Isramod - Build 0.1

**UPDATE Nov. 14/05**

Changes in Build 0.1
- none

Civilization
Name: Israel
Techs: Mysticism, Wheel
Leaders: David
Unique Unit: currently using warcharriot - subject to change
Flag/Button: Official Menorah Emblem

Leaders
David (Spiritual, Philosophical)
(currently using Xerxes leaderhead from greekworld mod)

Unique Unit
none atm (currently using warcharriot)

General Notes
This is an initial build I'm putting out since it was requested that I release the flag and the button - it's not finished yet. I'm not a very good graphic artist so I definitely could use some help in this area. I'm currently working on audio for the select and order sounds and will look into the UU after that which will initially based on availabilty of reskined units.

The city list is based on the ancient kingdom of Israel.

The first free tech was an easy choice - Mysticism obviously which also leads to masonry and the religious techs. The second tech I'm not sure yet. As of now I've chosen wheel - but maybe hunting is a better fit since all our early patriarchs were shepherds ;). Let me know what you think.

I'm using a new type of blue for the Israeli civ which I've compared and tested against all other blue civs in game.

Install:
Unzip into the mod directory


Notes on this thread

1) Keep politics out of this thread.
2) For me there is no difference between the old and new Israel in terms of civilization and people. This is the history of my people. If you disgree I could care less and I will not even discuss it. The only exception where I will change this mod is for settings and maps that specificly play in a specific timeframe.

--

Todah rabah!

Todah ach sheli, ma kacha?
Are you israeli, btw, or like, an armchair israeli somewhere far abroad ? :P

If I may suggest an alternative leader by the name of Solomon (a more warlike alternative) ?
You know the story.. where he had a huge armada of warships and all that stuff..


*sits and waits for the 'hapoel imperia civ' mod..*

Todah ach sheli, ma kacha?
Are you israeli, btw, or like, an armchair israeli somewhere far abroad ? :P

If I may suggest an alternative leader by the name of Solomon (a more warlike alternative) ?
You know the story.. where he had a huge armada of warships and all that stuff..


*sits and waits for the 'hapoel imperia civ' mod..*

Haha, armchair Israeli. That's a new expression :). I'm Israeli yes but you guessed it right I'm currently living chuz laaretz because of my job which makes me moving arround a lot.

I'm planing to add Shlomo and maybe even Chizqiyah. For modern leaders probably Ben Gurion for a start. But everything at its time - I'm really bad at graphics so I'm kinda reliant on what is out there. Although I managed to do the flag and button which turned out just fine.

Call me a bad israeli, but I always liked 'solomon' better than 'shlomo' :)

'shlomo' is like, the guy that sells surplus apples out of a van by the market.

hehe i like that term "armchair israeli" its been 18 years since i was in israel in yeshiva wow so long .. i work to hard but next time im on vacation i think solomon or david is most appropiate as leader david for expanding the boundaries and solomon for building gods big holy house
david possible traits expansive/philisophical he did write the psalms after all

and solomon creative and maybe organized?

what do you think

Ach! Somebody beat me to it! Doggone it!

Good job btw. I'll be checking this out and comparing notes.

I'm surrely NOT an expert in history, but if i think solomon, i think solomons mines => money => financial
but there is also the possibility that i'm completely wrong :)

I think your unique unit would be cool as THE missionary with maybe extra speed but definitely when used to spread your religion in a foreign town either gives you a bonus of culture, money, or great person points towards a Prophet - or all depending on how slanted you want to make your UU.

Being the most limited individual on CFC with programming knowledge, I am not sure if that is in the realm of possibility, but it would definitely take a different spin on the Missionary (not unlike the Fast Worker).

The unit also never becomes obsolete.

The only catch is that you could simply switch religions and cash in on this missionary on technically all 7 religions. Is there a way to set a flag so that only STATE religion missionaries are your Unique Unit? Can still be mildly exploited with a switch to different religions, but might end up not being worth the trouble in the long run.

whats the sense in giving the israelis a missionary?

I think there would have to be a better UU than a missionary. Looking forward to seeing this mod finished.

Looking forward to that mod - very cool idea.

If I may suggest, I would probably give Israel two leaders - David and Salomon, making David Spiritual and Aggressive (or Expansive) (he was more of a warmonger than a philosopher) and Salomon Organized (law-maker) and Philosophical (philosopher-King). David should probably favour Theocracy, and Salomon Hereditary Monarchy.

As for the UU, I don't think Missionary is such a good idea, considering that of all religions available in Civ 4, Judaism is exactly the one that is not missionary. Instead, I would suggest a Slinger (replacing archer, with a bonus against infantry) or maybe a Machabee (sp?).

Can anyone think of a good way to add the idea of kibbutzim (is that the correct noun?) to the game?

Since civ 3 I have often thought this would be a useful unit, could build a town and instantly provide somekind of defensive and cultural bonus.. (if i recall, this was the idea of a kibbutz, to send communities out to build towns whilst using communal living to free up people for military and building work.

Perhaps a modified settler with large build time that once activated (set to build) would provide a basic unit (do we still have "conscript" level in civ4) and possibly a slight extension to the default culture (not fully developed but some increased culture, or at least a food bonus in the early stages?

I have played with one Israeli mod (civ 3) that didnt have this, but do not have the nouse or time to do this myslef (okay, im a lazy b*gger).

Also, does anyone else think this would be a good special unit? Sorry to ask other about this, but you folks seem t understand the history of this nation better than myself and also understand the whole modding thing better.

I think this unit would be too overpowered, personally.

That was my thought, hence the high cost suggestion. (same cost as unit and settler, the cultural advantage being the uu "bonus") To an outsider though they are the one thing that smack of israel. totally unique to that country and vital in a time of war.. I will go have a joint and reconsider the options for such a unit

I'm surrely NOT an expert in history, but if i think solomon, i think solomons mines => money => financial
but there is also the possibility that i'm completely wrong :)

Funny that. I think of Solomon's Keys. But I'm weird. And not Israeli

That said, I'll be playing this :goodjob:

I would give Isreal the same UU as America. A super spy would be better, but I am not sure that is possible.

Also, I am not trying to be political or funny, it honestly just makes more sense to me than a War Charriot or Missionary.

Hmmm, I like the slinger idea. Not sure if it should replace the archer though. But there isn't much choice in the ancient area.

http://www.bible-history.com/sketches/assyria/assyrian-slinger.jpg

:goodjob: I think this is great.
David would be a better leaderhead, he was after all, a warrior king.
David established the largest state of Israel over any other time period.
He did this to give his son Solomon a peaceful country. It was also to
secure the forest and other natural resources for the building of the
Temple. Solomons name is actually a derivative of Shalom, peace. '
Yo! David........:king: :crazyeye:

Popular ideas have been Maccabee or Mossad. I'd go with the former, considering not everyone uses spies.

I think your unique unit would be cool as THE missionary with maybe extra speed but definitely when used to spread your religion in a foreign town either gives you a bonus of culture, money, or great person points towards a Prophet - or all depending on how slanted you want to make your UU.

Being the most limited individual on CFC with programming knowledge, I am not sure if that is in the realm of possibility, but it would definitely take a different spin on the Missionary (not unlike the Fast Worker).

The unit also never becomes obsolete.

The only catch is that you could simply switch religions and cash in on this missionary on technically all 7 religions. Is there a way to set a flag so that only STATE religion missionaries are your Unique Unit? Can still be mildly exploited with a switch to different religions, but might end up not being worth the trouble in the long run.

Judaism is one of the few "big" religions that didn't actively spread their religion. Hence the low numbers...

Popular ideas have been Maccabee or Mossad. I'd go with the former, considering not everyone uses spies.
Personally I don't like either. Maccabee was just a name given to rebels - they didn't use any special tactics, besides it would suck to have a special unit that only comes to the fore when your civilization is conquered. ;)

As for Mossad, I am against special UUs as they are much less useful than normal unit UUs.

Slinger could imo be an archer with an extra first strike.

Also, I have thought about leader traits and I think you could have David and Salomon represent two aspects of Israeli civilization.

David - Aggressive and Spiritual - being the early biblical Israel of fanatical religiousness and numerous conquests.

Salomon - Philiosophical and Organized - would be a later Israel (including the diaspora) of both a disproportionate number of great people and a strong legal tradition of Torah (not to mention Salomon was a lawmaker).

Maccabee was just a name given to rebels - they didn't use any special tactics

Actually, Maccabee is the name of a family resp. the Hasmonaim.

I remember one game where the AI built dozens of Elephants and I had a hard time competing since I had no ivory and I couldn't produce spearmen fast enough. So here is an idea for a Maccabee spearman, slightly cheaper than the normal one which would get an additional bonus against war elephants ;) and city defense. I still like the slinger idea better though since it was a unit that was really used in the region. Mainly for defense purposes so it would be a nice replacement for the archer. But problem is graphics since you can't make any new models yet, just reskin the existing models. So maybe until the SDK is released we could go for the Maccabee and later switch for the slinger.

"Eleazar saw that one of the beast was equipped with royal armor. It was taller than all the others, and he supposed that the king was upon it. So he gave his life to save his people and to win for himself an everlasting name. He courageously ran into the midst of the phalanx to reach it; He killed men right and left, and they parted before him on both sides. He got under the elephant, stabbed it from beneath, and killed it; But it fell to the ground upon him and there he died" (1 Maccabees 6:43-46) Eleazar the Horani, one of the leaders of the Maccabian revolt against the Roman, was the son of Mattitiahu the Hashmonai and the brother of Judah the Maccabi. In the year 163 b.c.e., near beit Zechariah, was a fight against the Syrian forces of Anthiocus which were nearing Jerusalem."

Hmm, what about the Merkava tank? Simply it replaces modern armor, but it can fortify (Dig in) itself and may recieve defensive upgrades. Also, I like the idea of the slingers, maybe that even suites better.

There's nothing much 'israeli' about slingers other than that quaint david and goliath story.. merkava tank is much more 'israeli'.

But the most israeli thing of all is definitely the Uzi submachine gun :)

Thanks alot for this mods, i can finally kick Sharon's ass :lol: I wish someone do Iran and Irak too... Just wanted to save Iraki people from american invasion and support Iran in their nuclear program against Israel and the united state... :lol:

Thanks alot for this mods, i can finally kick Sharon's ass :lol: I wish someone do Iran and Irak too... Just wanted to save Iraki people from american invasion and support Iran in their nuclear program against Israel and the united state... :lol:
Technically Persia is Iran.
Your post is just a little terrifying -- just a little.

Also, I have thought about leader traits and I think you could have David and Salomon represent two aspects of Israeli civilization.

David - Aggressive and Spiritual - being the early biblical Israel of fanatical religiousness and numerous conquests.

Salomon - Philiosophical and Organized - would be a later Israel (including the diaspora) of both a disproportionate number of great people and a strong legal tradition of Torah (not to mention Salomon was a lawmaker).

I was going to suggest something along these lines, although actually I would recommend David as you put him, but Solomon I would think should be philosophical and industrious. This is because during his reign the united kingdom had a huge number of building projects so it fits better than Organized. Solomon may have been wise enough to be organized but I wouldn't have considered that his primary trait, more just a secondary offshoot.

RH

for balanced gameplay reason, it should be better not to give any leader philosophical and industrious...too much GPP

אני אוהב אותך!!!!!!!!!!!! מלך!!!!!!

you thought about add king solomon?
special unit - Chashmonee insted of warrior?

A Warrior wont last long I am afraid, maybe a pumped version of the axe man that doesnt require Iron, Copper or such!

for balanced gameplay reason, it should be better not to give any leader philosophical and industrious...too much GPP

ghandi of india is philisophical/industrious

ghandi of india is philisophical/industrious

I thought he was spiritual/industrious

David would probably be a better choice as the kingdom split in half because of Solomon's mistakes.

Heh, why not Saul?

I thought he was spiritual/industrious
That's correct.

David would probably be a better choice as the kingdom split in half because of Solomon's mistakes.

Heh, why not Saul?

Actually , the Hebrew empire split up after his death. Just like Macedonia splitted up when Alexanders father died.

dont complicate

david and golda meir

make special unit interesting and offering something different. there are unique archers and unique tanks already. and a myriad of uniqe musketmen, riflemen and infantry. The idea with the spy, Mossad, is interesting. It would provide new tactics if this spy had a unique capability.

Shalom all!
As far as I can see, our tiny country has a decent representation here!

BTW, speaking of the leaders, why not Bibi? After all, he's gonna be the next PM :lol:

I would advise changing the special unit Merkava (the best tank today) or Mosad. Until then, change the special unit to something else, since in those days, Israel wasnt allowed to use chariots

Shalom all!
As far as I can see, our tiny country has a decent representation here!

BTW, speaking of the leaders, why not Bibi? After all, he's gonna be the next PM :lol:

Im afraid to say that it will probably not be Bibi but Peretz:(
I think country leaders should be Ben Gurion and King David

I think country leaders should be Ben Gurion and King David

I agree.

David should be Spiritual and Aggressive, while Ben-G should be Philosophical and Industrious. The Unique Unit should be the Machine Gun with the Commando and promotion and a defensive bonus.

Im afraid to say that it will probably not be Bibi but Peretz:(
I think country leaders should be Ben Gurion and King David

I'm just joking (ironically, Peretz as a PM would be the biggest joke ever, but no politics, right? :p )

I agree about Ben-Gurion, he definitely deserves mentioning :)

ok i dont wanna start anything here but why doesnt Sid do a jewish civ??? i mean they've been around longer and have had a big impact on the world. i was really wanting to play Israel

ok i dont wanna start anything here but why doesnt Sid do a jewish civ??? i mean they've been around longer and have had a big impact on the world. i was really wanting to play Israel

well, you're in luck.. you can play Israel simply by installing the mod for which this thread was made

If you think realisticaly Israel is and has been successful in war due to high quality manpower and (lets be frank) subversiveness.
I think a Mossad UU is appropriate, maybe give it more strength or stealth.
All other UUs would just mean brute-force, which would be historically inaccurate.

I also really liked the kibbutzim idea, would it be possible to mod in a new tile improvement, maybe a farm-on-steroids or something?

Leaders should definetly be Solomon (philosophical - he did after all write Song of songs and Kohelet and maybe financial) and Ben-Gurion (creater of modern Israel, spiritual and industriuos).

Kibbutzim is a good idea- it should replace the regular village/hamlet etc...
A kibbutz should produce less gold than a regular village, but should also produce food.

ok i dont wanna start anything here but why doesnt Sid do a jewish civ??? i mean they've been around longer and have had a big impact on the world. i was really wanting to play Israel


I agree. Israel is one of the strongest nations today and definetaly was strong in earlier times. This mod isnt good enough since I also like other mods.

I agree. Israel is one of the strongest nations today and definetaly was strong in earlier times. This mod isnt good enough since I also like other mods.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141855

thanks zhao...

actually what i meant was i liked mods that change gameplay itself.

Thanks alot for this mods, i can finally kick Sharon's ass :lol: I wish someone do Iran and Irak too... Just wanted to save Iraki people from american invasion and support Iran in their nuclear program against Israel and the united state... :lol:

I like this mod too, I just found a new worst enemy!!! :D
Next game I start: Play as america and destroy israel..... :nuke:

Yeah i know i can install the mod and everything, but to have Israel as one of the featured civs in the game created by Sid's people, is what I'm talking about.
Why wont he do that?

I like this mod too, I just found a new worst enemy!!! :D
Next game I start: Play as america and destroy israel..... :nuke:

Yea,right...
America is the only country that sees the truth- that Israel is right. I wonder how you would feel if your best friend would die because a suicide bomber came into a restaurant and decided that he must kill little children. If you think the Palestinians suffer because of Israel, y dont you check out the truth: Israel gave them billions of dollars, and Mr Arafat took this money to build another room in his 50th cottage in southern France. Now that this bastard is dead, the new chairman is too stupid to control them.
This is not a political forum so I will stop right here.

Yea,right...
America is the only country that sees the truth- that Israel is right. I wonder how you would feel if your best friend would die because a suicide bomber came into a restaurant and decided that he must kill little children. If you think the Palestinians suffer because of Israel, y dont you check out the truth: Israel gave them billions of dollars, and Mr Arafat took this money to build another room in his 50th cottage in southern France. Now that this bastard is dead, the new chairman is too stupid to control them.
This is not a political forum so I will stop right here.

You're right, this whole topic angers up my blood :mad: so Im just gonna drop it....:p

Dont you guys think that an Israel civ should be an ancient era based civ? I mean the modern state of Israel has existed little over half a century. I think it would make more sense if this mod featured an ancient UU and an ancient era leader. I think Kind David and King Solomon would be the most recognizable ones

One little thing about cities' names: although you obviously try to make it as much Israeli as possible, I believe that it's more important to give the city it's real name and not one which sounds familiar to Israeli ear.
After all, it's still Jerusalem, even if we pronounce it "Yerushalaim".
Just a thought :)

Dont you guys think that an Israel civ should be an ancient era based civ?
I believe that's what Ariks was trying to accomplish. Once I finish my mod, it will incorporate ancient and modern Israel.
I believe that it's more important to give the city it's real name and not one which sounds familiar to Israeli ear.
After all, it's still Jerusalem, even if we pronounce it "Yerushalaim".
Actually, Yerushalayim is the correct pronunciation of "Jerusalem."

Actually, Yerushalayim is the correct pronunciation of "Jerusalem."

I do know that! But here's the difference between the correct pronunciation and the correct spelling. Since it's English based mod, imho, names should match english spelling rules and not hebrew pronunciation rules.
For example, the default cities' names are Rome, Paris, Moscow etc., not Roma, Pari, Moskva... as pronounced by their natives.
But as mentioned above, it's just my humble opinion. :)

I think the merkava tank would be awsome but this looks like an ancient Israel mod so i would have to go with the slinger and david and soloman as the leaders so as to leave polotics out of this.

woops double post

Much as I like dabbling in hebrew phoenetic spellings, I would have to agree with jcricket... Hebrew is not a supported language, and the english spelling is what should be used in the english translation.

Now if you are feeling extremely ambitiuous, you could always try to mod in a Hebrew translation...

And I still favor David and Solomon for the leaders... Saul was a failure, Jonathan never got to be king, and aside from Hezekiah and Josiah and a rare few others nobody after Solomon was worth much mention... plus that whole divided kingdom business... and given that ten tribes are not represented in modern isreal, I don't favor a modern leader no matter how worthy they may be of "honorable mention"...

That said, and admitting up front I'm not an expert here, but I'm curious... was the original spelling of the word that got transliterated to "jerusalem" spelled with a sin or a shin? I'm just wondering if the current "correct" pronunciation matches up with what's written in the OT...

RH

If my memory doesn't fail me, the origin of the name is a combination of "הר ה' יראה" and "שלם", so I do belive it was spelled with shin. But I'm far from being an expert either.

Thanks... although I'll admit I'm having transliterating in my head one of those characters in the first word (left to right)... I've got the resh, aleph, he, and yod IDed... but what's the "appostrophe" after the second he... or is that actually an apostrophe?

Oh, and how do you get hebrew characters to show up in the forum like that? Is it a font in advanced mode or something?

RH

No, just typing it :)

The whole phrase is:
"Har (hill) hashem (God) yerar'e (appears/sees)"
According to Torah it was the name given by Abraham after near-sacrifice of his son Isaac, as a proof of his faith in God.
Since we cannot pronounce (or type, in this case) God's name we use hey with apostrophe as abbreviation for "hashem" ("the name").

I wasn't aware Mt. Moriah was the hill Jerusalem was built on. For some reason I thought Moriah was further south...

RH

War chariot? come on - " dont trust the horses of egypt " ring any bells? :)

Personally, I like Hezekiah, but I dont think that he is a very well known name so perhaps not the best choice.


thirdly, I don't own civ4 and the demo crashes on city screen so it may be a while before I am remotely in a position to play this mod..if ever. :/ so take my suggestion with that in mind:) But I would love to play israel.


Also, another starting tech - perhaps Alphabet (or whatever leads to alphabet seeing as I Am not familiar with civ4 tech tree). Seriously! I read something recently where there was some form of proto-alphabet used by a semitic people in the sinai, somewhat based on heiroglyphics but actual letter->sound and not letter->concept alphabet.

Besides which, isn't aleph bet, you know, hebrew? :D

Mt. Moriah (Temple Mount) is very much in Jerusalem, otherwise what do our palestinian friends fight for? ;)

why dont you make this an ancient and modern Israel mod? Both are needed in the game

Mt. Moriah (Temple Mount) is very much in Jerusalem, otherwise what do our palestinian friends fight for? ;)

Hmm how did I forget that... must be brain drained or something...

Found a good one the other day... hope you all like it too...

RH


Moshe goes to see his Rabbi. "Rabbi, last week I missed saying grace after meals."

"Why," asked the Rabbi.

"Because I forgot to wash my hands before the meal."

"That’s twice you’ve broken the law but you still haven’t told me why."

"The food wasn’t kosher."

"You ate non-kosher food?" asked the Rabbi.

"It wasn’t a Jewish restaurant."

"That makes it even worse," said the now angry Rabbi. "Couldn’t you have eaten in a kosher one?"

"What, on Yom Kippur?"

War chariot? come on - " dont trust the horses of egypt " ring any bells? :)

Personally, I like Hezekiah, but I dont think that he is a very well known name so perhaps not the best choice.


thirdly, I don't own civ4 and the demo crashes on city screen so it may be a while before I am remotely in a position to play this mod..if ever. :/ so take my suggestion with that in mind:) But I would love to play israel.


Also, another starting tech - perhaps Alphabet (or whatever leads to alphabet seeing as I Am not familiar with civ4 tech tree). Seriously! I read something recently where there was some form of proto-alphabet used by a semitic people in the sinai, somewhat based on heiroglyphics but actual letter->sound and not letter->concept alphabet.

Besides which, isn't aleph bet, you know, hebrew? :D

The alphabet tech isn't as powerful as it used to be, but it's still useful. And it would be a very good choice for a starting tech, actually, since the Hebrew alephbet was one of the very first to have been developed... Considering that the patriarchs were shepherds, after all, maybe that would mean the starting techs should be animal husbandry and alphabet?

Oh and I believe the phrase you want was Deut 17:16 "But he shall not multiply horses to himself" with the fairly obvious interpretation that the Isrealites were not to rely on chariots but on God for their protection. So yea I definately thing war chariot is a VERY bad choice for UU... no offense intended of course... but I would recommend just about *anything* else...

The slinger idea isn't actually bad, there's a lot more than just David & Goliath, there's also the Benjamites, and plenty of others. Although by David's time they were mostly archers... Here's an idea. Instead of replacing archers with slingers, replace axemen! Ancient isreal didn't really have much in the way of blacksmiths or high-tech weaponry of the day, but they were very good with bows and slings... so why not replace one of those with slingers? This more accurately represents the history of the country... maybe even have swordsmen replaced with axemen to better represent the way the melee weaponry hung back for quite some time... and maybe even boost the archers and axemen UU as well... I'm pretty sure you can have more than one UU for a civ, so why not really go to town and do it "right"?

Since that looks like it's getting confusing, let me diagram...

Axemen -> Slingers (true UU -- give the best bonuses here)
Swordsmen -> UU version of Axemen
Archers -> maybe slighly upgraded (probably vs mounted units)
Warriors, Spearmen, Longbowmen, and Knights unchanged

I would say that ancient and modern isreal should have separate civs if you decide to include both. If so, the merkava tank does make sense for the UU for modern isreal...

As for Hezekiah, he was a very important king in many ways, but yeah he's not going to be terribly well known outside of Jews and those few Christians who actually read their whole Bibles instead of just their favorite misinterpreted scriptures in Galatians, Romans, etc...

RH

Hi all,

Considering Israel's history and considering modern Israel to be, sort of, a successor of ancient Israel the UU debate should be quite clear. There haven't been any real UU in ancient Israel and the country never rose to such powerfull proportions as it's contemporaries, like Babylonia, Egypt, Rome etc. What we can say for sure though is that the modern Israeli army is without a doubt considered to be one of the best trained and most efficient armed forces on the planet. The Merkavah tank is a good idea but nobody has mentioned the Israeli Air Force which is impressive indeed. A good UU idea would be an upgraded modern fighter (you could call it the IAI Lavi or something). The fighter should seriously increase chances of intercepting enemy aircraft and even have superior air-strike skills.
What do you think?

Regards to all

Any idea when this will be updated with a new UU? I'm waiting to add it to my Mod, but am holding off until something other than war chariot comes along. :)

I have an idea for a uu for israel, the maccabee as the new reskined javelineer unit. The unit could be reskined again to have the star of david on his shield. Take a look at the new reskin in the unit forum.

special unit - Chashmonee insted of warrior?

chashmonee Translation: "cash money":lol:

Considering Israel's history and considering modern Israel to be, sort of, a successor of ancient Israel the UU debate should be quite clear. There haven't been any real UU in ancient Israel and the country never rose to such powerfull proportions as it's contemporaries, like Babylonia, Egypt, Rome etc. What we can say for sure though is that the modern Israeli army is without a doubt considered to be one of the best trained and most efficient armed forces on the planet. The Merkavah tank is a good idea but nobody has mentioned the Israeli Air Force which is impressive indeed. A good UU idea would be an upgraded modern fighter (you could call it the IAI Lavi or something). The fighter should seriously increase chances of intercepting enemy aircraft and even have superior air-strike skills.
What do you think?

I would agree with you , except for the fact that such a UU would not match the leaders of the Israeli civilization. If these are leaders from ancient times , it doesn't make sense to have their UU a modern-day military unit.

well, bismarck and frederic have never seen a panzer
FDR and washington have never seen a navy seal
Napoleon have never seen a musketeer
Mao have never seen a Cho-ko-nu

it's never a matter of leader....it's a matter of unit

I'm surprised neither Moses nor Abraham have been mentioned as potential leaders. Or better yet, Joshua, with an early infantry unit that can also bombard enemy defenses with their mighty instruments and voices (a la Jericho).

The infantry unit should be the equivalent of a swordsman (6? attack I think) with the additional ability to bombard enemy defenses for 10-20% per attack.

Moses, Abraham, and Joshua never led an established nation. Abraham founded the Jewish religion and is the ancestor, according to religious accounts, of the Jewish people, but he never ruled a nation. Moses, though he did lead the Jewish people through Sinai, never entered the land of Israel and only led the people when they were nomads. Joshua, while in Israel, was not the leader of a settled kingdom and thus is disqualified. The first real ruler of Israel would be King Saul. My personal choice for leaders would be King David and King Solomon with Golda Meir as a possible modern leader. Slinger would be a good UU, and I think RobHunt has something with replacing the axeman. Also, if this is meant to be a hybrid of modern and ancient Israel, then Tel-Aviv should be the second or third city on the list (have not downloaded yet so I don't know what is on the list but it says in the 1st post that the citys are ancient based).

Leaders should be Soloman (Philo & Industrious -- built stuff and wrote Ecclesiastes & Proverbs) and Deborah (Spiritual & Creative). Has everyone forgotten Deborah -- the greatest Judge -- and a songstress?

As for a Unique Unit, I don't know if it's moddable, but what about a unit that functions like the Civ II partisans. Or, alternatively, a UU that gains a bonus when attacking/defending within Hebrew territory only.

On the kibbutzim, that's sort of what the cottage chain is.

Cool idea, of course. Now we can actually have Judaism's holy city BE YERUSHALAIM. *Gasp*

let the special unit to be Super Duperb Missionary that can enter a rival's city even though the border is close. and when judaism is spreaded in that city, the city posses a high inclination to overthrown, especially if that city was originally owned by the jews civilization

Make the UU Shoshana Damari! All enemy unites are so stunned by her voice (and by her accent) that they freeze, allowing themselves to be clobbered! :lol:

Guys I think the UU should be an upgraded air unit. As most of you probably know Israel has one of the best air forces. Plus as far as I know there aren't any special air units in Civ IV

The two possibilities that make the most sense to me for the UU would be either the Merkava tank or some sort of Judean rebel unit. The part where they would have to be rebels is obviously a problem, so IMO the Merkava would make more sense. I'd say give it the ability to recieve defensive bonuses and +25% bonuses for both desert and city bonuses.

As for the leaders, I think it makes the most sense to take one ancient era leader and one modern leader.

I wish I had some knowledge on how to create mods. I was able to tweak details in Civ 3 to make my Israeli Civ. I obviously didn't know how to create a brand new file, so I just adjusted the Babylonians. Changed the names, cities, great leaders, and colours. Unfortunately I was stuck with stupid Hammrabis head and ugly citizens in my cities.

My pick for unique unit had to be the Maccabis. That was pretty obvious. I made them 2/4/1 and available with Mysticism. Again, I didn't know how to change file names so unfortunately that never got used. But that would be my suggestion if anyone is good enough to create an Israeli Civ for Civ 4. And for leaders, David, Solomon, Ben Gurion or Maier.

good luck with you gaming
i'm ajcrocks if anyone's looking for a challenge.

I side with the modern Israel.

As someone else pointed out, Ancient Israel as a power was really nothing special. Without Judaism, which the game treats as a separate entity, it is a mere foot note.

Moses, Abraham, and the like should be reserved as "Great People" not civilization leaders. Afterall, in game terms, at least Israel != Judaism.

UU: I'd go with an improved Jetfighter or a Commando unit.

I'm not sure what trait's I'd use.

Aggressive: Possible. This would represent the fact that pound for pound, Israel possesses one of the greatest militaries in the world.

Creative: Doubtful. Without the Judaism/Christianity ties, Israel as a state hasn't really exerted much cultural influence. This does not discount the influence of non-Israeli Jews - but again, in the game Jew != Israeli.

Expansive: Possible. It could represent the massive immigration Israel enjoys. On the other hand, Israel is in reality under a constant "cultural bomb" type attack in the form of a much higher arab birthrate.

Financial: Doubtful. House Rothschild be damned, despite having a much stronger economy than any of its neighbors, Israel would not exist if not for large amounts of foreign aid.

Industrious: Possible. No real wonders in the CIV sense, but compared to neighboring states, industrious fits.

Organized: Maybe. Not really sure how to evaluate this.

Philosophical: Doubtful. Again, removing Judaism and non-Israeli Jews, there is much to work with here.

Spiritual: Doubtful. Modern Israel isn't really very religious. Most Israeli Jews consider themselves secular.

AGG/IND ?

Financial: Doubtful. House Rothschild be damned, despite having a much stronger economy than any of its neighbors, Israel would not exist if not for large amounts of foreign aid.
But what about all of the Jewish accountants and such? They sure are good with money :p

I side with the modern Israel.

As someone else pointed out, Ancient Israel as a power was really nothing special. Without Judaism, which the game treats as a separate entity, it is a mere foot note.

Moses, Abraham, and the like should be reserved as "Great People" not civilization leaders. Afterall, in game terms, at least Israel != Judaism.

UU: I'd go with an improved Jetfighter or a Commando unit.

I'm not sure what trait's I'd use.

Aggressive: Possible. This would represent the fact that pound for pound, Israel possesses one of the greatest militaries in the world.

Creative: Doubtful. Without the Judaism/Christianity ties, Israel as a state hasn't really exerted much cultural influence. This does not discount the influence of non-Israeli Jews - but again, in the game Jew != Israeli.

Expansive: Possible. It could represent the massive immigration Israel enjoys. On the other hand, Israel is in reality under a constant "cultural bomb" type attack in the form of a much higher arab birthrate.

Financial: Doubtful. House Rothschild be damned, despite having a much stronger economy than any of its neighbors, Israel would not exist if not for large amounts of foreign aid.

Industrious: Possible. No real wonders in the CIV sense, but compared to neighboring states, industrious fits.

Organized: Maybe. Not really sure how to evaluate this.

Philosophical: Doubtful. Again, removing Judaism and non-Israeli Jews, there is much to work with here.

Spiritual: Doubtful. Modern Israel isn't really very religious. Most Israeli Jews consider themselves secular.

AGG/IND ?

Aggressive entails that our nation is also aggressive...Modern Israel, might be Spiritual/Philosophical & Industrious/Organized, but our whole nation history from Ancient to Modern has been each of those traits.

I could give a list of all our leaders and what their traits could be... Ancient, Maccabean, Medieval, Industrial & Modern.

Although we had no land during the end of the Ancient ages....we were still united and never destroyed, so i would use great people in replace of leaders in that case.

Although we had no land during the end of the Ancient ages....we were still united and never destroyed, so i would use great people in replace of leaders in that case.

I disagree.

The state of Israel was destroyed - it did not exist.

Between the 587 BCE and 1948, there was no state of Israel in any real sense of the word.

For the context of this game, you must differentiate between Israeli and Jewish.

Benjamin Disraeli, for example, was Jewish, but were he to be included in the game he would have to be considered English (British).

I think your forgetting about the Maccabean kingdom.....and just because there was land of Israel in maps, does not mean we did not continue to exist.

The Israeli's/Hebrew's continued as a civilization, living under their conquerors power.

So it would be pretty much during the 1st century AD, when we were no more.

And you can differentiate.....to become a Jew, means you are now part of the nation of Israel.

That would be like saying there is no Kurdish civilization or Basque...just because they had no country either.

You want to tell them that? They would spit in our face and swear at you, to tell them just because they had no control over their land, they suddenly stopped existing as a civilization.

Haha, armchair Israeli. That's a new expression :). I'm Israeli yes but you guessed it right I'm currently living chuz laaretz because of my job which makes me moving arround a lot.

I'm planing to add Shlomo and maybe even Chizqiyah. For modern leaders probably Ben Gurion for a start. But everything at its time - I'm really bad at graphics so I'm kinda reliant on what is out there. Although I managed to do the flag and button which turned out just fine.

What about David, Solomon, Sabbatai Za'evi (Kaballah) or Hamon? Rabbi Leow (The Golem of Prague)? Let us not forget Moses, or even Abraham.

The Israelis bulldoze buildings left and right and who says anything? No one. That's right! NO ONE! The best way to gain a clear perspective on an issue is to learn how to see the world from the vantage point of the other side, with the eyes of the enemy. Europe and America are still all so hung up emotionally on their collective guilt about not getting involved in WWII in time thus preventing German expansionism and the Jewish Holocaust that they have automatically given Israel a blank check to do whatever it wants in exchange. The Greater Israel project is as much a result of this mentality as the Greater Germany project was in WWII. That fact is the main issue with regards to Palestine, and it is also the driving force behind the reactionary, hate-filled rethoric of the leadership of the global Islamic terrorism networks, whose motives are sound but whose methods are contemptible. Which reminds me: Who wants to see Terrorism added as an added variable into the game, perhaps as a Mujahedeen or Fedayeen unit, along with the Freedom Fighter or Anarchist unit, or as a modern version of the Barbarians?

But what about all of the Jewish accountants and such? They sure are good with money :p

Having Jewish family, this makes me feel alot more better! :D

But I think that Financial still doesnt suite, compared to other nations - non of the Israeli leaders descended from a clear accountant gender.

The Israelis bulldoze buildings left and right ... rant rant rant...

What part of "No Politics" don't you understand?

What would Golda Meir's leader traits be? Given their turbulent modern history, I would say that Aggressive would not be a bad choice since the quality of their military is very high and their culture has a decidedly militaristic bent to it. I'm not sure what else to put up there, though, perhaps Financial?If not, then perhaps Industrious...

The Israelis bulldoze buildings left and right and who says anything?
C'mon its very cool, as a little kid I wanted to drive bulldozers! :D

The Greater Israel project is as much a result of this mentality as the Greater Germany project was in WWII.
Cool, the war it results will lead to cool new modpacks and games about 10 years after it. :D

Serious: gianluca790, Israel and the Jewish people have been dehumanized for years and you want to put something above it? You act like "Because they have been oppressed since their existence, they simply asked for it, because criminals were treated the same way for the same things, the Jews too." I really hate such mentatility, and shows how rude members of the board and even the human race can act like.

Also, we were supposed do not political in the thread, and even outside the thread, you may not bash about nations and such.

There are some great ideas in this thread already, but here is my 2c worth for a playable Israel Mod:

Definetly ancient kingdom: Even though modren israel is a hot politcal subject in the world today; the ancient kingdom was more of an original civilization and had more technological and cultural influence. Without Israel, you would have to have the Egyptians setlling Jerusalem, discovering Monotheism, making Jerusalem the holy city of Judaism. Then the Greeks would take it, then the Romans, then the Romans would found Christianity there. Talk about convolutions......

King David Agressive, Spiritual. Favorite civic: Theocracy. Remember he spent his entire life in warfare and became famous as an elite military commander. He also introduced the idea of "holy warfare" to the Israel psyche; before him they were always the victims.

King Solomon Creative, Financial: Favorite civic: Free trade. He effectively tripled the size of the country through cultural assimilation alone, and made Jerusalem the most wealthy city of the ancient world.

Why these two and not some Maccabean or Modren leader? Success in Civilization (I'm talking game terms here, not necessarily real-world) is measured in population, culture, power, and land (just think of the graphs avaiable under the F10 function). By all of these indicators, even the modren nation of Israel as funded and powered by the Western World has not matched the achievements of it's golden age under these two leaders.

Unique Unit - Remember that in the Torah Israel was forbidden to accumulate horses or calvary. Based on the ancient model: I agree with the earlier posts about slingers.

Benjamanite Slinger Strength:3, Movement: 1, Cost: 30, replaces Archer. Normal archer bonuses +75% against mounted. If you look at history, not only did Isreal not use calvary but did not really use formations of spearman as well. Instead, their range troops were used super-effectively as anti-calvary weapons.

Here's an alternative: (again based off of the ancient model)

Judaen Hillsman (replaces axemen): 5,1,35 (+50% vs. melee), treats hills as roads. These units would be effective against calvary as well because they could outmanuever them into better defensive terrain.

For those of you who want to insist on some link to Modren Israel, here's another UU possibility. This could definetely work within the current Civ4 rules.

Mossad Agent replaces spy, +1movement, +1scouting range.

Remember guys: when talking about the traits of a civilization in civ 4, they are evaluated off of the leader, not the civ itself. Just look at the huge difference between the 2 german leaders, playing Fred. is a totally different game than playing Bismarck. Therefore: any successfull Isreali mod would have to center around powerfull leaders - which is one reason that ancient is better than modren for this mod. Who would you use for a modren leader: Sharon? Netanyahu? Doesn't really work.

You really must add to income 666 talents of gold which Soloman received as tribute every year! Oh, and no other civ can attack when he is King (i.e., during the Golden Age). At all other times all other nations are furious with Israel, except America and England which are merely annoyed and Persia which should be cautious or pleased (after Mordecai appears - somehow).

OK, just to show that a christian is also reading the old testament :-)

If there would be the leader Nehemiah
I would say the UU would be a worker with a better defensiv capabilities
(as it is written "They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon." Neh 4, 17)
and a faster finish of the work when in the cityarea because they worked a lot (as it is stated in the bible: "So we laboured in the work: and half of them held the spears from the rising of the morning till the stars appeared. Likewise at the same time said I unto the people, Let every one with his servant lodge within Jerusalem, that in the night they may be a guard to us, and labour on the day." Neh 4, 21 & 22,)

but as I think that there will be no Nehemia I would go for the sling-type.
I have no idea how good there tanks are, we have the leopard 2A5, which is awesome...
Or maybe the Mossad - but I must say - I never used spies so far.
The idea with the Missionary I would not agree - Judaism was never preached a lot to the unbelievers, which means that a type of "missionary" to spread the Tora to the people wouldn´t match the real situation.

David would be at least spiritual and maybe aggressive
Salomo would be a spiritual/financial type

Great idea for a mod, well done

How about Chassid as Israel's special unit?
They'd be really rubbish in combat, but they could dance around and sing a lot....
:)
sorry my little joke
Great idea for a mod, well done, great discussion too

Hezekiah would be cool as a leader

I see Ariks hasn't been on the boards since Nov 05. Has anyone attempted to continue this project? If not, I may try to contact him and continue work on this.

I see Ariks hasn't been on the boards since Nov 05. Has anyone attempted to continue this project? If not, I may try to contact him and continue work on this.

Please do. It bugs me both the celts and hebrews were removed from C4. So I play the Arabs. :)

for a UU may i suggest what rhye used for his civ 3 mod, merkava or maccabee. both are excelllent choices

there should be 2 UU...a modern and ancient. This way it would go nicely with Masterlex's Green Mod.

Israel naturally made me think about the Philistines and wonder if anyone has ever done a Unique of their civilization...

Many records show they were quite advanced...and having Giants as a UU would sure be interesting...

Can you make the flag with the star of david? and the unique unit should be a macabee. replaces scordsman:ninja:

Cool beans, I don'T know If you care, this being page 6 and all, but I would like to say:"Kudos to you" finaly a mod which doesn't Make Isreal all unrealistic and unbalanced. (as in three atributes for leaders and ultra stron armored units). Although might I suggest having spirital and mabe organized as leader traits, considering as you know Isreal had many note worthy great people, but sadly nowhere nere the amount england or others had (partialy because It vanished for a good 2000 years)?

cheers though for a good mod, keep it comming

Sorry to bump such an old thread...

I think that the idea is pretty cool, Ariks said that he wanted someone to help him with the graphics, I am not the best but I have some talent and I offer my help although according to Caen, he hasn't been online lately, I think someone should try finishing this project. I would offer myself, but I am really bad in programming.....

I can't claim to have read through every single post, but I have read some of the comments, and think the following should be done:

Leaders: David and Golda Meir
Techs: ???

Unique Unit: I thought about this one, trying to think of something not too era-specific. I settled on a common Israeli theme: miraculous victories. I propose a "Divine Intervener" (Like a saint, yeshiva student, etc, depending on religion) That would not give any productivity to a city yet built, but would cause an army to not be able to capture a town for a certain amount of time, based on the % of population in the city and religious buildings, due to their "prayer". I know this ruins some anthropological aspects of the game by implying the existence of a G-d, but it is certainly the most appropriate.

Nono, Solomon is Industrious - built the Temple of Solomon, and Philosophical -got the wisdom to judge by God. Hizkiya would be a good leader too=P

ohhh, I have an idea - David's war heros - It is known that king David had a group of heroic soldiers who were his "Musketeers". They will fit well and they supported king Solomon too.

I REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted it :goodjob:

Techs: They should start with monotheism, the problem is that to get there they must have polytheism and having civs with religion since the beginning of the game would make everything unbalanced and crappy.... So i'd say, starting with mysticism (nearest to religion) and hunting since abraham and those guys were all shepherds......

Leaders: King David/Moses/Itzjak Rabin
Either of the thre that you chose must be spiritual, David should be agressive, Moses should be Philosophical and Rabin Expansive


Who is going to do it? :(

So i'd say, starting with mysticism (nearest to religion) and hunting since abraham and those guys were all shepherds......


Wouldn't that mean that they should start with animal husbandry instead of hunting?

no because to have animal husbandry you need agriculture and hunting;)

David should be spiritual and aggressive for sure; spiritual because he wrote most of the Psalms and was "a man after God's own heart", and aggressive because of his military prowess and many victories against the Philistines. Solomon should probably be philosophical and industrious. I can understand arguing for financial for Solomon because of his vast wealth, but of course we already have Elizabeth who is Phi/Fin, and I would LOVE to play a Hebrew/Israeli civ (or any civ) that is Phi/Ind. What a combination that would be! Someone mentioned a "Divine Intervenor" as a UU - that sounds like a cool idea - sort of like the "prophet" unit in Empire Earth. Otherwise, a special worker unit that could defend itself (like in the Book of Nehemiah) would be good as well. Mysticism and Hunting? Definitely!

Techs: They should start with monotheism, the problem is that to get there they must have polytheism and having civs with religion since the beginning of the game would make everything unbalanced and crappy.... So i'd say, starting with mysticism (nearest to religion) and hunting since abraham and those guys were all shepherds......

Leaders: King David/Moses/Itzjak Rabin
Either of the thre that you chose must be spiritual, David should be agressive, Moses should be Philosophical and Rabin Expansive


Who is going to do it? :(

well perhaps someone will pick up the glove in create it already :)
i would surely like to but i dont know how to create more things to the game.

I was thinking that a good UU for a modernIsrael leader would be the Haganah, a souped up infantry with added defense.

I like to play America just to conquer them and re name it the "51st State of America" Finaly they can start paying taxes for everything we give them W00T!

Woah you are crossing lines there neohyram.

Being an American Catholic myself, I am a HUUUUUGE fan of the Israeli state.

We need to unleash them on the Arab muslums that have persecuted them for centuries. Just absolutely unleash them. I plan on playing as them, as well. Great idea.

Israeli UU should be Settlers with a defence/attack. It fits...

I was thinking that maybe another good choice for a leader for Israel would be Golda Meir. Just a thought. And if it were me playing them as a civ, I think I'd prefer a more modern UU.

i am getting tired of seing this mod with no UU.
heres one:
Zealot
[axeman, + guerilla1 and woodsman1]
makes sense, as these fought off the romans
during the jewish wars, and an axeman is a
decent counter to a Praetorian.
heres the file [is just unitinfos, replaces the one in units folder]:

intresting. but i never considered them a country. same with pakistan.
but sounds cool. :crazyeye:

Sorry to throw in so late on this, but it looks like the thread has been rezzed and reused a number of times... :D ...I'm what was described as an "armchair Israeli" (ie, I'm an American Jew that lived in Israel for 4 years so I identify with the place a great deal).. I've been pitching for an Israeli civ in other threads here before I found this.

The possibilities are endless for Israeli UUs. A "Sayyeret Commando" would be great, just put a skin on the US Navy Seal and give him an Uzi (even though Uzis really suck! :mischief: ). A Mossad agent would work too, primarily as an Assassin type. A mod for a Merkava tank would be -1 speed but a +2 defense. Or perhaps an IAF F-15.

Kibbutzim would be just a meld between Towns and Farms, a sort of hybrid that produces both hammers and bread (although I think the bread looks like 'toast' but I digress).

Leaders should be Solomon for Ancient and David ben-Gurion for Modern. But, I'm just one more opinion in a chorus...

Hi everyone!
I've said this at another forum already but I'm really looking forward to a modpack which adds Israel (Maybe possible to choose between for example King David and Olmert or Rabin (?!)). But also the surrounding states. I'd love to play with current state of Israel. I think, somehow, the game can become so realistic! I already love the person who makes this!! :goodjob:

heheh looks to me Ariks has a lot of work to do! :| so many demands and wishes here :D

I don't know how hard it is to add another leader but you should add Abraham since he founded it... Just an idea not makeing demands =D

It should definitly be a slinger. That was a common unit of the era.

It was said good slinger armies could aim for a blade of grass and hit it. And that's how David took down Goliath. They can fling those rocks over 90 MPH accurately. It was like an accurate fastball.

Someone should reskin the Peltast unit for Warlords. That would make a better looking unit for the Israelis.IMO

Looks excellent, however I would recommend a better version of the spy being Israel's special unit, seeing as Israels incredible military successes in the past have been thanks to intelligence. For example, having a spy invisible to enemy units and capable of infiltrating enemy cities would be able to report what techs they are working on, what units, or perhaps negating promotions of units in that city for a turn.

Just a thought, good luck.

What update is needed for this mod? It doesn't seem to be working in my game...:nuke:

Finally, a new civilization for the Arabs, Egyptians, and Romans to whoop up on AND it is historically acurate. Honestly, I was kinda tired of making Jerusalem a barbarian city in all my Asia Minor Scenarios. Cheers!


P.S. No, I'm not a Jew basher. I just like historically accurate scenarios.

Finally, a new civilization for the Arabs, Egyptians, and Romans to whoop up on AND it is historically acurate. Honestly, I was kinda tired of making Jerusalem a barbarian city in all my Asia Minor Scenarios. Cheers!


P.S. No, I'm not a Jew basher. I just like historically accurate scenarios.

This was one of the first civs made when civ 4 came out.

This was one of the first civs made when civ 4 came out.

How so? I think I might be misunderstanding you. Is this civ already made?

Judaea is an important peice of history, especially if the game added religion to the mix. I wonder why Sid didn't have it added to the actuall game.

How so? I think I might be misunderstanding you. Is this civ already made?

Judaea is an important peice of history, especially if the game added religion to the mix. I wonder why Sid didn't have it added to the actuall game.

Never mind, I found CIV Gold. Thanks, I would not have noticed it if you had not have replied. Cheers!

I just want to say thanks for making this Civ. I have included it into my current project (see sig for details). I really like the flag you made for this Civ (the medorah)

I like the idea of a settler with a strong defensive capability (3?). Maybe not attack, but at least good enough to fend off animals and barbarians up to archers.

Also, I like the idea of a spy unit. It's modern Israel's best unique asset. Their Air Force (and most of their military) is just American stuff and other weapons bought with American money. I'd love to play with spies, but the big problem (I think) is that they show up too late in the game and you have to pursue a tech path I wouldn't normally pursue and you have to build Scotland yard and all--just not worth it. How about making the Mossad easier to get than a normal spy?

Sorry, I don"t know if anyone else suggested this, but what about Krav Maga trained agents for Unique Unit. Also, is there anything going on with this mod anymore? More leaders, new buildings?? Temple of Solomon great wonder? I don't care what all the others have said about it being a stupid idea to include the Israelis as a civilization, Just because in history the Hebrew people didn't have a capital city anymore for along time doesn't mean the culture died. In fact the culture itself stayed around much longer than alot of European cultures. Just my opinion. Great idea, love to see more done with it.

Merkava Tanks would be awesome!!!

*singing* Dovid! Melech Yisroel! Chai! Chai! Vikayam! (Dovid, King of Israel, lives forever!) :lol:

Anyway, A feature I suggest: Editing the Jewish Missionary to be called "Rabbi" with the units info talking about how the Rabbi's job is to unite the Jews in (your/his city here) into a community, thus giving it a significant presense in the city.

I guess you could leave the synagogue name...although I like "Shul" better.

Rename "Jewish Seminary" to "Yeshiva"

Can anyone think of a good way to add the idea of kibbutzim (is that the correct noun?) to the game?

Since civ 3 I have often thought this would be a useful unit, could build a town and instantly provide somekind of defensive and cultural bonus.. (if i recall, this was the idea of a kibbutz, to send communities out to build towns whilst using communal living to free up people for military and building work.

Perhaps a modified settler with large build time that once activated (set to build) would provide a basic unit (do we still have "conscript" level in civ4) and possibly a slight extension to the default culture (not fully developed but some increased culture, or at least a food bonus in the early stages?

I have played with one Israeli mod (civ 3) that didnt have this, but do not have the nouse or time to do this myslef (okay, im a lazy b*gger).

Also, does anyone else think this would be a good special unit? Sorry to ask other about this, but you folks seem t understand the history of this nation better than myself and also understand the whole modding thing better.

Mazel Tov

Kibbutzim could be modded as a specific Urban Upgrade, Like the granary or something that increases food, but also a social benefit, like hospitals, that can add to a cities happiness factor.

Anyway, great Ideas.

Nice to see fellow yehudim getting represented in Civ;)

Lehitraot

Shai Shammai

I think Israel should just get one free tech: Monotheism. The UU could be something that starts with amphibious (since God has a knack for turning rivers on and off) and gets an attack bonus against cities with heathen religions. This unit, however, could only be built in cities where Judaism is the only religion present.

I think that would be fairly faithful to the Biblical story, and also provide some interesting game play. You could greatly weaken Israel by undermining its religious integrity, just as in the OT.

Oh, I also think this Civ should have an enhanced chance of breaking into two kingdoms.

I also think there are lots of awesome things to have David say during diplomacy.

"Saul has slain his thousands! David his tens of thousands!"
"Do not provoke me to number the house of Israel!"
"Ho ho ho! Now I have a sling! Please stand very still."
"We should not let [enemy leader]'s grey head go down to the grave in peace. Care to help me punish him with desert thorns and briars?"

Oh, one other thing. I think that even though Israel starts out with Judaism, they shouldn't be able to accrue great prophet points while at war. That would fit with how David wasn't able to build the Temple of Solomon because he had "shed blood abundantly, and...made great wars."

Ho Ho, first post here.

First off, no one is mentioning what the UB would be. The kibbutzim would work as one (someone might have mentioned something like that already).

I like the idea of a Slinger as a replacement archer with bonus vs. cavs.
There is appeal in a late-game UU too though.
Whatever you do, put the UB in one era, and the UU in the other.

Perhaps a slinger UU and a spy agency UB.

Ok, sorry about the consecutive posts but here goes:

Leaders:
David: Spiritual, Agressive
Some modern leader (not to well versed in isreali political history): Financial Protective

UU:
Slinger: Replaces Archer, 4 power, 1 move, retains city defense bonus, loses hills bonus, +50% vs. cavs.

UB:
Mossad: Replaces Security Bureau, don't know the stats of the original to be able to modify them.

Starting techs: Mystic and Hunting (leads to AH and Archery)

The other leader could be Solomon, philosophical/creative or Nehemiah, industrious/protective.

Why not Ariel Sharon, was one of the best Israeli leaders of his time, one of the few modern prime ministers who served in the army as a General. He can be Aggressive, and a military bonus, i forgot what its called. Even the USA doesnt have many leaders anymore who served in the military, Sharon is a rarity. UUs can be perhaps Merkava or Sayeret(IDF Special Forces) or Mossad(Spy/Assasin/SecurityForce) or F16i (Israeli modified american fighter jet.) and other ones already listed.

And starting techs would be nice to give them monotheisim in order to be guaranteed as Judaism as their religion, and perhaps another more defence and military oriented tech.

Awesome mod. Ill combine this with Nazi Germany mod for the ultimate showdown! In fact, Ill throw in Isabella, Ragnar, and Stalin, and we'll have a slobberknocker.

I agree. Israel is one of the strongest nations today and definetaly was strong in earlier times. This mod isnt good enough since I also like other mods.

I can understand it. Israel has had a huge cultural impact, but let's face it, it was not strong at all in earlier times; ancient Israel was pretty much consistently at the mercy of its more advanced neighbours. Egypt, Babylon, Greece, Rome. A who's who of the ancient world is also a list of conquerors of Israel. The triumphs of ancient Israel are purely provincial, totally limited to victories over similarly minor powers of the Levant. In the modern world, it is considerably more secure; but has only existed a few decades and is not independantly secure by any means.

The duration of the culture and its enormous cultural/religious impact is certainly sufficient reason for its inclusion. Its fragility is not exceptional if you look at some of the other civs that have been included.

Israel is one of the strongest nations

It is very funny. Especially from 2006 Lebanon war, which was totaly lost, as well as today's muppet leaders..
Leader's balls is very important too, because power of country is cummulative with many factors.

^^ can you explain why you think Israel lost to Lebanon during 2006 war?

Lol, Israel killed hundreds hundreds lebanese terrorists and thousands of civilians while Israel's side less than 200...

But if, Israel didnt fight against only Hezbulah but all of Lebanon, then of course, one day war, Israel would take all of Lebanese lands and put under Israel's control...

Lol... your crazy!