SERBIAN MOD 1.02

DOWNLOAD:
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/Srbija 1.02.rar

Serbian empire:
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/button_zastava.bmp

-Leaders:

1. Stefan Dusan
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/button_dusan.bmp
-Organized
-Spiritual
-favorite civic: Hereditary rule, other features like Cyrus.
1. Karadjordje Petrovic
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/button_karadjordje.bmp
-Militaristic
-Philosophical
-favorite civic: Nationhood, other features like Napoleon.

-Starting techs:
Agriculture, Mysticism.

-Unique Unit:
Hajduk(instead of Musketman)
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/button_hajduk.bmp
-cost:80
-movement:1
-strength:9
-1 first strike
-starts with Guerilla I

http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/hajduk2.JPG

-Diplo music:

early: Balkanika - Hilandar
middle: Mars na Drinu
late: Mars na Drinu (guitar version)

http://www.filegone.com/0in6

__________________________________________________ _______________
Serbian mod 1.01

Serbian empire:

-Leader: Stefan Dusan
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/cardusan_64_BUTTON.JPG
Spiritual, Aggresive.

-Starting techs:
Agriculture, Mysticism.

-Unique Unit:
Hajduk(instead of Musketman)
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/hajduk_scr3.JPG
cost:80
movement:1
strength:9
+20% hills defense
+25% against other gunpowder units.

-Serbian city names.
-Serbian flag(BIG thanx to LAnkou for making this flag dance :) )
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/zastava_srbije2.jpg

-Optional Serbian flag
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/SrbijaCCCC2.JPG
To install 2nd one rename FlagDECAL_Serbia2.dds to FlagDECAL_Serbia.dds and in CIV4ArtDefines_Civilization.xml set <bWhiteFlag> to 0(zero).

-Civilopedia entries for: Serbia, Stefan Dusan, Hajduk(Only in English).

----Download:----
http://www.civilizacija.net/e107_files/downloads/c4-serbianciv101.rar
OR
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/Srbija.rar



If I missed something please let me know.

I'm not at home so i can't install it now, but good going! :goodjob:

I just edited leaderhead, and some less important unit info, still same adress:
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/Srbija.rar

So, I expect your critics.

I just edited leaderhead, and some less important unit info, still same adress:
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/Srbija.zip

So, I expect your critics.
I'll download it tomorrow. i'm currently a bit busy with editting my own civ a bit further (the Dutch one which is in my sig). After that i'll play it for a bit to see what you've done with it ;)

Serbia? Well now this is cool. :) I must play this. Hehe.

Serbia? Well now this is cool. :) I must play this. Hehe.Do you like it? :) ;)

This looks interesting, I'll give it a shot once my copy arives, hopefully on Monday. But why the Hajduk unit? I'd personally go for the Turbofolk Singer unique unit, with a Seka Aleksić sprite.

Also, how bout a Montenegrin civ next? Vladika Njegoš as leader and the Montenegrin Slow Worker as unique unit(just like a normal worker, but with zero movement) ;)

I shall give it a try! Looks nice for sure!

I sure like it and if you make Croatians and Bosnia and Herzegovina, with a balkan map you could make a scenario of the fall of Yugoslavia... hmm that would be interesting and fun to play. :)

Vladika Njegoš as leader and the Montenegrin Slow Worker as unique unit(just like a normal worker, but with zero movement) ;)

Hahah, skoro sam se upišao od smijeha na ovo montenegrin slow worker :lol: LoL

I sure like it and if you make Croatians and Bosnia and Herzegovina, with a balkan map you could make a scenario of the fall of Yugoslavia... hmm that would be interesting and fun to play. :)

Dont worry, I'll make a Croat civ ASAP(hopefully monday if the postman arrives), I got it all figured out, and I'm thinking of Magyar next as the rulers of the seven seas...

I would prefer if we could leave modern history outside civ scenarios, esp. considering what day today is.

And finally, the question of Slovenian and Bosniak civ remains. Janez of Slovenia with the unique Kekec unit(beefed up Scout) and Senad of Bosnia with the unique Mujo i Haso unit(enhanced spy with culture attack)

Also, it might be interesting to merge all the various mods into one Balkans mod.

hej ljudi evo jednog kandidata iz bosne...odlicna ideja za balkan Mod ...mozda bih vam ja mogao pomoci da napravimo i bosance pa ako sta zatreba javite na mail. jebi ga ja tek sad poceo ovo igrat i vjerujte neznam ni koje programe koristite za pravljenje modova al brzo ucim tako da vjerovatno nece biti problema



best regards to all
sorry for not speaking in english...its a story about making a fall of yugoslavia mod

Serbia is done perfectly.The flags,the unit colors,everything.It is:drool:divine:drool: on Blue Marble graphics.I'm Serbian too so i love it.

But why the Hajduk unit? I'd personally go for the Turbofolk Singer unique unit, with a Seka Aleksić sprite.

Also, how bout a Montenegrin civ next? Vladika Njegoš as leader and the Montenegrin Slow Worker as unique unit(just like a normal worker, but with zero movement)

And finally, the question of Slovenian and Bosniak civ remains. Janez of Slovenia with the unique Kekec unit(beefed up Scout) and Senad of Bosnia with the unique Mujo i Haso unit(enhanced spy with culture attack)

Interesting... you figured it all out for all ex-yu countries except Croatia. :rolleyes:

Interesting... you figured it all out for all ex-yu countries except Croatia. :rolleyes:

Like I said, I will do Croatia as soon as I get my copy, I expect it on Monday. And I pretty much have all the material and artwork prepared, so its just a matter of patching it up. Picked the leaders(a historic one and a funny one) and made the artwork already, and picked my unique unit, and will just have to adjust the skin a bit. It will be a stormy one.

here is the .dds i've done for your flag, tell me if it works properly now

EDIT: whoops rename it to .dds and that's ok

here is the .dds i've done for your flag, tell me if it works properly now
Where is it??

rename .zip to .dds like the man told you

Gj man!I started to do it but now when you have done can I continue to work with you?

SERBIAN MOD 1.01 DOWNLOAD (http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/Srbija.zip)

Explanation in the first post!

what are the changes from previous version?

Look at first post below the screenshot.

Gj man!I started to do it but now when you have done can I continue to work with you?Ok, I've sent you a PM.

here is the .dds i've done for your flag, tell me if it works properly now

EDIT: whoops rename it to .dds and that's okI figured out that I have some technical problems about this kind of Flags. It apperas to be totally white(But it also happens when I play American Revolution), so I'll have to try it on some other computer. I'll let you know if its OK. Thank you very much anyway. :goodjob:

Yes, Serbia. Totally needed this. Maybe a Bulgar civ as well?

look at the new civ thread (the sticky one)

Hi!

After instalations of your mod I got a BARBAR civilization with SID MEIER
as animated leader. Is it part of your mod or ist ist only coincidence ????

That is not included in mod.

Hi!

After instalations of your mod I got a BARBAR civilization with SID MEIER
as animated leader. Is it part of your mod or ist ist only coincidence ????I wish it was. That would mean I know how to create real animated leaderheads. ;) How cool that would be :cool:

Unique units deserve unique look:

Serbian Hajduk:
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/hajduk_scr3.JPG

http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/hajduk_scr.JPG

http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/hajduk_scr2.JPG

Get it Here (http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/Srbija102.zip).

Attention! This is only a patch to original version.
Now, http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/Srbija.rar contains this new Hajduk look.

As for slovenian civ... if you are doing it you coud use Milan Kučar for a leader and Slovenian Freedom Fighter as a UU.Expecialy if you will make a fall of Jugoslavija.

Every honour, guys :) Awesome thread. I'll try it first thing tonight...

"Hajduk" as a UU - genius, pure genius (although that turbo folk singer suggestion wasn't too bad...), mind you, I would make that unit have 2 movement points - weren't they known as best guerrila fighters famous for quick hits and quick retreats?

BTW, there is really only one option for Slovenian UU: a special alpine unit "Bojan Križaj"?

Every honour, guys :) Awesome thread. I'll try it first thing tonight...

"Hajduk" as a UU - genius, pure genius (although that turbo folk singer suggestion wasn't too bad...), mind you, I would make that unit have 2 movement points - weren't they known as best guerrila fighters famous for quick hits and quick retreats?Well, I was thinking what do give to Hajduk:

1. movement bonus(but I quit that because hajduks would have the same attributes as French musketeers)
2. some kind of stealing small amount of gold when beating a unit, but I couldnt find the way to do it.
3. less cost
4. hills bonus
5. forests bonus
6. gunpowder bonus

Well thats a lot of options.
My thinking was that I just have to give them some hills bonus, and if I gave them +1 movement too, they would be overpowered, so I chose small gunpowder bonus. I think(and hope) I didnt make a mistake.

Well thats a lot of options.
My thinking was that I just have to give them some hills bonus, and if I gave them +1 movement too, they would be overpowered, so I chose small gunpowder bonus. I think(and hope) I didnt make a mistake.

I think the best way to make a good unique unit is not to mess with its base stats but simply give them improvements that provide the right flavour. If I were you I'd give them Guerilla I&II. That would make them rulers of the hills.

the 4 promotion are too much...
give him 1 (maybe 2)

the 4 promotion are too much...
give him 1 (maybe 2)

It cannot attack, has strength of 1(since it is the weakest unit in game it deserves more promotions to make it interesting), and guerilla and woodsman are not cumulative(either guerilla in hills or woodsman in woods and jungles, or no effect in plains). Plus it can only upgrade to explorer, another unit that cannot attack, and explorer cannot upgrade to any other unit(no mech inf with guerilla I&II and woodsman I&II). This bonus would be great for safe early exploration, but would not imbalance the game afterwards.

"Hajduk" as a UU - genius, pure genius (although that turbo folk singer suggestion wasn't too bad...)
Ok,then let's hear your briliant idea?!What to do you thing is the best UU for Serbia.

I think the best way to make a good unique unit is not to mess with its base stats but simply give them improvements that provide the right flavour. If I were you I'd give them Guerilla I&II. That would make them rulers of the hills.

Good point.
Hajduk should be "the ruler" of the forests an hills.

But he has to have ability to attack and not to recive defance bonus, as they were atacker not defender in the past.

@ Velja
Ma daj promeni mu tu kapu, izgleda k'o šumar iz slovenije... Hajduci su nosili šubare!!

Another sugestion to Velja:

Traits that you gave to Serbian leader are not good at all (specially Spiritual, since Car Dusan was anything else, but spiritual. Agressive is not good as well. Here's what I think: Expansive (He forced Byzantians to withdrow not only by military force but with the wawe of population (Serbian) overtaking the teritories = Cheaper Granaries and lighthouses IIrc)
and Organized (he was a master of state organization since he delt with huge empire and army - and we all know what hepened when he died, empire was too big for his enheritor that simply colapsed.

favours: Heridertary Rules, ofcourse

Please take this as a serious consederation.

Inače je vrlo dobro!

Што се другог, евентуално, вође тиче предлажем ти ако можеш да направиш Оца модерне Српске нације КАРА Ђорђа Петровића.:)

translate

Second leader could be, eventualy, Karageorgie Petrovic.
Traits Agressive & Creative!
Favours:Nationhood

Note: in English the word is "traits", not "threats". ;)

"Threats" are when you threaten someone, i.e., "if you do this, I will kill you."

Good point.
Hajduk should be "the ruler" of the forests an hills.

But he has to have ability to attack and not to recive defance bonus, as they were atacker not defender in the past.Ok, I'll see to change something about that tomorrow.


@ Velja
Ma daj promeni mu tu kapu, izgleda k'o šumar iz slovenije... Hajduci su nosili šubare!!Ne mogu to da promenim, moram da uzmem oblik vec postojece jedinice(french musketeer u ovom slucaju) i mogu samo da promenim skin....

Another sugestion to Velja:

Threats that you gave to Serbian leader are not good at all (specially Spiritual, since Car Dusan was anything else, but spiritual. Agressive is not good as well. Here's what I think: Expansive (He forced Byzantians to withdrow not only by military force but with the wawe of population (Serbian) overtaking the teritories = Cheaper Granaries and lighthouses IIrc)
and Organized (he was a master of state organization since he delt with huge empire and army - and we all know what hepened when he died, empire was too big for his enheritor that simply colapsed.Well he was our greatest leader :king: , so giving this to him maybe wouldnt be a huge mistake... Still you cant deny him being aggressive. Most of the territory he gained was by conquering... Spiritual (monastery-making)was nature of all Nemanjic family, so I think I'll stay with these traits.

favours: Heridertary Rules, ofcourse
That is already on. ;)

Note: in English the word is "traits", not "threats". ;)

"Threats" are when you threaten someone, i.e., "if you do this, I will kill you."

aiiii...my spelling:mad: again :D I guess I should finally find some nice English speaking female teacher for my English grammar;) Padma, brother, don't kill me please:D

....Well he was our greatest leader :king: , so giving this to him maybe wouldnt be a huge mistake... Still you cant deny him being aggressive. Most of the territory he gained was by conquering... Spiritual (monastery-making)was nature of all Nemanjic family, so I think I'll stay with these traits.

I'm not saying that he was not aggressive, just that that two TRAITS (that I sugested were maybe better look-like his real character). As for spiritual - if you take that as Nemanjic family trait, than it's OK.
Anyway, that's your mod, so you can do it, as you think is apropriate. I don't know how to do moding at all, so only what's left me is to critisized others;) :D
Very nice that you made this, anyhow, and soon i'll try to play:goodjob:

PS I've must made some more grammar erors....but where:mischief: :D

Ok,then let's hear your briliant idea?!What to do you thing is the best UU for Serbia.

What do you mean? I wasn't being sarcastic :) I just geniuinely thought that having "Hajduk" as a UU was a good idea.

I was also thinking of a second leader - it could really be one of the only two:
-Karađorđe
-Kralj Petar I

Karađorđe might be a good choice for your second leader. Or Obrenović, whoever you like better.

As for unique unit, stick with Hajduk, and not anything like this. (http://www.lakunoc.hr/filmici/e086.mov)

I have a big dilemma abou our UU...

It is true that they should have forests and hills bonus, but I can only set defensive bonus in terrain type, not attacking or overall. Also, Hajduks were known as fast units(fast for this type of terrain)... So, I was thinking should I give them some % for retreat??? Or perhaps IgnoreTerrainCost???But than again, I dont want to give them retreat option (or IgnoreTerrainCost) and guerilla I and woodsman I, because I dont wanna make them to be a superunit you dont wish to upgrade :) .

So should I give them GUERILLA I & WOODSMAN I ?
If not, say what you think is right? But please think good about it.

Nice one Veljo! thnx for sharing :-)

btw, as I'm pretty noob with this kind of stuff, could you or someone else plz explain me what is the best way to add a custom civ into the game?

I've tryed some kind of manual workaround, but the result wasn't 100% as I've expected.

thnx

So should I give them GUERILLA I & WOODSMAN I ?
If not, say what you think is right? But please think good about it.

Yes, it well balanced. Once they gain xp they can improve further, but this sets them in the right direction. Plain musketman with Guerilla I and Woodsman I. Best solution.

What do you think about King's gard for UU?They excist for very long time.

Hajduk is the best choice (or maibe PARTIZANI,they could be also UU for Serbia),I agree about serbian leader,you made an excelent choice,second leader could be Milos Obrenovic or Karadjordje,what to say,excelent work brother!!!

Yes, it well balanced. Once they gain xp they can improve further, but this sets them in the right direction. Plain musketman with Guerilla I and Woodsman I. Best solution.Well, the thing that is bothering me is that with guerilla and woodsman Hajduk will get good defensive bonus, but actually they were good attacking unit in woods and hills. This is why I gave them +25% vs GUNpowder units in the first place.
Still don't know what to do....

What do you think about King's gard for UU?They excist for very long time.I dont know....Hajduk seems better to me.

I agree about serbian leader,you made an excelent choice,second leader could be Milos Obrenovic or KaradjordjeI think I'll make Karadjodje.

Well, the thing that is bothering me is that with guerilla and woodsman Hajduk will get good defensive bonus, but actually they were good attacking unit in woods and hills. This is why I gave them +25% vs GUNpowder units in the first place.
Still don't know what to do....
If you cann't changed..leave it like that 25%vs gunpowder and woodsmanI

I dont know....Hajduk seems better to me.
maybe the only one apropriate (and suggested long time ago in one of the threads here for CivIIImod). At that time I sugested Infantry from WWI or some Medival Mace Infantry on horse (something like King Marko -sa sve šarcem i buzdovanom:D ).
And NOT any kind of cetnik or partizan unit!!!

I think I'll make Karadjodje.
Not like some -nations- we have so many of them to choose:)

Car Stefan Dusan Silni (medival) together with Vozd Karadjordje Petrovic (industrial) are the best choice.

But you would not mistake much with Veliki Zupan Stefan Nemanja or Knjaz Milos Obranovic!

Also Some more Nemanjic's: Stefan Firstcrowned, King Stefan Uros Milutin etc.
More medival: King Vukasin Mrnjavcevic, Knez Lazar Hrebelanovic, Despot Stefan Lazarevic or Djuradj Brankovic

Arsenije Charnojevich would be interesting (well he was a Leader also -in Renecansse period-)

Knez MIhajlo Obrenovic or King Petar I Karadjordjevic (Mrkonjic) Revanger Of Kosovo....

If you made Karadjordje put him to be Aggressive and Creative (and atleast for sake of difference made Dusan Expansionistic and Spiritual - I know that you are stubborn as any Serb, but I'm the one as well:D - well I agreed with you on Spiritual;) )

Picture that I send could be nice for leader-pic (but there is so many of them).
But would be nice if you can made it like CivArmy made "his" leader heads. Or we (you) could ask him for a help for this part:)
Someone also mentioned that can change look of -Hajduk-. If you can DO it, please. We shoud make this as best as possible:cool: I can only give suggestion, don't know anythig else:( :blush: .

I didnot tried yet (But I hope List of cities will not be disapointing) Did you included Ras, Ribnica, Onogosht, Ston, Trabunia, Zvechan, Moravski Gradac, Uzice, Nerodimlje, Prizren, Skoplje, Skadar, Ser etc... or just plain modern Serbs cities?!

Thanx to LAnkou, Serbian flag can wave now.

http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/zastava_srbije2.jpg

http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/zastava_srbije.jpg


To install it download me (http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mr04128/FlagDECAL_Serbia.dds) to \mods\Srbija\Assets\art\Interface\TeamColor .

Enjoy ;)

Did you included Ras, Ribnica, Onogosht, Ston, Trabunia, Zvechan, Moravski Gradac, Uzice, Nerodimlje, Prizren, Skoplje, Skadar, Ser etc... or just plain modern Serbs cities?!
List of cities is long, but I mostly included modern cities.

Here it is:
<Cities>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BEOGRAD</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NOVI_SAD</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SMEDEREVO</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NIS</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_RAS</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KRAGUJEVAC</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KRALJEVO</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PEC</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_UZICE</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PRISTINA</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ZRENJANIN</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CACAK</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KOSOVSKA_MITROVICA</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SABAC</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SUBOTICA</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NOVI_PAZAR</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NEGOTIN</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LESKOVAC</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PIROT</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SID</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BACKA_PALANKA</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ZEMUN</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SREMSKA_MITROVICA</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_VALJEVO</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SMEDEREVSKA PALANKA</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_POZAREVAC</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_JAGODINA</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CUPRIJA</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PARACIN</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_VRANJE</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_GORNJI_MILANOVAC</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ARANDJELOVAC</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_VELIKA_PLANA</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SOMBOR</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KIKINDA</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_POZEGA</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PROKUPLJE</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LOZNICA</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BELA_PALANKA</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LJUBOVIJA</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MAJDANPEK</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BOR</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_GNJILANE</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_TOPOLA</City> <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_TRSTENIK</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PRIBOJ</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KLADOVO</City>
<City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_RUMA</City>
</Cities>

Napravio sam news item za hrvatsku i srpsku civilizaciju na sajtu http://www.civilizacija.net . Nadam se da ću ih uskoro isprobati.

Ne znam kako ste napravili leaderheads, vjerojatno statička slika? S obzirom na to da će CivIV biti u opticaju jedno tri četiri godine, možda bi se isplatilo napraviti i 3D model da bude profesionalno :)

For people asking about comprehensive Balkan Mod or scenario - you can find a couple of Civ2 scenarios about breakup of Yugoslavia. If someone knows of a Civ3 mod in same theme please let me know. I would also be interested in seing the subject redone in Civ4, but I understand that it would be somewhat controversial. I hope to at least see some good scenarios about middle ages, arrival of Croats, struggles of Balkan peoples with Turks and similar stuff.

Good work all and keep it coming :b:

Napravio sam news item za hrvatsku i srpsku civilizaciju na sajtu http://www.civilizacija.net . Nadam se da ću ih uskoro isprobati.

Ne znam kako ste napravili leaderheads, vjerojatno statička slika? S obzirom na to da će CivIV biti u opticaju jedno tri četiri godine, možda bi se isplatilo napraviti i 3D model da bude profesionalno :)

For people asking about comprehensive Balkan Mod or scenario - you can find a couple of Civ2 scenarios about breakup of Yugoslavia. If someone knows of a Civ3 mod in same theme please let me know. I would also be interested in seing the subject redone in Civ4, but I understand that it would be somewhat controversial. I hope to at least see some good scenarios about middle ages, arrival of Croats, struggles of Balkan peoples with Turks and similar stuff.

Good work all and keep it coming :b:

Agree with you on topic 100%.

There is some Serbian Civ for III done (one from CivArmy /the best leaderheads maker of all by my opinion/ Karadjordje and one made by some other member with Dusan /also great job/) and when I have more time I'll send here link or position were it is so you can put it on your site.

I'm not aware of any other Civs from ex-yu, that does not mean there is no any.

CivArmy did nice Bulgarian Civ tho!

As I stated 3d would made this truely professional and would last longer.

Ево сад мало да ти и ја рекламирам сајт (и то на -Српском-:D ). Коме је лакше да о овој игрици дискутује на нашем језику учланите се на горе поменути сајт ЦИВИЛИЗАЦИЈА.НЕТ ("скроз цивилизиран сајт":D )
translate: it's just a call to join VetLegin's site

There how it look like

And this is CivArmy's Black George:goodjob:

But I dont have Poser 6.0 :( .
I cannot make any of these without any similar program.

But I dont have Poser 6.0 :( .
I cannot make any of these without any similar program.

I kindly asked CivArmy to help and he/she promised:) So hopefully soon will get it complet. Someone suggested that Serbia should be with Croatria inthe same pack, I think it's better combine with Byzantian (or Greeks), Illiraians (and/or some other old Balkan tribes Avars, Celts, Daccians..) Bulgars and Turks.

As for the cities list: it's not big deal anyway, who's player, he can changed anyway he wants. But if you take modern cities list you don't need Ras than it should be ether Novi Pazar or Rashka. I would like diferent list tho (old ones) and I'll made that change myself (i hope I'm capable enough to do atleast that). But as I saied it's not that immportant.

But UU should be done correctly in real uniform (something like Karadjordje wear on pic), with proper "hat" (subara) and maybe with Pistoles (kubure) not musket.

Veljo, my brother, how about JSO as UU?(you could change US navy seal...)

Hello everybody,

First I want to say that I have tried this Serbia mod and I like it :) but since I'm much more in favour of ex-Yugoslavia I'm interested in couple of things which will lead to SFRJ mod with Josip Broz Tito as a leader, partizans as a unique unit and all those nice cities - Beograd, Zagreb, Ljubljana, Sarajevo... No offence but Smederevo as a third city looks pretty lame comparing to Ljubljana or Sarajevo ;)

First of, can you tell me what software do I need to make a mod? :)

Secondly, if such thing is unavailable for all us mortals ;) can somebody do that instead of me? :) I'll be glad to help...

Thanx in advance!

Srdjan

No offence but Smederevo as a third city looks pretty lame comparing to Ljubljana or Sarajevo ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sr/7/71/Smederevo_tvrdjava_jerinina6.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sr/d/d5/Smederevo_tvrdjava_jerinina3.JPG

This looks lame to you?

First of, can you tell me what software do I need to make a mod? :)Notepad :), Photoshop and DDS converter.

Veljo, my brother, how about JSO as UU?(you could change US navy seal...)There is nothing much special about them...

...Zagreb, Ljubljana, Sarajevo... No offence but Smederevo as a third city looks pretty lame comparing to Ljubljana or Sarajevo...

I'd apreciate it if Serbia mod city list held only cities that are part of Serbia.

I'd apreciate it if Serbia mod city list held only cities that are part of Serbia.He was talking about Yugoslavian mod, which I dont want to talk about in this tread.

Velja, you didn't respond to my PM... so I'll ask here.
Would you give me permission to upload your Serbia civilization mod to www.civilizacija.net? It would be fully attributed to you, of course.

Velja, you didn't respond to my PM... so I'll ask here.
Would you give me permission to upload your Serbia civilization mod to www.civilizacija.net? It would be fully attributed to you, of course.You have never sent me a PM! I was so confused, so I checked my inbox again, but nothing from you.
Of course you can upload Serbia Mod, but this mod is not quite finished yet. There is still one leader to make, and if I get some 3D animation program, maybe I'll create leaderheads, but I will let you know, so you can upload it agan. Is that ok with you?

P.S.
This way I could remove this mod from my faculty server. I dont know if I'm allowed to put some large files for download there. ;)

Velja what soft for 3D making you need.Just tell me I'll give it to you!

Velja, it's a deal! I'll upload this one and when you make any modifications just let me know at webmaster@civilizacija.net and we'll put them up. Sorry about PM confusion, I thought I sent you too when I sent to Anima Croatorum but something got mixed up.

Uploaded: http://www.civilizacija.net/download.php?view.6

BTW., you can check out Blender, it's a free and open source 3D modeling tool, don't know if it is suitable for this purpose though.

CivArmy just said to me that it is still not possible to make animated leaderheads for Civ IV. We'll have to wait several weeks for that.

Ovo je sve do jaja samo stavi i srpske gradove u "krajinama" ex. Knin, Sarajevo, Banjaluka, Trebinje kao i Podgorica, Niksic itd.

ovog ustasu samo ignorisite.

do you realise how terribly rude it is to post a message in the unofficial forum language without a translation..

do you realise how terribly rude it is to post a message in the unofficial forum language without a translation..

If he had posted in English, he'd probably get warned or banned. :mischief:

heh, i guess it was for the best then :D

I'll translate.

Good job on this. The only thing I would suggest is to include some cities that were Serbian for hundreds of years and currently outside of borders of today's Serbia.

Ignore this croat (Anim...) for his comments regarding Serbian Civilization.

ok. thank you. thats all i wanted, a bit of civility.

I'll translate.

Good job on this. The only thing I would suggest is to include some cities that were Serbian for hundreds of years and currently outside of borders of today's Serbia.

Ignore this croat (Anim...) for his comments regarding Serbian Civilization.

Knin, Sarajevo, Banjaluka, Trebinje, Podgorica & Niksic were never part of any Serbian state.

Knin, Sarajevo, Banjaluka, Trebinje, Podgorica & Niksic were never part of any Serbian state.

Isnt Bankaluka still part of a Serbian state? .. "Republika Srpska"?

For that croat, most probably even Novi Sad isn't the part of Serbia.

Putting Knin in the mod as a city of Serbian civilization would be both historically incorrect and unnecessarily inflammatory. I advise against it. I have nothing against a little national aggrandizement in Civ, I've done it myself ;), and I also think that political correctness for the sake of itself should be kept out of the game as much as possible.

However, having cities of another country that were never part of Civ you are modding in is wrong in my opinion. It educates wrongly (mods are likely to get included in the SuperCiv mod and foreigners are going to play them too). It sends a political message while the game should be about fun. It kills some immersion because it is historically incorrect.

If you still want to do it, it is a part of your artistic license, of course, but it's ... lame ;)

11. Thou shalt not feed the troll.

Gentlemen, please do not spam Veljas' thread with an irrelevant discussion that was started to induce flaming. Ignore it.

The current cities list meets all standards and there is no need for alteration.

First of, I agree that we should not feed the troll and therefore this is my last post about this subject because there are some things that need to be explained which are, in my oppinion, crucial not just for this but for all new civilizations.

Shortly - I totally agree with VetLegion and Anima Croatorum.

Widely ;) - Banja Luka has never been a part of any Serbian state. Never in whole history and that's the case today as well because "Republic of Srpska" is not a state, it's just an entity inside Bosnia and Hercegovina state. Of course, there are Serbs living there but putting Banja Luka (and all other mentioned cities) inside Serbian empire would be nothing but lame agressive political polluting of this fabulous game which is not based on a facts but on sick whishes of Serbian nationalists.

If I put new cities, I'll put some cities from Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro, and maybe Greece. Maybe some cities that does not exist anymore. But I'll do that when I make new leader. That is friday at best, because I cant do anything untill Red Star-Roma match is over in thursday :D .

Also, how bout a Montenegrin civ next? Vladika Njegoš as leader and the Montenegrin Slow Worker as unique unit(just like a normal worker, but with zero movement)
HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Your civilization looks very nice , I have not gotten the chance to try it out yet , but it is definitely something worth looking into.

A suggestion to make your civ more accurate and less controversial, thus more widely accepted by all:
Only include the cities of old Serbia , before their territorial acquisitions (ie. 1878) and without the province of Kosova. Also, do not include Cetinje or other cities in the area of "Montenegro." It would be best if all your cities are completely Serbian cities as under Old Serbia.

Also, your UU is too good compared to the other Civ's UUs , and thus it is unbalanced. You might want to modify it to make it more fair.

Besides that, nice graphics work, and I'll give it a try later.

PS- I am Albanian, and despite my problems with the malintent of the Serbian people towards my own, I still respect your culture. These suggestions were given in good will, to help you create a civilization that is not overbalanced and is entirely Serbian, as a Serbian civlization would imply. (Asking not to include the controversial area of Kosova not only prevents you from trampling on my own people's rights and history, but is much more accurate. Besides, Kosova is 95% Albanian anyway, what use is it in Civ 4 to a Serbian Civilization? Are there not enough city names in Old Serbia to use?)

Once again, no harm, only constructive criticism given to make your civ better, and congratulations on a job so far well done.

Kosovo is one of the oldest parts of Serbia(and still is). I have no intentions to remove Kosovo cities, because there is absolutely no reason for that. I was even thinking of putting Skadar in, since there was in Civ 3 Singidunum(Beograd), Naisus(Nis)..... as Roman Cities, so Skadar(and other Albanian cities) were once Serbian.

Well, I didnot want to got involved in such discusion, but I dislike very much when some without any knowledge give some really incorrect and provocative posts as mr. srdjann did it for example. Niksic (use to be Onogosht), Podgorica (use to be Ribnica -and birth place of STEFAN NEMANJA) were never Serbian City?????? They were among the FIRST!!!

@ Shqype - Old Serbian city were actually mostly on kosovo. You probably ment that only new (modern as I said) should be in mod (this is just to correct you, not flame you) but even in that case it would included kosovo cities becouse they are still part of Serbian state (what is the % of albanian population now there is irelevant, just few years ago it was diferent...).

edit: @Anima - this is also not good. Is that mean that Tomislavgrad should not be included in cro-civ becouse it's not part of Croatian state...thats stuped. Even if someone made a civ mod for nation were that city is now I guess it would be just named Livno, and that's it.

@others- The same with Skadar (would be Schodra or something like that in other civmod eventually), Skoplje (Skopje) As for cities have the same name like Ston in modern Croatia I don't think that it would be included in any Cro-civ cities couse its just a village but was once (preSTONi grad) capital of Medieval Serbian province of Hum.

The only messure should be was that city acctually part of state in any period or not, so Chicago with more than 200000 Serbs is out of question as well as ST Andrea tho once 100% populated with Serbs was never part of that state.

@Velja ako si zainteresovan mogu ovde da posaljem listu gradova kakvu cu ja sebi napraviti uz objasnjenja (starih) pa mozes nesto i da promenis. Mada moze da ostane i kakva je sad...
translat. Just informed V that I'll send my propose for cities list.

I agree, Kosovo was (and is) an important part of Serbia. No objection there.

There is bound to be controversy with these things, hopefully we can discuss them without flaming. For example, Turkish civilization could legitimately include Budapest (they held it for 145 years AFAIK) and a host of other cities: Belgrade, Kairo, Baghdad and so on. Should it?

I am inclined to say that there should be universal criteria for including cities in a Civ, but I simply can't imagine such criteria. Number of years held, cultural significance, important events, composition of population -- they are either subjective, can be disputed, or their importance can be disputed.

That is why I believe that the author of the mod has the artistic freedom to decide, and that his decisions are valid whatever they are.

Civ4 is extremely moddable, and everyone can make a mod and a thread if they are not happy with the first mod made. To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as official mod, so it's free for all :)

However I think that it is in the interest of mod maker that his mod is played, and it will be played if people think it is good and reasonably accurate. So exaggerating in any respect is naturally discouraged by that.

Kosovo is one of the oldest parts of Serbia(and still is). I have no intentions to remove Kosovo cities, because there is absolutely no reason for that. I was even thinking of putting Skadar in, since there was in Civ 3 Singidunum(Beograd), Naisus(Nis)..... as Roman Cities, so Skadar(and other Albanian cities) were once Serbian.
I pity you. The Serbian people fail to realize that they have lost Kosova, it is no longer a part of Serbia. Yet they still try desparately not to comply with this reality. Even to the point where they make Kosovar cities part of a Serbian civilization.

Shkodra was never a part of Serbia, UNLESS you consider Serbian conquest of Northern Albania under Stefan Dushan. But that was just a ruler of Serbia going around claiming land. (For example, Bulgaria occupied part of the Balkans at one point, but that does not make those occupied cities Bulgarian, understood?) Shkodra was Albanian since Illyrian times , before Serbs even existed , and still is today.

Alone , the Serbian cities in Kosova were colonizations on a territory they tried to acquire since they first invaded the land. Today Serbia has no claim to Kosova , for Kosova is no longer under Serbia , and the start on negotiations of Kosova's final status is less than a month away. Wait and see what happens.

I pity you. The Serbian people fail to realize that they have lost Kosova, it is no longer a part of Serbia. Yet they still try desparately not to comply with this reality. Even to the point where they make Kosovar cities part of a Serbian civilization.It is part of Serbia. Where did you find different?

Shkodra was never a part of Serbia, UNLESS you consider Serbian conquest of Northern Albania under Stefan Dushan. But that was just a ruler of Serbia going around claiming land. (For example, Bulgaria occupied part of the Balkans at one point, but that does not make those occupied cities Bulgarian, understood?) Northern Albania?
http://www.kosovo.com/sk/history/kosovo_origins/map2.jpg
That yellow part is Dusan's Serbia.
Shkodra was Albanian since Illyrian times , before Serbs even existed , and still is today.Serbs existed, but lived in a different place. At least Serbs had their state before 20th century, and did not live tribal life like Albanians.

Alone , the Serbian cities in Kosova were colonizations on a territory they tried to acquire since they first invaded the land. Today Serbia has no claim to Kosova , for Kosova is no longer under Serbia , and the start on negotiations of Kosova's final status is less than a month away. Wait and see what happens.If I comment this there will probably be much ***** :D .

Friend Shqype, everything you posted here is one big nonsense.

1. RAS
Capital of Rashka and first United Serbian state on Balkan
2. BEOGRAD
Nowadays capital (can switched position with Ras)
3. RIBNICA
Nowadays suburb of Podgorica and represent of Zeta the other of first Serbian United state (and birth place of the creator of Serbian stae on Balkan Stefan Nemanja) and represent of CrnaGora the other modern Serbian state.
Note: Could be simply just PODGORICA
4. TREBINJE
or Trabunija as represent of third part of oldest Serbian State Hum.
5. PRIZREN
as a represent of many Capital cities of Nemanjic family ruler that was all located in nowadays province of Kosovo like Pristina, Nerodimlje etc.
6. SKOPLJE
Nowadays capital of Macedonian state, but Capital city of Emperor Dusan the Powerful in XIV cent.

And some cities of that medieval period:
7. ZVECHAN
(Kos. Mitrovica) instead could be NOVO BRDO
8. ONOGOŠT
(Nikšić)
9. STON
instead could be UŽICE as another represent of Hum province seat
10. SER
(Seres in nowadays Greece. Use to be a Capital of newly conquered southern provinces)
11. SKADAR
(Nowadays in Albania. Important Serbian city ruled by King Mrnjavcevic family and latter on by Balsics) instead could be PRILEP
12. GRADAC
(Moravski Gradac is nowadays Cacak, instead could be BORAČ as one of important fort in that area of Serbia)

then:
13. KRUŠEVAC
Capital of Lazar’s State
14. SMEDEREVO
Capital city of Serbia under the rules of Despot Djuradj Brankovic
Note: BEOGRAD was first time capital just before Smederevo, under the rule of Despot Stefan Lazarevic so maybe this could be a better place to put it instead second or first position.
15. NOVI SAD
Nowadays capital of the Serbian province Vojvodina and as a represent of Serbian migration and settlement on north.
16. KRAGUJEVAC
First official Serbian Capital City in Modern Serbia founded by Obrenovics family
17. NIŠ
the biggest city in conquered area from Turks in late XIX century in Juzna Morava region nowadays one of three biggest cities in Serbia
18. BANJA LUKA
as a represent of conquered territories on the west from Austria after WWI and Capital City of Vrbaska Banovina of newly formed Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (therefore Yes a part of Serbian state in one moment!). Nowadays city in Bosnia&Herz. In province Rep.Srpska.

And some modern bigger cities of Serbia
19. BOR
20. LESKOVAC
21. PANČEVO
22. PRIŠTINA
23. SUBOTICA
24. ŠABAC


NOTE:
You can add as much cities from Velja’s city-list if need more or use some of alternative solution for some early cities that I offered to make list longer.

This is how I think list of the cities should look like in order that is historically accurate.

@Velja I hope you like the list and you’ll make it official or as a base for wider one. But also you can left as it is now without any of the old Serbian empire cities. But just remove Ras in that case cause it’s not fit in than.

The rest of you tell me also what do you think about this list, but please just don’t start again that flame why is city on the list and is not in nowadays Serbia anymore but in other country, because I gave the explanation for each of them.

4. TREBINJE
or Trabunija as represent of third part of oldest Serbian State Hum.
9. STON
instead could be UŽICE as another represent of Hum province seat
18. BANJA LUKA
as a represent of conquered territories on the west from Austria after WWI and Capital City of Vrbaska Banovina of newly formed Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (therefore Yes a part of Serbian state in one moment!). Nowadays city in Bosnia&Herz. In province Rep.Srpska.

The elder gods of Bosnia-Herzegovina disagree.

The elder gods of Bosnia-Herzegovina disagree.And thats your argument...:)
Beside, what Ston or Uzice had/have with BiH?

Its like Baja, Oklahoma, Texas in your soul. And Hum was not a Serbian state. Rascia was.

Ok,Shqype I understand that you parents teached you wrong so you claim thing that have no sense!First while we had our state you had tribals!Second Serbian first state was in Kosova,and also capital.We fought for Kosova in 1389 against Otomans empire.Where were you back then?Also,you got your first indipence in the WWI so that Serbia won't spread to sea.50-60 years ago there was maybe 5% Albanians in Kosova but smart guy Josip Broz Tito let you to freerely enter Kosova and situate there.Because of massive terrorism on Serbian people on Kosova that's why there are now 95% Albanians.This is end of diskussion,if you want more creat topic in History topic and let's disskus there.
Now let's back to topic.

... And Hum was not a Serbian state...
:eek: ..this is.. :rolleyes:

Now, you completlly disapointed me. I thought you're more serious. This look like ordinary provocation:( . Your observation on Souls and elder Gods look much better than this...

But this is not place to discuss this matter in details.

There are some more Serbian cities that were part of Serbian state during history, and have some importance to state or nation that I didnot put in first version.
So creator of thread or any user of this mod in future, can use them instead or together with existing ones, if once dislike or think that this list is too short.

note: some of them don't exist anymore
Braničevo
Rudnik
Kotor
Brskovo
Ždrelo
Velbužd
Risan
------
Soko
Kupinovo
Sveti Nikola
...

i hate posting here being a croat.. but If u're gonna include BANJA LUKA for the reason "18. BANJA LUKA
as a represent of conquered territories on the west from Austria after WWI and Capital City of Vrbaska Banovina of newly formed Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (therefore Yes a part of Serbian state in one moment!). Nowadays city in Bosnia&Herz. In province Rep.Srpska."

THAN PLEASE ADD ATHENS ALSO...
in that map above i see athens clearly part of Serbia.

and thats one of the greatest cities ever..U would be too modest to leave Athens out of serbia. Please feel at home, take what belongs to you, don't sacrifice what is yours or once was yours just out or politeness to others. It takes bravery, but its the right thing to do.. I got to go.. i have to go take the car i sold a few months back.. i'm gonna need it for a vacation.

THAN PLEASE ADD ATHENS ALSO...
in that map above i see athens clearly part of Serbia.
:D Maybe you should look at map BETTER.
If you are serious and detailed as in this clame than you'll realise how relevant is whole your post!!

Just for the record Athens was never part of Serbia and is not on the pic above ether.

As I can see this is Turkish recourse map. If I want really to make you angry I could post one more accurate from western European sources were you can clearly see in that period under the rule of Car Dusan almost whole present Bosnia was part (so if you don't belive Turks you would probably belive your patterns West Europen Historians in this case:goodjob:

So I guess you're right only in two things 1.Better stick whit what you know better Croatian CivMod thread and 2. You DO need a vacation (or better glasses)

:eek: ..this is.. :rolleyes:

Now, you completlly disapointed me. I thought you're more serious. This look like ordinary provocation:( . Your observation on Souls and elder Gods look much better than this...

But this is not place to discuss this matter in details.

Hum, Travunija and Duklja were not Serb states. They were Slavic states whose allegiances shifted as the winds blew across Balkans. Sometimes vassals to Byzantium, sometimes to Croatia, sometimes independent, sometimes to Hungary... by the time Serbia emerged as an independent state all of these political entities were merely historical titles, some already forgotten.

I apologize for calling you modest. Now i know why Athens wasn't mentioned.
I love maps, that woudl be great if u could post one that clearly defines the borders of that region, during that time period :)

This is my last post here.. but truthfully.. Athens as part of the "Katalansko Vojvodstvo" That is close enough.

Thats practically serbia.. With all due respect, if you're going to include cities in Croatia, Bosnia, Albania etc... Than u got to include athens too.
Serbs came so close to ruling it, and you just got to know they had crazy influence in it.. It would be a shame to leave it out of the civ.

I apologize for calling you modest. Now i know why Athens wasn't mentioned.You did NOT called me modest in any previous posts so I guess (since you can not quote yourself you need a better memory also;)
I love maps, that woudl be great if u could post one that clearly defines the borders of that region, during that time period :)
We have somethig common, I also like maps:) Thats why we all like this game I guess.

ONCE MORE: If nobody like this kind of list simply we'll stick with one that Velja already posted!
AND ONCE MORE:But you do realise that you willinglly refuse to put some very important cities of Croatia in CroMod just becouse they are not part of nowadays state of Hrvatska. Because I expect that in this thread you have same rules applied.

Maps comming, but offcourse it will not clarify completly any position of any state in earlier historical periods as Vet Legion mentioned that one can be disputed allways:rolleyes:

We fought for Kosova in 1389 against Otomans empire.Where were you back then.
The Battle of Kosova in 1389 was led by the Serbs , but it was actually a Balkan coalition against the Turks. In addition to Serbs, there were also Croatians, Greeks, Vlachs, Albanians, etc. fighting to defend the Balkans from the Ottoman Empire.

However, the reason that battle was lost was because one of the Serbian leaders (which had a Turkish brother-in-law leading the battle) defected to the side of the enemy. Yes , a Serbian leader joined the Turks with a sizeable portion of Serbian troops at a critical point in the battle, thus allowing the Turkish side victory.

Albanians were unified during the 15th century under Gjergj Kastrioti to fight the Turks , while the Serbs were paying tribute , not powerful enough to lift a finger against the Ottomans. 10 years after his death, Albania was conquered by the Ottoman Empire, and kept under Ottoman control for almost 5 centuries. Sure there were rebellions, but they weren't enough to completely defeat the strongest army in the world.

Balkans in 1815:
http://plaveguci.com/03%20Europa%201815_1905.jpg

1856-1878
http://plaveguci.com/05%20Ballkani%201912.jpg

Here is a map of Eastern Europe at 1878:
http://plaveguci.com/07%20Europa%20lindore%201878.jpg
See where the Serbian aspirations are? That is the land they tried to claim for their own.
http://plaveguci.com/10%20Aspiracionet%20Ballkanike%201914.jpg

This is a good one. See where it says ancient boundaries (which even today are ethnically Albanian) and boundaries after a European Treaty that gave Albanian land to its neighbors?
http://plaveguci.com/12%20Modifikacionet%20Ballkanike%201914.jpg

This is a map:
http://plaveguci.com/harta_etnike.jpg
In red is modern-day Albania with the international borders that the world recognizes, and is part of the ethnic Albania that exists today, the Albania that existed BEFORE the European Leaders split up Albania and gave part of the land to Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, and Greece.

Those maps are English, German, Italian, and French. They prove the point better than your propagandic claims based on false nationalistic myth.

This is my last post here.. but truthfully.. Athens as part of the "Katalansko Vojvodstvo" That is close enough.

Thats practically serbia.. With all due respect, if you're going to include cities in Croatia, Bosnia, Albania etc... Than u got to include athens too.
Serbs came so close to ruling it, and you just got to know they had crazy influence in it.. It would be a shame to leave it out of the civ.I know why you're doing this...You simply wants to include Beč (Vienna) as a part of cro-civ. I mean you influenced Austria so much.. do it please I guess noone would have anything against nor Austrians nor Croats:p

@Anima - it's not a thread for that but just shortly if you know: What was then the name of the province ruled by Voinovich family and after Dusan's death Nikola Altomanovic (Nikola Voinovic nethew). And they were all Serbian nobles.

@Shqype

Your last map (that present some planed future) speaking of the nature of your nation better than anything. Thank You for posted here.


THIS IS MAP THAT SHOW PAST TIMES. 1354, to be clear.

As I said , that was conquest under Stefan Dushan , considered the greatest leader of Serbia. That lasted for a very short time, 9 years. Like someone said earlier, you cannot include Athens as a part of Serbia for something like this. Athens is a Greek city , and is historically a center of ancient Greek culture. It is not a part of Serbia , just like the Albanian cities that you claim.

:rolleyes:

Just for the record Athens was never part of Serbia and is not on the pic above ether.



!!!!

Alright then , let me give you a better example of what is not allowed.

During WWII the Germans took control of most of the Balkans. They brought Serbia under their Empire. However, the Germany civilization cannot include Beograd as one of its cities, because Beograd is a Serbian city which Germany has no legitimate claim to.

Acquiring cities for a short period of time during war by conquest does not give one rights to legitimately claim that city. Perhaps that better clarifies what I meant.

Bravo Veljo!

welcome to this thread:)

Ma odličan posao je napravio, samo je malo tvrdoglav;) :D
Jel imas ti neko dodatno resenje za Hajdukovu statistiku?

edit: translation - Great job for Velja, and question for P1fanatic for sugestion about Serbian UU, since this member is one of the best unit moders of all members, if not the best:goodjob: (i bio sam skroman u hvalama ovaj put:D )

I think that Hajduk is really original idea.

At first, when somebody (maybe some of the posters in this thread, it was long time ago), was making mod for Balkan civs for Civ3 while ago, my idea was to have some sort of Infantry UU, to represend soliders from Balkan and WWI which could have better defense (Serbia held long time against much greater Austrian force). In Civ4 it could be something like extra city defense bonus.

But when I think about it, Hajduk is really genuine idea.

Let's leave Infantry UU for some Balkan or WWI scenario.



As for Hajduk balancing, why not give them First Strike ability. That should similate hit and run tactics nicely.

Here is my idea.
Give them 2 First Stikes (like Samurai), but reduce strenght to 8. Then add free "Guerrila I" promotion to compensate.

Should give nice irregular flavour.



P.S.
Woodsmen promotuion is nice too, but unfortunately in that point of game, there are no really too much forests to make it useful.


EDIT:
Or let's really keep it simple.
Make it same as Musktemen, but with added 1 First Strike and free level of Guerilla I.

The Battle of Kosova in 1389 was led by the Serbs , but it was actually a Balkan coalition against the Turks. In addition to Serbs, there were also Croatians, Greeks, Vlachs, Albanians, etc. fighting to defend the Balkans from the Ottoman Empire.

However, the reason that battle was lost was because one of the Serbian leaders (which had a Turkish brother-in-law leading the battle) defected to the side of the enemy. Yes , a Serbian leader joined the Turks with a sizeable portion of Serbian troops at a critical point in the battle, thus allowing the Turkish side victory.

Albanians were unified during the 15th century under Gjergj Kastrioti to fight the Turks , while the Serbs were paying tribute , not powerful enough to lift a finger against the Ottomans. 10 years after his death, Albania was conquered by the Ottoman Empire, and kept under Ottoman control for almost 5 centuries. Sure there were rebellions, but they weren't enough to completely defeat the strongest army in the world.:lol: :lol: I heard this before... And Milos Obilic was Albanian, wright?? :lol: You call him Milosh Kopili. Funny guys these Albos.

In red is modern-day Albania with the international borders that the world recognizes, and is part of the ethnic Albania that exists today, the Albania that existed BEFORE the European Leaders split up Albania and gave part of the land to Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, and Greece.Oh my God, what did they teach you there in Albania???
European leaders split Albania? :lol: Because of them you have your state today. Because of them Serbia had to give away Skadar(which we conquered in Balkan wars) to Albania.


What did yoy try to say with these maps? You missed to say the point. What they prove?

Just to get back to Hajduks.
(and forget about real-politics, Serbian, and Albainian nationalist will just never agree about some things and that's hard truth)


Hit and run can be represented with either first strikes or retreat chance. The only problem with this aproach is that gunpowder units can't get promotions with these abilities.
So if it has FS1 it will alwasy be FS1, if it has 25% retreat it will always be retreat


Anyway, just having UU with both Woodsman I and Guerrilla I for free is an interesting option too.
Woods and hills were always connected with Hajduks anyway. And they are good attackers since Civ leader is agressive so they have Combat I.

Well, I didnot want to got involved in such discusion, but I dislike very much when some without any knowledge give some really incorrect and provocative posts as mr. srdjann did it for example. Niksic (use to be Onogosht), Podgorica (use to be Ribnica -and birth place of STEFAN NEMANJA) were never Serbian City?????? They were among the FIRST!!!

Well, you said it! Podgorica and Niksic were never part of Serbian empire because in those times they had different names!

Nobody will complain if you put Onogosht and Ribnica, but if you put Niksic and Podgorica that will be something completely different (to repeat myself – sick wish of serbian nationalists).

For an example, Singidunum could be a part of Rome civilization but what will you say if someone put Beograd (or Belgrade)? You will be at least unsatisfied.

Naming Banja Luka, Podgorica, Niksic, Sarajevo, Knin... as a part of Serbian Empire wouldn't be much different as naming Tokio too (Srbija do Tokija :D)

On the other hand, speaking of Kosovar cities (Prizren, Pristina, Pec...) I totally agree that they should be names of cities inside Serbian mod even thoug I think that they are no longer inside Serbia (formaly yes for a couple more months or maybe years, but practicaly no). They were part of Serbian empire in history so they must be included without concerning todays political situation.

whoaaa....

such a discussion on city names?
i know i'm a westerner and my knowledge of balkan history is quite small, but so much discussion between serbian, croat, albanian...(didn't remember any slovenian post). I'm wondering if i'm gonna add serbia (and to be fair, that would mean i have to remove croatia).

well, i don't know whether Belgrade should be serbian or french, but here are some simple rules to get everyone agree:

-focuse on cities that are within the boundaries of the existing state
-in the case of Serbia, i would try to avoid as much as possible city that are in kosovo. from what i know, Kosovo is still part of Yougoslavia (wich include Serbia and Kosovo), but if i were you i would try to avoid polemic
-if there are historical serbian cities that are outside serbian boundaries (i mean cities that everyone agree they were part of serbia long enough, cities that were founded by serbian but aren't serbian anymore), try to give them the oldest name (the Niksic/Onogosht thing), it won't be seen as rude but rather as smart
-i disagree with the use of the map of the empire: it last 9 years only...should i include italian cities since Napoleon conquer them and keep them for some years? no i don't think so
-Use the present boundaries to determine whether a city should or shouldn't be in the list. avoid polemic
-avoid polemic
-avoid polemic

well that's sad, but with the present way the things are, if i add serbia to superciv, i will change the city list and make my own: (wich will be done in this way: google, "major serbian cities", copy/paste, play)

here is the google list (include vojvodina, if it's a problem to any vojvodinian, i may try to fix it)

Principal Cities and populations
Name C Cf 2002-04-01
1 Beograd 1,120,092
2 Novi Sad 191,405
3 Niš 173,724
4 Kragujevac 146,373
5 Subotica 99,981
6 Zrenjanin 79,773
7 Pančevo 77,087
8 Čačak 73,217
9 Leskovac 63,185
10 Smederevo 62,805
11 Valjevo 61,035
12 Kraljevo 57,411
13 Kruševac 57,347
14 Šabac 55,163
15 Vranje 55,052
16 Užice 54,717
17 Novi Pazar 54,604
18 Sombor 51,471

I'm wondering if i'm gonna add serbia (and to be fair, that would mean i have to remove croatia).

Remove France while you are at it.

here is the google list (include vojvodina, if it's a problem to any vojvodinian, i may try to fix it)

:lol:

More controversy :D

@Shqype

Your last map (that present some planed future) speaking of the nature of your nation better than anything. Thank You for posted here.


THIS IS MAP THAT SHOW PAST TIMES. 1354, to be clear.

This map is incorrect. Stjepan II Kotromanović was never a vassal of Serbia. Bosnia was independent and under protection of the King of Hungary, Croatia, Slavonia and Dalmatia.

1353.
1353 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/brownbeard/1353.jpg)

1358. After liberation of Dalmatia from Venice
1358 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/brownbeard/1358.jpg)

i try to propose some solution that can please everyone, and since i don't want serbian or any other former yougoslavian saying things like "there is croatia, why isn't there is Serbia", you should try to find a good city list if you don't want to be rejected of the mod

besides that, i will make my own city list rather that rejecting croatia...

PS: what is the problem with Vojvodina? (and what is the problem with former yougoslavian who can't find a good city list?)

PS: what is the problem with Vojvodina? (and what is the problem with former yougoslavian who can't find a good city list?)

There is no problem with Vojvodina, for now. You never know...

Current city list is not controversal at all.
Anyone disagree?

i try to propose some solution that can please everyone, and since i don't want serbian or any other former yougoslavian saying things like "there is croatia, why isn't there is Serbia", you should try to find a good city list if you don't want to be rejected of the mod

besides that, i will make my own city list rather that rejecting croatia...

PS: what is the problem with Vojvodina? (and what is the problem with former yougoslavian who can't find a good city list?)

Actualy, there was no problem until someone asked Velja to include some cities in Serbia mod which have never been a part of any Serbian state ever.

Problem with those cities (Niksic, Podgorica, Sarajevo, Banja Luka, Knin...) is strictly political - Serbian nationalists claim those cities as Serbian because today (or most likely long time ago) there live(d) Serbian people.

Historical facts, on the other hand, are saying that those cities have never been inside any Serbian state.

After that some others appeared and started to "read" the History from an incorrect angle which is also used by Serbian nationalists for political purpose.

Podgorica, Niksic and Skhodra as a modern cities (which they are) for an example have never been inside any Serbian state, but Ribnica, Onogosht and Skadar were Serbian medieval cities which were nothing like modern cities but fortresses which parts exist today as a medieval relict near those modern cities (this year I have been to Albania and got a picture under the fortress of Skadar which is near Shkodra :)).

Therefor you cannot say that Ribnica is same as Podgorica, Onogosht same as Niksic etc. because they are not.

Also, other wrong vieving is that first Yugoslavia is some kind of Serbian state because it isn't (even though Serbs had all others – Croatians, Slovenians, Macedonians... under their rule) and therefor Banja Luka can not be part of Serbian mod in any case. It can be a part of Yugoslavia mod, and it can be a part of Bosnia (and Herzegovina) mod, but it can not be a part of Serbia mod because that would be involving aggressive and criminal politics (which led to the couple of hundred thousand dead people at the end of 20th century) into game.

The problem can be solved easily because for most cities which were/are inside more than one empire there are multiple names which each belong to different state. For an example, if someone decides to make an Austria-Hungarian mod, he/she can use names like Laibach instead of Ljubljana, Agram instead of Zagreb or Neusatz instead of Novi Sad. :) For other cities I think that there should be no harm when in Serbia mod you find Prizren (because Prizren was a part of Serbian state and formaly still is) just like no one should be offended with Prizren inside Yugoslav mod and inside (eventual) Kosovo mod.

It would be wrong and provoking to put Prizren into (eventual) Albania mod (because it has never been part of Albanian state/empire) same as it is wrong when someone asks that Banja Luka gets into Serbian mod, but Prizren is on Kosovo, was in Yugoslavia and was/is in Serbia (most probably will not stay for a long time but it is now and that is the fact that nobody can't deny) and since Civilization is the game which covers not only present but also the past I think that Prizren as a city has got a right to be in all those mentioned mods.

Voila. :)

PS. There is no problem with Vojvodina at all – any city from Vojvodina can be a part of 1. Vojvodina mod (if there is a Quebec mod why not Vojvodina? :)) 2. Serbia mod 3. Yugoslavia mod and 4. Austria-Hungaria mod and I'm sure that no one would be offended by this.

PPS. Current city list is totally ok and I'm sure that everyone will agree on that.

@ LAnkou I don't understand you my friend:crazyeye: You are some authority here, who will decide which civ-mod will enter some "official" mod pack? By my opinion you're very rude and your -threat- that you will not put Serbian mod in your pack of Civs becouse you have to expel Croatia:confused: in that case are mildely said not fair and arogant:(

Here is a news for you. 1. This is a FREE site, I can suggest city list that I think should be for Serbian civilization as the member of that nation. I would NEVER suggest you what to put in French Civ cities (alternative)mod (That would be very unpolite if I tell you that Bastia or Aiaccio are forbiden to enter in becouse it's not actualy France but Corsica - and thats what you exactly did in a case of Serbia!!) 2. If you don't want to put Serbia in your pack, please DONOT, someone else WILL, End of story, don't threaten us.

@ Anima (Cluhulu;) ) Well look like you're not reading my previous posts. You're ignoring me?;) Well you're still better than some other that don't even remember what they wrote themselfs:D .

I already said that any map can be disputed. (but you gave me Croatian source I posted Western European, but that doesn't mean that any of those two are correct, or not. As you mentioned about Kotromanic /his wife was Stefan Dusan sister IIRC/ look like some historian disagree with you) I didnot want to put this map at all, but Pooks kindly ask me to do that...

PS And Hum was Serbian Province:)

Current city list is not controversal at all.
Anyone disagree?

I guess not. But I already said THAT: Current list is also OK, look like everybody read only what they're posted. I just tried to suggest a better one and I also said that if noone likes it will keep the old one!

Just an observation. No Serb objection only Croation and Albanian, with support from West European "autorithy", how realistic:(

i threatened nobody (at least it wasn't my goal)
it's just that i can't add a civ with so many "violent" discussion about it...
i allways said that i would prefer make myself a list of cities rather than picking a list which is discussed in this way

the list i have taken are all existing cities in the actual serbian state (or province or whatever you call this part of yougoslavia), and can't be subject to discussion like there was... I'm in no way some authority who can decide whether or not a city is good or bad, but if i can prevent trouble, i will. I want to add serbia to the superciv mod, but there is so much discussion, including people from other countries like Croatia and Albany that i prefer let people find a good consensus about ALL former yougoslavian civs, than just letting one outside... in no way, including serbia means expelling Croatia, it's the opposite!!!

By the way, since there is a good consensus about the first city list, i took this one and Serbia will be a part of next version of Superciv....

anyway, cool down, i'm a consensus man and it just seems to me that Balkans are some powder stack that can explode at any moment...hopefully, there are a lot of people like Velja and srdjann that teach me it is not (always) like that

Just to get back to Hajduks.
(and forget about real-politics, Serbian, and Albainian nationalist will just never agree about some things and that's hard truth)


Hit and run can be represented with either first strikes or retreat chance. The only problem with this aproach is that gunpowder units can't get promotions with these abilities.
So if it has FS1 it will alwasy be FS1, if it has 25% retreat it will always be retreat


Anyway, just having UU with both Woodsman I and Guerrilla I for free is an interesting option too.
Woods and hills were always connected with Hajduks anyway. And they are good attackers since Civ leader is agressive so they have Combat I.

Thanks for help:) I hope Velja will take your advices serious:scan:

@Velja - Andrej ti je zaista najbolji moder za jedinice na sajtu. Fireaxes je stavio sve njegove opcije kao oficijalne i na originalnom CivIII sajtu. Mislim da bi bilo dobro da ga poslusas:) Pozdrav obojici -Dragan

PS And Hum was Serbian Province:)

I'm not ignoring you. I am merely stating that Hum was not a Serbian state. Its history did not start with the creation of Serb state. In the age of Branimir(9ct) it was a principality of Croatia Rubea(Red Croatia), in the age of Petar Kresimir IV, it was independent, ruled by Michael I, allied and under protection of Croatia. Later it came under vassalage of Duklja, proto-Montenegro. And then it switched allegiances, a lot, and hardly had any attributes of statehood until the foundation of Herzegovina.

I am not in any way denying that Hum at times was part of Serbian state(Raška, like the entire 13ct.)

Slavic states in the Balkans after the arrival of Croats and Serbs:

700 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/brownbeard/700.jpg)

West Balkans at the height of Komnenus rennesaince:

1180 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/brownbeard/1180.jpg)

West Balkans after the 4th crusade:

1204 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/brownbeard/1204.jpg)

Middle of 13th century:

1250 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/brownbeard/1250.jpg)

End of 13th century:

1300 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/brownbeard/1299.jpg)

:confused:
Those are all maps of Croatia (and if I may state on needier of them Croatia is not independent, but that’s not my point) and those maps should be posted in Croatian Mod Thread. So my suggestion for some Moderators is to transfer those there, were they are belongs.

PS We agree than on Hum.

edit: since Anima changed it to a links and explaned the reason disregard my suggestion, please.

All those maps are about Hum too, and Serbias western border. I replaced the pics with links. Doesnt clutter the thread anymore.

And back to original topic. Velja's original list is best. And there is absolutely no need for change. If someone somehow runs out of cities while playing this mod, he better have snapshots and a savegame to back up his/hers demands.

Oh my God, what did they teach you there in Albania???
European leaders split Albania? Because of them you have your state today. Because of them Serbia had to give away Skadar(which we conquered in Balkan wars) to Albania.
To be honest I have never attended any form of school in Albania, I recieved my education in the United States of America. Thus , available at my disposal is a wealth of knowledge from all types of sources , not just Albanian or Slavic sources. That is the difference between you and I , for my sources are unbiased , whereas yours are influenced by Serbian propaganda.

Albania was considered a part of the Ottoman Empire. (After our rebellion , when our leader died , Albania was conquered by the Ottomans and held for nearly 5 centuries). The maps provided prove this, for Albanian lands are labelled under the Ottomans.

In the 19 century , the Ottoman Empire was quickly losing its former strength. Europe saw this as an opportunity to remove the Ottoman presence that had plagued their existance for so long. When Greece and Serbia recieved their indepedence from the Empire , Albania was still under Ottoman administration. The fact that a large percentage of Albanians were Muslim (converted by the Turks) didn't help them , and Europe used it against them. The Serbian propaganda machines were rolling , calling the Albanians Turks because some of them belonged to the Islamic faith (that was forced upon them).

The Treaty of Berlin 1878 ceded large tracts of land to the Balkan countries surrounding Albania, particularly Montenegro. At this point the Slavic countries began an aggressive policy of assimilation in an attempt to effectively colonize the Albanian land that Europe had given them.

Rebellions flared up, but did not amount to much, until 1911 when the Albanian flag was raised for the first time in nearly 5 centuries to declare Albanian independence from the Ottoman empire. The Albanians saw their lands being divided and knew they had to act fast. In their rebellion , they began taking back Albanian cities from the Ottoman Empire.

They were successful and had reclaimed a significant portion of land in what is today called Macedonia. However, it was at this time that the Serbs took it upon themselves to declare war on the "Ottomans," and were supported by Europe (nobody like the Turks and everyone wanted them out). But in reality, the Serbs were only interested in gaining land because the Albanians had already beaten the Ottomans back. So it went something like this:

Albanians fight Turks and reclaim their land => Serbia declares war on "Ottoman Empire" => Serbia fights Albanians to conquer Albanian land

This is known as the Balkan wars. The Serbs went on a genocide march through Shkodra (even as far down as Tirana) killing Albanians. The independence of the Albanian state was proclaimed in the Southern port city of Vlora (Illyrian VALONA) in 1912. The chauvinistic Slavs took this opportunity to feast on the land and tried to take as much as they could.

Europe did not know how to handle the Albanian problem , they just split it up and gave it to its neighbors. In fact , around the time of WWI , Italy was promised the remainder of Albania in a secret treaty. The reason the Albanian state exists today is not because of Europe , but because of AMERICAN PRESIDENT WOODROW WILSON. His belief in the concept of Self Determination , and his persistance to save the Albanian people , helped ensure the Albanians a state , even it was only half of its original size.

The Albanians agreed under the logic that some is better than none. They would have rather had a state half the size of Albania than no state at all.

Half of Albanian lands and cities are thus outside the modern state of Albania. They are not for the Slavic countries to claim as their own because they are Albanian. Thus your original city list was flawed.

PS , The hero that you refer to was an Albanian born man whose name was slavicized by the Serbs so that they could claim him for themselves.

LAnkou , your Serbian city list is much more acceptable than the ones that the nationalstic myth driven Serbs have provided. Thanks.

All those maps are about Hum too, and Serbias western border. I replaced the pics with links. Doesnt clutter the thread anymore.

And back to original topic. Velja's original list is best. And there is absolutely no need for change. If someone somehow runs out of cities while playing this mod, he better have snapshots and a savegame to back up his/hers demands.

OK

Well anyone can play against Serbia as well so if don't like list just conquered it if you can:D

As for the pack included Serbia and Croatia, I have nothing against, I just PREFER if Serbia would be in the pack with BYZANTIA, BULGARIA, than Turks, Illirians, Avars, (maybe Celts or some tribes of them) and Daccians (or Walachians or Romanians).

To be honest I have never attended any form of school in Albania, I recieved my education in the United States of America. Thus , available at my disposal is a wealth of knowledge from all types of sources , not just Albanian or Slavic sources. That is the difference between you and I , for my sources are unbiased , whereas yours are influenced by Serbian propaganda.

Albania was considered a part of the Ottoman Empire. (After our rebellion , when our leader died , Albania was conquered by the Ottomans and held for nearly 5 centuries). The maps provided prove this, for Albanian lands are labelled under the Ottomans.

In the 19 century , the Ottoman Empire was quickly losing its former strength. Europe saw this as an opportunity to remove the Ottoman presence that had plagued their existance for so long. When Greece and Serbia recieved their indepedence from the Empire , Albania was still under Ottoman administration. The fact that a large percentage of Albanians were Muslim (converted by the Turks) didn't help them , and Europe used it against them. The Serbian propaganda machines were rolling , calling the Albanians Turks because some of them belonged to the Islamic faith (that was forced upon them).

The Treaty of Berlin 1878 ceded large tracts of land to the Balkan countries surrounding Albania, particularly Montenegro. At this point the Slavic countries began an aggressive policy of assimilation in an attempt to effectively colonize the Albanian land that Europe had given them.

Rebellions flared up, but did not amount to much, until 1911 when the Albanian flag was raised for the first time in nearly 5 centuries to declare Albanian independence from the Ottoman empire. The Albanians saw their lands being divided and knew they had to act fast. In their rebellion , they began taking back Albanian cities from the Ottoman Empire.

They were successful and had reclaimed a significant portion of land in what is today called Macedonia. However, it was at this time that the Serbs took it upon themselves to declare war on the "Ottomans," and were supported by Europe (nobody like the Turks and everyone wanted them out). But in reality, the Serbs were only interested in gaining land because the Albanians had already beaten the Ottomans back. So it went something like this:

Albanians fight Turks and reclaim their land => Serbia declares war on "Ottoman Empire" => Serbia fights Albanians to conquer Albanian land

This is known as the Balkan wars. The Serbs went on a genocide march through Shkodra (even as far down as Tirana) killing Albanians. The independence of the Albanian state was proclaimed in the Southern port city of Vlora (Illyrian VALONA) in 1912. The chauvinistic Slavs took this opportunity to feast on the land and tried to take as much as they could.

Europe did not know how to handle the Albanian problem , they just split it up and gave it to its neighbors. In fact , around the time of WWI , Italy was promised the remainder of Albania in a secret treaty. The reason the Albanian state exists today is not because of Europe , but because of AMERICAN PRESIDENT WOODROW WILSON. His belief in the concept of Self Determination , and his persistance to save the Albanian people , helped ensure the Albanians a state , even it was only half of its original size.

The Albanians agreed under the logic that some is better than none. They would have rather had a state half the size of Albania than no state at all.

Half of Albanian lands and cities are thus outside the modern state of Albania. They are not for the Slavic countries to claim as their own because they are Albanian. Thus your original city list was flawed.

PS , The hero that you refer to was an Albanian born man whose name was slavicized by the Serbs so that they could claim him for themselves.

LAnkou , your Serbian city list is much more acceptable than the ones that the nationalstic myth driven Serbs have provided. Thanks.This deserves to be deleted.
So much hatred, so much historical nonsense... doesnt even deserve to be commented. Maps with some "ancient boundries"... Do you know how it sounds historically incorrect? How naive does it sounds? And how stupid? It's like you wrote it when you were 10 years old.
If there was ban for stupid things written on this forum you would be banned forever.
And all that in my SERBIAN mod thread.

Thanks for help:) I hope Velja will take your advices serious:scan:

@Velja - Andrej ti je zaista najbolji moder za jedinice na sajtu. Fireaxes je stavio sve njegove opcije kao oficijalne i na originalnom CivIII sajtu. Mislim da bi bilo dobro da ga poslusas:) Pozdrav obojici -DraganI am taking it serious. I like first strike idea, with woodsman I. Sounds very good to me.

This deserves to be deleted.
So much hatred, so much historical nonsense... doesnt even deserve to be commented. Maps with some "ancient boundries"... Do you know how it sounds historically incorrect? How naive does it sounds? And how stupid? It's like you wrote it when you were 10 years old.
If there was ban for stupid things written on this forum you would be banned forever.
And all that in my SERBIAN mod thread.

Yeah! yeah!. Why dont you try to do some research on the internet, if you want i can prove nearly everything Shqype Said ( i didnt read it all, its late here, i will read it tomorow). No coment deserves to be deleted if it's not agains forum rules.
And Taliking about Albanian History, Albanian History together with illyrian history are very underated and nobody cares about it at all.

Oh and i'd like to say that nearly every nation in the balkans has a overhyped history including Albania too.

I'll Try to Add some coments Tomorow perhaps, have a good night boys :)

Oh and i forgot, this is a realy good mod and i think that there should be an Balkan Civs mod including all balkan Civs.

well, i added the serbian in Superciv (V1.04 currently uploading)
i don't why people are so hatred on this thread...we are talking about a game, a very nice serbian mod, and it looks like a dispute between people. Stop this and back on topic! (I complain Velja)

What will be the next changes in this mod?

...a great serbian mod...

This mode may be great, and serbian, but once you put great before serbian it gets a whole different meaning and goes somewhere where you do not want to go. Dont use those two adjectives linked, it gets messy. :crazyeye: ;)

is it the same with nice or fun?

so i can edit my post ;)

no, only great is touchy, since it refers to a political project.

I am learning a lot from this thread..
I'm ready for some Balkan scenarios, if we can get a good map.
(i know i said i wasn't gonna post again :banana:

What will be the next changes in this mod?New leader and (I guess) Hajduk unit changed.

How this sounds to you (Only people who are familiar with Serbian history):

First Leader:
-Stefan Dusan
Organized,
Spiritual
favorite civic: Hereditary rule

Second leader:
-Karadjordje:
Aggressive(we all know why),
Philosophical???(+100% great people - Vuk Karadzic, Dositej Obradovic, I'd say Njegos too, but some people would find it irritating)
favorite civic: Nationhood???

-Hajduk:
strength: 9
1 first strike
Guerilla I (like player1 fanatic told me)

-Add (misteriously forgotten in original version) city of Prizren


If you (Alone, player1 fanatic, Corey, srdjann, Djangolinn) agree on this I'll make it this evening.

How this sounds to you (Only people who are familiar with Serbian history):

First Leader:
-Stefan Dusan
Organized,
Spiritual
favorite civic: Hereditary rule

Good!
(Dusan's Code of Laws, plus family "knack" for monastiries)
Monarchy fits well too.

EDIT:
Although Expansionist/Organized could fit well, if we look on Dusan as Dusan instead of Nemanic.

Second leader:
-Karadjordje:
Aggressive(we all know why),
Philosophical???(+100% great people - Vuk Karadzic, Dositej Obradovic, I'd say Njegos too, but some people would find it irritating)
favorite civic: Nationhood???

Agreed, Philosophical is good choice, as well as Agressive.
Nationalhood is good civic choice too.

I guess if you ever add Milos Obrenovic he should definetly be Finnancial (one of the richest man in whole Balkan, was mony lender to most of rulers in area)

-Hajduk:
strength: 9
1 first strike
Guerilla I (like player1 fanatic told me)

Ok :goodjob:

Er, Lankou has just released the 1.04 CuperCiv with Serbia as one of the Civs.

When Velja makes these changes, is it possible/easy to update the SuperCiv Mod with Velja's new changes for Serbia only?

i will udpate it so people doesn't need to work...

however, i will try to get some work done apart from the update (add other civ, for example)

This deserves to be deleted.
So much hatred, so much historical nonsense... doesnt even deserve to be commented. Maps with some "ancient boundries"... Do you know how it sounds historically incorrect? How naive does it sounds? And how stupid? It's like you wrote it when you were 10 years old.
If there was ban for stupid things written on this forum you would be banned forever.
And all that in my SERBIAN mod thread.
Is that your way of dealing with things that you don't agree with? Delete them? Kind of like what Serbia did to the Albanians, right?

My post was not stupid , but relevant. Many false comments were made that had to be corrected. I provided historically accurate facts that also happen to pertain to the topic. The original city list was unnacceptable for the reasons that I have stated. Another thing my post accomplished was that is showed the lack of credibility of some of the posters here. Hopefully will do enough to show other forumites that not everything they say in relation to this topic should be taken seriously, especially when it comes from such a skewed viewpoint.

LAnkou, what Anima_Croatum meant about putting the words "Great" and "Serbia" together is their belief in a "Great Serbia" which, according to a Serbian politician, is a Serbian empire comprised of the entire Balkans. This illustrates the aggressive nature of these people and their desire for conquest. Needless to say , it excites great emotion also for those that have been subject to such aggression , and Anima_Croatum made a request to prevent any problems that may arise from using such word choice.

Is that your way of dealing with things that you don't agree with? Delete them? Kind of like what Serbia did to the Albanians, right?

if this is not flaming, i don't know what flaming is....

well, Shqype, you seems to have some trouble with the serbian mod, just do with it like i do with Hitler mod: forget it, don't play it and above all, stop flaming...

even if what you say could be true, i can't believe you since your sayings are so violent and extrem!!! when i read what you wrote, it seems that serbian people only want to kill every albanian, rape their wife, eat their children and conquer the balkans so other slavian could be their slaves...

keep cool, calm down...it's only a game that is the subject of this thread

@Velja: i would really like to know if it wasn't possible to get a women as a leader....there are so much testosterona in Superciv that even Isabella looks like men

Is that your way of dealing with things that you don't agree with? Delete them? Kind of like what Serbia did to the Albanians, right?

My post was not stupid , but relevant. Many false comments were made that had to be corrected. I provided historically accurate facts that also happen to pertain to the topic. The original city list was unnacceptable for the reasons that I have stated. Another thing my post accomplished was that is showed the lack of credibility of some of the posters here. Hopefully will do enough to show other forumites that not everything they say in relation to this topic should be taken seriously, especially when it comes from such a skewed viewpoint.

LAnkou, what Anima_Croatum meant about putting the words "Great" and "Serbia" together is their belief in a "Great Serbia" which, according to a Serbian politician, is a Serbian empire comprised of the entire Balkans. This illustrates the aggressive nature of these people and their desire for conquest. Needless to say , it excites great emotion also for those that have been subject to such aggression , and Anima_Croatum made a request to prevent any problems that may arise from using such word choice.

Shqype, I'm sorry but you're terribly wrong in at least one thing – not all Serbians support criminal politics of Great Serbia and I as a Serbian am very offended because you imply that.

Secondly – there is no difference between someone who supports Great Serbia on one side and someone who supports Great Albania on the other side. Those are both criminal and sick political platforms based on ethnic cleansing. You posted map of Great Albania which is offending in the same level as a map of Greater Serbia so for me there is no difference between you and that guy who asked Velja to put Banja Luka, Knin and Niksic as cities in Serbian mod.

Kosovo is neither just Albanian and neither just Serbian. Kosovo is both Albanian and Serbian because there they live together (or maybe it's better to say "side by side"). If you follow daily politics you must know that final solution for Kosovo status will include that Kosovo must not be joined to any other state in the region which means that Kosovo will never be a part of Great Albania as same as it will never be a part of Great Serbia.

And at the end – all that you posted is irrelevant for this discussion because you can not change history! Historical facts are 100% clear and undenyable, and they say that for an example Prizren was a capital of Serbian medieval state (I'm sure that you too must admit this since you're not malicious). So tell me, how can you forbidd someone to put Prizren into Serbia mod in the game which is primarily based on history?

Asking not to put Prizren or Pec into Serbia mod is just like asking not to put Banja Luka in Bosnia and Herzegovina mod.

By the way Veljo, did you tried to experiment with various AI factors and threasholds that more uniquely shape leader personality when played by AI.

Like when Tokungawa is big isolationist, while Isabla is agressive and values religion more.

How this sounds to you (Only people who are familiar with Serbian history):

First Leader:
-Stefan Dusan
Organized,
Spiritual
favorite civic: Hereditary rule

Second leader:
-Karadjordje:
Aggressive(we all know why),
Philosophical???(+100% great people - Vuk Karadzic, Dositej Obradovic, I'd say Njegos too, but some people would find it irritating)
favorite civic: Nationhood???

-Hajduk:
strength: 9
1 first strike
Guerilla I (like player1 fanatic told me)

-Add (misteriously forgotten in original version) city of Prizren


If you (Alone, player1 fanatic, Corey, srdjann, Djangolinn) agree on this I'll make it this evening.Apsolutelly GREAT:goodjob: :goodjob: Philosofical for Karadjordje exelent choice (better than my creative soulution):goodjob::clap:

@player1 yes, Obrenovic should be financial and the other trait...., I don't know. But I think Karadjordje is a better choice. After all Njegos called him FATHER OF THE NATION
All together, congrutalation to Velja:thumbsup:
Живели!:beer:

We just need some grafic change for UnUnits and 3D leaderheads and it will be truely GREAT Serbian Mod :bounce:

By the way Veljo, did you tried to experiment with various AI factors and threasholds that more uniquely shape leader personality when played by AI.

Like when Tokungawa is big isolationist, while Isabla is agressive and values religion more.Is it posibile to do such things. That would be great.

hmm...what kind of behavours for those two leaders...?

How this sounds to you (Only people who are familiar with Serbian history):

First Leader:
-Stefan Dusan
Organized,
Spiritual
favorite civic: Hereditary rule

Second leader:
-Karadjordje:
Aggressive(we all know why),
Philosophical???(+100% great people - Vuk Karadzic, Dositej Obradovic, I'd say Njegos too, but some people would find it irritating)
favorite civic: Nationhood???

-Hajduk:
strength: 9
1 first strike
Guerilla I (like player1 fanatic told me)

-Add (misteriously forgotten in original version) city of Prizren


If you (Alone, player1 fanatic, Corey, srdjann, Djangolinn) agree on this I'll make it this evening.

To get back on the real subject ;)

Yap that all looks fine to me! I'll try it as soon as you post it and I'll let you know my impressions with Hajduk! :)

Yes it's possible.
All original Civ4 leaders have personality.
It's all in same CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml
But it would be a pain to balance and test properly (more then dozen of values).

Hmn...
Could Cyrus be reskined and remodeled a little to get something usable for Dusan Nemanic?

Shqype, I'm sorry but you're terribly wrong in at least one thing – not all Serbians support criminal politics of Great Serbia and I as a Serbian am very offended because you imply that.
I understand that and appreciate the respect you have included in your post, something that was lacking with some of the other posters.

I did not mean to imply that all of your people support such criminalistic actions, I simply stated that your country has adopted such a policy in the past. There are always exceptions and people that value human life in your country as well as well as all others of the world.

Secondly – there is no difference between someone who supports Great Serbia on one side and someone who supports Great Albania on the other side. Those are both criminal and sick political platforms based on ethnic cleansing. You posted map of Great Albania which is offending in the same level as a map of Greater Serbia so for me there is no difference between you and that guy who asked Velja to put Banja Luka, Knin and Niksic as cities in Serbian mod.
That is false. I did not post a map of Greater Albania, I posted a map of ETHNIC ALBANIA: the Albania under the control of the Ottoman Empire before half of the Albanian land was given to Albania's neighbors. The land that today contains ethnic Albanians indigenous to the areas in which they live. That is a huge difference.

I'll take care of the rest later.

Hmn...
Could Cyrus be reskined and remodeled a little to get something usable for Dusan Nemanic?Ho Ho Ho We think the same!:goodjob: My opinion also is that Cyrus look mostly as Car Dusan's personality:goodjob:

edit: as for Karadjordje maybe Napoleon. I know they don't have simular personality in game but they lived in same period and both were great tacticians, so maybe some twist of him for Vožd...?

Hmn...
Could Cyrus be reskined and remodeled a little to get something usable for Dusan Nemanic?There is soooo many options that I had no patience to deal with them. Would you do it maybe?



P.S.
Shqype boy shut up, we all know which country had their SS units back in WWII, which country was friendly host for Osama Bin Laden, and which country is Europe's black whole considering drug dealers, trafficking, weapon trading, stolen cars (mostly Mercedes) trading. Yeah, yeah, it's Albanistan.

Really there is so many options for making this Civ better... Unfortunetlly as I said exepct of some ideas not much help from me as I am not good in any moding computer skill:( ... Veljo:) thanks for giving oportunity to everyone who can help in suggestion and work to make your mod better (as it is also representation of all us) and we shoud all strive to be (one of) the best.

As for so many spoilers of this thread...don't worry everyone shows there nature and for objectiv people is clear whos doing what here. If you're realy harmed with some of theres posts here, maybe I (we) could ask some of the moderators to clean thread a bit.

Back on topic again: I don't know about possibilities of language that units speak. I guess it's almost impossible to do something... but is it possible to transfer the pack of Russians units speach, as it is most simular, than any other in this game, to our language (and look bit as old Serbian spoken in the time of Stefan Dusan...) What do you guys think...?

well, if someone can record wave file, and just say the sentences (18 IIRC), it's just two changes to do....

well, if someone can record wave file, and just say the sentences (18 IIRC), it's just two changes to do....So Veljo we should expect maybe than to hear your voice shouting "Razumem!" or simular;) :D
@LAnkou There were no female leaders in Serbian history worth to be included (if any?) unfortunetlly. As it's the same for almost whole area. Maybe we can expect some lady to be prime minister of Serbia in future (kind of Magy Tacher, I would prefer:D )

@LAnkou There were no female leaders in Serbian history worth to be included (if any?) unfortunetlly. As it's the same for almost whole area. Maybe we can expect some lady to be prime minister of Serbia in future (kind of Magy Tacher, I would prefer:D )
I shiver in fear that someone will suggest that we put Ceca... brrrr :cringe:

This thread will get back on topic now. I don't want to see any Off Topic stuff here anymore and if I do it will get deleted. In particular, Shqype, I don't see if you can contribute to this thread, so watch what you post.

veljo or someone, you can take old movies like "bitka na ceru" and "kosovski boj" and make some wave files for the game. something like "drino jebem ti...". just joke for the last sentence. :)

Veljo,what do you think King Petar I as second leader?
Serbian:Pošto vidim da nas ima dosta iz Srbije koji su zainteresovani za ovaj mod(a dosta nas je iz bg-a) šta mislite da se svi udružimo i svako sa svojim znanjem doprinese ovom modu!Javljajte se.

Veljo,what do you think King Petar I as second leader?
Serbian:Pošto vidim da nas ima dosta iz Srbije koji su zainteresovani za ovaj mod(a dosta nas je iz bg-a) šta mislite da se svi udružimo i svako sa svojim znanjem doprinese ovom modu!Javljajte se.

Serbian: prvo nismo iz beograda svi, ja sam u zemunu :) salim se ja sam za samo ne znam bas to da radim ali sam za sve kombinacije da ovo bude sto bolje!!!

sorry guys this is internal agreement serbs from belgrade to help velja and make the best mod ever

veljo or someone, you can take old movies like "bitka na ceru" and "kosovski boj" and make some wave files for the game... This sounds as a good Idea (But I guess needs lot of time and works). When the priest spreding the religion to city he should be saying (some sentence from those movies, exampl.) something like "Pomozi Bože":D
OK Kids you're at home, fatherland Serbia, so do what you can:D


As for Velja and rest of us that cheering for REDSTAR Belgrade, since they won against Roma(ns) /not even Caesar could help them tonight/, we all should have more motivation to complet this;) :) Congratulate:goodjob:

edit:Corey -i think we agree on Dusan i Djordje for leaders. Petar I could be good for some mod about Balkan or WWI wars (as well as Infantry unit Serbian "Vojnik" (or so) sa šajkačom i u kaki uniformi)
But that is also for some other thread.

As for Velja and rest of us that cheering for REDSTAR Belgrade, since they won against Roma(ns) /not even Caesar could help them tonight/, we all should have more motivation to complet this;) :) Congratulate:goodjob:
Woo hooooooo ZVEEEZDAAAA :D

Good luck with the mod.

Anyone have a list of all the things the sayings that need to be recorded?

So Veljo we should expect maybe than to hear your voice shouting "Razumem!" or simularI'm not a best option for that, especially since I've lost my voice last evening on Red Star - Roma match (three Caesars couldnt stop Zigic yesterday).



veljo or someone, you can take old movies like "bitka na ceru" and "kosovski boj" and make some wave files for the game. I think i could (just open a movie in SoundForge, select the part you need and save it as .mp3 or .wav), but problem is - I dont have those movies.

This sounds as a good Idea (But I guess needs lot of time and works). When the priest spreding the religion to city he should be saying (some sentence from those movies, exampl.) something like "Pomozi Bože"Actually I think priests say the same, no matter what nation they are.

Anyone have a list of all the things the sayings that need to be recorded?No, but you can just listen to english version, and translate it.

Anybody... is there an option to listen different kind of music depending what civ are you playing with? I have some good ideas for Serbia (if possible). I've found perfect one for medieval age: Sanja&Balkanika - Hilandar. Song Simonida by same artists is interesting for later period.
But Hilandar - perfect. :banana:

I don't think so.

But there is still question of diplomacy music (for 3 eras).

well, you here the diplo music at certain moment of the game, but that's all

What player1 ment that is possible to gave Serbian leaders specific diplo music as any other leader have. That would be nice to incorprate Velja's ideas with Balkanika or simular, for Dusan and for Karadjordje I'm suggesting something with Trumpets (in Serbian Kolo or Marš na Drinu style). As for mentioned movies theres a chance that someone bring a CD copy to you of all those guys in Belgrade and surounding area).

As for mentioned movies theres a chance that someone bring a CD copy to you of all those guys in Belgrade and surounding area).I think its better if someone record it. Just listen to English or American and translate it. It's in Civ4\Assets\Sounds\Units\ . That requires no programming skills ;) :p . It should be about 350 kb - not huge, so you can send me on e-mail.

Anybody... is there an option to listen different kind of music depending what civ are you playing with? I have some good ideas for Serbia (if possible). I've found perfect one for medieval age: Sanja&Balkanika - Hilandar. Song Simonida by same artists is interesting for later period.
But Hilandar - perfect. :banana:

Seka Aleksić is better. And Dara Bubamara.

This post is seen as mocking by other users. Please watch the comments next time.

What about Slovenian and Bosniak mods? Nobody thinks about them :(

What about Slovenian and Bosniak mods? Nobody thinks about them :(

post about it here: Link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=145414)

no point in cluttering this thread with unrelated stuff

Seka Aleksić is better. And Dara Bubamara.I was thinking more of Delije Sever - Sto ste dosli kada ste znali for modern era. :p

Depends what you're into, to each his own, but if you gonna do a Marakana theme, then do Prljavo, Prljavo. :p

Depends what you're into, to each his own, but if you gonna do a Marakana theme, then do Prljavo, Prljavo. :p

then anima for maksimir you have to put ceca-beograd :lol: :D :p

Depends what you're into, to each his own, but if you gonna do a Marakana theme, then do Prljavo, Prljavo. :pIf I were in your place(thanks heavens I'm not), I couldnt even think of Marakana, after what happened to your teams on this stadium. :p

P.S.
I hope you know the text of theme I mentioned. :mischief:

History is on our side. We will bury you. That last game was just a minor setback.

out of subject: thanks to milovan sikimic who manage to score a goal for Guingamp (victory 3-1) against Clermont

Anima Croatorum you're so funny guy :)) šta misliš da ubacite Severinu kao UU i specijalna sposobnost da puši ostalim vojnicima :))
English only, please.

Serverina would imbalance the game. The morale boost she would offer would make Croat forces invincible. It would just be too much.

English only, please.

You are lucky that moderators don't know Serbian/Croatian. :D

C'mon guys... don't do that.

As for sports fans, there is a good sport section on this site where you can talk about that subject, I highly recomending you:thumbsup:

Back on topic: @ Velja - See my newest pm to you. I'm just going to do orders and selects for Serbian units, and I'll send that to you but I need your E-Mail. I already send you mine. I hope I'll do it OK.

@ player1 - can you do the twist for characters of leaders?

hardly
I don't really have much time to tweak those, or understand what exactly every value means.

I think it's best just to copy/paste info used by some of original leaders, which have behaviour that is closest to what Serbian leaders should have.

Which leaders?
I have no idea.

Vozdra,

Are you guys planing in creating anything for Bosnia and Hercegovina? I'd be glad to help you out in any way.

Here are some usefull links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tvrtko_Kotromani%C4%87
http://www.zemljabosna.com/sadrzaj1.html

Flag:
http://www.zemljabosna.com/grbtvrtko.jpg

sick
now i can play as Serbia.

now yaz need to make a Wonder to Sault Arkan :D

and some cetnik forces :king: :D

hardly
I don't really have much time to tweak those, or understand what exactly every value means.

I think it's best just to copy/paste info used by some of original leaders, which have behaviour that is closest to what Serbian leaders should have.

Which leaders?
I have no idea.

I think as you earlier suggested for Dusan should be Cyrus.
And for Karadjordje I suggest Napoleon behavoure to be paste into that Serbian leader file.

PS I did all 20 voices for orders and select units:blush: :blush: :blush: I'll send that to Velja as soon as he give his Mail Address. I mostly translated English/American files voices, but I was creative a little bit in some casses so if Velja thinks it's good enough you may here as well "Za Kralja i Otadzbinu", " 'ajmo uz bozju pomoc" or "Sluzimo Narodu:D "
It's 452KB zipped
I don't know if it's too loud or too quiet, but I guess it can be lowered or upered somehow.
If not, at least we tried...

Manijak - in the first post on this page Anima posted a link were you can discuss about that future civ-mod.

History is on our side. We will bury you. That last game was just a minor setback.I'm sorry guys, but I have to comment this.

Hehe, what history is on your side? History of losing?

I think you mean national team history. May I remember that twice senior teams met, in European Championship qualifications, both time was tied, But Serbia(still Yugoslavia back then) was first in the group, while Croatia was third. U21 NTs met five times, Serbia won three times, Croatia once, and once was tied. And if you're talking about teams from Serbia vs teams from Croatia its even getting better. It's 5-1 in victories for Serbia. ;) But if we talk just about Marakana its: SER 0-0 CRO, Red Star 4-0 Inter Zapresic, SER U21(with 9 players) 3-1 CRO U21.

Definitly history is on your side :D .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/brownbeard/wekickass.jpg

:p

please don't speak about sport!!! and we are existing more then scg!!!
so...... just dont speak about that
ok?

Are you crazy Anima? You are getting up in 2005 without a team in europe? :)

This is official ranking:

# country 01/02 02/03 03/04 04/05 05/06 rank06 nt06
1 Spain 14.857 15.500 14.312 12.437 8.214 65.320 6/ 7
2 Italy 12.571 15.928 8.875 14.000 9.071 60.445 7/ 7
3 England 11.571 10.666 11.250 15.571 9.571 58.629 6/ 7
4 France 7.125 7.916 13.500 11.428 6.812 46.781 7/ 8
5 Germany 13.500 9.142 4.714 10.571 6.562 44.489 6/ 8
6 Portugal 9.375 10.750 10.250 8.166 3.833 42.374 3/ 6
7 Netherlands 10.166 6.166 5.416 12.000 5.250 38.998 4/ 6
8 Greece 11.250 7.166 4.166 6.166 2.666 31.414 3/ 6
9 Russia 2.333 3.625 5.875 10.000 7.750 29.583 3/ 4
10 Belgium 5.875 6.875 5.875 6.125 4.750 29.500 2/ 4
11 Scotland 6.625 7.375 7.375 4.750 3.250 29.375 1/ 4
12 Ukraine 3.625 4.250 4.875 8.100 5.500 26.350 2/ 4
13 Czech Republic 5.500 6.200 7.375 2.875 3.875 25.825 2/ 4
14 Turkey 5.625 4.666 6.500 5.375 3.500 25.666 2/ 4
15 Romania 2.625 2.166 4.333 5.500 9.833 24.457 3/ 3
16 Switzerland 6.125 5.875 1.875 2.625 6.375 22.875 3/ 4
17 Bulgaria 4.833 4.166 4.166 2.375 6.250 21.790 3/ 4
18 Israel 8.333 5.833 2.250 3.625 1.500 21.541 1/ 4
19 Norway 3.250 2.700 6.125 3.500 5.400 20.975 3/ 5
20 Austria 3.375 4.000 2.125 7.625 3.250 20.375 1/ 4
21 Serbia-Montenegro 3.166 4.833 4.500 4.250 3.000 19.749 1/ 4
22 Poland 4.125 6.625 4.125 2.500 1.125 18.500 4
23 Denmark 4.500 3.250 4.200 1.500 3.500 16.950 1/ 4
24 Hungary 1.500 3.166 4.833 4.166 1.000 14.665 3
25 Croatia 4.375 2.750 3.625 3.000 0.333 14.083 3

Or in graph:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/crank.png


I'm sorry guys about sport post, but I cannot take lies.

FIFA says otherwise

What you have shown is NT ranking, what I've shown is club's ranking.

Indeed, to each his own. I prefer national teams over clubs. Someone might prefer clubs over national teams.

Velja, is version 1.01 still the current version?

Not sure if someone asked before, but is there a chance of a modified soundtrack depending ona which Civ you play, and now, depending on which modded nation you play? It would be awesome to have quite instrumentals of "Marš na Drinu" and "Bože Pravde" in the background.

edit - suggestion to fix in the next build:

The pink circle shows instead of "button" picture of Hajduk when a Hajduk unit gets active in the part of the map that is not shown on the screen.

Is it just me or new UU formation is a bit too much spread out compared to original units (same problem with Yugolslav mod too)?


EDIT:
You can add seperate diplo music.
Game supports having 3 tunes for 3 different eras (in case of original civs these are just remixes of same music), seperate tunes for different leaders.

Also, same music is used when fully zooming the city.

In that case, it's up to Velja. If anyone needs, I have these mp3s:

1. Bože Pravde (hor) (4:59)
2. Onamo Onamo (3:24)
3. Svetosavska Himna (5:11)
4. Oj Srbijo Mila Mati (3:31)
5. Trubni Znak Za Povecerje Srpske Vojske (1:18)
6. Hej Trubacu S Bujne Drine (3:16)
7. Rado Ide Srbin U Vojnike (2:26)
8. Doline Tutnje (4:26)
9. Razvilo Se Ravno Polje Prilepsko (3:44)
10. Kapetan Koča (2:50)
11. Tobdžijsko Kolo (Svistovka) (2:09)
12. Tamo Daleko (2:47)
13. Kreće Se Lađa Francuska (4:17)
14. Nizamski Rastanak (2:45)
15. Marš Na Drinu (3:17)
16. Tamo Daleko (Instrumental) (3:25)
17. Krece Sa Lađa Francuska (Instrumental) (2:23)
18. Kapetan Koča (Instrumental) (1:52)
19. Marš Vojvode Stepe Stepanovića (1:47)
20. Oj Moravo (Mars) (2:16)
21. Kolo 32ge Klase (1:12)
22. Tobdžijsko Kolo (2:01)
23. Oj Srbijo mati, nemoj tugovati, zovi samo zovi (3:16)
24. Marš na Drinu (instrumental) (3:45)
25. Marš na Drinu (instrumental, u izvođenju Smaka) (3:05)

If it's only a question of three, I would definitely pick (1), (16) and (24).

ok ja zam takodje za tu varijantu 1, 16, 24. numeru 23. mozes da izbacis iz ponude obzirom da nije samo nasa, tj istu koracnicu koriste i hrvati.

I don't think it's important if Croats have their own version. That was the anthem of Sokolsko Društvo which had parts in both Serbia and Croatia. If there could be 10 songs in there, I'm sure I would definitely have that as one of the 10.

Still, if it's only three, it can really be "Bože Pravde" (instrumental might be better, I'll try to find it), "Tamo daleko" and "Marš na Drinu" instrumentals.

BTW, I forgot "Marširala Kralja Petra garda" in the above list.

There is two leaders so it needs two diferent type of music.

For Stefan Dusan Velja said he will put some Balkanika instrumental (wich I think it's OK, knowing some music of that band could sound great actually).

As for Karadjordje I agreed with you two guys so Boze Pravde, Tamo Daleko i Mars na Drinu (but they have to be simular /in musical way/ to each other - if they are not, maybe better variant could be 1. 3. and 4. or 16.?)

Also I hope it will sound good the orders and selects that I sended to him, so it lets diplo music issue and Characters for both leaders (it may be the same as Franch leaders as well, LouisXIV for Dusan and Napoleon for Djordje!!)

And than at the end 3d leaderheads and recreated (graphics way) Hajduk unit (I already sugested he had to have Šubara and Kubure (instead the musket:) )

Fair enough, I'm just suggesting, but I would have traditional songs any day over Balkanika, which although sounds quite nice, are just contemporary poppy-go-ethnic-because-ethnic-is-trendy-right-now tunes. Just my opinion :)

As we are going for a medieval leader and a 19-th century leader, perhaps we could organise them like that:

Stefan Dušan: (3), (9), and... what else could pass as a medieval song?
Karađorđe: (1), (16), (24)

....
As we are going for a medieval leader and a 19-th century leader, perhaps we could organise them like that:

Stefan Dušan: (3), (9), and... what else could pass as a medieval song?
....

hm.. maybe Oj,Moravo (20) but NOT march. If you have also some choir or instrumental version of that traditional song it would be OK, I guess for Dusan....

I'm thinking a lot about this tonight... :) how about:

Great prophets:
-Sveti Sava
-Ćirilo
-Metodije
-Sveta Petka
-Vasilije Ostroški

Great engineers:
-Rade Neimar? ;)
... any more? Rade probably built everything everywhere in Serbia at any time :king:
-Milutin? He was a king rather than architect, but during his reign, Hilandar and Gračanica were built
-Stefan Dečanski - same reason

Great scientists:
-Vuk Karadžić
-Dositej Obradović
-Branko Radičević

Great artists:
-Sava Šumanović
-Emir Kusturica
-Danilo Kiš*
-Slobodan Selenić
-Miloš Crnjanski
-Ivo Andrić*

*-ipak mislim da su ovo više jugoslovenski nego srpski pisci

Great entertainers:
Jeez... no narodnjaci and turbo-folk girlies, please :D Maybe Sale Đorđević, Dragan Stojković Piksi, Vlade Divac...guys like that brought more joy and brought more people out on the streets than any other 'entertainer' in history!

for great prophets you can add:
sv. nikolaj velimirovic

and for medival music (for dusan) you can put agni partene, the best chor of atos (i'll try to find it). dusan founded that monastery. it is greek, but his title was king of serbs and greeks.

sorry emperor!!! :) and you can add desanka maksimovic

24. Marš na Drinu (instrumental) (3:45)
25. Marš na Drinu (instrumental, u izvođenju Smaka) (3:05)

If it's only a question of three, I would definitely pick (1), (16) and (24).

Hmm...
What about, in tradition of original Civ4 leaders (one theme several remixes), we pick 24 for medieval, and 25 for modern music, in case of Karadjordje, whith something else just for anicent era (older?).

Just look original diplo music, all tunes are done this way.
Better use this one opportunity where we actually have one song with two different versions.

As for Dusan music, no idea.

Actually, I like this idea. It makes perfect sense, and although I would probably feel sorry not having Bože Pravde or Tamo Daleko on it, it may be simpler and better to have two versions of one song.

Plus, I wouldn't even differentiate between Karađorđe and Dušan when I think about it. One song, two versions, for both leaders is my suggestion.

So you mean something like:
-classic version for both ancient (early) and medieval/renessanse (middle)
-smak version for industrial/modern (late)

Although I would not object of having different tune for ancient era.
Or different tunes for Dusan.

But, to save some space (too many modem users, mp3 take lots of space), having just two version of "March on Drina", for next version of mod for both leaders is OK compromise.

Exactly. For both Dušan and Karađorđe we would have a classic instrumental piece in ancient and medieval times, and for the modern age Smak jamming "Marš" on the guitar.

Lankou's SuperCiv is already 25 megabytes without the sound files, and more than 70 with sound files. If we were to put three mp3 files, that would already be huge, let alone 6!

Like this, we keep it to large, but reasonable 6.x megabytes.

Seka Aleksić - Balkan

Seka Aleksić - Balkan
Jesus :rolleyes: Let's try to keep some sense of culture...

In that case, it's up to Velja. If anyone needs, I have these mp3s:

1. Bože Pravde (hor) (4:59)
2. Onamo Onamo (3:24)
3. Svetosavska Himna (5:11)
4. Oj Srbijo Mila Mati (3:31)
5. Trubni Znak Za Povecerje Srpske Vojske (1:18)
6. Hej Trubacu S Bujne Drine (3:16)
7. Rado Ide Srbin U Vojnike (2:26)
8. Doline Tutnje (4:26)
9. Razvilo Se Ravno Polje Prilepsko (3:44)
10. Kapetan Koča (2:50)
11. Tobdžijsko Kolo (Svistovka) (2:09)
12. Tamo Daleko (2:47)
13. Kreće Se Lađa Francuska (4:17)
14. Nizamski Rastanak (2:45)
15. Marš Na Drinu (3:17)
16. Tamo Daleko (Instrumental) (3:25)
17. Krece Sa Lađa Francuska (Instrumental) (2:23)
18. Kapetan Koča (Instrumental) (1:52)
19. Marš Vojvode Stepe Stepanovića (1:47)
20. Oj Moravo (Mars) (2:16)
21. Kolo 32ge Klase (1:12)
22. Tobdžijsko Kolo (2:01)
23. Oj Srbijo mati, nemoj tugovati, zovi samo zovi (3:16)
24. Marš na Drinu (instrumental) (3:45)
25. Marš na Drinu (instrumental, u izvođenju Smaka) (3:05)

If it's only a question of three, I would definitely pick (1), (16) and (24).


What do you think about this: Zlatna Kruna Cara Dusana? (2:44)

I finally installed the Serbian mod last night and tried it out , and to be honest I wasn't in the least bit impressed. The Civilopedia entries need alot of work.

They do seem a bit messed up at my computer.
(not complaining about content)

Even the content could use some work. I'm dissapointed that the Civilopedia entries were simply "cut and pasted" from the internet. At least the sources were listed (you didn't plagiarize), but one would think you would know enough about your country's history to write about it yourself. Some parts of the civilopedia are also written in "broken english."

As for the Hajduk unit , it isn't too overpowered and a good choice.

great scientist: milutin milankovic
great engineeir: mihajlo pupin, nikola tesla

I prefer universal use of wikipedia. It removes questions of objectivity. Least said, soon is mended.

I prefer universal use of wikipedia. It removes questions of objectivity

Wikipedia is an unreliable source because it allows virtually anyone to change posted information and acts to "alter" history.

Wikipedia is an unreliable source because it allows virtually anyone to change posted information and acts to "alter" history.

i agree whit you!!! (first time)

Here is some bolshlt I just created to prove my point:

Although Croatia declared its independence from Yugoslavia in 1991, it had to endure four-to-five years of sporadic and often bitter fighting with the Yugoslav People's Army and the Army of the internationally unrecognized Republic of Serbian Krajina. The Croatian major offensives in 1995, Operation Storm and Operation Flash, defeated the separatists and ended the war, restoring the territories of Krajina to Croatia. As a result, several hundred thousands of Croatian Serbs fled and their property was subsequently seized or destroyed. Some of the most prominent officials in charge of operations Flash and Storm, such as General Ante Gotovina, have been charged with war crimes by the ICTY. Between 1992 and late 1995, various Croatian forces were also involved in the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Peaceful integration of the remaining separatist territories was completed in 1998 under UN supervision. These separatists are rumored to be martians from space intent on the destruction of the former Yugoslavia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia

See my point?

Vandalism is not apreciated and anyone with minimum IQ can spot it outright. If an article has questionable content, its neutrality has long been contested and there is history and a discussion page.

Anyway, Wikipedia has more credibility than any national source. Esp. Balkanese sources.

That was pretty flagrant (for the purpose of proving the point). Just understand that there are many pieces of information that appear to be correct (or at least possible) and this plausibility can allow some untrue portions of history to survive on Wikipedia.

For Balkan sources , it is good to see what others say as well (British, American, German, French, etc. sources).

The problem with less transparent sources is that truths tend to cloud facts and this creates smoke. And where there is smoke, flames are bound to appear. While it might create that well known Balkan flavor, its more likely to let you make a spectacle of yourselves to people not accustomed to this spice blend.

Anima and Shqype there is also nice Off Topic forum where you can disscuss some realated topic of "wickipedia- good or bad" or whatever you like. Also higly recomanding (but it's only for those with good nervs there:D). so please stop bashing thread. Thanks.

and now BACK ON TOPIC again

This pick can be usefull for hajduk's uniform in graphic re-creation of that unit.
Picture of death of one of the most favorite Hajduk in Serbian History.
HAJDUK VELJKO!

for great prophets you can add:
sv. nikolaj velimirovic

I hope that this proposal will not be implemented beacuse Nikolaj was a great Hitler admirerer and spiritual leader of fascist movement of nazi colaborator Dimitrije Ljotic...

About the songs - I'll propose "Mars na Drinu" (an excelent war song which was used by many modern artists - Laibach for an example), "Tamo daleko" (I think this song would be very nice for background music) and "Marsirala Kralja Petra garda" (which I like from musical aspect and dislike the text - it's ridiculous :D)

"Oj Srbijo mati" and "Oj Hrvatska mati" are both versions of one of the first Yugoslav songs ("Jugoslavska mati") and that's the explaination why there are two almost same versions (both Serbian and Croatian) of this song...

I hope that this proposal will not be implemented beacuse Nikolaj was a great Hitler admirerer and spiritual leader of fascist movement of nazi colaborator Dimitrije Ljotic...

please try to be ojective!!! if you are posting something PLEASE take more than one book to write about something. ok i underestand that you admire tito etc but you can read other books.

Are you trying to say that Nikolaj didn't compare Adolf Hitler with Saint Sava in his book "Nacionalizam Svetog Save" in 1937 (or 1938.) (which is actually his speech)? That book is all about giving an ode to Hitler!!!

Are you trying to say "ok, well, that's just one book"?

Are you trying to say that Nikolaj wasn't closest friend and ideologyst of Dimitrije Ljotic and his fascisct movement? He even held post mortal speech on Ljotic's funeral!!! I'm sure that I don't have to mention that in Serbia Ljotic was something like Ante Pavelic was in Croatia...

Nikolaj's books are full of anti-semitism and I'm sure that no one who feels like Serb would like to see Serbian mod with fascist and pro-nazi elements...

And at the end - Tito doesn't have to do anything with this. Why are you mentioning him then? Out of arguments?

On the other hand having unique great people is almost unimplentable in the game so for me this is the end of the discussion.

please try to be ojective!!! if you are posting something PLEASE take more than one book to write about something. ok i underestand that you admire tito etc but you can read other books.
Kovač, Srđan is absolutely right regarding Nikolaj. Not just about available sources, but from all neo-nazi movements that exist i nSerbia today like Nacionalni Stroj and Obraz who often quote him as their spiritual leader.

I do not think he should be a representative at all.

ok, my apologize to srdjann but i still think that he is the great man in serbian history and in ortodox christianity. sorry about mentioning tito. i tought it is the same story about chetniks and ustashas. for the record i don't like chetniks and partizans equally, and about ustashas i don't want to talk at all. ok.....

what happened whit music ???

That's up to Velja, it's his mod. ;) He's probably busy with other things...

Veljo, if you need technical help with how to incorporate mp3s if you wish to do that, Srđan has already done it for Yugoslavia mod, and there are some explanations on his topic.

That's up to Velja, it's his mod. ;) He's probably busy with other things...

Veljo, if you need technical help with how to incorporate mp3s if you wish to do that, Srđan has already done it for Yugoslavia mod, and there are some explanations on his topic.
I was very busy last week(and I still am), because of faculty...

What do you think of this song:
Sedam sati udara Beograd se otvara i otvara ga Djordje u njega da dodje. Djordje na celo i za njim sve vojvode stupaju Beograde.
for Karadjordje?

I would prefer instrumental...

Vocals detract from game too much.


P.S.
That why I liked combination of two "Mars na Drinu" mp3s. They are instrumental.

I agree with Player1. Simplicity would be the order of the day for me.

I tried Srđan's Yugoslavia mod with music (proper song with lyrics) being played and sang. Don't get me wrong, it is a fantastic effect and I like it, but I think I might get bored of it when the novelty wears off...

My vote still goes to "Marš na Drinu", as it is a beautiful traditional Serbian song, and - it is instrumental. Nice, clear and simple. What's better, we have a traditional version for ancient and medieval eras, and a rock'n'roll electric guitar version for modern era.

Of course, it is your mod, Velja ;) This is just my opinion.

One other thing: I am not at home over the weekend, but once I get back, I may do some work on two mp3 files of "Marš na Drinu" if Velja decides to go with them. What I mean is this: Srđan's "Yugoslavia" mod plays the tune "Jugoslavijo" when you zoom in on a city. One thing I would change about it is that I would "cut" or "skip" the "introduction" of the song, i.e. the first several accords until the recogniseable tune begins. This is something I used to do when I was putting our rock melodies as mobile tone rings - they all had 4-5-6 seconds starting with just drums beat that had little or nothing to do with a song tune, and they annoyed me. So I cut them out of the begginning and started the mp3 file at the start of the recogniseable melody.

Would you think that cutting the begginning of "Marš na Drinu" would be good or not? It does have that unique and recognizeable "Dam-dara-rara-dam Dam-dara-rara-dam" intro, but would you really want to hear it every time you zoom in to a city, or would you prefer a start of tune to be the old recogniseable melody?

I'm a sucker for details ;)

Mr_V that something that's done in some of original diplomacy tunes too.

You have an intro part that is only played once (when starting diplomacy), and loop part that replays all the time.

Of course, interesting thing with original tunes is that they are synched so good that you don't notice when song is over and repreat starts.

Anyway, it would be good if you could split it properly.
Othwerwise don't bother.


P.S.
By the way tunes don't restart on every zoom. They continue at point they got stopped after outzooming.

Seka Aleksić - BalkanI'm impressed with your knowledge of Serbian "alternative" artists. Even I didn't hear of Seka Aleksić untill some 2-3 months ago. I dont even know about her "Balkan" song, but if I put Seka I'll put definitly "Crno i zlatno" :p .

My vote still goes to "Marš na Drinu", as it is a beautiful traditional Serbian song, and - it is instrumental. Nice, clear and simple. What's better, we have a traditional version for ancient and medieval eras, and a rock'n'roll electric guitar version for modern era. Marš is out of question, just look at my signature ;) .But do you mean we should put it for all eras?

For simplicity sake:
-original from ancient to renessance (replaces both early and middle songs from original civs)
-Smak version from industrial and later (replaces late song from original civs)

P.S.
I would have no problem with some other instrumental in ancient era instead. But which one? And wouldn't 3 files be a bit too mcuh for a download.


EDIT:
So my proposal for 1st draft (quick release)
2 songs:
-original Mars na Drinu.mp3
-Smak remix of Mars na Drinu.mp3

First for early and middle eras, second for late era
For both leaders.

Looking to the future (and 2nd draft):
-some new tune for Dusan
-possible extra tune for Karadjordje in ancient era

what do you think to put some serbian ortodox instrumental for dusan (ancient time), something about nemanics family or something like that ?

kovach81,
That's good idea.
It could even be something about Sava or similar.

Drina March is just to modern and nationalist to fit well for Dusan (while it fits great for Karadjordje).


Anyway, for age related music, I'm just for one song for Dusan, to keep it in Civ4 spirit, where only remixes are in different eras.


EDIT:
Interesting info I founded is that both Mongol leaders have same music.

Also Aztec for middle and late era use same remix.

These are only exeptions to 3 songs per leader rule.