Hello!

Brief history: I've played Civ since the beginning (Civ1)
I've always been a Wondermonger.
I've lurked the SG forums here for years; however, I've also been disappointed when the majority of SG games I've read resort towards warmongering.

My Perfect game: Aesthetically pleasing, perfect city placement.
In the many many hours of Civ games I've played, I've yet to achieve this. :lol:

CivIV: I've played stictly Noble so far; either I lose early to Barbarians, or I'm the point leader, but as yet I cannot achieve cultural/diplomatic victories.

Goal for this SG:
1) Spark interest w/ other lurkers
2) Hone decision making
3) Play an interesting builder game without resorting to warmongering to win
4) Challenge skill level.
5) Build Wonders!

If anyone is interested:
Prince level for warlord/noble players.
Cultural, diplomatic, domination win, or TBD (to be determined.)

Essentially, we want to compete with the AI for techs/Wonders without resorting to military rushes.

If there's any interest. let's discuss Civ/leader traits. :)

EDIT:
Joiners so far as I can tell. There's a lot, but that's good.

Luv Muffin
Scowler
Percinho
Sir Toma
Greggo
Liquidated

We'll adhere to Lk's rules if that's okay.

Level: Prince
Map: Large (My PC can handle huge too). If large is not okay, let me know. I've yet to play anything smaller than large.
Map type: Open for discussion. Personally, I love Terra maps.
Leader candidates:
Since we want to build Wonders, but want it to be challenging (eep) let's eliminate Industrous. To that end, though, I think we should consider a Philosophical leader (for the Great People trait)

Saladin -- Arabs
Elizabeth -- English
Frederick -- Germans
Alexander -- Greeks
Peter -- Russians

Alternatively, even though he does have Industrous, Napoleon. But, he does have the Aggressive straight (along with Alexander.)
Here's why: Thinking of doing Raging Barbarians. This will help with the military aspect of the game.

Game setup: No Space victory, no city razing, permanent alliance, culture flip possible after conquest.
Varient: Cannot declare war (but we can press the war if declared on)
Automatic loss: Failure to build Three Gorges Dam.

Still interested?
P.S.: Need to be patched.

***
Ok, standard 48 hours got it, 24 hours played.
See below for starting candidates.

Map type:
Large
Balanced or Terra
Sea level: Low

Turn order:
Blackluck
Liquidated
Luv_Muffin
Scowler
Percinho
Sir Toma
Greggo

Turn order: We each start with 20, then 10 each.

Civ candidates:
Incas -- Financial, Aggressive
Greeks -- Philosophical, Aggressive
Napolean--Industrous, Aggressive
State your preference!

From my private games, Philosophical seems stronger to me than Financial.
The Great People rate can overcome pretty much any other trait IMO.
We'll start Sunday. Patched, and with the Civ choice.

Game leader name will be (what else?) Lurker.
Civ: Greece
Map: Large, balanced, medium sea level, and tropical.

I'll post the initial map either tonight or early tomorrow, then will post the first turn log tomorrow late afternoon early evening.

not really a lurker but I too was stung by original civ. keep in mind, my sleep pattern was stung, not me :lol:


My play style specializes on infrastructure and culture building. If given my own choice in games I don't ever attack other civs.

I have been forcing myself to play games were I must fight just so I can get my mind around how attack/ defense goes. So far so um ugly in that respect but I'm learning.

I can solidly beat noble level peacefully (it's the warlike situations were I suck) so would be up for the next step up in terms of difficulty.. hmm prince?

As for civs I really love cathy for her combination of creative and financial. Those two traits really work well together and cossasks are nice UU's. If wonder building is a must, then an industrious leader would be nice. Ghandi and um qin shi come to mind. Really love the financial trait as commerce can be tailored as the civ requires.

If you are looking for a newer person that loves a peaceful game, can count me in. No need for strict no-war but I have to goad myself to attacks other civs.

I have yet to even come close to a cultural victory on noble, standard maps, normal speed. Not sure if I just do not have the concept of spliting culture to three cities or it's innaitely difficult at that level/map combination of play.

Anyway, I'd love an infrastructure based SG.

Cheers!
-Liq

A bit too sleepy to pick leader traits atm, but industrious sounds like a must for wonder building. I'm also a fairly good builder on noble, but tend to hope everyone else is as peaceful as me.

This usually results in my poor civ being way ahead in tech and way behind in defense and getting attacked by the mongols who're sharing my island (they have the smaller half) and rapidly losing 3 border towns in about 10 turns rite around 1000AD.

Not that I'm bitter. :spank:

I'd like to join,

Greggo

i'd be willing to join.

It'd be my first SG so i hope thats not a problem. I now don't have to reveal the map thanx to the new patch:D

For civ i would say either Qin (chinese) or Mansa Musa (Mali). Both have financial. Qin because of the industrious trait, Mansa because of the spiritual trait and the fact he has an early and good unique unit (skirmisher).

Anyway i'd love to play

EDIT: i have yet to beat the game on Noble but only because i quit after it gets boring (with a revealed map its far too easy) so Prince would be okay for me. (I wooped warlord with Gandhi)

I'd definitely be interested in this sort of game. Long time player, first time for an SG, but this looks like the right game for me. I'm a culture vulture when it comes to civ, so if there's room then sign me up.

Cheers.

I came relatively late to the TBS genre so my first experiences were from playing SMAC, and I found myself gravitating naturally towards the builder factions. The warmongering AI in Civ3 could be unnerving at times, so I never felt quite as comfortable playing it.

I'm currently playing a builder-style game as Peter on Monarch. I'm behind on points, but am now catching up with the AI. I was able to grab an early religion and convert my nearest neighbour (Cyrus), who has been my best buddy throughout the game, protecting me from any immediate threat of invasion and allowing me to build to my heart's content. I now have defensive pacts with him and Mansa Musa and we are just starting the space race.

Monarch is tough for a builder, because the AI races ahead in tech and is able to grab most of the wonders. Peter was given to me as a random leader, but his expansive trait has been useful: + 2 health allowed me to grow my cities effectively and boost production, without unhealthiness becoming an issue.

Making at least one ally (preferably via religious conversion) and counteracting the AI's initial tech sprint are probably the most pressing concerns for a builder at this level. The finance boost from founding a religion allows you to keep the science funding as high as possible, and good relations with others keeps tech trading a viable option (as well as preventing war!). Barbarians can be troublesome, but they can also be helpful if you are careful, promoting your units at regular intervals - good city placement that makes the most of defensive bonuses helps.

Sounds interesting.

I haven't played a SG, so this would be my first.
I have been playing Civ4 on nobel since I've opened the box, so Prince Level for me according to your rules. (*Eeek!*)

I specialize in the "moral victory", a less known about victory condition for [civ4] .
I am amazing (or terrible) with all nations/leaders, so I have no preference.
Not afraid of a good fight, but don't go looking for wars either.

Go Lurkers! :rockon:

It's cool to play a variant game with no wars, but most games don't have that variant. The problem for you is that in almost every game the best route to success is to wage at least one war. Whether you're going for a space race victory, a diplomatic victory, a cultural victory, or whatever, waging at least one war will improve your game. So if there's no variant rule in place to limit wars then going to war at least once is an obvious choice.

Oops, forum ate my initial reply.

See the edit on top.

The varient here Shillen will be cannot declare war, but can wage war if declared.

Sounds pretty straightforward.

Will try a few games with a large map, give old Bonaparte a spin too, just in case we decide to go that way, and give my pc a workout.

Any of the philosophical rulers sound good as well, just looking at the specs of each of them.
* Fredrick... Hmmm, likes universal sufferage, bit of a culture boost (early game bonus), enjoys long walks with his panzers...
* Saladin... Theocratic, camel archers, spiritual, cool looking beard.
* Elizabeth... Financial (cha-ching), free religion, red coat, drives on the wrong side of the road.
* Alexander...Agressive, Heriditary rule, phalanx. Does not play well with others. :king:
* Peter... Expansive, Police State, Cossacks (they just sound cool, don't they?)

Should be fine, I exceed specs... but you know how things went pre-patch. ;)

Whatever map size, style is groovy with me. I'll just adapt.
Raging Barbarians, huh? :mad:
Anything else, like our attacks have to be made with settlers or something? :crazyeye:
Just kidding, I'm down with it. :thumbsup:

I second raging barbs... those are fun.

I'll stand by my financial preferance as it by far my favorite so far. The secondary traits all work well with financial such that anything from agressive to spiritual is fine. Not a big fan of organized for low difficulty games as civic costs don't really get crippling until monarch +. I do not hate on organized, I just feel the other traits are more useful at prince or lower.

As for maps, I normally play standard sized but large is fine (can run huge as well np but well they are huge!). Not a big fan of the terra maps but sometimes bog standard continents really place one or two civs in a really bad position.

Like the varient restrictions. I've been getting into the habit of turning off space race victories as it was an 'unfun' way to finish a game. Might be different post 1.09 patch but holidays limiting civ time.

Running patched and solid.. haven't crashed since 1.09 and could even load an old save that I would stall on loading, 1.00 release. That was my old '1.00 patch litmus test' save, hope I don;t need a new one for 1.09 :lol:

Cheers!
-Liq

I like the finacial trait, too.
I had a game with Catherine where I managed to found Judaism. I've never seen this, but it spread like wildfire: Every turn, "Judaism spreads to..."

Half the world had it as their state religion in the early A.D.'s. That, with coastal cities and cottages, Catherine had 3500 gp in her war chest , and was earning nearly 200 gpt at 100% science before the advent of marketplaces. It was wild. Course, I had a really good map. Too bad I didn't get Pyramids heh. Cha'ching!

At any rate, I'm thinking the dowdy Elizabeth might be a good choice here as finacial/philo have a pretty good synergy. Or maybe the Incas with their early UU, aggresive trait and mysticism starting tech which might allow us to go for Stonehenge/Parthenon (forgoing my choice of philosophical.)

I've never played raging barbs, but on some maps I've been over run with barbs on normal. Having strong early military units seems as if might come in handy (I've lost plenty of warriors to lions and bears!)

Luv_Muffin: There's a varient: Settlers must be sent out alone! :eek:
Kidding!

not really a lurker but I too was stung by original civ. keep in mind, my sleep pattern was stung, not me :lol:


My play style specializes on infrastructure and culture building. If given my own choice in games I don't ever attack other civs.

I have been forcing myself to play games were I must fight just so I can get my mind around how attack/ defense goes. So far so um ugly in that respect but I'm learning.

I can solidly beat noble level peacefully (it's the warlike situations were I suck) so would be up for the next step up in terms of difficulty.. hmm prince?

As for civs I really love cathy for her combination of creative and financial. Those two traits really work well together and cossasks are nice UU's. If wonder building is a must, then an industrious leader would be nice. Ghandi and um qin shi come to mind. Really love the financial trait as commerce can be tailored as the civ requires.

If you are looking for a newer person that loves a peaceful game, can count me in. No need for strict no-war but I have to goad myself to attacks other civs.

I have yet to even come close to a cultural victory on noble, standard maps, normal speed. Not sure if I just do not have the concept of spliting culture to three cities or it's innaitely difficult at that level/map combination of play.

Anyway, I'd love an infrastructure based SG.
Cheers!
-Liq

Sorry about the giant quote but it was the only way i could reply to the thread. My internet is seriously screwed up at the moment but should be okay in a few days. If you start the game and my turn comes around and my internet is still screwed then just skip me.

I would disagree about a Philo/Fin leader because they don't work well together. for a financial leader you want to build cottages for food while for a philosophical leader you would want farms for food so you can support specailists. still its your choice

I've not had a chance to patch the game yet, but I'll be doing so this weekend. I'll give the PC a run out on a large map to make sure it can handle things. Have had no problems so far, but I'll reserve final judgement until I've tested the patch for myself.

As regards the traits, if we're looking at raging barbarians then I'd throw in my hat for an agressive leader. I've been guilty recently of underdefending and then lost half my civ to a sneak attack! :cry: Looking at luv_muffin's analysis, I'd say Alexander sounds good. Defensive UU looks good. However, I think you'll find that it's everybody else that drives on the wrong side of the road! ;)

Haven't played above noble yet, but I think I'm ready to step up a level now. Never played a Terra either, but it sounds....challenging. I'm a big fan of archipelagos personally, but whichever map type is good with me.

Are we waiting for the "un-patched" to get set-up?
Once Blackluck is ready to start, we should be good to go, right?
Whoever thinks Blackluck should start tonight, say aye!
*Aye* :salute: Heh heh. (*Teasing*)
Order of play is like it is written at the top of the thread? And have we decided who many turns/per player we will be using?

I've been pearl harbored myself, Percinho. I'll try to keep an eye on the info screen, and keep our military ranking at a reasonable level. Hate it when the AI crashes my wonder-building parties. You and I can remind each other about our traumatic experiences from un-invited armies messing with us.

Ok, hello again. :)

I guess this means we should get started, eh?

Having had my read end handed to me on numerous games between barbs and militristic civs, and, seeing as we are doing raging, here are the three candidates:

Incas - Finacial, Aggressive
Greeks -- Philosophical, Aggressive
Napolean-- Industrous, Aggressive

Let me set the turn order above.

Thanks again for the interest!
I'm thinking we'll start Sunday.
See the original post!

Extra post here, see top!

I vote:

1. Napolean-- Industrous, Aggressive
2. Greeks -- Philosophical, Aggressive
3. Incas - Finacial, Aggressive

Unless of course we decide not to use industrious, in which case greece first.

I'm patched and looking forward to start.

Greggo

Sir Toma
I would disagree about a Philo/Fin leader because they don't work well together. for a financial leader you want to build cottages for food while for a philosophical leader you would want farms for food so you can support specailists. still its your choice


I agree... where did I bring up financial and phil though?

My favorite leader is cathrine who is creative and financial.... I never once mentioned phil in that post.... did I? :confused: As for phil itself, I have yet to fully understand the art of poping out great people so I kinda leave out the phil trait for now. Your post confuses me though. :)

I'm easy about leaders, other than skipping organized for prince level as I stated before. that leaves out rome.

I HATE starting games next to the incas so I'm biased there.

If we are skipping industrous then greece sounds good.

My choices:
1. Inca
2. Napolean
3. Greek (Rats! That phalanx looks so much better than the others UU's)

Whatever, I'm not going to stress about this. I'll be happy playing whatever is decided. I'll be thinking more about what the terrain is going to look like once we start the game. If we start on a tundra tile... :lol:

Tough decision.

*ponders*

Guess we'll go Greece ... primarily for the spear to guard against the raging barbs, and to protect against early aggressors.

I'll post the starting position later tonight or early tomorrow.

Early tech decision will be based on how the map looks.
Good luck all!

well shoot for a starting religion or just grab a later one... if you are on rivers for I vote going for hinduism but well we'll see.

keep in mind we need spears FAST for when the barbs start flowing in. Greese owns for that very reason... pray for the bronze!

Cheers!
-Liq

Greece is the word. :king:

Go get 'em, boss. :dance:

Greece is the word? Dating yourself there Luv_Muffin :lol:


Here we go!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/fbitt/start.jpg

Turn 1:
Here's our start. Lots of river plains.
I don't want to lose an extra turn moving to the hill or the forest, so I start where I am.
Athens founded.

Turn 2: I choose mining as our first tech to get to bronze working. We're not on a coast so we can't take advantage of our fishing trait.

Keep the city working the flood plain. Mining due in 11, growth in 10. Dial up a warrior.

Turns 3-7:
Explore, pop our first goody hut, we get a scout.

Turn 9: Found a lion, move scout to forested hill, fortify. He survives.

Turn 11: Mining comes in. Bronze working in 21, or Mysticism in 10.
I decide to go for Mysticism in case we want to try for a religion, as well obelisks should we need early culture; it's faster, and we won't have a worker within 21 turns to take advantage of any copper. A balanced map ensures copper close by; I think we have time to go for Mysticism then bronze working (I hope!)

Turn 13: Second Northern scout finds a lion, red lines but survives. There's another lion nearby too.

Turns 14-20:
Scouts heal, Athens produces warrior, choose another warrior. I send our warrior to a forested hill to clear out some more fog, he meets a lion and loses some health. He's healing.

Southern Scout has some bad terrain: End turn on a hill, fortify but a lion still kills him. :cry:

Northern scout is still a alive.

Mysticism due in 1.

Here's a picture of the known land:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/fbitt/resourceview.jpg

Good news, there's stone and lots of ocean resources to our south.
Athens looks like it can turn into a powerhouse city, with plenty of floodplains and hills. Health is going to be a concern.
It's growing very fast ...

Here's Athens:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/fbitt/athens1.jpg
A note on my first SG: It's really hard keeping track of turns!
Looks like I need to crop those pics in the future.

Turn order:
Blackluck
Liquidated -- Up
Luv_Muffin -- On deck
Scowler
Percinho
Sir Toma
Greggo


And the save:105371

oh man hehe I was goofing off with a 8 on 1 against me game + furious barbs, man I got blasted fast :lol:

Wasn;t expecting to be up so soon as is it's almost 6 am in the morning. I'll pass my turn to 3rd place as work is till late tonight go for it love muf!

I'll be back on at 9 pm pst and see no reason to stall this start so have at it please.

Again I am sorry I missed start, I checked up on thread 2 hours ago and just assumed I am the only 'loser' that lives his days til the sun comes up (omg quickly back to the coffin!) I use the term loser so very very loosely =) no insults intended!!

oh I see a 520am post... yes Bluck we are of the same cloth it would appear unless you get up at 8 am which I cringe even thinking about. Sun light is baaaaaad.

let me stress those barbs are ugly ugly in a fun way, so a fast settler is most likely a dead settler - it needs heavy escorts.

From my personal experience playing raging barbs (so much fun) medics are absolutely required to fend off the endless waves.

Agressive really helps here as the free 10% strength is not just a free exp level, it's exta no strings attached 0 exp level exp. By this I mean a barracks alone nets you a free promotion that is open to a toon normally only after spending their first promotion to open the real choices that determine the unit's role.

Keep in mind archers and mounted units do not get the free 10% so warriors and phalinxes are generally better choices first off than archers.

I would set up a barracks fast and pump out 6 or so warriors that are +10% strength innate + medic one... all these guys have to do do is fend off gimp warrior barbs at start and get 2nd level medic then rush them into the safety of a town. Keep those gimp ass medic warriors as medic 2's and watch as they are the absolute last unit to ever get attacked.:D

so make extra warriors once we get a barracks running and exp them a fight to get that much needed medic 2 by
patroling them into harm's way. Keep in mind these units are cheap as dirt so if one in 3 live to prmote to medic 2 we are gold.

If we can get a medic 2 warrior for every city we plan on having that's a good start. Mosr to perma camp the critical resources is a must.

Barbs have serious difficulty getting to the sea based resources so those enjoy a measure of immunity farms and pastures never get.

For resource/worker protection, a phalinx with medic one is a nice self healer that can fend off early attacks easily.. use their first promotion to get 25% to melee as axemen are their worst enemy for an all around good unit.

Good start location btw nice river plains and good outlying areas. edit in a sec , gonna post this then make a dreaded dot map.

again pass to love muf if you can get this this game in an awake manner before 8pm pst.

Cheers!
-Liq

ok a map before I fall asleep

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

keep in mind that we will suffer insane number of barbs such that as bullet proof a trade network as possible is preffered.

by this I mean, the path that requires the least amount of sentrys to keep the spice flowing.. so to speak.

In a perfect world we could expand south at start but realism dictates we close off the north asap, the areas we have no info about...

The 3 south cities are for the least overlap with the most resource coverage, plus a costal local that includes a sea based food source... those need to be exploited first as they are the most secure form of food.

The yellow dot location is chosen as prime since Athens iitself is not costal (land o rivers is great nonetheless). The river path extends only 2 spaces from yellow such that a wide network of roads that connect from yellow over to the river is all the pillage prone yardage we need to protect.

Therefore a redundant (as in no one space is required to matain trade connection) system allows us to place less stress on logistical guards.

once the link from yellow to athens is established we can maintain trade by linking up costal cities with sailing tech.

Green dot is the only square we can gain that fish resource and it also is a cheap way to clear that lone jungle square.

For first city I would try and scout nw a bit more and see if there aren;t any fish hanging around that coast. Ideally pinning the NW and NE cloast lines would seal off our start area real well but I'm not sure how realistic a goal that is.

early units we need..

Archers + citiy garrison for permanent city duty for established cities... not for escort. Hilltop resource protection might be worth it but keep in mind only melee and gunpowder units get the free 10% strength. Use archers sparingly as they do not play into our strength as much as speamen do..

spearmen (phalinx) for escorts. Cannot stress how powerful these units are, their arch nemisis are axemen so +25% vs melee is good as is medic for minimal resource guard. Back these units up with axemen or horse archers and you are golden.

Horse archers for reserves.. these units can generally take out any ground unit other (immunity to first fire = dead archers) than spearmen and move fast. Have a few around centrally and they can jump to where we need the firepower the most. Not a big fan of chariots in that they are obsolete by the time you get horses hooked up for the most part, 4 strength is just not enough to make a dent against archers and spearmen.

warriors as medics (spam them and see if we cannot get an army of cheap medic 2's)

axemen to back up phalinxes if we see mass axemen coming our way.

seriously about to fall over as the sun comes up.

if you read this love muff.. go for it. I'll be back 9 pm pst.

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquid, you have 48 hours to 'get it', so no need to skip. :)
I was up at 6:30 EST. Sad on a weekend, I know. I actually played 20 turns then realized I started the game on Noble lol.

Excellent thoughts on getting up a protective trade network.
Pink (purple?) dot is going to have food issues long term, but we do need that stone if we're going to have any shot at any early wonders.
We can back fill up towards Athens afterwards.

There's a surviving scout North. We seem to be short on resources (happy). Already there are a lot of animals about. I don't think the Scout will live much longer. Also, we're not having much luck finding any huts. Some cash before we start expanding would certainly help. I figured the first warrior could clear out the fog to the east of Athens and keep it lit up to hopefully keep Athens clear of barbs.

After Athens hits three growth might want to MM it to build warriors more quickly.

For religion, I don't think any have been founded yet, which means we have a shot at Hindu. Monothesism (Judasiam) + writing I think also allows Theocracy. Early religion can be good if it spreads to nearby Civs. Keeps them happy with us. I've usually been able to keep nearby aggressive civs at bay this way. However, we dont know who are neighbors are -- Cathy, Monty and Tokejowa (Japanese) can be awfully irritating if they don't like you.

Liq does has 48 hours, so I'll let him play his turn.
You were right boss, thanks for pointing that out.
I just got so excited. Heh heh.

Good luck, Liq. Hope you had a good day at work. [pimp]

Sir Toma



I agree... where did I bring up financial and phil though?

My favorite leader is cathrine who is creative and financial.... I never once mentioned phil in that post.... did I? :confused: As for phil itself, I have yet to fully understand the art of poping out great people so I kinda leave out the phil trait for now. Your post confuses me though. :)

I'm easy about leaders, other than skipping organized for prince level as I stated before. that leaves out rome.

I HATE starting games next to the incas so I'm biased there.

If we are skipping industrous then greece sounds good.

Sorry what i said had nothing to do with your post. My internet was screwing up so the only way i could post was by a quote. sorry for confusing you.

no prob sir toma.

ok I got it but well none of the other SG's have an issue with 5 rounds a day soooo I left the option over.

have it now will ponder it deeply. IMO we MUST grab NW asap to help block peeps coming into our area. a fast settler is a dead settler though so hmm...

ok well work on it now, and nope, work sucked! :lol:

Keep in mind also that civil service is a critical tech for us as we can string farms along over to pink dot to help with food later. But yes we need that stone.

reviewing how many turns I get, thinking 20 but will verify.

Cheers!
-Liq

Gonna edit this into a real post. with bold entries and screens I'm getting it out now since I think muffin is online now.


3160 BC Ok see one turn on mystisim and no one's founded bud yet.. hmm ok I'll make a run for hindu but if someone gets it before we do I switch to bronze working. balanced map so we must make sure we fill our start area for maximum coverage of resources.

Growth to 3 in 2 turns then can work the grapes for the hammer and 2 commerce.

can move the scouts so to their death they go!

ooooo warriors spots a goodie hut east of the city... liq luckTM don;t fail me now!



(1)3120 BC ug meet a mongolians (gengis) scout at the healing scout. mys finishes see poly is 18 turns.... can speed that up next turn... go for poly sigh. get a map from the hut... whole lotta nothing to the NE resource wise but that river Athns is on is LONG.



(2)3080 BC scout heals lets see how long he lives, goal is uncover NW for a good home. Athen hits size three I work the grapes for the extra commerce.



(3)3040 BC buddism is founded in a distant land.... hmm. great meet a japanese warrior in the NE. we have some really nice neighbors!!! wow NW looks sweet.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/northwest.jpg

planting a city at the red dot looks liek a nice great people town. low production so it'll need to keep those forests.



(4)2960 BC Warrior is done at athens.. decisions... Athens is due to grow in 17, a settler takes 30 and worker takes 18 since I have commerce going full speed. A worker stalls growth and has nothing to do really + no protection so pass there. A barracks is 15 meaning stall 2 turns and gain 4 population in athens, a barracks will be needed sooner rather than later.... barracks it is.

Move the warrior to scout a tad bit north of town - he will not stray far. Pulling the NW warrior south to fill in the blanks on the coast.



(5)2990 BC no news is good news. 11 turns on poly so we'll know my round if we snag hin.. imo jud is not worth wasting time on if we miss hindu as it will stall much needed wartime techs. updated screen of NW, scout living a long time. Warrior in NE see's a bear... ekk will avoid it. or try.



(6)2880 BC bah bear goes right for NE war... get him to wooded hills for the win. NW scouts land next to evil wolves... he's jungled tho so maybe... oo the warrior see's a goodie hut in the south but the mongol scout is close.. if he doesn;t go south we may grab it.



(7)2840 BC nope, ghengis grabs the hut and gets a warrior. good news tho! I saved money on my...er no! both the warrior and scout lived. promoting wrrior to medic 1. wrrior2 is 4 turns from athens he got a nice hill top view going and he's heading back. The scout got woodsman 1 since it's all jungle up here and keeps moving as he;s gonna die soon enough.



(8)2800 BC 8 turns til poly and not a global peep since bud was founded. The NE is nearly done, the NW scout turned the corner into more wolves so he's likely dead.



(9)2760 BC hmm no fights... scout lives! news at 11! he pushes his luck to reveal more of the coast line. mass fun.



(10)2720 BC omg! the scout WINS! left at .4 hp one more square!!! and find um someone's town.. light blue looking, is that a greece clone? we need to secure NW like soon. Ne warrior is filling in last of coast east of athens and will head back.



(11)2680 BC hmm ok persia is our guest to the NW pray he expands northward! No religion shown yet from the 3 people we've met. Warrior2 is back in town and will stay there! lions prowling south good warrior medic bait! more mass fun!



(12)2640 BC Ok so warrior2 is back in athens and started fortifying. The medic warrior is heading back home as well... no point losing him. scout is still moving as he's dead meat once barbs pop. poly in 4!!



(13)2600 BC No news is GOOD news!



(14)2560 BC Bismark says HI. he doesn;t have bud either... All we need is isabel to show up to complete our round of hostile religious nuts. omg the scout still lives.



(15)2520 BC still no global messages... oh MAN Cyrus is Crammed in a corner. This is not good. we's gonna expand east prolly.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/Persans.jpg




(16)2480 BC **SCORE!**
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/Score.jpg

I leave us with no religion to avoid pissing off people and avoid a turn of anarchy. switch to bronze working as we MUST secure our metal supply asap. Glad our bid for hinduism worked. Let focus on expanding now..

Monkey with production to net us 3 turns for barracks and size 4 athens... lost 3 turns on bronze working(18 to 21 turns) so will switch back on the grapes at size 4.



(17)2440 BC Scout go pushed over 4 spaces from cyrus culture bounce, works well as I head NW away from the wolves. INTO some effing lions... oh man this scout is well cooked hahaha.



(18)2400 BC ***RIP scout***. T'was a good lad he was.

Athens now has the medic scout inside and the plain jane warrior.



(19)2360 BC barracks done. Moving to settler in um lets see, yeah 22 turns! computer decided to work all 4 flood plains I tend to agree... bronze working is down to 16 turns. it was that or 25 turns on settler and 14 on bronze... see no reason to go that way.

We went from 2 culture a turn to 7 from snagging hinduism.



(20)2320 BC Fortify medic in athens, there's a lion in the south we can get free exp on a barracks made warriors would get their second promotion from it.




Ok well hope I didn't EFF us up too bad. snagged hindu and lost the poor scout at very end. Gained a medic warrior and secured a barracks in athens plus cleared a bunch of the fog. Got us that much closer to a flood of barbs!

Turn order:
Blackluck
Liquidated
Luv_Muffin
Scowler
Percinho
Sir Toma
Greggo

You are up Luv Muf!

Cheers!
-Liq!!! (no liquids here other than cough syrip!)

Good job, Liq!
Saving.... will take a look at the map...
Northwest sounds fun.
Great, Persians and Greeks were the best of friends, weren't they?
Thanks for the barracks, and the religion.
I think my turn will be pocketing bronzeworking that you started, and then getting start working on some skills for future workers.
That river is just begging to be farmed. A road here or there may come in handy too.

:)

*About that river... it's a monster. Too bad we can't put a galley on it.

Morning all, just a quick note to say I'm patched and running. Looking forward to trashing all your good work with some poor early decisions...... ;)

man settler in 22 kinda leaves you out. Imo get it going then build a warrior or 2 to back up athens and settler... unless bronze working shows up something else... imo head for the red dot... it's a realistic land grab and secures those hills and desert... one of those two deserts is gonna have our oil square.

seriously no point making a worker for a bit cause the cost to keep anything it builds it will bankrupt us if we do not have fast moving horse archers..

think about plunking a city on our bronze/iron wherever they may be... ton easier to guard it that way.

Btw I'm now officially addicted to SG's. Just the act of doing the writeup alone really makes me stop and question why I'm doing something. Also seeing how others play in the same game is not only educational, it's FUN!

omg a few scant days before I unveil my custom avitar! phear!

Cheers!
-Liq

(1) 2280 BC. Nothing happening. That lion to our south is wounded.
Since I have nothing better to do ATM, I am taking our second Warrior
out for a stroll. Heading south, it won't be a fair fight so why miss
the opportunity for free xp?

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1324/turn118jz.jpg

(2) 2240 BC. Ghengis starts moving his warrior scout north, away from
our capitol. Not much else going on.

(3) 2200 BC. More of the same. It's quiet, almost too quiet.
Closing in on the lion... (1.5/2 strength now)
Lion in the desert, Warrior with combat one, in the trees.
Would be nice if he were to attack now, wouldn't it? Here kitty kitty...

(4)2160 BC. Warrior wins, 'natch. Will heal him for two turns in the bush.
Maybe I can bag some more easy pickings around our town, but playing
this safe. Don't want to lose half our army out of bad luck.
(Stay away, you bears!)
Ghengis's warrior now heads back east, along river. Not sure if he knows
what he's doing.

(5) 2120 BC. Ghengis's scout heading back north. I think he's lost.
Not much else for me to do now... it's all good. Better than dealing
with a drama!

(6) 2080 BC. Borders of Athens expand! Doesn't sound exciting,...
but you weren't there man. :cooool:
Moving the warrior to hills on the east, see what I can see.
In case you were counting; Bronzeworking due in nine.

(7) 2040 BC. Sure is quiet... Warrior on the hills (keeping to defensive
terrain)

(8) 2000 BC. Looks like panthers to our far north.
Not going to be chasing anything that far away.
See nothing to our immediate south.

(9) 1975 BC. Thucydides says we are the second largest civilization in
the world. Interesting. Cyrus is #3. Take that, Persia! Some unknown is
at number one. *shrugs*
Still nobody for our warrior to whack. In time...

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3305/turn128hl.jpg

(10) 1950 BC. Look at that, a lion has shown up! Good timing.
Our warrior needs one more Xp for
his next promotion, and we are standing on a wooded hill.
Hope that lion attacks me again.
I fortify myself, hope he falls into my trap.

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2088/turn138gb.jpg

(11) 1925 BC. Lion disappeared, guess he didn't like the odds.
Figure I may as well wait, maybe he'll come back. Rather catch him
in the open, than the other way around.. just in case, of course.

(12) 1900 BC. Khan adopts Slavery. Ghengis has bronzeworking, just as long
as it's us with the copper, we're all good.
Our Bronzeworking will be done in three turns.
Still no sign of where that cat went. Here kitty kitty...

(13) 1875 BC. Hunting for that lion. Will turn back to Capitol if I
don't see him next turn.

(14) 1850 BC. Found the lion in the trees. I'm in the bush too, so if he attacks
we should get a promotion out of this. Bronzeworking due next turn!

(15) 1825 BC. Bronzeworking finished, finally! Adopted Slavery, Khan will
like that. Start learning about the wheel. We are going to need roads
if we ever want to connect our resources, and our continent is so open,
walking across it takes too long.

Lion ran into the open, so I dropped him. Taking our Warrior home now.
There seems to be copper near (just NW of) our capitol. Nice.

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/571/turn143xa.jpg

(16) 1800 BC. Promote our Warrior to Medic 1. More lions south of the stone
resource, but I have to head north to babysit that settler.
Later cats, was nice. If they follow me, maybe I'll take a whack at em.

(17) 1775 BC. More lions, due south of Athens. Too far away for concern,
but pointing out that there are more barbarians out there now.
Keep on your toes, Scowler.

(18) 1750 BC. Lions aren't getting any closer. Must be getting smarter.
Almost back at Athens now with our second Medic Warrior.

(19) 1725 BC. Just moving our warrior.

(20) 1700 BC. Warrior back in Athens. Settler due in two.
The wheel will be ours in five.

* Options wide open for Scowler now.

I marked what seems to be a decent location for our copper mine with
the cinnamon roll like icon. Port city, hills, can drag farms south
from the river to the north. (Should get a city north of the copper
mine too, and open up a "Red Lobster" with the fish & clam resources.)

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6592/turn157bt.jpg

An overview of our continent

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/9528/turn162qu.jpg

A peek inside Athens. Not a lot has changed.

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/1404/turn176ua.jpg

Turn order:
Blackluck
Liquidated
Luv_Muffin
Scowler -- Up
Percinho -- On Deck
Sir Toma
Greggo

wow... uh boring! haha :goodjob:

imo we WANT that fishy in the water how about we plunk a settler down on top of that jungle just south of the copper and leave the red dot same place as always.

Camping on the copper itself looks nice but I hate to lose the free production... landing the city next door to the copper isn't so bad as it can be baby sat easily. Plus it's another free jungle remove and a costal city to boot.

I'm thinking grab red dot first to block expansion from the persians.. and bum rush a setler to jungle below copper to secure it.

oh also on further goofing with raging barbs, I've found that the best way to use workers with barbs all over is stack them with 2 space move guards and dog pile them in linked stacks of 5. workers can gang up on improvements and this lowers the total number of escorts required to keep them alive.

oh lookie 5 am again! go figure!

Cheers!
-Liq

Got it, but I probably won't be able to play through it until this evening.
Comments: Athens is now at maximum health, so we need to think about hooking up the wheat and pigs. We have plenty of food to spare so going unhealthy is not a big deal at the moment, but we should plan ahead. I suggest building a couple more warriors after the settler (we can pump them out in 4-5 turns) and then getting a worker.

I think 1 square N of the copper is a better location. If we are further N we lose a square to the mountain, plus the city will be slightly more unhealthy at start (and also slightly restricts our options for further cities to the N). Further south and we overlap with Athens - I don't think we can justify that?

So I propose:
Finish settler and produce warriors and worker
Finish Wheel and start Agriculture (and then?)
Move NW and grab copper site

Comments/criticisms?

I agree with one tile North of the copper; otherwise too much overlap with Athens.

Also agreed on the build queue; might want to think of working the luxury resource tile; it's less food but 2 gp and a hammer. We're going to have to cap Athens at 5 else it will go unhappy. We might want to consider declaring Hindu so we can build a temple, as there are no nearby happiness resources we can use for some time.

Another thing to consider is dropping to 90% science for a time to build up at least a hint of a treasury. We've had terrible luck with the huts, and having some sort of gold for emergency upgrades or whatnot would make me feel better.

After agriculture, it appears sailing or animal husbandry? Sailing for light houses, enabling us to to work the ocean tiles for commerce, husbandry to reveal horses + work more healthy tiles. It's going to be some time before we can hook up the stone to the south, allowing us to hold off masonry for a bit. With our lack of treasury, I have a feeling we're going to be running science pretty low to keep up with expansion and unit upkeep. It looks like we're not going to be able to get either Oracle or Stonehedge. I would put a priority on the Great Library and maybe Pyramids for the free Great People. Without any marble the Parthenon will be tough.

P.S. Enjoyed your turn log LuvMuffin:goodjob:

I couldn't wait to play my turn, so the full (and very gory) details will be added momentarily...

(01) 1675BC: A warrior from Genghis appears to our north, and one of Bismarck’s scouts to the south-east. I start moving a warrior to the NW to act as escort for the settler.
(02) 1650BC: Settler sets off. Warriors queued at Athens.
(03) 1625BC: Genghis turns back at our borders
(04) 1600BC: Sparta founded – work begins on a warrior
(05) 1575BC: Start Archery while we are waiting for the worker to be produced. Wolves to the SW of Athens
(06) 1550BC: Nothing much. Bismarck’s scout has moved to our S, near where the wolves were.
(07) 1525BC: Warrior completes at Athens. Decide to build worker right away as the area seems fairly safe for the moment.
(08) 1500BC: Yikes! I spoke too soon! THREE separate barbarian warriors appear out of the mist, to the NE, E, and SE of Athens. Switch back to warrior and maximize hammers: due in 5.
(09) 1475BC: Barbarians move closer
(10) 1450BC: ANOTHER barbarian warrior appears to the far N. The first of the other bands is ready to attack…
(11) 1425BC: First barbarian attacks and we defeat him (1.6/2). A FIFTH barbarian appears in the distance…
(12) 1400BC: Two warriors attack and we defeat them both. One of ours gains a promotion, and I give him shock. Unfortunately, another TWO warriors appear on the horizon to replace the ones we killed…
(13) 1375BC: Barbarians come closer…
(14) 1350BC: Archery comes in: I start Agriculture in the hope that we will be able to build a worker one day. Warrior ready at Athens. Another barbarian appears to the north of Sparta! Fortunately, a second warrior will be ready there by the time he arrives. Even so, I’m starting to get a little scared!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Civ4ScreenShot00025.JPG

(15) 1325BC: Barbarian attacks and is defeated!
(16) 1300BC: Two barbarians attack Athens, while another assaults Sparta. We manage to fend them all off.
(17) 1275BC: Two barbarians attack and we defeat them both! There is now only one half-strength barbarian far to the south, so I switch back to the worker (due in 12).
(18) 1250BC: Oh come on! Now three more barbarians have appeared. Raging indeed!
(19) 1225BC: The first barbarian archer appears to the north, stacked with another warrior!
(20) 1200BC: Another two assaults, one at Athens, one at Sparta, and once again our glorious armies are victorious! I promote one warrior to shock and another to cover (now that barbarian archers have started to appear).

Current state of play:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Civ4ScreenShot00042.JPG

Sorry I couldn't do more building/research, but I kind of had my hands full...:hammer:

I take it you've never seen raging barbs lol?

medics are a MUST honestly the waves are endless in a way that no civ based attack can muster.

for towns an archer with 3 levels of city garrison (it comes fast) backed up by a medic 2 warrior and a wall will last long enough for us to get on our feet with regards to getting phalinxes and horse archers up. getting a seconf archer up in exp is hard to do cause well it'll never get to fight unless you bait the barbs to attack it alone.

Anyway it'll be raining barbs from here on out. love that option:crazyeye:

Cheers!
-Liq

No, I don't normally bother with raging barbs, so I'd forgotten how vicious they can be! But I think we've eased into some sort of rhythm now, so hopefully, we can get on with our development.

:eek:

Whose bright idea was it to having raging barbs? :crazyeye:

Ghengis must be getting hammered hard right about now (ever notice the point leader always attracts the barbarian attention?). That's what Ghengis needs ... lots of unit promotions.

This is going to be interesting.

Go Greek army! :hammer:

(Btw, read this at work ... not a good idea, could barely stifle the laughter heh)

Yowzers! Not kidding on the Raging setting, are they!

Will pick up from home tonight and play on. Think it may be a bit of a rearguard action early doors!

Was wondering for a second if they were pillaging, but then realised that wasn't really an option for them! :lol:

Was wondering for a second if they were pillaging, but then realised that wasn't really an option for them! :lol:

*Giggles*

Nice turn Scowler.
I had to go look for my Barbarians, you got yours delivered to your doorstep.
:lol:
Nice friends you made. I bet Percinho will be looking forward to meeting all your new playmates.
I wonder just how many barbs can possibly be left in our part of the continent.
I think you fought them all!

Games moving along nicely now :)

[1] 1200 start expecting to fight a defensive game for a while. Agriculture in 4, but no sign of a settler to follow….. Our valiant warrior wins against a barb warrior. One more on our doorstep though, and an archer and warrior on the way.

[2] 1175 – Thought I’d sit and be attacked again… but in a strange twist, the warrior who was SW of the city turns round instead of attacking! The might of the erm….mighty… Greeks must now be legendary. Unfortunately, the 4 barbs coming from the N are all still advancing.

[3] 1150 – Oh. He just decided to turn round to shout to his mates, two of whom are advancing with him. There’s now 5 from the North. Our first archer was trained, so I thought I’d produce……another one! Could be in for a rough ride! Just about to be attacked by two warriors and an archer!

[4] 1125 – Trouble at mill! Sparta lost a warrior to an archer. There’s now just one warrior left, but the archer they will attack with only has 0.4 left. I’ve put everything on production, so we should grab an archer before anyone else reaches us. Animal Husbandry was researched, so I’ve popped it onto masonry to try and grab some walls. I think we need to try to keep our cities!

[5] 1100 – ARGH!!! The archer was victorious and we’ve lost Sparta. :cry: It was 57.5% towards us, but to no avail. I'm enjoying my first SG game! :crazyeye: Will hold off the 5 barbs currently heading for us, whilst letting them build up Sparta until we’re ready to take it back.

[6] 1075 – [9] 1000 – Interesting developments. It may be because we’re now down to fourth in the rankings, but the barbs seem to have become bored with us and turned around to fight someone unknown! Oh joy, oh rapture! Will switch to worker in a moment, and get some improvements going.

[10] 980 – [11] 960 – Darn it, there’s a couple who are still up for the rumble. We now have two archers though, so I’ve switched to a worker and hopefully we can eventually get something going. We’ve not got enough offense to take Sparta back, and I don’t think we will for a while.

[12] 940 – [13] – 920 – Well, another Archer and Warrior defeated and we’re racking up the experience points, but not much else. Worker will not be ready on my shift, but I’d suggest a double unit escort. I’m not looking forward to them barbs when they come with bigger units!

[14] 900 – [15] – 880 – Two more turns, two more barbs on their way! Just warriors though, should be no hassle. Will have Masonry shortly. Going to switch to some more worker-friendly sciences.

[16] 860 – [17] 840 – Barbs vanquished, now heading towards Animal Husbandry. It’d be nice if we had horses. I’ll not rest until Sparta is recovered!

[18] 820 – [20] 780 – There’s more barbs on the way, but a worker’s not far off either. I guess we’ll have to take th plunge at some point.

Well, not the greatest of turns I'm afraid! You'll have to tidy up after me, but it's all part of the challenge eh! ;) I'm off for a swift pint or so to drown my sorrows! I'll look forward to seeing how you can work it from here all.

Oh, I would post a screen shot here, but I'm not sure how to :blush: so I'll link you to a jpg. Oh, and it's a really badly done one in paint, but I'm pretty sure that being a PS expert was not part of the sign-up criteria! ;)

Sparta is down! I repeat, Sparta is down! :aargh:

Sir Toma, you know what to do. :ar15:

Poor Percinho. :( It happens, no worries. ;)

"Doctor, our patient Percinho is suffering from severe combat stress!"
"Quick nurse, give him two pints of guinness, stat!"
"But doctor...."
"Move it nurse! Oh no, were losing him... Code Red, Code Red! 100 CC's of Tequilla, this is gonna be close..."

Ouch. That's some bad luck there.

Sparta had our bronze. :sad:


I've never used chariots but we might need to now!
Sir Toma has his worked cut out for him.
Ghengis looks to be doing well. That can't be good.

Turn order:
Blackluck
Liquidated
Luv_Muffin
Scowler
Percinho
Sir Toma -- Up (assume you're still interested?)
Greggo -- On deck (also assuming interest.)

(To post a pic, click on the icon with the mountain (insert image) then paste the host URL.)

edit: Luv Muffin you crack me up :lol:

Bad luck Percinho, but what a great report :goodjob:

Sparta had our bronze. :sad:

For some reason I read this as "Sparta had our booze"! :crazyeye:

We'd better not let those barbarians get too comfortable in there or we will never get any rest. As soon as Sparta hits size 2 we should think about taking it back - especially since one of the AIs might also be tempted to capture it (and our bronze).

Hi guys
Yes i am still interested however i still have someproblems with my internet and can only post from school. I can't download the save:sad:

I have a few questions
1. can u skip me untill december 1
2. how do you upload a save (need to know) and pictures
3. what difficulty are we on
great work so far:D

Kill those f****** barbs

edit: wait i have the save. i'll do my best

aims: retake sparta
build as many defensive units as possible
improve the land around athens
maybe get another settler

Yeah, I'm still ready to play. I wasn't expecting to lose any cities till my turn tho ;) .

Looking forward to it,

Greg

I've been chain playing raging barbs til about 100 ad to set up start and man... this is what I've found.

MEDIC!!!!!!!

Must get medic 2 warriors in ALL cities... I'm not joking. you guys know what happens by now right?


Build order is barracks first before all else... agressive nets them half cost.

City is generally size 4 by then, Then spam a few warriors and promote medic 1.

every warrior goes out and tries to get into a fight with an animal. one fight and they get medic 2, they then run back to town.

techs I must have short term are...

Archery - for bows

bronze working for axes and spears

The Wheel to link bronze and horse

horse riding for horse archers

Masonry for walls

Sailing for trade if cities are all costal.

NOT iron working to keep spiting out warriors to turn into super medics as I need them.

Got time to do all this and an early worker is worthless as any improvements will be pillaged. Any worker made is for exploiting horses or bronze/iron as they are the only land based resources worth the early guard. Fishys are immune to the first wave of brabs btw.

build order is barracks 4 or 5 warriors who promote medic 1 and go out and try and snag medic 2, settler to camp the bronze primarily and horses secondary so need to time bronze working to pop as settler pops.

camp the settler either on the bronze or next to it. Get a worker going if I need to work that bronze. new city makes a barracks first.

If bronze is in city or on a hill cover it with an archer with city garrison or hills to match. Asap drop a medic 1 phalinx on copper.

After copper is hooked up and each city has at least one medic 2 warriors then both make an archer to promote city garrison or hills to max their defence.. they will be 10 exp very soon lololol

not important to link the two cities as the first town can make the bronze units and Athens can make bows and settlers.

Balanced is nice for the bronze... Monty I think has the resource free jaguars so he might be an option as well.

No point doing improvements until you know where the barbs are coming from and shield Athens with a new town with premade archer + medic 2 warrior.

Anyway wild fun game. We are not here to steam roll the game, we here to get a bloody nose learning this.:crazyeye:

Cheers!
-Liq

"Doctor, our patient Percinho is suffering from severe combat stress!"
"Quick nurse, give him two pints of guinness, stat!"
"But doctor...."
"Move it nurse! Oh no, were losing him... Code Red, Code Red! 100 CC's of Tequilla, this is gonna be close..."

beep...beep...beep...
"There's no place like home...there's no place like home..."
"Doctor, we've got him back"

Morning all. Quick question, what time zones are we all in? Or are some of you just insomniacs? I'm in good 'ol Blighty, so I'm GMT itself. Remember, time is ours, and if you don't treat it carefully we'll take it back! ;)

pst here, I shun daylight. nothing about lack of sleep, as soon as the sun comes up I'm sleeping like a log.

and no, I've always been that pale... fun being of european decent.

Cheers!
-Liq'd

EST here (New England); that's six hours behind England, I believe.

This should prove an interesting game should we survive. :)

West coast.

Not an imsomniac, just scared of the dark. :twitch:
Heh heh.

*Edit: Was thinking about the situation. It ain't that bad (okay, it could be better, but they didn't take our capitol. That would be a step backwards). I like being an underdog, we seem to a motley crew of players, so it stands to reason that our SG is taking a more exciting route to ultimate glory.

If you want to see moves and strategy that actually make sense, go watch Sirian and Sulla play. If you want to see moves that make you scratch your head, or smile, this thread has it going on!

I've lost a settler so many times at the beginning, temporarily losing a city isn't the end of the world. (I don't lose settlers anymore, btw. I do learn, after a while) If anything, the culture from our capitol will flip Sparta back into our hands. If we want it sooner, we use a little bit of force. We are an aggressive civ, after all. Whatever happens in the next few turns should be exciting to watch though. Maybe our game has more in common with an average civ'er, but instead of restarting, we'll just keep going and win anyway.

I may be delusional, but I'm also optimistic. :crazyeye:

L_M, I have to agree with you. I fell into a lazy man's trap in Civ III of reloading when things went wrong. can't remember the last time I lost a city in civ III! :blush: For some strange reason, I've never felt the desire to do it in civiv, and I'm learning more because of it.

There's no better way to learn to play at a higher level than to have a last and lose the odd game, or at least finish middle of the pack! As Blackluck says, it has the makings of an interesting game, and it's still all to play for.

Next couple of turns could be veeeery interesting though. :)

In hindsight, I can see where the mistake was made, and by me:
Choosing mysticism early instead of bronze working.

The early tech choices might have been better had we gone for bw, archery, husbandry, wheel, horse back riding. This plays to our early strength.
Also, producing a worker much earlier (say after the first warrior) also may have proved a better choice.


But, it is what it is!
I'd like to get Sparta back before culture assimilation.
Also, there is no city razing so we can get it back while it's still size one.

In my Civing I've only rarely gone beyond the AI = human level. It makes for comfortable gaming, but ultimately a bit staid. :)

Don't blame yourself, Boss. :salute:
I'm not pointing any fingers here, but I think we all know who hasn't done very much in our path to glory. :rolleyes:
*cough* (Greggo) *cough*

Heh heh. :p

Waiting eagerly for the installment of the game...
Episode V, "The Lurkers strike Back".
*A scene from an upcoming post*
:borg:


Darth Muffin: "If you only knew the power of the Dark Side. Ghengis-Khan never told you what happened to your father."
Cyrus: He told me enough. He told me you killed him.
Darth Muffin: No. *I* am your father.
Cyrus: No. No. It's not true. That's impossible.
Darth Muffin: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
Cyrus: Nooooo. Nooooo.

I'm PST - West coast canada. I'm also confused... I thought I was still waiting for Sir Toma to go. As far as my numerous contributions to the ongoing discussion, I'm still kinda a newb, and was waiting to pick up on the knowledge of my superiours (?) before speaking up.

--Greggo

Yeah, we're all waiting for Sir Toma. *looks at clock*
However, he does have 48 hours.... the suspense is a killer though.
In the meantime, I'm just amusing myself.
Can't wait to see what kind of rabbits you two pull out of your hats.
Good luck. Just glad it's not me. ;)

EDIT: Oh, and I was just teasing you, greggo.
Of course you haven't done much yet, because you are still waiting for
your first turn! It was a joke, best I could do.
Don't judge me :(
This game is addictive.

Actually, I did a reversal here:
Usually it's 24 got it/48 played, but I did 48 got it/24 played.
AB=BA, I guess.

At any rate, I believe Sir Toma is an Aussie (crikes!), but it's been 24 hours since his 'got it.'

So, in the interest of a keeping the game moving, if Greggo has the time and inclination, go ahead and take it. Sir Toma, if you've played in the interim, I apologize.

Oh, and let's see:
I've never played a SG, but here I am trying to lead one.
Never played Prince OR raging barbs, and yeah.
:ack:

If Greggo can get it, then Sir Toma can then switch positions with him or wait until Dec 1 (if indeed that's what he wanted.)

yah not your fault black, the early religion thing is bad but you were not alone in pursuing it. Hindsight is 93%.

I love this sg for the learning experience. it's honestly not about winning easy, it's about getting smacked in the face and trying to turn it around. If there's no risk of losing well there's always sim city. :lol:

but yeah flaming barbs is wild. My bad for slipping it in!

hahaha

Cheers!
-Liq

Well, we both can share the raging barbs.
The initial posts attracted builder types (points to self) and I thought raging barbs would help hone the military skills for said builders :D

Worst case scenerio here is this turns into a 0CC or 3CC type of game.
I'm looking forward to adjusting strategies as the game presents itself, really.
So, it's all good. :)

So, in the interest of a keeping the game moving, if Greggo has the time and inclination, go ahead and take it. Sir Toma, if you've played in the interim, I apologize.


Hmm... tempting, but I am sleepy now and would probably break things.

I'll go tomorrow afternoon if Toma hasn't had a chance yet.

Cheers,

Greggo

Yeah, we're all waiting for Sir Toma. *looks at clock*
However, he does have 48 hours.... the suspense is a killer though.
In the meantime, I'm just amusing myself.
Can't wait to see what kind of rabbits you two pull out of your hats.
Good luck. Just glad it's not me. ;)

EDIT: Oh, and I was just teasing you, greggo.
Of course you haven't done much yet, because you are still waiting for
your first turn! It was a joke, best I could do.
Don't judge me :(
This game is addictive.

Sorry for keeping you guys waiting but time difference is a killer. Plus i had to go to my brothers carol function thing so it took me a little longer than usual

Anyway here's what happened

[1] 760BC: Nothing

[2] 740BC: Killed 2 barb archers easily. At the moment there are 2 barb warriors to the south, 2 archers to the east and one warrior to the North West

[3] 720BC: Worker was completed, started an archer, reconfigure Athens for hammer production to hopefully get us some archers to retake Sparta. I sent the worker to the wheat guarded by an archer to get us some more health in Athens

[4] 700BC: A couple of barbs attack but are easily fended off. More barbs are coming up from the south. Sparta is defended by two archers one with combat III. Start the worker building the farm.

[5] 680BC: Nothing interesting

[6] 660BC: Barb archer attacks Athens. No damage done. God that archer with the City Garrison III is a barb killing machine.

[7] 640BC: A couple more barbs attack and OMG our archer went down!!!...to 2.7 health. At the moment there are 2 more barbs to the SE and 2 to the NE

[8] 620BC: Animal Husbandry has finished and DANG! No horses in Athens. For what to research next it was hard to choose between Pottery for gold and Iron Working for iron. In the end I chose iron working as swords, spears and axes would make life a lot easier.

[9] 600BC: A few more attacks on Athens “YAWN”. Oh no there is a barb axe man to the north.

[10] 580BC: Archer is completed, give him City Garrison II promotion (he got some experience from barb attacks), queue up another archer

[11] 560BC: There is another axe man approaching from the north, an archer & warrior from the south and another warrior from the North East. All quiet on the Athens front.

[12] 540BC: The worker completes the wheat farm and move to a flood plain to farm it with his guardian archer. I am almost completely surrounded by barbs.

[13] 520BC: More barbs approach. Don’t they ever stop!

[14] 500BC: Our archer takes down an axe man and 3 other barbs without a scratch. More barbs, I just can’t take it.

[15] 480BC: There are now 3 archers in Sparta. Nothing else happened.

[16] 460BC: Once again Athens is surrounded, the super archer (combat III) moves out of Sparta.

[17] 440BC: 4 attacks occur, all victories. 2 more axmen appear. Not good. An archer is finished so I start another.

[18] 420BC: Judaism is founded in a distant land.

[19] 400BC: Nothing interesting

[20] 380BC: We now have 2 City Garrison III archers in Athens thanks to some great victories against the evil barbarian hordes.

As it stands there are 20 turns left in iron working, Athens is producing an archer, and our worker is building a farm (he has 2 turns left). I’d have loved to have taken back Sparta but I didn’t have enough troops to do so and I was flocked by barbarians left right and center. There are currently 2 axmen outside Athens.

I would suggest to the next player that they chop down a few forests to hurry some troops for us. I hope I haven’t screwed up terribly. If I have please tell me what I did wrong. Here's a picture of our (small) empire.

Sorry guys i just read your posts and i am an Aussie. I did play and would have got it back earlier if not for some terrible timing. Next time it'll be better.
The reason i said december 1 is because i ran out of bytes at home and had some trouble finding a way around it.

First, apologies Sir Toma for jumping the gun on you.
We've a wide range of time zones here (really?!) so patience is a virtue.

I guess raging is just that. Lord almighty.

Good job on getting the worker out; we're going to need to grow Athens here as it may end up being our only city!

Luck, greggo! Looking forward to the next installment.

Turn order:
Blackluck - On deck
Liquidated
Luv_Muffin
Scowler
Percinho
Sir Toma --
Greggo -- UP

[7] 640BC: A couple more barbs attack and OMG our archer went down!!!...to 2.7 health.

:lol: Okay, I admit it. I was a little tense reading your turn log.
You are so bad, toying with a muffin's emotions like that. :)

Nice turn! Too bad about the horses, but worth a shot. Perhaps if the barbs ever lift the seige of Athens, we will have some breathing space to look for them.
Good work, you were a wall! :goodjob:

Tough turn! Nice to have someone manage to get the worker out and working. A question for those who've raged with barbs before: Are they going to start pillaging? I'd hate to have to keep units on all our improvements just so that they don't disappear within 5 turns of being built!

And has anyone else found themselves hovering the mouse pointer over a tile and wondered why no information on it has appeared, only to realise it's because it's just a jpg, not the actual game?!? Or is that just me? :crazyeye:

yeah they love to pillage. needless to say, horses, sea based resources and bronze/iron are worthy of camping, sea based for lack of looting and horses and metal to help fight the brabs.

gotta keep pushing out cities to shield athens from the barb vectors, once you have a calm area you can sic workers on them.

Cheers!
-Liq

I took a look at the save last night: We are up against the wall.

Without horses, without copper, we can't do much but defend with archers and warriors. The barbs to the north won't clear until our neighbors expand there, while the lands to the south will soon be sprouting barbarian towns.

Thoughts on extracting ourselves here?

Choices as I see it:
1) Build culture aggressively. High culture also helps us defensively.
This may allow us to use our other trait to generate great people to further build more culture/money/techs.

However, promoted archers with defensive bonuses might be able to cover a worker for a while -- they can hold up against an attacking axeman or two, but they have no chance of going on the offensive and will wilt against repeated onslaughts. It will be difficult not only to improve our lands, but keeping them improved.

2) Try to get a second city placed.
The question is, where? Do we settle very close to Athens, i.e., within a couple tiles, or do we try to escort a settler down to the horses south of us?

There are gems NE. A city right on the cows, with a couple turns of cultural growth might claim that copper long before we can liberate Sparta. A city on one of the plain hills will start with some extra production as well as a defensive boost.

(By the way, do barb towns flip? I've never seen it happen, but I've always taken barbarian towns militarily.)

3). Wait for the other Civs to 'liberate' us from the onslaught of barbs, biding our time by building up our forces against the inevitable blaring horns as one or more of our aggressive neighbors decides to take Athens.

There is one possible way to deal with the barbs and buy ourselves some room and possibly time. Given that barbs only spawn from the darkness (no, not the band... ;) ) we could start moving a few units out of the city to bring a little light to the area, in particular the south. We could find some decent defensive positions and try to fight the barbs outside our territory. Once we build a second city we could then move our defensive line further out. I'm not near my game pc at the moment, so can't see on the map this will work in practicality, but it's something to ponder...

There is one possible way to deal with the barbs and buy ourselves some room and possibly time. Given that barbs only spawn from the darkness (no, not the band... ;) ) we could start moving a few units out of the city to bring a little light to the area, in particular the south. We could find some decent defensive positions and try to fight the barbs outside our territory. Once we build a second city we could then move our defensive line further out. I'm not near my game pc at the moment, so can't see on the map this will work in practicality, but it's something to ponder...

I disagree. If we can afford to send units on expeditions of this kind we can also afford to send them NW and park them in the woods outside Sparta. There are only 2 archers in Sparta at the moment, so my inclination is to send a mixed force of archers and warriors (with at least some having the "cover" promotion) and take back the city. Yes, we will lose units, but we should be able to pump out more faster than they can replace them, and our archers in Athens will hold out there while we are busy. Also use the worker to start building a road towards Sparta (under archer cover, of course).

The alternative - waiting for culture or our opponents to deal with them - is simply impractical (in my opinion). If we wait, all that will happen is that the barbarians will keep attacking with better and better units (axemen are already abroad), and we will not be able to keep up due to the lack of infrastructure and resources. We NEED Sparta back NOW, while it is relatively lightly defended. And I will repeat: it will be even worse for us if one of the AIs comes along and takes Sparta while we dither.

We could plant another city, but it would have to be fairly close, and I think that would hurt us in the long run. We need to take the initiative! :ar15:

Just my opinion, though. :)

I tend to agree.

No more Mr. Nice guy. Send in our stormtroopers, and smash this rebellion before any of the other civ's notice. Turn them to the dark side... or destroy them. It's the only way.

Execute order sixty-six.

I've never been faced with taking a barb city solely with archer/warriors. To that end, what ratio do we need? 2:1? 3:1? We'll also need enough archers left over for a counter attack, two at a minimum would be my guess. Finally, how many troops left in Athens assuming we don't have walls? Given the happy/unhappy status, I do not think we can whip walls there.

I thought about the idea of building a road to Sparta but without units to defend it the enemy barbs (i hate them so much:mad: ) would just pillage it before we could use it.

I think our best option would be to re-take sparta and use the copper to produce axmen which would give us a chance to settle another city and defend our borders well.

OK, so we're decided, it's time to show a little backbone and take the fight to the barbs! Good show all!

One thing we do need to know before the main assault is how many archers there are in the Sparta. Can they build more in a city that they take over? My instinct would say they can, but I've never faced the scenario on civiv. Assuming they can, is it worth sending a lone warrior up there to have a look? If we take enough units to deal with one archer and suddenly find there's three of them in the city then we're back to square one.

I think Greggo will have to play this one by ear.
Barb cities do produce troops, but there was a decent plan mentioned that deals with that.
In my experience, attacking a barb city is done successfully in two stages.
1. approach. Bring your troops, park on a defensible square (hill, woods etc..). Not across a river, because that works against you in stage two.
- they will attack you, but the odds are in your favor! They'll usually attack you with one unit (from a stack of three), and on defense we should win easy. This will reduce their odds to succesfully defend their city.
2. attack. throw everything you have at them. No reason to ever hold anything back on the attack. I like overwhelming odds, but you can't have everything. They shouldn't have a culture bonus, so it might be possible to take them out. Maybe.

We'll likely have to keep our super defender archers watching Athens, but if we empty the city of everyone else (inluding the worker/archer stack, just to have an extra bow in case we need him) we should be able to take sparta, and have a worker on hand to immediately get that copper connected.

Then again, maybe Greggo will think of something else to do, or maybe on his turn, barb horse archers show up or something...

Just be ready Blackluck, if Greggo chooses not to risk an all out assault, we will all be waiting for our fearless leader to do it. Or Liq... :D

In summary, there's good news and bad news:


GOOD NEWS: We've discovered ironworking. BAD NEWS: No iron near our city.

GOOD NEWS: We haven't lost Athens. BAD NEWS: We haven't retaken Sparta.

GOOD NEWS: We have an army to retake Sparta BAD NEWS: It may not be enough.

[0] - 380 BC. Athens is at max health and happiness, so I MM and get 3 shields in place of a 1health/2shield. Sparta currently has 2 archer defenders (we can see it from our culture, so don't need to scout.) I'm all for an attack, but we're gonna need a few more units, as the odds are nearly 2-1 for them, even with our best units (I'd say we need minimum 6 attackers for their 2 units + defense afterwards.) If we have iron near us it'll help, but waiting 20ish turns to get it doesn't seem very helpful at all. Since we don't need more food I stop our worker's farm - he'll build a road towards sparta
(under cover). So we can get units there and back for defense faster.

IBT While defending, your archer has killed an axeman
While defending, your archer has killed an axeman
Blah blah, blah blah blah blah a warrior

[1] 360 BC. Promote our archer in the field with cover. Move worker a square up and build a road. Move one archer into the forest to gain a promation against the barb, and the newly promoted one to defend the worker.

[2] 340 BC. Promote the new archer with Drill, and start on a warrior to get another free medic promotion.

[3] 320 BC. Archer in the woods wins. Nothing else to report.

[4] 300 BC. We fought the war and we won! But more war coming our way.

[5] 280 BC. Archer attacks our city and gets killed like the barbarian scum it is. A barb warrior moves around to our farm. Use our archers in the forest to attack and, naturally, win. Warrior is produced and given medic promotion, work started on another archer. We meet Victoria (it may have been last turn) who's the founder of Judaism.

[6] 260 BC. Worker starts on a road towards sparta with 2 archers +medic 1 warrior escort.

Our fighting forces so far (leaving 2 archers + medic warrior to defend):

2 archers, 1 medic warrior, and 2 other warriors.
I don't think it's enough by a long shot.

[7] 240 BC. THE ENEMY HAS BEEN SPOTTED NEAR ATHENS.



WHAT?!?!? WHERE?!? We aren't prepared. :crazyeye:


[8] 220 BC. While defending,blah blah blah :hammer:
While defending, blah blah blah :hammer:

[9] 200 BC. Archer produces, start work on another one.

[10] 180 BC. We lose a City defense archer to 3 axemen attacks - I thought the comp was supposed to pick our uninjured one to fight in times like these. I guess we'll rebuild him soon enough, but this hampers the war effort.

[11] 160 BC. Archer defending worker gets a promotion.

[12] 140 BC. The barbs seem to be slowing down. Only 2 in sight.

[13] 120 BC. Archer gets produced and new one started. road towards sparta is complete.

[14] 100 BC. Athens' border expands, meaning the forest tile directly east of sparta is now under our control. Worker starts building a road directly into sparta, with defense. New archer moved into woods in hope of getting promotion against incoming barb.

[15] 80 BC. Promotion gathered as expected - given CoverI and moved towards sparta.

[16] 60 BC. Another archer with combat one moved into woods. A barb warrior is coming from the southwest, so I move our medic one warrior towards the hill in that direction. Hopefully he'll be able to win and get medic 2.

[17] 40 BC. Mao meets us. He's buddhist, but not the founder. Another archer given coverI and moved towards sparta. Medic warrior reaches hill.

[18] 20 BC. Warrior wins (barely) and moves back towards Athens - the long way round, to avoid the approaching axeman.

Another archer produced and moved north against incoming barb warrior - with 3 cover archers, and the 2 archers there, maybe sparta will be takeable? Worker sent towards pigs cause (a) it's safe. and (b) we do need health (as well as happiness) eventually.

[19] 1AD. We discover ironworking!!! but the only source is south, near the horses. I put the research to priesthood, so we can a temple for happiness, but the next person can change that. I'll call it quits here to even out the turns. NOTE: Our worker needs direction, and we have an archer just northeast of athens who'll have a promotion next turn. I was planning on giving him cover and moving to the city, but I'll let greater minds work on that descision as well.

Some pics, for your enjoyment:

The location of Iron:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6854/ironloc8wg.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironloc8wg.jpg)

The situation at Sparta:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3725/sparta2ae.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sparta2ae.jpg)
There's also an archer with coverI coming towards the stack - will be there next turn IIRC.

Turn order:
Blackluck - UP
Liquidated - On deck
Luv_Muffin
Scowler
Percinho
Sir Toma
Greggo -- Surprisingly, didn't lose the game.

Good luck with that whole Sparta thing, Blackluck.

EDIT: Some quick thoughts. In retrospect, maybe an initial attack against Sparta (with 4 warriors/2 archers) may have won it rite away, but I'm a bit (over) timid in times like these. Also, I wonder if a settler, with 2-3 defenders may have been able to make a city near the horse (and keep it). Anyway, looking forward to comments on my game.

And the file:

:goodjob:

Excellent management against the hordes. :hammer:
I agree with not going after Sparta just yet; we not only need to retake it, we need to hold it.

Good choices for promotions, too.
Also agree on Priesthood; happiness will let Athens grow a bit more, letting us get back on our feet (hopefully.)

The horse/iron town is going to turn into a priority spot ... but that's for the future.

My priority:
Retake Sparta, hold it, then hook up the copper.

Uhm, I would get it but the save's not there.
I won't be able to post my turn until tomorrow evening.
Let's hope I don't live up to my moniker. :lol:

edit, but spoke too soon.
Got it.

Okay, who wants to be the first to string me up?

No, I haven't played any turns yet, I was just taking stock of the situation.

I hovered my mouse over the list of AI opponents and .... 'cannot declare war!!!'.

Uhm, say what?

I look at the settings:

Permanent war or peace.

:aargh:

The check was supposed to be 'permanent alliances.' :blush: :blush:

Aside from taming the barbs, the game is moot now, unless anyone knows how to edit a saved game file to turn that flag off.

Man, talk about humilation. Very sorry, everyone.
I'll await the verdict from the team before we decide how to proceed.

Posted a question about this on the general forum.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3393865#post3393865

Maybe someone has an idea? Worth a shot at least.

If you want to know who will be the first to string me up you have an answer ...me!!!

Just kidding, I think we should just continue playing, consider this an extra challenge? I've fought to many barbs to see all my work flushed down the toilet by a misplaced cross. I say if we can't fix it we continue. We must destroy the barbs. CHARGE:spear:

:ar15: :ar15: :ar15: :ar15: :ar15:

sorry work has sucked.... which settign was accidentally chosen?


if it's too horrible we can just reroll and can the furious barbies. :lol:

I've been playing endless barb games and wow what a freaking blast but not sure it's a great idea for a first generation civ4 prince SG.

I mean I win from domination every game I play barbs because well I have a huge army of 10 exp troops to roll people over very quickly.

Cultural victory alone requires severe sacrifices as is, let alone adding flaming barbies into the mix. Just too much military MUST be built to survive.

Again Liq's bad on barbs :worship: please be kind in retribution :lol:

I'm all for a restart, Sans barbs of the Rampaging variety so we can play a cultural game..

My first SG I'll start myself later on WILL be flaming barbies tho I can tell you now, it's just so much fun to get beat down like a floozy. Forsces me to be untimid like no other combo can.

Not a defeatist btw :) I just rather SG a realistic goal first, then add the insanity for when we are all good and jaded :crazyeye:

Anyway, your thoughts?

no hate here from liq, black. :)

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquid, "work" and "suck" are redundant. :)

Raging barbs isn't the problem (actually turns out to be pretty cool. Kinda fun, really.)

When I initially set the game up, I wanted to check 'permanent alliances.'
Instead I checked "always war or peace." Which means we have an always peace game right now. If you load up the game, hover your mouse over the opponents name; you'll see that it says "cannot declare war!!"

That's the problem. So we all need to decide if we want to continue with an always peace game (which was not the intent at all for this SG.) It's a major screw up on my part.

It doesn't look like victory conditions/game options are changeable once the game is started. At least that's what I've been told. Tried to change it on an old game save, and tried to attack the persian scout, but there wasn't even an "does this mean war?" pop-up.

My vote would be for a restart. I know, it kind of bites, but you caught it early enough that we all only lose one turn. It could have been much worse if we didn't figure this out until much later. Good spotting btw.

That's my two cents worth.
If on the next game you select "always at war", I'm going to throw my mouse at you! :lol:

okay i'll agree to a restart but maybe we could bring the difficulty down to noble . Raging barbs is all well and good but with prince as well when some of us havenever played on prince or with raging barbs? Anyway its your descision.

edit: is it possible to play in to SG's at the one time or does it make life hell

I'm in 3 so far and np


dunno tho I process this game super fast in that I'm a min maxer by my very nature and I'm very fluent in infrasructure systems.

I vote restart no barbs prince culture win, rethink our leaders...

barbs so much fun but I'll use that option for a different SG, I've tried a few culture wins and man it's a slim fit to beat off the bad peeps at end.

Cheers!
-Liq

My vote'd go with restart, normal barbs, prince level.
My second option would be raging barbs, noble level.

No worries on the tickbox black, when I played my first noble game I was about two hours in and wondering why I was doing so well when I realised that I'd left it on Warlord level! :hammer: I've leart enough about raging barbs to have made this game worth playing anyhow!

Having said I've learnt a bit about ragin barbs, I decided to try and justify it to myself with a few thoughts:

1. Raging barbs are just that. Once they start coming, they don't stop. I know this is implied in the name of the setting, but I really didn't expect it to be that relentless!

2. Defense is not enough on its own. I think some sort of barbarian spawning ground limitation strategy would be useful. I still think there's a case for taking units outside of the city squares to bring more light to the area. You have a handful of turns before the barbs start to attack, and if you can find a peninsula (such as the one to our south) there's a case for dropping a number of scouts to illuminate the terrain, thus allowing you the chance to settle in there in relative safety. You then *just* need to man a northern border and you have the chance to build your civ down south. Granted, that is based on the wonder of hindsight, but it's a strategy I will try out at some point. In fact, I may restart this game at some point and try the principle out to establish its validity.

3. Early research should be directed more towards military areas than tile improvement. This is fairly self-explanatory. The only thing to be resolved here is whether to chance for an early religion. I'm still undecided on this one.

4. When uder light attack, it is worth removing your best defender from the city to give promotions to others. Obviously, when they com at you with 4 units at once, this isn't the best idea! Given that units can only grab up to 10 points from barbs though, it seems a waste to keep them defending if you have another capable unit.

Well, there's my thoughts. Nothing too radical in there, but I've not had much experience on raging barbs, so let me know what you think.

Thanks everyone for being so understanding. What a way to kick of a first ever SG. :wallbash:

If I select Always war on this one, I deserve more than a mouse thrown at me.

I vote restart too. While I'm quite the peacemonger in my games, it takes away all the drama with always peace selected.

Raging barbs has been educational: I agree with Percinho's analysis. Even on normal I've had swarms of them until I lit up a good chunck of land with warriors/archers. I'll take a look out for Liq's SG when he starts up a raging barb SG.

Okay, to the restart:
Prince level, normal barbs, trying for a culture win.
My thoughts on leaders:
Cathy -- Financial, creative
Mana -- Spiritual, financial (although he doesn't start w/ mysticism)
Saladin -- Philosphical, spiritial
(maybe Elizabeth -- Philosophical, financial)
Open to suggestions as well!

I think early religions and shrines are more important than Wonders in amassing culture (although Wonders certainly help!)
Financial helps us keep up in Science. Creative for the early land grab phrase. Philosophical for the Great people Generations. Spiritual for fast temple building, and no anarchy.
Thoughts?

Given the choices, my vote:

Mana (Camel Archers 10/2 vs: horse archers 6/2, knight 10/2)-only need guilds, horseback riding & archery!
Replaced by calvalry.
Spiritual (no anarchy) and Financial sounds good. (so we miss budha, we'll grab the rest)

As usual, I am down with whatever the team decides.
Saladin sounds decent too. Heck, I'll play any one of them.
Let's get this started soon.

Mana or saladin sounds good to me as well.

Raging barbs was definitely... eductational :P

--Greggo

Busy day at work, sorry for not responding sooner.
I'll start us off later on tonight.
Probably will start as Mansa.
Be back soon!

Liq is out of it... to reiterate flaming barbies is not only educational for the peace minded of us, it's effing fun!!!!!

those barbs come at you with an intensity that no pc controlled civ could ever muster. totally insane in a fantastically fun way....

that said, lets drop that option for this SG ROFL. it will return I promise and I'll head up that bit of moronics thinking prince or monarch win anyway with agressive civs always war and raging barbs in due time!:crazyeye:

as for a clean start, I really love cathy more and more. Financial and creative are very well matched and her UU's the cossak comes at just the correct time to fend off the horde of jealous civs with tanks.

But I'm easy. just no organized at prince and no m0 raging barbs!!! hahahahaha.

Man the more I play this game the more I love it, SG's just take it up a notch or 5.

Anyway lets restart it and no hard feelings any which way it drops about. This is about fun, not bragging rights.

Cheers!
-Liq

Lurker the II is born.
Immediately he checks the game settings:


Whew, no mistakes.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/fbitt/vc1.jpg

4000 BC
Here is our start:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/fbitt/start1.jpg

We have a frest water start, but not immediately on a river.
But, this looks good, next to the coast with the lake providing fresh water and livestock in radius.
Decide to begin here.

Warrior moves to the hut and earns 52 gold!
Already richer than his ill fated predecessor.
We have lots of coast line and beavers close by.
Timbuktu orders a warrior.

Turn 2: 3960
Which tech to research?
Already faced with a tough choice.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/fbitt/tc2.jpg

However, I pick fishing. This allows us to work the lake square for
extra commerce, hopefully leading to faster tech discoveries.

Turn 3:3920 Explore

Turn 4: 3880 Explore

Turn 5: 3840 Explore

Turn 6: 3800 A hut.
The villagers give us a map:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/fbitt/map1.jpg

The intrepid band spies another tribal village hut way in the distance, decides to head that direction.

Turn 7: 3760 Explore

Turn 8: 3720 Explore

Turn 9: 3680 Explore

Turn 10: 3640 Explore

Turn 11: 3600: Warrior defeats lion; heals (for decades!)

Turn 12: 3560

Fishing comes in.
Choose Mysticism for Hindu gambit.
With fishing, change Timbuktu from working forest to the lake.
Time to discover Mysticism goes from 13 --->10
Hunting and archery would be more useful, but I roll the dice.

Turn 13: 3520
Timbuktu produces a warrior, trains another.

Warrior heads north to clear the fog, leaving Timbuktu unguarded.
Should be okay for a bit!

Turn 14: 3480 Meet Saladin
Declare war!
Just kidding.

Turn 15-21
(oops extra turn in there somehow; trying to do chores and play Civ, bad idea.)

Warrior desperately racing for the hut against Saladin's band of warriors defeats a bear!

I didn't promote/heal him, as I leave that in Liq's capable hands.

The world as we know it:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/fbitt/wv1.jpg

Didn't do a good job with the pics. Long work day.

Turn order:20 turns each, then ten when we get back to the top:
Blackluck -
Liquidated - Up
Luv_Muffin- On deck
Scowler
Percinho
Sir Toma
Greggo

The save:
105941

Cross post with Liq.
Love the avatar :)

Cathy is a great choice; love those Cossacks!

But, I chose Mansa :mischief:

Tired tonight, hopefully did ok on the beginning :)

Oooops, my bad.

Mali has Skirmishers, Saladin has them camel archers.

No, I wasn't wrong. I was just a little shy of being correct, is all.
I'm sure if we had camels, our skirmishers would like to ride them, except we don't, so don't count on them.
Okay? Let's just put this all behind us, and not ever mention it in public.

I see you, you want to push that quote button don't you?
Put your mouse down, there's nothing to see here folks. :crazyeye:

Nice opening, Blackluck. Lots of coastline. We can be fairly sure we won't be attacked by barbs from the south at least!
Heh heh.
Look forward to seeing what the rest of the world looks like.
Go get 'em liq!

huh what? guild finally killed hatcher the um tortuer so Liq is free for the night.

21 turns huh? hehe we'll see.. gonna test the waters for hindu as one of our guests is a spiritualist.

got it, playing it next post will be the turns..........

btw dunno about you but every time I look at my avitar I think.

'mmmmm delish'

Such an enchanting shade of green :crazyeye:

And no this is not the first board to be graced by it.

Cheers!
-Liq

ps sooo nice to beable to start up civ4 and not cast a paranoid glance at the process list expecting a crash incoming.

[1]3320 AD officially decided to say "screw that!" to using (x) for my turn counter... the shift keys are mass annoying!

goodie hut a gogo.. wuwu. I pet julia, the cat that lives on top of my monitor, a good luck tickle....

uh 52 gold isn't bad... next time I get julia to drooling first!

switch the population to farm the coast for the extra 3 coins.


[2]3280 BC nother goodies hut!!!! ok drool accopmplished and........ hostile villagers! WTF. one barb


[3]3240 BC wounded barb dies. grrr... we have that evil jap guy's scout say hi from the west.


[4]3200 BC Mysticism comes in make sure bud hasn;t been founded yet and away we go! for polyana in 15.


[5]3160 BC no news but computer moved to work a 1 commerce town.... so poly down to 12.


[6]3120 BC warrior isn;t seeing much interesting to the north.


[7]3080 BC bud is founded... 10 turns on poly... go go gadget!! see barbs to the north...


[8]3040 BC land warrior on a hill nest to a wolf... seems another goodie hut barb was victorious it's 1.6 of 2 hmm.


[9]3000 BC meet Cyrus from the persans in the north, panthers attack warrior of course not the scout next to them... lets see if the barbs take him out. warrior lives but is 1.1 move him north to a jungled hill to rest.


[10]2960 BC nothign to do, 7 turns on polyana.


[11]2920 BC 6 turns to polyananana.


[12]2880 BC WTF those barbs came to attack our warrior... well he won and is back to 1.1 but can promote so grab woods one. is 1.6 now so rest.


[13]2840 BC napoleon says hi from the east as well... lotta friends!!!!


[14]2800 BC train next warrior... he's gonna peal back a bit of the fog to the east. start a worker in um 45 lol.


[15]2760 BC warrior to north all healed yay!


[16]2720 BC No News is GOOD News!


[17]2680 BC ***SCORE***

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/Score.jpg

deja vu! fooled you! that's from sg one, our "you founded hinduism" screen in SG2 has the date 2680BC not 2480BC

same result. we got the cool blue swirl... my personal favorite. I do not adopt hindu for now...

so off with the balls to the wall research pace.. work the beaver square since it's 3 units towards the worker and a coin. hmm that could be construed in a naughty way....

go for hunting since both our specials need it. worker in 21 turns. timbuk is up to 7 culture a turn...

warrior north ends turn on a hill overlooking a lion.... man he's a magnet for these things.


[18]2640 BC warrior wins!!!! resting again =/


[19]2600 BC turning city warriors around back to town.


[20]2560 BC quiet days

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/Thebearsatemyhomework.jpg

ok scored hindu started on a worker and hunting so he has crap to do, 2 of 3 warriors remain and we have 104 in the bank. our start area is very low on resources. imo the techs we want are animal husbandry and archers. I sacrificed growth to secure hindu btw so keep that in mind.

our neck of the woods is crowded so maybe napoleon and jap guy can beat eachother silly. good news is no aztecs or incas and no effing religious nuts like izzy so far.

btw Black/Liq are 2 for 2 on founding hindu without spiritualism.... :rockon:

Cheers!
-Liq

uh liq forgot the save..:mischief:

go liq go, see liq run, run liq run.

Turn order:20 turns each, then ten when we get back to the top:
Blackluck -
Liquidated - looking for the booze
Luv_Muffin- up
Scowler - playing shuffleboard on deck
Percinho
Sir Toma
Greggo


no one bowed out of this sg right??? kinda hard to keep track of em all ehhe. after that start, we got ourselves a pack of lunitics for sticking to it.:D

Cheers!
-Liq'd

edit: is it possible to play in to SG's at the one time or does it make life hell

Why the hell doesn't anyone answer my questions:mad: :cry: :cry:

ps. i can't believe i quoted my own post

pps. great work so far, i suggest we take some of the land to the north

ppps. i haven't bailed out

pppps. thats all:D

:goodjob:
Hindu yet again.
And again with the aggressive neighbors.
Hopefully we can cultivate Saladin and the Persians as uhm friends, to keep Tokuwaga and Napelon occupied :lol:

Skirmishers are decent early units. Helps a lot with keeping barbs in check. ;)

No marble, no stone. Bummer.
We can still probably get either the Oracle or Stonehedge.
Oracle is useful for a theology sling shot. It'd be hard to get both, unless we chop like mad. If we settle the coastal areas aggressively and manage to spread our religions, we're going to be awash in cash :drool:

A lot of redundant resources. Good for trading. One thing I'm weak on is the diplomatic front, as I tend to trade indiscriminately, ending up with a lot of annoyed neighbors heh.

And again thanks to all for sticking through the Lurker 1 disaster. :worship:

Why the hell doesn't anyone answer my questions:mad: :cry: :cry:

ps. i can't believe i quoted my own post

pps. great work so far, i suggest we take some of the land to the north

ppps. i haven't bailed out

pppps. thats all:D

Oops! Apologies.
Depends on your available time
I have time for two or three SG's.
I work but no kids and a gaming wife who doesn't mind how much I play Civ :p

For wonders i'd say go for the oracle instead of stonehendge and don't even bother with the pyramids as i always get beaten to them even of noble with an industrious civ, stone and three mined plains hills.