Yes, you read the title correctly. We will be attempting a one city challenge, always war game!

Settings

Pangaea Landmass
Standard Size
Temperate Climate
Ancient Age
Natural Shoreline
Medium Sealevel
Normal Gamespeed

6 AIs, 1 Human

Enabled Rules:
Always War
One City Challenge
All Victories Enabled

Our civilization will be chosen by popular demand. We might want to go with Romans, but if we don't have any iron we would be screwed. In that case it would be prudent to go with Aztecs because their swordsman needs no resources.

In Civ 3 this was feasable because you could make colonies on resources outside your borders if you need them. We won't have that luxury in this game. We are that hardcore though! We will give it our best! We will probably lose, but we will die in glorious combat!

Roster:
Disruptive Idiot--Playing
Methos--On Deck
Rik Meleet
Conroe

Are you up for it?

--No More Slots, sorry--

Could be interesting, but I'm not so crazy to come into it :D. Anyway, what difficulty?

Could be interesting, but I'm not so crazy to come into it :D. Anyway, what difficulty?

Noble, no advantage, no disadvantage.

Im thinking 20 turns to start, and then 10 turns from then on for the length of each person's turn.

:hmm: Need more [read: a lot] practice on combat so why not. An OCC game, even AW, shouldn't be too time consuming.

And I had every intention of not joining any more SG's!!:lol:

I'll try it.

May I join, as well?

Well guys, glad you'll be joining me in this conquest of the world =)

I just tried this game on my own as the mongolians, I was lucky enough to get horses right with me, I was kublai khan so my borders expanded to encompass many resources.

I managed to wipe out two civilizations before the other four could mount a force to take me down. If I had access to iron or copper, things would have been completely different! Culture will be important so that we can grab the resources in our vicinity but we only really need two, copper and something else.

I must say I had quite a blast trying it out and I made it a point to be a thorn in the side of the other civs.

So, which civilization would you guys like to play? I'd like to be Mongolia (either Khan works =D) or Aztecs (to reduce resource dependency), but I think we could pull this off with any civ.

If the roster is not closed, I'm willing to join too. If it is, I'll be following that with great interest :P

So, which civilization would you guys like to play? I'd like to be Mongolia (either Khan works =D) or Aztecs (to reduce resource dependency), but I think we could pull this off with any civ.
My first thought about an OCC is to go with a culturely advantaged civ. A quick and earlier expansion of the borders would allow the most potential for resources within our border. However, I am not sure that building culture is the best idea in an always-war situation.

Having said that, I would probably lean towards Aztecs. Use the spiritual trait to run the 3 early religions. If you don't select a religion, you get +15cpt with all 3 of them. While doing that, build the warriors to defend/explore. After that get Archery and decide on the next 2 religions. Alternatively, get Archery, Bronze, and Iron Working ...

The more I think about it, my vote is for Aztecs.

My first thought about an OCC is to go with a culturely advantaged civ. A quick and earlier expansion of the borders would allow the most potential for resources within our border. However, I am not sure that building culture is the best idea in an always-war situation.

Having said that, I would probably lean towards Aztecs. Use the spiritual trait to run the 3 early religions. If you don't select a religion, you get +15cpt with all 3 of them. While doing that, build the warriors to defend/explore. After that get Archery and decide on the next 2 religions. Alternatively, get Archery, Bronze, and Iron Working ...

The more I think about it, my vote is for Aztecs.

Excellent idea. I agree that we have to grab at least one religion, we need it for theocracy. If we can last long enough we can get vassalage which will give us some seriously pumped up units. We pretty much have to win before the industrial era though, it's simply improbable that we would get so many essential resources in one city's borders.

In the beginning, the AI isn't too capable of fighting, but then they quickly mount an assault force regularly at around the classical era. They were even attacking in an organized fashion with each other! This isn't Civ 3 Always War I reckon, this is going to be a challenge.

The resource I would like to start with most is copper, it is absolutely crucial to have spearmen and axemen. We could manage without it but we would probably lose in the long run without hard counters. Swordsmen are nice, but we don't need them too much for city assaults (catapults and units with cover work well against archers). Horses would be absolutely lovely so that we can do some pillaging.

Well, we have our work cut out for us guys, let's play the world! (Oops, wrong game :P)

Obviously I suggest we not explore right off. Since this is AW we need to have some sort of build-up before meeting anyone.

Use the spiritual trait to run the 3 early religions. If you don't select a religion, you get +15cpt with all 3 of them.

Even Sirian/Speaker (can’t remember which one) we’re surprised to get the first three religions in RB1. As they stated extensive testing was done to prevent that. Unless we have high commerce out the gate I don’t see it happening. Won’t know until we see are start. Even just two religions would be helpful.

Honestly I almost hesitate to chance the religion run. It won’t be too long before our enemies come calling so I feel we might want to get our land improved as much as possible before they do. Get a couple of the worker techs, improve the land, and than head for Iron Working and pray.

Realize I have no experience in CivIV with OCC AW (or AW at all) so the above is only speculation.

...

Which Civilization would you like to start as? :)

Even Sirian/Speaker (can't remember which one) we're surprised to get the first three religions in RB1. As they stated extensive testing was done to prevent that. Unless we have high commerce out the gate I don't see it happening. Won't know until we see are start.
I read that in RB1, as well. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I have not had any problems running the first 3 religions. Now, running the first 5 is another story. Basically, you need 10 commerce at the start of the game. If you found on the coast or a river, you should be able to get all 10.

You're right, though, it is a gamble. Depending on our draw, we could very well miss.

Realize I have no experience in CivIV with OCC AW (or AW at all) so the above is only speculation.Uh oh. :eek: Looks lik DI has got himself two OCC AW virgins on his hands. I should probably note to the group that I've only had C4 for 3 days, now. So, my experience is quite limited.

Which Civilization would you like to start as? :)

To be honest I’m not really sure. I don’t have enough experience with war to know what traits would be the best. The one thing I fear is not having iron in our borders and missing our UU [as Montezuma]. If we have copper than we’ll still have good units.

Alexander looks okay as they start off with the ability to build camps and the phalanx seems like a good unit. We’d also know right from the beginning whether copper was nearby [needed for UU].

Ghenghis Khan could be good as well. I’ve played with the Khesik and it’s a very good unit. Also the +2 health would definitely be helpful to keep our city at a high population.

In that case it would be prudent to go with Aztecs because their swordsman needs no resources.

Er, didn't notice that. That does make the Aztecs more appealing.

The problem with the Aztecs is that even though we'll have swordsmen without iron, they will be weaker. We are bound to have at least one resource near us, which hopefully would be copper or horses. Iron is of secondary importance as copper counters two unit types.

If we really want to gamble we can go with Rome and praetorians. That would be a very risky strategy but if we have iron we are practically guaranteed victory. Very risky and I wouldn't advise it.

Well, we have one other member who hasn't voiced their opinion, let's here it, Rik!

I'd like you to consider playing as Ghandi's India.
They are Spiritual; hence no anarchy. And Temples are half price. If we shoot for multiple religions the temples do help and are a logic play. India starts with Myst, which helps as well.
Those multiple cheap temples can be used to do religious scouting; switching religions to see the cities that also share that religion. And Civic-changes won't cause anarchy.
India is Industrious. It will not be really important to build half-price wonders, but who knows ? What is important is that India starts with mining. A step towards the metals.
And India has fast workers. 3 moves. That can just be enough to avoid capture.

We'll be needing metal, no matter what civ we choose. Or horses We'll be in deep trouble if we don't have it, so a civ with a metal or non-metal UU doesn't make that much of a difference.

...

Actually I was considering India too, for the fast worker. We will need to build our own supply lines to the enemy so that we can mass a powerful enough force on their borders quickly, workers with 3 movement would be very ideal in this situation.

If we have copper then we will have the mainstay of our army. If we have horses we have our resource denial to prevent UUs from showing up. I like your idea Rik. Who says we need a military civ to go always war?

The spirituality thing will help too, we will be able to switch to slavery without an interruption in crucial unit construction meaning whips to victory. The temples won't be so much of an advantage, we won't get much benefit after we get to 5000 culture. It is imperative we get a religion for theocracy so we can stack it with vassalage for lots of free XP. Spiritual will be useful and industrious will give us the option of building heroic epic and chichen itza, two very nifty wonders to have.

So, can we all unite in agreement over one civ? I'll get a screenshot of our starting position as soon as possible after we select a civ. I see the merits of all civilization choices so it's up to you guys on what we will do. I'll agree to anything you choose (except something random, like Roosevelt :lol:).

Well, my first choice would still be Aztec. I really like the free promotion for melee and gunpowder. Plus, hunting is the prerequisite for Archery.

Having said that, Rik does make a good argument for India. Mining is definitely one step closer to Bronze, and more expensive than Hunting. I could agree with this choice, as well.

I see the merits of all civilization choices so it's up to you guys on what we will do.

I'm with you, doesn't really matter much. I've still not used to all the traits and am curious how any of them pan out with this variant.

I think we'll go with Ghandi then. Both Aztecs and Indians have great merits, but it would add a bit of irony if we play as the peace-loving Ghandi in a game where our only goal is to destroy all others!

I will post a screenshot shortly!

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5589/di1start1uk.png

Behold! Our start position!

We have some hills around us which means we have a decent chance of copper and iron. I seriously doubt that we'll get horses, it seems like a longshot =( The sheep will let our city grow to one more size and we'll eventually grab that incense all the way to the right. If you guys want to stick with this start position, let's go for it! Otherwise I think it's ok if we restart to get a better position.

Should we settle on the hill? It would give us a defense bonus which I think we'll need.

As I recall settling on a plains hill causes the CC to earn 2 hammers.

If you guys want to stick with this start position, let's go for it! Otherwise I think it's ok if we restart to get a better position.It doesn't matter to me.

Should we settle on the hill? It would give us a defense bonus which I think we'll need.I normally don't like to settle on a hill, since it cannot then be mined. As I understand the game, you have to have a mine for a new resource to appear. However, the defensive bonus is probably more prudent, given our game parameters. Which hill did you have in mind?

It doesn't matter to me.

I normally don't like to settle on a hill, since it cannot then be mined. As I understand the game, you have to have a mine for a new resource to appear. However, the defensive bonus is probably more prudent, given our game parameters. Which hill did you have in mind?

You automatically get a resource a city is founded on.

I was planning on scouting south with my warrior and seeing if the southern hill has any goodies, if it doesn't I'll try my luck with the north one.

Here goes nothing, I'm starting my turn!

Roster:
Disruptive Idiot--Playing
Methos--On Deck
Rik Meleet
Conroe

You automatically get a resource a city is founded on.No, that's not what I was talking about. Whenever you build a mine, there is a small chance each turn that a new resource will be discovered (according to the civilpedia). My assumption is that if you do not build a mine, then a new resource will never randomly appear on that tile.

Turn 1, 4000 BC
Our mighty civilization will flourish in this fertile valley!
I move our warrior southeast to scout the southern area around us, if it is fertile, we shall found our glorious stronghold ont he southern hill!
There are quite a few hills down there, meaning more chances to get resources! I'll opt to move south with the settler and settle on that magnificent hill!

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/4269/di4000bc4dj.png

Turn 2, 3960 BC
Delhi is founded! I move our warrior south again to see if anything nifty lies there. Nothing so I'll just move him back to Delhi. We don't need to scout, in fact, we don't WANT to scout :P
I opt for Meditation because it is cheaper than polytheism, better safe than sorry!
I start on an obelisk so that we can get some culture flowing. Our warrior shouldn't have a problem defending until we get an archer. After the obelisk, which is due in 15 turns, I will go for a warrior.

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/4746/di3960bc2av.png

Turn 3-4, 3880 BC
Move our warrior back to Delhi, that's it.

Turn 5-7, 3840-3760 BC
Fortify warrior and start chilling. Our borders expand on their own but I want another expansion so we can grab more hills and the gold faster, you don't know what treasures may be lurking in them.

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/5932/di3760bc1cn.png

Turn 8-9, 3720-3680 BC
Chillin!

Turn 10, 3640 BC
They say a picture is worth a thousand words:
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/3595/di3640bc5mg.png
I start on Hunting because we need Archery ASAP and Hunting is required for Archery. It is due in 5 turns.

Turn 11-14, 3600-3480 BC
Montezuma finds us with a scout, we are automatically pitted into war. Obelisk finishes next turn =)
Good thing it took him that long to find us with a scout, we have some time to form a defense. Hunting is due next turn.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8902/di3480bc9uu.png

Turn 15, 3440 BC
Start on archery and a fast worker. I want to work our sheep so that the city grows faster. It is due in 10 and don't worry, our warrior should do just fine with his +70% bonus (making him more powerful than an archer).

Turn 16-20, 3400-3240 BC
Montezuma's scout shuffles back and forth a bit and Hinduism is founded in a distant land. I did not want to go for it, sorry guys. I want archers more than I want a culture bomb.


That is it. Worker due in 5, archery due next turn and we have secured ourselves a religion. You may not agree with my choices, but once we get archery we can start going on the offensive with warriors. You may be laughing but with archers we will be invincible for quite a while allowing us to find montezuma and wipe him out. We will pillage and rape his lands!

Looking good, so far.

You may not agree with my choices, but once we get archery we can start going on the offensive with warriors.With Monty being that close, Archery was probably a smart choice. An archer defending a city on a hill will definitely be hard to take down.

Got it. Looks like we may get some very early fighting in.

Hinduism is founded in a distant land. I did not want to go for it, sorry guys. I want archers more than I want a culture bomb.

Understandable. I can see possibly attempting if we had not met anyone, but with already knowing the Aztecs we need to get prepared.

No barracks yet huh? Probably should get a unit or two first and wait on the barracks until Delhi is big enough to build it quick.

Looking good, so far.

With Monty being that close, Archery was probably a smart choice. An archer defending a city on a hill will definitely be hard to take down.

Like I said, our security will be guaranteed once we get archers until the copper wars. We have plenty of hills meaning guerilla is a must for units that protect tiles from pillaging and it gives us a good chance of copper/iron. I want to start pressuring as many civs as possible so that they can't progress in power too much. The longer we deny contact, the more we hurt ourselves, but if we contact too fast, we will die.

Roster:
Disruptive Idiot
Methos--Playing
Rik Meleet--On Deck
Conroe

Here is the save:

Don't think, one city always war can grow to a resonable size, because of health and happiness problems. Don't think your (health and happiness) research can keep up with the growth of the researching city. It will work well in the beginning though.

I'd like to be proven wrong, but I really think the only way to win this is an (early) conquest victory on a pangea map.

Defense is not an option, cause AI will pillage every spot in reach.

question: Why does denying contact hurt you??

Wasn’t for sure how many turns we were supposed to play so I did 20. Hope that was okay. Seems like games have been going with first turnset is 20, 10 after. You might want to mention DI what you prefer we do. I apologize if I went over.

3200 BC (1): Borders expand, bringing the gold within our borders. Archery>Animal Husbandry. We need a pasture to bring those sheep in.

3040 BC (5): Worker>Archer. Adjust Delhi for faster growth. Move the worker out and realize the only thing he is capable of doing is mining. Why than did we build him?

2840 BC (10): Animal Husbandry>The Wheel. We need the ability to road to connect the resources.

2680 BC (14): Archer>Barracks.

2600 BC (16): The Wheel>Bronze Working

Notes:
-IMO we built a worker way too soon. What’s the point in building a worker when he can’t do anything? We should have built an archer first for defense at least.
-It also would have been wiser to wait the two additional turns before starting the worker anyway. Delhi was capable of making +4 fpt and was 7 food shy of size 4. Had we waited those two turns that would have produced the worker that much faster.
-Since we had the worker I went for some of the worker techs, at least the ones that would connect our resources.
-We’re currently at size 5 and the barracks will be done in 3 turns.
-We have 5 forests so don’t chop any of them. They provide +2 health.
-We’re currently stable health-wise, though the sheep will gain +1 health. Above size 6 and we’ll be unhealthy. I’m not really sure whether running unhealthy equals out.

Here’s the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_BC-2440.Civ4SavedGame).

Roster:

Disruptive Idiot
Methos- Just Played
Rik Meleet- Up
Conroe- On Deck

...

Are you sure? We start with mining, I made workers so we could start mining up the hills. Sorry if I didn't make it clear, but I said this round will be 20 turns each and then every subsequent round will be 10 turns.

Don't think, one city always war can grow to a resonable size, because of health and happiness problems. Don't think your (health and happiness) research can keep up with the growth of the researching city. It will work well in the beginning though.

I'd like to be proven wrong, but I really think the only way to win this is an (early) conquest victory on a pangea map.

Defense is not an option, cause AI will pillage every spot in reach.

question: Why does denying contact hurt you??

Denying contact means the AI won't be in a wartime state of mind, they will expand as usual and tech as usual leaving us behind. If they're at war with us they will focus on military which makes sure they won't get too far ahead of us.

Are you sure? We start with mining, I made workers so we could start mining up the hills.

I did do some mining. Mined a hill plus the gold. Probably should have noted that better in my turnlog.

Denying contact means the AI won't be in a wartime state of mind, they will expand as usual and tech as usual leaving us behind. If they're at war with us they will focus on military which makes sure they won't get too far ahead of us.

Didn't think about the not meeting AI's would allow them to expand more. Interesting tactic!

Please don't forget the people with bad internet connections and use *.jpg pictures. 500k per picture causes huge load times ;)

I got it
I'll take 20 turns.

Please don't forget the people with bad internet connections and use *.jpg pictures. 500k per picture causes huge load times ;)

Sorry. Try better next time.:)

IHT - : State of the nation Check: All looks good. I do slow down in growth a bit for extra hammers. We are on the limits of our health due to floodplains.
I do see the Aztec borders.

1 - 2400BC: sheep connected. Extra health.

3 - 2320BC: Barracks finished. As a Aztec unit is visible, production is set to archer. In our screen we see we've met Saladin. He's the one that founded Hinduism. We are already at war with him. I can't remember doing that, so I check our log. It says that we declared war on him the previous turn. ??? Is this intentional due to the AW rules ??

6 - 2280BC: Judaism founded in a far away land.

8 - 2200BC: Bronze is learned. It seems we have no source of copper, so I start in Iron Working. Switch to Slavery.

9 - 2160BC: Archer ready. Start on another Archer. I fortify the archer without promoting him.

10 - 2120BC: Aztec scout stays close to our borders. Send in an archer to scare him away and scout a bit.

11 - 2080BC: Archer trained. Another archer ordered.

12 - 2040BC: Scout enters our lands. Archer kills him, promoting to level 5.

13 - 2000BC: Montezuma's borders expand and are now clearly visible.

IBT: According to Lord McCauley we are hopelessly last in Advanced-ness.

14 - 1960BC: Archer -> Archer. The newly trained archer goes out scouting.

15 - 1920BC: Spices detected just outside our borders.

16 - 1880BC: Archer -> Archer. The newly trained archer goes out scouting. Hut detected.

17 - 1840BC: Hut gives us 83 gold. Sugar found, not too close to our borders. I don't think we'll ever connect it.

18 - 1800BC: Archer -> Archer. The newly trained archer goes out scouting. Gold connected. Archer attacks Aztec scout and barely wins. 1.2 / 3. But he does get a 5th and6 6th experience point.

19 - 1760BC: Set archer to heal. 6 turns.

20 - 1720BC: Archer -> fast worker. Scouting archer spot barbs and Copper. It's in Aztec lands. We might need a culture bomb to get it.

Just a thought; how can we ever win a conquest victory if our capital isn't coastal so we can never build boats ?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/1720_BC.jpg

The map was set to Pangaea, we won't need boats.

I think we may have to restart if we don't get Iron. We need at least one military resource to make this possible. =(

There is a "Balanced" map script available in the custom game options that places all strategic resources within 4 tiles from your start. Seems perfect for an AW OCC.

We are already at war with him. I can't remember doing that, so I check our log. It says that we declared war on him the previous turn. ??? Is this intentional due to the AW rules ??

Yes, since the AW option was checked the game automatically declares war upon meeting them. Kind of handy.

I think we may have to restart if we don't get Iron. We need at least one military resource to make this possible. =(

Hmm, do you really feel like we'd have to restart? This could just make it more challenging. Not that an OCC AW isn't already a challenge!:lol:

Yes, since the AW option was checked the game automatically declares war upon meeting them. Kind of handy.



Hmm, do you really feel like we'd have to restart? This could just make it more challenging. Not that an OCC AW isn't already a challenge!:lol:

If you want to go AW OCC with warriors and archers, I'm all for it :lol:

It looks like I'm up.

Unfortunately, I cannot find the save ....:confused:

It looks like I'm up.

Unfortunately, I cannot find the save ....:confused:

It seems Rik didn't include it :blush:

You might want to start some military operations and send an archer to disconnect Aztec copper. We will lose a war of attrition if we let them have their copper. If we don't have iron, feel free to throw them game. We might start on balanced map as suggested so that resources aren't a matter.

It seems Rik didn't include it :blush: Rik is an idiot (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_BC-1720.Civ4SavedGame)

I don't really want to restart if we don't have Iron. Resources do pop up sometimes, somewhere. And if we also don't get Iron popped in our lands; let them kill us before we surrender. We are India !!

From the manual:
For instance, if you choose to play a game with the “Always War” option, all civilizations will always be a war with one-another. There will be no Open Borders agreements, no technology trading, no peace treaties, etc. – just unending battle.
This sort of means that Always War - cIV style is "Always war for everyone". That does change the game a bit, now doesn't it ?

Got It ...:dance:

I'll play it later tonight ...

Lurker's comment:


I beat a Settler AW OCC with no iron or copper, using horse archers and elephants to defend myself until going on the offensive with rifleman. Not sure if this will work on noble, but don't give up just because you lack metals.

From the manual:

This sort of means that Always War - cIV style is "Always war for everyone". That does change the game a bit, now doesn't it ?

Lurker's Comment: I've read elsewhere on these forums (don't remember where) that the manual is wrong on this. In multiplayer AW, everyone is always at war, but if what I read was correct, single player AW is just AW for the person; the AI relate as normal.

Lurker's Comment: I've read elsewhere on these forums (don't remember where) that the manual is wrong on this. In multiplayer AW, everyone is always at war, but if what I read was correct, single player AW is just AW for the person; the AI relate as normal.

That's right, I have tried a couple of OCC AW on my own and the AI cooperates in my destruction :cry: They're not at war with each other.

I beat a Settler AW OCC with no iron or copper, using horse archers and elephants to defend myself until going on the offensive with rifleman. Not sure if this will work on noble, but don't give up just because you lack metals.

Sadly, we don't have horses or ivory either. :(

Turn 0 (1720BC): Assessing the situation ... None of our 7 archers have been promoted. A Warrior and 2 Archers are tasked with defending our Glorious City while the other 5 archers are spread out around our lands. We are researching Iron Working which is due in 3 turns.
Our Glorious City is actually a rotting cesspool of unhealthy filth. It will start to stink up the neighborhood after our next growth. Speaking of growth, we currently have growth on hold while a worker, due in 4, is being built.

IBT: Monty adopts slavery

Turn 1 (1680BC): Move some of the archers around... Nothing really exciting to note at all.

IBT: Napoleon sends a scout in from the NE. We are, of course, at war.

Turn 2 (1640BC): We manage to locate Monty's capital - he is defending it with two unpromoted archers. From looking at the buildings, he has a barracks.

Turn 3 (1600BC): Iron Working comes in, ushering us into the Classical Era. Set research to Masonry. But the question everybody is dying to have answered ...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_Iron.jpg
:woohoo: :band: Yeppers, we got iron.

In the south, a barb on a hill is defending a goody hut. This may be suicide, but ... The barb gets whacked and we steal his 63gold.

Meanwhile, back at Tenochitlan, we didn't bring enough snacks to share with the party. While waiting for some big guys with swords to show up, our Archers pillage a mine for 7gold.

Turn 4 (1560BC): Worker->Monastery. We can't start on swordsman until the iron is hooked up, so I build a Monastery for the +10% research.

Turn 5 (1520BC): Horses & Marble spotted way up north -- well beyond our reach ...

Turn 6 (1480BC): :coffee:

IBT: Monty builds an Archer at Tenochitlan and attacks our fortified Archer on a hill. Not a smart move, Monty.

Turn 7 (1440BC): Napoleon is now short :D one scout. Our northern Archer, who earlier whacked an Aztec scout, whacks this one as well.

Turn 8 (1400BC): Our Monastery completes giving us 1 more beaker. Iron is now hooked up. QUE UP: one swordsman!

Masonry->Writing

Turn 9 (1360BC) and Turn 10 (1320BC): Monty has an archer that seems determined to reach our Glorious City. But, as long as he's on those hills, not much I can do about it... :undecide: But, then, at the last moment, he heads for the IRON :eek: does he intend to pillage? Since all of our archers are still unpromoted, I quickly promote one to Combat 1. Odds are now only even money! WE WIN! But barely, our archer is in a world of pain! But, most importantly, our iron was saved from pillage.

Turn 11 (1280BC): Our first swordsman -- promote to City Raider 1 and send him east along with an unpromoted archer.

I bring back our two most experienced archers and promote them both to City Garrison I. They both are still eligible for 1 more promotion. I thought about going ahead and giving them Garrison II, but thought it better to wait. These two are now the defense of our Glorious City.

IBT A Japanese warrior comes out of the fog from the North. We are now at war with Tokugawa. This warrior has combat III promotion.

Turn 12 (1240BC): :coffee:

IBT Monty sends two warriors sneaking in from the south.

Turn 13 (1200BC): Swordsman->Swordsman
Promote to City Raider 1 and head east... to downtown Tenochitlan!

IBT At the sight of our archer on a hill, the Japanese run away, back into the fog ...

Turn 14 (1160BC): :sleep:

IBT Monty's two warriors are still trying to sneak in from the south.

Turn 15 (1120BC): A barb city is discovered to our North. Since we have no expansion plans, I am going to just leave it alone.

IBT One of Monty's southern warriors impales on our archer. One of the barbarians attacks our lone warrior.

Turn 16 (1080BC): Writing->Mathematics due in 17 turns
Swordsman->Swordsman

IBT The Japanese Combat III warrior is back ...

Turn 17 (1040BC): Our just-built, unpromoted Swordsman attacks Monty's lone warrior and gets a bloody nose ...

Turn 18 (1000BC): Our first warrior has arrived at Tenochitlan. I don't really like the odds here -- 6 to 5.5 -- but we will never be able to improve on them without a catapult. Maybe we'll get lucky. :wallbash: So much for luck, our first Swordsman dies in a hail of bullets -- er, Arrows. And thus ends our first attack of a city ...

Now, at this point I am forced to stop before completing the 20 turns. The game crashes every time I press the end turn button. :frown: Hopefully, it is just me ...

Currently researching Mathematics, which is due in 15 turns. A new Swordsman will be ready next turn. My goal on the research is to get to Construction and thus be able to build some catapults. In the meantime, I was just trying to crank out the swords...

You've got a sword and two archers at Tenochitlan ready for action. Do with them as you will.

So much for luck, our first Swordsman dies in a hail of bullets -- er, Arrows. And thus ends our first attack of a city ...

If I missed this in your turnlog, my apologies.

From my understanding of CivIV warfare it is better to pillage improvements rather than attacking the city directly. Most city bonuses are so high that without cats its just too risky. If you pillage the improvements the AI will send some of its troops out to stop you.

I have also read many times that when the AI attacks it typically pillages rather than attacks cities.

From my understanding of CivIV warfare it is better to pillage improvements rather than attacking the city directly. Most city bonuses are so high that without cats its just too risky. If you pillage the improvements the AI will send some of its troops out to stop you.
It probably would have been better to not attack the city. What's that old line: "Do you feel lucky, punk?" Well, I was feeling lucky. Our odds were 6 to 5.5, just barely in our favor. Unfortunately, ..... :cry: :cry: I lost ..... :blush: our very first swordsman. :(

You're right, the cats would help out a lot. Unfortunately, we are still aways away from them. I knocked out Masonry and Writing, but the expensive techs of Math and Construction still remain.

Oh, I should also note that Monty has a worker and a settler holed up in Tenochitlan. So far, he has been reluctant to send them out, for fear that I would whack them.

:dance: :dance: :band: :drool:

We have iron!

Ok guys, iron ROCKS, we have access to pretty much all the resources we need until the industrial age! Let's get this war on the road! We'll need axemen to accompany our swordsmen and archers, let's switch over from growth to production!

Now we must spread out and invite all the civs to our bloodbath, we shall proclaim to the land our challenge to civilization! Delhi is the only true city!

Ok Only 10 turns from now on

I am up, let's get physical :scan:
I am up!

Roster:
Disruptive Idiot--Playing
Methos--On Deck
Rik Meleet
Conroe

What I think works best is to choose for our swordsmen the promotion "combat 1" as that opens the option "Cover". 25% against archers turns out to be better than City Raider promotions. This is confirmed in playtesting, ( although not by me personally).

What I think works best is to choose for our swordsmen the promotion "combat 1" as that opens the option "Cover". 25% against archers turns out to be better than City Raider promotions. This is confirmed in playtesting, ( although not by me personally).

That may be true but our true intention should not be to take out capitals, but to cripple capitals and destroy all other cities. I fear by now the other civs will have empires and may even have macemen if we're very unlucky, I shall during my turn make contact as much as possible and hopefully that will bring the war to it's most ideal setting. Then we slowly build our supply lines and bring the battle to enemy.

Playing now.

Preturn: Alright, I see we have two workers doing nothing, so I'm going to put them to use towards making a supply road to montezuma. We don't need them to do anything do we? I will also start chopping outside our territory to get more shields coming in.

I also see we don't have the 25% bonus we should have from monotheism, I'll make that a point after we get catapults, which are more important anyway.

The aztecs have cows hooked up! That is not tolerable by our archers! I must make sure he doesn't have the chance to grow some more, I plan on making another archer and positioning him there, he won't move for a while. It is also the only connection Monty's capital has to the outside world, gotta keep him in the dark and away from resources!

Time to start the war!

Turn 1, 975 BC

Swordsman is completed, we will need to stay on top of tech so I go for a library.

I realize those barbarian cities are acting like a buffer for us. Excellent! Fate is smiling upon us, even though we don't have horses (we'd absolutely win if we had horses).

I start moving our swordsmen towards the other Aztec cities. Once montezuma is out of the way we can go after the likes of tokugawa and napoleon. The top civs will be very hard to crack but I am confident our war-waging skills will bog them down. There are two unknown civilizations, they will be the biggest threat because they aren't at war with us.

Oh goody!

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/5314/di975bc9ry.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That is just wonderful! Only one more to go, then we have to beef up our defenses and take their attacks, slowly gaining an advantage as they will neglect technology and we have the advantage of one easily defendable location.

IBT:

:eek:

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/1975/di975bcibt3rr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

One and a half turns and I have already completed one of my goals! Nice!

Turn 2, 950 BC:

Now we go to war! :hammer:

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7946/di950bc5pd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

As you can see, Teotihuacan is a much easier target because it has no cultural bonus. Lucky we're grabbing it now! It has horses in its vicinity! You can't see from the shot, but it has 2 archers in it, not a hard match for our swordsmen!

Turn 3, 925 BC:

We have a 6.0 to 4.3 chance of winning with our lone swordsman if we attack now. Normally I wouldn't take such a chance, I would wait until our victory was secure before attacking, but I feel lucky today.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2171/di925bcbah1fi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Screw you RNG! Let that be a lesson to all of us (especially me!), never attack until your entire army is assembled, even if you have favorable chances!

Turn 4, 900 BC:

I will unleash my fury soon enough! Our two swordsman have assembled and will rendezvous at the gates of <insert very complex aztec name>!

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6379/di900bc7hg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Turn 5, 875 BC:

It's thrashing time next turn!

Turn 6, 850 BC:

Our level 2 swordsman is given combat I and attacks first! He is successful!

Our level 3 swordsman with combat I and cover is ready to attack, and I realize he is wounded! God I'm so stupid. Oh well, he still has even better chances than our previous swordsman to win!

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2425/di850bc5ag.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Behold! The only problem is our wounded soldier is easy pickings for that archer, I pray he will survive!

IBT: Freaking archer attacks him. Bah! I will avenge his death however!

Turn 7, 825 BC:

Library completes and stonehenge is recommended, it will take 5 turns to complete. Should we bother? I don't think 5 turns would be inconsequential but we don't get a very big benefit. I build another swordsman instead. I kill that renegade archer and head back home.

Turn 8, 800 BC:

We have a road completed to the front lines of the war on montezuma. I am confident we will be able to crush him in a few turns. Our units in the north are also on pillaging missions against the Americans. They are apparantly the closest to us in the north.

IBT: Montezuma tries to break our siege with an archer, but we destroy it.

Turn 9, 775 BC:

Swordsman completes, now the pyramids are suggested! Now, police state would be very snazzy and all, but it would take 21 turns to complete! I don't think we should have such commitment right now! I won't go for it but let's have a discussion about it after this. The great engineer points would be nice down the road as well, but down the road =P

I start on an axeman to counter swordsman and archers. Spearmen should be constructed to deal with any mounted units but I doubt we will see them much.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5008/di775bc4rc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Apparently, monty has another city he has been keeping a secret from us. We shall destroy it promptly as well!

I think our swordsman might have a chance at bringing down Tenotchitlan once we can get four or five of them. It would be much easier to just wait for catapults though =P

All swordsman reconvene at Archer's Peak, south of tenotchitlan, the capital of the inferior Aztecs!

There is a swordsman healing in our territory, he will awaken when he is done.

Turn 10, 750 BC:

I scouted out parts of America, and washington is held nice and locked up tight. It will be harder to crack than Tenotchitlan, but not so much once we field some catapults!

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3156/di750bc9uj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Due to my lack of micromanagement, I see Delhi is not at max production because of sickness. I have made the growth stagnant so don't be afraid to use the whip to bring them down a notch. If you irrigate two flood plains we will be able to snag another mine.

Got it, but won't be able to play until tomorrow.

I don't believe the Pyramids are worth it. 21 turns is a lot of units.

Got it, but won't be able to play until tomorrow.

I don't believe the Pyramids are worth it. 21 turns is a lot of units.

The thing is, we would have 25% extra production and cut war weariness with it. If we pair that with the heroic epic we will have a 125% boost in production for military units, and we would have a great engineer popping out of it. The only risk I see is the chance another civ will grab it, but they haven't even grabbed stonehenge yet, meaning the AI is in a war-time situation.

I forgot to add that we can chop forests outside our borders to accelerate the process. With the pyramids down we will be at a military efficiency we would otherwise get in the industrial era.

Lurker's comment:

Assuming the pyramids take you 20 turns to build, you'd have to spend 80 turns building units between now and the time you discover fascism in order to make it worthwhile (25% of 80 = 20, or the time you wasted buildilng pyramids). This is probably likely to happen, and the 80 number is assuming that your production won't increase and that you have no will have ill effects from war weariness (both very doubtful), so the actual break-even point in terms of hammeres will probably be far less than 80 turns of unit-building.

You also have to consider the benefit of the great engineer, who can help get Oxford University or another wonder up many turns faster, maybe even saving you the original 20.

The only problem is whether or not you are able to survive 20 turns with no military units.

I am confident that we will be able to survive, especially since forest chops will cut the time even further. Our crucial resources and City are on hills, if we need extra safety we can get walls nullifying all assault until catapults show up en masse. I say we go for it now, maybe after taking some precautions. The biggest risk is losing the race, but I'm confident the AI isn't spending it's time making wonders when it has a city to assault.

I'm with DI on this. Pyramids seems worth it.
We could withdraw our units in the capital and prevent loss that way. That means stopping exploring; but our main exploration goal; meeting everyone; has been accomplished.

Edit:Worst case scenario: we switch in the middle of Pyra building in case we desperately need a unit.

So then I need to start Pyramids, okay.

One thing on the forests chop, we need to keep them at either 3 or 5 to gain the health bonus.

forest chop outside your workable tiles, that way you get the hammers without losing the health bonus

The cool thing with CivIV is you can interrupt the building of a wonder with another quick build without having to abandon it entirely.

So then I need to start Pyramids, okay.

One thing on the forests chop, we need to keep them at either 3 or 5 to gain the health bonus.

Any updates Methos? Waiting on you. If you don't post your turn by tomorrow 6PM we'll have to skip you or something :(

Don't worry, I'm playing tonight. Ended up having a family get together last night with my wives family so wasn't able to do any civving at all.:sad:

750 BC: Notice the wheat isn’t connected, so plan on heading a road that way.

725 BC: :aargh: The Pyramids were just built somewhere else Axemen>Axemen.

700 BC: Napoleon adopts Representation. I’m guessing this mean the French built the Pyramids.

675 BC: Mathematics>Agriculture. Axemen>Aqueduct.

600 BC: Agriculture>Polytheism

550 BC: Aqueduct>Axemen.

-The swordsmen north of the Aztec city needs to heal. Forgot and moved him.
-Several archers attacked me from the Aztec capitol. All of them failed.
-Went for Hinduism but wish now that I hadn't. Was hoping the Organized Religion +25% would help us. Realize I should have gone straight for cats.
-The wheat is now connected so we can grow one more pop. Granted when we do we’ll be at -1 happiness.
-I’m not for sure but if we convert to Hinduism or some religion won’t that increase our happiness?
-Not for sure if they are worth it, but the HG is now available. I don't believe it's worth it for this game, but figured I'd mention it to the rest of you.

Here's the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_BC-0500.Civ4SavedGame).

I'm not for sure but if we convert to Hinduism or some religion won't that increase our happiness?If memory serves me correctly, I think we already converted to Buddism.


Not for sure if they are worth it, but the HG is now available. I don't believe it's worth it for this game, but figured I'd mention it to the rest of you.Well, with 5 FP tiles in our city radius, health is going to be a continual problem for us. The Hanging Gardens will give us 1 more health, plus great engineer points. But, is it worth it? I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I guess I still have my Civ3 hat on and I just don't like to build wonders.

I guess I still have my Civ3 hat on and I just don't like to build wonders.

This has been floating around my mind as well. I'm trying to get off the build a wonder early so I don't go through that like I did with CivIII. One thing though, this game wonders seem a little more involved, especially when you consider great people.

Roster:
Disruptive Idiot
Methos
Rik Meleet--Playing
Conroe--On Deck

Rik, have you got it yet?

Roster:
Disruptive Idiot
Methos
Rik Meleet--Playing
Conroe--On Deck

Rik, have you got it yet?I'll take it.

In future; please PM me when I am up. I usually log onto CFC daily, but since moderating sometimes takes a lot of time I'm not always checking if I'm up in a SG.

IHT: We are starving and have a normal citizen. Correcting that. Too many units are fortified. Free them and Pillage with them. I see several Barb cities. This is good; barbarians are our friends. They are, just like us, a civilization which is at war with everyone. Don't kill them.

IBT: Our axeman kills an archer. Polytheism is learned. I dub between Priesthood (temples) or COnstruction (catapults). I choose Priesthood as it is a lot cheaper.

1 - 475 BC. Delhi sword -> sword.
Cities are way to strongly defended to be taken. Pillaging is the message.


3 - 425 BC. Our axeman kills an archer. Sword -> sword.

IBT: Priesthood is learned. Construction next.

5 - 375 BC. Use our workers to cut down forests which are inside our cultural borders, but not in our city range. Position troops for an attack on Tenoch soon.

According to Toynbee we are number 4 in "most advanced civ"-list. Unexpected.

6 - 350 BC. Delhi: sword -> Bud temple.

IBT: Our axeman kills an Jag on defense. Americans raze a closeby Barb town.

7 - 325 BC. Attack. Sword kills archer.

IBT: Buddhist temple finishes, allowing us to grow 1 size bigger without problems. Start sword.

8 - 300 BC. sword dies trying to kill archer.

IBT: Confucianism founded far away.

9 - 275 BC. Sword kills archer.

10 - 250 BC. We are at max happyness and max health. It's no use growing anymore for now.

---

We better start focussing on military. Take out cities one by one. Archers and axemen aren't going to do it. Swords might; but probably not unpromoted.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_BC-0250.Civ4SavedGame)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Civ4ScreenShot00121.JPG

Got It! :dance:

I will play it today. It will probably take me most of the day, the crashes have been getting a lot worse lately.

Any last minute thoughts? It looks like we are still researching construction. I have yet to look at the save, but my initial thoughts are to build swords until construction comes in and then switch to cats.

Good luck! Bring honor to our names!

Roster:
Disruptive Idiot--On Deck
Methos
Rik Meleet
Conroe--Playing

Situation Assessment: It looks like we are currently using our 18 beakers per turn to research Construction, which is due in 13 turns. Our city is currently at a population of 9; health is at 11 of 11 and happiness is at 9 of 9. The city governor is currently off. Population growth is currently stagnant. Production is set to Swordsman, due next turn. The treasury is 167 gold pieces at -3gpt.

Militarily, we have 7 Archers, 5 Swordsman, and 2 Axeman. Two of our Archers, promoted to City Garrison II, are defending our city. An unpromoted Archer guards our source of gold. A Combat II promoted Archer guards our corn source. We have a lone, inexperienced, archer that has traveled north to reach the outskirts of New York. The bulk of our forces surround the capital of our neighbor, Montezuma. Monty's Archers are fairly well fortified in Tenochtitlan; one of his Archer's has City Garrison I and the other has City Garrison II.

Objectives: My first priority will be to learn Construction so that we can start building Catapults. I probably will refrain from attacking any cities until the cats are online. Instead, I will concentrate on pillage and some exploration of targets for when we have our cats.

We have acquired 20% of the 5000 culture needed for the next border expansion. Once that expansion happens, we will have a source of spices, and its accompanying happy face, within our border. To further this along, I am thinking of building a wonder. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that building wonders is the right thing to do when you are at war with the entire planet. Stonehenge gives 8 culture and 2 leader points, plus it is cheap at 4 turns. Unfortunately, its benefit of a free oblisk will not benefit us; although, the map center function theortically could. The Hanging Gardens gives 6 culture and 2 leader points, and more importantly +1 health. At 9 turns, the cost is a little more difficult to swallow. It takes 2 turns to build each Swordsman, so that is 4.5 less Swordsman available to commit to battle. Our third choice, the Parthenon, would be really nice, as well. It sports +10cpt and a 50% increase in leader points. But, at 12 turns (or 6 Swordsman), I think it is just too pricey for us at the moment.

Turn 0 (250BC): Turn on city governor and set to emphasize research. This drops construction research down from 13 turns to 8 turns. It also bumps the Swordsman completion from next turn to 2 turns. Sei la vie! The cats are more important at the moment.

Before:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_250bc_before.JPG
After:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_250bc_after.JPG

Next, we send one of swordsmen off to pillage Monty's stone quarry.

Turn 1 (225BC): Our northern Archer starts pillaging some of the cottages around New York. One of our workers is tasked with continuing to build farms on the flood plains. The other worker is ordered to continue chopping forests.

Turn 2 (200BC): Swordsman->Stonehenge
I choose Stonehenge over the Gardens. I'm not sure that it is a smart move, but I choose it because it is cheaper (5 turns now that we've optimized for research).

The swordsman that pillaged Monty's stone quarry is injured. I did not notice that earlier. To heal in enemy territory will take 13 turns, so I am moving him into neutral territory.

IBT: Ouch! It looks like Monty wants his cows back. He sends a Jaguar Warrior that takes out our Axeman. Our ax gives him a couple of scratchs, but ends up dying. Then another Jaguar takes on our Archer. Our Archer does a little bit more damage, giving the Jaguar a bloody nose before succumbing to the Jag's blade. Monty has a total of 3 Jaguars, two of which now have Combat II promotions.

George has an extra Axman in New York. If he decides to use it against our pillaging Archer, we will probably be short another archer.

Turn 3 (175BC): :coffee:

IBT: Speaking of George, he appears to be sending an Axeman up from Boston to take out our pillaging Archer. Our Archer will be sent running for the hills! Literally! On flat ground, he would be no match for that Axman.

Meanwhile, back at Tenochtitlan, Monty is feeling his oats! He sends two of his Jags against one of our City Raider I Swordsman. The first Jaguar was facing combat odds of 5.8 to our 9.3 -- it was a suicide run all of the way. But, he manages to take out about a third of our health. Then the second Jaguar attacks our Swordsman; his combat odds were 6 to our 7.77, but he did more than just give us a bloody nose. He cut off our nose!

Turn 4 (150BC): Chopping that forest took 1 turn off of Stonehenge. It will be done in 2 turns. Rather than chop down another forest (in 3 turns), I send him north of our borders to build some roads towards the former barbarian town of Bantu.

We have two Swordsman outside of Monty's second city of Tlatelolco (henceforth known as "too-late" or "too-late-loco", both of which I can pronounce). One of our swords has City Raider I and Cover promotions. Monty has two unpromoted archers in TooLate. Our odds are 6.6 to 3.9 that we will win. Lets go for it! Monty's Archers begin by punching our Swordsman in the nose. This makes our boys rather angry and they proceed to kill the archers. Now, our other Swordsman has no promotions, zip, zilch, nada, none. The combat odds are 6.0 to to 4.9 -- "Do you feel lucky, punk?" Tempting, but no I don't. Not really.

IBT: Now, at this point, I realize that I have done something very, very stupid. Remember our Swordsman that killed two Jaguars? Unfortunately I didn't remember him and left him all wounded and bloody sitting outside the gates of Tenochitlan. He died; it was an ugly death.

Turn 5 (125BC): First order of business: Revenge! Before our galliant Swordsman perished, he drew some blood from that Jaguar. The combat odds are 6.0 for our Swordsman versus 3.9 for Monty's legless Jaguar. The Jaguar dies quickly, without so much as scratching our sword. Tenochitlan is once again defended by only two archers.

Now, TooLate only has a single unpromoted Archer defending it. Whereas we have a City Raider I with Cover Swordsman and another unpromoted Swordsman. The combat odds are 5.6 to 3.6, since our sword was wounded by the prior archer. I'm feeling lucky! I want to walk in the rubble that was once TooLate.

Unfortunately, Monty has a different idea. We no longer have a Swordsman with Combat I, City Raider I, and Cover promotions that was only 1xp shy of another promotion. :cry: Well, we still have an unpromoted Swordsman (6.0 to 3.9) standing at the ready. Let me tell you it was an ugly fight. As I was watching the combat unfold, I realized that I was going to lose us another Swordsman. This has got to be the most depressing thing I've ever seen! But then, ... in the end, ... with his last breath, ... our Swordsman comes back to defeat the Monty's Archer! It is finally too late for TooLateLoco as the city is razed to the ground. Our Swordsman, barely alive (1.5/6) stands in the rubble that was once TooLateLoco!

Meanwhile, the extra American Axman heading towards New York seems to have disappeared. I decide to take a chance and come down from the hills to go after New York's cows. We'll see if George will let me pillage them next turn.

Back at the former Barbarian town of Bantu, our Axman has a decision to make. George is sending an Archer into Bantu to beef up the defenses. Right now, they are exposed on grassland (5.5 vs 3.0), but our Axman has a Shock promotion instead of a Cover promotion. But wait, Saladin has also provided a Warrior for some target practice (5.5 vs 1.6). I decide to go for the Archer now, while I can. Hopefully, Saladin's Warrior will still be available next turn. That Archer gets a few licks in, but our Axman is still standing.

Turn 6 (100BC): Stonehenge completes! We have enough overflow to get an Axman in one turn. Well, since I lost one earlier, I should probably replace it, right?

Stonehenge centered the map. No big surprise ...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_MiniMap.JPG

Now, back to Bantu. Saladin was kind enough to leave his Warrior within range of our Axman. With Saladin being in first place, I decide to try and help him out by lowering his unit support costs. It wasn't what you would call a fair fight (4.7 to 1.6). They tried to run, but they didn't ... quite ... make it. Our Axman is now eligible for promotion. I leave him unpromoted for the time being. I'm thinking Cover promotion, to go along with his already Shock promotion, would make him an all-around "bad dude". Or, maybe a Combat II to keep him more specialized against the sword units they are going to start throwing our way. I leave the decision to those who would follow me ...

Meanwhile, up in New York, George discovers that his cows have escaped the pasture. If he will let me, the road connecting New York to the capital will be next.

IBT: George didn't like losing his cow pasture. Out of the fog comes an Axman. Our Archer did not stand a chance (5.0 vs 3.0). It was clearly sayonara time. Would you believe, George's Axman dies! We have won! But wait, within the walls of New York lurks another Axman. The odds are 5.0 to 0.7 that we will lose our galliant Archer. And lose it we did.... :sad:

Turn 7 (75BC): Axman->Swordsman

Construction is due in 1 turn. It would take 2 turns to train a unit. Since pre-building isn't allowed anymore, I rework the governor to get Construction in 2 turns. One more sword will be complete and we can then start the cats!!!!!!!!!

Other than that, things are kinda quite. Most of our troops are either on defense duty or healing from previous actions ...

IBT: George still wants to beef up the defenses at Bantu. Another Archer is dispatched from Philadelphia. I notice it is taking the long way around to avoid our Axeman! :lol: I really like this spot on the hill, but I think it might be better to move the Axeman into an intercept course.

Turn 8 (50BC): Nothing really to report. I start moving some of our forces around in preparation for the catapults. Another farm is built, so I dispatch the worker to complete the road to Tenochitlan. The other worker is building roads through the forest in a NW direction from our corn resource. Not really heading to any particular city, but the idea is to speed the forces out of our territory. I'm trying to avoid the grassland because it has no defensive value.

IBT: Out of the fog from the south, steps forth a barbarian Archer. I leave him alone for the time being, to see what his intentions might be.

Turn 9 (25BC): Construction comes in. We have Catapults! :band:

Up next ... Our choices are Pottery in 4 turns, Monotheism in 7 turns, or Monarchy in 17 turns. Sid recommends Fishing in 2 turns! ???? Fishing!?!?! :lol: We have no water tiles in our city radius!

Pottery will be needed because it is required for Metal Casting. Monotheism would give us the Organized Religion civic. That would then give us a +25% boost on building construction. In the near future, that building would be a Forge (see Pottery & Metal Casting above). So, it would be handy to have Monotheism before Metal Casting. I decide to go with Monarchy for two reasons: (1) Hereditary Rule will give us happy faces from our defense garrison, and (2) it is required to get Feudalasm and the Vassalage civic.

Swordsman->Catapult ... With the overflow from the previous build we will have our first cat next turn.

Next, I tell the city governor to emphasize research, which brings Monarchy down to 12 turns. I also allow the city to start growing again. It will take 11 turns to reach population 9. Hmmmm.... weren't we at pop 9 when I started? ^(*&^$(&#p#(&$(&@ Confound it! &@(*!@&*^$! Evidently I hit the pop rush button by accident on the last turn! I was wondering where all of that overflow came from. I thought I'd found a bug and even took a screenshot. :lol:

IBT: Taoism is founded in a distant land. Mansa Musa then adopts Pacifism, ergo he founded Taoism by researching Philosophy first.

Where is that Barbarian heading? He could be going for our gold or our wounded and healing Swordsman. I'll give it another turn...

Turn 10 (1AD): Catapult->Catapult

I turn off the emphasize research on the city governor. This drops Monarchy back to 14 turns, but allows us to have 2 turn Catapults.

I have left our newly built cat unpromoted and unmoved in Delhi. I will let the next person decide whether to send the cat to the east or northeast.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_1ad.JPG

I have tried to group our units into two attack forces. One force is fortified outside of Tenochitlan. Currently it consists of an Archer and a Swordsman. Two more Swordsman are "enroute". They are just inside our eastern border; although, one is injured and needs a couple more turns to heal. Our second force consists of 2 swordsman and an axeman. It is currently just southeast of Bantu. Each of our two workers has been assigned to these forces, respectively. They are currently building roads to speed the delivery of Catapults to the front lines.

Our Shock-promoted Axman is just northeast of Bantu. He is slightly wounded (4.3/5). Hopefully, George will send that Archer on the most direct route, which would be a defenseless grassland tile. If he does, the health of our Axman will not matter. In any case, the Axman is due a promotion, which would restore him to full health anyway. I came close to promoting him with Cover and whacking that American Archer, but I decided to wait and see if the odds didn't improve.

During my set, I have managed to lose a total of 5 troops. We now have 5 Archers, 2 Axeman, 5 Swordsman, and 1 Catapult. The two Swordsman that I lost were highly promoted and very valuable. Losing them hurt the most. In hindsight, I probably should have held off attacking TooLate until the cats were ready. And, I need to do a much better job of being aware of our unit positions. On a more positive note, they lost 8 troops. Monty lost all 3 of his Jaguar's -- I think he may be down to his last two Archers (assuming he doesn't have another city somewhere). And did I mention -- we got CATS!! :dance: :band: :dance:

Our research is a pathetic 20 beakers per turn. Unfortunately, I am not sure what we can do about it at the moment. Hereditary Rule should provide a near term solution to our happiness problems and allow Delhi to grow to, at least, 11 population. With the flood plains, we appear to have the food to support 2-3 specialist. This may be a near term patch for our research whoas.

Well, have fun and good luck! Let's see some screenshots of the Aztecs fall into oblivion! :goodjob:

You sir, have done us proud! It is not about how many of our brothers die in battle, it is about how many of their brothers get killed in the process!

I have got it, and I will lead us to victory! Down with Montezuma!

I'd like to note that promotions don't heal all the way, they heal half-way to full health, for our axeman, that would be 5.15. Still great, I think he'll be an all-around bad dude :D

Excellent turn, we might want to snag the Great Library if we want more research. It would also be great to get representation and caste system so we can beef up science even more.

I'd like to note that promotions don't heal all the way, they heal half-way to full health,You are, of cource, correct. Not sure what I was thinking about when I wrote that. :crazyeye: I guess thats what I get for trying to post at 2AM.

we might want to snag the Great Library if we want more research. It would also be great to get representation and caste system so we can beef up science even more.I had looked at going for the GL. My concern, though, was that we needed Alphabet before we could research Literature. Alphabet gives us no near-term advantages.

Now, Caste System, on the other hand, I forgot to consider. I believe that CoL is researchable now. My research thoughts were Monarchy to get Heridatary Rule, which will give us happy faces to allow more growth. We are going to have to do it sooner or later. However, Code of Laws for Caste System may be a better near term strategy.

I look forward to seeing what you decide. Good luck and have fun playing with those cats! :lol:

Roster:
Disruptive Idiot--Playing
Methos--On Deck
Rik Meleet
Conroe

I'm going to stick with hereditary rule so we can grab the two pop points we can't get because of happiness. After that I'm going to go for the great library because we have all the weapons of war we need for a while. After that let's go for macemen.

We have a big problem coming up however, we don't have horses! That means we'll be at a severe disadvantage when knights come around. However, we will make due!

Just to let you folks know, I will be unavailable during the Thanksgiving holiday. I will be available again on Sunday (Nov 27). Please skip me, if necessary.

:bump:
DisruptiveIdiot, you still here?

Our fearless leader has apparently gone AWOL. I saw in LK111 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3354685&postcount=24) where he said that something had come up. That was a week ago. I hope that he is OK. Not sure where we go from here? :confused:

His account information (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=33988) shows he was active less than two days ago (Sunday evening).

Sometimes, being a moderator helps a lot. DI: Last Activity: Nov 28, 2005 03:55 AM.

I say: Methos: take it. DI is skipped.

(We are patched to 1.09, I assume???)

Got it, though won't be able to play until tomorrow.

I'm patched to 1.09.

Kept building cats and moving them to the Aztec city. As each one got there I slowly brought it’s defense bonus down to +0%. During this time I had also been bringing troops over in preparation. Once the defense bonus was gone I sent the cats in for collateral damage. It was rather hilarious as the cats not only did collateral damage but also destroyed each archer they went up against. All those troops I sent over did nothing but watch the cats destroy the city themselves!

While the cats healed I sent several troops north towards the American city of Bantu (sp?). Several cats went there as well. On my last turn I managed to destroy that city too.

Currently Delphi is set at no growth. Once we get Hereditary Rule I suggest switching back to growth to get to max population.

We might want to stop building troops. I’m not for sure but we’re currently at -7 gpt and I’m wondering if its due to the amount of troops we have.

Here’s my turnlog:
Turn 115 (0 AD)
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: Combat I

Turn 116 (25 AD)
Swordsman defeats (3.66/6): Barbarian Archer
Delhi finishes: Catapult

Turn 117 (50 AD)
Delhi begins: Catapult
Swordsman loses to: Aztec Jaguar (1.00/5)

Turn 118 (75 AD)
Swordsman defeats (6.00/6): Aztec Jaguar
Axeman promoted: Cover
Axeman defeats (3.40/5): American Archer
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: City Raider II
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Delhi finishes: Catapult
Christianity founded in a distant land

Turn 119 (100 AD)
Delhi begins: Colosseum
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Swordsman promoted: Combat I
Swordsman promoted: Combat II
Swordsman promoted: City Raider II
Axeman defeats (2.65/5): American Spearman
Delhi begins: Catapult
Axeman loses to: American Catapult (5.00/5)

Turn 120 (125 AD)
Swordsman promoted: Combat II
Delhi finishes: Catapult

Turn 121 (150 AD)
Delhi begins: Catapult
Catapult promoted: Barrage I

Turn 122 (175 AD)
Delhi finishes: Catapult

Turn 123 (200 AD)
Delhi begins: Swordsman
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult defeats (0.60/5): Aztec Archer
Catapult defeats (4.00/5): Aztec Archer
Razed Tenochtitlan
Methos: The Aztecs are now destroyed!

Turn 124 (225 AD)
Delhi finishes: Swordsman

Turn 125 (250 AD)
Delhi begins: Swordsman
Swordsman promoted: Combat I
Swordsman defeats (0.12/6): American Archer
Swordsman defeats (5.22/6): American Archer
Razed Bantu

Here’ the 250 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_AD-0250.Civ4SavedGame).

Roster:
Disruptive Idiot- Skipped, as he's missing
Methos- Just Played
Rik Meleet- Up
Conroe

I got it

I'll try to play tonight. Thx for the PM, Methos.

Axeman promoted: Cover
Axeman defeats (3.40/5): American Archer
Axeman defeats (2.65/5): American Spearman
Axeman loses to: American Catapult (5.00/5)

I was really starting to like this little guy. Sorry to see we lost him. At least he went down fighting!!!

I was really starting to like this little guy. Sorry to see we lost him. At least he went down fighting!!!

Yeah, I thought about pulling him out of there due to his already low strength, probably should have. He definitely went down fighting.

I guess this is one of those learning experiences where you (read: I) learn not to engage the enemy when not at full strength.

IHT: Checking the economy. We are indeed paying unit-upkeep, but not a lot. I'm going to heal all units, unite all units and then strike at America further.

1 - 275 AD Swordman ready in Delhi. Starts Hanging Gardens. We are already paying for unit-upkeep and the extra health HG generates is welcome. The 1 pop extra is good as well and we aren't desperate for units right now. It's a gamble, but I think we can afford it.

2 - 300AD We spot an American galley with a settler and an archer off Washington. Not important.

3 - 325 AD Our cat finds Arabian units in the fog of the forest near former Azteca. There are many and many of our units are still healing. Pull back the units to counter this thread.

IBT: Our brave sword kills an axeman, then dies to a 2nd. More Arabian units appear.

4 - 350 AD The battle is hard, but we manage to throw back many Arabian units.

IBT: Monarchy comes in. Choose Feud as next tech. Adopt Hereditary rule.

5 - 375 AD Heal our units and prepare for the Arabian attacks.
IBT: no attacks.

6 - 400 AD Catts attack and do damage. Kill off Arabian swords for the loss of some of our swords.
IBT: an Arabia axe kills itself on one of our Axes.

7 - 425 AD Kill the last Visible Arabian. Regroup to heal. We are down to 4 swords, 2 catts, 1 archer and 1 axe; not counting defense units in and around Delhi. We need more -and better- units.

8 - 450 AD Aristotle; a great scientist, is born in Delhi. Construct an Academy with him. +4 culture +50% science is good; as our city is at 21 beakers per turn. Feudalism research drops from 38 to 25 turns.

10 - 500 AD Hanging Gardens build in Delhi. Starts on Axemen (enemy swords are very very irritating). Our empire has half a million souls. Dead souls soon, if we don't build more units. I see Arabian borders where Azteca used to be. Move in my SoD.

----

We can afford to build more units than I previously thought, we will get money from city-razes. So I suggest we go full speed onto unit-building.
Promotions: It is smart to promote as late as possible for 2 reasons. 1: you get to choose the promotion you really need. 2: promoting a unit heals it halfway. So it's preferable to have a unit damaged without promotion than with a promotion. It sure sounds strange, but it is true.
We need more medic units. That becomes available with Combat I. So if you have a choice; I advise Combat I for more units.

>> The Save << (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_AD-0500.Civ4SavedGame)

Got It! :bounce:

Kill the last Visible Arabian. Regroup to heal. We are down to 4 swords, 2 catts, 1 archer and 1 axe; not counting defense units in and around Delhi. We need more -and better- units.
Good job :thumbsup: on the Arabian front! I'll see what I can do about more units, better units may be a bit more difficult. :D

Lurkers Comment: Great idea for a game, guys! If anyone wants to try this at home I can recommend Saladin. Not only are his traits and starting techs perfect for OCC, but he also has a UU that requires no resources. It's not ancient era, though.

Hey everyone, just letting you all know that from December 4th until December 11th my wife and I will be taking a Carnival cruise in the Caribbean. I will not be able to play my turns during that timeframe. There is internet on the ship so I might check up on the games once or twice but nothing more.

Note: Please skip me as of this post and all days up until December 12th. Our returning flight lands around 10:30 pm on the 11th and we are not expecting to get home until 2 or 3 am on the 12th. So anytime from the 12th on I will be able to resume play. Thanks!

:wavey:

Situation Assessment: The year is 500AD. We are researching Feudalism, which is due in 23 turns. Our city is at population 10, and growth is stagnant. Health is 12=12 and happiness is 12>10. The city governor is currently off. We have 1 citizen specialist. Production is set to Axeman, due next turn. The treasury is 278 gold pieces at -2gpt.

Homeland defense consists of 4 archers. One archer is guarding our gold, while the other 3 are garrisoned at Delhi. Our 3 workers are doing various tile improvements, including 1 forest chop.

Our army is at the gates of the Arabian city of Kufah. It appears to be newly established on the rubble that was once Tenochitlan. Our army consists of 4 swordsmen, 1 axeman, 1 archer, and 2 catapults. One of the swordsman has a Woodsman II promotion, allowing for movement of 2 in the forest and jungle.

Objectives: I think Rik was correct when he said we need more units. More to the point, I think we need more armies. We currently have 1 army in the east. We need at least two more armies: a Northern army and a NE army.

Our other problem is city growth. Hereditary rule did wonders for the happiness problem, but the health issue remains. Our research is a pathetic 29 beakers; and that is after a +85% boost from our buildings. Our finances, however, are in order. At -2gpt, we have 139 turns before we run out of money.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI1_500AD_Opening.JPG

Turn 0 (500AD): Turn on city governor and set to emphasize research. This drops feudalism down to 17 turns from 23 turns. Axeman still due in 1 turn. Population growth will be in 8 turns. Change Research to Pottery, due in 2 turns.

Turn 1 (520AD): Delhi completes the axeman and starts training another. The axe just built is sent to join the Eastern Army.

We begin the assault on Kufah with a Shock-promoted, Combat II swordsman versus Saladin's Combat I swordsman. At odds of 7.2 to 4.8 it should have been an easy win. But, our swordsman barely survived. Kufah's only defense is a Combat I chariot, which is attacked by our Combat II Swordsman. The odds this time are a slightly improved 7.2 to 4.0, as we defeat the chariot and burn Kufah to the ground. At this point, our army consists of 2 units (out of 8) that have full health/strength. They are going to need some R&R before marching.

The razing of Kufah reveals that Saladin has a pair of Combat II axemen enroute to reinforce Kufah. Wondering what else lies in the fog, I decide to use our Woodsman II swordsman to do some scouting. Holy Criminy, Batman!! :eek: I think this game may be over soon. Sal is sending army consisting of a swordsman, two axemen, a chariot, and a spearman. One of the axemen has a Shock promotion.

IBT: A Japanese warrior and archer appear out of the fog NE of what was Kufah. Sal's army appears to be marching to Delhi.

Turn 2 (540AD): Pottery is learned and we return to research Feudalism, due in 17 turns. The axeman destined to join the Eastern Army is reassigned to the defense of Delhi. Our archer defending the gold is ordered north to assist the axeman. Our Eastern Army continues to heal.

IBT: Well, Sal's Army is definitely Delhi bound. Our corn is pillaged

Turn 3 (560AD): Another Axeman is constructed for the defense of Delhi. The two Axemen are promoted to Combat I. They will be defending from a forest giving them +50% defense bonus. Not sure if Sal will attack them or just flank them to Delhi. The archer, which had been guarding the gold, is now there and is promoted to Combat I with Shock. I queue up a catapult, which will be done next turn (complements of a forest chop).

IBT: Wow, what a fight! Sal brings his Shock-promoted axeman up first. At 5.5 to our 6.75, our axeman successfully defends the forest. Next, Sal brings up a Combat I swordsman. It was a suicide mission (7.2 to 10.5) against our Axeman. Finally, Sal brings up his chariot against our Shock-promoted Archer. Oh, this was such a smart move, even though the odds of 4.4 vs 4.8 were still on our favor. His chariot retreats before the death blow would have been dealt.

Unfortunately, Sal has even more troops. Another chariot and spearman appear out of the fog.

Turn 4 (580AD): The catapult completes. I queue up a spearman to counter the chariots that Saladin is throwing at us. By turning off the city governor, the spearman will be ready next turn.

Our forces are in bad shape. I don't see how they will survive another assault without some rest. So, I pull back off of the forest to defend the iron tile. This buys our troops one turn of healing in exchange for the loss of the forest defense bonus. At this point I'm thinking, this may be the critical mistake that costs us the game. The two axemen are given Shock promotions, while the new catapult is given a Drill promotion (we may need that first strike).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI1_580AD_Retreat.JPG

Meanwhile, our Eastern Army is 3/4ths healed (all but 2 swords). I leave the two swords to finish healing and send the rest of the army after Saladin's Army.

IBT: Our old buddy, George, founds Chicago near where Bantu was located. It is being defended by a Spearman and an Elephant. Meanwhile, a Malinese Axeman is spotted.

Sal, on the other hand, did as expected and moved his forces forward into the void I had left.

Turn 5 (600AD): Our spearman is trained. Another axeman is queued up and the city governor is turned back on. I turn off emphasize research and set for no growth. Once the corn gets hooked back up, we can build a granary and grow to population 12 quite easily.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI1_600AD_StillAlive.JPG

I then send our Woodsman II swordsman (erroneously labeled Eastern Army in the above picture) to clear away the fog of war and see what else may be coming our way. Unfortunately, I did not realize that C4 had an "Auto-Attack" feature.:eek: Our swordsman attacked one of Sal's axemen in the jungle. If I had been asked whether I wanted our 6.0 swordsman to attack Sal's 10.5 axeman, I most likely would have declined! :rolleyes: Needless to say, this unit has given us his last intel report.

IBT: Sal does not attack? Interesting. He does, however, consolidate his forces on one of our forests. I believe he wants to do some pillaging.

Remember the two swords that weren't quite healed? The ones that I left behind in a forest? Well, Saladin has sent 2 horse archers after them. And, not to be left out, Tokugawa has sent an archer and a warrior.

Turn 6 (620AD): With Sal's forces in the forest as they are, it would be suicide to attack him. And I'm pretty sure he wants to pillage our mine on the hilltop. It may be possible to set a trap using our iron as bait. He would definitely pillage the iron, and we may have to go without for a turn or two, but it may be worth the risk to get his forces on flat land. I move our forces onto the hilltop. This leaves our iron undefended. My guess is he will go for it, leaving the forest bonus behind.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI1_620AD_SetTrap.JPG

Alrighty then, our wounded swordsmen have two choices. Run like dogs, or attack. I am pretty confidant that they could take out the Japanese forces, but they would be guaranteed a death from Sal's horse archers. Personally, I don't think trading swordsmen for warriors and archers is a good deal. They run!

Meanwhile, the rest of the Eastern Army is one turn away from attacking Chicago. However, a Mali axeman stands ready to defend George's latest villa. I wonder if George appreciates the sacrifice that Mansu Musa is making? Our axeman attacks in a 6 to 5 skirmish that is easily won. Next turn, Chicago!

IBT: Sal does as expected, and pillages our iron.

Turn 7 (640AD): Delhi trains a new axeman. Since iron is no longer available, a catapult is queued up. But, now to see about taking back our iron. First off, our one available catapult suicides against the stack causing collateral damage. Unfortunately, not nearly enough as I would have hoped. Next, our wounded axe defeats one of their wounded chariots in a 5.2 to 3.4 matchup. Then another wounded axe easily takes down one of Sal's Axemen in a 5.0 to 3.2 battle. Now, in a 4.4 to 3.9 matchup, our 100% healthy spearman dies against Sal's wounded spearman. This one kind of surprises me. Now, I really wanted to save our last 100% healthy axeman for a melee unit, but I am forced to take him against a half-strength chariot. Well, our axe barely defeated the chariot in what should have been a 5.0 to 2.9 cake walk.

Well, after it is all said and done, Saladin still controls our iron with two wounded spearman.

Meanwhile, up in the "Windy City", an elephant is a formidable force. I suicide one of the two cats against the elephant. Not sure how effective it was, though. Oh, how I wish I had a suicide spear! I decide to gamble with the RNG and use our Shock-promoted swordsman to attack the elephant. The odds were 6.6 to 6.2 in our favor, but our sword did not stand a chance. Before dying, our sword did manage to rip both tusks off of the elephant. Our axeman easily obliterates the defending spearman, while our in-need-of-a-promotion catapult decimates what was left of the elephant.

Now, in the end, Chicago may have been burned to the ground, but the Eastern Army is no more. All that remains is a cat, an axe, and a bow.

IBT: Sal's spears take off running in two different directions, thus freeing up our iron. Meanwhile, his horse archers are approaching from the east.

Turn 8 (660AD): We easily take out one of Sal's fleeing spearmen (5.2 vs 2.4). The rest of our forces are set to heal. Task the 3 workers to reconnecting the iron. Unfortunately, I don't think it is going to be done in time to build a spear before the horse archers arrive.

IBT: The horse archers turn and head for the gold mine. Pillaging the gold will delay their arrival in Delhi.

Turn 9 (680AD): The catapult is built and another is queued up. With the overflow, it will be done next turn. In the meantime, one of our swords gets to finish off the last fleeing spearman.

The only forces still threatening Delhi are the two horse archers to the SE. Unfortunately, I do not have any forces that will get there in time to prevent the pillaging of the gold mine.

IBT: Not sure what happened. Without pillaging anything, Sal's horse archers retreated. However, two more horse archers appeared out of the fog from the NE. From the SE, a barbarian swordsman emerged, as well as an American scout.

Turn 10 (700AD): Catapult built, begin training a spearman. Pulled back some of our forces still needing to be healed. Moved forward our currently healed defense forces: 2 cats and an axe. Unfortunately, the horse archers are out of reach. Maybe next turn...

Not sure who is going to follow me, DI or Methos. Or are Rik and I the only ones left playing? Unfortunately, whoever inherits this turn will find our forces in a bit of a disarray. They are all in and around Delhi. Our 3 workers are hiding inside the city; they have movement left if anyone is brave enough to let them out.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI1_700AD_Update.JPG

I've been micromanaging the governor trying to squeeze out any extra commerce towards our Feudalism research. You'll need to watch it, or we will end up taking 3 turns to build units instead of 2 turns. Speaking of which, after we switch to vassalage, we may want to research literature. The Heroic Epic would be looking pretty good right about now! That assumes that we live long enough to actually build it.

Reading back over this, I am struck by the fact that I did not achieve either of my objectives: to build another army and to grow the city. This, of course, is due to the fact that I spent the entire turn set on the defensive. Militarily, we lost 5 to their 13 units; although one of our loses was, from my perspective, a game bug. Economically and geographically, we are in the exact same position as when I started this set.

>> the save << (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_AD-0700.Civ4SavedGame)

Not sure who is going to follow me, DI or Methos. Or are Rik and I the only ones left playing?

I'm not sure about DI, since we haven't heard from him in a while. It may be just you and Rik until I get back.

I'm currently at a relatives house getting ready to head to the airport, so no civ disk here. I think my wife would be rather urked if I would have tried to bring civ along with us. Ha!

If DI doesn't show up it looks like its just you two. You two could play or just wait for me to get back. Totally up to you guys. See you in a week.

Hope you have fun on your trip, Methos!
:beer: :dance: [party]


If DI doesn't show up it looks like its just you two. You two could play or just wait for me to get back. Totally up to you guys.I'm in no big hurry, myself. I think we should give DI at least a day or two to see if he shows up before making any decisions.

I agree, take your time.

BTW: DI's Last Activity: Dec 02, 2005 02:12 AMl; (about 48 hours ago).

Wow, jumped online to see how the games were going and find this one has sort of died. I wonder what happened to DI?

See ya all on the 12th.

Wow, jumped online to see how the games were going and find this one has sort of died. I wonder what happened to DI?

See ya all on the 12th.


No, the game's not dead, yet. But we will be soon!:eek: Rik spent a good portion of his set fighting off an Arabic assault. Then, we had a couple turns of peace before I spent most of my turns fighting off more Arabs. We are clearly on the defensive at the moment. I think it is probably just a matter of time.

As for DI, I think it is just odd that he would abandon a game that he started. He has clearly been online on multiple occassions and hasn't bothered to check in. I am assuming that he does not intend to rejoin us. Unless Rik wants to take it, we will probably just wait until you get back.

Happy Sailing!

I'll send DI (who had his Last Activity: Dec 06, 2005 09:52 PM ) a PM.

:bump:
Well, Methos is back one day and he has already turned LK108 into a victory (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3441755&postcount=298). Can he do it again? :D :goodjob: :D :D

I knew there was at least one game I forgot to mention I was back in. So, I'm back.

LK108 felt good. Nice to come back and win a game.:D

Okay, got this one. I'll play tomorrow.

Turn 115 (0 AD)
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: Combat I

Turn 116 (25 AD)
Swordsman defeats (3.66/6): Barbarian Archer
Delhi finishes: Catapult

Turn 117 (50 AD)
Delhi begins: Catapult
Swordsman loses to: Aztec Jaguar (1.00/5)

Turn 118 (75 AD)
Swordsman defeats (6.00/6): Aztec Jaguar
Axeman promoted: Cover
Axeman defeats (3.40/5): American Archer
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: City Raider II
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Delhi finishes: Catapult
Christianity founded in a distant land

Turn 119 (100 AD)
Delhi begins: Colosseum
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Swordsman promoted: Combat I
Swordsman promoted: Combat II
Swordsman promoted: City Raider II
Axeman defeats (2.65/5): American Spearman
Delhi begins: Catapult
Axeman loses to: American Catapult (5.00/5)

Turn 120 (125 AD)
Swordsman promoted: Combat II
Delhi finishes: Catapult

Turn 121 (150 AD)
Delhi begins: Catapult
Catapult promoted: Barrage I

Turn 122 (175 AD)
Delhi finishes: Catapult

Turn 123 (200 AD)
Delhi begins: Swordsman
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult defeats (0.60/5): Aztec Archer
Catapult defeats (4.00/5): Aztec Archer
Razed Tenochtitlan
Methos: The Aztecs are now destroyed!

Turn 124 (225 AD)
Delhi finishes: Swordsman

Turn 125 (250 AD)
Delhi begins: Swordsman
Swordsman promoted: Combat I
Swordsman defeats (0.12/6): American Archer
Swordsman defeats (5.22/6): American Archer
Razed Bantu
----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 145 (700 AD)
Methos: Not even sure where to begin. Figure I'll wait and see what our enemies do during the IBT.
Axeman defeats (0.25/5): Arabian Horse Archer
Catapult loses to: Arabian Horse Archer (1.80/6)

Turn 146 (720 AD)
Methos: That sucked! The small force east of Delhi just got hammered so bad I have to pull it back within the city walls for fear of losing it entirely.
Axeman promoted: Combat III
Delhi finishes: Spearman

Turn 147 (740 AD)
Delhi begins: Catapult
Methos: Since we have healthy units near Delhi I can only sit and watch as our Iron is pillaged.
Methos: Due to trying times I turn off research emphasis and turn on production emphasis. I'm hoping with a few more cats we can kick the enemy out of our city radius.
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult defeats (2.15/5): Arabian Horse Archer
Methos: Wow! Our cat took the horse archer out rather than just weaken him.
Methos: Saladin has sent another horse archer and swordsman, while Napolean sends us an axe and spear. Looks like we're digging in.
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Axeman promoted: Combat II
Spearman promoted: Combat I
Methos: I move several units over the Iron and send our three workers there to reconnect it. Between a couple axes, a cat, a spear, and an archer it should be okay, hopefully.
Methos: I turn emphasize research back on but also leave emphasize production on. We need units bad or we're going to get overrun.

Turn 148 (760 AD)
Catapult promoted: Barrage II
Methos: Currently there are 3 horse archers, 4 swordsmen, 3 axemen, 1 chariot, and 1 spear in our territory.
Delhi finishes: Catapult
Spearman loses to: Arabian Horse Archer (2.22/6)
Axeman loses to: Arabian Horse Archer (4.86/6)
Axeman loses to: Arabian Horse Archer (2.58/6)
Swordsman defeats (4.86/6): Arabian Axeman
Swordsman loses to: Arabian Swordsman (1.44/6)
Axeman defeats (2.45/5): Arabian Chariot
Axeman loses to: Arabian Swordsman (5.04/6)

Turn 149 (780 AD)
Delhi begins: Swordsman
Methos: Holy crap! We just had a large part of our military get toasted!
Methos: Okay, I'm stopping right here as I'm at a loss on how to continue. Definitely need to discuss.

Okay, everything went downhill fast. Saladin continues to throw troops our way and we can’t heal fast enough to deal with them. Napoleon has also started sending troops as well as one other AI. I only played four turns but we need to figure out if there is a way to get ourselves out of this hole. That last IBT we lost a large part of our force that I thought was strong enough to defend itself. In truth I figured the AI’s would ignore the force and pillage all the undefended tiles. Wasn’t expecting a route.

It would be nice if you both could download the save so we can discuss our options.

Here’s the 780 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI-1_AD-0780.Civ4SavedGame).

It would be nice if you both could download the save so we can discuss our options.
There was a scene in one of the Indiana Jones movies where a bad guy with a sword is threatening Harrison Ford. Ford pulls out his revolver and shoots the guy and then says the classic line about bringing a knife to a gun fight. For some reason, that scene comes to my mind as I look at this screenshot. Unfortunately, we're not Harrison Ford!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DI1_780AD_Update.JPG

As bleek as it looks, I'm struck by the fact that it could be a lot worse. First off, they didn't bring any catapults (at least, yet). Secondly, of the six units that Saladin has in our territory, only one swordsman is at full strength. On the down side, Napoleon has four healthy melee units in position and ready to fight.

I think the three units north of the city need to be brought back to defend Delhi and the iron. These are the only two tiles that we are concerned about, at the moment. The Medic Archer will do us the most good at the iron mine, I think. Next, I think we should do a kamakazii run with out wounded cat. With Barrage II, he will do +50% collateral damage. The most pressing need is Napoleon's Axe & Spear (1S) threatening Delhi. Unfortunately, Napoleon has positioned those two on a hill. Since out cat is wounded, I think we might get more bang for our buck by attacking the combined stacks of Napoleon and Saladin (1E). By doing that, only 2 of the 10 enemy units in our territory will be at full strength. Delhi has a garrison of 4, so it will survive those 2 units, even if Saladin commits his wounded horses. Personally, I think he will commit them. The AI doesn't seem to send wounded units home the way it did in CivIII.

Production wise, I notice we have a swordsman in the queue. I think we should be building nothing but Axe's and Spear's. The Axeman has a built in +50% advantage against melee units and is almost unstoppable once he gets a Shock promotion. The spearman, with their +100% against mounted units, will crush these Horse Archers.

Unfortunately, I don't think any of this will matter in the long run. Saladin just keeps throwing more and more troops at us. His cities are obviously in full out war machine mode. And now, Napoleon is getting in on the act. Before long, Washington is going to show up and he's got War Elephants! Which means, he will also have catapults.

Honestly folks, I think this game is lost, we just don't know what year it will finally happen. We sealed our fate when we set our research goals on catapults and vassalage. We should have made a beeline for bureaucracy and followed it up with a forge. We'd be churning out an Axeman each and every turn right now if we had that extra +75% production boost!

Your thoughts?

Interesting that you brought up the Harrison Ford clip. Out of curiosity have you ever seen a behind the scenes of that segment? Ford was supposed to fight him with a blade but was suffering from 'the runs'. Needing to go the bathroom he pulled the gun to end the scene. Apparently the director liked it so went that route instead. :lol:

Back to the game...

The swordsman in the que has no shields invested so it can be switched with no loss. I agree on pulling everything back and focusing on only Delhi and the iron. The units to the north have been slowly working their way back south for defense. They just haven't made it yet.

I am also wondering if this game is a loss. I'd like to continue playing to see if we can regain the initiative.

Interesting that you brought up the Harrison Ford clip. Out of curiosity have you ever seen a behind the scenes of that segment? Ford was supposed to fight him with a blade but was suffering from 'the runs'. Needing to go the bathroom he pulled the gun to end the scene. Apparently the director liked it so went that route instead. :lol:

Too funny! :rotfl:
I had not heard that anecdote before. Thanks for sharing it!

I am also wondering if this game is a loss. I'd like to continue playing to see if we can regain the initiative.

Oh, most definitely! I am by no means advocating throwing the towel. What I know about Civ4 combat I have learned playing losing SP games.

I see our biggest handicap as the fact that we know the wrong techs. I'm not sure that Vassalage will solve our immediate problems. It might, in that our units will start with 2 promotions. An Axeman immediately promoted to Shock will be quite powerful; and our Spearmen will be only one promotion from Formation, which they will need to fight George's War Elephants.

What we badly need is Civil Service for the Bureaucracy civic. Unfortunately, it was over 30+ turns IIRC at all out max research. Since we would have to sacrifice production, I don't really think it is doable at the moment. Now, Metal Casting, to pick up a Forge, is a bit closer. But, with Feudalism being 2/3rd (or was it 3/4th) complete, would it be better to finish it first? I'm not really sure, myself.

We need techs and units. If the AI would give us a breather, we might be able to get both accomplished. I'm not sure that they will, though.:sad:

Don't count on the AI giving us breathing room. They'll eat us up alive. First killing our units outside the city; then pillage us to the stoneage and then beat us like a dog.

Should be fun ! :)

BTW: I'm away for the weekend. Can be nearly a week till I am available for playing.

:bump:

Since Rik is gone for the weekend and may not be back for a week do you, Conroe, want to go ahead and take it? Or should we wait for Rik to get back?

Honestly, I'm pretty flexible. It doesn't really matter to me. However, did you want to finish your turnset first? I think you only played about 3 or 4 turns before stopping for comments.

Whoops, this one slipped my mind. Will try and finish tonight.

Interesting. For some reason I had deleted the save game from my computer. Oh well, just downloaded it from my earlier post.

Things aren't looking very good. In truth I almost played the game out just to die, but am hoping someone else can bring us back.

Turn 149 (780 AD)
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Delhi begins: Axeman
Archer loses to: Arabian Swordsman (2.64/6)
Axeman loses to: Arabian Horse Archer (4.08/6)
Catapult defeats (0.85/5): Arabian Swordsman
Catapult loses to: Arabian Horse Archer (4.86/6)
Archer defeats (2.10/3): French Axeman

Turn 150 (800 AD)
Methos: We've lost our iron, again.
Methos: Napolean actually attacked Delhi. That's odd. Usually I've found the AI to pillage every tile before attacking the city.
Methos: Tokugawa has decided to shop up for the party. One of his archers has appeared.
Catapult promoted: Barrage III
Archer loses to: French Swordsman (1.86/6)

Turn 151 (820 AD)
Delhi begins: Catapult
Methos: According to Tacitus we are the wealthiest civ in the world.
Methos: What do you know, Washington has decided to join in as well.
Swordsman loses to: Arabian Horse Archer (3.12/6)
Methos: That didn't go well. Figured I could take out one of the small forces near our city and would up getting routed. Things are getting worse.
Archer defeats (3.00/3): French Axeman

Turn 152 (840 AD)
Archer promoted: City Garrison III
Methos: This games over, but I might as well go out swinging.
Delhi finishes: Catapult
Archer defeats (2.61/3): French Spearman

Turn 153 (860 AD)
Delhi begins: Archer
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult defeats (1.85/5): French Axeman
Catapult defeats (1.85/5): Frenc