This is a parallel SG game for team Wacken with slightly different rules.

Game difficulty: Monarch
Player race: Russia.
Ruler - Catherine (Creative, financial. - Mining, Agriculture)
Map: Continents
Everything else: Default
Goal: Learning how to play this game

Invited:
-Gozpel
-Offa
-dmanakho
-Wotan
-grahamiam
-Xevious
-WackenOpenAir

Rules are simple. Everyone on the roster can play 1st 50 turns. Write as detailed write up as possible and post end result. We all will discuss each sequence learn from each other mistakes, pick the best and continue the game as usual SG.

Please report to this thread and i will unlock save file as soon as we have team gathered.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/cathbride.JPG


Save File: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Catherine4000.Civ4SavedGame)

Reserved post just in case.

Ah, you made it already :)

That is gonna be a busy day tomorrow :)

Checking in here too.

ah, good idea on this, btw :)

what's the timeframe for the 1st report? End of the weekend? Hopefully not tomorrow as I won't have time for that.

Looks like only Offa is left to check-in and since he is in England and it is about 2am at the moment we should expect it'll take few more hours before we hear from him.
Goz doesn't have civ4 yet and Wotan never said a Civ4 related word, so i assume he does not have it yet.

Therefore i will unlock the save file later tonight and we can start playing.
I am not going to play until saturday myself most likely.
I don't think we shoul set a patricular date for "50 turn report" since there are very few of us and based on our SGOTM records i don't think we will drag it for too long. However I expect us to start discussions of each other startup sequences by Monday. :)

ok, how about we avoid posting before Sunday night so we don't spoil each other?

Sounds good, in such case I will go ahead and place a link to the save file in my first post and here. no spoilers please until Sunday night.
Since two of us are in Europe lets use their time. l am thinking 21:00 GMT

Save File: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Catherine4000.Civ4SavedGame)

well, no spoilers but we can do some pregame discussion :) and Europe time is good, I'll just avoid looking at the thread on Sunday.

I am planning to move settlers scouts W-SW to check if it is worth to move settlers away from coast. If not i am planning to settle in place. We already have food suprlus where we are.
I think i will follow the 1st thread and get a worker first and then chop second settler ASAP. I hope to spare my scout from wild animal and use scout to escort settler. Risky but scouts are usually a safe bet against animals. I hope i won't see barbarians so early yet.
Research for BW, Animal HUsbandry, Wheel, Archery, Fishing, Pottery.
not exactly in that order, it will depend on what feels right at the moment.
Not going for any of early religions.
I want to have few cities going as soon as possible and start developing them.

so, are you moving the settler 2x if it's not good? well, I'll take a different approach and settle on the spot. since the cow is on the river, i may delay wheel a little longer than you, but not sure as all plans tend to go out the window 10 turns into the game :)

:ack: scouts... i meant moving scouts not settlers.
Of course i would settle in place if scouts don't find anything better after moving west :)

stupid question: what year is turn 50?

Some statistics screen shows how many turns you have to go.

I do not know the total number of turns. If you create a new game you should be able to see that number in this same screen.

AFAIK, 50 turns end exactly in 2000BC.
We start in 4000BC and end in 2000BC. Each turn counts as 40 years.

Well, I've been playing along and realize I've gone past 50 turns. 50 turns is at 2000BC and I went to 1880BC (53 turns). I should have checked where the 50 turn year was sooner. Sorry about that. Maybe everyone can play to that date instead?

EDIT: Again, I post while dman is. :D

Actually, I have a save at 2240 also. I could replay my turns from there if you want to stop at 2000. Whatever you guys decide is fine with me.

Don't you have the autosave from somewhere between 45 and 50 ?

The goal here is not competition, it is to evaluate different plays and discuss about them.

Of course, we want to compare games, options and decisions that are realistic and made with the information that a fair game provides us. So if you replay them, please replay them exactly as you played them before.

53 turns is also very ok with me though.

If you don't have autosave i think 53 turns would be okay.
We can always deduct what your situation was on turn 50 and compare.
Unless you learned how to make miracles in 3 turns :) .

I highly doubt we'll be using my save anyways. :rolleyes: I'd say more but I don't want to spoil anyones game.

@Wacken: Didn't even think about the autosave. Yes, I have one from 2000BC. Loaded it, made the moves from my log and then saved it.

Hello, I will try to play this as well if I get time. I need to play sgotm first though.

Just to let everyone know, I'm playing now. I'm trying to get it done this morning so I don't get spoiled later today :)

Good for you ;)

and everyone is free to post their spoilers today after 21:00GMT (4PM EST)

i just played, but I screwed up the log file (by eotinb) so all my notes were lost :(

I guess you will want to describe your strategy and goals and steps you took to achieve them instead of the log file then.
That's something we all will have to do anyway to present the best early strategy.

yeah, just use alt+e instead of ctrl+e with his mod. it works fine, i'm just an idiot :)

Well, to be sociable I have played to 2000bc. I look forward to seeing what I should have done, although in retrospect at least some of that seems clear.

I didn't play too well i think. I should at least have cut more forests.

I played to turn 53 :)

Here is my quick effort.

4000BC
Scout W-SW. nothing of interest so settle on spot.

Research to BW and build worker at once.

3840BC
Pop a hut: gold.

3680BC
Another hut: gold

3640bc
Buddism founded somewhere.

3520bc
Hut: map (of where I have already been)

3440bc
Bronze working.
Slavery is available but I don’t revolt.

Start animal husbandry,

3400bc
Worker finished and start a settler.

3280bc
Hinduism founded somewhere

3000bc
Settler finished (2forest chops)
Worker has been standing around for 2 turns waiting for animal husbandry.

2960bc
Animal husbandry in, start on wheel.

2880bc
St Petersburg founded on plains hill in north.

2680bc
Wheel
Warriors completed in both towns.
Worker set to mine copper.

2640bc
Scout survives a wolf attack.

2620bc
Scout pops a scout from a hut.

2600bc warrior pops a warrior from a hut

2560bc
Judaism founded somewhere

2520bc
Fishing learnt
Start masonry

2440bc
Scout runs next to a guy with a black flag

2400bc
He wasn’t kind: he killed my scout.

2320bc
Masonry, try archery.

2280bc
Work boat in capital.

2240bc
Second scout killed by barb

2160bc
Start Stonehenge

2120bc
Learn archery and start pottery


2000bc
Over. Pottery due in 2
Stonehenge due in 3.

Only 2 towns.
Barracks built in capital, which seems very wasteful. Barracks nearly finished in second town too.

I got a bit spooked by the barbs and panicked myself into building barracks, which seems a waste of time as I don’t really want to build a military yet.

Ideally I think I should have built another worker and settler instead of the fiddly things I did do. My towns are all working reasonable tiles though.

The tech tree is still a bit of mystery to me.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/2000bc.GIF

I did actually replay, and build 3 towns, instead of messing about with barracks, the third town being one tile closer than Wacken's third town. I take it loose builds are favoured in civ4.

My log is a bit wordy (ok, a lot wordy) compared to most of you. I tend to write down everything. At any rate, I'll include my 1880 save since that's what Wacken did, but I have a 2000BC save available as well.

Here's some highlights from the log:

Founded Moscow in place, and St. Petersburg 2 south of wheat (same as Wacken). At 1880 I have a settler a few turns from settling the horses/pig, and a settler being chopped in St. Pete, probably due out in 7 turns, which would go to the NW area where Wacken's third city is.

I met Egypt accross the water, she is ahead in score. We are all alone on our continent. I have a spear and axe in St. Pete and Moscow but no escort for the settler, this may be a bad thing at this point, but I've been playing all my openings a bit risky in civ4. The spear in St. Pete has movement left, so it could escort the settler. I know there is a barb wandering down by the marble, and the scout is in the NW keeping an eye out for barbs there.

I've learned sailing to allow coastal trading, so the horses and pig will be connected as soon as they are connected to the third city. This tech was probably learned to early, though, as I am still researching pottery.

Much more detail in the attached log.

1880BC Screenshot.

BTW, you may notice the graphic differences between my screenshot and Offa's. I loaded the BlueMarble territory mod, which I think looks really good.

My Goals: have at least two better 3 cities going. Beeing a creative i decided to build stonehedge only if we have stone. With free culture our towns have anyway stonehedge loses half of it's value. Plus as it ended up after i revealed the map our only source of luxury is sugar that means we will have to go for Calendar ASAP which will make stonehedge obsolete sooner than we would do it otherwise.

At turn 50 i had: 3 cities, 2 workers, 4 warriors and scout. All cities were finishing up building barracks.
Technologies researched: Wheel, Agriculture, Hunting, Mining, BW and i am currently researching pottery. My goal is to get few cottages going before we settle more cities otherwise we will have serious budget crisises.
Fishing is also i want to get to get the clam source near Moscow, but it is not urgent since we have much more health luxes and happines will be the problem before health comes into an issue. We should probably beeline for monarchy so we can use our MPs for happiness. Writing is also extremely important to get libraries going. Barbarians will also help in this game. Anytime barbarian town will appear somewhere on empty spot and it will be just a matter of time until we sack that town and join it to Russian empire.
Our treasure has 142 gold and we are running at -3 budget deficit.

Below is my turn log.

T1. 4000BC
1st i decided to move scout W-SW on top of the hill to open a land a little.
I can see nice patch of wheat... Oh well, let me turn on the grid.
There is only one way i can place Moscow to grab cows, wheat and clam.
ALthough, that will make Moscow just one tile from the sea shore with only one sea tile with clams
in city border. So not much is lost and i hope i still can use clams even if Moscow is not a port city. but by moving inland we will have whole lot more of useful tiles to work on.
I just will have to build work boat somewhere else.
I moved settler family one turn west and will find my capital next turn.

T2. 3960BC. Scout W-NW. Moscow is Founded on river and started on worker in 15 turns.
Set research on BW also in 15.
Oh no... i miss sugar just one tile away....
but i guess having two food supplies and cottages on grass will outperform sugar plantation

T3. 3920BC. Scouting

T4. 3880BC. I see sheep and a village.

T5. 3840BC.

T6. 3800BC. Get 40 lousy gold from village.

T7. 3760BC. See another clam, tundra and deers up north.

T8. 3720BC. See another village.
T9. 3680BC. Got a map from village and see lions nearby. Fortify my scouts.
T10. 3640BC. Lions dissapeared. keep scouting
T11. 3600BC. scouting
IBT. Lions appeared again right next to the scout.
T12. 3560C. Run away from lions. See another village.
T13. 3520BC. Going towards village.
T14. 3480BC. Have 35 gold from village
IBT Budhism is founded elsewhere.
T15. 3440BC. Sending my scout back home. Worker next turn and i am planning to use a scout to
escort settler that i am planning to chop next.
T16. 3400BC. BW comes switch to Agriculture. See copper patch nearby.
Wolfes attack my scout. We win but left wounded and i see lions just 2 tiles away. Run Run!!!
T17. 3360BC. Moscow completes Worker->settler. Worker to the woods to chop. Settler is running away
from lions.
t18. 3320BC. Start chopping. settler 2 turns from getting back home.
T19. 3280BC. nothinh
T20. 3240BC. Worker chopped first tile of wood.
T21. 3200BC. Workers moved to the next forest tile. Settler is back in Moscow and needs to
heal for 2 turns.
T22. 3160BC. Workers started chopping wood.
T23. 3120BC. Nothing
IBT. Hinduism is founded elsewhere.
t24. 3080BC Workers chopped second forest tile. Scout went from Moscow in southern direction to
reveal map a little
T25. 3040BC. Scout sees village. WOrkers move to the next tile. Agriculture comes->Anim.Husb.
T26. 3000BC. Village gave me free tech- Masonry. But i don't have stone or marble nearby so
it is pretty useless to have.
T27. 2960BC. Moscow borders have expanded. Moscow settler->worker. Settler to settle on the tile
between copper and sheep. That city will also be able to share clams with Moscow.
T28. 2920BC. Workers chopped wood. Lions appeared next to scout again. We fortify.

IBT. Lions attack we win and promoted. Scout's promotions are not as important, I decided to give
mine 20% forest defence.
T29. 2880BC. I goofed up with my settler. I should have settled W from sheep. Will find new city next turn.
Good thing about Civ4 settlers and workers can move 2 turns so i won't lose anything.

T30. 2840BC. St. Petersburg is founded. Immediate work on warrior is started. I know i am
taking big risks here, but hopefully it will work out. WOrkers chopping yet another forest.

T31. 2800BC. Scout is back in Moscow to heal.

T32. 2760BC. Forest is chopped.

T33. 2720BC. Moscow worker->warrior in 1 turn. Send one worker to irrigate wheat and another to build
pasture for cows.

T34. 2680BC. Moscow warrior->warrior in 2 turns. Workers started working on improvements.
Animal HUsbandry comes->Wheel in 8 turns.

T35. 2640BC. Borders of St. petersburg have expanded.

T36. 2600BC. Moscow warrior->settler.
IBT. Lions attack scout and we win the battle with wild animals.
T37. 2560BC. WOrker finished work on pasture.
T38. 2520BC. St. Petersburg warrior->barracks. Sending worker to chop forest.
T39. 2480BC. Nothing.
T40. 2440BC. Chop started on 2 forest tile simultaneously.
T41. 2400BC. Nothing.
T42. 2360BC. move warrior from Moscow towards 3rd city location up NW.
T43. 2320BC. Moscow settler->warrior. Moving settler/warrior pair to the new city.
At this point i definitely feel we are isolated on an island. It can't be that for such a long time
we never met any of our opponents yet.
T44. 2280BC. Manipulate workers. I need to hook that copper and connect Moscow and St. petersburg by road.
T45. 2240BC. same as above.
T46. 2200BC. Novgorod is founded switch it to barracks.
T47. 2160BC. Sending scouts out.
T48. 2120BC. Archery comes. Start research on pottery in 8 turns. I am running -3gpt budget deficit
already. We have to start improving those cities of ours. lots of unexplored land south from us.
So sending warriors there.
T49. 2080BC. Nothing really.
T50. 2040BC. and again nothing. I think this is actually my 49th turns since i counted
T0 as turn1. So i will play until 2000BC and post my save. Yahoo!!! Scout can see another village.
T51 (50 really). Settler gives us 100 from a village


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/dmancat2000BC.jpg

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/50turns-Catherine, bride of Wacken BC-2000.Civ4SavedGame)

Opened Offa's save.

Two cities only, Mystisism researched, while we don't really need it.
Fishing was only good as a food source. Again we don't really have need in health luxes at the moment.
That is why i was not in a hurry to claim those clams and decided to move Moscow further away from coast.
2 workers is a nice addition as well as all other technologies learned. Offa is beating me 3 turns in getting pottery by 2000BC. But i think that's because i researched agriculture instead of Mystisism and latter is cheaper.
2 cities are too close to each other. IMHO Civ4 cities should either not overlap or overlap just a little bit. City placement is dictated by how many resources is captured and with fewer tiles wasted. in Civ4 we can not work on Deserts and Mountains

so i always try to place cities with as fewer "bad" tiles as possible.

Opened Xevious save - 2 cities only, haven't started on improvements at all.
Petersburg is not on the river - lost 2 extra health points.
Sailing is useless in 2000BC, Archery or anything else in this particular situation is better to have.
On a bright side - 3rd settler is on it's way to locate new city. Explored entire island and met Egypt.

Opened Wacken save.
Looks like we had the same idea on our 3rd city location which is good :) . Petersburg is not on river.
Research looks good, much better than everybody else. I wonder if he managed to get free tech from a village.
But then he played 3 extra turns compared to me after all.

Only Gman is left with his spoiler... so far i prefer to pick either mine or Wacken's saves to continue.
I believe we are a little further ahead compared to Offa and Xevious.

If you open my save you might notice there aren't trees left around Moscow, but i don't really care.
I put my forest for the good use and it's health benefits are overrated. Again we have lots of health sources in our island but we will have issues with hapiness.

EDIT: Actually i understand perfectly why St. petersburg is located where it is in Wacken's and Xevious saves. I would place it there too if i settle Moscow where you guys have.
But in my map Moscow has extra food suprlus when you don't. So my general plan is to make Moscow huge commerce/science city while St. petersburg with all it's hill will have no cottages but rather plains irrigated and use all these 5 hills and copper it has in city borders. It should be a dedicated unit production monster while other cities are busy with science and commerce.

A couple points in my defense:

By scouting the whole island I know that the only defense we need is against barbs, so I didn't feel archery was really needed yet. Same thing for barracks, no need to rush those yet since we probably won't see anyone coming to our island soon. I agree sailing was too early as I noted above. I was doing it for trade on coast to connect horses, but it could have waited. As for no improvements, I was planning on getting another settler out so I'd have 4 cities up and running covering most of the resources before working on buildings.

I would agree with your assessment though, and I'm fine with either yours or Wacken's start.

my start. only 2 cities as well, another settler due in 6T.

--------------Start of new log entries--------------
Moscow founded
Moscow begins: Warrior
Research begun: Fishing

Turn 1 (3960 BC)

Turn 2 (3920 BC)
Moscow's borders expand

Turn 3 (3880 BC)

Turn 4 (3840 BC)
Tribal village results: experience

Turn 5 (3800 BC)
Scout promoted: Woodsman I
Scout promoted: Woodsman II
Tech learned: Fishing

Turn 6 (3760 BC)
Research begun: Animal Husbandry
Moscow finishes: Warrior

Turn 7 (3720 BC)
Moscow begins: Work Boat
Tribal village results: unit (scout)

Turn 8 (3680 BC)
Scout defeats: Barbarian Wolf.

Turn 9 (3640 BC)

Turn 10 (3600 BC)
Tribal village results: map

Turn 11 (3560 BC)
Moscow grows: 2

Turn 12 (3520 BC)
Moscow begins: Worker
Scout defeats: Barbarian Lion.

Turn 13 (3480 BC)
Scout2 (Scout) promoted: Woodsman I
Scout defeats: Barbarian Lion.

Turn 14 (3440 BC)
Tribal village results: a little gold

Turn 15 (3400 BC)

Turn 16 (3360 BC)
Tech learned: Animal Husbandry

Turn 17 (3320 BC)
Research begun: Bronze Working

Turn 18 (3280 BC)

Turn 19 (3240 BC)
Scout defeats: Barbarian Panther.
Scout loses to: Barbarian Panther.

Turn 20 (3200 BC)

Turn 21 (3160 BC)

Turn 22 (3120 BC)

Turn 23 (3080 BC)
Moscow finishes: Worker

Turn 24 (3040 BC)
Moscow's borders expand

Turn 25 (3000 BC)

Turn 26 (2960 BC)
Tech learned: Writing
Tribal village results: technology

Turn 27 (2920 BC)

Turn 28 (2880 BC)

Turn 29 (2840 BC)
Tech learned: Bronze Working
Scout defeats: Barbarian Panther.

Turn 30 (2800 BC)
Research begun: The Wheel

Turn 31 (2760 BC)
Moscow grows: 3
Moscow finishes: Work Boat

Turn 32 (2720 BC)
Moscow begins: Settler
Scout defeats: Barbarian Lion.

Turn 33 (2680 BC)

Turn 34 (2640 BC)

Turn 35 (2600 BC)

Turn 36 (2560 BC)
Tech learned: The Wheel

Turn 37 (2520 BC)
Research begun: Sailing
Scout defeats: Barbarian Lion.

Turn 38 (2480 BC)
Scout2 (Scout) promoted: Woodsman II
Moscow finishes: Settler

Turn 39 (2440 BC)
Moscow begins: Warrior

Turn 40 (2400 BC)

Turn 41 (2360 BC)
St. Petersburg founded
St. Petersburg begins: Barracks
Moscow finishes: Warrior

Turn 42 (2320 BC)
Moscow begins: Warrior

Turn 43 (2280 BC)

Turn 44 (2240 BC)
Moscow begins: Settler
Moscow begins: Axeman
Moscow begins: Settler
Moscow begins: Axeman
Tech learned: Sailing

Turn 45 (2200 BC)
Research begun: Agriculture
Moscow begins: Settler
Moscow begins: Axeman
Moscow grows: 4
St. Petersburg's borders expand

Turn 46 (2160 BC)

Turn 47 (2120 BC)

Turn 48 (2080 BC)
Moscow finishes: Axeman

Turn 49 (2040 BC)
Moscow begins: Settler
Tech learned: Agriculture

Turn 50 (2000 BC)
Research begun: Pottery
Turn 50 (2000 BC)
--------------Start of new log entries--------------

I lost all my playing notes so not much to add. take a look at the save, but I think have have the following techs:
BW
fishing
AH
wheel
sailing
writing (from hut)
AGR

second city up by sheep.
health food online:
cows
clams
wheat soon

entire island explored

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/grahamiam/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg

My research comes from getting those 2 clams.

I put the second town on the plain hill to get another shield, but I am happy to agree that this didn't help much, and that civ4 really does call for wide spacing.

I think my barracks builds were a waste of time, and I could easily have built another settler instead.

I am still a bit confused by culture and the vale of great leader points, but my near build of Stonehedge must count for something. Do great leaders cost increasing numbers of points in a linear fashion (ie 100, 200 , 300, 100n)?

Ah, Wacken outsmarted me... I forgot that clams aren't just for food, but also give a shiny nickel or two.

As for stonehedge... It gives 2 points towards great prophet only. Great prophet can research religion related technology or build a shrine. Problem with stonehedge on this map as i said previously - lack of lux sources and only one we have unlocks with calendar. But calendar also makes stonehedge obsolete... so we won't be able to use it to generate more than one prophet if we are lucky.
AFAIK, cost of great people is not linear but exponencial . so it is 100, 1000, 10000 etc...

IMHO, Barracks aren't waste of shields... There isn't much to build at this stage but barracks or workers and settlers. At least when you build barracks your city is growing. Building settlers wastes lots of food, i prefer to chop them every time when possible.


EDIT: So, who's save we are going to take? I vote for mine or Wacken's... I like my Moscow location better, although his research is better than mine.

It is not 100, 1000, 10000 for the great people.

It certainly is 100, 200.....
I THINK it is linear after that, but it might be 400, 800.

I think my save also has the little advantage of having a bunch of forests remaining. If you don't like them for health, we can at least use them for some settlers. :)

I don't really care a lot though. Let the rest of the team decide what save to use.

i prefer Wacken's save

Oh well... since nobody wants to add i make an executive decision to play Wacken's save. (She is a bride of Wacken after all) :rolleyes:

Here comes the roster:

Wacken - just played
Gman - up
Offa - on deck
Dman
Xevious

Hope everybody can agree on roster. :)

ok, that fits nicely. will play and post tonight

edit: we have any preferences for the next 10 turns? we need another town? galleys to meet people?

Barbarian archers will appear any minute now..
I prefer to have couple of archers before galley... We will have a chance to meet other people.
Early contacts in Civ4 are not as beneficial as they were in Civ3. We won't be able to do at all until alphabet and not much after that.
We need to decide town specialization
In Civ4 specialization is important.
Town with lots of hills should irrigate riverside tiles to promote fast growth and minehills. Such town will benefit from Forge but library there is waste of time for example. Such town is also nice to dedicate for unit production
Town with grassland, plains and food bonuses should be commerce science town - cottages only everywhere and early.
And there is always a happy medium.
Town with lots of food bonuses (floodplains) should use that food surplus and be a specialist town to generate zillions of great people.

You have very important tasks to do GMan. Make a strategic decision on how to improve our cities. ;)

I am thinking whether it is benefitial to draw some sort of table ofimprovements foreach city early in the game and then follow that plan to avoid situation when forge is beeing built in flood plains city (not that we have one) or library in city with 0 gold commerce.

Preflight check:
Switch Novgorod to a warrior as I don't want to lose the town to barbs. Worker can come later, as we already have 2
I move the warrior near St. Pete's to cover the workers farming the corn
Novgorod's borders expand

Turn 54 (1840 BC)
Workers near St. Pete's irrigate the roaded plain.
Novgorod expanded, now can work the sheep
However, I MM it back to the forest to get the warrior finished
in 7T vs 13T

Turn 55 (1800 BC)
wow, really quiet on the barb front. Weird, as my game had 2 barb archers running around in the N. Wonder if the barb town spawned on a different landmass?

Turn 56 (1760 BC)
nada, just watching the grass grow :)
Moscow finishes: Barracks
St. Petersburg grows: 3

Turn 57 (1720 BC)
Moscow begins: Archer
I decided on an Archer in Moscow so we can beef up the cities a little. I figured I'd also let it grow to size 4 before building another settler.

Turn 58 (1680 BC)
The overflow in Moscow should allow 2 archers in 3 turns (3x17=51s)
worker roads the food bonus N of St. Petes (wheat?)
yes, wheat
Tech learned: Sailing
Moscow finishes: Archer

Turn 59 (1640 BC)
Research begun: Writing
Moscow begins: Archer
bahh, looks like the base production in Moscow was 10s, the overflow from the rax screwed me up. Anyways, build another. Move the current one towards St. Petes
Also, I don't promote it yet, as we can wait till we see what promotion it needs
Worker W of St. Petes keeps roading towards Novgorod

Turn 60 (1600 BC)
workers on the wheat finish roading, move S to road to town
Scout in Novgorod moves E, NE (warrior due in 1T)
Also, MM for growth
Moscow grows: 4
Novgorod finishes: Warrior

Turn 61 (1560 BC)
Scout goes 2T NE to forest. Warrior moves NE from forest/hill NE of St. Petes. Archer arrives in St. Pete's. I want to scout out the Eastern part of our continent.
Moscow finishes: Archer

Turn 62 (1520 BC)
Moscow begins: Settler
New archer stays in Moscow. Worker moves back towards Moscow to chop a forest for the settler. Warrior from St. Pete's moves to hill, finds some barb archers 2T N


Turn 63 (1480 BC)
Barb archer appears from the SE (of Moscow). Barb Archer near St. Pete's beelines for the warrior. However, I move the warrior SE and find barb borders :) That's one less settler we'll need!
Worker finishes road, moves NW to forest. Scout moves SE, spots a barb village.
St. Petersburg grows: 4

Turn 64 (1440 BC)
barb archers are beelining for the towns.
Tech learned: Writing
Tribal village results: technology
Research begun: Mysticism
Research begun: Iron Working
scout pops hut, giving us writing (crap, we we're close to finish it :sad: )
Worker near Moscow must abandon the forest due to the closing Barb Archer. Move him to the grass hill and mine it.

Turn 65 (1400 BC)
Archer promoted: Drill I
Tech learned: Mathematics
Tribal village results: technology
Warrior pops hut, and we get Math!
Archer promoted: City Garrison I

Notes:
Promoted the archer in St. Pete's to City Garrison 1
Promoted the Archer in Moscow to drill 1, and fortify on the cows. Hopefully, the barb archer attacks. Even if we lose, the warrior can mop him up. St. Pete's is a little more precarious, but the City Garrison gives +20% to city defense, so the archer should win (+20% CG1, +20% cultural defense, +50% city defense = +90% = 5.7)
Sorry, went 1 turn too long :crazyeye: and I should have left the promotions for the next player. but at least we're at even numbers :)

Looks like St. Pete's and Moscow will be good, well rounded cities. The other one (Novgorod) may be able to chop the forests for a Lib and then go max food, building nothing but workers and settlers for a while. I don't know. However, Dman's suggestion to specialize the towns is a very good idea and we should try to do that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/grahamiam/brideofwacken-1400BC.jpg

Wacken
Gman - just played
Offa - up
Dman on deck
Xevious


Any inputs from the team?

Well I see I am UP in both games.

Suggestions please or face a very wooly unfocused set.
I need to read a bit and look at the saves first anyway.

after the settler in Moscow, we ought to think about either building a Library there or some units to go take that barb town.

St. Pete's will finish the rax too and has the same decision to be made.

1 worker near Moscow can help chop the settler/lib once the barb is gone.

other worker is near Novgorod to get that city in shape.

It looks like both Moscow and St. Petersburg are high shields towns with hills that can be used for unit production.

We will have to stick some cottages, however. Library in Moscow won't give us much until city generates $$$$ from cottages.

I think gman gave a wrong suggestion for Novgorod. It should be opposite
we need to chop settlers and workers from that city and let it build library while growing. Again, library doesn't give benefits until city generates gold and we need to build nothing but cottages all around Novgorod to make it a commerce/science city. We don't need many settlers. 5 or so towns should be enough until we get some gold flowing before we can expand further.

Also remember do not keep military units outside of our cultural borders unless required. Civ4 supports 4 units only outside of cultural borders. All additional units cost 1gpt towards unit supply costs.


We also don't have to hurry to deal with Barbarians. Couple of archers located in right strategic location will always dispatch everything barbs send our way. Barbarian towns usually protected by 3 archers (or axemen if they have copper). We will take our time expanding economy and will deal with barbs in due time. I can't see on the screenshot but we should come up with the best location for the next city. South of moscow is a good location, perhaps.

well, we think a little alike :) south of moscow has a lot of jungle, and I set research to IW so we can clear the jungles soon :) If we don't want to go after the barb town right now, that's fine, but we should scout out the territory to see what resources they have so we don't get caught by suprise if a stack of swords or axes or horse archers come at us.

in regards to Novgorod: perhaps I do have it backwards. chopping settlers & workers sounds good. I was just thinking that maxing out on food will speed up the settler/worker production (there's a water bonus and a food bonus nearby) since food & shields are combined to make the settler. So, my thought was, we get up to size 4 or 5, work irrigated grass, water bonus, and food/land bonus to get our fpt up to a max, then start building workers/settlers. However, that's probably a crap idea as I'm not sure if we can get up to +8 to 10fpt

I believe we have a lot of health bonuses around, but little lux, so we probably don't have to have the forest health bonuses to get to max pop. Our limit will be dictated by the happy faces.

Also, let's not forget about a galley. We are alone on the rock (sans barbs) and we need to meet people at some point. Maybe, if we could squeeze one out in the next set or 2, that could be helpful.

Yeah, happy faces will be an issue very soon.

Two wasy to solve hapiness problem when luxuries aren't available\

1. Research and adopt religion (each converted city gives one :) ), build temples (hate those) in addition to that
2. Research monarchy and adopt hereditary civic. Will allow use to use MPs for happiness

I failed to find time to play this last night, but tonight I planned to be more disciplined.

But, when I pressed return, after a sudden non-animated blur of activity I found myself in this position:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/1360bc.GIF

Basically what happened was hard to follow as fight animations were turned off (I have addressed this now). However, the archer SE of Moscow was obviously blind as he was killed by the barb who only reduced to 2.4/3 strength. The St Petersburg archer survived, reducing to 2.9/3.

I hate to ask your advice after pressing only one button, but it seems to me that our game is in serious risk of imploding, so I feel I ought to warn you if nothing else. I don't believe our warrior in the capital is likely to kill the barb archer.

looks rough, need to switch to a warrior and move the worker, obviously. Perhaps he won't attack, but then again he's at 80% health and our defender will be +40% +25% = 3.3 strength, so we have a decent chance of winning.

other archer is probably 3T away and we could MM a warrior in 2T.

We can give it a try as Gman suggested.
That is the danger of worker/settler gambits on harder difficulty levels. Barbs can appear early and mess things up.
Worst case scenario this will be just a failed training game we can all learn lessons from.

Well this is what happened:

1360bc

Send St Petersburg archer towards capital.
Start warrior near barb town retreating.
Switch capital to archer.
Hope for best.

1320bc barb destroys our cow pasture outside capital.

Ibt
Good news at last: our warrior in Moscow wins when the barb archer attacks (left with 0.5 strength).

1280bc
Fortify the newly arrived Petersburg archer on the cows.

Ibt
Our archer kills a barb warrior which attacks (he falls to strength 1).

1240bc
Our scout in east meets Egypt over the sea.

1200bc
Both st Petersburg and Moscow finish archers.
Capital back to settler build.
St Petersburg is problematic re happiness, when it grows it will be unhappy.

Scout checks out the barb town Angle: 3 archers defending.

1120
Novogrod builds worker, and starts a work boat.

1080
Moscow settler, start an axeman
St Petersburg worker, start a galley.

Ibt
Egypt offers us open borders. I can’t think why to refuse so I accept.

1000bc
St Pete grows and becomes unhappy.
Settler,archer pair moving south.

So, we have at least a game to play.
Happiness appears a problem, which I don't know how to address.
I have started a few cottage builds. I would quite like to have started a library somewhere, but haven't. The capital is building an axeman, I don't know whether this unit is any good or not. St Pete is building a galley as I thought it would be nice to explore, and the third town is building a workboat.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/1000bc1.GIF

Dude, don't move the worker necessarily.

The barb will attack the worker and thus give the capital a turn - which could be just enough time to build/whip/bring in more troops.

In point of fact, move your archer down the road, keep the worker in place. The barb WILL (from my experience) attack the worker, then your archer can attack his archer and at least damage it to the point that it can either be cleared up by the warrior or gives time for a new defender to be built. Best option in my not so humble opinion.

If none of that is possible, then you got to pray!

How do you turn around the camera ?

Think it is control then the cursor arrows.

Correct Kitten. It only turns 45 degrees each way, but is quite nice.

I got it....
suggestions and idea?

BTW. Axeman is a great early age unit.
It kicks swordmen all the time and it is very good for early defense and offense

Do you find city defense promotions to be worth taking? It seems the bigger concern is the need to attack pillagers, more than defend a town.

What I was thinking is that if you have a unit that is not inferior to the attacking and it is forted and has +20 city, they won't attack anyway. You have to attack them or let them have free rain. Are you seeing ot otherwise? An archer with +20 will probably not have to defend vs an archer. Maybe an Axe or a Sword will try it.

Do you find city defense promotions to be worth taking? It seems the bigger concern is the need to attack pillagers, more than defend a town.

What I was thinking is that if you have a unit that is not inferior to the attacking and it is forted and has +20 city, they won't attack anyway. You have to attack them or let them have free rain. Are you seeing ot otherwise? An archer with +20 will probably not have to defend vs an archer. Maybe an Axe or a Sword will try it.

My only experience of combat on civ4 was the last turnset, which left me a bit unnerved, but in general terms it would seem better to have troops geared for attack instead of defence.

Will civ4 AI not attack unless the odds are fairly good?

Will civ4 AI not attack unless the odds are fairly good?

Yep, that is what my experience tells me. Nor AIs neither Barbarians will try to attack unless they have chances to win. I am not sure what is the threshold though.

Ok, I played earlier today but didn't have time to post until now.

Here it comes:

pre-turn: Situation isn't bad. We will get IW in 2 turns and then we need to go after all those
middle tree religions techs. We might get first to CoL. We also need monarchy to deal with happiness issues
St.Petersburh has only reached size 5 and in riot already.

T1. 975BC. Settler moves south to the next city location. Send archer from St. Petersbur to the
fortify on the hill on outskirts of city to dodge barbarians. Workers near moscow to work on cottage.
Another worker to connect novgorod to trade network

T2. 950BC. IW comes start on Mystisism. ROstov founded and it will get Iron in city limits as soon
as it expands. Moscow Axeman ->Axeman. Library should be next build.

T3. 925BC. WOrker almost connected warrior. Building another cottage near Novgorod

T4. 900 Mystisim comes. Switch to mediation. Research dips down to 70% due to lack of funds.
Moscow starts working on Library and so is St. Peters. after finishing galley.
I am sending both Axeman to control Barbarian raids from their northern town.
I am not going to do anything until our core cities are improved. Barbarians at this stage are not an issue anymore.


T5. 875BC. zzzzzz


T6. 850BC. Confusianism is founded somewhere else. Too bad That means we are way behind in research.
I hope religion will spread to us from Egypt.

T7. 825BC. zzzz

T8. 800BC. I am sacrificing our Scout by sending it to Barb town just to check what kind of defence Barbs have.
It parked on hill near barb town. Barbs have 3 archers inside. They will most likely attack and kill scout IBT.
That is almost a good thing we already are paying for unit support. Remember though not to keep
more than 4 units outside of cultural borders unless needed. Anything above that will cost us in unit supply category.

T9. 775BC. Meditation comes->priesthood in 4. Novgorod Work boat->library.

IBT. Egyptian princess came anyway demanding we trade pigs for clams. I don't want to
worsen our relationship so i agree. Trades only last 10 turns in Civ4 after all.

T10. 750BBC Our scout survived - barb archers didn't attack. I am moving it out. Actually i killed it myself, since i noticed we are paying unit support and now when we uncovered entire island there is no need in scouts. Work boat to work on clams.
Egypt will trade pigs for clams. But we have no problems with health so i decide not to make a deal now hoping we can use our
spare clams for lux trade later in the game.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Catherine0750.Civ4SavedGame)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/catebride750BC.jpg

Wacken-on deck
Gman -
Offa -
Dman - just played
Xevious- up

Got it, but just finished my turns in the practice. Will get to this tomorrow (Sunday).

Didn't get it in yesterday, but finished tonight. Will try to get to SGOTM9 tomorrow night.

750BC(0) MM to drop Priesthood to 2 turns.

725BC(1) Stonehenge is built somewhere. Retask worker by Rostov. Want to mine iron and then road for connection. We need the extra hammers before we need the city connected. Move off sheep to mine hill in Novgorod, slow growth in moscow also. Extra pop will be angry right now due to lack of lux. Would really like to get Calendar so we can build plantation on sugar. Worker near St. Pete is farming grass? We have 3 +4 food tiles here, change to cottage on grass. Maximize shields in St. Pete for 0 growth to finish library faster.

700BC(2) Priesthood->CoL, max science. (Would really rather do calendar, but we should try to get Taoism first). Moscow:Library->Worker. Nov worker 2SE to chop forest outside border to speed library (Nov is hammer poor). Ros worker to iron. Start moving axes toward barb town.

675BC(3) Galley finds Memphis is holy city for Confucianism. Mining iron by Rostov, chopping trees for Novgorod.

650BC(4) Axes on hills by Angle. Worker build cottage on grass forest for moscow.

625BC(5) Novgorod MM all out for gold. Worker will chop another forest to finish library. Promote one axe to CR1, other to Woods1, both fortified on forest hill next to Angle.

600BC(6) Moscow:Worker->Galley. Worker will connect Rostov.

575BC(7) Pyramids built somewhere. Archer from Angle to wheat, still 3 in town. Attack it with CR axe to get promotion, win (1/5). Move other axe to him to protect. Guess I see now why you were waiting. Start roading iron.

550BC(8) Moscow:Library->axe. Axe promotes to CR2, both axes back to forest hill.

525BC(9) zzzzzz

500BC(10) WM1 axe holds off archer and promotes to WM2 (3.9/5). Heal. Worker to rice, queue farm. Shields to both Moscow and Novgorod, Galley and Library will come next turn.

Worker near St. Pete is farming grass? We have 3 +4 food tiles here, change to cottage on grass. Maximize shields in St. Pete for 0 growth to finish library faster.


I started farming for the long run plans... St.Pete's doesn't really have lots of room to make lots of money. Or so i remember. But it has lots of hills that can be mined. We will need suprlus of food there to work on all the hills.
Yes you can make a cottage now, but later you will face dillema between re-farming that cottage or not using mined hills.

Here's what I see: 3 plains hills offset by 3 +4 food tiles (sheep, wheat, clams). A lighthouse will convert all those shore tiles to 2 food and lots of gold, and with the extra 2 food from city we can work two cottage plains. We already had one of the four plains irrigated. One more irrigated plains (and a lighthouse) will let us work every tile (eventually). Right now we need a lot more happiness of course.

Turn1:
Novgorod: Library - Harb, i mean Lighthouse. Set tiles to food and production, select first scientist.
Moscow: Swordsman

Turn2:
Moscow: Swordsman -> Swordsman.

Turn3:
Code of Laws ready. What now to research ? Masonry.
Turn4:
Rostov finished library. You guys must really like to read, building libraries in cities with 2 beakers. :)
I build a Lighthouse now.

Turn5:
Moscow: Swordsman -> Settler.
I attack the barb vilage with a city raider swordsman because win chances are much better now in civ4 (6.0 vs 4.3) and winning will provide the 5th xp point. It loses :(

Turn6:
Novgorod: Lighthouse - Barracks.
St.P: Axemen - Swordsman.

Turn7:
I move the axemen away from the barb village because they can't take it and it costs money to have them there. Btw, what is "handicap" cost ? It was 1 in my first turn and now it's 2.

Turn8:
--


Turn9:
Our archer on hill died to an archer attack. Damn rng.

Tunr10:
Moscow: Settler - Lighthouse.
Rostov: Lighthouse - Granary.

Ok Wacken, You have yet to learn how to play warfare in civ4 :lol:
Rostov need library mostly for culture now. But i see it having lots of culture

You didn't answer the most important question. Did we or did we not researched confusianism first? We need religion. we need it for happiness...


@Xevious. I reckon you are correct. i totally forgot about the lighthouse.

You must have too many games going dman. :lol: Confucianism was learned elsewhere during your turnset. We should head for Philosophy quickly (in fact we should probably switch now and come back to Calendar) and try to get Taoism.

:crazyeye: My life currently is a one big game... I think i am going nuts :lol:

About religion, i figured we'd conquee holy city memphis. Then we have a religion right ?

Oh and can anyone tell me what is that handicap cost ?

i think i'm up, will play and post tonight.

@WoA: I have no idea what the handicap cost is. I also agree that capturing Mecca is a better way to get our religon. imho, someone will beat us to Philosophy.

Oh and can anyone tell me what is that handicap cost ?

I don't have a save right now to look at it, but I remember that each level has a value. Prince is 60. So I am guessing if looking at unit cost there is a discount for that level.

I had figured it out once, or at least I thought I had.

Ok I loaded yours up. The cost is 5 and 60% is 3, so you get -2 handicap cost.

sorry guys, my internet connection is a bit wacky tonight and this is the 1st time I've been able to access CFC since leaving work. could not play either game but will try again on Saturday. If someone wants to pick it up, go ahead. Otherwise, I'll play then.

Sorry for the delay. As an example of how weird it's been, it took gmail 1 hr to send my 1st pbem save to goz tonight :eek: second one was quick, but that wasn't till about 5 minutes ago.

Turn 107 (200 BC)
I don't see a lot of luxes right now. In fact, we only have one. Therefore, I switch to Philosophy
Research begun: Philosophy
Crap, it'll take us 23turns to learn Philosophy :( Switch back to calender (5T)
Research begun: Calendar
Move a worker to the jungle near Rostov

Turn 108 (175 BC)

Turn 109 (150 BC)
Yaroslavl' founded
Yaroslavl' begins: Library
Found Yaroslavl' within range of the wheat and iron.
Exploring galley sees the town of Thebes, which is the religous town for Confusism. Looks like Egypt has 2 religions going for her
St. Petersburg finishes: Swordsman
Axeman defeats (2.75/5): Barbarian Archer
Axeman defeats (2.00/5): Barbarian Archer

Turn 110 (125 BC)
St. Petersburg begins: Axeman
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Axeman promoted: Medic I
Give the healed Axeman 2 promotions. I didn't realize that he could be promoted. Could have healed him more quickly with the medic promotion. Oh well. Move all of them to hills for better positioning. Sword is coming over via the galley
Axeman defeats (3.60/5): Barbarian Archer

Turn 111 (100 BC)
Moscow finishes: Lighthouse
St. Petersburg finishes: Axeman

Turn 112 (75 BC)
Moscow begins: Swordsman
St. Petersburg begins: Swordsman
Tech learned: Calendar
Moscow's borders expand
Rostov grows: 3
Rostov's borders expand

Turn 113 (50 BC)
Research begun: Alphabet
Select Alpha so we can trade techs
Exploring galley notices an empty Egyptian galley off the barb town's coast. Move up the not-100% healed attack force so we don't miss out on getting the town
Yaroslavl''s borders expand

Turn 114 (25 BC)
Ok, town defended by 3 archers. Also has a worker. Also has horses and pigs connected.
Moscow finishes: Swordsman
Yaroslavl' grows: 2

Turn 115 (0 AD)
Moscow begins: Settler
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman defeats (1.68/6): Barbarian Archer
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Axeman loses to: Barbarian Archer (2.37/3)
Axeman defeats (0.25/5): Barbarian Archer
Axeman defeats (1.40/5): Barbarian Archer
Ok, and now the last axeman attacks. Unfortunately, he has Wood1 and 2, not very useful for attacking cities
Axeman defeats (0.50/5): Barbarian Archer
Captured Angle (Barbarian)
That was against the damaged archer. Very close, but we take the town.
Workers have competed the plantation, so we get another worker in our towns.
1 worker heads south towards the stone
St. Petersburg grows: 6

Turn 116 (25 AD)
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Swordsman promoted: Combat I
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Barb archer is moving to retake Angle. Pile all units in town
Novgorod finishes: Barracks
Rostov finishes: Granary
Swordsman defeats (0.96/6): Barbarian Archer
Defend against the barb archer attacking the town.

Turn 117 (50 AD)
Novgorod begins: Galley
Rostov begins: Barracks
Axeman defeats (0.60/5): Barbarian Archer
Kill an Archer near Angle (moved up from the SE, onto the horses). Hopefully, that's it. I also drop off a sword NE of St. Pete's so it can guard a worker roading NE. We could switch St. Pete's to settler now, but I'd rather have another sword
Barb galley looks like it's headed for St. Pete's clams

"Give the healed Axeman 2 promotions. I didn't realize that he could be promoted. Could have healed him more quickly with the medic promotion."

Units with promotions available should give off a blue glow.

It's me I reckon.

The island is ours now I but what are our plans, short medium and long term? I will play without any if required, later today, but based on the blancmange of my GOTM1 effort some planning is better :) .

I haven't played a game of civ4 this far before :eek:

Sounds like me. :D Part of why these practice games and GOTM1 are great. I keep playing openings and have yet to finish a game.

My thoughts:

For Novgorod, resist temptation to work water tiles for 3 gold. Instead we should work the 2 grass cottages so they will grow to towns.

I'd say we're severly short on military, as well as towns. I think it would be a good idea to get a couple well placed towns in the northeast, and one down by the stone before Egypt decides to start settling on our continent.

I think heading for Music would be a good idea, Lit will allow heroic epic (1/2 cost military) and national epic (double great person points), both good to get and Music will give us a free great artist (shouldn't be any trouble getting there first.)

I'm off to a kids Christmas party right now, I may have more thoughts later.

"Give the healed Axeman 2 promotions. I didn't realize that he could be promoted. Could have healed him more quickly with the medic promotion."

Units with promotions available should give off a blue glow.
yes, I know. It was not clear on the previous turns (no blue glow on my machine till I wake him up). Not sure if it's due to my hardware or the game, but I definitely didn't see that he was able to be upgraded till he moved.

I had a go with autolog, but appear to have stuffed up and lost the last 5 turns of recording.

Turn 118 (75 AD)
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
St. Petersburg finishes: Swordsman
Novgorod grows: 6
Taoism has spread: Novgorod

I am asked if I want to revolt to Taoism. Our unhappiness seems grim so I accept.

Turn 119 (100 AD)
St. Petersburg begins: Settler
Angle begins: Library
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Taoism has spread: Angle

Turn 120 (125 AD)
Tech learned: Alphabet
Moscow finishes: Settler

Turn 121 (150 AD)
Research begun: Polytheism
Research begun: Literature
Moscow begins: Settler
Turn 121 (150 AD)

Entirely peaceful turns. Egyptian towns don't look impregnable though.Anyway, We have researched Lit now, and have started on music.
Egypt won't trade techs.
We have, I think, converted to Taoism.
I founded one more town in the north.
The former barb town is looking quite strong.

I haven't started Heroic Epic or National Epic etc: we might like to do so now. Literature was just learnt on the last interturn so the chance is still fresh.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/300.GIF

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Catherine,_bride_of_Wacken_AD-0300.Civ4SavedGame

Wacken
Gman
Offa - just played
Dman - up
Xevious -on deck


I am up and i have it. Sorry didn't pay attention to the forums and did a little explaining in SGOTM thread already...
Where do we stand??? any comments? i will study the thread and play.

Ok. it's been three days i still haven't played and nobody reminded :p
won't play today again, so if Xevious wants to swap it's okay.
Otherwise i'll try to get to this tomorrow.

Not in any hurry, I'm trying to play GOTM1. I'm currently further than I've been in any CivIV game with it so far, and would like to keep playing that tonight.

With regret I must admit that i am not just a big slacker. (10 days of not playing), but i have to drop all Civ4 SGs i am in.
I am leaving my old job and going somewhere else. Much better place with the exception that i have to return laptop i was using to play Civ4 back to my old employer.
My home desktop and laptop aren't good enough for Civ4 so i will have to stick with ol' good Civ3 for a while. :(

but beware... I will be back!

Sorry to hear that dman, but good luck with the new job. I guess I'm up then and I'll try to get to this tonight.

Well, so much for that. I had absolutely no time last night or tonight. In fact, I have barely sat down on my computer since Friday. There's been no comment since Offa's turnset over a week ago, so is there any interest in continuing this? Should we consider picking up again after the holidays as was suggested earlier?

well, it seems that you and I are the only ones really following it, and these C4 games have overloaded Wacken and Offa. I'm fine if we want to put it on the backburner till January, maybe everyone (including Dmanakho :) ) will have time then?

I have started on cotm19: not a spoiler to suggest that it is slow to play :scan: . I am up i think in goz10 as well. Therefore I am delaying my immersion into civ4ness for a while.

I am keen to carry on with these games after the holidays though.

Sounds like a plan then. Will hold off until January.

Well... my question is... should i buy new PC to play Civ4 or shouldn't i.
given the fact i just bought a brand new laptop this past summer but didn't take in consideration video subsystem it will be hard to justify yet another computer to my wife. But lets hope for the better. I might be able to upgrade my old desktop PC.
It's funny.... I came home last night and 1st words my 5 years old said were: "Daddy, lets go and buy a new computer so we can play new Civilization". He really loves this game. He has a toy bow and a sword and he role plays civilization everyday. Our poor dog usually has to run for safety because kid likes to pretend it to be a "bad lion" or bear. :)

It's funny.... I came home last night and 1st words my 5 years old said were: "Daddy, lets go and buy a new computer so we can play new Civilization". He really loves this game. He has a toy bow and a sword and he role plays civilization everyday. Our poor dog usually has to run for safety because kid likes to pretend it to be a "bad lion" or bear. :)

:lol: Lucky you, my five year old daughter just likes playing with dolls. A child that likes civ: what a dreamworld.

well, my 5 yr old boy got mad at me when I lost my pbem to Akots, so it's not all sunshine :D

I came home last night and 1st words my 5 years old said were: "Daddy, lets go and buy a new computer so we can play new Civilization". He really loves this game. He has a toy bow and a sword and he role plays civilization everyday. Our poor dog usually has to run for safety because kid likes to pretend it to be a "bad lion" or bear. :)

Now that is way too much, how could she refuse.

Ah, what's the price of a new PC anyway :)
If you have a screen to use from an older PC, 500 dollars should do the job.
And if it makes your kid happy ... :D