In http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=133492, MinionJoe said the following:
Lately I've not been trying to found my own religions. I wait until a neighbor's religion spreads to my cities, then I convert, build a monastary, and spread the religion through the rest of my civilization.

I get good relations with my neighbor and I get the happiness/culture/production bonuses for having a religion. Unfortunately, you don't get the huge shrine income. But that money is going to a friend instead of an enemy.

Of course, my secret shame is that once I've built up a good sized army, I'll go "liberate" my religion's holy city.
This immediately struck me as a great idea for a variant.

True Believers
Civilization: Aztecs
Traits: Spiritual/Aggressive
Land Type: Pangaea
All other settings default

Variant rules:

We may not found religions.
The first religion that spreads to us will become our state religion. We will never convert away from that religion.
We will become a Theocracy and stay that way as soon as we get Theology
If a heathen religion should spread to us before we become a Theocracy, we will mark down on our "To Kill List" whoever spread us that religion. Additionally, we may never build Temples or Monasteries of an opposing religion.
Once we become a Theocracy, we must wage a holy war against whoever has the holy city of our religion. We may not sign peace until we capture our holy city. We are the TRUE believers!
If the holy city of our religion ever falls, we lose.


Roster
BotlGnomz
The Caltrop
Sybot
afpunk
AndrewN

Who is in? :hammer::hammer::hammer:

Me. I'm a noob... but, I love the concept!

Can i join? I've been looking for an SG to play in, and the concept for this sounds good! This would be my first SG though...

I'd be happy to have both of you.
Two more slots open!

I've been lurking here for a while, and would love to try a succession game. Count me in if you'll have me.

This does sound like a fun variant. Good luck, guys!

:)

I'll give it a go.

I have just got my shiny new computer so I should be able to get to the end of a game now :D

Thanks for the good luck charm, oh wise and mighty Cuban :worship:.
All righty then, we have our roster. I will generate the game and play the first 30 turns. For the rest of the first rotation, we will each play 15 turns. Beginning with the second rotation, 10 turns each.

4000 (1): Immediate dilemma after I move the scout.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Civ4ScreenShot00053.JPG
See it? If I found where I am, I waste the fish but get Marble, corn, and incense. If I move SW, I get the fish but lose the corn, and if I move S, I get the fish and lose the marble. Damn. I elect to stay where I am, and my founding reveals HORSES two tiles north of Tenochtitlan! YES! If we had moved, we would have lost that. Staying was the right move. Begin a scout and research on Agriculture.
3960 (2): Nothing.
3920 (3): Spot a hut.
3880 (4): Pop hut and get maps.
3840 (5): Nothing
3800 (6): Borders expand.
3760 (7): Nothing.
3720 (8): French warrior spots Tenochtitlan's borders and says hello. Scout sees a hut.
3680 (9): Agriculture comes in, start Animal Husbandry. Pop hut, get 45g.
3640 (10): Spot Malinese borders, say hi.
3600 (11): Nothing.
3560 (12): Hinduism has been founded in a diiiiiiiiistant land!
3520 (13): Tenochitlan builds scout and starts a warrior.
3480 (14): Nothing.
3440 (15): Nothing.
3400 (16): Nothing.
3360 (17): Animal Husbandry comes in, start The Wheel.
3320 (18): Find and pop a hut, getting maps. Locate the French borders. They are CLOSE :eek:.
3280 (19): Warrior built, start Worker. Warrior fortifies. Spot Arabia's border and say hi.
3240 (20): Nothing.
3200 (21): Nothing.
3160 (22): Meet an American warrior, led by Washington (not FDR).
3120 (23): Nothing.
3080 (24): Wheel comes in and Archery starts. Spot Incan borders, also pretty damn close :mad:.
3040 (25): Nothing.
3000 (26): Meet Isabella's warrior. She founded Hinduism, or it spread to her already (unlikely).
2960 (27): Nothing.
2920 (28): Nothing.
2880 (29): Archery comes in, start Masonry. Begin Barracks in Tenochtitlan as the worker begins to farm the Corn.
2840 (30): Buddhism is founded in a distant land. Find American borders.

Dotmaps!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/aztecdotmap2.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/aztecdotmap1.JPG

We want red dot. A lot. We probably won't grab it, but I'm gambling that Mansa Musa tries to nab the Ivory and Spices first. If we manage red dot, we should follow up with green dot immediately and then pink dot to declare our borders. There's probably space for another city or two between Tenochtitlan and red dot/green dot, but it's not really a priority. Yellow dot is decent, but blue dot is awful. I didn't want the wheat to go to waste, though.

I see our next few turns as something like this:
Tenochtitlan finishes barracks, builds settler (I think with the urgency of nabbing Red dot, we can make a gamble on an unprotected settler) who heads to red dot, builds Archer who follows, builds archer, settler, they go to green dot, builds archer, settler, they go to pink dot, and starts building some workers and maybe a Wonder (Oracle seems like a good shot with the Marble nearby). Meanwhile, after Masonry, we pick up Pottery so that newly founded cities can build Granaries after Obelisks. I think Mining and BW should follow Pottery. After the farm is done, road the tile, then Pasture and road the horses, then Quarry and road the Marble, farm the flood plains, then start roading towards our new cities to get them connected.

This has been a good start. Let's kick ass and take names! :hammer:

Uh... Can you please upload the save? :)
And... why shouldn't we go for the ivory and spices? They are valuable reasources, and that area holds vast quantities of them... I mean, if we grab that, and then settle red dot, we still have borders made... just in a better spot, right?



and...
In [URL="http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=133492"]
If the holy city of our religion ever falls, we lose.



Don't you mean 'If the holy city of our religion ever falls AFTER WE CAPTURE IT, we lose'?

Very good start. I agree that there's a good chance Mansa Musa will go for the Ivory and Spices, given that Ivory has a military use as well.

I'm not sure if we should let the barracks finish before making another settler or not. Nor am I sure I would let the settler go unprotected. My thought would be more for--
Put off Barracks, start settler.
Finish settler, take warrior with him, start archer.
Finish archer, fortify, finish barracks.
Then pick up with the rest of your list, probably throwing in another archer at some point to send to red dot(Or have them make one themselves).

The differences aren't likely to be too great, that's just the way I would play it. Good luck Caltrop! Look forward to the next few turns.

Hrm. I like afpunk's idea. That seems to be best. My only difference is that I would let the barracks finish in Tenochtitlan before the Archer is built to defend it. Then send another Archer down to red dot, then progress with the build.
The more I think about it, the more I like it :D.
TheCaltrop: I want to see where Mansa Musa founds before we pursue that spot. If he hasn't grabbed it by the time we have a settler pair ready for Green dot, I think we should grab that spot; no sense looking a gift elephant in the mouth :lol:. But Red dot is a much stronger city site overall. I would found IvorySpice city on the tile 1 NW of the Rice. Doubt we're going to get it, though =/.
Also, the holy city point applies no matter who controls it. By "falls," however, I meant "is razed." My bad :p.
And here, sir, is the save :crazyeye:.

Ok, I understand. Although, I really, really need you to upload the save before I can continue the SG... :)

*points*
Today seems to be a very overlookingtheobvious day for all of us :lol:

That certainly wasn't there when I posted my reminder to you... Ah, no matter. No use arguing over such a trifling matter. I have the save.

I have had a quick look at the save.

I am not sure the best policy is to go and put cities along way from the capital, I prefer to get the city spots close in first and then to expand with armies. The problem with distant cities is they can get very expensive.

I think the yellow is a good spot. It also has the advantages of completly blocking off the far end of the continent to the AI's so we can spread in that direction at our lesure.

I am not sure about the pale blue spot as it looks a bit dry with all that desert, plus we haven't explored in that direction very far so we can't see anything that way.

With the pink spot I assume you put it on that side of the hills for the fresh water (oasis). I would prefer to put it on the other side of the hills (still next to the pigs) so that it locks borders with the capital.

We could then get another city on the plains to the south so that it can work the fishes after a border expansion.

Once we get those cities built we can look at expanding further, either with settlers or the old fashioned way :)

I disagree.
Near our capital isn't much land. There is practically nothing to our east. Under the fog, you can see water east of the peak, the tundra, and the desert. There appears to be a plains east of the other plains, but as an outcropping, I have no doubt that beyond it is water. We're on a peninsula. We can take all of that at our leisure.
It is better to expand quickly, grab the good land to our south and west, establish borders then fill in the north and east which no one else can get to. Hence, red dot, green dot, and pink dot. Blue dot is not going to be a good city. It's only there to be a fishing village, albeit one with good growth due to the wheat. It may be a good researching town though, with all the commerce from six water tiles.
The placement of pink dot is an interesting point. I think I like it where it is, though. It is more aggressive and will lock borders anyway at the 100c mark.
I don't think grabbing the fishes is worthwhile if we can get the red/green dot combo. It would be severely overlapped, and we can hook up the fishes anyway when the borders of Tenochtitlan expand.

No problem, and I agree the land nearby is poor. I didn't look, is the land the AI's have as poor as ours?

If we are going for the red and green spots, how about another city next to the rice, 6 squares due south of the red dot?

Lucky for you two, I didn't get a chance to complete the settler in my turn. I just worked on exploration and infrastructure. Hopefully my turn helps support the strong foundation for expansion that Gnome's turn did.

0-My zeroth turn. Absolutely nothing occurs: I just click the end turn button.
2800 BC-America converts to Buddhism…and apparently is the founder.
2760 BC-Nothing.
2720 BC- Farm is built, send worker to pasture the horses in the north.
2680 BC- Judaism is founded in a distant land. I send the warrior to protect the worker, who is threatened by a barb animal.
2640 BC- Barracks built. Isabella (Spain) adopts the civic Organized Religion. Road is built.
2600 BC- Masonry completed, I go on to reaserch pottery.
2560 BC- Nothing
2520 BC- Nothing
2480 BC- Napolean (France) adopts the civic Slavery.
2440 BC- Nothing
2400 BC- Nothing
2360 BC- Road hooks up horse pasture to capital. Send worker to build road to marble.
2320 BC- Pottery researched. Start research on mining (prerequisate for Bronze working).
2280- Washington (America) and Mansa Musa (Mali) adopt the civic Slavery.
2240-Nothing

I just tried the save and it appeared to be the turn that I passed off.
This team needs to work on its save-passing technique :lol:

Ok. Now it works. I think.

Thread Tools | Subscribe to this Thread. :coffee:

Excellent! *is honored*
Anyway, I have a few notes for the next leader's turn 0:
Swap a few tiles in Tenochtitlan, and we can get that settler in one fewer turn and get another commerce out of it.
Change our leader name! Use Alt D and swap it back to BGZ02!
Use the scout down by red dot to run interference on any Malinese settlers. The Caltrop's idea of positioning it there was an excellent one.
I think that it should be relatively safe to let the settler run ahead of the warrior. Or, we could send the warrior down there immediately and the settler will catch up with it.

I've got the save, unfortunately I won't be able to play it until tomorrow, since its getting late here in the UK.

Red Dot will be ours!
^ Slogan for my turns ;)

Heres my set of turns. Sorry about the poor picture quality throughout. I printscreened them and pasted them into Word and they were fine, but when I put them in Paint in order to upload them they went all screwy, as you can see.

2240 BC (0): Fiddled with Tenoctitlan’s tiles to get one turn knocked off the Settler, but I couldn’t see how to get an extra commerce.

2200 (1): Start quarrying the Marble. Send the Scout nearer to Mali to watch for Settlers. The other Scout continues around Washington’s territory.

2160 (2): Move Scouts around. A Lion is approaching Red Dot! Start the Warrior on the trek to Red Dot.

2120 (3): Move Scout to watch Lion. Western Scout comes face to face with a bear.

Settler completes and I start moving it towards Red Dot, the capital is now building an Archer.

Mining comes in and I let the research continue to Bronze Working.

IBT: The Bear eats the western Scout! Red Dot Scout fends off the Lion

2080 (4): Settler and Warrior are still moving. Red Dot Scout moves back towards Mali.

2000 (5): Tenoctitlan’s borders and population expand. Warrior and Settler are still moving safely.

All quiet on the Mali front. Quarry on the Marble is finished.

IBT:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_p1.JPG

We’re pathetic, says Livy…naturally he was tracked down and executed for this blasphemy.

1960 (6): Big Red One is founded on Red Dot!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_p2.JPG

I start it on an Obelisk to expand the borders. Suddenly we are second in Score!

Meanwhile the capital builds an Archer, and I set it to a Worker to start improving Big Red One. The Scout is sent to watch out for a Malinese Settler heading to Spices/Ivory.

1920 (7): Zzzzz

1880 (8): I send the Worker to farm the Wheat that we got in the expansion.

1840 (9): The Warrior finally arrives to defend Big Red One. Meanwhile the Scout stops to heal while watching Spices/Ivory.

1880 (10): Bronze Working comes in and I start on Writing. Our only nearby source of Copper is in a very awkward place: you may have to revise your dotmap Botl.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_p3.JPG

1760 (11): The Worker is finished and the capital starts on a Settler (for pink dot or maybe the copper, it won’t be finished during my turns). The Worker is ordered to build a road to Big Red One so the cities can share resources eventually.

1720 (12): Zzzzz

1680 (13): Zzzzz

1640 (14): Zzzzz

1600 (15): Zzzzz

For the next leader:

Writing is due in one turn. I recommend going for Alphabet next so we can see how the AI are doing for tech and possibly trade for some. The Settler is due in five turns. I recommend pink dot before France can get to it. Contrary to everyone’s predictions Mali made no move to either red dot or Spices/Ivory. We are losing money slowly from the treasury but we have plenty of time before it hits zero.

edit- on second thoughts Spices/Ivory might be a good bet since Mali seems to be ignoring it.

Here is the fixed save link:

Good going, I'm still not used to the lack of corruption in cities away from the capital :) Comes from 15 years of civ experience.

As we are on this course we should go for the green dot next, then worry about the closer spots.

Roster

BotlGnomz
The Caltrop
Sybot (Just played)
afpunk (Up)
AndrewN (On deck)

Got it. Will be playing it shortly.
Short term goals:
Found pink dot to help prevent French expansion.
Research Alphabet to open up trading possibilities.

I think the copper can wait until our 4th city, since as soon as we research iron working, which I think should be after alphabet, we'll be able to make jaguars regardless of resources. (Of course, combined arms are best, but we'll get there.)

1600BC(1)-Check to see if anything can be MMed, but everything looks good, nothing else to do.
1560BC(2)-Finish research on writing. Immediatly asked for Open Borders with the Incans, and sign.(We have plenty of time to make enemies.) Alphabet research begins. Scout moves SW. Worker starts mine on grass/hill north of the capital.
1520BC(3)-zzzzzzzz
1480BC(4)-Washington comes asking for open borders, granted for now. Malinese found city on hill below the ivory.
1440BC(5)-Mine finishes, MM capital to squeeze out an extra production towards the settler, due next turn.
1400BC(6)-Settler finished, sent towards pink dot. Send worker to irrigate flood plains. Capital set to make an archer
1360BC(7)-Zzzzz
1320BC(8)-Archer finishes. Realize the worker sent towards Big Red One has no protection, so send him that way. Capital set to make another archer.
1280BC(9)-Sign open borders with Arabia for scouting purposes.
1240BC(10)-Uh Oh, French have founded a city 2 squares above the Oasis. After much consideration, I decide to place to the right of the hill, which was suggested earlier as a possible location. This will cause some good tension with the French, however.
1200BC(11)-Settler in place to found next turn. Capital finishes archer, starts another.
1160BC(12)-Teotih....something or other founded, starts on obelisk for necessary culture. Big Red One finishes obelisk, starts barracks, as we'll likely have a lot of combat before too long.
1120BC(13)-Finish archer in capital, start on granary for one turn until growth, then will start worker for the new city. Barbarian warrior seen on the outskits of the capital, archer sent towards quarry to protect improvements.
1080BC(14)-Mansa Musa wants open borders....why not? Production in capital switched to settler, with intentions of worker afterwards. Worker around capital finishes floodplains, starts road to the newest city. French spotted sending settler NE of us, will see where they decide to settle soon...
1040BC(15)-Barbs seem to be MIA, archer sent back towards capital. Ready for end turn...

Notes: Alphabet due in 5 turns. Recommend Iron Working next, but that's your choice. See if there are any good tech trades available. Production in the new cities is rather poor. The workers and border expansion should be able to help that soon. Recommend a 3rd worker next in the capital as well.
Forgot to add, you will have to reduce tech rate this turn or the next. I usually let tech go at 100% as long as possible with the goody hut income before dropping back.

Attatched are the save and a shot of the current Aztec Empire.

That makes it me next. Got it, I'll play in a bit :)

Inherited turn: Napeoleon is just to the north with a settler/archer pair, not sure where they are going with them, but I suspect the bronze site. We also have 4 gold and losing 3 per turn so I reduce science to 90% for +1g and alphabet in 6. We are a bit light on forces so I start a chariot before the settler.

Nothing else to do, hit enter...

1000BC (1) Scout explores

IBT The French settler pair disappears from sight

975BC (2) The worker finishes the road so I move them to hook up the pigs that are inside out border. It occurs to me that we can speed up the Obelisk in Teo by working the plains forest.

950BC (3) Chariot finishes and I get a nice message :) I give the chariot combat 1

Somebody has automated the worker with a 'road to' command. It is considered bad manners to automate anything in a succession game. I eventually see the reference in Sybots write up. Also a group of archers have appeared in the capital. I don't know where they came from so I assume another goto command.

Napoleon has built Lyons just north of the Capital. I think we have found a target http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02-950BC0000.JPG

925BC (4) The road to Big Red One completes. I spot a French Axeman near Lyons :(

900BC (5) Nothing

875BC (6) Writing completes. Washington instantly appears wanting to swap for Meditation. Its a bit less but I agree. Napoleon now wants Mysticism for Fishing, seems good to me and we enter the Classical Era. I now get Iron Working off Saladin for Alphabet and we have Iron near the capital http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02-875BC0000.JPG

After alot of thinking I start on Maths

There is a barbarian city near the green dot :(

850BC (7) The borders at Big Red One expand. I shuffle the tiles around for some hammers.

I can now see the barbarian town of Ainu - Size 1 and defended by 3 warriors.

825BC (8) Settler finishes in capital. I start a Jaguar.

IBT A warrior inside Ainu attackes our archer in the jungle, we win :)

800BC (9) Napeoleon wants open borders, OK (I think)

Barracks complete in Big Red One, start a Jaguar.

Promote attackes archer to city garrison II

775BC (10) Stuff moves

750BC (11) Obleisk completes in Teotihuacan, start barracks.

Stonhenge completed by the Americans

725BC (12) Jag completes in capital, start another. Jag gets city raider promotion.

700BC (13) The Incans want us to cancel or deals with the Malinese. I think the answer has to be no.

675BC (14) Build Tlatelolco and start Obelisk.

I note that although I said I started a Jag in 725BC I forgot to add it to the queue (sorry). I add it now.

650BC (15) nada

625BC (16) I started this turn before I noticed that I had miscounted the number of turns I had played. I had already left the chariot and Jag unmoved for the next player. Sorry about this, I will play 1 turn less next time.

Notes:

I have left the Jag and chariot unmoved. The next player can attack the barbarian city or wait for the Jag to complete next turn. The advantage is ours in attack but I personally I would wait for a extra unit just in case.

Maths finishes soon. I would go for construction for cats next as Napoleon has this big target on his chest.

I also think we need a new settler to replace the barbarian city when we burn it down. It is currently one square away from the green dot and it is not best placed so we don't want it.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_BC-0625.Civ4SavedGame)


Roster

BotlGnomz (Up)
The Caltrop (On deck)
Sybot
afpunk
AndrewN (Just played)

I got it.
Minorly feasting though, so report may not be up until Tuesday.

A little tip, though, don't promote units until there's a reason to. You never know what will happen between now and then. City Raider is really no point in getting until you're about to attack a city, if nothing else you can use it to heal up if you're attacked before you reach a city to attack. You might also want to get Combat I instead if you realize you have to battle in the open.

Sounds like a fun variant. I'm guessing Isabella has the holy city for Judaism and neither her nor Washington seems to be nearby. My bet is that you'll get Confusianism from it's future founders Mali. Any takers?

Looks like a good set of turns AndrewN.

The tech trades look great, and the direction of the tech research is good too. If we're planning early warfare, which is likely as soon as we get a religion, catapults are something to beeline for.


I take responsibility for the archer, sorry about that. I mentioned it, but it didn't occur to me at the time that it was poor form. Succussion game newbie here:blush: . I'll keep it in mind for later turns though.

Thanks for the tip Gufnork. I learned that about the city raider units from reading RB1...makes complete sense.

A little tip, though, don't promote units until there's a reason to. You never know what will happen between now and then. City Raider is really no point in getting until you're about to attack a city, if nothing else you can use it to heal up if you're attacked before you reach a city to attack. You might also want to get Combat I instead if you realize you have to battle in the open.

Yep, I appreciate that, but the Jag I built was going to attack a city as soon as it got there and I had a chariot to attack with anyway.

Sounds like a fun variant. I'm guessing Isabella has the holy city for Judaism and neither her nor Washington seems to be nearby. My bet is that you'll get Confusianism from it's future founders Mali. Any takers?

I have no idea what religion we will get, but I have found religions seem to spread too slowly by themselves so we my be waiting a while :)

Looks like a good set of turns AndrewN.

The tech trades look great, and the direction of the tech research is good too. If we're planning early warfare, which is likely as soon as we get a religion, catapults are something to beeline for.

In all the trades I gave the AI the advantage, but then I tended to do that in civ3, we still get the tech sooner.

Its odd, but I haven't been tech trading much in my solo games, not sure why, but it saved us about 16 turns on the techs we did get and allowed us to start pumping out our UU :)

I take responsibility for the archer, sorry about that. I mentioned it, but it didn't occur to me at the time that it was poor form. Succussion game newbie here . I'll keep it in mind for later turns though.

NP

Nice work with the tech trades, we can now build our UU! It would have been better if we didn't have iron right next door, though. Then we could justify the Jaguar over the Swordsman. But then you never know how these things will turn out.

Perhaps an early strike versus Napolean is in order?

Wow! It's not very often that I have a good idea, much less be an inspiration! :lol:

I have no idea what religion we will get, but I have found religions seem to spread too slowly by themselves so we my be waiting a while :)

Yeah, depending on how close your neighbors are and how actively they pursue religion techs, it can take a while. It's unusual that iron-working is already on the board and only Isabella has found a religion.

If you all really want to get a religion ASAP, you may try building roads to others' nearby cities. I seem to remember something about religion spreads by itself along trade routes (roads, rivers, seas).

Still, the longer it takes for religion to come to the Aztecs, the longer the Aztecs have to build up their infrastructure and armies. :)

It's unusual that iron-working is already on the board and only Isabella has found a religion.


America has Buddhism, and an Unknown Civ has Judaism.

America has Buddhism, and an Unknown Civ has Judaism.

Oh! So it is!

I really should learn how to read instead of just looking at the pictures.

:blush:

Oh! So it is!

I really should learn how to read instead of just looking at the pictures.

:blush:

But the pictures are so pretty! :D

625 (0): Move jag and Chariot 1 SE, Chariot attacks barb warrior to its east and wins + promotes without a scratch. Sign Open Borders with Isabella.
600 (1): Big Red One Jaguar -> Granary. Chariot moves into position, promotes itself to Shock, and attacks. Kills a barb warrior, but takes damage. Jag is in position to destroy the last defender next turn.
575 (2): Get Mathematics. Start Construction. Teotihuacan Barracks -> Worker. Tenochtitlan Jag -> wants to build a Granary with one turn left, but I make it start a Settler. The Granary is currently useless, as we're at our happiness max and I would be building the settler anyway, so why not get it out a turn earlier? Jag attacks and sacks the barb city. Got 22 gold, which allows us to run 90% sci for a while longer. All military is rendevouzing at BRD. I bite the bullet and send Huayna Capac IW for Priesthood and Sailing. We need the techs, and IW is going around quickly, so I want to sell it before it's worthless.
550 (3): zzz
525 (4): Gold hooked up, worker heads to Tlatelolco to farm the rice.
500 (5): Teotihuacan's borders expand.
475 (6): Inca demand Alphabet. F*** you. They founded Confucianism and convert.
450 (7): not much.
425 (8): Teotihuacan Worker -> Granary. Tenochtitlan Settler -> Oracle (SIX TURNS!) Archer fortifies on the target spot for the Settler.
400 (9): zzz
375 (10): zzz
350 (11): Played an extra to even out the turns. We are the most powerful civilization in the world. Texcoco is founded and it begins an Obelisk.

When the Oracle is finished, we should grab Currency. MARKETS! WE NEED THEM! Then follow the AIs up the founded religion tech tree until we can get to Courthouses and such.
Oh, and the French tried to ninja our Iron. I believe that They Have Chosen Unwisely. I was going to declare, but I figured the next leader should get us ready. Build up more jags and chariots and get two settler pairs ready. I want us to take the two cities nearby, raze, and replace with our own. We may decide to go and destroy France while we're at it, but I think that those two cities, at least, need to go. Iron Ninja can be resettled on the same spot, but Lyons should be moved a bit.

Goals:

1-Mobilize for invasion of France
I do not think I did very well in this regard. I only produced one unit (A catapult). And moved the army in Big Red One to the border of Rhiems. I just feel that there are too few units available (both for conquest and for defense; Especially onour northern border).

2-Build Two Settlers
Again, I failed horribly. I only have one settler in the works. Sorry.

3-Get Currency
I succeeded, but, then again, that was a no-brainer.

Turn Summary

350 BC: Mansa Musa (Mali) attempts to extort alphabet. I refuse.
325 BC: Nothing
300 BC: We are nearly broke! I turn down science to 70%.
275 BC: Our open borders agreement with Napolean has expired. The Oracle completes in Tenochitlan, and we take currency as our free tech. In an attempt to make more money to keep us out of debt, I make the poor choice to trade Mathematics for Polythiesm and 60 gold from Washington.
250 BC: America adopts the civic Organized religion, and Mansa Musa converts to Hinduism.
225 BC: Construction->Monothiesm
200 BC: Rice to Saladin for cows, and I also trade him the Polythiesm we picked up from America for 80 gold. We can run science for a while now, hopefully.
150 BC: Nothing
125 BC: Nothing

OK, I've had a look and the position is not good.

Why have we been building so many granaries? Their use is so limited in the early game as we are happyness limited. We currently have 3 and a fourth building before a barracks. Thats 180 shileds that could have been used for other purposes. Also the city that is building a granary is size 4 and will be 6 before it has finished and we will have to stop growing at that point.

We are also extremely short on workers, only 3 for 5 cities, and fighting units.

The market in the capital might be helpful later, but not at the moment.

We need to cannon up very quickly. We need to start pumping out Jags from the capital now, it will produce 3 in 8 turns, also build a couple from the town building the settler and some cats from the granary town. I am also tempted to swap the Oblesk to something more useful as well. More units will also stop the AI from demanding stuff from us.

I was surprised to see we haven't built any forges, then I noticed we haven't researched Metal Casting yet :confused: , I find this is a priority in my games. Calendar is also out there and available and the science rate can be edged up a bit for a while.

Its typical we are fighting Napeoleon as he gets the Agressive bonus as well :(

OK, I've had a look and the position is not good.

Why have we been building so many granaries?
(

Sorry... as I have already said... I'm a newb. :( I continued making grans because they were already being made in my 0th turn.

I built granaries because we are fairly food-light, especially in Teotihuacan. Having a buffer against starvation or a leg up on growing to max happy seemed good to me.
It was a judgment call. But I think that we are now in a better position to pump military. With Construction, we can put together two assault squads of cats, jags, and chariots, send one to Rheims, the other to Lyons, whamkillrazereplacesueforpeace. Seven minute war.

Sorry... as I have already said... I'm a newb. :( I continued making grans because they were already being made in my 0th turn.

Its OK, my comments wern't directed at just you, but at the group as a whole.

It could be that I wait until its too late before building them (and I didn't build them much in civ 3 either :) ), but in my experience there are better things that can be built in the early game, mainly barracks and units but I tend to be a little bit aggressive :lol:

Remeber the very worst thing we can do is to go over the happyness limit in any cities. If the city gets a little unhealthy then it only costs an extra food, if it gets unhappy then the new person dose nothing but eat. A the moment out cities are limited to size 6 (7 in the capital due to the palace) so we need to MM them to stop growing at that size.

I built granaries because we are fairly food-light, especially in Teotihuacan. Having a buffer against starvation or a leg up on growing to max happy seemed good to me.
It was a judgment call. But I think that we are now in a better position to pump military. With Construction, we can put together two assault squads of cats, jags, and chariots, send one to Rheims, the other to Lyons, whamkillrazereplacesueforpeace. Seven minute war.

Sounds good to me :ar15: :)

Its obviously a different play style, but I don't even consider Granaries at this stage.

Its has just occured to me, neither French city has had a borders expansion yet, that means we don't need cats unless we are going to suicide them for the collateral damage, in which case we will only need 1 each.

Also (typically) Reims is sitting on our road. Fortunately we have sailing so all our cities are still trading along the coast :) As Sirian says - 'its better to be lucky then good'

Its has just occured to me, neither French city has had a borders expansion yet, that means we don't need cats unless we are going to suicide them for the collateral damage, in which case we will only need 1 each.

I assumed Orleans was also a target... that has a 20% defensive bonus, I think.

I assumed Orleans was also a target... that has a 20% defensive bonus, I think.

It is, as is Paris :D. I have this spike with no head on which I find disturbing. But for the initial battles we would do better with some extra city raider 1 jag's, or even some shock and cover promoted Jag's.

When I get home from school, I'll poke around the save, but I think that our primary targets are Rheims and Lyons, as those spots are OURS BY DIVINE RIGHT!
However, we *could* try to march against France's main body of cities. I wouldn't recommend trying to capture (we need markets and courthouses STAT), but I think that UTTERLY DESTROYING THEIR CIVILIZATION wouldn't be hard to finangle :hammer::hammer:hammer:. For that plan to work, combined arms are a must. We could destroy Rheims and Lyons, replace (actually, since I'd recommend refounding Rheims on the same spot, we don't *need* to destroy it... but I like blowing things up :lol:), then combine our assault groups and march through Teotihuacan against France by way of Orleans, meeting up with some cats on the way.
I never get tired of saying Aztec city names. It's so fun! :D

When I get home from school, I'll poke around the save, but I think that our primary targets are Rheims and Lyons, as those spots are OURS BY DIVINE RIGHT!
However, we *could* try to march against France's main body of cities. I wouldn't recommend trying to capture (we need markets and courthouses STAT), but I think that UTTERLY DESTROYING THEIR CIVILIZATION wouldn't be hard to finangle :hammer::hammer:hammer:. For that plan to work, combined arms are a must. We could destroy Rheims and Lyons, replace (actually, since I'd recommend refounding Rheims on the same spot, we don't *need* to destroy it... but I like blowing things up :lol:), then combine our assault groups and march through Teotihuacan against France by way of Orleans, meeting up with some cats on the way.
I never get tired of saying Aztec city names. It's so fun! :D

By amazing coincidence this would be exactly my plan. If we take Lyons and Rheims then we should have taken all the spare units France has lying around and at this point I would also be tempted to march on Paris.

Orleans and Paris I think can be captured, there is no chance of the city flipping back and it will save us a couple of settlers.

BTW, I hate the Aztec city names, I can never spell them correctly :(

My turns: mostly build-up with some...actually just build-up. Once again the pictures are poor quality. Which is not because I use Paint (Paint Shop Pro causes the exact same thing). I'll try and find a solution by my next turn.

100 BC (Turn 0): First thing I notice is the Axemen that France has in Rheims. They will slaughter our Jaguars without support so I move the Catapult towards our stack. I leave promotions for the time being. Switch Tlatelolco from Granary to Barracks, since we don’t need growth atm. Fiddle with Teotihuacan and the capital so they stop growing (happiness limit) and gain a few hammers each.

IBT: We have half a million inhabitants. Hooray! [party]

75 BC (1): Zzzzz

50 BC (2): Teotihuacan finishes Jaguar, starts catapult. I send the Jaguar to the hill near Lyons

25 BC (3): Capital finishes Market, starts on Catapult. The Market allows me to bump research back up to 80% without a loss. Texcoco finishes Obelisk starts on Work Boat to exploit the clams we will have shortly.

1 AD (4): Zzzzz

25 AD (5): Jaguar arrives on hill by Lyons. An Archer, A Spearman and an Axeman defend it. Elsewhere France has a Settler pair moving out somewhere.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_p4.JPG

50 AD (6): Ignore the screenshot, Napoleon just added an extra Archer IBT. Tlatelolco expands its borders and steals a tile from the inner radius of Djenne. Calendar is up for trade from Mali, but I decide not to take it yet as it would obsolete the Obelisk that is giving Texcoco its expansion soon. Also, the French Settler appears to be heading west.

75 AD (7): Code of Laws finishes, start Horseback Riding (can’t let those horses go to waste!). The capital finishes a Catapult, starts on a Jaguar. Teotihuacan does exactly the same. Move both to Rheims stack.

100 AD (8): Lyons expands, knocking back my scout Jaguar. Not much else.

125 AD (9): Capital finishes a Jaguar, starts another one. Tlatelolco finishes the Barracks, starts a Catapult. France is patrolling Axemen around outside Lyons and Rheims. Do they know something’s up?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_p5.JPG
Those guys just go round in circles inside the borders rather than fortifying in the city. :confused:

150 AD (10): Zzzzz

For next leader: Rheims attack stack is finished once the Jag and Cat arrive IMO. Those Axes are the ones to watch out for in the attack. I have no idea on research plans, but trade for Calendar as soon as Texcoco has expanded so we can build plantations. Big Red One has almost finished its Settler; maybe it should work on military as well. I have left promotions up to the eventual attacker, though Shock looks to be important vs those Axes.

My only concern about the upcoming war is that I fear we arn't prepared for the inevitable counter-attack from the north... I mean, we only has (what is it...) 2 units in Teo, a jaguar scout, and 1 archer in Teno. Is that enough to defend while the army from Rhiems is moving north?

Got it, will be playing soon. :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: Here I come France!

150AD(1)-Zzzz. Things seem good enough for me to declare next turn.
175AD(2)-War declared and troops moved into position. This is going to be fun.
200AD(3)-Horseback Riding finished, Metal Casting started. Rheims captured, with the help of this lucky catapult. Odds were definitely not in his favor.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_Lucky_Cat.JPG
I realize there was some disagreement about whether to capture or raze, but I didn't see any reason to burn a settler here (the city is in a good place). Northern troops get into place.
225AD(4)-Half of the Rheims troops go to reinforce the troops heading for Lyons. Others go to Teotihuacan to mobolize for the French heartland.
250AD(5)-Trade Code of Laws for Calender with Mansa Musa (even trade). As improvements finish, I micromanaged a couple of cities that were at their happiness limit. Troops continue to move into position.
275AD(6)-Mostly Zzzz, IBT, a swordsman from Lyons with only combat 1 killed our combat 1, shock, fortified on a hill for 2 turns jaguar, and ended up only at 4.7/6. Bah! I retaliate by using our other jaguar to kill one of the archers in Lyons. Not usually the best tactic, but with less units in the city, the chance of an attack on our forces will be less likely.
300AD(7)-Zzzz. Lyons should be falling within the next 2 turns, though.
325AD(8)-First catapult reduces the defense a bit in Lyons, next turn the battle starts for real.
350AD(9)-Suicide the 2 catapults. In the end, 1 half strength swordsman left in the city with a brand new horse archer waiting outside. Will be able to burn it down next turn.
375AD(10)-Lyons falls to our horse archer and I burn it down.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_Lyons_Falls.JPG
Our settler is ready to go up there, with an archer. Might be a good idea to divert one of our units from the main force too, depending on France's actions. Troops continue to gather for the assault on the heart of France. I think we can have France gone within the next 20 turns. :hammer: :hammer:


Notes:
Metal Casting due in 2 turns. The capital will expand in 3 turns, and the iron will then be within our borders. I have a worker there making a road already. Also, the capital will starve in about 20 turns. Its the best MM I can do though to maximize production. Keep up the heat on the French. They'll be out of our way soon. Still no religion though.:sad:

Excellent! :goodjob:
We can now send a settler up to Lyons's former location and put a new badass city.
Combined arms are sexy.

Is it me now? Come on guys, roster, roster :)

I have it, but I won't play to tomorrow as it is ten to 2 in the morning here, Just finished a spaceship launch with France, appropriate really :D

Edit: Are we patching to the new version?

BotlGnomz (On Deck)
The Caltrop
Sybot
afpunk (Just Played)
AndrewN (Now Playing)

Happy AndrewN? :p

Edit: Are we patching to the new version?
Will patching cause any problems with the save file?

Patch was pulled, so I'm guessing we're staying vanilla :p

Why was it pulled?

Bug slipped through the cracks.
I have faith! Civilization 4 will become awesomer!
:worship: ALL HAIL SOREN!

Wow, the war turned out better than I expected it would from declaring so soon. I'm mostly cautious in Civ IV combat until I get a good feel for it. Good work taking those cities!

Getting the patch, even if it comes out properly would not be a good idea. It would probably screw around with the saves like it did in Civ3.

Sorry for the delay, I didn't have the time to play yesterday that I thought I would. I played this game in version 1.09

Inherited turn - move stuff around. Promote the horse archer to shock. Promote archer to city defense and fortify in Big Red One. Move the warrior from Big Red One towards Reims so that we can use the level 3 Jag for more attacks.

425AD (1)
Teo: Jag -> Jag
That was a bit worring, a combat 1 and shock promoted horse archer nearly loses to a combat 1 axeman, 0.2 health left

450AD (2)
Metal Casting in. Research started on Lit
Promote a couple of Jags to cover and shock and advance on Orleans

475AD (3)
Cat finished in the capital start a Jag
Granary finished in Tla, start worker (we need workers)
The Pyramids have been completed and Napoleon has converted to Buddism. Looks like we will have a religon soon :)

Battle for Orleans:
Cats bonbard the defenses from 50% to 25%

500AD (4)
Big Red One: Archer -> Archer
Tex: Jag -> Jag

Cowes formed on the north coast, started on library

Battle for Orleans:
Cats reduce the defenses to 0
Cover promoted Jag defeats archer
Shock Promoted Jag defeats spearman without a scratch and Orleans falls. We have 5 turns until it comes out of resistance and we have a religion. We are now Buddists :)

I send a Horse Archer north to scout for Paris

520AD (5)
Damn, a spearman comes out of the fog and kills the Horse archer :(
Capital: Jag -> forge
Teo: Jag -> forge

Kill offending spearman with a Jag (no damage) and advance towards where I think Paris is.

The spices plantation has finished giving us +1 happy which is fortunate as WW is starting to kick in.

540AD (6)
Lit in, start on Monarchy
Found Paris, defense 40%, defended by 3 archers and a swordsman. It'll take a few turns to assemble the forces for an attack

560AD (7)
Big Red One: Archer -> forge
Our Iron mine has finished :)

580AD (8)
Barbarian city spotted near Washington

Battle for Paris:
Cats reduce the defenses from 40% to 14%
Jag kills archer
Jag loses to swordsman
Jag loses to archer
Horse archer kills archer

600AD (9)
Tla: worker -> worker
Tex: Jag -> forge
Orleans comes out of resistance, start library

Battle for Paris:
Cats reduce defences to 0
Send in 2 suicide cats and the second retreats
Jag kills archer
Chariot kills swordsman
Jag kills swordsman and Paris falls. We have 6 turns until the resistance ends.

France isn't dead so they must have another city somewhere. Its location isn't obvious. I'll stop there so we can discuss the position. france has at least one more city, but I don't know where it is. War weriness is also kicking in so I think we should make peace with France so that we can build up some infrastructure. We need libraries, forges and courthouses in all our cities

I have started a plantation on the incense next to the capital and Monarchy will finish soon so we can build a winery near Big Red One for even more happyness. This will allow all our cities to grow to size 9 and the capital to 10.

There is a number on unmoved and unpromoted units for the next player to do as he sees fit.

Some pictures for the lurkers

Paris/Orleans
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Civ4ScreenShot00013.JPG

and our empire
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Civ4ScreenShot00024.JPG

and the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_AD-0600.Civ4SavedGame)

Got it.
Great set :D

Great Job AndrewN. You definitely finished off the heart of France faster than I expected (of course, I couldn't see the defense in Paris;) ). I agree with ending the war with France and building up our infrastructure. Without courthouses in our most expensive cities, we will be broke in about 20 turns at 80% research, so those are a definite must as soon as Monarcy is researched. Also, we will likely get our religion soon, and we want to be able to mount a strike for our holy city as soon as possible after that happens.:D

Summary:
I found and razed France's last city.
Buddhism was in Orleans, so I converted to Buddhism.
We got Monarchy and are due for Feudalism soon.
After Feudalism, I think we should head for Guilds, but pick up Optics along the way and circumnavigate the globe.
I'm building Forges and Courthouses.
Hooked up luxes and trading for others. That plus Hereditary Rule = lots of happy.
Hinduism has spread in Rheims. Isabella must die.

Actually, I wanted to discuss that. Should the fact that we inherited a Buddhist city make us Buddhists, OR should the fact that Hinduism actually SPREAD to us make us Hindus, OR should the fact that neither of those cities are actually Aztec make us religionless until one spreads to one of our core cities (Tlatelolco, Texcoco, Red Dot, or Tenochtitlan)? Because that determines against whom we are waging holy war once Theocracy comes in.

In regards to the religion issue, I'd say the best course would be for either Hinduism as it spread to us (which city, btw?), or wait for a religion to spread to a core city. Orleans barely had any chance to learn the Buddhist ways before we were knocking on the door. We might have even gotten rid of a huge portion of the worshipping population.

Good job on finding France's last city, its always best to kill the AI off :) .

Regarding the religion, in the initial post you used the word 'spread'. This to me implies we take Hinduism as it spread as opposed to finding a religion in a captured city. My vote is for Hinduism.

I have no problems with working towards guilds, but can we get mono and use Organised Religion for a while? The 25% hammer bonus is always useful and we can spread whichever religion we pick quickly.

As to the circumnavigation bonus, its nice but as we are on a pangea I suspect it is going to be of limited use :)

We need to find both holy cities, the one for our religion and the other one need to be captured according the the varient we are playing. Also, although it is not mentioned, it would be in keeping with the varient to raze the holy city of the religion we don't pick.

Edit:

Ok, I have had a look at the game and all I can say is 'typical' :crazyeye: . Whichever religion we pick we will have to trek all the way over the continent as the holy cities are Washington and Madrid which happen to belong to the 2 civs furthest away :cry:

We have had Monotheism for a while. I elected not to switch because our finances are in awful shape enough and because I wasn't sure what our state religion should be :P.
The thing about the circumnavigating bonus is that it's going to be extremely relevant for our war on Spain, as Spain is on the other side of the continent.
Note for the next leader: Convert us to Hinduism. We are Hindus, and from this point on, if Madrid ever is razed, we lose.
I have a feeling we're going to be going for a Domination or Conquest victory in this game. We've already swallowed France to become the largest civ in the game by land mass and second largest in population. We have enough room on our side of the map for one more city, and then we should build infrastructure in the captured cities to gear up for our war on Spain. We have plenty of military. As such, after Spain, we should continue moving east from Spain to raze Washington, holy city of Buddhism. Then we can crush Arabia, Mali, and Inca in a pincer attack.
I see this game ending before cavs. Certainly before tanks.

Edit:
@Andrew: Well, that's why I want the navigation bonus! It means that our ships take less time to ferry troops back and forth. Once we take Toledo and establish a beachhead, we can (if I'm remembering the geography of Spain correctly) march straight on to Madrid with cats, bows, jags, and knights, take it, hold our position against the counterattack, then move on and conquer the rest of Spain when our reinforcements arrive and they come out of disorder. We could also enlist aid in the war, though to be safe we should wait until we conquer Madrid.
Either way, we are going to have to attack by sea. It's shorter than marching across the map.

Heh heh... the Aztecs conquering Spain... who'd of thunk it? :king:

Edit: I have the save... I'll play tommorrow though.

Hm... it seems we now have incompatiple game versions, Bottle. ???

AndrewN, and I presume Botl too, played it with version 1.09. Have you got the patch yet?

Edit:
@Andrew: Well, that's why I want the navigation bonus! It means that our ships take less time to ferry troops back and forth. Once we take Toledo and establish a beachhead, we can (if I'm remembering the geography of Spain correctly) march straight on to Madrid with cats, bows, jags, and knights, take it, hold our position against the counterattack, then move on and conquer the rest of Spain when our reinforcements arrive and they come out of disorder. We could also enlist aid in the war, though to be safe we should wait until we conquer Madrid.
Either way, we are going to have to attack by sea. It's shorter than marching across the map.

OK, I didn't think of that :). I was anticipating marching all the way across the continent to get to Spain. The advantage of my route is we can use the roads of the AI and we can take as many units as we need. The disadvantage is it takes ages :lol:

The only problem with a seabourne invasion is if the AI hits back before reinforcements can get there as the initial invasion will probably be only 9 -12 units. IIRC there is a slightly isolated Spanish city which may make a good target.

I just get slightly (OK, very) nervous about invading via sea :)

AndrewN, and I presume Botl too, played it with version 1.09. Have you got the patch yet?

The patch was pulled before I could download... has it been re-released?

The patch was pulled before I could download... has it been re-released?

That was the old patch (version 1.08). Version 1.09 is available now which dosen't have the bugs 1.08 did

Indeed. I patched to 1.09 within an hour of it hitting the streets. I have no life :lol:.
Actually, I do, which is why I won't be able to play before Monday >_<. Sorry. I may still be able to comment.
And yes, Toledo is more isolated. It will make a good spot to strike quickly and hold out until we have enough forces to sally forth to Madrid.

Blast! Just drop me from the SG... My comp is too slow for some reason now (either the patch, or just lag from all the stuff in the game now...). Sorry.

Sorry to see you go :(

I've got the save now, I'll play it shortly.

I don’t think we’ll be able to reach Isabella, as Galleys can’t enter Ocean and there’s a lot of open water between out territory and hers. My strategy is therefore to beeline for Astronomy so we can get Galleons, while fixing up our infrastructure following the war.

800 AD (Turn 0):
Ouch! What a deficit! I lower science a notch to alleviate some of it. Also switch to Hinduism and Organised Religion. Cancel the Buddhist Temple, since we’re not allowed to build any other religious buildings besides Hindu.

IBT: Herodotus says we’re the largest civ in the world! Washington is second, and Isabella is last.

820 (1):
Capital- Courthouse > Settler
Texcoco- Forge > Marketplace

We need a Settler ASAP; Saladin has one coming our way that’ll probably steal our land.

IBT: We enter the Medieval Era

840 (2):
Feudalism > Machinery (12)
Rheims- Library > Hindu Missionary

Move some Workers

IBT: The Great Library is built by Arabia.

860 (3):
Mahavira (a Great Prophet) is born in the capital. I have no idea what to do with him. We could discover Theology (no way, that would force us to declare on Isabella, which would just be annoying), wait until we capture Madrid and build the Shrine (no point, since we’ll probably get another by then anyway), or merge him into a city. I take the last choice, and put him in the capital.

More Workers moving.

IBT: Mali get a Great Engineer

880 (4):

Endless Worker moving. Zzzzz.

900 (5):
Capital- Settler > Archer
Tlatelolco- Forge > Library

Good turn for Mali as they found Taoism in Djenne complete the Parthenon. Teotihuacan and Rheims borders expand.

IBT: Mali asks us to convert to Buddhism. Naturally I decline.

920 (6):
Capital- Archer > Library
Orleans- Barracks > Forge

Mali has spread Taoism in Tlatelolco. He must be killed! Tlaxcala founded on the eastern coast. It starts on a Lighthouse.

I did have a pic here but for some reason the upload wouldn't work.

I take research down to 40% to prevent us going into the red. GPT is now +1 with Machinery due in 13.

940 (7):

Zzzzz

960 (8):
Paris- Forge > Library

Other than that- Zzzzz

IBT: Inca asks us to cancel deals with Mali, but I decline. Arabia gets a Great Scientist around this time (forgot the exact date)

980 (9):

Never mind about that Arabian Settler, it seems to be heading north, not east.

1000 AD (10):
Capital- Library > Jaguar
Rheims- Hindu Missionary > Hindu Missionary

The missionary is sent to Big Red One, since the capital is mostly finished building buildings for the time being. Tlatelolco celebrates a WLTKD. Move research back up to 50% for Machinery in 6 at –1 GPT.

For next leader:
Either wait until we have Galleons to cross the ocean between us and Spain, or march overland to get there. A difficult choice. It might be a good idea to prepare for an invasion of Mali if you go overland, seeing as how he spread Taoism to us.

Here is the save:

OPTICS, SIR!
This is not Civ3!
We have Caravels!
:hammer: :hammer: :hammer:
Let us circumnavigate the glove ASAP!
Then we can beeline to Astronomy and pile our hordes onto Galleons!

Got the save. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but should have it played by tonight. I do think the circumnavigate bonus would be beneficial.

Also, sorry to see you go The Caltrop. If you get everything worked out, maybe you can join back in.

BotlGnomz thats what I was doing...

We need Machinery (and Compass) to get Optics and Caravels.

Ah. My bad <_< >_>.
How's it coming, afpunk?

Well, I got a little caught up in the GOTM, so these turns are a little later than I originally planned. The pre-plan for my turns is to keep building up infrastructure to get our economy under control, and spread our religion within our own borders.

The only decision I can see that I don't agree with is Texcoco making a market. +25% means just 1 more commerce, where a courthouse instead would save at least 2 gold, and is cheaper to make.

1000AD(1)-MMed to pump out our first missionary in two fewer turns. Not too much else to do at the moment :) .

IBT-Isabella comes offering fish for spices. I take it, even though it won't last too long.


1010AD(2)-Market finishes in Texcoco, starts on a courthouse. We now have 2 million citizens! Confucianism spreads to Paris. That adds the Incan empire to our to do list.

1020AD(3)-Big Red One finishes work on forge and starts a courthouse, since the maitenance is up to 6. I spread Hinduism in Tenochtitlan, which should be a much better missionary pump than Rheims.

1030AD(4)-Tenochtitlan finishes lighthouse, starts hindu missionary. Not much else to do. Turns without war go buy a little fast :) .

1040AD(5)-Tenochtitlan finishes its missionary and starts another. Rheims finishes its missionary and starts a forge.

IBT- Huayna Capac offers furs for crab. I accept.

1050AD(6)-Tlatelolco finishes library, begins courthouse. Tenochtitlan continues with another missionary. I spread Hinduism to Big Red One and Tlaxcala. Our religion is becoming widespread throughout our empire! Also, we're no longer losing money at 50% research. I'm not sure if that's really a good thing ;) but our economy is getting there at least.

1060AD(7)-Research completes on Machinery, and I start on Optics. Cowes finishes library, begins on a lighthouse (with all of the tundra, it probably won't be much more than a fishing colony for a long time. Paris finishes library, begins courthouse. Hinduism spreads to Cowes.

1070AD(8)-Not much happening besides worker actions, Tenochtitlan continues the missionary pump.

1080AD(9)-Texcoco finishes its courthouse, and starts on a lighthouse. Teotihuacan finishes market, starts on a Hindu Monstery. Hinduism spreads in Orleans. We are now making a profit at 50% research!

1090AD(10)-Missionary pump continues work in Tenochtitlan, just a few more cities in our empire to convert.


Overall, a fairly boring set of turns. However, our religion is spreading like wildfire, and our economy is finally getting under control. Compass is due in just a few turns, and then research on Optics can begin. We have 3 holy cities to conquer, so hopefully everything will be under control soon.:)

Got it

I'll see what I can do about setting up a visit to Isabella :)

Inherited turn: Yep, the economy sucks :(. Finish moving the few unmoved units. Research can be set to 60% for a few turns.

1110AD (1)
Ten: Hindu Missionary -> The Colossus (due in 8). Hey you never know :)
Teo: Hindu Missionary -> Library
Tex: Lighthouse -> Library
The borders of Paris expand :) MM Paris and convert to Hinduism.

OK, now I am puzzled. I am sure we finished 2 Hindu Missionaries this turn, plus the one I already had to convert Paris, but I can only see one now. I will recheck this when I have finished my turns.

1120AD (2)
We discover the use of Compasses and start on Optics due in 8.
The borders of Tlatelolco expand.

1130AD (3)
Orleans: Forge -> Courthouse
Science back to 50%

1140AD (4)
Big Red One: Courthouse -> Library
Paris: Courthouse -> Harbour
Those 2 courthouses gives us an extra 7gpt
Hinduism spreads to Tlatelolco; we need one more missionary to convert our last city, I thought I had built it (see above) but I will fit in in ASAP.

1150AD (5)
Mali wants compass. No chance
The borders of Tlaxcala expand. We now control the copper and wines.

1160AD (6)
Teo: Library -> Hindu Missionary
Cowes: Lighthouse -> Courthouse
The capital celebrates a 'We love the Me day' :)
Science can go back to 60%

1170AD (7)
Tlatelolco: Courthouse -> Market
We now have 2 cities that love me, I have never been so popular :)

1180AD (8)
Texcoco: Library -> Harbour
Paris: Harbour -> Lighthouse

1190AD (9)
We complete The Colossus and our economy jumps by 7gpt which implies a gain of 18gpt in total
Ten: The Colossus -> Harbour
Teo: Hindu Missionary -> Hindu Temple
Rheims: Forge -> Courthouse

1200AD (10)
Optics discovered. Research into Guilds started
Orleans: Courthouse -> Library
I swapped the capital to a Caravel


Thats all folks :)

There has been no research put into Guilds so that can be changed is necessary. I wasn't sure what to do next, by our variation rules I would have researched Theology ASAP so we could convert to it, but as nobody else had done so I thought Knights would be nice.

We are now making 13gpt at 60% research, or losing 5gpt at 70%. I have left it at 60% for the moment. We are also paying for 2 units. One of these is a warrior at Rhiems which is doing us no good at all and I would be tempted to dispand it although I haven't done it yet.

Now I have finished my turns I replayed the first end of turn again, we did complete 2 Hindu Missionaries but we only had one when I looked in the city, can somebody else play the first turn after the last save and see if it happens to them?

Roster

BotlGnomz (up)
Sybot (on deck)
afpunk
AndrewN (just played)

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_AD-1200.Civ4SavedGame)

I got it.
Will play and post later today or tomorrow.

1200 (0): Flip through the screens, reassign some tiles here and there.
1210 (1): Paris Lighthouse -> Granary
1220 (2): Teotihuacan Temple -> Heroic Epic
1230 (3): Tenochtitlan Caravel -> Harbor. Big Red One Library -> Monastery. Texcoco Harbor -> Monastery. Tlaxcala Lighthouse -> Forge.
1240 (4): Paris Granary -> Market. 90g and Machinery -> Saladin for Civil Service. Switch to Bureaucracy. While upkeep increases, the money pulled in by Tenochtitlan increases MUCH more and we have 20 gpt. I raise science a notch and we fall to +1 gpt.
1250 (5): Tenochtitlan Harbor -> Monastery.
1260 (6): Tenochtitlan Monastery -> National Epic
1270 (7): Big Red One Monastery -> Market. Texcoco Monastery -> Granary. We have copper online. We've circled the globe but no message pops up. I check the map to make sure we have a tile from each longitude and check the event log. Yup, we're the first. I am pissed. I hit enter with disgust.
1280 (8): Oh, we get the circumnavigation bonus. Guess it's like religion founding from free techs; doesn't show until next turn. Izzy wants Open Borders. Sure. Why not? We're not ready to fight you yet. Guilds -> Gunpowder. Orleans Library -> Monastery. Set Caravel to explore; maybe it can find some islands to colonize.
1290 (9): Mansa wants to give us all his gold and Philosophy for Guilds. No. Philosophy does nothing for us. Inca wants to cut off Mansa. Bite me; nobody likes you and Mansa is okay with us. Tlatelolco Market -> Lighthouse.
1300 (10): Our epics complete and both begin Grocers. Paris Market -> Monastery.

Infrastructure is going up all over the land. Soon, we can stuff a Barracks into every town, switch to Vassalage, and begin to crank out Knights. After Gunpowder, grab Astronomy and let's get our fleet built. Then, research or trade for Theology, become a theocracy, poise our fleet outside her borders, and declare on Isabella.
The center of Spain will be a lovely place for our Forbidden Palace :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

Sybot, have you got it?

I've got it, I'll play tonight or tomorrow.

1300 AD (Turn 0): Everything seems to be in order…I hit end turn.

IBT: Saladin wants to trade Music plus some gold for Guilds. I refuse, since I want to keep the military advantage we currently have.

1310 (1):
Texcoco: Granary > Grocer
Rheims: Courthouse > Granary

The Aztec Empire holds 5 million people! I check the big picture and we have three times as much population as the rival average. Saladin starts a GA. Workers do building etc.

1320 (2):
Cowes: Courthouse > Forge

1330 (3):
Orleans: Hindu Monastery > Catapult
Paris: Hindu Monastery > Barracks

Military production is going to start ramping up from now on. I won’t switch to Vassalage until the first unit is almost complete, that way it will allow us to keep the improved capital and save some money for a while.

1340 (4):
We enter the Renaissance!
Gunpowder > Astronomy (11)
Capital: Grocer > Knight
Tlatelolco: Lighthouse > Hindu Monastery

1350 (5):
Paris: Barracks > Knight

Isabella completed the Sistine Chapel in Seville. Oh well, just another Wonder for us to capture later. I switch to Vassalage. The time for :hammer: is almost here! Astronomy goes from 10 to 12 thanks to the change.

1360 (6):
Big Red One: Market > Knight

Big Red One also celebrates a WLTKD.

1370 (7):
Capital: Knight > Knight
Orleans: Catapult > Catapult

1380 (8):

Paris expands, and is putting cultural pressure on the Incan city of Huamanga. Also Saladin’s GA has ended.

IBT: Isabella asks us to cancel deals with Inca. I refuse, it doesn’t matter if we make her angry, since she’ll be gone soon.

1390 (9):
Teotihuacan: Grocer > Knight
Tlatelolco: Hindu Monastery > Harbour
Paris: Knight > Knight
Texcoco: Grocer > Musketman
Tlaxcala: Forge > Library

1400 (10):
Capital: Knight > Musketman

A Great Prophet, Chuang-Tzu, is born in the capital! We can use him to build the Shrine later in Madrid. Also I turn up research to 80% and GPT drops to –18, but we have enough money to run the deficit for a few turns.

For the next leader:

We should continue the build-up (obviously). I’m not too sure on a possible tech trade, so I’ll leave it up to you. Washington and Saladin both have Guilds, so it’s only a matter of time before they trade it to Mali. We can get Music and Theology from him for Guilds, but not Music and Philosophy (there isn’t much point IMHO getting either on its own since we have no need for them). Theology is a bad idea, as it would force us to declare on Isabella straight away.

Got it, will play it later today.


Edit:
Ok, I lied. I'll play it tomorrow during the day. If anyone has any input besides "continue the build up" please let me know. :)

1400AD(0)-The initial build up looks good for the most part. One thing we need to keep in mind is we still have an army of jaguars. Probably would be a good idea to turn off tech for a couple turns to upgrade them to be useful in this war. After Astronomy comes in, however. The cities all look good. Another thing to look out for--our cities don't have much defense. As soon as our initial army sets out, we should probably get a musketman in each border city. Especially since the Incans are annoyed with us as well.

1410AD(1)-
Rheims: Granary->Barracks

1420AD(2)-
Orleans celebrates WLTKD

1430AD(3)-
Tenochtitlan: Musketman->Musketman
Teotihuacan:Knight->Musketman
Orleans: Catapult->Catapult
Paris: Knight->Knight
Orleans celebrates WLTKD

1440AD(4)-
Big Red One: Knight->Musketman
Texcoco:Musketman->Catapult
Cowes:Forge->Barracks

1450AD(5)-
Research completes on Astronomy, start on engineering. Turn down tech rate to build gold for a few turns.
Rheims: Barracks->Catapult

1460AD(6)-
Tenochtitlan: Musketman->Galleon
Teotihuacan: Musketman->Musketman
Tlatelolco: Harbor->Galleon

IBT-Saladin wants us to stop trading with the Malinese. Nice try.

1470(7)-
Texcoco: Catapult->Galleon
Cowes: Barracks->Galleon

1480(8)-
Paris: Knight->Knight
Tlaxcala: Library->Courthouse

1490(9)-
Tenochtitlan: Galleon->Galleon
Orleans: Catalpult->Musketman

1500(10)-
Big Red One: Musketman->Musketman
Teotihuacan: Musketman->Musketman
Rheims: Catapult->Catapult
Tech rate turned back up to 70%

Most troop movement is left up to the next leader.

Thoughts: As soon as we get a couple more Galleons, get Theology, convert to Theocracy, and have at it. The longer we wait, the more outdated our army becomes. You have a little over 600 gold to spend on unit upgrades, use as you see fit (except the healing chariot--keep him as the last target on the stack).

A few pictures for the lurkers

Our growing SOD on the edge of our peninsula.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02SOD.JPG

The gap between us and Spain. Its only a 5 turn round trip for our galleons to make, coast to coast.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02GAP.JPG

Sorry for not much excitement, the next couple leaders get that :D

AndrewN, are you around? We're going to be heading for a skip here.

:bump:

Hellooooo, anybody there? Maybe a skip is the best idea.

Yeah, can you grab this Botl? AndrewN hasn't posted anywhere in a while...

Got it. Will have it up by tomorrow.

----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 210 (1500 AD)
User comment: Fortify stray muskets. We need border defense in case they strike by land.
User comment: Put army on Tlaxcala point to sleep

Turn 211 (1505 AD)
User comment: set caravel to explore
Tenochtitlan finishes: Galleon
Texcoco finishes: Galleon
Paris grows: 10
Paris finishes: Knight

Turn 212 (1510 AD)
Tenochtitlan begins: Galleon
Texcoco begins: Galleon
Paris begins: Galleon
Teotihuacan finishes: Musketman
Orleans grows: 9

Turn 213 (1515 AD)
Teotihuacan begins: Musketman
User comment: Capac demands break deals with Mansa. No.
User comment: Upgrade units; Jags to Maces, Chariot to Knight
Tech learned: Engineering
Tenochtitlan finishes: Galleon
Teotihuacan grows: 10
Teotihuacan finishes: Musketman
Tlatelolco finishes: Galleon

Turn 214 (1520 AD)
Research begun: Chemistry
Tenochtitlan begins: Galleon
Teotihuacan begins: Musketman
Tlatelolco begins: Galleon
Texcoco grows: 13
Rheims finishes: Catapult
Cowes finishes: Galleon

Turn 215 (1525 AD)
Rheims begins: Hindu Monastery
Cowes begins: Galleon
Tenochtitlan grows: 19
Big Red One finishes: Musketman
Paris finishes: Galleon

Turn 216 (1530 AD)
Big Red One begins: Grocer
Paris begins: Galleon
Tenochtitlan finishes: Galleon
Teotihuacan finishes: Musketman
Texcoco finishes: Galleon
Cowes grows: 9
Orleans finishes: Musketman

Turn 217 (1535 AD)
Tenochtitlan begins: Hindu Temple
Teotihuacan begins: Colosseum
Texcoco begins: Galleon
Orleans begins: Market
User comment: Washington demands we cancel deals with Incan. I cave.
User comment: Tenochtitlan is unhappy from loss of Capac's furs, so I have it build a Temple
Paris begins: Grocer
Cowes begins: Market
Texcoco begins: Observatory
User comment: switch off galleon builds. we have enough transports for our army
Tlatelolco begins: Grocer
Tlatelolco grows: 15

Turn 218 (1540 AD)
User comment: Send fleet to outside Spanish borders
Tenochtitlan finishes: Hindu Temple

Turn 219 (1545 AD)
Tenochtitlan begins: Observatory
Tlaxcala finishes: Courthouse

Turn 220 (1550 AD)
Tlaxcala begins: Granary
User comment: Leaving the rest of the turn up to you. Fleet is poised and ready to move. Trade for Theology and anything else you want, switch us to Theocracy, and declare WAR!

I think that says everything that needs saying. We have a solitary Galleon on our cape, holding a few stragglers that have been heading in. Infrastructure is now building to offset our economic blechness (seriously. I believe I inherited a surplus. We are now running -21 gpt). When Chemistry comes in, we will have Frigates to prevent Spain from landing any troops. We need no more Galleons. Once our infrastructure is finished, let's get our second wave on.
:hammer::hammer::hammer:
ONWARD HO!

Got it, will be bashing in Spanish heads by this evening.

The war begins!

1550 AD (Turn 0):

Fiddle around with some tiles. Call up Mansa and get Theology, Banking and 10 gold for Astronomy. Immediately switch to Theocracy and declare war! Amusingly I notice that we have a +8 modifier for religion with Isabella, it’s a pity we have to kill her. The Galleons move in and unload the army on the forest next to Toledo. I also give all the Galleons Flanking 1 so if they somehow get promoted they can get given navigation for a speed boost. Next turn: Toledo.

1555 (1):
Rheims: Hindu Monastery > Observatory

Isabella switches to Vassalage and Theocracy, in a vain attempt to stop us.

The Battle of Toledo: I bomb the city down to 0% (Note that our 4 Accuracy Catapults can take a city to 0% in 1 turn, so don’t waste them), then send in two suicide Catapults. One actually survives. Next up are the Macemen. They take the city with no casualties:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_p7.JPG

I move two Muskets and four Knights in to defend, then fortify the rest in the woods.

IBT: Our Caravel fends off a Spanish Caravel

1560 (2):
Chemistry > Paper
Teotihuacan: Collosseum > Catapult (Hmmm MS Word doesn’t recognise Collosseum for some reason)

Mansa completes the Spiral Minaret. Too bad, that would have been good to have. Move our army outside of Seville. Also, Izzy has settled a city near Texcoco:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_p8.JPG

1565 (3):

Mansa offers Philosophy and 10 gold for Chemistry. Obviously I decline.
The Battle of Seville: Catapults reduce it to 0% and the Knights move in. Once again no casualties, and Seville is ours! Next stop Madrid!

1570 (4):
Capital: Observatory > Frigate
Teotihuacan: Catapult > Catapult
Texcoco: Observatory > Hindu Temple

Looking again, the capital has so much unhappiness it’s starving! I switch it to a Collosseum instead. Paris auto switches to Galleon, which we don’t need so I put it onto an Observatory. Our Caravel destroys one of Izzy’s Galleys before it can pillage a Fishing Boat. The army begins moving towards Madrid.

1575 (5):
Paper > Printing Press (to help our economy)

I ask Mansa for his World Map and he gives it. For free! Meanwhile the army is still marching. One of Izzy’s Caravels is approaching. Its empty so that means its on a pillaging mission.

IBT: Washington wants a straight up World Map deal. I accept. It reveals the rest of Inca’s territory that we couldn’t see.

1580 (6):
Big Red One: Grocer > Observatory
Teotihuacan: Catapult > Catapult
Texcoco: Hindu Temple > Knight

I pillage the Spanish horse supply. Meanwhile the army arrives outside Madrid. I should be able to take it next turn, but if I don’t I can bring up reinforcements from Seville.

IBT: A War Elephant appears out of nowhere and kills my pillaging Knight. Izzy must have got Ivory off Washington, since I can’t see any in her territory.

1585 (7):
Toledo: Resistance > Lighthouse

Madrid’s defences go splat! First up are the Knights. I lose three including a healthy one versus an injured Longbow! :mad: The Macemen take one casualty. Madrid still has two Longbows and a Spear defending, but they are all injured. I move down some of the Knights from Seville to assist.

IBT: Izzy moves a Catapult towards Seville.

1590 (8):
Capital: Collosseum > Knight
Tlaxcala: Granary > Harbour
Teotihuacan: Catapult > Catapult

Washington gets a Great Prophet. IBT it seems Izzy rushed a Musketman in Madrid. :mad:As much as I don’t want to, I send in the Accuracy Catapults to collateral damage the defenders. A Catapult actually kills the Musketman! :D Another Catapult is killed though. The two surviving Macemen get a kill each, and finally one Knight kills the last Spearman to take Madrid. And the Shrine is intact! [party]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_p9.JPG

1595 (9):

The troops are sent to regroup at Seville. The first reinforcements are now en route. I set the Caravel back to explore.

1600 (10):
Teotihuacan: Catapult > Catapult
Seville: Resistance > Courthouse
Paris: Observatory > Knight
Cowes: Market > Observatory

Lose one Knight attacking a War Elephant, and then finish it with another.

For the next leader:

We need to regroup and heal following the losses and injuries at Madrid. We also may need to reassess some of our plans as Washington now has Cavalry. There is a Worker in Madrid who will need to do something eventually. Most of the army is in Seville atm.

Also, if my turn comes up again on Sunday, Monday or Tuesday, then please skip me as I will be in Oxford for a university interview and my parents refuse to let me take my laptop.

Here is the save

edit- for some reason I can't attach anything, :
so here is a link (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_AD-1600.Civ4SavedGame)

I'll post this as a got it.

I'd like feedback on 2 things. Since we have our holy city, should we get peace from Isabella?

Secondly, our varient rules say this:
"If a heathen religion should spread to us before we become a Theocracy, we will mark down on our "To Kill List" whoever spread us that religion."

Does that mean we have to wipe them out? Or does that mean we just have to wipe out the holy city? we approaching the later stages of the game here, so we need to fulfill our rules as soon as we can I think. Then, we'll be able to go for an overall victory. :)

I think it means we have to kill them. Our best bet is Conquest or Domination, since we'll have to continue down a military road for the time being to complete our kill list. As for Izzy, we have enough forces to finish pushing her off the continent, so we should take the opportunity for easy conquests.

The primary goal for this turnset was fairly straightforward--finish off the Spanish and secure our place as the true believers of Hinduism. My side goal sincluded setting up the economy to support our future wars, and to finish up transportation networks for the future war with the Incans.

First to fall is Cordoba, followed shortly by the small holdout city (Salamanca) on the island south of our mainland.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02COR.JPG

The next turn, Barcelona falls.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02BAR.JPG

Our catapults prepare Santiago for capture

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02SAN1.JPG

And finally, in 1645 AD, Santiago falls, wiping the Spanish civilization off of the planet.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02SAN2.JPG

The Spanish citizens that follow the one true religion were allowed to live. However, all of those who didn't..... :hammer:

While this is going on, I slow down unit production a bit to build a few banks. When the banks are finished we will be able to hold a slightly higher research rate.

There are quite a few trades that are possible, but that would mean giving up our military tech advantage.

We now have 2 different GP sitting around. We could start a GA at any time. I'll leave it up to the next leader's discretion.

Our workers filled in a lot of roads moving towards the Incan empire, and also, we have a small army forming near the border.

Based on our varient rules, we have to wipe out the Americans and the Incans, because those heathens allowed their religions to spread to us. I'd think taking the Incans first would be best. It would be easier to supply our troops initially, and then allow a war against America on 2 fronts. I'll leave the decision on when to go to war to the group as a whole.



The details:



----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 230 (1600 AD)
Tech learned: Printing Press
Texcoco finishes: Knight
Orleans finishes: Market

Turn 231 (1605 AD)
Research begun: Replaceable Parts
Texcoco begins: Bank
Orleans begins: Grenadier
Madrid begins: Hindu Temple
Tenochtitlan finishes: Knight
Teotihuacan finishes: Catapult

Turn 232 (1610 AD)
Tenochtitlan begins: Bank
Teotihuacan begins: Bank
Rheims finishes: Observatory

Turn 233 (1615 AD)
Rheims begins: Catapult
Paris finishes: Knight

Turn 234 (1620 AD)
Paris begins: Bank
Thespis (Great Artist) born in Tenochtitlan

Turn 235 (1625 AD)
Big Red One finishes: Observatory
Madrid finishes: Hindu Temple

Turn 236 (1630 AD)
Big Red One begins: Bank
Madrid begins: Bank
Tlatelolco finishes: Grocer


Turn 237 (1635 AD)
Salamanca begins: Lighthouse
Tlaxcala finishes: Harbor

Turn 238 (1640 AD)
Tlaxcala begins: Barracks
Tech learned: Replaceable Parts
Texcoco finishes: Bank
Rheims finishes: Catapult
Seville finishes: Courthouse

Turn 239 (1645 AD)
Research begun: Rifling
Texcoco begins: Colosseum
Rheims begins: Bank
Cordoba begins: Courthouse
Seville begins: Forbidden Palace

Roster:

BotlGnomz(up now)
Sybot(on deck)
afpunk(just played)
AndrewN (mia)

Indeed.
I'll see what I can do about getting our economy back on its feet and consolidating our new holdings.
Forbidden Palace in Seville is a good idea.

Mali is also on our kill list. They spread Taoism to us after founding it in Djenne.

Ugh.
My video card is on the fritz.
I've spent most of the evening trying to fix it, with no avail.
Un-got it.

I'll take it if your're not fixed by tomorrow then. Hope you get it working.

Since Botl hasn’t got it, I’ll take the turns. My objective is to build up our infra and prepare for an attack on Inca, our next target.

1650 AD (Turn 0):

I change a couple of builds. I also move some of our forces onto Galleons and back to the homeland.

1655 (1):
Barcelona: Resistance > Courthouse

I trade Printing Press to Washington for Music, Drama, World Map and some gold.

1660 (2):
Teotihuacan: Bank > Observatory
Tlaxcala: Barracks > Market

Zzzzz

1665 (3):
Capital: Bank > Knight
Paris: Bank > Catapult
Orleans: Grenadier > Observatory

Trade Astronomy for Education and some gold with Washington.

1670 (4):

Washington gets a Great Artist, and Mansa’s GA ends. Research can now be boosted to 70% so I do it.

IBT: Washington offers a trade of Sheep for Wheat, which I accept. Inca offers a similar deal, which I refuse.

1675 (5):
Texcoco: Collosseum > University
Paris: Catapult > Knight

Zzzzz

IBT: Saladin demands we cancel deals with Mansa. I refuse, since we want the Malinese as friends for the time being.

1680 (6):
Rifling > Steel (6) (For Cannons)
Capital: Knight > University
Madrid: Bank > Courthouse
Santiago: Resistance > Courthouse

Cordoba expands and is no longer starving! Hooray! I decide it is time to begin the Golden Age. Everything drops a few turns in duration and I boost science up to 80%.

1685 (7):
Cowes: Observatory > Harbour

Zzzzz

1690 (8):
Big Red One: Bank > University
Teotihuacan: Observatory > University
Paris: Knight > Rifleman

Zzzzz

1695 (9):

Bit of a scare IBT when Washington moves a Galleon full of units towards Cordoba, but luckily he declares on Saladin, meaning that Galleons is probably just passing by. I move extra units to Cordoba anyway just in case.

1700 (10):
We enter the Industrial Era!
Steel > Steam Power (3)
Orleans: Observatory > Rifleman
Seville: Forbidden Palace > Barracks

The FP has boosted out income from –5 to +41 GPT! The American Galleon ignores Cordoba like I predicted. I don't know why hes shippng units by sea since it'll be easier to march them through his own territory.

For the next leader:
The GA should be used to build the high-priced buildings like Universities. Once its finished military should be the top priority. It will be interesting to watch Saladin vs Washington, but I have a feeling Washington will annihilate the Arabs, since he has Cavalry and they don’t. We don’t want Washington to get too powerful, since we’ll have to face him in the future. Brokering a peace between them might be a good idea.

Edit: Also both Mansa and Washington have Economics, so going for the free Great Merchant is a bit pointless.

Also, I forgot the save

I've got it. We may have to finish this as a 2 person game.

Ok, I played these turns 2 days ago. I have no idea why I didn't post them. I will get them up tomorrow--I need to hook up my other computer. Sorry about that, a real mental lapse. :)

All we need now is for one of us to drop out for some reason. Has there ever been a 1-person SG before?:crazyeye:

Unfortunately, I lost my hand notes since I thought I already uploaded this. Luckily, I still have this autolog so you can tell what's going on.

Basically, we're moblizing for war against the Incans. Our research is mostly military oriented. The railroads will help us send troops across our pangaea. As soon as you feel comfortable declaring on the Incans, do so. Our cannons and rifleman will do a pretty good job, I think. Sorry again for how sparse this report seems. It won't be this boring again. :blush: Take your time with the turns, I won't be able to play again until Monday anyway. Also, BotlGnomZ could show up, so you may not want to grab it right away. In any case, good luck!


Turn 250 (1700 AD)
Orleans begins: University
Tenochtitlan finishes: University
Seville finishes: Barracks
Madrid finishes: Courthouse


Turn 251 (1705 AD)
Tenochtitlan begins: Ironworks
Seville begins: Granary
Madrid begins: Barracks
Paris finishes: Rifleman
Toledo finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 252 (1710 AD)
Paris begins: University
Toledo begins: Granary
Tech learned: Steam Power
Texcoco finishes: University
Madrid finishes: Barracks
Barcelona finishes: Courthouse

Turn 253 (1715 AD)
Research begun: Railroad
Texcoco begins: Rifleman
Madrid begins: Work Boat

Barcelona begins: Barracks
User comment: Mansa Musa offers Philosophy and a handful of gold for
replaceable parts. I decline. We have 2 sources of coal--one is already hooked up, the other is under a windmill at Teotihuacan, a very food poor city. I leave it as is for now.

Teotihuacan finishes: University
Rheims finishes: Bank
Cowes finishes: Harbor
Seville finishes: Granary
Madrid finishes: Work Boat
Cordoba finishes: Lighthouse
Golden Age ends

Turn 254 (1720 AD)
Teotihuacan begins: Cannon
Rheims begins: Cannon
Cowes begins: Granary
Seville begins: Rifleman
Madrid begins: Granary
Cordoba begins: Granary
User comment: Washington is the first to discover liberalism. He is, most definitely, our greatest threat.
Tlatelolco finishes: Observatory
Alhazen (Great Scientist) born in Tlatelolco

Turn 255 (1725 AD)
Tlatelolco begins: Rifleman
User comment: Great scientist is born. If an Academy is built in Tenochtitlan, that means about 25 beakers a turn (at 80% science) or we can put 2010 into scientific method. As long as this game will last more than 80 more turns, academy it is.
Tlaxcala finishes: Market
Madrid finishes: Granary
Barcelona finishes: Barracks

Turn 256 (1730 AD)
Madrid begins: Grocer
Barcelona begins: Rifleman
Tlaxcala begins: Observatory
Tenochtitlan finishes: Academy
Big Red One finishes: University
Teotihuacan finishes: Cannon

Turn 257 (1735 AD)
Big Red One begins: Rifleman
Teotihuacan begins: Rifleman
Tech learned: Railroad
Texcoco finishes: Rifleman
Santiago finishes: Courthouse

Turn 258 (1740 AD)
Research begun: Nationalism
Texcoco begins: Drydock
Santiago begins: Barracks
Orleans finishes: University
Paris finishes: University
Salamanca finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 259 (1745 AD)
Orleans begins: Machine Gun
Salamanca begins: Theatre
Paris begins: Machine Gun
Teotihuacan finishes: Rifleman
Seville finishes: Rifleman

Turn 260 (1750 AD)
Teotihuacan begins: Rifleman
Seville begins: Machine Gun

PS:
I forgot to rename the civ to BGZ02 after loading it. While the turns might be fine, everything besides the playing was :smoke: for me this round.

I'll take it on Saturday if BG doesn't show up and should have it done by that evening.

Its :hammer: time!

1750 AD (Turn 0):

I set the Workers to continue building Railroads then end the turn.

1755 (1):
Nationalism > Military Tradition (4)
Cowes: Granary > Hindu Monastery

War Time! I declare and move most of our units from Orleans in two stacks (Knights/Cats and Rifles/Grens/Cannons) towards Tiwanaku and our small Paris force to Huamanga.

IBT: D’oh! I missed one of our Workers on the border who is then captured. Saladin cancels our Spices for Dye deal.

1760 (2):
Texcoco: Drydock > Rifleman
Santiago: Barracks > Rifleman

A Crossbow and Catapult are attempting to advance on Orleans but are wiped out before the get a chance to get any further. Meanwhile it is painfully obvious that our Huamanga force is insufficient. The others continue to advance on Tiwanaku.

IBT: Washington offers Economics and some gold for Chemistry. I decline. More enemies advance on Orleans. One of our stacks is hit by Catapults and suffers minor collateral damage.

1765 (3):
Teotihuacan: Rifleman > Rifleman
Paris: Machine Gun >Rifleman
Madrid: Grocer > Library

Battle of Tiwanaku:
Cats bombard it to 0%, two suicide Cats are sent in (one withdraws, the other dies). The Knights move in, and Tiwanaku is ours! I keep the city.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_p10.JPG

The rest of the stack concentrates on mopping up nearby Incan units while the other stack advances on Cuzco.

IBT: A Chariot and Maceman pillage a farm and lumbermill near Orleans

1770 (4):

We now have 20 million inhabitants! In other news the Americans capture Damascus. The stack continues to advance on Cuzco.

IBT: A couple of Knights are attacked and killed.

1775 (5):
Military Tradition > Economics (1)
Big Red One: Rifleman > Cavalry
Teotihuacan: Rifleman > Cavalry

Hohum…The advance continues. The attack can begin next turn.

IBT: One of our Rifles is killed, another kills a Knight.

1780 (6):
Economics > Constitution (3)
Rheims: Cannon > Cannon
Orleans: Machine Gun > Rifleman
Paris: Rifleman > Cavalry
Madrid: Library > Observatory

I switch to Free Market and our income gets a small boost. At Huamanga, the city is finally taken.

At Cuzco, I knock the defences down to 0%. All the Rifles and Grens get a kill, but there are still a lot of defenders left.

IBT: Saladin offers Divine Right for Philosophy + gold. I refuse. Our stack is attacked yet again and suffers the loss of a Gren.

1785 (7):
Toledo: Granary > Forge
Seville: Machine Gun > Machine Gun

Iron pops up out of nowhere at Texcoco. Tlatelolco is starving and yet has both an engineer and scientist specialist. Stupid AI! I switch them to work to stop starvation. In fact War Anger is setting in across most of the empire, though thankfully not in the main military producers yet. I also get Mansa to trade his Ivory for Clams and Fish.

The Assault on Cuzco:
The Charge of the Cannon Brigade is a resounding success. All three get a kill each and cause collateral damage on the survivors. Thanks to this, a Catapults follows it up and finishes another. Knights and Grens finish the job, and Cuzco is ours!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02_p11.JPG

1790 (8):
Teotihuacan: Cavalry > Cavalry
Texcoco: Rifleman > Rifleman
Cowes: Hindu Monastery > University

Not much. I concentrate on regrouping and setting up for the next attacks.

IBT:

1795 (9):
Constitution > Corporation (2)
Paris: Cavalry > Cavalry
Barcelona: Rifleman > Library
Tiwanaku: Resistance > Barracks
Huamanga: Resistance > Theatre

The army in Tiwanaku moves out towards Machu Picchu.

1800 (10):
Tlatelolco: Rifleman > Hindu Temple
Tlaxcala: Observatory > Rifleman

Nothing to report…

For Next Leader:
After Corporation we should get Assembly Line, then work towards Industrialization. I haven’t seen any sort of counterattack from Inca ever since I took Cuzco, so I think he’s pretty much beaten. The army is divided between the stack marching on Machu Picchu, and the rest currently in Cuzco. I’ll leave it up to you to decide whether they attack Ollantaytambo or a city that we can’t see but I know is there in the north.

Here is the save:

1800AD

Not much happening here besides some troop advancement. After some of the current builds finish, I'm going to start a couple workers. We need some to fill in railroads and for combat engineers.

1802AD

Teotihuacan: Cavalry->Worker

1804AD

Orleans: Rifleman->Worker
Paris: Cavalry->Cavalry
Madrid: Observatory->University
Santiago: Rifleman->Granary
Tiwanku: Barracks->Granary

Machu Pichu is defended by a paltry 2 longbowman. After our catapults and a cannon reduce the defenses to 3%, a knight and cannon easily run over the defenders, and the city is ours.

1806AD
Big Red One: Cavalry->Cavalry
Texcoco: Rifleman->Worker
Seville: Machine Gun->Cavalry

Vilcas, the previously hidden city up north, has a light defense of a grenadier and a longbowman. With defense bombarded to 28%, I send in 2 rifleman. Unfortunately, the first one is defeated with a 75% chance of winning. The second one kills the longbowman though, and poised to take the city next turn with a cavalry knocking on the door as well.

1808AD

Teotihuacan:Worker->Worker

Ollantaytombo is bombarded down to 0% defense. Its 4 defenders are quickly vanquished by 3 of our cavalry and a grenadier, and the city is taken. The Incans are defeated, its just a matter of how long it takes for us to finish the cities off.

Speaking of which, the last damaged grenadier in Vilcas puts up a hell of a fight, knocking off our cavalry, before our injured rifleman takes him down. The city is ours.

1810AD

Orleans: Worker->Rifleman
Cuzco:End of Resistance->Theatre

1812AD

Teotihuacan: Worker->Rifleman
Texcoco: Worker->Oxford University
Rheims: Cannon->Cannon
Paris: Cavalry->Cavalry
Tiwanku: Granary->Theatre

1814AD

Barcelona: Library->Theatre

Macchu Pichu is in danger of flipping to the Malinese. There isn't much we can do about it at this point...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02machupichu.JPG

Corihuarachina is defended by a grenadier, longbowman, and catapult, and falls easily to our troops. Walata is the new capital...could it be their last city? Looks that way.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ02lastincan.JPG

1816AD

Santiago: Granary->Theatre

Walata is reduced to a single catapult defender...victory is at hand!

1818AD

Assembly Line comes in. I work on getting to communism next. State Property is almost essential for this huge empire we are creating. (Scientific Method->Liberalism->Communism)

Seville: Cavalry->Cannon
Tiwanku: Theatre->Factory
Vilcas: Out of Resistance->Theatre

Walata's last defender is destroyed, along with the Incan civilization. War weariness will drop out completely next turn, and most happiness problems will be solved. Unfortunately, though, our citizens are starting to demand emancipation.

1820AD

Teotihuacan: Infantry->Factory
Madrid: University->Factory
Cuzco: Theatre->Factory


We're doing very well at this point. We still have to wipe out America and Mali based on our rules, and we should start our next war very soon. I'm unsure of who to target first. Mali has 6 cities with a lot of wonders and culture, and is pressing our Incan borders hard. However, Mansa Musa is friendly with us, and it might be nice to have someone to trade with in the near term. America most likely has the largest and most powerful military. We can see inside 3 of their cities that have hinduism, and they are pretty well defended. Its worth being noted that a 2 front war with America would be quite doable, as our Spanish cities are doing well. I'll leave the decision of which to attack up to you. Like I mentioned previously, I think heading for communism and state property is a must at this point. Also, it may be a good idea to build the pentagon in Tenochtitlan once the ironworks is done.
Good luck!

The Demographics....looking quite good :).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ021820d.JPG

The Save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/BGZ-02_AD-1820.Civ4SavedGame)

Got it, but it might take a few days since I'm currently trying to get GOTM1 done in time for the deadline.

1820 AD (Turn 0):

My plan is this: Djenne can be reached by Cavalry on the same turn as a declaration of war, so I move all Cavs/Knights to Tlatelolco to prepare. At the same time an attack by Infantry, supported by Cannons, will advance on Kumbi Saleh. My reasons for attacking Mali? They are putting too much pressure on our cities, and they are easier to get troops to than America. Meanwhil