Modern/Kingdom of Italy [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Mussolini

Nov 26, 2005, 11:35 AM

Rufus T. Firefly

Nov 26, 2005, 12:10 PM

Why not Benito Mussolini and Giuseppe Garibaldi as leaders for Italy, both are a part of italian history. Garibaldi was the "father" of the modern country, and Mussolini was one of the greatest leaders of it history.

Mussolini should not be considered a villian. His goal was to form a Empire. He was the first to defend Austria in 1934 when Hilter tried a coup d'etat, took a stronger anti-Nazi line than Britain after Hilter breach the Treaty of Versailles in 35'. He was tricked into believe that France and Britain would allow him to gain Abyssinia as agreed to in Stressa. When the embrago (From Britian and France) was created he had no choice to ally with Germany to gain natural resoures (he was Also promised djibuti, corsica, and nice with greater contol of tunisia from Hilter Before he delcared war on France, something hilter turned his back on). Mussolini should not be refered to as a "villian" but a man that fought for Italian pride. I'm sorry for getting so political but i believe sometimes what has to be said should be said. Of course he made mistakes and was backed into horrible decisions from a stronger country, but what leader in the history of the world has not done this?

What about Matteotti omicide? The racial laws? The abolition of other parties? The remotion of the indipendence of magistrature and university?

I'm Italian, and I not think that Mussolini is a pride for Italy. BTW, I think that he was an important Italian leader and then it would be a good unpolitically (but historic) correct choice.

Mussolini

Nov 26, 2005, 01:05 PM

What about Matteotti omicide? The racial laws? The abolition of other parties? The remotion of the indipendence of magistrature and university?

I'm Italian, and I not think that Mussolini is a pride for Italy. BTW, I think that he was an important Italian leader and then it would be a good unpolitically (but historic) correct choice.

I care not to talk about his politics for this is not the forum to do so, but I am also Italian, and this man changed a pile of junk that was Italy into something all italians home and abroad were proud of, that alone he should be a leader in this game

Rufus T. Firefly

Nov 26, 2005, 02:44 PM

I care not to talk about his politics for this is not the forum to do so, but I am also Italian, and this man changed a pile of junk that was Italy into something all italians home and abroad were proud of, that alone he should be a leader in this game

Italian patriotism was created before, by Risorgimento's ideals (which include also democratic process) and the WW1, when soldiers from different regions became the same Italians.

Please don't confuse patriotism with jingoism.

Sadistik

Nov 26, 2005, 03:11 PM

Much better the Bersagliere as UU. And Garibaldi was not a political leader or a headstate, like the one on Civ.

Garibaldi was dictator of Sicily. He handed it over to King V. E.

Sadistik

Nov 26, 2005, 03:15 PM

Why not Benito Mussolini and Giuseppe Garibaldi as leaders for Italy, both are a part of italian history. Garibaldi was the "father" of the modern country, and Mussolini was one of the greatest leaders of it history.

Mussolini should not be considered a villian. His goal was to form a Empire. He was the first to defend Austria in 1934 when Hilter tried a coup d'etat, took a stronger anti-Nazi line than Britain after Hilter breach the Treaty of Versailles in 35'. He was tricked into believe that France and Britain would allow him to gain Abyssinia as agreed to in Stressa. When the embrago (From Britian and France) was created he had no choice to ally with Germany to gain natural resoures (he was Also promised djibuti, corsica, and nice with greater contol of tunisia from Hilter Before he delcared war on France, something hilter turned his back on). Mussolini should not be refered to as a "villian" but a man that fought for Italian pride. I'm sorry for getting so political but i believe sometimes what has to be said should be said. Of course he made mistakes and was backed into horrible decisions from a stronger country, but what leader in the history of the world has not done this?
As Mr. Hitler said, the winners write the history books. Hitler's disgusting behavior damned him and took the entire Axis down with him by association.

Ironically, Stalin, by association with the Western Democracies, comes out smelling like a rose, even though he tried to move the entire Jewish community to the extreme eastern portion of Siberia, which according to international law is considered the same as Genocide. Plus, he killed 20 million people.

I'd gladly prefer living under Corporatist Italy before FDRist America, or even visiting Stalinist Russia.

I agree with -- and disagree with -- a lot of what Mr. Mussolini had to say, but he was generally a weak figure intellectually who took his philosophy from Gentile.

Sadistik

Nov 26, 2005, 03:20 PM

The abolition of other parties?

Modern Democracies do that now. If Mussolini tried to start a party in Germany in 2005 he'd be branded an antisemite, thrown in jail, and his party banned.

See: Dozens of German parties, or more recently the Flemish Block in Belgium.

In the span of 50 years, Italy went from colonizing Africa to being colonized by Africa. You do the math :)

But I'm not going to really take sides, since this is a game forum and not a political one, and since I really don't see the point in arguing the merits of Mussolini in modern Italy. As far as politicians go, he's by far the most important. His actions brought the death of a millennia-old empire, created sovereignty for the papacy, brought the collapse of the monarchy, the end of colonies in Greece and Africa, a possible communist takeover, and even the potential for Sicily to be annexed by the USA.

He said beforehand that Italy wouldn't be ready until the mid 1940s. Hitler told him it was a sure thing. After the Blitzkrieg and Britain showing no backbone in Eastern Europe, it seemed like he was right.

Rufus T. Firefly

Nov 26, 2005, 04:23 PM

Garibaldi was dictator of Sicily. He handed it over to King V. E.

Only on 1859. I think that this is not a great idea of politics. Also because he was dictator in roman sense: a person that take the power for a short period when prompt action is necessary.

About the abolition of parties, I mean that Mussolini abolished all parties.

NickSD

Nov 27, 2005, 06:08 AM

Sadistik

Nov 27, 2005, 11:38 AM

Quit poking the Italians to add Il Duce, they can put in whatever leader they want. That's the beauty of civ.

I hate Mussolini, but if you want him so much, make a Mussolini mod yourself. That's the beauty of civ.

Nick

I agree. I'm not Pro or Contra him, but to simply rule him out because of Hitler would be stupid. He was inept, and he didn't make the trains run on time. That's a better reason not to have him ;)

Celio Vibenna

Nov 28, 2005, 06:02 AM

Mussolini is ok for Italy, he was the first Leader that applied socialism in Italy.

You have a very strange idea of "socialism".

For the UU....I think Folgore is better

Folgore is not more than a unit already in Civilization Units.

Robo Magic Man

Nov 28, 2005, 04:08 PM

You guys are definitely right about Caesar not being very accurate for Italy, but I just don't have the programs or expertise to edit leaderheads. If anyone has a good picture of Vittorio Emanuel that they can convert, package, and post here so I can put it in the mod, please do so. An animated leader would be great, but a photo would be fine.
Thanks for the suggestions!

Prometeo

Nov 28, 2005, 05:10 PM

Hi all guys. I'm Italian and I'd like to explain my opinion about modern italy leaders.

First of all i think that Garibaldi is unfit to be used as "leader". He was a leader on the battlefield, but not a politician. I think that Giuseppe Mazzini and Camillo Benso of Cavour would be better. Mazzini was the father of the spiritual rebirth of Italy and Cavour the smart politician that directed Garibaldi's movements.

What about Benito Mussolini?
He represent for 90% of Italians only a bad rember of the worse period of our history. He killed many people in order to gain the power, and kept this situation using brutal force of fascist police. He has been leader for a long time, it's true. But also many other people have been to! For example Giolitti (the one who governed Italy before Mussolini dictatorship) or Alcide de Gasperi (after WWII).

I suggest Mazzini and Cavour. Maybe Vittorio Emanuele II...
But don't take Mussolini (or Berlusconi :cry: ) please :mischief:

ps= UU ??? Bersagliere (fast rifleman) or Alpino (good on hills)

Robo Magic Man

Nov 28, 2005, 05:37 PM

sorry, duplicate post

Sadistik

Nov 29, 2005, 12:41 PM

Giolitti is definately a good pick, although most people don't know him.

GeoModder

Nov 29, 2005, 01:33 PM

Better Caesar than Silvio Berlusconi... :)

I'm going to create Etruscan Civilization, if it can interest someone...

Hey, perhaps that Hypaphist unit in the scenario folder can find a use as UU here. (properly renamed of course)

kingpenguin

Nov 29, 2005, 05:18 PM

Here's three choices for a Victor Emmanuel leaderhead, all sized and converted. Do you know how to put them in? If not, it's in assets/XML/art/Civ4artdefines_leaderhead where you change the appropriate nif file into your chosen dds file. The files go in assets/art/leaderheads. Probably a way to just rename your file, too, but this is easy enough.

Fireb

Dec 01, 2005, 11:05 AM

I'm going to create Etruscan Civilization, if it can interest someone...

Yes. I'm interested :)

I'm currently creating a Roman Kings mod:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=145070

Featured civs will be Rome, The Etruscans, Latinium and Sabine.

New Civs or even Leadheads for any of those civs (including Romulus of course) would be very nice.

I'm currently using Hatty for the Etruscans (seems appropriate, apart from the war chariots), and Mansa Mulla for the Sabines (skirmisher UU seems appropriate for them).

Have you done any work on it Celio?

Robo Magic Man

Dec 03, 2005, 02:16 PM

Thanks for the leaderheads, penguin, I'll try them out.

Robo Magic Man

Dec 04, 2005, 06:26 PM

I suggest Mazzini and Cavour. Maybe Vittorio Emanuele II...
But don't take Mussolini (or Berlusconi :cry: ) please :mischief:

ps= UU ??? Bersagliere (fast rifleman) or Alpino (good on hills)
Don't worry, I won't use Mussolini. I'm Italian as well, and while I agree with some of you that he played a very substantial role in Italian history, I think that there are better choices (like Vittorio), and leaders shouldn't be villains.

Robo Magic Man

Dec 26, 2005, 11:11 PM

Mussolini is ok for Italy, he was the first Leader that applied socialism in Italy.
For the UU....I think Folgore is better
I know Mussolini was originally a socialist and wrote for a socialist newsletter, but he never applied socialism when he ruled Italy. He was a fascist, and sent his blackshirts to kill socialists.

Sadistik

Dec 27, 2005, 03:42 PM

leaders shouldn't be villains.

too late. fdr and mao are in ;)

Italicus

Dec 28, 2005, 07:48 PM

Jecrell

Dec 28, 2005, 09:59 PM

too late. fdr and mao are in ;)

To compare FDR to Mao is just silly. Now get off the forums before I seriously start to just reply with "lol" to this silly post.

Everyone knows Mao was a saint!
(waits for laughter)

Robo Magic Man

Dec 30, 2005, 12:30 PM

Robo Magic Man

Dec 30, 2005, 12:33 PM

The Romans goes more than well for represent Italy and Italians, considering that we are descendants of the Romans at least how much the Croatians of Tomislav are ancestors of the Croatians of Sanader.
Yeah, that's what I though when I posted version 1.0, but most people wanted a more Italian leader like Vittorio (which is fine with me).

Sadistik

Dec 30, 2005, 04:05 PM

Seriously, though, I can't see how u could say that FDR was a villain. Even if you don't like how far to the left he was, all the government help he provided during the depression was essential to all the unemployed workers at the time. If you want an American villain, choose Reagan. He thought trees caused pollution, confused real life with his movies, and basically destroyed anti-trust acts, allowing huge companies and monopolies to exploit workers and dominate the country again. Just because Reagan was a good speaker doesn't make him a good person, politician, or president.

Also, his first, middle, and last names each had 6 letters. 666 (see post icon)

...FDR knew in advance the Japanese were going to attack the U.S., and that's specifically why he instituted the Oil Embargo. He was a huge fan of Stalin, the biggest mass murderer in European history. He brought Marxism to the United States. He tried to destroy the judicial branch of government. (See: 1848 Manifesto)

He was charismatic, and he was elected four times. But for all of his progressive views, he was still very anti-black in his actions, in a time where he could have sparked the civil rights movement 30 years ahead of time.

In closing, I could say the same to you. How dare you compare FDR to Ronnie Raygun. ;)

FDR and Mao are in Civ 4. If FDR is a bit of a strong thing to say, then, uh... Elizabeth, who enslaved millions and attempted to exterminate entire Irish sects is in the game ;)

Italicus

Dec 30, 2005, 09:07 PM

Yeah, that's what I though when I posted version 1.0, but most people wanted a more Italian leader like Vittorio (which is fine with me).

The leaders would be better ce were some than more in fact, but more leaders do not mean to change to all the civilization. ;) I think would go well Vittorio Emanuele, Cavour or Garibaldi, or to even insert some leaders of the past type Scipio or Traiano.

OzzyKP

Dec 30, 2005, 10:33 PM

Because he was a fascist pig. Both Mao and Stalin helped save the world during WWII. Mussolini was on the opposite side. I believe that Italy deserves better than to be represented by a dark and shameful episode of its history. Leaders should be heroes, not villains.

Stalin a hero? :lol:

Stalin and Mao are much more of villans than Mussolini.

OzzyKP

Dec 30, 2005, 10:36 PM

...FDR knew in advance the Japanese were going to attack the U.S., and that's specifically why he instituted the Oil Embargo. He was a huge fan of Stalin, the biggest mass murderer in European history. He brought Marxism to the United States. He tried to destroy the judicial branch of government. (See: 1848 Manifesto)

He was charismatic, and he was elected four times. But for all of his progressive views, he was still very anti-black in his actions, in a time where he could have sparked the civil rights movement 30 years ahead of time.

In closing, I could say the same to you. How dare you compare FDR to Ronnie Raygun. ;)

FDR and Mao are in Civ 4. If FDR is a bit of a strong thing to say, then, uh... Elizabeth, who enslaved millions and attempted to exterminate entire Irish sects is in the game ;)

I wouldn't quite call FDR a villian, but yes he is far from my favorite President. And Robo, most economists today from what I've heard believe that the New Deal actually prolonged the Depression, and didn't help it.

DrLime

Dec 31, 2005, 12:53 AM

Seriously, though, I can't see how u could say that FDR was a villain. Even if you don't like how far to the left he was, all the government help he provided during the depression was essential to all the unemployed workers at the time. If you want an American villain, choose Reagan. He thought trees caused pollution, confused real life with his movies, and basically destroyed anti-trust acts, allowing huge companies and monopolies to exploit workers and dominate the country again. Just because Reagan was a good speaker doesn't make him a good person, politician, or president.

Also, his first, middle, and last names each had 6 letters. 666 (see post icon)
Um, other than rejuvenating the US economy from all of Carter's mismanagement and making business in the US profitable again... Yeah, Reagan was Satan. Or maybe you just don't understand supply side economics. I'm guessing your ability of comprehension is pretty , you know, since you're using some coincidence in his initials to prove he's satan.... :blush:

And as for the topic: I don't get it, is the point of a modern Italian civilization just to suck and get raped by Ethiopians like in real life?

Italicus

Dec 31, 2005, 08:58 AM

Stalin a hero? :lol:

Stalin and Mao are much more of villans than Mussolini.

Between the Slavic people unfortunately, personages as Stalin or Tito are consider the heroes, and not of the criminals which was...

Italicus

Dec 31, 2005, 09:01 AM

And as for the topic: I don't get it, is the point of a modern Italian civilization just to suck and get raped by Ethiopians like in real life?

I don't understand why make scandal the conquest of Ethiopia when France and UK in the same years had about 50% of the planet...:rolleyes:

DrLime

Dec 31, 2005, 12:56 PM

I don't understand why make scandal the conquest of Ethiopia when France and UK in the same years had about 50% of the planet...:rolleyes:
Because even through now Italy isn't in anyway a world cultural/military/scientific power and is quite possibly the worst choice for a new civ addition.

Robo Magic Man

Dec 31, 2005, 05:34 PM

Of course Italy's not a major power, but I and others I've talked to would enjoy playing as Italy. Just read the Europa Europa Mod thread. One person there points out that they played as Italy, and loved the mod. Adding new civs isn't about significance (just look at the Croatia, Belgium, and Antarctica mods). It's about playing as a nation or leader that you can't normally play as, and enjoying the game more because of it.

Italicus

Jan 01, 2006, 03:59 PM

I am of the opinion that Rome goes well, it could insert a mod that allows to play other leaders beyond Caesar. And even than change the symbol of the civilization after a date age, but in this case would be right to make them for ALL the civilizations.

Robo Magic Man

Jan 01, 2006, 06:32 PM

Robo Magic Man

Jan 01, 2006, 06:47 PM

Um, other than rejuvenating the US economy from all of Carter's mismanagement and making business in the US profitable again... Yeah, Reagan was Satan. Or maybe you just don't understand supply side economics. I'm guessing your ability of comprehension is pretty , you know, since you're using some coincidence in his initials to prove he's satan.... :blush:

And as for the topic: I don't get it, is the point of a modern Italian civilization just to suck and get raped by Ethiopians like in real life?

Okay, first of all, making business profitable shouldn't be what's inportant to a country. I don't give a crap if some CEO with a Virgin Islands bank account can't afford a second Ferrari when anti-trust acts cut him down to size by making sure smaller businesses who respect their workers have a chance to succeed. Prosperity of a country means prosperity for as many people as possible, not the prosperity of the richest 5% of the population. And, if Reagan had stopped anti-trust groups because wanted a free market, which he and most of his supporters would say, then why would he stifle free competition by allowing trusts to ruthlessly dominate the marketplace?
And btw, the 666 thing was a joke. No one is supposed to take that seriously. But then again, you did:blush: .

And as for the topic: The Ethiopian thing was a mistake by Mussolini. That should have no more bearing on the national identity of Italy then that of the Holocaust on Germany. The majority of Italians today know their limits and the benefits of peace, just like Germans today are generally not anti-semitic or genocidal.

DrLime

Jan 01, 2006, 08:30 PM

Okay, first of all, making business profitable shouldn't be what's inportant to a country.
It's funny, because if business isn't profitable in the country then what becomes important becomes simple necessities like obtaining food and water- because without income from businesses the government can't function (no tax income), citizens cannot provide for themselves (no jobs) and the entire GDP falls.

I agree that economics shouldn't be the major focus of a nation's principlies, but a solid economy is required for a nation to fulfil any of it's other goals (civil liberties) because it's that economy that finances those liberties and their maintainence/protection.

I don't give a crap if some CEO with a Virgin Islands bank account can't afford a second Ferrari when anti-trust acts cut him down to size by making sure smaller businesses who respect their workers have a chance to succeed. Prosperity of a country means prosperity for as many people as possible, not the prosperity of the richest 5% of the population.
Thanks for proving you have absolutely no grasp of supply side economics- at all. It has been proven time and again then by the government taking direct action to redistribute and micromanage wealth supply, a subpar is done and in the end it is more costly to both the government to manage such programs and mange wealth, but also those programs are ineffective in providing ample finances to those who need it.

So Reagan came in and cleaned house. He removed restrictions on businesses to allow them to grow, gave tax cuts. The idea being that people who receive wealth on the bottom rungs of society are more likely to directly invest that money into consumable goods, whereas the rich are more likely to reinvest it in business, which in turn creates jobs and provides people on the bottom rung of society the opportunity to earn the wages to support themselves. And when Reagan did it, it worked- unemployment fell and the stock market started to rise after years of decline.

And, if Reagan had stopped anti-trust groups because wanted a free market, which he and most of his supporters would say, then why would he stifle free competition by allowing trusts to ruthlessly dominate the marketplace?
Because economies require consumers. Small businesses have to charge a higher price for a product because they lack the large scale means to produce and manufacture. Because larger companies can introduce new products to the market at a severely reduced price it sparks more consumption and the incentive for the rich to reinvest is realized in form of profits.

And btw, the 666 thing was a joke. No one is supposed to take that seriously. But then again, you did:blush: .
I realized it was a joke, but it was just so uninspired, unfunny and such an illogical cheap shot, I figured I'd do the same to you. As a joke, of course.:blush:

Robo Magic Man

Jan 01, 2006, 09:05 PM

Robo Magic Man

Jan 01, 2006, 09:10 PM

Also, feel free to post some last word, but it's obvious we're not going to convert eachother or anyone else here. This thread is for Civ IV mods, not political debate, so I think I'll leave this space for people who want to comment on my mod. DrLime, open a new thread if you want, maybe I'll post something there.

Italicus

Jan 02, 2006, 12:13 AM

So basically Rome would turn into Italy, Gaul would turn into France, etc. as the game goes on? Yeah, that would be neat, but that might require programming beyond modding, or a 2 part mod (Play 1 mod for ancient, reach a certain date, and load the next mod for modern). The trick with a 2 part thing would be loading the same save file in 2 mods.

I'm sure that the experts of the forum could realize the mod if they wanted. ;)

However I don't contrary to a mod with Italy, indeed! But in this case I think that Rome as civilization would be replaced "tout court", and without forget that the history of Italy begins from Rome, not from 1860.:king:

Italicus

Jan 02, 2006, 12:22 AM

I have seen now you have brought the modifications that I wanted, very well!! But as I made to insert it in the game?
I don't practical with the mods sorry.

Robo Magic Man

Jan 02, 2006, 08:01 PM

Alright, well I just hosted the mod on a new site, so everything is packaged and ready to install. Just download the Italy Mod.zip file and unzip it into C:/Program Files/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization IV/Mods

DrLime

Jan 02, 2006, 10:37 PM

You're right about a strong economy being important. I should have worded that better. What I meant was that while companies certainly need to be profitable for their country to be prosperous, I believe that many companies need to use their wealth either to function better for the consumers, or give back to people who need the money, like their workers. Many companies, like Wal-Mart for instance, funnel exorbitant amounts of money to CEOs, when it could easily go toward more reasonable wages (the average Wal-Mart store employee makes $9.68 an hour) or toward keeping business in America by not using foreign sweatshops and instead using American (preferably union) labor.
Walmart actually does funnel a huge portion of it's profits back to the consumer in form of it's stocks that allow them to lower prices. I agree that too many CEOs pull too much money away from their companies for their own use, but that's part of the nature of business, it's always happened.

As for the Walmart example, the same tactics are used by both Target and Costco, yet only Walmart takes the flak for it. You know why?

Because they're the one's make the biggest profit. Know why they're making the biggest profit?

Because they're the ones catering to the poor and their own employees. Statistically speaking, the workers of Walmart actually benefit from being low wages because the low wages allow for lower prices in the store- which they can capitalize on and in the end save money. Consider that the average income for a Walmart shopper is between $20-30 thousand, whereas Target is $50 thousand and Costco is $80 thousand. It's the same economic philosophy followed by Henry Ford. Not to mention that Walmart workers make more than minimum wage, an amazing feat since the actual services most Walmart employees perform don't warrant it, from an economic standpoint. If you're looking for a job to support yourself on, you should invest your time into developing a trade that allows for it.

As for using union labor, explain why unions are still beneficial today? You're obviously not from New York or the tristate area. Unions were useful back during the early industrial era of the nation because working conditions were literaly, deadly. So the idea of striking to impose basic safety measures was logical. In modern times all unions do is destroy business- look at the recent transit strike in NYC-look at the automobile industry. They're no good anymore.

By keeping jobs in the U.S., we keep money here to fuel our economy and keep our citizens out of poverty. When Reagan allowed the already huge companies to grow, those companies turned to outsourcing to make higher and higher profits. If manufacturing jobs were kept in America, employment would obviously be higher, and more workers and consumers would have more money. If the lower income workers were paid reasonably and didn't have their jobs outsourced, we wouldn't need Wal-Mart's low prices.
If this was true, explain why unemployment fell? Of course some businesses went overseas, but I remind you that lower prices spark more consumption which sparks even more business. The problem with your logic, and why it's totally wrong, is that it's impossible to keep jobs in the US without treating the workers poorly. Look at the businesses still in the US- why do you think American car companies are failing so miserably? The automotive labor union has insured so many benefits for their workers no matter what- the incentives that capitalism is based on is eliminated. You can't be super nice to workers and expect the business to thrive. It's the reality of the situation.

However, your point about tax cuts for the rich and for corporations brings me back to my first point. Yes, tax cuts for the poor will lead to less investing and more purchases of consumables, but this is needed to a certain degree because there are many people who desperately need consumables, and the drop in poverty, I believe, would more than make up for the slight decline in the economy that might occur.
The problem is that you are neglecting the ratio of poor:rich people in this nation and how the tax cut system is set up. The majority of the poor wouldn't recieve enough money to make any serious decline in poverty because they pay so little into taxes already. It wouldn't make any serious change in their standard of living, whereas business is allowed to grow, more people would obtain that standard of living.

And, you're right that more money going towards businesses often leads to higher wages. However, with other companies, it quite often does not. It goes toward the already rich top of the corporation, and the top rung of society, skipping over the poor who need it. They can't pick themselves up by their bootstraps if they can't afford boots.
I agree with you on this- the more selfish people there are that become affluent at the expense of the poor has become ridiculous. However, keep in mind that if the CEO of a corporation pockets $25 million dollars at the end of the year from his 10000 worker company, each worker only makes an additional $2500 per year if the CEO gives it all back to the workers. Since we know the mastermind who's invested thousands of his dollars and hours into a company will reject to capitalize on the fruits of his work in favor helping others, even if he recycled a majority of his money back to the workers it'd be negligible.

Post Script: Earlier, I wasn't talking about how Italy was trying to be imperialist. I was talking about how god awful they were at it.

Robo Magic Man

Jan 03, 2006, 05:54 PM

I do have a few things I'd like to say here, but I really don't want to take up so much space on the thread for stuff that has nothing to do with the mod. And frankly, while I don't object to debate in general, there really is no point to this one. It's an issue deeply rooted in America's politics and opinions, and we're not going to change any informed persons' minds about the subject. It's been a good debate, but I think it's time to end it for now.

On topic: You're definitely right that Italy failed their attempt at imperialism, but less imperialism in the world doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.:)

PawelS

Jan 05, 2006, 04:53 PM

Between the Slavic people unfortunately, personages as Stalin or Tito are consider the heroes, and not of the criminals which was...

Not all Slavic people like Stalin, in Poland he's definitely not considered a hero.

Robo Magic Man

Jan 05, 2006, 06:45 PM

Well I just finished my first game as Italy, winning a space-race victory:king:, and noticed no errors besides that magnifiying unit alert thing that shows an off-screen selected unit showing a pink circle instead of the Redshirt icon. If anyone knows how to fix this, please let me know.

I don't know if it has to do with the mod or if it's just coincidence but the game was incredibly easy, even for a chieftan level game. I played well into the 21st century and never fought a SINGLE gunpowder unit. I don't think anyone besides me even discovered gunpowder. I'm usually more technologically advanced than my competitors, but I was fighting chinese longbowmen with gunships and mech infantry! This seems like an error but I don't see how the mod could affect that, especially considering I barely used my UUs at all. And considering the only people I fought were an incredibly weak America (I destroyed all their cities on my continent, but gave them a new one somewhere else:goodjob: ) and China, who was colonizing my shores very late in the game.

So, if anyone has some insight on my game or could let me know why everyone else was stuck in the medieval era in 2008, please post.

Italicus

Jan 05, 2006, 09:41 PM

Not all Slavic people like Stalin, in Poland he's definitely not considered a hero.

You have reason, sorry. :)

Italicus

Jan 06, 2006, 07:51 AM

The mod it doesn't work well. :(

Robo Magic Man

Jan 07, 2006, 12:20 PM

What's wrong with the mod?:confused: Please give examples so I can improve it.

Don Pelayo

Jan 11, 2006, 04:39 PM

Mussolini wasnt that bad. Already they have Mao(killed 20 million people) and they had Stalin(killed 14 million people) in Civ. Why is Mussolini a bad choice?

I couldn't agree more. Actually, Hitler should be included as well.
It would be more fun.

Don Pelayo

Jan 11, 2006, 04:42 PM

Because he was a fascist pig. Both Mao and Stalin helped save the world during WWII. Mussolini was on the opposite side. I believe that Italy deserves better than to be represented by a dark and shameful episode of its history. Leaders should be heroes, not villains.

This is one of thge most ridiculous statements ever.
Stalin and Mao saving the world. Shameful.
Are people generally indoctrinated in Croatia or is it just you?

Don Pelayo

Jan 11, 2006, 04:49 PM

Don't worry, I won't use Mussolini. I'm Italian as well, and while I agree with some of you that he played a very substantial role in Italian history, I think that there are better choices (like Vittorio), and leaders shouldn't be villains.

If you think leaders shouldn't be villains, please explain why you are not complaining about having both Mao and Stalin as leadres. Which were responsible for many more deaths than Hitler. Many more.
And that was a record difficult to surpass.

This is a game, for Christ sake, it is good to fight against evil characters.

Robo Magic Man

Jan 11, 2006, 04:58 PM

I meant that more as a general term, not just in respect to Civ. However, while you're right about it being good to have evil characters, Mussolini isn't even an ideal evil character. He was really a failure who didn't know his country's strength, and I wouldn't want to even bother competing with someone who wasn't succesful in anything but public speaking.
Besides, I made the mod so that people could play as someone new, not to give them new adversaries.

Btw, I just finished an Alpino Unit Skin (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3563797#post3563797). Should I use this to replace the redshirt? The alpino didn't inspire the nationalism that the redshirts did, but they were around much longer.

Don Pelayo

Jan 11, 2006, 04:58 PM

Seriously, though, I can't see how u could say that FDR was a villain. Even if you don't like how far to the left he was, all the government help he provided during the depression was essential to all the unemployed workers at the time. If you want an American villain, choose Reagan. He thought trees caused pollution, confused real life with his movies, and basically destroyed anti-trust acts, allowing huge companies and monopolies to exploit workers and dominate the country again. Just because Reagan was a good speaker doesn't make him a good person, politician, or president.

Also, his first, middle, and last names each had 6 letters. 666 (see post icon)

Are you calling the guy who won the Cold war for democracy and freedom a villain? Ronald Reagan is doubtless one of the most important figures of the last century. The free world trembled for decades fearing the red attack (more than two million soldiers ready to invade Europe at any time, if it weren't for the USA who was protecting us), until this man put it to an end. During his 8 years of presidency the value of the property owned by american citizens multiplied by three, three! While defeating the USSR.
Awesome. Of course, the commies didn't like him for that.
But the free world did.
We do.
May he rest in peace.

Don Pelayo

Jan 11, 2006, 05:00 PM

I meant that more as a general term, not just in respect to Civ. However, while you're right about it being good to have evil characters, Mussolini isn't even an ideal evil character. He was really a failure who didn't know his country's strength, and I wouldn't want to even bother competing with someone who wasn't succesful in anything but public speaking.
Besides, I made the mod so that people could play as someone new, not to give them new adversaries.

You've got a point. :)
Someone should nevertheless include him so that it can be included in a WW2 scenario...

Regards

Robo Magic Man

Jan 11, 2006, 05:34 PM

I definitely agree that a WWII scenario w/ Mussolini is needed, and while I will admit that Reagan did some good things for the country, I'm still not a supporter of the majority of his policies. However, political debate really doesn't belong here. There are other forums for that:D

Italicus

Jan 12, 2006, 09:13 AM

"Giù il cappello davanti agli Alpini!" ---> Down the hat of forehead to the alpines.

So, approximately it would to be pronounced the salute that the Austrians soldiers paid to the courage and the honor of the Italians Alpines in the WWI. :)

Robo Magic Man

Jan 12, 2006, 05:36 PM

Interesting. Mind if I post that on the Alpino skin page?:)

onedreamer

Jan 13, 2006, 01:52 PM

I agree. I'm not Pro or Contra him, but to simply rule him out because of Hitler would be stupid. He was inept, and he didn't make the trains run on time. That's a better reason not to have him ;)

it certainly wasn't his fault if trains in Italy ARE not in time. Try and make them be in time yourself if you dare :lol:

onedreamer

Jan 13, 2006, 01:57 PM

The Romans goes more than well for represent Italy and Italians, considering that we are descendants of the Romans at least how much the Croatians of Tomislav are ancestors of the Croatians of Sanader.

you must be kidding, the only thing that romans and italians have in common is their homeland.

onedreamer

Jan 13, 2006, 02:03 PM

Because even through now Italy isn't in anyway a world cultural/military/scientific power and is quite possibly the worst choice for a new civ addition.

well, for sure Italy is more of a world cultural power than your country is, so why don't you go hijacking some threads that deal with countries you know something about not just because you read it somewhere but because you have a personal experience with them ?

Sadistik

Jan 13, 2006, 09:28 PM

it certainly wasn't his fault if trains in Italy ARE not in time. Try and make them be in time yourself if you dare :lol:

It's a joke. the common thing said positively about duce is that he made the trains run on time. He didn't. It's arguable that he did a lot of other good things, such as buildings and inspiring patriotism, but trains? Nope.

LAnkou

Jan 13, 2006, 10:01 PM

as it seems there are some italian people here, i would like to ask a few questions and make some comments:

1) the greatest period of Italy being Renaissance (even if they weren't united, why not add as a second leader Laurent de Medicis?
2) why not a "condottiere" UU: Knight with bonus for city attack?
3) Finally, why do you have to "replace" Rome? wouldn't it be nice to have both Rome and Italy?

i really don't like to double civ, but if Robot Magic Man doesn't want to do so (not replacing Rome), i may create another version of modern italy:

leaders: V.E.R.D.I. (Vittorio Emmanuel Rex D'Italy, love the VERDI thing) and Laurent de Medicis
Starting Tech: agriculture and mining
UU: Condottiere (Knight with a +20% city attack)

Robo Magic Man

Jan 15, 2006, 09:13 PM

I do agree that the Renaissance was Italy's most globally influential period, but my mod focuses more on Italy as a modern, united nation. As for Rome, I know a few people wanted it preseved in the mod, but I (along with a few others) personally see Italy as a modern Rome, considering Rome started in Italy and is the source of a great deal of Italian nationalism (Mussolini wanted to create a new Roman Empire).

I think you have some great ideas, and they'd be great in a mod, but they're just not my personal preferences. Feel free to make your own Renaissance Italy mod, but please be sure to distinguish it from mine in the thread title so it doesn't look like a copy or duplicate post.

LAnkou

Jan 16, 2006, 05:14 AM

since your version of Italy replaces Rome (and doesn't just add Italy), it is in a separate library (other civs IIRC)

Throttle

Jan 17, 2006, 06:08 PM

Hi all,
if someone is interested, i'm trying to figure out how to modify this mod to just ADD the Italian Civilization, without actually removing the Roman Empire.
Since I'm Italian, I think it would be nice to play Civilization with my own country, but at the same time I'm Roman and I definitely don't want to loose Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire. Therefore I'm currently working on an enhancement of this mod to bring in the Kingdome of Italy as a new Civilization; the first beta version is almost ready.
Also, I think that Vittorio Emanuele II is a good choice, but I'm going to replace the Redshirts as special units, since very few in Italy remember who they were. The Alpini or the Bersaglieri would be a better choice, but I'm going to use the Carabinieri on my own version: they are the oldest corps among the Italian armed forces, one of the most trusted institution in Italy, and are unrivalled in popular affection and national pride.

Robo Magic Man

Jan 17, 2006, 09:39 PM

Actually, if you use the scenario edition, and then add the Roman files, it should work. However, the SE is a little buggy, so if you get yours to run smoothly, feel free to post it here. However, I would appreciate credit for the original mod if you put it on a different thread.
As for the UU, I think you're right that the redshirts aren't terribly famous. I personally play the Alpino expansion
Btw, thanks for downloading the mod!

onedreamer

Jan 18, 2006, 04:55 AM

Also, I think that Vittorio Emanuele II is a good choice, but I'm going to replace the Redshirts as special units, since very few in Italy remember who they were. The Alpini or the Bersaglieri would be a better choice, but I'm going to use the Carabinieri on my own version: they are the oldest corps among the Italian armed forces, one of the most trusted institution in Italy, and are unrivalled in popular affection and national pride.

I'm not very sure Carabinieri are so popular, seen the huge number of bad jokes about them. Also, lately they are more of a police corps than a military corps, which makes them not so very popular. Bersaglieri and Alpini are better choices IMO.
I also think that the Roman Empire and Italy are two entirely different "civs", with huge cultural differences. I don't understand why some people have to think to be somewhat "romans" to be proud to be italians.

Throttle

Jan 19, 2006, 03:09 PM

Hi again,

as I've announced in my previous post, here is the modified version of Robo's Kingdom of Italy Mod that ADDS the Kingdom of Italy Civilization as a NEW Civilization without removing the Roman Empire:

Actually, if you use the scenario edition, and then add the Roman files, it should work. However, the SE is a little buggy, so if you get yours to run smoothly, feel free to post it here. However, I would appreciate credit for the original mod if you put it on a different thread.
Robo Magic Man, I'm not interested in creating a personal brand new version of your mod and I'm not going to open a new thread. All I want is to share some enhancements that I find useful and, eventually, to give my small contribution for future new releases of this mod. Therefore I'm giving you full credit for both your original idea and work, that are great even as they are right now. Feel free to use the above version as you wish.

I'm not very sure Carabinieri are so popular, seen the huge number of bad jokes about them. Also, lately they are more of a police corps than a military corps, which makes them not so very popular. Bersaglieri and Alpini are better choices IMO.
onedreamer, despite those jokes, the Carabinieri are attributed a strict formal respect in our culture: their history is replete with so many honourable actions that the corps is even nicknamed "La Benemerita" (The Meritous).
And yes, the Carabinieri ARE the Italian MILITARY police (they are the FIRST among the four corps of the Italian Armed Forces, the others being the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force)... but not only: they are much much more.

Anyway I don't want to open a discussion on them (and I wouldn't be able to, as my english is a very basic one), but if you are interested, and want to read more about them, you may take a look at the following links or search the Internet on your own:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabinieri (]http://www.mclink.it/personal/ME2586/Civ4/ItalyMod16.zip[/URL)
[url]http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Italy/GIS.htm

I've choosen them for the game because of the GIS (Gruppo di Intervento Speciale - Special Intervention Group), the Carabinieri's elite counter-terrorism special force. I thought that if the SEALs are in the game, so may be the GIS.

Anyway, I'm not trying to impose them. It's just my personal preference.

Robo Magic Man

Jan 19, 2006, 04:54 PM

Looks great throttle :goodjob: Could you post a screenshot of the Carabinieri?

Throttle

Jan 19, 2006, 05:44 PM

Here are two screenshots:

112355

112361

One refer to the Civilopedia entry, the other one shows how the new unit appears in the game.

The following are two real photos: one of the GIS special unit, and one from the current mission in iraq.

112358

112357

And finally, here is the Civilopedia entry for Vittorio Emanuele II

112359

I'm currently writing a detailed list of all the features I've included in this mod. I'll post it as soon as possible.

Throttle

Jan 21, 2006, 04:57 PM

Hi folks,

I've just completed a new version (1.7):

Here are the changes:

Added diplomacy sound
- Early music : Verdi - Nabucco - Va pensiero chorus
- Middle music: Verdi - Aida - Triumphal March
- Late music : Verdi - Aida - Triumphal March

Modified Carabinieri Unit Graphics:
- Pants are of a slightly darker blu tone
- Pants now have the classic vertical red stripe of the Carabinieri's uniform

For those who don't want or don't like the sound, here is the same version without the sound:

[URL=]http://www.mclink.it/personal/ME2586/Civ4/ItalyMod17_nosnd.zip (]http://www.mclink.it/personal/ME2586/Civ4/ItalyMod17.zip[/URL)

Italicus

Jan 21, 2006, 07:42 PM

you must be kidding, the only thing that romans and italians have in common is their homeland.

I am not joking, but I don't doubt that many Italians want to forget the own origins if it seems is too much nationalists.

Italicus

Jan 21, 2006, 07:45 PM

I'm not very sure Carabinieri are so popular, seen the huge number of bad jokes about them. Also, lately they are more of a police corps than a military corps, which makes them not so very popular. Bersaglieri and Alpini are better choices IMO.
I also think that the Roman Empire and Italy are two entirely different "civs", with huge cultural differences. I don't understand why some people have to think to be somewhat "romans" to be proud to be italians.

YOUR political appraisals you hold them for you please. We are descendants of the Romans, know all to it, also the foreigns, solo some Italian like you it denies.

Italicus

Jan 21, 2006, 07:47 PM

Hi folks,

I've just completed a new version (1.7):

http://www.mclink.it/personal/ME2586/Civ4/ItalyMod17.zip

Here are the changes:

Added diplomacy sound
- Early music : Verdi - Nabucco - Va pensiero chorus
- Middle music: Verdi - Aida - Triumphal March
- Late music : Verdi - Aida - Triumphal March

Inno di Mameli would be better for me...

Italicus

Jan 21, 2006, 07:52 PM

Italicus

Jan 21, 2006, 07:59 PM

Hi again,

as I've announced in my previous post, here is the modified version of Robo's Kingdom of Italy Mod that ADDS the Kingdom of Italy Civilization as a NEW Civilization without removing the Roman Empire:

It's absurd play with Italians and Romans at the same time, sincerely I don't understand like an Italian and real Roman it can accept this.
However the units of the carabinieri are much beautiful.

Throttle

Jan 22, 2006, 04:32 AM

I am not joking, but I don't doubt that many Italians want to forget the own origins if it seems is too much nationalists.
Italicus,
while it is certainly true that the Roman culture has greately influenced not only the italian peninsula, but the whole mediterranean area, modern Italy and the Roman Empire are, for many reasons, two different Civilizations. At least, some of us think so, even if those ARE our origins (and noone here wants deny this).
Anyway, I don't think that this tread would be the right place for such a discussion. Let's say that having available both the Italian and the Roman civilizations gives the player the freedom to choose which one to play. But this doesn't mean that they have to exist at the same time in a game: the choice is yours.

It's absurd play with Italians and Romans at the same time, sincerely I don't understand like an Italian and real Roman it can accept this.
However the units of the carabinieri are much beautiful.
It's your opinion. Actually I think it's funny... but at least we agree on the unit!

The solution is to leave Jiulus Caesar like leader of the Italians.
I can't even imagine Caesar as leader of something different than the Roman Empire.

Throttle

Jan 22, 2006, 04:52 AM

Inno di Mameli would be better for me...
This indeed makes sense.
The reason why I didn't put it in the mod is that for the other civilizations in the game have been used popular or folkloristic pieces of music rather than their real himns. Therefore I decided to follow this guide line too. Also, Mameli's Fratelli d'Italia has never been the official him during the age of the Kingdom of Italy.

Throttle

Jan 22, 2006, 07:48 AM

This indeed makes sense.
The reason why I didn't put it in the mod is that for the other civilizations in the game have been used popular or folkloristic pieces of music rather than their real himns. Therefore I decided to follow this guide line too.

Also,Mameli's Fratelli d'Italia has never been the official him during the age of the Kingdom of Italy.

Sorry, I wrote himn instead of ANTHEM

Italicus

Jan 22, 2006, 10:58 AM

Italicus,
while it is certainly true that the Roman culture has greately influenced not only the italian peninsula, but the whole mediterranean area, modern Italy and the Roman Empire are, for many reasons, two different Civilizations. At least, some of us think so, even if those ARE our origins (and noone here wants deny this).
Anyway, I don't think that this tread would be the right place for such a discussion. Let's say that having available both the Italian and the Roman civilizations gives the player the freedom to choose which one to play. But this doesn't mean that they have to exist at the same time in a game: the choice is yours.

It's your opinion. Actually I think it's funny... but at least we agree on the unit!

I can't even imagine Caesar as leader of something different than the Roman Empire.

Unfortunately this fact has been denied instead...
But if you read the mods for the other civilizations,you will notice that other persons do not make problems in using the several one tomislav or vlad tepes (for example), heads of state of centuries or millenia ago. Only Italians we he seems to me.

If you tried to ask to a Croatian if she had sense to use the Croatian civilization of tomislav and that one of tudjman, I task that the answer would be obvious.The fact is that "the normally" persons, are proud of the own origins, we are displeased of what are modern Italy but we prefer to cry itself over.

If it wanted Italy replace of Rome I agree, but like substitute, like not adding, is like a negation of our origins, than of the rest us the many foreigns recognize that read and write here.

Italicus

Jan 22, 2006, 11:00 AM

This indeed makes sense.
The reason why I didn't put it in the mod is that for the other civilizations in the game have been used popular or folkloristic pieces of music rather than their real himns. Therefore I decided to follow this guide line too. Also, Mameli's Fratelli d'Italia has never been the official him during the age of the Kingdom of Italy.

So, then you would have had to put the royal march.

Throttle

Jan 22, 2006, 02:28 PM

Unfortunately this fact has been denied instead...
But if you read the mods for the other civilizations,you will notice that other persons do not make problems in using the several one tomislav or vlad tepes (for example), heads of state of centuries or millenia ago. Only Italians we he seems to me.

If you tried to ask to a Croatian if she had sense to use the Croatian civilization of tomislav and that one of tudjman, I task that the answer would be obvious.The fact is that "the normally" persons, are proud of the own origins, we are displeased of what are modern Italy but we prefer to cry itself over.

If it wanted Italy replace of Rome I agree, but like substitute, like not adding, is like a negation of our origins, than of the rest us the many foreigns recognize that read and write here.
Italicus, I'm not sure I understood very well the meaning of your post, but anyway in my opinion it's a pointless discussion.
In this thread you'll find two mods: one (Robo's original one) which replaces the Roman Empire with the Kingdom of Italy, and a newer version which just adds the Kingdom of Italy so you can play BOTH the Civilizations. Plus, if you play the original version of the game with no mods, you ONLY have the Roman Empire. Thus, all possible combinations are covered. I'm sure you're smart enough to decide which one is good for you.

Throttle

Jan 22, 2006, 02:29 PM

So, then you would have had to put the royal march.
Well, it's not a bad idea. I'll see if I can find a good mp3 version of the Royal March.

Italicus

Jan 23, 2006, 08:40 AM

But how you have made to design the carabinieri?

Throttle

Jan 23, 2006, 01:20 PM

But how you have made to design the carabinieri?
Of course I didn't design them from scratch. I've used Paint Shop Pro to modify the original marine skin.
Basically, all I did was to change the original colours: there are many different techniques to switch from a colour to another.
So I first changed the colour of both the uniform and beret from green to blue (version 1.6), then I darkened a bit the pants and added the red vertical stripes on them (version 1.7), while in the next and hopefully final release, I'll change the beret colour to purple and make all the other stuff (all those bags the unit is wearing) of a dark blue to match the colours of the Tuscania Regiment uniform.
After changing a colour you may have to fade its borders with the background... and that's it, there is no magic with this.

BTW I'll post the final release soon...

gianluca790

Jan 23, 2006, 02:23 PM

As for Mussolini, well, he was a maledetto fascista, and as such definitively does not deserve to represent Italy. His inclusion would be beneath modern society standards. Even Berlusconi deserves to be a leader hundred times more than that criminal.[/QUOTE]

Musslini did not drop any atom bombs on anyone, and neither did Hitler.

Throttle

Jan 23, 2006, 06:06 PM

Please, could everyone make an effort and try to keep politic comments out of this thread?

Thanks

Robo Magic Man

Jan 24, 2006, 10:08 PM

I agree that political discussion should be kept out of this thread. It's already filled up too much space.

So, in relation to the mods, thanks to all the modders who posted their edits on this thread so that due credit could be payed to both the original creator and the people who made their own versions.

Now, I believe it is true that Caesar couldn't really lead anyone but Rome. This isn't because Italy isn't somewhat Roman, it's because Caesar died long before Italy became a nation.

I mainly have to agree with Italicus and say that Italy (in my opinion) is a modern descendant of Rome. Yes the main thing they shared was their homeland, but they don't need to share much else. Over the thousands of years from Roman times to present, every other culture on earth has changed just as drastically. Languages, cultures, and customs have all changed. The only difference is that other civs like the Germanic tribes, Russia, and others stuck with one name while Rome became Italy. Of course there are no modern Italian praetorians or emperors, but that's because those ideas are now out of date. If germany can emerge from barbaric tribes, and America can emerge from English colonies, then Italy can emerge from Rome. Rome vs Italy in a game would be absurd, because they occupied the same land and have the same genetic heritage along with some similar foods, etc. All civs evolve, and Rome in many ways was not replaced by Italy, it evolved into Italy in the same way every other ancient civ evolved into their modern nations.

Robo Magic Man

Jan 29, 2006, 05:57 PM

Animated leaderhead added to the Scenario Editon (see first post)

onedreamer

Mar 04, 2006, 10:01 AM

nice mod RoboMagic, I really like the leaderhead, however I have something to say about Alpino: it should substitute Infantry not Rifleman (Carabiniere is more appropriate to substitute Rifleman) and maybe cost something less than Infantry.

onedreamer

Mar 04, 2006, 10:09 AM

It's absurd play with Italians and Romans at the same time, sincerely I don't understand like an Italian and real Roman it can accept this.
However the units of the carabinieri are much beautiful.

I'm sure REAL romans will get over this problem... after all I don't think they'd play Civ4 where they are now.

Italicus

Mar 27, 2006, 07:14 AM

But if it is for this, I don't believe the ancient Germans or the Russian of Peter the Great now play to civ4.

Robo Magic Man

Jan 02, 2008, 04:34 PM

I switched to a new computer awhile ago, and this mod is lost as far as I can tell. If anyone still has it (unlikely, I know) could you pm me with a link so I can put it back up for download.

I loved Filegone for its simplicity, but after it changed to rogepost and is now part of some "nodeededucation" thing, it has basically killed my mods...

Tevious

Jan 13, 2008, 06:56 AM

I had a few ideas for this mod, if anyone's still open to suggestions.

First off: Leaders. Why not have 3 leaders for Italy? 3 Leaders which could cover the entire history from the Risorgimento till today... my personal suggestions would be:

1st Leader, Risorgimento period: Vittorio Emanuele II or Garibaldi

2nd Leader, WW1 period: Vittorio Emanuele III or Armando Diaz (the general who brought Italy to victory against the austro-hungarian empire in ww1, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armando_Diaz)

3rd leader, (since most of u out there want to avoid Mussolini i'l skip directly to the post-war era): De Gasperi or (Suggestions here? Ciampi wouldn't be a bad choise I think)

how does this look?
UU: Bersagliere or Alpino, I Mille were only active in the risorgimento period, whilst these 2 have always been part of the Italian army.

UB: (suggestions needed....... Stadio Calcistico? (football stadium) )

Starting Technologies: Agriculture, Mining

Robo Magic Man

Jan 13, 2008, 02:16 PM

Yeah, I think more leaders would be good. I'll get to that when I have time (finals are coming up :( )

Tevious

Jan 13, 2008, 02:17 PM

Finals? la Maturità?

Anotha idea.... since ww2 was one of the most important events in italian history.... even though the we were on the wrong side, it would be stupid to completely cut it out... so, to include this vitally important historical period we could either use Cadorna as the third leader OR insert a ww2 UU, such as the Macchi fighter (replacing the fighter) or the Ardito (replacing infantry)

Jimmyballz

Mar 28, 2008, 05:45 PM

This is a great Italian Civ..
I love the Alpini, great work!! :)

Can we add on to it? - it would be great to have another leader

For instance, Benito Mussolini (Police State - Fascism)

Gunship - Mangusta
Mechanized Infantry - Dardo
Tank - Ariete
Aircraft Carrier - Cavour

Public Transportation - Pendolino

Any other UB's??

Soduka

Mar 30, 2008, 12:48 PM

Working download link?

Jimmyballz

Mar 31, 2008, 08:32 AM

Yea i cant download either... (pics look great tho)

updated mod coming? or can we download original?
thanks

Jimmyballz

Mar 31, 2008, 07:28 PM

Jimmyballz

Mar 31, 2008, 07:31 PM

Please, could everyone make an effort and try to keep politic comments out of this thread?

Thanks

Hey Throttle-

do you still have that italy mod that you and robo made?? if you do, please post download link. thanks!

KrugerPritz

Apr 01, 2008, 08:06 PM

Because he was a fascist pig. Both Mao and Stalin helped save the world during WWII. Mussolini was on the opposite side. I believe that Italy deserves better than to be represented by a dark and shameful episode of its history. Leaders should be heroes, not villains.

?HERO=GOOD MURDERER AND VILLAINS=BAD MURDERER?
I KNOW MUSSOLINI MADE BAD THINGS IN YOUR COUNTRY BUT MAYBE IF HE'D WON THE WAR, THE OPINION ABOUT HIM NOW COULD BE DIFFERENT...NO? AND THIS DOESN'T MEANS THAT IS A RIGHT THOUGHT.
I THINK MUSSOLINI IS GOOD FOR HISTORY SCENARIO LIKE HITLER, STALIN, MAO, KIM JONG ILL, GENGIS KHAN,POL POT, SADDAM, KHOMEINI, AND EVEN BERLUSCONI (NOOO BERLUSCONI NO!!!!) AND THAT'S ALL! :-)
BYE

KrugerPritz

Apr 01, 2008, 08:54 PM

The following are two real photos: one of the GIS special unit, and one from the current mission in iraq.

and why not "lagunari" ? :) ... Anyway I play Gedemon R.E.D. mod, increasing it by my own day by day, as He didn't upagraded it anymore. I'm surfing the forum in search of new units, cause i don't use only one UU but i'm trying to make all the armies different from each other, as Gedemon began to do. So I'm searching new leaders (I prefer modern), units, MODULAR CIVILIZATIONS and so on. Till i will not able to create units by myself, I hope that some one will create MANGUSTA, ARIETE, PUMA. I thank the one who created CENTAURO!... And I use romans for the italians, Babylon for Iraq, persians for Iran and so on. I'm not happy that leaders don't change their look in the different ages like civIII did, but it could be a good idea that leaders could be different when the game changes era... so we could have Caesar in the ancient time, Vittorio Emanuele or Mussolini in the industrial (or any other) and Berl...NOOOO BERLUSCONI NOOOO!!!! :lol: PLEASE NOT BERLUSCONI AGAIN!!!! :D

KrugerPritz

Apr 01, 2008, 08:57 PM

Inno di Mameli would be better for me... Me too!!! I'd like to have Inno di Mameli for the late period!!!
I was able to do brazilian anthem during an evaluation period of a music program... but it was not enough time for making the italian one :-(

KrugerPritz

Apr 01, 2008, 09:16 PM

The only difference is that other civs like the Germanic tribes, Russia, and others stuck with one name German is a latin name given by Romans: it means brother... germanic = people of brothers, meaning with it that they seemed all exactly alike each other at the eye of the romans... just like the chinese people at our eyes :)
Italian, spanish, portugues, romanian, french, are languages derivated from latin, the roman language!!!
Italics were named the inhabitants of Italy during the Roman age.
After Rome, Italy had different conquerors, but what the cultured classes ever felt was their common origin from Rome. And this also because of the Church's schools, in practice the only schools during the Middle Age.The poor people was only interested to survive, and not interested on who'd be his owner, ever!
The italian anthem tells "Dell'elmo di Scipio s'è cinta la testa" "She (italy) putted on her head the Scipio (the roman general who defeated Annibal in Africa - and for this called Scipio the African) helmet" http://www.quirinale.it/simboli/inno/inno.htm
http://www.quirinale.it/simboli/inno/inno_ascolta.htm
All the anthem is full with references of Rome, telling that Victory is Her slave, telling about the coortes.
The common origin from Rome was the leit motiv (->a word of latin origin as Tzar and Kaiser derivate from Caesar) for the Risorgimento (resurrection... of Rome?) movements. And, I think, especially in Mazzini's and Garibaldi's thoughts.
And is also for this that, after a short period that was first in Torino and then in Firenze with the RE-UNIFICATION made by the Sardegna's Kingdom and the help of Garibaldi, the capital of Italy returned in Rome in 1871 after the conquest of the Church's State!
Italy is what Rome became cause she was defeated by barbarians! I cannot play in the same game Italy with capital in Rome vs Rome with capital in Rome.