This thread has been split from this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141403) thread.

SG-1
I agree with Velja or who wrote it, fall of Yugoslavia and modern history is better to avoid...
BTW, how is it woth Slovenians? All Slovenians say they understand Croat/Serbian (practically it`s the same language) without any problems but many Croats told me not undrestand Slovenian. I can`t imagine a Slovak not understanding Czech or a Czech not understanding our language... And difference between czech and SLovak is bigger than Slovenian and Serb-Croat.
Jezdim svako ljeto u Hrvatsku i imam neke srpske korene... I kada Hrvati, Srbi i Makedonci imaje ku sebe bliže stalno relacije medju jugoslavcima već nikada neće biti kao za primer medju nama i čehma i kada srbi, hrvati, "bosanci" (ako oupće mogu govoriti da bosanci se nacija), crnogorci (to samo) i makedonci se jedan rod južnih slavena, jedna krv. Baš prve srpsko kraljovstvo je danasna Dalmacija i prvo Hrvatsko u danasne Vojvidine. Tako ko je danas četnik i ko je ustaša..?

Samo nadam da brzo ću imati dosti para za jači kompjuter jer sa Athlon 2600+ sa 512 MB RAM CIV4 nije možno da igrati... :-(((((((

Valje: Obožujem da se ti hoćelo tako dugo trošiti vremje sa ovim MODom.
Nećes prozivoditi i neki Slovački CIV4 MOD kada si već tako iskusan? :-)

SG-1
I agree with Velja or who wrote it, fall of Yugoslavia and modern history is better to avoid...
BTW, how is it woth Slovenians? All Slovenians say they understand Croat/Serbian (practically it`s the same language) without any problems but many Croats told me not undrestand Slovenian. I can`t imagine a Slovak not understanding Czech or a Czech not understanding our language... And difference between czech and SLovak is bigger than Slovenian and Serb-Croat.
Jezdim svako ljeto u Hrvatsku i imam neke srpske korene... I kada Hrvati, Srbi i Makedonci imaje ku sebe bliže stalno relacije medju jugoslavcima već nikada neće biti kao za primer medju nama i čehma i kada srbi, hrvati, "bosanci" (ako oupće mogu govoriti da bosanci se nacija), crnogorci (to samo) i makedonci se jedan rod južnih slavena, jedna krv. Baš prve srpsko kraljovstvo je danasna Dalmacija i prvo Hrvatsko u danasne Vojvidine. Tako ko je danas četnik i ko je ustaša..?

Samo nadam da brzo ću imati dosti para za jači kompjuter jer sa Athlon 2600+ sa 512 MB RAM CIV4 nije možno da igrati... :-(((((((


Valje: Obožujem da se ti hoćelo tako dugo trošiti vremje sa ovim MODom.
Nećes prozivoditi i neki Slovački CIV4 MOD kada si već tako iskusan? :-)


Hey Psycho! Krafni, Štrudeli, Varene kukorice! Glad you like to spend holidays in Croatia.

We can understand Slovenian... as good as Czech or Macedonian. Slovakian is a bit more difficult. The differences are not just in the vocabulary but in pronounciation and tempo, so its a bit more difficult to follow, esp. for Croats living further away from Slovenia, like Slavonia, Bosnia-Hercegovina or Dalmatia.

As for history, you would need to get some of your facts straightened out. First Croat Kingdom would be the mythical White Croatia around Krakow, Poland, later ones, in 7.ct would be Coastal Croatia(nowadays Dalmatia, Lika and southwestern Bosnia), Pannonian Croatia(nowadays northern Croatia and northern Bosnia), and the principalities of Red Croatia. Serbian state was established later in Rascia(Southwestern Serbia) and at times did spread as far west as Neretva river, except the coastal cities that remained Byzantine protectorate, but in those days Serbia was centered on Rascia and Kosovo and at the height of its power expanded deep into Greece.

Our differences are not that much lingual, but cultural and religious. Balkans are where the West, East and Orient meet. There's bound to be fireworks. Bosniaks, Montenegrins and Macedonians are separate nations each with its own cultural and ethnic identity.

About your computer. I have Athlon 1800+, 1024MB RAM and it works perfect. Try adjusting your virtual ram, and if you can afford it, buy another 512MB RAM module, it should work wonders. Not just for Civ4, but for most games out there, esp, with WinXP.

I already started some work on the Hungarian civ, but I might give Slovaks a go, too.

What about leaders?

Svatopluk as medieval ruler

And for modern... Jan Golian? Vladimir Mečiar? Or Ivan Gašparovič(who just happens to be Croat :king:)?

Any suggestions for a unique unit?

And finally, Slovenia. Janez Janša is better than Milan Kučan. And Kekec unit is better.

And Slovenia and Slovakia could use the same FlagDecal :p

Anima:
I think Raška and Zeta kinkgdoms are both dated in 7th century. I am not sure but I think Zeta kingdom (today Dolnja Dalmacija) was the first and later spread to innerland to Kosovo and Metohija teritory and in 10th century added Macedonia and reached border maximum in 12-13th century before Otomans become too strong, defeated Constantinopol and finally won the battle at Kosovo Polje in 13th century.
Maybe there was some Croat kingdom in Poland like you wrote, but I would say Slavonian kingdom is the first official state of southern Slavs who later formed to modern Croats.

As far as differencies. Language is the same, origin is the same. Your culture and mentality is the same. What`s the difference between Croats and Serbs? You all are very temperament and able in a second turn from the best friend into the worst foe and stab somebody with a knife if if he says are makes something what you consider to be abusing you...
Religion difference? It`s just the matter of being in different sheep-fold in the past. You willingly joined Hungarian kingdom and accepted catholicism while serbs remained out of Hungarion territory and kept the original religion brought by Konstantin and Metod priests from Solun (Thessalonike in Greece) who were wiped out from Great Moravia (Slovakia) after making agreements with Franks and adopting catholicism which was the first step to fall of national independence and become slaves of Hungarians for almost 1000 years. I consider religion for a political tool, not for a national habbit. After all, who now trusts the God and goes to church? It`s only you and serbs and some people in Slovakian villages are still religious fanatics, but the rest doesn`t care.
Bosnians are nation? Without J.B.Tito "Bosanci" would never exist... I still don`t undersatnd how someone religious preference can promote to national character. That`s incredible. Especially if Tito was communist fighting against all churches. That guy really massed up YU...
Montenegrians are Serbs, the only difference is they have never been conquered by Turks or any other foreign power becouse of tough terrain. Small armies very easily destroyed and bigger ones starved and had to return home. That`s the only difference to Serbian Serbs from my view. However it`s ridiculous when Montenegrians want to loose independence and surrender without fight even if never in their history were conquered by foreign force...
Dobro, dosti bio istorije...

How can I "adjust virtual ram"?
It seems buyng another 1GB RAM is a must... Wow, another 120$ thrown away... :-(
BTW I am playing CIV4 on huge map with 15 civs. I am sure on Tiny map with 4 civs my HW would be enough, but playing it this way is no fun.

That would be great if making a mod with SLovaks! As far as Slovak leaders. Svatopluk is definitly the greatest Great Moravian leader but he was from Morava (modern Czech Republic) and defeated Pribina, earl from Nitra (city in Slovakia) kingdom to unify slavic tribes. Maybe "Pribina" would be better name than Svätopluk who is isnt so purely connected with Slovak teritory like Pribina.

Uff, modern leaders?

I think you definitelly should consider the name of father of Slovak national identity forming during romantism in mid 19th century - Ludovit Stur. He is for slovaks the same what Jelacic for Croats. He led the slovak uprising against Hungarians in 1848. Died on the impacts of injury (officially he had shot himself) during hunting in 1857 (i think so or a year like that). Hungarian influence on his death suspected.

20th century significant politicians?
Even if not being very politicaly active in this century, there are still few names:
1) Milan Rastislav Stefanik - Leading member of foreign Czechoslovak legion fighting together with Frenchs against Axis in WW1. He together with Czech Tomas Garyk Masaryk (first Czechoslovak president 1918-1938) formed first Czechoslovak republic in 1918 and suddenly died in airplane crash (most likely Czechs were behind this) near Bratislava in 1919. His airplane was hit by "invitation salve" while landing...
2) Andrej Hlinka - Catholic priest fighting for Slovak authonomy under Czechoslovakia during the first Republic (1918-1939). You can see him on Slovak 1000 SKK bank notes. Died in 1937 normal way. No uncertain circumstances suspected.
3) Jozef Tiso - president of first independent Slovak state (kao Nezavisna Drzava Hrvatska) during WW2. Opinions on him differ. For some people he was the one fighting for Slovak interests who managed to get the best from the very difficult political climate of those times who managed to keep Slovakia independent of direct German control (in spite of Czechs and Moravians for example) and refused to take part on Nazi ethnic cleansing of Jews as much as possible, but for the others he was nothing just a Nazi traitor.
Hanged on gallows in 1945.
4) Alexander Dubcek - Political leader of "Prague spring" in 1968 which ended by army intervention of Soviet army and their Warsava pact allies.
Died under uncertain circumstances in car accident in 1992 on the highway from Bratislava to Prague. Political interests on his vanishing from Slovak political scene before "constructing" (People were and still are against it) independent Slovakia in 1993 suspected. Certainly somebody thought having too strong political person beloved by many people was too big setback for their plans with this country.
5) Vladimir Meciar - Political puppet taken from somewhere especially known like a person who became a "father" of Slovak independence. After finishing his role, he was pulled down from the stage in 1998. He`s still alive and leading the 2nd strongest political party.

I don`t know how many political leaders you need. But I think Pribina (eventualy Svatopluk), Stur and Stefanik should be there. They are the most significant ones.

BTW, who is Jan Golian? Hehe, I didn`t know somebody made Gasparovic being a Croat... I know stupid people from the west (eg. Bush) can never remember the difference between Slovakia and Slovenia but i hear about mistaking Slovak with Croat for the first time... :-o
When I was in USA, nobody knew about Slovakia. Even if sombody who served his military service in Bosnia managed to react positively, he always just did wrong with Slovenia. I think if an American asks Slovaks if know eg. Tennessee, Conecticut, Vermont surely at least one of 10 people would know where aproximately this state could be...

Unique unit? We never had own army and don`t have specific Slovak named military type. I think the best known "Slovak" military unit are Otoman`s "Janiciari" `couse they consisted of many our boys like of other Slavic nations as well.
Or "Husari" special cavalry, but this is more typical Hunagrian, than Slovak military unit... We are pacifists. Mi tucemo samo picke ciganske, siptara ili majmuna koji dolaze iz prasume... :-)
I think what`s typical for Slovakia and especially for it`s mediaval age is being the Europe no. leader in mining and foresting. The first mining university has been built in Slovakia, Slovaks were the first who developed forestry system of dividing forest to 70 parts regulraly cutted and planted used now everywhere.
I think best Slovak special unit should be "Slovak worker" building mines, cutting and planting forests twice faster. Definitelly not building roads or railroads, this action should take 2-3 times longer. Just compare the speed of building Croat and Slovak highways! If working at our rate Split is highway connected with Zagreb MAYBE in the year 3000!

BTW, if speaking about roads and railroads. Hungary has the highest railroad density in the world and practicaly 99% of Slovak railroad network has been built under Hungarian monarchy. I suggest Hungarian workers build railroads two times faster.

Anima:
I think Raška and Zeta...<snip>

lets not go too far offtopic, check out these links:
History of Montenegro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Montenegro)
History of Croatia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Croatia)
Medieval Croatian State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Croatian_state)

Bosnians are nation?<snip>

Bosnian('Bosanac') is a regional adjective. A person from Bosnia regardless of ethnicity. Bosniak('Bošnjak') is an ethnic adjective. It is an archaic form that had replaced the 'Muslim' ethnicity. As for the origin of 'Muslim' ethnicity, that is another story. Two million 'Muslims' were less dangerous than two million Sunni Croats after WWII.

Montenegrin are not Serbs. This is something you should keep in mind if you ever take a holiday on the Montenegrin riviera. Esp. post March 2006.

How can I "adjust virtual ram"?
It seems buyng another 1GB RAM is a must... Wow, another 120$ thrown away... :-(
BTW I am playing CIV4 on huge map with 15 civs. I am sure on Tiny map with 4 civs my HW would be enough, but playing it this way is no fun.

Click Start, then Control Panel, then System, then Advanced, the under Performance click Settings, then click Advanced, then under Virtual Memory click change. Try setting your virtual RAM settings to 4096-4096 MB and see if you get a performance boost. If you have a free socket buy another 512MB module. 512MB DDR400 should be aroun 50€.

As far as Slovak leaders....<snip>

Wikipedia on Slovakia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovakia)
Wikipedia on Slovakian History (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Slovakia)

It says that some historians called Great Moravia Great Slovak Empire, thats how I dug up Svatopluk. Do you have any artwork regarding Pribina. Any pictures that might be found online? IE. paintings, theatre curtains...

Any artwork on Ludovit Stur? That wikipedia article is not done yet.

Jan Golian organized the Slovak National Uprising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_National_Uprising) in 1944.

Stefanik, Hlinka and Dubček are just not big enough. Tiso is out of the question since he was a Nazi(Same reason why I'm giving up on Admiral Horthy for Hungary). Mečiar... a corrupt populist whose time had passed. Gašparovič or Dzurinda would be a better pick than him.

Hehe, I didn`t know somebody made Gasparovic being a Croat...

Yes, your president is a Croat.

...difference between Slovakia and Slovenia...

One of the greater Slovenian national traumas is that at every sport event people confuse them with Slovakia or worse, Russia, due to flag similarity. Two years ago or so they had a referendum about changing the flag, and there was even talk about changing the name of the country... this lead to far too many jokes at Slovenian expense...

Unique unit?<snip>

Jannisaries were not specific to Slovakia only, plus they never fought for
Slovakia, they fought for Ottoman Empire. They could only be a unique unit for the Turks and Bosniaks.

As for the forest planter unique unit. Its very interesting, but I'm not sure how well would this unique ability sit with gameplay balance. How bout those two guys from 'A je to'?

As far as very soon history of South Slavic tribes. My source of info is no web site but "Europe in the changes of centuries" wrote by Czech historians where lphabetically ordered all all European nations and ethnics. Of course mediaval borders on Balkan varied due to the results of various battles between Otomans, Hungarians, Serbs and Bulgarians, but I am speaking about very very soon first Slavs who came from Asia and settled down here in 6th century and assimilated former Celtic population. Just like the first Slavic state on the teritory of modern Slovaks was "Samo`s Empire" (I think in 7th or 8th century) the first Serbs formed Zeta and Raska and there is no doubt Zeta leid on present Croat teritory, while Slavonian kingdom is today mostly on the teritory of Serbs.

BTW, Great Moravia is not only the staet of slovaks but also moravians. I am not sure if people outside Czechoslovakia know there were not only these two nation in former CS. Present Czech Republic is not inhabitated purely by Czechs, but also Moravians. Morava is about 40% of the territory of Czech Rep. Main Moravian cities are Brno and Ostrava (the 2nd and 3rd biggest in the Czech Republic). Their language is different to Czech or Slovak. It`s not only my opinion it`s closer to SLovak than to Czech. But historicaly Moravians were always together with Czechs, also during Austrian-Hungarian monarchy were considered for one "Bohemia". Now most of Moravians don`t even consider theirselves for Moravians, but for Czechs. All Moravians say, they are different, but can`t stay alone without Prague. The tensions between Czechs and Moravians are best visible on football matches. There is always lot of hate on the matches between Prague clubs and Banik Ostrava, Brno or Sigma Olomouc. :-)

So Svatopluk was the Moravian earl who had beaten Slovak Pribina, earl of Nitra, and joined his teritory to his own. Then he conquared other tribes and his empire reached from Baltic to Jadran, but lasted only untill his dead in 900 AD, very soon after he died his 3 sons devided the kingdom to three parts and one after another were defeated by Hungarian hordes. Whole Great Moravian empire lasted for cca. 70 years, as long as Czechoslovakia...

I know Jannisaries are not "our" unit, but Slovaks fought there...
"A je to" is Czech cartoon (or how is it called in English) not Slovak. But it`s really perfect. I have all series at home! I also have 4 parts with East slovak dialect dubbing. Even I like a west/midslovakian had problem to understand it... :-)
Slovenians have such a big sport trauma? Our flag is also very similar to Russian, but never ever noone thought about changing it. White-blue-red tricolor is symbol of SLAVS, it can be NEVER changed!

Hehe, Dzurinda and Gasparovic better choice than Meciar? Gasparovic is nobody, whe accidentaly become a president couse most of people wanted rather him tahn Meciar. As far as Dzurinda, he is Slovakian Djindjic and most of Slovaks want him to end the same way like Djindjic... I am one of them too.
Slovak uprising in 1944 was not slovak and not national. It was led by communist jost to be unsuccessfull and be defeated. Main reason for this uprising was not to libereta ourcelves like YU under Tito, but to be liberated by Soviets and become their vassal teritory after WW2... Just like there are different opinions about Jozef Tiso, the opinions differ about so called Slovak National Uprising in 1944...

from a non-slave point of view, with all the lack in history that means, Croatia, slovenia, serbia, bosnia, montenegro are all former yougoslavian states....
Croatia is a good football player manufactury (go Prso, go!!!)
Slovenia is a good car manufactury (just try to find how many car plants there is over there)
Serbia is a good sport manufactury
montenegro is nothing much for the moment
Bosnia-herzgovina is the one that everybody else want to kick

as a westerner, i seriously lack in slavian history and i don't know much about what were before tito...
So i'm really interested in your discussion

By the way, what are the differences between Czech and Slovaks?

Montenegrin are not Serbs. This is something you should keep in mind if you ever take a holiday on the Montenegrin riviera. Esp. post March 2006.
Well... :p there are still about 30% people in Montenegro declaring as Serbs. Of course, they didnt move to Montenegro from Serbia, but their parents lived in Montenegro, parents of their parent, etc. This percent was, of course, much higher before communism, when we suddenly got "Montenegrin" and "Bosniak" nation. Before Turks came region was divided by several Serbian states where ruled Altomanovics, Hrebeljanovics, Brankovics as their rulers... We had this also in France, England, and other European states, but now it's just France, England, etc.

http://www.njegos.org/siteindex/general.htm
There are several texts proving my point of view.

LAnkou: Very good footballers are everywhere in YU. Just like in all Balkan.
BTW, I think you are another example of nonslav who has mistaken Slovakia and Slovenia. :-)
I am not sure how many cars are manufactured in SLovenia, I think Yugoslavian "Yugo"s were/are manufactured in Serbia, in the city of Kragujevac (or Krusevac?). Hoever SLovakia is the country which should soon become the world no.1 country in the amount of manufactured cars per inhabitant. Unfortunatelly it can`t be said about the bought cars... :-(
We have VW and Peugeot here and KIA should also join the party in few years.

As far as differences between Czechs and Slovaks.
1) Language. We understand each other but some words are totaly different or sound the same, but have totaly different meaning. I think Polish is maybe closer to Slovak, we just don`t understand it as good as Czech becouse of not living together in one state. I think difference between Czech and Slovak is almost the same like between Slovak and Croat/Serbian. BTW, many Slovaks say they do understand better Slovenians than Croats and Serbs. I can`t deny or confirm it `couse speaking a bit Croat/Serb so I definitelly understand better Croat than Slovenian radio stations while spending my holidays there.
Also one similarity of Czechoslovakia with YU. Slovaks just like Serbs and all other nations on the world call calendar months the usual way like january, august, december, etc. Only Czechs and Croats have their own "romantic" totaly different names. Eg. January is not said "januar" like in Slovak, but "leden" in Czech (BTW, in Croat it`s ledan), `couse "led" means "ice" in Czech and usually in January it freezes a lot and is lot of ice outside.
Also eg. August is in "srpen" in Czech and "kolovoz" in Croat. Both of these "romantic" national specific names are implied from the theme of summer harvest. "Srp" means English "sickle" in Czech. "Kolovoz" in Croat means something like a carriage or wagon used to carry the grain from the fields to granaries. So again soemthing very typical for this part of the year.
Czechs also read numbers different than Slovaks. Eg. number "23" they don`t read the way "twentythree" but say "three and twenty". They also read eg. 1200 not "thousand two hundred" like Slovaks, but say "twelvehundreds".
Yeah, and as far as names for animals, plants and trees is Czech TOTALY different and strange language to Slovak. I think speaking and understanding Czech without any problems, I am listening to Czech language on the TV since childhood, but I am still unable to call many kinds of trees, vegetable, fruits or animals in Czech since they are maybe even less similar than eg. English and German.
2) Religion. Strongest religion is catholicism in Czech, but there is still relatively strong their own religion dated to 15th century to Hussite history led by priest Jan Hus who was burn to death as a misbeliever by Vatikan church. In some parts of Czech Rep. the Hussite religion is more dominating than catholic. So religiously Czechs aren`t and have never been as loyal to the Pope as Slovaks where catholic church strongly dominates. Officialy 65% catholics,10% protestants, 4% Orthodox, 1% Others (Jehova witnesses and similar stuffs) and 20% ateists. But of course not 80% are really church members as official statistics said. My parents also wrote theirselves to some church in last "counting of folks" (or how is it called) even if not being in a church for decades... However in Czech Republic there are officialy more than 50% atheists. Mostly thanks to Prague.
3) History. SLovakia was always part of Hungarian kingdom, while Czechs were under German or Austrian control. Even if SLovakia was the most advanced part of hungary it could be never compared with the most industrious and advanced part of Austrian Kingdom - modern Czech Republic. While Czechs had heavy industr, slovaks were shephards and farmers and this lasted till the 1950s and the industrialization of Slovakia under the communist programme and great help and investments from Czechs and also Russia, or better to say former Soviet Union.
So Slovaks are still considered to be inferior against Czechs, but mostly it`s in their own brains than Czechs would really think it. There were always jokes about Slovaks coming to Prague at noon and speaking fluent Czech in the evening already. While Czechs living in Slovakia whole life NEVER speak slovak. The maximum they are able to speak after many decades in SLovakia is only some kind of Czechoslovak mix. It`s also saying a lot about the mentalities...
Czechs and Slovaks HAD TO cooperate and join together if not wanted to be rolled by Germans and Hungarians after WW1. After WW1 Czech politicians were saying about "Czechoslovak" nation what was absolutely stupid. Especially if considering "Carpathian Rus" which is now part of Ukraine was part of Czechoslovakia in those times. How some carpathian (now Ukrainian) could ever been cosnidered to belong to the same nation like somebody from the Prague. These wouldn`t even understand each other... This "Czechoslovak nation" policy from the 1918-1939 period caused lot of tensions between Czechs and Slovaks remaining to present.
4) Ethnical. SLovaks are less mixed with Germans than Czechs. Our girls are very nice (eg. Adriana Sklenarikova you should know like a French and she is not the only nice woman here). On the other hand we are lazy, considerably less hardworking and precious than Czechs. Also have problems to obey the authorities (maybe except the church, for many people here what are they told by their local priests is still the only and absolute truth), Slovaks are driving considerably more similar to Balkans (it doesn`t matter if Croats, Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks...) than Czechs who are driving like Germans 50 km/h (lot of them even slower! I always get nerves while driving through CZ country and towns!) through a village. Germans are educated in so strict policy state they can`t even imagine something like crassing a road by foot on red light! Czechs aren`t as bad as Germans, but are something between Slovaks and Germans in this manner.
And another bg difference. Slovaks drink destilates, most typical national drink is "Borovicka", it`s something similar to Russian or Polish "vodka" or Serbian "Sljivovica". Originaly it`s bottled together with gentian root in the bottle to get the right taste. On countrary Czechs don`t drink destilates only beer, just like Germans or Austrians.
However I don`t drink any alcohol, so I should be no Slovak, neither Czech, but Bosnian muslim! :-)

Anima:

Here you`ll find a picture of Pribina.
http://www.obecchynorany.sk/noviny/august_03/pribina.html

from a non-slave point of view, with all the lack in history that means, Croatia, slovenia, serbia, bosnia, montenegro are all former yougoslavian states....

Non-slave?:rolleyes:

Non-slave?:rolleyes:

Do think Lankou is a slave? :crazyeye:

sorry, non-slavian

english : slavian
french : slave

english: slave
french: esclave

note that slave, slavian, esclave all come from a greek word meaning slavian who were the main greek slave at this time....
that's why alexander went to anarchy and choose emancipation, so dumb french people like me won't do any mistake like this one

Well... :p there are still about 30% people in Montenegro declaring as Serbs. Of course, they didnt move to Montenegro from Serbia, but their parents lived in Montenegro, parents of their parent, etc. This percent was, of course, much higher before communism, when we suddenly got "Montenegrin" and "Bosniak" nation. Before Turks came region was divided by several Serbian states where ruled Altomanovics, Hrebeljanovics, Brankovics as their rulers... We had this also in France, England, and other European states, but now it's just France, England, etc.

http://www.njegos.org/siteindex/general.htm
There are several texts proving my point of view.

I never claimed that there are no Serbs in Montenegro, I claimed that ethnic Montenegrins are not Serbs. The name is somewhat ambiguous. As it is both regional and ethnic. It is quite natural for a Serb ethnic minority to be present, since northern Montenegro was Rascia proper in the old days. Duklja and Zeta were in southern Montenegro. As for rulers, King Vojislav of Duklja was Catholic, so were the Balšić dynasty, late medieval rulers of Zeta. As for France and Britain, there are still Bretons, Basque, Scots and Welsh

Do think Lankou is a slave?

I think his native language is French, and he wanted to say non-slav.

Slovenia is a good car manufactury (just try to find how many car plants there is over there)

Actually, Slovakia is the car manufactory. There are no car factories in Slovenia.

Here you`ll find a picture of Pribina.
http://www.obecchynorany.sk/noviny/a...3/pribina.html

I cant see that picture. Most probably some picture server isssue.

Anima:
Something off topic just to provoke your "chess-board ass". :-)
I hope you are ready and already conciliated with Ljubicic`s Davis cup final defeat here in Bratislava? We have to take home advantage and beat you if reached the final finaly... Nobody wants to remain 2nd if being in the final... However on the other hand if defeat would harm the income of SLovak tennis association which is organizing it all and pumped the ticket price to incredible hight... I would rather wish your victory just to see those "jebenih pedara" crying!

BTW (kako se skaze "by the way" srbohrvatski?), koga navijas medju hrvatskima "nogometnima" ekipama?

BTW2: "Vukojebina" je stvaran hrvatski grad ili selo? :-o
Tamo mijesne cure jebaje sa vukama ili sta?...


As far as Pribina`s picture. Maybe I somehow corrupted the link:

http://www.obecchynorany.sk/noviny/august_03/pribina.html

Stalno nista nece raditi? Nikakva slika? Jer mene sve ide dobro... :confused:

I never claimed that there are no Serbs in Montenegro, I claimed that ethnic Montenegrins are not Serbs. The name is somewhat ambiguous. As it is both regional and ethnic. It is quite natural for a Serb ethnic minority to be present, since northern Montenegro was Rascia proper in the old days. Duklja and Zeta were in southern Montenegro. As for rulers, King Vojislav of Duklja was Catholic, so were the Balšić dynasty, late medieval rulers of Zeta. As for France and Britain, there are still Bretons, Basque, Scots and Welsh
I had this conversation so many times before(fortunately in Serbian, so it was much easier)...
After all, as my history professor in high school used to say: "There is a nation if there is a single person declaring himself as member of that nation". So, then, there are Montenegrins, Bosniaks, Cypriots, Yugosalvians.....

As for France and Britain, there are still Bretons, Basque, Scots and WelshWhat about Burgundy, Normandy, Auvergne.........???

BTW2: "Vukojebina" je stvaran hrvatski grad ili selo? :-o

Vukojebina is a mythic place from pagan slavic mythology that explains the origins of wolfkind. The only ones who know where it is are the locals and the wolves. And the only ones that find it to be very important are the wolves.


As far as Pribina`s picture. Maybe I somehow corrupted the link:

http://www.obecchynorany.sk/noviny/august_03/pribina.html

Stalno nista nece raditi? Nikakva slika? Jer mene sve ide dobro... :confused:

I can see the page, but not the picture.

edit: managed to retrieve the picture, got anything on ludovit stur?

What about Burgundy, Normandy, Auvergne.........???

These are somewhat different, there was never a major cultural difference. Back in HYW these were simply different dynasties, but ruled over the same people. Perhaps LAnkou can fill you in on the details.

...Yugosalvians...

Arent they extinct? I bet you couldn't find one from Vardar to Triglav. I hear that there might be a few Yugoswabians in Switzerland, Germany or Scandinavia, but thats as close as it gets.

Vukojebina is a mythic place from pagan slavic mythology that explains the origins of wolfkind. The only ones who know where it is are the locals and the wolves. And the only ones that find it to be very important are the wolves.:lol: :lol: :lol:

Perhaps LAnkou can fill you in on the details.

Well, the main difference between Bretons, Basques, Corsicans and the others is that the previous one generally think they are more than french...the others just think they come from a particular region in France

As a Breton and a Parisian, I'm what could be worse to integer others french region...well I could come for Corsica too
In general, Breton, Corse and Parisian are the one there is the most joke about, apart from belgian and blond of course!!! and they are the most "hated" in France


Below are the general thinking about Corsicans, Parisians and Bretons

Parisians are people thinking they are best in everything (cause they live in Paris) and other people are just farmers that just barely know what electricity is...
(when a parisian come to a farm, he is scared by the cow. "what is this monster?" "just my old marguerite" say the farmer" "i see, since you got such a big garden, you can have a bigger dog..."

Bretons are either farmers or fishermen, what you hate the most, and live in a country where it only rains twice per years (from March to September and from Octobor to February). If they want to become independant, all they do is bombing a Macdonald!!


Corsicans are independantist, proud, lazy, mafiosi guys. They take the money from continent because of subventions, and they want to separate? let's get them out!!!
(if you want to fully understand what a corsican is, read Asterix in Corsica, that's the best tourist guide)

well, that is junk ideas, but there are a lot of joke. Maybe we can open a thread about regionalist joke...

Anima:

http://ludovit-stur.biography.ms/
Here is quit a lot about Stur. It`s in English I just haven;t seen any picture of him on that web site. Most likely the only web site about him in English. However if going to google and typing "Ľudovít Štúr biografia" it gives you many links on different refferates and articles, but only in Slovak...

Here you have a PDF with his portrait.
http://www.kskls.sk/Ludovit_Stur.pdf

As far as YU and Yugoslavians. YUGOSLAVIA WAS THE HAPPIEST AND MOST PEACEFULL PERIOD OF THE HISTORY OF ALL SOUTHERN SLAVS. We all(understand "Czechoslovaks") admired your Tito`s socialism with opened borders, your life standard, everything. YU was AMERICA for us! Chick who married a yugoslovian was a lucky one and all her friends have envied her she escaed from here to rich Yugoslavia. It was worse when they returned back to CS together with their husbands and kids 10-20 years later just to avoid f****n civil war and all madness what happened in your countries... And as I heard, CS was not far enough. I heard rumours about all foreign Serbs also had to go on military service during civil war. I heard about one serbian/czech family. Czech mother had a YU passport for herself and her kids `couse during communism she could travel to the west with it, with Czechoslovak passsport she could go only to Hungary, Bulgaria, etc. But she forget to cancel her and her sons YU citizenships, passports and nationalities or I don`t know what everything they had when it all started in 1991... Later in 90`s her sons recieved letters from YU conscripting them to YU army (even if they maybe have never been to Serbia) and they had to go south there and kill people in unknown civil war and one of them died there. That`s a story I heard, but believe can be at least in the main point based on reality.

WHole YU problem is a big stain and shame of all SLAVs. Killing brothers each other just for the profit foreign powers. All NATO bastards, Arabian world and unfortunatelly also "big Slavic brother" RUSSIA were earning money of Yugoslavian blood.
BTW, we mentioned our Vladimir Meciar earlier today. During his reign Slovakia would never allow NATO bombers to fly through our territory during actions against YU in 1999. I remember US bombers flying over Bratislava non-stop all for several days. I can`t imagine how the places where it "unloaded" it`s shipment looked like thereafter...
I think this was the main reason why Meciar he has quickly replaced by that filthy small rat Dzurinda in 1998. Czechoslovakia was devided among Bruxelles and Moscow, but Russia overrated himself and when realized SLovakia is for them too much effort for no or almost no benefit, sold us to EU and NATO. Just like it did with Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania and other similar countries...
Only strong Russia can guarantee Slavic nations their independence. No more Russian superpower, no more freedom for SLavs and turning them to Slaves of MacDonalds, Peugeots, VWs, KIAs, IBMs, KPMGs, etc. etc.

Now only to decide on a unique unit...

Yugoslavia was never a paradise, and while alive, Tito managed to delay conflicts that were inevitable.

As for Mother Russia. I feel the hairs on the back of my neck tingling. The traditional 'enemy' of all non-orthodox slavs. If events had turned out how they intended I'd be long dead by now. Those Hungarian AK-47 came in handy.

It is a good thing that the Empire had been resurrected. Frau Plassnik showed teeth last month. With Austria and Hungary behind our backs, nothing bad can happen to Croatia.

As for Dzurinda, it took serious balls to openly go against Britain, Sweden and the State Department and side with Croatia.

I shop at BILLA, tank gas at OMV, drive a KIA Spectra, own a RBA Mastercard, PBZ Intessa Maestro and Visa Electron debit cards, have a Nokia GSM on VIP Vodafone. I drink Belgian, Czech and Bavarian beer, eat Belgian and Swiss chocolate. What more could I ask for? The best things in the world are mine. :king:

[QUOTE=Anima Croatorum]
With Austria and Hungary behind our backs, nothing bad can happen to Croatia.

That is not entirely corect, because u can hear a visper in Slovenija abaut referendum, if Hrvaska should became member of EU. And u know what that mean... :lol:

I belive the reason that Slovenians, Croats, Serbians,... understand each other is that (expeialy Slovenians and Croats) have lived in the same state since the times of Austria - Hungary. But the differences of both nationes and thei interest proved too big and the disagreement grew bigger and bigger... Thank god that we live in 21st century... in what is happening betwen Slovenia and Croatia would happen maybe in ealry 20th century...we would probablybe in war.:blush: Anyway i like Croatia expecialy island of Pag! And anima croatium...there is one car manufacturer in Slovenia - TAM:)

@Grega: Referendum, schmeferendum. Rupel and his clowns can do their little boasts to avert the eyes of the public from real problems, but that wont do much when the time of decision comes. Slovenian economy is far too dependant on Croatian market. Too many jobs depend on how Slovenia is percieved in Croatia. And vice versa, we export a lot into Slovenia as well. They better listen to Drnovšek before Slovenian companies start ganging up on them. Beware of Kolinska and Droga Portorož.

@SG-1: There is nothing really happening between Slovenia and Croatia, its a squabble over 10,000€ of fish a year. And its rather useful to put it into the media to spend less time showing the real issues, like economy, education, health... stuff that matters. Even a hundred years ago, there would never be a war over something so small and insignificant.

Anyway, when Slovenia was thinking of changing the flag, there were quite a few jokes on that account. Like renaming the country to Morenija to differentiate it from Slovakia and renaming Koper to Otvorenomorsk so that all the world knows that Morenija has open seas access. :p

Just wait until Venice, Kaernten, Istra and Rijeka set their sights on Koper...

TAM? What is it? How does it work? How does it look? Can you eat it? :p

And finally, lets talk about Slovenian civ.
What about leaders?
Janez Janša(aggressive, organized) - Prime Minister of Slovenia(and great war hero)
Valuk(spiritual, expansive) - Duke of Great Karantania(are there any paintings or statues of him, anywhere?)

As for unique unit, how bout Kekec. He's the best known Slovenian, always gets into all sorts of trouble and manages to get out safely.

Kekec - Scout
Promotions: Guerilla I&II, Woodsman I&II

These are somewhat different, there was never a major cultural difference. Back in HYW these were simply different dynasties, but ruled over the same people. Perhaps LAnkou can fill you in on the details.Major cultural difference?? Between Serbia and Montenegro? :crazyeye: Interesting.... If we have a major cultural difference, than today Serbia should be divided into 5-6 states.


P.S.
Please people, no more talk about ex-YU states in this thread.
The title is SERBIA.

Thanks Velja, what a great idea to make Serbs as a playable civ!

If if could, I would change the entire hajduk model though.

Живела Србија!

sorry, non-slavian

english : slavian
french : slave

english: slave
french: esclave

note that slave, slavian, esclave all come from a greek word meaning slavian who were the main greek slave at this time....
that's why alexander went to anarchy and choose emancipation, so dumb french people like me won't do any mistake like this one

Salut le Breton du coin !

Juste pour préciser que la relation entre slave et esclave n'a pas été prouvée jusqu'à présent. Par contre, il est certain que des tribus slaves ne furent jamais les esclaves des Grecs, mais plutôt des Avars.

In english: I want to clarify that the link between slave and Slav hasn't been proven yet. However it is sure that some Slavic tribes were never Greeks' slaves, but rather Avars' slaves.

Anima: Then you are an really cool guy. While being in HR I tank gas at INA, drink only Jamnica (or my friends Karlovačko), I love your perfect cheese, even if it`s very expensive...
I have never eaten at McDOnalds, don`t even know Belgians are brewing any beer, have never eaten Swiss chocolate (I am not buying these stuffs at all) or driven other car than Skoda and also don`t have a Visa credit card... My motto, is what`s our - it`s the best! Unfortunatelly, there`s not much left... Croatia is the 2nd most beautyfull country in all over the world, right after Slovenia. Slovenia is 1/3 size of Slovkia but has EVERYTHING, beautyfull Jadran coast (even if very small, but still), 3000 meters high Julian Alps and also fertile lowlands at Lendava. YU was beautyfull big country. Superb beaches in Croatia, high mountains with lot of snow in all other federation states... Now you have mines all over Bosnia and 1/5 of Croatia... Fortunatelly there are no mines in Macedonia, `couse locals would walk on them if seeing "mine" signs...
Everybody always wanted to own land of south slavs, couse it`s perfect place to live, you have managed to survive and keep the land for centuries. Don`t loose everything! I feel sad hearing young Slovenians speaking they are not Slavs but Italians... What a <deleted>! Than I am a mixture of albanian shepherd and bosnian female gypsy...
WHen Dzurinda holded side of Croatia? Maybe he said he wants CRO in EU, but it`s his role. He`s paid for seing it. Dzurinda definitelly has no balls. After all, all Slovaks love Croatia and spending their holidays there even if Croatia is more and more expensive every year while tourist services and kindness of locals toward tourists is lacking the famous slavic hospitality, but who cares. I am not going to Croatia for Croats, but for your Jadran. You can learn a lot how to deal with tourists eg. from Greeks. But still, when I heard experiences of my friends who were in Egypt, Tunisia, etc. You are still gentlemen comparing with them.

Warned for language and flaming. --Padma

Thread moved to World History

I just don't understand people who claim that Serbs and Montenigers are different nations?!They have the same origin,language and now we live in the same state!That's the same with Croatian people.We have the same language(you claim we don't but it is totaly same!) and origin.Just big problems and missunderstandings divited us so we hate each other!That's so pathetic.