Ucel1 - Noble Atheist [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

ucel

Nov 11, 2005, 04:05 PM

11) 3600 BC Scout took next 24 gold, Warrior experience. We are rich!!!
12) 3560 BC Strange news came to our tribe. Someone has founded "hinduism" whatever that means... And our warrior is now Woodsman II. I renamed him to "Lucky Guy" :). I conduct the exploration with the scout towards SW and warrior towards NW.
13) 3520 BC While exploring Lucky Guy found the next hut and some lions. I fortify and wait what they do.
14) 3480 BC Of course they attacked. Woodsman II in the forest :). Lucky guy took next 41 gold from the hut and I moved him back to the forest. He'll have to heal there. Scout didn't find anything interesting.
15) 3440 BC Nothing
16) 3400 BC We know the wheel. So now it's time to learn how to build these bloody cottages. Pottery due to 7. I switched the production to Barracks. We have to change it to Worker when city becomes 3.
17) 3360 BC What is this bloody Buddhism?
18) 3320 BC Our scout found some sugar and some lions to the south...
19) 3280 BC Lucky Guy can move again! And he found some furs. It seems we are in the north path of the map. But I still haven't found anybody...
20) 3240 BC Some lions near Lucky Guy. Since he already 5XP I didn't attract them (you cannot gain more than 5 XP from animals). Scout is exploring south.

Our situation: Could it be we are alone on the continent?
Next turn Moscow will be 3. We have to change barracks to worker there. We have to learn Ani soon - Moscow is now 6 : 5 in health (-3 from flood plains).
I propose: Worker->Warrior->Settler->Wonder in Moscow. The best would be Stonehenge or Pyramids.

Thrar - it's your turn!

Panth

Nov 11, 2005, 09:05 PM

forest adds +0,5, floodplains -0,4 ;)

You are correct, Yoshi. I was just reading through the manual and noticed that. I didn't realize they were fractional effects before.

Thrar

Nov 12, 2005, 02:11 AM

got it, will play in a couple of hours

Thrar

Nov 12, 2005, 02:20 AM

one thing i'd like to discuss: why build (many) cottages at this point? Imo, we already get lots of cash thanks to the rivers, and what we need is health to grow.
My suggestion would be to research hunting next to hook up the deer, then fishing and place our second city on the coast. There are even floodplains near the coast, so both of those cities could get huge food incomes with farms, and give us great settler and worker production. Of course, afterwards we should get some production cities going.
I don't have much time at the moment, so I'll have a detailed look later. What's your opinion?

ucel

Nov 12, 2005, 03:04 AM

I think we are alone on the continent. That means mu must rush astronomy to make contact with another civs and trade some techs. And that means we need every single piece of golde for the research :(. Luckily we can last longer on the deficit because of rich goody huts. We can need some more gold, so I propose to pop the huts only with scout. And I'm agree that Hun->Ani should be our next techs.

regoarrarr

Nov 12, 2005, 06:21 AM

One reason to build cottages is that every cottage on the river gives us 3 gold (an extra gold due to our financial trait)

ucel

Nov 12, 2005, 06:54 AM

My fault, I haven't read Thrar's post carefully :). Really there is no point to spam cottages now. Let's build one and then camp on the deer. Don't forgot the road ;). The settler will be built soon, so we cannot use more than one cottage to this time.

===================================

I'm out till Sunday evening (CET). But don't afraid to play without me ;).

Thrar

Nov 12, 2005, 10:52 AM

first, I had a look at our position:
2 warriors (1 with woodsman II, one on garrison), 1 scout
4 forests around Moscow -> chop at most one to keep health!
Lots of floodplains. We have a huge potential for growth and settler/worker production. Why did we start on the barracks? Since we're alone on the island, it is of no use for us in the near future, I would have preferred another warrior. Doesn't make a huge difference though, I think.

So, here are my turns:

(1) lucky guy going westwards, leaving those lions alone (5xp already, like you said)
after deciding not to take advantage of the double movement, i move the scout in the jungle. Looks like there's some kind of southern peninsula.

IBT - forest grows near Moscow. Since we have five times 0.4 now, that means an extra health!

(2) Moscow grows to 3. Some more moving around, and made a decision: Moscow will grow one more to 4, then produce worker, grow again to 5 (!) since the worker can hook up the deer in time, then build settler. In between we build the warrior that will later escort the settler.
For now, I switch from barracks to warrior, who later will escort the settler.

calculations for that:
Worker -> Settler now takes us 10 turns for the worker, then another 14 (roughly, I didn't exactly calculate the outcome of terrain improvements) for the settler, ends in 25 turns. Another 4 turns later we could have a warrior to excort it, so the settler leaves in 28, with Moscow at size 3 1/2.
size 4 -> Worker -> size 5 -> Settler takes 5 turns for each growth, 9 for the worker, 10 for the settler. Means 29 turns. While growing, we can build a warrior, so we will move to our next settlement in 29 turns.
If I did that correctly, we trade 1 or 2 turns on our second settlement for 2 pop points on our first one, including all the commerce that comes from it.
Considering the situation we are in, and the fact that we'll produce mostly settlers for a while (and growing later would slow down every subsequent settler), I go with the first option.

(3) Pottery finished. I wonder what to research next, we'll need both fishing and sailing (lighthouses) for the coastal second town, but there would be time to squeeze in another tech before (now: fishing in 4, sailing another 10). I think there's nothing we need now, so I go for fishing.

(4) Lucky Guy got attacked by wolves (down to 1.8), and sees another hut.

(5) Lucky Guy pops another 46 gold. We're damn rich! ;)

(6) Moscow expands its borders. Several lions around in the south. Gives some view of the north, looks quite barren though.

(7) Moscow grows to size 5. Switch build to worker (9 turns, working only floodplains). 10 hammers left on warrior. The worker should produce an overflow of 3, and we need 5 more turns to grow when it finishes. Leaves us with 13 when the second growth is done. Also researched fishing, sailing in 8 now (thanks to the extra gold from growth).

(8) nothing happened.

(9) see above.

(10) guess what? Yes, nothing. Oh wait, lucky guy found the west coast I think.

http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~s0500422/images/Civ4/Ucel1/Ucle1-1.jpg

Thrar

Nov 12, 2005, 11:14 AM

IBT - Scout on a hill kills a lion, but barely (0.2). I decide not to rest, it would take 9 turns to full health, and we can retreat if we meet something on the first movement point.

(11) nothing. Scout goes down southern peninsula, Lucky Guy along the coast.

(12) Scout popped archery from a hut in the south.

(13) Lions next to Lucky Guy. Since I'm not at full health, I stay in the forest and rest.

IBT - lion attacks, Lucky Guy down to 1.7. I'll rest for one turn.

(14) Sailing finished. I go for Bronze Working, mostly because I have no better idea, and it's on the path that eventually leads to optics. DO NOT use this to chop the forests near Moscow, we need EVERY SINGLE ONE of them for health!
Scout reaches what seems to be the tip of the southern peninsula.

(15) Worker finished, will improve the deer (for health and +2 food). Lucky guy up at 1.9, back on the road.

(16) Worker starts camp (4 turns), will be finished just when Moscow grows. No need for road, is connected by the river. Lucky guy pops another hut, gets experience.

(17) Combat I for Lucky Guy. Wolves appear near Moscow, I move the warrior to protect the worker on the deer, if necessary.

(18) Lucky Guy and the scout kind of meet. Not in person, but their explored lands. There are some open ends, particularly in the west and south, but this seems pretty much what we have to live with. And yes, we seem to be alone.

http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~s0500422/images/Civ4/Ucel1/Ucle1-2.jpg

(19) Lucky Guy heading back west, to explore the open end. Scout will go south. Pasture can already be worked - that's one turn earlier than I expected. As mentioned, the river connects it automatically to Moscow. Some city micro makes Moscow grow next turn, while providing enough shields to finish the warrior, and even giving two in excess that can be used on the settler (in queue).

(20) Worker moves back to the floodplains. Note that I didn't bother with building a road now, the river is all we need. We can build a farm every 4 turns (don't bother with roads!), which should speed up our settler by another one or two turns.
Since we have two warriors near Moscow now, I send one of them to the northern tundra. Remember to get him back in time for the settler!

Moscow city:
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~s0500422/images/Civ4/Ucel1/Ucle1-3.jpg

Our neighborhood:
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~s0500422/images/Civ4/Ucel1/Ucle1-4.jpg

Some more thoughts on further strategy:
I recommend farming 4 floodplains now, then mine one of the hills. Since we have the chance, we should try not to use any tile that does not give at least 4 food/hammers and 1 gold. Considering that we have such a huge continent to fill, imo cottages are of no use for us at the moment (or any time soon). Once we get enough cities, think about it, but I think we got a great settler factory here, which we should use! Also note that we can't grow any more without extra health (the fish from the second city should allow that, then grow to 6), my suggestion would be: build settlers/workers, and get those warriors from other cities.
Imo: Moscow should build settlers til the end of the world. The next city on the coast should still have lots of food (see below), also nice commerce on the water, and production similar to Moscow. The third city should focus on military protection, so our settlers from Moscow and City II don't have to go without escorts. After that I think we have lots of more options.

Here are some options for the second city:
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~s0500422/images/Civ4/Ucel1/Ucle1-5.jpg

Only these 3 positions can reach the fish, so I didn't consider any others.
The upper one gets two flood plains, and is built on a plains/hill, which means one extra production in the city square.
The middle one doesn't get that extra hammer, but can later use the mined hill which evens that out. It trades a plains square for one more coast tile.
The lower one is built directly on one of the floodplains, which wastes that growth potential. In addition, it has lots of water around, and one more desert. The weakest imo.
My choice would clearly be the first, upper one, for good growth and one free shield right from the day we found it.

The only road we should build is the route from Moscow to City II, so it would be good to have the worker in that area when the farm-building is done. I really wouldn't bother with roads now, the more farms we get built, the faster we get to our settler(s)!

Panth

Nov 12, 2005, 01:26 PM

My vote personally, is for the middle of those 3 as I noted before. Long term, the upper choice isn't going to provide much production, where the middle one will give two hills to mine. Middle also gives a higly defensible position because we can fortify troops on that hill forcing any potential attacker to either attack hill-fortified troops or across a river to take it. Less importantly probably, middle postition has zero overlap with moscow.

Edit: good turns by the way. Excellent exploration and I agree fully with your management decisions.

MadDogTrebonius

Nov 12, 2005, 03:22 PM

lurker's comment: FWIW, none of them overlap with Moscow.

Thrar

Nov 13, 2005, 02:39 AM

Some more on the second city (considering only the upper two placements):

upper one:
starts with 2/2/x (I'm not sure about how much gold, but should be equal)
land in range:
3 grassland
5 plains (2 w/ forest)
2 desert
2 floodplain
1 grassland hill
7 water.

lower one:
starts with 2/1/x.
land in range:
3 grassland
3 plains (1 w/ forest)
2 desert
2 floodplain
1 grassland hill
1 plains hill
8 water

difference:
upper: 1 plains, 1 plains w/ forest, 1 more hammer in city tile.
lower: 1 plains hill, 1 water, 2 workable tiles more w/o river.

Imo, that 1 more hammer in the city tile is the most important thing for my decision to put the city on the hill. This benefits from the very first turn, and later we lose 1 production (comparing mined hill with workshop plains) on a different tile, which is equalized by this one.
That's why I don't see where we lose production in the long run, and thus don't think there's a reason for the lower one.
Further, we simply have one more tile which can potentially give production on the upper placement, while the lower gets water instead. Another minor point is the forest in the upper solution (again production from the get-go, not requiring improvements), and the two more river tiles.

Actually, neither of the two positions is very strong on production, both are good on food and gold (thanks to the floodplains and water). Since we're apparently alone I feel quite confident in not building a strong military early, it shouldn't be a problem delaying the founding of a production city to the third or fourth.

Panth

Nov 13, 2005, 02:44 AM

Looks like you're right MadDog . . . I was seeing it wrong from the above picture. In the end, either of the top two choices are fine. We've got so much land to play with here I don't think a square or two will destroy us :D

* Thrar, while I agree with your roadless building theory, roads would get the settlers moved around faster once they're done. I think the benefit of the food probably outweighs the benefit of the roads. It might be a tossup. It's picky math stuff and it's too late for that right now :crazyeye:

regoarrarr

Nov 13, 2005, 05:41 AM

I agree - let's found on the hill

BeefBayford

Nov 13, 2005, 10:33 AM

Got it, will play my 20 this evening. I've been swayed towards building on the hill, and since 3 of us have agreed to it that's where I'll put it. The defense on the hill behind a river will be great aswell (if the AI get that far :hammer: )

BeefBayford

Nov 13, 2005, 12:00 PM

1) 2360BC
Warrior moves towards our new city plot to be a garrison. Worker Farms.
2)
Scout is visited by a lion! Oh dear! I'll move him into the cove and hopefully the lion will leave him alone... oh no, there's another one!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Ucel1_1.jpg

3)
Both lions miraculously move away! Scout is healed in 9.
4)
BW complete, begin on AniHusb. The lions hath returneth! :cry: Slavery is now available, but I haven't revolted because we don't need to whip citizens just yet.
5)-8)
Nothing much.
9)
Worker farms another FP square, Settler in 2.
10)-11)
Very little.
12)
AniHusb complete, begin researching Mysticism (we could use some Obelisks for a bit of culture right?). Settler is complete and moving towards hill target. Moscow begins Worker.
13)
Nothing
14)
St. Petersberg founded on hill, begins work boat but we need an obelisk first for our borders to expand.
15)
The scout is still alive!
16)
Myst complete, begin Iron Working. Prod in St. Pete changed to Obelisk.
17)
Worker starts another FP farm.
18)
Nada
19)
...Well it just occured to me that we don't need an Obelisk for culture... apologies for my stupidity! Work boat will be continued in St. Petes. Worker-> Settler in Moscow. New worker heads to hook up Horses.
20) 1680BC
Pasture on Horses, and that's about it!

Impressions

Things are going quite well, I like the Creative trait (this is the first time I've used a leader with Creative). It's clear we are alone on this continent so we don't have to rush too much towards the Stone resources because we'll grab them in time anyway.

Russia ca. 1680BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Ucel1_2.jpg

Here's the SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Ucel1_BC-1680.Civ4SavedGame)

Roster;
Ucel
Thrar
BeefBayford (Just played)
regoarrarr (UP!)
Panth (On deck)

regoarrarr

Nov 13, 2005, 03:00 PM

got it - will play in about 3-4 hours. Anyone wanting to comment should do so before then

BeefBayford

Nov 13, 2005, 03:06 PM

Just a quick point whilst I remember... when you get round to linking up the two cities, all you should do is build a road between the two rivers which will connect the cities. You may already know this but it's just a reminder.

ucel

Nov 13, 2005, 03:50 PM

Two thinks / things
1) Where do we put our third city? Cover the pig?
2) I don't think making more than 4-5 cities at this moment would be good. Management will eat us :(.

I'll take a look on the save and put some more suggestions.

ucel

Nov 13, 2005, 04:03 PM

Research: I propose to finish IW, then Compas (+1 health from fish), then Wri (Library).
City: I propose the white dot. Resons: we secure pig (+1 health) and copper. And since we are alone, we will have guests (barbs) soon. Archers won't be enough!!!
Moscow: Build two workers after settler is ready, then some archers. Let's train them on lions!

ucel

Nov 13, 2005, 04:32 PM

I just went into Top 5 cities. Four of our opponents are: Mali, Egypt, India, Rome. And we are first in land area!

regoarrarr

Nov 13, 2005, 06:29 PM

1680(0) - Everything looks good

1640 (1) - Didn't notice our Scout was next to a lion. Not sure I could have done anything but hey it won!

1600 (2) - St. Pete grows to 2. Rather than work the flood plain, I work a forest, which chops 5 turns off the work boat, which will help us grow even faster.

1440 (6) - Settler in Moscow - goes to white dot. Look for guidance on what to build - go for worker. I don't really want to build much military here - it's food heavy and should build settlers.

1400 (7) - St. Pete Workboat->Warrior (MP for 3rd city). Might be :smoke: but I send St. Petes warrior to escort the settler - its warrior will build in 4 turns. The scout is over there too. Boat lands on the fish. I put the 2nd citizen back on the flood plain. Before it was +4 food 4 hammers. This will make it +6 food 2 hammers, for 2 turns when it will grow to 3 at which time I"ll put it back on the forest.

1320 (9) IW. We have Iron far to the NW of Moscow and far to the SE. I veto compass as it would take 25 turns ->Masonry. Mine finishes on Moscow's hill which adds another food/hammer for our worker.

1280 (10) - Novgord on the white dot starts on a barracks to build military. Moscow's worker finishes I put it back on the barracks, though it won't finish it. Moscow will grow to 6 in 3 turns at which point I will put it to settler.

1240 (11) - Judaism founded.

1200 (12) - St. Pete warrior->Archer.

1160 (13) - Masonry -> Writing

1120 (14) - Lucky guy kills a barb warrior. Moscow back to settler. It's unhappy by one but that will change when we hook up the pigs.

1000 (17) - I stop here. As much to even out years as to watch the Browns game :)

The workers are connecting Novgorod. Settler should be build in a turn or two. St Pete's archer finished and is building a barracks to pump military.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Ucel1_BC-1000.Civ4SavedGame

Conqueror '91

Nov 13, 2005, 06:53 PM

lurker's comment: I like how you have that indicator where it shows the growth and production of the city in numbers instead of by the colored bars. Where can I get that?

Panth

Nov 14, 2005, 12:44 AM

Go into the options menu and check the box that says something like "show city details." I don't remember what it's called exactly.

This'll be my "Got it" though it's leat so I won't be playing til tomorow night.

ucel

Nov 14, 2005, 02:20 AM

Isn't it "show health bar" or "show city production"? I don't have a copy of the game at the moment...

Thrar

Nov 14, 2005, 03:44 AM

First, about that option: it's on the "graphics" tab, called "detailed city info".

Now, some thoughts on further development, and a dotmap:

1. Scout the area NE of Moscow. Likely there'll only be tundra, but maybe some resources. And our scout has nothing else to do, does he?

2. Connect Moscow and St. Peter. Rivers do act as roads for connection, but the roads have to go to a tile adjacent to them ("fresh water"). Diagonal is not enough (and yes, I know it looks like the roads connect)! This also holds true for Novgorod, which won't be connected once we road the pigs.
By connecting St. Peter, we get another health for Moscow from the fish. I dunno if it's advisable to grow further, though.

3. Do we need barracks in St. Peter? I'd go for lighthouse and get big-time research there. Irrigate FP now for growth, later get cottages. This isn't a production center, but it can get huge amounts of commerce thanks to our trait bonus and the sea.

4. Probably not in the next 20 turns: get a galley around the southern peninsula (behind the peak), and if possible drop off a land unit to scout.

On more cities: I'm not concerned too much about maintenance cost. Thanks to our trait bonus, we should get enough money in (mostly from St. Peter). Also, at the moment we don't need research that bad - after all, we got a whole continent to fill! I'd probably stop expansion when we get to 50 or 60% research, but go on as long as possible!

With this in mind, here's the dotmap:
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~s0500422/images/Civ4/Ucel1/dotmap.jpg

Comments:
The other numbers are mostly in the order in which I thought of them; I think the 5th city should either be #5 or #7.

"next city" gets good production from forests and horses, I think that's best to complement what we have so far. Also I think it makes good use of the land up there, has enough food (horses, clam) and later two hills to mine (one under forest). Depending on what our scout finds in the north, this might need an archer or two for defense against barbs.

I'd prefer putting #6 where I placed the marker, since it'd be difficult to reach/improve the land south of the peak, but if that peninsula is really big (scout this with a galley first), we might want a channel there.
If #6 goes to the lower position, #5 might also go one further south to the plains tile; although the difference isn't so large I think (in one case #5 is stronger, in the other #6 is).

#7 is fresh water, but not wasting a floodplain, and can be another huge-growth city (with some production from two desert/hills).

#8 should probably be founded after #6 and #7 are in place. I wanted to have it on a river, and use the land south of #7, west of Novgorod, that's why I came up with this position. #10 would probably be between #6 and #8.

#9 is on the coast, gets both the iron and sheep, and has some decent tiles to work (while not wasting any where it's built). This one might also look good one further to the west, if we get another city (#11) north of Moscow.

My preferred order (subject to change on findings by galley in south, scout in north):
"next city"
#5 IF WE KNOW about the channel, either there (no channel) or one to the south (channel)
#7
#6 in the respective position
#9
#8

what are your thoughts?

ucel

Nov 14, 2005, 04:18 AM

"Next city" is eventually OK, but first we have to scout the coast. About city #5 - it is to close to our existing cities. We have the whole continent for us and don't need to put cities one by one. IMHO one S for #5 would be better.
About research: I propose not to research techs leading to religion at all - let's acquire them by trade :).
Maybe make some archer scouts to rescout the west part - we should have at least one barb city soon.

regoarrarr

Nov 14, 2005, 07:34 AM

I'm fine with a veto of the barracks in St. Peter. My thinking was until Novgorod came up to speed (it's still size 1), we may need to build troops out of there to escort our Muscovite settlers.

I think making it a commerce powerhouse is a good idea too. If that's the case, we may want to build an aqueduct or granary before too long. Also, we're going to run into some happiness problems (I think we have 6 happy faces). Maybe MP (does that come with hereditary rule?) - which would be another good reason to build the barracks.

ucel

Nov 14, 2005, 07:47 AM

Don't we need religion based techs to achieve monarchy?

Panth

Nov 14, 2005, 08:59 AM

Regarding the placement schedule: I don't really agree with the city placements laid out there, but I can live if everybody else agrees. My thoughts on expansion are that since we have the place to ourselves, spread W 5 squares from each city roughly. It might leave a few squares unused in corners between cities, but fills up the map quicker with fewer cities and they can all have full workspaces. Of course there can be alterations by a bit if it's more strageic, or would miss an important resource.

On that note, I think Next City should be moved 1E to get sheep and crab/clam (can't tell which.) 7 & 8 would each move 2NW, 5 & 6 would each go 1 S.

Just my thoughts.

ucel

Nov 14, 2005, 09:13 AM

I agree. As I have written in #55 we have the whole continent. And even if an important resource won't fall into the city borders it should fall into our cultural borders.

Thrar

Nov 14, 2005, 10:18 AM

"next city" gets the clam. After culture expansion, that is. And by moving east we lose the horses as a workable tile, which are very valuable.

LAnkou

Nov 14, 2005, 11:14 PM

I wonder why there is so luch overlap with this city placement...

Since you have the whole continent, why don't you try to avoid overlapping? #7 is an abberation to my eyes (overlapping + desert). I would put it 2/3W...

well that's your game

Panth

Nov 15, 2005, 01:03 AM

Preflight check 1000BC
-Swap St. Pete to work 2 caostal, 1 floodplain, 1 fish for growth in 5, 9 beakers, lighthouse in 30. I'd rather have the growth & cash immediately - I'll rearrange after growth due to happiness limits

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c189/Pantherfern/Civ4ScreenShot0040.jpg

-Swap Novgorod to Pyramids . . .this place is going to be a production powerhouse
*Moscow can't really grow due to health/happy limitations so wrokers/settlers and a unit or two are good there

= wake scout hiding in Novgorod and send him to the NE
= send Lucky SE

. . .and GO!

T1 975BC Well here's a surprise . . .Some guy named Alexander popped up to say howdy. Thermopolae lies on the other side of our SE mountain just below our iron . . .

I stack 2 workers on pasture to finish it up . . .I like stacks :)

T2 950BC
*Wee kan rite . . .learning to add in 10
= worker stack roads pigs instantly
= worker farms Novgorod floodplains
- wake warrior @ St Pete & send to Moscow for escort

T3 925BC
= worker stack sent to hill S of Novgorod
+ Lucky Guy finds a barb city in the Southland

T4 900BC
* After much consideration due to recent developments, I send Settler S (by spot #5) to claim Iron and start pressuring Thermopolae - I'd actually rather push West to get that stone up, but don't want to leave the South open.
= worker stack set to mine/clear forest in 4
- Moscow orders worker in 4

T5 875BC
- St Pete grows to 5 - I set them to 4 water tiles and 1 river plains for 12 beakers. they're at happines limit :(
- Novgorod grows to 3 - pyramids started at 225 turns 4 turns ago . . .now down to 48 and growing again in 6 :)
* Oh and our scout has found the spot for the Ultimate Fishing Villiage (TM) . . .more later although New City will have to move or something . . .

****Random commentary . . . we are now working pigs, fish, deer, and horses but nobody's gaining benefit from them because they aren't roaded. Roads = good. We're losing food in our capitol when we shouldn't be

T6 850BC

We're needing more workers so Moscow should stay busy. I'm swapping St Pete over to Settler in 10

T7 825 BC
= send lone worker towards Moscow
* make last-minute decision on city placement

T8 800BC
Alex wants open borders . . . I don't think so.

*Rostov founded -> scout in 8 - Lucky Guy serving guard duty for a bit
- Moscow worker done -> worker in 4

T9 775BC
blah

T10 750BC

Novgorod is connected to capitol! Copper & pigs hooked. St. Pete next turn . . .
Northern sout pops hut for $52 . . .weird place for corn . . .

BTW . . .Alex has both horses and elephant

T11 725BC
blah . . .

T12 700BC
= worker #5 done in Moscow -> worker in 4
. . .building roads . . .

T13 675BC
* Math learned . . .let's figure out what to do with these horses we got (10)

T14 650BC
blah

T15 625BC
Barbs spotted attempting to molest our Novgorod workers! This is unacceptable. Guard moved to defend workers . . .

T16 600BC
Barbs take the bait and attack our warrior on a hill. They die of course, but another appears to replace it. . .

- Rostov scout done -> archer in 12
-St Pete settler done -> chariot in 3
-Moscow worker done -> barracks (3) . . .we need barb defense so might as well
Our Novgorod warrior is at 1/2 . . .we could lose him and the workers to the awaiting barb so . . .

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c189/Pantherfern/Civ4ScreenShot0041.jpg

We now have a 2.5/5 axer fortified over them :) The workers do, however have to skip this turn as I can't move them to the next hill.

T17 575BC
*Dumb barbs attack new axer and die without scratching him . . . $85 to save 3 units

T18 550BC
*** Stonehenge built in a far away land***
+ This barb has got us in a bad situation. Novgorod is empty but I have scout & Axe 1 move away - barbs are 2 moves. They will probably take out our copper mine before I can get to them. Archer is on his way as well in 2. I had to pull the workers out of the way and move them to safety towards Rostov . . .

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c189/Pantherfern/Civ4ScreenShot0042.jpg

T19 525BC
- Moscow barracks -> chariot (2)
- St Pete chariot -> lighthouse (7)
* barb lands on copper . . .axe & scout land in Novgorod . . .chariot & archer on the way . . .
* 'nother barb incoming . . .

T20 500BC
* rather than pillaging copper, barbs attack city & die quickly . . .didn't expect that, but great :D
*** Yaroslavl' founded west of Moscow to claim sheep. 1 more city west will claim stone, Iron2 & furs . . .we badly need a lux or we can't grow. St Pete & Novgorod are both stalled at 5

We got a problem though . . . Yaroslavl' is currently being guarded by a scout and there's a barb incoming in 3. Moscow's chariot builds next turn and can get there in 3, but I think the barb would get to attack the city (presuming they do), 1/2 a turn before the chariot gets there. Now, the scout has 2 moves left and could get to the hill with a 75% defense bonus combined with his 20% woodsman bonus. If my math is correct, that makes it just about a coinflip, but would leave the city totally open should he lose. Sorry . . . the scout JUST came from there and it was all clear

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c189/Pantherfern/Civ4ScreenShot0043.jpg

***Final notes to next leader
1) Sorry . . .it's a bit of a mess
2) Barb incoming to Novgorod . . .Axe, chariot, & archer there to take care of him
3) Worker stack S of Novgorod should mine hill SW of city to finish Pyramids fairly quickly
4) There're some really good city sites up north, one down south by sugar & horse and one west by stone/iron/fur
5) Novgorod & St Pete can go to settler production after their builds probably

Here's what I see for cities . . .dunno what to do with the E/NE without waste/overlap . . .
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c189/Pantherfern/Civ4ScreenShot0044.jpg

ucel

Nov 15, 2005, 08:24 AM

It seems to be my turn now. I'll take a look and will play in few hours.

Panth

Nov 15, 2005, 01:33 PM

Any ideas about our NE corner?

A city 1S of deer will get deer, clam, fish, & whale, but then putting anything in range of E corn or horses will have serious overlap.

And one city in the direct North (1 N of corn) can get fish & corn, but we'll have a couple wasted tundra squares. Not a big deal at all. Getting both north fish is going to cause severe overlap.

I think cities west of Yaroslavl' & Rostov should be priority, but of course that will be up to y'all ;)

ucel

Nov 15, 2005, 01:53 PM

Too late. I just finished my turns an post the game in several minutes :). But I have built no cities.

ucel

Nov 15, 2005, 02:12 PM

0) Precheck:
St. Pete - moved production from plains to forest. Lighthouse due 7
Novogrod - ordered scout to go to Yaroslav - should reach it before barb
IBT : Oracle has been built in fara away land.
1) 475 BC - Moscow Finished Chariot, Settler due 6. Chariot will reach Yaroslaw in 3 turns, till this time scouts must defend it. We need roads! Ordered workers to build road to Yaroslaw.
Chariot by Novogrod destroyed a warrior, 1XP, unfortunately down to 0.9, ordered him to heal. Moved Archer cak to the city. Move production in Novogrod from the hill to forest. We are down 1g, but up 1f. City is growing again. Moved workers to mine the hill, then I move the production again.
2) 450 BC - Horseback Riding ready, Alphabet due 11. After that we can buy some religion based techs (we can't develop them). Yaroslavl is now defended by two scouts, barb is lurking from the hill. Help comes next turn.
Mine by Rostov ready, Workers start to build Cottage NW from the city
IBT: scout won!
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/ucel/Civ/ScoutWon.jpg
And someone found Confusomething.
3) 425 BC - Rostov finished Archer, Barracks due 10
4) 400 BC - Mine finished, Pyramids due 8. Cottage finished, I splitted the workes to chop jungle near Rostov. I'll scout with the chariot north of Yaroslavl.
5) 375 BC - Yaroslavl expanded.
IBT: After Lord McCauley we are the fourth most cultured civ. Alex is 5th.
6) 350 BC - Production is good, but first people need food. Building farm by Novogrod.
7) 325 BC - Moscow finished settler. Ooops... I forgot about military. Archer will be ready in 2 turns, till this time I have to leave city undefended :(. Settler is going to build Ultimate Fishing Villiage (TM).
St.Pete finished LH, Work boat is queued. Oh, and St. Pete expanded as well.
Ouch, the people in Moscow are rioting because of military :(. I had to put the city on starvation for these two turns.
Chariot by Novogrod is healthy again and ready for scouting south.
8) 300 BC - zzzzz
9) 275 BC - Archer in Moscow ready, started Worker (4). Jungle chopped, ordered Workers to build cottage and mine respectively. Farm by Novogrod ready, the road is under construction (we will expand this direction later.
We have sheeps now! Workers will build the road to Stone City.
10) 250BC - Nothing interesting...

Our situation:
In three turns we have Alph, in 2 Pyramids. We are already on the deficit: 70% gives us +1! and we're going to build more cities.
Have you noticed that we have no luxuries at all?
Alex has horses, but neither iron nor copper. And he doesn't like us and won't sell ivory. Maybe Open Borders would help?
This is our empire. Note that we already have corn in the borders, but I don't think it's our priority at the moment. We have already +4H from resources.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/ucel/Civ/Empire.jpg

West is rich in resources. If we build the Stone City on the white dot we would have access to iron, stone and pig. And we need at least on tundra city to get some furs...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/ucel/Civ/RichWest.jpg

South is poor, but we should not underestimate that our only second lux - sugar is there. Idea: Constr, build some cats and swords and capture Anasazi.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/ucel/Civ/PoorSouth.jpg

And this is the save:

ucel

Nov 15, 2005, 03:23 PM

BTW, look here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3320473&postcount=410

The stronger way would be to adopt Theocracy while having no state religion. This would prevent the spread of any religions not already present at the time. You could simply keep your borders closed until you can enact this, ensuring no religions ever appear in your empire!

Is it an option for us?

Panth

Nov 15, 2005, 03:37 PM

I'm sure it would work presuming we are able to use that civic.

Don't remember the cost/benefit offhand though. Is that the unit experience or +25% buildrate one? Seems the benefit would be lost and we'd be paying for nothing, wouldn't we?

BeefBayford

Nov 15, 2005, 03:41 PM

Sounds good to me, will certainly make it more of a challenge. In other words no open borders until we revolt to Theocracy?

Panth

Nov 15, 2005, 07:33 PM

Being atheist and having our oun continent (for now) there's no reason to have open borders. I already told those Greek to stuff it like their dolmades :D

Thrar

Nov 16, 2005, 12:03 AM

Got it, will play later.

I'm not so happy about the decision to build the pyramids, without any discussion about that topic.
On big decisions like that one I'd prefer to get everyone's opinion on them.

ucel

Nov 16, 2005, 01:45 AM

Why? This is the only way for us to get Her Rule, since we can't develop religion based techs. And this way achieving theocracy will be very difficult - we must buy it.
And Panth: Theocracy is +2XP for units with high upkeep. +25% for buildings is Org. Religion.

Thrar

Nov 16, 2005, 08:41 AM

I'm not talking about the usefulness of the Pyramids - even that isn't such a no-brainer to me - but more about the fact that there was absolutely ZERO discussion on the subject. It's not like we're running out of things to build or have such a huge amount of cities, plus it's one of the more expensive wonders!

(0) I have no clue what that settler is doing up there in the north...those are two health resources we really don't need now, in a pretty bad position. Oh well, if you prefer 1 fish 1 deer over corn+horses+fish, there you go, I'll build it.

(1) Move workers from Novgorod to St. Peter, lots of unimproved tiles over there. Also found Yekaterinburg where the settler was.

(2) Set St. Peter to no growth (would only produce unhappy citizens). Pyramids completed, next turn (after completion of Alphabet), switch to Representation. Note that I should have placed Yekaterinburg on the deer, there's another fish up north. Sorry about that. St. Peter finishes work boat (up to Yekaterinburg), starts on a library. Yaroslavl gets to work a floodplain for growth, then a settler at size 3.

(3) Alphabet finished, next research will be Calendar (for sugar plantations mostly). Revolt to Representation. There's a new barb city east of Yaroslavl, on a hill defended by 2 archers. Will be tough to take. Dunno what to do with the new worker in Moscow, send him to build road to the fishing village. Alex has Meditation, but doesn't want to trade it.

(4) ordered up granaries in all the major cities. When finished, grow! Happiness limit is now at 8 (for the 5 big cities). Our chariot (combat I) parks next to that barb city to maybe lure out an archer.

(5) again I don't know what to do with the workers...oh well, better than too few of them ;) Archers don't attack the chariot. We now got clam, health is really no problem. If only Alex would trade some of his ivory!

(6) nothing notable.

(7) ...

(8) some worker actions.

(9) Moscow and Novgorod finish their granaries. Time for some growth!

(10) Not much going on. Moscow now grows EVERY TURN! Don't let it get higher than 9 though. Could also use some more improvements on floodplains, maybe cottages, since we're out of happiness.

On open borders and religion: I haven't signed anything with Alex, but he seems quite reluctant to trade. Since (a) he doesn't have a state religion and (b) there is no land route where he could send missionaries, it would hardly make a difference in terms of religion to agree to open borders (only if he ships missionaries). Besides, he has got no state religion himself (!), which makes me suspect that he may also not have any religions in his cities. Imo, by signing open borders, we might get him to be a bit friendlier towards us, and maybe trade for some techs.

No screenshots today, the map basically looks just like 10 turns ago. Am I really the only one who thinks this an extremely loose city structure???

ucel

Nov 16, 2005, 09:03 AM

What do you mean as "extremely loose city structure"?
I agree we can make Open Borders wit Alex, but should close them as soon he gets any religion .

Thrar

Nov 16, 2005, 09:09 AM

What do you mean as "extremely loose city structure"?

Like, built very far apart. We have very little overlap, and actually several tiles between our cities that can never be worked. Of course we have lots of land, but even though I think if left on my own I'd place the cities tighter.

ucel

Nov 16, 2005, 09:34 AM

We can build some additional cities later. Remember, that in Civ4 you pay for each city. And each costs you more :(. Our primary task is to cover tha island. I have set 3 continents. We and Alex share one, rest 6 civs must share another 2, so we could end up with the bigger civ, even without any war.

Panth

Nov 16, 2005, 09:58 AM

I know yarsloavl leaves 3 spaces empty between it and moscow, but 1 is desert and the grass can be taken by another north city if need be. What is a "wasted" square, anyway unless it's a resource? If a city has a full block of workable squares, I don't see the problem.

And I guess I'm sorry about the pyramids. I didn't realize it would be a problem.

ucel

Nov 17, 2005, 01:52 AM

Reminder: BeefBayford, you're up!

BeefBayford

Nov 17, 2005, 03:31 AM

Oh yeah, so I am! Got it, will play turns today at some point...

BeefBayford

Nov 17, 2005, 10:02 AM

Played a couple of turns but then it started running very slowly, so I'll try again a bit later, if not tomorrow.

BeefBayford

Nov 18, 2005, 03:52 AM

Sorry guys I'm gonna have to be skipped for now, this save just doesn't want to run for me, hopefully I'll have the problem sorted by the time it comes round to me again, but for now the next player should pick it up. Sorry again.

regoarrarr

Nov 18, 2005, 05:32 AM

i think that makes me up in which case i got it and will play tonight

regoarrarr

Nov 18, 2005, 06:05 PM

1 AD (0) - Okay first thing is we have a lot of land to fill and no settlers. I'd really like to hem in Alex if possible. Will let Moscow get up to size 9 and then build some settlers since it will be at its unhappiness point.

50 (2) - Novgorod Barracks->Axe.

75 (3) - Calendar->Currency. Rostov Granary->Lighthouse. We've got a million souls. Moscow settler in 5. I hold down alt when clicking settler and I believe that puts it on repeating settler. We have a lot of land to settle folks!!

100 (4) - Interrupt the library in St. Pete for a workboat for Yekat. Slow down growth in St. Pete as 8 is enough :) for our happiness anyways...

125 (5) Have to dial science down to 70% as we're about to go negative.

175 (7) Turn off growth in Novgorod. One thing about being atheists is that it's hard to get happy. We need to think about ways to fix that.

200 (8) Moscow Settler->Settler. Send him south to hem in Alex.

225 (9) Novgorod Horse Archer->Liberry. Christianity founded.

250 (10) Yaroslav Library->Barracks

We need more cities!! I know this is Civ4 but we need some more. Get some luxuries for some happy and also hem in Alex. I'd switch St. Pete over to build a few settlers too once its library is complete. We need some markets too for happiness. Settler in the south is in place to settle.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Ucel1_AD-0250.Civ4SavedGame

regoarrarr

Nov 18, 2005, 06:06 PM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/ucel1-250.jpg

Panth

Nov 18, 2005, 06:37 PM

Good timing man, I just got off work :D

I agree wholeheartedly with spreading far and fast. Don't forget we're going to need workers as well as settlers though or else the expansion will kill us.

As for happiness, we could go for drama -> theatres -> culture slider.
We could also try to get some boats out and see what others have to trade.

edit: Oh, and "got it."

Panth

Nov 18, 2005, 10:57 PM

250 AD preturn:

- With South settler in current position, neither that city nor Rostov will get that sugar which Alex is currently stealing from us.
-Wake Yaroslavl scouts and send them out on Coast Guard duty . . . I don't want to find sombeody else popping up on our land without us knowing.

T1 275
blah

T2 300
-St pete lighthouse -> galley
-Novgorod library -> worker
-Rostov lighthouse -> workboat

** Yakustk founded dahn sahth 'tween them hoss an sweets. Library (to culture push Alex)

T3 325
- Moscow settler -> Settler (sent to yaroslavl)
* Oh yeah . . .somebody built the Great Lighthouse

T4 350

-Yaroslavl Barracks -> sword . . .settler & archer head west

T5 375
**Currency complete - > drama (we need happiness. if these cities could grow we'd be rockin')
-St Pete galley -> market
-Novgorod worker -> market

T6 400

- Rostov workboat -> library
-Yekteisrternebergintator lighthouse -> market

*** Hmmm . . .I've been scouting around with the chariot and scouts and just found that Anasazi (down in South Central) just has 2 warriors defending. . .

T7 425
* Chariot's odds v. Anasazi are 4.0 - 3.3 . . .not great but not horrible. Aaaaand . . .

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c189/Pantherfern/Civ4ScreenShot0051.jpg

He wins against #1 but is down to .4 health. (I have an axer en route, but he's a few turns away still.)

1 Down though.

T8 450

- Yaroslavl sword -> horse archer
-Moscow settler -> archer

T9 475

*** Vladivostok founded -> market

+ That galley I built was heading south but can't go anywhere w/o signing OB w/ Greece. I'll leave that decision alone for now

T10 500

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c189/Pantherfern/Civ4ScreenShot0052.jpg

*** The sitch, the skinny, the lowdown***
+ active units: Settler in Yaroslavl, galley outside Rostov

+ There is a scout on a hill West of Yaroslavl w/ a sword & axe routed to join him next turn. This is where I propose the next city ( will get furs, which is sorely needed, and stone, and is in direct line with other cites for easy[er] connection) IF somethign else is decided, teh sword/axe can hit barb city if desired.

+ chariot is still healing up @ Anasazi. Axe 2 turns out. still only 1 warrior there. Should be cake.

* Markets cooking all over, turning a +$3 profit now @ 70%.
* Drama due next turn. between Markets, theatres, and the cultue slider we shold be growing again shortly.

# An admission: I :smoke: one and built an unnecessary workboat to add to the other unnecessary workboat we already had up north. I thought St Pete needed one for it's fish, but apparently not. Sooo, yeah.

**** Point for discussion:
What, exactly, is the disadvantage of cities surpassing their happiness limits? I've been mm'ing Madrid for cash, production as needed whilst stagnating growth. Well, I moved the guard out as I was shuffling them around and it was unprotected for a turn or so. They got mad and must have auto-moved people and it grew instantly. So now it has 10 guys with 1 not doing anything instead of 9 all working. Still 9 people working either way. Where's the downside? Madrid can run something like +16 food. Even if we get it up to pop 14 with only 9 working, I see no downside. When we do get happy faces, we have an instant workforce - no waiting to grow. Plus, even a regular citizen (we can't do other specialists yet) pulls 1hammer/3beakers under representation.

ucel

Nov 19, 2005, 01:37 AM

Got it, will play in several hour.
I plan to get Music (G.A.) as next, then go towards Optics.
And OB with Alex for at least my turns, next one can end the deal.

OK?

Panth

Nov 19, 2005, 02:48 AM

What's your plan for the artist?

ucel

Nov 19, 2005, 03:07 AM

I don't know yet, but better to have a problem having him that not having a problem and not having him.
Idea: Alex must have sailing by now. So he will settle out land soon. We could use the artist for the Culture Bomb to take his city peacefully.
Other possibility would be to save him for possible assault on another continent and again CB.

ucel

Nov 19, 2005, 10:54 AM

Precheck:
Signed OB with Alex.
I MM some cities, so we can run at 60% Sci without deficit.

1) 520 AD
Drama -> Construction. We need these damn courts. Moscow is 100% productive again.
What is this work boat near St. Pete waiting for? I move it south for some reckon.

2) 540 AD
Novogrod: Marker -> Theatre
Moscow: stopped Market, started Theatre, will allow city to grow to 11
Axe by Anasazi becomes Combat I. Attack!

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/ucel/Civ/Ucel_Anasazi.jpg

87 Gold pillaged, we have new city.
Smolensk built, started Theatre.

3) 560 AD
Yaroslavl: Horse -> Market
Grrrr! Why the one who chose Representation didn't adopted Slavery?
No, Next Farm near Moscow? Who need it?
I revolted for Slavery

4) 580 AD
Moscow had Emph. Food set, turned it off and set Emph. Prod.

5) 600 AD
Novogrod: Theatre -> Axe
Moscow: Theatre -> Market
Anasazi: Theatre

6) 620 AD
Novogrod: Axe -> Axe. Our military is too weak for the pesky barbs.
Burgundian offensive started.
Sword: failed :(
Axe: failed :(
Horse: failed :mad:
Chariot: won!
One Archer 0.3/3 left.

7) 640 AD
St. Pete: Market -> Horse
Moscow: hurry market (-3 pop)
Burgundian offensive continues. Chariot got Flanking I and attacked again:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/ucel/Civ/Ucel_Burgundian.jpg

8) 660 AD
Moscow: Market -> Lib
Novogrod: Axe -> Sword

9) 680 AD
Yakutsk: Lib -> Theatre
Alex knows CoL, but don't want to share it. Never mind Alex, only one turn to go...

10) 700 AD
Construction -> Music (vetoable)
Rostov: Lib -> Cat
Workers near Yakutsk started The Sugar Road (TM)
Canceled OB with Alex since we don't need it anymore. Our spying Workboat landed on the right side of Greece.

Our empire become a little larger. What is the most important, I attach the map of Greece.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/ucel/Civ/Ucel_Greece.jpg

I have started Music, we can need this artist later, on our outpost when we find another civs. Then I propose Compas->Optics.
We should make ready for the war with Alex. It should be easy since he has no metals. Some cats, swords and axes and we can build Elephants.
And there is realy no point building next cities. We will be in enough financial trouble after Greek War.

Panth

Nov 19, 2005, 11:28 AM

The only real good cities Alex has are Sparta & Athens. Conrith has nothing AND overlaps Athens. We're stealing from Thermopolae. We could bomb Rostov and try and grab Thermopolae for them. If you check the squares, we're already pressuring it. Build up a couple more galleys and ferry troops down there and fight on their turf rather than ours. Just a thought.

But I disagree that we should stop expanding. I think we should still work towards filling up the continent. Once Vladivostock gets all farmed up, it can crank settlers pretty well and is in a good position to cut down their travel time.

ucel

Nov 19, 2005, 11:47 AM

We could take Sparta and Athens, raze Thermopylae and Corinth and build New Corinth on the island west from the old city.
I just wanted to say: before expanding we should build some more courts. to reduce the maitenance costs.

regoarrarr

Nov 19, 2005, 12:55 PM

i don't see what the benefits are of having unhappy citizens? They do nothing. So instead of growing if you can get extra hammers or commerce by working other tiles it seems to make sense to do so

ucel

Nov 20, 2005, 02:04 PM

Reminder: Thrar: you're up.

ucel

Nov 21, 2005, 05:26 AM

It seems that Thrar is out by now. BeefBayford, are you ready?

Thrar

Nov 21, 2005, 08:48 AM

Sorry, didn't notice it was my turn. Got it, will get it done in an hour or so.

Thrar

Nov 21, 2005, 10:28 AM

(0) some micro to have Moscow grow and finish library next turn. Some more micro on other cities.

(1) Moscow builds colosseum, later aquaeduct, this has some serious "big city soon" potential. Our navy (galleys for transport) will be built on the east coast, since those cities are better developed than the southern ones. Taking Thermopylae will give us a channel.

(2) Smolensk builds theatre, now on granary. St. Peter: Horse archer -> galley.

(3) Somebody builds the Colossus.

(4) nothing really.

(5) Moscow builds colosseum. Alex has horse archers, warriors, and archers visible. We'll need swords and a few spears for the attack.

(6) We're wealthiest. As a reaction, I go up to 60% research. Moscow is size 11, growth stopped.

(7) Another galley in St. Peter. When those we're building right now finish, we have 4 (3 west, 1 south), which should be enough to serve our transport needs.

(8) Music finishes, Homer is born. I move him to Rostov, but with no intend to use him. CoL counts as a religion tech, since it gives Confucianism, I suppose? So I pick Metal Casting, useful anyway. At some point we'll run into dead ends on research, since all kinds of things require religios tech. We can get to Optics though. Alex doesn't feel like trading.

(9) Are we allowed to build Notre Dame? It's kinda religious, but without gameplay religion effects. That +1 happiness would be great given our lack of luxuries. Sugar is connected, our first lux! Moscow builds aquaeduct for further growth. We could turn off the lux slider now, but I suppose someone found it useful for culture, so I leave it.

(10) Now this is sweet: See those 3 lakes between Smolensk and Burgundian? They actually connect those two cities!
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~s0500422/images/Civ4/Ucel1/connected%20cities.jpg

Greece founded Taoism in Sparta - we have to be careful not to infect ourselves!

If we're allowed to build Notre Dame, I suggest putting Novgorod on hammer production after its growth (in 2), should get over 20 hammers, x2 since we have stone.
Wait, it gets even better: Novgorod will spawn a great engineer in 2 turns! Now, let's see...there's only one wonder available. But, is it allowed?

When the two galleys that are being produced finish, we also should have enough troops to load them up (4 galleys total). Then we could ship them to the hills south of Thermopylae and attack, probably even within 10 turns?

ucel

Nov 21, 2005, 11:02 AM

You forgot the save :)

How many cats do we have?

Panth

Nov 21, 2005, 11:32 AM

Quote from setup post:
------
We don't develop new religion. We will never set the state religion. We won't build any temple nor monastery. If we capture the holy city of one religion we must raze it.
------

I see nothing about avoiding Notre Dame or any other such thing. It's . . . uh . . . a football thing! Yeah, that's it - college football will make the people happy.

ucel

Nov 21, 2005, 12:14 PM

I'll post list of all forbidden things. I don't think Notre Dame or Taj Mahal should be between them, but we can discuss it.

The Caltrop

Nov 21, 2005, 12:41 PM

LURKER: During the French Revolution, the Cathedral of Notre Dame was raided and removed of all Christian iconography, and set up as a 'Temple of Reason'. Admittedly, it was not athiestic, but the worship of some Deistic god of reason... but still, you can make the stretch that by Reason they mean atheism/secularism.

And the Taj Mahal is a tomb, not a mosque/temple/religious building.

ucel

Nov 21, 2005, 02:38 PM

Techs we don't develop:
Mysticism, Polytheism, Meditation, Priesthood, Monotheism, Theology, Divine Right

Building we don't build:
Monastery, Temple, Cathedral

Wonders we don't build
Angkor Wat, Chichen Itza, Hagia Sophia, Oracle, Sistine Chapel, Spiral Minaret, Notre Dame, Taj Mahal

Techs to discuss: Code of Laws, Philosophy

Feel free to discuss the list. I think we can allow CoL and Phil after the appropriate religions have been founded. Of course we can be very strict and don't allow these techs as well :).

regoarrarr

Nov 21, 2005, 06:28 PM

I say your list is a good one. I think CoL and Philo are okay. Notre Dame and Taj Mahal I say we do without, but if everyone wants them that's fine by me.

Thrar

Nov 21, 2005, 10:41 PM

You forgot the save :)

doh! Not the first time that happens to me... :(
Anyway, here it is. Have fun rushing Notre Dame, and watching high-quality football!

(I don't see why ND is allowed, but Chichen Itza is not. I don't mind though, whatever you guys decide is fine with me.)

Panth

Nov 22, 2005, 12:22 AM

I don't really care one way or the other. I'd like to know though and have a definite list so we know what to not waste time with.

I'd love to get the wonders if we can, but being strictly atheist, we probably shouldn't get the obviously religious ones.

While I like me football excuse, Notre Dame is a religious monument. I hate to say, the Taj Mahal is as well probably since elaborate tombs are religious by nature - atheists don't much care for ceremonious afterlife preparations.

As I said though, I don't care either way so long as it gets sorted out.

ucel

Nov 22, 2005, 01:46 AM

DementedAvenger

Nov 22, 2005, 01:58 AM

OK guys, so I'm addind ND and Taj Mahal to the list. This way we're out of easy golgen age :(, but rules are rules.
Thrar: Chichen Itza was a temple, or at least strict religious building. I must check it exactly in WiKi.

Chichen Itza is actually a Mayan city - the pyramid is the most famous part, so people refer to the pyramid as Chicen Itza, but this is incorrect. I don't think the entire city was strictly religious, but the famous pyramid may have been.

ucel

Nov 22, 2005, 02:16 AM

Ask all those people slashed to the glory of Quetzalcoatl :D.

OK, CI is the name for the city, but Civ fashions one pyramid from it, namely Temple of Quetzalcoatl. Now it's the matter of discussion if we want to allow or not allow it.

ucel

Nov 23, 2005, 03:50 AM

Seems that BeefBayford is busy again. Regoarrarr, you're up. BB, let me know if ypu want to stay in the roster.

Farae

Nov 23, 2005, 04:41 AM

Ucel, if you are going to not research Philosophy, be aware you can't get Liberalism.

ucel

Nov 23, 2005, 05:07 AM

We can always try to buy it, but that's one from certain techs AI won't trade easilly.
But I think, final conclusion was we can develop CoL and Phil when someone other founded the religion from this techs.

regoarrarr

Nov 23, 2005, 07:04 AM

I'm going to need a skip or swap. I'm already up in my other game and have started playing. I'm not going to be able to play before I leave town tomorrow morning. I'll be back next Tuesday if you can slot me in some time around then.

ucel

Nov 23, 2005, 07:32 AM

OK, thanks for the info. Panth, you're up. Let's teach Greeks how to go out without a style :).

Panth

Nov 23, 2005, 08:19 AM

"Got it"

We're at war witht he Greeks? What did I miss here?
Or did you just want them taken out before they can get anything done?

<shrug>

:ninja:

ucel

Nov 23, 2005, 08:25 AM

No, we're not at war.
Not yet. :lol:

Panth

Nov 24, 2005, 07:12 PM

Preturn: 900AD

-load sword + cat on galley and head toward Thermo (within our borders still.) Should be able to declare/unload same turn that way.

- Set St Pete & Yak to grow . . . not sure why they were stalled.

T1 920
-troop movements . . .

T2 940

War on Greece!
-Drop cat & Sword on Thermo sugar.
- move galley back & load up 2 horses

T3 960
* Metal casting -> machinery

Unload horses - move galley back & reload with swords
Boiming & pillaging ensues.

Archimedes born in Novgorod

T4 980

* 2 Horse archers appear in Thermo for defense . . .didn't think Alex had horses
* send our horses to pillage elephants . . .don't want to see those.

T5 1000

*Well, it seems that worry is taken care of for now. The less-than-brilliant Greek horse archers attacked our little stack-o-swords and died :D

T6 1010

* odds look good at Thermo so I begin assault - take out 1 archer. . .2nd sword loses. Hold off unitl further bombardment . .

- Start Hanging Gardens @ Moscow - health & pop are good things for us right now. . .
I considered rushing this with Archimedes but it's only 9 turns so I'll hold off

T7 1020

+ A pattern develops . . . Alex dropped off a horse arch & warrior by Yakustk via Galley (by the time I saw the galley, Icould't reach it). So of course this less-than-bright horse rcher attacked our forted spear in Yatusk and died quickly. The warrior followed suit. I am now convinced that the Greeks are too stupid to live.

T9 1040

And the crowd rejoices - Thermopolae hath fallen into the Russian Empire!

Unfortunately, there is a sole Greek elephant on the rampage that got out before I cut all the supply lines.

T10 1050

Well, we have Thermopolae witha few units in it. One horse archer pillaging merrily around the Greek Island - got 4 elephants & sheep disconnected so far. Archer standing on horses still. Trying to avoid the elephant. He's our only real threat down there.

We need some more troops down there. Ferries standing by.

Homer & Archimedes are just chillin'.

Hanging Gardens in 5 will be nice.

ucel

Nov 25, 2005, 02:34 AM

:cry: I wont't wipe Greeks out :cry:
Sorry, you have to skip me, I can't play till Sunday. Thrar, you are up.

Thrar

Nov 25, 2005, 04:45 AM

ok, got it.

Thrar

Nov 25, 2005, 06:07 AM

(0) wake an axeman in Novgorod that didn't have an excuse for sleeping on duty. He's sent to the ferry terminal. I also don't see a reason to have an injured greek horse archer standing next to Thermopylae. A horse archer takes care of it, then I notice the hill, and send a spear to cover it from the elephant. If that one attacks the city now, we lose a catapult, but can take down the elephant afterwards.
Religious advisor says Confucianism is already existant, so I go for CoL instead of compass.

IBT - Elephant kills our catapult.

(1) ok, that was stupid. If I had put the spear on the hill, that had blocked the road and prevented the elephant from attacking both the elephant and the city. It's almost uninjured, I can't even take it down now. Net result: 1 horse archer for our catapult.
Have a look at our cities...lots of weird things going on...
2 cities build military without a barracks: switch those to forge/barracks respectively.
2 barracks cities build aqueducts, although they can't grow anyway for happiness reasons. I switch to swordsmen.
our pillage horse archer kills an archer and runs out of range of the elephant.

IBT - Elephant commits suicide on our spear.

(2) our now uncontested horse archer pillages his horses. Looks like I forgot to stop Vladivostok from growth, it's now over its happiness limit. A little more healing and we can go for Sparta. Since we need a settler to replace it, I switch St. Peter to build one. Lots of city switching lately...

(3) Oh, that's sweet! I didn't even notice this city before:
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~s0500422/images/Civ4/Ucel1/Delphi.jpg

Our pillaging horse archer kills an explorer. He's seen healthier days though...

(4) Our people are a bit upset about the war. Culture to 20%, science down to 30%. Our forces move towards Sparta. Oh right, and Hanging Gardens finish.

(5) we get CoL. Start on Engineering, sacrifice Archimedes for almost the whole beakers necessary. Due next turn.

(6) Engineering. Choices are Meditation, Poly (both out), Compass and Civil Service. CS takes long and has no real use for us, while Compass leads to Optics to get us to other parts of the world. I queue those two up. Running a deficit of -15 at 40%, due in 5 turns.

(7) Sparta's defense at 24%.

(8) Sparta at 8%.
Unpromoted sword gets City Raider I, and goes in. Loses, archer at 0.5.
Combat I horse archer kills next archer.
Our by now healed pillage hero (Medic, Combat II) kills another archer.
Axeman kills that pitiful rest of an archer and razes Sparta!
We're on the way to Athens, defended by four archers.

(9) The other two are on library. St. Peter finished the settler, now on forge. We have 12 cities, out of which 10 are building forges.

(10) Bombardment of Athens begins. Two more turns, then we can hopefully walk in with healed forces into an undefended city.

http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~s0500422/images/Civ4/Ucel1/Greece1150.jpg

Delphi might even flip by itself some day, but I guess by then their capital will be there, so we can't get it that way. Anyway, maybe we can send some knights later for an amphibious attack; I'm afraid horse archers would result in too many losses.
Alex offers Meditation, 80g and 1gpt for peace now. Take the rest of the mainland, then we can make peace I think.
When the forges finish, we should also get some (like 5 or so) more cities on our continent, now that we have courthouses and FP available.
In the galley near greece there's a settler, to replace Sparta. Either on the original location or one north, I think.

ucel

Nov 25, 2005, 06:45 AM

Hey, that looks good :)
I'm not sure if we need CS by now, so maybe after Compass is ready we can go straight to Optics. Then we can build two caravels and start circumnavigating the globe (+1 movement will be usefull).

BB, you're up. Regoarrarr, if BB don't get the game in 24 hours, then it's your turn. I'm back at Sunday evening CET.

Panth

Nov 25, 2005, 12:57 PM

Ucel, are we patching up for this from here out? I know your other SG you said you wanted to play patched. I'm confused. If I patch up for that, is this save still going to work okay?

Thrar

Nov 25, 2005, 11:35 PM

The patch is not downwards compatible - people without the patch cannot load games played with the patch.
I have it installed, so the save game should already be infected with the patch. Is it a problem to patch the game?

Panth

Nov 26, 2005, 10:33 AM

I'm patched now. It doesn't seem to negatively affect pre-patch saves, so that's cool.

Did we lose our Beef? Haven't heard from him in a bit . . .

ucel

Nov 27, 2005, 03:08 PM

Yeah, it seems that Beef is out for good :(.
About patching: the last save is already patched. You can't open it with unpatched game, but should have no problems with 1.09.
Regoarrarr, do you have it?

Panth

Nov 28, 2005, 12:08 AM

Oh, I'm having problems with 1.09, but that's alright :sad:

Regorarr said he'd be back Tuesday.

ucel

Nov 28, 2005, 02:26 AM

What kind of problem? Because it's your turn now :).

Panth

Nov 28, 2005, 08:29 AM

Ah . . . "got it" then. Play tonight/tomorrow.

[patch caused my game to crash @ wonder movies - found a way to disable them though so it's okay. I just got no movies now.]

BeefBayford

Nov 28, 2005, 01:48 PM

Sorry all I'm dropping out of all SG's. Don't have enough time to play Civ anymore, hopefully I'll be able to make my return to the game in a few weeks but until then, thanks for having me and adios!

regoarrarr

Nov 28, 2005, 02:01 PM

Okay - I just got back from vacation and it looks like I'm up. So I got it. I guess there's a patch out? In which case I'll go download that before I play.

ETA - Is it my turn or Panth's? I'll wait for someone to clarify

ucel

Nov 28, 2005, 02:36 PM

Clarify that with Panth :). If he hasn't already started then make your moves and finish the greeks :evil:

Panth

Nov 28, 2005, 03:50 PM

Rego can go - that's fine. He was up next anyway. I hadn't started yet.

:ninja:

regoarrarr

Nov 29, 2005, 08:46 PM

Well I was about to post it but I don't see where Thrar posted the save. Thrar?

Panth

Nov 29, 2005, 09:04 PM

Ah, he didn't post it. That would be why you couldn't find it. :D

Um . . . you said you were about to post it . . .if you didn't have the save, then you couldn't have played it . . . so what were you going to post? :confused:

Thrar

Nov 29, 2005, 10:51 PM

I always forget this. Here it is.

regoarrarr

Nov 30, 2005, 05:39 AM

I meant I was about to *play* it. Sorry for the confusion. I will give it a shot tonight.

ucel

Dec 01, 2005, 07:40 AM

Are you playing that? I don't know what time zone is "tonight" by you :).

regoarrarr

Dec 01, 2005, 07:53 AM

Sorry - got held up. I will play tonight which is about 10-12 hours from now

regoarrarr

Dec 01, 2005, 08:39 PM

1150 (0) - OKay then. It's been awhile since I saw this game. And we're much bigger now :-). Time to look to see what we're doing. Lots of forges - good. I see our settler to replace Sparta. Forces in place to put a hurt on Athens. Send the other galley to pick up someone to take out Delphi (1-tile island). Press enter

1160 (1) Cat bombards and the 2nd one retreats. Athens falls at the loss of one horse archer.

1170 (2) Ptolemy born in Moscow. We've got a lot of cities, so I go for a golden age!

1190 (4) Russian revolt takes place in Delphi! Moving folks on towards Corinth.

1200 (5) Down goes Corinth.

1220 (7) Great Library is built. I'm building courts and a few settlers to finish populating our lands.

1230 (8) How convenient - Delphi grows to size 2 just as I'm ready to attack it. It falls without loss and the Greeks are destroyed.

1240 (9) Decide to start the Globe Theater in Moscow. It can get plenty big. I find Rome. Or actually he finds me. Actually the noise makes me jump :-). We have about twice his score. I give him Drama for Meditation, Poly and 40 gold. I know we don't need those techs but Drama isn't much and this will start us off with good relations. I still can't see where Rome actually *is*.

1250 (10) So much for good relations as on the interturn Caesar demands Engineering :-). We can get Priesthood, Mono or Literature from him (we're up Music and ENgineering) but I hold off. There is one settler on goto to his spot with a horse archer meeting him for a garrison and another going to his spot with an axeman to meet him. The one is west of Burgundian and the other is west of Vlad.

We're on a course for Astronomy, which will allow us to upgrade our Galleys to Galleons. It's all downhill from here!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Ucel1_AD-1250.Civ4SavedGame

Panth

Dec 01, 2005, 11:53 PM

Good work on Greece! :goodjob:

Since we were a bit thin on military at the outset, I wasn't sure if it could go that fast.

I do have one bit of concern though
Techs we don't develop:
Mysticism, Polytheism, Meditation, Priesthood, Monotheism, Theology, Divine Right

1240 (9) Decide to start the Globe Theater in Moscow. It can get plenty big. I find Rome. Or actually he finds me. Actually the noise makes me jump :-). We have about twice his score. I give him Drama for Meditation, Poly and 40 gold. I know we don't need those techs but Drama isn't much and this will start us off with good relations. I still can't see where Rome actually *is*.

1250 (10) So much for good relations as on the interturn Caesar demands Engineering :-). We can get Priesthood, Mono or Literature from him (we're up Music and ENgineering) but I hold off.

So . . .yeah. :hmm:

What now? I'm fairly new to SG's and don't really know how this sort of stuff gets handled.

I'll say I got it but I'm not playing until this is sorted out.

ucel

Dec 02, 2005, 02:04 AM

We don't develop, but can buy them, although I find them for our game worthless, with the only exception would be theocracy (atheistic theocrats, heh :) )

Thrar

Dec 02, 2005, 03:43 AM

I think at some point we'll need them - I don't have the tech tree in front of me, but aren't there some later techs that require some of those early religious ones?
I think at some point we just might be in a situation where we *have* to research religious techs, if we don't buy them beforehand.

ucel

Dec 02, 2005, 04:17 AM

I think we need some techs to get Monarchy, but that's the only needed tech. Phil and CoL were also the exceptions and we were allowed to develop them.

regoarrarr

Dec 02, 2005, 05:46 AM

Doh! Major :smoke: Sorry about that - it was late. It totally slipped my mind. If you guys want, I can replay those 2 turns (I still have the autosaves), but we were already low on things to research - I"ll have to take a look at the tech tree and see if it's possible.

Thrar

Dec 02, 2005, 07:42 AM

I don't see that as a problem, trade should be allowed imo.
I guess the game won't come back to me tomorrow, so I can already sign off for a while now. I'm traveling for a while starting on Sunday, at least until 16th, but possibly several days or even weeks longer. So, you can just skip me whenever my turn comes up, I'll tell you when I'm back.
Was fun to play with you, I hope there's still something left of the game when I return, but I'm not sure if I should expect that. Have fun! ;)

regoarrarr

Dec 02, 2005, 07:50 AM

I don't know - the more I think about it, the more I vote for replayign those last 2 turns. I think we should get those only after we HAVE to - i.e. there are no non-religious techs to research.

I mean after all, this game is essentially won, right? Greece is gone, we own our continent, we have a 2:1 lead over Caesar (and probably close to that over all the other civs we haven't met yet). We might as well stick to our variant just to keep it interesting

ucel

Dec 02, 2005, 08:10 AM

No, I don't think so.
Meditaion is the required prerequisite for Philosophy. Without Philosophy we can't get Liberalism and Communism.
Even more, without neither Philosophy nor Divine Rights we can't get Nationalism, Military Tradition, Constitution, Corporation, Democracy...

Should I look for more?

Reference: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/techtree/index2.php

Panth

Dec 02, 2005, 08:24 AM

Sorry then. I wasn't aware that "develop" referred only to self-resarch - I thought it meant we never got them at all. Wasn't sure how that was going to work out, but hey.

Personally, as atheists, it would seem to me that we simply not adopt any religion or build any religious buildings. Atheists, after all, do not ignore the fact that religion exists or even avoid learning about it - they simply disagree with it. I've studied several religions that I haven't adopted or agreed with.

I think the Russian Athiest Nation [RAN] should be free to study whatever they like so long as they make no commitment to any religion nor waste any valuable production on monuments to these religions. I was just going by the rules that I *thought* were laid out in the outset.

ucel

Dec 02, 2005, 08:53 AM

When I am home, I'll check the list of are techs locked by the lack of Meditation.

regoarrarr

Dec 02, 2005, 09:06 AM

According to http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/techtree/

Philosophy is blocked by not knowing Meditation. And either Philo or Divine Right is required for Nationalism, which is a requirement for Constitution, Military Tradition, Democracy, etc.

So it seems like we're going to have to research it.

Panth

Dec 02, 2005, 09:11 AM

Well, I am home (and called in today) but I haven't really gotten how the tech tree works at all - I either just research whatever sounds best at the time from the dropdown, or click something on the tech tree and do whatever lights up.

I have absolutely no feel for what leads to what and this has produced issues in most of my games - I end up going in whatever random direction my clicking leads me :cringe:

I need help with this. :p

If this is sorted out now, I'll play today.

ucel

Dec 02, 2005, 11:49 AM

Promised Analysis:
Without developing and trading rel techs we won't get
Meditation
Polytheism
Priesthood
Monotheism
Monarchy (req. Priest or Mono)
Feudalism
Guilds (req. Feud)
Theology
Divine Rights
Literature (req. Polyth)
Philosophy (req. Med)
Nationalism (req. Phil or Div Rights)
Military Tradition
Constitution
Democracy
Liberalism (req. Phil)
Communism
Corporation (req. Constit)
Assembly Line (req Corp)
Industrialization
Plastics
Composites (req Plast)
Robotics (req Plast)
Future Techs

So, you can clearly see, without the secret of meditation you can't win the game :D.

Panth

Dec 02, 2005, 04:49 PM

So then we can trade for "the list of forbidden techs," just not research them ourselves. A'ighty.

Got it. Will play tonight/tomorrow.

Panth

Dec 03, 2005, 03:33 PM

Preturn 1250

The past few years have been rife with conflict. Our consortium which leads this great nation has inwardly stuggled. No no, not about Greece which is now known only as a brief entry in our historical annals. No, our struggles were with far greater questions - questions of substance; of ethics; of our collective vision of what it truly means to be the juggernaut that is the Russian Athiest Nation. During travels, one of our numbers procured from an odd little fellow named for a salad, the learnings of religion. Now, our consortioum had previously estabilshed that we should not waste our precious energy on such trivial matters, however after many summits, exhaustive debates, and finally, a drunken fishing trip off the coast of St Petersburg, it was finally agreed that if it made these other fools happy to give us these things in trade for things of actual value, so be it.

We shall remember.

- - - -

Our economy is presently in a bad state. Our rapidly growing cities are demanding entertainment and have few luxuries to content our citizenry with. This has necessitated 20% of our precious funding to go towards cultural spending, reducing our research funding to a meer 40% and we're still losing $32/turn. We have furs in the north and elephants in our newly acquired territory which must be put online ASAP. Our shiny new caravels will be sent out immediately in search of trade partners. I also notice that we can now create whale boats for our Yak whale - forgot that was a lux as well.

- shift Yek to workboat -> forge . . .(is a forge even worthwhile in a city producing massive cash and 4 hammers/turn? I would think a harbor or granary woudl be better served personally.)

* I note also that our health limits are reaching critical mass in our larger cities. I suggest Guilds after astronomy so that we can get markets going.

T1 1260

* St Pete's caravel cleaned up from the weekend's drunken fishing trip and set on course due East to see lies beyond the waters.
* Workcrew sent north to hook up furs.

++ A check of the info screen shows that we have only 10 workers. We need way more. We have a huge continent with a lot of cities. I know we need infrastructure badly as well but that will all get done much faster with well-improved land.

T2 1270

- Burgundian: Court -> worker

* Orenburg established WSW of Burgundian where he was routed. There will be 6 unworkable tiles in it's fatcross, but it gets corn, sheep, and copper. It will never get huge, but should become a medium sized, moderately productive place. Probably well-suited for a future naval base with it's location.

* K establish West of Vladivostock -> Granary

*** Our caravel finds Egyptian borders to the East. I find that they are led by a woman named Hotshotput.
- They are up Priesthood Monotheism and Literature.
- We are up CoL, music, compass, machinery, and construction.
- She has $60 and is losing $3/turn
- She has 9 cities listed besides capitol
- She is Jewish.
+ I trade her music for Preist, mono, and lit plus $60. She is now at +5 with us. Friends are good.

T3 1280

- A highly uneventful decade. A barb archer emerges from that city NW of Burgundian.

T4 1290

* Several builds - I don't remember them all
- St Pete caravel -> harbor
- Novgorod worker -> worker (no other infra to build here and we need workers)

++ Note: caravel #1 went along the Egyptian coast to the North. #2 is routed to the coast and South.

T5 1300

- Smolensk settler -> elephant (4)
- Burgundian worker -> elephant (3)
* We have about ZERO military, a barb archer incoming to newly built Orenburg, and that barb city to take out.

T6 1310

**Barb archer attacks our axe in Orenburg and fails miserably.
- Yarolsavl' aquaduct -> court
- Anasazi forge -> Settler (I want to claim that set of islands just West of it with 2 clams & fish)

T7 1320

- Novgorod worker ->chariot (1) to go with Anasazi's settler
** Khabrovsk established South of Burgundian -> lighthouse. I like this location as it has a good mix of tiles and provides a shortcut through that inlet should we need it.

+ Our West coast is now nearly filled in with the exception of that barb city, probably one more to the west of it on that penninsula, and that island set down south, West of Anasazi. Then we can fill in north at a slow pace as we wish to claim excess furs and irons and keep others from settling there. Our expansion phase is, however, nearly complete.

T8 1330

- Novgorod chariot -> worker
- Burgundian elephant -> market
* We're going broke at a startling rate - currently -$47/turn with $390 in the bank. Hopefully our workers and infra will help turn that around here since we're going to be expanding much slower now. Our loss rate has been fluxuating +/- a few with each new city founded and each piece of infra built.

++ Our Northern caravel finds Asoka of the Indian sharing a continent west of Hotshotput.
*** Lowdown on India:
- He has Civil Service up on us but doesn't want to trade just yet.
- We're up Drama, music, metal casting, and compass
- He has 8 cities besides the capitol
- He has $50 @ +5/turn
- He is Hindu
* Basically, he is really of no use to us now.

- Yek whale boat -> continues forge

T9 1340

- Another slow decade. Workers work. Ships ship. 2 Elephants now en route to barb city.

T10 1350

- St Pete harbor -> courthouse (went from -$50/turn to -$45/turn instantly)
- Vladivostok court -> library
- Yaroslavl' something (market?) -> courthouse

*** I did some serious micro before handing it over. I probably should have done this sooner and apologize for that. We had engineers running all over the place when what we need right now is money. With some tile & specialist swapping I got us from -$45/turn to -$29/turn. We have 3 cities @ size 1 and 2 which JUST hit size 2 this turn, all of which have zero improvements. Those 5 cities are costing us ~$40/turn and currently producing nothing. Workers are migrating over there now and this too will pass.

- Anasazi pops settler next turn; there is a galley waiting with chariot already loaded for transport to the island. I think 2 tiles West of the galley is perfect as it gets 2 clams, 1 fish, and several land tiles. I think after that barb city is taken, we should do one more on that penninsula and be done for a bit. Anasazi might want to pop a caravel next real quick to head West and meet the other one to speed cicumnavigation. This city is a freaking MONSTER!!!

* Moscow finishes Globe Theatre in 2 and should probably start pumping workers along with Novgorod. It has all current infrastructure as well.

*** We should probably discuss our future plans for national wonders and how we plan to pair them up. We have both Heroic & National Epics available now and should plan ahead what do with our nationals to get the most benefit from them.

* Oh, and our Northern caravel has reached an impasse. Magellen's will need to be accomplished with the Southern one.

+ Continue with the infrastructure and workers and we'll be okay.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c189/Pantherfern/Civ4ScreenShot0068.jpg

The "other" land . . .
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c189/Pantherfern/Civ4ScreenShot0069.jpg

ucel

Dec 03, 2005, 04:20 PM

Good narration Panth. Got it and will play tomorrow.

ucel

Dec 04, 2005, 09:00 AM

Precheck:
Niticed that we can run at 10% cul as well. Only Burgundian will riot, so set it on avoid Growth and started Colosseum

1) 1360
Anasazi: Settler->Lighthouse
Traded Monarchy for Drama with Asoka

2) 1370
We got astronomy, so...
Hatsy offers us silk for deer. My deear, of course we take it! As well as spices for sugar.
Hmm, let's see the big picture. Started Civil service with a long term goal Libarelism.

Moscow: Globe Theatre->Observatory
Novogrod: Worker->Observatory
New Sparta: Theatre->Library
Burgundian needs Coloseum no more, so switched back to market
We can run at 0% lux now, with 50% sci we are at -16

3) 1380
Jules wants OB. Why not, I can only hope no pesky religion comes from his side.
Bryansk founded and we jumped instantly from -10 to -22. Started theatre there.

4) 1390
Anasazi: Lighthouse -> Court
Athens: Court -> Market

5) 1400
Jules wants our Corn for his incense. OK, no problem guy
Someone built Chichen Itza already, one problem less.

IBT: After Lord McCauley we are the 3rd most cultured civ :)
Yaroslawl: Court->Cat

6) 1410
Civil Service->Paper

Thermo: Court->Market

7) 1420
Normal work...

8) 1430
At last we are growing!
St. Pete: Court->Eleph
Yaroslavl: Cat->Cat (damn barb city, I lost an eleph there)
Vladiwostok: Market->Barracks
Burgundian: Market->Library

Met Washington: he us under Jules in score!
Made OB with him
Traded Theology+140g for Civil Service with Hatsy
Traded Feudalism+10g for Civil Service with Washington

9) 1440
M&M dialed us. He is the only one annoyed with us. First victim? He's up Guilds, but wants both Eng and Music for it. Sorry guy, we make bo such trades!
He also wanst deer for wine, I said no. Having him at minus because of trade and trading with him would make some minuses for us with other civs as well.
Bad news :(

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/ucel/Civ/judaism.jpg

I don't understand it: the unlucky city was in the middle of our empire, it is Smolensk. Should I burn it to the ground?

10) 1450
Paper->Education
Moscow: Observatory->Elephant
Novogrod: Observatory->Elephant
Yaroslavl: Cat->Cat

I can only hope leaving our country in better state as 10 turns before.
We are running 50% sci at +13. 60% will give us -18, so I leave the decision to regoarrarr
M&M still wants much too much for the guilds, but we'll buy it from someone sooner or later. For now I see no need developing it.

Our empire:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/ucel/Civ/Ucel01_empire1450.jpg

and save