Bulgarian civilization v 1.3

Civilization
Name: Bulgaria
Techs: Hunting, Agriculture
Leaders: Khan Asparuh, Tzar Simeon Veliki, Todor Zhivkov, Stefan Stambolov
Unique Units: Konnik
Color: Green

Leaders
Khan Asparuh (Aggressive, Expansive) favors Vassalage

Tzar Simeon Veliki :king: (Philosophical, Creative) favors Hereditary Rule

Todor Zhivkov (Spiritual, Organized) favors State property

Stefan Stambolov (Financial, Industrious) favors Police State

Unique Unit
Konnik (replaces Horse archer)
(uses Mongol keshik art)
- 50 cost
- Attack and defense same as Mongol keshik
- Movement: 2
- Power: 6

Changes from the previous version:
- Added leaderheads
- Changed Todor Zhivkov
- Added a new leader - Stefan Stambolov
- Removed Boyar and Partizanin UU

General Notes

- To use, unzip to your Mod folder and run Bulgaria.part1.exe.
- all civ, leaders and units have Civilopedia English entries
- there are over 60 bulgarian cities with modern names

While you're at it, why not add a special invisible unit that can travel through time and has infinity ammunition for its high yield nuclear bazooka ?

While it could have been said a bit nicer, the last poster is right. The UU you made are overpowered compared to other Civs and their UU.

While it could have been said a bit nicer, the last poster is right. The UU you made are overpowered compared to other Civs and their UU.
Calm down now. I'm sure he has his reasons.

And welcome to the forums svetg. First off I would like to say that rather than adding references to CIV4GameText_Civilopedia_CivLeaders.xml, CIV4GameText_Civiliopedia_Units, CIV4GameText_Strategy.xml, CIV4GameTextInfos_Cities, CIV4GameTextInfos_Objects.xml, you should create a custom .xml file using the encoding values from that file so it doesn't overwrite anything.

Here's some code to get you started.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<!-- Sid Meier's Civilization 4 -->
<!-- Copyright Firaxis Games 2005 -->
<!-- -->
<Civ4GameText xmlns="http://www.firaxis.com">
<TEXT>
</TEXT>
</Civ4GameText>


Place all of your custom text references in this new file and it will be called up as long as it's in the XML/Text directory of the game. I know this from experience.

Also consider, before throwing a mod into circulation, to make it the best modification possible. There are reasonable resources on these forums that any single modder could use to create flags, unit graphics, and leaderheads. There are a lot (and I do mean A LOT) of additional Civilization mods flying around on the completed modpacks forum. Let's make the best of them shall we?

Unique Unit
Madarski konnik (replaces Horse archer)
(uses Mongol keshik art)
- 50 cost
- Attack and defense same as Mongol keshik

You are not using the hungarian horseman as a UNIQUE BULGARIAN UNIT are you?:rolleyes:

Perhaps Madar has different meaning than Magyar in Bulgarian, who knows... anyway, Magyar should have the Tegethoff class battleship as their unique unit representing the SMS Szent Istvan and Admiral Miklos, the Scourge of Balaton as leader. Perhaps with a parrot on his shoulder. GARR!

During World War I, Horthy distinguished himself as an admiral in the Austro-Hungarian Navy. During the war he defeated the Italian Navy several times, and was wounded at the battle of the Otranto Straits. Because of his success on behalf of the Dual Monarchy, he was promoted to Commander in Chief of the Imperial Fleet in March, 1918, and held that position until he was ordered by Emperor Karl to surrender the fleet to the new State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs on October 31.

Then Hungary became a kingdom without king, with an admiral as regent who had no sea... :crazyeye:

Anyhow, i think (cant guarantee that) i will make a magyar mod with the hungarian horsearcher and the hussar as 2 unique units.. Perhaps St. István and king Mathias as leaders. But definately no fascists.. :vomit:

Sorry for off-topic..

Thanks for creating this mode.It is realy great that someone actuly made it,i thougt that i will have to whait for the other ecpansions to be released before someone actuly makes smothing like this.And just one thing- for thouse who don`t know this "the madar konik" is a horsman carveded on a rock just below the fortress of Madar.But i do think that the name should be Bagatur-that was the name of the profesional bulgar Cavalry.Anyway THANKS.

I made this mod for myself and I like it the way it is. I posted it because there was not any other bulgarian mod listed and I thought that they are people without programming knowledge that wants to play as bulgarians.
About the units:
I don't see the link between hungarian horseman and madarski konnik. For the lazies there is the Google link: http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=active&q=madarski+konnik&btnG=Search
For the spy's and sabotage abilities for the other special units there is a reason and it's called historical reality. I said I didn't have a time to test my mod. If these units are overpowered I can raise their price or lower their power, or both, but I will keep the other abilities, because I like them to be as close as possible to the historical reality. Bulgaria as a civilization have more than 1300 years history and about half of this time we were occupied by other powers like Roman Empire, Byzantium Empire, Ottoman Empire. That's why the unique unit should be guerilla type and not the regular army.

Jecrel: Thank you for the reference. I wanted to make all mods in a different file, but I didn't figure it out. That's why I inserted my mods in these files. When I have a time I will make it right

arcbulgar(bg): You are right about the bagatur. I knew that this was historically the main unique bulgarian unit for the first 300 years. I just can't remember the name and "Madarski konnik" was the first thing that came to my mind. Since at this time I made this mod strictly for myself I kept it until i have a time to test it. I will change this in the next version.

hello there,

it'd be very nice to have a Bulgarian mod but let's not make a joke of it!
i'd like to share some considerations with you:

1. About the techs - it doesn't make sense to combine Hunting and Agriculture - agriculture is definitely not a
characteristic feature of early Bulgarians.

2. It'd be more correct to say Tzar Simeon The Great or simply Tzar Simeon I - since everything else is written in English

3. There's no such fenomenon as "Madarski konnik" (in English - "Madara Horseman"). Madara Horseman relief
is called so because it is carved on the rocks near Madara village. There was not such unit in Bulgarian army!
It was simply a horseman - and that's it.

4.Well, you are right - there are two characteristic elements in Bulgarian army in the Middle Ages - the Horseman
and the Archer. Yet they are not as civ-specific as the Boyar.
If you still miss a Medieval Unit - it'd better be the Boyar. It is more a military-administrative position rather than
a pure military one - but it is the unique one.

5. I think you have shaped the leaders well enough. They are OK.

6. I doubt that Haidutin should be able to sabotage and destroy. I think it should have great defensive bonus in forests instead.
And I think it should have Movement = 1.

7. Movement = 2 is more suitable for Partizanin, indeed. It definitely shouldn't be able to steal plans or investigate.
If you need a unit to steal plans or investigate - it'd rather be a Communist Secretary :o).
I think a terrain-related bonus would be fine enough.

8. And, of course, we still miss some original artwork!

Anyway - it's great you've started this project!



Best regards,

formFactor

1. If you read the history you should know that Bulgaria as a civilization was formed at 681 A.D. as a mix of proto-Bulgars and Slavs in proportion about 1:10. When proto-Bulgars were warriors and they definitely were hunters, the Slavs were peasants mostly. Does this make sense now?

2. I can change this of course, but since this is part of the name, it shouldn’t be translated. Why translate just the end and not the whole name. The name Simeon means "God has heard.", so the whole name should be King God has heard Great fully translated or Tzar Simeon Veliki non-translated. I preferred the second variant.

3. I know, I know. I will change this to bagatur. Horseman doesn’t looks good as unique unit.

4. I was thinking to name it Boyar, but it’s not historically right and I didn’t remember the real name. To name it Boyar is the same as to name the Infantry Minister.

5. Thanks. I didn’t doubt about Asparuh. He doesn’t need another art. When I first made the mod there was only one leader and one unique unit because they fit perfectly. But he’s more aggressive and doesn’t fit my needs for a leader. I liked to play more with the other leaders and units, but they didn’t have the arts. I’m not an art person and probably will not make any art mods myself, but if somebody send me the art I can implement.

6. it’s a good idea. But historically he should have good attacking bonus also. Why you need to defend the forest?

7. The Partizans were communists with guns. Their main reasons to exist were to sabotage. They fought just sporadically. That’s what the History said. If they are too powerful, I can make them less powerfull or more expensive, but it wouldn’t be right to remove their main abilities. Without them, they are just regular infantry. May be I can remove ‘steal plans’ and ‘investigate’ if nobody likes them, but I’m positive about sabotage.

8. I’m not an art person and probably will not make any art mods myself, but if somebody sends me the art I can implement

I beg your pardon, i should have googled it before even typing one word..
Just asked around on my hub and some ppl said it means what i thought it does, turns out it doesnt... My bad.. ;)

Keep up the good work! :beer:

don't worry, I'll change it to Bagatur anyway :beer: :beer: :beer:

good.call me (nako at nako dot us ) if you need a web page/hosting for this mod.

Anybody to help me with the unique unit's balance? What they are supposed to do to be UNIQUE and balanced?
Also I had problems with implementing the flag. It's simple white-green-red stripes. Another ancient version is yellow lion on white bg. It worked in Civilopedia, but when I tried to replace as Civilization flag it was either completely black or completely white. I know it's something with "alpha channel", but I don't have Photoshop to fix it.

Here is the mod with a good flag
change zip to rar and install it

I am sorry ,but i dont like.This is unforgivable,we dont have nothing commonly with Russia.Our lenguage is completely diferent from russian lenguage.Its annoying to hear russian speach on the place of bulgarian.Its the sam like turkish on the place of english.The capital in modern ages is not Pliska, its Sofia.So if you make a bulgarian nation make the important things first PLEASE.But i appreciate that you have choosen to make Bulgarian nation.

If you don't like it why you didn't create a better mod? I wanted to play as Bulgarian, so I created a mod. Because nobody did Bulgarian mod before I posted this to the forum. I don't hold any royalties or licenses, so you're free to create a better mod.

Our lenguage is completely diferent from russian lenguage.

First, on English is called language, not lenguage and second, no it's not COMPLETELY different. The bulgarian belongs to the group of slavic languages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_languages. I'm sorry, but the russian is the only slavic language in the game and until Firaxis release SDK I can't change it to Bulgarian. If you don't like Russia or russians it's your personal problem.

The capital in modern ages is not Pliska, its Sofia

Yes it is. But the game starts in ancient era when the FIRST capital was Pliska. If you don't like Pliska you can rename it to Sofia in the game or you can build a palace in Sofia to make it capital. I didn't choose the capital, Khan Asparuh did.

do you plan to make leaderheads for your mod?

"Khan Asparuh"'s face is exactly the same as Chenghiz Khan's since nobody knows how he looked. "Simeon" is close enough, I just have to replace the background. I would like to replace "Todor Zhivkov" completely when I have a time. Also I will replace the russian language with english and probably will replace the "Boyar" unit with something else.

While you're at it, why not add a special invisible unit that can travel through time and has infinity ammunition for its high yield nuclear bazooka ?:lol: :lol: :lol:

That's right , nobody can combat it , only spies can see it , but they can't attack it.

1. If you read the history you should know that Bulgaria as a civilization was formed at 681 A.D. as a mix of proto-Bulgars and Slavs in proportion about 1:10. When proto-Bulgars were warriors and they definitely were hunters, the Slavs were peasants mostly. Does this make sense now?


You have to change your history source coz this "1:10" is a lil bit :crazyeye: And this "proto-Bulgars " is :mischief: too ;) I think that you read quite strange books ;) But :goodjob: for the mod :D


Аnd one more thing - hi is right :p
:lol: :lol: :lol:

That's right , nobody can combat it , only spies can see it , but they can't attack it.

Is this completed? :)

Hi hi... Here comes I... I stole my nick from one of the Bulgarian leaders in CIV! Great!

Nice work, SvetG :D . I haven't tested it yet but wondered. Does this mean that every leader has it's personal UU?

Will try it soon. Cheers.

EDIT: Actually, remplacing the infantry with the partizanin seems a bit tough for me, he's at strength 10... So you'll lack defense for quite a while... You'll be forced to keep a lot of rifles. I would do it with the grenadier perhaps... Have to playtest this.

Does this mean that every leader has it's personal UU?

That was my idea originally, but it's not supported by the game. When you play with one of the leaders you have all three units.

That's right , nobody can combat it , only spies can see it , but they can't attack it.

Actually, I tried the "Partizanin" just once and it's disappointing to loose the unit trying to spy in the city. The other units are not really unique. The Konnik is exactly the same as Mongol Keshik and Boyar is Knight with different name.

I did the mod a couple days after the game was available, when I didn't play yet. Probably it's not a good idea and have to be changed. At this time I wanted to create some UNIQUE unit, possibly based on reality.
I asked you, guys what should be done and what special units and leaders YOU want, so I can make it. I expected some discussion like in the other mod threads. This didn't happened. The answers was "Great, I like it" and "Bad, I don't like it", "Why X is Y" , not what I expected - "Let's WE make a special unit XXX with power YYY and..." Until WE, the Bulgarian mod players, decide what should be the mod and why, I'm not changing anything.

Actually, replacing the infantry with the partizanin seems a bit tough for me, he's at strength 10... So you'll lack defense for quite a while... You'll be forced to keep a lot of rifles. I would do it with the grenadier perhaps...

I changed the strength to 10 to compensate for invisibility. I believe the real partizans were less powerful than regular army and more invisible, so their tactic was hide, fight and run. I'm not sure is this playable or not. I didn't play with this unit a lot. The "Boyar" is not good for me too, because I preffer to wait a little more and have some gun units instead. So, what is your preference?

You have to change your history source coz this "1:10" is a lil bit And this "proto-Bulgars " is too I think that you read quite strange books

The History is not a book, but bunch of facts that everybody can interpret and nobody knows the Truth for sure.
This was my answer why I selected hunting and agriculture as starting technologies. The facts I know about are that Proto-Bulgars were nomads and hunters and Slavs were peasants. They formed together the Bulgarian civilization. That's why I named the first Bulgarians Proto-Bulgars. Maybe Bulgars is a better term.

Some of my strange books: http://www.digsys.bg/books/history/, http://encyclopedia.com/html/section/bulgaria_history.asp

About the proportion 1:10 it's not true of course, but since nobody knows the true proportion, even Zuberbuler, I just made a guess. Maybe it was 1:100 or 1:20 or 1:3.



A quote from the history books: Khan Asparouh's Bulgaro-Turks had united with the Seven Slav tribes

So, The bulgarian tribe was one, the Slavs tribes were seven and there were some Thracians and other tribes, so 1:10 is close enough.

For sure the Slavs were a lot more than Bulgars. The facts is - they assimilated the culture and the language of the Bulgars during the years. This is possible only when they are a lot more. Something similar happened when Mongols conquered China. They were assimilated too by the chinese.

btw, Zuberbuler - What is your history source, what is the difference and why do you think it's better than my source? I'd like to learn something new.

I don't know from where is these qoute 'bulgaro-turks' but it craps. The Bulgarinas come from Pamir and they are Aryans.

And actually the Bulgarians assimilated the slavs, i mean culture and customs. Our customs now, are the Bulgarian ones not the slav.

And that the slav tribes were 7 and the bulgarian tribe(actualy it was not a tribe) was one, doesn't mean that the slavs were more. I mean that every tribe has different numbers. And the slavs didn't assimilated the Bulgarians. There is research on genetic material from Bulgarians, and they show that we are much closer to the 'proto' Bulgarinas, than the Slavs.

p.s. I think that this disscusion is better for the history section ;)

The quote is from here http://www.digsys.bg/books/history/year-681.html . I don't agree too, but I can't change a quote.

And actually the Bulgarians assimilated the slavs, i mean culture and customs. Our customs now, are the Bulgarian ones not the slav.

Which customs are bulgarian? Christmas? 1st of May :lol: And why all bulgarians speak slavic language when they assimilated Slavs?

There is research on genetic material from Bulgarians, and they show that we are much closer to the 'proto' Bulgarinas, than the Slavs.

I can say that somewhere is research on Slavs that say they are much closer to Arcturians than everybody else :lol: Who made the research? Where they got clean Proto-Bulgarians genes to compare with? Time traveliing?

About the Bulgarian "tribe", you're right it was not a tribe, but 1/5 of it. And the original Bulgarian tribe was not very big because they can't fight for their land to Hasars, but prefered to run away, divided by 5 groups.

I have a link from a respected source that says:

The Bulgars were later assimilated by the Slavs, who outnumbered them, but their name was retained.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarians

What do you have, fing0lfin?

As i see you don't get it :( First Christmas and 1 May aren't cultural customs. One is Christian celebration, other is communist one. I will tell you some customs- martenici, nestinarstvo, kukerstvo. The language was made to unite the country and actually isn't slavic.

Yes it wasn't tribe, it was much more than a tribe. And actually the Bulgarians weren't small numbers. They had powerfull country before the dead of Khan Kubrat(that's why it was called Great Bulgaria from the Byzantians). And this country wasn't formed only from one tribe. About the pure Bulgarian genes, i will say only Volga Bulgarians.

I have historical books, much more serious than some wiki artice IMO.

I'm no expert on Bulgaria , but as for speaking a slavic language , that's definitely true. I met a waitress at a Balkan restaurant the other night which claimed to be from Bulgaria. In addition to having a slavic name , she understood what she called "Yugoslavian" (Serbo-Croatian) because it was very similar to her language.

You don't get the point. These languages, now called slavic weren't talked by the slavs. Especially the Bulgarian was made to unity the country, it was not a natural slavic language.

I will tell you some customs- martenici, nestinarstvo, kukerstvo.

According to this site http://www.spellintime.fsnet.co.uk/Folklore.htm martenici is Bulgar custom, Kukeri and Nestinarstvo are Thracian and Koleda (Christmas) is Slavic. You can't be maximalist to think that assimilation is only total and assimilate everything. There should be something left from every culture.

The language was made to unite the country and actually isn't slavic.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

How can you claim this without any evidences? Everybody knows that the Bulgarian belongs to the group of South Slavic languages.

I can imagine how the Bulgarian Khan :king: around 7th-9th Century is telling to the people:
Guys, we conquered those Slavs years ago, because we are many and they are not, but from now on we have to create a new language to unite the country. It will not be Slavic of course. Just the Grammar and the Words will be Slavic. The rest (i.e. the name) will be Bulgarian :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

About the pure Bulgarian genes, i will say only Volga Bulgarians.

And you claim that they are PURE Bulgarians when you said that Great Bulgaria was not only one tribe. And they didn't mix at all for the last 1,500 years! :crazyeye: I'd say there are mixed with East Slavs and Mongols mostly.

I have historical books, much more serious than some wiki artice IMO.

...and they are...? Why they are not popular then?

Martenici is Bulgarian custom. Kukeri and nestinarstvo, too. How can i convince you that they are ? May be we should search for materials in I-net, and who finds more, supporting his oppinion win:crazyeye: I can explain what are these customs. They are all Bulgarian. Koleda is the Bulgarian word for Christmas. And how can be Koleda slavic custom, when it's a Christian one ??!?! May be only the slavs celebrate christmas. The whole world celebrate a slavic custom :crazyeye: :mischief: :rolleyes: Actually i am wondereing, how can such crappy matterials, like this which you qoute, exsists.


I don't find anything fun in this. There are many evindaces, just you don't know them. There are many Bulgarian words in the language. And in the Bulgarian Cyrilic, some specific protobulgarian sounds were added.
And actually the Bulgarians didn't conqered the slavs, they united.

About the books, if you want i can give you names and authors, but i doubd you will find them. And when something is popular, is that mean it is true ? In the ancient times it was popular that the earth was flat... And actually history rest upon facts, not popularity.
And that Wikipedia is popular, doesn't make the articles in it good.

So is Todor Zhivkov still popular among mainstream Bulgarians enough to make him one of the three leaders in this mod?

So is Todor Zhivkov still popular among mainstream Bulgarians enough to make him one of the three leaders in this mod?

It depends. For some people he's popular, for some he is not. i don't like him, personally. If I wanted to create all leaders only from the popular people, these would be the last three bulgarian leaders, because they are familiar to the current generation and of course they were slected by the majority to be their leaders.

The Bulgarian Civilization exists for more than 1300 years and is divided by three Kingdoms. I wanted to have a leader for every Kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bulgarian_monarchs

The First Bulgarian Kingdom begins with Khan Asparuh (681) and ends with Tzar Samuil (1018). The most notable leaders were Khan Asparuh, Tzar Simeon and Knyaz Boris. I selected Khan Asparuh, because I can use Chenghiz Khan art and because he is the founder, of course.

The Second Bulgarian Kingdom begins with Ivan-Asen at 1186 and ends, as you know :cry: , with Tzar Shishman at 1393. My favorite for this period was Kaloyan, but I decided to use Tzar Simeon instead. He was the most succesful bulgarian leader ever and I can't just skip it.

The Third Bulgarian Kingdom begins with Alexander of Battenberg (1879) . The first Tzars were Germans, so I didn't want to select them as leaders. From the rest only Todor Zhivkov ruled more than ten years. Actually 33 years from the total of 126 years for this period! Not bad at all. So he was the logical choice. I don't like him too, but for good or bad he is the most notable leader for this period.

Koleda is the Bulgarian word for Christmas. And how can be Koleda slavic custom, when it's a Christian one ??!?! May be only the slavs celebrate christmas. The whole world celebrate a slavic custom

This is a quote from the site above:

Koleda This winter solstice festival, named after Kolyada, the Slavic god of winter, is known in Britain as Christmas. At this time, groups of young men called Koledari go from house to house singing special ritual songs for different members of the family. Many of these songs are wonderful short stories with a strong mythological content.

As you know the Christianity is known for its intolerance to other religions and customs. So, after Bulgarians became Christians they used the Christmas date to celebrate Koleda. Later, in the Communist era we used New Year's Holiday to celebrate the same thing. After 1989 when the Christianity was fashionable again, Koleda was celebrated at Christmas date again. In the other countries Christmas is celebrated as pure Christian holiday with pictures of Jesus birth. In Bulgaria this is celebrated with Koledari, Survakari...you know that if you are Bulgarian.

fing0lfin, I'm not going to argue with you anymore. It's useless. I'm Bulgarian, but I'm not a PURE Bulgarian, since there is not a pure nationality in the world anymore, except nationalists like you and...you know who else.

I don't care where Bulgarians came from and who assimilated who. All I know for sure is that I were born in the country with name Bulgaria from the parents that called themselves Bulgarians and all my Grand-parents I know about were Bulgarians. Everything else I learned from the books and other sources, but I didn't witnessed, except the time when I lived. And even for that time I know about two different versions of the History. What's happened 1300 ago and since is manipulated by the historians and politics at their interests. As you know - "History Is Written By The Winners."
Maybe your version of the history is true, maybe main, maybe something in between or something completely different. I don't know and I don't care. That's why I'm stucked to the most popular version.

If you want to discuss this further you can try some offtopic thread. This thread is deducated for the Bulgarian mod for Civilization IV. If you have some questions or proposals for the mod I'll be glad to discuss.

Meh, Todor was evil and corrupt, but i guess we can say the same for many rulers in general. I'm not against having notorious leaders.

In the beging i said that this is not the right place for such disscussion. I am not agree with you about many points, but i think we should realy stop discussing it here.

Do you live in Bulgaria ? Do you know Bulgarian ? Знаеш ли Български?

And about the proposoals..i have one ;)
I think the a good UU for the period of the end of 19 to the middle of 20 century will be the Bulgarian infantry. I think it should be stronger than a normal infantry, but not too much. Also it should be cheap. The Bulgarian army was full of volunteers and mobilzed men. Also it might have good speed, or just every squere as road squere. The Bulgarian infantry had proved that it can march over great distances. For example in the Serbo-Bulgarian war of 1885, the Bulgarin soldiers marched 100 km without stop, and then they immediately attacked the enemy.

Ah...and one suggestion about the leaders. May be you should replace T. Jivkov with Stefan Stambolov ;)

Thank you for the proposal. As I said earlier I made a three UU, but now I want to limit that to one.

I had a hard time deciding which UU is really unique for Bulgaria and playable at the same time. So, the current units are:

Konnik (replaces Horse archer)
(uses Mongol keshik art)
- 50 cost
- Attack and defense same as Mongol keshik
- Movement: 2
- Power: 6

Boyar (replaces Knight)
(uses Knight art)
- 60 cost
- Attack and defense same as Knight
- Movement: 2
- Power: 6

Partizanin (replaces Infantry)
(uses Infantry art)
- 140 cost
- Attack and defense same as Infantry
- Movement: 1
- Power: 10
- Invisible, can sabotage and destroy

..and the new proposals are:

Bulgarian Infantry
(uses Infantry art)
- 100 cost
- Attack and defense same as Infantry
- Movement: 2
- Power: 22

Which one is the best and deserve to be a Bulgarian UU? All changes to the names, values, etc are welcome to discussion as well as new proposals.

About the leaders, there is no limit as far as I know, so the current leaders will be kept. I welcome the addition of new leaders.

The current leaders are:

Khan Asparuh (Aggressive, Expansive) favors Vassalage
(currently using Gehghis Khan leaderhead)

Tzar Simeon Veliki (Philosophical, Creative) favors Hereditary Rule
(currently using Peter leaderhead)

Todor Zhivkov (Industrious, Organized) favors State property
(currently using Roosevelt leaderhead)

The new proposals are:

Khan Krum (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)

Knyaz Boris (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)

Tzar Samuil (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)

Tzar Kaloyan (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)

Tzar Ivan-Asen II (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)

Ivailo the Swineherd (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)

Ivan Shishman (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)

Stefan Stambolov (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)

Zhelyu Zhelev (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)


All changes to the new leaders are welcome. I'm not going to change the leaderheads for now, first because I don't have enough time and second this will make the mod too heavy in size and this, possibly will prevent other modders to include it in their Supermods.

I think that the UU should be konnik. And here are my reasons ;) :
First i think, it should be a unit from the middleages, not a modern one. Simply because then Bulgaria was in its peak.
So i have to choose betwwen Boyar and Konnik.. I choose konnik, becasue boyar is not excactly a military unit. It's administrative, too. A cheaf of a castle or land area...
And the other reason is that the Bulgarians were famous with their formidable horseriders.

I like Konnik too, but there is a small problem. Currently it's exactly the same as Mongol Keshik. I'd like to make it unique somehow. What changes would make it unique and not overpowered but still playable and preffered?

I can't help with this :) I haven't really played civ4...

I guess this discussion is dead, but how about increased withdrawal chance instead of first strike/ignore terrain? Fits historically, as well ;) .

I am sorry ,but i dont like.This is unforgivable,we dont have nothing commonly with Russia.Our lenguage is completely diferent from russian lenguage.Its annoying to hear russian speach on the place of bulgarian.Its the sam like turkish on the place of english.The capital in modern ages is not Pliska, its Sofia.So if you make a bulgarian nation make the important things first PLEASE.But i appreciate that you have choosen to make Bulgarian nation.
You are not right we are slavs as well as the russians.And aur lenguage is from the same group the "slavian" group.So the russian is the closest lenguage to the bulgarian in civ4.

i dont know if you're still working on this mod but
first of all great work, the leaders are really nicely thought out and for those criticizing zhivkov, he is a good choice since he ruled bulgaria for almost 40 years which is a great amount of time for anyone that wasnt a monarch and ruled by a "divine right"
as for the UU konnik is good and all but it really is very similar to the mongol UU, so how about you make the UU a simple bomber, we were the first to use aerial bombardment in warfare just before WW1 i think. its just a proposal, but otherwise use the konnik, but the fact that it is invisible and only spies can see make it invincible and so kinda unbalance the game completely

keep up the good work

I don't know from where is these qoute 'bulgaro-turks' but it craps.

Lol.. Sorry, couldn't resist myself when I read that..

I'm no expert on Bulgaria , but as for speaking a slavic language , that's definitely true. I met a waitress at a Balkan restaurant the other night which claimed to be from Bulgaria. In addition to having a slavic name , she understood what she called "Yugoslavian" (Serbo-Croatian) because it was very similar to her language.

In a sense you're right. The cyrillic alphabet was developed by two Macedonian saints, Cyril & Methodius, roughly around 10th-12th century AD. The cyrillic alphabet was then adopted and made the official alphabet by many slav-dominated states such as Russia, the Ukraine, Serbia and Bosnia-Herzegovina (partly official), Bulgaria, Macedonia and so on. Over time each state added and discarded certain letters from the alphabet and "customised" it for themselves..

Russians can understand Bulgarians (mostly), Serbians can understand Macedonians (mostly), but they are not alike one another. The ties between the cyrillic-speaking countries are identical to latin-based speaking countries such as French to English or German to English. The difference is the cyrillic-speaking languages are far more identical to one another but aren't the same..

You can probably understand roughly 25-40% of what a German or Italian person is saying to you, just because both of your languages have roots in the old Latin text. Of course all western-European languages have altered and further branched off from one another but there's still similarities. But when it comes to Bulgarian compared to Serbian let's say, the comparison is more around 70-85%. Its the same thing as Latin-languages, they're just closer to one another in similarity..

It's not a slavic language. Slavs are the main ethnic group that speak the cyrillic language..

You are not right we are slavs as well as the russians.And aur lenguage is from the same group the "slavian" group.So the russian is the closest lenguage to the bulgarian in civ4.

True. Russian is the closest you'll get to Bulgarian in the game. Just go with it.. Or make the Bulgarian voice-overs yourself :p..

Lol.. Sorry, couldn't resist myself when I read that..



In a sense you're right. The cyrillic alphabet was developed by two Macedonian saints, Cyril & Methodius, roughly around 10th-12th century AD. The cyrillic alphabet was then adopted and made the official alphabet by many slav-dominated states such as Russia, the Ukraine, Serbia and Bosnia-Herzegovina (partly official), Bulgaria, Macedonia and so on. Over time each state added and discarded certain letters from the alphabet and "customised" it for themselves..

Russians can understand Bulgarians (mostly), Serbians can understand Macedonians (mostly), but they are not alike one another. The ties between the cyrillic-speaking countries are identical to latin-based speaking countries such as French to English or German to English. The difference is the cyrillic-speaking languages are far more identical to one another but aren't the same..

You can probably understand roughly 25-40% of what a German or Italian person is saying to you, just because both of your languages have roots in the old Latin text. Of course all western-European languages have altered and further branched off from one another but there's still similarities. But when it comes to Bulgarian compared to Serbian let's say, the comparison is more around 70-85%. Its the same thing as Latin-languages, they're just closer to one another in similarity..

It's not a slavic language. Slavs are the main ethnic group that speak the cyrillic language..



True. Russian is the closest you'll get to Bulgarian in the game. Just go with it.. Or make the Bulgarian voice-overs yourself :p..

Hm..I can't agree with you on some points.
First what do you mean by Macadonian saints ? I really can't get it. Explain please.
Second, the cyrillic alphabet was developed in 9th centuryAD. And it was not developed by Cyril and Methodius, it was developed by one of their Bulgarian students, Klement of Ohrid..Cyril & Methodius developed the glagolic alphabet.(which was improved and adapted by Klement of Ohrid, and wass called Cyrilic in the name of Saint Cyril.)


And there is no such thing as cyrilic language. It's an alphaped, a graphical system(the cyrilic), not a language.

why is it so complicated to get?
just put the thing in a .zip fiolder...

Hm..I can't agree with you on some points.
First what do you mean by Macadonian saints ? I really can't get it. Explain please.
Second, the cyrillic alphabet was developed in 9th centuryAD. And it was not developed by Cyril and Methodius, it was developed by one of their Bulgarian students, Klement of Ohrid..Cyril & Methodius developed the glagolic alphabet.(which was improved and adapted by Klement of Ohrid, and wass called Cyrilic in the name of Saint Cyril.)


And there is no such thing as cyrilic language. It's an alphaped, a graphical system(the cyrilic), not a language.

They were Macedonian saints in the sense that they were ethnic Macedonians who were given the title saints (I dont have a very extensive knowledge on Cyril & Methodius or their student Klement, but I think I can be credited with getting the basic storyline that the roots of the Cyrillic alphabet came from these three characters)..

And I wasnt so sure what time period they developed the alphabet which is why I was sketchy when naming the time period. Thanks for clearing that up for me..

And yes, it's not really a cyrillic-language. I should correct myself there. I started dosing off when I wrote all that down, I wasn't paying much attention..

Hm i see that you have read Macadonian propaganda.
Cyril & Methodius were not ethnic Macedonians. Actually there is no such thing as Macadonian ethnic(not talking about the ancient Macadonians).
Cyril & Methodius were Byzantine. They were born in Thessalonica.

Btw, can you give me the source of your information? From where you have read all this things ?

Hm i see that you have read Macadonian propaganda.
Cyril & Methodius were not ethnic Macedonians. Actually there is no such thing as Macadonian ethnic(not talking about the ancient Macadonians).
Cyril & Methodius were Byzantine. They were born in Thessalonica.

Btw, can you give me the source of your information? From where you have read all this things ?

Id disagree with you on your theory that there are no ethnic Macedonians, but I do remember that you're Bulgarian and I know the claims they have over todays modern-Macedonian population. But I for one do not want to get into any political debate on this forum and especially not one relating to the balkans as it would be nothing but endless see-saw chatter that will get us no where but arguing with one another. You have your opinions, I have mine, and I advise it would be best if we don't let these views start a conflict between us. Political debating is not going to achieve anything for either of us..

Oh, and Thessalonica was within the province of Macedonia at the time. But again, I dont want to get into another pointless debate..

My source of information comes from a variety of school text books, historical books that I've skimmed through in the library during a spare minute or two that I have and wikipedia. It's just something that I do whenever I have spare time and fancy reading through a historical event or two so I can't say my information relies primarily on one source..

I agree that this is not the place for political debates. I am not starting an argument about the question.

Oh, and Thessalonica was within the province of Macedonia at the time.

That's why asked you to clear what you meant by Macadonian saints. You said Macadonian ethnicy.Thessalonica beeing in Macadonia province doesn't make the people who live there Macadonians by ethnic. The people who live in Thrace are not Thracians, right ? And the Cyrilus and Metodius are Greeks, by ethnic.(check in wiki if you want) ;).

I want to ask you something. It's not political, i don't want to discus the present situation of Macadonia. Just want to ask one historical question.
Have you read about Macadonian ethnicy or nation in sourse writen before 1944 ?

I agree that this is not the place for political debates. I am not starting an argument about the question.

That's why asked you to clear what you meant by Macadonian saints. You said Macadonian ethnicy.Thessalonica beeing in Macadonia province doesn't make the people who live there Macadonians by ethnic. The people who live in Thrace are not Thracians, right ? And the Cyrilus and Metodius are Greeks, by ethnic.(check in wiki if you want) ;).

I want to ask you something. It's not political, i don't want to discus the present situation of Macadonia. Just want to ask one historical question.
Have you read about Macadonian ethnicy or nation in sourse writen before 1944 ?

You cant assume wikipedia to be a reliable source. Then again you cant assume any source on the internet to be reliable. Lets not forget that wikipedia can be openly edited by anyone with internet access, and the people who constructed those articles could be anywhere from freshman college student to a professional historian. Every source you will ever encounter in your life (written source) will be biased. It's only a matter of how biased it is..

I said that they were Macedonian because Thessalonica was a city in the ancient Macedon kingdom. And its true you cant call them Macedonians just because they were born in Thessalonica, but Ive looked them up on wikipedia just as you said and so far its telling me their parents were Thessalonicans too, which one can probably assume that yes they were Macedonians..

"Their father, Leon, was a military officer in the thema of Thessaloniki and their mother his wife Maria." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodius_and_Cyril%2C_Saints

You can argue with me that ancient Macedonians are Greek (or Bulgarian) and not a separate ethnicity, but we both know that'll go on for an eternity..

And in response to your question about Macedonian ethnicity and such before 1944. Yes I have. I have also read about the division of Macedonian territory between Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia and Albania and of the denationalising done by both Greeks and Bulgarians during that time period..

In fact next time I'll remember to jot down the source where I read this information and regurgitate for you should I come across it again. It's a promise..

I see that you can't understand me.
As far as i remember you said that they were Macadonian because of their etnicy. And i don't see what is the relation with the ancient Macadonian kingdom. It was centuries before Cyrilus and Metodius.
And i really can't get why they are Macadonians, when theit parents are from Thessalonicane :confused:
Cyrilus and Metodius were Greeks. There are tons of researches about that. You can read that they are Greeks in each source.

You can argue with me that ancient Macedonians are Greek (or Bulgarian) and not a separate ethnicity, but we both know that'll go on for an eternity..
Have i ever claimed something about the ancient Macadonians ?:confused:
Do you make difference between the ancient Macadonians and the curent population of Macadonia ?

And in response to your question about Macedonian ethnicity and such before 1944. Yes I have.....
You have not understood me again. May be it's because of my English...
I am asking you, if you have read somethin for the macadonians(not the ancient) written before 1944. For example some medieval chronicle about them ? And not about the region called Macadonia. For Macadonian ethnicy and nation.
I have also read about the division of Macedonian territory between Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia and Albania and of the denationalising done by both Greeks and Bulgarians during that time period..


This thing is writen after 1944 right ? I gues this is about the peroid of the Balkan wars, and ww1 ?

In fact next time I'll remember to jot down the source where I read this information and regurgitate for you should I come across it again. It's a promise..
I am looking forward to it.

My bulgarian comrade here is right.Kiril i Metodi are greek,and they have not invented cyric.The students did when they came in to Bulgaria,after the dead of their teachers.Kniaz Boris greed them and give them the chance to work for bulgarian interests,creating the alphabet that can be easy to learn and serve as a bulgarian alphabet.It is indeed based on the Kiril and Metodi alphabet, but its an improved a lot.
As for macedonians its realy shame thet you belive your goverment's crap!There are still many macedonians who are afraid to call themselves bulgarians thanks to your goverment's politic.And your history books,try to read something from a difrent sorce (not bulgarian if you dont belive them ) and see what the rest of the world historians think about the "macedonian nation".

Hey, guys, Chill Out!

I agree, there should be some historical/political discussion, because this mod is supposed to represents the Bulgarian spirit, playing civ IV, but Cyryl/Methodius/Klement have nothing to do with this.
I agree that the Russian is not a good choice, but at this time it was the closest sounding to Bulgarian language available in the game. Recording Bulgarian phrases (by myself) sounds horrible to me (literally and figuratively) as I'm not a radio star or Hollywood actor :rolleyes:
I didn't have much time recently, even to play CIVIV. However, I installed Warlords yesterday and I'm thinking to update the mod again.

I think, I'm done with the leaders. The people I chose, played a big role in Bulgarian history, However, I'm open to add new ones by demand. They don't have to be Kings or Tzars :king: . Levski and Ivailo are good choices too.
The picture and the name of the leader are one of the easiest things to implement. The hardest part is to describe the charisma of the leader with traits and favorite civics available in the game.

I'm not sure for the unique unit too. My first version included three UU, each represents one of the three Bulgarian Kingdoms. Adding my mod to the bigger mods as superciv by Lankou required only one UU, so for now I'm stucked to Konnik (Bulgarian Horseman). I don't know yet how to make it unique for the game and balanced (not over- or under-powered).

I'll appreciate any help, especially for the graphic/sound part. The guy who didn't like Russian in the game, as completely different, can send me recorded phrases on Bulgarian :D .

Let's make the mod together - playable, enjoyable and Bulgarian :) .

I would be glad to help but i can't :( I can only give you historical infotmation. I don't have civ4 and i have never played it :(

O.K., ...historical information, you said :old: .

One question with enhanced difficulty:
"What is the single most unique and famous Bulgarian military unit for the history of Bulgaria (1300+ years :old:) and what special abilities makes it sо unique among the other similar warriors?

tic-tac-tic-tac...:crazyeye: :confused: "Ами сега?".....

Hey, guys, Chill Out!

I agree, there should be some historical/political discussion, because this mod is supposed to represents the Bulgarian spirit, playing civ IV, but Cyryl/Methodius/Klement have nothing to do with this.
I agree that the Russian is not a good choice, but at this time it was the closest sounding to Bulgarian language available in the game. Recording Bulgarian phrases (by myself) sounds horrible to me (literally and figuratively) as I'm not a radio star or Hollywood actor :rolleyes:
I didn't have much time recently, even to play CIVIV. However, I installed Warlords yesterday and I'm thinking to update the mod again.

I think, I'm done with the leaders. The people I chose, played a big role in Bulgarian history, However, I'm open to add new ones by demand. They don't have to be Kings or Tzars :king: . Levski and Ivailo are good choices too.
The picture and the name of the leader are one of the easiest things to implement. The hardest part is to describe the charisma of the leader with traits and favorite civics available in the game.

I'm not sure for the unique unit too. My first version included three UU, each represents one of the three Bulgarian Kingdoms. Adding my mod to the bigger mods as superciv by Lankou required only one UU, so for now I'm stucked to Konnik (Bulgarian Horseman). I don't know yet how to make it unique for the game and balanced (not over- or under-powered).

I'll appreciate any help, especially for the graphic/sound part. The guy who didn't like Russian in the game, as completely different, can send me recorded phrases on Bulgarian :D .

Let's make the mod together - playable, enjoyable and Bulgarian :) .
Hmm I agree.But i dont know why is the use of russian upsets that guye:shake: Its mot such a big deal that you are using russian.Its probobly the closest to aur langluge,after serbian.Sory for my bad english:p

O.K., ...historical information, you said :old: .

One question with enhanced difficulty:
"What is the single most unique and famous Bulgarian military unit for the history of Bulgaria (1300+ years :old:) and what special abilities makes it sо unique among the other similar warriors?

tic-tac-tic-tac...:crazyeye: :confused: "Ами сега?".....
Yes..a hard question. Hard because this period of 1300 years covers a cuople of different ages,with differen't military units...
But as it was said before i think it should be mounted unit. Horseman, Konnik,Конник или Конница.

The Bulgarians were 'horse people'. Their army was mainly consisred of horsmen. And they were good horsmen because the spent all their lives on and near the horses...but that can be said for every horsmen ;)
The Bulgarian cavalery(конница) had high discipline. Every man had several horses, but he had only one specially trained for war. It was forbiden to do anything else with it.
And now i think here comes the most unique part ;) It's belived that the Bulgarians were the first who brought the stirrups to Europe(стремена). This gave the a couple of advantages in battle. The Bulgarians could shoot with a bow from the back of the horse. Also some other weapons might be used by the horsemen, such as swords. The stirups also incrased the stability consequently and the speed of the rider.

It's belived that the Bulgarians were the first who brought the stirrups to Europe(стремена).

...and they borrowed this from Mongol Keshiks. I think this is true for the proto-bulgarian Asparuh's army. Later, the horsemen were more like heavy cavalry. Look here (http://liternet.bg/publish8/ivelin_ivanov/vyprosa.htm)

...част от прабългарската конница е била изцяло тежко въоръжена и е представлявала основно ударно ядро, чиято цел е била мощен фронтален или флангов удар срещу добре въоръжена пехота или конница в открито сражение...

Also some other weapons might be used by the horsemen, such as swords.

...this makes them heavy cavalry, armed not only with bows, but with swords, shields, spears and maces....

I don't have civ4 and i have never played it

I think this forum is like 80-90% playing CivIV and 10-20% history. There are some interesting historical forums you can read: Allempires (http://www.allempires.com/forum/), Balkanium (http://www.balkanium.com/index.php), Boina slava (http://forum.boinaslava.net/index.php?guestlanguageid=1)

...and they borrowed this from Mongol Keshiks. I think this is true for the proto-bulgarian Asparuh's army. Later, the horsemen were more like heavy cavalry. Look here (http://liternet.bg/publish8/ivelin_ivanov/vyprosa.htm)





...this makes them heavy cavalry, armed not only with bows, but with swords, shields, spears and maces....

I think that when the Bulgarians came to Europe there were no mongol keshiks. And i don't say it's Bulgarian invention. It was brouoght to europe by
the Bulgarians.



...част от прабългарската конница е била изцяло тежко въоръжена и е представлявала основно ударно ядро, чиято цел е била мощен фронтален или флангов удар срещу добре въоръжена пехота или конница в открито сражение...
Абсолютно съглаесн съм. Пример за това е битката при Ахелой 917.

I think this forum is like 80-90% playing CivIV and 10-20% history. There are some interesting historical forums you can read: Allempires (http://www.allempires.com/forum/), Balkanium (http://www.balkanium.com/index.php), Boina slava (http://forum.boinaslava.net/index.php?guestlanguageid=1)

I actually play civII(scenarios only) :)
By the way thank you for the links. I know boina slava and i write from time to time there ;) I will gladly check the other two links :)

:confused: O.K., ...historical information, you said :old: .

One question with enhanced difficulty:
"What is the single most unique and famous Bulgarian military unit for the history of Bulgaria (1300+ years :old:) and what special abilities makes it sо unique among the other similar warriors?

tic-tac-tic-tac...:crazyeye: :confused: "Ами сега?".....
How about the "bagains",there are the bulgarian ulternative to the western knighs.Or the bulgarian infantry from the Balcan's wars and WWW1.They were very powerfull:ar15: Or aur artilery,bulgarian comanders had invented the "Ognen vall"artilery tactic,there are indeed very powerfull units in aur 1300 years of history,and its hard to choose only one of them.So why there shud be only one unique bulgarian unit?:confused:

I agree about the Bulgarian infantry from the end of 19 and the begingi of the 20 century. I though of it, too. But i think that it should be something which include bigger time period.
The "ognen val" i think was not invented by our comanders. I think it was first used in the Russo-Japanese war, but i am not sure. I think that artilery is not suitable for Bulgarian UU. Yes it was good, but nothing unique...

I agree about the Bulgarian infantry from the end of 19 and the begingi of the 20 century. I though of it, too. But i think that it should be something which include bigger time period.
The "ognen val" i think was not invented by our comanders. I think it was first used in the Russo-Japanese war, but i am not sure. I think that artilery is not suitable for Bulgarian UU. Yes it was good, but nothing unique...
"Ogneniq val" is developed by our military experts and field comanders.I dont know if the russians have invented the tactic but im shure that our comanders had reinvented it for the use in the bulgarian army.And by the way im prety sure that under our use the strategy was most succesful. It is a tactic where the artilery barage is fired close (about 100 meters) from the advancing infantry,destroing the enemy fortifications and military personel, then the infantry kills the remaining enemies and thats how the "val" efect is achieved.I know this becouse my grand grand father served in the artilery when the Odrin stronghold was taken and there this tactic came to use.PS:Bye the way since we are the only one ho still discus this stuf why not rite it cyric?An how about the "bagain" unit?The Japanece-Russian war was moustly fot in sea so we are not talking about the same tactic(i think).

So why there shud be only one unique bulgarian unit?

In my first mod I included three UU, but Lankou did not want to put the mod in Superciv. I liked Superciv and wanted Bulgaria included there, so I sacrificed the other UUs:cry:

"Ogneniq val" is developed by our military experts and field comanders.I dont know if the russians have invented the tactic but im shure that our comanders had reinvented it for the use in the bulgarian army.And by the way im prety sure that under our use the strategy was most succesful. It is a tactic where the artilery barage is fired close (about 100 meters) from the advancing infantry,destroing the enemy fortifications and military personel, then the infantry kills the remaining enemies and thats how the "val" efect is achieved.I know this becouse my grand grand father served in the artilery when the Odrin stronghold was taken and there this tactic came to use.PS:Bye the way since we are the only one ho still discus this stuf why not rite it cyric?An how about the "bagain" unit?The Japanece-Russian war was moustly fot in sea so we are not talking about the same tactic(i think).
Напълно съм съгласен ,че Българската артилерия използва огнения вал през балканската война, и по точно- превземането на Одрин. Дълго време аз също смятах че огнения вал е за пръв път използван тук, но в една форумна дискусия, един от участниците успя да ме убеди че за първи път подобна тактика е използвана в сухопътната фаза на Руско-Японската война. Това разбира се не трябва да омаловажава изобретателността на нашите полеви командири, защото силно се съмнявам, че на тях им е било известно използването на тази тактика през Руско-Японската война.

Напълно съм съгласен ,че Българската артилерия използва огнения вал през балканската война, и по точно- превземането на Одрин. Дълго време аз също смятах че огнения вал е за пръв път използван тук, но в една форумна дискусия, един от участниците успя да ме убеди че за първи път подобна тактика е използвана в сухопътната фаза на Руско-Японската война. Това разбира се не трябва да омаловажава изобретателността на нашите полеви командири, защото силно се съмнявам, че на тях им е било известно използването на тази тактика през Руско-Японската война.
Saglasen sam s teb.Qvno tacticata e vavedena i v dvete armii.Prosto tova e stanalo savsem samostoqtelno i nqma vrazka megdu ruskata upotreba na tacticata i upotrebata i v Balkanskite voini ot nashite komandiri.
SAJALQVAM CE NE IZPOLZVAM KIRILICHA NO KIRILIZATORA MI ZDADE BAGAJA.:D

I just want to comment how sad and tiring I find it to see how every discussion on anything Balkan boils down to petty rivalries, uncompromising arguments and a general lack of mutual respect. Not just this thread and not just this forum, it happens all over the internet.

I find it sad because I have a genuine respect for Balkan people and I've known a lot of great people from there in my life. I also find the region very interesting for its history and culture, not just one country but all of it.

I wish some of you nationalistic posters here could respect the right of outsiders to stay neutral and not bash them into taking a stand in favor of your own nation. All it really achieves is making your own country look bad and leaving people all around the world with a bad taste in their mouth and probably deciding not to visit the Balkans ever if they can avoid it.

For my part I know I want to travel to the Balkans at some point because I believe there's a lot more to it than petty nationalism but I also understand those who're entirely put off by all the flame wars and decide never to visit any Balkan country.

Well, hi everyone. I was surprised to find out there's a Bulgarian civ Mod and after reding all 4 pages of this thread carefully, here are my comments that I hope will be usefull to making the mod better. I'd like to point out also that I'm a big fan of the Civ series, and have played it since the first Civ released ever. So I think that my proposals can be regarded not only as historically correct, but as such that try to keep the balance in the game as well.

Khan Asparuh, Tzar Simeon, Stefan Stambolov - these three should be fine as leaders though I think there could be some editing in their specs and favoured civics. I make my proposals in consideration with new abilities in the Warlords xpPack, and of course on important historical facts, and therefore will appreciate if svetg would like to make the mode for the expansion as well.

Khan Asparuh (Aggressive, Spiritual) favors Vassalage
I'd like Expansive replaced by Spiritual since the so called proto-bulgars were very religious people. The cult to their ultimate god Tangra played a very important role in their life especially when in wartime. I don't think expansive suits well early Bulgaria's not exactly settled way of life. So having a +3 health per city will not be historically correct.
Vassalage is fine as a favoured civic.

Tzar Simeon I (Charismatic, Creative) favors Theocracy
I thought if this combination will be a bit imbalanced, and that's why there is no leader with this abilities in the game, but after giving it a while of thought, I guess it's fine. And it suits Simeon I Veliki's golden age of Bulgarian rule perfectly.
Creative - since this was the time that Bulgaria had the most influence not only on the Balkans but in Europe as well, and to reflect the development of literature in the Empire, which at that times was spread through the hole peninsula plus the Carpati mountins, and had a reach to three seas.
Charismatic - to reflect the development of both army and society.
Favoured civic should be Teocracy, since that was the time when Christianity was finally settled in Bulgaria as a state religion and the pagan cults were almost driven out, the +xp to units bonus also reflects the war policy of Simeon.

Stefan Stambolov (Financial, Industrious) favors Mercantilism
Just one little correction here - favoured civic should be mercantilism, since it perfectly reflects Stambolov's protectionist economic policy, favouring Bulgarian goods in front of foreign.

UU - Bagatur is fine, to replace Horse archer, though it should have bonus against melee units 50% for example, and strength should be lowered in this case to 5 probably to keep balance. It can also have Sentry as a free promotion for history's sake.

Unique building - Now I've thought about this a lot and come with the idea that Bulgaria's unique building would be "Chitalishte" - which combined school, library and theatre into one and is the essence of Bulgarian Rennaisance just before overthrowing the Ottoman rule. It should replace Theatre and should give a free priest.

Well that's it for now I hope I've been helpfull.

п.п @svetg - братле, ако имаш нужда от няква помощ по правенето на тия работи пиши един пърсъснъл месидж и ще ти дам кю или мейл да се разберем - ще се радвам да помогна, но ще трябва да ме въведеш преди това в модмейкинга:D

Woah, nice to see a BG mod:) I've been thinking about seeing BG in CIV IV for a lot of time. :goodjob:

First off, really, the Turko-Mongol origin of the Bulgarians was just communist propaganda.
In the 19th century the most popular theory was that the Bulgarians were Huns (this theory still has some supporters but it contradicts a lot of evidence that the Huns and the Bulgarians were different peoples).

During WW II (and a little before that) Bulgaria was allied with Germany. The propaganda was that the Bulgarians were "Arias". This theory was just propaganda since the "Arias" were just a tribe, which invaded India, established a dynasty there and dissolved. They could've been everything.
But the Bulgarians came from the east, the "Arias" came from the east, so the BG government (lead by Bogdan Filov, a historian) imposed this theory with respect to the alliance with Germany but most of all because Bogdan Filov was a devoted nationalist.

When the communist regime took over in Bulgaria they needed a new theory and they needed it now. So they adopted the theory of some "friendly" Russian historian (without any proof) that the Bulgarians were of Mongolian descent, based on the concept that all horse tribes were Mongolian. :lol:
But in the spirit of the alliance with the USSR, the numbers of the ancient Bulgars miraculously dropped to "almost insignificant" or something, so that the Bulgarians could be presented more akin to the Russians.

This theory was taught in the schools in Bulgaria for over half a century. When you repeat a lie a 100 times, nobody doubts it.

In the last ....hmm, 10-15? years, a Bulgarian historian, Peter Dobrev has been trying to find out the truth about the origin of the ancient Bulgars. The guy has done some serious research, proving that the ancient Bulgars were a celtic horse tribe, caucasean, akin to the ancient Persians. Read some of his books or articles, this is not the place to paste hundreds of pages of theory :) Also, to quote Procopius Caesar (if that's the correct name) "Those people, on this side of the Sea called themselves Cimmerians and later changed their name to Bulgarians."

But Todor Zhivkov???? Well Mao Ze Dong was a surprise too:)

I would suggest: Asparuh (Expansive, Aggressive)
Krum (Aggressive, Imperialistic)
Omurtag (Organized, Industrious)
Boris (Spiritual, Protective)
Simeon (Philosophical, Aggressive)
Kaloyan (Aggressive, Protective)
Stephan Stambolov (Industrious, Organized)


UU - Konnik, the problem is that the Mongolian Keshiks are very close to what it should be so...hmmm, perhaps just a Horse archer with two first strikes (The Bulgarian army had no match), Flanking I (The BG horse archers were known for their lightning speed) and Blitz (The Ancient Bulgarians always fought to their last breath - see Roman and Byzantine historians). If that's too imbalanced, one first strike.

UB - Now this is a tricky one. As far as I get it, each Civ should get a different Building to replace. So, only stuff like hospitals and bunkers are left for the new CIVs.
Bulgaria is not known for it's good health institutes, so I would suggest our UB to be a Bunker, which produces two happy faces (or one if two is imbalanced).

Now I hope this mod runs on warlords:)
Good job, thanx for creating it. Nice to know that Bulgarians play the game:)

In the last ....hmm, 10-15? years, a Bulgarian historian, Peter Dobrev has been trying to find out the truth about the origin of the ancient Bulgars.

Petar Dobrev is not a historian, he is a linguist, and all his evidence is based on linguistic similarities, which is pathetic. Currently, some new evidence has been discovered by real historians, as a team of Ukrainian and Bulgarian archeologists are investigating the remains of the ancient capital Fanagoria.



Now I hope this mod runs on warlords:)
Good job, thanx for creating it. Nice to know that Bulgarians play the game:)

This mod doesn't work for Warlords, and as far as I know svetg has retired from modding, so he won't be doing any updates.

Currently I am working on a Bulgarian Civ mod for Warlords, but I wouldn't go and set a deadline for it since there's a lot of other stuff I'm working on besides this project.
Amra will be releasing his modpack soon, so you'll be able to play bulgarian civ there.
Wyz_sub10 will also be including Bularian civ in his CivGold pack.
Their releases will be ready much sooner than mine, so look for updates coming.

Nice to hear about that:))
What UU and UB are you planning?:) I'm curious, especially about the UB. Imo, there's nothing wrong with two UBs replacing the same non unique building. I think that having so many different buildings makes most of the UBs total waste.
Label me lame but I can't see anything useful about the Mausoleum or any synergy between it and Gandhi or Asoka (And I love playing India). Let alone the Dun and the new Gallic Warriors. I love playing the Celts but I certainly don't do it because of their ultra cool UU or UB. Share your thoughts?:P

What leaders do you plan to implement?:) (You _MUST_ have Kaloyan;)


Petar Dobrev is not a historian, he is a linguist, and all his evidence is based on linguistic similarities, which is pathetic. Currently, some new evidence has been discovered by real historians, as a team of Ukrainian and Bulgarian archeologists are investigating the remains of the ancient capital Fanagoria.


That's not exactly true, the guy is a professor in economic history in the Bulgarian Academy of Science:) (Not that titles matter anyway, it's the person that matters). Btw, you caught me off guard, but isn't Peter Dobrev involved in those excavations in Fanagoria?
Really, man, the Turko-Altaian theory is just propaganda, I've read A LOT about ancient history, particularly about Bulgaria. See it for yourself - just try to find an ancient author who described the Bulgars as a Mongol-type tribe. I couldn't.:) They describe them as a horse tribe. Their clothes and customs looked strange but their complexion wasn't any different than the caucasian type.
Relying on logic without proof is wrong but at the time the Bulgars moved to today's Bulgaria, all the horse tribes coming from the east were Caucasians -huns etc. The mongol and turk tribes came about 6 centuries later.

Sorry for the spam:P I know what it takes to create something, way to go with your project!:) :goodjob:
I wish I could help you. I have no idea how to use Python though :(
:goodjob:

No point in wasteful arguing. I'll be releasing a beta version of my civ mod soon. Stay tuned:)

Nice to hear about that:))
What UU and UB are you planning?:) I'm curious, especially about the UB. Imo, there's nothing wrong with two UBs replacing the same non unique building. I think that having so many different buildings makes most of the UBs total waste.
Label me lame but I can't see anything useful about the Mausoleum or any synergy between it and Gandhi or Asoka (And I love playing India). Let alone the Dun and the new Gallic Warriors. I love playing the Celts but I certainly don't do it because of their ultra cool UU or UB. Share your thoughts?:P

What leaders do you plan to implement?:) (You _MUST_ have Kaloyan;)




That's not exactly true, the guy is a professor in economic history in the Bulgarian Academy of Science:) (Not that titles matter anyway, it's the person that matters). Btw, you caught me off guard, but isn't Peter Dobrev involved in those excavations in Fanagoria?
Really, man, the Turko-Altaian theory is just propaganda, I've read A LOT about ancient history, particularly about Bulgaria. See it for yourself - just try to find an ancient author who described the Bulgars as a Mongol-type tribe. I couldn't.:) They describe them as a horse tribe. Their clothes and customs looked strange but their complexion wasn't any different than the caucasian type.
Relying on logic without proof is wrong but at the time the Bulgars moved to today's Bulgaria, all the horse tribes coming from the east were Caucasians -huns etc. The mongol and turk tribes came about 6 centuries later.

Sorry for the spam:P I know what it takes to create something, way to go with your project!:) :goodjob:
I wish I could help you. I have no idea how to use Python though :(
:goodjob:

Who cares where the protobulgarians came from the important thing is that we have adopted the slavian culture micxed whit a lot of slav.And today we are considering aur self a part of the sout slav group along whit the serb.This man you are refuring to is not a historian at all so his studies abut anciant bulgarians shudnt be taken very seriosly.Have you ever thout that taday there is all so propaganda theaching bulgarians that they infact are nothing near slav that they shoud use latin alphabet and so on....and the teory that Pliska was infact a city that had 200 000 :lol: protobulgarians.This all noncense the important thing is that today we have very litle in comon whit the old bulgars just take a look at the people of Bulgaristan that suposed to be closer to the proto bulgars nothing in comon whit us wen you compare their aperance or their language.But you are free to form your own opinion.I fell my self a lot more like a ortodox slav than a scandinavian,mongol,persian or wat ever.;)

Яко, ама има ли ниакой сценарий с България?

Just one question, which I guess is rather pointless considering a post earlier on this thread with a question for Warlords, but still ... Does this Bulgarian mod with Beyond the Sword and if not, is there a Bulgarian Mod for Beyond the Sword?

Thank you in advance

I have a working mod that adds Bulgarian civ to the game, the only reason I did not release it officially is that I didn't find anyone interested to work on the graphic part. The mod can be reworked for BTS xpansion without any problem. But if there are people who want to help it will be really appreciated, since I don't have a lot of time to work on that lately.

Well, I am certainly intrested in a Bulgarian mode for BTS!! And about helping out, well I am a Computer Engineer by education and calling, and though my specialty is in hardware and networks I am willing to help out with what I can. Tell me what you need help with so I will know if I can help or not