflemen, pikes and spears was the best way I could see to try and get some leaders. I think I have about 10-12 armies now, 2 pike, 1 rifle, one with a cav and two knights, and the rest all cavalry. I also have at least 50 cannons. In the meantime I was rushing to populate their old landmass with Byzantine cities.

During the process I mobilized the economy to get more units. Egypt's culture was expanding quickly and I needed to take down those cities before she got to 100K. Fortunately she must have mobilized too as suddenly her culture dropped from 300+ to a little over 150. Of course it was too late by then and now Cleo is resting comfortably in the mid 70K range, where she will probably be stuck until she is retired from the game.

After they were wiped off their main landmass I made peace with them, collecting two of their remaining 6 cities, which I promptly razed. I figured they could keep those small landmasses populated until I get control over these other AIs.

At some point in the war we converted to coummunism. This may be better than monarchy, but a lot of my core cities were over 50% corrupt. However cities on the islands everywhere were generating a few shields each. I am not sure this was the best move, mostly because we have way too many cities. And the domestic advisor want me to "build more cities!"?

So I decided the Arabs were next. They were close by, close in tech, and only had about 10 cities.

I spotted a city in the north that could be cut off from the others with just two armies on tiles. I blocked those tiles, landed my attack force, and bombed them out of there. I did clear off the improvements first and put a few single units on these tiles to draw some of them out of the city. There were about 10 units in there but the city fell.

In the meantime I sent a pike army with two explorers to tear up the countryside south of my army barriced. This worked very nicely. I then set up a corridor on the west edge of the island - my first "funnel of deception". Each time I moved the army at the north end and gave them access to the city, all their units would funnel in there leaving the target city weakly defended, and then subsequently razed after my capture. It probably took about 20 turns to completely eradicate them. Unlike Egypt, they were unable to plant any new cities as each time I spotted their settler, bypassed large stacks of riflemen to take out the single defender and get the settler. I kept their last city with Sun Tzu, too bad it only works for that landmass.

So after that the long trek north to Zululand begun. Actually the Zulu had broken a military alliance with me against the Arabs and declared war on us. They landed three units, never managed to attack, and their ships never made it back to port.

Even into the late 1700's they still did not have literature!

I also decided that Cleo has to go, as she is getting back to the 150 range in culture.

Feeling confident after the Arab war, and seeing Egypt ships near the former Arab landmass, I unceremoniously declared war on her.

I took two cities including Mendes, their most recent capital, then collected here remaining three cities for peace leaving only the capital, now the city of This.

We are now in the late 1850's and I just landed my first units on the Zulu landmass. I picked a spot in the middle of their landmass, where I could effectively divide them in two with just three armies. The capital is to the east, and I plan my first offensives to the west. Once a good beachhead is set up, the cites should fall pretty fast. The rest of the armies and cannons are coming, and one pike army with explorer has already started pillaging. I have been bombarding coastal tiles with frigates for a while now.

They still have two techs to go to get to industrial times. Hopefully I will do enough damage that they cannot get to riflemen until it is too late. That will shorten the game some.

As far as our techs, I researched medicine and Darwinism (what is this tech called), and I will have Theory of Evolution in about 5 turns. I will use it to get replaceable parts and espionage. I am researching atomic theory at minimum, though I doubt I will need it.

I also have a contingent of troops headed over to finish Cleo. It's my turn to break some treaties. I used this peace time to steal industrialization from her as well. She is building universal suffrage in This, at 5 spt.

This part of the game is tedious and I am sure that is why most people would pick a domination win at this time. I have over 80% of the population and 57% of the land, but I want a conquest win so the wars continue!

In 1854 the landings started on Zululand. They were a long way north and it took forever to get there.

In 1862 dropped some bait and most Zulu units went for it. In 1864 the first Zulu city fell. In 1866 I redeclared on Cleo and took her last city.

Somewhere in here Theory of Evolution was completed and we got replaceable parts and espionage.

In 1876 the cavalry armies start arriving on the Zulu mainland. Landing most of them on a narrow strip of land to the west. Since their units have been baited away there is room to land between the cities. Zulu cities are about to start falling.

1878 AD - With support from dromons and frigates, cavalry armies attack and Umfolozi and Umtata are converted to rock piles.

I tried a little experiment. Rather than deceiving the Zulu and taking all their cities, I decided to make a city and take them head on. I formed a city on a hill at the north center of their landmass, rushed a barracks in turn 1 of the city. On the following IBT, 38 of their best units (med. inf. longbow and knights) perished, 23 Impis and 2 archers. we lost two riflemen. Problem was there were at least two hundred more right outside and the walls would not be up to assist. I have a few pike armies and a couple rifle armies but did not want to lose my stack, so I abandon the city. The Zulu were winning the battle at this point. I had about 10 infantry and some other reinforcements two turns away so I planned to regroup. At least some of the cannon got upgraded to artillery before the city was abandoned.

1880 AD - In the west, Tugela and Swazi fall victim to the Byzantine cavalry blitz. The artillery at the north base starts firing. I smiled when I heard it for the first time. Put out some bait to pull the Zulu units away from the north camp.

1882 AD - Another Zulu city in the west falls. Sad I can't remember what it was called.

1884 AD - Finally all units clear the tiles immediately around the north base camp. I put armies on each of the four tiles effectively blocking it from Zulu hordes. Formed a new north base camp city and rushed walls. Get to work on the Zulu stacks with artillery and cavalry. I probably have about 30 free cavalry there in various states of healed. I think I took out about 15 units.

1886 AD - Rushed barracks in north camp city and took another 10-15 units with arty and cavalry. Moved the army on the northwest back into the city to draw in the Zulu hordes.

1888 AD - Rush harbor. Upgrade more cannon. Keep about 500 gold onhand to upgrade riflemen to infantry. The intelligence agency is completed. Plant a spy in Zimbabwe.

Now the Zulu have 6 cities left. They have 662 units, including 292 medieval infantry, 102 longbows, 98 musket, 76 Impi and other misc units. We only have 552 units, which includes over 100 ships. Our military is average compared to them.

The Zulu lose 24 units in my attacks and their counterattacks this turn, costing me three units. Most of the attacks are at north base camp.

1890 AD - Zulu loses 42 units at a cost of 2 units. Mpondo falls and rifles are upgraded to infantry at north base camp

1892 AD - The attacks are warming up as the Zulu lose 65 units at a cost of one unit. Ulundi falls

1894 AD - I am able to take out 30 Zulu units with artillery and cavalry stacks. These come from the smallest of three stacks right outside the walls of north base camp. On the counter attack, the massive Zulu horde attacked with impunity. They lost. 124 Zulu units met their demise at a cost of 6 Byzantine units. No armies were lost, though they were redlined. This is the peak of their attacks.

1896 AD - Zulu have three cities left. Moving armies in range. At north base camp another 56 Zulu units perish costing us 0 units.

1898 AD - Intombe and Hlobane fall, and another 35 units perish costing us zero. Some of those were in the cities that fell. Move armies toward Zimbabwe. Spied on it and found only three military units in there. The Zulu still have 292 units but only three defenders of their last city. I have had enough of this experiment.

1900 AD - Two riflemen and a musket perish to the Byzantine cavalry armies and the game is over!

History will remember me as zerkess the "magnificent".

The pics are from the demise of Abu and the end of the game.

I hope this writeup is helpful to my fellow Civers. Happy gaming

Woohoo! The Zulu go down again! Good Job!:band:

Great win zerk!

Congratulations, zerksees! :woohoo:

Thanks guys.

Time will tell what the long term effects are :crazyeye: